The part that pisses me off the most is NASCAR actually praised the format. So, as long as they think this is entertaining and it continues bringing the money in they're not gonna change a thing.
I can almost guarantee it has something to do with tv deals. I wonder if tv stations forced a “playoff” type format onto nascar to try to drive ratings and compete with other sports
I feel like people are missing a bigger story unfolding - this kind of manipulation where teams are under direct orders from Chevy/Ford/Toyota reps to effectively throw races if the situation calls for it, could violate match fixing laws in the US. Especially as you're asking people to gamble on races in good faith that every driver is trying to win. Let's put it this way - if a conversation was leaked between Jerry Jones (Dallas Cowboys) and Stan Kronke (LA Rams) where the Cowboys were asked to throw a game so the Rams could make the playoffs, people would be going to jail.
You have put so well into words something which has been bothering me more and more through the years. Beyond this sort of “match fixing,” I would think that referees whose stated goal is “entertainment” and not solely fairness and ensuring an even field might preclude that sport from being bet on. I mean surely some bets are made somewhere over the outcome of WWE wrestling matches, but no one would consider that “sports betting,” right?
@@b.w.22if we all know that someone is going to win a match or a race, then why should we bet on another one winning? NASCAR play-offs feel like as if it's kayfabe which NASCAR and its TV partners try to make us believe that it's real. And I'm saying this as a somewhat newer fan who doesn't know everything too much
I'm curious if you have a source for that. I don't know that your wrong but all the instances that I know of in which legal action was taken (or at least investigated by law enforcement) against someone for match fixing, the match fixing was done for betting purposes. Is match fixing for non-gambling purposes illegal? I did do a very quick Google search to see what came up and couldn't find anything talking about it.
Not even lose it big, just finish second. 35 wins and a second. Or hell, 35 wins and a 3rd can lose the championship, and the champ can be winless as long as they finish ahead of the other 3 in the last race.
@@ryanhelms2976 The fact that Joey Logano wasn't even in *Top 16* in points, let alone Top 4, yet still made it to the Cup Series finals this year is probably the most damning indictment of the playoffs format
The worst part is the media coverage tries to make the playoffs the "entertainment" and not the actual racing itaelf. The booth talks more about the playoffs now than the actual race. Totally ridiculous. This system was dumb in 2014 and slightly less dumb with playoff points. A default game 7 moment doesn't make a championship fight "entertaining" it just makes it less legitimate.
I think this is such a good point, that the focus has been taken even from winning races, the thing that was of singular importance to teams in the past.
If Nascar is so obsessed with a Game 7 format then make it like the ending of Cars where only the contenders are on track, but the moment you put others out there you'll never take away manipulation.
True. The aura of celebration was never really felt "big" as the entire pit was literally shouting and screaming over the entire Barricade Squad shenanigan. Blaney put on one hell of a charge and dare I say - entertainment - during those closing 80-ish laps, but all the booth, team radios, and camera shots quickly switched to the Barricade Squad. In a way, it was a blessing in disguise for the fans that the entire media quickly switched to that shit show as they inadvertently showcased just how exploitative the system is.
@@lukmaanpratomo6866 Yeah, the race was beautiful at the front. Nascar and Goodyear finally found a tire and package that can put on a good show at Martinsville in this car, and it got ruined by bullshit. Bell and Byron both deserved disqualifications, and the 1, 3, and 23 should all be parked next week.
The biggest problem is that NASCAR’s incompetence reflects an entire motorsport industry, especially pavement, short track racing. I’m involved in a local short track team and have an equity position in a local race team. When NASCAR is doing well with benefit because of more interest at the grass roots level. When incompetence and utter hubris by NASCAR is shown in time and time again it moves people away from the entire motorsport industry, which directly impact the local levels at a greater percentage than NASCAR will see
No, the current regular season points system is better than the Winston cup points system, 185 points for 1st is way too much, should be no more than 40 points for a win, a season long one point per position system with single bonus points for winning stages and qualifying on pole, this would award the most consistent drivers for entire season
@edruggiero1648 not by much, theres a reason they scrapped that system, it awards drivers for playing it safe and not driving at 100%, the less points the better, having 1 points per position would force all drivers to drive at 100%, make it so the higher you finish in points at the end of season the more money you get
Bubba either actually had a flat tire, or is REALLY good at faking it, because he was almost out of control the last two laps. The 3 and 1 are blatant as hell and impossible to ignore.
I agree, I was watching it from his in car , and he was catching it trying to keep the car from spinning out in the corner, then on the last lap the 7 actually rammed him into the corner before the 20 got to him, if he faked it he at least started his performance early because he ran several lap with know one behind him and he was fighting the car in the corners
LOL his car was inspected post race and no damage was found... radio transmission proves what his team was trying to pull.... he couldnt handle it because if you watched live dude was going near backward in traffic.... If you think he didnt do something you either didnt watch the race or just are a hardcore bubba glazer....
i don't like team orders, but maybe you should see the F1 global ratings compared to stock car, sports car, and V8. millions of people have no issue with F1 so shouldn't we want to be redneck F1? I don't, but many people around the world either don't care or just deal with it.
@willgriffin5647 and the ratings would be even better if team orders weren't a thing. F1 is a global sport, NASCAR is regional trying to compare the two ratings wise is a very silly thing.
Not really. At least in F1 teams don't help rival teams (apart from RB and RedBull but they're both owned by RedBull and that's another can of worms). Oh and F1 has a legitimate championship and not playoffs. You know Verstappen will most likely win this year because he's been the best all season.
We didn’t know how good we had it with the 10 driver OG Chase for the Cup of 2004-2011 where wins did not automatically guarantee Chase spots Tony Stewart vs Carl Edwards feels like a lifetime ago
That dam of legitimacy has burst so bad the town (sport) of NASCAR is being completely swept away and the mayor (Jim France) is saying nothing is wrong
Putting in Larson doesn’t change things. Chevy didn’t make a wall to get Byron in, they made a wall to get a Chevy in. If you put any Chevy in the final 4, then you’re not punishing the OEM, they got what they wanted out of the situation.
lol then we would say out Denny Hamlin in instead, but he’s also a Toyota, so put chase Elliot in, wait he’s also a Chevy. So in conclusion, have a 3 driver chanpionship
@@jermaineboyd6594 who?? include a Denny or Larson. Two drivers from the teams they just got done punishing. If nascar wants to send a message obviously don’t do that
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! Finally a media personality who said the very thing I've been saying since 2017, the networks, sponsors, and manufacturers have this grip on NASCAR I've never seen before and they've sucked the legitimacy out of NASCAR
That’s the crazy thing, this isn’t team racing it’s manufacture racing. It’s almost as if RCR, HMS, Trackhouse don’t even matter as separate organizations anymore. It’s just Chevy. Ross got ran over by Byron at Texas, had beef with every Hendrick driver except maybe Bowman, then just helps the 24 to the finish line instead of helping his team
in 2013 at the fall Texas weekend, there was a handful of drivers that had an autograph session, Truex being one of them. I remember telling him he got a raw deal at MWR that wasn't of his doing, and he said to me, yeah I agree.
But unfortunately the 2011 tiebreaker with Edwards and Stewart made NASCAR think "hey, if this can happen with 2 drivers, then how about we make it 16, then 12, then 8, and 4?"
I feel like the only reason that Bubba and Bell pulled that move is because they knew Chevy was blocking for byron, and nobody was going to get past them
They arent on the same team... its pretty clear that was the plan 15 laps or so before it happened... no toyota in the championship 4.... that came from higher up.
Fun fact: The old NASCAR points system and a Euro Soccer league (Premier?) had the best way to determine a true champion. Total reliance on a fair regular season. The soccer league created in season tournaments to counter a run away champion.
Simple and effective. But the problem is, now, the casual average fan does not have a clue as to what real racing is. They've only known the contrived and heavily manufactured races and finishes.
@craigstephenson7676 I understood why they were mad the race at Watkins Glen was a stinker. But that was the fault of the car and not so much because the race lacked mandatory cautions. And sometimes, races just end up like that sometimes. NASCAR fans have been gaslit to believe what we have now is real racing, which it isn't. It's more akin to WWE than it is to a Motorsport.
@@samharris3508 yeah but the Indy RC and COTA that year were decent (COTA was great until the OT shenanigans) and as soon as they brought back stage cautions they made that Charlotte roval race worse.
As an F1 fan in addition to NASCAR, yesterday's race makes the F1 season finale from Abu Dhabi from 2021 (the most controversial F1 race of all time in my view, though "Crashgate", the 2005 US GP & the Austrian GP of 2002 is right up there) look like child's play. It is absolutely embarrassing for NASCAR to allow something like this to happen. Things like this are also the main reason why F1 & Indycar will never implement the playoffs to determine their champions, though Indycar lately has been trying to be like NASCAR in the way they do things (ex: implementing the charter system).
I hope Sawyer is just being a PR puppet for the France family & he doesn't actually believe this nonsense that comes out of his mouth. "the fans enjoy the playoffs." WHO? 90% of the fans hate it. the amount of games being played from both Chevy & Toyota on the last lap is enough proof this is not a legit way to crown a champ. I hated the OG 10 race chase for the cup but even that is better than these BS gimmicks. the NASCAR playoff format is a joke. You had multiple cars creating a moving blockade for William Bryon and Bubba Wallace slowing up to give C Bell a spot. This isn't racing. Its a clown show.
If I ran Nascar heres my answers. As far as this weekend 1,3, and 23 all get parked for next weekend. Not just drivers, the entire team. The 24 and 20 both get a DQ from the championship and its now a championship three. Next year get rid of the playoffs. A season long championship the way it should be. The sport is done if we have manufacturers activily fixing the finish of a race.
They really have lost control. If yesterday isn’t the straw that breaks the camel’s back in regards to this format being abolished, then I don’t know what is.
The one part of this that I hate more than anything is the fact that Logano, Reddick and Blaney are below the cutline without wins and they are contending for a title instead of guys like Larson and Bell, who’ve been good all year. THAT is the true issue with this system.
There's also the fact that one of the worst active drivers gets a lucky win and is immediately put into the playoffs despite having been damn near last place in points, when countless other drivers deserved that spot way more.
@ And they will argue that the playoffs were exciting, despite the fact that the first two rounds were just busy work, getting rid of everyone who we knew was going to be eliminated. Meanwhile, there’s five people in contention for the title in the Winston Format and Larson, Bell and Elliott are contending in the non-playoff standings, who are deserving of it due to their consistency.
i just don't see that in racing, watching a blockade form in front of keselowski or watching bubba "have a tire go down" just made the players involved look like total moron idiots, very blatantly. I don't think all the Cbell fans that he gained this year will be following him into next after that, same with Byron, that is total embarrassment. Dillon should just retire at this point the guy has made a complete ass out of himself this season, he is nascar's all time lolcow at this point this year,
Personally, I've reached a breaking point with this sport. Unless something changes in the off season, I'm going to boycott NASCAR. There have just been so many issues this year that completely get in the way of what I would consider to be the bet year racing we have had in the modern era. All the BS that has gone on this year has ruined my enjoyment of the sport, and there's no point in me watching something I do not enjoy.
Can we give Bubba props for doing a decent job making it look like something was actually wrong? The way he was taking those corners, if I did not hear the audio i genuinely wouldve thought he had a problem
Like when RCR or Hendrick would enter additional cars to make sure the 3 or the 24 wouldn't finish last? This has been going for longer than the playoffs.
It's crazy! It's almost like the person with the most points at the end of the year should be the champion! I wonder what it would be like if other motorsports tried such a novel system.
I think they should just have a Championship 3 at Phoenix with the 3 race winners. If you just give the fourth spot to Larson, Chevy still gets what they wanted anyway. If you want to send a message you need to penalize both Toyota and Chevy.
It all goes back to NASCAR. They created this format, and this is what it promotes. This is why we need a year long championship format. Also, the OEMs need to be put in their place. This is NASCAR'S sport, and the OEMs just participate. Something has to change.
If i had a nickel for every time NASCAR lost control of Round 8, i’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice. Yes i still remember when the 2015 round of 8 i think all three races have some controversy. Also, i would bet that Joey Logano is gonna be the champion, because “the history doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes”
Agree with this 100%. I had no dog in that fight yesterday whatsoever... I was just watching a decent race until it became evident what was going on in those final laps. On top of everything else, Keselowski would normally have moved one of them in front of him, but I'm sure he didn't want to cause a yellow with Blaney in position to win. I'm done with NASCAR for now. It's become a waste of time. Until things change, I'll find something else to do.
Sell the sport. That’s the call NASCAR should make. Pool a few billion dollars together and buy them out once and for all. Then fire everyone in the front office. Downsize for a few years and rebuild the sport, its fanbase, and its legitimacy.
Problem is the Frances don't want to sell it...and who would buy it?! Would anyone see money in it with everyone involved disgruntled and a fan base that's NOT happy with what it's become!?
Easy, make the racing fair and equitable, not total and extreme favoritism for only shitrolling!!!!! ULTIMATE TRUTH!!!!! CORRUPT NASCAR BULLSH-T SHITSHOW FOR OVER 50+ YEARS!!!!!! FIRST 12 RACES THIS YEAR, FORD WAS ARRANGED TO FAIL, LIKE MANY, MANY, DECADES BEFORE THIS, CHEVY WAS ARRANGED TO SUCCEED ( SEE ALL MY RESPONSES, BEEN READING, WATCHING SINCE 1968 - ALL I'VE SEEN IS TOTAL GM/SHITCAR FAVORITISM, ENOUGH TO MAKE ANYONE SICK!!!!!) SEEN THE DEATHS OF 2 OF FORD'S BEST, AND MULTIPLE ATTEMPTS AT J.ROUSH'S DEMISE. ALL WHILE NASCRAP HANDS EVERY ADVANTAGE TO SHITROLLING!!! NOW NASCRAP/SHITROLLING HAVE ARRANGED 40 OF LAST 50 YEARS MFG. TITLES( 2/3 OF NASCRAP'S COMPLETE HISTORY) IN 2020, CHEVY HAD ONLY 3 WINS, THE RACE BEFORE THE PLAYOFFS, WHEN NASCRAP STEPS IN, HAS A "MEETING" WITH ALL CHEVY TEAMS ONLY, THEN SHITCARS WIN 6 OF LAST 11 AND DRIVER'S TITLE - ARRANGED!!!!! THE ULTIMATE TRUTH!!!!!!!
@@runrafarunthebestintheworld he could afford it, and turn it around...he's a longtime fan himself, I could see somebody like him buying it and saving it, I'd rather see NASCAR reformed than to kill itself slowly and a split happen, a strong healthy NASCAR is essential, it's part of our American culture.
Update: The 1, 3 & 23 have been Penalized for Violating the NASCAR Member Code of Conduct at Martinsville. The Crew Chief, and Spotter for Each Car, As well as a Team Executive from Each Organization have been Suspended for This Weekend's Championship Race at Phoenix. Along with The Loss of 50 Driver & Owner Points as well as a $100,000 Fine for Each of The Drivers & Owners.
People get mad when nascar lets drivers and teams do what they want on track but then love when teams go against nascars “tyrannical” business. Pick a side
By citing Bell's move as a "safety" violation, JGR can't fight back and NASCAR can ignore the glaring manipulation of the finishing order by HMS and Chevy and pretend it never happened. 23XI tried to counter, guilty, but a response to what was happening. Bubba's CC saw it. This is a joke. Shouldn't happen either way. Agree DQ both
A Few Thoughts: First, if this manipulation goes unchecked, how can anyone legitimately trust NASCAR sports betting? Secondly, if the actions of select Chevy and Toyota teams create a negative perception of NASCAR among fans and media, how does this not devalue the charter of Ford teams that played by the rules? Could this lead to further litigation down the road?
The only way the racing manipulation will go away is if they get rid of this current playoff format. That's literally when all of this started to get out of control.
Eric Brought up a good point, this behavior isnt brand new, it's been ongoing for so long, and these arent the only teams that have done some spotty stuff and NOT gotten penalized for it. Eric brought up the roval race, where someone (i forget the details watch his vid) refused to pass, with some damming radio evidence, but they were not penalized. This is just the meta and there hasn't been any strength against it. Nascar needs to let this one go, but edit this whole stupid format and rulset for next year
The Roval race was Cole Custer - 2 years ago. He & SHR were penalized 50 driver points, 50 owner points, & $100,000. The one that wasn't was penalized was Eric Jones being told not to pass Denny Hamlin, 4 years ago. I thought that should have been a penalty too. Ironically, that was at Martinsville!
ARRANGED BY NASCRAP TO PENALIZE FORD OR TOYOTA ONLY, LOOK AT THE HOOD LOUVERS ON THE CARS, RFK ADJUSTED THEM TO GET A LARGER OPENING, WAS FINED, PENALIZED THE MOST EVER IN HISTORY BY NASCRAP, BUT CHEVY HAS OPENED THE REAR OF THE SAME LOUVERS WITH A HOLE, CREATING A VACUUM FOR THE FRT. DOWNFORCE - WITHOUT, YES, W I T H O U T ANY PENALTY!!!! CORRUPT P.O.S. SHITROLLING/NASCAR ALWAYS FAVORS THE SHITROLLING/GM BRAND HEAVILY, FOR OVER HALF A CENTURY!!!!!!! NASCRAP'S EXECS. SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE AND FINED BIG $ AND JAILED!!!!!!!!
Go Back To The Original Chase Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver/2004-2013 10 Race Format With Chase Points And No Points Resets For The NASCAR Cup Series. But Bring Back The Full-Season Points Format For Both The Xfinity Series And Truck Series And That's It.
I was there gone to both martinsville races this year and it’s the first time in years and god it was so damn obvious it was so obvious what was happening if nascar doesn’t do something it just proves even more they’ve lost touch with the sport and its fans
I think NASCAR really bit themselves by turning a blind eye to Jones refusing to pass Hamlin because of championship standings a few years ago. This was a predictable consequence of that: more team orders.
This "sport" isn't a sport anymore. It hasn't been for a while. It's a game show. This entire round proves that. JL winning and undeservingly fighting for a championship being 15th in points, while Kyle Larson a top 3 driver on the planet, 6 wins, 1600 laps led, dominated the season with Tyler and Christopher, and only Tyler made it in. Not to mention teams have little to no respect for the officials. They do wtv they want. Again this race proves that. 2 manipulations of the finish and none of them were addressed. It's BS. It's horrible. There's a lot of other issues wrong with nascar but those 2 are the biggest ones rn. No discipline, no punishment, nothing. And this points system is putting these teams in the position to manipulate the finish, and to do wtv it takes to succeed.
Exactly the opposite, the France family has unchecked control and it has destroyed the credibility of the product. Loved it when it was every man for himself!
Agreed, Eric Estepp is saying the drivers have 0 respect for NASCAR, but when it's proven and on display NASCAR is incompetent and have allowed the sport to devolve into this, and NASCAR really doesn't care about the fans, drivers, or teams, only big TV contracts which only line the France's pockets, making fans happy? No way!
I probably will watch early season races, especially if 23XI don't get the injunction and have to qualify on speed, but once IndyCar and F1 start, I'm out...unless NASCAR end up pissimg me off even more before then...
October 10, 2022. Cole Custer & Stewart Haas Racing were penalized 50 driver points, 50 owner points & $100,000 for manipulating the outcome of a race. Obviously, that is not enough to discourage this. The #1, #3 & #23 team should get at least double that. They made a total joke of Nascar racing. Disgusting!
Not even a Bell fan but easily one of the more talented drivers in the field. If they crowned their champion like they used to, like every other Motorsport, Bell would easily be a top driver every year
Completely well deserved!!!! You obviously haven't watched how SPOON FED this team is!!!!!!! WHILE UNJUSTLY, FORD IS TREATED LIKE CRAP ON A CONSTANT BASIS FOR DECADES!!!! ULTIMATE TRUTH!!!!!
NASCAR needs the following: 1) The Latford Winston Cup format back with the 2007-2010 points format. (Instead of 175 points for a win before bonus points, 185 before bonus points.) With this, bring back bonus points with the following: - 5 points for leading a lap - 5 points for leading the most laps - 5 points for the pole sitter on qualifying day - 5 points for the fastest lap of the race - 5 points for the fastest 4-tire pit stop of the race Even keep stage racing around in its current form in terms of the points; just fet rid of the stage cautions. 2) Get rid of the Charter system and bring back the top-35 in owners points rule. 3) Bring back 43 car fields. 4) New sponsors to come in, or bring back old ones. 5) This is out of NASCAR's hands, but they also need a better economy. The final 4 should be Larson, Bell, Reddick, and either Chase Elliott or William Byron. Logano and Blaney should both not be in contention.
Its ridiculous to say "remove both Bell and Byron". Bell was penalized, his points are where they are. Byron should be penalized based on the behavior we saw, but that's a hard sell since Byron didn't actually do anything himself. But that penalty would likely drop him and let Bell back in. No reason to leapfrog over him and put Larson in. Bell also wouldn't have needed to make that final move if Byron had lost a few positions without a wall blocking for him. Bell got screwed on the decision of it all. Also, Bell didn't do anything that egregious. Without Chastain's wallride a few years ago, there'd be no rule against Bell's actions, and it would just be seen as aggressive racing to the line. Chastain rode the wall with reckless abandon, never attempting to actually drive the corner. I can accept that is a penalty. But Bell overdrove, trying to make a pass and ended up in the wall. None of that is a penalty. So the penalty is because he finished the lap as quickly as he could after hitting the wall? That's ridiculous, last time I checked, they are running a race here. TL;DR: Bell did not make a 'kick him out' maneuver, just an aggressive racing maneuver. The behavior that got Byron in is an absolute joke to the idea of racing.
Did you seemingly miss the part where bubba wallace drove literally backward for multiple laps so that bell could catch him and pass him ??? Live on broadcast it was obvious what bubba was doing..... post race inspection proved ZERO issues with bubbas tires or car. Toyota did not have a man in the championship 4 and they tried to make it happen.... how does your logic make any sense at all ???
@@seanheaney8303 Bell already lost that position with the penalty that was assessed to him. If Byron were removed or penalized in points for what occurred to protect him (suppose the same penalty applied to him that was applied to Bell and score him as the last car on his lap), the Championship should be open to whomever has more points after the penalties. Otherwise Bell wouldn't really be penalized with points, but just disqualified. But this is all hypothetical as Byron is not being penalized, it doesn't really matter. And I'll also argue, if the Chevys aren't blocking for the past 10-20 laps, does the 23 even have a need to drop back and help out Bell? Would Bell have needed to try and ride the wall to get in? Bell is literally watching cars on the track fix the race to keep him out of the Championship. This went on for an extended period of time. So I have a hard time holding the behavior that occurred in response to that at the same level as the long blockade.
@@Matalito the issue is moot, Bell commited multiple violations. He commited a wall ride and the bubba backwards driving... that would be 2 penalties seperate. Then his team is LIVE on radio asking and a calling around to get those spots.. So actually 3 penalties on Bell. Byron only has ONE not Three... byrons team has ZERO comms with other teams asking for help, byron did not ask for anything via the radio. There is enough evidence the manipulation was done by Chevy and Chevy alone. Possibly chevys nascar executive calling and asked all the chevy crew chiefs hey get are guy in... how is that Byrons fault??? Even if you give him 1 penalty for what happened BEHIND him. Bell has 3 penalties wall ride, bubba racing backward (btw a MUCH riskyer and dangerous move) & his team had comms asking for other teams to do this. Lets take it one further NASCAR ITSELF damaged the outcome of the race.... when on yellow Kyle Busches wheel fell off, nascar started the race again despite the wheel being on track, then called the caution before the drivers even made it 20 feet( they didnt even make it to a scoring loop).. the broadcasters were yelling for them not to start even 30 second prior to nascar restarting it anyway. This cost Byron the race lead, made blaneys magical comeback a reality etc. Had this caution not cost multiple playoff drivers major/ important track position its possible NONE of this even happens to start. So you could argue this started by nascar attempting to fix the race themselves by making a terribly odd call to restart the race... Finally Bell did NOTHING to earn his way in, he honestly had a terrible race. He spun, his fault. His crew messed up on pit road. Amongst other issues... there is ZERO reason this situation happens if he races a good clean race scores an easy top 15 hes in... he fluked... One other important thing, it is obvious chevy is who fixed the race and toyota also attempted... ALL OF THE OTHER 4 drivers left either were chevy or toyota. So your going to penalize Byron & his team for doing nothing wrong but then allow another chevy or toyota driver to benefit ??? When it was the manufacturers who attempted to fix the race how is that fair ???
This doesn’t have anything to do with the video, but the next gen nascars have been added to Forza Motorsport 8, you should check it out. Nice to see NASCARS in a game again.
Shit like this was inevitable with this format. You either: Go back to a season long championship with stage points and larger bonuses for winning races; or a 10 race chase where only winners in the top 20 and the regular season points champion are locked in.
Absolutely, because the original chase from 2004-2010 despite having a points reset, had somewhat normal battles without the interference of playoff points, stages or round point resets, or that 1 race championship crap that turns the final race into the finale from Cars
What do you think the call NASCAR should have made?
Yes
-Suspend the 1, 3, 20, 23, and 24 cheifs
-Penize the 1, 3 and 23 50 points
-DSQ the 20 and the 24.
Suspend everyone involved, And add Larson in.
DQ the 20 and the 24. Penalize the 23, the 1, and the 3. Even though I hate Kyle Larson, but he should be in over Bell and Byron.
all penalized 50 points
The part that pisses me off the most is NASCAR actually praised the format. So, as long as they think this is entertaining and it continues bringing the money in they're not gonna change a thing.
I can almost guarantee it has something to do with tv deals. I wonder if tv stations forced a “playoff” type format onto nascar to try to drive ratings and compete with other sports
@@essayegg6990as I recall it was Nextel & NBC that forced the issue 20 years ago
They'll just take all the money from the contract. That's what NASCAR has proven to do for 25 years now
Only way to make NASCAR listen is to boycott the sport.
@@TheCloudCreationI am not watching the cup race in Phoenix.
I feel like people are missing a bigger story unfolding - this kind of manipulation where teams are under direct orders from Chevy/Ford/Toyota reps to effectively throw races if the situation calls for it, could violate match fixing laws in the US. Especially as you're asking people to gamble on races in good faith that every driver is trying to win.
Let's put it this way - if a conversation was leaked between Jerry Jones (Dallas Cowboys) and Stan Kronke (LA Rams) where the Cowboys were asked to throw a game so the Rams could make the playoffs, people would be going to jail.
...✅🏁🏁🏁🏁🏁
You have put so well into words something which has been bothering me more and more through the years. Beyond this sort of “match fixing,” I would think that referees whose stated goal is “entertainment” and not solely fairness and ensuring an even field might preclude that sport from being bet on. I mean surely some bets are made somewhere over the outcome of WWE wrestling matches, but no one would consider that “sports betting,” right?
@@b.w.22if we all know that someone is going to win a match or a race, then why should we bet on another one winning? NASCAR play-offs feel like as if it's kayfabe which NASCAR and its TV partners try to make us believe that it's real. And I'm saying this as a somewhat newer fan who doesn't know everything too much
I'm curious if you have a source for that. I don't know that your wrong but all the instances that I know of in which legal action was taken (or at least investigated by law enforcement) against someone for match fixing, the match fixing was done for betting purposes. Is match fixing for non-gambling purposes illegal? I did do a very quick Google search to see what came up and couldn't find anything talking about it.
Did NASCAR take down your last video? Why would they censor my goat...
Well... a format where a driver can win the 35 first races of the season and by losing the last one he would lose the championship can't be right.
Not even lose it big, just finish second. 35 wins and a second.
Or hell, 35 wins and a 3rd can lose the championship, and the champ can be winless as long as they finish ahead of the other 3 in the last race.
@@ryanhelms2976 The fact that Joey Logano wasn't even in *Top 16* in points, let alone Top 4, yet still made it to the Cup Series finals this year is probably the most damning indictment of the playoffs format
The playoff legitimacy dam has bursted in a way Toby & the Flood could only dream of.
A T&F episode reference? Not what I was expecting
Saw your comment on Denny delivers video lol
the baked bean floodwater won't stop
Goated comment actually
@@cykablyatman6242 It was more likely Tomato Soup
The worst part is the media coverage tries to make the playoffs the "entertainment" and not the actual racing itaelf. The booth talks more about the playoffs now than the actual race. Totally ridiculous. This system was dumb in 2014 and slightly less dumb with playoff points. A default game 7 moment doesn't make a championship fight "entertaining" it just makes it less legitimate.
I think this is such a good point, that the focus has been taken even from winning races, the thing that was of singular importance to teams in the past.
Exactly. I'm sick of watching the same 4 people every race.
I think it’s finally time for the playoffs to go if yesterday’s shenanigans aren’t enough to get rid of it idk what will at this point
What happened?
If Nascar is so obsessed with a Game 7 format then make it like the ending of Cars where only the contenders are on track, but the moment you put others out there you'll never take away manipulation.
Or maybe we can put on 36 different championships at every single race. Imagine what drama with 36 cars battling for the championship every sunday.
Poor Ryan Blaney’s impressive performance gets overshadowed by this mess. 😡
True. The aura of celebration was never really felt "big" as the entire pit was literally shouting and screaming over the entire Barricade Squad shenanigan.
Blaney put on one hell of a charge and dare I say - entertainment - during those closing 80-ish laps, but all the booth, team radios, and camera shots quickly switched to the Barricade Squad.
In a way, it was a blessing in disguise for the fans that the entire media quickly switched to that shit show as they inadvertently showcased just how exploitative the system is.
@@lukmaanpratomo6866 Yeah, the race was beautiful at the front. Nascar and Goodyear finally found a tire and package that can put on a good show at Martinsville in this car, and it got ruined by bullshit. Bell and Byron both deserved disqualifications, and the 1, 3, and 23 should all be parked next week.
The biggest problem is that NASCAR’s incompetence reflects an entire motorsport industry, especially pavement, short track racing. I’m involved in a local short track team and have an equity position in a local race team. When NASCAR is doing well with benefit because of more interest at the grass roots level. When incompetence and utter hubris by NASCAR is shown in time and time again it moves people away from the entire motorsport industry, which directly impact the local levels at a greater percentage than NASCAR will see
MAKE THE WINSTON CUP POINTS SYSTEM GREAT AGAIN!!! SPREAD THE WORD!!!
No one wants -400 point leads and don’t even have to run last 2 races , locked up
@@SpreadAUstill better than this
@@SpreadAU there are currently 4 drivers within 100 points of 1st in the Winston Cup system
No, the current regular season points system is better than the Winston cup points system, 185 points for 1st is way too much, should be no more than 40 points for a win, a season long one point per position system with single bonus points for winning stages and qualifying on pole, this would award the most consistent drivers for entire season
@edruggiero1648 not by much, theres a reason they scrapped that system, it awards drivers for playing it safe and not driving at 100%, the less points the better, having 1 points per position would force all drivers to drive at 100%, make it so the higher you finish in points at the end of season the more money you get
Bubba either actually had a flat tire, or is REALLY good at faking it, because he was almost out of control the last two laps. The 3 and 1 are blatant as hell and impossible to ignore.
I agree. That car *looked* like a handful.
Honestly yes. A slow puncture is probable and he could have tried to get to the end rather than pitting.
But the Chevy one was really obvious.
I agree, I was watching it from his in car , and he was catching it trying to keep the car from spinning out in the corner, then on the last lap the 7 actually rammed him into the corner before the 20 got to him, if he faked it he at least started his performance early because he ran several lap with know one behind him and he was fighting the car in the corners
LOL his car was inspected post race and no damage was found... radio transmission proves what his team was trying to pull.... he couldnt handle it because if you watched live dude was going near backward in traffic....
If you think he didnt do something you either didnt watch the race or just are a hardcore bubba glazer....
@@seanheaney8303 it ain't that deep, dude. If it was shady, then he deserved to be penalized. No bias here.
Went to a Nascar race and a Formula 1 race broke out.
Underrated af😂
i don't like team orders, but maybe you should see the F1 global ratings compared to stock car, sports car, and V8. millions of people have no issue with F1 so shouldn't we want to be redneck F1? I don't, but many people around the world either don't care or just deal with it.
@willgriffin5647 and the ratings would be even better if team orders weren't a thing. F1 is a global sport, NASCAR is regional trying to compare the two ratings wise is a very silly thing.
Nascar is even worst with diferent teams working together for the OEM's
Not really.
At least in F1 teams don't help rival teams (apart from RB and RedBull but they're both owned by RedBull and that's another can of worms).
Oh and F1 has a legitimate championship and not playoffs.
You know Verstappen will most likely win this year because he's been the best all season.
As Ronald Reagan says, “Christopher Bell, tear down this wall”.
He didn't say that, though
@@Atrail_Mckinley4786he did I was there
@@Atrail_Mckinley4786Yes he did, I was also there
F Toyota. USA
@bowtie3 ironic because Toyota is the only NASCAR manufacturer who actually makes the majority of their American bought cars in America lmao
We didn’t know how good we had it with the 10 driver OG Chase for the Cup of 2004-2011 where wins did not automatically guarantee Chase spots
Tony Stewart vs Carl Edwards feels like a lifetime ago
The ten driver chase was only '04-'06. '07-'10 had the top twelve in points, and '11-'13 had the wildcard mess.
Still not a good format though.
Glaringly obvious problem... the playoffs suck.
Brad K behind the #3 be like. "Move damnit!!!"
AD’s radio literally made me fucking sick to my stomach
Why? It's been happening for years, you should be used to it.
That dam of legitimacy has burst so bad the town (sport) of NASCAR is being completely swept away and the mayor (Jim France) is saying nothing is wrong
nascar died with the playoffs, not with dale
Edit : I don’t want to be that guy and i know this isn’t a lot but TY for the 80 likes!
✔️✔️✔️✔️✔️✔️
500% facts
For me it died with the Gen 7 car, I HATE HATE HATE playoffs, but I HATE HATE HATE Gen 7 1,000× more!
Dale would never have let the playoffs happen.
@@spartan5713 i know 😫
Putting in Larson doesn’t change things. Chevy didn’t make a wall to get Byron in, they made a wall to get a Chevy in. If you put any Chevy in the final 4, then you’re not punishing the OEM, they got what they wanted out of the situation.
lol then we would say out Denny Hamlin in instead, but he’s also a Toyota, so put chase Elliot in, wait he’s also a Chevy. So in conclusion, have a 3 driver chanpionship
More fun watch Larson because he goes for it lol
@@RUSH240 some people have actually been saying three driver championship
@KenC4242 or extended a 5th driver I heard from a live reaction.
@@jermaineboyd6594 who?? include a Denny or Larson. Two drivers from the teams they just got done punishing. If nascar wants to send a message obviously don’t do that
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! Finally a media personality who said the very thing I've been saying since 2017, the networks, sponsors, and manufacturers have this grip on NASCAR I've never seen before and they've sucked the legitimacy out of NASCAR
Ask Michael Waltrip about team racing. They crucified him for doing this.
They put his team out of business
That’s the crazy thing, this isn’t team racing it’s manufacture racing. It’s almost as if RCR, HMS, Trackhouse don’t even matter as separate organizations anymore. It’s just Chevy. Ross got ran over by Byron at Texas, had beef with every Hendrick driver except maybe Bowman, then just helps the 24 to the finish line instead of helping his team
in 2013 at the fall Texas weekend, there was a handful of drivers that had an autograph session, Truex being one of them. I remember telling him he got a raw deal at MWR that wasn't of his doing, and he said to me, yeah I agree.
Nobody ever wanted playoffs. I’m so lost on that.
But unfortunately the 2011 tiebreaker with Edwards and Stewart made NASCAR think "hey, if this can happen with 2 drivers, then how about we make it 16, then 12, then 8, and 4?"
They have lost control since 2004
I feel like the only reason that Bubba and Bell pulled that move is because they knew Chevy was blocking for byron, and nobody was going to get past them
They arent on the same team... its pretty clear that was the plan 15 laps or so before it happened... no toyota in the championship 4.... that came from higher up.
Fun fact: The old NASCAR points system and a Euro Soccer league (Premier?) had the best way to determine a true champion. Total reliance on a fair regular season. The soccer league created in season tournaments to counter a run away champion.
All national European football leagues have a season long points format.
As does every other motorsport in the world.
NASCAR class action lawsuit for defrauding the public
Here is a simple fix for next year: a full season points format without stage cautions.
Simple and effective. But the problem is, now, the casual average fan does not have a clue as to what real racing is. They've only known the contrived and heavily manufactured races and finishes.
100 percent!! Eliminate stages and the damn chase. I'm with Mark Martin-this is a sh*t show.
@@samharris3508 Yeah like when they removed stage cautions from road courses and people got mad that the races were clearly better.
@craigstephenson7676 I understood why they were mad the race at Watkins Glen was a stinker. But that was the fault of the car and not so much because the race lacked mandatory cautions.
And sometimes, races just end up like that sometimes. NASCAR fans have been gaslit to believe what we have now is real racing, which it isn't. It's more akin to WWE than it is to a Motorsport.
@@samharris3508 yeah but the Indy RC and COTA that year were decent (COTA was great until the OT shenanigans) and as soon as they brought back stage cautions they made that Charlotte roval race worse.
As an F1 fan in addition to NASCAR, yesterday's race makes the F1 season finale from Abu Dhabi from 2021 (the most controversial F1 race of all time in my view, though "Crashgate", the 2005 US GP & the Austrian GP of 2002 is right up there) look like child's play. It is absolutely embarrassing for NASCAR to allow something like this to happen. Things like this are also the main reason why F1 & Indycar will never implement the playoffs to determine their champions, though Indycar lately has been trying to be like NASCAR in the way they do things (ex: implementing the charter system).
Who owns the Indy car series, and who has benefited the last two years under NASCAR's point system.
I was in the pits for the race. It was a great race by Martinsville standards, but the ending left such a bad taste in my mouth. 🤮
Nascar's been fixed all year. Dillon and Crashtain should miss races
I hope Sawyer is just being a PR puppet for the France family & he doesn't actually believe this nonsense that comes out of his mouth. "the fans enjoy the playoffs." WHO? 90% of the fans hate it. the amount of games being played from both Chevy & Toyota on the last lap is enough proof this is not a legit way to crown a champ. I hated the OG 10 race chase for the cup but even that is better than these BS gimmicks. the NASCAR playoff format is a joke. You had multiple cars creating a moving blockade for William Bryon and Bubba Wallace slowing up to give C Bell a spot. This isn't racing. Its a clown show.
In the words of good ol Slapshoes: "Here is Nascar's dam of legitimacy and it busted open a long time ago"
If I ran Nascar heres my answers. As far as this weekend 1,3, and 23 all get parked for next weekend. Not just drivers, the entire team. The 24 and 20 both get a DQ from the championship and its now a championship three.
Next year get rid of the playoffs. A season long championship the way it should be. The sport is done if we have manufacturers activily fixing the finish of a race.
They really have lost control. If yesterday isn’t the straw that breaks the camel’s back in regards to this format being abolished, then I don’t know what is.
Probably if Logano wins the title, who keep in mind, entered the playoffs 18th in regular season points
@@LarsDVDTimeYT then only made it to the round of 8 because Bowman got penalized
the chase starts at the daytona 500
but they have to fix that 'parachute spoiler' mess too
The race was Great but the controversy overshadows it
You are having it both ways Iceberg. NASCAR can’t be a monopoly whilst losing control to the TV. Networks and manufacturers.
The one part of this that I hate more than anything is the fact that Logano, Reddick and Blaney are below the cutline without wins and they are contending for a title instead of guys like Larson and Bell, who’ve been good all year. THAT is the true issue with this system.
There's also the fact that one of the worst active drivers gets a lucky win and is immediately put into the playoffs despite having been damn near last place in points, when countless other drivers deserved that spot way more.
@ And they will argue that the playoffs were exciting, despite the fact that the first two rounds were just busy work, getting rid of everyone who we knew was going to be eliminated. Meanwhile, there’s five people in contention for the title in the Winston Format and Larson, Bell and Elliott are contending in the non-playoff standings, who are deserving of it due to their consistency.
It's glaring this year with Larson and his 6 wins. It was as bright as the sun in 2020 with Harvick and his 9 wins. This whole thing is a joke.
In all fairness to Reddick he's actually been one of the best drivers through the vast majority of the season, same with Byron (kind of).
@@whoasked9500replace “best” with “luckiest”. All his wins were on strategy, wreckfests.
The networks and corporations pretty much said " FU This is not your sport anymore, its our sport now" to the entire fanbase
The officiating system is getting worse every year. They need to fire the manager of the officiating system.
Don't hate the players, hate the game.
i just don't see that in racing, watching a blockade form in front of keselowski or watching bubba "have a tire go down" just made the players involved look like total moron idiots, very blatantly. I don't think all the Cbell fans that he gained this year will be following him into next after that, same with Byron, that is total embarrassment. Dillon should just retire at this point the guy has made a complete ass out of himself this season, he is nascar's all time lolcow at this point this year,
If Byron wins the championship the outrage will be even worse.
Very good chance he will to. Not a fan of him either but I can just see it happening.
Joey Logano too
But according to NASCAR, it will be worse with Reddick, as he is driving for a team that is suing them
@@LarsDVDTimeYT At this point, that's who I'm rooting for exactly for that reason.
@@t.hurson2298same here
This is why I plan leaving the sport after next week when Truex Jr. Retires but I'll hold out to January to see if they change the format.
I’m not watching another race until they get rid of the playoff format
Greed has destroyed the sport
For the people that say the championship doesn't really matter, Ryan blaney Martinsville front stretch showed to me that it matters to him.
Personally, I've reached a breaking point with this sport. Unless something changes in the off season, I'm going to boycott NASCAR. There have just been so many issues this year that completely get in the way of what I would consider to be the bet year racing we have had in the modern era. All the BS that has gone on this year has ruined my enjoyment of the sport, and there's no point in me watching something I do not enjoy.
*This is the 2nd time Joe Gibbs has gotten screwed by a wall ride at Martinsville*
Can we give Bubba props for doing a decent job making it look like something was actually wrong? The way he was taking those corners, if I did not hear the audio i genuinely wouldve thought he had a problem
The problem is this playoff system it’s easy to manipulate 1 race than an entire season
Like when RCR or Hendrick would enter additional cars to make sure the 3 or the 24 wouldn't finish last? This has been going for longer than the playoffs.
@@frederickwstrawitchiii3329Yep it happened during the Chase Format too which is what people keep forgetting which is why we have the playoffs now.
As long as the playoff style point system exists, this kind of thing will stick around.
THE PLAYOFFS HAVE GOT TO GO!
NO IFS, ANDS OR BUTS ABOUT IT!
If they want to put a greater emphasis on winning that's fine, but give full-season points with a massive boost for 1st vs 2nd
Blaney was an absolute beast. As an Elliott fan it was a heart breaker.
The person with the most points at the end of the year is the champion.
It's crazy!
It's almost like the person with the most points at the end of the year should be the champion!
I wonder what it would be like if other motorsports tried such a novel system.
I think they should just have a Championship 3 at Phoenix with the 3 race winners. If you just give the fourth spot to Larson, Chevy still gets what they wanted anyway. If you want to send a message you need to penalize both Toyota and Chevy.
It all goes back to NASCAR. They created this format, and this is what it promotes. This is why we need a year long championship format. Also, the OEMs need to be put in their place. This is NASCAR'S sport, and the OEMs just participate. Something has to change.
The problem is when 1 team does something unscrupulous the other teams have to counter to compete
If i had a nickel for every time NASCAR lost control of Round 8, i’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice.
Yes i still remember when the 2015 round of 8 i think all three races have some controversy.
Also, i would bet that Joey Logano is gonna be the champion, because “the history doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes”
Good insight.
Honorable mention to the 2020 round of 8
Your title says it all, I agree they have lost all control. And people are gonna lose interest with that happening.
Agree with this 100%. I had no dog in that fight yesterday whatsoever... I was just watching a decent race until it became evident what was going on in those final laps. On top of everything else, Keselowski would normally have moved one of them in front of him, but I'm sure he didn't want to cause a yellow with Blaney in position to win. I'm done with NASCAR for now. It's become a waste of time. Until things change, I'll find something else to do.
Sell the sport. That’s the call NASCAR should make. Pool a few billion dollars together and buy them out once and for all. Then fire everyone in the front office. Downsize for a few years and rebuild the sport, its fanbase, and its legitimacy.
Problem is the Frances don't want to sell it...and who would buy it?! Would anyone see money in it with everyone involved disgruntled and a fan base that's NOT happy with what it's become!?
Easy, make the racing fair and equitable, not total and extreme favoritism for only shitrolling!!!!! ULTIMATE TRUTH!!!!! CORRUPT NASCAR BULLSH-T SHITSHOW FOR OVER 50+ YEARS!!!!!! FIRST 12 RACES THIS YEAR, FORD WAS ARRANGED TO FAIL, LIKE MANY, MANY, DECADES BEFORE THIS, CHEVY WAS ARRANGED TO SUCCEED ( SEE ALL MY RESPONSES, BEEN READING, WATCHING SINCE 1968 - ALL I'VE SEEN IS TOTAL GM/SHITCAR FAVORITISM, ENOUGH TO MAKE ANYONE SICK!!!!!) SEEN THE DEATHS OF 2 OF FORD'S BEST, AND MULTIPLE ATTEMPTS AT J.ROUSH'S DEMISE. ALL WHILE NASCRAP HANDS EVERY ADVANTAGE TO SHITROLLING!!! NOW NASCRAP/SHITROLLING HAVE ARRANGED 40 OF LAST 50 YEARS MFG. TITLES( 2/3 OF NASCRAP'S COMPLETE HISTORY) IN 2020, CHEVY HAD ONLY 3 WINS, THE RACE BEFORE THE PLAYOFFS, WHEN NASCRAP STEPS IN, HAS A "MEETING" WITH ALL CHEVY TEAMS ONLY, THEN SHITCARS WIN 6 OF LAST 11 AND DRIVER'S TITLE - ARRANGED!!!!! THE ULTIMATE TRUTH!!!!!!!
@@PaperBanjo64Michael Jordan might be willing to buy it. Who knows. 😅
@@runrafarunthebestintheworld he could afford it, and turn it around...he's a longtime fan himself, I could see somebody like him buying it and saving it, I'd rather see NASCAR reformed than to kill itself slowly and a split happen, a strong healthy NASCAR is essential, it's part of our American culture.
I think these teams forget that MWR ended up ceasing to exist not even two years later because of the reputation, and the fines that they got from it.
Update: The 1, 3 & 23 have been Penalized for Violating the NASCAR Member Code of Conduct at Martinsville.
The Crew Chief, and Spotter for Each Car, As well as a Team Executive from Each Organization have been Suspended for This Weekend's Championship Race at Phoenix.
Along with The Loss of 50 Driver & Owner Points as well as a $100,000 Fine for Each of The Drivers & Owners.
People get mad when nascar lets drivers and teams do what they want on track but then love when teams go against nascars “tyrannical” business. Pick a side
By citing Bell's move as a "safety" violation, JGR can't fight back and NASCAR can ignore the glaring manipulation of the finishing order by HMS and Chevy and pretend it never happened. 23XI tried to counter, guilty, but a response to what was happening. Bubba's CC saw it. This is a joke. Shouldn't happen either way. Agree DQ both
A Few Thoughts:
First, if this manipulation goes unchecked, how can anyone legitimately trust NASCAR sports betting?
Secondly, if the actions of select Chevy and Toyota teams create a negative perception of NASCAR among fans and media, how does this not devalue the charter of Ford teams that played by the rules?
Could this lead to further litigation down the road?
The only way the racing manipulation will go away is if they get rid of this current playoff format. That's literally when all of this started to get out of control.
No more playoffs. A season is a body of work, and a champion is made on the complete season.
Eric Brought up a good point, this behavior isnt brand new, it's been ongoing for so long, and these arent the only teams that have done some spotty stuff and NOT gotten penalized for it. Eric brought up the roval race, where someone (i forget the details watch his vid) refused to pass, with some damming radio evidence, but they were not penalized. This is just the meta and there hasn't been any strength against it. Nascar needs to let this one go, but edit this whole stupid format and rulset for next year
The Roval race was Cole Custer - 2 years ago. He & SHR were penalized 50 driver points, 50 owner points, & $100,000. The one that wasn't was penalized was Eric Jones being told not to pass Denny Hamlin, 4 years ago. I thought that should have been a penalty too. Ironically, that was at Martinsville!
ARRANGED BY NASCRAP TO PENALIZE FORD OR TOYOTA ONLY, LOOK AT THE HOOD LOUVERS ON THE CARS, RFK ADJUSTED THEM TO GET A LARGER OPENING, WAS FINED, PENALIZED THE MOST EVER IN HISTORY BY NASCRAP, BUT CHEVY HAS OPENED THE REAR OF THE SAME LOUVERS WITH A HOLE, CREATING A VACUUM FOR THE FRT. DOWNFORCE - WITHOUT, YES, W I T H O U T ANY PENALTY!!!! CORRUPT P.O.S. SHITROLLING/NASCAR ALWAYS FAVORS THE SHITROLLING/GM BRAND HEAVILY, FOR OVER HALF A CENTURY!!!!!!! NASCRAP'S EXECS. SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE AND FINED BIG $ AND JAILED!!!!!!!!
I want logano to win. I just want it all to be as stupid as possible. NASCAR will have to acknowledge the fans eventually
I'm never watching the playoffs again. Go back to a points championship or I'm out.
If Bubba wanted to give the spot to the 20 wouldn't it have been easier to just come to pit road?
He had no reason to come to pit road ??? He had no issues with his car post race during inspection...
Let this not distract you from the fact that Ryan Preece had top 5 pace in that race
Go Back To The Original Chase Format With The 2004-2006 10 Driver/2004-2013 10 Race Format With Chase Points And No Points Resets For The NASCAR Cup Series.
But Bring Back The Full-Season Points Format For Both The Xfinity Series And Truck Series And That's It.
I was there gone to both martinsville races this year and it’s the first time in years and god it was so damn obvious it was so obvious what was happening if nascar doesn’t do something it just proves even more they’ve lost touch with the sport and its fans
You are right both the 20&24 should be out & the 1&3&23 need to sit out the last race but they don’t care
Mark Martin = Based 9:30
The description of this video took the words right out of my mouth
I think NASCAR really bit themselves by turning a blind eye to Jones refusing to pass Hamlin because of championship standings a few years ago. This was a predictable consequence of that: more team orders.
This "sport" isn't a sport anymore. It hasn't been for a while. It's a game show. This entire round proves that. JL winning and undeservingly fighting for a championship being 15th in points, while Kyle Larson a top 3 driver on the planet, 6 wins, 1600 laps led, dominated the season with Tyler and Christopher, and only Tyler made it in. Not to mention teams have little to no respect for the officials. They do wtv they want. Again this race proves that. 2 manipulations of the finish and none of them were addressed. It's BS. It's horrible. There's a lot of other issues wrong with nascar but those 2 are the biggest ones rn. No discipline, no punishment, nothing. And this points system is putting these teams in the position to manipulate the finish, and to do wtv it takes to succeed.
Exactly the opposite, the France family has unchecked control and it has destroyed the credibility of the product. Loved it when it was every man for himself!
Agreed, Eric Estepp is saying the drivers have 0 respect for NASCAR, but when it's proven and on display NASCAR is incompetent and have allowed the sport to devolve into this, and NASCAR really doesn't care about the fans, drivers, or teams, only big TV contracts which only line the France's pockets, making fans happy? No way!
NASCAR is dying slowly. And years like this don't help, I'm not watching next year so there's one person for sure that's gone.
I probably will watch early season races, especially if 23XI don't get the injunction and have to qualify on speed, but once IndyCar and F1 start, I'm out...unless NASCAR end up pissimg me off even more before then...
This happens because of the format. The playoffs are a joke for many reasons, including this year’s clear race manipulation
October 10, 2022. Cole Custer & Stewart Haas Racing were penalized 50 driver points, 50 owner points & $100,000 for manipulating the outcome of a race. Obviously, that is not enough to discourage this. The #1, #3 & #23 team should get at least double that. They made a total joke of Nascar racing. Disgusting!
Blame NASCAR . You wanting to DQ Byron is wrong. Bowman was already screwed and no you want Byron out. Come on.
"We will build a great, great wall!" - Ross Chastain and Austin Dillon (probably)
As a Christopher bell fan I think that he should have made the final four. He is one of the most underrated and deserving driver in the cup series
Not even a Bell fan but easily one of the more talented drivers in the field. If they crowned their champion like they used to, like every other Motorsport, Bell would easily be a top driver every year
Talent wise, he's easily top 3, probably second behind Larson
Go back to the full season points. It was never broken. No other legitimate racing series has “playoffs”, they go full season.
NHRA: Am I not a legitimate racing series? Bigot.
What a fiasco, it’s easy to see why there’s a conspiracy around HMS favouritism.
Completely well deserved!!!! You obviously haven't watched how SPOON FED this team is!!!!!!! WHILE UNJUSTLY, FORD IS TREATED LIKE CRAP ON A CONSTANT BASIS FOR DECADES!!!! ULTIMATE TRUTH!!!!!
NASCAR needs the following:
1) The Latford Winston Cup format back with the 2007-2010 points format. (Instead of 175 points for a win before bonus points, 185 before bonus points.) With this, bring back bonus points with the following:
- 5 points for leading a lap
- 5 points for leading the most laps
- 5 points for the pole sitter on qualifying day
- 5 points for the fastest lap of the race
- 5 points for the fastest 4-tire pit stop of the race
Even keep stage racing around in its current form in terms of the points; just fet rid of the stage cautions.
2) Get rid of the Charter system and bring back the top-35 in owners points rule.
3) Bring back 43 car fields.
4) New sponsors to come in, or bring back old ones.
5) This is out of NASCAR's hands, but they also need a better economy.
The final 4 should be Larson, Bell, Reddick, and either Chase Elliott or William Byron. Logano and Blaney should both not be in contention.
Its ridiculous to say "remove both Bell and Byron". Bell was penalized, his points are where they are. Byron should be penalized based on the behavior we saw, but that's a hard sell since Byron didn't actually do anything himself. But that penalty would likely drop him and let Bell back in. No reason to leapfrog over him and put Larson in. Bell also wouldn't have needed to make that final move if Byron had lost a few positions without a wall blocking for him. Bell got screwed on the decision of it all.
Also, Bell didn't do anything that egregious. Without Chastain's wallride a few years ago, there'd be no rule against Bell's actions, and it would just be seen as aggressive racing to the line. Chastain rode the wall with reckless abandon, never attempting to actually drive the corner. I can accept that is a penalty. But Bell overdrove, trying to make a pass and ended up in the wall. None of that is a penalty. So the penalty is because he finished the lap as quickly as he could after hitting the wall? That's ridiculous, last time I checked, they are running a race here.
TL;DR: Bell did not make a 'kick him out' maneuver, just an aggressive racing maneuver. The behavior that got Byron in is an absolute joke to the idea of racing.
Did you seemingly miss the part where bubba wallace drove literally backward for multiple laps so that bell could catch him and pass him ??? Live on broadcast it was obvious what bubba was doing..... post race inspection proved ZERO issues with bubbas tires or car.
Toyota did not have a man in the championship 4 and they tried to make it happen.... how does your logic make any sense at all ???
@@seanheaney8303 Bell already lost that position with the penalty that was assessed to him. If Byron were removed or penalized in points for what occurred to protect him (suppose the same penalty applied to him that was applied to Bell and score him as the last car on his lap), the Championship should be open to whomever has more points after the penalties. Otherwise Bell wouldn't really be penalized with points, but just disqualified. But this is all hypothetical as Byron is not being penalized, it doesn't really matter.
And I'll also argue, if the Chevys aren't blocking for the past 10-20 laps, does the 23 even have a need to drop back and help out Bell? Would Bell have needed to try and ride the wall to get in? Bell is literally watching cars on the track fix the race to keep him out of the Championship. This went on for an extended period of time. So I have a hard time holding the behavior that occurred in response to that at the same level as the long blockade.
@@Matalito the issue is moot, Bell commited multiple violations. He commited a wall ride and the bubba backwards driving... that would be 2 penalties seperate. Then his team is LIVE on radio asking and a calling around to get those spots.. So actually 3 penalties on Bell. Byron only has ONE not Three... byrons team has ZERO comms with other teams asking for help, byron did not ask for anything via the radio. There is enough evidence the manipulation was done by Chevy and Chevy alone. Possibly chevys nascar executive calling and asked all the chevy crew chiefs hey get are guy in... how is that Byrons fault??? Even if you give him 1 penalty for what happened BEHIND him. Bell has 3 penalties wall ride, bubba racing backward (btw a MUCH riskyer and dangerous move) & his team had comms asking for other teams to do this.
Lets take it one further NASCAR ITSELF damaged the outcome of the race.... when on yellow Kyle Busches wheel fell off, nascar started the race again despite the wheel being on track, then called the caution before the drivers even made it 20 feet( they didnt even make it to a scoring loop).. the broadcasters were yelling for them not to start even 30 second prior to nascar restarting it anyway. This cost Byron the race lead, made blaneys magical comeback a reality etc. Had this caution not cost multiple playoff drivers major/ important track position its possible NONE of this even happens to start. So you could argue this started by nascar attempting to fix the race themselves by making a terribly odd call to restart the race...
Finally Bell did NOTHING to earn his way in, he honestly had a terrible race. He spun, his fault. His crew messed up on pit road. Amongst other issues... there is ZERO reason this situation happens if he races a good clean race scores an easy top 15 hes in... he fluked...
One other important thing, it is obvious chevy is who fixed the race and toyota also attempted... ALL OF THE OTHER 4 drivers left either were chevy or toyota. So your going to penalize Byron & his team for doing nothing wrong but then allow another chevy or toyota driver to benefit ??? When it was the manufacturers who attempted to fix the race how is that fair ???
This doesn’t have anything to do with the video, but the next gen nascars have been added to Forza Motorsport 8, you should check it out. Nice to see NASCARS in a game again.
They are not called Nascars
@ bro you know what I mean, no way your life is that shallow and boring where you felt the need to correct me on that.
NO way in hell did Bubba have a flat tire going down
They should DQ the 20 and the 24 and fine the 1,3, 20, 23, and 24 teams a million dollars each.
Shit like this was inevitable with this format.
You either:
Go back to a season long championship with stage points and larger bonuses for winning races; or a 10 race chase where only winners in the top 20 and the regular season points champion are locked in.
Chase system
Was even more
LEGITIMATE IN MY OPINION
Absolutely, because the original chase from 2004-2010 despite having a points reset, had somewhat normal battles without the interference of playoff points, stages or round point resets, or that 1 race championship crap that turns the final race into the finale from Cars