I think a huge reason why so many decks that used to be playable arent playable is due to something you mentioned: why wouldnt you just play neutral pirate package spam decks? They win so fast, arent expensive to make for new players and bot accounts, and outpace more focused aggressive packages. They limit deck building to an insane degree.
It is not about pirates, but about power creep in general. Pirates beat many archetypes, this is correct, but so do many combo and Reno decks. The only way to make them playable again is to slow down their competitors' wincons (Turn 6 OTK paladin go brrr), nerf value generation (like fr, Marin is way out of league of any treasure generation card we've seen before) and nerf the overpowered board clears, which not only destroy, but silence and prevent respawn.
I like wild due to the amount of meme decks I see, then some tryhard comes in with a pirate one, and not even an interesting meme-tier pirate one, just a meta one. (And is also a bot 50% of the time) It's so boring.
Horn of winter is an amazing card that is currently being ran in multiple standard decks, one of which is tier 1 and the other is tier 2. Also horn of winter saw play back when lady deathwhisper was in standard with triple frost rune.
frost DK has been a niche archetype that most players avoid, there just isnt enough playdata to say that its solidified a spot as a good list, let alone any enablers it uses being labelable as good.
horn is both played in ffu dk (one of the best standard decks pre miniset) and triple frost which was also really good soo idk where ur coming from with that one lmao
He often talks card purely about wild because his understanding of standard is somehow worse than that of some1 who only watches and no longer plays the game.
I think a lot of these speak to blizzards willingness to try new things for classes - many of these cards or packages have seen use and success in standard and so would be seen as successful designs by that measure. The need for streamlining and ongoing support is something of a wild issue when some of these are forgotten. I would be interesting to see a power point on what you consider to be the truly successful wild formats. I think there is an interesting discussion to be had on how a diverse format can survive or encourage experimentation with more unusual cards. Or alternatively, some of the more interesting experiments to come about.
you've made me want the return of the Galakrond's archetype, let it be old buffed/reworked cards or new ones. was so much fun back in Descent of the Dragons
Ever since they released that one singular murloc for warlock way back when without any other murlocs for warlock for some reason (why the fuck was seadevil stinger printed?), I've always wanted murloc warlock to be a thing, then it became a thing and I was very very happy. Even then, chum bucket and voidgill felt bad to play because I just couldn't fill my hand with murlocs fast enough. Even Azsharan/sunken scavenger doesn't feel good to play because despite saying "wherever they are", it doesn't buff murlocs generated afterwards (at least when it was in standard). The one warlock murloc that wild brings to the deck is a worse bloodscent vilefin; costs more, worse stats, doesn't dredge.
Horn of Winter is actually played atm... at least a little bit in razzle DK. I think, in the frost-burn decks of the past, Horn of Winter saw some play, but not a ton. Reason for that was mainly that it was hard to afford playing a card that "does nothing" in those decks, you were too liable to run out of stuff. Weird thing about Kryxis is that he just has no use in a class like DH. Demon Hunter already has SOOOOO much draw, you just dont need an effect like that.
If Bolf Ramshield found a use, a card that can only ever work with immune boards and no other circumstances, every card in Hearthstone is potentially viable. And most of these are good cards. Probably after another expansion or two, at least some of them will be broken and most will be good.
as much as i love the idea of Unliving Champion in DK, i think it would be wayyyyy too consistently OP since its essentially free 100% of the time with just the hero power alone
Nah it is just ok. Other weapon (1 mana 3 durability) deal 1 damage to all enemies after shadow spell is great. It is so much better to just deal 3 damage to all enemies for 1 mana than deal 4 to 1 target for 1 mana...
Me too. It's such a cool card, but I think it only gets anywhere once a better hand discount engine comes. It really needs something like octobot to come along and discount super cheap minions to 0 to match wilds current pacing.
When DK was released horn of winter was premium for double/triple frost burn decks. Copying the 0 cost spell was good and comboing with direct damage allowed you to chain more cards or chip in dmg. It may seem not good now since more cards got rune changes allowing more flexibility for rainbow dk. And gaining more health is more appealing then frost burn/midrange
honorable mention: swiftscale trickster. swiftscale trickster always seemed like a weird card to print for rogue... makes it so you can never print a good high cost spell in the future but this literally only works in rogue. would break any other class.
I just want to add Kel'thuzad and the Volatile Skeletons being a very interesting mechanic for Mage where they only released 4 cards in the same expansion and never did anything else.
I'm watching these videos as someone who stopped playing a bit before witchwood and the concept of emerald spellstone being "horrifically bad" gives me culture shock.
you'd think that the entire video being about wild and referencing wild cards and that I have said this EXACT message 500 thousand times would for once EVER make people think that I, the guy who ONLY PLAYS WILD AND ONLY TALKS ABOUT WILD IS TALKING ABOUT FUCKING WILD
Horn of Winter would 100% see play as soon as Frost DK sees play in Wild. It's just a new class so there's no critical mass of cards to make a fast/combo deck work
This gave me a horrifying idea for a Tavern Brawl, where every deck can build a deck with cards from other classes. I'm genuinely curious to see how that would go, other than Burgle Rogue having the wettest dream of their lives.
If you ran that card you're trolling on my life your Murlocs should have been gorlocs mutanus flurgl tox fin twins clownfish Scargill and Finley only to make your gorlocs + ice fishing actually hit the cards you want to be running
I for one welcome our new, aura overlords and curse the ground that secrets are buried in. They should just add instants to this game. A card that's basically impossible to interact with without triggering it is just silly. I would be fine with secrets if you could use silence effects to clear them but if I only have combo pieces in my hand, that one randomly generated secret is going to haunt me the entire match. And I can only interact if I draw my 4 mana get the interaction (supposing he doesn't get objected) and then play the guy. The state of the game compounds this even further.
it depends on the meta u want to see in wild. i used to wonder why people hated pirate warrior in mean streets era so much, but now i dont, the deck loses its ability to kill you on turn 5 or 6, and concedes, you dont get to play your deck, you play to stop their's and go next. i dont think that's interesting, and most of the tribe aggro or keyword piles like "secret" mage, are like this and fall apart once their 2 good minions die. combo is rampant and my favourite games are combo vs aggro, but the aggro decks dont pressure properly, they go wide their board is cleared and they concede. the best pressure in wild is all from discounting minions, arcane giant, molten giant, the DH brute, totem giant + horror, but these decks are mostly attached to quests, druid, dh and warlock, i just realyl cant think of a deck that didnt involve giants or pirates pressuring combo. so u gotta ban a bunch of stuff
Hyper/aggro and uninteractable win cons such as demonseed are making especially late meta very telegraphed. You can not play midrangey or control/value generation because why would you? You would be dead either way
Given the title I was expecting something more like "can you believe they printed this and no one runs it? maybe keep an eye on this card in case it becomes horribly broken suddenly!". as it is, like... yeah i can very much believe that this card they printed for one class would be good in such-and-such other class, that's not really what the title said would be discussed.
this is why I disagree with how "powercreep" is used when comparing cards from different classes. Just because a Hunter spell is objectively better than a Mage spell doesn't mean the Hunter spell powercreeps the Mage spell because one cannot be used in place of another. Some cards are good on paper because they are in a class that can't use it as well. For me a card can only powercreep if it's a class card powercreeping the same class, or a neutral card powercreeping a class card, "powercreeping" between two different classes fundamentally doesn't make sense.
Man what tempo are you talking about? Lifesteal as a concept is the exact opposite of tempo. You lose tempo then you bonk with your jotun summon or 30 mana guy then you are full hp, thats the whole point. The point you got value from lifesteal, already a 2/3 body is just nothing. Warlock would prefer a twinspell lifesteal in every instance. It is not 2016 anymore and deckbuilding cost is much higher than ever. Getting heal not once but TWICE from just one card is much better@@PizzaTuber12345
alot of cards havent had decks developed around them as well because of the monetary aspect of this game. the ability to dust ANY card, even bad legendariew, for EQUAL value, means that NOONE is letting trash cards sit in their boxes, so NOONE is cooki ng witbh these cards. the side to this is powercreep as well, obviously.
I am convinced that half of these were intendes to be Dual Class cards but they changed their mind at the last minute. Kryxis for instance fits into Warlock far more than he fits into DH, but I guess they thought that with nee Discard Warlock support right around the corner in March of The Lich King they decided it would too much. Undead Shaman has the POTENTIAL to be absolutely busted, and it would be if it had acxess to some DK support and vice-versa, but instead is delegated to being a small archetype in a class that barely supports it. Maybe in the future it will get more support, but we'll have to wait. Same thing with Murloc Warlock tbh
Is horn of winter really a GoT reference ? It was a spell in WoW since like 2007 so before the show came out, so it would be a reference to the book ? Was is that popular back then ?
Storm of swords is the 3rd book and it's the first mention of the Horn of Winter (what was made to make the wall) in 2000. Also yes GoT is the biggest fantasy series since Lord of the Rings by a GIGANTIC amount. The lich king is inspired by the others and the Night King in the Show is inspired by the lich king. Funny when stuff like that happens. The night king is only cannon from the show xd
Among communities that enjoyed fantasy like wow absolutely it was, it’s just become insanely popular now thanks to people being a little more tolerant of fantasy elements and a good adaptation
@@FlareIsGone From WoWPedia: "From both his name, occupation, and appearance of his armor, it's been widely speculated amoungst fans that the Lich King was at least partially inspired by two figures from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings series from the world of Middle Earth. These being the Witch-King of Angmar and the King of the Dead Men of the Mountains."
@@FlareIsGone tbh burn DK isn't that bad to play against no? It takes set up and mana cause it says refresh not gain so ideally u're looking at a turn 7-8 OTK, most things in wild kill u by turn 4 or 3, even if you're a control heavy deck (XD) Then u have ur loathebs and what not, keep up the content tho
im happy that secret mechanics dies, it super toxic to play against in wild, this mechanic was needed to make great moves and outperform tour opponent (who play secrets) but when the printed too much secrets its just floor lava
If they actually made DK playable in wild (other than even), im sure horn of winter would see play. Like imagine if they printed 2 mana 3/2 minion with 3 frost rune requirement that said "your frost rune spells cost (1) less" That would be so cool
what are those takes, none of the 'potential combo' cards you show even make sense since they're in the other classes also older cards aren't as good as the new ones. Yeah. That's because of powercreep, through. They WERE strong, when they were released
my brother in christ it's a video about cards that are locked into classes that can't make use of them no shit they'd have to be in other classes to have use XD?
I think a huge reason why so many decks that used to be playable arent playable is due to something you mentioned: why wouldnt you just play neutral pirate package spam decks? They win so fast, arent expensive to make for new players and bot accounts, and outpace more focused aggressive packages. They limit deck building to an insane degree.
Perils in Paradise was supposed to be the best deckbuilding expansion in forever and then they decided to print a bunch of busted pirates 😔
It is not about pirates, but about power creep in general. Pirates beat many archetypes, this is correct, but so do many combo and Reno decks. The only way to make them playable again is to slow down their competitors' wincons (Turn 6 OTK paladin go brrr), nerf value generation (like fr, Marin is way out of league of any treasure generation card we've seen before) and nerf the overpowered board clears, which not only destroy, but silence and prevent respawn.
Everything is too fast
I like wild due to the amount of meme decks I see, then some tryhard comes in with a pirate one, and not even an interesting meme-tier pirate one, just a meta one. (And is also a bot 50% of the time) It's so boring.
Horn of winter is an amazing card that is currently being ran in multiple standard decks, one of which is tier 1 and the other is tier 2. Also horn of winter saw play back when lady deathwhisper was in standard with triple frost rune.
frost DK has been a niche archetype that most players avoid, there just isnt enough playdata to say that its solidified a spot as a good list, let alone any enablers it uses being labelable as good.
@@DavidSmith-cr7mb tho the deck played rn isn’t a frost deck, it’s the razzle dazzler cold feet build
horn is both played in ffu dk (one of the best standard decks pre miniset) and triple frost which was also really good soo idk where ur coming from with that one lmao
Yep, I see it In some high legend decks in standard
It’s literally in every frost deck. Now is frost always playable no but when it is this is good
Horn was in tier two deck just few seconds ago
Top of wild ladder we won't understand
He often talks card purely about wild because his understanding of standard is somehow worse than that of some1 who only watches and no longer plays the game.
I think a lot of these speak to blizzards willingness to try new things for classes - many of these cards or packages have seen use and success in standard and so would be seen as successful designs by that measure. The need for streamlining and ongoing support is something of a wild issue when some of these are forgotten.
I would be interesting to see a power point on what you consider to be the truly successful wild formats. I think there is an interesting discussion to be had on how a diverse format can survive or encourage experimentation with more unusual cards. Or alternatively, some of the more interesting experiments to come about.
you've made me want the return of the Galakrond's archetype, let it be old buffed/reworked cards or new ones. was so much fun back in Descent of the Dragons
Ever since they released that one singular murloc for warlock way back when without any other murlocs for warlock for some reason (why the fuck was seadevil stinger printed?), I've always wanted murloc warlock to be a thing, then it became a thing and I was very very happy. Even then, chum bucket and voidgill felt bad to play because I just couldn't fill my hand with murlocs fast enough. Even Azsharan/sunken scavenger doesn't feel good to play because despite saying "wherever they are", it doesn't buff murlocs generated afterwards (at least when it was in standard). The one warlock murloc that wild brings to the deck is a worse bloodscent vilefin; costs more, worse stats, doesn't dredge.
Horn of Winter is actually played atm... at least a little bit in razzle DK.
I think, in the frost-burn decks of the past, Horn of Winter saw some play, but not a ton. Reason for that was mainly that it was hard to afford playing a card that "does nothing" in those decks, you were too liable to run out of stuff.
Weird thing about Kryxis is that he just has no use in a class like DH. Demon Hunter already has SOOOOO much draw, you just dont need an effect like that.
If Bolf Ramshield found a use, a card that can only ever work with immune boards and no other circumstances, every card in Hearthstone is potentially viable. And most of these are good cards. Probably after another expansion or two, at least some of them will be broken and most will be good.
yes they are good cards thats why the title literally says good cards
@@FlareIsGoneum actually'd the poor guy.
as much as i love the idea of Unliving Champion in DK, i think it would be wayyyyy too consistently OP since its essentially free 100% of the time with just the hero power alone
Field contact, literally the 2 of the 4 core cards of garrote rogue, that dominated early 2020s Worlds, GMs and MTs and is a championship deck.
Idols adoration is great in Raza shadow priest with the pirate package, enables your charge dude and the guy who gets +2 attack when you have a weapon
Nah it is just ok. Other weapon (1 mana 3 durability) deal 1 damage to all enemies after shadow spell is great. It is so much better to just deal 3 damage to all enemies for 1 mana than deal 4 to 1 target for 1 mana...
@@impkiller5932 sure it’s not as good as the other weapon but in a Highlander deck it works out
@@woola7895 I don't want to talk about highlander decks. I just hate them.
@@impkiller5932 brother I’m discussing raza priest
Raza Pirate Priest? Is that genuinely a deck that exists?
I’m still furious that the second garrote became viable in wild it ended up being a toy boat deck instead of a field contact one >:(
Me too. It's such a cool card, but I think it only gets anywhere once a better hand discount engine comes. It really needs something like octobot to come along and discount super cheap minions to 0 to match wilds current pacing.
I remember running garrotte and secret passage in standard years agoo... :(
Idol's Adoration as a Rogue card would be a pretty good joke tbh
When DK was released horn of winter was premium for double/triple frost burn decks. Copying the 0 cost spell was good and comboing with direct damage allowed you to chain more cards or chip in dmg. It may seem not good now since more cards got rune changes allowing more flexibility for rainbow dk. And gaining more health is more appealing then frost burn/midrange
honorable mention: swiftscale trickster. swiftscale trickster always seemed like a weird card to print for rogue... makes it so you can never print a good high cost spell in the future but this literally only works in rogue. would break any other class.
I just want to add Kel'thuzad and the Volatile Skeletons being a very interesting mechanic for Mage where they only released 4 cards in the same expansion and never did anything else.
Technically 5
Earthen Paladin getting two cards and then like two "support" cards
You _could_ find out about the Groovy Cat Gala interaction by going into a custom game with a friend and use any of the minion stealers.
I'm watching these videos as someone who stopped playing a bit before witchwood and the concept of emerald spellstone being "horrifically bad" gives me culture shock.
Horn of winter was good when DK came out it allowed for great burn turns especially when doubled with deathwhisper
I hit legend last month with triple frost DK in standard so Hprn of Winter is definitely playable.
You know, I do run Galakrond the Unbreakable in my Taunt Warrior. Feels decent.
I love playing Rotgill in shudderloc, if you can land a turn 2 Bolner into turn 3 Twin-Fin into turn 4 coin Rotgil, you’re real happy
Horn of winter was played in the best standard deck two weeks ago, double frost razzle dazzler.
you'd think that the entire video being about wild and referencing wild cards and that I have said this EXACT message 500 thousand times would for once EVER make people think that I, the guy who ONLY PLAYS WILD AND ONLY TALKS ABOUT WILD IS TALKING ABOUT FUCKING WILD
@@FlareIsGone mb you did say it was not played in standard in the first minute though
Horn of Winter would 100% see play as soon as Frost DK sees play in Wild. It's just a new class so there's no critical mass of cards to make a fast/combo deck work
Cool video and all. But that BTD6 background music, that's the real deal
Alternate Title: Cards I want to be added to Hunter 😂
This gave me a horrifying idea for a Tavern Brawl, where every deck can build a deck with cards from other classes. I'm genuinely curious to see how that would go, other than Burgle Rogue having the wettest dream of their lives.
Rotgill was actually good in murlock shudder from back when that was really good
If you ran that card you're trolling on my life your Murlocs should have been gorlocs mutanus flurgl tox fin twins clownfish Scargill and Finley only to make your gorlocs + ice fishing actually hit the cards you want to be running
I for one welcome our new, aura overlords and curse the ground that secrets are buried in. They should just add instants to this game. A card that's basically impossible to interact with without triggering it is just silly. I would be fine with secrets if you could use silence effects to clear them but if I only have combo pieces in my hand, that one randomly generated secret is going to haunt me the entire match. And I can only interact if I draw my 4 mana get the interaction (supposing he doesn't get objected) and then play the guy. The state of the game compounds this even further.
My hope is that Perils will pave the way for a true multi class or subclass feature in hearthstone.
it depends on the meta u want to see in wild. i used to wonder why people hated pirate warrior in mean streets era so much, but now i dont, the deck loses its ability to kill you on turn 5 or 6, and concedes, you dont get to play your deck, you play to stop their's and go next. i dont think that's interesting, and most of the tribe aggro or keyword piles like "secret" mage, are like this and fall apart once their 2 good minions die. combo is rampant and my favourite games are combo vs aggro, but the aggro decks dont pressure properly, they go wide their board is cleared and they concede. the best pressure in wild is all from discounting minions, arcane giant, molten giant, the DH brute, totem giant + horror, but these decks are mostly attached to quests, druid, dh and warlock, i just realyl cant think of a deck that didnt involve giants or pirates pressuring combo. so u gotta ban a bunch of stuff
I tried running horn of winter in my frost rune deck, and it's won several games. For my opponents who stole the card.
Hyper/aggro and uninteractable win cons such as demonseed are making especially late meta very telegraphed. You can not play midrangey or control/value generation because why would you? You would be dead either way
Given the title I was expecting something more like "can you believe they printed this and no one runs it? maybe keep an eye on this card in case it becomes horribly broken suddenly!".
as it is, like... yeah i can very much believe that this card they printed for one class would be good in such-and-such other class, that's not really what the title said would be discussed.
Yeah, I agree that it feels more like it should be another, 'Cards that would fit into other classes' video for the most part.
The title is "good cards with nowhere to play them".
Not really sure why you think that title doesn't fit.
If druid had gotten hunter as the tourist beast druid could be legendary maybe😢
Guys I think Flare REALLY likes Hunter
The things I would give for Frostsaber Matriarch in Hunter
Your videos are the best thing to watch while i clean my bathroom
this is why I disagree with how "powercreep" is used when comparing cards from different classes. Just because a Hunter spell is objectively better than a Mage spell doesn't mean the Hunter spell powercreeps the Mage spell because one cannot be used in place of another. Some cards are good on paper because they are in a class that can't use it as well. For me a card can only powercreep if it's a class card powercreeping the same class, or a neutral card powercreeping a class card, "powercreeping" between two different classes fundamentally doesn't make sense.
8:49 warlock just got lightforged blessing on a 2/3/2 body, buddy
When you realise the minion isn't a twin spell
@@abendyman When you realize Tempo > Value
When you realize that somehow the card is STILL bad@@PizzaTuber12345
@@PizzaTuber12345 when you realise that doesn't mean it's the same thing on a body. They're just different cards
Man what tempo are you talking about? Lifesteal as a concept is the exact opposite of tempo. You lose tempo then you bonk with your jotun summon or 30 mana guy then you are full hp, thats the whole point. The point you got value from lifesteal, already a 2/3 body is just nothing. Warlock would prefer a twinspell lifesteal in every instance. It is not 2016 anymore and deckbuilding cost is much higher than ever. Getting heal not once but TWICE from just one card is much better@@PizzaTuber12345
alot of cards havent had decks developed around them as well because of the monetary aspect of this game. the ability to dust ANY card, even bad legendariew, for EQUAL value, means that NOONE is letting trash cards sit in their boxes, so NOONE is cooki ng witbh these cards.
the side to this is powercreep as well, obviously.
I am convinced that half of these were intendes to be Dual Class cards but they changed their mind at the last minute.
Kryxis for instance fits into Warlock far more than he fits into DH, but I guess they thought that with nee Discard Warlock support right around the corner in March of The Lich King they decided it would too much.
Undead Shaman has the POTENTIAL to be absolutely busted, and it would be if it had acxess to some DK support and vice-versa, but instead is delegated to being a small archetype in a class that barely supports it. Maybe in the future it will get more support, but we'll have to wait.
Same thing with Murloc Warlock tbh
Horn of winter is played in standard a bit
Is horn of winter really a GoT reference ? It was a spell in WoW since like 2007 so before the show came out, so it would be a reference to the book ? Was is that popular back then ?
Storm of swords is the 3rd book and it's the first mention of the Horn of Winter (what was made to make the wall) in 2000. Also yes GoT is the biggest fantasy series since Lord of the Rings by a GIGANTIC amount. The lich king is inspired by the others and the Night King in the Show is inspired by the lich king. Funny when stuff like that happens. The night king is only cannon from the show xd
Among communities that enjoyed fantasy like wow absolutely it was, it’s just become insanely popular now thanks to people being a little more tolerant of fantasy elements and a good adaptation
Oh okay interesting ! Warcraft is so full of references sometimes its crazy
@@FlareIsGone From WoWPedia:
"From both his name, occupation, and appearance of his armor, it's been widely speculated amoungst fans that the Lich King was at least partially inspired by two figures from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings series from the world of Middle Earth. These being the Witch-King of Angmar and the King of the Dead Men of the Mountains."
Horn might be playable if they print (after u play a frost spell/frost rune card draw a card)
if they print a card like that i'm gonna jump off a bri-
@@FlareIsGone tbh burn DK isn't that bad to play against no? It takes set up and mana cause it says refresh not gain so ideally u're looking at a turn 7-8 OTK, most things in wild kill u by turn 4 or 3, even if you're a control heavy deck (XD) Then u have ur loathebs and what not, keep up the content tho
I wish murlocklock would come back
make about hero cards like guldan, etc and how can they be good please
What about product 9, isn't he good in hunter ?
im happy that secret mechanics dies, it super toxic to play against in wild, this mechanic was needed to make great moves and outperform tour opponent (who play secrets) but when the printed too much secrets its just floor lava
Horn of winter is in core and I have no idea why
Me coining out two secrets turn 1 and slamming Contract Conjurer
also attack galakrond would be crazy fun with shaman and its 1000000 ways to give face windfury (ignore that one of them is another hero card)
Horn of winter got me to legend is standard, what are you even going on about.
probably wild. there isnt enough deck data to properly say that a deck with horn of winter in it is a top tier deck or a dark horse meta deck.
@@DavidSmith-cr7mb ffu razzle dk is a meta deck that runs horn of winter
They have the use of being useless
Nice
If they actually made DK playable in wild (other than even), im sure horn of winter would see play.
Like imagine if they printed 2 mana 3/2 minion with 3 frost rune requirement that said "your frost rune spells cost (1) less"
That would be so cool
what are those takes, none of the 'potential combo' cards you show even make sense since they're in the other classes
also older cards aren't as good as the new ones. Yeah. That's because of powercreep, through. They WERE strong, when they were released
my brother in christ it's a video about cards that are locked into classes that can't make use of them no shit they'd have to be in other classes to have use XD?