Absolutely, but as an empath I struggle with that because I absorb all kinds of energy from people around me, both the positive and the negative. I guess some of us have to re-learn how to block the negative energy from affecting us.
@@HaleyMary Yes, I had this problem too. You can notice the energies, however, you are not responsible for their feelings or behavior. Just use your intuition to keep yourself at a safe distance.
@Happy & Single Celibate Is Sexy Depends of what you seek or know from that same 'Beach', was it day or night, there is much that changes the outcome of so called ‘observations’ (an observation is always limited towards the individual that is taking notes), you may even have scared away wild life that see you and maybe wanted to be on the beach. Even this conversation and your sentence changes that moment in time. You simply cannot avoid time or life for the effect of observation, is like a sensory overload, like a stone rippling effect in silent deep waters. Something will interact and therefore change.
I argued for years and years and couldn't understand why everything was an issue, a crisis, a drama. I thought it was my fault that I was starting a power struggle! I was IN a power struggle that depleted all my energy resources - and I am a high energy person. He drained my very being. Free since June 2017
Yes it is word salads, crazy making abuse with the direct purpose of eroding you, your energy and your self-esteem.. They are evil as they intentionally do this. Vampires, demons.
I’m so impressed with all the people that have gotten out of the toxicity. It’s not easy to recognize it for what it is, because of all the decent/good times.
I feel u 100pcent i feel the same however not out yet -_- child involved and have a hard time.with custody stuff.... not sure i have energy for what would come with putting a final end. Wish i vould just tell him to f**k off
I did this Michele....really tried to stay cool when she wanted to pick a fight but sadly my calmness always led to the same outcome...violence. Me not reacting made her worse...far worse. After 4 years of it....I did something I never thought I would do...I slapped a women...I know it's reactive abuse but that moment haunts me now and was a major reason I left. I don't think anybody can understand what these people do to you unless they've been through it themselves. Thanks for your work.
I understand! I'm a female, and when I started grey rocking my narcissistic partner, it made it much worse, and eventually led to him physically assaulting me so badly that THAT was my last straw. It does work on certain narcissists, but in some cases can be legitimately dangerous. If it is of any comfort, my narcissistic mother groomed my brothers into beating her when they were young (when they getting into their teens). I observed as she would rage at them, rile them up on purpose, push every sensitive button she knew, until finally screaming in their faces telling them to hit her. Eventually, one by one, they did. She provoked them and taught them to do it. I've heard other stories of narcissists doing this in relationships, so that they can come out the victim and claim you abused them. My narc mother always wanted to say she was being abused, especially when it came to people she was abusing.
yes they try to push you to over reaction, I did it once too and threw something after surgery and the phone mysteriously stopped working. Then I had to pay for the window, Now I understand and Narcs treat you bad when you are ill.
I finally said "shut the f up" and that was the last time I saw my father. I should of stopped trying 10 years ago when I asked why I never hear from you (my father) to which ne replied " I don't think of it". (I wanted my son to have a relationship with his grandpa). I still ruminate but try to focus on my own and my son.
@@theoakhills Narcissist don't have object constancy. If you are not around them, you cease to exist in their mind unless they want something from you.
Excellent information. Sad but true. Get out asap but in the meantime, don’t give them your energy. Its very difficult, but take Michele’s advice here. They suck your energy just by being in the same room without conversation!! Get out asap... im also trying.
🤔 Be careful when doing some of these suggestions especially if your narcissist has violent tendencies during their rages. I can't count how many bathroom doors I've had to replace, and how terrifying it was. The only way I found to shut him down during his raging,was to say something equally as horrible back to him, and he would retreat into his bedroom. It made me feel horrible but better than a black eye!
Narc: "You are too sensitive"... Healthy response to that: "..are too sensitive..What makes you say that?".. the focus stays on them and the pressure on answering is on them.. they need to explain.. :-)
Me: "you seem out of control" Narcissist's reply: "no, I'm not. I happy and content, what's wrong with you?" True narcissist will start to gaslight in this case 🥰
If you go into the bathroom, they will trap you there. Yell through the door or even break down the door and damage the house. I have been trapped in small rooms so much by narcissists that just want to prove that they are right so many times that I now freak out when I am cornered. I would say be careful on that. Leaving has been the best answer for me because you can get out and they have no power over you. They might try to blow up your phone but you can shut it off. I have even been chased by car and had to lose them, and once they lose the control and the ability to trap you, they start being nice again. It has helped me to just tune out what they are saying about me, or sometimes I will just agree with them and that really throws them off. Like if they are accusing me of doing something I didn't do, I will just sarcastically say "Yeah I did that, because you know me, that is what kind of person I am." or like when one called me a piece of s... I said "Yeah I am, so maybe you should just get away from me and stay away." and they started doing the opposite by going "I didn't mean that. You're not a pos, you just struggle..." or whatever. A lot of reverse psychology seems to work.
My mom will get me to say something, and than get mad at me for saying it. She says things like “I am not mad.” “ you can be honest with me.” But when I am honest she goes crazy and starts yelling at me. And I am like, well this is why I don’t talk to you.
So true. It’s sadistic. My dad will even double down and start to call out his own bad behavior as if to rub it in, after I’ve told him it hurts, and I wish he’d stop.
@@bobsanderz3005 they don't realise the permanent damage they do to families. It's what they'll be remembered for in generations to come. Perpetrators of incest are often also narcissists.
Holy crap my dad DEFINITELY is JUST pausing!! I even said it out loud recently! "Are you listening to what I'm saying right now or are you just preparing to say what you wanted to from before I started speaking?"
Great video. My mother is a covert narcissist, she is a passive agressive victim. Cannot take any criticism- immediately becomes defensive, upset, and ends up feeding her supply. For example- she really bad mouths her friends- literally tears them apart behind ther back- calling them lazy, stupid, bossy ugly etc. In the middle of a rant a few days ago I said " Mum I feel really uncomfortable hearing the way you speak about your friends, please don't include me in this type of conversation" Her response was to become really upset " I can't do anything right!" " I always get it wrong", then deteriorates into " I might as well be dead" " I'm just a nuiscance to have around", while bursting into tears, sobbing- and of course I feel bad for making her upset. I don't think I have ever had a straight meaningful conversation with my mother- ever.
I feel for you. My ex husband behaves like that too, total victim mode. Try not to believe that you have made her feel bad, she's done that all by herself. My father (82) is very passive aggressive, so much you can literally see the toys getting flung out of the pram.
@@Indyghurl Thankyou - I am sorry to hear things are hard for you too.I feel like a cruel monster when I see myself through my mother's eyes !also in her 80s) and it is ugly. Videos like this are fantastic, because when we learn and become aware we can stop beating ourselves up. I have gone through a time of close self reflection in the past year or two, to understand the part that I play in the negative dynamic. Thankfully I have other close family who can see through the situation, and two amazing adult children- we all have very open, honest loving communication- even when tough things have to be discussed. That image of toys being flung out of the pram is so accurate.
I've dealt with a person who followed me around and tried to start a fight. Every day he got home and tried to pick a fight. I refused. He just got worse and worse until life was hell. Do yourself a favor and if you are around someone like this get away before it gets really bad.
I've watched all Michelle's vlogs and understand all the terms, the language that only exists in dealing with NPD. It gives me the understanding why those who havnt been affected think we're speaking a foreign language. We can't expect them to really get it, nor should they. Most will know it wasn't good for you. It showed. It was not their experience. Conversations and brilliant explanations like this are for us. You have to have the right chemistry between vlogger and viewer. Something just clicks. When with the non narc'd crowd it is your escape to normality. Why this popped into my head who knows. Sometimes spontaneous laughter, relief occurs in private. 3 years Narc free and always will be. A little refresher never hurts.
You nailed it at 4:30 you could have called me "Yo-Yo", considering how many times my loyalty to her, plus that little tiny bit of hope that stubbornly won't go away, made me keep trying. My whole problem was that I never dreamed that someone I loved and who (supposedly) loves me, could ever act like that, unless reacting to something I did wrong. ---> I had no idea those types exist and I never realized that they routinely weaponize the one weak "loop hole" in loving relationships, TRUST. Part of Love is the idea that you don't have to keep your guard up with the one you love, But they use that entry point to start the terrible abuse of your heart. Over and over it keeps cycling without me ever realizing it was deliberate. ---> It would have been real nice if I had been told about Toxic people long, long ago. Kids shouldn't have to find out by trial and error, because sometimes, as in my case, it could take a lifetime of pain to finally understand. Knowing about NPD would have saved my kind soul a whole bunch of pain and anguish that nobody should ever have to endure. ---> We must demand that Cluster B disorders, how to recognize them and how to remove yourself from that danger, be added to middle school or high school curricula immediately, or sooner! (I wonder how many viewers agree? Are there BETTER ideas out there?)
This lady is right about everything she said. I lived it for 3 1/2 years and still do she may be 1200 miles away but she still does what she can to hurt me. It was a nightmare, I could not break free from her twisted ways. She lied, cheated, stole, threatened, tore up everything & busted things up and If you tried to ignore her are say something she didn't like, she would turn it physical she would punch me and say the awful things to me. Said I was gay and that I had STD she spread all she could bad about me. And people believed her I'm from a small community that has a small town, I cant have a date anymore because of all the crap she spread. If I do have a date, she will get wind of it and she will call and threaten the woman I went out with. I tried everything but beat the crap out of her, many said that is what they would do. I told them that is what she wants me to do so she can get me in some serious trouble. She isn't around anymore she moved 1200 miles away but she isn't completely gone her abuse still lingers. And after all this, I have lost who I was before nothing seems to excite me. I don't want to get out and find a female friend I'm afraid I will find another one like she is. They can turn your world upside down and they scar you inside out. I will never be the same and I can't look at people like I once did. They can suck every bit of anything good out of you and make you feel hopeless.
By coincidence I found out about this method too. My narc backs down when she hears me saying that 'she's now being evil again'. In the beginning of our relationship she told me that she feared something inside of herself. I'm now glad that she told me. I didn't realize that this info would be a lifeline when her anger is starting to spin out of control again. We have a kid. So I need to 'handle her' until my exit pike arrives. Greetings from Denmark to all of you survivors. And to you Michele: thank you so much
I think that she may be dealing with BPD traits. Narcs simply don't say that they fear something within themselves. They won't even imagine that there's something going on within themselves. That's what makes them narcissistic. They project it onto others. If your wife is dealing with BPD traits, then she needs help. It is not advisable to use her own fear against her. Though people with BPD are mistaken to be narcs, they have empathy and they can get mentally healthier with some help than the narc who thinks they are perfect.
Lakshmi Dev thanks. I'll take your advice into consideration. Perhaps I misspoke when I stated that she feared something inside of her as if it was something alien to her with its own existence. I suppose what I mean is that it is simply dislikes what she sees in the mirror when I hold it up. I would rather say that this indicates that she is not 100% narc but rather that she has narc traits in part of her personality that she's somewhat aware of (in calm periods). When she's angry she's goes for the kill 100%
@@martin5088 Okay. Only you know what you're going through and you know the best. Take care of yourself and your child. Mental health is very important.
Lakshmi Dev thanks a lot. It's very difficult to choose how to handle narc.attacks because on one hand pulling back- and shutting off emotionally is not healthy and on the other hand you don't wanna get into the pit with a narc. So what I try to do is stay calm and discuss on the meta plane her need for personal attacks. It is somewhat successful - especially in front of 3'party where she's afraid to prove my point by losing control. 1-1 she's immune to any sort of "meta-criticism" of her personal attacks and her blind monopoly on truth/moral behavior. 1-on-1 she will just shield up and steamroll any opposition with emotionally violent diversion tactics. When she launches personal attacks on me- or my son I have to speak out even when he's around. Sometimes my grip slips and I yell in return. I know the situation is not healthy for my son but I fear the alternative is worse: He'll internalize on an unconscious level the abuse he was exposed to as a kid and live a life based on anger-, shame-, guilt, self loathing etc. I have been struggling myself with a compliant, anxiety-ridden mother- and a dominant, boundary-transgressive father and I know how gravely this affects you. I hope and pray I've made the right choice for my son. Only time can tell. At this point in time there's no way out
Another extremely difficult thing when dealing with narcs is that you CANNOT appeal to their heart- and a common desire for peace and consensual agreement. They will always try to optimize only their own situation. This has been so difficult for me to handle. They ONLY respond to negotiation efforts IF their unwillingness to negotiate peacefully has severe consequences for them. I have to bend my personality backwards in order to present such ultimatums because it feels like an all- or nothing confrontation every time. And you worry that such ultimatums will only make the next "negotiation" even more brutal. It's scary to deal with such people in your intimate family life and you truly feel your partner is an adversary as opposed to an ally.
I wish I saw your videos 20 years ago, or so, with my narc mom. They are excellent, and right over the target! I wasted tons of energy trying to get my mom to understand any single point I'd be trying to get across to her. She was impossible. Then I'd lose it and appear to re-earn my scapegoat status of "identified patient" of the family. I still over explain myself to folks up to this day. Thanks for all you are doing.
After creating the drama and chaos, and the normal/healthy minded person reacts in rage, the Narc would usually pretend to want peace and reconciliation, to then shift blame and look like the victim.. So they wouldnt use profanity or be disrespectful. Their true nature comes out if you just simply ignore them or even treat them kindly.
Great video but TL;DR on my part: Don't ever say "this hurts me" to a narcissist, it's just ammo for them, my advice is record them. It's helped me immensely. 5:30 My Father's lover once said that they will proudly live out of my Father's wallet for the rest of their lives, and there's nothing I can do to stop it. Seconds after claiming I was lazy. This coming from an unemployed, stained pajama wearing woman who hasn't worked, cleaned, or cooked anything beyond frozen "health" food in well over a year at this point. Who lays around all hours of the day and night popping pills and watching t.v. As her cats shit and piss on everything. Leaving hard black stains on every single step of the stair case. Instead of cleaning, she's given them two separate dedicated rooms, covered head to toe in cat waste. I now know this is a projection of their own short comings. But at the time I just could not understand. And engaged with the nonsense, very angrily. To a narcissist you are simply all their bad traits. You're not human, they don't empathize with you. Do not try any regular heart to heart shit with them. Don't say things like "look I'm trying to see where you're coming from, please explain" You'll get an hour of word vomit, meant to confuse. My personal solution was buying a audio recorder, and not even speaking to her until it's running, taking it out and starting it in an obvious manner and staring them in the eyes as I do it. Then remaining calm. That's the hard part. Narcissist's are unique, but it worked for me, in my personal situation the only power she held over me is to use my Father as a weapon against me. And as long as I have proof I didn't say anything out of line she has nothing. This helps specifically with the narc tendency mentioned at 13:00 to follow you and just keep talking. Record them, make a phone call, walk into public, they are worried about what the world things of them for some reason still. Now she's gone on to escalate and claim I regularly assault her, so every time she does I just say "that's a crime, I'm going to call the police and get an alibi" and walk right to my father and explain that the police now need to be involved at 3am over yogurt because she can't control herself. No tactic is below them, my narcissist once insulted me for minutes straight, and the second I switched from anger to bemusement and started saying "oh ya what else ya got" and egging them on, like "good one, how original" they straight up screamed bloody murder and ran to my father claiming they where scared of me. This is kindergarten shit. Don't engage with it, record it, and leave the area. Don't speak to them, you're not human to them, don't extend a unrequited curtesy they don't deserve by trying to be reasonable. In dealing with a narcissist you must kill your own emotions. Become hardened, calculated and cold, closed off even. It's common for therapists to say horse shit like "oh tell them that what they said hurts your feelings". Never tell that to a narcissist, it's fuel for them. As she said at around 11:00, redirect it on them, just say "wow you're off the deep end right now" or such. Laugh. It will still enrage them, but never tell a Narc what gives an emotional reaction out of you.
A lot of times I say OK OK OK OK yes mmhmm yea OK now I have a headache I can’t do this right now will do this later and like you said I go into the washroom and close the door whatever it takes to stop him and then hopefully there is no later. Until he finds the next subject. A great distraction I have found is we got a puppy that he is so in love with because the dog will do whatever he says and it really helps distract him. I wonder if others have gotten a dog that helps distract their spouse?
You have the very best videos! You have helped me so much ❤ and when I need your help, you are a click away and I have watched your videos numerous times throughout the years! Thank you kindly for bringing hope and understanding!
it's not just narcy's monologue... ex. narc was narc used talk on the phone to friends, lovers, family members for 2-3 hours on purpose let me hear his indirect verbal abuse and emotional blackmail by critisizing, mocking, bullying me to them with them and actually showing himself as personality that I never knew:gossipers, liar, cheater, cowardly... rude, sadistic, paranoid... I learn sleep with blocked ears by my fingers coz it was too hurtful, scary, giving panic attacks, insomnia... till I study narcissism and learned that he did it on purpose and did enjoy his sick behaviour I decided make effort not to feed him supply, don't give him pleasure... it took nearly 2 years... still learn to remember that narcs never changing just multifaced chameleons...
This may seem like a random comment among many others, but I want to thank you. I gave it a try, and it was very successful. It allowed me to defuse the conversation quite fast and I was able to return to my online studies without having to endure further accusations. It kept going a tiny bit while I was leaving the room however I did not let it get to me, so yep, no supply! I found your channel today by looking for tips, and I must say you make the most helpful videos I have found by far. Thank you so much. Again, I am one person among the thousands watching your videos, but know that what you do is helping many people out there. God bless you.
I feel like this is so important for men dealing with narcissistic women because if u react poorly people are so much more like to side with the women in the situation and not comprehend that women can do these types of things.
I was trying to prove I'm a good person to people and only making myself look crazy in the process. Thank you for waking me up to this. You helped set me free in many ways
Thank you. These are the things am doing now. Am grounded in my reality. I have stopped engaging and reacting once I realize this is a toddler in an adult body. Moreover, when you get all heated up, angry and argumentative you are only giving narc supply. So happy now. Living my best life.
Great video! A lot of advice on narcissism always ends with "go no contact". Not very helpful if you currently don't have that option. Right now I still have to endure my narcissistic father. If he is in a bad mood he'll just scream, threaten and generally escalate until he gets his way. If he is in a good mood and notices that he is logically losing he'll resist for quite some time with the tools you mentioned in your video. But if you stick to your guns he'll eventually walk away. Success right? Wrong. Next time you meet him he'll bring the same topic up again as if he wasn't proven wrong. So you can fight all the fake arguments and gaslighting again. Usually then I just let it be. Arguing once was already draining enough.
My best advice is just laughing 🤣 at them and walk away 🤣 to me there's to much arguing or drama with the narcissist, I see just walking away and laughing 🤣 at them, myself I don't even want to talk to them, just me, I had a covert narcissist that I finally walked away from,so there for I don't even want to talk to any of them, great video Michelle.
After a 4 year struggle to communicate, I evolved to employ what you describe and you illuminated it perfectly! His recent response was to become so frustrated and to leave (again) and his intent is to emotionally hurt me. Im not really paying attention to his tantrum, he is blocked, and he will be dismissed from my life. He really does have this fantasy that I am the crazy bitchy irrational, hurtful one, which is really way off. It’s that I don’t kiss his butt! This is ridiculous! He is hurting himself! His loss. Oh well. I feel loss but relieved. I’m sorry he couldn’t be normal and I have to now endeavor to heal and stop loving him, and self-reflect about how I was vulnerable to this, but his dysfunction is not my problem and I can’t fix it. He thinks I’m out chasing a million other guys. Can you say “projection...”? I’m done being hurt by that sad creature....
Thanks so much for this video. I have watched a LOT of videos on narcissism and most do a good job of explaining what it is but lacking in the exact steps that I need to take to preserve my sanity. I have been married to a narcissist for 16 years and I always thought that if I just showed him enough love and understanding that everything would be okay. I became disabled 3 years ago and things got much worse. I felt like I was losing my mind. I lost myself. I was a completely different person. Thank goodness I know now that I am not crazy and I can recognize what's going on and quit beating my head against the wall! I am elderly and disabled so I am basically stuck where I am but much better equipped to deal with him.
I pray for Gods strength to continue to empower you.. the Lord is faithful and will strengthen you and guard you against that evil narcissistic spirit. I wish I would have known about this years ago. It's been going on and I didn't even know what it was. I thank God for the knowledge and wisdom and understanding we have today. God will bless you and strengthen you and love you. His love comes on the inside. My heart goes out to you so my prayers go up for you
I became weary and worn down by her constant arguing. I made the conscious decision NOT to argue with her and thus gave the narcissist nothing to 'push' against. She tried to provoke me with criticism and goading but I remembered the movie line "I shall bend like a reed in the wind". Eventually, she went ballistic and punched me in the face. My tactics certainly hit a nerve
My Mum lives with my narc father. I recently realized that she's been giving him the narc supply as a survival method and to minimise the impact on her physical health. It is very hazardous. However, I'm not ever going to judge her for taking the path of an enabler. I've been sick for a few weeks after confronting him. I'm still not immune to the narcissus abuse so instead of worrying about my Mum, I must work on myself. It is painful to have been brought up in a narcissistic family. Thank you for your healing voice🙏
Thank you. I've only recently in my seven-year relationship with someone I believe to be quite narcissistic that I have learned not to be reactive. So redemptively empowering. This resonates. 🙏
Yours is the Best advice I heard in a long time. ... I would add, if you go into the bathroom, take a phone so you can call for help. My raging son kicked the locked doorknob, and the doorknob flew off across the room and smashed the base of a pedestal sink. My head had been on my hands , bent over my lap in the path of the doorknob an instant before. I would have been killed. HE DENIES IT HAPPENED. GOD HELP US.
Grayrock all day. Then grayrock some more lol. Don't argue with a person who has no intention of ever even trying to understand you smfh. Evil... Lol... Don't enable it!
I enjoyed your observe not absorb video. Their mindset is your wrong and reactive anger means your attacking a good person. Narcissist wants fuel emotion + or -.
“Put the focus on them, “that was a mean thing to say” or “you’re raging really bad rn” just that one statement” GENIUS! I’ve begun doing this subconsciously a bit before I found this video and it all put it in perspective. Thank you so much!!
My narcissistic mom just texting me, and I am thinking yes, nice to hear from you but, bye bye, I just know what is coming so I can not go there anymore, I have to stay no-contact
So hard to have a mother that is filled with a narcissistic Jezebel spirit. I will pray for you as I pray for myself and I will pray for our mothers. To think of how miserable they are then again narcissist don't feel their own pain because they put it on to us. They need God. And I need the Lord to strengthen me & guard my heart. She said that if you want to know what a narcissist thinks of them self listen to how they speak to us. I'm thankful I'm learning these techniques to not converse with them. And when I do simple techniques I putting the focus back on them, their behavior.
What if you do all that & they continue ranting on....I have tried taking a shower, he kicked in door because I didn't want to engage anymore & finally provoked an abused response from me....I started crying & screameI at him just to leave me alone.. he told me to stop cause he didn't want me to get him in trouble. I have never felt so out of control.
Here is a kind of supply I have barely seen addressed so far. There can be the mask of loving animals, and one’s own pets. But I have heard a narcissist admit that people like himself display sadistic treatment of animals in secret. Animals can be a source of narcissistic supply, just like people. And maybe better in someways, because they can’t tell anybody what happened. Please don’t leave your pets alone with anyone you even suspect is a narcissist.
My mom is like that she can create drama and try to call the attention just for the sake of it... Well, guess what without me... As i am 0 contact 6 months already... My poor other siblings got stuck with her their whole lives, but not me...
All very good advice. If you must communicate with these toxic type of people then respond instead of react, limit your contact to the lowest common denominator, it's never a conversation and it's always an argument so don't engage if you don't have to. Hopefully they will find you boring and leave and then you can consider yourself lucky.
They generally dont argue atleast not in an engaging manner. They aggravate and attempt to apply logic by concern but it's disjointed reasoning, unfitting to the whole of the situation by agenda. Their reasoning centre isn't formed to be constructive or effective, atleast not as strong as has developed their default manipulative ability or intent to control. They act aggrieved if to concern them upon a matter nomatter how simple. There is often a huge cognitive gap here between the two wings of strength and it kind of keeps them swirling around to figure. Like a humming bird there is a chance here to use the beak and extract all the nectar but that's you're sweetness they invalidate and to absorb. Then you get the passive walk past antagonistic style relationship arguments where you might as well be less than strangers. Intended really to keep you ruminating for eons about a five second interlude with them that's could be regarded by design to unstitch the fabric of your mind. What do they even want, validation is superficial in the even of the content exchanged, are they just crying and clawing in the situation to find a tit or do they really aspire to be adulting? Shyte, when it comes to being grumpy ourselves, where do we go surrounded by closed walls? We flourish in crevices of our own void puttying up the cracks. Being human we expect to engage when it's not even worth the effort. This is why we learn that narcissist is not the best source for human engagement, it evokes a person we don't want to be. We learn it would be simply better to punish ourselves if that should mean being alone. Then the narcissist would prefer to cheer us up for a while when in truth we'd rather slog them to help, wasting our previous resources. 😕
When I watch these narcissism dedicated channels, I feel like there is no more 2 people arguing about something. There is always a victim. As long as you are calling the other person a 'narcissist', you are good.
Thank you. You explain things so well. Very clear. This is helpful for those of us with BPD’s who have narcissistic behaviors. DBT techniques are useful for me because living long term with a person with these behaviors creates PTSD symptoms. Keep up the good work Michele.
I’m sorry for anyone who’s dealt with this behavior for years and years. I’m so lucky I’ve only had this narcissistic friend for a few months. The best part of knowing someone like this is learning what a narcissist looks like.
This is so sad and hard to believe! But I believe it cause I’m living with one and it’s driving me nuts!! It’s like they aren’t human! My grandmother used to say the Devil comes in the form of man....yes indeed!
Wow! This was excellent! You are graced to teach this. A year ago I would not have been able to comprehend nor receive this message. I would have still been trying to reason with the Narc using standard arguing techniques. My major breakthrough was shifting my mindset and how these people thought. They don’t argue or debate for understanding. They argue for ego supply. Is not to sow peace but, confusion. Before I woke up, I didn’t realize that I was using this tactic effectively when I was arguing with these types of people. When I got frustrated but I was still grounded I would turn their behavior back on them as shine the mirror on them. Worked like a charm every time. As a matter fact, they would leave upset angry and frustrated - those same very feelings that they were trying to inflict on me.
In my marriage which is over, there was a day that her (wife) inquired why don’t I show emotions. This during one of thousands of circular arguments. It was my peaceful demeanor that I would attempt to protect. Well I lost it...the coffee cup I was holding was a thick heavy ceramic mug full of coffee. My reply was “ oh uh want to see emotion do you?”at which point I hurled the mug from the living room into the kitchen. It exploded. “ How that?” I asked..... That response surprised me as I’ve never been pushed to the brink before. Thus opening a pandas box that I did not know existed. I told her I will be a mirror to her. So watch out!! I was so sucked in to her web all I could see was hopelessness . I’m out and doing ok.its been hell more than anything. I’m divorced now for over ten years now. It’s not entirely over yet. But I’m healing and peacefully face each new day.
I literally started laughing because this is exactly what I’m dealing with I feel so much better I felt so dramatic and wring for trying to express things and now I feel 👌Thank you so so much
There is a healthy fight response. Healthy anger, that marks healthy boundaries, your healthy no's. Anger and fight response have healthy function and purpose. Its the human selfprotective instinct! :)))) As far as ive learnt and integrated into my recovery. Im not in a relationship with any narc, but they happen to be in support groups that i attend. Thats why its important for recovery and healing to be narc abuse informed and also trauma informed. Because a lot of narcisistic people have trauma and will go to support groups for trauma, but continue to do their abusive things there. An empath sharing there thinking the guidelines will be honored and the narcisitic person will sometimes invalidate if what is shared is too much. After all a lot of them have not confronted the reality of how abusive they are . Its unethical to have them recovering in a room with empaths, or codependets they will try to do their abusive dynamics. I agree with the part of this video, they will blameshift, and gaslight. Staying in ones truth is important. Exactly, taking a mirror to them, calling out their double standards etc. Im 3 years in healing and commited to keeping healthy boundaries, i started with looking at my childhood trauma and then realized my dad is a narc, and also having dealt with narcs as adults, now commited to staying in my truth, in my selfworth, in my reality , in my healthy bill of rights to be me and express me and myself and take my space, and grieve and be human and imperfect, and live, with out the toxicity of narc abuse! They want a reaction , little of them can have a serious conversation and a one on one like that, they will try to escape accountability, blameshift, project, gaslight do whatever, stall the conversation, word salad , do whatever..... I just say this because ive been there, and the toxicity is like bullshit. Now im able to see the redflags really fast. And even in their energy. I try to keep healthy boundaries and communicate about things that seem important, or injustices (mind you in group settings cause i aint in a relationship with a narc on a one on one, because they only need supply and are abusive, they can't do reciprocity) if theirs blameshifting or other things thats just my signal that it isnt a healthy relationship. And i look to keep healing and find beautiful empathic connections:) I did tell once to a borderline woman like i think i dont need to explain more because i feel like im overexplaining, and let that sit with her lol , i think she lost it. But ive gone as far as calling people narcisist to their face if they're being overtly abusive in safe spaces like support groups for trauma, and they try to escalate things, or use blameshifting or stuff there, and there abuse is obvious we do need trauma and narc abuse informed recovery.
I’ve been with my bf so long and have learned he’s a narcissist and gaslights me so much and tells me I’m the one that has issues that now I’m starting to think I’m the narcissist & I might be the one with the issues 😢 but I’m the one that does everything that’s on the healthy mindset list and when he pushes far enough to break me he’ll start saying ‘see, you’re the crazy one look at you’ and after I get so worked up he’s the one walking out or going into the bathroom and putting up that barrier as you said to get away from me because I’m toxic
Yip, when he calls you the crazy one and then walks away, he's been given the supply he's needed. It allows him to walk away totally believing he's the victim. You are not the abuser, find out about reactionary abuse. I use the term abuse here lightly as I'm not sure what to use. In a healthy relationship you'd be able to respond to the op, with a narc that's impossible. Grey rock as much as you can, but the only way to stop this merry go round, is to get off. You don't deserve to be treated this way. Me ex now says he can no longer read me. Read that as he can no longer control me. Ending the relationship is hard, takes enormous strength to stay with an abuser, so don't ever feel you're weak.
This is such an important conversation because there's no one way to do Gray Rock. It depends on the type of Narc and the situation. Great descriptions, examples, and goals. Excellent video, Michelle. Thank you!
Bright analysis Michele! 👌💪 Always remember,,, what can be underlying of the malignant narcissist is a significant cluster of hypocritical ideation. All that drama creation is really disorganised ideation, a muddle of expression we try to interpret just to be reasonable as understanding beings. People tend to respect more for the narcissist who is pure in their game, presentation of 🙏 not the one who is regularly debasing of others concerns, feelings or wishes. If they are their own sidetrack then that's fine, but that extension of holding you as accountable for all their negatives is entirely punishing and unfair. That's the delusion of grandiosity. Your presentations are always upbeat and potentially ammusing as well as for the serious nature in its conetation. ...gained insight as perspective, what a wary weapon in defense and if chosen, oppositionally. 🙏
Wish I would have found your channel long ago. I think this is the best channel on this topic. So well explained! Can't thank you enough! Are u survivor?
Omg. My sister is THE same as this... I was always debating debating with her because she is sooo annoying when i start being cold or criticizing her..! And i was then wondering how to avoid an endless fight, but now i see i am not alone in this type of abuse. Thanks
Actually, my mistake was that i did not tell my ex-girlfriend how i felt about a hurtful thing she said or did. Because i expected that it was obvious that she already knows that she had hurt me. If somebody punches you in the face, you do not explain how exactly that hurts and where. And that’s how i approached a situation in which i was being yelled at or told to shut up or otherwise slighted and jabbed. Instead i reacted with a sort of assertive anger. I tried to interpret the issue back to her in an attempt to find out what it is that angers her so that i can avoid that anger in the future. The problem was that these attempts were met with denial and the accusation of attacking her for no reason. For example, basically any time we left the house and had some sort of organizational thing to do, such as grocery shopping or picking a restaurant or getting a bus, she sooner or later threw a temper tantrum or excessively complained about the situation, something not going her way, or directly targeting me with her anger. It happened even when just having breakfast or being on a walk, anything. I tried to find the patterns and then asked her if that is what she wants. For example, when she yelled at me for not having arranged dinner for her the time she wanted to eat, even though we had not discussed when or what to eat, i concluded that she would like to plan dinner and eat at a stable time of the day, so to avoid that. Or when she did not forgive me that i enjoyed a museum she chose slightly less than her (for the sake of simplicity, let’s say she would have given it 10/10 and i would have said it is a 7/10), when she bullied me for not agreeing to a specific trip suggestion she made, when she lashed out at me several times for taking her to a friend’s place to hang out one day, how she did not enjoy it and it was blamed on me, and what i did wrong that day, and yelling at me on a walk for telling her something “obviously uninteresting” - i concluded that we have a conflict of interests and that before we meet again, i would like to know what to do about it so that we would avoid these silly fights (i phrased it diplomatically, but actually the problem was indeed her unleashing anger on me over possibly anything). Her reaction was taking my attempt to resolve this issue as an attempt to ditch her and betray her, reacting in complete shock about how i could possibly conclude that we have a conflict of interests. That puzzled me, because it was as though she completely disregarded all the tantrums and yelling whenever we were slightly disagreeing or whenever we actually did anything together. I had skipped the step of explaining to her that her yelling and complaining is hurting me and that i interpret it as a clear indicator of dissatisfaction and as it happens very frequently, we seemingly have some differences that demand for resolution, because i obviously do not want being yelled at as the default mode whenever we go out together. It appeared that the reason my attempts to have a conversation about the problem failed is that i naively skipped this step of explaining to her such basic laws of cause and effect in interpersonal affairs and that i was hurting and wanted to find the key for it to stop. It still bothers me even after years of zero contact with this person. What if i had just been wiser back then and able to use the communication skills and knowledge about narcissism that i acquired by now through videos such as this? What if i could have just been a little more vulnerable and detailed in describing how i am suffering from her anger? I was in a war zone, attempting to negotiate for ceasefire, with the other party denying that any shots had been fired in the first place. And i had failed to show my injuries as evidence, assuming that would not be necessary.
Please don't beat yourself up over what happened. You didn't know then what you know now, and that's okay. No one goes around the net looking-up facts about narcs unless they're dealing with one, and it takes time to even recognize that the person you're dealing with is a narcissist. What matters is that you're free now. So free your mind from the guilt, none of that was your fault, you were a rational person dealing with a completely irrational one. Stay strong.
Yes. i had a friend that liked to explode basically act agitated. And I say white, she says black. It would escalate and then I had to stop. I need by peace, cant be her supply for her anxiety and need to push it off on me. No way, no thanks. If you tried to tell her to watch these videos, she would call you a narc. They know they are diff than other people but they forever stuck=demos got them, they let them in to forget their true self. they can play nice but not for long. they must upset/shame you to literally survive
You just described my relationship. It's not you. You couldn't have made it stop. It would have gotten worse and worse and worse with her too. Believe that.
YES my current Narc follows me around the house with that monologs where he's insulting and criticizing me. When I ask him to leave, he continues to speak like this AND TAKES HIS EXTRA PRECIOUS TIME TO LEAVE.
I Ignore my husband's narcissist rage. His verbal abuse is annoying, I just tell him that's not nice. I don't know where his rage and anger comes from, I suspect it was his dad. Not sure tho. (What I know for sure), I'm just fine.
After all the abuse I suffered from thinking my wife is from orphanage so let it go, I finally realized no excuse to beat and threaten your spouse and now she's out the house she I have a restraining order. I'm learning to go NC or grey rock with 2 kids to protect and keep safe... Let the Lawyers talk through the divorce...😊
Thank you Michelle, You have helped me a lot in this last year. Im coming off disability and almost able to leave. I am having trouble when he behaves in the most disrespectful way and then is so cruel to me for being hurt. I practice respond vs react, setting boundaries, even gray rock....but when he acts like I'm the bad guy he he does something awful, I lose it! I say things I have never said to another human ever, I don't even know who I am anymore. I have all the info and then some, yet I still lose my sh*t. I do plan doing life coaching when I go back to work so that I can move past all this abuse, but I need to get through these next couple of months. I feel like I'm missing a key point to help me deal with this. I fear I may lose my mind before getting out!
He is like an alligator. It is just what he does. Try to remember that if he is rude, and I will pray you get away. Stay away from alligators, they bite. It is not personal, you did nothing wrong. Someone else will see you for your amazing self but nothing wrong with just being alone with yourself.
Practicing observe don’t absorb is so difficult, you can do it for a few minutes and say “you are allowed to think that way as I still allowed to my perception of things” and leave to the bathroom or make up an appointment and leave, because if you observe for too long without talking they get bored and start pretending that they empathize with you and they would say something like “what I need to do to make things better?” and then you think they are finally empathizing but NOT that question is just a BAIT..after you answer they start lashing out to you because they didn’t like the answer to their very “empathic” question. At that moment they doble down. Don’t fall for it, observe for a minute or two and leave the area or even better leave the whole place that way they will see that they cannot get thru your skin ANYMORE.
The devalue stage was one of the strangest things I ever went through in my life. I always had a plan, that I rehearsed it over and over and tried to think ahead of the arguments....it never worked when she would show up, things went different than i thought..totally irrational, then I experienced Narcissistic Rage or an almost disassociated anger/deep sadness-helplessness. I never went through anything like that before and it was a really difficult time. Great video with some excellent points.
I told my brother.. Oh, i am talking on the phone... I will eat later... He threw me the plate of spaghetti in my back... He broke a swing chair on my sister s arm... So, I don t agree with this technique, unless you already have a safe place to go for good, or you already called the cops and sent them to jail, where they belong... They interprete what you are saying like... Look at her, she thinks she is better than me... Again, each case is different, however, let s not underestimate these people are criminals without boundaries... Better to simply go... Otherwise, it escalates... I remember one of the best comments i have read... 'you are not part of the solution... You are part of the problem'... Your presence disturbs him.. It s time to run and fine a safe place where he can not find you or manipulate you back🏃♀️🏃♂️🚮
The last year has been me working hard to heal from the narc abuse I endured from my ex for a decade. He is incredibly high on the narc spectrum. Covert and malignant all at once. So towards the end when I was finally understanding what I was dealing with and I’m re fighting was pointless. I’d say that. “ I don’t want to fight” and I’d lock myself in the bathroom Which was the only possible escape. But it ended up not being an escape at all but rather a trap or prison from which I could not get free. Narcs have no shame and no shit off switch so he would then berate me through the bathroom door for literally hours on end. Me silent. Him either raging or calmly assaulting me and as most of us know… there was no effective tactic to freeing oneself from the terrors of a true narcissist. The only answer is radical acceptance and getting the hell out of the relationship. And even then it’s never really over, at least not for me bc I have a son w my abuser. Narcs are walking nightmares.
They say that "It takes two to tango." True. However it also takes two to have an assault or a murder. Both parties are NOT equally culpable. One can be guilty and the other innocent. "It takes two to tango." Is not the entire truth, in fact it can and often is used to justify cruelty and abuse.
This is maybe a point where male and female advice differs - females might be focused on how they feel and the narcissist is focused on them and no one is focused on the narcissists bad behavior, but as a male when I heard that part I thought that sounds not the right way around. As a male I think a male can potentially end up focused on the bad behavior of the narcissist - and actually lose track of our own own emotions and looking after our own emotions during it. This can lead to getting really angry and frustrated, which the narcissist likes of course. Women might (this is an estimate) generally already keep track of their emotions and tending their own emotions so they might just need to focus on observing and not absorbing. Male advice might actually need to be to not observe so much and to track and tend their own emotions more rather than spending so much attention on the narcissists behavior. A male possibly needs to be careful to not abandon the tending of his own emotions when running into a toxic person. Anyway to me it didn't feel the right way around and that's a guess as to why - men might be more observing focused already, but this can be to the detriment of attending/absorbing their own feelings during an encounter with a toxic person. Women might generally need to just observe more, men might generally need to observe less.
Maybe watching ross rosenberg’s explanation of the observe don’t absorb technique would help you understand the process. The point is to not engage with them or not get involved in the argument at all. It is actually to protect your own emotional status.
@@kaajalhirji3365 I get the idea, but ultimately I'm saying that while some people will be focused on how they are feeling during such an encounter, some other people wont be focused on their own feelings much at all and are just focused on the problem the narcissist presents - and that could have issues with it as well. I'm basically raising that for anyone who resonates with it - sometimes people need different techniques.
@@cairosilver2932 Yeah its really good to be indifferent. Say they are bashing you saying you have ad credit we cant buy the house I want. Dont react negatively or think to yourself, It is interesting that he would look up credit score. It seems like he thinks I am irresponsible. I wont defend myself or make excuses plus that will make feel more judge. A nice bf/gf would not throw that in my face. (All the while gathering ore info on the narc and how mean he/she can be. I am gonna remember this dig and wont feel bad when I leave him) The doesnt understand why his dig did not get a reaction so he repeats and adds another insult, always upping the ante for a reaction. You say, yea I wish my credit was better, oh well.
And when they pause they say... "Are you done now..?" Always interrupt you but if you do that you are not letting them talk and if you say that when they do it they want you to hurry up so they can say their point/ideas etc.. They raise their voice and claim they aren't and always say you love to argue and start and make them argue everyone makes then argue when they said they aren't arguing or loud etc. They always discredit what they originally argued/stated etc."
Just don't forget their full of you know what and don't step in it They'll be all over the place Thank you Michele your videos are awesome Thank you for giving and Happy Thanksgiving
I'm sad I have to break it to you, but going to the shower will NOT stop a narc who is determined to fight with you! My ex wouldn't hesitate to go into the bathroom and open the shower curtain to continue the argument, no joke. 😩
I just got out of the shower and told my mom to hold on while I change into my clothes, but she couldn’t wait. She had to start yelling outside my bedroom door. It is all about her getting her rage out. It is nuts!!!
Observe don’t absorb
Live, don't absorb.
Absolutely, but as an empath I struggle with that because I absorb all kinds of energy from people around me, both the positive and the negative. I guess some of us have to re-learn how to block the negative energy from affecting us.
@@SergioBlackDolphin You cannot observe something without changing it, Observer effect, Observer Bias. Validity fails.
@@HaleyMary Yes, I had this problem too. You can notice the energies, however, you are not responsible for their feelings or behavior. Just use your intuition to keep yourself at a safe distance.
@Happy & Single Celibate Is Sexy Depends of what you seek or know from that same 'Beach', was it day or night, there is much that changes the outcome of so called ‘observations’ (an observation is always limited towards the individual that is taking notes), you may even have scared away wild life that see you and maybe wanted to be on the beach. Even this conversation and your sentence changes that moment in time. You simply cannot avoid time or life for the effect of observation, is like a sensory overload, like a stone rippling effect in silent deep waters. Something will interact and therefore change.
I argued for years and years and couldn't understand why everything was an issue, a crisis, a drama. I thought it was my fault that I was starting a power struggle! I was IN a power struggle that depleted all my energy resources - and I am a high energy person. He drained my very being. Free since June 2017
Yes it is word salads, crazy making abuse with the direct purpose of eroding you, your energy and your self-esteem.. They are evil as they intentionally do this. Vampires, demons.
I’m so proud of you. It’s one of the hardest things to fight and get through. You proven to be strong and I hope many will follow.
I’m so impressed with all the people that have gotten out of the toxicity. It’s not easy to recognize it for what it is, because of all the decent/good times.
I feel u 100pcent i feel the same however not out yet -_- child involved and have a hard time.with custody stuff.... not sure i have energy for what would come with putting a final end. Wish i vould just tell him to f**k off
@@liline1ctoustay strong❤ just seeing them for who they are will empower you internally and make them feel veery uncomfortable
I did this Michele....really tried to stay cool when she wanted to pick a fight but sadly my calmness always led to the same outcome...violence. Me not reacting made her worse...far worse.
After 4 years of it....I did something I never thought I would do...I slapped a women...I know it's reactive abuse but that moment haunts me now and was a major reason I left. I don't think anybody can understand what these people do to you unless they've been through it themselves.
Thanks for your work.
I understand!
I'm a female, and when I started grey rocking my narcissistic partner, it made it much worse, and eventually led to him physically assaulting me so badly that THAT was my last straw. It does work on certain narcissists, but in some cases can be legitimately dangerous.
If it is of any comfort, my narcissistic mother groomed my brothers into beating her when they were young (when they getting into their teens). I observed as she would rage at them, rile them up on purpose, push every sensitive button she knew, until finally screaming in their faces telling them to hit her. Eventually, one by one, they did. She provoked them and taught them to do it. I've heard other stories of narcissists doing this in relationships, so that they can come out the victim and claim you abused them. My narc mother always wanted to say she was being abused, especially when it came to people she was abusing.
yes they try to push you to over reaction, I did it once too and threw something after surgery and the phone mysteriously stopped working. Then I had to pay for the window, Now I understand and Narcs treat you bad when you are ill.
I finally said "shut the f up" and that was the last time I saw my father. I should of stopped trying 10 years ago when I asked why I never hear from you (my father) to which ne replied " I don't think of it". (I wanted my son to have a relationship with his grandpa). I still ruminate but try to focus on my own and my son.
@@theoakhills my ex said i dont think about you when we were on and off, i have other things on y mine. it may be a thing.
@@theoakhills Narcissist don't have object constancy. If you are not around them, you cease to exist in their mind unless they want something from you.
Excellent information. Sad but true. Get out asap but in the meantime, don’t give them your energy. Its very difficult, but take Michele’s advice here. They suck your energy just by being in the same room without conversation!! Get out asap... im also trying.
They do.... Just to be around is hard and toxic...
same♥️
I’m trying I’m an old lady but I can do this
🤔 Be careful when doing some of these suggestions especially if your narcissist has violent tendencies during their rages. I can't count how many bathroom doors I've had to replace, and how terrifying it was.
The only way I found to shut him down during his raging,was to say something equally as horrible back to him, and he would retreat into his bedroom. It made me feel horrible but better than a black eye!
If it's at that point, then time to go.
So true...no matter how cool I stayed the violence would erupt. In fact showing calm and not engaging in the argument always led to violence...always!
This person is a malignant narcissist. These are the most dangerous types. They will kill you. Be careful.
My evil narcissist has a spare key of the bathroom; many times he opened the door just as untamed monster 👿
PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS with a malignant narsassist... It could lead to violence... This is for the average or borderline narsassist...
Narc: "You are too sensitive"... Healthy response to that: "..are too sensitive..What makes you say that?".. the focus stays on them and the pressure on answering is on them.. they need to explain.. :-)
they might say because you cant take a joke. Then can say I would have to if you were not so mean/rude/etc
Can't tell you how many times she's said that to me.. Unreal.. No reasoning with these demons at all
Me: "you seem out of control"
Narcissist's reply: "no, I'm not. I happy and content, what's wrong with you?"
True narcissist will start to gaslight in this case 🥰
If you go into the bathroom, they will trap you there. Yell through the door or even break down the door and damage the house. I have been trapped in small rooms so much by narcissists that just want to prove that they are right so many times that I now freak out when I am cornered. I would say be careful on that. Leaving has been the best answer for me because you can get out and they have no power over you. They might try to blow up your phone but you can shut it off. I have even been chased by car and had to lose them, and once they lose the control and the ability to trap you, they start being nice again. It has helped me to just tune out what they are saying about me, or sometimes I will just agree with them and that really throws them off. Like if they are accusing me of doing something I didn't do, I will just sarcastically say "Yeah I did that, because you know me, that is what kind of person I am." or like when one called me a piece of s... I said "Yeah I am, so maybe you should just get away from me and stay away." and they started doing the opposite by going "I didn't mean that. You're not a pos, you just struggle..." or whatever. A lot of reverse psychology seems to work.
Mine is a female and does that likes too trap me in a room and rages on
My mom will get me to say something, and than get mad at me for saying it. She says things like “I am not mad.” “ you can be honest with me.” But when I am honest she goes crazy and starts yelling at me. And I am like, well this is why I don’t talk to you.
You can't say how their behavior makes you feel because they will enjoy it and do it more.
Telling everything about how much negative energy they have inside and they feel good.. happy to spit it out to healthy carying sensitive persons🕊
So true. It’s sadistic. My dad will even double down and start to call out his own bad behavior as if to rub it in, after I’ve told him it hurts, and I wish he’d stop.
@@bobsanderz3005 they don't realise the permanent damage they do to families. It's what they'll be remembered for in generations to come. Perpetrators of incest are often also narcissists.
"they need my stamp of approval in order to hold onto their reality"
Amazing analogy! And the whole video. Thanks! :)
Holy crap my dad DEFINITELY is JUST pausing!! I even said it out loud recently! "Are you listening to what I'm saying right now or are you just preparing to say what you wanted to from before I started speaking?"
I find myself searching for this kind of advice before holiday dinners every year. Thank you.
Right.
Oh man you said it!
Great video. My mother is a covert narcissist, she is a passive agressive victim. Cannot take any criticism- immediately becomes defensive, upset, and ends up feeding her supply. For example- she really bad mouths her friends- literally tears them apart behind ther back- calling them lazy, stupid, bossy ugly etc. In the middle of a rant a few days ago I said " Mum I feel really uncomfortable hearing the way you speak about your friends, please don't include me in this type of conversation" Her response was to become really upset " I can't do anything right!" " I always get it wrong", then deteriorates into " I might as well be dead" " I'm just a nuiscance to have around", while bursting into tears, sobbing- and of course I feel bad for making her upset. I don't think I have ever had a straight meaningful conversation with my mother- ever.
I feel for you. My ex husband behaves like that too, total victim mode. Try not to believe that you have made her feel bad, she's done that all by herself.
My father (82) is very passive aggressive, so much you can literally see the toys getting flung out of the pram.
@@Indyghurl Thankyou - I am sorry to hear things are hard for you too.I feel like a cruel monster when I see myself through my mother's eyes !also in her 80s) and it is ugly. Videos like this are fantastic, because when we learn and become aware we can stop beating ourselves up. I have gone through a time of close self reflection in the past year or two, to understand the part that I play in the negative dynamic. Thankfully I have other close family who can see through the situation, and two amazing adult children- we all have very open, honest loving communication- even when tough things have to be discussed. That image of toys being flung out of the pram is so accurate.
I've dealt with a person who followed me around and tried to start a fight. Every day he got home and tried to pick a fight. I refused. He just got worse and worse until life was hell. Do yourself a favor and if you are around someone like this get away before it gets really bad.
I've watched all Michelle's vlogs and understand all the terms, the language that only exists in dealing with NPD. It gives me the understanding why those who havnt been affected think we're speaking a foreign language. We can't expect them to really get it, nor should they. Most will know it wasn't good for you. It showed. It was not their experience. Conversations and brilliant explanations like this are for us. You have to have the right chemistry between vlogger and viewer. Something just clicks. When with the non narc'd crowd it is your escape to normality. Why this popped into my head who knows. Sometimes spontaneous laughter, relief occurs in private. 3 years Narc free and always will be. A little refresher never hurts.
Thank you for Your Input ...Keeping the FAITH
RELENTLESS
Hard to get over 'narcissistic hangover.' This is defined by continuing automatic behavior and responses even after narcissist is deceased.
You nailed it at 4:30 you could have called me "Yo-Yo", considering how many times my loyalty to her, plus that little tiny bit of hope that stubbornly won't go away, made me keep trying. My whole problem was that I never dreamed that someone I loved and who (supposedly) loves me, could ever act like that, unless reacting to something I did wrong.
---> I had no idea those types exist and I never realized that they routinely weaponize the one weak "loop hole" in loving relationships, TRUST. Part of Love is the idea that you don't have to keep your guard up with the one you love, But they use that entry point to start the terrible abuse of your heart. Over and over it keeps cycling without me ever realizing it was deliberate.
---> It would have been real nice if I had been told about Toxic people long, long ago. Kids shouldn't have to find out by trial and error, because sometimes, as in my case, it could take a lifetime of pain to finally understand. Knowing about NPD would have saved my kind soul a whole bunch of pain and anguish that nobody should ever have to endure.
---> We must demand that Cluster B disorders, how to recognize them and how to remove yourself from that danger, be added to middle school or high school curricula immediately, or sooner! (I wonder how many viewers agree? Are there BETTER ideas out there?)
Good idea.
You're telling the absolute truth family
When people understand that Narcissistic person is possessed demons and attached to the Devils in subtle hidden. Then people won't get hurt .
This lady is right about everything she said. I lived it for 3 1/2 years and still do she may be 1200 miles away but she still does what she can to hurt me. It was a nightmare, I could not break free from her twisted ways. She lied, cheated, stole, threatened, tore up everything & busted things up and If you tried to ignore her are say something she didn't like, she would turn it physical she would punch me and say the awful things to me. Said I was gay and that I had STD she spread all she could bad about me. And people believed her I'm from a small community that has a small town, I cant have a date anymore because of all the crap she spread. If I do have a date, she will get wind of it and she will call and threaten the woman I went out with. I tried everything but beat the crap out of her, many said that is what they would do. I told them that is what she wants me to do so she can get me in some serious trouble. She isn't around anymore she moved 1200 miles away but she isn't completely gone her abuse still lingers. And after all this, I have lost who I was before nothing seems to excite me. I don't want to get out and find a female friend I'm afraid I will find another one like she is. They can turn your world upside down and they scar you inside out. I will never be the same and I can't look at people like I once did. They can suck every bit of anything good out of you and make you feel hopeless.
By coincidence I found out about this method too. My narc backs down when she hears me saying that 'she's now being evil again'. In the beginning of our relationship she told me that she feared something inside of herself. I'm now glad that she told me. I didn't realize that this info would be a lifeline when her anger is starting to spin out of control again. We have a kid. So I need to 'handle her' until my exit pike arrives. Greetings from Denmark to all of you survivors. And to you Michele: thank you so much
I think that she may be dealing with BPD traits. Narcs simply don't say that they fear something within themselves. They won't even imagine that there's something going on within themselves. That's what makes them narcissistic. They project it onto others. If your wife is dealing with BPD traits, then she needs help. It is not advisable to use her own fear against her. Though people with BPD are mistaken to be narcs, they have empathy and they can get mentally healthier with some help than the narc who thinks they are perfect.
Lakshmi Dev thanks. I'll take your advice into consideration. Perhaps I misspoke when I stated that she feared something inside of her as if it was something alien to her with its own existence. I suppose what I mean is that it is simply dislikes what she sees in the mirror when I hold it up. I would rather say that this indicates that she is not 100% narc but rather that she has narc traits in part of her personality that she's somewhat aware of (in calm periods). When she's angry she's goes for the kill 100%
@@martin5088 Okay. Only you know what you're going through and you know the best. Take care of yourself and your child. Mental health is very important.
Lakshmi Dev thanks a lot. It's very difficult to choose how to handle narc.attacks because on one hand pulling back- and shutting off emotionally is not healthy and on the other hand you don't wanna get into the pit with a narc. So what I try to do is stay calm and discuss on the meta plane her need for personal attacks. It is somewhat successful - especially in front of 3'party where she's afraid to prove my point by losing control. 1-1 she's immune to any sort of "meta-criticism" of her personal attacks and her blind monopoly on truth/moral behavior. 1-on-1 she will just shield up and steamroll any opposition with emotionally violent diversion tactics. When she launches personal attacks on me- or my son I have to speak out even when he's around. Sometimes my grip slips and I yell in return. I know the situation is not healthy for my son but I fear the alternative is worse: He'll internalize on an unconscious level the abuse he was exposed to as a kid and live a life based on anger-, shame-, guilt, self loathing etc. I have been struggling myself with a compliant, anxiety-ridden mother- and a dominant, boundary-transgressive father and I know how gravely this affects you. I hope and pray I've made the right choice for my son. Only time can tell. At this point in time there's no way out
"You put the focus on them" (Nieves, M.L., 2020) Cool :-D
Do not invest.
Don't play their game.
Stay away from their reality.
A man must know his value.
Woman too.
Another extremely difficult thing when dealing with narcs is that you CANNOT appeal to their heart- and a common desire for peace and consensual agreement. They will always try to optimize only their own situation. This has been so difficult for me to handle. They ONLY respond to negotiation efforts IF their unwillingness to negotiate peacefully has severe consequences for them. I have to bend my personality backwards in order to present such ultimatums because it feels like an all- or nothing confrontation every time. And you worry that such ultimatums will only make the next "negotiation" even more brutal. It's scary to deal with such people in your intimate family life and you truly feel your partner is an adversary as opposed to an ally.
I wish I saw your videos 20 years ago, or so, with my narc mom. They are excellent, and right over the target! I wasted tons of energy trying to get my mom to understand any single point I'd be trying to get across to her. She was impossible. Then I'd lose it and appear to re-earn my scapegoat status of "identified patient" of the family. I still over explain myself to folks up to this day. Thanks for all you are doing.
After creating the drama and chaos, and the normal/healthy minded person reacts in rage, the Narc would usually pretend to want peace and reconciliation, to then shift blame and look like the victim.. So they wouldnt use profanity or be disrespectful. Their true nature comes out if you just simply ignore them or even treat them kindly.
Thank you for this video.. I will use those tools next time. And I know there will be a next time. ♥️
Stay strong 💪
Yes there will be a next time it’s sad we know they will not stop and go away I’m going to use this for my next time.
Great video but TL;DR on my part: Don't ever say "this hurts me" to a narcissist, it's just ammo for them, my advice is record them. It's helped me immensely.
5:30 My Father's lover once said that they will proudly live out of my Father's wallet for the rest of their lives, and there's nothing I can do to stop it. Seconds after claiming I was lazy. This coming from an unemployed, stained pajama wearing woman who hasn't worked, cleaned, or cooked anything beyond frozen "health" food in well over a year at this point. Who lays around all hours of the day and night popping pills and watching t.v. As her cats shit and piss on everything. Leaving hard black stains on every single step of the stair case. Instead of cleaning, she's given them two separate dedicated rooms, covered head to toe in cat waste.
I now know this is a projection of their own short comings. But at the time I just could not understand. And engaged with the nonsense, very angrily.
To a narcissist you are simply all their bad traits. You're not human, they don't empathize with you. Do not try any regular heart to heart shit with them. Don't say things like "look I'm trying to see where you're coming from, please explain" You'll get an hour of word vomit, meant to confuse.
My personal solution was buying a audio recorder, and not even speaking to her until it's running, taking it out and starting it in an obvious manner and staring them in the eyes as I do it. Then remaining calm. That's the hard part. Narcissist's are unique, but it worked for me, in my personal situation the only power she held over me is to use my Father as a weapon against me. And as long as I have proof I didn't say anything out of line she has nothing.
This helps specifically with the narc tendency mentioned at 13:00 to follow you and just keep talking. Record them, make a phone call, walk into public, they are worried about what the world things of them for some reason still.
Now she's gone on to escalate and claim I regularly assault her, so every time she does I just say "that's a crime, I'm going to call the police and get an alibi" and walk right to my father and explain that the police now need to be involved at 3am over yogurt because she can't control herself.
No tactic is below them, my narcissist once insulted me for minutes straight, and the second I switched from anger to bemusement and started saying "oh ya what else ya got" and egging them on, like "good one, how original" they straight up screamed bloody murder and ran to my father claiming they where scared of me. This is kindergarten shit. Don't engage with it, record it, and leave the area. Don't speak to them, you're not human to them, don't extend a unrequited curtesy they don't deserve by trying to be reasonable.
In dealing with a narcissist you must kill your own emotions. Become hardened, calculated and cold, closed off even.
It's common for therapists to say horse shit like "oh tell them that what they said hurts your feelings". Never tell that to a narcissist, it's fuel for them. As she said at around 11:00, redirect it on them, just say "wow you're off the deep end right now" or such. Laugh. It will still enrage them, but never tell a Narc what gives an emotional reaction out of you.
A lot of times I say OK OK OK OK yes mmhmm yea OK now I have a headache I can’t do this right now will do this later and like you said I go into the washroom and close the door whatever it takes to stop him and then hopefully there is no later.
Until he finds the next subject.
A great distraction I have found is we got a puppy that he is so in love with because the dog will do whatever he says and it really helps distract him.
I wonder if others have gotten a dog that helps distract their spouse?
1 we ords... when they try to argue just say whatever and walk away
You have the very best videos! You have helped me so much ❤ and when I need your help, you are a click away and I have watched your videos numerous times throughout the years! Thank you kindly for bringing hope and understanding!
it's not just narcy's monologue... ex. narc was narc used talk on the phone to friends, lovers, family members for 2-3 hours on purpose let me hear his indirect verbal abuse and emotional blackmail by critisizing, mocking, bullying me to them with them and actually showing himself as personality that I never knew:gossipers, liar, cheater, cowardly... rude, sadistic, paranoid... I learn sleep with blocked ears by my fingers coz it was too hurtful, scary, giving panic attacks, insomnia... till I study narcissism and learned that he did it on purpose and did enjoy his sick behaviour I decided make effort not to feed him supply, don't give him pleasure... it took nearly 2 years... still learn to remember that narcs never changing just multifaced chameleons...
This may seem like a random comment among many others, but I want to thank you. I gave it a try, and it was very successful. It allowed me to defuse the conversation quite fast and I was able to return to my online studies without having to endure further accusations. It kept going a tiny bit while I was leaving the room however I did not let it get to me, so yep, no supply!
I found your channel today by looking for tips, and I must say you make the most helpful videos I have found by far. Thank you so much. Again, I am one person among the thousands watching your videos, but know that what you do is helping many people out there.
God bless you.
I feel like this is so important for men dealing with narcissistic women because if u react poorly people are so much more like to side with the women in the situation and not comprehend that women can do these types of things.
I was trying to prove I'm a good person to people and only making myself look crazy in the process. Thank you for waking me up to this. You helped set me free in many ways
Thank you. These are the things am doing now. Am grounded in my reality. I have stopped engaging and reacting once I realize this is a toddler in an adult body. Moreover, when you get all heated up, angry and argumentative you are only giving narc supply. So happy now. Living my best life.
Great video! A lot of advice on narcissism always ends with "go no contact". Not very helpful if you currently don't have that option. Right now I still have to endure my narcissistic father.
If he is in a bad mood he'll just scream, threaten and generally escalate until he gets his way. If he is in a good mood and notices that he is logically losing he'll resist for quite some time with the tools you mentioned in your video. But if you stick to your guns he'll eventually walk away. Success right? Wrong. Next time you meet him he'll bring the same topic up again as if he wasn't proven wrong. So you can fight all the fake arguments and gaslighting again. Usually then I just let it be. Arguing once was already draining enough.
My best advice is just laughing 🤣 at them and walk away 🤣 to me there's to much arguing or drama with the narcissist, I see just walking away and laughing 🤣 at them, myself I don't even want to talk to them, just me, I had a covert narcissist that I finally walked away from,so there for I don't even want to talk to any of them, great video Michelle.
After a 4 year struggle to communicate, I evolved to employ what you describe and you illuminated it perfectly! His recent response was to become so frustrated and to leave (again) and his intent is to emotionally hurt me. Im not really paying attention to his tantrum, he is blocked, and he will be dismissed from my life. He really does have this fantasy that I am the crazy bitchy irrational, hurtful one, which is really way off. It’s that I don’t kiss his butt! This is ridiculous! He is hurting himself! His loss. Oh well. I feel loss but relieved. I’m sorry he couldn’t be normal and I have to now endeavor to heal and stop loving him, and self-reflect about how I was vulnerable to this, but his dysfunction is not my problem and I can’t fix it. He thinks I’m out chasing a million other guys. Can you say “projection...”? I’m done being hurt by that sad creature....
Michele... You are always brilliant and beautiful! Love your work and admire your understanding and explanation of these demons...
Thanks so much for this video. I have watched a LOT of videos on narcissism and most do a good job of explaining what it is but lacking in the exact steps that I need to take to preserve my sanity. I have been married to a narcissist for 16 years and I always thought that if I just showed him enough love and understanding that everything would be okay. I became disabled 3 years ago and things got much worse. I felt like I was losing my mind. I lost myself. I was a completely different person. Thank goodness I know now that I am not crazy and I can recognize what's going on and quit beating my head against the wall! I am elderly and disabled so I am basically stuck where I am but much better equipped to deal with him.
I pray for Gods strength to continue to empower you.. the Lord is faithful and will strengthen you and guard you against that evil narcissistic spirit. I wish I would have known about this years ago. It's been going on and I didn't even know what it was. I thank God for the knowledge and wisdom and understanding we have today. God will bless you and strengthen you and love you. His love comes on the inside. My heart goes out to you so my prayers go up for you
I became weary and worn down by her constant arguing. I made the conscious decision NOT to argue with her and thus gave the narcissist nothing to 'push' against. She tried to provoke me with criticism and goading but I remembered the movie line "I shall bend like a reed in the wind". Eventually, she went ballistic and punched me in the face. My tactics certainly hit a nerve
My Mum lives with my narc father. I recently realized that she's been giving him the narc supply as a survival method and to minimise the impact on her physical health. It is very hazardous. However, I'm not ever going to judge her for taking the path of an enabler. I've been sick for a few weeks after confronting him. I'm still not immune to the narcissus abuse so instead of worrying about my Mum, I must work on myself. It is painful to have been brought up in a narcissistic family. Thank you for your healing voice🙏
Thank you. I've only recently in my seven-year relationship with someone I believe to be quite narcissistic that I have learned not to be reactive. So redemptively empowering. This resonates. 🙏
Yours is the Best advice I heard in a long time. ... I would add, if you go into the bathroom, take a phone so you can call for help. My raging son kicked the locked doorknob, and the doorknob flew off across the room and smashed the base of a pedestal sink. My head had been on my hands , bent over my lap in the path of the doorknob an instant before. I would have been killed. HE DENIES IT HAPPENED. GOD HELP US.
Grayrock all day. Then grayrock some more lol. Don't argue with a person who has no intention of ever even trying to understand you smfh. Evil... Lol... Don't enable it!
Evil.. Good word for these demons
Or as we say in Glasgow - 'Cannae argue wi stupit.'
@@AkashaMedea777 exactly!
@@blrenx they're unreasonable thats just to say the least
They are giving you dirty looks even as a stranger in the street, so we better learn and let go of their crap...
I wish I knew these tips long ago. My statements of “I having feelings” would only get the typical response of “ I’m a weanie”.
I enjoyed your observe not absorb video. Their mindset is your wrong and reactive anger means your attacking a good person. Narcissist wants fuel emotion + or -.
How to argue with a narcissist without giving narcissistic supply: Don't.
Yes, you are right. Always. Makes him shut his big nasty mouth.
In some situations that will mean you can never open your mouth except to say "I'm sorry, your right".
@@franceslock1662 haahha and that sentence pisses them off🤣
It feels like standing between the narcissist and a mirror while they argue with themselves - the punches come through you
“Put the focus on them, “that was a mean thing to say” or “you’re raging really bad rn” just that one statement” GENIUS! I’ve begun doing this subconsciously a bit before I found this video and it all put it in perspective. Thank you so much!!
My narcissistic mom just texting me, and I am thinking yes, nice to hear from you but, bye bye, I just know what is coming so I can not go there anymore, I have to stay no-contact
Same. I'm doing text only with her but she wants to Skype with me for narc supply sooo bad. And I'm like nah sis... lol...
Next step, block. And feel no guilt at all doing so.
@@raccuia1 that's the best stay healthy my friend from Oregon.
So hard to have a mother that is filled with a narcissistic Jezebel spirit. I will pray for you as I pray for myself and I will pray for our mothers. To think of how miserable they are then again narcissist don't feel their own pain because they put it on to us. They need God. And I need the Lord to strengthen me & guard my heart. She said that if you want to know what a narcissist thinks of them self listen to how they speak to us. I'm thankful I'm learning these techniques to not converse with them. And when I do simple techniques I putting the focus back on them, their behavior.
@@jcchristian3982 That's right
What if you do all that & they continue ranting on....I have tried taking a shower, he kicked in door because I didn't want to engage anymore & finally provoked an abused response from me....I started crying & screameI at him just to leave me alone.. he told me to stop cause he didn't want me to get him in trouble. I have never felt so out of control.
Here is a kind of supply I have barely seen addressed so far. There can be the mask of loving animals, and one’s own pets.
But I have heard a narcissist admit that people like himself display sadistic treatment of animals in secret.
Animals can be a source of narcissistic supply, just like people. And maybe better in someways, because they can’t tell anybody what happened.
Please don’t leave your pets alone with anyone you even suspect is a narcissist.
My mom is like that she can create drama and try to call the attention just for the sake of it... Well, guess what without me... As i am 0 contact 6 months already... My poor other siblings got stuck with her their whole lives, but not me...
I shut it down with " _The Time For Talk Is OVER._ " & walk away.
All very good advice. If you must communicate with these toxic type of people then respond instead of react, limit your contact to the lowest common denominator, it's never a conversation and it's always an argument so don't engage if you don't have to. Hopefully they will find you boring and leave and then you can consider yourself lucky.
They generally dont argue atleast not in an engaging manner. They aggravate and attempt to apply logic by concern but it's disjointed reasoning, unfitting to the whole of the situation by agenda.
Their reasoning centre isn't formed to be constructive or effective, atleast not as strong as has developed their default manipulative ability or intent to control. They act aggrieved if to concern them upon a matter nomatter how simple.
There is often a huge cognitive gap here between the two wings of strength and it kind of keeps them swirling around to figure.
Like a humming bird there is a chance here to use the beak and extract all the nectar but that's you're sweetness they invalidate and to absorb.
Then you get the passive walk past antagonistic style relationship arguments where you might as well be less than strangers. Intended really to keep you ruminating for eons about a five second interlude with them that's could be regarded by design to unstitch the fabric of your mind.
What do they even want, validation is superficial in the even of the content exchanged, are they just crying and clawing in the situation to find a tit or do they really aspire to be adulting?
Shyte, when it comes to being grumpy ourselves, where do we go surrounded by closed walls? We flourish in crevices of our own void puttying up the cracks.
Being human we expect to engage when it's not even worth the effort.
This is why we learn that narcissist is not the best source for human engagement, it evokes a person we don't want to be. We learn it would be simply better to punish ourselves if that should mean being alone. Then the narcissist would prefer to cheer us up for a while when in truth we'd rather slog them to help, wasting our previous resources. 😕
When I watch these narcissism dedicated channels, I feel like there is no more 2 people arguing about something. There is always a victim. As long as you are calling the other person a 'narcissist', you are good.
Not only do they not listen fo your point of view, they talk over you before you've finished a sentence.
Thank you. You explain things so well. Very clear. This is helpful for those of us with BPD’s who have narcissistic behaviors. DBT techniques are useful for me because living long term with a person with these behaviors creates PTSD symptoms. Keep up the good work Michele.
I’m sorry for anyone who’s dealt with this behavior for years and years. I’m so lucky I’ve only had this narcissistic friend for a few months. The best part of knowing someone like this is learning what a narcissist looks like.
Really good explained..Good to hear that True!! You validate us and yes they really do ..acting.. thinking
like this!!
This is so sad and hard to believe! But I believe it cause I’m living with one and it’s driving me nuts!! It’s like they aren’t human! My grandmother used to say the Devil comes in the form of man....yes indeed!
Wow! This was excellent! You are graced to teach this. A year ago I would not have been able to comprehend nor receive this message. I would have still been trying to reason with the Narc using standard arguing techniques. My major breakthrough was shifting my mindset and how these people thought. They don’t argue or debate for understanding. They argue for ego supply. Is not to sow peace but, confusion.
Before I woke up, I didn’t realize that I was using this tactic effectively when I was arguing with these types of people. When I got frustrated but I was still grounded I would turn their behavior back on them as shine the mirror on them. Worked like a charm every time. As a matter fact, they would leave upset angry and frustrated - those same very feelings that they were trying to inflict on me.
You're right,
This is exactly the tool I need! Brilliant. Thank you !!!!!
Always valuable and practical information. ❤
In my marriage which is over, there was a day that her (wife) inquired why don’t I show emotions. This during one of thousands of circular arguments. It was my peaceful demeanor that I would attempt to protect. Well I lost it...the coffee cup I was holding was a thick heavy ceramic mug full of coffee. My reply was “ oh uh want to see emotion do you?”at which point I hurled the mug from the living room into the kitchen. It exploded. “ How that?” I asked.....
That response surprised me as I’ve never been pushed to the brink before. Thus opening a pandas box that I did not know existed. I told her I will be a mirror to her. So watch out!! I was so sucked in to her web all I could see was hopelessness . I’m out and doing ok.its been hell more than anything. I’m divorced now for over ten years now. It’s not entirely over yet. But I’m healing and peacefully face each new day.
I literally started laughing because this is exactly what I’m dealing with I feel so much better I felt so dramatic and wring for trying to express things and now I feel 👌Thank you so so much
There is a healthy fight response. Healthy anger, that marks healthy boundaries, your healthy no's. Anger and fight response have healthy function and purpose. Its the human selfprotective instinct! :)))) As far as ive learnt and integrated into my recovery. Im not in a relationship with any narc, but they happen to be in support groups that i attend. Thats why its important for recovery and healing to be narc abuse informed and also trauma informed. Because a lot of narcisistic people have trauma and will go to support groups for trauma, but continue to do their abusive things there. An empath sharing there thinking the guidelines will be honored and the narcisitic person will sometimes invalidate if what is shared is too much. After all a lot of them have not confronted the reality of how abusive they are . Its unethical to have them recovering in a room with empaths, or codependets they will try to do their abusive dynamics. I agree with the part of this video, they will blameshift, and gaslight. Staying in ones truth is important. Exactly, taking a mirror to them, calling out their double standards etc. Im 3 years in healing and commited to keeping healthy boundaries, i started with looking at my childhood trauma and then realized my dad is a narc, and also having dealt with narcs as adults, now commited to staying in my truth, in my selfworth, in my reality , in my healthy bill of rights to be me and express me and myself and take my space, and grieve and be human and imperfect, and live, with out the toxicity of narc abuse! They want a reaction , little of them can have a serious conversation and a one on one like that, they will try to escape accountability, blameshift, project, gaslight do whatever, stall the conversation, word salad , do whatever..... I just say this because ive been there, and the toxicity is like bullshit. Now im able to see the redflags really fast. And even in their energy. I try to keep healthy boundaries and communicate about things that seem important, or injustices (mind you in group settings cause i aint in a relationship with a narc on a one on one, because they only need supply and are abusive, they can't do reciprocity) if theirs blameshifting or other things thats just my signal that it isnt a healthy relationship. And i look to keep healing and find beautiful empathic connections:) I did tell once to a borderline woman like i think i dont need to explain more because i feel like im overexplaining, and let that sit with her lol , i think she lost it. But ive gone as far as calling people narcisist to their face if they're being overtly abusive in safe spaces like support groups for trauma, and they try to escalate things, or use blameshifting or stuff there, and there abuse is obvious we do need trauma and narc abuse informed recovery.
Fantastic topic!
I'm dumbfounded that there are people who give this video a thumbs down...
I feel sorry for them 🌼
Observe. Don't absorb.
I’ve been with my bf so long and have learned he’s a narcissist and gaslights me so much and tells me I’m the one that has issues that now I’m starting to think I’m the narcissist & I might be the one with the issues 😢 but I’m the one that does everything that’s on the healthy mindset list and when he pushes far enough to break me he’ll start saying ‘see, you’re the crazy one look at you’ and after I get so worked up he’s the one walking out or going into the bathroom and putting up that barrier as you said to get away from me because I’m toxic
Yip, when he calls you the crazy one and then walks away, he's been given the supply he's needed. It allows him to walk away totally believing he's the victim.
You are not the abuser, find out about reactionary abuse. I use the term abuse here lightly as I'm not sure what to use. In a healthy relationship you'd be able to respond to the op, with a narc that's impossible. Grey rock as much as you can, but the only way to stop this merry go round, is to get off. You don't deserve to be treated this way. Me ex now says he can no longer read me. Read that as he can no longer control me. Ending the relationship is hard, takes enormous strength to stay with an abuser, so don't ever feel you're weak.
This is such an important conversation because there's no one way to do Gray Rock. It depends on the type of Narc and the situation. Great descriptions, examples, and goals. Excellent video, Michelle. Thank you!
Bright analysis Michele! 👌💪
Always remember,,, what can be underlying of the malignant narcissist is a significant cluster of hypocritical ideation. All that drama creation is really disorganised ideation, a muddle of expression we try to interpret just to be reasonable as understanding beings.
People tend to respect more for the narcissist who is pure in their game, presentation of 🙏 not the one who is regularly debasing of others concerns, feelings or wishes. If they are their own sidetrack then that's fine, but that extension of holding you as accountable for all their negatives is entirely punishing and unfair. That's the delusion of grandiosity.
Your presentations are always upbeat and potentially ammusing as well as for the serious nature in its conetation.
...gained insight as perspective, what a wary weapon in defense and if chosen, oppositionally. 🙏
your videos are so clear and your voice so soothing! thank you for giving hope to get through this nightmare...
Wish I would have found your channel long ago. I think this is the best channel on this topic. So well explained! Can't thank you enough! Are u survivor?
Survivor of 30 years of narcissistic abuse! So glad you find my channel helpful =D
Omg. My sister is THE same as this... I was always debating debating with her because she is sooo annoying when i start being cold or criticizing her..! And i was then wondering how to avoid an endless fight, but now i see i am not alone in this type of abuse. Thanks
Actually, my mistake was that i did not tell my ex-girlfriend how i felt about a hurtful thing she said or did. Because i expected that it was obvious that she already knows that she had hurt me. If somebody punches you in the face, you do not explain how exactly that hurts and where. And that’s how i approached a situation in which i was being yelled at or told to shut up or otherwise slighted and jabbed. Instead i reacted with a sort of assertive anger. I tried to interpret the issue back to her in an attempt to find out what it is that angers her so that i can avoid that anger in the future. The problem was that these attempts were met with denial and the accusation of attacking her for no reason. For example, basically any time we left the house and had some sort of organizational thing to do, such as grocery shopping or picking a restaurant or getting a bus, she sooner or later threw a temper tantrum or excessively complained about the situation, something not going her way, or directly targeting me with her anger. It happened even when just having breakfast or being on a walk, anything. I tried to find the patterns and then asked her if that is what she wants. For example, when she yelled at me for not having arranged dinner for her the time she wanted to eat, even though we had not discussed when or what to eat, i concluded that she would like to plan dinner and eat at a stable time of the day, so to avoid that. Or when she did not forgive me that i enjoyed a museum she chose slightly less than her (for the sake of simplicity, let’s say she would have given it 10/10 and i would have said it is a 7/10), when she bullied me for not agreeing to a specific trip suggestion she made, when she lashed out at me several times for taking her to a friend’s place to hang out one day, how she did not enjoy it and it was blamed on me, and what i did wrong that day, and yelling at me on a walk for telling her something “obviously uninteresting” - i concluded that we have a conflict of interests and that before we meet again, i would like to know what to do about it so that we would avoid these silly fights (i phrased it diplomatically, but actually the problem was indeed her unleashing anger on me over possibly anything). Her reaction was taking my attempt to resolve this issue as an attempt to ditch her and betray her, reacting in complete shock about how i could possibly conclude that we have a conflict of interests. That puzzled me, because it was as though she completely disregarded all the tantrums and yelling whenever we were slightly disagreeing or whenever we actually did anything together. I had skipped the step of explaining to her that her yelling and complaining is hurting me and that i interpret it as a clear indicator of dissatisfaction and as it happens very frequently, we seemingly have some differences that demand for resolution, because i obviously do not want being yelled at as the default mode whenever we go out together. It appeared that the reason my attempts to have a conversation about the problem failed is that i naively skipped this step of explaining to her such basic laws of cause and effect in interpersonal affairs and that i was hurting and wanted to find the key for it to stop. It still bothers me even after years of zero contact with this person. What if i had just been wiser back then and able to use the communication skills and knowledge about narcissism that i acquired by now through videos such as this? What if i could have just been a little more vulnerable and detailed in describing how i am suffering from her anger? I was in a war zone, attempting to negotiate for ceasefire, with the other party denying that any shots had been fired in the first place. And i had failed to show my injuries as evidence, assuming that would not be necessary.
No. You did all you could. Can just feel lucky that you are out of that mess!!!
Please don't beat yourself up over what happened. You didn't know then what you know now, and that's okay. No one goes around the net looking-up facts about narcs unless they're dealing with one, and it takes time to even recognize that the person you're dealing with is a narcissist. What matters is that you're free now. So free your mind from the guilt, none of that was your fault, you were a rational person dealing with a completely irrational one. Stay strong.
Yes. i had a friend that liked to explode basically act agitated. And I say white, she says black. It would escalate and then I had to stop. I need by peace, cant be her supply for her anxiety and need to push it off on me. No way, no thanks. If you tried to tell her to watch these videos, she would call you a narc. They know they are diff than other people but they forever stuck=demos got them, they let them in to forget their true self. they can play nice but not for long. they must upset/shame you to literally survive
You just described my relationship. It's not you. You couldn't have made it stop. It would have gotten worse and worse and worse with her too. Believe that.
so spot on in dealing with my mom.
YES my current Narc follows me around the house with that monologs where he's insulting and criticizing me. When I ask him to leave, he continues to speak like this AND TAKES HIS EXTRA PRECIOUS TIME TO LEAVE.
I Ignore my husband's narcissist rage. His verbal abuse is annoying, I just tell him that's not nice. I don't know where his rage and anger comes from, I suspect it was his dad. Not sure tho. (What I know for sure), I'm just fine.
After all the abuse I suffered from thinking my wife is from orphanage so let it go, I finally realized no excuse to beat and threaten your spouse and now she's out the house she I have a restraining order. I'm learning to go NC or grey rock with 2 kids to protect and keep safe... Let the Lawyers talk through the divorce...😊
Michelle you explain things so well and true to the point..
Thank you Michelle, You have helped me a lot in this last year. Im coming off disability and almost able to leave. I am having trouble when he behaves in the most disrespectful way and then is so cruel to me for being hurt. I practice respond vs react, setting boundaries, even gray rock....but when he acts like I'm the bad guy he he does something awful, I lose it! I say things I have never said to another human ever, I don't even know who I am anymore. I have all the info and then some, yet I still lose my sh*t. I do plan doing life coaching when I go back to work so that I can move past all this abuse, but I need to get through these next couple of months. I feel like I'm missing a key point to help me deal with this. I fear I may lose my mind before getting out!
He is like an alligator. It is just what he does. Try to remember that if he is rude, and I will pray you get away. Stay away from alligators, they bite. It is not personal, you did nothing wrong. Someone else will see you for your amazing self but nothing wrong with just being alone with yourself.
A month of no contact might be painful, but it won't kill you. It will make you stronger than you ever were before. Promise!
Practicing observe don’t absorb is so difficult, you can do it for a few minutes and say “you are allowed to think that way as I still allowed to my perception of things” and leave to the bathroom or make up an appointment and leave, because if you observe for too long without talking they get bored and start pretending that they empathize with you and they would say something like “what I need to do to make things better?” and then you think they are finally empathizing but NOT that question is just a BAIT..after you answer they start lashing out to you because they didn’t like the answer to their very “empathic” question. At that moment they doble down. Don’t fall for it, observe for a minute or two and leave the area or even better leave the whole place that way they will see that they cannot get thru your skin ANYMORE.
So hard when you are in the mix..🎯
The devalue stage was one of the strangest things I ever went through in my life. I always had a plan, that I rehearsed it over and over and tried to think ahead of the arguments....it never worked when she would show up, things went different than i thought..totally irrational, then I experienced Narcissistic Rage or an almost disassociated anger/deep sadness-helplessness. I never went through anything like that before and it was a really difficult time. Great video with some excellent points.
I told my brother.. Oh, i am talking on the phone... I will eat later... He threw me the plate of spaghetti in my back... He broke a swing chair on my sister s arm... So, I don t agree with this technique, unless you already have a safe place to go for good, or you already called the cops and sent them to jail, where they belong...
They interprete what you are saying like... Look at her, she thinks she is better than me... Again, each case is different, however, let s not underestimate these people are criminals without boundaries... Better to simply go... Otherwise, it escalates... I remember one of the best comments i have read... 'you are not part of the solution... You are part of the problem'...
Your presence disturbs him.. It s time to run and fine a safe place where he can not find you or manipulate you back🏃♀️🏃♂️🚮
One thing I learned about narcissists is that they seek fault in others.
It´s spelled "separate" and not "seperate".
The last year has been me working hard to heal from the narc abuse I endured from my ex for a decade. He is incredibly high on the narc spectrum. Covert and malignant all at once. So towards the end when I was finally understanding what I was dealing with and I’m re fighting was pointless. I’d say that. “ I don’t want to fight” and I’d lock myself in the bathroom
Which was the only possible escape. But it ended up not being an escape at all but rather a trap or prison from which I could not get free. Narcs have no shame and no shit off switch so he would then berate me through the bathroom door for literally hours on end. Me silent. Him either raging or calmly assaulting me and as most of us know… there was no effective tactic to freeing oneself from the terrors of a true narcissist. The only answer is radical acceptance and getting the hell out of the relationship. And even then it’s never really over, at least not for me bc I have a son w my abuser. Narcs are walking nightmares.
They say that "It takes two to tango."
True.
However it also takes two to have an assault or a murder. Both parties are NOT equally culpable.
One can be guilty and the other innocent.
"It takes two to tango." Is not the entire truth, in fact it can and often is used to justify cruelty and abuse.
This is maybe a point where male and female advice differs - females might be focused on how they feel and the narcissist is focused on them and no one is focused on the narcissists bad behavior, but as a male when I heard that part I thought that sounds not the right way around. As a male I think a male can potentially end up focused on the bad behavior of the narcissist - and actually lose track of our own own emotions and looking after our own emotions during it. This can lead to getting really angry and frustrated, which the narcissist likes of course. Women might (this is an estimate) generally already keep track of their emotions and tending their own emotions so they might just need to focus on observing and not absorbing. Male advice might actually need to be to not observe so much and to track and tend their own emotions more rather than spending so much attention on the narcissists behavior. A male possibly needs to be careful to not abandon the tending of his own emotions when running into a toxic person.
Anyway to me it didn't feel the right way around and that's a guess as to why - men might be more observing focused already, but this can be to the detriment of attending/absorbing their own feelings during an encounter with a toxic person. Women might generally need to just observe more, men might generally need to observe less.
Maybe watching ross rosenberg’s explanation of the observe don’t absorb technique would help you understand the process. The point is to not engage with them or not get involved in the argument at all. It is actually to protect your own emotional status.
@@kaajalhirji3365 I get the idea, but ultimately I'm saying that while some people will be focused on how they are feeling during such an encounter, some other people wont be focused on their own feelings much at all and are just focused on the problem the narcissist presents - and that could have issues with it as well. I'm basically raising that for anyone who resonates with it - sometimes people need different techniques.
@@cairosilver2932 Yeah its really good to be indifferent. Say they are bashing you saying you have ad credit we cant buy the house I want. Dont react negatively or think to yourself, It is interesting that he would look up credit score. It seems like he thinks I am irresponsible. I wont defend myself or make excuses plus that will make feel more judge. A nice bf/gf would not throw that in my face. (All the while gathering ore info on the narc and how mean he/she can be. I am gonna remember this dig and wont feel bad when I leave him) The doesnt understand why his dig did not get a reaction so he repeats and adds another insult, always upping the ante for a reaction. You say, yea I wish my credit was better, oh well.
And when they pause they say... "Are you done now..?"
Always interrupt you but if you do that you are not letting them talk and if you say that when they do it they want you to hurry up so they can say their point/ideas etc..
They raise their voice and claim they aren't and always say you love to argue and start and make them argue everyone makes then argue when they said they aren't arguing or loud etc. They always discredit what they originally argued/stated etc."
Thank you for the tips. I am going to use them.
Right now I live with a malignant narcissist im going to observe dont observe but record all the bs
Thank you so much, this info will save my sanity!
Just don't forget their full of you know what and don't step in it They'll be all over the place Thank you Michele your videos are awesome Thank you for giving and Happy Thanksgiving
Thank you Michelle 💕 I've been with your channel since I found you in 2011
CAN'T FIX BROKEN ‼✌
And you can't win if it's a parent and you're the child.
I'm sad I have to break it to you, but going to the shower will NOT stop a narc who is determined to fight with you! My ex wouldn't hesitate to go into the bathroom and open the shower curtain to continue the argument, no joke. 😩
I just got out of the shower and told my mom to hold on while I change into my clothes, but she couldn’t wait. She had to start yelling outside my bedroom door. It is all about her getting her rage out. It is nuts!!!
I've met several Narcissists since childhood. I've never met an intelligent one.