Hit and Miss and Throttle Governed Engines Explained! What's The Difference and How Do They Work?
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- Опубликовано: 16 янв 2022
- Well I figured that since I can now run both my 1928 Fuller and Johnson Model NC and my 1923 Witte Model B simultaneously that it's about time that I did a video explaining the difference between a hit and miss engine and a throttle governed engine and how they both work! Both are really neat designs and since they are commonly confused I figured I'd show them both off side by side and maybe someone will learn something!
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What's crazy to me is that all these engines are over 100 years old. It's a simple concept, but difficult to actually get working. Great video!
Yessir! Sometimes the simple stuff is the best! Combine that with being overbuilt and it will last forever!! Thanks for Watching!
Whenever I go to a county fair or such, I always find myself standing mesmerized by these. One day I will own one. For what, I don't know but I just love them. It's the little things that make me happy.
I own a couple and I'm still mesmerized by them LOL! Yea you definitely need one! They are a lot of fun! Thanks for Watching Robert!
When i was an apprentice electrician 55 years ago. We did a lot of work in a Foundry. Where the Jaguar V12 engines were cast & the mini too. I got told off by a Manager twice for being in the Compressor house. I used to go in there & eat my lunch. Just so i could feel & listen to the huge single cylinder compressors thumping away. Everyone thought i was mad. Your vid brought back those memories. At present i am just starting to build a hit n miss. It is going to be 25cc. Probably a 10 or more part series on here. The governor you show has given me idea's of how to make mine. Thanks for the video's. Brilliant. Subbed to your channel.
Regards. from the UK.
Steve.
That's awesome! I'd totally do the same thing lol! That's so cool! I'll have to check out the videos! Glad these videos were helpful and thanks for the sub too! :)
It's a neat solution to a good few problems. First of all - fuel dosing. Well, this engine will only ever draw a fixed amount of air per power cycle, so it only ever needs a fixed amount of fuel. Much simpler.
More importantly though, under partial load it will retain its thermal efficiency. The Otto cycle (which these all are) only ever achieves peak efficiency when operating at the highest possible pressure ratio. Slapping a throttle valve into the path of inlet air reduces that pressure ratio in order to bring power down, but in doing so it also kills any sort of thermal efficiency that engine ckuld have had, which would make that type of engine wasteful whenever not fully loaded.
Skipping the cycle altogether means that the necessary pressure ratio is retained and thus so is efficiency. The compression release mechanism further improves that by not losing energy to entropy (from compression and expansion) during the un-fuelled cycles.
Yeah it sure is! They came up with some clever stuff back then!
I just got a Witte 3 HP throttle Governed engine to rum my huge grain mill. This is a great video explaining the difference between a hit and miss engine and a throttle governed engine. New subscriber
Very cool! Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the subscription too! :)
Good job Colin,.I always enjoy your videos!
Thanks Kevin! Glad you enjoy them! Thanks for watching!
Roadking sent me here - just looking at the titles of your videos I know I'm going to enjoy them! New subscriber now :)
Awesome! Thanks for the sub! I'm sure you will find plenty to keep you busy for a while, and there's more on the way soon so stay tuned! :) Thanks for stopping by and hope you enjoy the channel Chris!
Thank you very informative got my first one running today had really no idea what to with them played around I thought something was wrong with it cause it kept firing every time now I know it's a throttle governed engine thanks again for the input and the video
Glad I could help you out! Thanks for Watching!
Always a great job Colin !!!
Thank you Will!!
Great Video. I always wondered but never asked the difference between hit and miss and throttle governed. I have a Jaeger 2 hp cement mixer engine that is ready to try this spring. Thanks!
Thanks! Glad I could help clear it up for you! That sounds like a really cool machine! Thanks for Watching!
Great video
Thanks Daren!
Good explanation on hit and miss governed engine
Thanks Luis!
Well presented explanation of a hot and miss engine visa vie a throttle governed engine.
Thank You Robert!
Great video and explanations! Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for Watching Brian!
Nice video bro! Those engines looks great!
Thanks Matthew!
Awesome video bud! Very well spoken! I will be doing a video on total loss lubrication systems in the near future.
Thanks Eric! Ooh, that sounds interesting! I'll keep an eye out for it! Thanks for Watching!
@@colin_5839 Sure thing! Right on!
Great video and great explanation
Thanks Todd!
What a wonderful video! Tractorguy5 sent me over and its a wonderful channel well done. I look forward to seeing more. 😀
Thanks Paul! There are a lot of videos for you already on the channel but more is always on the way! :) Thanks for Watching!
Nice engines. Great explanation.
Thank you!
Smart idea to explain this!
Thanks! Hope it helped!
Got a 1917 Baker Monitor sitting in the shop now that's been in the family 100+ years. Learned a lot about how it runs just tinkering with it.
Very cool! Those are nice engines! Thanks for Watching!
Great explanation 👍
Glad it helped!!!
Excellent video, thanks for making it.
Thanks! My pleasure! Thanks for Watching!
Thanks for that smart video 👍🏻
Crystal clear now ! ...
My pleasure! Glad I was able to clear it up for you! Thanks for Watching!
Lovely old engines!!
Thanks Robert!!
Good stuff Bud!!☻
Thanks Roadking! Glad you enjoyed!
Good video! Thanks!
Thanks!
Good video 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks Boneyard!
LOVE THAT DODGE TRUCK ❤️. I have a 65 D300.
Thanks! I love it more though LOL! Nice! That's got to be a fun rig!! Thanks for Watching!
Very cool !!
Thanks Eric!
I might have missed it, but you didn't mention how the intake valve is only spring loaded and opens from the vacuum when the exhaust valve is closed. I love those old engines ❤️👍
I feel like I may have mentioned it but it's possible I missed it. I also love them quite a bit! Thanks for watching!
Thanks
My pleasure! Hope it was helpful!
Thank-you very much, I have se model 92 maytags but I have an itch to go bigger,don't know whether to stay with hit and miss or try throttle governor, any thoughts?? Thank-you
My pleasure! The model 92 Maytags are technically hit and miss governed, however since they are 2 cycle and have no valves to hold open I believe they cut the spark of the fuel off somehow... Can't totally remember off the top of my head though. Thanks for Watching Patrick!
I could use that Witte Model B to fire up when my neighbor decides to do his weekly all night bass guitar practice. But I like the info.
HAHA! It's great for stuff like that LOL! Glad you got something out of the video too! Thanks for Watching David!
Hey Colin , I purchased the El 600 spraylon varnish you suggested just recently ... I've never preformed this kind of procedure before . Could you give me some tips on how I can do this ?
I start by making sure the windings are clean. I usually use a clean paint brush to gently brush off any large dust bunnies as well as an air compressor to remove the really stuck on dust. After that I tape off everything that isn't the windings so I dont have to scrape varnish off of everything and then apply several thick layers of the varnish all over the windings, After that I use dental floss to tire them back up together as usually the original tape or ties are in poor condition. Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any questions!
@@colin_5839 Ok, man I really appreciate it, This is a westinghouse motor to by the way , the field windings don't look as good as you'd expect but It works , I think this is going to work out. By the way do you still have the motor you were going to sell to me last year?
@@stevethefanman8955 No problem! One way to find out I guess lol! And yes I still have that motor, but it's back at home as of right now. I guess if you want it we can work out a deal and you can send me your info and I'll have my parents ship it to you. Let me know!
@@colin_5839 Ok man , I have a new phone now and we'll talk about the shipping and Email when the time is right , thanks Colin.
Great video Colin as always and very thorough on explaining how everything functions but I have one small issue...watch that wire on the witte😂! Don't know if you've ever zapped yourself with one of those mags but it can hurt!
Thanks! Ohh come on, that wire just keeps things interesting and makes sure you are alert!😂 I've been zapped plenty of times by a lot of different ignition coils, but havent tried the EK yet... Might have to try it one day and see how it compared to other systems LOL! In all seriousness though that was a quick "Ohh crap the show is tomorrow!" repairs, I'll be fixing it properly this summer ( at some point....) Thanks for Watching Tohper!
@@colin_5839 lol they can be lively! I've had the pleasure a couple of times and I kinda figured that was the case with the wire lol you got to do what you got to do especially if you're about to leave for a show or at a show already.
I'd imagine it would be quite... shocking (Sorry, I had to😂) if you get zapped by one of them! Gotta say though that a buzz coil bites pretty good and a car ignition coil in one arm and out the other really wakes you up a bit too LOL!
@@colin_5839 I fully expected you too lol and yes sir that they do probably one of the worst shocks I got was off a high-tension buzzbox for our Tom Thumb lol
Yea I can imagine! I didn't get it directly but I wired 6HP New Way incorrectly at the last show and for some reason the whole engine went live and I touched it. Definitely woke me up a bit lol. I'm sure with a direct shot from one of those coils you would be on the floor though! 🤣 I'm sure I'll find out at some point!
Careful. YIKES
Careful with what?
if you put a load on the hit n miss it will fire more often to keep the rpm up and sound so much better.
Yes that is correct, but personally I prefer when they fire less often. I love the sound of a throttler hitting every time, but for a Hit and Miss I prefer it to have a longer coast time between hits. Thanks for Watching!
Hello Colin , ROADKING sent me over. New sub
Awesome! Thanks for the sub! I'm sure you will find plenty to keep you busy for a while, and there's more on the way soon so stay tuned! :) Thanks for stopping by and hope you enjoy the channel!
What are they used for? And how do you hook them up to use them?
They were used to run farm equipment back in the day! Usually connected via a large flat belt pulley! Thanks for Watching!
If you raise the pressure ratio to make good use of modern fuels (11 to 13.5?), this type of engine becomes efficient and practical for general use whenever such low speeds are required.
I've often wondered about if it would be an efficient design with a higher compression ratio and less fuel leaks LOL! Thanks for Watching!
@@colin_5839 I think we could probably build a modern version with all the requisite bells and whistles - electric start with automated compression release (to make use of that big flywheel), integrated generator (to double as the starter, see Honda's 125 scooter engines), simple fuel injection (port or direct) and a high pressure ratio. Probably won't match something with a turbo, but if the generator is big enough to pull a few kW steady, then this could viably compete in efficiency with small generators, though not in size or weight (vis a vis GIANT flywheel).
Maybe as a one-off by enthusiasts for fun (and to actually power the electrics) at old engine rallies, but most likely not commercially viable.
Yeah that sure would be neat!!
Oil fields out here in australia frequently use hit and miss engines for running pumps in remote areas. A lot of them are set up to draw from propane and are VERY efficient, to the point they may run weeks straight without needing service
@@TheWolfiet Makes sense - any time they're making power, they're at their most efficient. The rest of the tine it's coasting with no fuel input at all. No reason why it would be less efficient than any other modern engine.
Just came across your channel and subscribed. I want to build engines soon on my channel
“Rusty inventions “ just love seeing other people doing it.
Thanks for the sub! Glad you enjoy! I'll check your channel out!
👍
Thank you!
How long can you run it with no water in it?
The Witte I always keep water in as it's a throttle governed engine and they run pretty warm, the fuller and johnson can run for a few minutes without water, but I usually keep feeling the cylinder when I do that to make sure it doesnt get too too warm. Thanks for watching!
Very interesting. Tell me, does the Hit n Miss engine draw fuel each and every engine revolution, or just on the firing cycle?
Almost all hit and miss engines only draw in fuel when they need to fire and so they really don't use much fuel at all. There are some I am aware of that govern themselves by cutting out the spark (Such as a Maytag 92 for example) and those will continue to bring in fuel even when not firing, however, the vast majority that I have seen do not work this way. Thanks for Watching!
@@colin_5839 thank you. How is the fuel supply interrupted? I guess there must be some mechanical means of cutting fuel off automatically, but don't know what that is.
@@jakemurphy9536 Well when it's coasting without compression theres nothing to suck the intake valve open and if intake valve isn't getting drawn in so there's no suction going through the intake so suck any fuel into the engine either
@@colin_5839 thank you!
My friend built an electric hit & miss engine recently
Cool!
Must be fuel efficient ?
Well they are not very efficient engines overall given their size and low power outputs, however, they do not use a lot of gas, especially when they are just idling and not working! Thanks for Watching Dan!
The fuel and air does not go in there from suction, it's from more atmospheric pressure outside. Good vid tho
Huh, interesting! I thought the piston going back in the bore created a vacuum which drew the intake valve open and sucked the fuel / air mix in!
@@colin_5839 You are very correct.