Earth Talk: Science and Spiritual Practices - Dr Rupert Sheldrake
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2014
- In this lecture at Schumacher College, Rupert Sheldrake shows how the "scientific worldview" is moribund; the sciences are being constricted by assumptions that have hardened into dogmas. But science itself is now transcending the materialist philosophy, and pointing toward a new sense of a living world. The cosmos is no longer like a machine running down; it is more like a developing organism with an inherent memory, and so is our planet, Gaia. These new paradigm shifts in the sciences shed a new light on spiritual practices like pilgrimage, ritual, prayer and meditation.
Rupert Sheldrake, Ph.D. is a biologist and author of more than 80 scientific papers and 10 books, including The Science Delusion. He was a Fellow of Clare College, Cambridge University, a Research Fellow of the Royal Society, Principal Plant Physiologist at ICRISAT (the International Crops Research Institute for the Semi-Arid Tropics) in Hyderabad, India, and from 2005-2010 the Director of the Perrott-Warrick Project, funded from Trinity College, Cambridge. While in India, he spent two years living in the ashram of Fr Bede Griffiths, and has given workshops on science and spirituality with Matthew Fox and Brother David Steindl-Rast. He is a Fellow of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, Petaluma, California, and a visiting professor at the Graduate Institute in Connecticut. His web site is www.sheldrake.org
Only recently come across Rupert Sheldrake and must say I'm mildly fascinated by his presence, soothing articulate expression, scholarship persuasiveness and gentleness.
To me he speaks from his heart and consciousness bereft of hubris and wholly humble. I've been a secularist hardliner for most of my life however after encountering Rupert and listening to his take on reality I must admit to having some pause of my long held views.
***** Hi Francis - thanks for your comment. I have indeed since listened to a number of Rupert's presentations and interviews and my initial impressions of him remain relatively unchanged although I have gone from being 'mildly fascinated' to seriously interested.
I am neither a mathematician, scientist or philosopher though have been an unenrolled student of these disciplines approaching 7 decades.
I have in my studies reached the interim conclusion that as a species in our current development we presently do not have the mental or intellectual capacity to unravel the innumerable mysteries that confront us though we have and continue to give it our best shot and hopefully generations to come will discover and uncover some answers :)
+Tony Gadaleta Hi, Tony G.
I suspect that you might be just a 'teensy' bit more accepting of the possibilities of ideas and explanations than some who have posted in this discussion - no names, not pack drill - and for that I congratulate you
I once came a cross a very 'scientific' question regarding an 'open mind':
"An open mind - is that holes in the head?"
Well, how else is information going to get into said head? Trouble being that in some cases it just passes right on through 'cos there's noting in the middle of all the 'holes' to stop it. I doubt you are one of these cases.
I also think that you are right in saying that we don't yet have the capacity to unravel all the mysteries that we see around us. I further think that those who choose to deny the 'possibility' of something existing simply 'cos it hasn't yet been 'proved' are not the sort of people who are likely to discover many of these future answers.
Just my 0.02.
You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.
+Tony Gadaleta You might like to read The Autobiography of a Yogi, Paramhansa Yogananda. Kriyananda wrote books about his experiences with Yogananda that are interesting.
mildly?
I had a dog.....just a rescued mutt.....who knew days in advance that I was going away. I did everything in my power - only getting things ready when my partner had taken her for a walk, making sure nothing whatever was different etc, it made no difference. She knew. She'd sit on the doormat for days and as soon as I opened the door she'd sit by the car. She also knew when I was coming home. Very smart dog.
We need more people like Rupert . He is a thorn in the side of the establishment because he though simple observation he looks again at whar we are taught and makes us think about what else there maybe out there to discover
. Many thanks Rupert!
Paul Smith Rupert. " He is a thorn in the side of the establishment "
You couldn't be more wrong. He is totally ignored because he is a crackpot.
deltrontheory Where do you get your ideas from ? Scientists do not " adhere to such assumptions without questioning them ." Rather, everything is questioned, experiments are repeated and so on. Try reading a reputable science journal and look at the correspondence to see the truth of what I say.. How about citing three "unsubstantiated assumptions " which are accepted by scientists. That way you can demonstrate that you are not just talking through your hat.
deltrontheory 1. " Matter is everything" Where did you get this idea from ? Name some scientists who say so. FOr example, mind is not matter per se but an epiphenomenon of matter, i.e., the brain. No brain, no mind. There is abundant evidence to support this view. See, for example, experiments with brain-damaged patients. 2. " Consciousness is produced by the brain " Consider what happens to one's consciousness when one receive a brain-damaging blow to the head. No brain activity, no consciousness. Though there is no genera lly agreed definition of consciousness, there is no disputing the fact that it is brain dependent. If you believe tthe nonsense that it is somehow independent, then the burden is on you to explain how something immaterial interacts with something material.3. Evolution is a fact. We and the other great apes evolved from a common ancestor. There is proof in the fossil record and THERE ARE NO MISSING LINKS. We can also prove that evolution is a fact using genetic sequencing,Your objection to evolutionary theory shows you are uninformed and not worthy of my time explaining anything to you because you will simply reject what does not fit with your preconceived ideas. Bye !
Dr Sheldrake does a great job in explaining what by mainstream science is impossible but which is obviously not. I have experienced this same kind of experience with my dog Corry and my cat Frosty in a story that most would not believe but actually took place. I also believe he is right in saying that the world is on the verge of a great awakening which I hope we realize before we blow ourselves up and or make our home planet uninhabitable. I want to thank Rupert for the work he does and hope more people start to make the connection and we get to see this great awakening in humanity.
I feel like Sheldrake believes that consciousness is beyond what our eyes and human vision can see. It's something we can't see at this moment, even with a microscope
I have followed Dr Sheldrake for some years now and concur with his hypothesis on Morphic Resonance, a truly mind-liberating exploration of many themes, both within, and bordering, science. Rupert possesses a great gift for moving one's thinking beyond the monochrome world of scientific patriarchy.
Puke. His hypothesis is new age verbiage. Morphic resonance is claimed to be a verifiable phenomenon yet strangely fails time and gain. Science is science and is neither patriarchal nor matriarchal. It is genderless because it seeks to explain the natural universes which when I last looked is neither male nor female. Sure there is still a gender differences and perhaps also in language but you and Sheldrake (male) make no headway in progressing science nor any gender issues. Is is true women tend to be more superstitious for whatever reason?
Basically if you have something better then science in understanding the Universe then away you go and if it's good I'll use what you have got, but you haven't, just some brain fried person in Sheldrake.
As for monochrome! My goodness have you never seen the beauty of our Universe as brought to us by science?
TEST
Give us just one new verifiable thing that Sheldrake has produced that has added to our scientific knowledge?
Bet you can't.
Bealtaine,i agrea totally with you ,Patric,patriachy is left brain thinking ,His-story,linear time,dogma,rationality,waking reality,science,right brain thinking is feminine,Matriachy,eternity,cycles of time,ritual,magic,altered states,art. This age is patriachal its unbalanced thats whey we have so many wars you cant be the only ones to decide our future,youl kill us all
fazz523 Sorry but you are writing new age woo woo. Men and Women are a lot more similar than you think. The difference between individuals is even greater.
I love Rupert!
I do too! He's so amazing!
+stvbrsn He's a brilliant researcher who correctly understands the philosophy-of-science and philosophy-of-mind issues that are related to his work.
Sheldrake is a Theosophist at heart.
A brilliant man. I love his book... including its very irreverent title which the American publisher didn't have the guts to use.
Ben, I think Rupert has put it the other way round, it was his UK publisher that pressured him to use "The Science Delusion" in reference to Dawkins book "The God Delusion". But actually "Science Set Free" is a more accurate description of what the book is about, it isn't anti science it is pro science but removing some unquestioned dogmas from it.
Keri Ford Is that so? Alright, well I do agree with you about how the book is not anti-science and so "Science Set Free" is a more accurate title, however the trickster in me can't resist preferring the irreverence and parody of "The Science Delusion".
Yeah, it is kind of cool, Richard Dawkins is kind of in your face and I kind of like the "and back at you" attitude of the Science delusion title.
Unfortunately the people in the United States are thin-skinned and get easily offended. Political correctness is rampant and so is ignorance and stupidity. So to appease a stupid, ignorant and thin-skinned brain-washed populace in the United States you have to change the title from "the Science Delusion" to "Science Set Free." In the UK unlike the US, people are less offended by truth. In the United States, fluff triumphs substance giving rise to a materialistic and arrogant culture.
Poornima Wagh Bingo!
I saw him in one of lectures with J. Krishnamurti and physict David Bohm on the nature of mind . Guys you should see that lecture also.. when he was quiet young ...)
I like this lecture, He asks more questions than gives answers and that is always a healthy approach. In the same way that Dawkins cautions against the 'god of the gaps', being that 'if we don't understand it then it must be god', The same should apply to science being 'if we don't understand it or cant record and measure it, that it doesn't exist. The spiritual and scientific horizon is always moving towards us and we navigate as we go.
Marc Itzler If something can't be recorded or measured, then how do we distinguish it from something that doesn't exist? If something can't be recorded or measured, then it must take its place among all similar ideas, like pixies and fairies. There is no evidence to back up the claims he makes, and not for want of research.... telepathy has been researched to death, and there is simply not a shred of evidence for it.
He shows clear evidence, and then you decide it does not exist because you say so, citing nebulous research. You are in denial.
If read his book "The Science Delusion" or watch one of the videos of his lectures on the book, you will see him demolish materialism as a delusional fantasy. Materialsim should never have been conflated with the scientific method. That was an artificial imposed connection.
The god of the gaps argument is total rubbish. The real issue is the materialist claim of some contrived abstract idea of the "natural", as if things occur without having been used and sustained by god in all cases. Materialist pretend that when it can be mearured and understood, a process or thing has nothing to do with God. That is total rubbish. All we are actually doing with the scientific method is understanding God's creation and how he set it up to operate.
There is no such thing as "natural". It is a contrived concept intended to specifically deny God. It is a complete delusional fantasy. There are no gaps. It is all God.
What a breath of fresh air this fellow is. Give me this guy over Hawkins, Dawkins and the Boy Wonder any day.
great talk of him :)
terence and him are rly great to listen to and to in terence words : "dissolve boundaries" :)
Absolutely The TRUTH.. Well worth watching. Thank you for this. )
Rupert Sheldrake is a groundbreaking thinker. One of those who will move us forward not only intellectually...as a sidenote: I am worried about his health...I hope my intuition is wrong about this...he is a treasure.
I agree, he is amazingly ingenious and I'm no scientist but I think he is discovering some profound truths in which the established scientific sector will never discover because they're locked into their 'box'.
J Luvsu name one?
Wise words . We need more like Rupert!
Paul Smith " We need more like Rupert " We have them ; they are known as the scientifically illiterate.
For those seeking a 'Unified Field Theory' or 'Theory of Everything', I think this the is the path that will lead us there. I first heard of Mr. Mandrake watching "The Thunderbolts Project" videos. They're great! People need to see these.
Wonderful please continue.
Stimulating the mind is what makes us interesting
Chris
good show!
*Rupert Sheldrake - highly literate and convincing* his terminology and views add into other views and are not particularly eccentric, as far as I can see... Builds an excellent bridge between how many people think and the 'outer' intellectual world, which needs to be a lot more flexible, as he says or implies. The key question needs to be: to allow the universe to have a meaning for us.... That way, science becomes spiritualized.
Extremely erudite, love this gentleman!
The guy is a genius.
One guys genius is another guys nut job!
knowledge food for the brain . love it,ive always been one of those people that could sense what a person was feeling at the time just walking past them, feeling and emotions are a bit confusing when your young but i felt them ,i found it confusing then but now i understand it i dont take it personally.
What an intelligent bloke.
I have not completely discredited it. Further experimentation and inquiry is needed to confirm or deny it;
I remember when I was in the 6th grade. It was a normal day and it was towards the end of the day of school. We were finishing up a math exercise and all of a sudden I heard a bunch of puppies crying in my head, as if they were in danger. I really didn't think much of it but as I arrived home my brother had told me that all the puppies were killed by the mother. Mind you i was responsible of taking care of the dogs so I developed a bond with the mother for years. I found it to be strange that I heard these puppies cry and to later found them dead.
If you have any such thoughts which are usually typical thoughts anyone has at any one time or another, then depending on what the thoughts were they will eventually come to fruition simply by the passage of time. Hence eventually you will hear about a female dog killing her puppies unless you think this has never happened before. Or perhaps you had thoughts about a tsunami or an earthquake or thinking someone was going to call you on the telephone. Your fault is the connection between a thought and an event.
Think about it
Perfect example of what Rupert discovered between animals and their owners, or people who are close to them.
Great lecture
Expanding what he was saying about chanting mantra's, it gives an interesting new perspective on how musicians and singers, choirs, ect. work together. How tribute/cover artists may be resonating with the original artist, how art we create connects us and allows us to resonate with those who experience it. This world is endless connections.
That might explain the effect that 432hz music has on the musicians who try it out! It could be that it is the old more natural frequency than the 440hz which is used today.
I had *exactly* the same thoughts after I watched this, Jackbkwiq! Imagine, the resonance of connecting to the essence of the music of JS Bach for example, where so so many people over the past couple of centuries have been spiritually moved by it. Musical morphic resonance, I call it! I would also argue that that is why playing old music with authentic instruments from that period can have a more resonant effect.
Musicians work together by hard work, skill, practice, ability not new age pseudo guff. Being moved spiritually does not imply the supernatural nor your crap like morphic resonance.
Patrick O'Sullivan
Salutations, You obviously missed Mozart and John Coltrane ETC !
No love them both
Love to you..Respectfully, Lyn O
Whether or not you agree with his Ideas, which I don't, since I think some VR models can easily encompass/replace his morphic fields .........but as far as recognizing dogma in science, being open minded, thinking outside the box, challenging consensus & not bowing to political correctness etc.......Rupert is an interesting Cat indeed !
Rupert, one usually hears them say only that they have been "born again", without first having actually died. Enjoyed your seminar. Very insightful indeed. Thank you.
2 days before my grandparents, dad and brother died, each time my dog would howl throughout the night/nights. He only howled then. The grandparents lived in different continents, my father was in hospital and my brother was a freak occurance. He did this on 4 occasions and never howled otherwise. So we knew that by the third and fourth time that something would happen and it did.
I believe this number is much higher. I worked as a dog groomer for at least ten years, and heard about these stories all the time from the team in the vets where I worked and from other people too. Besides, I have had pets (dogs, cats, birds,) since very young, and I could notice all this instint, or connection, or mental energetic field myself.
The dog video he showed was so cool....hahaha...love things like that. My dog knows when I am coming home, but he does not get up and look out the window. He is just relaxed about it. He is relaxed about everything.
Thank God for Dr. Rupert Sheldrake!
7:00
I love this guy, he is so spot on. My cats, seen in the avatar, know when we are moving. They TOTALLY understand me when I say, "C'mon, its time to move to ---". Don't tell me they don't know, of course they do.
wonderful
Beautiful
I have a 6” todger but I can’t get into dartington 😏
3:28 - Ok, I am generally a big Sheldrake supporter, but this bit sounds wrong to me. Not the general idea that our minds extend beyond our body; I think that's quite reasonable. But to phrase it like this - the idea that when we look at something our mind somehow touches it - doesn't work for me. It is well established that vision works by virtue of photons bouncing off of the object and being absorbed inside our eyes. We know how that link works already - nothing beyond that is necessary. What if we are looking at something on a television screen? Would our mind be touching the object still? Or touching the TV screen? Or what exactly? We have a complete model for how photons bounce from the object to the TV camera, how electricity and EM waves carry that information to the TV receiver, and how new photons are emitted that go to our eyes. There's nothing missing in this picture.
That said, I do feel strongly that our minds exceed our brains and extend beyond them in some fashion. So it's really just this particular example that bothers me. I think that the sense of being stared out would operate in some different way - I do think that our minds may be connected in some fashion and it could work via that.
He had a very, very wise teacher of understanding the mind.
I feel a great likeness of this theory with that of Sarkar's Microvita.
I think Rupert's idea on baptism is a huge stretch. He has very little evidence to support his proposition.
Very interesting.........
Schopenhauer wrote of this sort of thing years ago. Great stuff by RS. Scientists are correct as far as their discipline goes, but as to the innner nature of things, it is not sufficient.
Inner nature? What are you talking about?
Meh Huh? What? Who? When?
If you can't explain what you mean (probably because you have no idea), maybe you could give an example? Give me an example of this 'inner nature' that science can't explain?
When you give me an explanation of an 'inner nature' science can explain.
Listen, you are clearly not the sharpest tool in the box (hence your admiration of Sheldrake) so I do wonder why I'm bothering. But, at the risk of going around in more circles; what are you referring to when you talk about inner nature? Are you talking about the human psyche? My suspicion is that you do not have a clear definition.
My dog always knows when the flea treatment is coming ,It is great fun,he picks up my intentions without doubt.
I've been intriqued by Dr. Sheldrake and am inspired and informed by much of what he has to say, but regardless of my esteem for the messenger, I will respectfully offer my observation in conflict the part of the message begining at time stamp 48.00: Seems to me there are significant differences in the dynamic of rituals affirming a members identity with the group "in the present", as compared to "imagined" feeling of connectivity to members of the past. If simply "imagining" a thing to be true makes it true, such as imagining I'm connecting with deceased members of my group, then why would I need to attend a ritual at all? Couldn't I also simply "feelingly imagine" it to be true, and so then receive the bennefit to my consciousness as though I had been there (at the ritual), as has been suggested by Nevilie Goddard? If the answere is YES, then I agree with a conscious connection with past architypes (as I think that is what he is suggesting), but if the answer is NO, I disagree with the idea that attending a ritual can connect one with the past.
I saw .... and in the in end .... I see nothing impacting ....!!... Intentions , telepathy all Ok .... but for what ? ... If one is not aware of his daily day to day life... making a mess of it by himself never realizes his own limits and bondage ...can anything be useful ? ... Introspection is really missing in yours talk... and on one hand you are doing experiments and on other telling people to go with religion, books and never telling them, all religions came from humans .... and you, yourself came from the supreme creator.... so better use your energy to go into yourself.
Everyone gets interested in supernatural, phenomenas , magic and bla bla.... but at the end for what ? Mind never blooms without understanding of the person himself. Guys science has already prooven the parallel universes phenomenon and the physics in each dimesnions is totally different. Brain has the capability to raise its consiousness to many levels, but the level never comes to end. It's when one sees the limits of Brain very clearly, then only truth starts unfolding.
Yes intention. True story ~~> many decades ago I was instructed on dozing by a master dozer (Water Witcher).
I could hide things and he found them quickly using brass welding rods crossing. Most important thing according to my old Indian friend was INTENTION concentrating of mind on the object be it water, keys, underground pipes whatever but directing your outwardly focused mind on object sought is key. Most dozers claim they can re-direct water by dozing, when finding dead animals the rods move out instead of crossing!
I was raised in Texas in a Baptist church and I was baptized as a kid by my own choice lol and I've also had a near death experience that happened before that and have done psychedelics in the much more recent past. As far as I remember I was not uncomfortable nor did I feel changed when I was baptized but it was after my near death experience which was typical except for I was very young and when I've done psychedelics, although I've not done DMT, I had profound experiences. I can say psychedelics are much closer to a near death experience than being baptized unless of course you're being properly drowned. That said I don't want to discount any experiences, I'm just saying for me as far as consciousness shifting nothing beats a near death experience but psychedelics are not nearly as dangerous and they help you see the things religions use symbols to represent.
My 7-year atheist experience in my twenties ended as I read the Sermon on the Mount on lysergic acid. I was amazed as those listening to him were amazed. I didn't know who or what "God" was but I knew that Jesus knew and I became a seeker. Now my concept of God comes from Paramhansa Yogananda and the sleeping Edgar Cayce. The Source we came from and are returning to, like the Prodigal Son.
they smell our intentions.and WE do the same ..it is a sensation of anticipation..that makes us put another plate on the table...
Latter Day Saints (Mormons) also baptize by immersion. In fact, I'd think Dr. Sheldrake would be familiar with Joseph Smith's writings about spirit matter regardless of his thoughts about the veracity of Smith's claims. Interesting stuff.
When you want to remember a something like, say, a phone number, how do you do it? How do you instruct your brain where to go find it? What do you actually do? You just give a blank look, and in a few moments you have the number. I really can't take the credit for "remembering" that number. What i know is that it just comes. From where? I think it is not different from searching in Google. I just define my search, and click a button. How Google does it is beyond me.
Perhaps it has something to do with Rupert's Morphic Resonance?
So easy to like this person...his public lecturing persona anyway, but I think he is probably a very fine gentlemen person to person as well.
What if you die before you die?
haha, hilarious. though creepy.
Two stories wow that sounds real scientific
It's obvious the dog used telergy to infleunce the owner to return at a "Random" time!
Nice, specially on telepaty (dogs, but also humans) and memory of species, or joking on death and ressurection at Jordan river, but some limitations, like the one that AUM has no meaning, it just makes you enter in ressonance with others chanting... That is a somewhat superficial vision or understanding, not only of mantras but specially of Aum, as thousands of pages have been writen on it. Later, Rupert speaks about the ressonance, also with others who have chanted it, but there is no mention of the energies, or states of mind or beings represented or invoked. Surely, this talk is just a presentation of the course that will happen in the other day...
Yes, yore absolutely correct!!! That pheno men of people having a sense of "Being Looked at " does include "intentions". For example, animals are not what they appear to be..Your research has been invaluable..!! I did much the same thing but with regard to "good and bad intention" within a cats spurious mind. :) As I am sure you know,,,Cats do not like to be "picked up". I share your no sense of humour on this matter. At any rate.. Its just that an "intention" of placing a cat in a random suitcase correlates with "anticipation" of being picked up. You might like to add this to your extensive research base. I look forward to hearing more about this very important subject matter. Yours Respectfully, Lynette Cuttriss AKA Animals Keep Accounts.
spooky action at a distance: why not? It's not just the quantum world ...
Sheldrake needs to study, and to experiment with, the phenomenon of bilocation. This is mind extension on steroids. It is considerably more intense than clairvoyance or "remote viewing." It is nothing less than a person being physically in two places at the same time, the bilocation side actually interacting with people who believe this entity to be just the normal comprehensive person. I think that this phenomenon might be commonplace. If you spontaneously bilocate you are not aware of the incident unless you receive firsthand feedback from a person or persons who interacted with you at a time and place for which you have no conscious memory, but rather you are quite sure that you were doing such-and-such at Point A when the feedback assures you that, no, you were at Point B at that time. (I've had four such feedbacks, two of them from police officers.) I believe a bilocation is a reaction of one's survival instinct when one decides to travel to a particular place in the near future, and a deep level of mind wants to know if the trip will be safe. If the probe turns up something that one doesn't want to experience, we get that gut feeling and a spike in anxiety levels. We're being warned to change our travel plans.
With regard to lightning Rupert is significantly uninformed. Height above terrain is not the operative principle for precipitating electrical discharge. It is misleading to perpetuate this myth handed down from a formerly less informed public. It is also disingenuous to display only photos of strikes to tall structures while excluding those that don't. It is well established that electric currents follow the path of least resistance, and tall structures become focal points of discharge because of their ability to conduct the current flow more easily than the immediate surroundings, but at times it will happen otherwise. One should observe that the Washington monument was struck 2/3 up from the ground, not at the peak, and in one photo there were leaders from the same strike connecting to objects of lesser height. While I can appreciate Rupert's research and investigation (so many people never bother) his use of poor analogies not directly applicable to the case is quite common in scientific circles.
does anyone else see a blue tint like a faint aura around his head or is it just me?!
this guy has america mixed up with the us uk federal reserve corporation .
"The mind extends beyond the brain via fields..."
By "The mind extends beyond the brain via fields", he propbably means the morphic fields.
Jahanshah Rashidian Has he detected these 'morphic fields'? Has anyone else? Has he even given the vaguest hint as to how this idea is meant to be tested?
Jeremy Watts go to a soccer game in africa or so. amerika or even one of the more civilized countries, say england...a smaller field...where the crowd of the well behaved sports enthusiasts cannot fit into the stadium? then stay way back from the fence ,don't be peepin' at the fence. then simply observe the anthropoMORPHS and how they behave. that is the field he refers to!
john jaekyll Oh ok.. so, group conformity has nothing to do with their behaviour? Group behaviour cannot be explained by psychology? I see... of course, what other explanation can one reach for than an unfalsifiable, undetectable 'morphic field'... utter genius...
Jahanshah Rashidian And the evidence for morphic fields is ?????
The heretical hero
Hahahaha! Did anyone notice the dog look up for a second when it sensed it was being observed! ( about 14:04,,,). What if we extended our thinking out of the box to recognizing the possibility of animals being given a 7th sense. Gods Code. Animals will use this for survival whereas humans would undoubtedly find a way to use it for harm.