You guys aren't getting to the color you should. 54V should be a silvery gold color. You're achieving something that looks closer to 35-40v... You need to etch the surface for uniformity and use a larger surface area cathode. Folded or coiled steel foil/mesh works well for small, temporary setups, but expanded metal works nicely for permanent solutions.
Yes, and no. I worked in a jewelry store where the uneducated and POS of my boss has steel for the Rhodium plating it was garbage; galvanic corrosion. The best electrodes are made from titanium. Also, with platinum the desired color is dependent on X-number of Voltage. He never said he was looking for "gold".
@@curlyhairdudeify I only work with anodization and electropolishing, so I don't know much about plating, but from what I do know about the process I don't know if galvanic corrosion was as big an issue as you think. Plating is a cathodic process and it takes some time, so I have to imagine that the anode contact was probably dissolving as the process was happening. Assuming the contact was submerged , the steel was being electropolished away and moving toward the workpiece. I can imagine that probably messed with your plating process, but likely from the steel plating itself onto your cathode/workpiece alongside the rhodium or falling out of the bath as an ion salt rather than by actual rust or corrosion. If it didn't get submerged with the sacrificial rhodium strip, then it very well could have been a galvanic process. Mismatched metals in contact, and all that. I don't do plating. In any case, the "best" electrode is dependent on your use case. So long as it won't rust/corrode or toss out free ions for the duration of your process, you're golden. You use titanium for longevity in an anodic condition provided the electrolyte can't mess with the oxide coat. You don't want it to dissolve over time as you're anodizing or electropolishing. Think hardcoat type 2 Anodization of aluminum or the electropolishing of steel in a sulfuric/ phosphoric acid bath. Sulfuric and phosphoric acids won't touch the titanium. TiO2 is really hard to dissolve without the proper electrolyte solvent, so titanium is widely used as contact points and cathode material. If your electrolyte has fluorine or chlorine ions running around in it, God help you if you use titanium on the anode side. My point about color vs voltage was more that the setup shown didn't get to the correct color, which tells me that something is wrong. I saw 6x9V batteries, which (unless depleted) should have charged the cell to ~54V. At 54V, the color should have been silvery gold, not blue. There are 3 blue-ish colors in the titanium type 3 anodization spectrum. It starts showing at ~10V with a bronze-y looking brown before turning a deep, rich purple at 17-18V. Solid, dark blue appears at 22-23V. It fades to a lighter ice blue as you approach ~35-40v before turning gold. Keep going up and you'll get to these funky, two-toned, iridescent gold-pink pink-purple, and purple-pink mixes. If you go up to ~76-78V, you get an iridescent bluey-purple before the two-tones become solid monotones again and you pass through teal and into a vibrant candy apple green before the color disappears and you just see the raw titanium color again. The oxide film's thickness is entirely voltage dependent, and thus the color is also voltage determined. Again, my point was that the color is wrong given the setup. While they did manage to anodize their part, the result wasn't great. As a demonstration or a way to teach a technique, I would say its kinda crap. They needed an etch to create a uniform oxide substrate, a much higher cathode to anode ratio, and some way to reduce voltage bleed so that the part is charged to the proper voltage. They don't understand the process past "run electricity through the part while it's under a conductive liquid." To be clear, theres nothing wrong with lacking the knowledge to refine the process for better results, and I don't expect a general production shop that pretty much exclusively cuts metal to know a lot about electrochemistry. At a basic level, they did, in fact, achieve a type 3 Anodization coating on a titanium part. It just wasn't a particularly good one, so I thought I'd try to give them a bit of direction should they notice my comment.
For an indicative level, six crowns is enough. But in reality, a more capacious source will be needed, and the basic rule is: the lower the current and the longer the time, the better the layer will be. And vice versa. And of course we take into account the type of metal and liquid😮
Don't forget that type 3 Anodization color is governed entirely by voltage. The speed of formation is changed by varying current, but the color will remain consistent no matter what the supplied current is given a specified voltage value.
You mean the to be plated material or the sacrificial material which makes the coating? If you want to coat other metals easily i recommend electro plating. Similar setup, just with less batteries and a hydrogen peroxide/vinegar mix
You can't anodize all metals, no. Anodization is the electrochemical process by which an oxide layer with a specific structure is formed on the surface of a material. By varying conditions in the bath, you can produce different structures with varying properties. Aluminum will anodize in a couple different ways, but it won't produce interference color. There are only a few metals that will produce color in this way. Titanium, niobium, and zirconium are the three that immediately come to mind. Essentially what you're seeing here is a trick of the light similar to soap/oil color on the surface of water. It's not necessarily a protective coating, only a cosmetic one.
@@angrydragon4574 no problem :) if you really want to be specific, technically anything that can receive electrons can be anodized. just hook it up as the anode in an electrical system. It's just that you can't grow a controlled, uniform oxide coat on many materials using this method.
Not with color, no. Aluminum Anodization is typically done for corrosion resistance, though you can add dye to the surface and produce vibrant colors that way.
@garrett duell it's not made of anything. When you heat titanium it cycles colors in the same order twice, the second round requires more heat but they are deeper colors.
The baking soda makes the water conductive, and then the electricity splits the water apart into hydrogen and oxygen. Some of the oxygen will bond with the titanium at a specific rate depending on the voltage supplied, and the thickness of the oxide layer on the titanium determines the color that it shows. If it gets too thick, you can't see any color. It's a trick of the light similar to an oil sheen on water. There is no dye or pigment being produced, it's just that the oxide layer reflects specific wavelengths of light, and changing the thickness of the layer changes what wavelengths are reflected. There's blue, purple, gold, all the way up to teal and green.
I'm thinking about attaching the red cable to the negative terminal and the black to the positive. Sometimes I just feel like shaking hands with danger.
Electroboom did a video on it. I think he got up to a few thousand volts before you could hear it crackling and popping. Whatever 2000 divided by 9 is should be the answer.
You can laser color titanium, yes. It's all about controlling oxide thickness. Heat coloring is slightly different in that you don't get quite as uniform a layer, and I don't know about how durable it is. This type of anodization is usually rather fragile and easy to scrape off.
You guys aren't getting to the color you should. 54V should be a silvery gold color. You're achieving something that looks closer to 35-40v... You need to etch the surface for uniformity and use a larger surface area cathode. Folded or coiled steel foil/mesh works well for small, temporary setups, but expanded metal works nicely for permanent solutions.
Yes, and no. I worked in a jewelry store where the uneducated and POS of my boss has steel for the Rhodium plating it was garbage; galvanic corrosion.
The best electrodes are made from titanium.
Also, with platinum the desired color is dependent on X-number of Voltage.
He never said he was looking for "gold".
@@curlyhairdudeify I only work with anodization and electropolishing, so I don't know much about plating, but from what I do know about the process I don't know if galvanic corrosion was as big an issue as you think. Plating is a cathodic process and it takes some time, so I have to imagine that the anode contact was probably dissolving as the process was happening. Assuming the contact was submerged , the steel was being electropolished away and moving toward the workpiece. I can imagine that probably messed with your plating process, but likely from the steel plating itself onto your cathode/workpiece alongside the rhodium or falling out of the bath as an ion salt rather than by actual rust or corrosion.
If it didn't get submerged with the sacrificial rhodium strip, then it very well could have been a galvanic process. Mismatched metals in contact, and all that. I don't do plating.
In any case, the "best" electrode is dependent on your use case. So long as it won't rust/corrode or toss out free ions for the duration of your process, you're golden. You use titanium for longevity in an anodic condition provided the electrolyte can't mess with the oxide coat. You don't want it to dissolve over time as you're anodizing or electropolishing. Think hardcoat type 2 Anodization of aluminum or the electropolishing of steel in a sulfuric/ phosphoric acid bath. Sulfuric and phosphoric acids won't touch the titanium. TiO2 is really hard to dissolve without the proper electrolyte solvent, so titanium is widely used as contact points and cathode material. If your electrolyte has fluorine or chlorine ions running around in it, God help you if you use titanium on the anode side.
My point about color vs voltage was more that the setup shown didn't get to the correct color, which tells me that something is wrong. I saw 6x9V batteries, which (unless depleted) should have charged the cell to ~54V. At 54V, the color should have been silvery gold, not blue. There are 3 blue-ish colors in the titanium type 3 anodization spectrum.
It starts showing at ~10V with a bronze-y looking brown before turning a deep, rich purple at 17-18V. Solid, dark blue appears at 22-23V. It fades to a lighter ice blue as you approach ~35-40v before turning gold. Keep going up and you'll get to these funky, two-toned, iridescent gold-pink pink-purple, and purple-pink mixes. If you go up to ~76-78V, you get an iridescent bluey-purple before the two-tones become solid monotones again and you pass through teal and into a vibrant candy apple green before the color disappears and you just see the raw titanium color again. The oxide film's thickness is entirely voltage dependent, and thus the color is also voltage determined.
Again, my point was that the color is wrong given the setup. While they did manage to anodize their part, the result wasn't great. As a demonstration or a way to teach a technique, I would say its kinda crap. They needed an etch to create a uniform oxide substrate, a much higher cathode to anode ratio, and some way to reduce voltage bleed so that the part is charged to the proper voltage. They don't understand the process past "run electricity through the part while it's under a conductive liquid."
To be clear, theres nothing wrong with lacking the knowledge to refine the process for better results, and I don't expect a general production shop that pretty much exclusively cuts metal to know a lot about electrochemistry. At a basic level, they did, in fact, achieve a type 3 Anodization coating on a titanium part. It just wasn't a particularly good one, so I thought I'd try to give them a bit of direction should they notice my comment.
@@invisibletheift thanks for the detailed explanation 👍🏻 (I guess this is a 'positive' comment!)
@@ianunderwood3850 more neutral than anything? Didn't mean to attach any emotion to it at all, really lol
Positive in the sense that it adds to the discussion, not positive as in happy @@invisibletheift
All you need is: Battery, water and baking soda. Later in the video: shows 4 other things you need
Exactly. What we’re those other parts made of?
@@PaulDeanBumgarnerusually any metal will suffice as a cathode when anodising, steel is probably your best bet tho
Ofc you need power supply bro
For an indicative level, six crowns is enough. But in reality, a more capacious source will be needed, and the basic rule is: the lower the current and the longer the time, the better the layer will be. And vice versa. And of course we take into account the type of metal and liquid😮
Don't forget that type 3 Anodization color is governed entirely by voltage. The speed of formation is changed by varying current, but the color will remain consistent no matter what the supplied current is given a specified voltage value.
Brake lever is which type of metal?
This is the big variable in your presentation, everything else can be figured out from your description.
Does this work on other metals such as tin, bismuth, zinc, aluminum, etc.?
You mean the to be plated material or the sacrificial material which makes the coating? If you want to coat other metals easily i recommend electro plating. Similar setup, just with less batteries and a hydrogen peroxide/vinegar mix
You can't anodize all metals, no. Anodization is the electrochemical process by which an oxide layer with a specific structure is formed on the surface of a material. By varying conditions in the bath, you can produce different structures with varying properties. Aluminum will anodize in a couple different ways, but it won't produce interference color. There are only a few metals that will produce color in this way. Titanium, niobium, and zirconium are the three that immediately come to mind.
Essentially what you're seeing here is a trick of the light similar to soap/oil color on the surface of water. It's not necessarily a protective coating, only a cosmetic one.
Stainless steel, regular steel, aluminum, copper, nickel, and zinc can call be anodized.
@@invisibletheift Thanks!
@@angrydragon4574 no problem :) if you really want to be specific, technically anything that can receive electrons can be anodized. just hook it up as the anode in an electrical system. It's just that you can't grow a controlled, uniform oxide coat on many materials using this method.
Is this process also possible on aluminium?
Not with color, no. Aluminum Anodization is typically done for corrosion resistance, though you can add dye to the surface and produce vibrant colors that way.
Totally Cool !
Super cool Barry!😎
Yeh 😂
I agree! I myself have never seen this done in a homemade level. Barry puts the FUN in CNC fundamentals.
Cathode is positive 👌
Np anode is positive 😅
This is a electrolytic cell
I have a feeling you could use this process but use Powerade to colour alloy blue haha
The parts are 3d printed? I wish I could 3d print titanium parts.
If you leave it in there it will turn orange and then start the colors over in a darker tint.
What would it be if it turned orange? I mean, orange things are usually iron oxides, so what would an orange coating be made of?
@garrett duell it's not made of anything. When you heat titanium it cycles colors in the same order twice, the second round requires more heat but they are deeper colors.
So the color came from the baking soda?
Great question! Color formations are dependent on the thickness of the oxide, which is determined by the DC voltage.
The baking soda makes the water conductive, and then the electricity splits the water apart into hydrogen and oxygen. Some of the oxygen will bond with the titanium at a specific rate depending on the voltage supplied, and the thickness of the oxide layer on the titanium determines the color that it shows. If it gets too thick, you can't see any color. It's a trick of the light similar to an oil sheen on water. There is no dye or pigment being produced, it's just that the oxide layer reflects specific wavelengths of light, and changing the thickness of the layer changes what wavelengths are reflected. There's blue, purple, gold, all the way up to teal and green.
Would this work with aluminum? Or what ever cheap alloy Mesa boogie makes their cabinets logos from?
I'm thinking about attaching the red cable to the negative terminal and the black to the positive. Sometimes I just feel like shaking hands with danger.
Will this work on aluminum 7075 - T6?
So how do you get different colors like red?
how many 9v batteries can you stack before the insulation breaks down?
Electroboom did a video on it. I think he got up to a few thousand volts before you could hear it crackling and popping. Whatever 2000 divided by 9 is should be the answer.
Does this work on stainless steel?
Kind of, it can be anodized, but the color won't change like it does with titanium
@@j-davis7290
That’s absolute nonsense, you can not anodise steel and definitely not stainless steel.
@@Whateverpoopiepants You don't know what anodisation is lmao
Alrady Watched it barry
Brake pedal?
You mean Bike pedal ??
No, it’s neither because it’s a foot peg
is this working?
“I tell you hwat bobby”
Thanks for the educational short, sorry if this came off as mean lol. Might anodize something myself here pretty soon
How to fade the color?
what if you put titanium in a lazer cutting machine set to much tinner than the piece would that flame ano it?
You can laser color titanium, yes. It's all about controlling oxide thickness. Heat coloring is slightly different in that you don't get quite as uniform a layer, and I don't know about how durable it is. This type of anodization is usually rather fragile and easy to scrape off.
Thats a good idea for a quick 54 volts
And pretty much the same price as a cheap Chinese power supply that would work better and be adjustable.
This is a terrible idea.
@Whatever sure bud. Your half a amp power supply will only take a month
@@SaltyFarm
I actually do my own electroplating buddy.
I know more than you.
@@Whateverpoopiepants lol! Sure bud
We’re gonna use nothing but still water , baking soda, nine volts batteries and “finger” that sounds like a shovel stirring a barrel😀
Hank hill?
Damit bobby
anodize that tattoo 😂
That's a foot peg not a brake :D
I think u need to watch it again lol
I think you should watch it again, "now we can put our brake pedal our solution" and he puts a foot peg in the solution.
Brakepedal? - lmao
You guys have a multi trillion dollar machines that cut anything with tolerances that dont exist but this you go micky mouse on?
REALLY? TITANIUM?
Who the Frick has random titanium parts around the house that just NEED TO anodize? Try Aluminum!
Aluminum does not change color when anodized. After the surface becomes microporous through anodizing, it can be colored and sealed.