Another way to stabilise for tartaric acid is to perform a warm stabilization. Let the wine go through an osmotic membrane at high pressure and it will split into two streams, a stream rich of salts (high ppm)and a stream poor of salts (few ppm). In the machine i engineered for Martini in Turin Italy it took only one hour for the high ppm stream to show crystallization of tartrate salts and let them fall out of the solution. The rich ppm stream is actually oversaturated and cannot hold that amount of tartrate salts in the solution. After the elimination of the tartrate salts you need to rejoin both streams. This is an easy and low cost way to eliminate tartrate. It is also selective acting only on those salts. Thanks for your videos which are very informative. Greetings from Italy.
Thanks, you are one of the more informative wine makers on RUclips and have greatly improved me even though I have never done grapes. I have only done fruit wines from what I can find in the mountains. If you ever want some interesting berries, let me know, and I will send them your way
I’m currently fermenting my first ever batch of wine. Some of the information I get from your videos is a bit over my head at this point, but the delivery is worth it. What I can’t find anywhere is the timeline for when to add ingredients /chemicals. Starting with must until pre bottling
Good infos mate. In our winery for cold stability we do Manno stab trials putting all samples into brine liquid in fridge (4 degree) and check if there are crystals or not. And add Manno stab depending on the results.
Can you backsweeten and use malalactic fermentation to produce a carbonated product? If so how much backsweetening and metabisulfites would you want to use?
I'm waiting when you will analyse temperature ferementation .I have notice it has profound effect on wine .Sometimes when I want to retain aroma I ferment in low temperatures but unfortunately the aroma has fadded away .
I usually give a very high dose of SO2 after fermentation on a white wine and get it into a topped up carboy. Rather than gradually adding SO2, just one big dose. I measure at the time of bottling and adjust if necessary. This prevents MLF which will rob a white of that fruity goodness and it also prevents any subtle oxidation which will also mute fruity aromas. A white wine really should be drank between about 6 months to two years though if you want to catch some of those more fruity aromatics. Beyond that, it will still be good but more subdued.
Another great video, thank you for the information in detail. One question, when wine in carboy or barrel aging for at least half year or longer, how often do you test SO2 and what’s the SO2 reading you prefer to keep? Thank you.
Your videos are amazing! So useful. Thanks a bunch for doing that! I'm about to back-sweeten plum and fig wines which both ended all the way down at 0.990 . Just one question if I may: should I wait for some time after adding potassium metabisulfate and sorbate before I start back-sweetening, as I'm going to to it by taste so I'll be tasting it? Basically is it safe to add them during the final racking right before back-sweetening and bottling? Thanks!
Thanks. Recently, I saw a video where they used toasted french oak for a mead. It sounded like it took the mead to a new and interesting level. Have you experimented with any woods?
For white wine. Did you say you will add 2x potassium metabisulfate after fermentation Is the after primary fermentation or after second racking. Please be verbose on this. Thank you.
Usually you could add ML bacteria to your red wine when the fermentation is over. You add the ML bacteria to your fermented wine after the grape marc is pressed. It is very important that you don’t add sulfur dioxide to your fresh wine since Ml bacteria only works when the free sulfur levels are under 30ppm=30mg/l When ML fermentation is over about in a week or 2 (you know its ended when theres no more CO2 produced) you rack your wine from lees and add sulfur dioxide and set the free sulfur level to your desired level depending on your wine type. In white wines you add ML bacteria to your wine after the fermentation is over and is racked from the lees. ML fermentation (sometimes) could happen naturally at any time if Ml bacteria is present in your wine and the free sulfur dioxide level is under 30ppm (although you shouldn’t keep your sulfur dioxide level low just because you are waiting for ML fermentation to happen naturally. Sulfur protects your wine from oxidation and is very important that you adjust the sulfur level on a regular basis. You can do ML fermentation but it is not necessarily important to put your wine through this process and risk oxidation If the ph level in your wine is low like 3-3,3 it means that your wine is very acidic and ML could higher your ph since malic acid transforms to lactic acid which is a weaker acid but the ph level shouldn’t exceed 3,5-3,6 since higher ph level compromises wine stabilty. You can add all kinds of things to your wine but it doesn’t mean you should. Many wineries are going back to the old fashioned ways because they realise that the best wines are made with natural methods and not by poking your wine with all kinds of stuff and machines. Hope this helps love and kisses from Hungary
Thank you for the videos. I see you have a Diamond. I am expecting my first batch of Diamonds this fall and have yet to find a recipe. Do you have one that you prefer?
I have a video on making white wine from grapes that will get you in the ballpark. Ferment cool. I really like Renaissance Fresco yeast for white wines. Make sure it doesn't go through MLF. With anything Labrusca, including diamond, you may find that you want to add about 10-15% water to tone down the cloying, Welch's like intensity. You can dial that in later once you get a read on it. You will definitely want to bottle with a little residual sugar also. Somewhere in the 3-7% range or 1.010 to 1.020 on a hydrometer. pH should be somewhere in the 3.1-3.3 range after fermentation or 3.0-3.25 at harvest.
They are both salts that contain sulfur dioxide but one will leave residual potassium while the other will leave sodium. Potassium is natural to grape based wines and any excess will fall out of solution as potassium bitartrate (cream of tartar), so it is generally the preferred option.
Fermaid O mostly yeast hulls and is a very slow and steady way to feed the yeast. It is also organic. Fermaid K contains yeast hulls but also DAP, making it somewhat quick releasing if you are treating H2S but also capable of feeding for the long haul. Pure DAP is like candy. It is very effective if you need it but it doesn't provide lasting nutrition.
Yes, I usually invert it which basically like making a simple syrup with a pinch of acid and letting it simmer for about 30 minutes. The acids in the wine will invert the sucrose (table sugar) into fructose and glucose which will taste a bit sweeter. If you add it in sucrose form it will seem a little sweeter than you intended after about a month.
Is there a malolactic culture that produces minimal amounts of the "creamy/buttery" taste? I've had wines before that were so creamy tasting that I had a hard time drinking them. I really have been avoiding putting my wine through malolactic fermentation because I don't want to end up with an overly buttery flavor.
If it is a white wine or vitus labrusca (Niagara, concord, Catawba, etc) I would not put it through MLF, with very few exceptions (Chardonnay). I generally prefer a crisp white and MLF will send it in the wrong direction. Labrusca grapes have a lot of malic acid and are best if you think of them as somewhere between an apple and a vinifera wine grape. You can make good wine but they shine when you are looking for a juicy wine. Malic acid drops as a grape ripens,.so under ripe grapes can be more challenging. Hybrids also have a lot of malic which can present a challenge. To minimize the butter/creamy thing you really want to start MLF before primary fermentation is complete. Yeast will adsorb and metabolize diacetyl which is what makes it buttery. You also want to promote a quick and happy malolactic fermentation which means warmer temps and possibly a malolactic nutrient. A stressed MLF will make more butter which can be used to your advantage if you think you need it. A good culture, well paired to the wine pH and alcohol will help. Finally, if the wine is too creamy or has too much mouth feel, it may be that it also has too little acid and could benefit from a small addition of tartaric acid.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel Thanks for your excellent reply. I generally like red wines made from California grapes. My top 3 wines are Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, and Shiraz.
Lactic acid is the acid found in milk/cheese/butter. I think what you’re asking is about the quantity though. That is going to be controlled by what you feed it. The more malic acid at the start, the more lactic acid at the end. And apparently stopping an active malolactic culture gives off weird rotting geranium flavors. So your best bet is just accounting for malic acid present at the start. If you need a sensory description for tasting the two, malic is sour apple candy, and tartaric acid is the dry puckering acid more common to grapes.
Does potassium meta not help eliminate lingering yeast and malo bacteria? I was under the impression it did, but sounds like it only stops vinegar transformation.
It will hold back malolactic bacteria and most spoilage yeasts but wine yeast has a very high tolerance to SO2. At a high enough dose you can suppress the activity of wine yeast but it generally will not die off but rather just stress it enough to create a good but of hydrogen sulfide. The dose needed is wipe out wine yeast, wild or cultured, is much higher than your would ever want to go into bottle at so high SO2 is not really an effective way to bottle a sweet wine. You do need adequate SO2 if you are using potassium sorbate though. If not, malolactic fermentation may attempt to happen which will create a geranium smell in the presence of sorbic acid.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel as always, wonderful intel. So you recommend a combo of meta and sorbate to fully control malo and yeast. I have never used sorbate prior to bottling so need to test that out. Last question, how early before bottling do you add your metabisulfate and sorbate? I have always thought adding it and letting it sit for awhile was the way to go but didn’t know what your experience was.
@@Seththebot the sorbate is only necessary if you plan to bottle with residual sugar. I don't use it for dry wines. If you back sweeten or cold crash the wine to leave a little sugar, you are likely to get a little fizzy or blow corks in bottle without potassium sorbate.
Another way to stabilise for tartaric acid is to perform a warm stabilization. Let the wine go through an osmotic membrane at high pressure and it will split into two streams, a stream rich of salts (high ppm)and a stream poor of salts (few ppm). In the machine i engineered for Martini in Turin Italy it took only one hour for the high ppm stream to show crystallization of tartrate salts and let them fall out of the solution. The rich ppm stream is actually oversaturated and cannot hold that amount of tartrate salts in the solution. After the elimination of the tartrate salts you need to rejoin both streams. This is an easy and low cost way to eliminate tartrate. It is also selective acting only on those salts. Thanks for your videos which are very informative. Greetings from Italy.
Very cool! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks, you are one of the more informative wine makers on RUclips and have greatly improved me even though I have never done grapes. I have only done fruit wines from what I can find in the mountains. If you ever want some interesting berries, let me know, and I will send them your way
I’m currently fermenting my first ever batch of wine. Some of the information I get from your videos is a bit over my head at this point, but the delivery is worth it. What I can’t find anywhere is the timeline for when to add ingredients /chemicals. Starting with must until pre bottling
Good infos mate. In our winery for cold stability we do Manno stab trials putting all samples into brine liquid in fridge (4 degree) and check if there are crystals or not. And add Manno stab depending on the results.
Great video! Thanks for the comprehensive span of stability!
Always good videos.
Thanks
Excellent video. Super detailed, but still easy to grasp. Thank you!
Try using playback speed at 1.25x. Much more watchable.
Soo much information, thank you so much first time making wine im sure ill mess something up but your video was great, thank you!
Great Info. Thank you.
Now I know why some wines fire up my allergies
Just making my first white wine. I have bubbles on top of my brew. Is this normal. I put it in my first carboy oct 8 . is this normal
Can you backsweeten and use malalactic fermentation to produce a carbonated product? If so how much backsweetening and metabisulfites would you want to use?
I'm waiting when you will analyse temperature ferementation .I have notice it has profound effect on wine .Sometimes when I want to retain aroma I ferment in low temperatures but unfortunately the aroma has fadded away .
I usually give a very high dose of SO2 after fermentation on a white wine and get it into a topped up carboy. Rather than gradually adding SO2, just one big dose. I measure at the time of bottling and adjust if necessary. This prevents MLF which will rob a white of that fruity goodness and it also prevents any subtle oxidation which will also mute fruity aromas. A white wine really should be drank between about 6 months to two years though if you want to catch some of those more fruity aromatics. Beyond that, it will still be good but more subdued.
Another great video, thank you for the information in detail. One question, when wine in carboy or barrel aging for at least half year or longer, how often do you test SO2 and what’s the SO2 reading you prefer to keep? Thank you.
Your videos are amazing! So useful. Thanks a bunch for doing that!
I'm about to back-sweeten plum and fig wines which both ended all the way down at 0.990 . Just one question if I may: should I wait for some time after adding potassium metabisulfate and sorbate before I start back-sweetening, as I'm going to to it by taste so I'll be tasting it? Basically is it safe to add them during the final racking right before back-sweetening and bottling?
Thanks!
Thanks. Recently, I saw a video where they used toasted french oak for a mead. It sounded like it took the mead to a new and interesting level. Have you experimented with any woods?
For white wine. Did you say you will add 2x potassium metabisulfate after fermentation
Is the after primary fermentation or after second racking. Please be verbose on this. Thank you.
Is bentonite safe to clarify red wine.
Enjoying your videos, my question is do you add ML to your must or is it better to add in barrel or demijohn?
Usually you could add ML bacteria to your red wine when the fermentation is over.
You add the ML bacteria to your fermented wine after the grape marc is pressed.
It is very important that you don’t add sulfur dioxide to your fresh wine since Ml bacteria only works when the free sulfur levels are under 30ppm=30mg/l
When ML fermentation is over about in a week or 2 (you know its ended when theres no more CO2 produced) you rack your wine from lees and add sulfur dioxide and set the free sulfur level to your desired level depending on your wine type.
In white wines you add ML bacteria to your wine after the fermentation is over and is racked from the lees.
ML fermentation (sometimes) could happen naturally at any time if Ml bacteria is present in your wine and the free sulfur dioxide level is under 30ppm (although you shouldn’t keep your sulfur dioxide level low just because you are waiting for ML fermentation to happen naturally. Sulfur protects your wine from oxidation and is very important that you adjust the sulfur level on a regular basis.
You can do ML fermentation but it is not necessarily important to put your wine through this process and risk oxidation
If the ph level in your wine is low like 3-3,3 it means that your wine is very acidic and ML could higher your ph since malic acid transforms to lactic acid which is a weaker acid but the ph level shouldn’t exceed 3,5-3,6 since higher ph level compromises wine stabilty.
You can add all kinds of things to your wine but it doesn’t mean you should.
Many wineries are going back to the old fashioned ways because they realise that the best wines are made with natural methods and not by poking your wine with all kinds of stuff and machines.
Hope this helps love and kisses from Hungary
Thank you for the videos. I see you have a Diamond. I am expecting my first batch of Diamonds this fall and have yet to find a recipe. Do you have one that you prefer?
I have a video on making white wine from grapes that will get you in the ballpark. Ferment cool. I really like Renaissance Fresco yeast for white wines. Make sure it doesn't go through MLF. With anything Labrusca, including diamond, you may find that you want to add about 10-15% water to tone down the cloying, Welch's like intensity. You can dial that in later once you get a read on it. You will definitely want to bottle with a little residual sugar also. Somewhere in the 3-7% range or 1.010 to 1.020 on a hydrometer. pH should be somewhere in the 3.1-3.3 range after fermentation or 3.0-3.25 at harvest.
Can i use sodium benzoate?
You speak of Potassium Metabisulfite, what is I use Sodium Metabisulfite, will it have the same effect?
They are both salts that contain sulfur dioxide but one will leave residual potassium while the other will leave sodium. Potassium is natural to grape based wines and any excess will fall out of solution as potassium bitartrate (cream of tartar), so it is generally the preferred option.
You mentioned feeding yeast with Fermaid K. How about Fermaid O. Any preference?
Fermaid O mostly yeast hulls and is a very slow and steady way to feed the yeast. It is also organic. Fermaid K contains yeast hulls but also DAP, making it somewhat quick releasing if you are treating H2S but also capable of feeding for the long haul. Pure DAP is like candy. It is very effective if you need it but it doesn't provide lasting nutrition.
Have you ever boiled the sugar before using it in the wine
Yes, I usually invert it which basically like making a simple syrup with a pinch of acid and letting it simmer for about 30 minutes. The acids in the wine will invert the sucrose (table sugar) into fructose and glucose which will taste a bit sweeter. If you add it in sucrose form it will seem a little sweeter than you intended after about a month.
Is there a malolactic culture that produces minimal amounts of the "creamy/buttery" taste? I've had wines before that were so creamy tasting that I had a hard time drinking them. I really have been avoiding putting my wine through malolactic fermentation because I don't want to end up with an overly buttery flavor.
If it is a white wine or vitus labrusca (Niagara, concord, Catawba, etc) I would not put it through MLF, with very few exceptions (Chardonnay). I generally prefer a crisp white and MLF will send it in the wrong direction. Labrusca grapes have a lot of malic acid and are best if you think of them as somewhere between an apple and a vinifera wine grape. You can make good wine but they shine when you are looking for a juicy wine. Malic acid drops as a grape ripens,.so under ripe grapes can be more challenging. Hybrids also have a lot of malic which can present a challenge. To minimize the butter/creamy thing you really want to start MLF before primary fermentation is complete. Yeast will adsorb and metabolize diacetyl which is what makes it buttery. You also want to promote a quick and happy malolactic fermentation which means warmer temps and possibly a malolactic nutrient. A stressed MLF will make more butter which can be used to your advantage if you think you need it. A good culture, well paired to the wine pH and alcohol will help. Finally, if the wine is too creamy or has too much mouth feel, it may be that it also has too little acid and could benefit from a small addition of tartaric acid.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel Thanks for your excellent reply. I generally like red wines made from California grapes. My top 3 wines are Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, and Shiraz.
Lactic acid is the acid found in milk/cheese/butter. I think what you’re asking is about the quantity though. That is going to be controlled by what you feed it. The more malic acid at the start, the more lactic acid at the end. And apparently stopping an active malolactic culture gives off weird rotting geranium flavors. So your best bet is just accounting for malic acid present at the start.
If you need a sensory description for tasting the two, malic is sour apple candy, and tartaric acid is the dry puckering acid more common to grapes.
Does potassium meta not help eliminate lingering yeast and malo bacteria? I was under the impression it did, but sounds like it only stops vinegar transformation.
It will hold back malolactic bacteria and most spoilage yeasts but wine yeast has a very high tolerance to SO2. At a high enough dose you can suppress the activity of wine yeast but it generally will not die off but rather just stress it enough to create a good but of hydrogen sulfide. The dose needed is wipe out wine yeast, wild or cultured, is much higher than your would ever want to go into bottle at so high SO2 is not really an effective way to bottle a sweet wine. You do need adequate SO2 if you are using potassium sorbate though. If not, malolactic fermentation may attempt to happen which will create a geranium smell in the presence of sorbic acid.
@@TheHomeWinemakingChannel as always, wonderful intel. So you recommend a combo of meta and sorbate to fully control malo and yeast. I have never used sorbate prior to bottling so need to test that out. Last question, how early before bottling do you add your metabisulfate and sorbate? I have always thought adding it and letting it sit for awhile was the way to go but didn’t know what your experience was.
@@Seththebot the sorbate is only necessary if you plan to bottle with residual sugar. I don't use it for dry wines. If you back sweeten or cold crash the wine to leave a little sugar, you are likely to get a little fizzy or blow corks in bottle without potassium sorbate.