Bravo Two Zero The Real Story
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2013
- The Truth Behind Bravo Two Zero. A couple of years before the 2003 Iraq Invasion, Michael Asher (Ex-Para/23 SAS) went to Iraq to try and uncover the truth behind the infamous Bravo Two Zero mission of the Gulf War.
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Disgraceful that Vince Phillips never got a medal, the guy deserves it for the ultimate price he paid, RIP Vince Phillips, I salute you.
Can you provide a citation to the figures you quote? I'm going to call "bullshit" on this one.
@@johnharmer4606 that would be the normal reaction.
Head in the sand.
@@gordonferrar7782 Likewise
@@thelastaustralian7583 and you have the nerve to call yourself a patriot!
It's war, people die, have you been brave enough to enlist? If not don't judge those brave enough to put their life on the line!
@@thelastaustralian7583 The Kurds and the Sunni's were very grateful for the removal of Saddam Hussein. And had we left him in power, he would've acquired nuclear weapons from the then North Korean prime minister. Then go on to invade a neighbouring country for the 3rd time, this time armed with nuclear weapons.
I read Ryan's and McNabs account of Bravo Two Zero when the books first came out and believed everything I read truthful as I was 18 years old and serving in the military. I never served in the Gulf in 1990/91 but when Micheal Asher's book came out I felt very saddened about the way Vince was portrayed, so much so I used Micheal's book for a presentation on my JNCO Leadership course to tell the true story to a military audience and my presentation was backed up with emails direct from Micheal whom I had contacted during my research to make the presentation. Micheal previewed my work, offered me additional advice which i included as I have the utmost respect for this man as not only is he a former member of the Regiment he went to all lengths to research the accounts of the bravery of Bravo Two Zero only to find sadness and embelishment. RIP Vince, never forgotten.
Well said mate, Micheal Asher is quite a writer in his own capacity and if you want a Well researched book to read than a piece of fiction, read Ashers "KHARTOUM The Ultimate Imperial Adventure" about the Mahdist movement from its inception through to its conclusion at Omdurman....in my opinion one of the most exciting and totally true story from start to finish..
it's a personal choice what you believe, the people who were actually there...or someone making some dollars by just talking about it, the media can't get yesterdays stories correct so listening to someone 10 years later..yeah you go with that one
@@ukqwerty999 Lol, killed 250 Iraqis? Even their commanding officer said their account was horseshit.
@@rogerthecabinboy2012 it was american intelligence that quoted that figure lol
@@ukqwerty999 No it is in their books. Look up Mike Coburn, he took the M.O.D to court over his book soldier 5. During the proceeding his friend known as "Mal" who was one of the brave 2 zero team, gave testimony in court about Ryan and McNabs books. Saying they were utter nonsense. Chris Ryan claiming to attack 2 APC's on his own, breaking a mans neck Rambo style.
I teared up when Vince's family got the binoculars. Beautiful
the MOD should admit that they made mistakes give vince his medal and clear him of any blame .Its so easy to blame a dead man for other peoples mistakes
They made quite a few mistakes. The shear amount of coalition pilots caputred is testiment to that.
Disco Stu In ‘91?
Dereliction of duty and false bravado, and plausible deniability authored the books - they’re a pair of knackers.
And pseudonym or not - why change your rank? You have a shadow rank and a pseudonym, but a CPL leading a SGT in the Regt where you all start as Troopers and are promoted from within? Whatever rank McNab was in the Green Jackets he didn’t take with him to 22 - Not then, not now, not ever.
Go watch Bear Grylls, most people don’t even know he even served with 22 Regt, and the way Ryan pronounces ‘cache’ is unique to himself, ‘Kaysh’? Arms Kaysh? Food, Supplies, whatever - it’s pronounced ‘cash’.
I’ve no time or respect for either of them.
@@thephalcon9501 what the fuck are you talking about? What does that reply have to do with my comment. I dont understand the point you're making sorry.
eddie90 Firstly I said ‘with’ not ‘in’ - secondly, whether TA volunteer, or an ex-reg with the balance of 12 years service completed as a reserve, they still have to perform to the same level. Finding the motivation and self discipline to fulfil his role without living-in is probably why he does the survival stuff for TV - than and the money.
So the ‘bit of a difference’ means he’s capable of doing his job (and it was 21 he finished selection with - that’s when the training begins) and as far as I’m aware they were active in 2018 - whether Grylls was there or not is irrelevant - he’s never found the need to bullshit his way to fame compared to members of 22 who are always training - it’s their job.
ruclips.net/video/3kpiaP_yaIg/видео.html
Watch this. About the 1st, last and only, low level daytime sortie of the gulf war (by the brits)
Many of us have read Bravo Two Zero and The One That Got Away; both accounts by their respective authors where enthralling and fascinating to read. For years I took all that I read in the pages of those books to be factual and 100% true. Just recently someone suggested I read The Real account of the Bravo Two Zero mission as told by Michael Asher. I am quite taken back by the contradiction in claims as to what I believed happened and what Michael has found through his sources what actually happened. Many thanks to Michael for taking it on himself to walk in footsteps of the team and unearth the truth, in doing so he has vindicated the name Vince who took the blame for the mission being compromised but he has also given peace to his family members and cleared the memory of his name, very well done..👏👏.
Read soldier 5, the new Zealander aka Kiwi, it's much more accurate
Good, I was hoping someone would point out those are partially fictitious accounts, particularly the claims of how many enemies they killed.
Books written to entertain and garderoba money shame the authority lied so much
@@paulwilliams2663 just ordered it after seeing your comment. I look forward to reading it 👍
I've gone thru some stuff I'd rather not share. My brain has grey'd out some truths and hyper focused on some not so grey. They've scared me into what I now live with every day. What truths/not so truths do you all want to hear? You want an f'n story, make your own and live with it
This is a fantastic bit of film making. You see the generosity and warmth of the Iraqis and understand the hellish conditions the British lads faced. It's a reminder that "good and evil" are labels that should be applied with extreme care. This is lost on too many people in our times
there are very few real bad people. its political leaders usually that are the real bad guys on both sides. iraqis will rarely lie, they are men of faith. western "special elite" soldiers have a lot to loose for failed missions, thats why they exaggerate so much, their egos cant handle it otherwise.
@@LowKickMT I wouldn't mistake the fame-hungry writers associated with this operation with the majority of SF soldiers either. Those who know are struck by how humble and unassuming these men are.
@@granitesevan6243 fair enough yes
Asher is full of it, he served less than a year in the SAS and has a big chip on his shoulder. If Ryan and McNab cannot agree on anything other than he is full of shit that speaks volumes.
And they gave back the binoculars. I got an onion under my eyes at that point.
Based on McNabs fiction writing, I find it very believable he embellished a lot of what happened. Very sorry for Vince. I respect the SAS but to lie about action is very unbecoming
That's why the SAS stopped soldiers publishing books like this. It was causing too much angst internally. Otherwise there would be a couple hundred books out there.
Both "McNab" and "Armstrong" exaggerated things and made stuff up.
@@NikoChristianWallenberg yes we all exaggerate thing's but too suggest nothing was true in the books is pathetic .
Exactly so, Niko: you'd be surprised how some people still come up with their excuses. Downright shameful.
@@douglastaggart9360 mate the sas books are fake or pathetic their true stories idiot go read the Chris Ryan books wanker
I couldn’t give a toss about Asher, McNab or Ryan.
If they want to discredit each other to further their own careers then that’s their sad issue.
There’s always some Hollywood in these escapades in a bid to boost the storyline.
However, Vince Philips reputation should not have been brought into disrepute following his death.
Dead people have no voice..
This story is already lost to time. One thing I am sure of is how it feels to wait for news. My dad was on hms Broadsword when it was hit in the Falklands conflict. If a warrior's destiny is to die gloriously a family's destiny is to sit at home praying. At 12 years old I didn't care about global politics, I just wanted my dad home. Thoughts to all those who are waiting for news.
He made it mate?
@@deplorabled1695 yes mate thankyou. If you watch other vids you see a large hole patched up in her right stern. My dad was stood where that bomb came through, it went above his head and up through the quterdeck. Didn't explode because Argentine pilots flew so low the timer couldn't arm . Very lucky.
@@bradauto You're about the same age as me. I was at St George's school in HKG, we lived in Sek Kong and dad was working the Chinese border alongside the Gurkha regiment.
We watched the Falklands unfolding before our eyes every night on BFBS with news from BBC; I remember Sir Gallahad going up and that poor bastard EOD bloke getting deleted.
I also remember the footage of HMS Sheffield. It was haunting because Sheffield had been in HKG harbour at Tamar a few months before and dad took me down and the RN Jacks took us brats on an amazing tour of the ship. Fucking indelible memories. I knew Broadsword took a lucky swipe and will go back to watch the footage.
Glad your old man made it out and I hope he's still kicking and doing well. Hope he has a dram every now and then to bless his lucky stars.
@@deplorabled1695 happy days. I have great memories from family days and socials. Love the service life. Dad is still going strong thanks and all the best to you and your family.
If all the bombs that hit the task force had detonated, it would have probably been a totally different ending to the Falklands conflict.
Perhaps I can use my own experience to give context to this. I am a veteran of the war in 1991 but was attached to 7th Armoured Brigade, the "Desert Rats". I was in an Armoured Personnel Carrier the 432 and part of the advance up the Wadi Al Batin and into the Kuwait desert. My role was that of Arabic linguist in the world of Signals Intelligence. First a word about Michael Asher, former professional soldier and policeman and territorial SAS. I regard him as the modern day Wilfred Thessiger. Explorer and writer. MA is clearly willing to "Go Native" and adopt the culture and customs of the people who host him on his travels. In doing so he gains their trust and respect. I am qualified to observe that he speaks fluent Modern Standard Arabic with his pronunciation and grammar so clear that I can understand nearly every word. I struggle with the natives as they have strong regional dialects. So we can trust the bits in Arabic as his translation was faithful to the original Arabic. Although I strongly disapprove of "Ryan" and "McNab" turning the SAS into the "Special Author Service" I will briefly play devil's advocate and point out that the British commander of Op Granby General de la Billiere also broke protocol and put his story into print. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I was quite taken with MA's iraqi companion Abbas and the testimony of those Iraqis who had direct contact with the patrol. Their natural humanity shone through and they were emphatic in their telling of the story. There was no sign of hatred in their narrative which surely would have been the case had the SAS caused the carnage claimed. Once in the hands of the authorities they would have been subject to harsh and brutal treatment. This I can be sure of as some 22 years ago I did a charity trek in the Himalayas with the Tornado pilot who was shot down and spent weeks in captivity. He had a very hard time. Hopefully Sgt Phillips has come out of this in a much better light. One small detail did surprise me however. The Iraqi who checked his wallet found a picture of his wife and children. This broke protocol as I clearly recall that when we went into battle we were not allowed wedding rings or any photos of family. In the event of capture and interrogation such things can be used as emotional coercion into surrendering information. Finally the two authors have gone on to write successful fiction on the back of their accounts of the patrol. As illustrated by MA and his iraqi interviewees these accounts were highly dramatised to put it kindly. These people wanted their books to sell. In order to do this they had to pander to a civilian population who like to read about death and destruction and watch it in the form of war movies. An honest account of a brave Escape and Evasion operation would not have had such broad appeal. It would have found a niche market amongst fellow military types but it would not have launched their careers in the world of fiction. They are probably both wealthy men now but to me the money would be too high a price to pay for the loss of integrity. Living in Taunton I once went to a private celebration of Bob Consiglio's life. He was a former member of 40 cdo Royal Marines. May God bless Bob, Vincent and all those who have lost their lives in miltary service while doing their duty and trying to relieve the suffering of people who cannot stand up for themselves.
Thank you for yout service to the UK brother.
@thebritishbookworm2649 Cheers bro, I did my bit, but thankfully came through it without setlrious physical trauma. The mental health problems and survivor guilt are my constant companions , but I've learned to live with them 🙂
Blimey, well written. Thank you.
@@ajfree79 Thank you for your kind words.
Loads of teams were chasing the scuds. This is the ONLY one that inserted by Helo and on foot. Everything that is wrong with this mission is that they did not stay on the helo and bugger off, once they saw the terrain. McNab’s ego kept them on the ground.
Glaring discrepancies between what the locals' state happened and McNab and Ryan's accounts. I find it difficult to believe that anybody described as 'jittery' would have made it through selection nevermind being deployed behind enemy lines. A convenient scapegoat for poor planning, application and leadership?
I was in the similar mission back in 2001, dropped off on the mountain top, we spotted Taliban about 2k and moved closer to engage, I took out 2 fighters with my sniper rifle, but about 50 began to encircle, engaging us with RPGs and DshKs, My team leader and I hiked the mountain top to engage them with an ATGM but then my mom woke me up...
some good boys got left on that hill
Mums do that coz they just don't understand
Ben Warner yea they would never use technical trucks to mount a DSHK on it that’s just stupid 😂
Ben Warner 👍
I fought in the clone wars
Just like Andy McNabb , Marcus luttrell has also exaggerated his ordeal in Afghanistan.
That was the best 48 minutes ive spent lately on RUclips, brilliant video
I have close friends who were in the military at the time and who were in the know and they would not comment on the books when they came out and refused to speak of the events but they did describe the entire mission as a complete and utter fuck up from the very start.
Not our greatest hour.
Unbelievable in modern terms.
I vaguely knew Vince, my best buddy was Jeff his brother. Jeff and I served together, he was a billiant soldier. You'll see jeff saying Vince was "a bloody good soldier". I was greatly saddened when I heard from the RSM that Jeff had taken his own life. Jeff thought the world of his brother vince which evenually led to his demise. For me the liar Andy McNab was the root cause of this outcome. The local bedouin who witnessed the engagement said that the figures stated by McNab were totally fictitious. I could never make money off the dead. My heart is with the parents who have loss two soldier sons.
Don't trust anyone who is really called Steve..
And the point of your reply was?
@@pencils1951 It's all a huge fucking game and they're not "special" when not needed by their governments anymore. Seal team 6 for example. Don't trust anyone really called Steve!
NO SOLDIER IS A BAD SOLDIER
@@lucasgrey9794 learn how to Spell American then you can critique our country but until then fix your own shithole bc we know it aint any better than ours 🤷♂️
If any of you lads are interested in the British Royal Marines during the Falklands War, may I recommend Ian Gardiner's excellent book: "The Yompers: With 45 Commando in the Falklands War." An excellent read indeed!
Brigadier Gardiner addressed my staff college course in 2012. He and his book are both brilliant. I have read it and I found it to be one of the most intelligent and thought provoking factual accounts of the Falklands war.
Royal Marines. Boyoz for sure.
The truth always comes to the surface in time RIP Sgt Vince Phillips
They should have just put both there hands up to being put on a suck it and see ,op.
And RIP his younger brother Jeff - and his father, both of whom died fighting the unjust legacy given to Vince.
Does anyone consider that, even though Ryan and McNab may be lying, the Iraqi people being interviewed may be lying? It seems sketchy to me that these Iraqi people who's country was being invaded, were so nice to the soldiers. Just seemed unreal all the kindness they are stating they gave toward the soldiers.
yes I agree. According to this sketchy tale of events, a single injured soldier approached them trying to communicate and a mob decide to open fire on him. Not quite as empathic and humane as Asher would have us believe, me thinks.
this is an absolutely brilliant piece of documentary film. it was accidentally funny at many many points. Thanks to Mr Asher and the Iraqi locals.
it's clever but once again, not necessarily 100% accurate....All people will tell you what they want you to know...perhaps not as it really was...Iraqis are no different.
RIP Vince Phillips, you were more a hero than mcnab and ryan. he should be awarded a postumous medal
More a hero than Ryan, Ryan travelled across the desert and survived in below freezing temperatures, both are hero’s imagine downplaying Ryan from your armchair
Most units do not just exist in the field without higher authority having them plotted on a map. If the B20 Patrol had killed 250 soldiers it would have been very easy to plot their movements (and intended escape route) on a map and scoop them up as the blood trail would have been self evident. Note , the patrol was lying up during daylight hours to avoid capture (as per Standing Operating Procedures) and so must have been desperately unlucky to find and kill just short of a Battalion during the night hours.
Special forces are not designed or equipped for encounters with major units, they are designed for close observation/surveillance and direct action. The latter only being as a last resort and to get yourself out of trouble or to attack installations such as the the bombed radar station attacked by another patrol.
I think the books by the two authors are embellished accounts of an ill fated patrol that have been allowed to be published by the MOD because it further reinforces the mythology of the SAS. Remember, at the time there was still an internal war with the IRA going on, so hyping up our own forces serves to add to the detrimental psychological effect on the enemy one still has to face. An SAS Officer at the time stated that they were prepared to sacrifice a squadron to get a Scudd missile, which would have allowed the powers that be to write their own history. (Note: evidence of the SAS writing charged versions of their history is at The Iranian Embassy siege in which there is footage of terrorists throwing weapons out of the window and waving white flags. Yet the official version cites the terrorists resisting to the last).
What they did to Vince’s reputation and the resultant effect on his family was reprehensible. I’m sure money gained in this way will not bring the happiness they expect.
Was proud to repatriate Vince from Al Quaysuma airport in 1991. RIP to a true soldier.
They are equipped for contacts with large units, did you not see the firepower they were carrying?
Cheek Boy What is being shown in the films is a dramatisation of real events Hence the need for lots of rounds fired and lots of explosions, it adds to dramatic effect. A standard infantry fighting section of 8 men cannot engage the enemy indefinitely and are not scaled to do so as you cannot fight effectively for a prolonged period carrying such large amounts of ammunition, neither are SAS Patrols (unless it’s a fighting patrol e.g. Sterling’s raid and Rommel’s airfields in North Africa, The Pebble Island raid, the occupation of Mount Kent During the Falklands conflict or Op Barras in Sierra Leon).
Bravo 20 was not a fighting patrol and although they had sufficient ammunition and equipment to protect and maintain themselves, their mission was to locate and destroy if possible any Scud missiles they encountered and the fibre optic cables used to communicate with the teams transporting and operating Scud. The prevention if Israel joining the conflict was the primary concern of the coalition forces at that time and there were many more resources available for breaking up large Iraqi military formations, hence the reason why Gen. Schwartzkopf (who was not a big fan of Special Forces) agreed to Gen De la Billiere’s suggestion to use special forces on this type of mission.
I think there is a tendency to over estimate the ability of the SAS and see them as a can do everything unit. Whilst they are experts at what they do, it should be noted that they are drawn from all aspects of her majesty’s armed forces and so many will not have encountered small unit tactics normally associated with infantry units. These service personnel are trained to do specific jobs in a covert fashion and where possible avoiding contact with the enemy is paramount, hence irrespective of conditions observation occurs covertly during daylight and movement happens at night only.
Where the SAS have encountered larger numbers of enemy; Many Branch Point or the Battle of Mirbat the results were either defeats or last minute rescue by ground and air forces.
@@rockwellrhodes7703 Or.... the people that embellished tales and belittled others to sell books.
They are 100% war criminals but in my opinion all's fair in love and war. Rip to the murdered of north of our country which they used as a training ground. The little green men from Donbas tactic was employed in northern Ireland where loyalists and republicans were at peace
@@MrCardinal1965 like at the loughal kill zone . Sure. Or the revenge killing of an unarmed man who counter ambushed and shot dead SAS in an attempted murder of IRA men
Thanks for this Michael and as an ex-SF communicator myself and someone who has had since boyhood an interest in the formation of the Regiment from its very early days. Your detailed account of the the Bravo Two Zero mission answered all my suspicions after reading the various books covering this particular operation. I hope that the liars who subsequently wrote their inaccurate accounts are seen eventually in a true light and treated accordingly.
Read Bravo Three Zero by Des Powell. It gives a different perspective on the decision making of B2O prior to deployment. Bravo Three Zero was a highly successful mission and a great story itself!
No you wasn't 🤣 keyboard warrior
@@garethjones1632 As I understand it, Asher reports Bravo Three Zero was compromised too.......but they were the only SAS patrol inserted who had the sense to take vehicles with them, so they had the mobility and speed to escape - which as Asher knows from living with the Bedouin in the desert for 3 years, is crucial. Bravo One Zero similar to Two Zero, opted not to take vehicles. The difference with them was that shortly after deploying for their mission, the patrol leader on realising how shit and open the terrain was, radioed in and aborted so they were air lifted back out. Bravo Two Zero was the only patrol to go in, on foot, carrying too much gear and no wonder it all went tits up!!
The men captured Andy (an enemy soldier, during a war) and gave him tea while he was handcuffed and on his knees..REALLY! Of course they can’t be lying....
absolutely my point exactly. Just because the Iraqis say it was so....doesn't mean it really was so! can you trust their version of accounts 100%? I think not.
I watched a movie made about this event. I'm a Vet along with several members of my family and friends. We all agree that this mission was flawed from the beginning. There were several pieces of the mission that caused major problems. Bad Intelligence, poor planning ie no warm clothes, besides human error, etc...we don't believe the failure was because of one particular person's decisions or actions.
Bad planning?? Have you ever read their books??
I have met 'Mcnab' at RAF Leuchars when he made the transition from SF soldier to author/celebrity during a book tour at military bases. All personnel in the room were in awe (including the Station Commander) at his life/military and Iraq story and he got a standing ovation. The only people who know the truth are the surviving members of that doomed patrol. It's obvious to me that the book (and following films) would be emblemished in order sell the book. It's also obvious that the patrol was a total fuck up (the poor intel' on the weather, the incorrect frequencies for the Tac B and the decision to not take vehicles are some examples) and should never have been approved in the first place so there are many references of failure lying outside the responsibility of the patrol commanders. John Asher is to be respected for his many accomplishment (I think he was 23 or 21 SAS, not 22) but even he can not definitively prove the whole story was fabricated as severely as stated. I do feel, however, that the Iraqis were not as barbaric and brutal as stated in the book and many senior Iraqi officers were trained at British accademies like Sandhurst. The story made multi millionaires out of 2 of these former SF soliders and tuned them into celebrities and lead to a worship of all things SF that has grown today to such shows as 'SAS, are you tough enough' and 'who dares wins'. The UKSF do not need to glamorized as they know how well respected they are as the blue print for all SF SOPs in the world today. To all that have served with UKSF, that is all the recognition I am sure they need. I also feel immense pitty for the people of Iraq who have suffered for generations because of foreign lead coups and meddling because of desires to control their natural rescources and today, post 2003, their country had been torn apart. Garry Harriman, RAF 1987-2006, South Carolina, USA.
Well said, and thanks for your service 👍
There was just something "over the top" about both books. Former 1/75th Ranger.
I was at Leuchars as a liney on F3’s
The best posting I had. On a night we’d go into Dundee or Saint A’s
@@notmenotme614 Yesh, it was fucking brilliant. I used to go to Edingbugh and stop off at Inverkeithing on the way home. There is a great pub right by the Forth Rail Bridge all lit up at night. A few jars abd then a fish supper, and last train back to Leuchars. I went to Kinloss and finished my time at Lossie.
No you didn't
People forget about another book, not Ryan's or Mitchell's (Mcnab). There is a book about the fk up that was B20, by another member of the operation, his name is "Mark the Kiwi or Kiwi" in other accounts. The title is SOLDIER FIVE, written under a pseudonym called Mike Coburn. He was originally in the New Zealand SAS. His account is much more accurate, believable and he tells of what went wrong or what went right ,rather. I'd recommend it. It's a brilliant read, no hype and the best regarding this mission, IMHO.
Brilliant book. Now we know why they tried to ban it.
Just finished reading it. Good book.
Read the book shortly after it was published. As a former infantry and special forces soldier, what I recall about the story was that the patrol violated a number of fundamentals; couldn’t understand why the author wrote the book at all. It dishonors the memory of his mates.
McNab hides behind a pseudonym, Where he is happy to use the real names of his fallen comrades, he is utterly despicable, for as the word says, he deserves to be despised.
The Real story of bravo two zero is the classified one given on the debrief, the one no one knows about except those who were involved.
BenGunns absolutely great point, half the stories are of dead men and those stories we may never know.
And the RSM said that the patrol made no mention of key points during that debrief, and that other people in the Regiment regard McNab's book as "ridiculous".
Asher's book was pretty good too, a little more detailed at what his plan of action is for this doco.
Great read & same as RSM Peter book
so many different version of events on this mission I don't know who to believe
That's what the " head shed's" want!
I believe those who have nothing to gain..or lose. Truth is told here.
@McBain Music Bad INTEL! Their radios didn't work, did they not check them before departing, easy to blame the Royal Signals. They claim they were dropped 20 clicks from their LZ, did they not follow the maps, easy to blame the RAF. Did they not look at a weather forecast to understand how effin cold it was at night, easy to blame the Met Office. They're highly trained professional soldiers who usually get their kit selection spot on so why not on this op.
Their Job was to infiltrate under the cover of darkness, set up in that or another Wadi and monitor the MSR for SCUD Missiles being moved along it and report such via their radios that obviously didn't work. If they hadn't have been compromised (this film indicates they were not,) and decided to go off in their own directions they would have been found at the pre-arranged RV and fresh radios could have been brought out. Without radio contact their mission was effectively aborted, they had no role to play.
They had to have enough water and rations for their intended Mission length, but there would have been a resupply plan, an ex filtration plan and many other agreed plans, before they boarded that Chinook but without radio contact and then, them apparently changing those plans, nobody could take a wild guess where they were - it is a big effin desert out there.
They stay in a covert status unless told to change to an offensive overt status and that could have been an option if ordered to blow up eff up a SCUD or two. The aim of the Mission(s) were to keep Israel out of the conflict by neutralising those SCUDS.
The RAF did go back looking for them where they should have been, but they weren't there. Those RAF crews have big balls as the less time flying over enemy territory in such a distinctive looking and sounding crate is no fun at all.
I think it was only Vince that allegedly had thermals on and that probably brought on hypothermia during that fast tab out and the sweating and then freezing.
If you're trying to escape and evade, the last thing you do unless absolutely desperate, is go anywhere near roads or people. There is so much wrong with this operation it beggars belief, but please don't do the Tony Blair/George Bush WMD - Bad Intel shit. They were told, there aren't any, but the blame still reeks around the innocent who cannot defend themselves. Most disasters start out from a small mistake and it snowballs. I might have been overly twitchy too with the amount of eff ups occurring here, but I wasn't on the ground so can only make educated guesses as to what did likely happen. Over & Out.
its not our story to know or tell you will never know what happened bc the only people who can give the truth is the people who were there PERIOD
@@yosour6733 That's not true. It is possible to look at the facts, as Michael Asher does here. It is no surprise that the RSM of 22 SASR says at the end of the doco that most people in the Regiment regard McNab's tale as "ridiculous".
Fascinating video about what has turned out to be such a very contentious issue. Whilst the idea of this ex SF man ‘ retracing footsteps’ of the original team I suggest that the large age difference between this man and the much younger, battle ready and fit team doesn’t really serve to demonstrate anything.
Funny, there was always something about B2Z which seriously bugged me. I never bought into it back then and when it was revealed as far more mundane than hyped, I stood justified in my concerns. Yet, I was and still am disappointed. I don't think it's becoming of SAS blokes to exaggerate their ordeals. Mike Asher is clearly a top bloke and this is important revision work.
SMC01ful....Michael Asher is full of shit, as is this story.
RIP Vince Phillips You are a hero also.
I'm sure every thumbs downer did not watch this vid to the end when we get it straight from the RSM of 22 SAS at the time that the story is 'absolutely ridiculus'
'Eye of the Storm' by Peter Ratcliffe is one of the best career book's i've read, and to be RSM of 22 SAS, you know he has no need or time for bullshit.
Fuck that and I have served with the French Foreign Legion... And there is so much shit you can do with basic training yeah, " Putain de merde!"
@@Epsillion70 "Marche ou Cre've!"
I'm giving it a thumbs down stupid video this bloke only touches the surface
@Colin Baker 🤣🤣🤣
Fascinating. I was in precisely the same business at precisely the same time (I'm U.S., not British). According to the book, this team lived my exact nightmare. I read the book 25-years ago. My first reaction was as to the stupidity of using that wadi and cave as an objective rally point or patrol base; it violated the most basic tactical tenants of patrolling. That, in truth, they were inserted by helicopter landing some 300-meters away causes me to lose all sympathy. They were begging to be compromised. My other main reaction, 25-years ago, was that much of the tale was a bit incredible. As it happens, I didn't know the half of it. It wasn't a bit incredible. It was utter fabrication. He must have gone to the U.S. Navy SEAL school of operational recount.
Why on earth hasn't "Andy McNab" been identified? Why doesn't somebody track him down at the bar-brothel that he probably operates in Pattaya and stick a camera in his face? What a scumbag.
On the other hand, my deepest respect to Michael Asher for doing this project and being honest. It takes real character and real courage to tell an ugly truth about one of your own (and we all have them). You sir, are truly a gentleman and a scholar.
@eddie90 Well Eddie, I freely admit that, unlike you, apparently, I am not a professional connoisseur of this story. So, were you "there?" Are you a member or former member of "The Regiment?" Tell me, what's the "real" story?
There is nothing wrong with making money from telling the truth. Generally, when former military people can do that, I say more power to them. Making money by bearing false witness--not quite the same thing.
So, Asher lied about being former SAS and the regimental sergeant major cooperated in the lie? Interesting.
Also interesting that he walked out the entire operation, 10-years later, with living participants and that they all lied, delivering Academy Award performances while caring nothing about the hundreds of their fellow Iraqis that were killed in the various engagements. My goodness.
And by the way, no decent person publicly derides a dead teammate on an operation like this in the manner that "McNab" did with Phillips, even if there is a basis for it in truth.
If a jury were to be subject to the "McNab" book and this documentary, they would convict "McNab" of lying after about half an hour's deliberation. Again, if you have FACTS not elicited in either accounting, I'm all ears.
And thanks a million for the over the top and utterly gratuitous personal invective, Eddie. You're a class act.
@eddie90 My, you're quite an angry man, aren't you? Actually, more like a 13-year-old hooligan on some schoolyard, which is the way many people tend to behave when they are losing an argument. I'm going to ignore your potty-mouthed, juvenile name calling and condescension and attempt some further clarity for the sake of others that may be reading:
1) The fact that someone was "there" does not prove that they aren't mistaken or lying. As a U.S. special operator, circa 80s and 90s, I have experienced this phenomenon first hand. By the way and once again, were you "there?" Are you one of the five survivors or have you spoken directly with one of them about all this? Or are you arguing strictly on the basis of book(s) and documentary(s), as I have made clear that I am? If you are or have, that won't prove your case, but it would certainly be interesting in terms of your anger and stridency about all this.
2) I don't "like and agree with" anything here. I have no dog in this fight. I was a contemporaneously allied operator that was very affected by the book, at the time. That said, the Asher documentary speaks for itself and is unassailable, so far as it goes. Do you contend that the sites identified by Asher were not correct? Do you contend that the dozen or so Iraqis and Bedouins interviewed on the sites, less than ten years hence, were imposters or lying?
3) I stand entirely corrected regarding my (or perhaps Asher's) failure to adequately distinguish between the two authors. Stephen B. Mitchell, aka "Andy McNab," did not run down Phillips in his book. That was apparently Ryan. Fair enough. Again, it's been a while. However, that was not my primary criticism of Mitchell's book, Bravo Two Zero, nor did it seem to be that of Asher.
4) Again, unlike you, I'm not a full time historian of this operation. As I've made clear, all I know about it is what I read in Bravo Two Zero, more than 25-years ago, and what I just saw in the Asher documentary, which I stumbled across on RUclips. I hear you doing a lot of name calling of Asher, and a lot of pounding on the table, but I don't hear you putting the lie to his primary thesis--which is that Mitchell's book was overwhelmingly fabrication.
5) That Asher was 23 SAS and not a 22 SAS operator, with the same credentials as the B20 members, does not disprove anything he said. You engage ad hominem fallacy here. That said, by the way, based upon some quick internet research, I'd say that, as an author and in terms of professional credibility as such, it is Mitchell that is not fit to lace the boots of Asher.
6) What you cavalierly dismiss as "just the nature of selling books" is properly referred to as being a damnable liar. There were not some 250 Iraqi dead from this operation. There were zero. Which is to say that Mitchell's account is of the "stolen valor" variety. They were not in anything like the peril he described. Moreover, if things were done properly, not only would they not have been compromised to begin with, once compromised, all eight could likely have been extracted without any friendly killed or wounded. This operation was pretty much bollocksed by its participants. They were heroes for being there in the first place. But the three that died did so on the basis of their own screwups or those of their mates and/or command, not from some withering enemy action.
Further, if you can name a single major book written by a participant in a high profile Western military operation, from Gulf One to present, that includes this sort of fabrication, please do so. Because I'm not aware of any.
Again, if you can apprise me of FACTS that belie Ashers essential thesis, I will happily stand corrected on the lot. Otherwise I shall eagerly await your next salvo of petty invective and name calling.
Cheers
@eddie90
1) Neither "there" nor "wasn't there" prove anything, necessarily. EVIDENCE does. Asher amasses clear and convincing EVIDENCE. Mitchell is a confirmed liar. So, on the one hand, we have interviews with a dozen witnesses and participants that don't all know each other, at the various scenes, who are in possession of physical evidence (jerrycan, shovel, binoculars). On the other hand, we have the word of Mitchell, who doubtlessly told major lies about the operation, getting himself rich and famous in the process.
1b) Get a good dictionary (preferably a pre-1980 edition of the OED) and look up irony and hypocrisy. Then please explain to me how I am evincing either.
1c) I post as "Joe Anonymous" here. So, I'm not about to ask you to identify yourself. But I will ask you this: Who the fuck are you to talk to me like that, punk? I was a fully qualified operator in one of the four U.S. services' premier units that you've heard of, and went into harms way as such over the course of many years. Who the fuck are you? If I had to guess, I'd say you're about 23-years-old, washed out of the British Army on some kind of bad conduct discharge, and are writing from your childhood bedroom in a Brixton housing estate whilst your mum does you washing. You've dodged me on this twice. How about answering up in a manner consistent with your anonymity but responsive to my question, you arrogant fucking weasel?
2a) First, Mitchell is now "wealthy," as well. As I understand it, Archer got wealthy on merit, doing work that passes peer reviewed muster. Mitchell got wealthy as a self-aggrandizing bullshitter.
2b) Yes, Islam is a primitive false dogma of subjugation, of, by and for savages. Yes, Iraq is full of subhuman scumbags. And, yes, the dozen or so men interviewed by Archer are extremely credible. All these things can be true at the same time. If you have evidence that they were all paid off by Archer, let's hear it. And someone should get them an agent so they can go to Hollywood, as Mitchell has. Because they are hugely better actors.
3) No. It was my secondary concern, for reasons I will outline below.
4) The reader of this exchange will have to be the judge of who is being more sensible here.
5a) Again, ad hominem fallacy. My interest here is in the veracity of the book, Bravo Two Zero, which has been the basis for an entire cult of worship in the U.K.--a cult of which you are apparently a charter member--and fame and fortune for Mitchell. My interest is not in the biography of Michael Archer. You continually make this about Michael Archer versus Stephen Mitchell, as if it were some sort of military penis measuring contest. Mitchell's military C.V. is far superior to that of Archer. So stipulated. Nonetheless, by clear and convincing evidence, in this instance, Mitchell is lying and Archer is telling the truth. Life is messy and full of contradictions.
5b) "Why? Why were they doing that?" They were doing that because THEY fucked up, not Michael Archer, and not Iraqi war criminals (of which there were many). They were doing that because they failed to plan. Because they threw tactics out the window. And because they had no E&E plan and/or they stupidly deviated from it and/or their comm plan was garbage. Then they had a break in contact in the middle of the bloody desert. Then they foolishly tried to shoot it out, Rambo style, while vastly outnumbered and in parking lot-type terrain. Then Mitchell writes a book lying about the whole thing and making he and his mates out to be something right out of some idiotic 80s Hollywood movie. And he's rich and famous for it, today. I honestly don't know how you're not bloody embarrassed by all this. The only explanations I can posit are that you fit my description in 1b) above, or you are among those profiting from it all.
5c) Yes, after they were well and truly bollocksed, as they were, they should have surrendered. Had they done so, the three dead would be alive today, and there would have been no damage to other lives nor to U.K. or coalition operations. Fortunately, I never had to execute on this contingency, but myself and my guys gamed out this precise scenario at some length. What would we do if an Iraqi BMP drove right up on us in our hide site in the middle of the Kuwaiti desert during the day? Answer: Destroy the crypto gear and surrender. We would have been brutalized as POWs. But we would have lived. So long as there was no further risk to other lives or to mission accomplishment, this was the only reasonable course of action.
6a) "It's just a different point that I can't be fucked to go into?" You can't be serious. "Blame being poorly advised when writing it. Or just blame the author?" That is just exactly what I've done, Eddie. And It's just exactly what has you going mental on me. Now you're just not making sense.
6b) You're not naming any other books. I'm still waiting. Did Rob O'Neill do this in The Operator? Did "Mark Owen" do this in No Easy Day? No. They did not. I am not aware of any other comparable example of this where the author has not been called out (see below).
6c) Mitchell's whole pseudo-annonymity thing--just as most everything else with him, so far as I can tell--is just utter crap. It's nothing more than an attempt to add to the mystique. If Rob O'Neill can go public, Stephen Billy Mitchell bloody well can, too. Moreover, he's actually long been outed, but he still won't show his face on camera? Give me a break. The guy's a duchebag. By the way, I just came across some silly interview of him on RUclips, done by some toady little clown that buys into all his B.S. The guy is a fast talking dissembler, all day long; completely full of crap and completely full of himself. Anyone with any experience knows the type and can spot them a mile away. Yes, you can have an impressive C.V. and still be a duchebag, Eddie. Live and learn. "Good psychopath." He makes me want to puke.
6d) "Stolen valor" is the correct term. And it is because I am an American, in part, that I use it. In Britain, in large part, if one occupies a certain status, then one simply may not be criticized. A sort of primitive clan loyalty obtains with regard to "one of one's own." This is why I was so complimentary of Archer (22 versus 23 SAS dichotomy notwithstanding).
In the U.S., we hold out truth as the highest value--at least the minority of us that still deserve to be called Americans do. This is why, for example, Richard Marcinko (the best example of an American "Andy McNab," to my knowledge) has been largely shunned in the SEAL community. This is why the late Chris Kyle and that idiot Jessie Ventura have become the subjects of some controversy. That Marcinko is a full of shit asshole is more important than that he was a SEAL, and was the first commander of the SEAL "Tier-1" unit. He was called out by name, by a "Tier-1" SEAL, in one of the two books I mentioned above. I seem to recall that it was No Easy Day. As I understand it, Mitchell is similarly regarded by his SAS and SBS colleagues. And if he's not, he should be. Please advise.
I have never "bloated" regarding my military C.V. and neither has anyone I've ever known, for whom I've had any respect. It's a deadly serious subject and the closest thing to absolute factual accuracy that can be obtained is called for.
Cheers Indeed, Again
@eddie90
1) I'd never heard of Michael Asher before stumbling across this documentary. And it is clear and convincing evidence, again, so far as it goes. If it were not, Mitchell's reputation would be in tact. I'll stipulate to all your factual assertions here. They change little or nothing. You can't let go of not liking Asher. I'm not concerned with that and I don't particularly have an opinion on it. There is not much more to say here.
1b) Notwithstanding that you don't like it, there is nothing ironic or hypocritical in anything I've said. And you lecturing me on common sense is truly rich.
1c) Yes. I see. Lovely to hear that the millennial phenomenon obtains in full force in contemporary England. I'm more than old enough to be your father and you talk to me like I'm shit on your shoe. Actually, It would be more accurate to say that I'm old enough to be the father that you never had, hence your utter lack of respect, which of course, at bottom, is a function of your utter lack of self-respect. I'm trying to imagine myself speaking to someone of the early Vietnam generation the way you do to me. It's absolutely unthinkable. You won't understand this, but I actually feel sorry for you.
Congratulations on the house in Essex. Perhaps you'll eventually acquire some manners to go with it. If you do, you could someday find yourself meaningfully married, instead of on weekend pissers to Poland.
2a) Mitchell is wealthy, but he has no honor. I wouldn't trade places with him for eternal life.
2b) They have no reason to lie. Their stories make perfect sense.
5a) Asher is "cashing in" by exposing a lie. Mitchell is "cashing in" by lying.
5b & 5c) Yes, no plan survives contact with the enemy. Thanks for the epiphany. Particularly in spec ops, there are plans and then there are plans. If you are to E&E west after missing x-number of comm windows, then just decide to go north, guess what? Also, I remember that, according to the book, the whole op was just thrown together haphazardly and in an absurd hurry. None of the planning that goes into something like this took place. My unit, at the time, would have refused the mission. This is where commanders need to tell higher to go fuck themselves: "We do this properly, with proper support and preparation, or we don't do it. I'm not sending my men on some fool's errand suicide." This didn't happen here and three men paid the ultimate price--for nothing.
As to surrender, the real point is that they never should have been in this position to begin with. But once they were, yes, if they had surrendered, the three men would still be alive. If you think they should have died as they did, and for absolutely nothing, then I'm glad I never served with you.
6a & 6b) Once again, I'm not aware of any major recent book written by an ex-military type with this sort of fabrication. And apparently, you're not either.
6c) I don't quite savvy your point about checking my atlas. However, if any former Provos with the means to act on it wanted to do anything about Mitchell, he would have been dead a long time ago. The shooting war in Ulster is over. He's a drama queen trying to bolster his "secret squirrel" mystique. It reminds me of him in that nauseating interview I referenced above, talking about pulling civilian clothes operations in housing estates in Derry. If Stephen Mitchell had walked into either of the housing estates in the Bogside in the 1980s, wearing civilian clothes and with a concealed sidearm or less, he would have been dead in 15-minutes. Anyone that was there at the time knows that. Mitchell has got "Full of Shit Duchebag" tattooed on his forehead.
My only "agenda" is the truth or falsehood of Bravo Two Zero, by Andy McNab. I've been familiar with the various London accents since before you were born, and I'm able to control for that. I wouldn't trust Mitchell to tell me the time of day.
And as regards American birds and your sex life, American millennial females, generally speaking, are among the dumbest organisms walking the earth today. Not only are they suckers for foreign accents, most members of your generation will drop trousers for a monitor lizard with the right piercings and tattoos, so don't let it go to your head.
6d) We disagree as to your major distinction between being a full blown Walter Mitty and "bloating."
Clearly, proving you wrong would be as impossible as having the last word. I wouldn't dream of achieving either. Cheers again. I've got a bit of a headache myself.
@@joeanonymous1834 You are exactly right. At 5b and c: indeed there are plans and there are plans but this mission was already screwed from the begin. Even improvice adapt and overcome won't help in this one. But this team wasn't a team at all if you ask me. Who ever might blame Philips, if you are a team then you operate as a team.Means that if anything goes wrong the team made the mistake. For sure you don't go fancying about later that one of your buddies was the one to blame. And Eddie90, Mate is this just because Joe is American or do you write on all negative comments about McNab? And no i am not American but Dutch but just asking because I didn't see much from you in other comments
I was in the military and worked with SFSG . I was told that they have Andy MC nab targets in the urinals and it is forbidden to mention his name.. but what do I know..😁
I read the 1st book bravo two zero didnt feel comfortable about it. Then read Michael Ashers book so pleased for Vince Philips family.
From start to finish it was the SAS's WORST fuckup in the history of the 22nd.
The softshite macnabb deciding to risk his men by yomping into enemy territory forgetting Sterlings basic tactics of surprise night time attacks using a simple machine called a JEEP.
Brave honourable men died because of his ignorance and thats a fact.
That's actually the first thing I was thinking when watching the Sean Bean film when they claimed they were gonna carry 200lbs. I figured a recon element that's fitted for an assault would want to stay mobile if they were bringing their gear. Also in the books did they claim the Republic Guard just sat in the LAVs while they threw phosphorus in there? Because that's what it looks like.
Ryan claimed during a talk the reason why they went on foot was because the only vehicles left were Landrover 90's all the 110's were taken by other patrols. You couldn't (according to him) mount a GPMG on a 90. So they didn't bother. Make of that what you will.
Pretty shameful of Asher to make this. "It must be true because this iraqi man told me because i paid him to say it."
A historian tried to make a documentary at the same time in iraq nobody would talk to him scared of the police but some how this guy believes what locals are telling him.
At last a bit of mature thinking , although i do believe both Macnab and Ryans books are exaggerated the way this author gets un presidented access to a country that we we still technically at war with and all the ` original ` kit and equipment just appeared ?? please bare in mind Michael Asher did a complete hatchet job on his book about another great british hero T,E Lawrence ` Lawrence of Arabia ` oh and Asher was kicked out of the S.A.S ....... just join the dots
The first casualty of war is the truth
The first casualty is queen ants
A most important and honourable undertaking by Mr Asher, well done sir and thank you for your efforts in bringing to light the real story behind this fateful patrol.
The eye of the storm by Peter Ratcliffe is a very interesting read, it mentions mcnab and his patrol and how they refused to take land rovers on the mission among other things
So basically this was just a completely fumbled mission due to utter incompetence? One would think this kind of stuff wouldn't happen to an elite tier 1 special force.
Green Berets were there hunting scuds and they also got exposed by a goat herder. None of them wrote a bestselling tell all that I recall nor did they embellish anything.
Only just come across this-one of my favourite books of all time!!-carnt believe most of this story was exaggerated!!😯-not what i was expecting to hear!😯
Same here although I always found 240+ killings a bit of a lot. Then again, hero stories are never the way it is been told.The biggest downside on this one is about the Phillips part.Every operation has its mistakes and as a team you dont blame one.You are a team and so you operate as one.Mistakes are to blame on all, you suck it up as team and improvise. True fact though is the circumstances they were in and what seem to had been a quick operation turned out in a disaster and a long dangerous trip home
@@carlitoscf8348 Vince Phillips should of got a medal
@@carlitoscf8348 Can you imagine 240 people shooting back at an 8-man patrol at any reasonable range, even if they are lousy shots, you would be Swiss cheese!
@@VenturiLife Only in Rambo part one till 15 😂
@@VenturiLife Well 9 SAS managed to defeat 300 guerillas at the battle of mirbat so it seems plausible.
Other members of 22 SAS who were involved in other ops in the same theatre at the same time, have discredited both 'Authors' as grosly exaggerating their exploits. Read Radclif's book...
Title of radclifs book?
It’s Ratcliffe
Mark Andrew helpful cheers.
Being in the same area at the same time means what? What 'area'? In the same 50 - 100 - 200 miles? People in the same battle and in the same battalion have different 'local' perspectives on battles they were in, so I wonder How the other members can discredit when they were not there. Also, I do believe that McNab called out Asher for an interview together shortly after Asher started his debunking. Asher conveniently buggered off abroad.
Paul Bantick Herefords a small community. Soldiers there would of mentioned to other ones in other troops and squadrons.
I’ve been shocked by this. I’m ex-infantry used to the weights mentioned because I served in COP on Banner where infiltration was often less than a kilometre such were the weights (inc. jerrycans for 4 people X 3-4 nights). But now my own memory about things has grown foggy. I’m sorry that those B20 lads who died in the desert got dragged into this story. It was the first generation of kiss-and-tell accounts. And I wondered how the Regiment felt about that. The critical lack of warm clothing struck me as an appalling lack of basic soldiering judgment. I wonder if it was a CQMS error. This doesn’t tarnish my view of the 22 SAS Regiment. Just those two authors.
why did they carry on and why did they decide not to use land drovers also bad coms check out bravo three zero
and bravo one zero
According to Wikipedia:
"Asher claimed that his main achievement, though, was in exonerating Sergeant Vince Phillips, who died on the mission, and who had been blamed for its failure. Phillips' family received an official letter of exoneration from the Ministry of Defence as a result of Asher's work. Asher's book was received indignantly by 'McNab', who described it as 'infuriating', while 'Ryan' made ill-disguised threats of violence against Asher in an interview in . Threats to sue Asher for libel never materialised."
Some things we know for sure:
We can imagine that being caught lying is indeed 'infuriating';
Threats of violence against someone who has exposed your lies is suspect behaviour;
Threats to sue Asher for libel are very different from actually having sufficient evidence to do so;
Asher did an honourable thing for Phillips;
Vince Phillips' family.
If you read the other books that Andy MacNab wrote you will see that Andy is a very talented war action story writer.
But all books are full of fantastic events mixed with facts and added fictional ideas.
Apparently it sells great. It struck me reading the other books that Bravo two zero had to be modified in a great extent.
I’m happy to see that was the case..
Well done
if plans of the m.o.d. was to fill every one with so much b.s. so no one knows the truth then i say job well done
Of course he'd take some literary license with the story. Just look at any 'true story' movie and about all that's accurate is the credits
Ghost written as it happens.
It's quite probable that McNab embellished his story... but are we to accept that the Iraqi's account is 100% accurate too? Or could there possibly be some fabrication of events, relaying of accounts to make them sound kinder and more empathic that they were in reality? Not sure I'd trust this account as 10% accurate either to be honest.
Old Achmed at 27:00 was a busy boy, at the roadblock, at the capture in the field, carried him, gave him a blanket, is at the Hospital, trying to give blood.... he got everywhere lol ....i rekon Achmed might have actually written the Book instead of McNab.... should have asked him
Watching this in 2023 I think it's very sad that these men had to lie. they already had my respect for being in our armed forces and not only that they were in the SAS. They let themselves down the SAS down more importantly they let their FALLEN COMRADE'S down all to make a couple of quid R.I.P to the brave men that never came home you will never be forgotten.
It wasn't the first military operation that went wrong and it won't be the last. I find the Iraqi's versions of events far more believable.
How can you find ashers claims more believable?
Well ...it seems Randy Mcknob has some explaining to do
how lucky this ex sas turn coat finds everyone who was there, and how nice they were to these invading sas guys, sorry asher is a disgrace to side with them, i doubt anyone in your old squad have anything good to say about you mr asher
I was in the Australian military when this story was fresh 91'. At the Unit we would talk about this mission, it was most likely 92'or 93' by then. Being in Western Australia, I was at Irwin Barracks at the time, a stones throw from the SASR Campbell barracks, the headquarters of the Australian SAS, so we held these guy's in very high regard. I later went on to read both, "Bravo two zero" and "The one that got away". No military mission goes exactly to plan. We used to have a saying at the unit that goes, Poor Preparation and Planning, Provides a Piss Poor Performance. This was one of those performances. RIP to those who gave their lives...Lest we forget
We had an almost identical version in the UK, “Prior planning and preparation prevents a p*ss poor performance.”
@@NatFacker Yeah...a couple of versions out there. Cheers from Down Under !
@@themessenger5868 Piss poor planning promotes piss poor performance...
👍 I
I only knew Vince when he served in the Royal Army Ordnance Corps (Commando Ordnance Squadron Royal Marines). He was a straightforward, no-nonsense guy who did not tolerate fools. Michael's documentary tells the story as it was, good and bad.
Mike Coburn's book Soldier Five seems to clear up most of the questions raised and vindicates those who were accused of any wrong doing.
god bless vince , unsung hero
100kg of kit? Mate I'm sorry, but even an Olympian level athlete of the highest order would struggle to march any significant distance with that.
It’s not impossible but it’s dancing the line of probable, but that’s just what the SAS do
Can you carry 100kg of kit? Yes, but it's absolutely brutal. What a terrible plan.
How would the shepard boy know what night you are talking about if he didn't see them and the book was written post war?
Exactly my thought. How the hell can he remember the moment he didn't see them so clearly?!
As an uncle I now understand that the sas soldiers stories are just an other tale about super-human strength like the ones I tell to gullible children.
i was in oman in 93 where we had 2 SAS guys training us and we had a q&a when asked if it was true all they said was "we get together at the end of the mission and come to the same story" say no more.
The 200 Iraqis they saw may have been that Bedouin boys goats. Easily done.
Especially for a Geordie Liar called Colin...!
*At Library*
Librarian: “Hi, what do you need?”
Person:”I'm looking for Bravo Two Zero by Andy Mcnab?”
Librarian: “Ah yes, its a popular book titled under Fiction.”
And then at 8.33. He can easily lift his arms and talk without breathing while carrying a SAS Bergen.
@Phil Higgins, i don't get your point, he'd dumped the water and may have lightened his pack, the first part was just to show how hard 20k would have been with that kind of weight, i think 🤔
Giant ants were helping him. 🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🏃🏃
I was near a third of the way through the book Bravo Two Zero and decided to see if there was any videos about it...I watched this and got rid of the audiobook and kindle book. Won’t be listening to any more about Bravo Two Zero
you believe these people over a British soldier?
So your believing everything that these Arabs are saying the truth is somewhere in the middle.
I read this book many years ago and was in awe of the story. I never doubted the content, because I thought that the memebers of the SAS could be trusted. Boy, was I wrong.
This video just reinforces to me that in every great organization there are still people who act dishonorably and selfishly, looking out for themselves. It is quite a shame that Ryan and McNab would drag down a fallen comrade. Even if it was true what Ryan and McNab said about Vince, no real soldier would ever blame a fallen comrade, but rather give praise for the sake of Vinces family.
I am really glad that Ryan and McNab were exposed, and I do believe an investigation should begin to potentially rewrite the history books.
I agree...i did the same many years ago. The saddest fact is that he was actually named in their books whilst they went under a pseudonym. Potentially that could've had serious ramifications for his next of kin. "You couldn't make it up" but there lies the irony, it appears they did.
What do you mean by "dragged down"
First, I want to say thank you to Para/23 SAS M. Asher (as retired military, don't believe in "ex" when it comes to hard earned tabs of spec-ops mos quals) for doing what you did. Vince was vindicated right from the git go when Asher got to the first LP and methodically debunk or affirm the McNab book ( I've always had problems with that book). I can only surmise that Para/23 SAS Asher submitted a well documented (more detailed than what is shown in the video) after action report to DAD/SAS Reg. Bgd and a CC to the family of 22 SAS Vince Phillips. I don't know what the time frame is for recall to duty in the BRA, but McNab needs to be held to account. I take it McNab is one of the 2 who didn't sign a NDA, yet the other 3 survivors had to, this never did sit well with me either. Respects to all of our allied brother/sister Veterans and those who are actively serving. US Navy/Army Retired. May God continue to shine his grace to all of you, Amen!
Nathan B Kilgore Sr Kilgore Sr 23 SAS 😂
Some young lad saying he didn't see them in the wadi but did see their tracks and the aircraft tracks? What tracks would a helicopter leave exactly? Plus the helicopter dropped them off miles away from the wadi, was he everywhere? Don't buy it.
@@jamiestewart48 and the officer that was at the checkpoint, picking up, taking the SAS soldier to the hospital and he was going to give his blood to help the SAS soldier to survive! Bullshit!
no matter what version you believe its pretty obvious Mcnab either obscenely embellished his exploits or just lied to save face, even the CSM who debriefed McNab had grave doubts over his version of events, Mcnab in putting the blame for the failure of the patrol on his deceased comrade Vince was despicable. Asher who was SAS himself believed these guys and he initially wanted to believe McNabs account.
@eddie90 agreed, I've read McNab's book several times and have never found this blame of Vince that so many people here seem to have picked up on. McNab is in fact quite critical of himself, particularly when the group gets split. Ryan is very critical of Vince though, and that was part of the reason for Mike Coburn's book, to try and set the record straight.
@@cruachan1191 agree. McNab several times openly took responsibility publicly for what happened. I think, given the dire situation they were in, his decisions to push to Syria were perfectly plausible.
"Did you beat the invading soldier when you captured him?" - "Oh yeah, we beat the living shit out of the infidel" . . . . Cos that's what they'd say, right.
no, they gave them sweet team and a lift to the hospital in comfort LOL
At the end of the day Mcnab and Ryan wanted to sell books as they were shrewd enough to know it was a good story, why not make a good story a great story?
The only people who know the full, real story are the two authors and the other members of the patrol. I think other than that peter ratcliffe and others at the debrief have the best information regarding B20s performance in the field.
Honestly as soon as I heard 250 killed I was very skeptical, and reminded of Marcus Luttrell's book 'lone survivor' and his claim they fought against 200 men when Taliban footage from the attack shows less than 10 fighters. Still love the movie, but it seems like a common exaggeration
Edit: A lot of this is giving me operation red wings vibes. Dropping in to close, Heli being heard, tracks being seen, claiming locals reported you, its very interesting
Asher is a real warrior, a man who has done it all and more but does not need to write a book and try to embellish his status with lies and non events. Indeed hats off to him for exposing McNab as a liar and far from being a hero was someone whose leadership was a disaster and resulted in the deaths of men under him. Very importantly he restores the prestige of Vince, someone McNab tried to blame for failure because of course Vince couldn't answer. Asher book a soldiers journey through violence is one of the greatest I have read.
eddie90 disagree, Ryan's event not a mile off, but McNab set out to destroy reputations and save his, dead men can't speak as the saying goes. Asher is an adventurer and a man with a strong sense of justice.
Actually McNab didn't vilify Vince as much as Ryan did. Hardly at all in fact. And he openly blamed himself for the mess ups and split of the patrol many times over.
17:00 - If what the locals are saying is true, then why did 8 highly trained, armed and dangerous soldiers leg it leaving behind vital equipment if they were faced only with 3 farmers?
eddie90 - yeah, I think this video is very inaccurate. I think the presenter is far too credulous of the locals' unsubstantiated claims.
Yes Eddie90 I’m sure someone doesn’t embellish their story either to sell more books
@@todd3347 nailed it.
@eddie90. Lol good piece of writing. Alternative ending: "and the whole army started clapping" :)
The locals don't seem old enough to be the same locals there at the time of the events - how many years ago?? Wouldn't they be showing age after all those years and in those harsh conditions??
this reminds me a lot of "lone survivor" with all these heroism fairytales about hundreds of enemies and a 1:10000 unfortunate event that led to mission failure
when in fact it was poorly executed from the beginning and they were overwhelmed
i know a lot of those locals, they tell the truth. they have nothing to gain or loose. they dont care about hollywood or book deals.
i take their word over media soldiers every single day
SAS are the toughest guys ever. Their selection course is lethal and there are years when nobody makes it. In other words, they are hard core. The "official story" makes them look like incompetent mall cops.
Thses things happen. Mistakes are often made, another example of a complete nonsense SF cock up is Lone survivor, the lies in that book are a disgrace to those that died!
Doesn't matter what level training you have or equipment, mistakes can happen and things can go wrong. I don't think we would have any death's at all if everything went to plan everytime. Senile comment
The bland truth does not sell books, no honour for Mcnab & Ryan here.
It's the Santa rule, usually the boring story is the true one. Sounds like they got scared off by 3 Civilians with AKs which lead to more awful situations and more awful decisions, and to say "It's because of some farmers" was too shameful in the after-action report. So they choose the one they don't like to pin it on.
@@shamusbob7969 what you just wrote is just stupid.
"Andy McNab" = Steven Mitchell. "Chris Ryan" = Colin Armstrong.
Świetna historia, która pokazuje jak bardzo oficjalna historia różni się od prawdziwego obrotu zdarzeń
Agree 100% ,the same with the current issue with Australia's own SASR and how a man was killed on their own Helmet camera for the SASR in Afghanistan, a unarmed man no less and also a man who was wounded and then one i think the same sasr men ends up killing him as well, i believe the international criminal tribunal has it as we speak to charge the man under international war crimes laws ,because he murdered a unarmed man and plus he was wounded and the medic was treating him from the SASR group, he was shot in the leg and the wound was treated, it was a through and through wound, yet the man died, which is impossible ? 👍✌👌
The officials that planned this mission should be placed in front of a firing squad. Not knowing elementary things such as the desert in winter can drop into the minuses is ridiculous, especially for a special forces outfit like the SAS. Men died there for nothing. For shame!
VP should be honoured... Mitchell & Armstrong need to come clean #alwaysalittlefurther RIP VP
So according to this, 8 highly trained armed SAS soldiers, are chased away by 3 goat herders, then proceed to run around like a bunch of headless chickens, until they're killed or captured without killing any enemy soldier's!
I have a friend who was in the SAS for several years, turning from a cool as punk rocker to turn up years later already joined, toured in Serbia, Bosnia etc and finally retiring he said that they are very close, brothers and that for Ryan and McNab to betray that by denigrating a colleague in print , even if true , is a real treachery of the comradeship . It seems that McNab in his book consciously made mistake after mistake , once even a civilian knows would be wrong. ( asking " enemy civilians for help ) ? , breaking protocols . Surely when they failed to make regular contact with their HQ there would have been an emergency procedure , one he broke endangering the mission and the team . Leaving a wounded, ailing comrade to the back of a column seem mad and endangered him even more. MnNab seems to have a bit of a chop on his shoulder that seemed borne out in his apparently unprofessional actions.
The book was a novel so we c ant expect all accuracy, that's fair, but to choose to insult a dead soldier is wrong.
Wait but he said at the beginning that it happened 10 years ago, which means this documentary was made early 2000.
They are lucky they made this when they did because they could not have done it 3 years later lol
😂😂
Remember watching 1st account felt uncomfortable about what I had seen glad the truth came out in the end god bless trooper Phillips.
I think Chris Ryan has publicly distanced himself from the TV movie The One That Got Away, as it sensationalised his account of the mission and made several team mates look incompetent. McNab’s account, I think, is highly embellished and was probably tarted up by editors to sell books.
Chris Ryan's real name is Colin Armstrong
Can someone please tell why this guy stopped his trail right when the next part of the journey was Andy McNab being put in prison and being tortured and also very funny how this guy couldn't find anyone from that part of the book as well 🤔🤔.
That is one of my favorite books too.
Whats it called
@@SilverMist0121 ‘Bravo Two Zero’. This guy is following the footsteps of Andy McNab trek through Iraq during the first Iraq war, only to find out it was a lie.
At 30.51 is that their version of tge queens guard bear hats?
Chris Ryan gave a very interesting account of his experience of this action in a Good Vibes Podcast Eps 27. He doesn’t come across as a lying, maybe he is, but I kinda believe what he says. Particularly the bit when drinking contaminated water from a chemical factory, not something that one would make up.
They mistaken the boys goats for Iraq soldiers, easy thing to do when you have had the best training the MOD can give you.
They did not
Coming from Hereford you meet a lot of personnel active duty and retired. The stories are all different
Most stories are people don't have a clue
Thank you, Micheal Asher, for tracking down the truth, the people in the SAS and the world need to know the truth, as bad as it was, and a disgrace to your SAS and England, it was the right thing to do. The truth will always set you free. Hopefully, the SAS has learned from this and training them better. No one is perfect. RIP Vince Phillips.
After all this information i do hope the SAS had some serious talks with Mcnab and the other writer, for a SF unit where Integrity and honesty stand above all, this clip shows a hell of alot of lies from both writers, and that over the back of there god damn bloodbrother, that is absolutely inexcusable, you never ever sell out your team mate, its the highest form of betrayal in SF units. If they can proof this evidence in this clip, SAS should strip mcnab and the other writer from there military ranks, dishonorable discharge them and make them repay any benefits they already recieved.
The whole operation was an absolute abortion , I lost one of my best pals on the patrol Bob Consiglio who was my oppo at 40 Commando Royal Marines. RIP Bob.
Giant ants did it all. 🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🐜🔑🌕🎑🌛🔫
The SAS have been operating in the dessert since 1972 and prior to that UK forces as far back as Aden 1960's
Thanks for sharing.
Twitchy?? Doubt that very much the men of the SAS are made of granite legends to a man.... If it weren't for these types of soldier we as a united kingdom would be in a load of trouble god bless them all👍👍👍
Exactly if he was that twitchy or nervous that would've been found out during their practice or selection and he most definslty wouldn't have been on the trip. Didn't make sense to me.
I like how the sheperd boy (@ 11:30) walks out of the vast desert up to them and shakes their hands! He must be part camel!
@beary tha wizard! Hahahahaha!! A camel? What r u smoking? Share.
@@Peter-cb8xr ??