Absolutely. The big issue comes down to expectations - those with aphantasia (when they realize they have it) tend to feel discouraged, as though it's a disability that will interfere with their goals. Those with very strong visualization skills on the other hand end up developing the expectation that they should be able to draw the things exactly as they see them in their heads, but when they try to, it falls flat, causing some to similarly believe that they lack "talent". Both ultimately need to remember that we're not born with the skills we need to draw. That it's a difficult thing to learn, and rather contrary to the skills we evolved to have as a species - like remembering things as basic symbols. That's a survival skill, not a defect, but we have to actively rewire our brains through practice, time, and effort, in order to draw things as they actually are.
@@Uncomfortable Dude, I imagine things very hard and vividly in my mind when I listen to music or when I'm just walking, and you described perfectly how I feel, about that I "should" be capable of drawing things just as I imagine them. You're great
as an aphantasiac i think it’s actually made me more confident as an artist. a common struggle i hear is artists not being able to match their art to the image in their mind, and my lack of visual imagination completely prevents that from happening. this applies to a whole lotta other things but that’s just the basis
This is so interesting to me. I’m an artist too and I can’t imagine life without…I guess it’s hyperphantasia if that’s a thing? Like to the point where I “see” my imagination, and not what’s in front of me if I daydream too much, so I trip or bump into someone. But, it is very limiting. My art never lives up to what’s in my head and it never will because it’s always shifting and flowing like a film… so that’s our obstacle, and that’s also why I love animation! If you’d like to tell me more about what you experience, and how your creative process works I would love to hear!!
As someone who can see things pretty clearly in my head, I think you might be onto something. I actually choose to draw in a more stylized, cartoony way because trying to draw realistically from my head ends up looking... just off.
My brain seems to do this completely different thing where it pictures the thing, but like an a hole who takes your lunch money only gives you a few details while dangling the rest in my face :(
I'm the same way. Being unable to visualize also forces you to carefully study and examine your drawing at every step. You can't fall into the trap of "drawing what you think youre seeing" because you can only see what's right there
@@aschneider8912you are aphantasoac you mean? If I may ask, I mean no disrespect or insensitivity, bit I am very curious because I don't think I have heard of this phenomenon..is it like what causes it or anything else about the neuroscience of it or etiology I guess if it is a disorder? It almost seems like something ppl can learn to do better isn't it or am I wrong? And is there any correlation between athanasius and lack of dreaming or lack of remembering dreams or different effects when wearing virtual reality headsets or something..or even association's with synesthesia maybe? I'm trying to be insightful and/or clever. .but maybe I'm failing..hope I am not being rude or insensitive..thanks for sharing.
i thought i was crazy when i realized as a kid people could actually “imagine” things and have the image pop up in their head. like what? if i close my eyes it’ll just be dark no matter how hard i try to imagine
If I’m being honest I don’t even understand where people who say they ‘only see black’ are seeing it 💀 I feel like my brain can’t even get around this concept of thinking images(/colors) exists for _other_ people! Thinking and images are just mutually exclusive to my mind- it’s like if someone told you they could see flavors, or hear temperatures. I wouldn’t even know how to imagine it. I actually used to think people were talking about hallucinations until very recently, and when I finally had visualization explained to me, it threw my whole world for a loop that I’m still honestly struggling with. It just doesn’t make sense.
@@solsystem1342 It’s actually really interesting you say that because I’m the only person I’ve ever seen that absolutely hates fantasy, sci-fi, etc. I don’t understand or enjoy anything I read, period, because I can’t put meaning to the words…but fantasy just adds an extra layer of meaninglessness that I can’t overcome. It makes a lot of sense now if people need images to understand it!
@@jasond.b-w “see black” not in my mind, like literally when you close your eyes it’s black, sometimes reddish if you’re staring at a light but yea i’m just saying i never was able to imagine
Wholeheartedly agree. As long as you know the fundamentals really well and have practiced a lot, being able to visualize what you’re drawing won’t really make a difference. Even if you can, you will eventually learn that art is more of a dialogue with your work in progress than it is simply recreating what you see in your minds eye.
I feel that in the original video, I didn't make this as clear as I could have - but I'm glad you picked up on it! What you said was entirely what I wanted to get across, though perhaps I'll need to take another stab at this topic on my own channel in the future to make that clearer.
@@UncomfortableI think you did a great job at explaining, I’d love to hear more! I really liked your point about learning to draw things as they actually are rather than how we imagine them to be. That’s something a lot of beginners look past and it’s so extremely important.
I've seen some AI users claim they use AI because they got aphantasia and therefore they could never draw, but there's really no excuses. Uncomfy has it, Glen Keane has it, Ed Catmull has it. No excuses.
@@SmitherShrek Yeah, if you use it for reference photos whatevs then it's cool w/ me. But people who just type stuff and claim it's their own art is so unfathomably lame.
They say that art is talent and hard work, but precisely in desperation and sincerity, the person's hand shines. At least among the people I've seen so far, people who have become pros and are recognized by people and live a pleasant life have gone through such an intermediate process.
For me it’s my chest, but otherwise same. I literally get angry that I can’t understand what I’m even supposed to do to make this happen. It’s like if someone told you to listen for a flavor- my mind literally starts disintegrating like a AI being given an impossible task and the physical pressure of effort and frustration boils in my neck/chest. I feel like I’m choking. It’s 100% not just you!
I don't have aphantasia, but I'm thinking I'm rather close. Whenever I read fiction, it's not vivid at all, but rather dreamlike- formless, but still immersive. When it comes to art, people I spoke to often had the complaint that they can't put down to paper/canvass what they're envisioning in their heads. I always say, 'neither do I' but also I don't have much of a vision to begin with, just a vague idea. It just takes form as I draw. It always starts rough, then gets a few adjustments here and there, polish... Adjust again until I'm satisfied. That's always been my process. Often times, I go back to my old works and think 'How did I come up with that?' I find that having a vivid image/plan in your head is, more often than not, a hurdle. It's almost like having an unrealistic expectation. It's more helpful to see what's taking form right in front of you, and adjust and polish it according to the principles you've learned about art and illustration and to your liking. Just have a vague idea of what you want to draw, but keep it formless, like a dream. Since you don't have a vivid expectation, sometimes you'll even surprise yourself. Happy drawing!
Dude I Completely relate with that! I’m quite creative and have a vague idea of what I’m trying to draw idk how to explain it but you did a really good job explaining and I just appreciate this post 😄
i am also an aphantasia-riddled artist!! i saw a video of someone without internal dialogue and she described almost the same thing i deal with. i can imagine words to describe what im thinking, and i kind of just tell myself what i want to draw. for instance, i cant imagine what a big nose looks like; but i can tell myself that i want a character to have a big triangular nose and i just draw what i think it would look like! however when it comes to using references i tend to rely on one picture too much since i just cant imagine anything else other than what im looking at 😢
I’ve been trying to articulate exactly this to people for the past 7 years and this video finally nailed it. I could never describe how gravity relates to everything with me and the spatial awareness aspect.
Every artist I know personally including myself is aphantast. For me personally drawing is something I picked up to communicate the concepts in my head. Because I can't visualize them, I have a hard time to explain them without a sketch
I have the opposite of aphantasia where I always vividly imagine characters in my head to the point where my thoughts are just pictures like when I’m writing something a cartoony me is in my head speaking it
I'm basically the opposite. I can easily create any object in my head in 3D space and manipulate it at will. I can also sorta "copy" what I'm actually seeing and add things to it, to the point I generally don't need a 3D grid/guidelines for still art to look accurate (i still sometimes add one though just because it makes it less mentally taxing, and if it's an animation it's important for consistency, especially if I take a break) But then when I try to actually draw my mental image it often ends up off lmao. Especially if it's not just a sketch- getting a ton of detail right is a lot harder than a basic shape. It feels like my hand just doesn't make the shapes I want, it's got a mind of its own! For anyone else with this issue: I think of it like I'm using my mental image like a reference. Not exact duplication. This helps me not focus on "it's not like I imagined it" and instead just think about how it's looking in its own right, if it's good then it's good, not "not good ENOUGH" because it doesn't match my imagination
I also have complete aphantasia, and had been trying to learn to draw for decades, through many, many starts and stops and frustrations. Until this year, when something finally clicked! I learned how to draw! As in, the actual process that works for me, and now allows me to "find" the "right" shapes and angles and all that good stuff. It's one of the hugest accomplishments I've ever made, and I believe it all happened because of extensive work on mental health (I am a childhood trauma survivor with DID, CPTSD and more) helping to slowly repair this broken brain thanks to neuroplasticity. My point here is this: don't give up! You too can learn to draw! If I did it, with all these disadvantages, you can too! 💙
I recently found out that I’ve been having* prolonged (18 to 100+ hour long) blackouts for my entire life that I wasn’t aware of having, and was diagnosed with DID as well. The differences for me are that a) my complex developmental PTSD isn’t considered to have any realistic functional or symptomatic treatment potential anymore, and b) apart from having complete aphantasia and no imagination, I also have such severe spatial and motor dysgraphia+dyspraxia that I’ve never been able to learn how to write. When I was able to try going to OT, though I can’t anymore because of psych disability, I went through several specialists who all really did the best but ultimately told me I’ll never be able to write and that I’ll always rely on a tablet to type instead. I have a long history since birth of disabling brain injuries and brain damage from chronic infections, drug intoxication, malnutrition, seizures, and sleep deprivation that have since left me wheelchair bound and I think it’s a large part of what makes my learning problems so severe, but I’m having a really hard time accepting that it’s just not fixable. It’s great to know the why, but it doesn’t make it any easier to stop wishing for it to be different. It’s really amazing to me to see someone with any potential for a better outcome, because that’s unfortunately not the case for me, physically or even less so psychiatrically. Wishing you all the best x
same! is this still count as aphantasia? 😢 i feel like impostor when i say i am one because when described, i can visualize it. but i also know that i can't come up with an "original" vision and am struggling with something that others aren't... uh anyways that's that idk how to explain it 😞
I feel like I'm pretty close to Aphantasia on the spectrum and I ended up pursuing the creative arts. Know what makes a shot look good and composition and all of that is going to get you a lot further than raw imagineering.
*Guys, I used to have that exact problem, but it has MASSIVELY improved when I started reading books, at first I still couldnt see anything in my mind but throughout the year of active reading I started imagining things and also while sleeping my dreams became more vivid and memorable. It also helped with my meditation. So I can't recommend it enough. I strongly belief it's trainable.*
For me if i am imagining something i really have to describe it then only i can imagine it [without actual image] just by my memories and with the help of description
ALSO. Lots of time me and my artist friends tend to imagine a drawing they want to do, and when trying to make it, it will always look different from how your mind paints it. It doesn't matter how much years you drew. I have been drawing for 10 years, and the outcome WILL ALWAYS BE DIFFERENT. But instead of be happy that "you never what you'll end up creating", lots of us start hating their work because "its not good enough". WHEN ACTUALLY IT IS EVEN BETTER BECAUSE ITS AT LEAST DONE!! I should draw something today arghhhhhhhh
As, someone with aphantasia, I don't like that the ability to render images in the mind is used interchangeably with the word "imagination". I can't visualize like most people, but on the contrary, my imagination IS my talent. As for reading books, I may not see it play out like a movie in my head but I'm imagining a lot of the scenes. The best way to describe not being able to see the picture clearly but having the general idea of what it could look like, is probably like when blind people feel faces. When I watched Hunger Games, it was as though I had seen it already because of how good imagined it. Also I saw the movie cast before I read the book so technically this example is more like ai rendering image to image prompt. Normally I just have the prompt text and I'm generating many thoughts that together create a picture I "imagine" but don't have the gpu to render. I guess us aphantasians have hella storage space for thoughts, ideas, voice notes, our continuously live broadcasting inner voice that doesn't know how to stfu.
I have aphantasia but I'm on a different part of the spectrum. If I try to imagine something, I can't imagine it. But when I'm reading a book that I've already seen the movie adaptation of or I'm reading or writing fanfiction, sometimes I can get a tiny image. It's not vivid by any means, and it doesn't happen every time, but it's something. It's because I've seen it before and my brain just plays back a very distant image of the content I've already seen. When I do get these images, I try to hold onto them as long as I can, because I don't know if I'll ever "see" them again.
I have this too and I’ve always wondered if it’s part of the reason I can’t learn to draw simple shapes. I only learned that there are people who can ‘think’ images pretty recently. I used to always think people were describing hallucinations when they talked about visualizing, or just describing thinking in a hyperbolic way. When I first learned about aphantasia I didn’t even think I had _that_ because the article described it as ‘only seeing black’ and I have no jdea where they could be ‘seeing’ it. It’s such an alien concept to me to try and understand that people can see things that aren’t directly in front of them. I couldn’t even describe what the things I look at every single day, like my bathroom door or my own wheelchair, actually _look_ like. I don’t know what things look like if I’m not currently staring at them. That sounds like science fiction and I can’t even imagine it (I don’t think I have any type of imagination, not just visual.) If there was a cure for this I’d take it in a heartbeat. I don’t remember what the only friend I’ve ever had looked like, because he died a little over a year ago. I know there are plants on my back bricks but I couldn’t tell you around where they are or what shapes they are. The second I look away from something, it stops existing in my mind altogether apart from the knowledge that it exists. I don’t wish this on anyone, especially people who want to learn to draw!
i have aphantasia as well. when i draw, i have to physically put down something on the page to conceptualize it. i might have to sketch out 5 basic body shapes before i can fully start a portrait. using a reference image of an actual person is also helpful, even if that person isn't who i'm drawing.
I kinda have it, like, I can imagine simple stuff like 3d shapes, but the moment I try to imagine a drawing it just fades from existence, it's like it's blurred out and locked behind a paywall, idk really how to describe it but I just can't fucking focus on it.
I also have aphantasia and for some reason drawing is not a problem for me. The visuals seem to be stored in some other way in my mind, because I don't even remember my own face, but can recognize mostly anybody (with some training) and can draw things I can't imagine. It really makes me wonder wtf is happening and how it works
I'm really on the very close to aphantasia side where I sometimes try to visualise things and for a fraction of a second, some vague shapes and associations do come up but dissolve into the background before I really _see_ them... I can look at family pictures and be asked 10 Min later how my parents look and I could not imagine or describe them. Sometimes details come up where I more know than see them, but nothing clear. But I do have an inner voice. When I read it's always the same voice for everyone but hey, at least I have the wonderful option for inner monologue and discussions with myself :]
I am completely oposite and i can drown in my own mind, watching cartoons inside of it, like a privat subscription. But despite the fact that ye, i find its enjoyable and wouldn't give this skill for anything, i cant say that's its particularly sometimes positive. If i couldn't imagine a story with my characters in my head, i would probably had to go and try to make that story on the paper right away to be able to see it. But I think that i daydream to the point of never actually getting to drawing or writing about these guys, because i enjoy watching them in my head. Its not good and it made me very lazy. While i dont have any addictions, my daydreaming feels like one, because sometimes i cant live a day without my mind cartoons. So i would go to the park walking, listening to music, watching those daydreams instead of doing tasks or spending time on my dream project.
i have aphantasia and it for sure is harder, but practice does help with imagining the concept and dept of things. I still need to use a reference most times tho lol
Quickly googled aphantasia just to make sure I had it spelled correctly before talking about it with my discord friends and then I come over here and its on the top of my recommendation feed.
Same I know what these things and people are supposed to look like I know them if there information of me but I can’t even picture them at all in my mind it’s just darkness it’s like I’m just verbally describing what I should be seeing in my head but seeing just dark static
When I have a hard time thinking of something to draw. I draw a box on the page, then I imagine that box is a window. Then I simply sketch what I would imagine myself seeing out of that same window
I’m an artist, I can’t seem to put what I imagine directly to my canvas, because it’s more on the vague side mostly! I would just put down a very rough sketch of the idea or concept, then i stop using my imagination (bcoz there’s no useful infos left😂 I would be struggling if I try too hard) , and just use my skill to make up for the rest. What bothers me is I can’t keep my oc’s face looking the same each time! And I can’t recognize people irl that quickly lol😅 I don’t enjoy reading fiction or novels (I can’t picture what I read) but then I would have very visually detailed dreams! I can see what color and clothes the person in my dream is wearing, and it seems like I picture the space (the streets or building interiors) in 3D😂 One more thing, when I tell people about this, they would ask “then how did you come up with this”? A lot of my inspirations actually come from my dreams!
Aphantasia sounds like such an alien concept to me, who constantly has voices and visuals in my head turned up to 100 lol. In fact it's giving me problems the opposite way, where whatever I imagine is so much better than whatever I can make with my hands
It also causes me to randomly change moods while doing most mundane stuff like walking around because I just start grinning or something at scenarios that play in my head
Yeah I’m artist with aphantasia it’s really hard to explain because my mind is just a void honestly I have no idea how I draw from memory, have imagination and dreams it’s weird.. I never even thought you could have a visual mind eyes so I guess my brain worked around it? Honestly it’s a really weird concept to explain but it’s awesome to know your an aphantasia artist!
I have the opposite of that, I have Hyperphantasia, and I was doing the draw a box challenge, which is really helpful to learn how to convey that 3D feeling of things, and one day I was drawing, but I wasn't putting down any guidelines, and I was wondering why I wasn't applying the things I learned in draw a box. I began thinking: "well, if I don't need to draw all the guidelines because I can just imagine them" Then it clicked. Oh, I can just imagine them, and draw a box was made by a person with Aphantasia!
Aphantasia made art such a frustrating experience to me, but I kept practicing hard regardless. I never made as much progress as other people, though. No matter how hard I tried. Finding out that I have aphantasia has of course helped me understand why I'm struggling so much with art, but it was also devastating to realize that most other people have an advantage that I don't. It also didn't help that all artists with aphantasia that I know of are mediocre at best. Then about a month ago I woke up and randomly didn't have it anymore. I now have a fairly detailed imagination and can even see moving images in my mind. Drawing has NEVER been so insanely easy and fun before and I've made more progress in a month than I had made in the entire past year. It's honestly like a super power. I agree that there are ways to work around this disability, but I highly doubt that someone with aphantasia could ever be as good at drawing as someone with an imagination. I can confirm that it makes a HUGE difference. EDIT: By "imagination" I mean "mental visualization" in this context.
Wow that’s amazing you got a mind’s eye one day! Congrats! I have Aphantasia too but I’m very imaginative and creative also I can draw from memory fairly well, just can’t picture it in my head no idea how I can? Anyway I have a random question have you dreamed before getting a mind’s eye?
@@RoseLord It's really great to hear that you found a way to draw from memory despite the difficulties. I think that most people with aphantasia develop different ways of storing information in more creative ways than other people. Which can be an advantage sometimes. To answer your question: Ironically enough I have always had extremely vivid or even lucid dreams, which I could usually remember in great detail each time. (I think a lot of people with aphantasia have this in common, actually.) Despite having had aphantasia during the day, I could still recall these dreams for a brief moment right after waking up. It was literally like there's film playing in my head. I've also had experiences where images appeared in my head right before I was about to fall asleep. And I could even control them to some degree. Up until recently this was the closest I've ever gotten to having "mental visualization". Honestly, I think I've had much less vivid dreams since I acquired a "mind's eye". Or perhaps I just struggle to remember them now.
It's interesting that you managed to somehow acquire a minds eye though, I've never heard of that happening. Must be nice. But, I think it's still worth it to draw with aphantasia. In fact, I do this because I want to be able to put my vivid dreams on paper.
@@outoforder8791 yeah honestly I’ve been starting to think people who have aphantasia like or want to draw because that’s their only way to visualize but I think that depends on the person Personally I’ve had vivid dreams and void dreams where I basically just remember the dream as facts like just knowing a bed is there or only important items not any details or colors those dreams my brain fills in the blanks so I thought that’s what vivid dreams were void type with my own touch by the time I woke up so I just thought I didn’t have vivid dreams because I couldn’t visualize as soon as I knew it was a dream but all the details even different angles (if it was in 3rd person) I can remember from some dreams probably means they were vivid now it’s funny I’ve only realized that now 😅 sorry if I worded that poorly (Also I have a pretty bad memory but I have dream journal since I find them interesting so I can remember the details or lack there of)
@@Fr0stbite1801 oh my god yes! i've always wanted to draw my dreams, too! but i also have adhd so starting to draw anything at all is _hard_ and keep doing it until finish is even _harder_ ............... 😢
Hah, I don't have aphantasia but I defiantly don't have a vivid imagination. It takes alot of effort to be able to picture what I want, and even then it still isn't clear. Though that hasn't stopped me!
for some reason, i can't imagine something in my own volition when my eyes are closed but i have the most vivid dreams, but at the same time, i can map our literally a 3d object which i can rotate and adjust with my eyes open, almost like i have 3d figure doll placed in my mind
I also have aphantasia, in that, i cannot imagine colour. Its made my peices come out eother really vivid or really muddy. I find it easier to deal in absolutes and have basically learned how to read hex codes. I find it a very fun tool to show to other artists. Btw #B983FF is probably my favourite colour
I have aphantasia but tbh it dosent bother me it actually gave me a buff where I have better memory. (Due to u overriding the original memory everytime u recall it) I still draw an love it but I guess the downsides are that I cant imagine how people will act in a certain way.
I've been trying to figure out if I have this. When I close my eyes, I can't see an actual image (just blackness), but I can... feel it? The problem is, it's really weird to explain and I don't know what people mean when they say they can see things in their minds eye. Like, am I supposed to actually be able to see an image fully? Idk, I'm confused
My theater teacher said i couldn't have aphantasia because im an artist and van describe the things i "see" in my mind. I cant see shit in my head. I think in words and concepts and sounds and vibes. But i cant see anything.
I’ve really only seen artist say they have this like I’ll google a video on it and kid for the time when I look at them there artists maybe it’s more common for us for some reason
For me, whenever im drawing, it is hell for me to imagion what im gonna draw unless im making fanart. The only thing i can draw from ideas is movements. Everytime i draw skmething it has to be in a motion or dance pose. Then i build off of said pose or movement. (This however has made me pretty good at stiryboarding, cause all i see r moving pics) lol probabky not Aphantasia, i can still picture and rember people, but this is a way my brain works twords drawing, and it can both be grand and annoying for me. (Heck whenever im drawing a face, i am activky mimicing said face as much as posible to understand how it would look, which is y i try not to draw faves in public…cause i look insane lol)
wow, so there are people with this? this is incredible!! I mean, if schools knew this, many of the kids who feel bad about not being able to read a book and imagine the stories, would find a better solution than just forcing them to do it, like the solution in this "problem"!! is good to know this information ^^
Hey, I’ve got Aphantasia and I loved to read as a kid. The lack of visuals doesn’t mean that the imagination isn’t there, it’s more like having a computer without a monitor. If you send a picture to that computer, the data for the image is there, it just doesn’t get translated into visual imagery the way that it does for a lot of people.
I'm not sure if i have it, I can see pretty much any object, animal etc. but i can't see faces very well, and this only applies to some people that I see in real life, I can still imagine some faces I see in real life, for example I can imagine some of my classmates, and some i can't, but I can't imagine my family at all. Can anyone tell me why? Is it an easier form of aphantasia or something?
I know this isn't a..."politically correct" (???) question or whatever, but do these people not get CEVs with psychedelics? Can psychedelics decrease the aphantasia? I've never had it--I have the opposite--but one 12-hour trip with LSD made my image imagination permanently more accurate and vivid. Just an idea.
Most of the people with aphantasia I know (myself included) are artists. If there is a causation then I figure it would be that it’s easier to draw when there’s no movie in your head.
I think I have a related problem. My imagination is very vivid but, my sense of space and symmetry is a mess and I tend to go on autopilot when I draw, so everything I want to do symmetrical-ish I have to draw it over and over. I'm trying get used to draw things as textures and silhouettes because it seems I can't grasp regular shapes
I have a deeply creative imagination, but I lack accuracy in a lot of aspects. I could create an entire face from scratch am any form I have a decent grasp of, but I can’t wrap my head around the specifics of like a nose or lips. I also am horrible at imagining a persons face, from famous people to family I genuinely cannot picture their faces.
I'm the opposite. Wanna know the down side? I daydream a lot. Since I can see everything so vividly in my memories, I get distracted and waste too much time not actually practicing.
wait i don’t understand can people see like pictures in color like inside of their eyelids? I guess I kinof can but it’s very very dark, in black and white and i have to focus very hard to do it
There are some "aphantasia level charts" you see online. Maybe one of those types will match up with your experience and you'll have a handy way to explain how you see things in your mind's eye.
like i have the problem that i kind of imagine it, but i cant really see it much, like 2/10 on a good day. i havent been diagnosed with anything, nor i am not really sure if i have it.
Closing eyes isn't nessecary to visualize, it's a myth. I have hyperfantasia and do this with my eyes opened. In addition, having fantasia doesn't indicate a person draws well. A person can draw like сrар. There's no correlation at all. And on the contrary I met some fantastic aphant artists. They just need a lot of references, thats all.
No, it's not always easier. I'm hyperphantasiac and I have big problems getting started with things because I can just keep vividly imagine so much without limit. Which means I can just keep dreaming without action. And when I've completed a project in my head, the fun part has already been experienced and the action just seems like a chore. Like doing your homework and then losing it and have to start over from the beginning, because actually creating something outside my mind feels just like that most times. So my imagination enables my other issues to just grow out of control.
I'm with Q on this one - while having aphantasia can definitely be discouraging at first, I've found that when it actually comes down to learning how to draw, those who can see the things they want to draw in their heads have a harder time getting around the expectations they impose upon themselves as a result. I frequently hear from my students, "I can see the image in my head already, why can't I draw it as though I were looking at a reference image?" but the thing is, what they're seeing in their mind's eye is still just based on the same information anyone else would have access to. It's just that their brains are able to fill in the gaps, not with information we can draw from, but filler that makes us *feel* like we're seeing more. In truth, I didn't always have aphantasia. Some people are born with it, but I developed it in my early teenaged years. Prior to that, I had an extremely vivid visual imagination, and could escape into my mind for hours, so I have the interesting experience of having been on both sides of the fence - though my memory of what it was like isn't the best. Getting back to the point about how much information we have access to, it creates the impression that there's more available to us, but when we attempt to rely upon it, it all falls apart. This can be hugely demotivating, and convince us that we simply don't have the "talent" needed to draw the things in our heads. When in truth, we need to learn two core things: 1. Spatial Reasoning - the ability to understand how the things we draw exist in 3 dimensions, and the relationships between them within thay 3D space, on a more instinctual, not-perfect-but-close-enough level. This allows us to build up to the objects and scenes we want to draw piece by piece, from simple to complex. That means considering how to get to our desired result in three dimensions, rather than having a fully formed 2D image in our heads. 2. Design - the understanding of how to flesh out and explore an idea. It's about understanding design as problem solving, and thus learning to identify the "problem" being solved, so we can break it down into more specific, smaller problems, rather than attempting to jump from a vague, ill-defined idea to a finished concept. It's all about rewiring our brains to perform these tasks that were never necessary for our survival as a species. In that sense, you can think of it as altering ourselves to better approach an activity we were never evolved to do, but that we've always attempted to do despite being ill suited to it. For example, symbol drawing is a common beginner mistake - but simplifying things into their most basic elements makes them far easier to remember, so when you see a flash of orange and stripes in the jungle, you don't waste time considering then pattern, or count how many teeth it's got - you run. Aphantasia was an advantage for me, once I got past the initial assumption of "you'll never be able to draw as well as you'd like". I didn't care, I still wanted to draw. Once I pushed past those thoughts and pursued it anyway, I was able to tackle it without further expectations. After all, what I expected was failure. So, long story short - everybody needs to develop the same skills in order to draw effectively, although they can be learned in a ton of different ways and through a wide variety of strategies. We just need to accept that they do need to be learned, and that can only be done through hard work, effort, and time. The more we go in expecting for ourselves, the harder we make it. There are no shortcuts, and no cheat codes.
@@Uncomfortable I agree mostly. And interesting perspective to hear about, you having experienced both. Images in the mind are fleeting. I don't need to close my eyes to see my imagination, the images I create are "overlayed" what my eyes percieve. Feels a bit like focusing on the stains on a window or the objects behind. You can see both at once, but only really focus on one properly. When looking intently at the paper to see what you are drawing, it's like looking through the window and you lose the image in you mind. I can use the image in my head like a reference, but it's like I have to switch back and forth and recreate my vision while trying to suppress the memory of what I've actually drawn so it doesn't become my new vision, while also trying to compare them with only access to one at a time, partly. And then switching to the vision requires a lot of focus to do it instantly and with perfect details. Or that is the easy part, the hard part is doing it to a globally consistent image that doesn't change as you inspect different parts and doesn't drift over time since my memory isn't completely perfect. But with some energy I can use a vision as a reference. It doesn'y make me able to do great drawings, but I would say it helps me draw well compared to how little practise I have. Enough to impress myself. Maybe not others though, since I have barely any practise :) I think I would be able to improve my drawing by practising using visions as reference, improving my drawings not by actually learning to draw, but becoming more experienced at maintaining my reference while looking at the paper. But actually learning to draw the standard way is probably more efficient for most kinds of drawings anyways.
@@CuulX The conundrum I come across with that - that is, the possibility of such visualization being able to be used as fully informative reference as one would use a photograph, or an object in front of you - is that the visualization (or lack there of) isn't actually the relevant factor. It's memory. The amount of information that is contained in a photograph is *vast*, and human capacity for memory can be impressive, but set against the sheer volume of data that can be contained in a relatively small photograph is hard to compete with. One of the most impressive feats of memorization is the capacity to commit to memory entire stories, a trick that is usually done by having those stories written to song - and such things require enormous training and dedication to recall. So, what we're really saying in the claim that one can use that information reliably as a piece of reference is that we can commit to memory an enormous amount of information - but not with extensive training, but rather... just as a matter of course. That it can be visualized is just one way of manifesting that memory. Of course that's not what you're saying - that mental image can be fuzzy, constantly changing, as you stated yourself. What I believe - of course I have no real way of proving this - is that what kicks in is not actually an incredible ability to memorize and recall, but that instead, it's simply the reverse of what happens when we see something. When we see something, we pick up on the core symbols and process them quicky in order to *identify* the thing we're looking at - so orange, stripes, teeth resolves to big scary tiger monster run run run, as in my previous example. It's not like all we're seeing is so very simplified, but we can't stop and consider every last little minutia of detail. We get dead simple, easily processed inputs, we resolve it to a particular thing, and we act on that. That happening in reverse would be that we are conjuring those same symbols that we've committed to memory, then engaging the same *feeling* we get in identifying something. If you see a tiger in front of you, you may not be taking it all in fully, but you still get the feeling that you've seen it. If you conjure it back up in your mind's eye, then who's to say you're not simply engaging the *feeling* of seeing it, when really only having limited information to work with? As we learn to draw - something we do by actually giving ourselves the time to *take in* the full scope of a given object, and something that takes a ton of time and effort to do - what we're really doing is reorganizing what it is we pay attention to when "studying" something. We change what it is we pick up on most quickly, and allow ourselves to glean more useful, relevant information. We learn to prioritize certain kinds of things over others, looking at the major forms instead of getting caught up in the details. We're still remembering a fairly limited selection of things, but in so doing, we can make more efficient use of our limited capacities. And so, the things we can draw "from our imagination" (or in other words, based on what we can recall) gets more realistic, more accurate, more vivid and detailed. For example, while I don't see anything in my mind's eye, I have developed through years of study a sense of how forms sit in space, how that influences the way in which they're represented on a flat page, how those forms can be combined in that 3D space, and ultimately how the objects I frequently draw break down into their major components. So, I'm able to draw many things from my imagination, not as an act of copying an image in my head, but through a combination of having a grasp of the major elements at play, and using creative problem solving (based on the kinds of relationships and commonalities shared across many different kinds of objects) to fill in the gaps. While this may be a strategy that worked for me, in my experience of teaching students for the last many years, I've come to see it as being the strategy that is generally used - although that is a strategy people generally develop through many different strategies. So courses and instructors may approach getting to that goal in different ways, but it seems like that ability is what allows us humans to draw things that don't exist in front of us (or at all in this world). Of course, I can't know for sure. The tricky part of this is that we all have to grasp around for words to describe how we experience things in our own heads, and even draw conclusions based on our own limited understandings of those things. But that's my theory - that when one conjures an image in their mind, it doesn't have any more information to work from, and so all that's left is the human brain's ability to make us feel as though there's more.
@@Uncomfortable yeah what I don't have memorized is generated on the fly to make the image look consistent enough with my memories and thoughts. Actually drawing things usually reveals the holes in your memory.
People can like actually visualize what their art looks like in their head? I didn’t know people could do that. Every time I try close my eyes to try to imagine things it’s just greyscale static. If I try really hard it kinda can look like something, but it barely ever works. I think I need to go check if I have aphantasia…
It's not a problem for artists. it just means you need to root around with the pencil a bit before you find your drawing.
Yep, just means I wear down my erasers and pencils a little bit more than others lol. Man, I wish real life had ctrl-z
Absolutely. The big issue comes down to expectations - those with aphantasia (when they realize they have it) tend to feel discouraged, as though it's a disability that will interfere with their goals. Those with very strong visualization skills on the other hand end up developing the expectation that they should be able to draw the things exactly as they see them in their heads, but when they try to, it falls flat, causing some to similarly believe that they lack "talent".
Both ultimately need to remember that we're not born with the skills we need to draw. That it's a difficult thing to learn, and rather contrary to the skills we evolved to have as a species - like remembering things as basic symbols. That's a survival skill, not a defect, but we have to actively rewire our brains through practice, time, and effort, in order to draw things as they actually are.
yes, and i hate it
True 👏
@@Uncomfortable Dude, I imagine things very hard and vividly in my mind when I listen to music or when I'm just walking, and you described perfectly how I feel, about that I "should" be capable of drawing things just as I imagine them. You're great
as an aphantasiac i think it’s actually made me more confident as an artist. a common struggle i hear is artists not being able to match their art to the image in their mind, and my lack of visual imagination completely prevents that from happening. this applies to a whole lotta other things but that’s just the basis
This is so interesting to me. I’m an artist too and I can’t imagine life without…I guess it’s hyperphantasia if that’s a thing? Like to the point where I “see” my imagination, and not what’s in front of me if I daydream too much, so I trip or bump into someone.
But, it is very limiting. My art never lives up to what’s in my head and it never will because it’s always shifting and flowing like a film… so that’s our obstacle, and that’s also why I love animation!
If you’d like to tell me more about what you experience, and how your creative process works I would love to hear!!
As someone who can see things pretty clearly in my head, I think you might be onto something. I actually choose to draw in a more stylized, cartoony way because trying to draw realistically from my head ends up looking... just off.
My brain seems to do this completely different thing where it pictures the thing, but like an a hole who takes your lunch money only gives you a few details while dangling the rest in my face :(
I'm the same way. Being unable to visualize also forces you to carefully study and examine your drawing at every step. You can't fall into the trap of "drawing what you think youre seeing" because you can only see what's right there
@@aschneider8912you are aphantasoac you mean? If I may ask, I mean no disrespect or insensitivity, bit I am very curious because I don't think I have heard of this phenomenon..is it like what causes it or anything else about the neuroscience of it or etiology I guess if it is a disorder? It almost seems like something ppl can learn to do better isn't it or am I wrong? And is there any correlation between athanasius and lack of dreaming or lack of remembering dreams or different effects when wearing virtual reality headsets or something..or even association's with synesthesia maybe? I'm trying to be insightful and/or clever. .but maybe I'm failing..hope I am not being rude or insensitive..thanks for sharing.
Its pretty inspiring when you learn that one of Disney's lead character designers also has aphantasia.
Legendary animator Glen Keane has aphantasia, and look at what all he accomplished both at his time at Disney and on his own.
i thought i was crazy when i realized as a kid people could actually “imagine” things and have the image pop up in their head. like what? if i close my eyes it’ll just be dark no matter how hard i try to imagine
Wow, can see why some people don't get into fantasy now😂
@@solsystem1342 i literally struggled in school because it was so hard for me to read and have it “play out” in my head like everyone else
If I’m being honest I don’t even understand where people who say they ‘only see black’ are seeing it 💀 I feel like my brain can’t even get around this concept of thinking images(/colors) exists for _other_ people! Thinking and images are just mutually exclusive to my mind- it’s like if someone told you they could see flavors, or hear temperatures. I wouldn’t even know how to imagine it.
I actually used to think people were talking about hallucinations until very recently, and when I finally had visualization explained to me, it threw my whole world for a loop that I’m still honestly struggling with. It just doesn’t make sense.
@@solsystem1342 It’s actually really interesting you say that because I’m the only person I’ve ever seen that absolutely hates fantasy, sci-fi, etc. I don’t understand or enjoy anything I read, period, because I can’t put meaning to the words…but fantasy just adds an extra layer of meaninglessness that I can’t overcome. It makes a lot of sense now if people need images to understand it!
@@jasond.b-w “see black” not in my mind, like literally when you close your eyes it’s black, sometimes reddish if you’re staring at a light but yea i’m just saying i never was able to imagine
Wholeheartedly agree. As long as you know the fundamentals really well and have practiced a lot, being able to visualize what you’re drawing won’t really make a difference. Even if you can, you will eventually learn that art is more of a dialogue with your work in progress than it is simply recreating what you see in your minds eye.
I feel that in the original video, I didn't make this as clear as I could have - but I'm glad you picked up on it! What you said was entirely what I wanted to get across, though perhaps I'll need to take another stab at this topic on my own channel in the future to make that clearer.
We'd love to have you back to talk about it more!
@@UncomfortableI think you did a great job at explaining, I’d love to hear more! I really liked your point about learning to draw things as they actually are rather than how we imagine them to be. That’s something a lot of beginners look past and it’s so extremely important.
I've seen some AI users claim they use AI because they got aphantasia and therefore they could never draw, but there's really no excuses. Uncomfy has it, Glen Keane has it, Ed Catmull has it. No excuses.
Tbh I don't mind ai as long as people behave. But sadly, bad actors ruin everything :(
@@SmitherShrek its alright for brainstorming or when u got artblocked but dont claim the generated art as yours
@@SmitherShrek Yeah, if you use it for reference photos whatevs then it's cool w/ me. But people who just type stuff and claim it's their own art is so unfathomably lame.
Yeah, seen other use having no "talent" as as an excuse as well.
Yup agreed, Aphantasia just mean you have to learn and practice how the world works to draw it because you can’t picture yourself
When I first realised I had aphantasia, I was so confused on how I recognised colours and faces, but can’t imagine them.
U maybe having a Lil imagination prowess
They say that art is talent and hard work, but precisely in desperation and sincerity, the person's hand shines. At least among the people I've seen so far, people who have become pros and are recognized by people and live a pleasant life have gone through such an intermediate process.
I feel this completely. A lot of people have asked me how I’m able to draw and write with aphantasia, and this is the best way I could explain it
With mine if I try to imagine something in my mind's eye - like a red ball I literally feel my head start to get hot.
Check your cpu cooler
@@IamFish_2009 Not enough ventilation.
Invest in more Noctua fans and better thermal paste!
For me it’s my chest, but otherwise same. I literally get angry that I can’t understand what I’m even supposed to do to make this happen. It’s like if someone told you to listen for a flavor- my mind literally starts disintegrating like a AI being given an impossible task and the physical pressure of effort and frustration boils in my neck/chest. I feel like I’m choking. It’s 100% not just you!
@@jasond.b-w that sounds soooo frustrating how do you deal with it
It's really surreal to me to see a collab between Uncomfortable and Proko, but I really like it! Great work!
I don't have aphantasia, but I'm thinking I'm rather close. Whenever I read fiction, it's not vivid at all, but rather dreamlike- formless, but still immersive.
When it comes to art, people I spoke to often had the complaint that they can't put down to paper/canvass what they're envisioning in their heads. I always say, 'neither do I' but also I don't have much of a vision to begin with, just a vague idea. It just takes form as I draw. It always starts rough, then gets a few adjustments here and there, polish... Adjust again until I'm satisfied. That's always been my process. Often times, I go back to my old works and think 'How did I come up with that?'
I find that having a vivid image/plan in your head is, more often than not, a hurdle. It's almost like having an unrealistic expectation. It's more helpful to see what's taking form right in front of you, and adjust and polish it according to the principles you've learned about art and illustration and to your liking. Just have a vague idea of what you want to draw, but keep it formless, like a dream. Since you don't have a vivid expectation, sometimes you'll even surprise yourself. Happy drawing!
Absolutely!
Dude I Completely relate with that!
I’m quite creative and have a vague idea of what I’m trying to draw idk how to explain it but you did a really good job explaining and I just appreciate this post 😄
this is so well said, wow.... 🥺💓
i am also an aphantasia-riddled artist!! i saw a video of someone without internal dialogue and she described almost the same thing i deal with. i can imagine words to describe what im thinking, and i kind of just tell myself what i want to draw. for instance, i cant imagine what a big nose looks like; but i can tell myself that i want a character to have a big triangular nose and i just draw what i think it would look like!
however when it comes to using references i tend to rely on one picture too much since i just cant imagine anything else other than what im looking at 😢
It’s so nice to hear him talk and also what he says resonated with me on another level. Please more from my lil guy.😊
I’ve been trying to articulate exactly this to people for the past 7 years and this video finally nailed it. I could never describe how gravity relates to everything with me and the spatial awareness aspect.
I draw for 4 years and I only recently found out I have complete aphantasia
Every artist I know personally including myself is aphantast. For me personally drawing is something I picked up to communicate the concepts in my head. Because I can't visualize them, I have a hard time to explain them without a sketch
I have the opposite of aphantasia where I always vividly imagine characters in my head to the point where my thoughts are just pictures like when I’m writing something a cartoony me is in my head speaking it
Same
If i remember,that is called Megaphantasia or something like that
@@CupCaike81 hyperphantasia iirc
@@CupCaike81 oh cool thanks for the clarification
@@nej6246 thanks!
I'm basically the opposite. I can easily create any object in my head in 3D space and manipulate it at will. I can also sorta "copy" what I'm actually seeing and add things to it, to the point I generally don't need a 3D grid/guidelines for still art to look accurate (i still sometimes add one though just because it makes it less mentally taxing, and if it's an animation it's important for consistency, especially if I take a break)
But then when I try to actually draw my mental image it often ends up off lmao. Especially if it's not just a sketch- getting a ton of detail right is a lot harder than a basic shape. It feels like my hand just doesn't make the shapes I want, it's got a mind of its own!
For anyone else with this issue: I think of it like I'm using my mental image like a reference. Not exact duplication. This helps me not focus on "it's not like I imagined it" and instead just think about how it's looking in its own right, if it's good then it's good, not "not good ENOUGH" because it doesn't match my imagination
Thanks you so much for sharing this knowledge
I also have complete aphantasia, and had been trying to learn to draw for decades, through many, many starts and stops and frustrations.
Until this year, when something finally clicked! I learned how to draw! As in, the actual process that works for me, and now allows me to "find" the "right" shapes and angles and all that good stuff.
It's one of the hugest accomplishments I've ever made, and I believe it all happened because of extensive work on mental health (I am a childhood trauma survivor with DID, CPTSD and more) helping to slowly repair this broken brain thanks to neuroplasticity.
My point here is this: don't give up! You too can learn to draw! If I did it, with all these disadvantages, you can too! 💙
I recently found out that I’ve been having* prolonged (18 to 100+ hour long) blackouts for my entire life that I wasn’t aware of having, and was diagnosed with DID as well. The differences for me are that a) my complex developmental PTSD isn’t considered to have any realistic functional or symptomatic treatment potential anymore, and b) apart from having complete aphantasia and no imagination, I also have such severe spatial and motor dysgraphia+dyspraxia that I’ve never been able to learn how to write. When I was able to try going to OT, though I can’t anymore because of psych disability, I went through several specialists who all really did the best but ultimately told me I’ll never be able to write and that I’ll always rely on a tablet to type instead.
I have a long history since birth of disabling brain injuries and brain damage from chronic infections, drug intoxication, malnutrition, seizures, and sleep deprivation that have since left me wheelchair bound and I think it’s a large part of what makes my learning problems so severe, but I’m having a really hard time accepting that it’s just not fixable. It’s great to know the why, but it doesn’t make it any easier to stop wishing for it to be different.
It’s really amazing to me to see someone with any potential for a better outcome, because that’s unfortunately not the case for me, physically or even less so psychiatrically. Wishing you all the best x
I can read a book and totally picture the characters, atmosphere, and setting, but I can't close my eyes and and conjure images out of my imagination
Same!
this is the same for me!!
same! is this still count as aphantasia? 😢
i feel like impostor when i say i am one because when described, i can visualize it.
but i also know that i can't come up with an "original" vision and am struggling with something that others aren't...
uh anyways that's that idk how to explain it 😞
@@moonhajung6742
I think yes
I feel like I'm pretty close to Aphantasia on the spectrum and I ended up pursuing the creative arts.
Know what makes a shot look good and composition and all of that is going to get you a lot further than raw imagineering.
*Guys, I used to have that exact problem, but it has MASSIVELY improved when I started reading books, at first I still couldnt see anything in my mind but throughout the year of active reading I started imagining things and also while sleeping my dreams became more vivid and memorable. It also helped with my meditation. So I can't recommend it enough. I strongly belief it's trainable.*
As a fellow person with aphantasia, this video really inspired me to draw
Do samadhi on the ability of visualization and then you will over time be able to see with ur mind as if you using ur eyes
I just see i black void when i try to inagine anything with my eyes closed
That’s exactly me. I can’t imagine anything, even what might seem as the most simplest of things
I can't see my own face🫡
Drawing helps cure it. I used to have a severe case and through years of exercises i improved massively
That's strange, been drawing for years yet never got any mental picture of anything
@@nej6246 takes way longer than 1 year. It took me some 5 or 6 years drawing not copies, but human figures from gesture, structure and perspective
For me if i am imagining something i really have to describe it then only i can imagine it [without actual image] just by my memories and with the help of description
ALSO. Lots of time me and my artist friends tend to imagine a drawing they want to do, and when trying to make it, it will always look different from how your mind paints it. It doesn't matter how much years you drew. I have been drawing for 10 years, and the outcome WILL ALWAYS BE DIFFERENT. But instead of be happy that "you never what you'll end up creating", lots of us start hating their work because "its not good enough". WHEN ACTUALLY IT IS EVEN BETTER BECAUSE ITS AT LEAST DONE!!
I should draw something today arghhhhhhhh
I've never been able to see things in my mind....Sounds like a superpower
As, someone with aphantasia, I don't like that the ability to render images in the mind is used interchangeably with the word "imagination". I can't visualize like most people, but on the contrary, my imagination IS my talent. As for reading books, I may not see it play out like a movie in my head but I'm imagining a lot of the scenes. The best way to describe not being able to see the picture clearly but having the general idea of what it could look like, is probably like when blind people feel faces. When I watched Hunger Games, it was as though I had seen it already because of how good imagined it. Also I saw the movie cast before I read the book so technically this example is more like ai rendering image to image prompt. Normally I just have the prompt text and I'm generating many thoughts that together create a picture I "imagine" but don't have the gpu to render. I guess us aphantasians have hella storage space for thoughts, ideas, voice notes, our continuously live broadcasting inner voice that doesn't know how to stfu.
I have aphantasia but I'm on a different part of the spectrum. If I try to imagine something, I can't imagine it. But when I'm reading a book that I've already seen the movie adaptation of or I'm reading or writing fanfiction, sometimes I can get a tiny image. It's not vivid by any means, and it doesn't happen every time, but it's something. It's because I've seen it before and my brain just plays back a very distant image of the content I've already seen. When I do get these images, I try to hold onto them as long as I can, because I don't know if I'll ever "see" them again.
I have this too and I’ve always wondered if it’s part of the reason I can’t learn to draw simple shapes. I only learned that there are people who can ‘think’ images pretty recently. I used to always think people were describing hallucinations when they talked about visualizing, or just describing thinking in a hyperbolic way. When I first learned about aphantasia I didn’t even think I had _that_ because the article described it as ‘only seeing black’ and I have no jdea where they could be ‘seeing’ it.
It’s such an alien concept to me to try and understand that people can see things that aren’t directly in front of them. I couldn’t even describe what the things I look at every single day, like my bathroom door or my own wheelchair, actually _look_ like. I don’t know what things look like if I’m not currently staring at them. That sounds like science fiction and I can’t even imagine it (I don’t think I have any type of imagination, not just visual.)
If there was a cure for this I’d take it in a heartbeat. I don’t remember what the only friend I’ve ever had looked like, because he died a little over a year ago. I know there are plants on my back bricks but I couldn’t tell you around where they are or what shapes they are. The second I look away from something, it stops existing in my mind altogether apart from the knowledge that it exists. I don’t wish this on anyone, especially people who want to learn to draw!
i have aphantasia as well. when i draw, i have to physically put down something on the page to conceptualize it. i might have to sketch out 5 basic body shapes before i can fully start a portrait. using a reference image of an actual person is also helpful, even if that person isn't who i'm drawing.
Very cool video!!
It's that what it's called? o-o I had no idea that not properly seeing anything had a name 😂 welp, same!
I kinda have it, like, I can imagine simple stuff like 3d shapes, but the moment I try to imagine a drawing it just fades from existence, it's like it's blurred out and locked behind a paywall, idk really how to describe it but I just can't fucking focus on it.
I also have aphantasia and for some reason drawing is not a problem for me. The visuals seem to be stored in some other way in my mind, because I don't even remember my own face, but can recognize mostly anybody (with some training) and can draw things I can't imagine. It really makes me wonder wtf is happening and how it works
I always thought how weird it is that I can't see the image of my loved ones when I want to in my mind didn't know it is actually has a term 😂❤️❤️
I'm really on the very close to aphantasia side where I sometimes try to visualise things and for a fraction of a second, some vague shapes and associations do come up but dissolve into the background before I really _see_ them...
I can look at family pictures and be asked 10 Min later how my parents look and I could not imagine or describe them. Sometimes details come up where I more know than see them, but nothing clear.
But I do have an inner voice. When I read it's always the same voice for everyone but hey, at least I have the wonderful option for inner monologue and discussions with myself :]
I am completely oposite and i can drown in my own mind, watching cartoons inside of it, like a privat subscription. But despite the fact that ye, i find its enjoyable and wouldn't give this skill for anything, i cant say that's its particularly sometimes positive. If i couldn't imagine a story with my characters in my head, i would probably had to go and try to make that story on the paper right away to be able to see it. But I think that i daydream to the point of never actually getting to drawing or writing about these guys, because i enjoy watching them in my head. Its not good and it made me very lazy. While i dont have any addictions, my daydreaming feels like one, because sometimes i cant live a day without my mind cartoons. So i would go to the park walking, listening to music, watching those daydreams instead of doing tasks or spending time on my dream project.
Yes, Yes, I also don't have Aphantashia but when it's Horror it's 4k detail
i have aphantasia and it for sure is harder, but practice does help with imagining the concept and dept of things. I still need to use a reference most times tho lol
Quickly googled aphantasia just to make sure I had it spelled correctly before talking about it with my discord friends and then I come over here and its on the top of my recommendation feed.
Same I know what these things and people are supposed to look like I know them if there information of me but I can’t even picture them at all in my mind it’s just darkness it’s like I’m just verbally describing what I should be seeing in my head but seeing just dark static
I just think of memories I have had with that object, but seeing it? Heck no!
When I have a hard time thinking of something to draw. I draw a box on the page, then I imagine that box is a window. Then I simply sketch what I would imagine myself seeing out of that same window
I’m an artist, I can’t seem to put what I imagine directly to my canvas, because it’s more on the vague side mostly! I would just put down a very rough sketch of the idea or concept, then i stop using my imagination (bcoz there’s no useful infos left😂 I would be struggling if I try too hard) , and just use my skill to make up for the rest. What bothers me is I can’t keep my oc’s face looking the same each time! And I can’t recognize people irl that quickly lol😅 I don’t enjoy reading fiction or novels (I can’t picture what I read) but then I would have very visually detailed dreams! I can see what color and clothes the person in my dream is wearing, and it seems like I picture the space (the streets or building interiors) in 3D😂 One more thing, when I tell people about this, they would ask “then how did you come up with this”? A lot of my inspirations actually come from my dreams!
Aphantasia sounds like such an alien concept to me, who constantly has voices and visuals in my head turned up to 100 lol. In fact it's giving me problems the opposite way, where whatever I imagine is so much better than whatever I can make with my hands
It also causes me to randomly change moods while doing most mundane stuff like walking around because I just start grinning or something at scenarios that play in my head
I can see anything in any pose in any color lol 😂 thumbs for ur tips 👍
Yeah I’m artist with aphantasia it’s really hard to explain because my mind is just a void honestly I have no idea how I draw from memory, have imagination and dreams it’s weird..
I never even thought you could have a visual mind eyes so I guess my brain worked around it? Honestly it’s a really weird concept to explain but it’s awesome to know your an aphantasia artist!
I have the opposite of that, I have Hyperphantasia, and I was doing the draw a box challenge, which is really helpful to learn how to convey that 3D feeling of things, and one day I was drawing, but I wasn't putting down any guidelines, and I was wondering why I wasn't applying the things I learned in draw a box.
I began thinking: "well, if I don't need to draw all the guidelines because I can just imagine them" Then it clicked. Oh, I can just imagine them, and draw a box was made by a person with Aphantasia!
Aphantasia made art such a frustrating experience to me, but I kept practicing hard regardless. I never made as much progress as other people, though. No matter how hard I tried.
Finding out that I have aphantasia has of course helped me understand why I'm struggling so much with art, but it was also devastating to realize that most other people have an advantage that I don't. It also didn't help that all artists with aphantasia that I know of are mediocre at best.
Then about a month ago I woke up and randomly didn't have it anymore. I now have a fairly detailed imagination and can even see moving images in my mind.
Drawing has NEVER been so insanely easy and fun before and I've made more progress in a month than I had made in the entire past year. It's honestly like a super power.
I agree that there are ways to work around this disability, but I highly doubt that someone with aphantasia could ever be as good at drawing as someone with an imagination. I can confirm that it makes a HUGE difference.
EDIT:
By "imagination" I mean "mental visualization" in this context.
Wow that’s amazing you got a mind’s eye one day! Congrats!
I have Aphantasia too but I’m very imaginative and creative also I can draw from memory fairly well, just can’t picture it in my head no idea how I can?
Anyway I have a random question have you dreamed before getting a mind’s eye?
@@RoseLord It's really great to hear that you found a way to draw from memory despite the difficulties. I think that most people with aphantasia develop different ways of storing information in more creative ways than other people. Which can be an advantage sometimes.
To answer your question:
Ironically enough I have always had extremely vivid or even lucid dreams, which I could usually remember in great detail each time. (I think a lot of people with aphantasia have this in common, actually.) Despite having had aphantasia during the day, I could still recall these dreams for a brief moment right after waking up. It was literally like there's film playing in my head.
I've also had experiences where images appeared in my head right before I was about to fall asleep. And I could even control them to some degree. Up until recently this was the closest I've ever gotten to having "mental visualization".
Honestly, I think I've had much less vivid dreams since I acquired a "mind's eye". Or perhaps I just struggle to remember them now.
It's interesting that you managed to somehow acquire a minds eye though, I've never heard of that happening. Must be nice.
But, I think it's still worth it to draw with aphantasia. In fact, I do this because I want to be able to put my vivid dreams on paper.
@@outoforder8791 yeah honestly I’ve been starting to think people who have aphantasia like or want to draw because that’s their only way to visualize but I think that depends on the person
Personally I’ve had vivid dreams and void dreams where I basically just remember the dream as facts like just knowing a bed is there or only important items not any details or colors those dreams my brain fills in the blanks so I thought that’s what vivid dreams were void type with my own touch by the time I woke up so I just thought I didn’t have vivid dreams because I couldn’t visualize as soon as I knew it was a dream but all the details even different angles (if it was in 3rd person) I can remember from some dreams probably means they were vivid now it’s funny I’ve only realized that now 😅 sorry if I worded that poorly
(Also I have a pretty bad memory but I have dream journal since I find them interesting so I can remember the details or lack there of)
@@Fr0stbite1801 oh my god yes! i've always wanted to draw my dreams, too!
but i also have adhd so starting to draw anything at all is _hard_ and keep doing it until finish is even _harder_ ............... 😢
Hah, I don't have aphantasia but I defiantly don't have a vivid imagination. It takes alot of effort to be able to picture what I want, and even then it still isn't clear. Though that hasn't stopped me!
I've always seen more in motion but I can visualize details a tiny bit, just not very well
I can 100% accurate and correctly visualise music concerts in my head
for some reason, i can't imagine something in my own volition when my eyes are closed but i have the most vivid dreams, but at the same time, i can map our literally a 3d object which i can rotate and adjust with my eyes open, almost like i have 3d figure doll placed in my mind
I also have aphantasia, in that, i cannot imagine colour. Its made my peices come out eother really vivid or really muddy. I find it easier to deal in absolutes and have basically learned how to read hex codes. I find it a very fun tool to show to other artists. Btw #B983FF is probably my favourite colour
I have aphantasia but tbh it dosent bother me it actually gave me a buff where I have better memory. (Due to u overriding the original memory everytime u recall it) I still draw an love it but I guess the downsides are that I cant imagine how people will act in a certain way.
I have aphantasia and I don't know if there are levels to it but if there were I would be on top. I can't imagine anything!
mfw i can draw but cannot imagine the most simple thing in my head 😊😊😊
I started being abled to see images with around 16 years old. With 25 now, I am acutally good at it.
I've been trying to figure out if I have this. When I close my eyes, I can't see an actual image (just blackness), but I can... feel it? The problem is, it's really weird to explain and I don't know what people mean when they say they can see things in their minds eye. Like, am I supposed to actually be able to see an image fully? Idk, I'm confused
My theater teacher said i couldn't have aphantasia because im an artist and van describe the things i "see" in my mind. I cant see shit in my head. I think in words and concepts and sounds and vibes. But i cant see anything.
I’ve really only seen artist say they have this like I’ll google a video on it and kid for the time when I look at them there artists maybe it’s more common for us for some reason
For me, whenever im drawing, it is hell for me to imagion what im gonna draw unless im making fanart. The only thing i can draw from ideas is movements. Everytime i draw skmething it has to be in a motion or dance pose. Then i build off of said pose or movement. (This however has made me pretty good at stiryboarding, cause all i see r moving pics) lol probabky not Aphantasia, i can still picture and rember people, but this is a way my brain works twords drawing, and it can both be grand and annoying for me. (Heck whenever im drawing a face, i am activky mimicing said face as much as posible to understand how it would look, which is y i try not to draw faves in public…cause i look insane lol)
yeah I just draw things how they feel spatially, or use some references.
wow, so there are people with this? this is incredible!! I mean, if schools knew this, many of the kids who feel bad about not being able to read a book and imagine the stories, would find a better solution than just forcing them to do it, like the solution in this "problem"!! is good to know this information ^^
Hey, I’ve got Aphantasia and I loved to read as a kid. The lack of visuals doesn’t mean that the imagination isn’t there, it’s more like having a computer without a monitor. If you send a picture to that computer, the data for the image is there, it just doesn’t get translated into visual imagery the way that it does for a lot of people.
@@kit4616 ohhh!! that sounds amazing! sorry, i didnt' really know about this, but your explanation helped me understand better, thank you! ^^
i can read a book and imagine a grand story but can’t see anything
I'm not sure if i have it, I can see pretty much any object, animal etc. but i can't see faces very well, and this only applies to some people that I see in real life, I can still imagine some faces I see in real life, for example I can imagine some of my classmates, and some i can't, but I can't imagine my family at all. Can anyone tell me why? Is it an easier form of aphantasia or something?
I can feel the feeling of having the particular thing but I can’t see it🤷🏽♀️
THE SKY IS BLUE
Oh so that’s why I can never draw what I’m trying to imagine in my head 😂
OMG I THINK I HAVE THAT
I mean, I have a lot of beautiful images in my mind but then I can't just copy them into a piece of paper, it's not easy at all (at least not for me)
I know this isn't a..."politically correct" (???) question or whatever, but do these people not get CEVs with psychedelics? Can psychedelics decrease the aphantasia? I've never had it--I have the opposite--but one 12-hour trip with LSD made my image imagination permanently more accurate and vivid. Just an idea.
Most of the people with aphantasia I know (myself included) are artists. If there is a causation then I figure it would be that it’s easier to draw when there’s no movie in your head.
WHAT IS THE MOVIE THING CALLED
I think I have a related problem. My imagination is very vivid but, my sense of space and symmetry is a mess and I tend to go on autopilot when I draw, so everything I want to do symmetrical-ish I have to draw it over and over. I'm trying get used to draw things as textures and silhouettes because it seems I can't grasp regular shapes
I have a deeply creative imagination, but I lack accuracy in a lot of aspects. I could create an entire face from scratch am any form I have a decent grasp of, but I can’t wrap my head around the specifics of like a nose or lips. I also am horrible at imagining a persons face, from famous people to family I genuinely cannot picture their faces.
I don't have aphantasia, but my ability to visualize things in my head is really weak. I'm working on trying to improve it by practicing
Good luck!
I'm the opposite. Wanna know the down side? I daydream a lot. Since I can see everything so vividly in my memories, I get distracted and waste too much time not actually practicing.
wait i don’t understand can people see like pictures in color like inside of their eyelids? I guess I kinof can but it’s very very dark, in black and white and i have to focus very hard to do it
There are some "aphantasia level charts" you see online. Maybe one of those types will match up with your experience and you'll have a handy way to explain how you see things in your mind's eye.
@@ProkoTV I’ll have a look at that!
like i have the problem that i kind of imagine it, but i cant really see it much, like 2/10 on a good day. i havent been diagnosed with anything, nor i am not really sure if i have it.
I'll say this, the movie in the head thing actually distracts me from completing books. Especially if they get boring.
so Imagination is something you can be born with, but it can also be trained?
Closing eyes isn't nessecary to visualize, it's a myth. I have hyperfantasia and do this with my eyes opened.
In addition, having fantasia doesn't indicate a person draws well. A person can draw like сrар.
There's no correlation at all.
And on the contrary I met some fantastic aphant artists. They just need a lot of references, thats all.
Kim junt gi goated
0:03
How the hell could you even test for that
Im almost afraid you said some people cant see with their minds eye as that would mean a learning disorder not just drawing.. but any concept..
Must be way easier to be an artist if your hyperfantasiac though huh
No, it's not always easier. I'm hyperphantasiac and I have big problems getting started with things because I can just keep vividly imagine so much without limit. Which means I can just keep dreaming without action. And when I've completed a project in my head, the fun part has already been experienced and the action just seems like a chore. Like doing your homework and then losing it and have to start over from the beginning, because actually creating something outside my mind feels just like that most times. So my imagination enables my other issues to just grow out of control.
I'm with Q on this one - while having aphantasia can definitely be discouraging at first, I've found that when it actually comes down to learning how to draw, those who can see the things they want to draw in their heads have a harder time getting around the expectations they impose upon themselves as a result.
I frequently hear from my students, "I can see the image in my head already, why can't I draw it as though I were looking at a reference image?" but the thing is, what they're seeing in their mind's eye is still just based on the same information anyone else would have access to. It's just that their brains are able to fill in the gaps, not with information we can draw from, but filler that makes us *feel* like we're seeing more.
In truth, I didn't always have aphantasia. Some people are born with it, but I developed it in my early teenaged years. Prior to that, I had an extremely vivid visual imagination, and could escape into my mind for hours, so I have the interesting experience of having been on both sides of the fence - though my memory of what it was like isn't the best.
Getting back to the point about how much information we have access to, it creates the impression that there's more available to us, but when we attempt to rely upon it, it all falls apart.
This can be hugely demotivating, and convince us that we simply don't have the "talent" needed to draw the things in our heads. When in truth, we need to learn two core things:
1. Spatial Reasoning - the ability to understand how the things we draw exist in 3 dimensions, and the relationships between them within thay 3D space, on a more instinctual, not-perfect-but-close-enough level. This allows us to build up to the objects and scenes we want to draw piece by piece, from simple to complex. That means considering how to get to our desired result in three dimensions, rather than having a fully formed 2D image in our heads.
2. Design - the understanding of how to flesh out and explore an idea. It's about understanding design as problem solving, and thus learning to identify the "problem" being solved, so we can break it down into more specific, smaller problems, rather than attempting to jump from a vague, ill-defined idea to a finished concept.
It's all about rewiring our brains to perform these tasks that were never necessary for our survival as a species. In that sense, you can think of it as altering ourselves to better approach an activity we were never evolved to do, but that we've always attempted to do despite being ill suited to it. For example, symbol drawing is a common beginner mistake - but simplifying things into their most basic elements makes them far easier to remember, so when you see a flash of orange and stripes in the jungle, you don't waste time considering then pattern, or count how many teeth it's got - you run.
Aphantasia was an advantage for me, once I got past the initial assumption of "you'll never be able to draw as well as you'd like". I didn't care, I still wanted to draw. Once I pushed past those thoughts and pursued it anyway, I was able to tackle it without further expectations. After all, what I expected was failure.
So, long story short - everybody needs to develop the same skills in order to draw effectively, although they can be learned in a ton of different ways and through a wide variety of strategies. We just need to accept that they do need to be learned, and that can only be done through hard work, effort, and time. The more we go in expecting for ourselves, the harder we make it. There are no shortcuts, and no cheat codes.
@@Uncomfortable I agree mostly. And interesting perspective to hear about, you having experienced both.
Images in the mind are fleeting. I don't need to close my eyes to see my imagination, the images I create are "overlayed" what my eyes percieve. Feels a bit like focusing on the stains on a window or the objects behind. You can see both at once, but only really focus on one properly. When looking intently at the paper to see what you are drawing, it's like looking through the window and you lose the image in you mind. I can use the image in my head like a reference, but it's like I have to switch back and forth and recreate my vision while trying to suppress the memory of what I've actually drawn so it doesn't become my new vision, while also trying to compare them with only access to one at a time, partly. And then switching to the vision requires a lot of focus to do it instantly and with perfect details. Or that is the easy part, the hard part is doing it to a globally consistent image that doesn't change as you inspect different parts and doesn't drift over time since my memory isn't completely perfect. But with some energy I can use a vision as a reference. It doesn'y make me able to do great drawings, but I would say it helps me draw well compared to how little practise I have. Enough to impress myself. Maybe not others though, since I have barely any practise :)
I think I would be able to improve my drawing by practising using visions as reference, improving my drawings not by actually learning to draw, but becoming more experienced at maintaining my reference while looking at the paper.
But actually learning to draw the standard way is probably more efficient for most kinds of drawings anyways.
@@CuulX The conundrum I come across with that - that is, the possibility of such visualization being able to be used as fully informative reference as one would use a photograph, or an object in front of you - is that the visualization (or lack there of) isn't actually the relevant factor. It's memory.
The amount of information that is contained in a photograph is *vast*, and human capacity for memory can be impressive, but set against the sheer volume of data that can be contained in a relatively small photograph is hard to compete with. One of the most impressive feats of memorization is the capacity to commit to memory entire stories, a trick that is usually done by having those stories written to song - and such things require enormous training and dedication to recall.
So, what we're really saying in the claim that one can use that information reliably as a piece of reference is that we can commit to memory an enormous amount of information - but not with extensive training, but rather... just as a matter of course. That it can be visualized is just one way of manifesting that memory.
Of course that's not what you're saying - that mental image can be fuzzy, constantly changing, as you stated yourself. What I believe - of course I have no real way of proving this - is that what kicks in is not actually an incredible ability to memorize and recall, but that instead, it's simply the reverse of what happens when we see something.
When we see something, we pick up on the core symbols and process them quicky in order to *identify* the thing we're looking at - so orange, stripes, teeth resolves to big scary tiger monster run run run, as in my previous example. It's not like all we're seeing is so very simplified, but we can't stop and consider every last little minutia of detail. We get dead simple, easily processed inputs, we resolve it to a particular thing, and we act on that.
That happening in reverse would be that we are conjuring those same symbols that we've committed to memory, then engaging the same *feeling* we get in identifying something. If you see a tiger in front of you, you may not be taking it all in fully, but you still get the feeling that you've seen it. If you conjure it back up in your mind's eye, then who's to say you're not simply engaging the *feeling* of seeing it, when really only having limited information to work with?
As we learn to draw - something we do by actually giving ourselves the time to *take in* the full scope of a given object, and something that takes a ton of time and effort to do - what we're really doing is reorganizing what it is we pay attention to when "studying" something. We change what it is we pick up on most quickly, and allow ourselves to glean more useful, relevant information. We learn to prioritize certain kinds of things over others, looking at the major forms instead of getting caught up in the details. We're still remembering a fairly limited selection of things, but in so doing, we can make more efficient use of our limited capacities.
And so, the things we can draw "from our imagination" (or in other words, based on what we can recall) gets more realistic, more accurate, more vivid and detailed. For example, while I don't see anything in my mind's eye, I have developed through years of study a sense of how forms sit in space, how that influences the way in which they're represented on a flat page, how those forms can be combined in that 3D space, and ultimately how the objects I frequently draw break down into their major components. So, I'm able to draw many things from my imagination, not as an act of copying an image in my head, but through a combination of having a grasp of the major elements at play, and using creative problem solving (based on the kinds of relationships and commonalities shared across many different kinds of objects) to fill in the gaps.
While this may be a strategy that worked for me, in my experience of teaching students for the last many years, I've come to see it as being the strategy that is generally used - although that is a strategy people generally develop through many different strategies. So courses and instructors may approach getting to that goal in different ways, but it seems like that ability is what allows us humans to draw things that don't exist in front of us (or at all in this world).
Of course, I can't know for sure. The tricky part of this is that we all have to grasp around for words to describe how we experience things in our own heads, and even draw conclusions based on our own limited understandings of those things. But that's my theory - that when one conjures an image in their mind, it doesn't have any more information to work from, and so all that's left is the human brain's ability to make us feel as though there's more.
@@Uncomfortable yeah what I don't have memorized is generated on the fly to make the image look consistent enough with my memories and thoughts. Actually drawing things usually reveals the holes in your memory.
People can like actually visualize what their art looks like in their head? I didn’t know people could do that. Every time I try close my eyes to try to imagine things it’s just greyscale static. If I try really hard it kinda can look like something, but it barely ever works. I think I need to go check if I have aphantasia…
People see pictures with their eyes closed 😢 bro whaaat
I can visualize very well but I’m nowhere near as skilled. He’s the main character of this story lol.
Im the opposite with anaduralia which is a lack of auditory visionary