This doesn’t account for total sulfur, only free. I test our bulk wine before shipping, and add sulfur for transport. Recent example: FSO2 was 18PPM, TSO2 (total) was at 120PPM. Had to add more before it left warehouse. Wines that’ve been in storage tanks get monthly FSO2 checks to maintain appx 30PPM for stability, and as time goes on, the TSO2 climbs. It can push 200 before it may need additional treatment or blending. So, the test should be for total sulfur, if the goal is to eliminate it. (Still, lunch meat, dried fruit, and other preserved foods will have way more sulfite than any bottled wine would ever have…)
I keep a vinegar jar where I add leftover wine to. Sometimes the so2 is too high and it inhibits the acetobacter. So I use a drop or two of peroxide before adding it to the mother.
When people complain that they are sensitive or have allergies related to sulfites, I usually start by asking what other foods and drinks they must avoid to prevent their symptoms. If they don't have to strictly control their diets to avoid sulfites all the time, then this most likely isn't the problem. Most people don't realize that these compounds appear, either naturally or by addition, in a very large percentage of the foods and drinks they consume, and are not unique to wine. It's much more likely that a reaction to wine is a histamine response to one of the many phenolics that occur naturally in wine that give us the scents and flavors that we love so much. This kind of histamine response can be quickly countered with your favorite OTC antihistamine. I also remind people that a headache is a classic response to exposure to alcohol. Of course, in perceptible concentrations, FSO2 smells and tastes bad; so if you have the experience (as I have had in the past) of making a small addition but not mixing thoroughly enough, causing some bottles to be much higher concentration than others, which is very disappointing, this is a great tip to try and salvage the bottle and still be able to enjoy it!
I think the real root cause of all the sulfite hysteria is the US regulatory requirement to label that a wine "contains sulfites". People see this and think this must be a bad thing. They also get a headache from drinking an acetaldehyde filled bottle that has sat half full on the counter for a week and the obvious villain becomes the sulfites again. I generally don't see a need to remove them but for those who feel like it is the cause of their woes, I do think they should try removing them to see if it really is the sulfites causing their problems (which it probably isn't). I agree with you on the root cause of the headaches being either histamine, acetaldehyde or just the fact that a red wine is a lot stronger than a glass of Michelob Ultra. I use MLF strains that are low histamine producers and am pretty vigilant about having low acetaldehyde and a lot of people comment that my wines don't give them a headache. They attribute it to no sulfites, thinking home winemakers must not add them and also not realizing they are a natural byproduct of fermentation. I can correct people but I also find that most people who latch on to these ideas aren't particularly receptive to scientific explanations.
@franks4973 Well, Champagne is made from chardonnay, and Prosecco is made primarily from Glera, so I would bet there's a phenolic compound in chardonnay that's not in glera that triggers a histamine response for you.
I agree with what you're saying, however when ever I drink a wine which is preservative free, I can really feel the difference in the morning. Especially if I consumed about half a bottle over the course of an evening.
I have recently learned that wine is a real "no no"for those of us with ANY blood disorder - that Savignon Blanc is probably the least sulfate laden wine to drink. So I go for the organic wine Camelon and will further drop a 3% peroxide drop in a glass- as even with an organic white, there IS residual sulfites.
The sulfur is still in the wine just in a bound form, right? So someone who is truly allergic would still have a reaction after treating the wine, right?
I love your videos I'm pursuing a career in wine making. Been a winemakers assistant for years and want to pursue more education do you have any recommendations on colleges for enology?
This video was extremely helpful! Unfortunately, I have 18 gallons of old vines Zinfandel that I mistakenly added too much potassium meta-sulfite and the S02 is sitting at 200. What’s the conversion calculations to reduce to the appropriate level?
I have roughly 8 gallons of Barolo i made and did the same thing. Thinking of just dumping it at this point. Would love to do this but I’m not sure how safe it is.
That is interesting. French wines and champagne give me splitting headaches so I just avoid them. In medieval times they watered wine not to make wine palatable but to make water safe. Not sure wine was considered rubbish.
The headaches are more likely caused by acetaldehyde or histamine than SO2 which would normally cause respiratory distress, especially if you had asthma. It would depend on where and at what time of year you were at in the middle ages. If you were near harvest wines were cherished, especially if you could afford better wines. If you were in england or anywhere the wine had to travel, or if it was 6 months or more past harvest you were likely drinking extremely oxidized wines to the point that they were borderline un-drinkable. If we go back further, they would flavor the wines with pine resin and spices to try to counteract the off putting smells and tastes. When beer ramped up, it really ran over wine, until the advent of SO2, when wine had a seat at the table.again.
Thanks for the suggestion. You are creating a small amount of sulfuric acid, like I mentioned in the video. The equation would be as follows... H2O2(peroxide)+SO2=H2SO4(sulfuric acid).
Why are you mixing mg (mass) and ml (volume) ... ppm is a volume ratio so shouldn't we just be talking in ml and litres? ml and mg are only interchangeable with water. Or have I missed something?
w/v measurements are commonly used in winemaking vs w/w measurements. In many cases the difference is negligible between the two, but you will often see percentages and ppm measurements with the w/v clarifier. We use g/L, mg/L, etc because it makes things easier. We usually know the volume, and can calculate the weight with the specific gravity, but why? Most of our additions are going to be in powdered form, so we will weigh those with a scale, rather than use something like tsp or mL to measure them. Unless you are using a balance, you aren't really measuring mass, so even when I am using the term gram I am usually going to be measuring weight.... but it is the same if we assume standard gravity of 9.8m/s^2 so I am not getting to bent out of shape about it.
This doesn’t account for total sulfur, only free. I test our bulk wine before shipping, and add sulfur for transport. Recent example: FSO2 was 18PPM, TSO2 (total) was at 120PPM. Had to add more before it left warehouse.
Wines that’ve been in storage tanks get monthly FSO2 checks to maintain appx 30PPM for stability, and as time goes on, the TSO2 climbs. It can push 200 before it may need additional treatment or blending. So, the test should be for total sulfur, if the goal is to eliminate it. (Still, lunch meat, dried fruit, and other preserved foods will have way more sulfite than any bottled wine would ever have…)
Thanks for the upload. I'm always looking for new info on wine making.
Thanks!
Interesting! That’s considerably cheaper than purchasing those wine sticks or wands that allegedly prevent wine headaches. Thanks for the info!
Was thinking the same thing!
I keep a vinegar jar where I add leftover wine to. Sometimes the so2 is too high and it inhibits the acetobacter. So I use a drop or two of peroxide before adding it to the mother.
When people complain that they are sensitive or have allergies related to sulfites, I usually start by asking what other foods and drinks they must avoid to prevent their symptoms. If they don't have to strictly control their diets to avoid sulfites all the time, then this most likely isn't the problem. Most people don't realize that these compounds appear, either naturally or by addition, in a very large percentage of the foods and drinks they consume, and are not unique to wine. It's much more likely that a reaction to wine is a histamine response to one of the many phenolics that occur naturally in wine that give us the scents and flavors that we love so much. This kind of histamine response can be quickly countered with your favorite OTC antihistamine. I also remind people that a headache is a classic response to exposure to alcohol.
Of course, in perceptible concentrations, FSO2 smells and tastes bad; so if you have the experience (as I have had in the past) of making a small addition but not mixing thoroughly enough, causing some bottles to be much higher concentration than others, which is very disappointing, this is a great tip to try and salvage the bottle and still be able to enjoy it!
I think the real root cause of all the sulfite hysteria is the US regulatory requirement to label that a wine "contains sulfites". People see this and think this must be a bad thing. They also get a headache from drinking an acetaldehyde filled bottle that has sat half full on the counter for a week and the obvious villain becomes the sulfites again. I generally don't see a need to remove them but for those who feel like it is the cause of their woes, I do think they should try removing them to see if it really is the sulfites causing their problems (which it probably isn't).
I agree with you on the root cause of the headaches being either histamine, acetaldehyde or just the fact that a red wine is a lot stronger than a glass of Michelob Ultra. I use MLF strains that are low histamine producers and am pretty vigilant about having low acetaldehyde and a lot of people comment that my wines don't give them a headache. They attribute it to no sulfites, thinking home winemakers must not add them and also not realizing they are a natural byproduct of fermentation. I can correct people but I also find that most people who latch on to these ideas aren't particularly receptive to scientific explanations.
Interesting, I wonder why I get an instant splitting headache from real champagne but not Prosecco
@franks4973 Well, Champagne is made from chardonnay, and Prosecco is made primarily from Glera, so I would bet there's a phenolic compound in chardonnay that's not in glera that triggers a histamine response for you.
I agree with what you're saying, however when ever I drink a wine which is preservative free, I can really feel the difference in the morning. Especially if I consumed about half a bottle over the course of an evening.
Great info. Thank you
I have recently learned that wine is a real "no no"for those of us with ANY blood disorder - that Savignon Blanc is probably the least sulfate laden wine to drink. So I go for the organic wine Camelon and will further drop a 3% peroxide drop in a glass- as even with an organic white, there IS residual sulfites.
Thank you for the Information. I have a sister-in-law that says she is sensitive to sulfite.
Very helpful. Thanks.
Thank you!
The sulfur is still in the wine just in a bound form, right? So someone who is truly allergic would still have a reaction after treating the wine, right?
I'm removing the sulfites from store-bought wine to make red wine vinegar thank you very much
Very interesting 🤔
Love it. Nice path to make wine vinegar letting the vinegar bacteria survive.
Does aerating help with lowering the sulfites?
Can you use peroxide in a red as well? Or is this a trick just for white wines?
Yes, you can also use peroxide in a red wine..
I love your videos I'm pursuing a career in wine making. Been a winemakers assistant for years and want to pursue more education do you have any recommendations on colleges for enology?
This video was extremely helpful!
Unfortunately, I have 18 gallons of old vines Zinfandel that I mistakenly added too much potassium meta-sulfite and the S02 is sitting at 200.
What’s the conversion calculations to reduce to the appropriate level?
Sorry, potassium metabisulfite
I have roughly 8 gallons of Barolo i made and did the same thing. Thinking of just dumping it at this point. Would love to do this but I’m not sure how safe it is.
I am quite surprised by your video because my doctor told me that it was EXTREMELY DANGEROUS to absorb hydrogen peroxide, even in very small doses!
Great reporting, thanks.
That is interesting. French wines and champagne give me splitting headaches so I just avoid them. In medieval times they watered wine not to make wine palatable but to make water safe. Not sure wine was considered rubbish.
The headaches are more likely caused by acetaldehyde or histamine than SO2 which would normally cause respiratory distress, especially if you had asthma.
It would depend on where and at what time of year you were at in the middle ages. If you were near harvest wines were cherished, especially if you could afford better wines. If you were in england or anywhere the wine had to travel, or if it was 6 months or more past harvest you were likely drinking extremely oxidized wines to the point that they were borderline un-drinkable. If we go back further, they would flavor the wines with pine resin and spices to try to counteract the off putting smells and tastes. When beer ramped up, it really ran over wine, until the advent of SO2, when wine had a seat at the table.again.
❤
That was a great video
Thank you!
You should really write out the basic reaction taking place. Or I could not be lazy and look it up myself.
Thanks for the suggestion. You are creating a small amount of sulfuric acid, like I mentioned in the video. The equation would be as follows... H2O2(peroxide)+SO2=H2SO4(sulfuric acid).
Why are you mixing mg (mass) and ml (volume) ... ppm is a volume ratio so shouldn't we just be talking in ml and litres? ml and mg are only interchangeable with water. Or have I missed something?
w/v measurements are commonly used in winemaking vs w/w measurements. In many cases the difference is negligible between the two, but you will often see percentages and ppm measurements with the w/v clarifier. We use g/L, mg/L, etc because it makes things easier. We usually know the volume, and can calculate the weight with the specific gravity, but why? Most of our additions are going to be in powdered form, so we will weigh those with a scale, rather than use something like tsp or mL to measure them. Unless you are using a balance, you aren't really measuring mass, so even when I am using the term gram I am usually going to be measuring weight.... but it is the same if we assume standard gravity of 9.8m/s^2 so I am not getting to bent out of shape about it.
🥂
So this is a homemade wine show but today you're talking wine W/ sulfates added
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