As a Destiny fan, I think it was actually a nice change of tone. We dont often see him converse and disagree with somebody more strongly pro-Israel than he is. So this was a refreshing conversation for a change. I think there were a couple interruptions that could have been better done without. Though, I wouldn't go as far as some people to say that its unwatchable. Thanks for having him on, and I hope to see more conversations between the two of you in the future.
Aha! Good point! Needed that perspective, as I was scratching my head, trying to figure out why his behavior was so off here. I suppose being there for the first time, and interviewing all of those big names, must be overwhelming at a certain point!
@@noneofurbusiness906 Not quite. He has a ban list of people he wont talk to, and there are subjects that he is not informed about that he would not like to speak on.
I think ppl tend to forget that just because Destiny is pro Israel in general and spends most of his time fighting pro Palestinians, that doesn't mean that he's some far right zionist. He's more center right on this issue. Which is why he'll have disagreements with someone like Eylon, a former spokesperson for the Israeli government and will not hesitate to criticize Israel.
I mean, Levy is not considered right wing. At least not in Israel. I just think Stephen has a very US perspective, which I like. It's nice to hear an opinion from an American with NO skin in the game. They often try to get the opinions of American Jews who get emotionally involved. -- And I think of him as center left. Not center right.
im an avid watcher of destiney and id usually agree but I still think he doesn't condemn rafah as it should be, horrible intel with to quick of a action.
I am 16 minutes in, but I have to say - Eylon, let the man speak. Destiny is not there to shout "Yay Israel". He is there to tell the way he sees things. Appreciate the fact that he can give his outsider perspective, instead of feeling attacked. Only good can come out of it.
@@zackmano Not interrupting means you let your interlocutor finish his point. Hell, you at least let him finish the sentence. I have great respect for Eylon, but he is totally interrupting.
EL would ask Destiny for his own perspective then keep interjecting. Very annoying, however Destiny put more studying in 7 months on this than most of the talking heads in their whole lives. This doesn’t mean Destiny is particularly exceptional in his ability, it’s shining a light on how little people know while having strong opinions.
If the host is particularly interested on how the West (particularly the youth) view this conflict, Steven has excellent insight. The conversation is not just about the history of the conflict but also of the current political environment in the west and how it applies here
@@BPJonida While I know Steven has a lot of insight into the Western youth perspective, I was disappointed he didn't explain it as well as he would have on his own stream.
@@dip9995yes but the host was not very open to hearing some uncomfortable truths and would interrupt. Most msg from Israeli state is clearly right wing.
I see your point, but you have to remember this is our (including Eylon's) life. For us, it's not just another topic you get really interested in, and even really knowledgable at, like it is for Destiny. It's never just a 'debate'. We have all the stakes in the game. In these circumstances, it's difficult to reign in your emotions, and you might not even listen to everything at the moment, and miss some useful insights. And even when you generally agree with the person, you can passionatly disagree with them on some of the details, and you want to challenge them. But more in the way people do in regular daily passionate discussions, not like the dynamics with the crazy and contemptuous pro-Pals Destiny has been debating with. Notice that however passionate he was (and sometimes interrupting), Eylon never disrespected him, and it was always in good faith. It just demonstrates the genuine frustration Israelis feel about the global media coverage, and about (what we percieve as) the ignorant Westerners with their precious opinions (not Destiny, okay? but the people they were talking *about* when the passion flared). Eylon didn't say "makes you want to pull your hair out" a few times for nothing, it literally does.
I noticed the interjections but didn't find them annoying, probably because none of them derailed the convo or stopped Destiny from saying what he was trying to say at the moment. Often interruptions are annoying because they're detrimental to the conversation, but sometimes they're just a sign of eager conversation - this was definitely the latter.
I think Eylon thought Destiny was defending idea's he wasn't at some points. When Destiny talks about the way people view things, he is not endorsing that idea, just explaining it.
No.. Destiny was expressing himself poorly and Eylon is far more articulate and used clearer language. e.g. 5:00-5:10 Elon rightly didn't let that sloppy language pass. Like Elon said at 5:30 it is an information war. Destiny himself doesn't like people saying it's genocide when it isn't, so Destiny is careful with words when he wants to be. Eylon is just more careful and more articulate not just over the word genocide.. At 16:38 Destiny say "I can be sympathetic towards the enemies that you have". Eylon knew what he me meant, but Destiny meant to say Sympathetic to Israel in regard to the enemies Israel has. And that was after Eylon answered Destiny's question to educate Destiny on the 6/7 fronts that Israel was being attacked on. Destiny isn't as eloquent as you think he is!
He is right about the need for Israel to get their message across more effectively. There is a serious disproportion between the sides’ presentation of the conflict in the media.
Toward the very end Elan was talking about a cab driver who had saved two girls from the Nova Festival who is as an Israeli Arab Muslim and how proud he was that he had done that. The world needs to hear from the Israeli Arabs more in short clips like interviewing this guy. I think also hearing more from all of Israel's minority communities like druze and Bedouins, Particularly ones That have found a safe haven in Israel like Assyrians And bahai
We are not to blame for an institutionally biased media. We are not responsible for people thinking we caused the black death. Ultimately, it's down to media consumers to wake up and demand accuracy from the press.
Kinda funny how the interviewer was so eager to argue anything framing Israel as imperfect. Destiny was trying to describe US culture growing up and how a surface glance predisposes one to view Palestine as a victim, and he kept interrupting Destiny. He was only trying to share the perspective from US civilians that don’t have historical knowledge yet the interviewer was trying to argue with it. It wasn’t even destinys opinion, just a statement of WHY younger people grow up with a specific leaning
Yea lol Destiny points out how Gaza has been flattened, to explain that Israel’s enemies are pretty weak, only for the host to immediately interject “well that’s becuz Oct 7th!!” ? Nobody said it wasn’t
No. Destiny used sloppy language at 4:50. The interviewer just gave clearer language. So Eylon made the point that it's not that israel involves colonised and colonisers but it could be painted as such. Destiny accepted that. Eylon gave more articulate language to what Destiny had said. Destiny accepted that. That went way over your head. Destiny could've said "you've got genocide", but he is careful at least with that word, not to say that. He could've said you have what could be painted as genocide, but then he'd be almost as articulate as Eylon!
This host was transparently a good example of how cognitive dissonance can blind you to when your own side is wrong on something. Palestinians or Hamas specifically are apparently the ubermensch of global disinformation? But Shapiro says they're living in squalor and sewers? It's the same thing Nazi believed about Jews.
Agree with Destiny - as an outsider I highly suggest you do some kind of story/narrative advertising campaign telling people about the diversity of who Israelis are. Diverse - different skin colours, languages, religions, cultures. But with a Jewish foundation and purpose. Play up that the Jews in Israel are often people whose families have NEVER been through Europe - who have been in the Middle East since ancient times. - "Israel: Where the East meets the West. Where the Ancient meets Modernity. Where Vivaciousness meets Spirituality." Really sell it. It's a great story. Forging ahead to build a great nation despite incredible odds. DON'T take for granted that people know who you are. Tell them. Get Hollywood to do a movie about the founding and forging of Israel.
There's a lot of videos circulating about the history of Isarel and the Jews. However, Gen z group of people watch the wrong thing and even if they watch it, it's more likely that they will not believe it same with the Islam people who deny and deny the whole truth. They just turn their heads to their sides.
They already do, but it's the citizens themselves doing it. They are a very small nation, though. Hard to be heard when the opposing voices are so numerous and loud
I agree with this. I think this would also tie into hearing from the Israeli left. I think college kids in the west would be much more open to that messaging. We have Ben Shapiro for all the perspective we need of the Israeli right. His audience is not that young
@@BPJonida Check out Yuval Harrari. He is a philosopher of the Israeli left. But just be aware, there is no version of the Israeli viewpoint that won't know or understand what H***as has done or what they stand for. Ben Shapiro sounds more like a centrist in terms of Israeli politics. Maybe you can try Haviv Rettig Gur... But I am not sure you will understand their perspectives as "left wing" because they are so different from what the conversation sounds like in Europe or the US. You have to understand, H**mas has been sending in missiles periodically since 2006. They needed to develop a whole new technology and infrastructure to protect periodic attacks from Gaza. They have a whole culture around bomb shelters. It's not the same story we get in the West
I watched some of his streams, he actually reads the source materials and footnotes for example uncovering Norman Finkelstein misrepresenting 99% of his sources
I definelty support his methodology.... I've watched most of his research on this and he saved me a lot of time searching to be honest ... him and Lonerbox aswell. My Dad knowledgeable of the regions history and we had the news on all the time, so I had a really good outline already, and these two have filled in a lot of blanks with their research/knowledge ....as well as refreshing 25 year old conversations I've had.
Where might I find that? I usually dismiss Finkelstein because he is a jew-hating sociopath who was thrilled to the marrow when he saw the massacre on October 7th but I would be interested to see the detailed refutation
@@soltantioI guess there are a few videos, but you can start with the long debate (5 hours) Destiny had with the Twitfinkle and Benny Morris, on Lex Fridman's channel here on RUclips. Can be very frustrating though, because of the slowtalker and he's unearned arrogance and contempt for Destiny. It's also just *hilarious* how he uncovers Finckestein's general mental instability and horrible nature, through the saga and court case the good professor had with his neighbors. Forgot the title, just search Fink's name with words like "insane" "mentally unwell" and "neighbors" in Destiny's channel, and get some popcorn. 🙃
Such nice change of pace to finally hear someone acknowledge destinys' research and knowledge about this topic. Crazy to hear someone who can disagree with destiny and have a good discussion about this conflict interruptions aside. Great discussion!
Come on ... he knows nothing. He did not know and seemed to even doubt and challenge that Israel was being attacked on 7 fronts. He's barely scratched the surface ... and I can see what that is right away ... because he is programmed by his Leftist experience to attach to these Leftist issues, and if he goes against them he will lose his audience, so it infects his whol behavior and that is the reason he has not done the research he should have done. He is not researching so much but looking for the lever to discredit all he has heard about israel so he can save face with his Leftist fools. I am totally not impressed by this guy. What kind of a dope gives himself the name Destiny anyway. How stupid.
I haven’t yet watched the video, but this is surprising considering people in the west are literally accusing Destiny of being a paid spokesperson for the Israeli state
just so you are warned. Destiny doesn't really take sides. If he thinks Isreal is doing some dumb shit he will point it out. He's very against the settlements for example.
He doesn't take sides. He combats misinformation and aligns with the truth. Israel's side today, but when they do something dumb don't be surprised when he criticizes them. He was on "leftist's side" for a while until they showed 0 allegiance to facts, now he's more on the "liberal's side". The idea of sides is dumb imo.
It’s more that he’s able to look at the entire conflict and history with a clear mind, rather than through a one-side bias. Too many rely on emotions rather than reasoning and logic, hence why people just side with Palestine without considering the fact that they’re run by literal terrorists
EYLON… that was terrific! I’ll admit I was worried for you taking him on…. but the discussion was brilliant and respectful and enlightening👍🏻👍🏻 I’d love to hear him have a chat with Einat Wilf….! Can you arrange that?!
People are complaining about Eylon interrupting, but I think it was a great convo. A productive conversation has some pushback, Eylon did a good job listening at other moments.
Yeah, Steven's even said that he hates one sided conversations where there's no pushback. His favorite conversations are where people are substantively pushing back against the things he's saying and things revolved around interpretations of shared truths.
@@novembermike512 There's a difference between pushback and running you over. There were a few times early on where Tiny couldn't even get his point out
This was an interesting discussion but pretty depressing admission that there's absolutely no hope in the fight against propaganda unless we want to stoop to the sick level of parading our losses to the world 😓
Ya 😔... This is the most difficult point. The footage from Gaza is never-ending. People have to be reminded constantly what's at stake for Israel to counter-act the footage coming out of Gaza and that is a horrific thing to do, and Hamas knows of this asymmetrical advantage they have over Israel. I'm sad for everyone involved (except Hamas) 🙁
Time and time again emotional appeals (pathos) have been shown to be most effective at persuading a broad audience. In this matter Israel can't win because Palestinians face more frequent force and record and publish it all. I still think there is more that Israel could do to win in logos and ethos. Israel hasn't done enough to discredit the untrue claims of Hamas, showing the world that Hamas has no reservation lying to influence the minds of the international community. Further, the history of Israel/Palestine are complicated. As Steven mentioned, in the discussion of this conflict each side has their own set of facts to push their narrative. I believe Israel could do a better job presenting their narrative and refuting the opposition's narrative. Israel has no hope in winning the information war regarding the current war against Hamas, but I believe there is still a lot Israel can do in other respects.
Maybe you can publish videos of all the rockets that get sent your way. Could help with giving people a better understanding from a visual standpoint of what you deal with. Videos of rockets being launched from residential/schools/hospitals/etc. could help with justifying counter attacks. Neither will get reactions like actual gore, but might move the needle a little bit.
This is a conversation I had with a leftist friend a long time ago. People don't believe you until they see what you're talking about. We had this conversation about police misconduct in the US in 2018ish. I told him: "If you really believe this is a serious issue, you have to have video of it. We've reached a level of thought degeneracy that people only believe what's right in front of their eyes." Fast forward to 2020, and George Floyd... It sucks. And it should take this, and Israel is so far behind on this front that it might even be too late to change opinions, but without footage of the terrible things Hamas has done, it's almost impossible to convince people of your position in 2024.
There's the 45 minute Oct 7 video Israel has shown to world leaders but not released to public. It's dirty business but releasing that earlier in the war might have helped in the information war. I don't like having to do things this way but it's probably strategically correct.
The world: Solve the Palestinian problem!! Palestinians: Isreal doesn't have a right to exist! from the river to the sea.. The world: Come on, Isreal, why do you not solve it already?!
He said that Israel needs to show commitment to peace, Israel left Gaza altogether, that was a huge opportunity to move towards peace, and look what happened...
Yeah I think Israel just needs a marketing team to show what they've already done. I would not be trading anymore land at all. It hasn't helped so far.
@@zw9802I was pro Israel before Oct 7 but change to pro paly after listening to lex fridman podcast with John mearsheimer and doing research on the subjects
neither side will leave this unscathed. For peace to last there will be some enduring of past hardships as well as hardships yet to come on both sides.
I think he is in Israel for fake street cred. He will not say anything against Israel while he is there, but when he gets back to the US he will stab Israel in the back, because he has to in order to keep his audience and his work.
I don’t understand why people are so critical of eylon interjecting and arguing too - it’s a CONVERSATION - both peoples ideas should be welcome. Are we supposed to just listen to people being put in a chair saying whatever they want with no push back? I love destiny - but he would be exactly the same way if eylon was on his show. We should welcome honest conversations with civilized pushback!
yea, its just that sometimes destiny was trying to make a broad point in response to a question, but was interupted mid-sentance because eylon disagreed with one of the premises. i would rather he let destiny give his full broad response and then pick at the premises after
Imagine asking a question and you get two words into you answer(which the host clearly isn't happy about the direction) and you get interrupted. That's not a conversation. That's one side trying to force an optics win. If you can't even let someone speak when they are about to take a less than glowing position toward your side, that's just spin. Granted it got better later, but at the beginning, this was hard to watch and take seriously
@@damx9385fair enough. But I think this is pretty much Destiny’s MO too. Their heated passionate people with a lot of information (and eylon lives this day in and out) - I think it’s cool to see them be human and just argue or discuss the way that real people would - which does involve interrupting - as opposed to fake debates
@@thejergI didn’t get that because Destiny argues this way all the time. It felt like a pretty even match/conversation that didn’t need to be so formal.
26:16 Just a tiny correction to Destiny - Begin wasn't part of the Lechi (the "Stern Gangs"), he was the head of Etzel ("The Irgun"). Lechi was considered much more extreme than even the Irgun.
Israel never had the support of the "world." In 1948 the Americans put an embargo against Israel and stopped Israelis for buying weapons in Czechoslovakia. In the 1950's the US demanded Israel give Egypt the Negev desert to appease it. In 1957 they treated Israel into returning the Sinai desert (for the second time, first time was in 1949) without a peace treaty. In 1967 the US spied on Israel for the Egyptians (so called USS Liberty affair) but were caught red handed. Later in 1973 the US would not allow Israel to do a preemptive strike and demanded Israel feed the surrounded Egyptian (3rd) army. In 1982 the US tried to stop Israel from destroying the PLO.... you think the French, British, and Swedes were much better? (and no ,the US was not the first to recognize Israel. That dubious distinction goes to the USSR.)
LOL why were the comments regarding Eylon constantly interrupting removed? Even though both were cordial, the relentless interruptions makes it annoying to watch
Actually, you are correct, his style of conversation, when he is constantly interrupting in the middle of the sentence, is rude and appalling! Will ask YT to stop recommending his videos.
It might sound silly Israel-Palestine just wasn't on the radar for a lot of people in the west. Most people don't have the time nor inclination to learn the history/ context of every conflict and for a lot of them this conflict didn't start until October 7th. Most people see about it on the news or social media for a bit, it seems pretty bad but they don't see the really bad stuff nor is there new stuff so the media value wanes. Then for 8 months there's a consistent flow of blown up buildings, some times some dead civilians etc. with media value, so that gets ( some) media coverage for a much longer time. For some people this footage is the only 'evidence' they're really being exposed to and so without context it's 'easy' to see Israel as the bad guy. The difficult part is that just saying that Hamas is using human shields as it's an emotionally very difficult thing to understand for people that are very sheltered from the actual brutality of ( this) war. Since a lot people are lacking the context and won't spend a few weeks researching history/ the actual conflict Israel is going to have to give that context. It can probably never say that Hamas is using human shields for example, but can only provide ( video) evidence of this being the case. In all honesty, the reality of the situation ( the sheer craziness and brutality from Hamas) is the only evidence you need to make the uneducated understand the context. Hamas is using everything they can on the propaganda front and up to a degree so should Israel. Point out the obvious: the civilian to combatant casualty ratio is average for the region, you're providing humanitarian aid, show the roof knocking procedures and explain why they are happening, explain that this sort of event is why WE occupied Afghanistan for 20 years etc. Also look at Ukraine, they're quite good at having a positive social media presence. Heck, ask THEM for advice!
this would apply to people who are fair minded and care about truth, but there a lot of identity politics herd people who would justify whatever atrocities Hamas committed, including October 7.
@@zw9802 True, but ultimately most of the identity politics is based on playing on people's emotions. There's some unmovable ideologues on any potential issue but i would say biologically and through our shared history with colonialism and ww2 we've come to naturally distrust the "Goliath" in every David vs. Goliath story. Hamas get's to run with this narrative and it's an effective one as Israel is 'too decent' to challenge this perception. If people go and do their own research though it will be VERY easy for them to find footage of Gaza getting levelled whilst it's almost impossible to find October 7th footage or footage of Hamas doing terrible things to their own people or to Israelis prior to October 7th. Why would people believe some dude in a suit holding a press conference that's too boring to watch to begin with when the opposing side has so much footage to play on people's emotions with?
@@zw9802 I think Israel needs to understand times have changed, ( social) media has gotten much better at showing the horrors of war since everybody has a smart phone with a camera these days. However some things remain the same. The reason ( i think) the west has supported the Afghanistan war as much as it did is because the people that vote were bombarded with footage of how horrible the attack on the twin towers was. Videos of the impact, people jumping out of windows rather than burning alive etc. was all the motivation most people needed... I don't doubt this was any different in Israel itself but Israel failed to show people in other countries that already lack the historical context the current context - which makes it hard to blame them for not knowing differently.
This is a great interview. The comments at about 39 minutes in are very helpful. For example when people level and accusation against Israel and then the pro Israeli people try to explain what the truth is with facts, This just doesn't stick for a lot of people. I find it really helpful and that's actually how I ended up becoming so Pro Israel since October 7th. I think answering questions with a question might be a good strategy. For example if someone says the UN Security Council said this about Israel, Why not respond with " so you think we should listen to what Syria Iran Venezuela North Korea and China think?" Or that kind of thing. People tend to think the UN has credibility but actually it's completely captured
Brev chill and let him speak, he’s not disagreeing with you, please just let him explain his points from someone who isn’t as pro-Israel as you. It’s good to get different perspectives.
I think Israel should keep to the moral high ground. The "useful idiots" will one day wake up, and the "young keffiyeh students" will also mature and begin to think differently. The silent majority still supports Israel. That's what matters....🇮🇱🙏💙
Great to have him on. Happy he’s visiting us here. Sorry, for being nit-picking, but I cannot spare you a tech feedback as camera man: the CU on destiny is a half stop over-exposed compared to the Long Shot and the CU on Eylon Levy.
Eylon, to your question regarding reaching younger left wing people in the West because Destiny didn't provide a great answer. The answer is just being on platforms with users of that audience. If you're on TikTok and you see a video with gross misinformation or perspectives you disagree with, uploading a video stitching your response. This will get your perspective more eyes. Replying to twitter threads conveying false facts. Imo replying with a custom short form video correcting the record is very effective. This is just on a personal level though. For Israel as a State to do better it would involve large media campaigns out of the scope of what I know as a consumer. I would point towards Russian and Chinese disinformation campaigns that have been very effective at dividing the US. Israel should study their tactics and techniques to influence on social media, then learn from it and hopefully implement in a slightly more ethical way while still remaining effective.
@@dip9995 "disinformation campaigns that have been very effective at dividing the US. Israel should study their tactics and techniques to influence on social media"
@@CDLightt Yes, I'm not sure how you could misinterpret what I'm saying. I'll assume that you're being good faith. There has been evidence showing Russia and China have united to push disinformation campaigns to push anti-American sentiment to Americans, as well as disinformation to create more favorable outlook among Americans of China. The tactics and techniques they employ are obviously effective. You can use the same T&T to gain attention for any idea. There is nothing crazy about observing how to be effective on social media and then copying it for yourself. The difference is the message you're pushing. If Israel used their methods to create Islamophobic sentiment it would be bad. If Israel used their methods to combat the disinformation that they target civilians then it'd be good.
@@CDLightt Russia and China use tactics and techniques that are effective at reaching a large audience and having a message seen and heard. They use these T&T to push disinformation to make Americans more anti-America, anti-Ukraine, anti-NATO, the one China, ect. The T&T can be used to push any message, it doesn't have to be bad. Israel could try to push anti Arab sentiment which would be bad, or they can combat disinformation that they target civilians which would be good.
just a piece an advice...you should not interrupt your guest....everytime he tries to give an answer....it get irritating from here when its constant..
Not an interview, it's a conversation. Deference from news channels and the likes, watch some more of those kind of stuff, it's more interesting, more like a podcast I'd say.
@@doingrandomstuff476 He interrupts him every damn sentence. You can prefer this format without condoning Eylon being a hyperactive child who can’t even wait a few seconds for destiny to finish a single sentence.
@@doingrandomstuff476 Tomato tomato. Pointless semantics. I pointed out that you shouldnt interrupt your guest ALL THE TIME- regardless of format. would you want to hold a conversation if you're getting cut off at every single sentence? You can interrupt a little bit. You can also push back after he's finished and have a back and forth. versus just back and back and back and back - where is the forth?
If I can synthesize Destiny entire argument: if Israel 🇮🇱 came out with a fully thought out and published Peace Plan with Palestine 🇵🇸 it would be a huge step in the right direction going forward in history, but just as much it would put Hamas and the Gaza people on the back foot because their forced to either make concessions towards peace or to flat-out reject peace and make them look like they solely 100% just want to fight and kill all Israelis. But Israel is unable to do this, mostly because of Bibi, so we have a stalemate and the status quo go on forever.
Oslo was such a plan, the result was an intifada that killed thousands. In 2,000 another offer was rejected. Another one one year after that. The problem is simpler: Arabs will never accept a non-Arab state in their midst. Moreover, they are on their way to invade Europe demographically. USA still has a chance. Europe is dead.
@Bearjew927 In what way do you think he's the problem? People can't usually answer that question. From an outside perspective, he seems quite the statesmen.
Suggestion: 24/7 live stream from video drones of Israel providing aid. Obviously can’t stream military operations for safety but let people see how aid is waiting at border or Israeli aid workers getting attacked etc.
Loved seeing Destiny. First time I've seen him called by his first name and not actually debating. There are many Christians who stream and/or debate online to debunk Islam and are pro-Israel. Maybe watch some of them for more ideas. I do love this platform and your civilian spokespersons office.
Great interview, for those of you complaining about the interruptions: dont worry! Steven is used to it and actually prefers to be interrupted as long as it keeps the conversation moving in the right direction!
From an outsiders perspective. I see the difference in how Israel acts and Hamas. I understand the difficulties in being the policing power. That said. What makes it difficult to support Israel completely, is that Israel seems satisfied being that policing or "oppressor" state. It doesn't feel like Israel is looking for a solution. Like if Israel succeeded in eliminating Hamas, it feels like they'll go back to the status quo. If Israel wasworking towards change, of almost any kind. It would look a lot better!
That really has been the case only for the past few years. While the current goverment is bad in every way and can certainly be accused for sustaining the situation, the major reason is the failure of the Palestinians to accept any compromise or gesture (2000, 2005 and 2008 are just a few examples) and Israelis lost appetite for placing costly bets that led to more blood and tears. That deepened what you call "the policing" method, which may or may not be a better alternative, but one that's more controlable. One example is the security fence that originally planned by Rabin who also made peace with Jordan and the Oslo agreement...
@@matane.5427 why yes. I also fully supported Israel through the negotiations. They where in the right, I also don't think they are obligated to re-offer the same deal. It's just that there has been nothing. No attempts at a new permanent solution. Very much feels like Netanyahu wants to make the status quo the permanent solution. I don't like that. The status quo should always be the bad option for Palestine with an option to reform. That reformation should have conditions set by Israel. But it needs to have a path towards normalization.
@@uku5840 I understand your view point. At the same time (and beleive me, my critisism of Netanyahu goes beyond yours), you can't offer less because it's clear that the PL won't accept, unless if it's just to appease the world*. And how do you negotiate with two entities that see themselves as the only legit rulers and the "less radical" of them has no public asupport and promote terror? * Interesting fact, last time there were talks about a negotiation the PLO had demands, including prisoner release, just for coming to the table. If I were "opressed" I'd jump on any opportunity to bring forward any chance for me to get a better reality.
@@uku5840 I'm sure you've encountered in business or relationships a situation where you keep making offers and the other party just isn't interested. You realize there's no benevolent gesture or wise insight that is going to win the party over, the problem is with the other party. At some point you accept you can't change the other party, so you stop chasing and you move on. That's the situation Israel is in. Or to make a neighbor analogy. If your neighbor is irreconcilable despite numerous previous offers to parley, and there's no police you can appeal to should he harm you, at some point you just have to build a big fence and hit him back super hard if he keeps hitting you, no? What's the point of making the same offer over and over? He knows you're capable of being reasonable, he just doesn't care.
@@ngreenwald89 Yes, the offer is not directed at them. It's directed at that companies shareholders, that's why you publish the offers openly. In this case it's directed towards the public. I think a lot of the Israel is an oppressor, falls apart if there is a decent offer on the table. Even better if multiple ones are out there. If the problem is that the UN or some other entity doesn't want to sign or help out. That also looks a lot better for Israel. If Israel is the reasonable party. They should be able to offer reasonable deals to Palestine and to WB and Gaza separately at the same time. A lot of the Palestine pity-points go away if they have the option to make it stop.
Every American goes for "there must be a solution". Yes, like the US brought women´s rights to Afghanistan and democracy to Iraq. Whatever the "delusion": Why not consider the obvious, that Israel will have to rely on being strongest militarily. The Abraham accords wouldn´t have happened if Israel were weak, and the same is true of Iran. And this is about Iran.
I think what really through this conversation off was Destiny voicing the opinions of the other side or giving their arguments and Eylon kept debating him as if these were Destiny's opinions. It seemed as though Eylon was quick to engage in debate and wasn't really hearing Destiny out as he was having a conversation not necessarily debating.
Is Agence France-Presse on the payroll of Qatar or Iran? It sure feels like it when I read newspapers article written by AFP. Anything Israel does good they won’t mention. Anything Israel does bad they will emphasize and repeat ad nauseam.
Host is kind of awful. Based on what I have seen in the past, Destiny has some nuanced and insightful views on this issue and how it is looked at in the West. However, host's primary goal seemed to be forcing a pro Israel narrative.
everyone is pushing a narrative. literally half the conversation was about how to push a narrative effectively. ultimately it's up to the viewer to read the room.
Because the pro Israel narrative is the only one that makes sense. Not allowing a genocidal jihadist society to thrive on your borders so it can rape, kidnapp and murder your civilians is now considered forcing a pro Israeli narrative? Get outta here.
Destiny is doing it again, he needs to stop being a push over. Ask to finish your points, I feel like Destiny let him be a little aggressive and allowed him to steamroll almost.
I’m dying laughing because I was going to comment about how this was really a 4 hour conversation and Eylon nailed it right at the end! Great convo. Covered so much ground. Need a pt. 2 in a few weeks!
Eylon Levy is a terrible interviewer. He needs to let his guest talk. Destiny is extraordinarily articulate and knowledgeable. When Levy yells over him, we can't hear either speaker.
You're not gonna see this conversation in Gaza or the West Bank. "Eez that an effeminate accent we hear?? Oh my..." That tells you all you need to know.
Ugh, every time Destiny really starts cooking up something intriguing, this host interrupts him- and he keeps mistaking Destiny’s responses for being his own personal thoughts and beliefs, when really he’s merely explaining what he thinks so-and-so’s explanation for this-and-that, is.
Eylon keeps directing the conversation towards anti-Palestine, even when Destiny is trying to point out where Israel is messing up. Eylon Levy could never look at the situation objectively.
Eylon really loves the sound of his own voice apparently, Des Tiny could hardly finish a sentence without being interrupted, what’s the point of asking questions if you’re barely letting the man speak
This is a W simply because Destiny is dressed nice and not in fucking sweat pants
If it was colder he would be in sweatpants. So would I.
As a Destiny fan, I think it was actually a nice change of tone. We dont often see him converse and disagree with somebody more strongly pro-Israel than he is. So this was a refreshing conversation for a change.
I think there were a couple interruptions that could have been better done without. Though, I wouldn't go as far as some people to say that its unwatchable.
Thanks for having him on, and I hope to see more conversations between the two of you in the future.
i don't think i could stop myself from interrupting him.
Aha! Good point! Needed that perspective, as I was scratching my head, trying to figure out why his behavior was so off here. I suppose being there for the first time, and interviewing all of those big names, must be overwhelming at a certain point!
@@skontheroad Why who's behavior is so off? I think you misunderstand my comment.
Destiny will literally debate anyone on anything 😂
@@noneofurbusiness906 Not quite. He has a ban list of people he wont talk to, and there are subjects that he is not informed about that he would not like to speak on.
2:55 Mr Bonnell gets into the weeds because he aint no lazy gardener
nice analogy. conveys the point pretty well
@@zerority2kHe didn’t invent it lol, a chatter in destiny’s stream did and destiny adapted it
@@q.m9094 doesnt make the analogy any less good lol
@@q.m9094 hey man let's not get into the weeds OK
Mr Borrelli
I think ppl tend to forget that just because Destiny is pro Israel in general and spends most of his time fighting pro Palestinians, that doesn't mean that he's some far right zionist. He's more center right on this issue. Which is why he'll have disagreements with someone like Eylon, a former spokesperson for the Israeli government and will not hesitate to criticize Israel.
exactly
I mean, Levy is not considered right wing. At least not in Israel. I just think Stephen has a very US perspective, which I like. It's nice to hear an opinion from an American with NO skin in the game. They often try to get the opinions of American Jews who get emotionally involved.
-- And I think of him as center left. Not center right.
Eylon is center left
I’m well aware of this but I couldn’t care less when they support israel
im an avid watcher of destiney and id usually agree but I still think he doesn't condemn rafah as it should be, horrible intel with to quick of a action.
I am 16 minutes in, but I have to say - Eylon, let the man speak.
Destiny is not there to shout "Yay Israel". He is there to tell the way he sees things. Appreciate the fact that he can give his outsider perspective, instead of feeling attacked.
Only good can come out of it.
^this x 1000
I'm 16 minutes in. Seems good so far. The conversation is back and forth, but it feels healthy
@@Limuru1 i agree, hes engaged with way worse debaters/hosts etc hes used to way worse lol
He's not interrupting him. He's actually helping him with small corrections. He's nicer than me. I would have let him keep going.
@@zackmano Not interrupting means you let your interlocutor finish his point. Hell, you at least let him finish the sentence. I have great respect for Eylon, but he is totally interrupting.
EL would ask Destiny for his own perspective then keep interjecting. Very annoying, however Destiny put more studying in 7 months on this than most of the talking heads in their whole lives. This doesn’t mean Destiny is particularly exceptional in his ability, it’s shining a light on how little people know while having strong opinions.
If the host is particularly interested on how the West (particularly the youth) view this conflict, Steven has excellent insight.
The conversation is not just about the history of the conflict but also of the current political environment in the west and how it applies here
@@BPJonida While I know Steven has a lot of insight into the Western youth perspective, I was disappointed he didn't explain it as well as he would have on his own stream.
@@dip9995yes but the host was not very open to hearing some uncomfortable truths and would interrupt.
Most msg from Israeli state is clearly right wing.
I see your point, but you have to remember this is our (including Eylon's) life. For us, it's not just another topic you get really interested in, and even really knowledgable at, like it is for Destiny. It's never just a 'debate'. We have all the stakes in the game.
In these circumstances, it's difficult to reign in your emotions, and you might not even listen to everything at the moment, and miss some useful insights. And even when you generally agree with the person, you can passionatly disagree with them on some of the details, and you want to challenge them. But more in the way people do in regular daily passionate discussions, not like the dynamics with the crazy and contemptuous pro-Pals Destiny has been debating with. Notice that however passionate he was (and sometimes interrupting), Eylon never disrespected him, and it was always in good faith.
It just demonstrates the genuine frustration Israelis feel about the global media coverage, and about (what we percieve as) the ignorant Westerners with their precious opinions (not Destiny, okay? but the people they were talking *about* when the passion flared). Eylon didn't say "makes you want to pull your hair out" a few times for nothing, it literally does.
I noticed the interjections but didn't find them annoying, probably because none of them derailed the convo or stopped Destiny from saying what he was trying to say at the moment.
Often interruptions are annoying because they're detrimental to the conversation, but sometimes they're just a sign of eager conversation - this was definitely the latter.
I think Eylon thought Destiny was defending idea's he wasn't at some points. When Destiny talks about the way people view things, he is not endorsing that idea, just explaining it.
True - Destiny was largely talking about optics in this discussion and was misinterpreted as stating his beliefs, including by some commenters here...
No.. Destiny was expressing himself poorly and Eylon is far more articulate and used clearer language. e.g. 5:00-5:10 Elon rightly didn't let that sloppy language pass. Like Elon said at 5:30 it is an information war. Destiny himself doesn't like people saying it's genocide when it isn't, so Destiny is careful with words when he wants to be. Eylon is just more careful and more articulate not just over the word genocide.. At 16:38 Destiny say "I can be sympathetic towards the enemies that you have". Eylon knew what he me meant, but Destiny meant to say Sympathetic to Israel in regard to the enemies Israel has. And that was after Eylon answered Destiny's question to educate Destiny on the 6/7 fronts that Israel was being attacked on. Destiny isn't as eloquent as you think he is!
He is right about the need for Israel to get their message across more effectively. There is a serious disproportion between the sides’ presentation of the conflict in the media.
38:38
Its something that everyone in Israel know for at least 60 years. Least hear some practical solutions..
The media has an agenda... 🙄
Toward the very end Elan was talking about a cab driver who had saved two girls from the Nova Festival who is as an Israeli Arab Muslim and how proud he was that he had done that. The world needs to hear from the Israeli Arabs more in short clips like interviewing this guy. I think also hearing more from all of Israel's minority communities like druze and Bedouins, Particularly ones That have found a safe haven in Israel like Assyrians And bahai
We are not to blame for an institutionally biased media. We are not responsible for people thinking we caused the black death. Ultimately, it's down to media consumers to wake up and demand accuracy from the press.
Kinda funny how the interviewer was so eager to argue anything framing Israel as imperfect. Destiny was trying to describe US culture growing up and how a surface glance predisposes one to view Palestine as a victim, and he kept interrupting Destiny. He was only trying to share the perspective from US civilians that don’t have historical knowledge yet the interviewer was trying to argue with it. It wasn’t even destinys opinion, just a statement of WHY younger people grow up with a specific leaning
don't forget that this is happening at israel , so not a suprise
Yea lol Destiny points out how Gaza has been flattened, to explain that Israel’s enemies are pretty weak, only for the host to immediately interject “well that’s becuz Oct 7th!!”
? Nobody said it wasn’t
No. Destiny used sloppy language at 4:50. The interviewer just gave clearer language. So Eylon made the point that it's not that israel involves colonised and colonisers but it could be painted as such. Destiny accepted that. Eylon gave more articulate language to what Destiny had said. Destiny accepted that. That went way over your head. Destiny could've said "you've got genocide", but he is careful at least with that word, not to say that. He could've said you have what could be painted as genocide, but then he'd be almost as articulate as Eylon!
Someone had to say it lol this guys whole existence is arab bad the super zionists are scary
This host was transparently a good example of how cognitive dissonance can blind you to when your own side is wrong on something. Palestinians or Hamas specifically are apparently the ubermensch of global disinformation? But Shapiro says they're living in squalor and sewers? It's the same thing Nazi believed about Jews.
This host has probably given the best summary of who Destiny is and what he does that I have ever heard. Very well summarized and accurate.
Babe wake up eylon levy X destiny podcast just dropped
🤣
Agree with Destiny - as an outsider I highly suggest you do some kind of story/narrative advertising campaign telling people about the diversity of who Israelis are. Diverse - different skin colours, languages, religions, cultures. But with a Jewish foundation and purpose. Play up that the Jews in Israel are often people whose families have NEVER been through Europe - who have been in the Middle East since ancient times. - "Israel: Where the East meets the West. Where the Ancient meets Modernity. Where Vivaciousness meets Spirituality." Really sell it. It's a great story. Forging ahead to build a great nation despite incredible odds. DON'T take for granted that people know who you are. Tell them. Get Hollywood to do a movie about the founding and forging of Israel.
If they stick to the truth I'd probably watch it.
There's a lot of videos circulating about the history of Isarel and the Jews. However, Gen z group of people watch the wrong thing and even if they watch it, it's more likely that they will not believe it same with the Islam people who deny and deny the whole truth. They just turn their heads to their sides.
They already do, but it's the citizens themselves doing it. They are a very small nation, though. Hard to be heard when the opposing voices are so numerous and loud
I agree with this. I think this would also tie into hearing from the Israeli left.
I think college kids in the west would be much more open to that messaging.
We have Ben Shapiro for all the perspective we need of the Israeli right. His audience is not that young
@@BPJonida Check out Yuval Harrari. He is a philosopher of the Israeli left. But just be aware, there is no version of the Israeli viewpoint that won't know or understand what H***as has done or what they stand for.
Ben Shapiro sounds more like a centrist in terms of Israeli politics.
Maybe you can try Haviv Rettig Gur... But I am not sure you will understand their perspectives as "left wing" because they are so different from what the conversation sounds like in Europe or the US. You have to understand, H**mas has been sending in missiles periodically since 2006. They needed to develop a whole new technology and infrastructure to protect periodic attacks from Gaza. They have a whole culture around bomb shelters. It's not the same story we get in the West
I watched some of his streams, he actually reads the source materials and footnotes for example uncovering Norman Finkelstein misrepresenting 99% of his sources
I definelty support his methodology.... I've watched most of his research on this and he saved me a lot of time searching to be honest ... him and Lonerbox aswell.
My Dad knowledgeable of the regions history and we had the news on all the time, so I had a really good outline already, and these two have filled in a lot of blanks with their research/knowledge ....as well as refreshing 25 year old conversations I've had.
Where might I find that? I usually dismiss Finkelstein because he is a jew-hating sociopath who was thrilled to the marrow when he saw the massacre on October 7th but I would be interested to see the detailed refutation
@@soltantiothere is nothing to find because the commenter is being hyperbolic with the 99% bullshit😂
@@soltantio If you didn';t watch the Lex Friedman debate between Destiny and Finklestein(with Benny Morris on Destiny's side), you're in for a treat.
@@soltantioI guess there are a few videos, but you can start with the long debate (5 hours) Destiny had with the Twitfinkle and Benny Morris, on Lex Fridman's channel here on RUclips. Can be very frustrating though, because of the slowtalker and he's unearned arrogance and contempt for Destiny.
It's also just *hilarious* how he uncovers Finckestein's general mental instability and horrible nature, through the saga and court case the good professor had with his neighbors. Forgot the title, just search Fink's name with words like "insane" "mentally unwell" and "neighbors" in Destiny's channel, and get some popcorn. 🙃
let's goooo! steve's middle east arc is finally picking up.
It's THE BEST arc everrrrr🎉
It's a key character development arc before we get a tournament arc from Destiny.
Israel flew him out to make him a better spokesman for Zionism and Jewish supremacy.
Such nice change of pace to finally hear someone acknowledge destinys' research and knowledge about this topic. Crazy to hear someone who can disagree with destiny and have a good discussion about this conflict interruptions aside. Great discussion!
Come on ... he knows nothing. He did not know and seemed to even doubt and challenge that Israel was being attacked on 7 fronts. He's barely scratched the surface ... and I can see what that is right away ... because he is programmed by his Leftist experience to attach to these Leftist issues, and if he goes against them he will lose his audience, so it infects his whol behavior and that is the reason he has not done the research he should have done. He is not researching so much but looking for the lever to discredit all he has heard about israel so he can save face with his Leftist fools. I am totally not impressed by this guy.
What kind of a dope gives himself the name Destiny anyway. How stupid.
Great to see Dentiny here! He has been an incredible debunker of misinformation for many young Americans
On multiple issues since 2016. All while learning all of the issues he has on the fly
So far all the guests have been them and Eylon chiming in agreement on almost everything. Destiny has been a breath of fresh air.
I haven’t yet watched the video, but this is surprising considering people in the west are literally accusing Destiny of being a paid spokesperson for the Israeli state
Not really, he is trying to pretend to be an expert on something he doesn't know enough
Isn't the guy a literal propagandist for the country? Probably not used to someone not agreeing with everything he's saying
@@TNTspaz I was actually talking about this Destiny guy, Levy doesn't pretend to be an expert, this guy does and it's pretty comical
Really enjoyed this. Stephen’s a great guy who’s done a lot to push back against the online narratives about Israel.
Didn’t expect to see Destiny in this show. Respect to him for taking Israel’s side.
just so you are warned. Destiny doesn't really take sides. If he thinks Isreal is doing some dumb shit he will point it out. He's very against the settlements for example.
did u even listen to the debate
He doesn't take sides. He combats misinformation and aligns with the truth. Israel's side today, but when they do something dumb don't be surprised when he criticizes them. He was on "leftist's side" for a while until they showed 0 allegiance to facts, now he's more on the "liberal's side". The idea of sides is dumb imo.
@@Zipperheaddttl so he is actually open-minded and not a cumrag for any one side? wish more people could think for themselves.
It’s more that he’s able to look at the entire conflict and history with a clear mind, rather than through a one-side bias. Too many rely on emotions rather than reasoning and logic, hence why people just side with Palestine without considering the fact that they’re run by literal terrorists
Am Yisrael Chai 🇮🇱. Awesome to see Destiny on your show!
Sababa
@@Jones-ke6bt Your mom is sababa ;)
Nothing better than a two way circle jerk, eh?
EYLON… that was terrific! I’ll admit I was worried for you taking him on…. but the discussion was brilliant and respectful and enlightening👍🏻👍🏻 I’d love to hear him have a chat with Einat Wilf….! Can you arrange that?!
People are complaining about Eylon interrupting, but I think it was a great convo.
A productive conversation has some pushback, Eylon did a good job listening at other moments.
Yeah he wasn't really too bad. I also feel like half the interruptions were just an effort to translate for the Israeli viewers.
I liked the interruptions actually, good push back.
Yeah, Steven's even said that he hates one sided conversations where there's no pushback. His favorite conversations are where people are substantively pushing back against the things he's saying and things revolved around interpretations of shared truths.
@@novembermike512 There's a difference between pushback and running you over. There were a few times early on where Tiny couldn't even get his point out
thats because he does it a couple of time at the start of the video. But after that its a decent back and forth.
Destiny, welcome to Israel
i just realized this was overseas lol. thanks😊 next stop is to stream in gaza........
He should stay there
Well, he is not welcome anymore.
@@sownheardno, he is all yours
SHOUTOUT TO LONERBOXXXXXX
W lonerbox
W bonerbox
Who? One of the biggest spreaders of misinformation about the conflict?
@@YNM19Lonerbox has been spreading misinformation? Coukd you name a few examples? It would be really unfortunate if thats true.
Bonerlox
Dgg so content starved this will be this channels most viewed video within the next few days
Engaged?
Lol
Thanks for having our Destiny on!! Wish you and all Israelis good health and hopefully peace in the horizon.
dggL💙
Toda Raba... thank you very much! 💙🤍🤍 Amen. For you all too. And protect him at all costs! 😉😄🤟🏽
Inshallah
DGGL INSHALLAAHHH🎉
Eylon, invite Apostate Prophet to the show.
Yes please!
"that's what they do!"
Eylon, you should consider adding chapters to your videos to make it easier for people to find clips they might want to share
This was an interesting discussion but pretty depressing admission that there's absolutely no hope in the fight against propaganda unless we want to stoop to the sick level of parading our losses to the world 😓
Ya 😔... This is the most difficult point. The footage from Gaza is never-ending. People have to be reminded constantly what's at stake for Israel to counter-act the footage coming out of Gaza and that is a horrific thing to do, and Hamas knows of this asymmetrical advantage they have over Israel.
I'm sad for everyone involved (except Hamas) 🙁
Time and time again emotional appeals (pathos) have been shown to be most effective at persuading a broad audience. In this matter Israel can't win because Palestinians face more frequent force and record and publish it all. I still think there is more that Israel could do to win in logos and ethos. Israel hasn't done enough to discredit the untrue claims of Hamas, showing the world that Hamas has no reservation lying to influence the minds of the international community. Further, the history of Israel/Palestine are complicated. As Steven mentioned, in the discussion of this conflict each side has their own set of facts to push their narrative. I believe Israel could do a better job presenting their narrative and refuting the opposition's narrative.
Israel has no hope in winning the information war regarding the current war against Hamas, but I believe there is still a lot Israel can do in other respects.
Maybe you can publish videos of all the rockets that get sent your way. Could help with giving people a better understanding from a visual standpoint of what you deal with.
Videos of rockets being launched from residential/schools/hospitals/etc. could help with justifying counter attacks.
Neither will get reactions like actual gore, but might move the needle a little bit.
This is a conversation I had with a leftist friend a long time ago. People don't believe you until they see what you're talking about. We had this conversation about police misconduct in the US in 2018ish. I told him: "If you really believe this is a serious issue, you have to have video of it. We've reached a level of thought degeneracy that people only believe what's right in front of their eyes." Fast forward to 2020, and George Floyd...
It sucks. And it should take this, and Israel is so far behind on this front that it might even be too late to change opinions, but without footage of the terrible things Hamas has done, it's almost impossible to convince people of your position in 2024.
There's the 45 minute Oct 7 video Israel has shown to world leaders but not released to public. It's dirty business but releasing that earlier in the war might have helped in the information war. I don't like having to do things this way but it's probably strategically correct.
The world: Solve the Palestinian problem!!
Palestinians: Isreal doesn't have a right to exist! from the river to the sea..
The world: Come on, Isreal, why do you not solve it already?!
It's hard to find a compromise with people who don't want you to exist at all.
Israel is expected to be the most unrealistically flawless country with the most unrealistically flawless government in the world
He said that Israel needs to show commitment to peace, Israel left Gaza altogether, that was a huge opportunity to move towards peace, and look what happened...
that's where i think he has just absorbed the narrative that his generation was fed.
Yeah I think Israel just needs a marketing team to show what they've already done. I would not be trading anymore land at all. It hasn't helped so far.
@@zw9802I was pro Israel before Oct 7 but change to pro paly after listening to lex fridman podcast with John mearsheimer and doing research on the subjects
neither side will leave this unscathed. For peace to last there will be some enduring of past hardships as well as hardships yet to come on both sides.
I'm so glad Destiny is in Israel. Good for him.
I think he is in Israel for fake street cred. He will not say anything against Israel while he is there, but when he gets back to the US he will stab Israel in the back, because he has to in order to keep his audience and his work.
bro u gotta chill and let destiny talk and make his point belive his point is on ur side
I don’t understand why people are so critical of eylon interjecting and arguing too - it’s a CONVERSATION - both peoples ideas should be welcome. Are we supposed to just listen to people being put in a chair saying whatever they want with no push back? I love destiny - but he would be exactly the same way if eylon was on his show. We should welcome honest conversations with civilized pushback!
yea, its just that sometimes destiny was trying to make a broad point in response to a question, but was interupted mid-sentance because eylon disagreed with one of the premises. i would rather he let destiny give his full broad response and then pick at the premises after
Imagine asking a question and you get two words into you answer(which the host clearly isn't happy about the direction) and you get interrupted. That's not a conversation. That's one side trying to force an optics win. If you can't even let someone speak when they are about to take a less than glowing position toward your side, that's just spin. Granted it got better later, but at the beginning, this was hard to watch and take seriously
@@damx9385fair enough. But I think this is pretty much Destiny’s MO too. Their heated passionate people with a lot of information (and eylon lives this day in and out) - I think it’s cool to see them be human and just argue or discuss the way that real people would - which does involve interrupting - as opposed to fake debates
@@thejergI didn’t get that because Destiny argues this way all the time. It felt like a pretty even match/conversation that didn’t need to be so formal.
@@Dejavu_1101 Usually that happens once they're into the conversation not in the first 5 or 10 minutes
26:16 Just a tiny correction to Destiny - Begin wasn't part of the Lechi (the "Stern Gangs"), he was the head of Etzel ("The Irgun"). Lechi was considered much more extreme than even the Irgun.
Israel never had the support of the "world." In 1948 the Americans put an embargo against Israel and stopped Israelis for buying weapons in Czechoslovakia. In the 1950's the US demanded Israel give Egypt the Negev desert to appease it. In 1957 they treated Israel into returning the Sinai desert (for the second time, first time was in 1949) without a peace treaty. In 1967 the US spied on Israel for the Egyptians (so called USS Liberty affair) but were caught red handed. Later in 1973 the US would not allow Israel to do a preemptive strike and demanded Israel feed the surrounded Egyptian (3rd) army. In 1982 the US tried to stop Israel from destroying the PLO.... you think the French, British, and Swedes were much better? (and no ,the US was not the first to recognize Israel. That dubious distinction goes to the USSR.)
LOL why were the comments regarding Eylon constantly interrupting removed? Even though both were cordial, the relentless interruptions makes it annoying to watch
You’re crazy. The comments didn’t go anywhere
@@Macheako yeah my bad. i keep refreshing and I can't see the other ones anymore on this tab. But when i go incognito and refresh, I can see them. 🤷♀
@@betongtee4967 yea yea yea lol 😜
youtube is just a dogshit website
Actually, you are correct, his style of conversation, when he is constantly interrupting in the middle of the sentence, is rude and appalling! Will ask YT to stop recommending his videos.
Eylon, dude, this is unwatchable, you won't let the guy talk for gods sake
Excessive gaming can lead to ADHD. Here's your proof. LOL.
Reading comprehension a little hard for you isn't it.@@RimonDahan
@@mandlor7503 There's really an intellect at work here.
@@RimonDahan the only one it seems lol
It might sound silly Israel-Palestine just wasn't on the radar for a lot of people in the west. Most people don't have the time nor inclination to learn the history/ context of every conflict and for a lot of them this conflict didn't start until October 7th.
Most people see about it on the news or social media for a bit, it seems pretty bad but they don't see the really bad stuff nor is there new stuff so the media value wanes. Then for 8 months there's a consistent flow of blown up buildings, some times some dead civilians etc. with media value, so that gets ( some) media coverage for a much longer time.
For some people this footage is the only 'evidence' they're really being exposed to and so without context it's 'easy' to see Israel as the bad guy.
The difficult part is that just saying that Hamas is using human shields as it's an emotionally very difficult thing to understand for people that are very sheltered from the actual brutality of ( this) war.
Since a lot people are lacking the context and won't spend a few weeks researching history/ the actual conflict Israel is going to have to give that context. It can probably never say that Hamas is using human shields for example, but can only provide ( video) evidence of this being the case.
In all honesty, the reality of the situation ( the sheer craziness and brutality from Hamas) is the only evidence you need to make the uneducated understand the context. Hamas is using everything they can on the propaganda front and up to a degree so should Israel.
Point out the obvious: the civilian to combatant casualty ratio is average for the region, you're providing humanitarian aid, show the roof knocking procedures and explain why they are happening, explain that this sort of event is why WE occupied Afghanistan for 20 years etc.
Also look at Ukraine, they're quite good at having a positive social media presence. Heck, ask THEM for advice!
this would apply to people who are fair minded and care about truth, but there a lot of identity politics herd people who would justify whatever atrocities Hamas committed, including October 7.
@@zw9802 True, but ultimately most of the identity politics is based on playing on people's emotions.
There's some unmovable ideologues on any potential issue but i would say biologically and through our shared history with colonialism and ww2 we've come to naturally distrust the "Goliath" in every David vs. Goliath story.
Hamas get's to run with this narrative and it's an effective one as Israel is 'too decent' to challenge this perception.
If people go and do their own research though it will be VERY easy for them to find footage of Gaza getting levelled whilst it's almost impossible to find October 7th footage or footage of Hamas doing terrible things to their own people or to Israelis prior to October 7th.
Why would people believe some dude in a suit holding a press conference that's too boring to watch to begin with when the opposing side has so much footage to play on people's emotions with?
@@zw9802 I think Israel needs to understand times have changed, ( social) media has gotten much better at showing the horrors of war since everybody has a smart phone with a camera these days.
However some things remain the same. The reason ( i think) the west has supported the Afghanistan war as much as it did is because the people that vote were bombarded with footage of how horrible the attack on the twin towers was.
Videos of the impact, people jumping out of windows rather than burning alive etc. was all the motivation most people needed...
I don't doubt this was any different in Israel itself but Israel failed to show people in other countries that already lack the historical context the current context - which makes it hard to blame them for not knowing differently.
You are mostly right
I was really hoping that he would answer "Why did you decide to get involved with this topic" with "well 8 months ago I started taking Vyvanse"
This is a great interview. The comments at about 39 minutes in are very helpful. For example when people level and accusation against Israel and then the pro Israeli people try to explain what the truth is with facts, This just doesn't stick for a lot of people. I find it really helpful and that's actually how I ended up becoming so Pro Israel since October 7th. I think answering questions with a question might be a good strategy. For example if someone says the UN Security Council said this about Israel, Why not respond with " so you think we should listen to what Syria Iran Venezuela North Korea and China think?" Or that kind of thing. People tend to think the UN has credibility but actually it's completely captured
I am so happy to see this proud black woman go on this podcast
Haha as someone who has followed Destiny since the Starcraft days it brought a grin on my face when he brought up the Starcraft analogy.
Brev chill and let him speak, he’s not disagreeing with you, please just let him explain his points from someone who isn’t as pro-Israel as you. It’s good to get different perspectives.
I liked this talk. the only thing I would say is a little less interruption would be great!
Israel needs to start showing way more footage from October 7th. This is the only way you will fight the social media war.
I think Israel should keep to the moral high ground. The "useful idiots" will one day wake up, and the "young keffiyeh students" will also mature and begin to think differently. The silent majority still supports Israel. That's what matters....🇮🇱🙏💙
26:17 Elyon slithered his way real quick outta that one didn’t lol.
Great to have him on. Happy he’s visiting us here. Sorry, for being nit-picking, but I cannot spare you a tech feedback as camera man: the CU on destiny is a half stop over-exposed compared to the Long Shot and the CU on Eylon Levy.
Why do you keep interrupting him???
Great to see Steven on a show like this!
Welcome home. Tel Aviv Steve
destiny is brilliant, quick and hilarious. grateful to have him speaking the truth to his fanbase.
Eylon, to your question regarding reaching younger left wing people in the West because Destiny didn't provide a great answer. The answer is just being on platforms with users of that audience. If you're on TikTok and you see a video with gross misinformation or perspectives you disagree with, uploading a video stitching your response. This will get your perspective more eyes. Replying to twitter threads conveying false facts. Imo replying with a custom short form video correcting the record is very effective. This is just on a personal level though.
For Israel as a State to do better it would involve large media campaigns out of the scope of what I know as a consumer. I would point towards Russian and Chinese disinformation campaigns that have been very effective at dividing the US. Israel should study their tactics and techniques to influence on social media, then learn from it and hopefully implement in a slightly more ethical way while still remaining effective.
crazy comment lol but I respect it
@@CDLightt Crazy in what way? Engaging in social media to inform on an issue you feel is being misrepresented is crazy?
@@dip9995 "disinformation campaigns that have been very effective at dividing the US. Israel should study their tactics and techniques to influence on social media"
@@CDLightt Yes, I'm not sure how you could misinterpret what I'm saying. I'll assume that you're being good faith.
There has been evidence showing Russia and China have united to push disinformation campaigns to push anti-American sentiment to Americans, as well as disinformation to create more favorable outlook among Americans of China.
The tactics and techniques they employ are obviously effective. You can use the same T&T to gain attention for any idea. There is nothing crazy about observing how to be effective on social media and then copying it for yourself. The difference is the message you're pushing. If Israel used their methods to create Islamophobic sentiment it would be bad. If Israel used their methods to combat the disinformation that they target civilians then it'd be good.
@@CDLightt Russia and China use tactics and techniques that are effective at reaching a large audience and having a message seen and heard. They use these T&T to push disinformation to make Americans more anti-America, anti-Ukraine, anti-NATO, the one China, ect. The T&T can be used to push any message, it doesn't have to be bad. Israel could try to push anti Arab sentiment which would be bad, or they can combat disinformation that they target civilians which would be good.
dear Friends, thank you both for your frankness in this so much confusing times. Am Israel Chai 🇮🇱
just a piece an advice...you should not interrupt your guest....everytime he tries to give an answer....it get irritating from here when its constant..
Not an interview, it's a conversation.
Deference from news channels and the likes, watch some more of those kind of stuff, it's more interesting, more like a podcast I'd say.
@@doingrandomstuff476 He interrupts him every damn sentence. You can prefer this format without condoning Eylon being a hyperactive child who can’t even wait a few seconds for destiny to finish a single sentence.
@@samdaniels2i liked the convo. it’s not for everyone for sure, but i do like the back and forth
Destiny can take it. Yes it shows how staunchly pro Israel Eylon is, but Destiny got a lot of his points in.
@@doingrandomstuff476 Tomato tomato. Pointless semantics. I pointed out that you shouldnt interrupt your guest ALL THE TIME- regardless of format.
would you want to hold a conversation if you're getting cut off at every single sentence?
You can interrupt a little bit. You can also push back after he's finished and have a back and forth.
versus
just back and back and back and back - where is the forth?
Destiny actually putting an outfit together for once. So proud rn.
If I can synthesize Destiny entire argument: if Israel 🇮🇱 came out with a fully thought out and published Peace Plan with Palestine 🇵🇸 it would be a huge step in the right direction going forward in history, but just as much it would put Hamas and the Gaza people on the back foot because their forced to either make concessions towards peace or to flat-out reject peace and make them look like they solely 100% just want to fight and kill all Israelis. But Israel is unable to do this, mostly because of Bibi, so we have a stalemate and the status quo go on forever.
netanyahu is not the problem, nor is there any silver bullet peace plan; some conflicts are way bigger, deeper, and longer than that.
@@zw9802Netanyahu is a major problem
@@Bearjew927 not really, but that's what they want you to think.
Oslo was such a plan, the result was an intifada that killed thousands. In 2,000 another offer was rejected. Another one one year after that. The problem is simpler: Arabs will never accept a non-Arab state in their midst. Moreover, they are on their way to invade Europe demographically. USA still has a chance. Europe is dead.
@Bearjew927 In what way do you think he's the problem? People can't usually answer that question. From an outside perspective, he seems quite the statesmen.
Suggestion: 24/7 live stream from video drones of Israel providing aid. Obviously can’t stream military operations for safety but let people see how aid is waiting at border or Israeli aid workers getting attacked etc.
yes.
Great episode!
Been waiting for this!
Loved seeing Destiny. First time I've seen him called by his first name and not actually debating. There are many Christians who stream and/or debate online to debunk Islam and are pro-Israel. Maybe watch some of them for more ideas. I do love this platform and your civilian spokespersons office.
Big Love from New Zealand yall ❤
Omg I’ve been waiting for this lol
Great interview, for those of you complaining about the interruptions: dont worry! Steven is used to it and actually prefers to be interrupted as long as it keeps the conversation moving in the right direction!
I’m not categorically against interruptions in debates, but this was ridiculous. Eylon wouldn’t let him finish a single sentence.
You should listen to the debates on the topic that are posted on his channel etc.
From an outsiders perspective. I see the difference in how Israel acts and Hamas. I understand the difficulties in being the policing power.
That said. What makes it difficult to support Israel completely, is that Israel seems satisfied being that policing or "oppressor" state.
It doesn't feel like Israel is looking for a solution. Like if Israel succeeded in eliminating Hamas, it feels like they'll go back to the status quo.
If Israel wasworking towards change, of almost any kind. It would look a lot better!
That really has been the case only for the past few years. While the current goverment is bad in every way and can certainly be accused for sustaining the situation, the major reason is the failure of the Palestinians to accept any compromise or gesture (2000, 2005 and 2008 are just a few examples) and Israelis lost appetite for placing costly bets that led to more blood and tears. That deepened what you call "the policing" method, which may or may not be a better alternative, but one that's more controlable. One example is the security fence that originally planned by Rabin who also made peace with Jordan and the Oslo agreement...
@@matane.5427 why yes. I also fully supported Israel through the negotiations. They where in the right, I also don't think they are obligated to re-offer the same deal.
It's just that there has been nothing. No attempts at a new permanent solution. Very much feels like Netanyahu wants to make the status quo the permanent solution.
I don't like that.
The status quo should always be the bad option for Palestine with an option to reform.
That reformation should have conditions set by Israel. But it needs to have a path towards normalization.
@@uku5840 I understand your view point. At the same time (and beleive me, my critisism of Netanyahu goes beyond yours), you can't offer less because it's clear that the PL won't accept, unless if it's just to appease the world*. And how do you negotiate with two entities that see themselves as the only legit rulers and the "less radical" of them has no public asupport and promote terror?
* Interesting fact, last time there were talks about a negotiation the PLO had demands, including prisoner release, just for coming to the table. If I were "opressed" I'd jump on any opportunity to bring forward any chance for me to get a better reality.
@@uku5840 I'm sure you've encountered in business or relationships a situation where you keep making offers and the other party just isn't interested. You realize there's no benevolent gesture or wise insight that is going to win the party over, the problem is with the other party. At some point you accept you can't change the other party, so you stop chasing and you move on.
That's the situation Israel is in.
Or to make a neighbor analogy. If your neighbor is irreconcilable despite numerous previous offers to parley, and there's no police you can appeal to should he harm you, at some point you just have to build a big fence and hit him back super hard if he keeps hitting you, no? What's the point of making the same offer over and over? He knows you're capable of being reasonable, he just doesn't care.
@@ngreenwald89 Yes, the offer is not directed at them. It's directed at that companies shareholders, that's why you publish the offers openly.
In this case it's directed towards the public. I think a lot of the Israel is an oppressor, falls apart if there is a decent offer on the table. Even better if multiple ones are out there.
If the problem is that the UN or some other entity doesn't want to sign or help out. That also looks a lot better for Israel.
If Israel is the reasonable party. They should be able to offer reasonable deals to Palestine and to WB and Gaza separately at the same time.
A lot of the Palestine pity-points go away if they have the option to make it stop.
The crossover I never expected!
People over complicate Destiny... He is a contrarian.
Great interview. Too short and there were a lot of things that deserve more time and consideration but overall, great
Every American goes for "there must be a solution". Yes, like the US brought women´s rights to Afghanistan and democracy to Iraq.
Whatever the "delusion": Why not consider the obvious, that Israel will have to rely on being strongest militarily. The Abraham accords wouldn´t have happened if Israel were weak, and the same is true of Iran. And this is about Iran.
I think what really through this conversation off was Destiny voicing the opinions of the other side or giving their arguments and Eylon kept debating him as if these were Destiny's opinions. It seemed as though Eylon was quick to engage in debate and wasn't really hearing Destiny out as he was having a conversation not necessarily debating.
Thanks Eylon for bringing him on. Destiny is fair and well informed. Thank you Steven for visiting us
Seriously deluded.
Is Agence France-Presse on the payroll of Qatar or Iran? It sure feels like it when I read newspapers article written by AFP. Anything Israel does good they won’t mention. Anything Israel does bad they will emphasize and repeat ad nauseam.
You should let your guest speak more.
The palm tree behind Destiny totally demolished the arguments of the fig tree behind the other guy.
Host is kind of awful. Based on what I have seen in the past, Destiny has some nuanced and insightful views on this issue and how it is looked at in the West. However, host's primary goal seemed to be forcing a pro Israel narrative.
That's because he cannot get over not being the Government's spokesperson anymore. Sad.
everyone is pushing a narrative. literally half the conversation was about how to push a narrative effectively. ultimately it's up to the viewer to read the room.
@@CrtlW or we can expect better and push for people to talk about complex issues with the nuance and seriousness they deserve
@@mark7736well, neuance is important. Not being genocided after 1400 years of enslavment, is a bit more.
Because the pro Israel narrative is the only one that makes sense. Not allowing a genocidal jihadist society to thrive on your borders so it can rape, kidnapp and murder your civilians is now considered forcing a pro Israeli narrative? Get outta here.
Destiny is doing it again, he needs to stop being a push over. Ask to finish your points, I feel like Destiny let him be a little aggressive and allowed him to steamroll almost.
Destiny is great!
Good job Eylon! You held your own in this debate and that's not easy when debating Destiny.
That's because you haven't seen him demolished by facts. I have.
Eylon, stop interrupting
I stand with Israel now and forever. ❤🇮🇱❤🇮🇱❤
Very proud of you for hosting the voice of a proud black woman Eylon. ❤
Eylon, dude, why are you constantly interrupting Steven? You need to chill.
Yeah he's a bit pushy
Yeah it’s really annoying.
I’m dying laughing because I was going to comment about how this was really a 4 hour conversation and Eylon nailed it right at the end! Great convo. Covered so much ground. Need a pt. 2 in a few weeks!
destiny will not be in israel in a few weeks
Eylon Levy is a terrible interviewer. He needs to let his guest talk. Destiny is extraordinarily articulate and knowledgeable. When Levy yells over him, we can't hear either speaker.
You're not gonna see this conversation in Gaza or the West Bank.
"Eez that an effeminate accent we hear?? Oh my..."
That tells you all you need to know.
Ugh, every time Destiny really starts cooking up something intriguing, this host interrupts him- and he keeps mistaking Destiny’s responses for being his own personal thoughts and beliefs, when really he’s merely explaining what he thinks so-and-so’s explanation for this-and-that, is.
is mr spaghetti in israel?
Bigly
LonerBox too
Thank you Destiny for participating and for everything you do ❤ very interesting conversation, great points on both sides thank you.
this isn’t a debate, it’s a conversation.
you're misreading the title
@@sheryarahmed6331 My bad-I must’ve misunderstood the thumbnail with, “Destiny vs. Eylon: The Debate Showdown,” taking up half of the image.
@@boodramravHe has officially sold out
Nice bringing destiny to your show eylon
This will definitely improve the views this channel gets 😊
Needed to be longer!
Yup. Way more ground needs covering
Eylon keeps directing the conversation towards anti-Palestine, even when Destiny is trying to point out where Israel is messing up. Eylon Levy could never look at the situation objectively.
People like Destiny generate content that becomes memes and influences thought leaders
Fast paced conversation is an understatement when it comes to destiny
great interview. informative
Eylon really loves the sound of his own voice apparently, Des Tiny could hardly finish a sentence without being interrupted, what’s the point of asking questions if you’re barely letting the man speak
Meanwhile, Hasan is sitting pretty in his $3M mansion talking shit, can’t get a fucking sleep.
Why do you guys give Hasan so much attention.... Sick of hearing of him, stop making him even more famous, everybody sane knows he's an *****
This is seriously the best discussion on the conflict yet.
For a guy who "usually asks the questions" He sure does do the majority of the talking...