Oh thank you for using the El Cap. I know a lot of us do and it’s nice to hear what you can do with it. :) Also, I’m forever grateful that you guys do this show. Your friendship together, shared interest, entertainment and education you both give.. I’m not sure you could realise how much it means to some of us. The show really does make my world a better place, and I’m sure it does the same for many others too.
Same here this show has helped my music career immensely I cannot state it enough Thank y’all If you wanna check out my tunes check out super secret band Owe these madmen across the water some credit for sure
As a former owner of a Hotrod DeVille, I always used the drive channel set fairly clean instead of the clean channel as it felt slightly warmer, quieter and more useable.
I own a Blues DeVille 4x10 60W combo amp and I always had this kind of problem, until today. After watching your video, I had an idea to simply intall a Beringer 12AX7 MIC-100 tube preamp in the effects loop of the amp. This fixed the problem without losing tone. The configuration: Guitar -> Pedal Board -> Amp In. Than on the effects loop: Amp loop send (Preamp Out) -> MIC-100 -> Amp loop return (Power Amp In). Than I adjusted the volume knobs and now it sounds gorgeous and controllable. Thanks for the idea. MIC-100 has only Volume In and Volume Out controls, it does not have EQ controls. The valve in the MIC-100 Preamp is a sigle 12AX7. Try this, it works!
The first thing I would do with a Hot Rod Deluxe IV is swap the first two preamp 12AX7s for 12AY7s, and the phase inverter 12AX7 for a 12AU7. If it's still too loud, stick a volume control in the effects loop, all you need is a passive voltage divider.
This is what I did as well. Think there’s an old Phil McKnight video on it. It really tames that amp and spreads the volume across the vol lot better as well. I think the George benson comes with these tubes in stock.
I find that a 12AT7 in the phase inverter (V3) solved the clean headroom problem for me. I don't much care for the drive channel so I use a StewMac EC Expander pedal into their Ghost Drive Klon clone for distortion and I never have to take it over 4 on the clean channel. It's an extremely bright amp so I have a Boss EQ7 pedal at the end of the signal chain to tame the midst. And instead of my regular guitar mics I use a LD condenser mic to record (doesn't work well on stage though).
Me too. Mine has a -24dB to -6dB Range and i have my HR volume at 4 and everything is great. I use -24dB for home, and -6dB for gigs, all other settings stay the same
Didn’t quite finish the episode yet but one thing that comes to mind on this one is how I feel like your guys are explaining things that I’ve been subconsciously trying to achieve for years
I was just looking at one of these at the local guitar gear shelter here, and was considering rescuing it, and seeing this video and reading all the great comments and tips about it have led me to conclude it will indeed be finding its way home to me later today. Thank you very much for making the division of my estate that much more difficult for my family. I may even rescue that D&M Drive they have.
DIY fx loop attennuator is really easy to build. Cut a patch cable i two. Both ground cables on pole 3. Tip 1 on pole 1, tip 2 on pole 2 on a 100k pot. The amp start to hit the compression between 3 and 4 on the input volume. (There are drawings on this if you seach the net) Another hack is to change the 6L6 tubes with 6V6 tubes. 6V6 has less output. (Not possible from 6v6 to 6L6)
As a Hot Rod Deluxe owner for years, I've always struggled with this. Recently settled on putting a JHS Little Black Amp Box in the effect loop. I also changed one of the pre-amp tubes, but I may put the original back. Awesome to see and hear all of these options, and to have you guys go into so much depth! Appreciate the vid! :D
you should put the originals tubes back and get an eq pedal, i also have a hot rod and using my volume knobs on my od and fuzz plus my eq and jhs amp box i can use the amp comfortably at like 4-6 and when i wanna push it i can go up to 10 but i do sacrifice not having my actual tone because at that point im just gain staging all the pedals for max volume which is a nice sound ( this is the tone most people reach for ) but i actually feel like if you avoid simply gain staging for volume and you let the pedals show their colors more you get more unique tones also a huge tip on overdrive and especially distortion, if you have a good clean base, you dont need to dirty the signal as much as you think if you use the amps natural loudness/gain to power the pedals so that your pedals dont have to go from 2 on the knobs to 8 for you to hear a difference in the tone
@@cheeseboy075 That's a great tip! Thanks for the reply! I do have an EQ pedal on my board, but I run it in the front of my amp to remove a few harsh frequencies from my admittedly high gain pedals (I love scooping my mids... don't judge me!). I've been thinking about moving it to the effects loop recently though, so I'll probably do that on my next board edit. I'll certainly try cranking the amp though to see what kind of dirty tones I can get. All that said, even with just the JHS amp box, I usually run my amp at 6 or 7 and it's pretty comfortable... albeit with tamer tubes.
" taming volume in a loud clean amp, but retaining a little bit of feel and dynamics." Never clicked so fast on a TPS upload, or any other upload for that matter! This is perhaps the #1 problem I have to deal with as a hobbyist guitarist. I don't use a HRD but I do have a couple of fairly loud clean amps. Thank you Dan & Mick. Legends, you are.
Really love this episode for showing a lot of creative ways to solve a very common problem without it being constrained the way a gear demo can be. Mick's comment about this all boiling down to gain staging was very illuminating.
Here's a funny story about a Blues Deluxe amp (at least it's funny to me). I was a gigging musician using this amp in clubs mostly on 2.5 volume for years. We got hired to headline a motorcycle club open air gig in the middle of summer 2009 and as we approached the venue, I was thrilled when I saw that the club rented out a massive line array PA that was just used in a stadium concert I was at a month prior. So long story short, my first though was - oh I will finally get to play my amp at a decent volume setting. So the tone rehearsal started as it usually does about 2-3 hours before the crowd showed up, and I put the amp on 4.5 volume. After about a minute in I heard the sound guy through the wedges... You can guess already? "Turn down the guitar amp, the stage volume is too high". It was as if he ripped my heart out. I ended up on 2.5 just like in small clubs lol. That's a Deluxe amp without an attenuator for ya.
Hi there chaps, Love your work. I had a Hot Rod IV with a very efficient cannabis-rex speaker (101+dB). I think it trained me to be a better player, but I also think it crippled my playing in secondary ways. All spike and no sustain, all headroom and no compression. All mid range barking, and little else for tone. Once I got a princeton clone with a 12", I could hear the amp respond in a way the HRDX did not. I did not know what I was missing, why I sounded shite, until I realised the HRDX is not a home amp. No, it doesn't fix the problem with a volume pot in the fx loop, not with a compressor, not with an underdrive. (ed: I even tried lower gain tubes in V1, V2 to change the sound, for clean and drive, 5751, 12ay7, etc, and in the end the amp just still mostly does what it does.) With all that considered, we may as well be using a PA speaker and an amp sim. I even tried using a strymon iridium into the fx loop return (cab sim turned off). Yeah okay, but, that's not really what this amp is for. The amp is a dud until you can turn it up. No little fix can help it. Then, when it's loud, you change all your settings and hear how it becomes a different beast. If you can't do over 103dB or so all the time, do not buy this amp. It is the wrong product. There are many others in the same price range. Stick a mic in front of a smaller amp, and you will have a nicer time. Love from a schwanger who learned a lesson.
Seriously everyone needs to stop trying to love this amp which requires extra products to make it practical. (ed I spent money on pedals I didn't need, to try to save this amp, before I knew better) The price of the amp, plus the extra products you want to help it, add up to the price of a better amp. There are lots of other amps out there. If you have a hot rod, because it looked nice on paper and was affordable, and you can't be disgustingly loud, just accept this is the wrong amp for you. That'll save you time and money. Buy something else, choose life! (a blues jr has similar problems at a smaller scale, so don't do that either, goddam farty spikey shit..)
Great tips. I've had my HRD for 15 years now and over time learned these things through trial and error. Had a tech replace the volume and master knobs (from linear to audio taper), and tried everything I heard about to tame the volume because every show, the sound person asked me to turn down. I tried different tubes, an attenuator, and everything else shown in this video. In my experience, the attenuator and lower-powered tubes really killed the base sound of the amp, so I'm now at a point where I have all my pedals going into the front of the amp with a volume pedal at the end of my chain, and also I put a simple passive volume box in the loop (I made mine, but you can buy one online, it's just like a volume knob on your guitar, but built into a pedal box). This way I can crank all of my drive pedals and pull the output down with the volume pedal before it even gets to the amp. And I can turn the amp volume knob as high as I want and pull that down with the volume box in the loop. I also always have on a boost for single coil guitars, which just helps put a sparkle into the pure clean tone. Also note that the amp's inputs 1 and 2 have a big difference in terms of sound (1 is hotter than 2, so in my experience it comes across brighter and louder) and are good to experiment with as well. One other thing not mentioned -- people always complain about the drive channel on the amp, but the real problem is that the EQ is shared between the clean and the drive channels. It's really hard find one EQ setting that works equally well for both channels. Putting an EQ pedal in the loop is not only one option to tame the volume, but it also lets you dial in a whole different EQ for the drive channel. So you can set your clean tone via the amp EQ knobs, and then when you hit the channel switcher you can also hit your EQ pedal in the loop to affect the amp's drive channel -- this makes it so you can set both channels to be awesome, it just takes a little setup and practice with hitting the switches. All in all, this is a really versatile amp when you use a few little tricks to sculpt your sound through the massive volume output it can have. If you only do one thing, put a passive volume knob or pedal in the loop, turn it down a little, and tweak your sound from there.
I managed to listen to this video with the sound of my speakers turned way down, only using my right ear (because of my sudden hearing loss that I mentioned in the comments in the previous video). I want to congratulate Dan with the Underliner. This might be the solution for me to still play guitar. It sounds like the amp, while most attenuators do change the sound (like my Two-Notes Torpedo). Thanks Dan.
My dad is in his 80's and told me his amp stopped working, I brought it home figured I'd try some experiments, clean it etc. I plug in my Randall 4x12 Cab completely caught off guard, OMG the volume is tremendous. That Randall I own is a 120 Watt and made to Chug Metal and this little Fender with the Sovtek groove tubes blows it out of the water in sheer volume. My Dad doesn't have an amp problem he just pluged his speaker into the wrong jack, lol. Now I don't want to give back his Amp (I will but I don't want to), I could totally Gig with this amp and just bring my pedal board for the gain and tones I need.
Nice take on what can be done to make this amp “bedroom friendly” and customizable. Love the hot rod… it’s a fender standard on its own. It’s a sweet gigger for sure. Last thing always: find your sound that works for you and the band; have a blast!
Fantastic video guys, I have a Classic 30 and have been trying the EQ in the loop and your compression adds more to the sound. Enjoy the channel. Side note, I found myself trying Micks eye glass trick while watching. 😂🤓❤️
Once I put the JHS little black box through the loop, being able to push the tubes and get less poke. More tube activation. It changed my whole sound. Number 1 recommendation I tell anyone with this amp.
The jhs box is cool, there's another called the Doc Watson Lion Tamer that plugs directly in to the effects loop, no cables required. I prefer that because it can live in the amp all the time
A good friend of mine, and a professional guitar player in Nashville, used this amp. It was always on the drive channel. The drive channel was on 11 and the rest of the amp was adjusted for a clean sound. Played through it many times and was never disappointed.
All very cool ideas, vastly easier is to pick up an Orange Crush 12 amplifier and you can get great tones at low volume and plays well with pedals. People may complain about lack of headroom. But it’s perfect for the home when you don’t want to piss off family (it can still piss off family) and it has exceptional bottom end despite its small 6” speaker. Keep the tube amplifiers for gigs and rehearsals. Too much work to get loud tube amplifiers to be quiet in a practice room. And some of these solutions still put mileage on the tubes, like the attenuator.
For me still the best solution is to change the first 12AX7 tube to a 12AU7 tube. The volume linearity becomes much more useable and still maintains dynamics.
in my rehearsal space i swapped the first AX7 to 12AY7 and the third to an 12AT7 amazing change and totally usable also a volume pot in the effects loop help a lot and gives a "master volume"
Put a simple potentiometer knob (or a Dunlop volume pedal, which is just a potentiometer) alone in the effects loop or last in the effects loop. Push the amp volume and master to high levels, even 7 or 8. But now you control sound level in the room with the potentiometer while maintaining the pushed tone. The tone is the great pushed fender tube amp tone but the sound level in the room is as quiet as you want. I did this after nearly getting rid of the amp in frustration. Now it sounds good and is easy and quiet as necessary. You can do all that other eq, pedals, and compressor, stuff upstream of the potentiometer if you need specific sounds. This really does work. I am now only using a Boss CP1X compressor and Blues Driver pedal upstream of the potentiometer volume knob in the effects loop. Its really has a lot of sonic and tone range in this really simple way. The way a. CP1X works is subtle and is an entire story all alone, I wont go there.
I'm glad you guys did a show on this. I've been using a JHS Black Box (FX loop attenuator) in my Blues Deluxe Reissue's FX loop for years so I can get a little overdrive from the amp, and it sounds fantastic.
A good EQ pedal is a must on my board, helps with so many things, compensating for different pick ups in guitars so my tone is consistent without having to adjust "Noel's knobs" , the way D & M show it here, using EQ to adjust the character of a backline amp, adjust your overall sound to compensate for a bad room. EQ is just a Swiss Arrmy knife of pedals, even can be used as a boost or drive depending on the brand EQ you have. I like Boss and MXR EQ pedals, sturdy, feature rich and affordable. Tried Compressors and Attenuation but could never get the sounds I wanted with those. D & M are great because they always show us there is more than one solution to our tone problems, no judgement on which is "better", just here are your options, go pick your favorite and apply it.
How bout buying a different fender model or half a dozen other brand amps that dont need all these fixes and sound glorious without out all the mumbo jumbo? If I have to fart around with an amp just to get a semi good tone from it, I`m not interested.
@@johnsmith-ug5tp i mean, i saw some hot rods for 320€ around in Italy, that's like super cheap. It's worth to understand how to solve a little issue imho. A volume pedal in the loop is absolutely standard for me, it doesn't seem to be too complicated LOL
That MXY EQ is one of the most genius pieces of kit almost any guitar player could afford> Putting that gain control on their was a chef's kiss thing to do...and I barely have hd the opportunity to really play wit mine.
I've used devilles for 20 years now and love them. Especially the very underrated drive channel (which I know some of you probably cringe at). My main amps now are a combination of a Magnatone Stereo Twilighter and JC-120 but man do I miss how simple the Deville was.
I had a U.S.A. made one years ago, was a nice amp but not for me. I think the funny thing with this amp is it’s 40 watts, that’s pretty loud, it’s not a bedroom amp, that’s for small gigs for sure. There are other options for a similar sound if that’s what you’re going for, my buddy has a blues junior and while it’s el84s instead of 6L6s they’re still very similar in tone. I went to lower wattage amps, my biggest is my vox night train head and I love it! Sounds great with my tele and LP and pretty much anything I’ve run into it! My other is a Fender Vibro Champ XD and it’s great too! Now if only the small Marshall heads weren’t as much as they are I’d have that too! I’d rather just mic it when I need more.
I just bought a Hot Rod Deluxe IV. The clean channel sounds REALLY nice. 2 things you can do to start with. * First plug in Input 2 (- 6db). * Second start with all the controls (Treble, Bass, Middle and Presence) at 0. Then slowly get them to suit the tone you like. I find the Hot Rod Deluxe sounds the best with all the tone controls at around 3 with Presence at 2 , and Bright Switch engaged. The Volume knob on the IV can be set to whisper volume if you tweak it delicately. It works even better with the 2 tips above. If you add OD pedals with a volume control like they explain in the beginning, it works even easier The advantage of this amp is it can sound big at low volumes, because of the cab, big transformers and 6L6 tubes. And you can go from bedroom to big venues, and everything in between. To me it's the best amp Fender makes for the money It's a fabulous pedal platform. And who attains real distortion from tube amps anyway, in any situation, these days , should it be 10 or 40 watts ? In the old days, there weren't any OD pedals. Today a good pedal sounds better than a dimed Fender
Ive been using a $40 volume switch directly into the effects loop also using channel 2 and it works perfect,it essentially a master volume control, I was wondering why you havent mentioned it. The one I use is (Dr Watson Lion Tamer volume module) there is other brands or it is easy enough to make your own for under $10 if your handy would love hear your take on this type of device for this application , to see if I am missing somthing. love the show keep it up boys.
I’ve had a 60watt 2x12 Deville since ‘06 that I’ve always struggled with due to the volume. This episode has offered some really good tips I’ll be trying out for sure! Thanks guys 👍🏻
Wampler has a great episode on how to build a pedal to act as a master volume and another on how to use the eq on the deville from way back, helped me a ton
I gig a Landau HR Deville weekly. Use input 1, Tumnus and Xotic BB in front with a SP comp, Timeline and Flint in the loop. I use a sound barrier around the amp with volume around 2.5-3. Sounds phenomenal. I’ve tried speaker attenuators but this gives me the best sonic result.
“Underdrive” - very clever! I’ve known about using my EQ pedal as a clean boost, but hadn’t thought of it also being able to do the opposite with a more dynamic amp. Extra thanks for including info about the effects loop (still a bit confusing for some of us). Great topic, gents 😃 👍
I know you guys like to be ultra modest about GigRig stuff in the name of objectivity (which is admirable!), but I'm super excited to see the Underliner in context!
Such an interesting show. The observation about why loud can sound so spiky and lacking in sustain through loud, high headroom amps hits it on the head. My own favorite amp tone is the Magnatone Twilighter stereo, which is two complete amps in one cab, has no effects loop and stays just a wee bit over 2 on the volume as a daily level. It sounds so glorious and I rarely use anything more than a Cali76 with it. Sometimes a Jester. And ARDX20. I just love that amp. But I treat it with respect, much like a lion which is said to be domesticated. Keep an eye on it. Don't do something silly, like hitting it with boost. Start any new pedal at low output and sneak up toward unity. I've learned the harsh way.
My HRD is such a trooper. played it everywhere from back yards to arenas and its never let me down. I actually prefer it over my twin anywhere, even places where I can turn my twin up.
This was the most useful and enlightening episode about music instruments ever for me. I first got a pre/power attenuator but never got the tones I knew were in the amp. Just now I went out and got a 10 band MXR and put it in the pre out/ power in output/inputs on my 410 65w Hot Rod deluxe from 2004 (or so). I now have a fabulous tone machine that makes all of my guitars - whoever the manufacturer - sound exponentially better (ie order of magnitude, power of 10, etc.). Thank you thank you thank you!
My solution is to change the first tube to a 12AY7, add a "Lion Tamer Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Master Volume Module" to the effect loop and change the speaker to a celestion cream alnico! Then you can push the volume to 5-6 and get a nice sound. And use the second input to get a bit lower volume as well. The Underliner seems fun tho.
@@ThatPedalShow Cool! looking forward to it. I really like reading the comments and seeing everyone's take on how to "solve" it. I did get a Victory v40 Deluxe Combo based on your recommendation for the next step from a HRD video and damn it, it is so smooth :D
Years ago, knowing nothing about amps at all, I bought a Blues Deluxe Reissue (for home use!) solely on the basis that I liked the tweed covering. It resulted in bewildered disappointment and becoming public enemy No. 1! I put a Boss CS2 in the effects loop and it was better. If only this video was available then - thanks chaps!
Great show lads! Very practical and informative. There was one other method which I’ve used on fender amps to tame volume jump; You zero all the channel eq, boost the volume up and then bring up the eq knobs to taste to kind of fine tune the volume while also sculpting the tone. Have a great weekend 🤘🏻
Really interesting. I had a Laney VC15 watt amp that had the same issue, it was unplayable for my circumstances. Anything above 1.5 on the volume was too loud, but also sounded rubbish. I now have a modern Vox AC10 and I can play it at full volume (it is loud but, but struggles over a drummer) and I have never been happier with the dynamics of an amp. I am considering buying another and running them together. Love your channel! I always learn so much.
Great video! Very instructive, as always. The Fender HRD is my main amp for quite a long time now (I own the first generation), so I was very interested to see this video. As many HDR owners, I encountered the same issues : too loud, can be very bright, etc. That's why I don't understand why you chose those settings on the HDR : bright cap engaged, treble above noon, less bass and less middle. It would have been also interesting to show the different EQ / settings possibilities on the amp before bringing out those solutions. Greetings!
It’s a good point. If you’re going for a round and gentle home sound maybe less treble and no bright switch would be nice. But we just find it to be too muddy. Cheers!
This is a perfect example of what I always say. Nice, high end gear (yes I know that’s relative to everyone) is not necessary to get good sounds. What nice high end gear really does is save time and gets you to what you want to hear immediately.
"You requested a DOS, but we got you a tin can on a string..." lol that blue channel on the Blackbird actually is a cleaned up hi-fi Dumble Overdrive Special circuit. :) The Green is a fender blackface, and the gain knob takes you from one to the other so you can find your *just right* spot in the range. The alternately switched Red channel extends that range out to max distortion. Single best tone pedal I've ever played.
Gentlemen, another great option (either in the loop or into the amp’s front end set very clean) is the Kingsley Hatchet (which is not listed on their web page, btw, but is available). The Hatchet does the job of the phase inverter, but has a volume (and tone) control. When used in the loop, this allows one to turn up the amp’s preamp to your liking, hitting the Hatchet as hard as you like for great slightly to “more” overdriven tones, but control overall volume with the Hatchet’s volume control. It can also be used to do the this before the front of amp if you can set the front of amp really clean (or before delay reverbs).
Fantastic video, and thank you, as always, for all of the thorough work you put into this! I've always used an attenuator with my AC30-esque amp for home volume and have been consistently underwhelmed. I'll often use the overdrive-as-limiter approach, but feel that I lose a lot of the character of the amp itself. Just tried a 10-band eq in the FX loop, followed by a compressor with a touch of dry signal blended in, and I love it. I never would have thought to do so prior to the experimentation you gents are kind enough to share with all of us. Thank you again!
Ah man, first time plugging into a HRD was one of those pivotal gear moments in my playing life. Was about 8 years in and my jaw dropped how cool my strat suddenly sounded. Other cool bits of gear have come and gone but that was def one of the biggest step-changes.
I moved the 12ax7 from position one and replaced it with an 12AT7. The control on the volume had a much better gradual response and was more natural incremental increase in volume.
Totally new on changing valves. Do you mean to remove the 12ax7 and replace with the other one? Just to be sure I understood well. I'm thinking about buying a hot rod as well, but I always face this problem in lots of channels. Another question: I want this amp for rehearshals and gigs specially. I wich volume starts to overdrive naturally the signal if you change valves? Thank you very much.
Thanks Leg Ends, Another great informative fun show. Learnt a lot and a great way to spend an hour in my warm bed while it lashed down outside. PEACE and LOVE to EVERYONE.
great analysis guys! the one thing I might add is NEVER use instrument cables with an attenuator (between amp and speaker), they MUST be speaker cables (ask me how I know!) cheers!
For those on a tight budget for a speaker attenuator check out the Bugera PS-1 Power Soak $120.00 USD a clone of the Mike Soldano Jet City JS-1. I have used it on my 50watt Plexi for over 4 years. It works great and I have had no problems with the unit or the amp. I can get usable sounds for a mic free backline at gigs to very quiet apt/flat with neighbors volumes to practice. The nice thing is I can get all the good power amp sound and sag where other methods compromise all that.
Thank you! This is the only amp I have owned, this really helps me understand it as I never was able to use it at home, and thought the way it sounds was something to do with my guitar or the way I played. Until recently I did not own any pedals and have practiced most of the time without plugging in. I just got a tone master pro in an attempt to play more through headphones as I had given up using this amp at home.
Great video as always. I've been gigging with a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe for a couple of years now and have used several of the Strategies you've gone over to manage the very spikey clean channel. I currently do 2 things that you did not discuss. 1. I use the 2nd input that drops the gain from the guitar enough so I can get the volume up to 3 or 3.5. The amp is still very dynamic, but is not so brutal. 2. I primarily use the much maligned drive channel. The way I use it, I set the drive around 3 to 4 and the master around 2.5-3.5 depending on the stage and PA setup. This makes the drive channel basically clean but with enough compression to keep the spikey transients in check. I then use boost, overdrive and/or fuzz for dirty tones. The "more drive" is also useful for those 'over the cliff' moments you need to go to 11 (or 12 in case of the HRD! :) )
While it may be obvious to many, this answers the question I’ve had about how to attenuate my little 5F1 with no effects loop. Just use a pedal! Thank you!
I’ve used a BOSS GE-7 in the loop for years as I had it already and didn’t care for attenuators as a whole. I never thought to include compressor too, but that makes sense.
I just got an Audio Source Programmable EQ2 and I've had some time to experiment with it taming a Pro Reverb set to 8 on the volume. Suhweet! It really does the trick! I bought the pedal in anticipation of soon getting a 5e3 (loud!) amp. And thanks to your suggestions - especially focused on using the Overdrive and the EQ - I'm confident I'm ready to tame the 5e3. Thanks to you both! I think I'll be visiting your merch shop soon as another way of saying "Thank you."
Mick, I'm guessing you guys wanted to keep this to single-channel amps, but just in case it might help anybody: in these situations, if the amp's got an overdrive channel, I just switch to that, turn the gain down low, and open up the master. I find that voicing differences often make OD channels (at low gain) work better with gain-stage pedals - less boom, less fizz, more mids. I had a recurring gig that required me to backline a Roland JC-120, an amp I hate, and OD/fuzz/distortion was awful into the clean channel. If I juuuust slightly cracked open the amp OD, however, it made everything so much easier.
It’s a great option in the HRD too! We should have covered that. In fact there are two or three other things we should have covered too, so there will be a follow up!
The 2nd input can do a lot of what you started out doing with the OD (underdrive) and EQ pedals in front of the amp. Also, one of the reasons a loud high headroom amp sounds spiky, is because we subconsciously pick softer, especially playing solo like this, and then when you hit it hard, the amp responds. When playing with a band, especially with an acoustic drummer, you’ll be picking harder at baseline, with less of a spike when you dig in a bit more. This is a loud amp, and you haven’t even used the Drive channel, with that absolutely deadly nonlinear Master.
Hey Dan and mick Fred here from Brooklyn NY I love the show and keep up the gd work. I learned so much about dialing in tones and the use of gain and less gain to get a great tone. Right on guys awesome.
Underdrive!! That's brilliant!! Love this show I've learned so much from you two!! Both gentleman are knowledgeable and likeable and your playing is awesome everyone should buy your merch for ALL the stuff you teach us!!
It seems a bit disingenuous to not mention the Doctor Watson Lion Tamer. It’s 20 quid & solves the problem with the minimal use of equipment. Essentially it turns the FX loop into a secondary master volume. It also controls the noise levels. Which is really noticeable on the ML212 Deville.
dang, how did I never think of running the overdrive into a volume-lowered eq pedal? Such an obvious idea, and works great, as you demonstrate. Thank you!
Love the Monty Python reference! Went to Scotland in 2016 saw all the castles they used in the movie. England would not let MP film in any castle there. I have modified a couple of Fender and Vox amps to lower the volume level. Great show, thanks so much!
I use a JHS Little Black Amp Box in the effects loop in my Blues Deville. Not a perfect solution, but it really helps. Also using a compressor in front of the anp can make a huge difference.
I have the same setup as you do and works pretty well for me. Not a perfect solution but I would venture to say it's the best solution from the ones presented in this episode.
Great show!!!! Tried a couple of these methods with my marshall origin 50 and my hiwatt heads .It's just so nice to know why it works and how. Cheers boys
Great video so helpful thanks guys. I’m a novice to the insides of an amp and have changed to the AY7 the pre amp input 1. For the first time ever I’ve got past volume 2 at home. That’s a start. Haven’t gigged it yet but very confident there’s enough there. Agree that out of the box the pre installed tube just sounds too harsh and too loud too quickly.
Thanks gentlemen. How fitting for me. I use a pair of Hot Rod Deluxe Mk IV amps for wet and a reissue 59 Bassman for dry in my TPS design wet/dry/wet rig. I want to keep the HRD4s clean but don’t want them to be overpoweringly loud or turned down so much that they are tinny. Much thought and experimentation to come. Thanks so much and my best to you both as always
Great video lads.. I’ve a mk2 model. Got it really cheap. I put a Creamback 75 speaker in and a tech sorted the volume pot to taper properly through the range. 5 is now where 2 was.
![Easy Ways To Tame The Fender Hot Rod Deluxe [Input 2, Dr Watson, Tube Changes & More!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YSqE6HNa3Gg/mqdefault.jpg)
![Easy Ways To Tame The Fender Hot Rod Deluxe [Input 2, Dr Watson, Tube Changes & More!]](/img/tr.png)
Oh thank you for using the El Cap. I know a lot of us do and it’s nice to hear what you can do with it. :) Also, I’m forever grateful that you guys do this show. Your friendship together, shared interest, entertainment and education you both give.. I’m not sure you could realise how much it means to some of us. The show really does make my world a better place, and I’m sure it does the same for many others too.
Thank you Clint! Best to you man. :0)
The show definitely puts extra sunshine in my day!! I look forward to every video and the hour passes way too quickly.
Same here
this show has helped my music career immensely
I cannot state it enough
Thank y’all
If you wanna check out my tunes check out super secret band
Owe these madmen across the water some credit for sure
Here here👍
👍
The Underliner provided the best demonstration of “amps sound better cranked” that I’ve ever heard. Thanks for what you do, gents.
As a former owner of a Hotrod DeVille, I always used the drive channel set fairly clean instead of the clean channel as it felt slightly warmer, quieter and more useable.
I do the same thing with my hotrod deluxe. Just sounds and feels better.
Yes that is true. Is warmer and with less bass but that channel does not react the same to pedals than the clean channel
I own a Blues DeVille 4x10 60W combo amp and I always had this kind of problem, until today. After watching your video, I had an idea to simply intall a Beringer 12AX7 MIC-100 tube preamp in the effects loop of the amp. This fixed the problem without losing tone. The configuration: Guitar -> Pedal Board -> Amp In. Than on the effects loop: Amp loop send (Preamp Out) -> MIC-100 -> Amp loop return (Power Amp In). Than I adjusted the volume knobs and now it sounds gorgeous and controllable. Thanks for the idea. MIC-100 has only Volume In and Volume Out controls, it does not have EQ controls. The valve in the MIC-100 Preamp is a sigle 12AX7. Try this, it works!
The first thing I would do with a Hot Rod Deluxe IV is swap the first two preamp 12AX7s for 12AY7s, and the phase inverter 12AX7 for a 12AU7. If it's still too loud, stick a volume control in the effects loop, all you need is a passive voltage divider.
Exactly! 👍
This is what I did as well. Think there’s an old Phil McKnight video on it. It really tames that amp and spreads the volume across the vol lot better as well. I think the George benson comes with these tubes in stock.
Too overkill. That way the quietest drummer will drown all your sound
I find that a 12AT7 in the phase inverter (V3) solved the clean headroom problem for me. I don't much care for the drive channel so I use a StewMac EC Expander pedal into their Ghost Drive Klon clone for distortion and I never have to take it over 4 on the clean channel. It's an extremely bright amp so I have a Boss EQ7 pedal at the end of the signal chain to tame the midst. And instead of my regular guitar mics I use a LD condenser mic to record (doesn't work well on stage though).
@@madscientistdave have you tried changing the Mid cap (C6) from .022 uF to .015 uF?
I've had my Hot Rod Deluxe for like 8 years now! I put a passive attenuator in the FX Loop and it's been a dream ever since
Same here. Works perfectly
Me too. Mine has a -24dB to -6dB Range and i have my HR volume at 4 and everything is great. I use -24dB for home, and -6dB for gigs, all other settings stay the same
Didn’t quite finish the episode yet but one thing that comes to mind on this one is how I feel like your guys are explaining things that I’ve been subconsciously trying to achieve for years
Hoooray! That is our hope!
I was just looking at one of these at the local guitar gear shelter here, and was considering rescuing it, and seeing this video and reading all the great comments and tips about it have led me to conclude it will indeed be finding its way home to me later today. Thank you very much for making the division of my estate that much more difficult for my family. I may even rescue that D&M Drive they have.
DIY fx loop attennuator is really easy to build. Cut a patch cable i two. Both ground cables on pole 3. Tip 1 on pole 1, tip 2 on pole 2 on a 100k pot. The amp start to hit the compression between 3 and 4 on the input volume. (There are drawings on this if you seach the net)
Another hack is to change the 6L6 tubes with 6V6 tubes. 6V6 has less output. (Not possible from 6v6 to 6L6)
As a Hot Rod Deluxe owner for years, I've always struggled with this. Recently settled on putting a JHS Little Black Amp Box in the effect loop. I also changed one of the pre-amp tubes, but I may put the original back. Awesome to see and hear all of these options, and to have you guys go into so much depth! Appreciate the vid! :D
you should put the originals tubes back and get an eq pedal, i also have a hot rod and using my volume knobs on my od and fuzz plus my eq and jhs amp box i can use the amp comfortably at like 4-6 and when i wanna push it i can go up to 10 but i do sacrifice not having my actual tone because at that point im just gain staging all the pedals for max volume which is a nice sound ( this is the tone most people reach for ) but i actually feel like if you avoid simply gain staging for volume and you let the pedals show their colors more you get more unique tones
also a huge tip on overdrive and especially distortion, if you have a good clean base, you dont need to dirty the signal as much as you think if you use the amps natural loudness/gain to power the pedals so that your pedals dont have to go from 2 on the knobs to 8 for you to hear a difference in the tone
@@cheeseboy075 That's a great tip! Thanks for the reply!
I do have an EQ pedal on my board, but I run it in the front of my amp to remove a few harsh frequencies from my admittedly high gain pedals (I love scooping my mids... don't judge me!). I've been thinking about moving it to the effects loop recently though, so I'll probably do that on my next board edit. I'll certainly try cranking the amp though to see what kind of dirty tones I can get.
All that said, even with just the JHS amp box, I usually run my amp at 6 or 7 and it's pretty comfortable... albeit with tamer tubes.
I've heard that You can use a second hand ecc83 that now has a lower power rating in v1- Being between an ecc83 and ecc81
I put a 5751 in V1 on my blues deluxe, works much better and tames it a lot as it has 70% of the 12ax7 tube@@ARONHALLAM
" taming volume in a loud clean amp, but retaining a little bit of feel and dynamics."
Never clicked so fast on a TPS upload, or any other upload for that matter! This is perhaps the #1 problem I have to deal with as a hobbyist guitarist. I don't use a HRD but I do have a couple of fairly loud clean amps. Thank you Dan & Mick.
Legends, you are.
I often use the separate preamp into FX loop return and it's a great way to go.
Really love this episode for showing a lot of creative ways to solve a very common problem without it being constrained the way a gear demo can be. Mick's comment about this all boiling down to gain staging was very illuminating.
Here's a funny story about a Blues Deluxe amp (at least it's funny to me). I was a gigging musician using this amp in clubs mostly on 2.5 volume for years. We got hired to headline a motorcycle club open air gig in the middle of summer 2009 and as we approached the venue, I was thrilled when I saw that the club rented out a massive line array PA that was just used in a stadium concert I was at a month prior. So long story short, my first though was - oh I will finally get to play my amp at a decent volume setting. So the tone rehearsal started as it usually does about 2-3 hours before the crowd showed up, and I put the amp on 4.5 volume. After about a minute in I heard the sound guy through the wedges... You can guess already? "Turn down the guitar amp, the stage volume is too high". It was as if he ripped my heart out. I ended up on 2.5 just like in small clubs lol. That's a Deluxe amp without an attenuator for ya.
Hi there chaps, Love your work.
I had a Hot Rod IV with a very efficient cannabis-rex speaker (101+dB). I think it trained me to be a better player, but I also think it crippled my playing in secondary ways. All spike and no sustain, all headroom and no compression. All mid range barking, and little else for tone.
Once I got a princeton clone with a 12", I could hear the amp respond in a way the HRDX did not.
I did not know what I was missing, why I sounded shite, until I realised the HRDX is not a home amp.
No, it doesn't fix the problem with a volume pot in the fx loop, not with a compressor, not with an underdrive.
(ed: I even tried lower gain tubes in V1, V2 to change the sound, for clean and drive, 5751, 12ay7, etc, and in the end the amp just still mostly does what it does.)
With all that considered, we may as well be using a PA speaker and an amp sim.
I even tried using a strymon iridium into the fx loop return (cab sim turned off). Yeah okay, but, that's not really what this amp is for.
The amp is a dud until you can turn it up. No little fix can help it.
Then, when it's loud, you change all your settings and hear how it becomes a different beast.
If you can't do over 103dB or so all the time, do not buy this amp. It is the wrong product. There are many others in the same price range. Stick a mic in front of a smaller amp, and you will have a nicer time.
Love from a schwanger who learned a lesson.
Seriously everyone needs to stop trying to love this amp which requires extra products to make it practical. (ed I spent money on pedals I didn't need, to try to save this amp, before I knew better)
The price of the amp, plus the extra products you want to help it, add up to the price of a better amp.
There are lots of other amps out there.
If you have a hot rod, because it looked nice on paper and was affordable, and you can't be disgustingly loud, just accept this is the wrong amp for you.
That'll save you time and money.
Buy something else, choose life! (a blues jr has similar problems at a smaller scale, so don't do that either, goddam farty spikey shit..)
Great tips. I've had my HRD for 15 years now and over time learned these things through trial and error. Had a tech replace the volume and master knobs (from linear to audio taper), and tried everything I heard about to tame the volume because every show, the sound person asked me to turn down. I tried different tubes, an attenuator, and everything else shown in this video. In my experience, the attenuator and lower-powered tubes really killed the base sound of the amp, so I'm now at a point where I have all my pedals going into the front of the amp with a volume pedal at the end of my chain, and also I put a simple passive volume box in the loop (I made mine, but you can buy one online, it's just like a volume knob on your guitar, but built into a pedal box). This way I can crank all of my drive pedals and pull the output down with the volume pedal before it even gets to the amp. And I can turn the amp volume knob as high as I want and pull that down with the volume box in the loop. I also always have on a boost for single coil guitars, which just helps put a sparkle into the pure clean tone. Also note that the amp's inputs 1 and 2 have a big difference in terms of sound (1 is hotter than 2, so in my experience it comes across brighter and louder) and are good to experiment with as well. One other thing not mentioned -- people always complain about the drive channel on the amp, but the real problem is that the EQ is shared between the clean and the drive channels. It's really hard find one EQ setting that works equally well for both channels. Putting an EQ pedal in the loop is not only one option to tame the volume, but it also lets you dial in a whole different EQ for the drive channel. So you can set your clean tone via the amp EQ knobs, and then when you hit the channel switcher you can also hit your EQ pedal in the loop to affect the amp's drive channel -- this makes it so you can set both channels to be awesome, it just takes a little setup and practice with hitting the switches. All in all, this is a really versatile amp when you use a few little tricks to sculpt your sound through the massive volume output it can have. If you only do one thing, put a passive volume knob or pedal in the loop, turn it down a little, and tweak your sound from there.
I managed to listen to this video with the sound of my speakers turned way down, only using my right ear (because of my sudden hearing loss that I mentioned in the comments in the previous video).
I want to congratulate Dan with the Underliner. This might be the solution for me to still play guitar. It sounds like the amp, while most attenuators do change the sound (like my Two-Notes Torpedo).
Thanks Dan.
Thanks so much, but so sorry to learn of your hearing loss. Hoping things get better for you soon 🤓🙏
My dad is in his 80's and told me his amp stopped working, I brought it home figured I'd try some experiments, clean it etc. I plug in my Randall 4x12 Cab completely caught off guard, OMG the volume is tremendous. That Randall I own is a 120 Watt and made to Chug Metal and this little Fender with the Sovtek groove tubes blows it out of the water in sheer volume. My Dad doesn't have an amp problem he just pluged his speaker into the wrong jack, lol. Now I don't want to give back his Amp (I will but I don't want to), I could totally Gig with this amp and just bring my pedal board for the gain and tones I need.
Nice take on what can be done to make this amp “bedroom friendly” and customizable. Love the hot rod… it’s a fender standard on its own. It’s a sweet gigger for sure. Last thing always: find your sound that works for you and the band; have a blast!
Fantastic video guys, I have a Classic 30 and have been trying the EQ in the loop and your compression adds more to the sound. Enjoy the channel. Side note, I found myself trying Micks eye glass trick while watching. 😂🤓❤️
Once I put the JHS little black box through the loop, being able to push the tubes and get less poke. More tube activation. It changed my whole sound.
Number 1 recommendation I tell anyone with this amp.
The jhs box is cool, there's another called the Doc Watson Lion Tamer that plugs directly in to the effects loop, no cables required. I prefer that because it can live in the amp all the time
A good friend of mine, and a professional guitar player in Nashville, used this amp. It was always on the drive channel. The drive channel was on 11 and the rest of the amp was adjusted for a clean sound. Played through it many times and was never disappointed.
Great way to do it!
All very cool ideas, vastly easier is to pick up an Orange Crush 12 amplifier and you can get great tones at low volume and plays well with pedals. People may complain about lack of headroom. But it’s perfect for the home when you don’t want to piss off family (it can still piss off family) and it has exceptional bottom end despite its small 6” speaker. Keep the tube amplifiers for gigs and rehearsals. Too much work to get loud tube amplifiers to be quiet in a practice room. And some of these solutions still put mileage on the tubes, like the attenuator.
For me still the best solution is to change the first 12AX7 tube to a 12AU7 tube. The volume linearity becomes much more useable and still maintains dynamics.
Agreed!
12AT7?
12ay7!
Speaker attenuator makes my tubes a bit crackly. Yes, probably an indicator of a different problem but it sounds great without it, so.
in my rehearsal space i swapped the first AX7 to 12AY7 and the third to an 12AT7
amazing change and totally usable
also a volume pot in the effects loop help a lot and gives a "master volume"
Put a simple potentiometer knob (or a Dunlop volume pedal, which is just a potentiometer) alone in the effects loop or last in the effects loop. Push the amp volume and master to high levels, even 7 or 8. But now you control sound level in the room with the potentiometer while maintaining the pushed tone. The tone is the great pushed fender tube amp tone but the sound level in the room is as quiet as you want. I did this after nearly getting rid of the amp in frustration. Now it sounds good and is easy and quiet as necessary. You can do all that other eq, pedals, and compressor, stuff upstream of the potentiometer if you need specific sounds. This really does work. I am now only using a Boss CP1X compressor and Blues Driver pedal upstream of the potentiometer volume knob in the effects loop. Its really has a lot of sonic and tone range in this really simple way. The way a. CP1X works is subtle and is an entire story all alone, I wont go there.
I'm glad you guys did a show on this. I've been using a JHS Black Box (FX loop attenuator) in my Blues Deluxe Reissue's FX loop for years so I can get a little overdrive from the amp, and it sounds fantastic.
Great way to do it!
He nailed it. Use the Little Black Box. Hence, giving the Fender a Mesa like control.
They take about ten minutes to make your own JHS black box..there’s a few videos on here on how to make one ..👍👍
A good EQ pedal is a must on my board, helps with so many things, compensating for different pick ups in guitars so my tone is consistent without having to adjust "Noel's knobs" , the way D & M show it here, using EQ to adjust the character of a backline amp, adjust your overall sound to compensate for a bad room. EQ is just a Swiss Arrmy knife of pedals, even can be used as a boost or drive depending on the brand EQ you have. I like Boss and MXR EQ pedals, sturdy, feature rich and affordable. Tried Compressors and Attenuation but could never get the sounds I wanted with those. D & M are great because they always show us there is more than one solution to our tone problems, no judgement on which is "better", just here are your options, go pick your favorite and apply it.
Cool way to do it is to put a volume pedal (or any of the devices you mentioned) in the loop but to push the preamp into overdrive. Sounds fantastic!
How bout buying a different fender model or half a dozen other brand amps that dont need all these fixes and sound glorious without out all the mumbo jumbo? If I have to fart around with an amp just to get a semi good tone from it, I`m not interested.
@@johnsmith-ug5tp farting around is part of the fun, for some of us :-)
@@johnsmith-ug5tp i mean, i saw some hot rods for 320€ around in Italy, that's like super cheap. It's worth to understand how to solve a little issue imho.
A volume pedal in the loop is absolutely standard for me, it doesn't seem to be too complicated LOL
@@geoffbannister8373 Thats fine, Just not my cup of tea. 😉
@@FabrizioPeretti definitely, I bought mine used an battered for 300€ ten years ago.
That MXY EQ is one of the most genius pieces of kit almost any guitar player could afford> Putting that gain control on their was a chef's kiss thing to do...and I barely have hd the opportunity to really play wit mine.
“Noel’s Knobs” is absolutely my most favorite new thing you have come up with in a while😂
I've used devilles for 20 years now and love them. Especially the very underrated drive channel (which I know some of you probably cringe at). My main amps now are a combination of a Magnatone Stereo Twilighter and JC-120 but man do I miss how simple the Deville was.
Not at all - we like the drive channel!
I had a U.S.A. made one years ago, was a nice amp but not for me. I think the funny thing with this amp is it’s 40 watts, that’s pretty loud, it’s not a bedroom amp, that’s for small gigs for sure. There are other options for a similar sound if that’s what you’re going for, my buddy has a blues junior and while it’s el84s instead of 6L6s they’re still very similar in tone. I went to lower wattage amps, my biggest is my vox night train head and I love it! Sounds great with my tele and LP and pretty much anything I’ve run into it! My other is a Fender Vibro Champ XD and it’s great too! Now if only the small Marshall heads weren’t as much as they are I’d have that too! I’d rather just mic it when I need more.
I just bought a Hot Rod Deluxe IV. The clean channel sounds REALLY nice.
2 things you can do to start with.
* First plug in Input 2 (- 6db).
* Second start with all the controls (Treble, Bass, Middle and Presence) at 0.
Then slowly get them to suit the tone you like.
I find the Hot Rod Deluxe sounds the best with all the tone controls at around 3 with Presence at 2 , and Bright Switch engaged.
The Volume knob on the IV can be set to whisper volume if you tweak it delicately. It works even better with the 2 tips above.
If you add OD pedals with a volume control like they explain in the beginning, it works even easier
The advantage of this amp is it can sound big at low volumes, because of the cab, big transformers and 6L6 tubes.
And you can go from bedroom to big venues, and everything in between.
To me it's the best amp Fender makes for the money
It's a fabulous pedal platform. And who attains real distortion from tube amps anyway, in any situation, these days , should it be 10 or 40 watts ?
In the old days, there weren't any OD pedals.
Today a good pedal sounds better than a dimed Fender
Ive been using a $40 volume switch directly into the effects loop also using channel 2 and it works perfect,it essentially a master volume control, I was wondering why you havent mentioned it. The one I use is (Dr Watson Lion Tamer volume module) there is other brands or it is easy enough to make your own for under $10 if your handy
would love hear your take on this type of device for this application , to see if I am missing somthing.
love the show keep it up boys.
I checked the price of the Blackbird -it’s like 1,000$, so I’d prefer cheaper option 😅…
I’ve had a 60watt 2x12 Deville since ‘06 that I’ve always struggled with due to the volume. This episode has offered some really good tips I’ll be trying out for sure! Thanks guys 👍🏻
Wampler has a great episode on how to build a pedal to act as a master volume and another on how to use the eq on the deville from way back, helped me a ton
I gig a Landau HR Deville weekly. Use input 1, Tumnus and Xotic BB in front with a SP comp, Timeline and Flint in the loop. I use a sound barrier around the amp with volume around 2.5-3. Sounds phenomenal. I’ve tried speaker attenuators but this gives me the best sonic result.
“Underdrive” - very clever! I’ve known about using my EQ pedal as a clean boost, but hadn’t thought of it also being able to do the opposite with a more dynamic amp. Extra thanks for including info about the effects loop (still a bit confusing for some of us). Great topic, gents 😃 👍
I know you guys like to be ultra modest about GigRig stuff in the name of objectivity (which is admirable!), but I'm super excited to see the Underliner in context!
Thanks Stu 🤓🙏
First real amp I ever bought, and my apartment building hated me. Thanks for doing this!
This video was influential in my decision to buy a second hand Deluxe. Great amp, great video!
Such an interesting show. The observation about why loud can sound so spiky and lacking in sustain through loud, high headroom amps hits it on the head. My own favorite amp tone is the Magnatone Twilighter stereo, which is two complete amps in one cab, has no effects loop and stays just a wee bit over 2 on the volume as a daily level. It sounds so glorious and I rarely use anything more than a Cali76 with it. Sometimes a Jester. And ARDX20. I just love that amp. But I treat it with respect, much like a lion which is said to be domesticated. Keep an eye on it. Don't do something silly, like hitting it with boost. Start any new pedal at low output and sneak up toward unity. I've learned the harsh way.
I have a '96 Deville. I just ordered a EQ. Thank you guys so much for this.
My HRD is such a trooper. played it everywhere from back yards to arenas and its never let me down. I actually prefer it over my twin anywhere, even places where I can turn my twin up.
This was the most useful and enlightening episode about music instruments ever for me. I first got a pre/power attenuator but never got the tones I knew were in the amp. Just now I went out and got a 10 band MXR and put it in the pre out/ power in output/inputs on my 410 65w Hot Rod deluxe from 2004 (or so). I now have a fabulous tone machine that makes all of my guitars - whoever the manufacturer - sound exponentially better (ie order of magnitude, power of 10, etc.). Thank you thank you thank you!
Fun show. I really look forward these every week! It’s my favorite show.
My solution is to change the first tube to a 12AY7, add a "Lion Tamer Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Master Volume Module" to the effect loop and change the speaker to a celestion cream alnico! Then you can push the volume to 5-6 and get a nice sound. And use the second input to get a bit lower volume as well.
The Underliner seems fun tho.
Nice! We’re good to do a follow up to cover the more basic suggestions coming through. Cheers!
@@ThatPedalShow Cool! looking forward to it. I really like reading the comments and seeing everyone's take on how to "solve" it.
I did get a Victory v40 Deluxe Combo based on your recommendation for the next step from a HRD video and damn it, it is so smooth :D
I’m going to try liontamer; was ready to sell the HRD thx
all kinds of great ideas in this -- had no idea the video would provide so many alternatives, thanks again!
Years ago, knowing nothing about amps at all, I bought a Blues Deluxe Reissue (for home use!) solely on the basis that I liked the tweed covering. It resulted in bewildered disappointment and becoming public enemy No. 1! I put a Boss CS2 in the effects loop and it was better. If only this video was available then - thanks chaps!
Great show lads! Very practical and informative. There was one other method which I’ve used on fender amps to tame volume jump; You zero all the channel eq, boost the volume up and then bring up the eq knobs to taste to kind of fine tune the volume while also sculpting the tone. Have a great weekend 🤘🏻
Thanks guys and greetings from Greece.
I have a HRD IV and do exactly these things with pedals to tame it.
This amp is fantastic!!!
Great stuff. Gives me fresh ideas for taming volume while shaping tone.
Really interesting. I had a Laney VC15 watt amp that had the same issue, it was unplayable for my circumstances. Anything above 1.5 on the volume was too loud, but also sounded rubbish. I now have a modern Vox AC10 and I can play it at full volume (it is loud but, but struggles over a drummer) and I have never been happier with the dynamics of an amp. I am considering buying another and running them together. Love your channel! I always learn so much.
Great video! Very instructive, as always. The Fender HRD is my main amp for quite a long time now (I own the first generation), so I was very interested to see this video. As many HDR owners, I encountered the same issues : too loud, can be very bright, etc. That's why I don't understand why you chose those settings on the HDR : bright cap engaged, treble above noon, less bass and less middle. It would have been also interesting to show the different EQ / settings possibilities on the amp before bringing out those solutions. Greetings!
It’s a good point. If you’re going for a round and gentle home sound maybe less treble and no bright switch would be nice. But we just find it to be too muddy. Cheers!
This is a perfect example of what I always say. Nice, high end gear (yes I know that’s relative to everyone) is not necessary to get good sounds. What nice high end gear really does is save time and gets you to what you want to hear immediately.
"You requested a DOS, but we got you a tin can on a string..." lol that blue channel on the Blackbird actually is a cleaned up hi-fi Dumble Overdrive Special circuit. :) The Green is a fender blackface, and the gain knob takes you from one to the other so you can find your *just right* spot in the range. The alternately switched Red channel extends that range out to max distortion. Single best tone pedal I've ever played.
Gentlemen, another great option (either in the loop or into the amp’s front end set very clean) is the Kingsley Hatchet (which is not listed on their web page, btw, but is available). The Hatchet does the job of the phase inverter, but has a volume (and tone) control. When used in the loop, this allows one to turn up the amp’s preamp to your liking, hitting the Hatchet as hard as you like for great slightly to “more” overdriven tones, but control overall volume with the Hatchet’s volume control. It can also be used to do the this before the front of amp if you can set the front of amp really clean (or before delay reverbs).
It’s sooooo cool. Simon brought one in just recently. EPIC bit of kit.
Man you guys are helpful. Thank you for this episode
Fantastic video, and thank you, as always, for all of the thorough work you put into this! I've always used an attenuator with my AC30-esque amp for home volume and have been consistently underwhelmed. I'll often use the overdrive-as-limiter approach, but feel that I lose a lot of the character of the amp itself. Just tried a 10-band eq in the FX loop, followed by a compressor with a touch of dry signal blended in, and I love it. I never would have thought to do so prior to the experimentation you gents are kind enough to share with all of us. Thank you again!
the fx loop return tip was a life saver! thanks!
Had a good laugh when Dan played Huey Lewis’ “Power of Love”. I’ve been playing that one in my band and it’s a really fun song to play.
I thought thats what that was 🤣Me and my daughter are putting together a huge Lego DeLorean with light up flux capacitor 😂
Ah man, first time plugging into a HRD was one of those pivotal gear moments in my playing life. Was about 8 years in and my jaw dropped how cool my strat suddenly sounded. Other cool bits of gear have come and gone but that was def one of the biggest step-changes.
I moved the 12ax7 from position one and replaced it with an 12AT7. The control on the volume had a much better gradual response and was more natural incremental increase in volume.
Nice! Great tip, thank you!
Totally new on changing valves. Do you mean to remove the 12ax7 and replace with the other one? Just to be sure I understood well. I'm thinking about buying a hot rod as well, but I always face this problem in lots of channels. Another question: I want this amp for rehearshals and gigs specially. I wich volume starts to overdrive naturally the signal if you change valves? Thank you very much.
The back door attenuator. Nice. Never thought about it that way. Excellent work.
Thanks Leg Ends, Another great informative fun show. Learnt a lot and a great way to spend an hour in my warm bed while it lashed down outside. PEACE and LOVE to EVERYONE.
great analysis guys! the one thing I might add is NEVER use instrument cables with an attenuator (between amp and speaker), they MUST be speaker cables (ask me how I know!) cheers!
For those on a tight budget for a speaker attenuator check out the Bugera PS-1 Power Soak $120.00 USD a clone of the Mike Soldano Jet City JS-1. I have used it on my 50watt Plexi for over 4 years. It works great and I have had no problems with the unit or the amp. I can get usable sounds for a mic free backline at gigs to very quiet apt/flat with neighbors volumes to practice. The nice thing is I can get all the good power amp sound and sag where other methods compromise all that.
Thank you! This is the only amp I have owned, this really helps me understand it as I never was able to use it at home, and thought the way it sounds was something to do with my guitar or the way I played. Until recently I did not own any pedals and have practiced most of the time without plugging in. I just got a tone master pro in an attempt to play more through headphones as I had given up using this amp at home.
I'm just remembering that I used to have a Hughes and Kettner Tube Factor which worked well via input 2, which is no longer made.
Great video as always. I've been gigging with a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe for a couple of years now and have used several of the Strategies you've gone over to manage the very spikey clean channel. I currently do 2 things that you did not discuss.
1. I use the 2nd input that drops the gain from the guitar enough so I can get the volume up to 3 or 3.5. The amp is still very dynamic, but is not so brutal.
2. I primarily use the much maligned drive channel. The way I use it, I set the drive around 3 to 4 and the master around 2.5-3.5 depending on the stage and PA setup. This makes the drive channel basically clean but with enough compression to keep the spikey transients in check. I then use boost, overdrive and/or fuzz for dirty tones. The "more drive" is also useful for those 'over the cliff' moments you need to go to 11 (or 12 in case of the HRD! :) )
Nice! Both Dan and I like the drive channel too. It’s a much misunderstood beast!
@@ThatPedalShow So True! You have to approach it differently that other drive channels I've used over the years.
This is so informitiv, thanks a lot guys I learned a lot.
While it may be obvious to many, this answers the question I’ve had about how to attenuate my little 5F1 with no effects loop. Just use a pedal! Thank you!
I put a JHS little black amp box in the FX loop. Works great.
I’ve used a BOSS GE-7 in the loop for years as I had it already and didn’t care for attenuators as a whole. I never thought to include compressor too, but that makes sense.
I just got an Audio Source Programmable EQ2 and I've had some time to experiment with it taming a Pro Reverb set to 8 on the volume. Suhweet! It really does the trick! I bought the pedal in anticipation of soon getting a 5e3 (loud!) amp. And thanks to your suggestions - especially focused on using the Overdrive and the EQ - I'm confident I'm ready to tame the 5e3. Thanks to you both! I think I'll be visiting your merch shop soon as another way of saying "Thank you."
Mick, I'm guessing you guys wanted to keep this to single-channel amps, but just in case it might help anybody: in these situations, if the amp's got an overdrive channel, I just switch to that, turn the gain down low, and open up the master. I find that voicing differences often make OD channels (at low gain) work better with gain-stage pedals - less boom, less fizz, more mids. I had a recurring gig that required me to backline a Roland JC-120, an amp I hate, and OD/fuzz/distortion was awful into the clean channel. If I juuuust slightly cracked open the amp OD, however, it made everything so much easier.
It’s a great option in the HRD too! We should have covered that. In fact there are two or three other things we should have covered too, so there will be a follow up!
Love you guys. Thank you for taking the time to point out some not so obvious and needed to be clarified facts along the way.
The 2nd input can do a lot of what you started out doing with the OD (underdrive) and EQ pedals in front of the amp. Also, one of the reasons a loud high headroom amp sounds spiky, is because we subconsciously pick softer, especially playing solo like this, and then when you hit it hard, the amp responds. When playing with a band, especially with an acoustic drummer, you’ll be picking harder at baseline, with less of a spike when you dig in a bit more. This is a loud amp, and you haven’t even used the Drive channel, with that absolutely deadly nonlinear Master.
Hey Dan and mick Fred here from Brooklyn NY I love the show and keep up the gd work. I learned so much about dialing in tones and the use of gain and less gain to get a great tone. Right on guys awesome.
Great show guys. Lots to chew on here. Thank you.
Underdrive!! That's brilliant!! Love this show I've learned so much from you two!! Both gentleman are knowledgeable and likeable and your playing is awesome everyone should buy your merch for ALL the stuff you teach us!!
Cheers Jimmy, you’re most welcome 🙏
It seems a bit disingenuous to not mention the Doctor Watson Lion Tamer. It’s 20 quid & solves the problem with the minimal use of equipment. Essentially it turns the FX loop into a secondary master volume. It also controls the noise levels. Which is really noticeable on the ML212 Deville.
There are lots of such devices available. But this is the first we’ve heard of this one!
Swap the first preamp tube from a 12aX7 to a 12aY7. Makes a massive difference
Very interesting and eye opening show today fellas. Thank you!
I don’t watch TPS for normal budget content but it’s bloody brilliant when it comes along! (as a normal budget player!)
dang, how did I never think of running the overdrive into a volume-lowered eq pedal? Such an obvious idea, and works great, as you demonstrate. Thank you!
Love the Monty Python reference! Went to Scotland in 2016 saw all the castles they used in the movie. England would not let MP film in any castle there.
I have modified a couple of Fender and Vox amps to lower the volume level.
Great show, thanks so much!
Makes me think of the old Phillip McKnight video about swapping pre amp tubes on the Hot Rod Deluxe.
Very interesting video guys, I learned a lot today! Thank you!
I use a JHS Little Black Amp Box in the effects loop in my Blues Deville. Not a perfect solution, but it really helps. Also using a compressor in front of the anp can make a huge difference.
I have the same setup as you do and works pretty well for me. Not a perfect solution but I would venture to say it's the best solution from the ones presented in this episode.
Great show guys. Really enjoyed your perception of the use of the
FX loop using rack gear for so long the refresher truly helped. Thanks and Cheers!
I have similar troubles with my little Vox practice amp. Will definitely try this out. Essential channel, keep up the excellent work guys!
Great show!!!! Tried a couple of these methods with my marshall origin 50 and my hiwatt heads .It's just so nice to know why it works and how. Cheers boys
Dan’s performance with Red tonight was superb!
Lovely stuff, gents. Thanks for this - lots of strategies to explore. 👍
Nice episode. I have a 60 watt Deville and use a volume pot in the effects loop to act as a master volume on the clean channel. Works well for me.
I built one of those volume boxes that Brian Wampler did a video on. Works like a charm
Nobels, the first pedal where all knobs aren't at 1 o'clock. Great episode guys!
Great video so helpful thanks guys. I’m a novice to the insides of an amp and have changed to the AY7 the pre amp input 1. For the first time ever I’ve got past volume 2 at home. That’s a start. Haven’t gigged it yet but very confident there’s enough there. Agree that out of the box the pre installed tube just sounds too harsh and too loud too quickly.
Mick and Dan, taking it in the ear so we don’t have to. Forever our saviours.
I owned a Deville 4x10 at one time. Man was it LOUD and heavy!!!!
Thanks gentlemen. How fitting for me. I use a pair of Hot Rod Deluxe Mk IV amps for wet and a reissue 59 Bassman for dry in my TPS design wet/dry/wet rig. I want to keep the HRD4s clean but don’t want them to be overpoweringly loud or turned down so much that they are tinny. Much thought and experimentation to come. Thanks so much and my best to you both as always
Great video lads.. I’ve a mk2 model. Got it really cheap. I put a Creamback 75 speaker in and a tech sorted the volume pot to taper properly through the range. 5 is now where 2 was.
Nice!