This episode is so AWESOME!!! Thank you. I could comment on so many things but early on you mentioned that Russell Nelson had spent more time supporting black people not having the priesthood than them having the priesthood. That BLEW my mind and gave me perspective on how grossly limited his views might be. So ironic for a "seer." Love you all! Thanks!
this is a fascinating topic. Kolby's input show a great understanding of the legal process. He adds so much to the discussion. Rebecca and Landon have made this a top-notch podcast. Thanks.
Hello from NE Texas! I'm the one that grew up near McKinney and remember when the McKinney Ward split into McKinney 1st and 2nd wards. And to really put into perspective just how old RMN is, Brigham Young had only been dead 25 years when he was born.
Great video, I love at the 36:35 mark when Rebecca addresses the Scopes Monkey Trial and Inherit The Wind. My mother was in the play at one time. She was Mrs. Brady. For those who don't know. Mrs. Brady's husband is a lawyer and religious zealot who thinks very highly of himself. He loves to talk and loves to be heard. I love that play, and the movie Inherit The Wind is one of my all-time favorites.
I'm only one hour in but let me remind anyone who has forgotten. Dallin Oaks is a company man. Not a man of God. He's the guy who jumped to the podium to announce to the membership that a story made up by Mark Hofmann, murderer and forger, made perfect sense. He will say absolutely anything that furthers the church's interest. ANYTHING. Yep. He's the one who said a white salamander was very similar to an angel. Someone had to make this case to members. This guy will say anything. Talk about egg on the face when the forgery was discovered! He had an omelet for 12 smeared across his mug. There's something seriously off about this guy.
I'm glad someone brought up Hoffman and Oaks. I recently talked to a TBM and they knew nothing about this situation. I suggested they read the book, Salamander to find the real Dallin Oaks.
A good example of a situation where religion and laws clash: I was a nanny in London in the mid 80s. Forgive me if I get details regarding the observance wrong but I remember tv news stories where, for the festival of Eid al-Adha, devout Muslims were practicing the ritual slaughter of live animals in the street in front of their homes. It may have been a small localized group of people in the story - probably not a huge annual problem. Needles to say many cultural differences created issues but health and safety was the important and dictating influence. Not sure when the law was put in place but today the ritual slaughter can only occur in a licensed slaughterhouse.
Good luck with the church of not paying taxes. I'm quaker, and some quakers a while back decided that since their taxes funded war, and our faith bans war, they weren't going to pay their taxes. It didn't work out so well for them. It was okay for a while, but eventually, the IRS came after them, and the back taxes were taken from their paychecks. Thank you for your great videos. I've never been mormon, but as a quaker, we are encouraged to study other religions. I wanted to study momonism, but since they are quite culty, I decided to learn from ex-mormons rather than current mormons. Your channel has given me much insight on the mormon religion, and I must admit that I've been sucked in by this temple building bullshit. Keep up the good work!
The following comes from the Church's statement on Fairview: "In sum, temples are the House of the Lord. Temple design and location are determined by the First Presidency of the Church “under the direction of the Lord.” Their design not only accommodates religious worship but is itself an act of worship. Attempts by government officials to dictate temple location and design would interfere with the Church’s cherished beliefs. That is the very essence of a “substantial burden.” In short, a church never holds the trump card. The municipality always holds it because no matter how sincere or how important the affected religious exercise is, it can be restricted or even prohibited if the municipality has a compelling interest and pursues that interest through the narrowest possible means. A compelling interest is an interest of the “highest order.” It generally requires some “substantial threat to public safety, peace, or order.” In reality, it is not about temples. It is about the First Presidency's revelation taking a higher priority over the town's values, laws, and precedents. For this reason, as an active church member and a US citizen, I cannot support the church's position. The town's people elected the officials to make sure religions are treated equally and to design and enforce laws in "Keeping it Country". The people didn't elect the church to define what it means to have order, safety, or peace. The town's responsibility is to make sure the church is not discriminated in comparison to other religions or secular institutions. chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/mckinneytexastemple.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/RLUIPA-Submission-Statement-Fairview.pdf
@@mormonishpodcast1036 I keep trying to find ways to "get in" to the cast. Before I get bumped again, Just HAVE to say THANK YOU, Kolby. Thank. you. so. very. much. 🐦
In Hollands video at Nelsons bday celebration he talked about Nelson in the past tense and also referred to his presidency as his “administration “. 21:25
That was so hard to listen to the kurt & mcconkie rep. His tone and way of speaking, as well as his manipulation. He talks about how not everyone can go but people can hope with looking up at that inspirational spire. Not acknowledging that many people DON'T want it there and don't want to look at it! What about them. He's super gross.
Exactly. Freedom of religion ends with you. You can believe whatever you want, you can worship however you want in your home. The moment it effects another person, that freedom ends. It's very clear in the Constitution. It's obvious they hate the American Constitution.
Mad skills Kolby! The world gets dark when one realizes just what and how much is expendable for this church. Zero value given to persons, and even doctrine. I wager that the term home teachers was dropped so that ministering members, as well as bishops would be exempt from reporting abuse of any kind to the state. Home Teachers aren’t exempt, but ministers are. They know exactly what they are doing. There is a plan, and no one is safe. Words matter. Blood Oaths matter. It’s despicable. Who needs demons from another world when we have church leaders old, and barely alive, behaving like demons right here now? It’s asinine.
Do you think Nemo is being excommunicated to discredit his position as a faithful member? Would this strengthen the church position on an appeal or future legal action?
I just want if Kolby reads this I'm super excited about you doing a web series. You really are pretty awesome, smart and level headed. Rebecca and Landon, love you both. Really becoming my favorite podcasts in general. I also want to give Landon a lot of credit, he ex military, straight as they come. But he and Rebecca both stand up for lgbt community. We have to have our straight allies and It means alot to me. I am gay and grew up with such judgement and religious trauma that little things mean so much. ❤
Just watched the character Nadine on Larry's Country Diner show she just went to put a sign up on her church, which stated "There ain't no use talking to God when you ain't talking to your neighbour!" Now that's what I call TRUTH! And I'm sure that Jesus would agree, not Joseph's Smiths version of Jesus, obviously!!!!!
Great insight. I've come to similar conclusions. You can be a zealous member, give yourself 100% for your entire life, but if you're ever caught publicly opposing the Living 15, in a way, that could tarnish their reputation - whether benign criticism or outright confrontation - it's treated with equal gravity and a directive from SLC to the local stake president will arrive, usually with a confidential dossier of all you’re behavior, not be shown to the soon to be excommunicated member (unless you’re friends or the Stake Pres has integrity and uses reasonable judgment. But many at that level want to rise up to a GA, so these are tests to determine their ability to fall inline within the hierarchy and most of all test their loyalty to the 15). Yet you can disavow the Book of Mormon, say Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet, or even claim Jesus was just a man, who saw himself as an apocalyptic preacher (which is the historical consensus), and the consequence? You’re left alone with your opinion. It only matters if it's directed publicly at the 15. That is the only sure path to excommunication. (But it looks like Oaks, wants that to change, I say for cult/tribalism sake, make punishment public again, as a deferent and it usually is a catalyst for self-proclaimed spies, aka unofficial policing.) They know they don't truly have priesthood keys, but rather keys to protect the institution. Combined with their "Second Anointing" ritual which claims they "cannot commit sin," (none have seen Jesus, during or after the ritual, so they know they don’t have any divine keys) this gives them a free pass to do whatever they deem necessary to protect the church, at all costs- moral or not. That's why everything and everyone is expendable to them. They only care about the institution, which for them is inseparable from who they are. That’s why they are so sensitive and lacks the ability to be accountable. They church, like cults and MLMs, structure is like a pyramid, the higher you how the less accountability, so when or if you get to the tip top, you have free rein. There is no oversight or accountability. They know it and they all having been brainwashed to live and die by hierarchy, they gain more and more influence and power but still bend the knee to the president because odds will be that they will one day get there and want that unbridled power. No member of the quorum questions the final decision. You read or hear it from time to time by the 15 in their talks. Think Holland and musket talk at Maxwell Institute when he talks about the stationary and the name of the church. Shocking how strict they are with seniority and they all buy their time to be the president. going back to there is no separation of who they are or their value between the institution and themselves. They are have been so indoctrinated, training and practiced as they moved up in rank through callings into the 70’s and ultimately in the 15 for decades. They can’t separate themselves anymore. It's similar to how many Jews see no separation between nationality and religion. This has been the case since 1830. Loyalty to the leader. The church essentially reinvented itself multiple times when forced to move: Palmyra, Kirtland, Nauvoo, and Utah each had distinct versions of Mormonism. This was often because the majority of leaders and members left or were excommunicated after seeing the cracks- The Truth in Joseph Smith's claims and behavior. Joseph Smith himself acknowledged this tendency in D&C 121:39: "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion." Unless Joseph was a complete narcissistic, pedophilic psychopath (which many cult leaders are), I suspect he had Narcissistic and Antisocial Personality Disorders, possibly with pedophilic tendencies and other psychological issues. He fits the stereotypical cult leader profile, which became more apparent as he aged. By Nauvoo, he was wearing his general's uniform daily and essentially acting as judge, jury, and executioner of the city. You had to kiss the ring. You had to be loyal to Joseph at all costs. Think of the endowment rituals back then… even up to the ‘90’s I think, the oath of vengeance (or law of vengeance) “You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children's children unto the third and fourth generation.” Many of the persecutions the early church faced were reactions to the behavior of members and leaders… loyalty to Joseph and his commands. a fact often missing from the official history but well-documented in objective historical accounts. When you consider all of this - from the leaders' self-perception as institutional guardians who cannot sin, to the culture of the church from the beginning, to the natural effects that occur in $265+ billion multinational corporations - it all makes sense. The issue arises when trying to frame it as the only true church of Jesus, which can only be maintained through tribalism, confirmation bias, and cognitive fallacies. The objective data points to a different conclusion, but as Carl Sagan aptly put it: "One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back." (The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark)
I get triggered when you ask others to read. Sunday School did this, and the act makes me remember being asked to read when I didn't want to read and then having to read in front of my friends. Trigger doesn't mean I have a breakdown; it means that I remember something I disliked from my past.
Talking about the extermination order, etc. reminds me of my kids when one comes crying to me that the other one hit them. They don't want to talk about what they did to antagonize the other, or their part in it. 😂 I tell them I need to know the whole story, and that they were both wrong. It's like the one who was hit acts persecuted, just like the church does. It's ridiculous!
I've watched the leadership of this church right back to the time of Joseph Smith. I've watched in disgust about all of they're hiding their own sins from the rest of the world. And yet... their sins are not hidden. It's as if the emperor is foolish enough to believe that he's actually wearing acceptable clothing Which brings me to a point Let the churches senior leadership are acting like a song that I remember from years ago in a Church Musical, called "My Turn on Earth" 🌎 The song was "Follow Me". Who are the First Presidency actually acting like here? Satan's plan for sure 👌🏽 💯%
Tim Ballard - the OUR guy - not M. Russell Ballard. Tim Ballard has multiple lawsuits against him from women that worked for/with him at OUR for sexual assault and harassment for things that happened during his "couple's ruse" scheme during the OUR operations to "rescue" victims of trafficking. He was condemned by the church for his actions several months ago.
MRB was always a loose cannon for the Church's reputation. Do some research about it (Lynn Packer's articles). He was neck deep in the Tim Ballard fiasco when it broke, and passed from the picture shortly after.
He was president of Keystone financial in the 60’s. That was a stock brokerage firm owned by Zions… the church. Keystone AND Ballard were sanctioned by the SEC for falsely misleading investors. Google- M Russell Ballard SEC.
What do active church leaders in the Fairview meeting q & a think about an attorney answering the question about steeple height? I thought the church was run by Jesus, prophets, and apostles not kirton mckonkie. The idea that a steeple helps people look up to heaven is bogus. All the people in Fairview will be thinking how toxic the Mormon church is every time they see that steeple. How does that help bring people to Christ? Why don’t they build it where the zoning allows for such height? Then because of the majestic steeple, people will want to build homes and other residential stuff around it. Sad
9.15.24. Three days ago, I was watching an excellent "mainstream" CHRISTIAN podcast from a theological campus conference in which it was mentioned that there was a current movement to have tax-exempt status for churches revoked. This was very worrisome for this well known organization the REALLY DOES depend heavily on genuine DONATIONS and grants to produce its materials and keep its training facilities in operation. What you are now discussing as having been orchestrated by Oaks is CHILLING. WHAT ANOTHER VERY CLEVER WAY TO GET the GOSPEL preached by Paul to APPEAR to be in alliance with the GRIFT devised by js! Oaks IS cleverer than s***n himself. He would foresee - NOT by prophetic inspiration, but rather, by sheer BUSINESS ACUMEN - that this would AFFECT EVERY RELIGIOUS organization extant. And THIS CONTRIVANCE of federal legislation would have them every one lined up behind the mormin merlin. 😭🤮😭
They have been arguing that they are going to lose their tax exempt status for decades. They have multiple Senators and Congressmen who are temple endowed and they have billions of dollars to throw at maintaining their tax exempt status. I can’t imagine they would ever lose that even if it is deserved.
@@mormonishpodcast1036 Seems to change after I waste time and space protesting, after many tries. And I AM allowed to comment, just not to like. Thanks for your reply. Sorry to have gone overboard today. My equivalent to standing roadside with a cardboard sign way out there in CODY. 😻
129 comment Mormonish acknowledged only 3 folks 😯 i had a story for them think though now maybe i might do it i might say why they're not more interactive If you ask somebody who doesn't respond to very many people 🤔 What's the chance of the responsive Mormonish!!!! Rebecca!!! Landon!!! You're unresponsive!!!!! 🚑
We are so sorry! Both of use work full time jobs and this is the busiest season for Landon who is working 12 hour days! We really appreciate our viewers and try our best to respond! We'll do better! Thanks for watching!
Kolby, do you think that President Oaks' testimony in support of RFRA could be material to a judge's interpretation of the legislative history and text? Doesn't this strongly support the Church's interpretation of RLUIPA as applied to the instant disputes? Like, if RLUIPA was intentionally written to help the LDS Church overcome NIMBY opposition to new temples, then isn't the correct interpretation of the statute that it was intended to help the LDS Church (and other religious minorities) build places of worship despite NIMBY opposition? I am open to correction if I'm missing the mark here.
Typically, legislative history material is only consulted if the text of the law at issue itself is ambiguous. That would be the only occasion to consult it, and it wouldn’t only include consulting Oaks’ statement. Oaks’ statement wasn’t even on RFRA, so it almost certainly wouldn’t apply to interpreting RLUIPA. For what it’s worth, the interpretation you’re attempting to find would also likely violate the establishment clause. At a basic level, the State cannot favor one religion over another or religion over non-religion. If the legislative intent were explicitly to help the LDS Church build temples-that would likely be unconstitutional.
@@KolbyReddish the intent would be to protect religious groups from discrimination, so it wouldn't violate the EC. But it would be read to especially broadly protect the rights of religious minority groups--which I believe is explicitly reflected in the text of the statute. In this sense, it wouldn't be any different from statutes protecting against race-based or sex-based discrimination. You do make a good point about how his testimony probably wouldn't be considered part of the legislative history for RLUIPA.
Weren't Brown v Board of Education, Obergefell, and Loving all "test cases"? It is misguided to suggest that there is something inherently untoward about constitutional litigation.
This is why I explicitly said there’s nothing untoward about testing constitutional limits. I would note that I see a pretty significant difference between the morality of attempting to litigate the right to enjoy equal treatment versus litigating to advance other rights-but that’s entirely a personal judgment.
@@KolbyReddish religious minorities like Muslims, Jews, Mormons, and indigenous groups who would benefit from a win here all believe that they are asking for equal treatment.
@@KolbyReddish so, according to you, religious minorities don't deserve equal treatment because they engage in some of the same discriminatory practices as the religious majorities with whom they seek parity. Quite the bold take.
@@kp6553 that’s not at all what I said. Everyone deserves equal treatment-everyone. Equal treatment, to me, doesn’t allow for religiously motivated discrimination nor does it allow for preferential treatment that religionists are claiming today is “religious liberty.” That’s the current double-bind on first amendment jurisprudence that will likely come to a head in the next ten to twenty years. You’re deliberately attempting to put words into my mouth that you know full well I don’t agree with. Please don’t do so again, particularly when I’ve entertained your questions and answered in good faith. If you do, our exchanges will conclude.
@@sheliabryant3997 You’re childishly dismissive. There’s good information in these podcasts that, because they are as much as half a working day long, will never get to those who need to hear it. Getting to the point is a good thing when trying to be informative; meandering chit-chat, while unavoidable for aimless people like you, is not.
@@KolbyReddish it absolutely was your admission. At the very least if you don’t think it’s real, that means you’ve never felt it. However, it probably goes deeper than that.
@@UTTX I said something to the effect of “I felt the same feeling I would have described as the Spirit.” So you’re just demonstrating you can’t even be honest at a very basic level. I’m not saying the feeling isn’t real-but the feeling is being labeled by Mormons as being something that it simply isn’t. Feeling a warm feeling doesn’t equate to supernal truth coming from God. I’ve felt the same feeling in a ton of different contexts and places. It’s part of the normal human experience and you’ve been falsely convinced it isn’t. “Probably goes deeper than that”-I don’t know what you’re trying to imply, but I really don’t care about your opinion of me. You’re obviously just trying to insult people you don’t know anything about to make you feel better about your religious beliefs.
I’m disappointed that you people talking are calling church leaders INCOMPETENT, it’s blasphemous and your e oppositional to church leaders. They were chosen by God to lead the church on earth. I live in California and there was a lot of opposition here in San Diego about the location of the San Diego Temple. President Benson at the time did not budge, he told the owner of the land that that was the spot they want and they did not change their position. So the owner of the land raised the price of the land and the prophet gave them what they asked because that is the location the Lord picked out through the prophet for the San Diego Temple. Who’s at the head of the church? N the same thing happened with the Newport Beach Temple, major oppositions also but we got the land and the temple built; now the residence around the temple there appreciate it. You people need. To go to the church headquarters and speak with the prophet instead of your spewing out anti church rhetoric here. By the way, did Jesus hire you to be judges..
@salustone6545 If the temple is built, without any changes, within Fairview's commercial zone or built at 68 ft high within Fairview's residential zone, how will this impact religious worship within the temple?
@patriciafinn5717 you avoided the question. The answer is no. The covenants and ordinances don't involve language about the temple's size. The church can keep the temple's dimensions in the commercial zone. If church built a 68 ft temple in the residential zone, it won't impact the symbolism that it's a place of God. The church's argument is fiction.
It really doesn't feel out of the realm of possibility that this is largely intentional when you remember that Nelson held on to his naming grudge for what, 30-40 years? And then waited until he had absolute power to do what he wanted. I'm apprehensive to see what all Mr Oaks has planned as cranky old man in chief. 🫠
Oh, LANDON! "We should call jesus, 'legion' is S O L I D. G O L D. [The "definition of a prophet" as recently delivered from those centenarion lips was preposterous. Esp. as it was intended to proclaim that to which Landon so eloquently - and accurately - replied (above).
Good luck with the church of not paying taxes. I'm quaker, and some quakers a while back decided that since their taxes funded war, and our faith bans war, they weren't going to pay their taxes. It didn't work out so well for them. It was okay for a while, but eventually, the IRS came after them, and the back taxes were taken from their paychecks. Thank you for your great videos. I've never been mormon, but as a quaker, we are encouraged to study other religions. I wanted to study momonism, but since they are quite culty, I decided to learn from ex-mormons rather than current mormons. Your channel has given me much insight on the mormon religion, and I must admit that I've been sucked in by this temple building bullshit. Keep up the good work!
I'm going to start a petition to make Kolby part of the Mormonish podcast permanently!! Excited for the episode! 😂
He's the bomb!
Kolby doing his own podcast is a GREAT idea!!! Good LawTubers have helped me understand so many cases & lawsuits. His voice is sorely needed out here.
This episode is so AWESOME!!! Thank you. I could comment on so many things but early on you mentioned that Russell Nelson had spent more time supporting black people not having the priesthood than them having the priesthood. That BLEW my mind and gave me perspective on how grossly limited his views might be. So ironic for a "seer." Love you all! Thanks!
I would consider the source of where you're getting your info before you just believe what you are told.
this is a fascinating topic. Kolby's input show a great understanding of the legal process. He adds so much to the discussion. Rebecca and Landon have made this a top-notch podcast. Thanks.
I couldn’t agree more! ❤
Great coverage on this continuing saga. I’ll definitely watch Kolby’s podcast.
"The truth becomes expendable"
Most real quote in the episode.
Truth has always been expendable.
@@kerryholyoak5720Only for those without any integrity.
I agree that Kolby explains things so well and makes them easy to understand. This was very interesting and I’m looking forward to his podcast!
Excellent episode Rebecca, Landon and Kolby! Thank you for your continued research into this.
Looking forward to your podcast when it’s ready Kolby.
Y'all are awesome! Thank you for all the research you put in to make sure you're speaking facts!
Mormonish + Kolby is must-watch TV! Love you guys! Hello from Boy-See.
Hello from NE Texas! I'm the one that grew up near McKinney and remember when the McKinney Ward split into McKinney 1st and 2nd wards.
And to really put into perspective just how old RMN is, Brigham Young had only been dead 25 years when he was born.
Great video, I love at the 36:35 mark when Rebecca addresses the Scopes Monkey Trial and Inherit The Wind. My mother was in the play at one time. She was Mrs. Brady. For those who don't know. Mrs. Brady's husband is a lawyer and religious zealot who thinks very highly of himself. He loves to talk and loves to be heard. I love that play, and the movie Inherit The Wind is one of my all-time favorites.
Rebecca always seems to be able to link to a play or a movie or a song!
I'm only one hour in but let me remind anyone who has forgotten. Dallin Oaks is a company man. Not a man of God. He's the guy who jumped to the podium to announce to the membership that a story made up by Mark Hofmann, murderer and forger, made perfect sense. He will say absolutely anything that furthers the church's interest. ANYTHING.
Yep. He's the one who said a white salamander was very similar to an angel. Someone had to make this case to members. This guy will say anything. Talk about egg on the face when the forgery was discovered! He had an omelet for 12 smeared across his mug. There's something seriously off about this guy.
I'm glad someone brought up Hoffman and Oaks. I recently talked to a TBM and they knew nothing about this situation. I suggested they read the book, Salamander to find the real Dallin Oaks.
Couldn't say it better myself. Hes the classic rhetorical, and that is no compliment
Kolby you’re exceptional 🤯
A good example of a situation where religion and laws clash: I was a nanny in London in the mid 80s. Forgive me if I get details regarding the observance wrong but I remember tv news stories where, for the festival of Eid al-Adha, devout Muslims were practicing the ritual slaughter of live animals in the street in front of their homes. It may have been a small localized group of people in the story - probably not a huge annual problem. Needles to say many cultural differences created issues but health and safety was the important and dictating influence. Not sure when the law was put in place but today the ritual slaughter can only occur in a licensed slaughterhouse.
This was a really informative episode. Thank you
“I can’t keep my lawyers straight.” @Rebecca This is comedy gold!
Yup, Rebecca comes up with real gems nearly every episode. She’s a force of nature👏
Good luck with the church of not paying taxes. I'm quaker, and some quakers a while back decided that since their taxes funded war, and our faith bans war, they weren't going to pay their taxes. It didn't work out so well for them. It was okay for a while, but eventually, the IRS came after them, and the back taxes were taken from their paychecks.
Thank you for your great videos. I've never been mormon, but as a quaker, we are encouraged to study other religions. I wanted to study momonism, but since they are quite culty, I decided to learn from ex-mormons rather than current mormons. Your channel has given me much insight on the mormon religion, and I must admit that I've been sucked in by this temple building bullshit.
Keep up the good work!
Sending you love my friend!
The following comes from the Church's statement on Fairview:
"In sum, temples are the House of the Lord. Temple design and location are determined
by the First Presidency of the Church “under the direction of the Lord.” Their design not
only accommodates religious worship but is itself an act of worship. Attempts by government officials to dictate temple location and design would interfere with the Church’s cherished
beliefs. That is the very essence of a “substantial burden.”
In short, a church never holds the trump card. The municipality always holds it because
no matter how sincere or how important the affected religious exercise is, it can be restricted
or even prohibited if the municipality has a compelling interest and pursues that interest
through the narrowest possible means. A compelling interest is an interest of the
“highest order.” It generally requires some “substantial threat to public safety, peace, or
order.”
In reality, it is not about temples. It is about the First Presidency's revelation taking a higher priority over the town's values, laws, and precedents. For this reason, as an active church member and a US citizen, I cannot support the church's position. The town's people elected the officials to make sure religions are treated equally and to design and enforce laws in "Keeping it Country". The people didn't elect the church to define what it means to have order, safety, or peace. The town's responsibility is to make sure the church is not discriminated in comparison to other religions or secular institutions.
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/mckinneytexastemple.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/RLUIPA-Submission-Statement-Fairview.pdf
Agreed!
@@mormonishpodcast1036
I keep trying to find ways to "get in" to the cast.
Before I get bumped again,
Just HAVE to say THANK YOU, Kolby. Thank. you. so. very. much. 🐦
Thanks for the information.
Amazing episode guys ❤
Thank you
Oaks always wanted to be a real supreme justice.... He made it to states supreme court.... But always wanted more.
In Hollands video at Nelsons bday celebration he talked about Nelson in the past tense and also referred to his presidency as his “administration “. 21:25
Yes, they ignored their best scholar, Hugh Nibley. He warned them to be leaders not managers.
That was so hard to listen to the kurt & mcconkie rep. His tone and way of speaking, as well as his manipulation. He talks about how not everyone can go but people can hope with looking up at that inspirational spire. Not acknowledging that many people DON'T want it there and don't want to look at it! What about them. He's super gross.
Exactly. Freedom of religion ends with you. You can believe whatever you want, you can worship however you want in your home. The moment it effects another person, that freedom ends. It's very clear in the Constitution. It's obvious they hate the American Constitution.
Mad skills Kolby! The world gets dark when one realizes just what and how much is expendable for this church. Zero value given to persons, and even doctrine. I wager that the term home teachers was dropped so that ministering members, as well as bishops would be exempt from reporting abuse of any kind to the state. Home Teachers aren’t exempt, but ministers are. They know exactly what they are doing. There is a plan, and no one is safe. Words matter. Blood Oaths matter. It’s despicable. Who needs demons from another world when we have church leaders old, and barely alive, behaving like demons right here now? It’s asinine.
@othersheep.
BAAA-BAAANGG!! 💕
@othersheep.
X 200 BILLION 💥💥💥
Do you think Nemo is being excommunicated to discredit his position as a faithful member? Would this strengthen the church position on an appeal or future legal action?
I just want if Kolby reads this I'm super excited about you doing a web series. You really are pretty awesome, smart and level headed. Rebecca and Landon, love you both. Really becoming my favorite podcasts in general. I also want to give Landon a lot of credit, he ex military, straight as they come. But he and Rebecca both stand up for lgbt community. We have to have our straight allies and It means alot to me. I am gay and grew up with such judgement and religious trauma that little things mean so much. ❤
Thanks so much!
Looking more and more like the medieval catholic church.
And look how that ended?!
The Commerce Clause should apply to the LDS Church because it is an appendage of a huge corporation.
Such a good point about how if we follow where the logic leads, then any sincere belief would supersede laws like zoning codes, making them inert.
11:54 to12:20 Should be a Short/TikTok. Well said, Kolby!
Just watched the character Nadine on Larry's Country Diner show she just went to put a sign up on her church, which stated
"There ain't no use talking to God when you ain't talking to your neighbour!" Now that's what I call
TRUTH! And I'm sure that Jesus would agree, not Joseph's Smiths version of Jesus, obviously!!!!!
Kolby I hope for one of your first videos you will do the Dred Scott case
Kolby! Can’t wait for the history lessons. I’m definitely looking forward to that!
Love Coby!! Im swedish and I still learn A LOT OF YOU!!!!
Commenting to help.
Great insight. I've come to similar conclusions. You can be a zealous member, give yourself 100% for your entire life, but if you're ever caught publicly opposing the Living 15, in a way, that could tarnish their reputation - whether benign criticism or outright confrontation - it's treated with equal gravity and a directive from SLC to the local stake president will arrive, usually with a confidential dossier of all you’re behavior, not be shown to the soon to be excommunicated member (unless you’re friends or the Stake Pres has integrity and uses reasonable judgment. But many at that level want to rise up to a GA, so these are tests to determine their ability to fall inline within the hierarchy and most of all test their loyalty to the 15).
Yet you can disavow the Book of Mormon, say Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet, or even claim Jesus was just a man, who saw himself as an apocalyptic preacher (which is the historical consensus), and the consequence? You’re left alone with your opinion. It only matters if it's directed publicly at the 15. That is the only sure path to excommunication. (But it looks like Oaks, wants that to change, I say for cult/tribalism sake, make punishment public again, as a deferent and it usually is a catalyst for self-proclaimed spies, aka unofficial policing.)
They know they don't truly have priesthood keys, but rather keys to protect the institution. Combined with their "Second Anointing" ritual which claims they "cannot commit sin," (none have seen Jesus, during or after the ritual, so they know they don’t have any divine keys) this gives them a free pass to do whatever they deem necessary to protect the church, at all costs- moral or not.
That's why everything and everyone is expendable to them. They only care about the institution, which for them is inseparable from who they are. That’s why they are so sensitive and lacks the ability to be accountable. They church, like cults and MLMs, structure is like a pyramid, the higher you how the less accountability, so when or if you get to the tip top, you have free rein. There is no oversight or accountability. They know it and they all having been brainwashed to live and die by hierarchy, they gain more and more influence and power but still bend the knee to the president because odds will be that they will one day get there and want that unbridled power. No member of the quorum questions the final decision. You read or hear it from time to time by the 15 in their talks. Think Holland and musket talk at Maxwell Institute when he talks about the stationary and the name of the church. Shocking how strict they are with seniority and they all buy their time to be the president. going back to there is no separation of who they are or their value between the institution and themselves. They are have been so indoctrinated, training and practiced as they moved up in rank through callings into the 70’s and ultimately in the 15 for decades. They can’t separate themselves anymore. It's similar to how many Jews see no separation between nationality and religion.
This has been the case since 1830. Loyalty to the leader. The church essentially reinvented itself multiple times when forced to move: Palmyra, Kirtland, Nauvoo, and Utah each had distinct versions of Mormonism. This was often because the majority of leaders and members left or were excommunicated after seeing the cracks- The Truth in Joseph Smith's claims and behavior.
Joseph Smith himself acknowledged this tendency in D&C 121:39: "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion."
Unless Joseph was a complete narcissistic, pedophilic psychopath (which many cult leaders are), I suspect he had Narcissistic and Antisocial Personality Disorders, possibly with pedophilic tendencies and other psychological issues. He fits the stereotypical cult leader profile, which became more apparent as he aged. By Nauvoo, he was wearing his general's uniform daily and essentially acting as judge, jury, and executioner of the city. You had to kiss the ring. You had to be loyal to Joseph at all costs. Think of the endowment rituals back then… even up to the ‘90’s I think, the oath of vengeance (or law of vengeance) “You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children's children unto the third and fourth generation.”
Many of the persecutions the early church faced were reactions to the behavior of members and leaders… loyalty to Joseph and his commands. a fact often missing from the official history but well-documented in objective historical accounts.
When you consider all of this - from the leaders' self-perception as institutional guardians who cannot sin, to the culture of the church from the beginning, to the natural effects that occur in $265+ billion multinational corporations - it all makes sense. The issue arises when trying to frame it as the only true church of Jesus, which can only be maintained through tribalism, confirmation bias, and cognitive fallacies.
The objective data points to a different conclusion, but as Carl Sagan aptly put it:
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."
(The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark)
I get triggered when you ask others to read. Sunday School did this, and the act makes me remember being asked to read when I didn't want to read and then having to read in front of my friends.
Trigger doesn't mean I have a breakdown; it means that I remember something I disliked from my past.
I am so sorry ❤
Good name for the church! Oaks is already waiting impatiently.
Talking about the extermination order, etc. reminds me of my kids when one comes crying to me that the other one hit them. They don't want to talk about what they did to antagonize the other, or their part in it. 😂 I tell them I need to know the whole story, and that they were both wrong. It's like the one who was hit acts persecuted, just like the church does. It's ridiculous!
Super presentation 😊
I've watched the leadership of this church right back to the time of Joseph Smith. I've watched in disgust about all of they're hiding their own sins from the rest of the world. And yet... their sins are not hidden. It's as if the emperor is foolish enough to believe that he's actually wearing acceptable clothing
Which brings me to a point Let the churches senior leadership are acting like a song that I remember from years ago in a Church Musical, called "My Turn on Earth" 🌎
The song was "Follow Me".
Who are the First Presidency actually acting like here?
Satan's plan for sure 👌🏽 💯%
Go give this episode a quick 👍 like!
Thanks!
You're so awesome!! thank you so much!!! We really appreciate your support!!
What happened with Ballard ? Was he in some kind of troublebefore he passed away? Maybe answer after the episode is over .
Tim Ballard - the OUR guy - not M. Russell Ballard. Tim Ballard has multiple lawsuits against him from women that worked for/with him at OUR for sexual assault and harassment for things that happened during his "couple's ruse" scheme during the OUR operations to "rescue" victims of trafficking. He was condemned by the church for his actions several months ago.
MRB was always a loose cannon for the Church's reputation. Do some research about it (Lynn Packer's articles). He was neck deep in the Tim Ballard fiasco when it broke, and passed from the picture shortly after.
He was president of Keystone financial in the 60’s. That was a stock brokerage firm owned by Zions… the church. Keystone AND Ballard were sanctioned by the SEC for falsely misleading investors. Google- M Russell Ballard SEC.
@@gcarson19
ABSOLUTELY!!
Thanks for reminder and reference to L. Packer.
The man is amazing researcher, journalist,
and reporter.
What do active church leaders in the Fairview meeting q & a think about an attorney answering the question about steeple height? I thought the church was run by Jesus, prophets, and apostles not kirton mckonkie.
The idea that a steeple helps people look up to heaven is bogus. All the people in Fairview will be thinking how toxic the Mormon church is every time they see that steeple. How does that help bring people to Christ?
Why don’t they build it where the zoning allows for such height? Then because of the majestic steeple, people will want to build homes and other residential stuff around it. Sad
Stay together dear Church members in this quest to build this new Temple
9.15.24. Three days ago, I was watching an excellent "mainstream" CHRISTIAN podcast from a theological
campus conference in which it was mentioned that there was a current movement to have tax-exempt status for churches revoked. This was very worrisome for this well known organization the REALLY DOES depend heavily on genuine DONATIONS and grants to produce its materials and keep its training facilities in operation.
What you are now discussing
as having been orchestrated by Oaks is CHILLING.
WHAT ANOTHER VERY CLEVER WAY TO GET the GOSPEL preached by Paul
to APPEAR to be in alliance with the GRIFT devised by js!
Oaks IS cleverer than s***n himself. He would foresee -
NOT by prophetic inspiration, but rather, by sheer BUSINESS ACUMEN - that this would AFFECT EVERY RELIGIOUS organization extant.
And THIS CONTRIVANCE of federal legislation would have them every one lined up behind the mormin merlin. 😭🤮😭
They have been arguing that they are going to lose their tax exempt status for decades. They have multiple Senators and Congressmen who are temple endowed and they have billions of dollars to throw at maintaining their tax exempt status. I can’t imagine they would ever lose that even if it is deserved.
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Keep trying to like, but won't take. Only happens with you and Nemo.
Why is that, do you think?]
Not sure. I just liked your comment without any issue but we have learned you-tube can be very fickle. We appreciate the comment!
@@mormonishpodcast1036
Seems to change after I waste time and space protesting, after many tries.
And I AM allowed to comment, just not to like.
Thanks for your reply.
Sorry to have gone overboard today. My equivalent to standing roadside with a cardboard sign way out there in CODY. 😻
129 comment Mormonish acknowledged only 3 folks 😯
i had a story for them think though now maybe i might do it
i might say
why they're not more interactive
If you ask somebody who doesn't respond to very many people
🤔 What's the chance of the responsive
Mormonish!!!! Rebecca!!! Landon!!!
You're unresponsive!!!!! 🚑
We are so sorry! Both of use work full time jobs and this is the busiest season for Landon who is working 12 hour days! We really appreciate our viewers and try our best to respond! We'll do better! Thanks for watching!
That's why stating They are a Sovereign Citizen is Bunk?
The church pretends to be christian and to believe in God. Did God like the tower of Babel? 🤔
At 1:13, it shouldn't be difficult to know what the rules are to start by reading the Constitution, which this Supreme Court is doing.
I kind of hope he does.
GJ, CO to Manti is 3.5 hrs. Boohoo if you have to go 20 mins!
Kolby, do you think that President Oaks' testimony in support of RFRA could be material to a judge's interpretation of the legislative history and text? Doesn't this strongly support the Church's interpretation of RLUIPA as applied to the instant disputes? Like, if RLUIPA was intentionally written to help the LDS Church overcome NIMBY opposition to new temples, then isn't the correct interpretation of the statute that it was intended to help the LDS Church (and other religious minorities) build places of worship despite NIMBY opposition?
I am open to correction if I'm missing the mark here.
Typically, legislative history material is only consulted if the text of the law at issue itself is ambiguous.
That would be the only occasion to consult it, and it wouldn’t only include consulting Oaks’ statement. Oaks’ statement wasn’t even on RFRA, so it almost certainly wouldn’t apply to interpreting RLUIPA.
For what it’s worth, the interpretation you’re attempting to find would also likely violate the establishment clause. At a basic level, the State cannot favor one religion over another or religion over non-religion. If the legislative intent were explicitly to help the LDS Church build temples-that would likely be unconstitutional.
@@KolbyReddish the intent would be to protect religious groups from discrimination, so it wouldn't violate the EC. But it would be read to especially broadly protect the rights of religious minority groups--which I believe is explicitly reflected in the text of the statute. In this sense, it wouldn't be any different from statutes protecting against race-based or sex-based discrimination.
You do make a good point about how his testimony probably wouldn't be considered part of the legislative history for RLUIPA.
Weren't Brown v Board of Education, Obergefell, and Loving all "test cases"? It is misguided to suggest that there is something inherently untoward about constitutional litigation.
This is why I explicitly said there’s nothing untoward about testing constitutional limits. I would note that I see a pretty significant difference between the morality of attempting to litigate the right to enjoy equal treatment versus litigating to advance other rights-but that’s entirely a personal judgment.
@@KolbyReddish religious minorities like Muslims, Jews, Mormons, and indigenous groups who would benefit from a win here all believe that they are asking for equal treatment.
@@kp6553 that’d be a lot more believable claim if religious groups didn’t claim religious exemptions from non-discrimination laws.
@@KolbyReddish so, according to you, religious minorities don't deserve equal treatment because they engage in some of the same discriminatory practices as the religious majorities with whom they seek parity. Quite the bold take.
@@kp6553 that’s not at all what I said. Everyone deserves equal treatment-everyone. Equal treatment, to me, doesn’t allow for religiously motivated discrimination nor does it allow for preferential treatment that religionists are claiming today is “religious liberty.” That’s the current double-bind on first amendment jurisprudence that will likely come to a head in the next ten to twenty years.
You’re deliberately attempting to put words into my mouth that you know full well I don’t agree with. Please don’t do so again, particularly when I’ve entertained your questions and answered in good faith. If you do, our exchanges will conclude.
These “post mormon” podcasts are annoyingly long. Cut down on the chit-chat and get to the point.
There’s plenty of post Mormon content on Tik Tok if you would like short surface level information.
@@mormonishpodcast1036 that’s the rub, isn’t it. You talk for hours and manage to provide a Tik Tok worth of information.
Those of us who enjoy long conversational videos appreciate the long conversational videos.
@jeeperp3926.
Or You could just move on.
Why are you here???
@@sheliabryant3997 You’re childishly dismissive. There’s good information in these podcasts that, because they are as much as half a working day long, will never get to those who need to hear it. Getting to the point is a good thing when trying to be informative; meandering chit-chat, while unavoidable for aimless people like you, is not.
Just means you’ve never been worthy to ever have ever felt the spirit Kolby
Sure-whatever you need to tell yourself to make you feel better.
@@KolbyReddish it’s not what I said, it was your own admission…
@@UTTX it wasn’t and it’s “your” but again, whatever you need to tell yourself about me to make yourself feel better is good with me.
@@KolbyReddish it absolutely was your admission. At the very least if you don’t think it’s real, that means you’ve never felt it. However, it probably goes deeper than that.
@@UTTX I said something to the effect of “I felt the same feeling I would have described as the Spirit.” So you’re just demonstrating you can’t even be honest at a very basic level.
I’m not saying the feeling isn’t real-but the feeling is being labeled by Mormons as being something that it simply isn’t. Feeling a warm feeling doesn’t equate to supernal truth coming from God. I’ve felt the same feeling in a ton of different contexts and places. It’s part of the normal human experience and you’ve been falsely convinced it isn’t.
“Probably goes deeper than that”-I don’t know what you’re trying to imply, but I really don’t care about your opinion of me. You’re obviously just trying to insult people you don’t know anything about to make you feel better about your religious beliefs.
I’m disappointed that you people talking are calling church leaders INCOMPETENT, it’s blasphemous and your e oppositional to church leaders. They were chosen by God to lead the church on earth. I live in California and there was a lot of opposition here in San Diego about the location of the San Diego Temple. President Benson at the time did not budge, he told the owner of the land that that was the spot they want and they did not change their position. So the owner of the land raised the price of the land and the prophet gave them what they asked because that is the location the Lord picked out through the prophet for the San Diego Temple. Who’s at the head of the church? N the same thing happened with the Newport Beach Temple, major oppositions also but we got the land and the temple built; now the residence around the temple there appreciate it. You people need. To go to the church headquarters and speak with the prophet instead of your spewing out anti church rhetoric here. By the way, did Jesus hire you to be judges..
Hi Salustone, are you pretty sure it was the Lord that picked these leaders? If you are, you're naive. Just sayin' ...
By the way Salustone did Jesus choose you to judge other?
@salustone6545 If the temple is built, without any changes, within Fairview's commercial zone or built at 68 ft high within Fairview's residential zone, how will this impact religious worship within the temple?
You didnt hear a word that was said..did you???.they speak facts ..not gaslighting lies..respecr to you..😢
@patriciafinn5717 you avoided the question. The answer is no. The covenants and ordinances don't involve language about the temple's size. The church can keep the temple's dimensions in the commercial zone. If church built a 68 ft temple in the residential zone, it won't impact the symbolism that it's a place of God. The church's argument is fiction.
It really doesn't feel out of the realm of possibility that this is largely intentional when you remember that Nelson held on to his naming grudge for what, 30-40 years? And then waited until he had absolute power to do what he wanted. I'm apprehensive to see what all Mr Oaks has planned as cranky old man in chief. 🫠
At. 39:13++. Rebecca!!
YOU and Paul
Harvey:
NAIL-GUNS. 🐦
Oh, LANDON!
"We should call jesus,
'legion' is
S O L I D.
G O L D.
[The "definition of a prophet"
as recently delivered from those centenarion lips was preposterous.
Esp. as it was intended to proclaim that to which Landon so eloquently - and accurately - replied (above).
Good luck with the church of not paying taxes. I'm quaker, and some quakers a while back decided that since their taxes funded war, and our faith bans war, they weren't going to pay their taxes. It didn't work out so well for them. It was okay for a while, but eventually, the IRS came after them, and the back taxes were taken from their paychecks.
Thank you for your great videos. I've never been mormon, but as a quaker, we are encouraged to study other religions. I wanted to study momonism, but since they are quite culty, I decided to learn from ex-mormons rather than current mormons. Your channel has given me much insight on the mormon religion, and I must admit that I've been sucked in by this temple building bullshit.
Keep up the good work!
Love to hear it has been helpful!