Best Adhesives for Chair Repair
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- Опубликовано: 16 фев 2020
- Restoring a chair presents special problems. The wooden surfaces are covered with old glue and the joints are loose, making it difficult to create a strong bond. And not only must you reassemble the chair parts, the adhesive you use must fill the voids in the loose joints. We test several readily-available glues for both their strength and gap-filling properties. We also investigate several materials made just for chair repair that claim to secure the joints either by filling the gaps or swelling the wood to fit.
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Wow. Thanks for the very thorough testing and explanations. This is exactly what I was hoping to find today!!! Super helpful!
Thank you so much. I need to tighten six ancient chairs and your video has helped me choose my glue. Your expertise and precision is unmatched.
Another great and informative video Nick! It would be great to see some testing on best glue to use where the old glue cannot be completely removed, such as under loose veneer.
Exactly what I needed, thanks.
Truly outstanding!
Great commentary and presentation!
Thanks, very informative.
Thanks Nick, great test.
Most welcome.
Perfect info
This is amazing 🤩
Great video as always, good to see you.
Thanks, Joe.
hi, I just subscribed to your channel and I'm a handyman and I love your channel I'm learning things I didn't know, I'm 77 years old and I'm still learning, bravo, bravo
Thanks for the kind words.
Very informative, Thanks for the glue testing video, might have to change glues when repairing chairs.
Thanks for your kind words.
I believe this video channel is underrated. You seem very knowledgeable to me. I also really appreciate the research you do. You are not a simple carpenter, but an educated person. Besides, you seem like a very nice person. I base this opinion on two episodes I've seen. I'm going to subscribe now, although I'm already chock-full with dozens of subscriptions to RUclips channels.
Thanks for the kind words.
Wow! Very informative video. Wish I would’ve seen this years ago, considering how many chairs have just went in the trash as unfixable. 🤦🏻♀️
Thanks.
Thanks. I have found epoxy with filler is the way to go to fill voids in a joint. However, future disassembly will be nearly impossible. Outside of that I use Titebond II as I feel it's not only strong but has some tolerance to the flexing a chair joint undergoes over time. On antiques, if I can, I will use Hide Glue, but it is not as good, in my opinion for hard, daily use. In addition, it can be a challenge to re-construct a chair using hide glue with its limited open time. The ChairRx works great when you can't get the joint apart. I have injected that in compromised joints and it has worked well. Thanks again and best regartds.
Thanks for the additional information. And just to add a little more -- you can get an epoxy joint apart if you heat it. The cheaper epoxies (the ones you're most likely to buy at hardware stores) go semi-plastic at 165 degrees F. I set my heat gun on the lowest possible setting and keep it well back from the wood.
Hi Nick, I just found your channel today and love it! Your test had an oops in it though, The Epoxy and Resorcinol were done with your scale set to Lb the rest were Kg. It didn't change your result because the adhesion vs. cohesion is more important, which I just learned! Thanks for the channel you are doing great work teaching people like me :)
We're aware of the problem, and there's nothing we can do to correct it. As you pointed out, the test is still valid given the properties we set out to explore.
Hey, maybe you should try E6000 glue on this test. I've found this glue to be amazingly strong, but it does take a long time to reach maximum strength. I think it can take up to 72 hours for a thick application. I've used it to repair all kinds of things made of metal, wood, fabric and plastic. None of the repairs I have made have failed yet. I used it to make a seam on the bottom of some pants I cut off (I hate sewing) and they have survived rough use and at least four washings so far with no signs of the glue failing. Did I mention it remains flexible? Well, of course it has to in that fabric application, but I didn't use a solid stream, I just tacked the fabric to itself every inch or so.
The Elmer's pro bond glue might not be good for chair repair but I would still suggest buying a bottle. It works great for any kindof porous ceramic/porcelain and glass. So anytime one of the wife's little decorations or knickknacks breaks I've used it and been very surprised and satisfied with the results.
I wonder how a combination of the rip strips with the last two would perform, maybe even the best 5 0f the first test?
Thanks -very informative! I searched on your website for the adhesive comparisons .pdf you mentioned and could not find it..
Garry not Linda. Ya, me too.
Sorry about that. We moved the PDF to the Workshop Companion General Store at workshopcompanion.selz.com/item/comparing-glues-for-chair-repair in a blatant attempt to get folks to browse our books and plans. But it's still free. And there's a free book at the store as well.
Regarding hot glue, I seem to have better luck using it for woodworking tasks now that I have one of those higher-end glue guns with a range of settings up to 400 degrees. It may be just my imagination, but at the high temperatures I get about 5 seconds additional open time and the bond seems to be extremely strong. As a bonus I can release the bond by exposing the glue to isopropyl alcohol.
I think it would be interesting to see your same tests repeated on hot glue applied at various temperature settings.
I've tried repairing the kitchen chairs with hot glue, like you said there is no way to move fast enough. I tried a few other failed "quick fixes" as well. Ultimately what worked for me was fully disassembling the stretchers, cleaning all the accumulated gunk out of the tenons and mortises, applying Elmer's Wood Glue Max, and clamping.
Interesting. Maybe that's why I have not had much luck with hot glue--cheap glue gun and probably too cheap glue as well. I only use it for temporary things or for things that don't encounter much stress.
They make incredibly strong hot melt glues, some generic industrial brand I can find for cheap in a local store has a dual melt and "Industrial" High Temp only stick that is milky white. This stuff melts at 180-210 C and is a lot stiffer. When liquefied at high temp and applied to a rough porous material, it sticks really well, almost as much if not more than wood glues or epoxy.
The nice thing is that it can also "braze weld" Polyethylene or polypropylene plastics that are otherwise unglueable. I say braze weld because it makes a joint as strong as attempting to plastic weld it. Silicones, polyurethanes (1 or 2 part) don't stick as well.
Nice test, but most glues have to be clamped to get tight fits. Try the test again, but employing a method of applying a standard clamping force. I was a little disappointed that you did not explain whether you were using bottled hide glue (or heated vs. room temperature) or actually using the correct ratio of hide glue "pearls" dissolved in a quantity of water for a few hours, then heated to a constant 140 F until it was at the proper consistency for application. Your idea of using the threaded rod as a spreader is great for getting an even coat of glue. Your production quality is also amazingly good. Thanks for making these very helpful videos, and consider taking a look at the Project Farm channel on RUclips to see how a Missouri farmer develops and applies excellent testing procedures to all types of glues, oils, tools, wrenches and other common products most of us use frequently.
Nick - thanks for this. The handout is great & I like your videos. I'm curious about resorcinal - 75 lbs. which is very good compared to most others. What didn't you like?
Doesn't fill the gaps, Dan. When you've got a tenon racking back and forth in a mortise for a couple of years, there are likely so big gaps between the wood surfaces.
I would have been curious of how PL would work
Very interesting experimentation and good explanations. Thanks!!
I wonder whether elasticity (or its negative brittleness) is also a major characteristic important for furniture adhesives. Could there be a case made for using for instance construction adhesives, due to some resistance to various stressors, if the joint indeed is experiencing some movement?
Most wood glues provide some elasticity to allow for wood movement. But as elasticity increases, cohesion decreases. There is a balance. If there is some inherent flex in a joint, it's usually better to use a wood with a high modulus of elasticity rather than an highly elastic adhesive.
@@WorkshopCompanion Thanks very much for an informative reply. Looking into the elastic modulus, I think you mean using wood with a *lower* elastic modulus for applications where some flex will be needed, as it will be more supple, or less stiff with the lower elastic modulus , even if the term kind of suggest the other way around. Elastic modulus is apparently stress divided by strain. Materials which strain more under a given stress are more supple, less stiff, and have a lower elastic modulus. Thanks again for your video and analysis. This was just some semantics.
Not at all surprised to see the epoxy win the raw numbers game - epoxy is somewhat legendary for its ability to hold things together. Was surprised to see the Titebond do so well, given the lack of clamping. I'm only somewhat familiar with wood glues in general, but I know that Titebond is one generally considered to require clamping to produce an acceptable bond, and looking at the amount of wood in that break, it's pretty clear that the glue wasn't really at fault for that failure.
Does make me wonder why the epoxy scored so much higher, though - if it's a failure in the wood, the number should reflect the strength of the wood, and as long as you used the same wood for each part, that variable should be accounted for. Or does the strength of the lignin bonds in wood just vary *that* much?
I also wondered about the epoxy withstanding such a higher lifting force... one possible explanation (that I have no backing for) could be the elasticity of the titebond vs epoxy? Perhaps the titebond was so inelastic that all of the strain had to happen between the wood fibers, where they eventually failed. In the epoxy joint, perhaps the epoxy began to strain before the wood, and as such could withstand an even higher stress and strain before failing?
had you thought of the old casein glue yes is water mixed but wow know it holds well, takes time to dry, and does usually need pressure but not always just a thought, we used it in the joinery shop way back when along with hot hide glue for windows and doors on the tenons along with wedges ,when cramping with the joinery clamp
Like many old-timers, I've used casein and like it well enough, but it's properties have long since been surpassed by the advances in adhesive chemistry over the last eighty years. And these days, it's hard to find -- unless there's a good reason for using a specific product, I try to contrate on things that folks can easily obtain.
I reglue chair joints for a living. I've been doing it for over 30 years. In your test for all of the glues you used bare wood against bare wood with no clamping. When regluing chair joints you've got joints that have had glue on them when assembled in the factory. The testing that you've shown does not replicate gluing chair joints. Yellow and white glues must have clamping pressure to force the glue into the joints. Yellow and white glues do not work for filling gaps or for joints that have already had glue in them from assembly. Laying boards on each other with no clamping is not how to explain regluing chair joints. For chair joints I use a 2 part epoxy with a powdered filler to give it a thickness. I've glued thousands of chairs with this epoxy and the joints do not come apart. I can't tell you how many chairs have been brought to me by professional woodworkers that have tried several times to reglue the joints with yellow glue. You've done some real good table saw videos, but sorry, this video does not explain how to reglue chair joints properly.
Great info. Two-part epoxy with powdered filler ... like sawdust?
@@MG-vo7is No not sawdust. The company I purchase from sells it as part of the system. It's white and very fine. I mix it to whatever thickness I need for each job. Joints are solid as concrete when fully cured in 2 days.
I’m sure your method is superior, but to be fair to our hero, the epoxy he used held up extremely well with no clamping.
this clip is for people who are NOT professional. they'd buy whatever glue is available.
Glad to see this comment, I've used yellow glue with poor results, I've 28 spindles to go back into an Ercol couch and will be using epoxy with colloidal silica to thicken. Hoping it doesn't go off too quick!
I'm surprised that you did not try the Gorilla wood glue in this
They make incredibly strong hot melt glues, some generic industrial brand I can find for cheap in a local store has a dual melt and "Industrial" High Temp only stick that is milky white. This stuff melts at 180-210 C and is a lot stiffer when set. When liquefied at high temp and applied to a rough porous material, it sticks really well, almost as much if not more than wood glues or epoxy. Beware, it's hard to remove from surfaces.
The nice thing is that it can also "braze weld" Polyethylene or polypropylene plastics that are otherwise unglueable. I say braze weld because it makes a joint as strong as attempting to plastic weld it. Silicones, polyurethanes (1 or 2 part) don't stick as well.
My project is a low Japanese table that has come apart on two legs and has two loose leg joints. It was made with triple miters for the leg to apron conection. It looks to have been repaired before. My question is how the glues will cohere to the old glue if I just try to put it together with glue over old glue or do I have to remove the old glue to get a good bond.
Any help would be appreciated.
‘Good video…..learned a lot.
John from California
Glues are formulated to adhere to wood. There is no way to tell how well they might adhere to another glue that's already cured without testing the bond. And you have no way of knowing if the old glue is properly bonded to the wood -- the fact that the glue joints are lose suggests that it isn't. Best scrape off the old glue.
In the Epoxy and the Resorcinol tests, the scale was on LB, and the rest of the tests it was on KG.... ;)
Resorcinol - I am surprised that it is still around. I remember using it in the 1960's while helping my father making several projects. But I have not seen it available for several decades. Maybe I'm not shopping in the correct places ...
Still used extensively in the plywood industry. And turners still use it in glue-ups -- the tight reddish line that it leaves can be used to create intricate patterns.
I wonder how much better some of those glues would perform when clamped. I know the Gorilla Glue does much better when clamped, and I suspect the wood glues would be similar.
can you please make a video on how to make horse saws, thanks
We provide detailed plans and instructions on saw horses here: workshopcompanion.selz.com/item/handling-and-cutting-plywood
You could use the briwax first to expand the tennon then after its cured use the stuff in the smaller bottle to fill the remaining gap
Good thinking -- that's another possible way to get it done. Trouble is, it takes more time and expense that just going straight to epoxy.
I’m watching this while sitting on a kitchen chair I need to reglue again
XD
I appreciate the review but I'm sticking with my sparkly glow in the dark school glue.🤣
Hi, just came across your video on the best glue for chair repair. I'm a few years late but hopefully you're able to answer one question for me. the Briwax glue that made the spindle expand, I wonder if over time if the spindle would shrink back to it's original size? Great video 👍
No. I've used it for several applications, and never noticed any shrinkage over time.
@@WorkshopCompanion thank you, I appreciate it 👍
Any suggestions on just covering the surface and filling gaps (with something clear) that’s easy to use?
Epoxy.
@@WorkshopCompanion thank you...err and sorry again to ask you...any specific epoxy that is easy to work with (I find it very messy, it's not my strong point). Thank you thank you! So kind for responding :)
@@ac1dbrn Epoxy is messy no mater what the brand; there's no getting around it. And ordinary workshop solvents won't clean it up. Suggest you use white vinegar for clean-up; this alleviates the messiness somewhat. Not entirely, but at least it makes your hands feel less sticky.
Wrap string around the length of the tenon and put glue on it and push it in, the string tightens it up and acts like a shim. Use natural string not synthetic.
With the fillers, I think the one that expands it for the initial repair. Then use the other one to finish filling and bonding it. This would be obviously the best way without taking the chair apart.
The way I've clamped everything at once is wrap thin rope around all the legs and tie it. Next take a stick and put it under the rope and start twisting the stick until it's nice and tight. Then tie something around the end of the stick to part of the chair leg to keep it from untwisting. This holds everything without having to use any clamps.
Thanks for the tips.
Sorry, I'm new at this. Where do you find that link, as I can't find it?
workshopcompanion.selz.com/
I'm sure I don't have as much experience with woodworking as most other viewers here, but when I've needed a combination of both glue and filler I've been mixing Titebond III with wood dust. It seems to have worked well so far, though I'd love to hear any pro or con feedback from anyone here!
The glue/sawdust recipe is a handy go-to filler for many, but poses two problems. As an adhesive, the sawdust reduces the cohesion of the glue joint. As a filler, the sawdust swells when mixed with water-based glues, then shrinks as it cures and dries.
@@WorkshopCompanion Good info, Thanks!
I love your videos! However, I have a different perspective to offer on chair joints. I would rather NOT have the glue be stronger than the wood itself. I've seen too many breaks where the wood splinters instead of failing at the joint. This makes repairs much more difficult. I prefer hot hide glue for this reason. Also, previous hide glue is easier to remove when you need to clean and reglue joints. Although, I will agree that hide glue doesn't fill gaps very well.
Thanks again for the fantastic content!
Most welcome. And I see your point about hide glue but (1) the proper mixing and application of hot hide glue is a video in itself, and (2) it's difficult to make a case for doing a repair so that the repair itself can be easily repaired.
Nick great video but I'm not sure if you noticed but your gauge started out in lbs then jumped to kg at Elmers????
+1 for mentioning hide glue - particularly since it is mentioned in connection with period/antique furniture.
Having said that, hide glue is (probably) the only non-vegetarian glue. In that respect, for completeness purposes, shouldn't pine sap (or other tree resin) glue also be mentioned? Is this stuff even available to buy? I know pine gum rosin is but I haven't been able to locate pine resin glue. This stuff is so easy to make, however, that buying it is next to pointless - unless there are no pine trees near you of course. I'd like to believe that pine sap glue has similar properties to hide glue but it's not an exact equivalent.
I'm thinking that if you combine the grip strip with a gap-filling glue, you should get very good results.
The problem with that grip strip is that it really tears up the mortise if you need to adjust the joint. You've got just one shot.
Why did you not clamp the joints? Nearly all glues have instructions that recommend clamping. I think this definitely put the Gorilla glue at a disadvantage, and it probably hurt the performance of other glues.
I've dragged hundreds of chairs out of trash piles and repaired them to give away later. People use all kinds of dumb ideas to try to fix them from nails and screws to duct tape to even Scotch tape. Sometimes I even have to drill out the original mortise and insert a matching piece of dowel glued in and fixed in with wooden wedge then redrill when the glue sets and start over with the hole.. Easy to get creative when it's free furniture.. No returns so far..
Here's hoping you keep on keeping on. Thanks for sharing.
thick and quick is only formulated to not run and set in 15 minutes so you failed
Yes
what's up with the 2 minute commercials ?
We don't get to choose when or what commercials will show up. That's all RUclips.