If you are in the process of replacing a phone or tool battery and don't have a recycling option available think about putting them to one side for now. They don't take up much space so if you are able to store them for a while (it may be a year or two depending where you live) they will be able to enter the recycling loop when it becomes possible rather than going to land fill where they're effectively lost.
@@incognitotorpedo42 If I was storing Li batteries I'd assume they were not fully discharged. If the casing corrodes or leaks I'd rather be safe than toasty.
@Donald Kasper Some recycling makes sense, and some doesn't. We should do what makes economic sense, at least. If Home Depot wants to pay for the recycling, it's ok with me. Maybe they make money on it, who knows? Apple recycles iPhones in a clean, automated manner and makes a profit on it.
Ton by ton, the average landfill has more gold than a gold mine, more silver than a silver mine, and now probably more lithium than a lithium mine. I say, mine the landfills!
You make a good point. In developing countries (I live in Panama) there is a lot of activity around land fill sites pulling some of the more obviously usable items from the waste but there is still a lot that is missed. Education of these largely independent and unofficial workers would enable much more to be separated.
First tap them for methane and make electricity from it, negating about 7/8ths of the methane's greenhouse effect. Then, yeah, send the remains for resource recovery.
landfills are a completely backward solution. they are a pure failure. civilization will have to develop 100% reuse of all of its components, so that there is no throwing away of anything. we will need a steady state population , steady state economy and agriculture. increasing diversity of production, and introducing new methods and products, can continue, but total resource use measured in electricity production, fresh water use, must be stable, with the rate of return of fresh water to the enviroment exactly balanced with the amount of fresh water taken in. resources are not to be plundered, but managed. so crude oil use should match the rate that new crude oil is created in the earths crust. not a lot. so 99% needs to stay in the ground.
@@mercurywoodrose of course you're right about landfills and an equilibrium future, we're just talking here about existing landfills and the many more that will be created before we turn this planet around.
Something else all these scarce resource production enterprises really need to do is maintain constant public list of actuarial lifetimes given known technologies of all critical components. This is critical not only for the knowledge, but it needs to be there to begin to educate the populace about the dynamics of these things.
Keeping lithium ion batteries 30-80% charged makes them last up to 5X longer in terms of calendar life // easy way to charge for 20-40 min at a time //
In India, Tata Chemicals had launched a Li-ion Battery Recycling Facility in 2019. I really hope earth becomes more liveable, by initiatives like these 😅
Good to hear Anshuman and no doubt a whole chain of human dismantlers without any kind of protection. Tata vehicels also makes a car that runs on compressed air, 120 miles per tank, wouldn't they actually be better than the battery car and do they sell many?
@@petergambier ,that is still in development phase.... That concept is also amazing.... hopefully it will compete the electric vehicles. (Especially for public transport)
It's all economics, only when it gets more expensive to mine a product than it is to reprocess do we actually think about "recycling". So when your local garbage company start thumping their chest claiming how much they recycle... it's because they found someone to buy their garbage. And as we've seen in recent years some of those purchasers of garbage don't want it anymore.
It's sooo hard getting ppl into that mindset. Even my family. I often watch as they just causally throw everything they use & brought in the trash despite literally walking by recycling. & Also I watch as ppl literally throw things in the streets without a 2nd thought I know a lot of research & investments goes into products but, Honestly the world should consider the full life of products that we produce & use. Start to End of life. & Possibly creating more incentives or motivations for full recycling of all products for people, towns & companies for will we produce, buy & dispose of starting at the the design. But I know it's way easier said than done.
@@pear7828 The worst thing is that some countries don't recycle everything as they should be. They only recycle things that are profitable and send the rest to third world countries. Which gets dumped in land fills.
I actually have a family friend that has a business in the battery recycling industry here in Canada. Collecting mountains of cellphone batteries, sorting and packaging them up for larger scale recycling. I am constantly picking there brains for all the info you’ve put together here!! Good job!!
I adore your research skills. I am writing my bachelor thesis right now about the cost of lithium for LiB. I am having difficult times to finish it. Just to research the content of this video had to take a lot of time. Great job.
Very good the idea behind that comprehensive shredder leading to later separation. Have long thought London waste would profit by application of same principle: barge collection points on Thames - down the tide to Barking flats, back up the tide for more. Triple layered green housed conveyor belts for miles to centrifuge and other separators - powered by tide also. So much in way of value back.
Lol, so much investment is done for this when nuclear sector been asking for privileges to get investment in already known method. I can't wait for the environmentalist criticizing ITER for using lithium as a fuel source.
@@mmmk6322 I am definitely pro nuclear. But with lithium batteries being recycled efficiently and maybe it's capacity being pushed further electric cars may become very viable as an alternative to combustion engine powered ones. They can then be charged with nuclear power;)
Since I am still trying to implement Windyday Concept, this is one of the most valuable videos you have made. I've been following the battery field for over 15 years, they have been concerned from the beginning to have recycling in mind. And the fossil fuel lobby has been going crazy trying to pollute the average person's mind with false information. And they do a much better job, unfortunately since they have a huge machine behind them. You have told the truth about lithium and batteries. Maybe it would be useful to also tell the truth about fossil fuels, especially petroleum products. Fossil fuels are NOT recycled. 0%. Nada. Nothing. In fact, by burning them, they hang around for centuries. There is a little thing called Global Warming, and you have many videos about this subject. Great Job.
@LazicStefan And how is that working out for humanity with global warming presently at 1.1 degrees celsius and at current rate predicted to reach around 5 degrees in 2100 which would mean total climate collapse.
And how is that working out for humanity with global warming presently at 1.1 degrees celsius and at current rate predicted to reach around 5 degrees in 2100 which would mean total climate collapse.
Huge amounts of Pb (Lead) and Al (Aluminum) are recycled now. Lead mostly now from ICE auto batteries and aluminum from containers. I'm sure that Li (Lithium) will find a viable recycling scheme and join Pb, Al, and Fe as major recycled materials. We just have to give it some time to develop.
Had to Sub as soon as you pointed out that it was a finite resource. To many "global warners" are to biased regarding this and your unbiased approach is a breath of fresh air. The question I still have is what is the actual energy and resource cost to recycle lithium?
What a refreshing presentation of what as far as I can make out are unembellished facts. Compliments and lucky enough to have received this recommendation by YT now subscribed.
Recycling of batteries is one of those things nobody really talks about. When I've seen it mentioned in relation to BEVs, for example, it's only as a side note and not really expanded upon as much. Most people just jump on the next bandwagon of new trends, like BEVs, without really investigating the full lifecycle impact, and I understand that... not everybody knows what's behind the final products we see in front of our eyes. But that's why I appreciate this channel so much - system thinking. I'm so glad these businesses are starting to take battery recycling seriously and I look forward to seeing many more and much more interest in this market.
Thanks very interesting. One thing I do know from personal experience is the recycling industry is hugely innovative, when the waste material is available in quantity and a financial return is possible, then recycling will happen. It may take Gov initiatives to make the finance possible, eg landfill tax etc. I have operated inert shredding plants, they take a lot of maintenance, and nitrogen,but there are a huge number of separation technologies for the shredded material, magnetic, eddy current, flotation, optical etc. Recycling will happen.
Most "innovation" centers around legal loopholes, secret shipping to other countries and other shenanigans. Just like waste disposal has always been rife with organised crime, so is recycling. Criminals simply don't accept that saving the planet is more important than getting rich.
Sounds like there are companies working on a more direct process of filtering out the Lithium and not require the evaporation salt ponds that will be much faster and not require all that water. Existing process was developed a long time ago and until recently, no R&D was spent on improving mining since the market was small.
Electrowinning similar to electroplating, using direct current to put coulombic pressure on the fluid to pull metal ions with specificity to either the anode or cathode //
Selective extraction technology for metal ions is an interesting and sophisticated field which should provide a revolution in lithium production in the medium term. Electrowinning is not a significant component of the leading technologies.
THANK YOU for this much needed update on the whole but-what-about-tha-batteries question. I will gladly post this vid to shut up the more vulgar comments about EVs actually being worse than ICEs of which there are still far too many.
Good on you Till. And also tell them that the EV / ICE car comparison is much more in favour of EV's than VW suggest because they base their lifetime usage on the recharging being done with electricity supplied by coal and gas. As more and more renewables come on line, that will reduce significantly.
Former Tesla Engineer, Ryan Melsert, has joined American Battery Metals Corp and was the winner of the Greentown Labs Circularity Challenge for his Battery Recycling Technology. $ABML has a head start on Redwood.
What a great collection of information, and well stitched together. So glad to see Australia has some wheels turning in the direction of recycling. I hated watching the Leaf cells getting crunched.
There's a Canadian company called American Maganese that has patented, zero environmental impact, recycling process. They have a pilot plant and so far they reported 92% extraction from batteries. So that's pretty good for a plant in continuous operation.
@@Jay...777 A deregulated private sector response has resulted in a 99% recycling rate for lead-acid car batteries. (Not that I'm opposed to regulation per se.)
@@Jay...777 A deregulated private sector is what produced the majority of all green technologies, regulations are what caused idiotic ones to be used (like windmills). Nuclear power is the cleanest, safest, and CHEAPEST, power source by far. Its twice as safe as even solar panels INCLUDING alll of the lives affected by nuclear powerplant accidents. Because its the cheapest the private market would have switched to nuclear power a long time ago if it wasnt for government officials. Government officials thinking they make a difference are a joke, they are the only reason coal and oil are still a problem. Lmao.
@@jonathanbauer2988 Nuclear power certainly isn't the cheapest. The renewables companies are already signing power purchase agreements with utilities for less cost per kWh than nuclear or fossil fuel power plants. The utilities are not in the business of losing money so they're writing off the old nuclear and fossil fuel power plants as 'stranded assets' that are losing money and have become liabilities. In their place there are being built solar and wind farms along with battery storage. The sun is setting on the big thermal power plants. They'll all be gone in a few decades. And so will the fossil fuel companies if they don't refocus their business on renewables.
You can also check Lithion Recycling here in Quebec, Canada, which also has developed a process for recycling lithium batteries up to 95%, and they also have a first processing plant in construction.
@Just have a think: Question: why is it an issue if you use water from rivers and direct it to saltpans when it is finally evaporated again and gets over the air back into the river? Alternative usage at that location for river water is food (corn&cows) where water also ends up either in the food or is evaporated as well. So it is not about water preservation but about local usage. So what is the real issue? People who work at the lithium facilities can buy food instead of farming it. That's what most people in the UK are doing.
just have a Think - JAPAN has had Closed Loop Recycling for a DECADE now. TOKYO bay is out of Landfill space , and its Current one it its LAST one. JAPAN has total Recycling. it Compels its people to SORT Recycleables from TRASH and collects them. Glass is sorted in 6 types , Plastics are sorted in 15 kinds , did you know the Plastic Bottle caps are a Diffrent kind of Plastic than the Bottle itself ? Japan even Recycles the bottle caps and the Labels too. Japan uses lots of STEEL for Drink Containers as well as Aluminium. and metals are Sorted as well. Japan has SEPERATE Recycling for ALL KINDS of Batteries , from Disposable cells to car batteries to Consumer Electronics batteries. Japan has the LARGEST Community based Recyclng programs in the WORLD. Japan , even invented the 5 R's to Recycling , we all know Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle. but, Japan adds REFUSE - to refuse Extra Packaging , and Bring your own Bag or Container to the MEAT or FISH counter. and Japan also adds REPAIR !!!!!! Japanese waste management Collect unwanted Household items and Technology. they are Inspected and are REPAIRED for FREE and sold to a RETAIL Customer at COST !!!!!!!!!! these Japanese THRIFT Shops are Popular with Students and NEW Workers . AMERICA and the UK needs this !!!!!!!!
America had a vibrant radio and TV repair business until the Japanese company sold their TVs below cost in the US and destroyed the repair business. The Matsushita Company sold the TVs to Japanese consumers at higher cost to pay for the losses in the US. They were caught and fined $150 million.
@@Jay...777 I think XR is a bit off with that motto. When hope fades, people give up. That's what really happens. When there's hope, people jump up and say "great, let's do it!"
Your videos are much appreciated. As you said there is a finite limit to everything- especially clean water. Although recycling uses less energy than extraction of the elements from primary mother load, the ultimate need for both is cheaper energy. Currently, probably the most efficient way to extend recycliability of resources is to produce the energy required through recently developed modular molten salt energy converters using liquid Thorium salt. Thorium is not a rare element and being fertile rather than fissile with its extremely long half-life, makes it relatively safe to mine, especially as it is usually the major waste product of mining the heavier rare earths. This not only can give us a win-win situation but by using it as a fertile liquid salt it is also capable of consuming current nuclear waste in the process reducing storage life from tens of thousands of years to only 300 years required for the Strontium 90 and Caesium 137 which is safely captured as a non volatile salt. All this is done by burning up 99.5% of the fuel used compared with the current LWR using less than 5% leaving more than 95% as "nuclear waste" created with the current 60 year old design with its potentially dangerous high pressure light water reactors (LWR) currently in use, (because their manufacturers could make more profit keeping it that way). Please include MSR when considering ways to reduce coal pollution..🥝🥝🙏
Here is the reason why Indonesia is developing 7×500MWe Liquid metal Thorium ion molten sodium fluoride salt burner reactors with capitalised cost of $1/Watt; fuel cost 0.5cents/kWh at a consumer price of less than 7cents/KWh according to their PPA and has a 43kW/m^2 foot print for a 180m × 65m 500MWe plant ..or as a base loader 375MWh/m^2/annum. An impossible task for Solar & wind farms. How about analysing these alternative solutions?🥝🥝🙏 ruclips.net/video/rZx7kwZo4hQ/видео.html
Thank you. It's so refreshing to hear a well researched and talented RUclipsr, without the obnoxious and loud dialogue. Almost ASMR like. Please never change your style my brother. And thank you for entertaining and sharing.
There’s another company in Australia that has been in the lithium battery recycling for some time. There separation system is patented. By the way I like the information you share in your videos. I have been a part of a research group into power generation and we have a new system for generation of power. It can not be classified as a generator. Because it converts energy into electricity. I would love to share this with you as we are looking for to hopefully begin to manufacture in the next six months.
I've been watching your channel a while...Didn't know about your stance on funding. How refreshing to see this in a successful channel. You could earn a fair amount with these viewing figures I'm sure. Good on you mate. Very Impressed......
New processes are being developed for direct lithium extraction from lithium-rich brine aquifers which allows the lithium depleted brine to be re-injected into the aquifer, thus eliminating the need for additional water or the land for evaporation ponds, while maintaining the aquifer pressure to avoid effects on other potable water aquifers.. e.g. E3 Metals membrane process. Many such lithium-rich brine aquifers are associated with fossil fuel reservoirs. e.g. Alberta Canada, which does not even show on the global aquifer map in the video, yet the Leduc Reservoir alone hosts lithium-enriched brine with 6.7 million tonnes lithium carbonate equivalent (LCE) which can support a 50,000-tonne lithium hydroxide operation for up to 35 years.
I last heard (5 years ago) they need around 10,000 m³ of water production to make a profit. I wonder if the tech has been developed enough to make a profit on a smaller quantity of water? Another fun fact, spilling 100m³ of this water can easily cost 1 million to clean up.
The third route for LIB recycling is direct recycling. In direct recycling, the cathode and anode recycled and not destroyed as in the case for pyro- and hydrometallurgy. Another interesting area is the recovery of electrolytes, which is lost in both pyro- and hydrometallurgy.
@@JustHaveaThink I never imagined you would read, much less respond to my silly little comment! I'm a bit embarrassed to bother you with such an unimportant thing.... I do think you have a unique way of doing it. It's like a trademark style thing from my perspective. I rarely notice it in other people. It has an engaging effect. I hope you don't worry about it! I'd hate for it to interfere with your excellent work. :)
Thanks. As various processes are developed for recycling different materials, we'll obviously get better & better at it. If these things can be done on a truly industrial scale, they may even become profitable. I've been saying since the 80s, that we need really large-scale operations to dig in (literally, in some cases) and extract reusable materials from everything from landfills to seawater. [With fresh water set to become the oil of the 21st century, that's going to be crucial.] Seawater could - in theory - be 'mined' for salts, lithium, deuterium, tritium, radioactives, trace amounts of minerals, tiny precious gems (including diamonds) for many purposes, and other things; and, of course, fresh water itself. One could even have samples of it sent off to various bio-labs looking for novel life forms, or just to do some chemistry or biology. Even landfills could be subjected to these industrial grinding up & separating processes. More general-purpose equipment, and computer controls will help immensely. Can you imagine a market in which big corporations compete for the right to clean up a landfill?!? I like that. tavi.
It sounds like American Battery Technology Company out of Nevada will be able to recycle the actual EV batteries themselves which apparently is complex. Ryan Melsert, a former tesla R&D manager of battery materials and energy systems is CTO currently. Might be worth looking into them for more info on this.
Great Tesla Battery Day post from Robert Cain: So many people blowing right past the environmental impact reduction of this announcement. Massive water usage reductions in ore processing. Massive increase in recycled materials. Increase in abundant and easy to access materials like natural silicon instead of synthetic materials or graphite. The DBE process eliminates industrial solvents that are expensive and toxic. The end to end process has nailed “Faster, Better, Cheaper”. This is an engineering hat trick. Its remarkable.
Recycling is an absolute must in ALL areas of manufacturing including lithium. Like nuclear power plants in the US, some of the funds accumulated from selling electricity is channeled into to a power plant decommission fund which also includes any recycling. All manufacturing should be setup on a similar model particularly with plastics.
Did you ever discuss Nickel-Iron batteries yet? If I'm not mistaken I read/watched they can last up to 100 years or even more with topping up (simple easy to make fluid). For home & office/factory solar storage use they seem so great, rarely ever need recycling.
Lithium-ion batteries contain a relatively small amount of Li, the real value in them are Cobalt (~35000USD/t) and Nickel (~25000USD/t). Nowadays most of the batteries are LiCoO2 (lithium-cobalt oxide) type , however in electric cars the Ni-Mn-Co batteries are becoming dominant. These contain far less Co and much more Ni, especially newer ones. Still, main the targets for recycling are the Ni and Co. Most recycling processes recover metallic Co and Ni by either smelting the black mass together with ore based raw materials or by hydro-electrometallurgy, or both. The latter involves dissolution in acid, than solution purification, separating the metals by solvent extraction than the pure solution is electrolyzed, producing pure metal - which is expensive - thus worthwhile to produce. However, for new battery production, their high purity salts are more than sufficient. Thus the actual reduction of the compound into the metal can be avoided. Lithium -if recycled at all by the facilities- can be recovered only as a salt, which is an ionized form of the Li , such as Lithium-carbonate. It is not Lithium, but a compound of Lithium. It's recovery usually involves heating the Li bearing alkaline solution to near boiling point, than introducing carbonate ions to the solution and precipiattiong LiCO3. This may sound simple, but it is rather costly. To produce Li metal, either aluminothermic reduction at ~1200-1400°C is required or the electrolysis of Li bearing molten salts.
You might want to keep an eye out for a company called Redwood Industries with regards to battery recycling. They are based in the USA and are in dark mode at the moment but I'm guessing they will be heavily mentioned and detailed in Tesla's upcoming battery day on the 22nd September.
im a small ewaste collector. i have found that Li-ion batteries are generally difficult to dispose of and they get sent to the dump/landfill. it would be good if there was some intl program where ppl were paid for their Li-ion batteries- this will provide the incentive to not just dump them. currently, the only ppl i have found who want used Li-ion batteries are those who do 3D printing.
Laptop, smartphone, electronics, lithium ion batteries can be recycled at any Batteries + Bulbs all across America FYI // Battery electric vehicle batteries & large format lithium tend to have other pathways for recycling through dealers etc // Technically nearly everything can be recycled, upcycled, refurbished, restored, scrapped, broken down, parted out, built up, modified, customized, so many options :)
There should be a law forcing companies to provide detailed plans/instructions on how to recycle everything they produce. We need to force them to take responsability for their products AFTER their lifecycle. Or even a tax incentive, making it economically unviable to not invest in recycling or even repairng.
You say this like these companies are some sort of alien entity. These companies are owned by stockholders (us) and their costs are passed onto the consumer (us). How much more are you willing to pay for the implementation of this idea? How much less would you be willing to earn from your investment? The point is that companies aren’t some form of evil enemy. They respond to market forces which is a much better way to promote change than laws.
Interesting to revisit this again after a couple of years and seeing the massive drive to build recycling capability given the ballooning demand for these minerals coupled with strategic supply chain interests
Unless the US decides to ivade Australia, I think we are ok. Which ever way you look at it, espeshially with recycling, Lithium is never going to do as much damage as oil has done.
I have been reading about UK Environmental Land Management (E.L.M) policy. Does this have the potential to use soil enrichment to suck up carbon? Can you have a think please? :)
If you are in the process of replacing a phone or tool battery and don't have a recycling option available think about putting them to one side for now. They don't take up much space so if you are able to store them for a while (it may be a year or two depending where you live) they will be able to enter the recycling loop when it becomes possible rather than going to land fill where they're effectively lost.
Home Depot takes Li-ion tool batteries for recycling.
Also please store them safely. No combustibles and no water nearby. No flammable liquids nearby.
@@SocialDownclimber I've never seen a discharged Li-ion cell have a thermal runaway. Is that even possible?
@@incognitotorpedo42 If I was storing Li batteries I'd assume they were not fully discharged. If the casing corrodes or leaks I'd rather be safe than toasty.
@Donald Kasper Some recycling makes sense, and some doesn't. We should do what makes economic sense, at least. If Home Depot wants to pay for the recycling, it's ok with me. Maybe they make money on it, who knows? Apple recycles iPhones in a clean, automated manner and makes a profit on it.
Ton by ton, the average landfill has more gold than a gold mine, more silver than a silver mine, and now probably more lithium than a lithium mine.
I say, mine the landfills!
You make a good point. In developing countries (I live in Panama) there is a lot of activity around land fill sites pulling some of the more obviously usable items from the waste but there is still a lot that is missed. Education of these largely independent and unofficial workers would enable much more to be separated.
First tap them for methane and make electricity from it, negating about 7/8ths of the methane's greenhouse effect. Then, yeah, send the remains for resource recovery.
That will probably be true in future, where people end up mining our landfills for depleted resources.
landfills are a completely backward solution. they are a pure failure. civilization will have to develop 100% reuse of all of its components, so that there is no throwing away of anything. we will need a steady state population , steady state economy and agriculture. increasing diversity of production, and introducing new methods and products, can continue, but total resource use measured in electricity production, fresh water use, must be stable, with the rate of return of fresh water to the enviroment exactly balanced with the amount of fresh water taken in. resources are not to be plundered, but managed. so crude oil use should match the rate that new crude oil is created in the earths crust. not a lot. so 99% needs to stay in the ground.
@@mercurywoodrose of course you're right about landfills and an equilibrium future, we're just talking here about existing landfills and the many more that will be created before we turn this planet around.
Something else all these scarce resource production enterprises really need to do is maintain constant public list of actuarial lifetimes given known technologies of all critical components. This is critical not only for the knowledge, but it needs to be there to begin to educate the populace about the dynamics of these things.
Keeping lithium ion batteries 30-80% charged makes them last up to 5X longer in terms of calendar life // easy way to charge for 20-40 min at a time //
@Donald Kasper
You don't know what you are talking about.
Had a nerdy little chuckle at the x-axis label in the first graph: "Mileage (in kilometers)".
No go and rip Mars a part.
There is bound to be some tonnage expressed in pounds somewhere.
**laughs in crash course**
Is kiloage a word?
@@AZOffRoadster No. But in french "métrage" is.
In India, Tata Chemicals had launched a Li-ion Battery Recycling Facility in 2019.
I really hope earth becomes more liveable, by initiatives like these 😅
This is probably the reason why is India so energy clean.
@@Helloverlord not yet. it is developing.
Good to hear Anshuman and no doubt a whole chain of human dismantlers without any kind of protection. Tata vehicels also makes a car that runs on compressed air, 120 miles per tank, wouldn't they actually be better than the battery car and do they sell many?
@@petergambier ,that is still in development phase.... That concept is also amazing.... hopefully it will compete the electric vehicles. (Especially for public transport)
@@anshumansahu5485, but this was about 3 years ago, seems a pity to not push that forward as a concept. Thanks for replying, all the best from the UK.
Your voice is always relaxed, yet passionate. Great to listen to, Cheers Mr Attenborough.
We need to think of our garbage as raw materials, not waste.
Currenty we're throwing away 95% of nuclear fuel - UNUSED - and call it 'waste'.
I would say recycling is another industrial revolution which some countries failed to look into.
It's all economics, only when it gets more expensive to mine a product than it is to reprocess do we actually think about "recycling". So when your local garbage company start thumping their chest claiming how much they recycle... it's because they found someone to buy their garbage. And as we've seen in recent years some of those purchasers of garbage don't want it anymore.
It's sooo hard getting ppl into that mindset. Even my family. I often watch as they just causally throw everything they use & brought in the trash despite literally walking by recycling. & Also I watch as ppl literally throw things in the streets without a 2nd thought
I know a lot of research & investments goes into products but, Honestly the world should consider the full life of products that we produce & use. Start to End of life. & Possibly creating more incentives or motivations for full recycling of all products for people, towns & companies for will we produce, buy & dispose of starting at the the design.
But I know it's way easier said than done.
@@pear7828 The worst thing is that some countries don't recycle everything as they should be. They only recycle things that are profitable and send the rest to third world countries. Which gets dumped in land fills.
I actually have a family friend that has a business in the battery recycling industry here in Canada. Collecting mountains of cellphone batteries, sorting and packaging them up for larger scale recycling. I am constantly picking there brains for all the info you’ve put together here!! Good job!!
i am in Canada and am interested could you post a link?
Our Cat Troy Seekandis I am also interested in a contact that could help me with recycling...please send contact details if possible
@Our Cat Troy Seekandis From Ottawa here; can you post a link to your friend's facility?
@@lawrencetaylor5407 company is Versocet Solutions Inc.
The thought I'll share, is that you are bloody brilliant! 👌👍🏾💓
Wow, thank you!
I adore your research skills. I am writing my bachelor thesis right now about the cost of lithium for LiB. I am having difficult times to finish it. Just to research the content of this video had to take a lot of time. Great job.
I think I like your podcast best over all others - no interrupting adds but very informative. Thanks !
Very good the idea behind that comprehensive shredder leading to later separation.
Have long thought London waste would profit by application of same principle: barge collection points on Thames - down the tide to Barking flats, back up the tide for more.
Triple layered green housed conveyor belts for miles to centrifuge and other separators - powered by tide also. So much in way of value back.
This is good news. Recycling is key for a sustainable future.
No, not buying too much crap we don't need is the key.
No, both are
@@sergior. No Neither No No No (sound like Amy Winehouse & look what happened to her).
Lol, so much investment is done for this when nuclear sector been asking for privileges to get investment in already known method.
I can't wait for the environmentalist criticizing ITER for using lithium as a fuel source.
@@mmmk6322 I am definitely pro nuclear. But with lithium batteries being recycled efficiently and maybe it's capacity being pushed further electric cars may become very viable as an alternative to combustion engine powered ones. They can then be charged with nuclear power;)
Love your videos: calm, unbiased, SUPER informative and understandable. Thank you for all your vulgarisation videos
I like his voice. So calming and so british
Was just thinking the same thing..
Since I am still trying to implement Windyday Concept, this is one of the most valuable videos you have made. I've been following the battery field for over 15 years, they have been concerned from the beginning to have recycling in mind. And the fossil fuel lobby has been going crazy trying to pollute the average person's mind with false information. And they do a much better job, unfortunately since they have a huge machine behind them.
You have told the truth about lithium and batteries. Maybe it would be useful to also tell the truth about fossil fuels, especially petroleum products.
Fossil fuels are NOT recycled. 0%. Nada. Nothing. In fact, by burning them, they hang around for centuries. There is a little thing called Global Warming, and you have many videos about this subject.
Great Job.
Not so. Fossil fuels are 100% recyclable ...just takes a few millions years or more.
@LazicStefan And how is that working out for humanity with global warming presently at 1.1 degrees celsius and at current rate predicted to reach around 5 degrees in 2100 which would mean total climate collapse.
And how is that working out for humanity with global warming presently at 1.1 degrees celsius and at current rate predicted to reach around 5 degrees in 2100 which would mean total climate collapse.
C02 plus photosynthesis is tasty.
Thanks Lawrence.
Huge amounts of Pb (Lead) and Al (Aluminum) are recycled now. Lead mostly now from ICE auto batteries and aluminum from containers. I'm sure that Li (Lithium) will find a viable recycling scheme and join Pb, Al, and Fe as major recycled materials. We just have to give it some time to develop.
Nice episode, mate! Thanks for spreading the good news.
Superb! I will pass this along to our Town EV task force and the local Zero Waste committee. I am sure they will be delighted by it.
Thanks for all the work I never get to see you do. You do a great job.
Love your delivery
GREAT WORK ! GREAT PROGRAM AND VERY PLESANT TO FOLLOW . BIG THANKS !
Had to Sub as soon as you pointed out that it was a finite resource. To many "global warners" are to biased regarding this and your unbiased approach is a breath of fresh air. The question I still have is what is the actual energy and resource cost to recycle lithium?
What a refreshing presentation of what as far as I can make out are unembellished facts. Compliments and lucky enough to have received this recommendation by YT now subscribed.
Recycling of batteries is one of those things nobody really talks about. When I've seen it mentioned in relation to BEVs, for example, it's only as a side note and not really expanded upon as much. Most people just jump on the next bandwagon of new trends, like BEVs, without really investigating the full lifecycle impact, and I understand that... not everybody knows what's behind the final products we see in front of our eyes. But that's why I appreciate this channel so much - system thinking. I'm so glad these businesses are starting to take battery recycling seriously and I look forward to seeing many more and much more interest in this market.
Always a good listen. 👍
I had always wondered about the costs involved in electric vehicle production.
This video gave a great breakdown of the batteries.
I was always curious as to what happened at the end for lithium batteries and you did a great job explaining it.
Great, calm, balanced view. Watched one video and subscribed. Would love to hear some interviews with some of these start up companies.
Beautiful video. Thanks for the upload!
Thanks very interesting. One thing I do know from personal experience is the recycling industry is hugely innovative, when the waste material is available in quantity and a financial return is possible, then recycling will happen. It may take Gov initiatives to make the finance possible, eg landfill tax etc.
I have operated inert shredding plants, they take a lot of maintenance, and nitrogen,but there are a huge number of separation technologies for the shredded material, magnetic, eddy current, flotation, optical etc. Recycling will happen.
Taxes ,more now than ever.
Most "innovation" centers around legal loopholes, secret shipping to other countries and other shenanigans. Just like waste disposal has always been rife with organised crime, so is recycling. Criminals simply don't accept that saving the planet is more important than getting rich.
Sounds like there are companies working on a more direct process of filtering out the Lithium and not require the evaporation salt ponds that will be much faster and not require all that water. Existing process was developed a long time ago and until recently, no R&D was spent on improving mining since the market was small.
Electrowinning similar to electroplating, using direct current to put coulombic pressure on the fluid to pull metal ions with specificity to either the anode or cathode //
Selective extraction technology for metal ions is an interesting and sophisticated field which should provide a revolution in lithium production in the medium term. Electrowinning is not a significant component of the leading technologies.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. 👍
Thank you ! You are FANTASTIC .
Brilliantly researched
Great video and content. Very important. I am very interested in further updates. Many thanks
Good job on the video. Have downloaded your app as well!
LOL "RUclips somewhat random search algorithm" you said it man :)
THANK YOU for this much needed update on the whole but-what-about-tha-batteries question. I will gladly post this vid to shut up the more vulgar comments about EVs actually being worse than ICEs of which there are still far too many.
Good on you Till. And also tell them that the EV / ICE car comparison is much more in favour of EV's than VW suggest because they base their lifetime usage on the recharging being done with electricity supplied by coal and gas. As more and more renewables come on line, that will reduce significantly.
@@JustHaveaThink sure thing ; )
Recycling is very important. Miss you next Sunday. Thanks 😊
Former Tesla Engineer, Ryan Melsert, has joined American Battery Metals Corp and was the winner of the Greentown Labs Circularity Challenge for his Battery Recycling Technology. $ABML has a head start on Redwood.
Thank you very much for the information.
I know this isn’t your intention but what I learn from your videos gives me just a little bit of hope for the future.
That news made my day really brighter
I just subscribed to this channel for my mental health.
What a great collection of information, and well stitched together. So glad to see Australia has some wheels turning in the direction of recycling. I hated watching the Leaf cells getting crunched.
There's a Canadian company called American Maganese that has patented, zero environmental impact, recycling process. They have a pilot plant and so far they reported 92% extraction from batteries. So that's pretty good for a plant in continuous operation.
Interesting, like to see a video about the costs and emissions from manufacturing and running these recycling facilities....
Thank you for this video. A lot of people do not know this about Lithium
A great show thanks
Two of the cofounders of Tesla have started a battery recycling company, Redwood.
@@Jay...777 A deregulated private sector response has resulted in a 99% recycling rate for lead-acid car batteries. (Not that I'm opposed to regulation per se.)
@@Jay...777 Why is lead dangerous? Who avtively looks for a lead as a food source? Its so high because you get over £10 per battery.
@@Jay...777 A deregulated private sector is what produced the majority of all green technologies, regulations are what caused idiotic ones to be used (like windmills). Nuclear power is the cleanest, safest, and CHEAPEST, power source by far. Its twice as safe as even solar panels INCLUDING alll of the lives affected by nuclear powerplant accidents. Because its the cheapest the private market would have switched to nuclear power a long time ago if it wasnt for government officials. Government officials thinking they make a difference are a joke, they are the only reason coal and oil are still a problem. Lmao.
@@jonathanbauer2988
Nuclear power certainly isn't the cheapest. The renewables companies are already signing power purchase agreements with utilities for less cost per kWh than nuclear or fossil fuel power plants. The utilities are not in the business of losing money so they're writing off the old nuclear and fossil fuel power plants as 'stranded assets' that are losing money and have become liabilities. In their place there are being built solar and wind farms along with battery storage. The sun is setting on the big thermal power plants. They'll all be gone in a few decades. And so will the fossil fuel companies if they don't refocus their business on renewables.
Stranded fossil fueled assets:
www.greenbiz.com/article/growing-concern-over-stranded-assets
You can also check Lithion Recycling here in Quebec, Canada, which also has developed a process for recycling lithium batteries up to 95%, and they also have a first processing plant in construction.
@Just have a think: Question: why is it an issue if you use water from rivers and direct it to saltpans when it is finally evaporated again and gets over the air back into the river?
Alternative usage at that location for river water is food (corn&cows) where water also ends up either in the food or is evaporated as well. So it is not about water preservation but about local usage.
So what is the real issue? People who work at the lithium facilities can buy food instead of farming it. That's what most people in the UK are doing.
just have a Think - JAPAN has had Closed Loop Recycling for a DECADE now.
TOKYO bay is out of Landfill space , and its Current one it its LAST one.
JAPAN has total Recycling. it Compels its people to SORT Recycleables from TRASH and collects them.
Glass is sorted in 6 types , Plastics are sorted in 15 kinds , did you know the Plastic Bottle caps are a Diffrent kind of Plastic than the Bottle itself ? Japan even Recycles the bottle caps and the Labels too.
Japan uses lots of STEEL for Drink Containers as well as Aluminium. and metals are Sorted as well.
Japan has SEPERATE Recycling for ALL KINDS of Batteries , from Disposable cells to car batteries to Consumer Electronics batteries.
Japan has the LARGEST Community based Recyclng programs in the WORLD.
Japan , even invented the 5 R's to Recycling , we all know Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle.
but, Japan adds REFUSE - to refuse Extra Packaging , and Bring your own Bag or Container to the MEAT or FISH counter.
and Japan also adds REPAIR !!!!!! Japanese waste management Collect unwanted Household items and Technology.
they are Inspected and are REPAIRED for FREE and sold to a RETAIL Customer at COST !!!!!!!!!!
these Japanese THRIFT Shops are Popular with Students and NEW Workers .
AMERICA and the UK needs this !!!!!!!!
it will either happen, or we will die as a species. and if we dont introduce it soon enough, we will die anyway.
That's good from a country who invented lolly wrappers inside lolly wrappers
America had a vibrant radio and TV repair business until the Japanese company sold their TVs below cost in the US and destroyed the repair business. The Matsushita Company sold the TVs to Japanese consumers at higher cost to pay for the losses in the US. They were caught and fined $150 million.
And Australia..the Govt is all talk little action on legislating change & innovation.
In Japan YOU NEED to recycle, but not in Europa or Americas.
Yes please! An episode on 'Urban Mining' would be appreciated :)
thanks for the hope. i mean it
@@Jay...777 I think XR is a bit off with that motto. When hope fades, people give up. That's what really happens. When there's hope, people jump up and say "great, let's do it!"
Great progress. Thanks
I really needed this today, thank you.
Your videos are much appreciated.
As you said there is a finite limit to everything- especially clean water. Although recycling uses less energy than extraction of the elements from primary mother load, the ultimate need for both is cheaper energy. Currently, probably the most efficient way to extend recycliability of resources is to produce the energy required through recently developed modular molten salt energy converters using liquid Thorium salt. Thorium is not a rare element and being fertile rather than fissile with its extremely long half-life, makes it relatively safe to mine, especially as it is usually the major waste product of mining the heavier rare earths. This not only can give us a win-win situation but by using it as a fertile liquid salt it is also capable of consuming current nuclear waste in the process reducing storage life from tens of thousands of years to only 300 years required for the Strontium 90 and Caesium 137 which is safely captured as a non volatile salt. All this is done by burning up 99.5% of the fuel used compared with the current LWR using less than 5% leaving more than 95% as "nuclear waste" created with the current 60 year old design with its potentially dangerous high pressure light water reactors (LWR) currently in use, (because their manufacturers could make more profit keeping it that way). Please include MSR when considering ways to reduce coal pollution..🥝🥝🙏
Here is the reason why Indonesia is developing 7×500MWe Liquid metal Thorium ion molten sodium fluoride salt burner reactors with capitalised cost of $1/Watt; fuel cost 0.5cents/kWh at a consumer price of less than 7cents/KWh according to their PPA and has a 43kW/m^2 foot print for a 180m × 65m 500MWe plant ..or as a base loader 375MWh/m^2/annum. An impossible task for Solar & wind farms.
How about analysing these alternative solutions?🥝🥝🙏
ruclips.net/video/rZx7kwZo4hQ/видео.html
Great video, thank you.
Love all you videos, thank you!
Really love your content, thanks for making it, it's great to be able to keep up to date with tech, especially the green tech.
Glad you enjoy it!
Thank you.
Thank you. It's so refreshing to hear a well researched and talented RUclipsr, without the obnoxious and loud dialogue. Almost ASMR like. Please never change your style my brother. And thank you for entertaining and sharing.
Bless you Charlie. I really appreciate that :-)
There’s another company in Australia that has been in the lithium battery recycling for some time. There separation system is patented.
By the way I like the information you share in your videos.
I have been a part of a research group into power generation and we have a new system for generation of power. It can not be classified as a generator. Because it converts energy into electricity.
I would love to share this with you as we are looking for to hopefully begin to manufacture in the next six months.
Hi John. By all means ping over details if you like. Email address is in the 'About' section. Cheers. Dave
Just Have a Think Lithium Australia
Just Have a Think
lithium-au.com/
Brilliant! I love all your videos.
Great coverage very informative
Thank you!
I've been watching your channel a while...Didn't know about your stance on funding. How refreshing to see this in a successful channel. You could earn a fair amount with these viewing figures I'm sure. Good on you mate. Very Impressed......
Sounds great
Great video 👍😀
Thanks for sharing 👍😀
New processes are being developed for direct lithium extraction from lithium-rich brine aquifers which allows the lithium depleted brine to be re-injected into the aquifer, thus eliminating the need for additional water or the land for evaporation ponds, while maintaining the aquifer pressure to avoid effects on other potable water aquifers.. e.g. E3 Metals membrane process. Many such lithium-rich brine aquifers are associated with fossil fuel reservoirs. e.g. Alberta Canada, which does not even show on the global aquifer map in the video, yet the Leduc Reservoir alone hosts lithium-enriched brine with 6.7 million tonnes lithium carbonate equivalent (LCE) which can support a 50,000-tonne lithium hydroxide operation for up to 35 years.
I last heard (5 years ago) they need around 10,000 m³ of water production to make a profit. I wonder if the tech has been developed enough to make a profit on a smaller quantity of water? Another fun fact, spilling 100m³ of this water can easily cost 1 million to clean up.
Sustainability and new shaping of a new economic system are going to be this decades challenges. Thank you for the video. Interesting insights.
Thank you for the info on this issue
Great video
The third route for LIB recycling is direct recycling. In direct recycling, the cathode and anode recycled and not destroyed as in the case for pyro- and hydrometallurgy.
Another interesting area is the recovery of electrolytes, which is lost in both pyro- and hydrometallurgy.
Love your work! I'm also dying to know what's off to your right that you keep looking at between statements! :D
Hello old man. I really think it is not unusual for someone to glance sideways while they are preparing for their next thought??
@@JustHaveaThink I never imagined you would read, much less respond to my silly little comment! I'm a bit embarrassed to bother you with such an unimportant thing....
I do think you have a unique way of doing it. It's like a trademark style thing from my perspective. I rarely notice it in other people. It has an engaging effect. I hope you don't worry about it! I'd hate for it to interfere with your excellent work. :)
Thank You For your efforts 🙏
Thanks again for an excellent lesson!
Thanks. As various processes are developed for recycling different materials, we'll obviously get better & better at it. If these things can be done on a truly industrial scale, they may even become profitable. I've been saying since the 80s, that we need really large-scale operations to dig in (literally, in some cases) and extract reusable materials from everything from landfills to seawater. [With fresh water set to become the oil of the 21st century, that's going to be crucial.] Seawater could - in theory - be 'mined' for salts, lithium, deuterium, tritium, radioactives, trace amounts of minerals, tiny precious gems (including diamonds) for many purposes, and other things; and, of course, fresh water itself. One could even have samples of it sent off to various bio-labs looking for novel life forms, or just to do some chemistry or biology. Even landfills could be subjected to these industrial grinding up & separating processes. More general-purpose equipment, and computer controls will help immensely. Can you imagine a market in which big corporations compete for the right to clean up a landfill?!? I like that. tavi.
Another great video, thanks!
It sounds like American Battery Technology Company out of Nevada will be able to recycle the actual EV batteries themselves which apparently is complex. Ryan Melsert, a former tesla R&D manager of battery materials and energy systems is CTO currently. Might be worth looking into them for more info on this.
Great Tesla Battery Day post from Robert Cain: So many people blowing right past the environmental impact reduction of this announcement. Massive water usage reductions in ore processing. Massive increase in recycled materials. Increase in abundant and easy to access materials like natural silicon instead of synthetic materials or graphite. The DBE process eliminates industrial solvents that are expensive and toxic. The end to end process has nailed “Faster, Better, Cheaper”. This is an engineering hat trick. Its remarkable.
great discussion point
👏 👏 Battery recycling will be huge...in due time.
Recycling is an absolute must in ALL areas of manufacturing including lithium. Like nuclear power plants in the US, some of the funds accumulated from selling electricity is channeled into to a power plant decommission fund which also includes any recycling. All manufacturing should be setup on a similar model particularly with plastics.
Did you ever discuss Nickel-Iron batteries yet? If I'm not mistaken I read/watched they can last up to 100 years or even more with topping up (simple easy to make fluid). For home & office/factory solar storage use they seem so great, rarely ever need recycling.
Lithium-ion batteries contain a relatively small amount of Li, the real value in them are Cobalt (~35000USD/t) and Nickel (~25000USD/t). Nowadays most of the batteries are LiCoO2 (lithium-cobalt oxide) type , however in electric cars the Ni-Mn-Co batteries are becoming dominant. These contain far less Co and much more Ni, especially newer ones. Still, main the targets for recycling are the Ni and Co. Most recycling processes recover metallic Co and Ni by either smelting the black mass together with ore based raw materials or by hydro-electrometallurgy, or both. The latter involves dissolution in acid, than solution purification, separating the metals by solvent extraction than the pure solution is electrolyzed, producing pure metal - which is expensive - thus worthwhile to produce. However, for new battery production, their high purity salts are more than sufficient. Thus the actual reduction of the compound into the metal can be avoided. Lithium -if recycled at all by the facilities- can be recovered only as a salt, which is an ionized form of the Li , such as Lithium-carbonate. It is not Lithium, but a compound of Lithium. It's recovery usually involves heating the Li bearing alkaline solution to near boiling point, than introducing carbonate ions to the solution and precipiattiong LiCO3. This may sound simple, but it is rather costly. To produce Li metal, either aluminothermic reduction at ~1200-1400°C is required or the electrolysis of Li bearing molten salts.
You might want to keep an eye out for a company called Redwood Industries with regards to battery recycling. They are based in the USA and are in dark mode at the moment but I'm guessing they will be heavily mentioned and detailed in Tesla's upcoming battery day on the 22nd September.
Hi John. Yes Redwood are well known.
Little more details on extraction appreciated as it is going to be a most sought topic among entrepreneur
Almonds
What aspect? The chemicals needed to extract the seperate metals?
im a small ewaste collector. i have found that Li-ion batteries are generally difficult to dispose of and they get sent to the dump/landfill. it would be good if there was some intl program where ppl were paid for their Li-ion batteries- this will provide the incentive to not just dump them. currently, the only ppl i have found who want used Li-ion batteries are those who do 3D printing.
Laptop, smartphone, electronics, lithium ion batteries can be recycled at any Batteries + Bulbs all across America FYI // Battery electric vehicle batteries & large format lithium tend to have other pathways for recycling through dealers etc //
Technically nearly everything can be recycled, upcycled, refurbished, restored, scrapped, broken down, parted out, built up, modified, customized, so many options :)
Thanks
Have you heard about the Canadian company called Li-Cycle?
Nice to hear that we are also improving this area :-)
There should be a law forcing companies to provide detailed plans/instructions on how to recycle everything they produce. We need to force them to take responsability for their products AFTER their lifecycle. Or even a tax incentive, making it economically unviable to not invest in recycling or even repairng.
You say this like these companies are some sort of alien entity. These companies are owned by stockholders (us) and their costs are passed onto the consumer (us). How much more are you willing to pay for the implementation of this idea? How much less would you be willing to earn from your investment?
The point is that companies aren’t some form of evil enemy. They respond to market forces which is a much better way to promote change than laws.
Great video!
Excellent and interesting!
Love your programming dude :)
Interesting to revisit this again after a couple of years and seeing the massive drive to build recycling capability given the ballooning demand for these minerals coupled with strategic supply chain interests
Unless the US decides to ivade Australia, I think we are ok. Which ever way you look at it, espeshially with recycling, Lithium is never going to do as much damage as oil has done.
I have been reading about UK Environmental Land Management (E.L.M) policy. Does this have the potential to use soil enrichment to suck up carbon? Can you have a think please? :)