NICHE DUO Review & Teardown
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2024
- The authoritative review, teardown, and taste test of the new NICHE DUO coffee grinder, a multitasker that ships with two pairs of 83 mm flat burrs, one pair for espresso and one for brewing. Here's everything you need to know about this unique machine in a single video.
First, I consider the design and mechanical features, then perform a teardown and evaluate the component quality and manufacturing tolerances. I move on to flavor characteristics in espresso and pour-over, where I compare it to the Niche Zero and the Mahlkönig EK43. I wrap up with a few minor criticisms.
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#coffeegrinder #espresso
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Coucou mes enfants! There's a lot of info here, but I'm already planning follow-ups with emphasis on flavor, trying different coffees, which burr pair suits the Moka pot, etc. This has a lot of potential. Enjoy the vid!
Thiiiiisssss thank you
It's great to hear an analysis from an engineering point of view especially regarding wear and galling on the threads. It's good to see that Niche engineers know what they are doing
Great detail in your review! It looks to me as if they were really able to put together a great grinder for both espresso and filter. The main problem I see: Who changes their burrs muktiple times a day if you for example drink flat white in the morning, filter coffee during the day and an espresso in the afternoon? That’s just something I wouldn’t want to do. I prefer having dedicated grinders for both purposes. Thus, I think it would be great if niche offered customers to choose if they want espresso, filter or both burrs and have different prices for these.
It’s Videos like these that make RUclips great. And great, no background music!
can you do a little more in depth about flavor different between Niche zero and new duo\Espresso only please Thanks
nice review. looking forward to your paper filter video
Thanks for a professional review Thomas. I have both grinders. Even though Niche offered to sell me only one burr set lowering the price, I bought both because I too like to fiddle with coffee toys. I was interested to find out if I could taste any difference between espresso shots between the Duo and Zero (medium to dark roast). I turns out that I could and preferred the taste from the Duo. I use the Duo everyday for espresso and occasionally bring out the Zero for V60. My rationale for using the Zero for V60 is that the extra fines generated from a conical grinder would be captured by the paper filter and not end up in the cup. That said, I'm sure that the fines change the flavour during the V60 extraction.
Your content is so well put together and informative. I appreciate the time and effort that go into these videos. What I tend to like to most are your realistic expectations when it comes to what these machines can do and how they are designed. 10/10
re: 88 vs 85 db at or around 5:40, a reduction by 3 decibels equates to a reduction of sound energy by about half. This is partially why the Zero is less offensive. Nice review. Thanks for your time.
Love your reviews. As a mechanical engineer really appreciate the teardown and analysis of the hardware.
I have a Duo, and thanks to this video, I'm even more pleased with my purchase 😂
Thanks for commenting on how loud the grinder is. As someone who only owns a hand grinder, this is a big criteria for me and I find it very hard to judge grinder noise levels or even pitch from youtube videos.
Remember, this is a pre production model so I can tell you that the production version is a little quieter. That said, it has got 83mm burrs!
Just a note about the circuit board and motor. It is a DC motor, but you'll notice the frequency marking on it. This is because it is designed to work with rectified DC, with no further smoothing. Such a waveform is hardly DC, but it has a large DC component. As the board shows, it has a diode bridge but no smoothing capacitance at all. This is good. The motor doesn't require it and caps large enough to do the job would be electrolytic, so prone to failure in the long term.
The caps that are on that board are much smaller values. They take the edge of the noise the motor creates to keep it off the wires in your home; they are noise suppression.
I like this technical review - most informative.
Yes I am here because I like the details and breakdown pieces of information laid down very precisely all in one channel. Kudos.
Have been waiting for this one!
As usual, nice video. Any chance you will look at the Timemore Sculptors?
How do the Eureka filter burrs compare to the Duo's filter burrs? Btw, I am really enjoying your channel, keep up the good work!
This is the video that made me buy the Duo. I am very picky about build quality and this was very persuasive. A few things I dont like: The design of the adjustment mechanism isn't really well thought out from an engineering standpoint because the burr carrier rests against the threaded funnel directly. This isn't ideal when it comes to alignment and I doubt I'll have much success doing any manual alignment because it will likely be off again the next time you unscrew the funnel. But this design is the easiest way to do it, I guess that is why they chose it. I also dont like the anti-popcorning insert. I cut it out and replaced it with the Niche Zero Flow Control Disc. It works just like on the Zero, despite the higher RPM and the shallower funnel and popcorning is completely eliminated.
I noticed that the burr carriers could be modded in a way that would make it possible to install blind burrs. So if any manufacturer starts selling 83 mm blind burrs that fit my desired taste profile, I will try to mod them!
Excellent review. Thorough, fair, analytical - thanks for the great work. I have a Niche Zero and enjoy it. Thinking about upgrading, but probably more interested in the DF64V since it allows burr swapping with many 64mm burr sets. I feel like I know your voice and pace and manner from headphone reviews…Thanks again!
Great video! You've made the point in several videos that home products having adequate enough build quality for occasional use is acceptable. Perhaps a philosophical difference, but I think we can agree that watch you used as an example can be passed down from generation to generation whereas the Niche with it's nylon geared motor won't. I know what you are trying to say but it misses folks who pay more for industrial quality with the hope it outlasts them. Maybe you commented on that and I just missed it... thought it was worth commenting - have a great day!
Ian, why do you think Niche selected nylon gear box parts?
@@dfk41 price/availability. In a past vid G compared it to drill motor - maybe off the shelf for a drill. Strength aside, nylon gets brittle with time which is unfortunate.
@@IanLandesman Okie dokie, price and availability are nothing to do with it. it is not a drill motor either! The motor is custom wound to Niche engineers specs and after 5 years in the field, there have been remarkably few reported failings of anything, let alone the motor and gearbox. I do not know enough about nylon becoming brittle. Are you able to give a timescale for that please?
@@dfk41 decades. To give you example, the nylon gear in my Harley Davidson oil distribution system will fail before most anything else on the bike, which is all older than you or I combined. Not to say it's all 'reliable' as it requires maintenance... bushings, seals, and oil all need replacement many times over that nylon gear. They make metal replacements aftermarket. The geared cam shaft made of metal will outlive us.
It's less about the motor lifespan and more about it's maintainability. In 100 years can it be replaced or serviced?
I know, if probably doesn't matter to 99.9% of customers, but worth discussing to a 'niche' group of nerds like us.
@@IanLandesman I am all with you on something lasting a long time, but that has a caveat of course! The Niche is aimed at the domestic market, so the question is what is an acceptable amount of time before a domestic product begins to fail? For myself, paying £500 for a domestic grinder I would be happy if it lasted 10 years or so, aparticularly
Thanks for this - informative as always and greatly appreciated.
Wow! thanks for the great in-depth video! Great stuff as always!
Would you recommend that white tape for the DF64 too? 🤔
awesome video. I love the content, especially how you describe how accuracy and precision changes, while grinding beans. I was thinking the same and want to eliminate that factor as much as possible for the grinder I build.
would be interesting to measure "precision under load" on machines.
apply a certain side force to the weakest burr and measure the gap. that should give us a good comparison, what happens under load
How come you don't feel the need to fill the video with closeups of you talking for 75% of the time of the video, as most other coffe machine equipment reviewers?
Because my videos aren't about me :)
I’ve been waiting for this video.
Loved the review. Looking forward to the Espresso Paper review!
Nice to see you Brent. It's definitely in the works. I just had 2 grinders pop up on the radar unexpectedly and figured I should deal with them first.
@@wiredgourmet I agree! Keep up the amazing content
Really enjoyed the video. Thank you for sharing.
What would you reccomend fpr just espresso? The zero or duo? The smaller form of the zero could help me travelling to south asia, speakign of which is it safe to use there?
The ek43 is like the wood hipper of the coffee bean good solid German engineering
I'm not an expert and agree with your caveats, but as far as I know noise measurements are usually performed with the microphone 1m away from the device, that's why you were getting significantly higher readings.
Hi, your videos are brilliant, just had to say that first. Regarding the ptfe tape would this work for other grinders such as the Mazzer super jolly v pro ? Because the adjustment collar on this thing is so stiff and jumpy. Thanks. Also what food safe lubricant would you suggest for threads? 👍
Thank you.
I like your idea on the adding tape to smooth out the grind adjustment . What are those tapes and where to find them ?
PTFE tape. It’s used for plumbing requirements normally
Really appreciate your videos! Am planning on getting a cafelat robot because of you! :) My 1 question please: ive heard that pairing it with a good hand grinder is not recommended! Would you say this is true?
Love your videos!🎉
I loved this review and the technical analysis. #Awesome!
Great video as usual.
You made an interesting comment. You said you roasted the coffee so it wasn't too dark for pour over or too light for espresso? I understand dark roast tasting worse in pour over compared to lighter roasts... but VERY interested in knowing if you meant coffee can be too lightly roasted for espresso and why you think that???
I'm NOT roasting my coffee, but I prefer most light roasted coffees as espresso rather than pour over. They DO taste different. Is it just my preference? Do you feel some coffees that are lightly roasted are better as pour over and you dislike as espresso? Really interested in your thoughts and wondering if you feel strongly one way or another only after having roasted your own coffee?
I think it's just preference.
I strongly prefer lighter roasts for espresso - even in milk drinks.
Sometimes I actually don't mind slightly darker roasts as filter coffee funny enough.
@@marcusannegarn8497 thanks for the reply. I go back and forth but prefer light roasts for espresso even in milk drinks too. Maybe we like variety?
A lighter roast will be denser. That means less volume of grounds in the basket, which will affect water flow and shot times.
I don't think it's an issue so much as WG prefers a consistent cup of coffee. A lighter roast has much smaller margins of error, and we're all only human.
Very light roasted coffee has high acidity. When brewed as espresso, the shots are very acidic. Some people don’t like that acidity, especially in milk beverages. Ultimately, it’s personal preference
In my case the issue is water; mine is comically soft, so light roasts are brutally sour. Yeah, I could treat it, and I do a little bit, but largely I've just adapted to it :)
I would have liked to see you go over the zeroing function for the burrs. When would it be good to do it? How does it work?
hi, i have this exact vid on my channel
Hi Thomas. What are your thoughts on the Timemore Sculptor grinders? Can you share some impressions even thought you (probably?) haven't had the chance to get a hold of one yet? I know it's probably against your principles of just quoting manufacturer's specs :) ... but I (and many others) would really like to get a review or just some thoughts from a guy who isn't overwhelmingly positive.
why not make the indexing pins for the upper carrier non-symmetric so you wouldn't have to guess which was the best orientation??
nice video, thanks 👍
Thank you
I use aeropress paper filters on top of puck like you, it helps even the water and keeps the brew head very clean. It is cheap and great tweak everyone must do! Spread the word jesus
May I know the motor rating/ spec difference between niche duo and zero ?
Does the niche scratch easily? The chrome the hopper cover? I usually prefer matte pieces
Is the espresso on the duo better then the EK43?
Fantastic exploration! Loved the tear-down. I wanted to ask what your espresso brewing parameters were for this test, i.e. dose, yield, contact time, and pressure. I would like to see if I could use the Duo with filter burrs for allonge and turbo espressos - so I wouldn’t need to go as fine as a baseline shot (1:2 ratio in 28s at 9 bar) might demand.
16 g dose, 32 g yield; ~10 sec preinf (1 g out), 30 sec (+/- 2 secs) shot after preinf. Pump 7.5 ml / sec @ 9 bar. Prolly more important: beans were SHB, v. hard & dense to challenge all grinders. Softer beans will yield slower shots, maybe slow enough. All the other grinders coped with those beans for espr; the Duo with brew burrs didn't, so I called it a fail. YMMV
@@wiredgourmet great, thanks for that! yeah I can see how those filter burrs wouldn’t meet the required grind for those parameters, especially if you’re preinfusing! I love my Zero for milk drinks and my black coffees tend to be very light roasts pulled very long (1:6 ratio) or shorter and very fast (>14s), so looking at the Duo as an option to help with those high clarity low texture espressos. Once again, thanks! I’ll comment back if I end up getting one 🤙
I got confused a little on the shaft tolerance, '1/2000in(12.7μm) or 1/10mm(100μm)' aren't even close. Did you mean '1/200in or 1/10mm' instead?
From your brief shot, I see about 3.5-5 ticks, so that's about 45-65μm.
Regardless, it looks well into the P0 grade bearing(＞10μm) range. For reference, a P64 has P5-grade bearings(5-10μm).
I think maybe you misheard me. I said around 2 thou, not 1 / 2000. Maybe I failed to enunciate clearly?
@@wiredgourmet Sorry I misheard you, thanks for clarifying. I was trying to match something that sounds close to what you said to '1/10mm'.
So '~50-100μm' is what you actually meant to say then.
Very thorough!
Great video, just one complain. To everyone in europe outside UK, this grinder cost around 1100€, due to a tax scam. Just keep that in mind when comparing to other grinders.
Where is the duo manufactured?
18:59 It's impossible to get this grinder new for under 1,000 USD, and you would have to work some magic with EU customs to get this for under 1,000 Euros.
Niche design and workflow is great
But watching that motor plus the teflon gears, makes me go hmmmmm
@@cuprajake1 that doesn't show the wear
@@cuprajake1 i hope so. I am also used to the "lifetime" motor of my super jolly
Nice demo. Let me add a link to that: ruclips.net/video/KULPTJlM9KA/видео.html
It's such a shame that importing these fine products from UK to EU affects final cost by roughly +50%. Niche should find a way to sell from Ireland
Sounds like a Baratza
Am I the only one who is missing the background music?!
Was relieved not to hear it 😂
There is no pleasing you people :)
Background music has become the curse of RUclips. I’ve lost count the number of videos I’ve stopped watching after a few seconds because of background music.
I'm not going to do all the technical fixes you describe. Maybe most of your viewers are, but realistically I'm not.
That considered, after viewing your video I'm no better informed of how well I would probably like the grinder out of the box. I guess I'm not your target audience, but there are not many videos about the Duo, and I'm looking at it, the Zerno, and maybe even the Lagom P64.
One video measured the alignment (parallel to each other) as bad enough to impact flavor. Maybe I was overwhelmed with technical details and terms and tasks, and you actually DID talk about that, but my eyes were glazed over just then and so it snuck past during the overwhelm.
Personally I like that Niche targets a home user with a livable design. But these pre-usage measurements and corrective tasks outweigh the rest.
1st 😊
The fact that they double charge the Vat is a no go for me.
Too much of a scammy behaviour
Great video. But Niche really dropped the ball. Switching burrs is insane. Especially if you like drip and espresso every morning. They could have easily developed one burr for both. Big miss and I thought it was an April fools joke when they said you have to swap burrs.
You might appreciate the Fiorenzato AllGround then. I reviewed it last Fall ruclips.net/video/ul_N-rIMgC0/видео.html
The espresso burr can also do a nice filter brew! The filter brew can not do espresso. They did this for a reason and Im happy they did. I brew filter. I like there is no compromise.
God Bless The Wired Gourmet 🙏☕
God Bless President Trump 🙏🇺🇲
..finally I am not convinced: 1.) do I need, really need the bigger burr size (with a really bigger body size) and, as an only espresso drinker 2.) do I wanna pay a second pair of burrs, which I will never use for sure... (beside the fact that I personally do not like this post modern filter coffee trend - if I wanna drink tea, I drink tea... filter coffee is not for real men;-). ) PS. and not to forget this ugly late photo-mortem Colani design with that silly wood feet etc.)