A great video and a number of names I hadn't previously come across :).. one factor it would be brilliant to measure would be around "match winning" for a batter that could be tracking the % of times they have recorded their side's highest score of an innings, but for bowlers it could be either tracking the number of top 6 wickets, the number of times they got out the highest run scorer of an innings, or a computation of wickets from players who had an average in the top x% for their era. Not sure if it would change things in this case, however
Kumble had a lot of responsibilities on him. We totally used to rely on him for a test win. He's the one for us Indians. Not by the records but by the situations and legacy.
Rangana Herath might be the most under-rated spinner of all time (not saying he's in the best three or four, but criminally under-rated). Dominated in 4th innings, when you're relying on your spinner to bowl out the opposition and spin your team to victory.
Plus he was sidelined for the majority of his career the same way Stuart Mcgill was. But timing favoured Herath more with the retirement of their clearly superior counterparts. Those two were really extremely unlucky
@@SubhamKumar-tw5yrindia me jada turner tracks 2017-18 ke bdh ban ne lage the Ashwin us se pehle bhi next level kar raha tha test me aur ase too Murli bhi SL ki turning tracks pe hi khela hai wtf
The video clearly puts the whole picture in front of you and forces you to make your own pick. But I must admit Ashwin made me fall in love with Test Cricket! He’s probably the first Indian bowler who made the opposition team, media and experts live in fear before arriving to play the first match of the series
Ashwin in SENA as the narrative goes like he is unlucky not to get picked is true but not the complete truth. Problem with Ashwin is that he does not have a signature innings haul in a SENA Test. It started in Jo'burg Test of 2013 where SA needed 400+ in the final innings and AB and Faf had their 2nd blockathon in 2 years where Ashwin goes wicketless in his 40 overs a very similar result that happened with Lyon in Adelaide 2012(Matthew wade dropped 2 chances) but because Australia did not have any spinner beside Lyon he didn't get replaced whearas Ashwin gets replaced with Jadeja in the next test in Durban where Jadeja gets a 6 fer and for the time being replaced Ashwin as India only Spinner overseas. Ashwin gets his next chance in England in 4th and 5th test where he bowls well gets 3 wickets but due to meek Indian Batting it has no impact whatsoever. Then famously Ashwin gets overlooked for Karn Sharma in the Adelaide test where Nathan Lyon takes 12 wickets and Karn Sharma gets bashed and then in the next 3 tests Ashwin returns(Jadeja is injured) does decently takes 12 wickets but is clearly outshined by Nathan Lyon in the Series. Post that Series Ashwin 2.0 becomes a world beater and is clearly the best spinner in the world and in 2018 SA Series starts out as India only spinner and does decently in the series decided by pace takes 7 wickets with a 4 fer in Centurion and then starts well in England with a match haul of 7 wickets(all left-handers) in the 1st Test but his effectiveness gets decreased as the series goes on and the biggest blow is in the 4th Test where India should have picked 2 spinners but went with an unfit Ashwin who on a spinner friendly surface only takes 3 wickets and gets outbowled by Moeen Ali who takes 9 wickets and gets replaced by Jadeja in the 5th Test who scores 80 and takes 7 wickets in the match. Again Ashwin starts well in Adelaide Test with 6 wickets and handy runs but gets injured again and is replaced by Jadeja who takes 7 wickets in 2 tests and Kuldeep plays the last test in Sydney who takes a 5 fer. Then Ashwin gets his next chance in NZ over Jadeja because of his superior form in the home tests before and takes 3 wickets but in conditions dictated by pace had no impact and is replaced by Jadeja(for better batting) in the next test. Now in the famous BGT Series of 2020/21 he starts again because Jadeja is injured for the 1st test and is retained in the 2nd and 3rd Test because India has no fit bowlers so Ashwin Jadeja both play and Ashwin has his best series taking 12 wickets at 28 better than lyon and Jadeja holds his own with taking 7 wickets at 15 in 2 tests. Ashwin and Jadeja both play the WTC Final 2021 with Ashwin taking 4 wkts(all left handers) but in the England Series 2021 with Jadeja being India premier all-rounder was guaranteed so his competition not with Jadeja but with the 4th Seamer and here the team management sided with the 4th seamer than Ashwin and Thakur does well as the 4th Seamer taking 8 wickets at 32 with handy lower order runs. And from there on India have preferred 4-1 combination with Jadeja being the lone spinner and the only Ashwin plays if jadeja is unfit in South Africa where the pitches were pace dominated and therefore is not worth discussing. Now Ashwin only hope is in the BGT series this year where he can be expected to start if Jadeja is unfit but if Jadeja is fit and any pitch requires a 2nd spinner I think Ashwin is in competition with Kuldeep(who Rohit rates as a X-Factor). All in all I think the narrative is not as straightforward as Ashwin is not preferred by management. The problem for Ashwin is that he is not had a definitive stamp on a single innings unlike Jadeja and for 1 test Kuldeep and weirdly where he had the most chance he got outshined by the opposition spinners. The management before 2021 always wanted Ashwin in the side but form and fitness has not been in his side and unfournately for Ashwin , Jadeja has always done decently impact wise and now he has competition in Kuldeep(skills) and Axar(all-rounder) and in the 4th seamer(Thakur) who haven't done badly. He is 38 now and expect for Australia I personally don't see him play in SENA.
I have seen matches played in the 2000's and those were the dark days for bowling both home and away. Draws were a regular affair and scores above 450 was common. In those conditions, Kumble was head and shoulders above all. He was a work-horse and had to do it all by himself. Pace bowlers were not that great and only when Harbhajan came in, Kumble's workload decreased a bit.
Ashwin and Jadeja seem to have impacted each others "Match Factor", otherwise seems surprising that Ashwin is only 9% better than the other spinners in his game Edit to add: You do mention this later where they are at 1.5 at home. Seems like Ashwins's away record really is horrendous to bring down 1.5 to 1.1
It’s crazy that if you take away Warne and Murali, there isn’t a stronger list of candidates. Anything else in cricket; best batsman, best opening batsman, best wicket keeper, fast bowler, all rounder, fielder, everything, there are so many names you can legitimately argue for and about.
So just as we expected ,murali is the best spinner of all time in tests,with Warne just behind,the match factor at home is interesting because I thought Warne would be on top of that but murali takes that quite easily,the inarguable goat after looking at these stats
Remark regarding "geometric mean of 1/avg and wickets per match": the geometric mean of two variables is just the square root of the product, but as both numbers are positive and the square root function is increasing, it is equivalent to just take the product without taking a root afterwards (the values will change but the relative ranking between bowlers will not). So in essence, we are just ranking by 1/average * wickets per match, or just wickets/runs * wickets/matches = wickets^2 / runs*matches.
It's Ashwin,of course there so many best guys out there but it's Ashwin's variety of skills and adaptability to all conditions that makes him different from others. Ashwin is the best option in all the conditions it's just that he don't get the chance to play ahead of Jadeja If not Ashwin it's Kumble
It’s tempting given his numbers, but I can’t believe the third best spinner ever can’t get into his own team in away matches. Of course there are mitigating circumstances, but there always are. That’s huge thing to get past.
O’Reilly and Grimmett are hard to ignore, but I’ve always wondered if we should take into account that bowlers who perform their magic alone are possibly more impressive than those that function within a great partnership. By that logic the list could potentially be: 1) Murali 2) Warne 3) Qadir Hopefully one of these days you’ll give up the ghost and make a video on S F Barnes Jarrod haha
There are some things which are considered to be intangible and I personally think that it Ashwin would have bowled more in sena,he would have been a clear third,and I base this on what he did in aus tour of 2021,that was the best I had seen a spinner bowl in aus and that's including lyon,but it's an intangible nonetheless but I think Ashwin is a genius
Jadeja produced similar results. While ash has horrible in 21-22 sa tour . Currently best Indian spinner in sa,aus is jadeja ,eng,NZ is Ashwin . And kuldeep might be better than both but won't play
@@mikespearwood3914 Not true. Kumble's average in Australia is poor and only sub 40 because he took an 8 fer in Sydney after India piled on 705 aka scoreboard pressure.
@@7ChaosBlack kumble took 24 wickets in 3 tests on the flattest wickets against the best Australia batting lineup in the modern age(post ww2) in 2003-04 and he does well in 2007-08 taking 20 wickets in 4 tests. And Kumble has taken 45 wickets in South Africa at 32. the only place he has underperformed is in England and not so badly in NewZealand taking 11 wickets in 3 matches at 40.
Honorable mention.S.C.G macgill would have been more accurate and more dangerous in another country or playing more for Aust. But no.3 Probably Ashwin for me.
as someone whos not watched kumble bowl due to being 4 years before his retirment, i think lyon and ashwin are probably the spinners i look up to as some of the best
As someone who watched prime Kumble and the 10 wicket haul, it depends on what you want from him. If it's variations, then Lyon and Ashwin are miles ahead. But, if you're looking for wickets and restrictions at a time when players are either tired or in a panic mode, Kumble is just different gravy in such situations. The tours to Australia , Pakistan and West Indies, he was clutch. One place where he did struggle was England at a time when England weren't as good as now.
@@akshay_9146 true and in the 2000's he was different bowler all together and he performed. He won test matches in Multan,Jamaica and took 24 wickets in 3 tests against Australia in 2003-04 in Australia. He did not play in NewZealand in the 2000's and underperformed in England and SriLanka. In SriLanka his figures are distorted by the 952 match and by 2008 his shoulder was gone. He took 45 wickets in SouthAfrica at 32.
@@akshay_9146 Even in England he took 14 wickets in 3 tests at 36 in 2002 which was the best of the entire series and kumble did decently in 2007 with getting 14 wickets in 3 tests at 34 and getting 100 in Oval. Not great stats but not bad as well.
Had a short prime and there are other issues in terms of his action (for some), but for a short time Ajmal was one of the most effective bowlers I’ve seen.
I am skeptical about comparing the relative records of players from the same era and who played in the same matches (from same/ different teams). Like Jadeja, Ashwin, Lyon, playing lot of matches together (for/ against), which would ultimately skew the relative stats for all of them. The Indian spin quartet would have faced the same issue too. Jarrod did mention this at 15:50, but I guess, he missed to mention Nathan Lyon. Also, Indian batters giving away five wicket hauls to debutants (in the subcontinent), like, Steve O'Keefe, Todd Murphy, etc., just made it worse for Lyon's records at 15:01. I too think that Ashwin/ Kumble would be the 3rd greatest spinner of all time, but Lyon's name should pop up in the conversation for the fourth greatest spinner of all time. Considering his longevity, he is definitely in the top five greatest spinners of all time.
@@nishantgaglani1654 O'Keefe was actually a pretty great bowler, whose primary draw back was off field issues. Without those, he would have played in the Baggy Greens for some time. And Nahhhh. Lyon is 12-13 at best. His record in Asia is mid, as is his record in SENA and averages 30+ at home (yes it's tough for finger spinners there, so his home record is actually good, but far from great). Tiger, Ashwin, Grum, Laker, Verity, Kumble, Tayfield, Gibbs, Underwood, Chandrashekhar, Bedi and the Lyon for me.
You also forgot an important point fielding!! Aus had the best for many years which help a bowler get more wickets. Not sure of other era bowlers but Ashwin had better fielders but Kumble dint have, specially outfielders.
Jarrod, you should make a series like Making The Case by Clayton Crowley for cricket! Teams, batters, spin bowlers, pace bowlers.. the content is endless
FWIW, both Ashwin and Kumble are engineers, so they know the dynamics of force, movement, friction, velocity, etc. In terms of the 'watchability' factor, I'd plump for Abdul Qadir
If Saqlain Mushtaq played longer and Pakistan cricket didnt discard him for Shoaib Malik, i believe this video would be discussing who would be the fourth greatest test spinner of all time. Even Muralitharan became a much lethal bowler after incorporating the doosra in his repertoire
It is not physically possible to put the necessary work on a ball for it to be an international quality doosra, without either bending the elbow past 15 degrees, or having freakishly supple wrists which can bend and then extend with the natural torque needed to avoid flexion/extension at the elbow.
Bill O'Reilly, he is closer to Warne/Murali than any other spinner. Let's now discuss the 4th Best, which imo is between Ashwin, Grimmett, and arguably Laker, Verity and Kumble, followed by the group of Tayfield, Gibbs, Underwood, Chandrashekhar, Bedi, Rhodes, Lyon, Benaud, Trumble, Saqlain, Jadeja, Swann, Herath, Gupte, Wardle,Vogler, Blythe, Ramadhin, Prasanna and MacGill.
3rd Best test Spinner, who never played enough, Stuart McGill. MURALI no doubt #1 with Warne a distant 2nd. Had Stuart McGill played he may have eclipsed both above.
@@yuvrajganguly Yep, that was my first thought. Ashwin is a great bowler, but quantitive wickets don't mean so much. O'Reilly mostly played on absolute belters against very good batting sides.
@@paulscottrobson Tiger's FC record, especially in Australia is mine boggling as well. Australia had pretty flat domestic pitches in which players like Ponsford, Woodfull and Kippax pulled excellent numbers. Almost all bowlers averaged over 30, including Grimmett. He averaged 19. Given how flat his era was and that he had a flawless record across all conditions. And that many people used to rate him (many still do) as the GoAT bowler, I actually believe he would have ended up above Warne/Murali without WWII, as both of them have holes in their resumes (India and Lara, Australia for Murali also).
Whatever the records it is none other than B S Chandrasekhar of India who impressed me the most with his wristy leg spin delivered at a speed of nearly 120 + kms. On bouncy tracks he was certainly unplayable. Infact he was bowling bouncers too with his speed. There is none of his class exist so far.
@@maaz373 Not true. Smith, Root and Williamson are elite against spin (especially Smith) but so were Lara, Lloyd, Kallicharan, Richards, Chanderpaul, Sarwan, etc. And they are just a bunch of Carribbeans in a 3 decade window. And I am not even mentioning the elite players of spin when pitches used to be uncovered.
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A great video and a number of names I hadn't previously come across :).. one factor it would be brilliant to measure would be around "match winning" for a batter that could be tracking the % of times they have recorded their side's highest score of an innings, but for bowlers it could be either tracking the number of top 6 wickets, the number of times they got out the highest run scorer of an innings, or a computation of wickets from players who had an average in the top x% for their era.
Not sure if it would change things in this case, however
Kumble had a lot of responsibilities on him. We totally used to rely on him for a test win. He's the one for us Indians. Not by the records but by the situations and legacy.
Rangana Herath might be the most under-rated spinner of all time (not saying he's in the best three or four, but criminally under-rated). Dominated in 4th innings, when you're relying on your spinner to bowl out the opposition and spin your team to victory.
Plus he was sidelined for the majority of his career the same way Stuart Mcgill was. But timing favoured Herath more with the retirement of their clearly superior counterparts. Those two were really extremely unlucky
@@ActionJacksonMan On the plus, he did what you said excellently. On the negative side, his away record is very mid.
All these charts actually show how OP Murali actually was
Ashwin is probably the best for me because of the way he manages to think batters out like Warne, and manages to have a lot of different deliveries.
He mostly plays on Indian turning tracks
@@SubhamKumar-tw5yr that's not his fault lol
@@SubhamKumar-tw5yrindia me jada turner tracks 2017-18 ke bdh ban ne lage the Ashwin us se pehle bhi next level kar raha tha test me aur ase too Murli bhi SL ki turning tracks pe hi khela hai wtf
Gibbs period from 1968 to 1972 inflates his average,the West Indies bowling attack was so weak that Sobers used him as a stock bowler.
The video clearly puts the whole picture in front of you and forces you to make your own pick. But I must admit Ashwin made me fall in love with Test Cricket! He’s probably the first Indian bowler who made the opposition team, media and experts live in fear before arriving to play the first match of the series
Ashwin in SENA as the narrative goes like he is unlucky not to get picked is true but not the complete truth. Problem with Ashwin is that he does not have a signature innings haul in a SENA Test.
It started in Jo'burg Test of 2013 where SA needed 400+ in the final innings and AB and Faf had their 2nd blockathon in 2 years where Ashwin goes wicketless in his 40 overs a very similar result that happened with Lyon in Adelaide 2012(Matthew wade dropped 2 chances) but because Australia did not have any spinner beside Lyon he didn't get replaced whearas Ashwin gets replaced with Jadeja in the next test in Durban where Jadeja gets a 6 fer and for the time being replaced Ashwin as India only Spinner overseas.
Ashwin gets his next chance in England in 4th and 5th test where he bowls well gets 3 wickets but due to meek Indian Batting it has no impact whatsoever. Then famously Ashwin gets overlooked for Karn Sharma in the Adelaide test where Nathan Lyon takes 12 wickets and Karn Sharma gets bashed and then in the next 3 tests Ashwin returns(Jadeja is injured) does decently takes 12 wickets but is clearly outshined by Nathan Lyon in the Series.
Post that Series Ashwin 2.0 becomes a world beater and is clearly the best spinner in the world and in 2018 SA Series starts out as India only spinner and does decently in the series decided by pace takes 7 wickets with a 4 fer in Centurion and then starts well in England with a match haul of 7 wickets(all left-handers) in the 1st Test but his effectiveness gets decreased as the series goes on and the biggest blow is in the 4th Test where India should have picked 2 spinners but went with an unfit Ashwin who on a spinner friendly surface only takes 3 wickets and gets outbowled by Moeen Ali who takes 9 wickets and gets replaced by Jadeja in the 5th Test who scores 80 and takes 7 wickets in the match.
Again Ashwin starts well in Adelaide Test with 6 wickets and handy runs but gets injured again and is replaced by Jadeja who takes 7 wickets in 2 tests and Kuldeep plays the last test in Sydney who takes a 5 fer. Then Ashwin gets his next chance in NZ over Jadeja because of his superior form in the home tests before and takes 3 wickets but in conditions dictated by pace had no impact and is replaced by Jadeja(for better batting) in the next test.
Now in the famous BGT Series of 2020/21 he starts again because Jadeja is injured for the 1st test and is retained in the 2nd and 3rd Test because India has no fit bowlers so Ashwin Jadeja both play and Ashwin has his best series taking 12 wickets at 28 better than lyon and Jadeja holds his own with taking 7 wickets at 15 in 2 tests.
Ashwin and Jadeja both play the WTC Final 2021 with Ashwin taking 4 wkts(all left handers) but in the England Series 2021 with Jadeja being India premier all-rounder was guaranteed so his competition not with Jadeja but with the 4th Seamer and here the team management sided with the 4th seamer than Ashwin and Thakur does well as the 4th Seamer taking 8 wickets at 32 with handy lower order runs.
And from there on India have preferred 4-1 combination with Jadeja being the lone spinner and the only Ashwin plays if jadeja is unfit in South Africa where the pitches were pace dominated and therefore is not worth discussing.
Now Ashwin only hope is in the BGT series this year where he can be expected to start if Jadeja is unfit but if Jadeja is fit and any pitch requires a 2nd spinner I think Ashwin is in competition with Kuldeep(who Rohit rates as a X-Factor).
All in all I think the narrative is not as straightforward as Ashwin is not preferred by management. The problem for Ashwin is that he is not had a definitive stamp on a single innings unlike Jadeja and for 1 test Kuldeep and weirdly where he had the most chance he got outshined by the opposition spinners. The management before 2021 always wanted Ashwin in the side but form and fitness has not been in his side and unfournately for Ashwin , Jadeja has always done decently impact wise and now he has competition in Kuldeep(skills) and Axar(all-rounder) and in the 4th seamer(Thakur) who haven't done badly. He is 38 now and expect for Australia I personally don't see him play in SENA.
A really well written analysis.
OMG, your few lines here are way better than hours of analysis on Sports tak. Kahan ho tum yaar. By far one of the best analysis I have read recently.
Ggs man
Bro you must start your own cricket analysis youtube channel.
I have seen matches played in the 2000's and those were the dark days for bowling both home and away. Draws were a regular affair and scores above 450 was common. In those conditions, Kumble was head and shoulders above all. He was a work-horse and had to do it all by himself. Pace bowlers were not that great and only when Harbhajan came in, Kumble's workload decreased a bit.
Ashwin and Jadeja seem to have impacted each others "Match Factor", otherwise seems surprising that Ashwin is only 9% better than the other spinners in his game
Edit to add: You do mention this later where they are at 1.5 at home. Seems like Ashwins's away record really is horrendous to bring down 1.5 to 1.1
And remember, they rarely play together away from home. So his away match factor is entirely his fault
It’s crazy that if you take away Warne and Murali, there isn’t a stronger list of candidates. Anything else in cricket; best batsman, best opening batsman, best wicket keeper, fast bowler, all rounder, fielder, everything, there are so many names you can legitimately argue for and about.
So just as we expected ,murali is the best spinner of all time in tests,with Warne just behind,the match factor at home is interesting because I thought Warne would be on top of that but murali takes that quite easily,the inarguable goat after looking at these stats
Remark regarding "geometric mean of 1/avg and wickets per match": the geometric mean of two variables is just the square root of the product, but as both numbers are positive and the square root function is increasing, it is equivalent to just take the product without taking a root afterwards (the values will change but the relative ranking between bowlers will not). So in essence, we are just ranking by 1/average * wickets per match, or just wickets/runs * wickets/matches = wickets^2 / runs*matches.
I just got a call from an unknown number, and the guy said to post here and say it's Stuart MacGill. I think it might have been Stuart MacGill.
How is Herath not even mentioned
It's Ashwin,of course there so many best guys out there but it's Ashwin's variety of skills and adaptability to all conditions that makes him different from others. Ashwin is the best option in all the conditions it's just that he don't get the chance to play ahead of Jadeja
If not Ashwin it's Kumble
Kumble way better than Ashwin. You are probably a younger guy who hasn't watched much of Kumble at all.
It’s tempting given his numbers, but I can’t believe the third best spinner ever can’t get into his own team in away matches. Of course there are mitigating circumstances, but there always are. That’s huge thing to get past.
This is a good graphic representation of performance on identified parameters. Very nice analysis .
O’Reilly and Grimmett are hard to ignore, but I’ve always wondered if we should take into account that bowlers who perform their magic alone are possibly more impressive than those that function within a great partnership. By that logic the list could potentially be:
1) Murali
2) Warne
3) Qadir
Hopefully one of these days you’ll give up the ghost and make a video on S F Barnes Jarrod haha
Why not Kumble? Harbhajan joined him much later
@@moniskhurshid5410 true, I’d forgotten that Harbhajan came late in Kumble’s career
These are incredible stats.
There are some things which are considered to be intangible and I personally think that it Ashwin would have bowled more in sena,he would have been a clear third,and I base this on what he did in aus tour of 2021,that was the best I had seen a spinner bowl in aus and that's including lyon,but it's an intangible nonetheless but I think Ashwin is a genius
Jadeja produced similar results. While ash has horrible in 21-22 sa tour . Currently best Indian spinner in sa,aus is jadeja ,eng,NZ is Ashwin .
And kuldeep might be better than both but won't play
Ashwin's not even the best Indian bowler in Australia. I would say Kumble was better.
@@mikespearwood3914
Not true.
Kumble's average in Australia is poor and only sub 40 because he took an 8 fer in Sydney after India piled on 705 aka scoreboard pressure.
@@7ChaosBlack kumble took 24 wickets in 3 tests on the flattest wickets against the best Australia batting lineup in the modern age(post ww2) in 2003-04 and he does well in 2007-08 taking 20 wickets in 4 tests. And Kumble has taken 45 wickets in South Africa at 32. the only place he has underperformed is in England and not so badly in NewZealand taking 11 wickets in 3 matches at 40.
@@arnavjindal3062
Kumble took 8 fer after India racked up 705.
You also forget Australia still posted 474 runs lmao.
MY TOP 10
1)MUTTAIH MURLIDHARAN
2)SHANE WARNE
3)ANIL KUMBLE
4)RAVI ASHWIN
5)NATHAN LYON
6)RANGANA HERATH
7)HARBHAJAN SINGH
8)SAQLAIN MUSHTAQ
9)STUART MCGILL
10)DANIEL VETTORI
Why dont you show value of wickets stats? Its avg of all batters batting avg dismissed by the bowler.
Honorable mention.S.C.G macgill would have been more accurate and more dangerous in another country or playing more for Aust. But no.3 Probably Ashwin for me.
as someone whos not watched kumble bowl due to being 4 years before his retirment, i think lyon and ashwin are probably the spinners i look up to as some of the best
As someone who watched prime Kumble and the 10 wicket haul, it depends on what you want from him. If it's variations, then Lyon and Ashwin are miles ahead. But, if you're looking for wickets and restrictions at a time when players are either tired or in a panic mode, Kumble is just different gravy in such situations. The tours to Australia , Pakistan and West Indies, he was clutch. One place where he did struggle was England at a time when England weren't as good as now.
@@akshay_9146 true and in the 2000's he was different bowler all together and he performed. He won test matches in Multan,Jamaica and took 24 wickets in 3 tests against Australia in 2003-04 in Australia. He did not play in NewZealand in the 2000's and underperformed in England and SriLanka. In SriLanka his figures are distorted by the 952 match and by 2008 his shoulder was gone. He took 45 wickets in SouthAfrica at 32.
@@akshay_9146 Even in England he took 14 wickets in 3 tests at 36 in 2002 which was the best of the entire series and kumble did decently in 2007 with getting 14 wickets in 3 tests at 34 and getting 100 in Oval. Not great stats but not bad as well.
@@akshay_9146 For Context Anderson in 2007 took 14 wickets at 35 and he was given POS along with Zaheer
Can I get the code for the visualization?! It looks great!
Had a short prime and there are other issues in terms of his action (for some), but for a short time Ajmal was one of the most effective bowlers I’ve seen.
I am skeptical about comparing the relative records of players from the same era and who played in the same matches (from same/ different teams). Like Jadeja, Ashwin, Lyon, playing lot of matches together (for/ against), which would ultimately skew the relative stats for all of them. The Indian spin quartet would have faced the same issue too. Jarrod did mention this at 15:50, but I guess, he missed to mention Nathan Lyon. Also, Indian batters giving away five wicket hauls to debutants (in the subcontinent), like, Steve O'Keefe, Todd Murphy, etc., just made it worse for Lyon's records at 15:01. I too think that Ashwin/ Kumble would be the 3rd greatest spinner of all time, but Lyon's name should pop up in the conversation for the fourth greatest spinner of all time. Considering his longevity, he is definitely in the top five greatest spinners of all time.
@@nishantgaglani1654 O'Keefe was actually a pretty great bowler, whose primary draw back was off field issues. Without those, he would have played in the Baggy Greens for some time.
And Nahhhh. Lyon is 12-13 at best. His record in Asia is mid, as is his record in SENA and averages 30+ at home (yes it's tough for finger spinners there, so his home record is actually good, but far from great). Tiger, Ashwin, Grum, Laker, Verity, Kumble, Tayfield, Gibbs, Underwood, Chandrashekhar, Bedi and the Lyon for me.
You also forgot an important point fielding!! Aus had the best for many years which help a bowler get more wickets. Not sure of other era bowlers but Ashwin had better fielders but Kumble dint have, specially outfielders.
Jarrod, you should make a series like Making The Case by Clayton Crowley for cricket! Teams, batters, spin bowlers, pace bowlers.. the content is endless
FWIW, both Ashwin and Kumble are engineers, so they know the dynamics of force, movement, friction, velocity, etc. In terms of the 'watchability' factor, I'd plump for Abdul Qadir
If Saqlain Mushtaq played longer and Pakistan cricket didnt discard him for Shoaib Malik, i believe this video would be discussing who would be the fourth greatest test spinner of all time. Even Muralitharan became a much lethal bowler after incorporating the doosra in his repertoire
saqlain was a chucker
It is not physically possible to put the necessary work on a ball for it to be an international quality doosra, without either bending the elbow past 15 degrees, or having freakishly supple wrists which can bend and then extend with the natural torque needed to avoid flexion/extension at the elbow.
@@TheNeo349 ok
Clarrie Grimmett, a great leg spin bowler from the 1930's
Clarrie Grimmer for me. But if someone thought it was any of the luminary spinners mentioned in this video, I don't I would argue
Clarrie Grimmet
4:07 Where's Kumble on this graph?? edit: And Bill O'Reilly???
Its a shame we haven't seen Rashid Khan more in Tests. Certainly will go down as one of the Great spinners ever.
Bill'O Reilly.
Bill was more medium paced, actually. Different bowler.
The metric that really matters: wickets taken in test wins: Warne 510, Murali 438, Ashwin 363, Lyon 325, Kumble 288...
Really bad metric: punishes weak teams
Far more test matches are played in modern cricket.
have meant to ask thing for a long time - how did south africa destroy indias spinners at t20
Bill O'Reilly, he is closer to Warne/Murali than any other spinner. Let's now discuss the 4th Best, which imo is between Ashwin, Grimmett, and arguably Laker, Verity and Kumble, followed by the group of Tayfield, Gibbs, Underwood, Chandrashekhar, Bedi, Rhodes, Lyon, Benaud, Trumble, Saqlain, Jadeja, Swann, Herath, Gupte, Wardle,Vogler, Blythe, Ramadhin, Prasanna and MacGill.
3rd Best test Spinner, who never played enough, Stuart McGill. MURALI no doubt #1 with Warne a distant 2nd. Had Stuart McGill played he may have eclipsed both above.
You've obviously missed Bill O'Reilly.
I thought Kumble straight away, only to watch the video and find out you agree...
Brilliant 🙏
Probably Ashwin tbh..
Closely followed by Herath and Lyon
Where is Bill O'Reilly in this whole analysis Jarrod???
We mention it near the end. He didn’t have 150 wickets so he missed the cutoff.
Yeah, Bill O'Reilly is Very clearly the 3rd best for me.
@@yuvrajganguly Yep, that was my first thought. Ashwin is a great bowler, but quantitive wickets don't mean so much. O'Reilly mostly played on absolute belters against very good batting sides.
@@paulscottrobson Tiger's FC record, especially in Australia is mine boggling as well. Australia had pretty flat domestic pitches in which players like Ponsford, Woodfull and Kippax pulled excellent numbers. Almost all bowlers averaged over 30, including Grimmett. He averaged 19. Given how flat his era was and that he had a flawless record across all conditions. And that many people used to rate him (many still do) as the GoAT bowler, I actually believe he would have ended up above Warne/Murali without WWII, as both of them have holes in their resumes (India and Lara, Australia for Murali also).
Rangana Herath
Erapalli prasanna, bishen Singh Bedi, venkatraghavan , Anil Kumble . My choice is Anil Kumble
Whatever the records it is none other than B S Chandrasekhar of India who impressed me the most with his wristy leg spin delivered at a speed of nearly 120 + kms. On bouncy tracks he was certainly unplayable. Infact he was bowling bouncers too with his speed. There is none of his class exist so far.
Ravi Ashwin
Its not that complicated being from chennai , its ashwin 😂
Third greatest Spinner of all time Test Cricket - as seen in field and TV for last sixty years it's B. S. Bedi if not Chandrashekar
Laker for me.
I mean murali played the same no. Of matches in aus as he did in england,i dont think the nom of matches is the problem here
None but #SaqlainMushtaq who invented Doosera!
Jadeja and Ashwin negatively impact each other's match factor. Especially at home.
Aged like milk
Kumble by a mile
Ashwin because now everyone play ipl and play spin better than previous overseas batters 😅
@@maaz373 Not true. Smith, Root and Williamson are elite against spin (especially Smith) but so were Lara, Lloyd, Kallicharan, Richards, Chanderpaul, Sarwan, etc. And they are just a bunch of Carribbeans in a 3 decade window. And I am not even mentioning the elite players of spin when pitches used to be uncovered.
Paul Wisemen
Nathan Lyon
Bishan Singh Bedi
It's almost like WI isn't one country!
R Ashwin
You did my boy shastri wrong
No shout for the legend who is Narsingh Deonarine? 😂😂😂
What about Devendra Bishoo?
He was decent but certainly not of caliber to land on this list @@rahulsrinivas3224
Easy pick, Murali throws, so he's not a bowler.
Ravi Ashwin