Bought some stereo speakers in the 90’s...the guy in the shop said “be careful you don’t stop listening to the music, and start listening to the speaker, it’s a dangerous path”...wise words...😁😁😁... funny how that stuck in my head....
Many, many, many years ago What Hi-Fi used to run a readers rig page. One annoying twat had a hi-fi, bought using a loan that mummy and daddy had to guarantee, and then said that sometimes he listened to music that he didn’t like, to hear the nuances of the kit, and that he also just sat and looked at it. Never has someone needed a punch in the face more !
@@brymills yea that sounds indeed exceptionally punchable. i personally feel that unless the difference is something i probably can't replicate with EQ and tone knobs, i don't care. i get that with certain gear you want the stock sound as close to what you want to hear. but all this won't matter anyways, if you waste all your practice time with browsing gear. i'd focus mostly on detail in the frequencies since you can always dial back frequencies you don't want...i guess. i'd honestly want more videos about that. trying to make different stuff the same. because then it becomes more about range and versatility i think.
Same goes for actually playing the guitar and not getting caught up in faffing about with NOS valves, pickups, capacitors etc. If you listen to the tone too much you get lost and never play. If you just play then you tend to naturally play to the tone's strengths and weaknesses.
@@layingblacklines best thing to do, buy a 1 pickup guitar. Sometimes more is too much, I see so many people where they are a slave to buying new pedals etc, slow down, dial an amp in have a few pedals but play more, practice more, hone your skills rather than try and buy new skills
@@jebusgod I have several axes with VERY different personalities and they make me play differently in a good way. I also play through a Marshall, an AC 30, a hot rod deluxe and an H&K. All have different speakers. It gives me an incredible experience, it’s just what you’ve into and what you want to carry or pay someone to carry. You can’t be down on folks for what they hear. Hell, we would have never had Jimmy, Stevie Ray, Gilmore etc without lots of different gear and axes.
Pete’s comments in the beginning ala the v30 are so spot on. The awesome sound you get in a bedroom situation is not what you want live. My rule of thumb is dial in my tone, then crank it up, turn the gain down and the mids up. What I end up with is a great live sound that sounds a little weak, and harsh at low volume. Best advice I’ve ever gotten is always play as close as possible to gigging with a drummer volume, and play standing up. If you’re trying to figure something out or create something sitting is ok but if you’re practicing to get better and play live, play loud, and stand up. Imho
I know Cap hated it, but I'd love to see more speaker shootouts. Absolutely the best video you have ever done. Speakers, and cabinets make as much difference to your tone as the amp itself. Good decision choosing the SM7b for the mics btw. The larger diagram probably limited the clinical precision of a smaller dynamic mic like an SM57. Each speaker cone will be differently shaped, and impact the tone greatly. Grabbing a larger image of the cone with the larger diaphragm limited this, giving a more general impression of the sound. Great video.
As I watchalong: - V30 vs Stock: That V30 upper mids sound just fantastic, I'd cut through with ease.. on the Katana video on cleans just wouldn't sound pleasing, but on this it sounded great clean or with higher gain, to me V30 wins vs stock, even more with gain, the stock just fell apart. - G12M (65W) vs Stock: That G12M turned up just blew the stock away, but on cleans.. it just felt small.. I'd go for the G12M if I'd play higher gains sounds more often. - G12H (75W) vs Stock: On cleans they were pretty close, but if I had to pick one I'd go with the G12H just because I don't put too much bass-end on the sounds I play, and on drive sounds again the G12H, the stock driven just falls short on the comparison. - G12 NEO vs Stock: Cleans on the NEO a bit too thin, when Lee added volume it got better, and again on drive the stock falls apart. At this point I sort of see a theme developing. Drive on the stock is just meh compared to anyother speaker so far. - G12-65(Heritage) vs Stock: On cleans the stock has the edge, not by a lot but enough to make a decision. Now on the driven sounds, that top-end on the G12-65 is great! feels kind of "alive" if that makes any sense. - G12M Greenback vs Stock: The Greenback very sparkly on the cleans, that break up was actually pleasing. On drive is even better! I'd take it any day over the Stock one. Curious to see what it'd sound like with 2 Greenbacks on a 2x12. - G12H Redback vs Stock: Close call on cleans, the Redback seemed a bit brighter but just a touch. And again on driven sounds the stock just sounds muffled. - G12 Ruby vs Stock: This was the closest one so far to the Stock, while typeing this I couldn't really tell them apart. On drive sounds actually not that different, but if I had to choose one I'd go for the Redback. - G12 Cream vs Stock: The top-end on the Creamback is a bit too pokey but sounds great somehow. It might get exahusting after some time but it'd cut through like nothing. - Katana vs Stock: Clean, the Katana was good but not by a landslide really, and driven.. I didn't like any of the two. After jumping around, I'd choose 3: V30, Greenback and Creamback. If a pedal could get the sounds of any of this speakers, I'd buy them instantly. And I love this videos on speakers, really underlooked part of guitar tone and I'm happy that you guys are putting attention to it. Love it!
@@bleromafia When I first heard the stock speaker on cleans I was quite pleased to be fair, but when switching back to it, it sounded to me very distant whilist the V30 really felt "up-front" which is more to my liking.. but yeah, I can totally see your point.
What I'm hearing is that the stock speaker has more mid and low range to help fill in the sound when you're practicing on your own in your bedroom while the aftermarket speakers are all designed to focus more in the mid and hi-end frequencies so it stands out in a mix with a full band.
@@JaimeNoro Don't know what he meant but for me listening, the G12H-75 Creamback sounded the best to my ears here and many other videos testing speakers with different amps.
I prefer the good old, easy to buy for 150$, EVM-12L OEM. I have 3 of them and they are incredibly punchy and ear-pleasant, though one of them sounds very differently, despite looking exactly the same.
I agree with Pete: G12H Creamback is a fantastic speaker. Round and warm for clean and tight bottom for overdrive sounds. The Greenback gives you that classic rock crunch. And then there is the V30 with its special upper mids. If you have these three for recording, you are good to do almost anything.
The stock speaker always sounds like it has this haze of "fuzz" coming through with the gain. The Creambacks seem to eliminate that completely and sounds so much more articulate.
I struggled so much with my Blues Junior IV with low end and the fuzz within the gain you mentioned. Low end could just be the cab is small and the fuzz sounds like the Type A speaker, since the BJ4 also has a Type A
Thank you guys so much for the hard work! This is the most informative video on Speakers and their sounds, I have found so far. It really helped making my decision. Please don't shy away from this sort of effort for your videos, it helps so many viewers to make informed decisions, when they hear the differences with their own ears in combination with your honest opinions. I'm a fan :)
Wow, thanks for doing this. What I got out of it: 1) a HRD can certainly sound pretty good!, 2) The type A had that classic American scoped mids with emphasis in the bass and high end that sound good in a room by yourself, but might not sound as good as you get louder and in a band situation, 3) I really liked the G12M-65 and bought one today (before seeing the video) for my HRD that I'm rebuilding, 4) The Alnico Cream certainly sounded a lot richer than all the others, but I'm not sure how that would translate to a warm single coil sound at gig volume, 5) All the speakers sound really good, you can't go wrong with any of the, 6) stock type A is pretty usable and probably not worth replacing. My HRD is older and doesn't have that speaker. Really informative video.
Bruce Zinky used to live around here and be in my circle of friends. He told me years ago that the last thing he did at Fender was design the speaker for the HRD together with Eminence. His marching orders from Fender management were to "make it sound as loud as possible in a music store". It was pretty evident what the initial marketing emphasis was for the amp, to impress neophytes. So you had this very mid forward speaker and a volume control taper that made it sound really powerful at barely any volume setting. He also told me that the weak point of the amp was the output transformer. Which showed up any time you tried to really crank one up. The combination of wimpy OT and mid forward speaker made for a really nasal sound. But if you didn't push it too far, it was like a Tube Screamer in that it cut though a mix well. Great for garage bands and small bar bands that were it's target market. Eventually as they became popular, Fender started making "special editions" with different speakers in them. Starting with the Jensens in the Blues Deluxe. Haven't played an HRD in awhile, but it sounds like they revoiced the speaker to try to compensate for the OT with more bottom end. Back in the day, the Mesa C90 which had a solid bottom was a good choice for beefing up an HRD.
Thank you Lee and Pete for the enormous effort and a big shout out to everyone behind the scenes for producing and editing these video's. It helps people decide if or what speaker they may consider to replace the original in there amp. Watched the shoot out on the Boss Katana 100 mk2 same again interesting as solid state vary in design of speakers compared to valve amps.
I spent about 3-4 weeks shooting out a WGS G12C/S (USA), WGS ET65 (Brit), Celestion Neo Creamback, Celestion V-Type, and Celestion V30 in a Fender Princeton 65 1x12 Solid State Combo amp, and yes you can definitely go mad, trying to decide which sounds best. Both American and British voiced speakers definitely both sound really good, not one is really better than the other in terms of a pleasurable tone, in my opinion, but I ever so slightly preferred the British flavor in that particular amp, definitely with gain, it just sounds much more aggressive and mean! Cleans were pretty even..I ended up choosing the WGS ET65. Very difficult decision, and dialing in the tone on the amp with the eq knobs definitely helps a ton too! And each speaker needed quite a bit of different shaping too. You can most assuredly get lost in chasing tone, but once you find something that just really hits the spot it's a great feeling!
The v30 sounds bright and with not so much low end, works perfectly for high gain tones, but not so much with a clean to overdriven tone. Stock speaker sounds great, wouldn’t replace it unless it breaks, loved the creambacks.
Really appreciate this comparison as well as the previous one. Have a V30 in a 1x12 cab that I'm very happy with and really didn't hear anything I thought sounded better. Different for sure but not better. Absolutely sticking with the V30.
Favorite all time speaker is a JBL 120 in a fender . NOT something very popular with the younger crowd but that is the sound of the 70s R&R that I love and play . None of the newer speakers are even close . That said I like a stiff cold speaker that cuts through in the humid weather . Dont play outdoors in the summer ? Its not about the volume its about serving the sound .Bedroom level sells gear . But gigging is a full contact sport. EVH and most old school rockers also used JBL or EV. That SQUIRT from a high wattage speaker is not replicated with creambacks or any others which are all great for different things.
IMHO - The HRD has always been criticized for the drive channel. I believe Fender's goal with Gen 3 and 4 were to make the drive channel sound better (smoother) with a Celestion speaker, at the expense of the articulate clean sound. If I were Fender, I would have given the the drive channel a post-distortion tone stack to do the smoothing instead of relying on a darker speaker. It is really difficult to have one speaker sound great both clean and dirty - it's always going to be a bit of a compromise. I think you need to decide whether clean or dirty is your main sound, and then use EQ to adjust the other. Also, the point about guitarists willing to spend gobs of money on pedals but not on their speaker is striking.
That’s actually one of the things I want to try when I eventually get around to buying a modeling rig: tie a couple cab blocks, maybe an EQ, and a drive/gain to the same expression pedal so that I can try to smoothly transition from clean to high(ish) gain without having either extreme sound wrong.
Great work guys! As I gig with these amps, I think the Neo Celestion is a great choice as an alternative to the A type. The Neo doesn't change the sound too much from the A Type, but has more clarity which seems noticeable in a live stage environment.
Seems to me the "A" type is a good compromise for the clean and drive channel of the amp. Whereas the non-stock speakers seem to highlight the different characteristics of the tone, mainly in the mid-range levels from higher to lower. Great vid guys, didn't skip any parts!
All you proven is that they all sound great. Yeah the more expensive speakers sound fantastic. Personally I love the Atype sound, it was a very budget friendly option for me in my Tweaker 15, and I was a great choice, for me.
You can use any speaker easily without frying the speaker, there is easy way to match the power handling of the speaker. You turn the amp louder and then you will reach a point (if the speaker is underrated) where the speaker won't get any louder but just little bit more compressed and distorted, that is when speaker has reached it's limit, and if you turn your amp a tad lower, you can play to the end of your life without frying the speaker. (and even if you run them too loud, they will handle that with ease, the coil has to heat up enough to get stuck with the magnet, and that will fry the speaker, because the coil cannot move freely, and that takes a long time)
I had the opportunity to have a friend of mine who has several cabs with various Celestion speakers…test my HRD into each one of them. As much as I hated to admit it, the Alnico Gold was noticeably better than any other one we tried. I really didn’t want to be tempted to pay over 300 dollars for a speaker, but here I am. The Gold is in my HRD right now.
I agree that the A type was darker in all cases, but in quite a few of the comparisons I liked the stock speaker until I heard the other one. For me, the Creamback G12H was the winner... unless you've got the dosh for the Alnico Creamback. That was gorgeous! I don't use the drive channel on my HRD. I use pedals for that. Thanks for doing this guys. It must have been exhausting.
tbh I was expecting a much bigger difference. Very surprising results, although when driven the greenback instantly gave me AC/DC vibes. Clean there is very little difference
To my ears, the cream backs are the way to go for this. I liked the m, the h was good, the alnico and heritage were tied for winners. IF YOU EVER DECIDE TO TRY THIS AGAIN, PLEASE demo a 2x12 cab with a v30 combined with each of the cream backs you used here. Since it’s such a popular combo nowadays with the h, you’ve got me really curious what the alnico and heritage speakers sound like when blended with that v30. Great video guys. Wish I could’ve made it to the shop when I was in London last year. Hopefully next time. 🤞🏻🤘🏻
I bought a Hot Rod Deluxe the first year they came out back in the late 90s. I loved the sound right away and checked to see what speaker was in there. It said made by Eminence for Fender Musical Instruments. I have been using American made Eminence speakers in all my amps ever since and that Hot Rod Deluxe is still my go to amp for small gigs as it is one of the best pedal platform amps ever made.
These have to be a huge pain to make, but unlike the Katana video where I generally preferred the stock speaker, this time I'm preferring the "upgrades" as often as not.. I play primarily clean, but really liked the V30, the AlNiCo cream back, the 65 cream back. The green back had something special going on too. You guys are awesome for spending a whole day doing this!
I gig with mine every weekend and some during the week. Mine is all stock. I used to use a blues driver with it. Now I just use the amp over drive. I have a EQ in the effects loop for a boost for solos. Big difference in tone and loudness from 4-5. The sweet spot is 5 on the overdrive channel. I use the more gain switch when I need more gain. I can get a sound close to my Marshalls. I cut the bass back, crank the mids, treble a little more then mid way, about 3 on the presence. I play with the bright switch on. I use lespaul's.
this is exactly what im looking for to help me decide which speaker to get for my hot rod. thanks guys. i didnt like other videos that do speaker reviews with the speakers in extension cabs. thanks again.
Guys, this video--like ALL your videos--is simply incredible. Y'all are do knowledgeable, personable, and relatable. I'm trying g to decide between two limited edition Hot Rods... One with an A-type Celestion, the other with a Creamback. This video is exactly what I needed. You guys rock!!
I'm coming at this from the perspective of having one of these amps and using it exclusively in a band context, where the A-Type tends to get a lost if the amp isn't set up right. Overall, with limited exceptions, the A-Type loses in my book because it's missing something tonally. The mids are scooped out too much compared to most of the other speakers, and it's overall missing the clarity and definition that are required for the amp to work well in a band setting. The Ruby is an exception and I'm not a fan of the Neo either. That Alnico Cream is glorious. The cleans were sublime.
In general, the speakers that sound best on clean tones won't sound best on dirty tones, so if you play both clean and dirty, you need to compromise a bit.
The G12-65 sounded like the ideal speaker for the Hot Rod Deluxe. The alnico Creamback sounded great clean, but I'm not sure a HR Deluxe is worth that kind of money, and I think the G12-65 sounded best dirty, and it still had that Fender-ish low end.
I have the 212 Deville and 5 years ago I pulled the shit speakers out of it and installed a G12-65 along with a (China in made) Vintage 30, both 16 ohms wired in parallel, and man I couldn't be happier with the results!
I put an Eminence Wheelhouse 12" in my Blues Deluxe and it really gave the amp a lot more articulation with a firmer bass and kept the treble/mids without excessive boost in those frequencies and due to efficiency it's slightly louder. That said I have 2 different cabs with the Celestion Creamback G12-H 75 in them. One is G12H-75 8ohm in a Weber single 12 cab powered by an old repurposed Hammond Organ amp and it's glorious. Beefy lows with a tight mid and a smooth upper, it CAN get loud. The other is a 16 ohm G12H-75 in a Marshall 1932B 1x12 cab and is powered by a Blackheart HD15 head. Originally the speaker was a G12T-65 and was a bit bright for me, the Creamback really brings the amp to life. It now has that creamy drive I remember from playing an original Marshall 50 watt plexi.
Thanks for the awesome video guys! Actually IRs is a great way to audit speakers before buying them... I've made a couple of IR speaker shootouts in my channel. The A-Type sounds great for the Fender clean stuff. The dirty channel of the HRD IV got better, but is still not quite there. With the Dane, I really like how the notes bloom with the G12-65 and the Creambacks! The G12-65 was made for Marshall 412s and late 70s hair metal, but it got very popular in Dumbles and 212 open backs and a lot of modern blues players use them! The Greenback is not only associated with AC/DC, but basically every Marshall tone in the 60s-80s and sounded great clean and nailed the crunchy tones. Alnicos are just gorgeous chimey bell tones, but the ruby is waaaaay darker than the blue, gold or cream and needs a VERY bright amp
As luck would have it, I just bought a Fender Supersonic Twin that has an A Type and the stock G12 Vintage 30. I get the best of both worlds. The amp sounds really good.
I didnt have time to read through all the comments but i think its worth mentioning that a well broke in speaker will be a bit looser then a new right out of the box speaker.
In this video and in the Katana video, I gotta say I really liked the sound of the Neo Creamback. I feel like that one produced sounds that I really liked across the different types of sounds that Pete was playing. I always thought I'd end up wanting to put Vintage 30s in a cabinet, but after these two videos, I'm really becoming a fan of the Neo Creamback's sound.
I heard no considerable difference until you strummed the first two chords on that 75 Creamback and then it got my attention. Great job on this one guys!
Fantastic video. Thanks guys! On the clean channel, nearly all of the other speakers sounded as good or better than the A type IMHO. There may have been one or two that I felt were slightly not as good. On the gain channel, I often preferred the A type... Kind of surprisingly. With the Dane, again I almost always preferred the other speakers. My faves were the Cream Back with the medium magnet, Cream Back with the heavy magnet, and the clear winner hands down no doubt about it... The alnico cream back. That speaker was absolutely magical.
The AlNiCo Cream (not “Creamback”) is Celestion’s best speaker ever, in my opinion. The Blue is the best sounding, but although the Cream is second-best sounding (again, my opinion), its power handling makes it so much more usable. The Ruby really only works in overly bright amps.
I recently compared the G12H-150 Redback and the Alnico Cream with a Friedman Small Box and BE-50. I know these are very different amps to the Hot Rod Deluxe and they're also high end by comparison, but I'm posting my comments as these two speakers seemed to find some favour in this video... I already owned an 8ohm Alnico Cream and I was comparing the 16ohm G12H-150 because one of the Friedman amps I was testing was a combo with the Redback factory installed. The Alnico Cream is quite scooped, so it did not have the same desirable midrange character that the Redback did. To my ears the Alnico Cream can come across a little muted. So in my playing/listening tests the G12H-150 won. I was particularly impressed that the Redback gives texture to the midrange without being shrill or harsh in any way. Clearly it has also found favour with Dave Friedman, so that is worth something given the rich and desirable tone of his amps. I actually sold the Alnico Cream because it wasn't the first time I thought it lacked mid range character for a driven tone. I must admit though the Alnico Cream comes across very well for both clean and driven tones in this video. I just think in my personal experience the G12H-150 has a more balanced EQ of these two and it's cheaper as a bonus :-) I must confess I have only compared these speakers at lower volumes though. Loud in the house during the day time, but not gigging volume which as the guys were saying, volume can totally change your perception and preference.
Awesome. I went into this video wanting to upgrade to the heavy magnet 70w Creamback and this video and the fact that Pete has had that setup further cements my decision. Very helpful video chaps! 👍
This was interesting for me because my Hot Rod IV came with a Creamback G12M speaker. It was one of the FSR amps, it has a oxblood grill and tweed sides. The Alnico Cream is a very tempting change imho
What I'd love to see is a video about heads and speaker cabinets. I have a few questions about them: 1. How different does a 4×12 actually sound to a 2×12, besides the likely-obvious matter of volume? 2. What's the difference in sound between a straight cabinet and an angled one? 3. Open versus closed back? 4. If you have two cabs with identical speakers/spec but a *way* different price range, what exactly are you paying for with the expensive one?
I prefer the stock speaker almost everytime. The neodymium being the closest and maybe a little clearer without sounding thin or shrill.The Redback sounded good. It just seems like the overall voicing of the stock speaker fits into all styles. I have to admit I do love the alnico creamback for its clean sound. Notes just pop right out.
Hey. I really appreciate this video and the subject. Despite the seemingly odd choice, I bought a HR Deville IV and promptly tamed and tweaked it a little with a Fromel Supreme mod kit and a Mercury Magnetics output transformer. After watching this video and doing a little more research online, I ordered a couple of Cream 90's. Grateful.
Thanks so much for this video. Obviously a lot of work for you guys. I was not at all surprised that I like all of the Creamback variations. They all sounded great. But I am finding that these speakers are pleasing to my ear in most situations I have heard them. I think I liked the Alnico the most, but hard to tell when you are listening to minor variations for an hour+ (Can only imagine 8+ hrs). Was impressed with the Heritage and the Reback as well. I feel like if I bought any of them it would be the neo creamback just for the weight reduction. It almost feels like a nice "extra" feature. It was obvious they wanted the Type A to give that classic Fender clean sound. But what I found interesting was that the Type A also seemed to take the pedal really well on the clean channel. Which of course is what I think most players intend to use the amp for. But most other speakers seemed to work better on the drive channel.
I just saved a ton on my Amp speakers lol. These videos have been valuable! To me, not enough differences to justify swapping. But, if someone stole the speaker out of my Blues Jr... I think I'd go cream back.
You should try switching the outputs of the A/B box since the isolated output has a different impedance. Might be acting somewhat like a buffer. Could explain why in both tests the one amp always had more presence.
Very interesting video especially as I own a Hot Rod Deluxe IV. The clean channel on that amp with that great sounding spring reverb turned up to 3-4 just sounds immense. I never use the drive channel as the clean channel just takes pedals so well. Now, I really like the stock Celestion A-Type speaker and I think it sounded a bit dark in this video, which I don't find to be the case when I'm playing it but again you can easily dial it in to your linking. So if I was to try and change the speaker it would have to be the Alnico Creamback... that was the only one where I thought it would make sense and be worth the upgrade. Anyway... great video, guys! And thanks so much for sitting a whole day shooting this and the Katana videos for us! You rock!!
Oh Chaps. I take my hat off to you for that work. From swapping them all in and out, to the excellent editing. Top notch work. Result for me..... Buy that Dane! Such a great pedal.
I love the alnico cream! It's the speaker that works with any amp and very versatile for different styles n gains. Works with my vox marshall and fender,
Thank you for the these speaker comparison videos. It's really not practical for people that don't own a music store to do them, and they're very revealing. Also, this is a good reminder of why the Hot Rod Deluxe is the world's best selling tube amp of all time. It's the perfect gigging amp, with a sound that really cuts through. I thought some of the replacement speakers were very in-your-face with their bitey tone, but in a good, rock 'n roll way :-)
Happy to see Anderton's doing this kind of videos as well, didn't really expect this stuff on this channel. Would've been a bit interested in how a common Fender type Jensen, some eminences and wgs speakers worked in this amp as well. Personally prefer the stock speaker here. If I get a fender amp, I'm looking for that kind of a bit dirty and moody sound. If I want aggressive mids, I go for marshall instead of different speaker. They say Celestion 65 was the best Celestion made. Probably talking about Marshall and rock. Apparently people really disliked 70 so Celestion slightly changed 65 to bring out 75. Although for some reason people seem to always bash 75 so who knows what's going on. But the 65 did sound nice, although close, with the original speaker here.
I have the George Benson Deluxe with a Jensen C12K Speaker, I like a clean amp using pedals for the dirt. I have to say that this works really well for me. Mainly playing a Strat. I played an older Deluxe not so long, it was boxy sounding, didn't sing at all.
You guys rock! I’ve been drinking… and you guys are strange as if I’m tripping… for those that know what I mean by tripping 1) nice comment about being in front vs. being in back of the amp. 2) I don’t own v30… liked it much better than the Celestion A . So glad I bought a Limited version of the HRD 4. 3) where is the creamback Celestion made? Only say cuz: china vs actual UK is different worlds. I only buy English Celestions : they are the most reliable to what you would expect from Celestion. 4) yes! The cream back has nice smooth midrange. 5) I own a neo Superman ToneTubby : love its sound. But, I agree the neo creamback just don’t sound as good (harsh) , to me as the A type; the A type is kinda harsh… so think about that for a minute! 6) the heritage sounds less ‘Open’ But heritage sounds better with driven single notes. 7) greenback… don’t put it in the HRD. It’s not rated! captain is right…match close to same watts: amp vs speaker. But I will add if you like over matching speaker watts vs amp… freaking do it ! 8) the clean red back sounds smooth; I prefer the red distorted…sounds more pro; the Dane makes the red sounds Stevie-ish with the note runs 9) the clean ruby is nice! The Dane gives the Alnico that classic sound; but Type A sounded more open and modern 10) the clean creamback alnico sounds awesome… yes! “delicious “ but, the type A sounded better with the Dane, to me. But would make that change to the cream alnico.. 11) katana- I don’t like them! But the clean was near the Type A ; but with gain…. No no ! 12) if want to change speakers- look at others than Celestion for sure; don’t pigeon hole yourself. 13 these guys rock… love their looseness and honest take on what they cover!
LOVE the video...Lee you should ask Tim or Neil from CLUTCH to be on the channel when the world goes back to normal. They tour the UK every year it seems. And are the best band in the Galaxy!
Thanks! Great video! Okay I have a blues deluxe reissue, but still, it gave me a sence of direction... something with creamback or greenback would be nice, I will listen again... But what would be the difference with a cannabis rex?
Having watched all of the Katana video and (admittedly) not all of this one yet, I'm starting to get the feeling amp makers are *quite good* at choosing speakers.
A few of the other celestions (cream back, V30) sound better for drive tones... but then they lose something on the clean channel. Namely bottom end. The A type simply strikes the best balance of being able to do both clean & drive pretty well. Although you could argue it doesn't do either one amazingly. It's just the best halfway house of the bunch. Which I'm sure is why Fender chose it! The only thing better than the A type is maybe the alnico Creamback but that would've put the price of the amp at over a grand.
To me the G12 65 is the best all around speaker - great on cleans, crunch and flat out dirt. Works great with Fender, Vox, Marshall, Hiwatt, Orange - you can throw any thing at it. Also sounds great at lower levels. I think it might prefer open back cabs, as otherwise the lowend might become a bit much.
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Bought some stereo speakers in the 90’s...the guy in the shop said “be careful you don’t stop listening to the music, and start listening to the speaker, it’s a dangerous path”...wise words...😁😁😁... funny how that stuck in my head....
Many, many, many years ago What Hi-Fi used to run a readers rig page. One annoying twat had a hi-fi, bought using a loan that mummy and daddy had to guarantee, and then said that sometimes he listened to music that he didn’t like, to hear the nuances of the kit, and that he also just sat and looked at it. Never has someone needed a punch in the face more !
@@brymills yea that sounds indeed exceptionally punchable.
i personally feel that unless the difference is something i probably can't replicate with EQ and tone knobs, i don't care. i get that with certain gear you want the stock sound as close to what you want to hear. but all this won't matter anyways, if you waste all your practice time with browsing gear. i'd focus mostly on detail in the frequencies since you can always dial back frequencies you don't want...i guess.
i'd honestly want more videos about that. trying to make different stuff the same. because then it becomes more about range and versatility i think.
Same goes for actually playing the guitar and not getting caught up in faffing about with NOS valves, pickups, capacitors etc. If you listen to the tone too much you get lost and never play. If you just play then you tend to naturally play to the tone's strengths and weaknesses.
@@layingblacklines best thing to do, buy a 1 pickup guitar. Sometimes more is too much, I see so many people where they are a slave to buying new pedals etc, slow down, dial an amp in have a few pedals but play more, practice more, hone your skills rather than try and buy new skills
@@jebusgod I have several axes with VERY different personalities and they make me play differently in a good way. I also play through a Marshall, an AC 30, a hot rod deluxe and an H&K. All have different speakers. It gives me an incredible experience, it’s just what you’ve into and what you want to carry or pay someone to carry. You can’t be down on folks for what they hear. Hell, we would have never had Jimmy, Stevie Ray, Gilmore etc without lots of different gear and axes.
Pete’s comments in the beginning ala the v30 are so spot on. The awesome sound you get in a bedroom situation is not what you want live. My rule of thumb is dial in my tone, then crank it up, turn the gain down and the mids up. What I end up with is a great live sound that sounds a little weak, and harsh at low volume. Best advice I’ve ever gotten is always play as close as possible to gigging with a drummer volume, and play standing up. If you’re trying to figure something out or create something sitting is ok but if you’re practicing to get better and play live, play loud, and stand up. Imho
Great advice man, so true.
Yes
Very true, I don’t like playing loud, it sounds better but is uncomfortable, but playing loud does matter for practicing noise management.
Or turn bass and treble down with the gain 😉
It’s the same for bass guitar 🤘
I know Cap hated it, but I'd love to see more speaker shootouts. Absolutely the best video you have ever done. Speakers, and cabinets make as much difference to your tone as the amp itself. Good decision choosing the SM7b for the mics btw. The larger diagram probably limited the clinical precision of a smaller dynamic mic like an SM57. Each speaker cone will be differently shaped, and impact the tone greatly. Grabbing a larger image of the cone with the larger diaphragm limited this, giving a more general impression of the sound. Great video.
Thanks for the massive effort this must have been to do!
Thanks for tuning in & watching!
As I watchalong:
- V30 vs Stock: That V30 upper mids sound just fantastic, I'd cut through with ease.. on the Katana video on cleans just wouldn't sound pleasing, but on this it sounded great clean or with higher gain, to me V30 wins vs stock, even more with gain, the stock just fell apart.
- G12M (65W) vs Stock: That G12M turned up just blew the stock away, but on cleans.. it just felt small.. I'd go for the G12M if I'd play higher gains sounds more often.
- G12H (75W) vs Stock: On cleans they were pretty close, but if I had to pick one I'd go with the G12H just because I don't put too much bass-end on the sounds I play, and on drive sounds again the G12H, the stock driven just falls short on the comparison.
- G12 NEO vs Stock: Cleans on the NEO a bit too thin, when Lee added volume it got better, and again on drive the stock falls apart. At this point I sort of see a theme developing. Drive on the stock is just meh compared to anyother speaker so far.
- G12-65(Heritage) vs Stock: On cleans the stock has the edge, not by a lot but enough to make a decision. Now on the driven sounds, that top-end on the G12-65 is great! feels kind of "alive" if that makes any sense.
- G12M Greenback vs Stock: The Greenback very sparkly on the cleans, that break up was actually pleasing. On drive is even better! I'd take it any day over the Stock one. Curious to see what it'd sound like with 2 Greenbacks on a 2x12.
- G12H Redback vs Stock: Close call on cleans, the Redback seemed a bit brighter but just a touch. And again on driven sounds the stock just sounds muffled.
- G12 Ruby vs Stock: This was the closest one so far to the Stock, while typeing this I couldn't really tell them apart. On drive sounds actually not that different, but if I had to choose one I'd go for the Redback.
- G12 Cream vs Stock: The top-end on the Creamback is a bit too pokey but sounds great somehow. It might get exahusting after some time but it'd cut through like nothing.
- Katana vs Stock: Clean, the Katana was good but not by a landslide really, and driven.. I didn't like any of the two.
After jumping around, I'd choose 3: V30, Greenback and Creamback. If a pedal could get the sounds of any of this speakers, I'd buy them instantly.
And I love this videos on speakers, really underlooked part of guitar tone and I'm happy that you guys are putting attention to it. Love it!
Same here: If you have these three for recording, you are good to do almost anything.
i preferred the stock over V30 on both the clean and built in drive.
with the pedal i preferred the V30
@@bleromafia When I first heard the stock speaker on cleans I was quite pleased to be fair, but when switching back to it, it sounded to me very distant whilist the V30 really felt "up-front" which is more to my liking.. but yeah, I can totally see your point.
What I'm hearing is that the stock speaker has more mid and low range to help fill in the sound when you're practicing on your own in your bedroom while the aftermarket speakers are all designed to focus more in the mid and hi-end frequencies so it stands out in a mix with a full band.
I have tested a lot of speakers in my hot rod. For me the best is the celestion cream back!
Yet another dude saying the creamback is this or that but doesn't specify which one since there are two very different ones...
@@JaimeNoro Don't know what he meant but for me listening, the G12H-75 Creamback sounded the best to my ears here and many other videos testing speakers with different amps.
I prefer the good old, easy to buy for 150$, EVM-12L OEM. I have 3 of them and they are incredibly punchy and ear-pleasant, though one of them sounds very differently, despite looking exactly the same.
Which ONE?
It seems that creamy is the best choice in many cases. I have one in my Marshall Astoria cabinet. Unfortunately I have nothing to compare to.
Lets face it.........the stock one is pretty damn good!
I agree
totally agree,,,,, do this review in a different room and youd get difference results!! very minor differences anyway youd never know in a mix.
I agree with Pete: G12H Creamback is a fantastic speaker. Round and warm for clean and tight bottom for overdrive sounds. The Greenback gives you that classic rock crunch. And then there is the V30 with its special upper mids. If you have these three for recording, you are good to do almost anything.
The stock speaker always sounds like it has this haze of "fuzz" coming through with the gain. The Creambacks seem to eliminate that completely and sounds so much more articulate.
Especially with the Dane. Sounded like the amp had a blanket thrown over it.
I struggled so much with my Blues Junior IV with low end and the fuzz within the gain you mentioned. Low end could just be the cab is small and the fuzz sounds like the Type A speaker, since the BJ4 also has a Type A
Thank you guys so much for the hard work! This is the most informative video on Speakers and their sounds, I have found so far. It really helped making my decision. Please don't shy away from this sort of effort for your videos, it helps so many viewers to make informed decisions, when they hear the differences with their own ears in combination with your honest opinions. I'm a fan :)
Wow, thanks for doing this. What I got out of it: 1) a HRD can certainly sound pretty good!, 2) The type A had that classic American scoped mids with emphasis in the bass and high end that sound good in a room by yourself, but might not sound as good as you get louder and in a band situation, 3) I really liked the G12M-65 and bought one today (before seeing the video) for my HRD that I'm rebuilding, 4) The Alnico Cream certainly sounded a lot richer than all the others, but I'm not sure how that would translate to a warm single coil sound at gig volume, 5) All the speakers sound really good, you can't go wrong with any of the, 6) stock type A is pretty usable and probably not worth replacing. My HRD is older and doesn't have that speaker. Really informative video.
Bruce Zinky used to live around here and be in my circle of friends. He told me years ago that the last thing he did at Fender was design the speaker for the HRD together with Eminence. His marching orders from Fender management were to "make it sound as loud as possible in a music store". It was pretty evident what the initial marketing emphasis was for the amp, to impress neophytes. So you had this very mid forward speaker and a volume control taper that made it sound really powerful at barely any volume setting. He also told me that the weak point of the amp was the output transformer. Which showed up any time you tried to really crank one up. The combination of wimpy OT and mid forward speaker made for a really nasal sound. But if you didn't push it too far, it was like a Tube Screamer in that it cut though a mix well. Great for garage bands and small bar bands that were it's target market. Eventually as they became popular, Fender started making "special editions" with different speakers in them. Starting with the Jensens in the Blues Deluxe. Haven't played an HRD in awhile, but it sounds like they revoiced the speaker to try to compensate for the OT with more bottom end. Back in the day, the Mesa C90 which had a solid bottom was a good choice for beefing up an HRD.
Great info! A good reson for upgrade my stock to Mercury. Thanks
Such useful info!
Huge thanks!
Thank you Lee and Pete for the enormous effort and a big shout out to everyone behind the scenes for producing and editing these video's. It helps people decide if or what speaker they may consider to replace the original in there amp. Watched the shoot out on the Boss Katana 100 mk2 same again interesting as solid state vary in design of speakers compared to valve amps.
Great video, the harmonics on the Creambacks are much richer, no doubt.
I replaced the speaker in my gen 1 HRD with an Eminence Texas Heat and it made a huge difference. Sounds amazing.
Yeah agreed. The Texas Heat is great in these amps. Had a Texas Heat and a Swamp Thang in my Deville also
El texas heat es practicamente un evm 12 l classic a super precio
I spent about 3-4 weeks shooting out a WGS G12C/S (USA), WGS ET65 (Brit), Celestion Neo Creamback, Celestion V-Type, and Celestion V30 in a Fender Princeton 65 1x12 Solid State Combo amp, and yes you can definitely go mad, trying to decide which sounds best. Both American and British voiced speakers definitely both sound really good, not one is really better than the other in terms of a pleasurable tone, in my opinion, but I ever so slightly preferred the British flavor in that particular amp, definitely with gain, it just sounds much more aggressive and mean! Cleans were pretty even..I ended up choosing the WGS ET65. Very difficult decision, and dialing in the tone on the amp with the eq knobs definitely helps a ton too! And each speaker needed quite a bit of different shaping too. You can most assuredly get lost in chasing tone, but once you find something that just really hits the spot it's a great feeling!
The v30 sounds bright and with not so much low end, works perfectly for high gain tones, but not so much with a clean to overdriven tone. Stock speaker sounds great, wouldn’t replace it unless it breaks, loved the creambacks.
Really appreciate this comparison as well as the previous one. Have a V30 in a 1x12 cab that I'm very happy with and really didn't hear anything I thought sounded better. Different for sure but not better. Absolutely sticking with the V30.
Favorite all time speaker is a JBL 120 in a fender . NOT something very popular with the younger crowd but that is the sound of the 70s R&R that I love and play . None of the newer speakers are even close . That said I like a stiff cold speaker that cuts through in the humid weather . Dont play outdoors in the summer ? Its not about the volume its about serving the sound .Bedroom level sells gear . But gigging is a full contact sport. EVH and most old school rockers also used JBL or EV. That SQUIRT from a high wattage speaker is not replicated with creambacks or any others which are all great for different things.
IMHO - The HRD has always been criticized for the drive channel. I believe Fender's goal with Gen 3 and 4 were to make the drive channel sound better (smoother) with a Celestion speaker, at the expense of the articulate clean sound. If I were Fender, I would have given the the drive channel a post-distortion tone stack to do the smoothing instead of relying on a darker speaker. It is really difficult to have one speaker sound great both clean and dirty - it's always going to be a bit of a compromise. I think you need to decide whether clean or dirty is your main sound, and then use EQ to adjust the other. Also, the point about guitarists willing to spend gobs of money on pedals but not on their speaker is striking.
That’s actually one of the things I want to try when I eventually get around to buying a modeling rig: tie a couple cab blocks, maybe an EQ, and a drive/gain to the same expression pedal so that I can try to smoothly transition from clean to high(ish) gain without having either extreme sound wrong.
Excellent and spot on comment!!!
Great work guys! As I gig with these amps, I think the Neo Celestion is a great choice as an alternative to the A type. The Neo doesn't change the sound too much from the A Type, but has more clarity which seems noticeable in a live stage environment.
Yes I love the neo creamback
Seems to me the "A" type is a good compromise for the clean and drive channel of the amp. Whereas the non-stock speakers seem to highlight the different characteristics of the tone, mainly in the mid-range levels from higher to lower. Great vid guys, didn't skip any parts!
Best bet is to get the extension cab and put a creamback into it.
That way you get your bassy mids in the stock combo and the high end in the ext cab.
I've had a Creamback G12H in my HRD2 for yeaaaaars now and love it. Such a great speaker and much better than the stock one.
Thanks for this effort! Filmed more than 7 hours for this one... respect. Great job
All you proven is that they all sound great. Yeah the more expensive speakers sound fantastic. Personally I love the Atype sound, it was a very budget friendly option for me in my Tweaker 15, and I was a great choice, for me.
You can use any speaker easily without frying the speaker, there is easy way to match the power handling of the speaker.
You turn the amp louder and then you will reach a point (if the speaker is underrated) where the speaker won't get any louder but just little bit more compressed and distorted, that is when speaker has reached it's limit, and if you turn your amp a tad lower, you can play to the end of your life without frying the speaker.
(and even if you run them too loud, they will handle that with ease, the coil has to heat up enough to get stuck with the magnet, and that will fry the speaker, because the coil cannot move freely, and that takes a long time)
I had the opportunity to have a friend of mine who has several cabs with various Celestion speakers…test my HRD into each one of them. As much as I hated to admit it, the Alnico Gold was noticeably better than any other one we tried. I really didn’t want to be tempted to pay over 300 dollars for a speaker, but here I am. The Gold is in my HRD right now.
The stock A speaker sounded a bit darker compared to all the other speakers.
Indeed. Could make you think that there might be some difference in the settings on the two amps, since it's the case on every single comparison.
The A-Type is a dark sounding speaker.
@@dep1001 Could have to do with the output impedance of the transformer in the switcher vs the direct output.
I agree that the A type was darker in all cases, but in quite a few of the comparisons I liked the stock speaker until I heard the other one. For me, the Creamback G12H was the winner... unless you've got the dosh for the Alnico Creamback. That was gorgeous! I don't use the drive channel on my HRD. I use pedals for that. Thanks for doing this guys. It must have been exhausting.
A type is a winner .. solid package
tbh I was expecting a much bigger difference. Very surprising results, although when driven the greenback instantly gave me AC/DC vibes. Clean there is very little difference
1. The Creamback Alnico
2. Redback
3. Heavy Mag Creamback
4. Medium Mag Creamback
5. G12 65 Heritage
I made it to the end!! Most upgrades were preferred to the stock. Well done guys for getting through that ear fatigue!
I really liked the way the V30 recorded. so glad I have a pair in a sealed cab for most of my amps.
Thank you for taking the time to do this gents!
The Alnico creamback sounded absolutely magical on clean setting!
*Awesome demo Danish and Captain. I like the G12 Rola 65 and the Alnico Creamback.*
To my ears, the cream backs are the way to go for this. I liked the m, the h was good, the alnico and heritage were tied for winners.
IF YOU EVER DECIDE TO TRY THIS AGAIN, PLEASE demo a 2x12 cab with a v30 combined with each of the cream backs you used here. Since it’s such a popular combo nowadays with the h, you’ve got me really curious what the alnico and heritage speakers sound like when blended with that v30.
Great video guys. Wish I could’ve made it to the shop when I was in London last year. Hopefully next time. 🤞🏻🤘🏻
I bought a Hot Rod Deluxe the first year they came out back in the late 90s. I loved the sound right away and checked to see what speaker was in there. It said made by Eminence for Fender Musical Instruments. I have been using American made Eminence speakers in all my amps ever since and that Hot Rod Deluxe is still my go to amp for small gigs as it is one of the best pedal platform amps ever made.
Really enjoyed those two speaker videos, realize the work to do them, many thanks...
Swamp Thing, Texas Heat or Cannabis Rex are the best replacement for this amp period. Swamp Thing is my favorite of the three.
the G12M creamback with the dane is UNBELIEVABLE
These have to be a huge pain to make, but unlike the Katana video where I generally preferred the stock speaker, this time I'm preferring the "upgrades" as often as not.. I play primarily clean, but really liked the V30, the AlNiCo cream back, the 65 cream back. The green back had something special going on too.
You guys are awesome for spending a whole day doing this!
Thanks for spending an entire day making a in depth video for us guys . Alnico Creamback FTW !
I gig with mine every weekend and some during the week. Mine is all stock. I used to use a blues driver with it. Now I just use the amp over drive. I have a EQ in the effects loop for a boost for solos. Big difference in tone and loudness from 4-5. The sweet spot is 5 on the overdrive channel. I use the more gain switch when I need more gain. I can get a sound close to my Marshalls. I cut the bass back, crank the mids, treble a little more then mid way, about 3 on the presence. I play with the bright switch on. I use lespaul's.
this is exactly what im looking for to help me decide which speaker to get for my hot rod. thanks guys. i didnt like other videos that do speaker reviews with the speakers in extension cabs. thanks again.
Loved this video, and the Katana one! Don't be afraid of the longer form videos, you guys are making them worth while. Cheers!
that was one seriously long video, informative and good to listen to while restringing. liked the alnico cream back the most.
Guys, this video--like ALL your videos--is simply incredible. Y'all are do knowledgeable, personable, and relatable. I'm trying g to decide between two limited edition Hot Rods... One with an A-type Celestion, the other with a Creamback. This video is exactly what I needed. You guys rock!!
I'm coming at this from the perspective of having one of these amps and using it exclusively in a band context, where the A-Type tends to get a lost if the amp isn't set up right. Overall, with limited exceptions, the A-Type loses in my book because it's missing something tonally. The mids are scooped out too much compared to most of the other speakers, and it's overall missing the clarity and definition that are required for the amp to work well in a band setting. The Ruby is an exception and I'm not a fan of the Neo either. That Alnico Cream is glorious. The cleans were sublime.
In general, the speakers that sound best on clean tones won't sound best on dirty tones, so if you play both clean and dirty, you need to compromise a bit.
The G12-65 sounded like the ideal speaker for the Hot Rod Deluxe. The alnico Creamback sounded great clean, but I'm not sure a HR Deluxe is worth that kind of money, and I think the G12-65 sounded best dirty, and it still had that Fender-ish low end.
I have the 212 Deville and 5 years ago I pulled the shit speakers out of it and installed a G12-65 along with a (China in made) Vintage 30, both 16 ohms wired in parallel, and man I couldn't be happier with the results!
I gotta give the W to the Celestion G12H.
I put an Eminence Wheelhouse 12" in my Blues Deluxe and it really gave the amp a lot more articulation with a firmer bass and kept the treble/mids without excessive boost in those frequencies and due to efficiency it's slightly louder. That said I have 2 different cabs with the Celestion Creamback G12-H 75 in them. One is G12H-75 8ohm in a Weber single 12 cab powered by an old repurposed Hammond Organ amp and it's glorious. Beefy lows with a tight mid and a smooth upper, it CAN get loud. The other is a 16 ohm G12H-75 in a Marshall 1932B 1x12 cab and is powered by a Blackheart HD15 head. Originally the speaker was a G12T-65 and was a bit bright for me, the Creamback really brings the amp to life. It now has that creamy drive I remember from playing an original Marshall 50 watt plexi.
Thanks for the awesome video guys! Actually IRs is a great way to audit speakers before buying them... I've made a couple of IR speaker shootouts in my channel. The A-Type sounds great for the Fender clean stuff. The dirty channel of the HRD IV got better, but is still not quite there. With the Dane, I really like how the notes bloom with the G12-65 and the Creambacks! The G12-65 was made for Marshall 412s and late 70s hair metal, but it got very popular in Dumbles and 212 open backs and a lot of modern blues players use them! The Greenback is not only associated with AC/DC, but basically every Marshall tone in the 60s-80s and sounded great clean and nailed the crunchy tones. Alnicos are just gorgeous chimey bell tones, but the ruby is waaaaay darker than the blue, gold or cream and needs a VERY bright amp
As luck would have it, I just bought a Fender Supersonic Twin that has an A Type and the stock G12 Vintage 30. I get the best of both worlds. The amp sounds really good.
Anyone interested in the PRS Silver sky clean sounds with Pete's beautiful playing :
5:33 12:10 18:44 26:33 32:26 39:34 48:13 55:26 1:00:15
I didnt have time to read through all the comments but i think its worth mentioning that a well broke in speaker will be a bit looser then a new right out of the box speaker.
I changed the stock for a G12 65H in my HRD. It's really nice and can cut through the mix bretter than the stock.
Excellent speaker
In this video and in the Katana video, I gotta say I really liked the sound of the Neo Creamback. I feel like that one produced sounds that I really liked across the different types of sounds that Pete was playing. I always thought I'd end up wanting to put Vintage 30s in a cabinet, but after these two videos, I'm really becoming a fan of the Neo Creamback's sound.
I was just thinking about the Katana speaker video this morning. Can't wait to watch! Thanks for putting in the hours to make these videos.
Alnico Cream the outstanding winner, also noticeable how Pete suddenly got inspired to play.
Overall that was fun and interesting to watch, and there were small differences but all usable sounds. Makes me want to get a Hot Rod Deluxe
I heard no considerable difference until you strummed the first two chords on that 75 Creamback and then it got my attention. Great job on this one guys!
Great guys. It’s so difficult to decide on a speaker replacement when you cannot try them. This give a real direction to look in
Fantastic video. Thanks guys!
On the clean channel, nearly all of the other speakers sounded as good or better than the A type IMHO. There may have been one or two that I felt were slightly not as good.
On the gain channel, I often preferred the A type... Kind of surprisingly.
With the Dane, again I almost always preferred the other speakers.
My faves were the Cream Back with the medium magnet, Cream Back with the heavy magnet, and the clear winner hands down no doubt about it... The alnico cream back. That speaker was absolutely magical.
Loved the last one of these, can't wait to see this one :D
Wait until the end & we even test out the Katana Speaker from last time!
@@andertons this is what I'm waiting to see...
@@andertons Now you’re starting to think like an Andertons TV addict!
The AlNiCo Cream (not “Creamback”) is Celestion’s best speaker ever, in my opinion. The Blue is the best sounding, but although the Cream is second-best sounding (again, my opinion), its power handling makes it so much more usable. The Ruby really only works in overly bright amps.
I recently compared the G12H-150 Redback and the Alnico Cream with a Friedman Small Box and BE-50. I know these are very different amps to the Hot Rod Deluxe and they're also high end by comparison, but I'm posting my comments as these two speakers seemed to find some favour in this video... I already owned an 8ohm Alnico Cream and I was comparing the 16ohm G12H-150 because one of the Friedman amps I was testing was a combo with the Redback factory installed.
The Alnico Cream is quite scooped, so it did not have the same desirable midrange character that the Redback did. To my ears the Alnico Cream can come across a little muted. So in my playing/listening tests the G12H-150 won. I was particularly impressed that the Redback gives texture to the midrange without being shrill or harsh in any way. Clearly it has also found favour with Dave Friedman, so that is worth something given the rich and desirable tone of his amps. I actually sold the Alnico Cream because it wasn't the first time I thought it lacked mid range character for a driven tone. I must admit though the Alnico Cream comes across very well for both clean and driven tones in this video. I just think in my personal experience the G12H-150 has a more balanced EQ of these two and it's cheaper as a bonus :-) I must confess I have only compared these speakers at lower volumes though. Loud in the house during the day time, but not gigging volume which as the guys were saying, volume can totally change your perception and preference.
As for the V30, I liked it best with the built in gain. But clean and with the Dane, I´d go for the stock.
Awesome. I went into this video wanting to upgrade to the heavy magnet 70w Creamback and this video and the fact that Pete has had that setup further cements my decision. Very helpful video chaps! 👍
This was interesting for me because my Hot Rod IV came with a Creamback G12M speaker. It was one of the FSR amps, it has a oxblood grill and tweed sides.
The Alnico Cream is a very tempting change imho
Celestion Heritage series as a whole is just flat out good.
I think all of them had better definition except the Ruby. The Heritage and Cream Back Alnico I like the best over all.
Hey guys thanks for this. Based on this video I got the Celestion Alnico Creamback and love it!
What I'd love to see is a video about heads and speaker cabinets. I have a few questions about them:
1. How different does a 4×12 actually sound to a 2×12, besides the likely-obvious matter of volume?
2. What's the difference in sound between a straight cabinet and an angled one?
3. Open versus closed back?
4. If you have two cabs with identical speakers/spec but a *way* different price range, what exactly are you paying for with the expensive one?
I prefer the stock speaker almost everytime. The neodymium being the closest and maybe a little clearer without sounding thin or shrill.The Redback sounded good. It just seems like the overall voicing of the stock speaker fits into all styles. I have to admit I do love the alnico creamback for its clean sound. Notes just pop right out.
Hey. I really appreciate this video and the subject. Despite the seemingly odd choice, I bought a HR Deville IV and promptly tamed and tweaked it a little with a Fromel Supreme mod kit and a Mercury Magnetics output transformer. After watching this video and doing a little more research online, I ordered a couple of Cream 90's. Grateful.
Thanks so much for this video. Obviously a lot of work for you guys. I was not at all surprised that I like all of the Creamback variations. They all sounded great. But I am finding that these speakers are pleasing to my ear in most situations I have heard them. I think I liked the Alnico the most, but hard to tell when you are listening to minor variations for an hour+ (Can only imagine 8+ hrs). Was impressed with the Heritage and the Reback as well. I feel like if I bought any of them it would be the neo creamback just for the weight reduction. It almost feels like a nice "extra" feature.
It was obvious they wanted the Type A to give that classic Fender clean sound. But what I found interesting was that the Type A also seemed to take the pedal really well on the clean channel. Which of course is what I think most players intend to use the amp for. But most other speakers seemed to work better on the drive channel.
Great call on the HRD. I've been debating doing this for sometime
The warehouse version of the vintage 30 is incredible for a lower price. I have one in a JCM800 combo and it sounds excellent.
They all sound good to me. I think it all come down to taste. There’s no bad choice in there!!
I just saved a ton on my Amp speakers lol. These videos have been valuable! To me, not enough differences to justify swapping. But, if someone stole the speaker out of my Blues Jr... I think I'd go cream back.
Creamback all the way for this particular unit ! I’ve always been a V30 guy though !
You should try switching the outputs of the A/B box since the isolated output has a different impedance. Might be acting somewhat like a buffer. Could explain why in both tests the one amp always had more presence.
Very interesting video especially as I own a Hot Rod Deluxe IV. The clean channel on that amp with that great sounding spring reverb turned up to 3-4 just sounds immense. I never use the drive channel as the clean channel just takes pedals so well. Now, I really like the stock Celestion A-Type speaker and I think it sounded a bit dark in this video, which I don't find to be the case when I'm playing it but again you can easily dial it in to your linking. So if I was to try and change the speaker it would have to be the Alnico Creamback... that was the only one where I thought it would make sense and be worth the upgrade. Anyway... great video, guys! And thanks so much for sitting a whole day shooting this and the Katana videos for us! You rock!!
Oh Chaps. I take my hat off to you for that work. From swapping them all in and out, to the excellent editing. Top notch work.
Result for me..... Buy that Dane! Such a great pedal.
Creamback Alnico sounded superb on clean channel, not as much on drives, 150 Redback sounded amazing too with ceramic creamback
I love the alnico cream! It's the speaker that works with any amp and very versatile for different styles n gains. Works with my vox marshall and fender,
You heroes!!!!!!! Liked the video and....A type is a very good choice for this amp overall. Not expensive and good for the job
Thank you for the these speaker comparison videos. It's really not practical for people that don't own a music store to do them, and they're very revealing. Also, this is a good reminder of why the Hot Rod Deluxe is the world's best selling tube amp of all time. It's the perfect gigging amp, with a sound that really cuts through. I thought some of the replacement speakers were very in-your-face with their bitey tone, but in a good, rock 'n roll way :-)
Happy to see Anderton's doing this kind of videos as well, didn't really expect this stuff on this channel. Would've been a bit interested in how a common Fender type Jensen, some eminences and wgs speakers worked in this amp as well.
Personally prefer the stock speaker here. If I get a fender amp, I'm looking for that kind of a bit dirty and moody sound. If I want aggressive mids, I go for marshall instead of different speaker.
They say Celestion 65 was the best Celestion made. Probably talking about Marshall and rock. Apparently people really disliked 70 so Celestion slightly changed 65 to bring out 75. Although for some reason people seem to always bash 75 so who knows what's going on. But the 65 did sound nice, although close, with the original speaker here.
I have the George Benson Deluxe with a Jensen C12K Speaker, I like a clean amp using pedals for the dirt. I have to say that this works really well for me. Mainly playing a Strat. I played an older Deluxe not so long, it was boxy sounding, didn't sing at all.
Please do more of these speaker swap videos! 😊
You guys rock! I’ve been drinking… and you guys are strange as if I’m tripping… for those that know what I mean by tripping 1) nice comment about being in front vs. being in back of the amp. 2) I don’t own v30… liked it much better than the Celestion A . So glad I bought a Limited version of the HRD 4. 3) where is the creamback Celestion made? Only say cuz: china vs actual UK is different worlds. I only buy English Celestions : they are the most reliable to what you would expect from Celestion. 4) yes! The cream back has nice smooth midrange. 5) I own a neo Superman ToneTubby : love its sound. But, I agree the neo creamback just don’t sound as good (harsh) , to me as the A type; the A type is kinda harsh… so think about that for a minute! 6) the heritage sounds less ‘Open’ But heritage sounds better with driven single notes. 7) greenback… don’t put it in the HRD. It’s not rated! captain is right…match close to same watts: amp vs speaker. But I will add if you like over matching speaker watts vs amp… freaking do it ! 8) the clean red back sounds smooth; I prefer the red distorted…sounds more pro; the Dane makes the red sounds Stevie-ish with the note runs 9) the clean ruby is nice! The Dane gives the Alnico that classic sound; but Type A sounded more open and modern 10) the clean creamback alnico sounds awesome… yes! “delicious “ but, the type A sounded better with the Dane, to me. But would make that change to the cream alnico.. 11) katana- I don’t like them! But the clean was near the Type A ; but with gain…. No no ! 12) if want to change speakers- look at others than Celestion for sure; don’t pigeon hole yourself. 13 these guys rock… love their looseness and honest take on what they cover!
LOVE the video...Lee you should ask Tim or Neil from CLUTCH to be on the channel when the world goes back to normal. They tour the UK every year it seems. And are the best band in the Galaxy!
Thanks! Great video! Okay I have a blues deluxe reissue, but still, it gave me a sence of direction... something with creamback or greenback would be nice, I will listen again... But what would be the difference with a cannabis rex?
Having watched all of the Katana video and (admittedly) not all of this one yet, I'm starting to get the feeling amp makers are *quite good* at choosing speakers.
Neo CreamBack sounded the most different of the three in my headphones... how strange! and best in my opinion.
A few of the other celestions (cream back, V30) sound better for drive tones... but then they lose something on the clean channel. Namely bottom end. The A type simply strikes the best balance of being able to do both clean & drive pretty well. Although you could argue it doesn't do either one amazingly. It's just the best halfway house of the bunch. Which I'm sure is why Fender chose it! The only thing better than the A type is maybe the alnico Creamback but that would've put the price of the amp at over a grand.
To me the G12 65 is the best all around speaker - great on cleans, crunch and flat out dirt. Works great with Fender, Vox, Marshall, Hiwatt, Orange - you can throw any thing at it. Also sounds great at lower levels. I think it might prefer open back cabs, as otherwise the lowend might become a bit much.