Yeah. Would have been easier to just take over, change the name, and let it be. Republic worked pretty good that far. Apart of the corruption in the senate and stuff
Invest with time of suffering and hard work... To only achieve 2% of that time in prosperity. Yeah, Sedious was kind of pathetic. This is made even more true because of George's rework of his character in the prequels. I adore said rework but... He was originally this, cartoony, just evil character but in the prequels the focus was on Anakin's fall to the dark side and Sedious displaying Machiavellian skills in manipulation that magically vanish after he thinks he's already won. He just lost his mojo. It's also interesting that Anakin's fall took a lot of inspiration form a then incomplete Wheel Of Time with how that series handled a fall to the dark side as it were. The funniest part is how this derived story actually predicted the loss of a hand for the character in question form WoT who hadn't lost a hand yet.
Bane: "My Sith have wiped out over 99% of the Jedi and turned the Republic into a new Sith Empire? Excellent. They did WHAT with it?!?! What were they thinking? Were the even thinking at all?"
As stated in a different video from SW, though not enough people bring it up, is that The Rule of Two had the huge built in weakness of "What to do AFTER the plan succeeds?"
Plagueis' Approach of figuring out immortality could solve the most likely problem "what if I get assassinated/overthrown?" By getting out that variable, he could focus on more logistical matters, ala "How to run a Galactic Empire?" I do not know if Sith philosophy asked for control and order (like how Palpatine ran The Empire) or simply the extermination of the light side by prevailing over it (The Empire could be at endless war and near-collapsed but as long as there are force-opponents no one's really gonna stop the Sith from growing in power)
Yeah, all he had to say was "evolution does not end with victory, for defeat is still possible". Reaching their goal is meaningless if they grab hold of it, only for it to slip from their fingers like the Sith empires of the past.
Palpatine only ruled for 20 years then died and the Sith were wiped out after 1000 years of planning Palpatine is a cool villain and a genius but he is a complete failure
I wouldn’t call Sidious a genius when his opponents were fools at best and idiots at worse In whcih it’s easy to get power from people who don’t see what’s going on
@@ATalesTruth- Palpatine is a genius when it comes to the dark side of the force, manipulation and light saber combat but he does some *REALLY* stupid things
@@richardkenan2891 that’s the issue if your plan relies on your enemies to being fools or incompetent That means your not smart enough to outsmart those who Aren’t Fooling a fool is easy Fooling a genius is harder
In a way Palpatine is like Madara Uchiha, thinking he is the only one who he can entrust to achieve anything. By contrast, Bane is Hashirama Senju who believed in passing on his teachings and will to the next generation to create something beyond his imagination.
@@jockpackage1770 also they will probably be disappointed in the way Palpatine defeated his master. Bane believed the apprentice challenged the master face-to-face, both full power.
@@dh7731 Not really, he accepted that underhanded tactics working were the victim's fault, like when he was poisoned by a chick from the Sith academy. That's a flaw in the Rule Of Two that even he would allow. It was not a system of honor, it was evolution through survival of the fittest.
@jockpackage1770 that was when Githany tried to kill him, before his Rule of 2 was really put into practice. Remember, he hadn't even destroyed the Brotherhood quite yet. He explicitly made clear to Zannah that, in order to make sure the successor was strongest, Apprentices must challenge their Masters and defeat them in a fight to the death using all their strength and powers.
I think it was the he didnt understand love. He was great at manipulating, but he never truly understood what he was manipulating. It saw it purely in how it can be used to control, but not in how it could lead others to defy him
@@unigaming9921 his downfall was the very right he used to manipulate-love. He manipulated Anakin with love and emotions and his complete misunderstanding if them killed him
To be fair, the ultimate failing of The Rule of Two was it was focused on evolution and not governance. Bane had no plan for how to rule the galaxy after The Sith finally took over. It was this lack of foresight that caused Palpatine and his immediate predecessors to ultimately fail in their goal of ruling the galaxy for 1,000 years.
The lack of plan was because Bane knew that it would take way too long, well past his physical life's end, and had hoped/thought/assumed/etc that his Sith of the future would have been able to make the perfect plan for the future as it approached... THAT, despite it being such an insignificant oversight, was/is Darth Bane's BIGGEST FAILURE... I'm not saying Palpatine/Sidious gets a pass for HIS failure, I'm just saying not ALL of it rests on the latter's shoulders.
i mean if i make the way for you to rise, the least you could do is understand how to stay there dont you think ? he can't chew everythinng for sidious to eat
@@L1ghtZ1vr But that's the kicker: None of the Rule of 2 Sith had any ideas on how to rule. Even Palpatine who was a politician didn't have a solid idea, just a vague "I'll apply Sith doctrine to the empire" idea. Although in both canon and legends he tried to remedy this upon his return by having only those absolutely loyal to him. But by then the damage had been done. At least someone along the way should have made an outline for rulership. It didn't help Vader force choked almost everyone who sneezed in his general direction, causing a lot of talented Imperial officers to die needlessly either.
@@thunderstudent thats true but planning how to govern a nation so far in the future would have many difficulties as times changes, if the modern sith lords were totalaly incompetent thats not the fault of banne though 😅besides the last siths didn't even try to stay true to the sith code made by bane so even if he did make a program of governance what would assure they'll follow it
@@L1ghtZ1vr True, but he could have left a skeleton of dogs and don'ts for his successors to build on. Like "HEY, FUTURE DARK LORDS, HERE’S A BARE BONES SET OF GUIDELINES!! BUILD OFF THEM YOU MORONS, DO IT BEFORE YOU DIE!"
Palpatine was the perfect product of the rule of 2 but his ego was so inflated he viewed himself far above the importance of the Sith. He never even bothered creating Holocrons for future Sith after himself. I think prime Anakin was the only time he proudly saw him as a successor. Due to his absurd levels of talent and godlike force potential..Saying to Yoda “Lord Vader will become more powerful than either of us” …After that he treated himself like a meaningless cyborg enforcer after Vader lost value in his eyes. I mean besides the nature of the dark side what knowledge has he even passed to Vader. Vader uses the dark side like a bat using force push, telekinesis, or choke. Vader to my knowledge isn’t rich with Sith techniques. I know why he can’t use lighting but that’s only one of MANY dark side abilities. Sidious could create force storms Darth Zannab could create lethal tendrils from dark side energy, and Exar Kun could drain life and energy for living people. Vader is powerful but even as a cyborg was underutilized. Sidious uses him like a hammer to maintain his grip on the galaxy. If he died somehow the thought of him leaving nothing behind for the Sith after him don’t mean anything to him. He didn’t give af.
funny u mention that, the moment he saw anakin all burned up on mustafar he decided he didnt want vader to replace him anymore and instead opted to lock him in a crappy suit and forced vader to deal with it
@@TavaraTheLaughingLion literally the chosen one and stated by george lucas to have the potential to be 2 times stronger than sidious but due to his time in mustafar would forever stay at 80% of sidious power
@@L1ghtZ1vr Twice as strong as Sidious is like base level of characters such as Revan and Exar Kun. When we're talking god-like potential was thinking more along the lines of being twice as strong as those guys.
@@TavaraTheLaughingLion well we're talking about lucas saying it when they made the prequels and iirc he said in that same interview that palpatine was the strongest sith in history, i'm sure about anakin's talent but i don't remember exactly this one so i could be wrong but let's remember anakin is basically jesus christ in star wars lol
I mean kind of semantics. Sssassins like Mault, ventress, and Starkiller could easily have filled the role of Cognus. "You there." "Yeah I know, I know, don't interfere and I will be trained by the winner." The assassins were not a problem, Sedious being all pissed about it and trying to have someone as promising as Starkiller killed was stupid.
@@jockpackage1770 You are supposed to kill promising acolytes and assassins. You are only supposed to give those people a mere shade of your power.. Starkiller was both very well trained and had immense potential. Maul was a bit of a gray are but Palpatine intentionally did not train him in politics, subtlety, persuasion etc. He turned him into a weapon
@@Adrian7070-h4g Potential squandering with both, Starkiller's raw power that should have been an enticing prospect. Also, frankly, Maul had potential as a better foil for Anakin to pull him the dark side with their mutual darkness in their past. Not to mention the fact that the separatists would have mattered a whole lot more and been more enticing with Maul, politically trained or not, because he's one of them. Rather than some fool from the core worlds/Jedi that "gets it" in Dooku. they'd have a guy who lived through the shit the republic/Jedi allowed to happen that gave normal people anxiety and thus reason to side with against them.
I like to write Star Wars stuff with others from time to time, and this video reminded me of this reply I wrote in character as Zannah: “It was only through the Rule of Two that the Sith found focus, purpose, and strength. Under its guidance, our order annihilated the Jedi, destroyed their order, and took control of the galaxy. The Galactic Empire, ruled by the Sith, was not some accident of fate; it was the culmination of Bane’s vision, the ultimate proof that the Rule of Two succeeded where all others had failed.” "Sidious may have brought our Order to its zenith, but he did so only by standing on the foundation laid by generations of Sith, starting with my master. But his failure-the destruction of everything we built-was his alone. He forgot the very source of our strength. By seeking an apprentice to serve rather than challenge him, he betrayed the Rule of Two and destroyed our great order." “The Sith were not ruined by the Rule of Two-they were ruined by its abandonment. The moment Sidious sought to rule alone, replacing the Rule of Two with a mockery of our tradition, he invited the decay that would lead to his destruction. He failed to understand that our strength lies in the cycle of master and apprentice, in the relentless pursuit of power that purges weakness and ensures only the strongest survive.” “The Sith did not die out because of the Rule of Two. They died because Sidious betrayed it. Had he remained true to Bane’s teachings, had he nurtured a worthy successor instead of seeking to dominate without challenge, the Sith would still rule today. The Rule of Two is not a relic of the past; it is the only path to true, enduring power. Sidious saw power as an end in itself, Bane saw it differently. ‘Power is a means to an end. It is not an end in itself,’ as he once told me. Because through power, we gain victory. And through victory, our chains are broken!“
Think it was a combination of Vader Thrawn Boba Tarkin Without these 4 characters the emperor would of been overthrown many years before he did especially vader.
@Theemptythroneistaken I'd be willing to concede to Thrawn and Tarkin. I think Vader helped it along faster, but I don't think he was instrumental in the overall plan. More of a force multiplier than anything.he did as he was told quick, fast, and in a hurry. Brutally efficient. Fire and forget. Tarkin was a master manipulator and regional powerhouse that actively pursued the Emporer's goals (and his own). He was a facilitator, planner, and strategist. Thrawn had overwhelming insight and battle genius. Thrawn alone made the death star pointless, especially if he'd gotten his special project funded and completed. The fact that he *alone* kept the Empire limping along, just by sheer strategic war-play, is a feat in itself. Boba is a good assassin. There's plenty of good assassins. It was a team effort, but really, the heavy lifters were the two T's
@@Theemptythroneistaken Vader was nothing more than a blunt instrument. He waas the iron fist that carried out the plans. He had very little to say in terms of actual plannining, logistics and ideas. Governing was not his strong point.
Palpatine is Iger, and Iger is Palpatine. Both can't imagine the empire they rule existing without them. Iger is so egotistical and self-centered, he can't imagine the Disney company existing without him, because he thinks he built it. He didn't. He destroyed it. Just as Palpatine destroyed the Sith, ultimately.
Let's hope they get rid of Iger and can bring back quality content back. Especially the animated kind. And maybe a certain apprentiece can save Star Wars. Gosh, my headcanons are better thaan the sequels
@@mariusconstantin6057 if by “apprentice” you mean Filoni? Sorry to disappoint you, but he was as much responsible for that train wreck called the Acolyte as Headland was. The witches were apparently his idea. And Ahsoka season 1 proved that he should stick to what he knows, which is animation.
I think Darth Bane would have hated how Sideous excluded Vader from the future plans of the Sith. Vader had no part in the experiments on Exogol, or in learning essence transfer, or even in getting the opportunity to upgrade his suit into something more formidable. What if Vader had defied the odds and succeeded Sideous as Emperor? He was utterly ill-equipped to the task, both in terms of being a Sith master and as a long term figure head for the Empire. There was no grooming him to be anything more than an attack dog, like Grevious before him. Rather than viewing Vader as disposable, Sideous should have used him as a trial for perfecting the cloning/essence transfer process. Getting his apprentice with such massive potential back to 100% should have been his top priority. Whereas Sideous experienced degradation of his clone bodies, I believe the power of the chosen one would have a more stable and lasting outcome in the process. He then should have been the first of Sideous' apprentices to be trained properly; not a weapon like Maul or Grevious, and not a pawn like Dooku. This is what Darth Bane would have wanted for the succession of the Rule of Two.
"Don't be to proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force."- Darth Vader on the Death Star.
It was a failure. You've even said so yourself in past videos. The Sith in the Rule of 2 had the grand plan to take down the Jedi and the Republic, but didn't plan for anything after that. Because of this they just pissed everyone off, and over time the Rebellion was born. That's about 977 years shy of Palatine's 1,000 year Empire. If that's not a failure then I have no idea what is. The Sith are like Wile E. Coyote, they are always destined to fail eventually.
It's worse We moved forward as one people - the Imperial citizens of the first Galactic Empire. We will prevail. Ten thousand years of peace begins today. - Palpatine
The first order of business was to get rid of the Republic and the Jedi because they were the sith enemy. The after plan was to rule an empire with an emperor that changed and grew with the times. That was his blue print. The specific details would have to be written in by the powerful sith Lords that would rule. Plagues and Sidious decided that they didn't want to relinquish power and that there would be no revolving door with their power.
Thank you for Not joining the dark side and standing with The Jedi Star Wars Theory! ❤ You will one day have your name inscribed on a Holocron describing the coming victory!
If Bane was alive during the age of the Empire or Thrawn was around during the start of the Rule of Two, the two together would’ve been a literal unstoppable menace of absolute control and order in the ways of the Sith. Perhaps if Bane was the head of the Empire with Thrawn as his personal Grand Admiral then the Empire could’ve lasted much, much longer than 20 years.
I watched your videos for a good stretch of time now SW, but after the weird stuff Star Wars Theory talked about yesterday, the force has called me to be a new sub and I said ok. Keep making good content👍🏽👍🏽
Sidious was essentially a spoiled child from an extremely wealthy Nubian family. For one, he never learned humility. So just like the Rakata he too was blinded by arrogance. There’s actually a good amount of correlations between the Infinite Empire of the Rakatans and Palpatine himself. In the way they both approached gaining power.
I do think bane would have turned the rule of two once they have an empire into something very simple, a bloodline thing because when your title of emperor is literally just that you’re more powerful then your predecessor the question is how long until people try to figure out how to develop technologies that can overcome the force so they can take power
Actually there's a thing, is that quote of Darth Traya? She meant that Ancient Sith Lords made sith of her time look like kids playing with toys, while both sides had power the sith of Darth Traya's time who Darth Traya knew about were herself who was banished by the rest, Darth Sion is a blunt instrument who needs to use the force to keep himself alive and lives in perpetual agony, Darth Nihilus is obsessed with feeding on the force to the point where he's what can be considered a Sith Wretch, a horrifyingly dangerous being who can drain planets empty of living beings in there, though he's addicted to it and he can't go on without draining, he is a dangerous being who is unfit to rule anything, that's what the statement sounds like when you rub brain cells toghether. The Ancient Sith from Darth Traya's perspective are empire makers and empire rulers, her current Sith are nothing but one banished ruler and two abominations with one of them relying on dark side and force all the time to stay alive with pain, other one was a life drain addict who was a parasite of the force who won't ever bother to do anything but drain life from planets and destroy.
Oh, pretty sure Bane would have wanted to bury Palps. While I'm not a fan of the Rule of 2 myself, I get it's reasnoning and I can't deny that it accomplished it's goal. It's just a shame that it did so at the hands of a fool like Prunepatine. Yes, the old empire had it's flaws winth constant infighting but it did keep them in the fight.
This left me wanting a spreadsheet of sith lords, their qualities, skills/powers, and errors. For reasons other than fulfilling the prophecy of the Sith'ari.
Bane probably disapproved of Sidious, from the moment he became the Sith Master. After all…by Bane’s rule states that the apprentice must take their master’s place, by challenging their master, and defeating them. Sidious…did not do that. He got his master drunk, and then killed him, after he passed out.
He probably would've also disapproved of Plagieus, since he didn't openly challenge Tenebrous, but waited until he was distracted and just pulled down some loose rocks to crush him. That being said, Sidious was far worse than Plagieus given that he never intended to properly train an apprentice who could continue the legacy of the Sith (Maul, who couldn't have a life outside the Sith because of his appearance and inability to blend in, Dooku, who was always just a placeholder who never fully embraced the dark, and Vader, who he never trained)
Only a 20 year reign to show for thousands of years of secrecy, sacrifice and effort. Hardly what you would call a dynasty. “At an end your rule is and not short enough it was.“
In summary, Darth Bane would have ben more proud of Grand Admiral Thrawn than with Emperor Palpatine despite Thrawn having no connection with the Force.
I know you don’t want you and your channel to be involved with this but big W for you standing with Star Wars Theory. You and him are among the best Star Wars content creators
@@Dantexshadows Usual RUclips drama. Some creators are jealous of other creators for being more successful or on the side of the audience, rather than the corporation, so they try to cancel them. It backfires.
Without a doubt, Stupendous Wave has the best Star Wars RUclips channel while all other content creators envy this success. Would you like to know why it's so successful??? Because his videos aren't focused on drama, they are all focused on the deepest lore, they are intelligent and thought-provoking, I always learn something new about Star Wars that I didn't before, and because this guy honestly does seem to have the best understanding of Star Wars lore. Thank you Stupendous wave. Thank you for simply being better than everyone else.
Not to mention the destruction of Alderaan. Even Bane believed that killing innocents if it did not further the Grand Plan was a waste of resources and turned others against you
Ultimately in the end the self is self destructive. Someone who is fully trained in the wisdom of the way of the light learns that 'No resistance leads to no effort and no effort leads to no resistnace' understanding this evil can be defeated without effort. or resistance
Bane is not like your average sith, he is patient, he is flexible and he is not a bloodthirsty psycho. Bane thought people who liked to cause chaos or Kill for the hell of it were fools. It's not a massive surprise that he would have hated Sidious. Sidious killed his master in his sleep instead of a 1v1(Which bane stressed was Necessary). Sidious was needlessly cruel and his greatest crime in banes eyes would be his hindering of Vader. A sith apprentice is supposed to be legacy not a slave.
I noticed you've mentioned in this and in several videos how Tarkin loses his mind with all that power from the Death Star. Could you do a full video that goes in-depth about that? And just how insane he truly became.
Wow well done. I personally believe Bane would have seen Sidious as unworthy. His ideals of strength through the power over the focus and rule of two. Plus views of the old Sith’s politics and infighting. Probably not his jam
9:04 - 10:13 and thats where Darth Vader was suppose to be final piece to the Sith’s grand plan for eternal dominion, it was Palpatine’s intention to groom Vader to become this dark side godly being to cementing the Sith’s grand design, Vader was suppose to be the ultimate endgame but all of that was lost during his failure on Mustafar so Sidious had other ideas since there was no one else in the galaxy that could be his equal led alone surpass him to inherit the Empire aside from the fact Darth Plagueis inadvertently created Anakin for that soul purpose to begin with
I think this is spot on. The way Vader and Luke and in turn Rey took him down was sadly too easy. Bane and thrawn together would have been unstoppable and created a constant evolution of power.
It would be interesting if you did a what if if Sidious had listened to Thorne and had Focus the resources on superstar destroyers and the tie Fighters
Ironic Bane himself consider a Rule of One idea but dismissed that it was a bad idea in favor of the Rule of Two. So Bane would be pissed off but impress Sidous’ power and skills
I would say another critical flaw with Sidious specifically was that he believed he was above using a lightsaber and having to do any fighting at all. While Bane would certainly have others take out threats for him, he was never above doing so with his own hands whether it was with the force or the lighsaber.
Darth bane: your empire sucks Darth sidious: your empire sucks Bane :i don't have a empire Sidious: exactly Bane : i be an better leader Sidious: no im better i got rid of the Jedi all of them
But every passing iteration of a game and series, disney keeps adding more n' more jedi survivors... im starting to question if order 66 was even a success at all. The FIRST jedi purge caused by the Sith Triumvirate was way more successfull now 😅
@@galacticfirefly6060 there were over 10000 jedi in the galaxy at the time of order 66. even if order 66 was 99% sucessful, that leaves 100 jedi still floating around. The sith Triumvirate had a few things going in their favour. 1) The Jedi and republic had been in 2 MASSIVE wars prevoius to that, thus thinning their numbers to barely 100 by the end of the jedi civil war. 2) Nhilus - literally ate the life of any planet in which jedi gathered 3) The lessons of malachor allowing the sith assasins to track jedi through the force. They brought the jedi to the edge of extintion through relentlessness and staying hidden - not in one massive surprise attack. the Mandalorian wars and Jedi civil war had lead so many Jedi to the dark side as they matched agression with their own aggression - this in turn corrupted them and turned them to the sith side. Then the mass Shadow Generator caused a scream in the force that destroyed those that remained - save Meetra Surik. Teh Triumvirate had a long line of successived events that weakened the jedi gradually over time and prevented them from bouncing back.The crippled Republic was too weak to lend any aid to the jedi and thus the jedi became targets. Whenever they tried to fight back against the sith assasins, Nhilus would sense them and uttely drain the planet of all life. These succesive events caused the Jedi to fall to a mere 1 Jedi Knight who managed to rebuild the order.
I look at it like a dog who chases a car. What’s the dog going to do when they catch it? The Sith focused so much on the Grand Plan that they didn’t focus on what would they would do once it was completed.
You forgot to mention a crucial detail. The Rule of Two demanded that the apprentice killed the master while the master was at his/her strongest, as discussed in the Bane trilogy, in order to create a Sith Master stronger than the last, but the was ignored entirely by the later Banite Sith, killing their masters at their weakest, or least suspecting. The earliest we know of this is from Tenebrous, and Plagueis hinted Tenebrous killed his master through nefarious means instead of direct combat, and then Plagueis killed Tenebrous in a cave-in, and Sidious killed Plagueis while Plagueis was drunk. Another point is that many of the Sith Lords in the Rule of Two purposely kept vital information from their apprentices that would he lost to history, and purposely trained them poorly so they couldn't become stronger than the master, forcing the apprentices to kill the master through nefarious means instead of direct combat, and this polluted the Rule of Two. Sidious himself is guilty of this as he trained Maul, Dooku, and Vader to become stronger than your average prequel era Jedi (the era where the Jedi are at their weakest, confirmed in the Bane trilogy and Plagueis book), but never as strong as him.
I agree. There were too many lower people in control of too much of the galaxy. Like you said, the high command of the empire should’ve been subservient to Palpatine or Vader. They were given too much “say so” in the new Sith empire. I get that it’s a big galaxy and they can’t be everywhere all the time but things like the Death Star should’ve been strictly controlled and overseen by a Sith.
Personally I don’t think the abolition of the rule of Two was the problem, there are only so many forceful beings that could be born rivaling the power of the Chosen One. I believe that Palpatine did so too early, and it should’ve been either Full Potential Vader or Darth Luke/Leia to do it. Only those born from the demigod line of Skywalker should’ve been allowed to rule for eons to make it more likely that the Force would accept their rule. I do believe though, that Darth Bane probably would’ve taken one look at Palpatine before labeling him as having power with no purpose, even if Darth Tenebrous would’ve approved of it.
Bane is shaping up to be my favourite Sith. Uses form 3 to get an advantage also it is "unheard" of for a sith to use a defensive form, is very clever and never failed (yes, he lost at the end, but his design for the Sith called for him to be bested one day, so it is no failure) and was very practical and not discriminating against aliens.
One of the things that I don't think Darth Bane accounted for in his new Sith order was change. In particular how his Sith could change over time while at the same point staying loyal to the Bane Doctrine. Palpatine was the Dark Lord yes, but he was in many ways everything Bane would have NOT wanted in a Master of the Sith. He had an apprentice in Vader along with several other previous apprentices that for all purposes were never going to be able to take over the Sith. This is a complete violation of the Rule of Two: The Master must take on an apprentice that has the potential to one day destroy them and take over themselves. A Bane era master would have immediately destroyed Vader on Mustafar because at that point Vader would have shown that he would never have the power to take over by killing Sidious. Sidious in the end would have never been taken on as a Sith Apprentice by someone like Bane if only because Sidious would have shown early on in his studies under the Sith that he wouldn't have the required commitment to putting the interests of the Sith above his own interests. Plagueis was a fool to train Palpatine and the fact that Palpatine killed him in his sleep was very telling that both Plagueis and Palpatine has drifted too far away from Bane's principles.
Bane criticized the Brotherhood of Darkness by calling it a dark reflection of the Jedi. Ironically, though, the exact same criticism could be applied to the Rule of 2. Just as the Jedi devote and ultimately give their lives to the Light Side, every Baneite Sith was expected to ultimately sacrifice their life for the Dark Side.
By the point in timeline of the Plagueis novel, I observed that although the sith dynasty revered past figures and lessons of history (as they ought), they had a real problem with maintaining the foundations and the founder's vision. It seems with each successor came further and further disconnect from the ultimate goal of the dynasty, Bane's sith order of the rule of two. This degradation is perhaps a natural consequence but...I should think future members of the sith lineage would've had to have been too disciplined for the allowance of personal pursuit or ideation to corrupt it. With as sterile and clandestine as the sith were, operating in cover of darkness out of necessity, Bane's concepts along with history should have provided a clear path as well as stark reminders of why deviations wouldn't work. All told, yeah I have to agree with this assessment because a millennium of plotting shouldn't be upended so soon after a mere two decades of rule.
Bane is turning in his dark grave. The failure of palpatine at the moment of triumph is unforgivable. He destroyed the Sith and made them weaker than ever before. Put himself before the Sith. Bane always put the Sith first. Edit: also I don't think for a moment any apprentice of Bane would be treated the way the officers treated Vader. Shit would not fly with Zannah. We both know that...
Thank you for being a positive spot of the Star Wars Fandom. Always putting out great quality lore videos I can always watch to remember why I love Star wars so much.
Specifically, Bane said that having more than two Sith allowed for numerous weaker Sith to join together to defeat a powerful master, thus weakening the order by allowing the weak to prevail over the strong. the rule of two means that only by becoming stronger can you defeat your master. i doubt Bane would have approved of Plagueis using opportunity to kill his master rather than strength either.
I think Sidious did respect the rule of 2. Darth Vader was so crippled that he could not challenge Sidious for the title of Sith Master. Sidious tried to replace Vader with Luke Skywalker. If Luke became the new apprentice, then he would have eventually overthrown Sidious and became the Sith Emperor. Darth Bane's rule of 2 would have continued to rule the galaxy.
I think Palpatine not adhering to the Rule of Two philosophy was a reflection of his Master, Darth Palgueis disdain for the Rule of Two. Plagueis considered The Rule of Two an anachronism.
No he wasnt wrong, Sidious betrayed Banes Legacy and plan, and no he wasnt the only one, most after him and Zannah started to use assassinations, or poison or other cowardice ways to to kill their master, or in some cases, the master killed the student to avoid being killed and stay in power, so much of what Bane learned was lost forever, and not only that, but Sidious literally made sure that every apprentice he had could never overthrow him, he never taught them everything as Banes legacy demands and after he became a short termed emperor he planned on the sith dying out with him as Vader could never take over and there was no other apprentice who would ever stand a chance against him he was a traitor to Banes legacy and to the entire Sith order as well.
Inevitably descendants are destined to ruin the work of their forbears, through unjust arrogance or complacency Darth Bane would undoubtedly disappointed if not disgusted by how far the Sith had fallen, and how self centered Palpatine was The Sith Empire of old (while continuously in fighting) devoted most if not all their effort to their Empire and their civilization, allowing it to last Thousands of years while palpatines Empire was so self centered that it only lasted 20 years at most!
I'm not terribly surprised. Bane's philosophy almost has a light sided tinge through self sacrifice in its own twisted way. Palpatine wouldn't have been able to see the wisdom of that point of view. It's almost like darksiders version of balance.
Sidious: Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power I finally gain victory! *20 years later* Sidious: Bane: Sooo, about that Victory 🤣
The most ironic thing about the rule of two is that it took 1000 years to succeed, then 20 years to fall into the same complacent arrogance they're constantly pointing out about the Jedi
Yeah, vader and thrawn and all the imperial star destroyers in all variants and classes are cool, but this video pretty clearly explains why i like the sith empire of vitiate more than the Galactic empire
Calling Tarkin competent is extremely ironic considering his fondness for really dumb full frontal assaults even when they make no sense due to a complete lack of numeric advantage.
Sidious's rule of one was good, but his problem was not having a successor. Had he accepted the sith can never be immortal and let one continue the sith legacy it would've survived
I believe he wanted anakin burnt up so he couldn’t overthrow him. Lead him down the path that would lead to him burning up intentionally, and had anakin overcome this outcome by killing obi wan, palpy would have succumbed to anakin much earlier than he did. He only stayed a with as long as he did because he got fucked up. He felt extreme despair, and palpy was satisfied with a powerful enforcer to do his bidding.
The Rule of One can only work with a being like Tenebrae, but his ambition outgrew "Mortal Concerns" and tried to devour everything. But when he focuses on his Empires, they actually prospered and were powerhouses in their own right. Both the Sith Empire and Zakuul were on their own reflections of Tenebraes Genius, with only 2 Major Flaws, The Sith Infighting in the Sith Empire and the Decadence of Zakuul
Yeah, it really doesn't matter if they are Sith or not, having all the top officers squabbling over meaningless things and favoring a state of stagnation. Bane's whole thing was to have the sith evolved but Sedious arrogantly thought he was above that and was the final culmination of that line. Bane however, never intended for the line to end. He believed that evolution through their apprentices defeating them in any way they could was the better way. Bane's laissez faire attitude with how Sith overthrow their masters has its issues, if the wrong student pulls the right trick then they win and an untold amount of knowledge could be lost because they didn't earn the win or learn all they could from their master so that could set the Sith back centuries in more extreme cases. Bane would have liked Vader, he saw that the empires way of doing things was foolish. While he himself foolishly expressed this by thrashing around like a rabid dog off its leash. Killing officers that were annoying yes but still useful, without a second thought. In a way he was worse than Grievous, "Grievous, those battle droids are expensive". Having to use humans that must be trained and given time to grow and obtain experience is far more of an investment than any droid. It is likely that Bane wouldn't have been happy with that but preferred him over Sedious. Yeah, "in the past we'd secretly enjoyed putting down a local insurrection or two, they kept the troops sharp and the empire feared, but these rebels were different. They were organized, they were growing, and they were everywhere." I don't care that this game's story had stuff that was retconned into better writing down the line, it was an interesting take on the clones. If Sedious was confident in his power, why the hell would he concern himself with his officers like that? Keeping them fighting each other so they don't fight him? Where did all his Machiavellian skill go? It would have been easy to maintain that to an extent to manipulate his officers to be loyal. Have them be competitive, within reason, to drive them to improve but don't have them sabotaging the empire just for their own advancement? He had a good thing going but he had to ruin it as soon as he thought he won. In reality this is just he was a simpler villain originally and George wanted to make him better in the prequals to tell Vader's story so that explains that. That's also true, Sedious getting all pissed about Ventress would not have happened if he followed the Rule Of Two. He would have simply viewed Ventress and Starkiller the same way Bane viewed Cognus, "you learn form the winner".
Sidius’s failure is proven with the collapse of both the empire and first order shortly after his death. The reason for the collapses had everything to do with the Sith penchant for self serving behavior, to such an extent as to even destroy any sense of a cohesive culture beyond them.
Ironic. The reason bane would hate palpatine would be due to his recreating the verybproblem bane got rid of...only they wouldn't be force welders but normal administrators fighting among themselve
I like to see what other sith would do with the empire if they were emperor like if bane was in place of palpatine instead of being the first sith in the rule of two
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
A thousand years plot for a measly 20 year reign is pretty sad
Yeah. Would have been easier to just take over, change the name, and let it be. Republic worked pretty good that far. Apart of the corruption in the senate and stuff
Invest with time of suffering and hard work... To only achieve 2% of that time in prosperity. Yeah, Sedious was kind of pathetic. This is made even more true because of George's rework of his character in the prequels. I adore said rework but... He was originally this, cartoony, just evil character but in the prequels the focus was on Anakin's fall to the dark side and Sedious displaying Machiavellian skills in manipulation that magically vanish after he thinks he's already won. He just lost his mojo. It's also interesting that Anakin's fall took a lot of inspiration form a then incomplete Wheel Of Time with how that series handled a fall to the dark side as it were. The funniest part is how this derived story actually predicted the loss of a hand for the character in question form WoT who hadn't lost a hand yet.
This comment is gold!
At least Sidious managed to do it.
. This is true. Nearly eradicated the Jedi. Except, of course, the most important 😂
All that being said, Sidious is still my favorite character 😁
Bane: "My Sith have wiped out over 99% of the Jedi and turned the Republic into a new Sith Empire? Excellent. They did WHAT with it?!?! What were they thinking? Were the even thinking at all?"
RIP James Earl Jones. Forever Vader.
Agreed friend
Facts
Agreed
Exactly
As stated in a different video from SW, though not enough people bring it up, is that The Rule of Two had the huge built in weakness of "What to do AFTER the plan succeeds?"
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Yes
Plagueis' Approach of figuring out immortality could solve the most likely problem "what if I get assassinated/overthrown?"
By getting out that variable, he could focus on more logistical matters, ala "How to run a Galactic Empire?"
I do not know if Sith philosophy asked for control and order (like how Palpatine ran The Empire) or simply the extermination of the light side by prevailing over it (The Empire could be at endless war and near-collapsed but as long as there are force-opponents no one's really gonna stop the Sith from growing in power)
Dog sees car. Dog chases car. Dog catches car. Dog ??????????
@@LackofFaithifyFacts 🤣🤣
Yeah, all he had to say was "evolution does not end with victory, for defeat is still possible". Reaching their goal is meaningless if they grab hold of it, only for it to slip from their fingers like the Sith empires of the past.
Palpatine only ruled for 20 years then died and the Sith were wiped out after 1000 years of planning
Palpatine is a cool villain and a genius but he is a complete failure
I wouldn’t call Sidious a genius when his opponents were fools at best and idiots at worse
In whcih it’s easy to get power from people who don’t see what’s going on
@@ATalesTruth- Palpatine is a genius when it comes to the dark side of the force, manipulation and light saber combat but he does some *REALLY* stupid things
@@ATalesTruth-part of genius is making sure to strike when and where your foes are most foolish and incompetent.
@@richardkenan2891 that’s the issue if your plan relies on your enemies to being fools or incompetent
That means your not smart enough to outsmart those who Aren’t
Fooling a fool is easy
Fooling a genius is harder
Or maybe the Rule of 2 really was just dumb.
As Sidious said, "All who gain power are afraid to lose it."
In a way Palpatine is like Madara Uchiha, thinking he is the only one who he can entrust to achieve anything. By contrast, Bane is Hashirama Senju who believed in passing on his teachings and will to the next generation to create something beyond his imagination.
@@jockpackage1770 also they will probably be disappointed in the way Palpatine defeated his master. Bane believed the apprentice challenged the master face-to-face, both full power.
@@dh7731 Not really, he accepted that underhanded tactics working were the victim's fault, like when he was poisoned by a chick from the Sith academy. That's a flaw in the Rule Of Two that even he would allow. It was not a system of honor, it was evolution through survival of the fittest.
@@jockpackage1770 as far as I’m concerned, reading the books regarding Darth Bane, he didn’t approve, but maybe I should reread them
@jockpackage1770 that was when Githany tried to kill him, before his Rule of 2 was really put into practice. Remember, he hadn't even destroyed the Brotherhood quite yet.
He explicitly made clear to Zannah that, in order to make sure the successor was strongest, Apprentices must challenge their Masters and defeat them in a fight to the death using all their strength and powers.
Palpatine ego was his downfall
No Darth Vader was his downfall when he literally threw him down a mile high shaft into a reactor
I think it was the he didnt understand love. He was great at manipulating, but he never truly understood what he was manipulating. It saw it purely in how it can be used to control, but not in how it could lead others to defy him
@@unigaming9921 his downfall was the very right he used to manipulate-love. He manipulated Anakin with love and emotions and his complete misunderstanding if them killed him
To be fair, the ultimate failing of The Rule of Two was it was focused on evolution and not governance. Bane had no plan for how to rule the galaxy after The Sith finally took over. It was this lack of foresight that caused Palpatine and his immediate predecessors to ultimately fail in their goal of ruling the galaxy for 1,000 years.
The lack of plan was because Bane knew that it would take way too long, well past his physical life's end, and had hoped/thought/assumed/etc that his Sith of the future would have been able to make the perfect plan for the future as it approached... THAT, despite it being such an insignificant oversight, was/is Darth Bane's BIGGEST FAILURE... I'm not saying Palpatine/Sidious gets a pass for HIS failure, I'm just saying not ALL of it rests on the latter's shoulders.
i mean if i make the way for you to rise, the least you could do is understand how to stay there dont you think ? he can't chew everythinng for sidious to eat
@@L1ghtZ1vr But that's the kicker: None of the Rule of 2 Sith had any ideas on how to rule. Even Palpatine who was a politician didn't have a solid idea, just a vague "I'll apply Sith doctrine to the empire" idea. Although in both canon and legends he tried to remedy this upon his return by having only those absolutely loyal to him. But by then the damage had been done. At least someone along the way should have made an outline for rulership. It didn't help Vader force choked almost everyone who sneezed in his general direction, causing a lot of talented Imperial officers to die needlessly either.
@@thunderstudent thats true but planning how to govern a nation so far in the future would have many difficulties as times changes, if the modern sith lords were totalaly incompetent thats not the fault of banne though 😅besides the last siths didn't even try to stay true to the sith code made by bane so even if he did make a program of governance what would assure they'll follow it
@@L1ghtZ1vr True, but he could have left a skeleton of dogs and don'ts for his successors to build on. Like "HEY, FUTURE DARK LORDS, HERE’S A BARE BONES SET OF GUIDELINES!! BUILD OFF THEM YOU MORONS, DO IT BEFORE YOU DIE!"
Palpatine was the perfect product of the rule of 2 but his ego was so inflated he viewed himself far above the importance of the Sith. He never even bothered creating Holocrons for future Sith after himself. I think prime Anakin was the only time he proudly saw him as a successor. Due to his absurd levels of talent and godlike force potential..Saying to Yoda “Lord Vader will become more powerful than either of us” …After that he treated himself like a meaningless cyborg enforcer after Vader lost value in his eyes. I mean besides the nature of the dark side what knowledge has he even passed to Vader. Vader uses the dark side like a bat using force push, telekinesis, or choke. Vader to my knowledge isn’t rich with Sith techniques. I know why he can’t use lighting but that’s only one of MANY dark side abilities. Sidious could create force storms Darth Zannab could create lethal tendrils from dark side energy, and Exar Kun could drain life and energy for living people. Vader is powerful but even as a cyborg was underutilized. Sidious uses him like a hammer to maintain his grip on the galaxy. If he died somehow the thought of him leaving nothing behind for the Sith after him don’t mean anything to him. He didn’t give af.
Anakin had god-like Force potential? How exactly?
funny u mention that, the moment he saw anakin all burned up on mustafar he decided he didnt want vader to replace him anymore and instead opted to lock him in a crappy suit and forced vader to deal with it
@@TavaraTheLaughingLion literally the chosen one and stated by george lucas to have the potential to be 2 times stronger than sidious but due to his time in mustafar would forever stay at 80% of sidious power
@@L1ghtZ1vr Twice as strong as Sidious is like base level of characters such as Revan and Exar Kun. When we're talking god-like potential was thinking more along the lines of being twice as strong as those guys.
@@TavaraTheLaughingLion well we're talking about lucas saying it when they made the prequels and iirc he said in that same interview that palpatine was the strongest sith in history, i'm sure about anakin's talent but i don't remember exactly this one so i could be wrong but let's remember anakin is basically jesus christ in star wars lol
RIP James Earl Jones
I never thought that Darth Bane would find Palpatine’s empire a failure, though it’s not surprising. Nevertheless, interesting video!
The more I watch these lore videos the more I realise alot of these sith hate on each other 😂😂
You’re absolutely right!
@@c.s3369kind of their motto
@@c.s3369They are literally the generational haters.
@@c.s3369if a sith doesnt hate, can he really still be called sith?
He used “assassins” to try and get around the rule but was a stupid excuse and still was against the rules
😂
😂😂
I mean kind of semantics. Sssassins like Mault, ventress, and Starkiller could easily have filled the role of Cognus. "You there." "Yeah I know, I know, don't interfere and I will be trained by the winner." The assassins were not a problem, Sedious being all pissed about it and trying to have someone as promising as Starkiller killed was stupid.
@@jockpackage1770 You are supposed to kill promising acolytes and assassins. You are only supposed to give those people a mere shade of your power.. Starkiller was both very well trained and had immense potential. Maul was a bit of a gray are but Palpatine intentionally did not train him in politics, subtlety, persuasion etc. He turned him into a weapon
@@Adrian7070-h4g Potential squandering with both, Starkiller's raw power that should have been an enticing prospect. Also, frankly, Maul had potential as a better foil for Anakin to pull him the dark side with their mutual darkness in their past. Not to mention the fact that the separatists would have mattered a whole lot more and been more enticing with Maul, politically trained or not, because he's one of them. Rather than some fool from the core worlds/Jedi that "gets it" in Dooku. they'd have a guy who lived through the shit the republic/Jedi allowed to happen that gave normal people anxiety and thus reason to side with against them.
I like to write Star Wars stuff with others from time to time, and this video reminded me of this reply I wrote in character as Zannah:
“It was only through the Rule of Two that the Sith found focus, purpose, and strength. Under its guidance, our order annihilated the Jedi, destroyed their order, and took control of the galaxy. The Galactic Empire, ruled by the Sith, was not some accident of fate; it was the culmination of Bane’s vision, the ultimate proof that the Rule of Two succeeded where all others had failed.”
"Sidious may have brought our Order to its zenith, but he did so only by standing on the foundation laid by generations of Sith, starting with my master. But his failure-the destruction of everything we built-was his alone. He forgot the very source of our strength. By seeking an apprentice to serve rather than challenge him, he betrayed the Rule of Two and destroyed our great order."
“The Sith were not ruined by the Rule of Two-they were ruined by its abandonment. The moment Sidious sought to rule alone, replacing the Rule of Two with a mockery of our tradition, he invited the decay that would lead to his destruction. He failed to understand that our strength lies in the cycle of master and apprentice, in the relentless pursuit of power that purges weakness and ensures only the strongest survive.”
“The Sith did not die out because of the Rule of Two. They died because Sidious betrayed it. Had he remained true to Bane’s teachings, had he nurtured a worthy successor instead of seeking to dominate without challenge, the Sith would still rule today. The Rule of Two is not a relic of the past; it is the only path to true, enduring power. Sidious saw power as an end in itself, Bane saw it differently. ‘Power is a means to an end. It is not an end in itself,’ as he once told me. Because through power, we gain victory. And through victory, our chains are broken!“
If it weren't for Thrawn, Palps wouldn't have made it to 20. Thrawn is the GOAT
Think it was a combination of
Vader
Thrawn
Boba
Tarkin
Without these 4 characters the emperor would of been overthrown many years before he did especially vader.
@Theemptythroneistaken I'd be willing to concede to Thrawn and Tarkin.
I think Vader helped it along faster, but I don't think he was instrumental in the overall plan. More of a force multiplier than anything.he did as he was told quick, fast, and in a hurry. Brutally efficient. Fire and forget.
Tarkin was a master manipulator and regional powerhouse that actively pursued the Emporer's goals (and his own). He was a facilitator, planner, and strategist.
Thrawn had overwhelming insight and battle genius. Thrawn alone made the death star pointless, especially if he'd gotten his special project funded and completed. The fact that he *alone* kept the Empire limping along, just by sheer strategic war-play, is a feat in itself.
Boba is a good assassin. There's plenty of good assassins. It was a team effort, but really, the heavy lifters were the two T's
@@Theemptythroneistaken Vader was nothing more than a blunt instrument. He waas the iron fist that carried out the plans. He had very little to say in terms of actual plannining, logistics and ideas. Governing was not his strong point.
Palpatine is Iger, and Iger is Palpatine. Both can't imagine the empire they rule existing without them. Iger is so egotistical and self-centered, he can't imagine the Disney company existing without him, because he thinks he built it. He didn't. He destroyed it. Just as Palpatine destroyed the Sith, ultimately.
Let's hope they get rid of Iger and can bring back quality content back.
Especially the animated kind.
And maybe a certain apprentiece can save Star Wars.
Gosh, my headcanons are better thaan the sequels
@@mariusconstantin6057 if by “apprentice” you mean Filoni? Sorry to disappoint you, but he was as much responsible for that train wreck called the Acolyte as Headland was. The witches were apparently his idea. And Ahsoka season 1 proved that he should stick to what he knows, which is animation.
RIP James Earl Jones 🙏🕊️
R.i.p james earl jones, legendary voice of darth vader
I think Darth Bane would have hated how Sideous excluded Vader from the future plans of the Sith. Vader had no part in the experiments on Exogol, or in learning essence transfer, or even in getting the opportunity to upgrade his suit into something more formidable. What if Vader had defied the odds and succeeded Sideous as Emperor? He was utterly ill-equipped to the task, both in terms of being a Sith master and as a long term figure head for the Empire. There was no grooming him to be anything more than an attack dog, like Grevious before him.
Rather than viewing Vader as disposable, Sideous should have used him as a trial for perfecting the cloning/essence transfer process. Getting his apprentice with such massive potential back to 100% should have been his top priority. Whereas Sideous experienced degradation of his clone bodies, I believe the power of the chosen one would have a more stable and lasting outcome in the process. He then should have been the first of Sideous' apprentices to be trained properly; not a weapon like Maul or Grevious, and not a pawn like Dooku. This is what Darth Bane would have wanted for the succession of the Rule of Two.
Because as a Dark Lord you're not supposed to teach your apprentice everything you know.
"Don't be to proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force."- Darth Vader on the Death Star.
It was a failure. You've even said so yourself in past videos. The Sith in the Rule of 2 had the grand plan to take down the Jedi and the Republic, but didn't plan for anything after that. Because of this they just pissed everyone off, and over time the Rebellion was born. That's about 977 years shy of Palatine's 1,000 year Empire. If that's not a failure then I have no idea what is. The Sith are like Wile E. Coyote, they are always destined to fail eventually.
It's worse
We moved forward as one people - the Imperial citizens of the first Galactic Empire. We will prevail. Ten thousand years of peace begins today.
- Palpatine
The first order of business was to get rid of the Republic and the Jedi because they were the sith enemy. The after plan was to rule an empire with an emperor that changed and grew with the times. That was his blue print. The specific details would have to be written in by the powerful sith Lords that would rule. Plagues and Sidious decided that they didn't want to relinquish power and that there would be no revolving door with their power.
Yes, Bane would be outraged
Thank you for Not joining the dark side and standing with The Jedi Star Wars Theory! ❤
You will one day have your name inscribed on a Holocron describing the coming victory!
Same here. That was an eye-opener for me
Just want to say Wave that you have a great Star Wars channel, thanks for the content and being a bro to Star Wars Theory. Glad to be subscribed !
If Bane was alive during the age of the Empire or Thrawn was around during the start of the Rule of Two, the two together would’ve been a literal unstoppable menace of absolute control and order in the ways of the Sith.
Perhaps if Bane was the head of the Empire with Thrawn as his personal Grand Admiral then the Empire could’ve lasted much, much longer than 20 years.
I watched your videos for a good stretch of time now SW, but after the weird stuff Star Wars Theory talked about yesterday, the force has called me to be a new sub and I said ok. Keep making good content👍🏽👍🏽
Sidious was essentially a spoiled child from an extremely wealthy Nubian family. For one, he never learned humility. So just like the Rakata he too was blinded by arrogance. There’s actually a good amount of correlations between the Infinite Empire of the Rakatans and Palpatine himself. In the way they both approached gaining power.
I do think bane would have turned the rule of two once they have an empire into something very simple, a bloodline thing because when your title of emperor is literally just that you’re more powerful then your predecessor the question is how long until people try to figure out how to develop technologies that can overcome the force so they can take power
The ancient sith Lords are way more powerful than the new sith Lords
Damn right!
They're just jealous because they're not the one ruling
Sidious is the second strongest sith lord of all time stop hyping them
The Rule Of Two explanation in the Book Of Sith debunks this:
Actually there's a thing, is that quote of Darth Traya?
She meant that Ancient Sith Lords made sith of her time look like kids playing with toys, while both sides had power the sith of Darth Traya's time who Darth Traya knew about were herself who was banished by the rest, Darth Sion is a blunt instrument who needs to use the force to keep himself alive and lives in perpetual agony, Darth Nihilus is obsessed with feeding on the force to the point where he's what can be considered a Sith Wretch, a horrifyingly dangerous being who can drain planets empty of living beings in there, though he's addicted to it and he can't go on without draining, he is a dangerous being who is unfit to rule anything, that's what the statement sounds like when you rub brain cells toghether.
The Ancient Sith from Darth Traya's perspective are empire makers and empire rulers, her current Sith are nothing but one banished ruler and two abominations with one of them relying on dark side and force all the time to stay alive with pain, other one was a life drain addict who was a parasite of the force who won't ever bother to do anything but drain life from planets and destroy.
The empire would have been a success if they didn't fail
Outstanding point🤣
'They would have won if they didn't lose'....I mean, you aren't wrong there
And this floor is made of floor. :)
Can say that about every empire that came before the Galactic Empire.
Palpatine's real enemy wasn't the rebels or the Jedi but himself.
Imperial Officer: *fails one too many times*
Darth Vader: That’s it! I’m gonna-
Darth Sidious: No Vader…
Oh, pretty sure Bane would have wanted to bury Palps. While I'm not a fan of the Rule of 2 myself, I get it's reasnoning and I can't deny that it accomplished it's goal. It's just a shame that it did so at the hands of a fool like Prunepatine. Yes, the old empire had it's flaws winth constant infighting but it did keep them in the fight.
We lost James Earl jones today. Rest in peace Lord Vader
This left me wanting a spreadsheet of sith lords, their qualities, skills/powers, and errors.
For reasons other than fulfilling the prophecy of the Sith'ari.
Bane probably disapproved of Sidious, from the moment he became the Sith Master. After all…by Bane’s rule states that the apprentice must take their master’s place, by challenging their master, and defeating them. Sidious…did not do that. He got his master drunk, and then killed him, after he passed out.
He probably would've also disapproved of Plagieus, since he didn't openly challenge Tenebrous, but waited until he was distracted and just pulled down some loose rocks to crush him. That being said, Sidious was far worse than Plagieus given that he never intended to properly train an apprentice who could continue the legacy of the Sith (Maul, who couldn't have a life outside the Sith because of his appearance and inability to blend in, Dooku, who was always just a placeholder who never fully embraced the dark, and Vader, who he never trained)
@@879PC I thought he intend to train Vader, but after his dip in the lava, Sidious changed his mind, to his Rule of One.
@@hyrulianhero9004that’s pretty much what he did. He abandoned the Banite Rule of 2 for his Rule of One after Vader’s failure on Mustafar.
Only a 20 year reign to show for thousands of years of secrecy, sacrifice and effort. Hardly what you would call a dynasty.
“At an end your rule is and not short enough it was.“
If Darth Bane had seen what Sidious was doing would he have tried to sabotage Palpatine's plans? Makes you wonder
what a great topic to think about. great video as always
In summary, Darth Bane would have ben more proud of Grand Admiral Thrawn than with Emperor Palpatine despite Thrawn having no connection with the Force.
I know you don’t want you and your channel to be involved with this but big W for you standing with Star Wars Theory. You and him are among the best Star Wars content creators
What happened?
@@Dantexshadows Usual RUclips drama. Some creators are jealous of other creators for being more successful or on the side of the audience, rather than the corporation, so they try to cancel them. It backfires.
@@Dantexshadows drama surrounding him and Star Wars explained
Without a doubt, Stupendous Wave has the best Star Wars RUclips channel while all other content creators envy this success. Would you like to know why it's so successful??? Because his videos aren't focused on drama, they are all focused on the deepest lore, they are intelligent and thought-provoking, I always learn something new about Star Wars that I didn't before, and because this guy honestly does seem to have the best understanding of Star Wars lore. Thank you Stupendous wave. Thank you for simply being better than everyone else.
Not to mention the destruction of Alderaan. Even Bane believed that killing innocents if it did not further the Grand Plan was a waste of resources and turned others against you
Ultimately in the end the self is self destructive. Someone who is fully trained in the wisdom of the way of the light learns that 'No resistance leads to no effort and no effort leads to no resistnace' understanding this evil can be defeated without effort. or resistance
Palpatine was his own worst enemy, he was so afraid of losing power he allowed his Empire to be a mess.
Bane is not like your average sith, he is patient, he is flexible and he is not a bloodthirsty psycho. Bane thought people who liked to cause chaos or Kill for the hell of it were fools.
It's not a massive surprise that he would have hated Sidious. Sidious killed his master in his sleep instead of a 1v1(Which bane stressed was Necessary). Sidious was needlessly cruel and his greatest crime in banes eyes would be his hindering of Vader. A sith apprentice is supposed to be legacy not a slave.
I noticed you've mentioned in this and in several videos how Tarkin loses his mind with all that power from the Death Star. Could you do a full video that goes in-depth about that? And just how insane he truly became.
Wow well done. I personally believe Bane would have seen Sidious as unworthy. His ideals of strength through the power over the focus and rule of two. Plus views of the old Sith’s politics and infighting. Probably not his jam
Bane would be very angry
9:04 - 10:13 and thats where Darth Vader was suppose to be final piece to the Sith’s grand plan for eternal dominion, it was Palpatine’s intention to groom Vader to become this dark side godly being to cementing the Sith’s grand design, Vader was suppose to be the ultimate endgame but all of that was lost during his failure on Mustafar so Sidious had other ideas since there was no one else in the galaxy that could be his equal led alone surpass him to inherit the Empire aside from the fact Darth Plagueis inadvertently created Anakin for that soul purpose to begin with
I think this is spot on. The way Vader and Luke and in turn Rey took him down was sadly too easy. Bane and thrawn together would have been unstoppable and created a constant evolution of power.
It would be interesting if you did a what if if Sidious had listened to Thorne and had Focus the resources on superstar destroyers and the tie Fighters
Ironic Bane himself consider a Rule of One idea but dismissed that it was a bad idea in favor of the Rule of Two. So Bane would be pissed off but impress Sidous’ power and skills
I would say another critical flaw with Sidious specifically was that he believed he was above using a lightsaber and having to do any fighting at all. While Bane would certainly have others take out threats for him, he was never above doing so with his own hands whether it was with the force or the lighsaber.
Seen your response to Theory's video. Respect. You two are the ONLY Star Wars channels I need in my life.
Darth bane: your empire sucks
Darth sidious: your empire sucks
Bane :i don't have a empire
Sidious: exactly
Bane : i be an better leader
Sidious: no im better i got rid of the Jedi all of them
But he didn’t 😂
@@DarthSardukar Sidious reduced them to a nearly extinct state so yes he did.
But every passing iteration of a game and series, disney keeps adding more n' more jedi survivors... im starting to question if order 66 was even a success at all. The FIRST jedi purge caused by the Sith Triumvirate was way more successfull now 😅
@@galacticfirefly6060 there were over 10000 jedi in the galaxy at the time of order 66.
even if order 66 was 99% sucessful, that leaves 100 jedi still floating around. The sith Triumvirate had a few things going in their favour.
1) The Jedi and republic had been in 2 MASSIVE wars prevoius to that, thus thinning their numbers to barely 100 by the end of the jedi civil war.
2) Nhilus - literally ate the life of any planet in which jedi gathered
3) The lessons of malachor allowing the sith assasins to track jedi through the force.
They brought the jedi to the edge of extintion through relentlessness and staying hidden - not in one massive surprise attack.
the Mandalorian wars and Jedi civil war had lead so many Jedi to the dark side as they matched agression with their own aggression - this in turn corrupted them and turned them to the sith side. Then the mass Shadow Generator caused a scream in the force that destroyed those that remained - save Meetra Surik.
Teh Triumvirate had a long line of successived events that weakened the jedi gradually over time and prevented them from bouncing back.The crippled Republic was too weak to lend any aid to the jedi and thus the jedi became targets. Whenever they tried to fight back against the sith assasins, Nhilus would sense them and uttely drain the planet of all life.
These succesive events caused the Jedi to fall to a mere 1 Jedi Knight who managed to rebuild the order.
I look at it like a dog who chases a car. What’s the dog going to do when they catch it? The Sith focused so much on the Grand Plan that they didn’t focus on what would they would do once it was completed.
You forgot to mention a crucial detail. The Rule of Two demanded that the apprentice killed the master while the master was at his/her strongest, as discussed in the Bane trilogy, in order to create a Sith Master stronger than the last, but the was ignored entirely by the later Banite Sith, killing their masters at their weakest, or least suspecting. The earliest we know of this is from Tenebrous, and Plagueis hinted Tenebrous killed his master through nefarious means instead of direct combat, and then Plagueis killed Tenebrous in a cave-in, and Sidious killed Plagueis while Plagueis was drunk. Another point is that many of the Sith Lords in the Rule of Two purposely kept vital information from their apprentices that would he lost to history, and purposely trained them poorly so they couldn't become stronger than the master, forcing the apprentices to kill the master through nefarious means instead of direct combat, and this polluted the Rule of Two. Sidious himself is guilty of this as he trained Maul, Dooku, and Vader to become stronger than your average prequel era Jedi (the era where the Jedi are at their weakest, confirmed in the Bane trilogy and Plagueis book), but never as strong as him.
It's funny how the best way for sith to become stronger is to be less selfish and greedy.
Sidious may have been sith, but he behaved like a dark jedi
I agree. There were too many lower people in control of too much of the galaxy. Like you said, the high command of the empire should’ve been subservient to Palpatine or Vader. They were given too much “say so” in the new Sith empire. I get that it’s a big galaxy and they can’t be everywhere all the time but things like the Death Star should’ve been strictly controlled and overseen by a Sith.
Old saying rings true in this case: Pride (Arrogance) cometh before the fall...
Personally I don’t think the abolition of the rule of Two was the problem, there are only so many forceful beings that could be born rivaling the power of the Chosen One. I believe that Palpatine did so too early, and it should’ve been either Full Potential Vader or Darth Luke/Leia to do it. Only those born from the demigod line of Skywalker should’ve been allowed to rule for eons to make it more likely that the Force would accept their rule.
I do believe though, that Darth Bane probably would’ve taken one look at Palpatine before labeling him as having power with no purpose, even if Darth Tenebrous would’ve approved of it.
This holicron will be useful to restudy for my goals of bringing true balance to the force ...I may have slept on banes mindset rule of 2
All villains share the same weakness... hubris.
Bane is shaping up to be my favourite Sith.
Uses form 3 to get an advantage also it is "unheard" of for a sith to use a defensive form, is very clever and never failed (yes, he lost at the end, but his design for the Sith called for him to be bested one day, so it is no failure) and was very practical and not discriminating against aliens.
thanks for the vid brother and staying out of that mess
One of the things that I don't think Darth Bane accounted for in his new Sith order was change.
In particular how his Sith could change over time while at the same point staying loyal to the Bane Doctrine.
Palpatine was the Dark Lord yes, but he was in many ways everything Bane would have NOT wanted in a Master of the Sith. He had an apprentice in Vader along with several other previous apprentices that for all purposes were never going to be able to take over the Sith. This is a complete violation of the Rule of Two: The Master must take on an apprentice that has the potential to one day destroy them and take over themselves.
A Bane era master would have immediately destroyed Vader on Mustafar because at that point Vader would have shown that he would never have the power to take over by killing Sidious.
Sidious in the end would have never been taken on as a Sith Apprentice by someone like Bane if only because Sidious would have shown early on in his studies under the Sith that he wouldn't have the required commitment to putting the interests of the Sith above his own interests. Plagueis was a fool to train Palpatine and the fact that Palpatine killed him in his sleep was very telling that both Plagueis and Palpatine has drifted too far away from Bane's principles.
Sidious never trained a proper apprentice
Bane criticized the Brotherhood of Darkness by calling it a dark reflection of the Jedi. Ironically, though, the exact same criticism could be applied to the Rule of 2. Just as the Jedi devote and ultimately give their lives to the Light Side, every Baneite Sith was expected to ultimately sacrifice their life for the Dark Side.
By the point in timeline of the Plagueis novel, I observed that although the sith dynasty revered past figures and lessons of history (as they ought), they had a real problem with maintaining the foundations and the founder's vision.
It seems with each successor came further and further disconnect from the ultimate goal of the dynasty, Bane's sith order of the rule of two. This degradation is perhaps a natural consequence but...I should think future members of the sith lineage would've had to have been too disciplined for the allowance of personal pursuit or ideation to corrupt it.
With as sterile and clandestine as the sith were, operating in cover of darkness out of necessity, Bane's concepts along with history should have provided a clear path as well as stark reminders of why deviations wouldn't work.
All told, yeah I have to agree with this assessment because a millennium of plotting shouldn't be upended so soon after a mere two decades of rule.
Bane is turning in his dark grave. The failure of palpatine at the moment of triumph is unforgivable. He destroyed the Sith and made them weaker than ever before. Put himself before the Sith. Bane always put the Sith first. Edit: also I don't think for a moment any apprentice of Bane would be treated the way the officers treated Vader. Shit would not fly with Zannah. We both know that...
Just the idea of the deathstar would have discusted bane. i dont think bane would have been to happy about plaugies either and maybe not even tenebris
I so get what you’re saying .. I’m a dad I want my children to take over the world
Bane would have dispatched the two of them. He would of considered Sidius an abomination! And Vader, a mistake.
Thank you for being a positive spot of the Star Wars Fandom. Always putting out great quality lore videos I can always watch to remember why I love Star wars so much.
Specifically, Bane said that having more than two Sith allowed for numerous weaker Sith to join together to defeat a powerful master, thus weakening the order by allowing the weak to prevail over the strong.
the rule of two means that only by becoming stronger can you defeat your master.
i doubt Bane would have approved of Plagueis using opportunity to kill his master rather than strength either.
I think Sidious did respect the rule of 2. Darth Vader was so crippled that he could not challenge Sidious for the title of Sith Master. Sidious tried to replace Vader with Luke Skywalker. If Luke became the new apprentice, then he would have eventually overthrown Sidious and became the Sith Emperor. Darth Bane's rule of 2 would have continued to rule the galaxy.
I think Palpatine not adhering to the Rule of Two philosophy was a reflection of his Master, Darth Palgueis disdain for the Rule of Two. Plagueis considered The Rule of Two an anachronism.
No he wasnt wrong, Sidious betrayed Banes Legacy and plan, and no he wasnt the only one, most after him and Zannah started to use assassinations, or poison or other cowardice ways to to kill their master, or in some cases, the master killed the student to avoid being killed and stay in power, so much of what Bane learned was lost forever, and not only that, but Sidious literally made sure that every apprentice he had could never overthrow him, he never taught them everything as Banes legacy demands and after he became a short termed emperor he planned on the sith dying out with him as Vader could never take over and there was no other apprentice who would ever stand a chance against him he was a traitor to Banes legacy and to the entire Sith order as well.
Inevitably descendants are destined to ruin the work of their forbears, through unjust arrogance or complacency
Darth Bane would undoubtedly disappointed if not disgusted by how far the Sith had fallen, and how self centered Palpatine was
The Sith Empire of old (while continuously in fighting) devoted most if not all their effort to their Empire and their civilization, allowing it to last Thousands of years while palpatines Empire was so self centered that it only lasted 20 years at most!
I'm not terribly surprised. Bane's philosophy almost has a light sided tinge through self sacrifice in its own twisted way. Palpatine wouldn't have been able to see the wisdom of that point of view. It's almost like darksiders version of balance.
Sidious: Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power I finally gain victory!
*20 years later*
Sidious:
Bane: Sooo, about that Victory 🤣
Sidious: I’m not done with them yet. I am already one step ahead.
Bane: He’ll be back…
The most ironic thing about the rule of two is that it took 1000 years to succeed, then 20 years to fall into the same complacent arrogance they're constantly pointing out about the Jedi
Sidious undermined his own empire to keep his power, and in the end that made him lose the power
Yeah, vader and thrawn and all the imperial star destroyers in all variants and classes are cool, but this video pretty clearly explains why i like the sith empire of vitiate more than the Galactic empire
Calling Tarkin competent is extremely ironic considering his fondness for really dumb full frontal assaults even when they make no sense due to a complete lack of numeric advantage.
My favorite videos are about the ancient Sith Lords. Bane is my personal favorite.
Looks at governments with revolving doors...
Ya that never ends well either...
Palpy was a parasite Using everyone else to further his goals without contributing anything himself.
Sidious's rule of one was good, but his problem was not having a successor. Had he accepted the sith can never be immortal and let one continue the sith legacy it would've survived
I believe he wanted anakin burnt up so he couldn’t overthrow him. Lead him down the path that would lead to him burning up intentionally, and had anakin overcome this outcome by killing obi wan, palpy would have succumbed to anakin much earlier than he did. He only stayed a with as long as he did because he got fucked up. He felt extreme despair, and palpy was satisfied with a powerful enforcer to do his bidding.
The Rule of One can only work with a being like Tenebrae, but his ambition outgrew "Mortal Concerns" and tried to devour everything. But when he focuses on his Empires, they actually prospered and were powerhouses in their own right. Both the Sith Empire and Zakuul were on their own reflections of Tenebraes Genius, with only 2 Major Flaws, The Sith Infighting in the Sith Empire and the Decadence of Zakuul
Yeah, it really doesn't matter if they are Sith or not, having all the top officers squabbling over meaningless things and favoring a state of stagnation. Bane's whole thing was to have the sith evolved but Sedious arrogantly thought he was above that and was the final culmination of that line. Bane however, never intended for the line to end. He believed that evolution through their apprentices defeating them in any way they could was the better way. Bane's laissez faire attitude with how Sith overthrow their masters has its issues, if the wrong student pulls the right trick then they win and an untold amount of knowledge could be lost because they didn't earn the win or learn all they could from their master so that could set the Sith back centuries in more extreme cases. Bane would have liked Vader, he saw that the empires way of doing things was foolish. While he himself foolishly expressed this by thrashing around like a rabid dog off its leash. Killing officers that were annoying yes but still useful, without a second thought. In a way he was worse than Grievous, "Grievous, those battle droids are expensive". Having to use humans that must be trained and given time to grow and obtain experience is far more of an investment than any droid. It is likely that Bane wouldn't have been happy with that but preferred him over Sedious.
Yeah, "in the past we'd secretly enjoyed putting down a local insurrection or two, they kept the troops sharp and the empire feared, but these rebels were different. They were organized, they were growing, and they were everywhere." I don't care that this game's story had stuff that was retconned into better writing down the line, it was an interesting take on the clones.
If Sedious was confident in his power, why the hell would he concern himself with his officers like that? Keeping them fighting each other so they don't fight him? Where did all his Machiavellian skill go? It would have been easy to maintain that to an extent to manipulate his officers to be loyal. Have them be competitive, within reason, to drive them to improve but don't have them sabotaging the empire just for their own advancement? He had a good thing going but he had to ruin it as soon as he thought he won. In reality this is just he was a simpler villain originally and George wanted to make him better in the prequals to tell Vader's story so that explains that.
That's also true, Sedious getting all pissed about Ventress would not have happened if he followed the Rule Of Two. He would have simply viewed Ventress and Starkiller the same way Bane viewed Cognus, "you learn form the winner".
Palpatine empire would ultimately be a failure he was arrogant and too greedy not willing to let go of his power.
Palpatine was a shmuck and it cost the Sith their 1000 year grand plan. The Sith will alwad be their own downfall
Sidius’s failure is proven with the collapse of both the empire and first order shortly after his death. The reason for the collapses had everything to do with the Sith penchant for self serving behavior, to such an extent as to even destroy any sense of a cohesive culture beyond them.
Excellent points 👍🏻
Great video
Ironic. The reason bane would hate palpatine would be due to his recreating the verybproblem bane got rid of...only they wouldn't be force welders but normal administrators fighting among themselve
Well in teems if banes own empire you could say sidious empire was a failure since his lasted what 20+ years whilst banes last for hundreds.
I like to see what other sith would do with the empire if they were emperor like if bane was in place of palpatine instead of being the first sith in the rule of two
Imagine thinking that any Sith would be happy with anything another Sith did.