Homemade Electric Buggy Ep 12: NEW TRACK! New Problems...
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2023
- Homemade Electric Buggy Ep 12: NEW TRACK! New Problems...
Hey folks. In this video I'm going to take you for another ride in my homemade electric buggy and talk about some of the issues that I've been having with it which have kept me from publishing the plans, and what I'm doing to resolve them.
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Хобби
Can't wait for your motorbike update, been looking up to it for a loooong time.
Data is sooooo essential in projects like these. You could easily get realtime telemetry using nothing but open source hardware and software!
VESC!!!
You literally giving Tesla I'll run for their money. 2 years later, this thing is still rolling like that and and only a couple of little issues. Still the coolest build I've seen.
Superb! Loved the bits where you show the buggy coming around the corner.
I'm so HYPED for the plans! I would absolutely love to see them, even if there are a couple of small flaws.
mannnnnn such a great info for us - DIY-ers. Thank you so much for your videos and good luck with your built
Thanks, glad you find it helpful!
I cant wait for the plans! I was planning on using an Orion BMS and Sevcon Gen4 Controller.
Great to see your update on the buggy!
I am still building mine using the same motor and controller as yours. I am using liquid cooling for the controller so hopefully no issues of cutting power off after full throttle.
That thing looks like so much fun!
Perfect video.
Another great video.
Great!
Would make an awesome RC car track as well
Nice buggy! Would be wild with a 600cc Honda CBR engine! 😄😎🔥
Do you have a clamp-meter (for the peak of amps) ?
your theory about gearing vs heating vs top speed is correct. whole thing will be more efficient with the motor at higher rpm as well. batteries may run cooler too. consider also where you could save weight. chance are a lot of stuff is very overbuilt.
Actually, if anything, it's a bit underbuilt. An exhausting amount of time has been spent meticulously designing the kart to be as light as possible, hence why I opted for smaller/thinner tubing and more braces instead of the larger 2" tubing that most builders use. The extra cutting and welding is more work, but saves loads in weight without compromising strength (same reason why trellis motorcycle frames are lighter than their bulkier cast delta box counterparts). A typical crosskart with just a 500cc engine weighs in at around 900-950lb. This buggy hauls an extra 300lbs of LFP but only weighs 1027lb. The only way I can shed more weight is by swapping the LFP's for the same cap in NCM which would cut slightly more than 100lbs, or by swapping the aluminum body panels for abs. The panels make up less than a 4x8 sheet, and while abs is half the weight of aluminum, it would only cut around 20 lbs off the weight. It's something, but nothing to shake a stick at. Bottom line, with it only being ~50-100 lb heavier than normal, that's pretty good for what it's hauling. Just need more torque for more fun, and when the budget allows, more voltage and hp to get the top speed back that I'm going to lose from changing the gearing.
Couple things- first, you could look into NMC pouch cells for the battery. Very easy to build a pack and not terribly unaffordable. I realize this may be too late because you've already built your pack, but pouch cells are the way to go. Second, I'm not sure if Kelly controllers are VESC or not, but a VESC controller will be your best option. 3Shul makes incredible high-powered controllers that will more than suit your needs such as the CL700.
Nothing wrong with the battery. It can handle far more power than what I'm using. NCM would be ideal in terms of weight and space, if I weren't trapped inside a tight cabin with them. Most of my time driving the kart is spent alone. If I wreck and get knocked out, I wanted less risk of burning alive. NCM makes me too nervous. LFP offered the safety factor that I wanted. This kart's only 50-100lbs heavier than the pro karts despite lugging a 300 lb battery thanks to the chassis design. The issue is the controller. Unfortunately, the CL700 is only 100A more. That's only an extra 16 ft lbs. I can get 10X more torque with a $30 sprocket. As I mentioned, Kelly now makes much more powerful sine wave controllers for the ME1616 pushing 1200 phase amps at a more affordable price than an equivalently sized VESC like a CL1000(+) - nearly half the price. VESC's are really nice, but they just don't offer the same torque/A constant that Kelly's do. I'd use them in a more sophisticated build like a small car, but this is a budget buggy, so optimizing torque and speed/$ spent is my main priority.
@@JamesBiggar I see where you're coming from. I think NCM packs get a bit more notoriety than is warranted, but there definitely is a danger there. As far as controllers, I've heard rumors of a few VESC coming out soon that will be marketed toward motorcycle/car builds IE 1000+ Amps, but they will also be more expensive. Kelly is good bang for the buck for sure. I just like VESC more.
@@JamesBiggarIsn't the ME1616 rated for 120V and 600A max.
@@JamesBiggar Taking into account the criteria of torque and speed, how much budget do I need to build one that can exceed 75mph?
Next chapter: 4 rotating props. Up she goes!
Cool car.
Looks fun!! Need some now speed tho. I understand fully everything you said but you know what Tim the Toolman Taylor would say.
Argh argh argh!
Very impressive build. My experience with Kelly controllers is the same In my opinion they are made for golf carts not high-performance carts like this. I would ditch it and get another controller.
Thanks! But there's literally nothing else even close to the power that I need. Kelly was and remains the most powerful for the price. That's the problem with every other controller, which would only make this problem even worse. Gotta have wiggle room. Pushing and exceeding the limits will always make relays trip as they should. Kelly esc's actually perform really well in high performance machines if the user matches with an appropriate motor and tunes them properly. Can't just plug and play in a custom machine. The MAP setting in particular makes all the difference between a high performance kart and a golf kart. I've never had a problem with Kelly's in other builds because they were always rated higher than the motor so I could get the power that I expected, utilize the current limit settings to protect the motor from damage, and had some wiggle room to limit heat buildup in the esc.
@@JamesBiggar Have you considered getting a Sevcon?
I love your project! Looking forward to the next episode! Thanks for sharing it
Thanks for watching!
Its seems like you have alot of voltage sag when accelerating. Bout 5-7v is fine, but I saw up to 11 volts in your video. Either your batteries are not up to the task, or you have to go through all your connection and upgrade or delete some of the connectors.
It's possible that voltage sag could be an issue and the bms just isn't displaying the error like it should and somehow doesn't require rebooting to reset the relay as it does with every other protection feature. I have the individual cell volt cut-off set to 2.75V per cell in the bms, but again, there's no indication from the bms that it's cutting power for any reason, and every instance power is cut it can be traced back to overcurrent issues with the controller which is designed to cut power momentarily and restore without rebooting, hence why it was remedied for the most part working with Kelly with 0 changes made to the bms or battery.
If your concern is just about voltage sag, then it should be noted that the amount of sag depends on the sum voltage and current as well as bad connections or improperly sized conductors, but if the latter two check out then whether or not the voltage sag is technically 'bad' depends on the cell design and chemistry. They're not all created equal, and the 'general' rule of limiting voltage drop to
I need to build a 36 volt battery to replace six 6 volt Trojan lead acid batteries in my ego golf cart. Would love to hear any suggestions or input you may have or a design idea. Great job and great videos ! Thanks, - M
Thanks. Check out my latest battery build video for an ongoing e-moto project. I modified some 36V M50LT modules from Battery Hookup that you might be interested in ruclips.net/video/1KXRtSAv37A/видео.html
🍓🍒С ветерком и по кочкам))
I'm pretty sure if you bump your voltage 20% your amps will fall off and you won't overload your BMS I have an old Schwinn electric bike that Canadian tire used to sell a long time ago that has the motor dangling off the rear axle it is 24 volts but I run it around 36 and it's very happy I use two Ryobi 9 amp hour batteries in series
The bms isn't the problem, it's the esc that's underpowered and keeps shutting down. The bms can handle a lot more power. Increasing voltage is definitely an option, but with no space left for more LFP's, that would mean replacing the entire bank with NCM for higher density and more space to add more series connections. I'm pretty sure that increasing the gear ratio will lower the current demand too. It's a relatively cheaper fix if it doesn't slow down top speed on the track too much. I'm sure some folks are thinking it should be capable of 100+ miles an hour, and if it were a highway vehicle or a pro race machine competing on a rally course then I would agree. But highway speed just wouldn't be possible here. 60-70km/hr will likely be the fastest I'll be able to drive on this track without skidding into the trees, and that works for me. As long as I can make it fun. No sense wasting power on speed instead of torque if the speed will never be used. I'd rather save the voltage upgrade for when I can budget adding another motor and esc into the mix to double the hp. For now, my concern is getting the current components to work together as optimally as possible.
@@JamesBiggar it's hard to balance everything out grasshopper you will learn how to snatch the pebble from the Master's hand(kung fu) 😁
🍓🍒Самый толковый багги на Ютубе 👍👍
How much did it cost
Maybe an arduino or a raspberry combined with a hall sensor for measuring the current ? That would give a lot of options I'd guess.. a WCS1600 can measure up to 100A for example but I would guess there are ones that go much higher.
Yes, or a shunt.. I guess there is either a shunt or a hall sensor already present.. it was just an example although I guess a hall sensor is easier to implement... ;) Don't know why you deleted the message frank ^^ ;P
The emphasis is on the raspberry.. it can store measurements and you have a whole arsenal of software to draw graphs and analyse data.. like grafana and such..
Could be held for review if he used naughty words. I'll check.
Nothing held for review. Maybe he just changed his mind :)
I would go with a VESC controller by Benjamin Vedder or look at electro and co noisy cricket they also have a new one coming soon that would take care of voltage you want and torque you need less speed more torque i would over gear the shit out of it and not think about speed torque is so much more fun than speed.
your stalling is actually the motor not the controller lol theres a peak stall torque value of 134 Nm. I would try lowering it to 92V and see if the stalling out still persists, could be a simple tune on the controller to lower the torque abit at the current voltage.
The motor could be stalling, yes. Stalling increases the current demand dramatically. This can create an overcurrent issue in the esc and cause it to shut down. Voltage is proportional to speed, current is proportional to torque. The only options to remedy are to tune the torque/current settings lower in the esc and live with lower torque, or increase the voltage and gear ratio to increase motor rpm while increasing torque mechanically at the expense of wheel speed, which would lower torque load and current demand on the motor and esc. As I mentioned in the video. Lowering the voltage from 102-92V would lower the motor rpm and increase the current demand and torque load for the same power output - this would only make it stall sooner...would it not?
@@JamesBiggar you are correct, Can't wait to see what this thing can do once you get the gearing and tune dialed in. I was confusing myself with the current/voltage effecting the torque, been a long day.
Love your series on the build.
🍓🍒Если на крышу поставить маленький ветряк
То можно используя силу ветра сделать самозапит.
Чтобы ездить сколько угодно, без подзарядки с сети
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how that would work
price of this machine
Ballpark How much would I be looking at for a comparable electrical setup?
~$8k. That also includes 8-10 years of paying roughly 3X less for fuel (ev's are over 2X more eff than ice, grid power is also still significantly cheaper/kWh than petrol - cba in the description of original build video). You'd pay for your battery multiple times in fuel cost savings before it actually needs to be replaced, provided you don't do something stupid to it and ruin it.
@@JamesBiggarinteresting. How much does this thing weigh?
Imagine a grizzly chasing after you while driving one.
Entirely unrelated to the project: your local transit authority needs to fix your road. Holy crap!
Lol, don't get me started on that. Speed limit's 80. Ambulance drove by last year for the neighbour and could barely get above 50 without being tossed all over the road. The video doesn't do it justice. It's an absolute mess. What you're seeing is the good section. It's a literal safety hazard. Craters the size of the hood on my truck, 2 ft deep, no markers or warnings, culverts washed out, you name it. One of the neighbour's daughters was visiting a couple of years ago, not familiar with the area, tried the posted speed limit, hit a crater and flipped her car into the ditch. DTI was quick to run out the next morning to mark it. I've taken complaints all the way up the ladder, passed on from one evasive bureaucrat to the next until they got sick of me and gave me the direct email for the district engineer who basically told me to eff off, he can only work with the budget he's given by the donkeys who wouldn't talk to me. No $ for it, apparently. They were supposed to do it 10 years ago. Road crew stopped in to see if I had a place on the back 40 to dump ditching. Halfway through the local MLA stepped in to stop it and redirect funds to fixing roads in his neck of the woods. It's never been done properly. That's just reclaim asphalt on it now. Been there for 30 years. Mud and gravel before that, just dumped the reclaim on top of it. They send a half dozen guys, a loader, trucks and a compactor down it once every spring to cold patch. I don't understand why since they only do about 1/8th of the holes knowing damn well they're just wasting their time because the road has literally crumbled to nothing so there's nothing to hold the patches to the ground and they'll just peel it up with the plows again in the winter if regular traffic doesn't take care of them first. Probably spend a few grand on it every year. Logic ftw.
Try using fardriver controller bro
Unfortunately they don't make anything powerful enough. Most powerful they've got can only handle 20 kW, I need at least 24 kW continuous to match the Kelly...preferably 30kW to match the motor's power better. Only Kelly has what I need for an affordable price, currently. But like I said, I'm going to try the cheaper mods first to establish a benchmark for torque and go from there when the budget allows.
Ok bro for fardriver the only option is using 2 controller or dual controller setup
@@JamesBiggar If the mods are not enough you might want to take a look at 3Shul controllers. I'm pretty sure that the CL1000 or the CL1400 will meet your power requirements.
🍓🍒Эх, жаль покататься нельзя))
How long he can ran?
I can run for about 1 minute before I'm out of breathe. I'm out of shape
@@JamesBiggar how long it's take to charge
You know " rather B welding " channel ?
Yep, we follow each other.
🍓🍒Какой хороший канал
Has he scrapped the electric motorcycle build?
Nope. Far from it. I've been waiting for gear for two collaborations involving that project. You'll see that again sooner than you think.
How much money have you spent?
Kelly is cool, but you still have to do Chinese to American unit conversions. 100 Chinese amps equals 50 American amps, sometimes it equals 10 American amps. 100 Chinese horsepower equals 50 American horsepower. The max amps of your controller should be about three times the max you want to send to your motor. Using Chinese unit conversion, your motor max current should be the continuous current output of the controller. This was trial by error on a few small builds.
The rated current for Kelly controllers is actually the ac phase current to the motor, not DC to the controller. 100 amps at nominal voltage from the battery to the controller doesn't equate to 100 amps from the controller to the motor after its converted to ac and the output voltage varies depending on the rpm and throttle input (not like a typical voltage drop in a battery under load). That's why I had over current issues with full throttle from a dead stop or low speed and not at high speed; higher rpm = higher voltage to the motor but lower current demand (v*a = w) and subsequently lower torque. If you look at a power curve graph from any motor, that's what you'll see. Characteristics will vary a bit, but more or less, eventually the torque and current take a dive at a certain point as rpm increases. You should've contacted Fany at Kelly support instead of using guesswork. They could've explained it to you and saved you some trouble. As I mentioned in the video, there was an overcurrent issue on the ac (output) side of the controller that Fany and I resolved for the most part, but that lowered the torque. The motor can pull more ac current than what the controller can provide. The dc side isn't the issue. We knew that from the start when I contacted them BEFORE buying to cover all my bases, but again, that was the largest controller that could be matched with it at the time (from any supplier) so we did what we could by tuning down the motor current and adjusting torque/speed and MAP, and starting with a 5:1 gear ratio with the expectation of making changes later with both the mechanical and electrical to get the torque that I want without compromising more speed than what I can afford to drive on this track.
🍓🍒Есть ветрогенераторы не лопастные, а в виде торчащей вверх дубинки))
Используют резонанс воздуха
Это особый вид ветрогенераторов про который мало кто знает))
Если такой поставить на крышу
Можно при езде и аккумулятор заряжать
Ездить на самозапите
lol, horseshit! 😂