I love what Joely said about people assuming meltdowns and struggling in some areas are assumed to mean we arent independent and it doesnt mean youre nit an adult who is capable. I always thought it was a weird double standard that if an allistic adult is upset theyre just upset -its not a reflection of their functioning as an independent adult. If theyre depressed, they just need support and are still an independent adult. I get overwhelmed and cant force words out of my mouth and its suddenly a reflection of my mental capacity and im suddenly lowered on some imaginary heirarchy scale. People generally dont operate at their 100% fullest capacity all of the time, but it doesnt mean we become children who are incapable of things all the time just because we feel our emotions in our body differently. It can be disabling, but its not a reflection of the capacity of the person as a whole.
I still struggle to distinguish between true friends and subtle bullies. Narcissistic behaviour patterns are particularly difficult to spot through rose tinted glasses. Understand the being excited to have a new friend or friends but I can’t detect sarcasm and end up being the butt of the jokes and I’m often oblivious to the difference between laughing along or being laughed at when I try to use humour. Some people who don’t know me well can get offended by the way I speak at times. The way I summarise my symptoms of ASD is not the experience all will have, but it’s true to my experience. I am trying to learn to socialise with others in a more friendly way, but I find it easier to bond with animals or Pokémon, humans don’t understand me a lot of the time. At least I feel that way 😅
My eldest son's dad was a narcissist. He verbally and physically abused me and our son. I depended on him. I wouldn't have left but he told me "f***ing leave, then" one day so I did! Shortly after that, I met my husband. He was good and true and helped me see what kind of person my ex was. I didn't know! It's been 23 years. ❤
I have ADHD and Tourette's, and I relate to this conversation too. I have always valued my Autistic friends, and I feel that us neurodivergent people can make good friends to each other. Even if we are different, we tend to accept and understand each other; we value our differences and our strengths compliment each other. I have a bad sense of direction and can get lost easily; my Autistic friend has a photographic memory with maps. I'm good at reading people's facial expressions and body language, my Autistic friend sometimes misses this. We make a good team, and we have empathy for each other. We have solidarity and stand by each other. If you are Autistic and struggle to make friendships, there is probably a person out there with ADHD who will value you for who you are and never try to change you. There is a person out there with Tourette's who will never try to make you stop stimming, because we cannot stop our tics. And we know that society is in the wrong for trying to change us. That's the kind of friend we all need, someone who values us for who we are and would never try to change us.
When people want ASD people to stop stimming, it just makes you stim in your head. Which then leads to us not paying attention as much, because now there’s more in our head. If NTs had to instantly multiply what they’re managing in their head instantly, they would get overwhelmed too.
This is an excellent video, especially the discussion about communication and disagreeing with a partner. It applies to neuro-typical people as well as autistic, because everybody feels abandoned or rejected when they and their partner have a disagreement about something really important. It's always dangerous when we go into a relationship idealizing our prospective partner. I'm in my 70s. I've always felt that men are more likely to make assumptions about women than women are to make assumptions about men. I'm currently exploring whether I may be autistic, so is that a misunderstanding I have because I'm autistic? I honestly don't know. I was married 25 years, and it took a long time to figure out I was being gaslighted. For a long time I thought he really believed the things he said about me. Of course, there were other types of verbal and emotional abuse mixed in.
Wow that does sound really difficult. My ex left me after 5 goodish years and 5 increasingly not good years since I was too scared to end it, I think she was too but finally worked up the courage which I thank her for. I know we were never totally happy, I thought to myself, well no one is totally happy. I'm still recovering 3 years later and my ex wasn't abusive or a liar so I know it must be really tough for you.
That was such an insightful conversation about some of the most destructive situations we face, but which are so difficult to talk about. The last part about reactivity is also so important as I think many of us can get stuck in cycles of reactivity which can be so difficult to break out of. Thank you both so much
I dont think the 'stop stimming' thing is gaslighting. They may believe shes better off without it(and she may be) but I think that sounds more like a disagreement wrapped in a miscommunication. Rather however, I dont think it sounds well intentioned AT ALL. Furthermore, I do think it sounds like the ways they are trying to go about convincing her are atleast forceful is not additionally manipulative and abusive. But not necessarily gaslighting.(Intending to deceive, particularly to get someone to question their own understanding of reality as they already correctly see it, specifically or more broadly.... Telling her to stop stimming isnt deceptive. Its just selfish and unsympathetic and controlling. She MAY be better off if she stops, but there are MANY situations she wont be able to fit in in until or unless she does have control over it. Thats a fact) The degree of impact on her quality of life is subjective and unclear speculatively until after the fact. Hardly gaslighting. Although their methods sound callous and aggressive and dismissive and disrespectful
i think we all just like good music nvm the genre because its almost like they can make us feel something, similar to how we watch sad films or funny films depending on the feeling we want over what the film is
the hardest part of the gaslighting dialogue, being a NT partner to a high functioning autist, is when I do my best to communicate, and have for many years, tried to find a way to just tell him about me, and he accuses me of gaslighting etc, when it doesn't even make sense to. I think maybe just to get out of talking about our relationship, because it's so stressful? What do you think? It's so damaging to get accused of things that are almost ludicrously not applicable. If I didn't know he has ASD, I'd never be able to carry on.
Do some research and see if their claims actually apply. If they don't, find a good reliable source that you can reference. If their intentions are good, they might be misapplying or misusing the term. They probably want to be right about the terms they use so by referring to a reputable source, you're showing a dedication to facts. More importantly, ask. Ask why they call your behavior gaslighting. Explore what they're trying to convey. Don't assume you know why they're saying what they say. Say "I don't understand, explain that to me." Maybe they can't put their ideas into words right away. Give them time to walk away and think about it. If they express their ideas in writing, write letters to each other.
He may be thinking the same thing about you and how hard it is to communicate with you and how ridiculous you are being. Honestly, as an autistic woman, I find it easier to befriend and date neurodivergent people because we can communicate better than neurotypicals. Neurotypicals often expect us to read minds which I think is impractical. So I stick with people with ADHD and/or autism. It’s been much easier.
You try to tell him about you and he accuses you of gaslighting? That sounds so disjointed I don't know what to make of it. Can you give an example, as in can you repeat roughly the actual dialogue of one of your conversations?
If you are truly only “telling him about yourself”, it is impossible to be gaslighting someone. If there are statements in your communication about them and they and what they are or are not doing then there leaves A LOT of room for gaslighting to be a potential reality. If you’re telling someone “i am xyz” and they’re like “you’re gaslighting me” - that just doesn’t make sense. Maybe get specific about what it is you want to explain to him so dearly, and get some coaching on how best to deliver it. 🤷🏽♀️
@felixoupopote It does make sense, for example she says "I feel hurt about this..." and he replies, "You can't feel hurt about that; there's nothing to be hurt about!" "You have no right to feel hurt!" -- That's exactly what gaslighting is.
People acting like they understand and then proceed to tell me to act normal is getting to me. I've never had a girlfriend, can't find a woman who would want me. I see no future where I'm happy.
It’s weird to me that Dbuds seems to include HSP, hypersensitivity disorder, and ADHD (even specifies for children and adults separately) in their marketing, but there’s not any mention of autism or ASD at all on any of the marketing on their site.
OMG This so sounds like me! I'm 50 and my life has always been quite dysfunctiomnal to the point where I am unemployed and feel unemployable. I don't have a formal diagnposios and I wouldn't know how to go about getting diagnsed but It deffinatly would help if I had some support. How does one get a diagnosis in the uk?
😂at crafting a mutual agreement. I know what you mean but mighttttt I offer the language of : able to constantly initiate direct communication and adapt/create compromise between two multi faceted individuals. Two people dedicated to creating a Symbiosis. Lol idk I tried 😂
I'm confused how a person who didn't talk until 8 can be aspergers? What are the new criteria for asperger where it is still employed? That term is gone here but a huge agenda putting in my mouth that i am and constantly claim i am "Asperger" (agenda=never had and never will need any pause from brutality/eradication) but totally false! My parents tried and failed to get me reassigned to that elite class but i had no language before 2 and only echolalia atabout 6-9. I may have allowed them to label me while in process but never since 3Decades!. MandelaEffect is all i can comeupwith.
It's infuriating! Well, to be fair, as an able-bodied, very athletic autistic person with a university degree I don't get treated like a toddler, not like a baby.
In old age it is also ignorant, never experienced any life nor put effort and most often, constant liar, Among all manner of confabulation to imbue their reality into any autistic person. Indirect, pc brutality.
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I love what Joely said about people assuming meltdowns and struggling in some areas are assumed to mean we arent independent and it doesnt mean youre nit an adult who is capable. I always thought it was a weird double standard that if an allistic adult is upset theyre just upset -its not a reflection of their functioning as an independent adult. If theyre depressed, they just need support and are still an independent adult. I get overwhelmed and cant force words out of my mouth and its suddenly a reflection of my mental capacity and im suddenly lowered on some imaginary heirarchy scale. People generally dont operate at their 100% fullest capacity all of the time, but it doesnt mean we become children who are incapable of things all the time just because we feel our emotions in our body differently. It can be disabling, but its not a reflection of the capacity of the person as a whole.
I still struggle to distinguish between true friends and subtle bullies. Narcissistic behaviour patterns are particularly difficult to spot through rose tinted glasses. Understand the being excited to have a new friend or friends but I can’t detect sarcasm and end up being the butt of the jokes and I’m often oblivious to the difference between laughing along or being laughed at when I try to use humour. Some people who don’t know me well can get offended by the way I speak at times. The way I summarise my symptoms of ASD is not the experience all will have, but it’s true to my experience. I am trying to learn to socialise with others in a more friendly way, but I find it easier to bond with animals or Pokémon, humans don’t understand me a lot of the time. At least I feel that way 😅
I relate
My eldest son's dad was a narcissist. He verbally and physically abused me and our son. I depended on him. I wouldn't have left but he told me "f***ing leave, then" one day so I did! Shortly after that, I met my husband. He was good and true and helped me see what kind of person my ex was. I didn't know! It's been 23 years. ❤
I have ADHD and Tourette's, and I relate to this conversation too. I have always valued my Autistic friends, and I feel that us neurodivergent people can make good friends to each other. Even if we are different, we tend to accept and understand each other; we value our differences and our strengths compliment each other. I have a bad sense of direction and can get lost easily; my Autistic friend has a photographic memory with maps. I'm good at reading people's facial expressions and body language, my Autistic friend sometimes misses this. We make a good team, and we have empathy for each other. We have solidarity and stand by each other. If you are Autistic and struggle to make friendships, there is probably a person out there with ADHD who will value you for who you are and never try to change you. There is a person out there with Tourette's who will never try to make you stop stimming, because we cannot stop our tics. And we know that society is in the wrong for trying to change us. That's the kind of friend we all need, someone who values us for who we are and would never try to change us.
When people want ASD people to stop stimming, it just makes you stim in your head. Which then leads to us not paying attention as much, because now there’s more in our head. If NTs had to instantly multiply what they’re managing in their head instantly, they would get overwhelmed too.
This is an excellent video, especially the discussion about communication and disagreeing with a partner. It applies to neuro-typical people as well as autistic, because everybody feels abandoned or rejected when they and their partner have a disagreement about something really important.
It's always dangerous when we go into a relationship idealizing our prospective partner. I'm in my 70s. I've always felt that men are more likely to make assumptions about women than women are to make assumptions about men. I'm currently exploring whether I may be autistic, so is that a misunderstanding I have because I'm autistic? I honestly don't know.
I was married 25 years, and it took a long time to figure out I was being gaslighted. For a long time I thought he really believed the things he said about me. Of course, there were other types of verbal and emotional abuse mixed in.
Wow that does sound really difficult. My ex left me after 5 goodish years and 5 increasingly not good years since I was too scared to end it, I think she was too but finally worked up the courage which I thank her for. I know we were never totally happy, I thought to myself, well no one is totally happy. I'm still recovering 3 years later and my ex wasn't abusive or a liar so I know it must be really tough for you.
That was such an insightful conversation about some of the most destructive situations we face, but which are so difficult to talk about. The last part about reactivity is also so important as I think many of us can get stuck in cycles of reactivity which can be so difficult to break out of. Thank you both so much
Who is Joely? Does she have her own podcast or something? What is her surname? I’d love to follow her too. This conversation is brilliant. Thanks
Amazing episode. Thank you! I’m definitely going to listen again because there’s so much great stuff here ❤
I dont think the 'stop stimming' thing is gaslighting. They may believe shes better off without it(and she may be) but I think that sounds more like a disagreement wrapped in a miscommunication.
Rather however, I dont think it sounds well intentioned AT ALL.
Furthermore, I do think it sounds like the ways they are trying to go about convincing her are atleast forceful is not additionally manipulative and abusive. But not necessarily gaslighting.(Intending to deceive, particularly to get someone to question their own understanding of reality as they already correctly see it, specifically or more broadly.... Telling her to stop stimming isnt deceptive. Its just selfish and unsympathetic and controlling. She MAY be better off if she stops, but there are MANY situations she wont be able to fit in in until or unless she does have control over it. Thats a fact)
The degree of impact on her quality of life is subjective and unclear speculatively until after the fact. Hardly gaslighting.
Although their methods sound callous and aggressive and dismissive and disrespectful
i think we all just like good music nvm the genre because its almost like they can make us feel something, similar to how we watch sad films or funny films depending on the feeling we want over what the film is
the hardest part of the gaslighting dialogue, being a NT partner to a high functioning autist, is when I do my best to communicate, and have for many years, tried to find a way to just tell him about me, and he accuses me of gaslighting etc, when it doesn't even make sense to. I think maybe just to get out of talking about our relationship, because it's so stressful? What do you think? It's so damaging to get accused of things that are almost ludicrously not applicable. If I didn't know he has ASD, I'd never be able to carry on.
Do some research and see if their claims actually apply. If they don't, find a good reliable source that you can reference. If their intentions are good, they might be misapplying or misusing the term. They probably want to be right about the terms they use so by referring to a reputable source, you're showing a dedication to facts.
More importantly, ask. Ask why they call your behavior gaslighting. Explore what they're trying to convey. Don't assume you know why they're saying what they say. Say "I don't understand, explain that to me."
Maybe they can't put their ideas into words right away. Give them time to walk away and think about it. If they express their ideas in writing, write letters to each other.
He may be thinking the same thing about you and how hard it is to communicate with you and how ridiculous you are being. Honestly, as an autistic woman, I find it easier to befriend and date neurodivergent people because we can communicate better than neurotypicals. Neurotypicals often expect us to read minds which I think is impractical. So I stick with people with ADHD and/or autism. It’s been much easier.
You try to tell him about you and he accuses you of gaslighting? That sounds so disjointed I don't know what to make of it. Can you give an example, as in can you repeat roughly the actual dialogue of one of your conversations?
If you are truly only “telling him about yourself”, it is impossible to be gaslighting someone. If there are statements in your communication about them and they and what they are or are not doing then there leaves A LOT of room for gaslighting to be a potential reality. If you’re telling someone “i am xyz” and they’re like “you’re gaslighting me” - that just doesn’t make sense. Maybe get specific about what it is you want to explain to him so dearly, and get some coaching on how best to deliver it. 🤷🏽♀️
@felixoupopote It does make sense, for example she says "I feel hurt about this..." and he replies, "You can't feel hurt about that; there's nothing to be hurt about!" "You have no right to feel hurt!" -- That's exactly what gaslighting is.
So insightful ❤❤❤
People acting like they understand and then proceed to tell me to act normal is getting to me. I've never had a girlfriend, can't find a woman who would want me. I see no future where I'm happy.
😊😊😊😊
Thank You Both & All❤️🤍💙
It’s weird to me that Dbuds seems to include HSP, hypersensitivity disorder, and ADHD (even specifies for children and adults separately) in their marketing, but there’s not any mention of autism or ASD at all on any of the marketing on their site.
Very important topic!!!
Thank you both so much.I can relate to a lot and it has helped clear a lot of confusion.❤
Glad it was helpful! 😁
❤️
OMG This so sounds like me! I'm 50 and my life has always been quite dysfunctiomnal to the point where I am unemployed and feel unemployable. I don't have a formal diagnposios and I wouldn't know how to go about getting diagnsed but It deffinatly would help if I had some support. How does one get a diagnosis in the uk?
😂at crafting a mutual agreement. I know what you mean but mighttttt I offer the language of : able to constantly initiate direct communication and adapt/create compromise between two multi faceted individuals. Two people dedicated to creating a Symbiosis. Lol idk I tried 😂
❤❤❤
Everyone around me, talking to me and telling me that they're feeling fine, when I know for fact that they are lying.
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Parentd watch your kids "friends "
I'm confused how a person who didn't talk until 8 can be aspergers? What are the new criteria for asperger where it is still employed? That term is gone here but a huge agenda putting in my mouth that i am and constantly claim i am "Asperger" (agenda=never had and never will need any pause from brutality/eradication)
but totally false! My parents tried and failed to get me reassigned to that elite class but i had no language before 2 and only echolalia atabout 6-9. I may have allowed them to label me while in process but never since 3Decades!. MandelaEffect is all i can comeupwith.
🎉🎉🎉🎉
I had no idea that people treating people with Autism like they are babies. Omg how offensive. Grrrrr!
It's infuriating! Well, to be fair, as an able-bodied, very athletic autistic person with a university degree I don't get treated like a toddler, not like a baby.
In old age it is also ignorant, never experienced any life nor put effort and most often, constant liar,
Among all manner of confabulation to imbue their reality into any autistic person. Indirect, pc brutality.
unfortunately
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❤
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