I think if you call, hit top pair, see little aggression from opponent, and still feel the need to turn your hand into a bluff its a good indicator of something that should be folded preflop
This is a good example of a hand I was just looking at yesterday in Harrington's cash book. AQ pf oop gets re-raised. He says fold every day. And the probabilities are clear. I'm not an expert, but I see a lot of hands in these call-ins that mathematically are clear folds but that the heroes are often saying "the math is good", when clearly it is not.
Maybe I'm a nit. But caller said he pegged the button as a tight reg. With that SPR, I'm just gonna fold the AQ to the four bet. I have to play the pot out of position and the stack sizes are awkward. The four bet open size was large enough that folding is fine here imo
Good points. Also a tight reg is less likely to make a thin 4bet (AQs or 1010) when he could call a 3bet in position with less variance with a weaker hand.
Interesting thought process. As Bart said, the ending was rather anticlimactic but I feel like I learned something from listening to this line. I don’t know about the game the Caller is playing in, but where I play, a four bet is always aces or kings. Even Ace King is a flat behind a three bet 99% of the time. So, Ace Queen is a fold here, but I respect his willingness to think outside the box!
Facing a 33.5BB 4b 100 bigs deep with AQos OOP is a standard fold. The guy probably 4bs less than 4% of the time and isn't folding post flop with an SPR of 1.
that solver comment is correct, considering the offsuit. It's also helpful that the opponent is noted as somewhat capable, giving more merit to the solver here
If I'm the villain here I'm calling with AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 10's, qj, j10, 89. This bluff probably only gets me off a chop with those stack sizes and how much went in the pot preflop.
I knew it was ace king when villain checked the flop….that’s the only spot I see anyone checking there. Aces and kings just shove to somewhat protect because they’re never folding with the stack sizes. And ace queen off (even suited) is a fold preflop here honestly
The SPR on the flop makes villains check totally meaningless and unhelpful to us. Starting a bluff on the turn is fairly psychotic. Sure, this line gives hell to AA and KK, but there are way too many other combos. If he checks through on the turn through, maybe we can consider getting frisky, but leading out for the little string bet on the turn is just asking for pain.
This all goes back to pre flop. Gotta fold AQo to a 4 bet at this stack depth OOP. Just setting yourself up for really tough spots post flop. As Bart and the caller mentioned, the bluff has a far better chance of working if deeper.
He may not fold AK regardless, but I’m willing to bet the caller still gets looked up by AA/KK a decent percentage of the time at this stack depth. Whereas he will start folding those hands out to larger turn and river barrels.
X/f to any bet unless villain is super aggro. He probably checks down any hand that you beat here (if there is a single hand he 4 bets that you are ahead if
My logic, and it can definitely be flawed, is that I was three betting a lot preflop on this table. I presumed he would combat this by opening up his four betting range to try and win the pot outright. I by definition am going to be exploited here by someone who decides to four bet light because I am being overly aggressive. Now can the villain effectively combat me by simply flatting pre? Absolutely. It's also possible I am totally overestimating his level of analysis. He is a good player and for sure can adjust to my play as I can to others at the table. He being on the tighter side is not an indicator that he will never adjust his play to changing circumstances. Since I was three betting here with one of my better hands I decided to see the flop. Because of SPR I should've folded, and I wasn't quite thinking that through as I was in the hand. However, against normal light four bets my AQ plays okay. I believe in my ability to navigate different boards. All that being said, that doesn't mean I didn't make a mistake here preflop by calling. It might be better to fold and go all in versus flatting here, especially at our stack depths. That is my level of thinking here. Feel free to disagree, as Bart definitely did with my assessment on the four betting part.
I think folding is the right play facing a 4 bet with AQ o… Play it 1000 times and you would see that it’s a losing hand on the overall in this situation.. IMO
First statement was this guy is competent, TAG, reg.... probably close to pre flop fold...he seems polarized to at worst JJ or better. On flop there is no doubt you have worst hand, just not sure you can get him off of any hand even with red KK he probably makes a crying call to your shove
It puts the blinds at an even further positional disadvantage. They already have to act first post flop, and now they have to act first pre flop too, making them play way tighter than normal. The button also has such an insane advantage now because they get to act last pre flop and post flop. I’m glad that my local game doesn’t allow button straddles
@@jackcarey7927 not all places make the straddles go first. Some do but mostly it starts under the gun then skips the blinds and then back to the button. It’s an advantage for the button and it punishes the cheap nits not willing to do it, that can never be bad.
@@Stockhandle123 straddles in general are good for the game if you’re at a good low stakes table. However, UTG straddles are inherently better. Button straddles force the blinds to play way tighter and at low stakes a lot of EV comes from bad players flatting in the SB and BB with shit hands because they think they’re “priced in”. Button straddle forces them to play better preflop. They’re not bitching for no reason haha, the theory is just high level.
I play at the Rock and virtually nobody ever 4 bets without AK, AA, KK 12 combos of AK 3 combos of AA 4 combos of KK So only 1/3 of hands that opponent MIGHT fold half of time, to a Jam. Not a good bluff.
Not looking to play 1 SPR flops. All of the fancy talk and analysis is pretty irrelevant at that point. You play a 1 SPR flop and top pair top kicker doesn’t make you happy? A great sign that a fold or shove pre was in order. The 1/3 stack rule is simple and effective for a reason.
Bart. I think we need 'charts for EXPLOITITIVE poker' where vs a 'low vpip' player (tight-ish) AQoff out of position full ring is NEVER a 3-bet and 50-50 a call. What do you think? I'd say from observation that 90% of players ARE NOT BALANCED and NOT "GTO ORIENTED". Even in high stakes games $10-25-50-100........
A properly constructed bluff targets the BOTTOM of villain's value range not the top! Caller is delusional if he thinks villain is ever folding AA or KK with just a pot-sized bet left on the flop.
I think if you call, hit top pair, see little aggression from opponent, and still feel the need to turn your hand into a bluff its a good indicator of something that should be folded preflop
If the board is Q42 then I think the hand plays differently. His whole range beats you now, AK, AA, KK, JJ, 10s, when normally it's only AA and KK
@@therealjackwhite1523 well, if that's villain's whole range (which I agree with), that's a good enough reason to fold pre.
@@therealjackwhite1523 Why would you call if that's his range? AQ is just a trivially easy fold pre.
When the guy 4 bets to over $300 pre, 1/3 of hero’s stack, the hero needs to ask himself if he wants to play for his whole stack with AQos.
@@Jermo484 I don’t 😎
I think this is a good example of how AQ can get you in alot of trouble.
Thanks for the call Bart!!!
good call
Hard to describe how much i love this caller
This is a good example of a hand I was just looking at yesterday in Harrington's cash book. AQ pf oop gets re-raised. He says fold every day. And the probabilities are clear. I'm not an expert, but I see a lot of hands in these call-ins that mathematically are clear folds but that the heroes are often saying "the math is good", when clearly it is not.
Maybe I'm a nit. But caller said he pegged the button as a tight reg. With that SPR, I'm just gonna fold the AQ to the four bet. I have to play the pot out of position and the stack sizes are awkward. The four bet open size was large enough that folding is fine here imo
It’s an easy fold and it doesn’t make you a nit.
Good points. Also a tight reg is less likely to make a thin 4bet (AQs or 1010) when he could call a 3bet in position with less variance with a weaker hand.
Pegging at the poker table is gross. That kind of behavior should only be allowed behind closed doors.
7:02 On flop caller goes from: "I'm pretty much ready to give up"..."I'm probably just gonna dump it," to deciding to punt stack on turn lol
Interesting thought process. As Bart said, the ending was rather anticlimactic but I feel like I learned something from listening to this line. I don’t know about the game the Caller is playing in, but where I play, a four bet is always aces or kings. Even Ace King is a flat behind a three bet 99% of the time. So, Ace Queen is a fold here, but I respect his willingness to think outside the box!
Thumbs up based on name for sure.
No need for a calling range preflop here except maybe sometimes with AA. And AQ is a fold, probably suited as well most of the time.
Facing a 33.5BB 4b 100 bigs deep with AQos OOP is a standard fold. The guy probably 4bs less than 4% of the time and isn't folding post flop with an SPR of 1.
Just fold pre. Otherwise you might be tempted to punt your stack from out of position......
Fun to see a hand where ranges are so tight that TPTK is at the bottom of hero's range and a reasonable (if optimistic) bluffing candidate
Bart said "this is very treacherous" 🤣🤣
that solver comment is correct, considering the offsuit. It's also helpful that the opponent is noted as somewhat capable, giving more merit to the solver here
Anyone remember the Joseph Cheong pre flop war WSOP Main? Those were the good ole days.
AQo slam dunk fold oop to preflop 4 bet. Being deeper would make it an even worse call.
This story is ridiculous if you are an actual 2/5 reg.
Never folding.
If I'm the villain here I'm calling with AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 10's, qj, j10, 89. This bluff probably only gets me off a chop with those stack sizes and how much went in the pot preflop.
LOL, we always say exactly that about north and south Florida here in Deerfield.
That’s the worse when you’re going 9 levels deep with a bluff and your opponent turns over the nuts.
I love this rip
Lol I was watching the 07 wsop and saw Bart there playing dam been at it a while huh?
Idk how you call the 335 …feel like I’m either shoving or folding depending on couple factors
8:57: You aren't getting AA or KK to fold in a 1 freakin SPR pot, especially when they have either a gutter or OESD. I mean common.
When you visit Tampa you have to go to Siesta Key, consistently voted the best beach in the continental US
I knew it was ace king when villain checked the flop….that’s the only spot I see anyone checking there. Aces and kings just shove to somewhat protect because they’re never folding with the stack sizes. And ace queen off (even suited) is a fold preflop here honestly
The SPR on the flop makes villains check totally meaningless and unhelpful to us. Starting a bluff on the turn is fairly psychotic. Sure, this line gives hell to AA and KK, but there are way too many other combos. If he checks through on the turn through, maybe we can consider getting frisky, but leading out for the little string bet on the turn is just asking for pain.
This all goes back to pre flop. Gotta fold AQo to a 4 bet at this stack depth OOP. Just setting yourself up for really tough spots post flop. As Bart and the caller mentioned, the bluff has a far better chance of working if deeper.
He may not fold AK regardless, but I’m willing to bet the caller still gets looked up by AA/KK a decent percentage of the time at this stack depth. Whereas he will start folding those hands out to larger turn and river barrels.
If I have AA and KK and I check behind on flop, I just call down. No chance I fold in a 1 SPR pot.
X/f to any bet unless villain is super aggro. He probably checks down any hand that you beat here (if there is a single hand he 4 bets that you are ahead if
I am super exploitable in this spot - I am folding pre against almost any live player at this level.
likewise...
If you already said he's a tight player and plays well you shouldn't be calling from out of position with Ace queen off or am I wrong?
My logic, and it can definitely be flawed, is that I was three betting a lot preflop on this table. I presumed he would combat this by opening up his four betting range to try and win the pot outright. I by definition am going to be exploited here by someone who decides to four bet light because I am being overly aggressive. Now can the villain effectively combat me by simply flatting pre? Absolutely. It's also possible I am totally overestimating his level of analysis. He is a good player and for sure can adjust to my play as I can to others at the table. He being on the tighter side is not an indicator that he will never adjust his play to changing circumstances.
Since I was three betting here with one of my better hands I decided to see the flop. Because of SPR I should've folded, and I wasn't quite thinking that through as I was in the hand. However, against normal light four bets my AQ plays okay. I believe in my ability to navigate different boards. All that being said, that doesn't mean I didn't make a mistake here preflop by calling. It might be better to fold and go all in versus flatting here, especially at our stack depths. That is my level of thinking here. Feel free to disagree, as Bart definitely did with my assessment on the four betting part.
13th rule of poker: never represent the hand your opponent has
And represents
I think folding is the right play facing a 4 bet with AQ o…
Play it 1000 times and you would see that it’s a losing hand on the overall in this situation.. IMO
I’m def folding
AQo seems like the worst sort of hand to call a 4 bet oop pre. At least something like 76e is easy to play for value or buff.
If you have ever played at the HR in Tampa, and someone 4-bets you AQ is an auto muck....
Maybe i'm too tight but I am only 3 betting AQ against lag players and definitely not calling 4 bet
First statement was this guy is competent, TAG, reg.... probably close to pre flop fold...he seems polarized to at worst JJ or better. On flop there is no doubt you have worst hand, just not sure you can get him off of any hand even with red KK he probably makes a crying call to your shove
What's wrong with button straddle?
Nothing it’s actually amazing for the game in 1/2, 1/3 or 2/5. Any higher it would probably be bad. This are just old school guys yelling at clouds.
It puts the blinds at an even further positional disadvantage. They already have to act first post flop, and now they have to act first pre flop too, making them play way tighter than normal. The button also has such an insane advantage now because they get to act last pre flop and post flop. I’m glad that my local game doesn’t allow button straddles
i love them; when the suckers straddle of course; not me. it's an obvious negative ev play for the straddler.
@@jackcarey7927 not all places make the straddles go first. Some do but mostly it starts under the gun then skips the blinds and then back to the button. It’s an advantage for the button and it punishes the cheap nits not willing to do it, that can never be bad.
@@Stockhandle123 straddles in general are good for the game if you’re at a good low stakes table. However, UTG straddles are inherently better. Button straddles force the blinds to play way tighter and at low stakes a lot of EV comes from bad players flatting in the SB and BB with shit hands because they think they’re “priced in”. Button straddle forces them to play better preflop. They’re not bitching for no reason haha, the theory is just high level.
Bad mouthing North Florida? St Augustine rocks!
I think I'm just check/calling down with TPTK and going broke in a much more straightforward manner.
fold pre
5bet jam pre- why? Get called by only better hands and fat l get all bluffs to fold probably.
Call 4b OOP with AQo, flop top pair gutshot bdfd and you’re first thought is how can I bluff this guy? Hmmmmnn
Easy jam
I play at the Rock and virtually nobody ever 4 bets without AK, AA, KK
12 combos of AK
3 combos of AA
4 combos of KK
So only 1/3 of hands that opponent MIGHT fold half of time, to a Jam.
Not a good bluff.
there's no constructing any bluffing range in spr=1 at low stakes....unrealistic concept
Too bad it wasn't AA/KK ...
Good vid anyway ;-)
clicking buttons confirmed
Not looking to play 1 SPR flops. All of the fancy talk and analysis is pretty irrelevant at that point. You play a 1 SPR flop and top pair top kicker doesn’t make you happy? A great sign that a fold or shove pre was in order. The 1/3 stack rule is simple and effective for a reason.
What's the 1/3 stack rule
@@jdnation9326 you win 1 stack, you lose 3.
Bart. I think we need 'charts for EXPLOITITIVE poker' where vs a 'low vpip' player (tight-ish) AQoff out of position full ring is NEVER a 3-bet and 50-50 a call. What do you think? I'd say from observation that 90% of players ARE NOT BALANCED and NOT "GTO ORIENTED". Even in high stakes games $10-25-50-100........
A properly constructed bluff targets the BOTTOM of villain's value range not the top! Caller is delusional if he thinks villain is ever folding AA or KK with just a pot-sized bet left on the flop.