Compare: Rocket Appartamento, Bezzera BZ10, 969.Coffee Elba 3
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
- A comparison between three heat exchanger, non-PID home espresso machines. We'll cover differences in features, aesthetics, and performance, with detailed testing results including machine heat-up time and milk steaming abilities.
*A quick note on the Elba 3: if brewing into taller cups without the drip tray attached, you'll need to put something beneath the solenoid valve to prevent splashing.
Rocket Espresso Apartamento Serie Nera: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
Bezzera BZ10: www.wholelattelove.com/collec...
969.Coffee Elba 3: www.wholelattelove.com/produc...
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This is the best "machine comparison" format I've seen. Easy to understand columns at a glance. Clear and concise. Please keep this up.
Hi KE, Thanks for the comment. We also have a nice compare feature at wholelattelove.com. You can select up to 5 similar machines and get a side by side spec comparison with current pricing for all products. Looks like this for 3 machines in this video: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=MTU0NTk3OTkyMDQ0MywxNTQ1OTI2MTQ4MTU1LDE1NDU5OTMyODk3ODc
Actually a very concise and informative video. You covered a lot of information and I really like this format for comparisons.
Great Job.
Hi Bert, thanks for the feedback! There are more comparison videos on the way, and I'm planning to follow this format when I can.
AJ
Personally which brand do you recommend 😉?
The best video I've seen on the Rocket Espresso line!! Thanks so much!!
You are so welcome! And thank you for the comment.
Fantastic video AJ, as usual. Got the BZ-10, couldn't be happier and your video played a large role. One precision on the information tho. In the BZ-10, the steam wand has a rubber elbow for repositioning as you point out, but is no burn, as the steam is conducted by a latex hose within the wand. It gets warm to the touch, but not burning hot. Cheers!
You're completely right, I missed that and made a mistake in the video. Thanks for letting me know and I'm glad you're loving your BZ10!
AJ
That was an excellent review. Side by side made it incredibly easy to make an assessment. I'd like to see more of these.
More like this on the channel and more side by sides to come!
Very detailed comparison 👍
Thank you for watching and commenting!
AJ
Very helpful, thanks!
Hi Jordan, You're welcome - glad it was helpful!
Been using a Bezzera BZ10 for about 6 months now. It has been a fantastic experience at its pricepoint. Fast heat up time, great espresso quality - as long as you stick to something more developed, and great steam performance.
Hi Ming, great to hear you're enjoying your BZ10! It's certainly a high-quality machine for the price and the steaming capabilities are excellent.
AJ
Love my bezzera bz10! Hoping to get bb005 grinder later this year!!
Why is it only good for more developed roasts?
Excellent review! Everything Kito Espresso said .. 10/10
Hi TMB, Thanks for the comment!
great video. thanks!
You’re welcome and thank you for the comment!
Going for the BZ10 best value for the money as well its one of the oldest companies in Italy meaning they have plenty of experience and they are reliable.
Hi Roland, Thanks a whole latte for the comment sharing your opinion!
Great video thanks for the insight :)
Glad it was helpful!
Very informative. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent video.
Hey GIV-X, thank you!
AJ
Nice video!
Hi Endless Ocean, thank you!
AJ
Excellent presentation
Hi Dash Man, thank you!
AJ
Great Timing AJ with the video as I have been comparing the Elba,BZ10 and the new BZ13 but with little info on the BZ13 Im leaning with the Elba as my next purchase as it will fit best on my counter top. How are the reliability comparisons between the Elba & BZ10?
Hi Anthony, if your counter space is limited, the Elba is a good choice since you can remove the drip tray for storage. The E61 is also more of an industry standard, so from a servicing standpoint, you'll likely be able to find more replacement or upgradable parts for that. There is no hot water spout so that's a negative in my opinion since I drink a lot of americanos, but you can still pull hot water from the group.
To me, the PID on the BZ13 levels it up above the BZ10. Check out this full feature review video on the two new BZ13 models for more info: ruclips.net/video/afQSBLNTveI/видео.html
AJ
best comparison ever seen
Wow, thank you Turan!
AJ
Realy great video ! I have a question, in your opinion which is better, bz10 or mara x from lelit ? Thank you
Hi Budoiu, I've never used the Mara X, so in my completely biased opinion, the BZ10!
AJ
I'm ready to upgrade from a breville express (with the small diameter portafilter). I've noticed that almost all machines with e61 groups have the steaming wand on the left hand side and I am wondering if it's the nature of the design or just convention?
The spot I have in my kitchen is in a nook which is on the corner of an L shaped island, and is as such offset to the left of my body. This makes a right hand side positioned steam wand (as it is on the breville) a greater convenience. Can you identify any machines which fit the bill? A "left handed" machine, if you will.
Good question. I never really thought about it, but pretty much all E61/prosumer machines I've seen have the steam wand on the left side, and hot water tap on the right (if they have one). Must just be standard convention. Conversely, most entry-level machines have it on the right (Brevilles, Gaggia Classic Pro, Bezzera Hobby, Rancilio Silvia). The only exceptions I could find are the ECM Casa V and the new Silvia Pro, which are both on the right. Silvia Pro isn't in stock yet, but we have a demo unit here that we'll be making a video on soon.
AJ
Can you put a flow control and group head guage/manometer on the E61 brew head on the Appartamento?
We have tested the flow control on Rocket Espresso E61 groups and it works just fine!
I am looking to move up from an old Krups espresso appliance I inherited from my mother to a more serious machine. Rather than move into a better entry level machine (Gaggia Classic Pro or Bezzera Hobby), I figured I should move up to a heat exchanger machine since I make more lattes than anything else. These machines are three that I am considering. Another is the Bezzera BZ13. I am trying to figure out its differences to the BZ10. It adds PID temperature regulation and a more elegant push button control to trigger the brew cycle. The BZ13 feature loss only seems to be the steam pressure gauge, yet it is $70 cheaper.
I guess I didn't clearly state a question. Do you have any factors that would lead you to pick either the BZ10 or the BZ13 over the other?
Hi Matthew, good question. The differences largely come down to aesthetics. The BZ10 has more of a traditional look with the BZ group, while the BZ13 has more of a "commercial" look, to go along with it's NSF and ETL certification (not to say it's a commercial machine). The group on the BZ10 has more thermal mass which could help temperature stability, but like you mentioned, the BZ13 has a PID, so that should offset any temperature issues. In my personal opinion, I'd pick the BZ10 for looks or the BZ13 for features/performance, but it's close.
AJ
Hi AJ, I began my research into a better esppresso machine with the BZ10. Now I'm looking at the Profitec Pro 500. I realise it isn't a comparison given the latter is a step up and has additional features like PID. However, what are the differences with maintaining either of them. Are the e61 group heads more difficult and expensive to look after versus the Bezzera's electrically heated head? Appreciate it, Craig
Hi Craig, the E61 is more of an industry standard and is really easy to maintain, with lots of documentation on it. The BZ independently heated group is exclusive to BZ and may be harder to find support or replacement parts if an issue did arise. The BZ will also heat up faster, but the E61 will likely give greater temperature stability. The BZ10 is a great machine, but the Profitec Pro 500 is in a different class. The PID alone is worth the price difference to me, and Profitec's build quality is unmatched. Hope this helps!
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks AJ.
@@Wholelattelovepage Dont think you will face any problem just view a Video of a gentleman that use the BZ for over 6 years without any problems
Great video! Do you happen to know the exact portafilter size of the BZ10? Wondering if I can use the OCD distribution tool which I think is 58.5mm
Hi SC, Thanks for the comment and question. Bezzera filter baskets will work with 58.5mm distribution/leveler tools like this one: www.wholelattelove.com/products/asso-coffee-the-jack-leveler-dark-wood
FYI most stock 58mm filter baskets run about 58.7mm actual size. One exception I've run into is some stock Rancilio baskets which are under 58.5mm. If thinking about picking up a dist/leveling tool you might consider upgrading from stock to a precision filter basket like these from Baristapro which all work perfectly with 58.5mm tools: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/portafilters-and-filter-baskets?_=pf&pf_v_brand=IMS
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage That's great to know! And yes i've heard that the BZ10 stock filter is also quite a bit smaller so will definitely need an upgrade. Thanks for your help!
Hi WLL… is there a heat exchanger model that still includes a PID? I saw on old review for the BZ07, but that machine doesn’t seem to be available any more.
Hi Julian, Yes there is! Profitec Pro 500 PID is a favorite of mine: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
The P500 is available without the flow controla as well.
Rocket Espresso has the Mozzafiatto and Giotto models that are HX PID machines. Those come in either the Type V versions with vibration pump or "R" version which are plumbable with a rotary pump. See all those and more here: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines?_=pf&pf_v_brand=Rocket%20Espresso&sort=price-descending
In Bezzera the BZ13 is a heat exchanger with PID. The Profitec and Rocket machines above are all E61 group. The BZ13 is not: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/bezzera-bz13-pm
Hope that helps!
I like before watch because i know this video is awesome.
Thanks for the first comment, Shadab Siddiqui!
AJ
I bought the Bezzera BZ-10 and I love her! Two questions if you could possibly find the answer. the first generation of the bz10 had a brass boiler, I am pretty sure and as I have seen in other videos the new version with the aero switches uses a cooper boiler, can you confirm this? The second question has to do with the Elba 3 drip tray feature that is removable, if you remove the drip tray for a long cup , isn't the solenoid valve of the E61 group head going to make a mess on your bench ?Once again a great video, cinematic and very accurate. I think you have the most informative review video in the market.
Hi Dimitrios, yes, the current version has a copper boiler. A 2014 review we did of the BZ10 showed a nickel-plated copper boiler with brass end plates at that time: ruclips.net/video/dR1juoxIYlY/видео.html
You are absolutely correct about the Elba 3 drip tray. I mentioned in the video description and it's on our product page for the machine, but I should have also said it in the video - if removing the tray to brew into larger cups, you'll need to put something under the solenoid valve to catch the discharged water (such as a small cup), or you'll have a bit of a mess to clean up.
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage You are fantastic. I wish we had in Europe such a team giving us knowledge on European coffee machines! Actually this is a very good idea, opening a WLL in Europe! Thank you Sir!
I wish this comparison also included the ecm mechanika v slim
That would be a good inclusion but it certainly a bump up in price.
AJ
Great vid. is it feasible to put shorter legs on the BZ10 and Magica. I love those 2 Bezzera machines but dont like rather long legs. I love the puck style legs on the rocket.
Hi a, Thanks for the comment and question. You could put different legs on either of the Bezzera machines. In fact, the puck style feet of the Appartamento will screw into those Bezzera machines. There is an access cover on the bottom of the Bezzera machines which protrudes a half inch or so so the height of the puck style feet leaves little to no clearance above countertop.
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks a lot. Good to know that I can shorten the height of the magica. One lay question
@@Wholelattelovepage one last question. This may sound stupid but I prefer the more classic look of knobs over the joystick levers. Is that a possibility on the magica as well?
I'm having similarly amazing offers for the Apartamento and the BZ10, and have a hard time choosing.
Is the absence of the brew pressure gauge on the Apartamento an issue? How important is it to be able to see it to make a good shot?
Also, having the group head electrically heated on BZ10 - doesn't it mean that the temp stability there should be better than for a standard E61?
Hi UL, Thanks for the question. Some find comfort having the brew pressure gauge. It can help if one thinks there's an issue with the OPV/expansion valve setting which limits maximum brew pressure. In normal use I pay little attention to the brew pressure gauge if a machine has one.
Hi. I'm looking to upgrade my machine and have my eye on the Appartamento. However, I only have a cheap burr grinder (de longhi KG79). Would the machine work OK paired with this grinder or would I also need to upgrade my grinder?
Hey Kyle, the KG79 is not good for espresso. There are some people who have modded it to allow for finer grind, but it's still a "false burr" grinder and you'd be better suited upgrading it to get the most out of the Appartamento.
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for this. And the rabbit hole begins. Do you have any recommendations on a grinder that would work with the Apartamento that are 'reasonably' priced?
Hi, I’m thinking about buying the bezzera for a small bakery, would you recommend for that type of use this machine?
The BZ10 shown in the video is not certified for commercial use. If the bakery won't be pumping out espresso in high volumes all day, the Bezzera BZ13 would be a better choice as it is ETL-certified: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-bz13-pm
That said, if you'll be constantly using the machine in your shop, you really want to upgrade to a commercial machine, which will cost a lot more but be more more reliable in the long term with the demand put on them by a busy shop: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/commercial-espresso-machines
AJ
How do you brew into tall glass in elba 3 without the 3 way solenoid making a huge mess at the end of the shot?
Hi Tigerjk, thanks for bringing this up. I noted in the video description, but should have also mentioned it in the video - when brewing into taller cups without the drip tray, you'll need to put something under the solenoid valve to catch the splash and avoid a mess (such as a small cup).
AJ
Man, glad u bring it up.. 😁
Is there a machine that has the E61 grouphead , with the BZ10 levers and PID ??
Hi d, Thanks for the question. Here are a couple of machines with E61 group, lever operated valve and PID:
ECM Techanika V Profi PID : www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/ecm-technika-v-profi-pid
ECM Synchronika: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/ecm-synchronika-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Hope that helps!
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the reply , excellent i will check these out in more detail later. Are the ECM machines all single boiler ? As i like the the ECM Classika PID
daisy180709 those machines are heat exchange and dual boiler. Was going to suggest the Classika but does not have lever operated valve. But much lower price
Hai AJ,please answer, which one will make btter espresso? E61 group,or elctical Heated BZ? Thanks
Hi Retno, as you probably know, a ton of factors go into making good espresso - beans, grinder, barista skills, equipment, etc. One of the largest factors is consistency across all variables. The E61 group should have more consistent temperatures with less swings than the electrically-heated BZ group, and therefore in theory could make "better" espresso, once you have all of your other factors dialed in to your liking.
AJ
Hello, how does the Bezzera BZ13 stack up against these three?
Hey Jeandre, I'm a big fan of PIDs, even on HX machines, so I'd probably pick the BZ13 over any of these strictly on function. That said, I don't think it's as nice looking as any of these, and the push-button brewing is less elegant than a brew lever or switch. Here's a full review video on the two BZ13 models: ruclips.net/video/afQSBLNTveI/видео.html
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for the info. The BZ13 has an amazing heat up time of 8 minutes which is a big must for me, are there any other machines with heat ups equivalent or close to the BZ13?
@@jeandrevisser8689 No, the other machines are your standard E61 type grouphead machines which require at least 30-40 minutes to heat-up. Not really too much of a problem if you get one of those wifi plugs. I'd say one of the biggest advantages of the BZ13 is that the grouphead is much easier to clean and maintain
Where would you place the Quick Mill Pathfinder in this group??
The Pathfinder is on par with the Appartamento, but with a better dual pressure gauge and the option of a flow control add-on which is a game changer.
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you so much for the help!
3:48 Doesn’t that mean the water from the solenoid valve will be discharged to your counter top?
Good catch - you would need to put a small cup or something else under the solenoid valve to catch the discharged water. I noted this in the video description, but should have also mentioned it in the video.
AJ
I'd love to have seen a temperature stability measurement with a Scace or somethig similar!
Hi Hoax, funny you should mention that. I actually spent a good chunk of time doing scace testing on all three machines for this video, but it didn't make the cut, mostly because the cooling flush routine is quite different between them. Trying to find consistent testing parameters, I was initially taking readings every 2 minutes after a 15 second flush to see how temps would change over time. With this method, The Appartamento was consistent, but a few degrees too warm (it needed longer flushes). The BZ10 ran consistently too cool (it needed shorter flushes), the Elba 3 got hotter as the time went on (meaning my interval between shots was too long or my flushes were too short). After trying to find a more apples-to-apples way to compare all three machines with the same routine, I realized that the results would only be useful if someone was actually brewing every two minutes, which is unlikely in the real world. back to back drinks may require a shorter (or no) flush, while longer idle times will likely require a longer flush. Long story long, all three machines will be incredibly consistent with a proper routine based on your level of use, but it's hard to test in a real-world-relevant way. A little bit of experimenting on the users' end if the way to go.
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for the reply AJ! Makes sense that it's hard to test if the real world usage scenarios differ from person to person. While testing, did you notice any difference in temperature stability during the shot, f.e. did the BZ10 have more temperature variation during pulling a shot compared to the E61 machines?
Whole Latte Love
AJ.
From previous videos, I had hoped that the the electrically heated BZ with PID would solve the problem of E61 cooling flushes. From what you write, it just seems like you get different problems. Perhaps a good comparison to add to future videos of this type would be “what you need to do before pulling a shot if the machine has been idle”. ... This info would be more important to me than knowing which machine steams milk 3 seconds faster.
@@MrArdytube The BZ10 has an electrically-heated group, but temp is not PID-controlled. That would solve the cooling flush issue , as is the case on the BZ13. Good point about the "what you need to do before pulling a shot if the machine has been idle," I'll certainly keep that in mind for future videos. On the Appartamento specifically, I did include a more detailed process in this review: ruclips.net/video/qpX5s4CbSEI/видео.html
AJ
@Whole Latte Love
What is max height of the cup for the Appartamento coffee machine?
Very nice...thank you. Any chance of comparing an Apprtimento to ECM's PID machine(s)?
Hey messy, We do have video reviews of most ECM models. Their current machines with PID are the single boiler Classika, HX boiler Technika V Profi and dual boiler Synchronika. You can see the full lineup here including videos on machines: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines?_=pf&pf_v_brand=ECM
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you Marc. I was hoping for a direct comparison of the two machines that are very similar in price. The Rocket Appartimento and ECM Classika PID Espresso Machine.
Hello, which one is better between bz10 or elba 3?
Can anyone suggest a better one and the reason why?
Hi CJ, Thanks for the question. If you want E61 group go with the Elba 3 - just be aware no hot water wand on the Elba 3. If you want hot water you'd have to get it from the group. If you don't have to have E61 and want easier hot water dispensing go with the BZ10.
Which one of three get the best crama?
Hi PS, Thanks for the question. Crema is more about the beans and grind than the machine. All 3 machines are equally capable. If you like the crema choose beans known for crema production. Classic Italian style bean blends are easy to work with and are good crema producers. Try Lavazza Super Crema or one of my favorites Maromas Orphea: www.wholelattelove.com/products/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso
Get the grind dialed in right and you will get excellent crema.
Would you recommend the Appartamento or the Rancillio Silvia Pro?
Hi sr, Thanks for the question. I'll be doing a review of the Silva Pro in the next couple of weeks. In answer to your question it depends on what you are looking for in a machine. The Silvia Pro is a smaller volume dual boiler with PID temperature control. The Appartamento uses a heat exchange boiler and no PID. The Silvia Pro should provide more stable and reliable brew temps.
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you sir for your prompt reply. Will look forward to that review. I am from India and am getting the Silvia Pro along with their Rocky grinder for the same price as the Appartamento with their Faustino grinder.
@@Wholelattelovepage have you done this review yet? Exactly the comparison I am in search of!
sehej rana hi there just came across your query.. im also from india considering the option.. what finally helped you make your decision and how is the silvia pro holding up??
Can you make a similar video comparison in between HX machines with PID? Just because of a lack of a PID scare me a bit!
Hey Jefté, this one's from 2018 but still relevant: ruclips.net/video/Rn1S23pGPiQ/видео.html
The differences are that the newer Giotto's come with a shot timer integrated in the machine body, and I'd probably include the BZ13 over the BZ07. Here's a full review video on the two BZ13 models: ruclips.net/video/afQSBLNTveI/видео.html
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage, I love the Bezzera Bz13 look, for that reason, I suggested the video comparison. The look of the machine with rosewood accent is awesome, I will like to have a machine like these in the near future! If you do the video comparison it can be helpful for anybody who wants a new HX machine with PID! This type of content is what attracted me in the past!
What is your espresso machine of choice for a coffee cart?
Hey HF, Depends on the volume you do and your local regulations. I'd recommend you go with a commercial NSF rated machine. If in US/Canada contact us here and we can help asses yoour needs and find you the right machine: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/contact-us
So despite this being a very subjective topic. Would you go rocket or Elba?
Hi Shane. Me personally, Rocket.
AJ
I know Marc and Todd already made a video on tbe Elba 1 and 3 but they also said they would be making individual videos for the Elba machines.
It would be great if we got a video on tbe Elba 3. It's definitely a great option for people with small kitchens.
Hi Ricky, I agree that the Elba 3 is a very good little machine with some unique design elements. I don't think there are any plans for an individual Elba 3 video right now, but that may change at some point. Was there anything specific you wanted to know about it?
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage one thing that isn't on the website listing is the depth measurement without the drip tray. The website listing states the depth measurement is 15.75 inches with the drip tray. A lot of people with the machine often stores the drip tray to the side or on top of the machine when not in use to save space.
If you could provide me with depth measurement without the drip tray, that would be amazing.
Thanks AJ.
The body without the drip tray is about 10" deep. That's the footprint, not including the E61 group. If you include that, it's about 15.5" from the back of the housing to the front of the e61.
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage thank you so much for the detailed response.
I wish you used the bezzera unica in the review :)
Hi Hananta, Here's our video review of the Bezzera Unica: ruclips.net/video/cvwFHWPRMH4/видео.html
Enjoy!
Unica has a PID
Where Marc?
Hi Migz, Marc is still here and still making great videos! We've been growing our video team to keep up with increased product demands, so you'll see a couple fresh faces in newer videos like myself and Austin.
AJ
Where is my boy Marc?!
He's sitting about 20 feet away from me! Keep an eye out for a video from him later today.
AJ
I think you missed the most important question: which coffee machine prepares the most delicious coffee?
Hey Jose, Well, most delicious coffee most likely determined by the beans used and the skill of those using. Use proper technique on any of these machines and they are similarly capable.
Like these machines... there are interesting differences between Marc and AJ. Fortunately, with Marc and AJ we can have both. Unfortunately, with these machines, we will be lucky if we can get one... lol
Haha what a great comment! I don't think there will be any Marc vs. AJ videos in the future, but plenty more machine comparisons!
AJ
Can any of the machines you sell ship or know anyone who can ship them to Europe, Albania?
Hi AD, Currently ship to US an Canada only :(
Bezzera best
similarities + all of them well above $1000. lol but i would pay for them with my eyes closed if i could :)
Hi Carlos, the price tag can certainly be intimidating for some, but it's an investment. Extra up-front cost pays for itself quickly instead of going to Starbucks and spending $4 for a latte every day. That said, there are less expensive options. Check out this video on our favorite premium entry-level home machines: ruclips.net/video/ajvUwRZ524I/видео.html
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage i currently have the breville express 870 but i will in the market very soon. thx
My recommendation is not to pick bz10
The own style bezzera group head is no where near to e61 in terms of brew pressure loss and temperature stability and water distribution is bad(sometimes so hot if you flush for seconds /sometimes low because it's not boiler cycling heating system and the shower is pretty low so you'll need 22grams basket for double shot and the shower heaight is 11.5mm from the gasget if someone wondering.)
Plus the OPV on bz10 NOT made for adjusting and can't be changed less than 10.5-11bar with blind basket(because it would leak and does damage to your inside electronics plus it's dangerous.)
The pressure loss is vary but in my adjusting i find out the dynamic pressure (brew pressure) most of the time 1 or 1.5bar lower than pressure on the static gauge on the machine.
Hi Rayan, yes, as mentioned in the video we don't recommend changing the OPV (and neither does Bezzera or Rocket). I only mention it because it's one of the most common questions we get on every machine. I also agree about the loss between the static gauge and the actual dynamic pressure at the group. We regularly have people concerned about seeing 10.5-11 bar on the gauge and explain that, especially with vibration pump machines, that 11 bar is in a closed pressure system and NOT when you actually get going through properly dialed-in grounds, which should be around 9 bar.
AJ
@@Wholelattelovepage what is the optimal brew pressure as set from Bezzera? mine is reading at 9.5bar which is from the factory
Difference between static and dynamic pressure indication on the BZ10 is because of where it measures. On the BZ10 you see the pressure at the group, whereas on most E61s it measures at the heat exchanger. The group pressure will always decline slightly because you dissolve 20% of the coffee. This causes the flow of water to speed up and lose more pressure on the way from the pump to the coffee bed. This is inherent to espresso making and has nothing to do with the machine, with the BZ10 it just happens to be visible on the pressure gauge.
If you grind finer, you get less pressure loss, if you grind coarser, you lose more pressure.
@@ming6371 what's your machine model
@@degaulle1251 thank you didn't think of that! You're right!
I think non-PID is a bad buy. PID itself costs like a total an extra $50 max. There’s no reason any new machine should not have PID.
Hi MF, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. PID is very useful!
Marc
PIDs on HX machines can be anything from useless to controversial! Well it is not bad to have one, but on the other hand it is pretty difficult to properly install one and more importantly to make use of it because of the nature of the HX boiler. Not a true necessity, at least not as necessary as with a single or double boiler machine.
I don't understand. Why would anybody pay this kind of money for something without a PID!? It makes no sense
Have a look at the Bezzera Magica PID. Similar in price:www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/bezzera-magica-pid-espresso-machine
Marc
The Elba is a trash hx unit. They use a STICKER for the front housing as their badge. Very cheaply made unit overall. Borderline scheme
Yes, the thick plastic badge is attached with adhesive, but this has zero effect on the quality of the espresso. Some aesthetic sacrifices were made to keep prices down for the consumers, but it is certainly not "trash" by any standards.
AJ
Hello AJ and whole latte love, I am looking into getting the Rocket Apartmento to be use at a Farmer's Market onceca week, would this be a good choice ? Also does the Water tank has a direct line to an outsise water source perhaps a 5 gallon water jug pr so ?
Or what machine woould work for this if I get a line waiting for coffee @wholelattelovepage
Hi X, The Appartamento while a decent machine is more suited to low volume use in... you guessed it, an apartment or home. It's a reservoir fed machine so no way to connect to a waterline. Also its temperature is controlled by a pressurestat in a heat exchange boiler. In moderate use brew temps will creep up.
I suggest a PID controlled dual boiler machine with a rotary pump. Dual boiler machines heat brew water and steam separately. PID produces much more consistent temps and rotary pumps can almost always pull water on the plumbed in line from a water jug. You'll likely want a machine that has a drain built into the drip tray. The Bezzara Matrix has all those qualities and a cool look with semi-transparent light up side panels: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-matrix-mn-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
It's also available in a programmable dose model so you can push a button and shot stops automatically: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bezzera-matrix-de-dual-boiler-espresso-machine
Hope that helps!
Thank you very much AJ and Whole Latte Love for the response. I looked into the Bezzera Matrix and watched some of the videos, If the digital PID and software fails would I be able to pull shots and steam milk and all manually? I know technology is unpredictable sometimes compare to a cellular phone network or wifi :). I was also looking into the Rocket R58 but the attachment of the PID software is a bit bulky, again would the Rocket R58 can function manually ?. Also I was looking into a Eureka Zenith for a coffee grinder because is quiet and does a great job with fluffy coffee but would this one work manually as well just in case the digital stops suddenly? @@Wholelattelovepage
@@Xtremeee151 You're most welcome. Very hard to say if certain functions will work if electronics fail - lots of variable involved. I agree with your take on the R58/Cinquantotto control box. If seeking the most reliable dual boiler I highly recommend the ECM Synchronika. Beautiful machine, robust serviceable components, K.I.S.S. German/Italian engineering: www.wholelattelove.com/products/ecm-synchronika-espresso-machine-olive-wood