True. I don't like certain things done in SW media as of late outside the movies (like Aphra), but Woolie shouldn't be sandbagged from sharing about something he likes.
My way of thinking is, if we get another good Resident Evil game that makes Leon and Chris cool, set after 6, he'll have to explain why those don't count.
also all of Resident Evil, when you look at it all of the characters in Resident Evil 1 are clown-shoes awful, yet here we are with Pat enjoying the series
Hey Pat remember how Woolie called Total Warhammer dumb and sandbagged you for an entire hour. Oh WAITJUSTASECOND. This isnt even a Star Wars thing. This is a "Pat uses goblins an excuse to drag the fun out what could have been an interesting discussion" thing.
@@zigmus00A Except he didn't really. He showed no interest, and just let Pat talk. He's also gotten much better about it as the podcast has gone on. Pat doesn't ever get better. He just tells you that your thing is shit.
@@blitzkriegdragon013 i swore there's even been times where certain fighting game stuff would come up and he would shit on it. I don't mind when he's being an ass sometimes but this just made me really wonder how their friendship was doing
Trashcan dude every time Woolie tried to talk about indivisible from release till now he would do this shit to him. It’s evens more annoying because he’s also sandbagging Mike Z who is also someone he’s friends with.
Pat's hot take doesn't bother me that much. If that's his opinion then whatever. What bothers me is that he wouldn't even let Woolie talk about the comics. Is his mind goblins so bad that he can't let someone praise something he hates without it being a full-blown argument?
It's been extremely frustrating to watch lately. His takes on art and media have been notoriously pretentious and shallow lately. Woolie is bad too, but he shows some aspects of self reflection. Pat just thinks "I don't like it, so if you like it, you're dumb."
Yeah, people make excuses for what is pretty bad behaviour. Personally I don’t take it as “Pat is a rude terrible person” when I hear this, because I assume there’s compartmentalization between who he is on camera and who he is in a social situation. Besides, antagonizing the situation makes for a more interesting debate for the podcast. Even if he’s not doing any of that consciously, it’d be mad unlikely he’s not doing it unconsciously.
It's really not a "big" hit. Only upvotes are really really weighted by the Algorithm and even then, a lot of it gets suppressed again if your Channel isn't already on the pre-approved list of hand-picked "Trending" metrics that many Corporate and "friends of Susan" channels get such an unfair advantage from. The only REAL death sentence for a channel is demonetization for "wrong-think".
Imagine if once every few podcasts we just got a 30 second announcement or a community post of Woolie saying "Yeah guys, today's podcast clip is gonna be uploaded over on Pat's channel for... no particular reason"
@@shadowreaverrising1753 The views don't seem any particularly higher than other clips? "Introvert Power Shields" was posted yesterday and has 20k views.
I mean....he's not wrong.Extended shenanigans doesn't fix the prequels,and they sure as hell dont redeem "I HATE SAND".Sure it's fucked up to hate it,but it's not exactly as if he's wrong on character's being ruined.
@@bearandthebull2372 explain to me how is the sand line wrong? also he didn't scream it he was just making small talk and failing because he's a boy slave who has no social life do people like forget that dude spent the past 13ish years being in a weird cult there is an partly intentional theme of how the jedi code is toxic and just broke the guy
Mastema Howard somebody on an unrelated podcast summed it up pretty well. “What you’re saying is right, but what you are doing is wrong.” It’s fine for Pat to have his opinion, but the constant sandbagging and disrespect to Woolie wasn’t cool.
@@A4Blue-m7n Well yeah pretty sure that was obvious to see,especially with him typing on his keyboard and ignoring woolie(who sounded like a broken defeated man). I agree with many things pat says,however his attitude towards these subjects is an entirely different matter.
To be fair, Woolie has that problem too sometimes, but not to the extreme extent Pat seems to. I’m remembering him describing Ahsoka Tano as a character people suddenly decided to start liking, as if character development couldn’t have been a factor.
It's not about the character development, it's that the character is ruined canonically. I think Pat understands that Anikin's character has changed into cool Darth Vader, but he can't get over the association with loser past-Anikin. It's like if you have a boss that you fear, but then one day you learn that he used to get pegged by a clown. It doesn't matter if he is different now, your image of him is forever changed. It doesn't matter that Darth Vader was cool, now we know he was a moody teenager who killed children and all of his friends because he had a nightmare about the girl he simps for.
"If it doesn't count then why does it matter" Ah yes Pat, I too simply wake up, eat my daily required calories, take a dump and go to sleep without doing anything superfluous.
@@blitzkriegdragon013 The point is that the argument doesn't address why his argument is wrong. It talks down the argument, but it doesn't actually address why the superfluous thing matters when by definition, the superfluous thing doesn't matter.
@@HellecticMojo No, the point, is that it's all fucking superfluous. We all care about superfluous shit. "This isn't canon" well do you like the story? If so, then like the story and care about it. Kotor isn't canon but Pat likes that. But isn't canon, so he shouldn't care right?
@@blitzkriegdragon013 It's not about caring, it's about something counting. Read the OP's post. It's about things "counting" Kotor is indeed superfluous but also good. Prequels are not superfluous to canon, but bad. Prequels have a direct mark against the episodes 4-9 because it alters the context of the canon work. Your personal enjoyment of the work has no bearing on whether something has relevance or not.
I've never felt that bad for woolie. I was listening to the podcast during my walk and the amount of disrespect from Pat once he starts typing and explaining why he is actually not listening to woolie made me so mad that I had to stop and take a sit while I was legit thinking about quitting the podcast .
yer that's definitely my favorite one of all here in this stream of "canons that debunk Pat's entire premise". ...now if only we could get Konami to pull another MG "Survive" but with all of Silent Hill's most popular characters....
"Blame Hayden Christiansen" Look man if we're all gonna dump on pat for being crazy, I'm gonna dump on you too. Blame George Lucas. To paraphrase Plinkett, "Leave him alone, kids. He's a fine actor, he's just doin' the best he can with this shit."
There was someone in a cinemawins comment thread that posited Hayden Christiansen's acting was so weird because he was acting like James Earl Jones. I have no basis for the accuracy of that since I don't get into BTS stuff, but... If you take away the robotic enhancement and polished accent... I can kinda hear it. Add in a decade or so of actual confidence and success instead of constant "repress everything or you're evil" and it makes a lot of sense. That being said, I'm defending Star Wars which puts me on the social scale somewhere between Pol Pot and actually Satan, but I would like to point out that "I hate sand" doesn't really compare to "I would be a toilet if it meant I could live forever," in stupidity.
Darth Vader is lame because Anakin Skywalker is an idiot. PS4 Kratos is cool because PS2 Kratos is an idiot. Wut? Pat just contradicted himself super hard.
I will objectively disagree with anyone that says that Greek era Kratos was a idiot, he was mentally Ill man who got emotionally manipulated and provoked for most of his life, not justified but completely reasonable, but I guess it's devs fault because they stopped focusing on how impactful the events on his life affected him, and of course the fucking visions
@@ricardomiles2957 uh, kratos's reaction to the events of his life is the definition of unreasonable, as in he cannot be reasoned with to change his path by anyone or anything. "man too angry to die crawls out of hell to stab his father" is not generally the description of a reasonable person.
@@Yal_Rathol I see that used one of these meme phrases that are used in mindless copypaste. Let's me just tell you that God of War 1 already starts with Kratos saying he was working for Athena, still on the false promise she would get rid of his visions, for about 10 years. I assume you are probably just with GoW 3 in your head without context of previous games and thinks that Kratos is just killing machine with no character
@@ricardomiles2957 good strawman, thanks for lying about me i guess? and no, kratos's actions and motives are generally quite unreasonable. it's why he tries his hardest to stop atreus from being anything like him and when atreus starts to slip is when kratos becomes actually angry with him. kratos being angry at the gods for using him, fine. being angry at zeus for trying to kill him, fine. but his suicide at the end of 1 is completely unreasonable, his failures as the acting god of war that lead zeus to try and off him are unreasonable and everything following that is a mad, crazed, headlong rush towards zeus from a man too angry to die. he's unreasonable, and it's not until he's killed everone and broken everything that he pauses, takes a deep breath and goes "i've made a terrible mistake."
@@brettbaumler754 Because they want to shoot Pat, but since they can't, they have to settle on the messenger. Which is bad, but people do what they do.
From what I’ve seen in some of the comics, this is taken to an extreme that Vader legitimately considers anakin a separate entity and will kill any that know he is anakin
The good ol' "Official what if/side content is the same as fan fiction" logic. I wish it was just Pat being crazy, but there are so many people who actually think this.
@@Judgement_Kazzy Star Wars did it to itself when the EU was quite literally turned into fan fiction by Disney after being soft canon for so long. So you can see why some people hold that opinion.
I've seen some fanfiction that is objectively better than the source material that they're based on. It's amazing what passion for something without being bogged down by corporate interests and over bearing editors will do to one's ability to write a good story.
@@machine1685 the problem with fanfiction is that the best ones are usually buried under the millions of trash one-shot erotic self-insert shit that i have to wade through just to find, and that ocean of trash is what everyone else sees and gets repulsed by.
People just say that when they disagree with Pat's opinion with which he's an asshole. Nobody cared when he talked mad shit about the people that hated FFVII Remake because they liked it.
@@RDV333 Bruh it's not that he doesn't like it, it that he completely sandbagged woolie and wasted time on what could have been a decent discussion about character development by constantly interrupting woolie.
It's all fiction. None of it happened. It's not like a historical drama depicting a real, documented human being wildly out of character or changing actual historical events. In fact, someone using a shitty character as a springboard for a good story should be commended, especially if they're able to offer interpretations of or positive developments upon disliked elements of the character.
It is the history of a fiction though. History and reality aren't the same thing. That is what creates tension and issues with things like this. Just because it is a fiction doesn't prevent people from feeling things are inconsistent. Even more than history even because in the case of fiction you can have a more in depth view into the inner workings of an individuals mind. Lies, deceit, and falsehoods can stand unknown for less time within a fictional world for the reader than they do for us in our actual history.
Man I saw this title and got so excited cause I thought they were going to talk about all the cool stuff Vader does in the comics and Woolie tries to do that but man I'm 10mins in and this is so hard to listen to
Dante was boring in DMC2 and depressed and cynical in the DMC anime. Therefore Dante will always be boring, cynical, and depressed, and DMC4 and DMC5 are just fanfics. After all, when Dmc came out, those games weren’t canon anymore, just like SMT nocturne featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series. Dante worked for Lucifer in that one. So Dante will always be the sort of person who’d sell his soul to the devil, and nothing after that can change that.
Yeah that would be the discussion to take if DMC2 and the anime were utterly pivotal points in the story that represented the change in Dante's character instead of a beat in the overall story that doesn't matter much
Hero Toxiko ok but that’s what Pat headcanons into existence to justify it. Because he likes DMC, so he makes excuses for it, where as he doesn’t like Star Wars, so he just goes hard on it and throws out explanations
@@brettbaumler754 star wars totally deserves it, blame lucas for all of that. it's even the reverse of the usual problem where unofficial things make it worse. the character was made to be a loser by the creator and other people tried to run it back by making cool things[the issue with the eu tbh]. then again i like maul because he's a total spaz who loses to padawans consistently across all media.
Normal person: Frankly, I find it difficult myself to enjoy this comic knowing that the core main canon has ruined this character FOR ME, but I would love to hear you talk more about why you enjoyed this comic, Woolie. Pat: Almost an hour long rant about why this side entry isn't real because main entry ruined a character.
i think you misunderstand pat, because he's saying the first one except for that last sentence. he isn't saying it's wrong for you to enjoy it, he's saying it wasn't "real", so he doesn't.
Pat's position here is such a target rich environment here. I'd just like to point out that any villain who isn't like a pure force of supernatural evil was a bratty child who probably cried, did something cringy, or wet their pants when they were 6. Do we need to see the ultimate-badass villain as a bratty child or rebellious teen? Probably not, but Star Wars is a generational saga where every background character has a wiki entry, so it's bound to show up eventually. Though I must say ''''NOoooooo! You can't think darth vader is cool! Haven't you seen the Plinkett reviews? Star Wars isn't coool anymore! Nooooooooo" is peak Pat.
The difference is that we don't SEE those villains being a bratty child. We can suspend our disbelief and never have to think about them as anything other than a vilain. That factor is gone with Vader because we have seen him do all of this embarassing stuff, and now he is nowhere near as imposing or intimidating.
@@TheAtlasReview Nah, he is still great. Besides, it was the fans that wanted to know more about his past... and like usual complained when they got what they asked for.
@@unversedhero6028 You can give a character an origin story without making them completely pathetic and laughably stupid. The guy destroys the galaxy because he had a nightmare and acts like a bratty 5-year-old when he's like 21. The villain literally admits that he's evil and behind everything and he still let's himself get manipulated, then does a 100% character change in a split second to slaughtering children and strangling his pregnant wife. Prequels are dumb, man.
@@TheAtlasReview Every single character in existence was a crappy character before they became goo or didn't and stayed the same, that's pretty much why character development exists, to make them better and Anakin went from brat to evil badass. It doesn't matter when you get to see the character development, the point is that you see it and The Clone Wars does a great job at developing Anakin and showing how he got to the point where he is in Star Wars episode 3. If you want to ignore the character development or don't like it, then that's your problem, not the canons problem.
It’s so annoying. Like he(Woolie) likes things you(Pat) don’t, he’s not trying to make you like them too, why are you making this into a fucking argument that never existed?
"I don't get it" The problem, Woolie, is that you're expecting Pat to be a reasonable person with SOME sense of internal consistency and a logical reason as to why he thinks the way he does. The problem is he isn't and he doesn't. Pat is a hypocrite, and his opinions and thoughts are often completely untenable with what he actually does. Stop trying to understand it Woolie, there's nothing to understand. Pat is just wrong, and he's blindly incapable to applying his own standards evenly or engaging in proper introspection
He is and does engage in proper introspection, it's just on a time delay of 4+ hours after all of us on the discord (mods included) chew him out for his dumb, poorly thought out opinions.
@@vyxxer Except that dante being "boring and sad" is actually good character development that pays off in 4.plus dante being like that isn't some egregious thing that would shit on a character or make them bad. Everything else is just him being a hypocrite at certain points though.
The most frustrating part is that there are times when he does seem to actually try to understand why people are getting mad at him, but within a few comments of the discussion being had, he seems to only reply to trolls and people acting like complete dumbasses, which to him reinforces that he's correct and that everyone else is just being piss babies.
Honestly the take of "Sometimes a character canonically does or says something so amazingly terrible/distracting that it is near impossible to think about the character without being reminded of the bad stuff, even when they are being super awesome" is perfectly valid. Its just this sequel/prequel/flashback nonsense that Pat adds which is super dumb.
I certainly think it’s *possible* to make a storytelling decision with a character which cuts so thoroughly against what they previously signified to their audience in a visible enough way that no future retconning can really undo the damage. I just think it takes something a little more destructive than “was whiny in a series of films that have been consensus rejected by the majority of the audience, pop culture at large, and to an extent the people in charge of continuing the narrative”.
I think that's downplaying it a little bit to say he was just whiny. I mean he went to the dark side by being very obviously tricked, and even when it was obvious that he was being had, he just kept going full throttle. It's hard to disconnect that when every supplemental material doesnt show that as a stupid thing to do, and instead tries to convince you he's a cool dude
@@Champiness "was whiny in a series of films that have been consensus rejected by the majority of the audience, pop culture at large, and to an extent the people in charge of continuing the narrative" That's still in canon. It hasn't been rejected at all. There wouldn't be so much hate and meme against it if it was rejected. It's a bitter pill the everyone swallows as canon, hence the hate.
55:46 of Woolie trying to say "I enjoyed this thing" and Pat shouting "But sand though! You can't enjoy anything because SAND EXISTS!" I think Pat is actually dead now and his Mind Goblins are just piloting his corpse.
i think his default expression is smug. you can't fault the man for that. does explain why he got into violent fights every couple of days from age 5 to age 18.
@@cattibingo having your face be set at birth to default to "smug" is not your fault, nor does it make you an ass. my face defaults to "disinterested", doesn't mean i'm a misanthrope. him playing into it is what makes him an ass.
I like pat but danm yeah i can kinda see it sometimes. Atleast now we got the real star Woolie being even more prominent. I just love woolie with reggies and the others.
Ah yes, Matt and Liam left because Pat **checks notes** has dumb opinions on fiction. Yep that must be the sole reason why. Y'all need to chill a bit lol
@@IndoorSitup No, it's because he'll throw this long winded rant and never concede in an argument because he needs to win, even if his stance becomes nonsense. People like you always telling others to chill, why don't you tell Pat that? Literally only gets away with it because assholes like you also praise this stupid behavior while level headed people are somehow "wrong" for countering an insane man.
Not to say they are in any way perfect either cause boy do they have their flaws but if I had to deal with something like what happened in this video I would tap out so hard.
Pat's argument is like saying the original anime run of Full Metal Alchemist and what they did with their characters MUST be taken into consideration when discussing FMA:B/Manga characters despite it being made by two different creative minds.
Not at all? Star Wars have a singular canon even if it's switched around. Each FMA is a take/medium of the story, not a singular canon. No matter how cool Vader is, in canon, he's a dumb children butcher.
The question isn't about what Vader is or was, it's how someone can apparently not have the ability to look at one part without the influence of another, like a normal person. But Pat's anything but normal, so...
@@Kektus1 That's the point of canon, for narratives to have connection. If narratives and traits connecting between works have no bearing then people would be foolish for being mad at Luke's violent solution or Han's inability to change being out of character and thematically incongruous in the Disney trilogy.
Honestly I don't understand Pat's take at all here. Like yeah Anakin wasn't a good character in the movies, but so much time passes between prequels and the OT that he's not even the same person. Does character development not exist?
Yeah but we never get to see that development except with comic books. I agree that Pat was dismissive but the example of Darth vader being a bad character I end up agreeing with
@@cameronmills3599 most of that development is in the clone wars and is kinda the main point of the series, to bridge the gap between cringy teenage anakin and the kinda badass anakin from episode 3 and setting up vader
@@IShadowStrykerI oh I have no doubt that the clone wars is quality, and I dont mean to downplay your point but it's supplemental material while the movie is the main source
@@cameronmills3599 Okay now I to ask you to define supplemental considering it's not only the largest part of the canon (at least the movie and the new series are) but are important to understanding the plot of episode 3 considering greivous is one of the main antagonists and there is no backstory or introduction to his character, you were just supposed to remember him curb stomping shaggy and the other jedi and taking their lightsabers, the same goes for the fact that anakin skywalker went from that whiny teenager in aotc to the battle hardened jedi by fighting in a war and due to his constant battles with asajj ventress(both characters fates were changed when the mini-series became the series but their roles are basically the same because they are intrinsic to the story). I also have to ask where this false sense that the movies are somehow more canon than the cartoon that bridges them together and introduces/changes characters that are integral to the next movie, especially when the sequel trilogy is a narrative nightmare that most of the fanbase agrees messes up alot of the canon and in my opinion will soon probably be considered non-canon or at the very least go in the same space as the holiday special.
@@IShadowStrykerI You've clearly thought about this a lot and again I dont mean to downplay your point but Clone Wars is written by a completely different guy. I'm not saying Clone Wars isnt quality, but George Lucas didnt come up with any of that. It speaks a lot more that Dave Filoni was able to make that mess into something of quality, but you cant tell me that Clone Wars was always in the plans, it came out 10 years later. Edit: my mistake it actually came out 6 years later, but my point still stands
League is actually kinda interesting to Woolie just b/c of the built in ELO rating **over** Grinding as well as the FEED meme. It's the whole MMORPG rng-to-Gearup-in_order_to_RAID-toGearUpAgain-to_RNG_HARDER-for_meeting-Stupid-GearScore-Check-to_hit_Final_RNGGrind -- Just to have the Level Cap and Gear cap RAISED AGAIN when the next "expansion" drops bullshit Skinner Box Nightmare that the entire genre has become --- THIS is what damages the Woolie
I'm not going to dislike this video, because this is Woolie's channel, and Woolie was not the crux of everyone's anger at this hour of the podcast. Pat actively fanboys when he disregards his OWN VIEWS about how "characters can be ruined forever" just because the argument gets applied to characters he likes (Dante, Raiden, most Resident Evil protagonists). If you are going to have an opinion on how character potrayals should be, that opinion should at LEAST apply to every fictional character fairly. Pat is trying to shit all over Woolie's enjoyment of Vader and Star Wars as a whole because he doesn't care about Star Wars. It's very aggravating because not only is that immature of a podcaster as far as keeping conversations lively, it's being a bad friend by not letting your friend just say "Yo this is cool." I'm not saying I always agree with Woolie's views, but at least he has the patience to deal with Pat's [Crazy Talk], and more importantly, admit when he feels he makes a mistake. Pat doesn't, thats why this video has a lot of dislikes
You know what? You make me think that this was a stand battle between [Bring me to life] and [Crazy Talk] that any of them powers could win and just nullyfing thier abilities. Because Pat was in the believe that Vader sucks forever and ever, but Woolie was admiring the way Vader was doing right in the comics. So woolie keep his chill was his stand remind him that the joy he got from seeing cool and dumb shit. Whoever, Pat stand amplifies his hatred of no find enjoy for something he could care if it wasnt ruined for him. That would be more interesting that this segment of the podcast dragging on and on.
Yal Rathol except it’s not. Woolie’s control preference is literally only for himself and he makes it aggressively clear he is not pushing it on anyone else or even recommending it. If he wants to play PC games with a lemon jacked into a battery then that’s his prerogative and there’s no argument to be had. That’s different then antagonizing someone’s interest in something for no good reason like Pat does.
@@gummyboots except pat repeatedly states "i don't get it" and "i don't like this". he never says "you are wrong for liking it" like a bunch of people seem to be thinking he's saying. and yeah, pat is generally more direct and antagonistic than woolie, it's why they have discussions and debates at all, because if pat doesn't antagonize woolie, this podcast would be "i like the thing", "i don't like the thing", "ok", "time for the news". that antagonism is an large aspect of pat's personality, and if you haven't noticed, it's there in woolie too. or did you forget him repeatedly encouraging racism, slurs and stating he would sell all of humanity out for a jetpack?
I’m glad everyone in the comments are almost unilaterally praising Woolie’s handling of Pats absolutely bonkers mind goblin attitude. I think he really needs to explain to Pat that taking such a standoffish stance when it’s over something as minor as Woolie enjoying a comic book can make his enjoyment of it feel trivialised.
Woolie is trying to Jeet Kun Do His Star Wars experience while Pat is fine throwing the baby with the bath water. Woolie: Hey There’s some cool stuff to look at! Pat: But that one thing tho Woolie: Yeah, but here’s some cool stuff! Pat: But that *ONE THING* tho…
Pat puts way too much stock into what the official “canon” line is. Make your own head canon if the original sucks. I’ve been doing it for years with pretty much everything.
This is exactly imo what should be the best take on any story or franchise. As a consumer, we should take the enjoyable interpretation or versions of things despite the OG Author’s writing of characters. DBZ is a pretty good example where we got a better story simply cus editors helped Toriyama’s story. Much like the Star Wars editors as opposed to Lucus. Pat’s argument is bad because it would means the editors work is essentially fanfiction as opposed to what OG authors intended. Not to mention, authors could still retcon the bad stuff so it never happens.
@@tank19768 pat is a bug man. I sometimes look at him and see what he is: a 30 something fatman who plays videogames for a living. He cannot create. He is a worm that shrieks for things to be how he wants. He will not change.
or if the thing sucks why try changing it at all.If you're going to do head canon just comp up with your own original stuff at that point. A good writer is wasted on Star Wars
Providence Cus there’s still cool stuff in fictional works like light sabers and telekinesis. People are invested in the cool parts, if something entirely sucks we wouldn’t have this conversation.
@@rishnix it's like the new star wars game. it doesn't matter if it's canon it's good enough on its own with new characters. if the new game had vader everyone would take them way more seriously and shit on it
Yeah, every day where I keep listening to the podcast it becomes more and more apparent why SBFP fell apart. If I was Matt or Liam I'd not been able to put up with this either. Woolz is a Saint.
Pat claiming Clone Wars is supplement when like 4 of its main characters are about to appear in Mando S2 which is more successful than the last 4 movies they’ve made is what instantly breaks this madman argument
It's also literally the only piece of expanded universe material that was allowed to keep canon status alongside the movies when Disney bought Lucasfilm. They were equivalent in canon to the films. All the cool shit that Anakin does in that show is just as valid as anything in Episode 1-3.
To be fair, in an argument about movie canon, the shows ARE supplemental. I can't make an argument about Anakin being a good character based off TCW. He's not that character in the prequel movies.
Dizzy Doom 1. There wasn’t even room for an argument about movies or canon because all Woolie was trying to do was talk about a book he read. 2. Movie canon isn’t a thing. That’s not something that exists. Especially when the main plot of episode 9 is only comprehensible with fortnite limited events and encyclopedias. 3. Clone Wars has more attention and respect than the movies at this point. Who gives a single fuck about the movies when all the “supplemental” material is better in every way. Clone wars has more eyes on it and a bigger say on what Star Wars is than any movie that isn’t a new hope at this point. A min of bad line read in a 20 year old movie can’t overshadow over 3,024 minutes of a television show and 1,100 pages of comics just because “but I didn’t wanna watch it cuz I’m a lil piss baby” the baseline of Pat’s argument reads like “I’m not gonna play DMC5 because I didn’t like Ninja Theory’s DmC
@@culturedpopcultureforall622 How does movie canon not exist when episodes 1-9 are an interconnected chain of movies that springboard off one another's narrative? That sounds a tad silly to say. Also, I don't care for the sequels, yeah, but I WANT to. It's what makes their decline so frustrating. But yeah, I very much agree with you on Pat being unfair to Woolie and overshadowing his conversation with his negativity. It should be Woolie discussing what he likes about the Vader comics.
@@dizzydoom4230 by that logic episodes 2 and 3 are really only connected through the clone wars (originally the mini series then the full one) so the "movie canon" thing really falls apart
I have trouble to not believe Pat does that intentionally. Sometimes he is so damn Pat that it's absurd. Like Woolie genuinely wants to talk about this stuff and I love hearing people talking about what they like, that's why I listen to this podcast, but whenever there's someone who just can't make conversation and just listen and let the thing flow, it ruins it. It isn't hard just to listen to Woolie and comment here and there to make he expand his points, he has to drive it down to dirt like "How can you enjoy something I don't?". It's so pleasure killing, it's the mental cockblocking of conversations. That's the problem. I don't care if you don't like and you explain why (which is the reason I watch Red Letter Media), but literally trying to pull something that FEELS (it isn't) like the person is stupid for enjoying, it's terrible. It's not first time Pat conversation feels like that too. I still love him all these years I've been following, but holy shit man. And I don't even care about Star Wars or anything, it's just how he is acting.
It kind of reaches the point of absurdity how many times toward the end Woolie is just stressing "I'm not trying to sell it, I just want to talk about what I like" and how long it took Pat to let that sink in and actually stop the argument part of his brain.
It's the same reason I, under my breath, just say "shut the fuck up" every time anything about Indivisible comes up and he feels the need to get the last word in, making a comment about how, a completely fine (not perfect by any means, but decent) game that wasn't to his taste, is bad and no one should play it. It comes off as incredibly petty for no reason other than self-gratification.
It does comes off petty! Once he was making tweet after tweet trying to be right about him acting the same way about other topic and people was mad at him, I tried to say it sounded he was doing on purpose, it was about "why people do art I see no reason just consume", and he was just rude about it and people barged in and started tweeting a lot at me. Look, it's cool you explaining why you don't like and breaking it down, I believe the podcast audience is all onboard with this. However, when someone starts talking about why they like something, that is not THE MOMENT! One example is saying you don't like someone at their funeral. Totally acceptable to talk about this, NOT AT THAT MOMENT. Knowing that and being empathetic towards someone liking something would go a long way to avoid these annoying bits in the podcast.
Hypotheticals and character progression doesnt exist in Pats mind. No one ever did cringy shit when they were a teen and then grew out of it. Never. Pat is still the exact same person he was when he was a teenager, he hasnt matured at all. This is Pats world.
As an aside not related to the conversation, did anyone else get like 20+ ads in this video?! Jesus christ youtube, could you not do that? Could barely go 2 minutes without being interrupted.
I felt so bad for Woolie during this whole segment. And the fact that Pat was immediately tweeting as the disagreement was happening to find out if anyone else agrees with him (because in the past he's gone so far as to introduce an entire poll which will almost always be biased) felt real weird to me too
Pat's says that u can't un-ruin a character but u can just look at Darth Maul in the prequels he had like 5 minutes of screen time but in the Clone War saga they made him awesome
Throughout this whole thing, I just want to ask Pat something. Why do you care? For someone who just see Anakin as the horny obsessed Sand man, you keep seeming to just reel it back to that point. Yes Anakin was a really stupid character, but if that's your only argument, then why do you keep making it? Especially for a person *that does not, and has never existed?* Characters can be rewritten any which way, fanfics in themselves are just that, fanfics. But hey, maybe one out of a few fanfics will make a character like Anakin or Darth Vader work, but nope... Sand Man. Fucking Sand.
10 minutes were spent talking about the thing thats in the title, the other 38 were Pat talking over Woolie about how he’s stupid for liking a thing he doesn’t like.
Completely understandable, chat is often full of shit or just saying whatever to get a glance. Pats stream chats are excellent sources of this sort of thing, presumably woolies as well if I could ever see it on the clips
Woolie: So I'm reading a cool comic, I wanna talk about how it's cool. Pat: MAN I CAN'T TALK ABOUT THAT AT ALL CAUSE MY STAR WARS BRAIN IS PERMANENTLY BROKEN. Woolie: ...okay....so I'm reading a cool comic, I wanna talk about how it's cool. (rinse, repeat) (get to 25:00 where Woolie's trying to tell Pat he's being ridiculous and then explains the very thing I just posted but Pat interrupts him) _> Well that wasn't awkward at all. I realize Pat's got his mind goblins and he chases shit, but read the freaking room for two seconds and comprehend where the conversation is being steered. Like when Pat said, "Oh there's cool stuff in those comics" it felt (TO ME, not Woolie, so really what Woolie is feeling in that moment is what's important) like he's just deflating and letting Woolie do his thing because Pat finally got to make his point for freaking 30 minutes. But c'mon, if Vader is ruined for you, at the very least you can talk about the cool things or let Woolie do so and then tagline at the end the same thing everyone else has been saying, "It sucks Disney messed a lot of that up. it sucks George messed a lot of that up. But yeah, the lightsaber rifle is freaking amazing. put that in the movies next please." That's all Pat had to say while Woolie talked about it.
Lonequacker as much as I love Best of the Worst, I’ve noticed RLM fans are like some of the most annoying contrarians ever. They just parrot whatever RLM says till it’s beaten to death and thinking they’re unique and original for saying so
This is my problem with most internet opinions nowadays. Most people, and I apologize for generalizing, just take in opinions and regurgitate them as fact without adding ideas to the opinion. At least Redlettermedia have intricate, critical, and humorous discussions without feeding to much into a angry rant. They're professional with their dark humor and offer insightful views even if I don't agree with them all the time.
Also what gets me about Pat when talking about Vader as a teenager vs Vader as an adult is that they changed as people since the period of teenager and adult, and surprised he didn't figure out people change as time goes by, at least most people.
Pat's stance is that you can't dissasociate the shitty things from the good stuff in media. While many of us are able to do that, I for once do unserstand that point of view as seeing how all the pieces play out in something is important too. What happened here is that Pat doubled down without explaining his argument more clearly, so he can come of as incredibly antagonizing
This, many people can dissasosiate shitty things buy I think that because the topic is STAR WARS their fandom can be really toxic sometimes, Pat is just being Pat and nothing wrong with that, well maybe a little.
On the flip side I sometimes genuinely try and dissuade people from getting into things that will disappoint them like Naruto or RE6 both of which still has defenders.
Pat literally being that guy that goes to a friend saying "Hey that thing you're interested in, THAT thing you hold some enjoyment in atm, that's garbage you should stop wasting your time".
I got a friend like Pat. They always want to talk about their interests and get upset when I don't get into them, but the moment I start talking about my own they sandbag me and act like I'm wasting their time.
Calling 2008 Clone Wars "supplemental" is crazy, it was like the one thing that Disney kept canon alongside the films. And now CW's and Rebels stuff is know leaking into shows like The Mandolorian.
Im tapping out. Pats mental health has been steadily declining the past few years and hes just gotten so toxic. Between the whole littering thing and now just treating woolie like shit i dont think i can seperate him from his work and look past how awful he is.
Should have just called this segment "Pat"
Correction: Should have called it "Pat... just stop... please."
Pat (FINAL)
Pat 75 days in quarantine and counting cause who else would count
Cyro mancer of the abyss Pat and Pat are no longer friends
@@heefmvc pat has left his body
I think we can all sympathize with Woolie here regardless of how you feel about the content.
True. I don't like certain things done in SW media as of late outside the movies (like Aphra), but Woolie shouldn't be sandbagged from sharing about something he likes.
Dude I couldn't even finish listening to this. Pat just destroyed this podcast bc he wanted to be a whiny manchild.
It really hit me just how absurd his argument is when he said if Picard was lame in a prequel he would no longer think Picard was ever cool
By that logic he now looks like a huge asshole for praising DMC 3 through 5, because 2 exists, and therefore he shouldn't think the rest are cool
My way of thinking is, if we get another good Resident Evil game that makes Leon and Chris cool, set after 6, he'll have to explain why those don't count.
also all of Resident Evil,
when you look at it all of the characters in Resident Evil 1 are clown-shoes awful, yet here we are with Pat enjoying the series
Picard was a French nancy living on a vineyard getting his ass kicked every day. This is canon. Pat is an ass. This is canon.
I mean yes? prequels have the power to retroactively make a character dumb.
Woolie really just wanted to talk about his comics.
Yeah and pat just kind of shot him down and stopped Woolie from talking about something he likes.
Punished Woolie
A man denied his comics
Hey Pat remember how Woolie called Total Warhammer dumb and sandbagged you for an entire hour. Oh WAITJUSTASECOND.
This isnt even a Star Wars thing. This is a "Pat uses goblins an excuse to drag the fun out what could have been an interesting discussion" thing.
Yes I explicitly remember that. Except it wasn't warhammer it was Final Fantasy 14 and League of Legends
@@zigmus00A Except he didn't really. He showed no interest, and just let Pat talk. He's also gotten much better about it as the podcast has gone on. Pat doesn't ever get better. He just tells you that your thing is shit.
@@blitzkriegdragon013 i swore there's even been times where certain fighting game stuff would come up and he would shit on it. I don't mind when he's being an ass sometimes but this just made me really wonder how their friendship was doing
@@TC-ek6fo It is worrisome honestly.
Trashcan dude every time Woolie tried to talk about indivisible from release till now he would do this shit to him. It’s evens more annoying because he’s also sandbagging Mike Z who is also someone he’s friends with.
Pat's hot take doesn't bother me that much. If that's his opinion then whatever. What bothers me is that he wouldn't even let Woolie talk about the comics. Is his mind goblins so bad that he can't let someone praise something he hates without it being a full-blown argument?
This is nothing new, really. Lol
Mind goblins are just his excuse to act like a manchild anyway. Always have been.
@@carloscarmona1523 Pretty sure it was never meant to be an excuse.
It's been extremely frustrating to watch lately. His takes on art and media have been notoriously pretentious and shallow lately. Woolie is bad too, but he shows some aspects of self reflection. Pat just thinks "I don't like it, so if you like it, you're dumb."
Yeah, people make excuses for what is pretty bad behaviour. Personally I don’t take it as “Pat is a rude terrible person” when I hear this, because I assume there’s compartmentalization between who he is on camera and who he is in a social situation. Besides, antagonizing the situation makes for a more interesting debate for the podcast. Even if he’s not doing any of that consciously, it’d be mad unlikely he’s not doing it unconsciously.
Pour one out for Woolie's channel taking the hit for another one of Pat's takes.
If I'm not mistaken, engagement is engagement as far as the recommendation algo is concerned
It's really not a "big" hit. Only upvotes are really really weighted by the Algorithm and even then, a lot of it gets suppressed again if your Channel isn't already on the pre-approved list of hand-picked "Trending" metrics that many Corporate and "friends of Susan" channels get such an unfair advantage from. The only REAL death sentence for a channel is demonetization for "wrong-think".
Imagine if once every few podcasts we just got a 30 second announcement or a community post of Woolie saying "Yeah guys, today's podcast clip is gonna be uploaded over on Pat's channel for... no particular reason"
Please. Look at the number of comments. The views. Looks like Pat did him a favor.
@@shadowreaverrising1753 The views don't seem any particularly higher than other clips? "Introvert Power Shields" was posted yesterday and has 20k views.
Woolie's patience is truly legendary.
Of course. Woolie is the only person to ever work with Pat without having some sort of emotional breakdown.
@@libertarianvoter what about paige?
Been at it for 10 years with pat of all people
Considering he's been friends with pat for more a decade and it's still friends with minh I'd say he's built a resistance
@@thomaslavitola7789 What *about* Paige?
Woolie: All I’m saying is these stories are really good and I enjoyed Darth Vader in them.
Pat: Yeah but sand though.
I mean....he's not wrong.Extended shenanigans doesn't fix the prequels,and they sure as hell dont redeem "I HATE SAND".Sure it's fucked up to hate it,but it's not exactly as if he's wrong on character's being ruined.
@@bearandthebull2372 explain to me how is the sand line wrong?
also he didn't scream it he was just making small talk and failing because he's a boy slave who has no social life
do people like forget that dude spent the past 13ish years being in a weird cult
there is an partly intentional theme of how the jedi code is toxic and just broke the guy
@@silentnuno4419 of course but like who cares?
Mastema Howard somebody on an unrelated podcast summed it up pretty well. “What you’re saying is right, but what you are doing is wrong.” It’s fine for Pat to have his opinion, but the constant sandbagging and disrespect to Woolie wasn’t cool.
@@A4Blue-m7n Well yeah pretty sure that was obvious to see,especially with him typing on his keyboard and ignoring woolie(who sounded like a broken defeated man).
I agree with many things pat says,however his attitude towards these subjects is an entirely different matter.
Woolie had the patience of a saint through this, going to go sub to his twitch just for being able to deal with whatever this is.
Woolie is amazing in his patience in general, specially to deal with Pat's weird bullshit on a week to week basis
The fact that Castle Super Beast even exists is a monument to Woolie's patients. Canonize the man already!
Apparently Pat doesn’t think character development is a thing that exists
ContraryPython why would he, Pat didn’t grow past the 3rd grade
@@myonlyfriendtheend4958 TALK TO EM
@@myonlyfriendtheend4958 The character arc stopped at a certain point but they kept on appearing, just like most Naruto characters.
To be fair, Woolie has that problem too sometimes, but not to the extreme extent Pat seems to. I’m remembering him describing Ahsoka Tano as a character people suddenly decided to start liking, as if character development couldn’t have been a factor.
It's not about the character development, it's that the character is ruined canonically. I think Pat understands that Anikin's character has changed into cool Darth Vader, but he can't get over the association with loser past-Anikin.
It's like if you have a boss that you fear, but then one day you learn that he used to get pegged by a clown. It doesn't matter if he is different now, your image of him is forever changed.
It doesn't matter that Darth Vader was cool, now we know he was a moody teenager who killed children and all of his friends because he had a nightmare about the girl he simps for.
"Has everyone lost their mind"-man who has lost his mind
When he said that all i could think was pat has zero self awareness sometimes
Pat shot himself in the foot the minute he started creating arbitrary rules that would justify his feelings.
So he shoots himself in the foot every few minutes of his life?
You just provided the best description of Pat that has ever been written.
Pats mistake was thinking he had to justify *feelings*
You're right Pat, people don't change when they get older. They just go into stasis after 16.
Well you see Pat actually never changed so he just assumes no else did.
Meanwhile: in the future of reality
Must have taken all of Woolies strength to not just mute Pat & finish what he wanted to say.
"If it doesn't count then why does it matter"
Ah yes Pat, I too simply wake up, eat my daily required calories, take a dump and go to sleep without doing anything superfluous.
You fail to address that it is indeed superflous and doesn't matter.
@@HellecticMojo You failed to, indeed, get the point.
@@blitzkriegdragon013 The point is that the argument doesn't address why his argument is wrong. It talks down the argument, but it doesn't actually address why the superfluous thing matters when by definition, the superfluous thing doesn't matter.
@@HellecticMojo No, the point, is that it's all fucking superfluous. We all care about superfluous shit. "This isn't canon" well do you like the story? If so, then like the story and care about it. Kotor isn't canon but Pat likes that. But isn't canon, so he shouldn't care right?
@@blitzkriegdragon013 It's not about caring, it's about something counting. Read the OP's post. It's about things "counting"
Kotor is indeed superfluous but also good.
Prequels are not superfluous to canon, but bad. Prequels have a direct mark against the episodes 4-9 because it alters the context of the canon work.
Your personal enjoyment of the work has no bearing on whether something has relevance or not.
I've never felt that bad for woolie. I was listening to the podcast during my walk and the amount of disrespect from Pat once he starts typing and explaining why he is actually not listening to woolie made me so mad that I had to stop and take a sit while I was legit thinking about quitting the podcast .
DARK SIDE POINTS GAINED
INFLUENCE LOST: CHAT
The rise of Darth Couchimus.
Always Two, There Are
DarkSydePat.
welp, re 6 existed, guess everything resident evil is over now.
this weird logic is so busted and goblin based.
It kinda was.
RE7 went in a completely different direction and the remakes are basically reestablishing the canons now.
yer that's definitely my favorite one of all here in this stream of "canons that debunk Pat's entire premise".
...now if only we could get Konami to pull another MG "Survive" but with all of Silent Hill's most popular characters....
@@HellecticMojo Yea but that doesn't count because RE6 tho.
@@ghirahimlefabuleux8984 No, you fool. You are messing up the chronology. 7 and remakes are made to distance away from 6. Restablish canon.
@@HellecticMojo The problem is by Pats logic even REBOOTING THE ENTIRE FRANCHISE doesn't erase RE6.
Jesus christ pat
"Blame Hayden Christiansen"
Look man if we're all gonna dump on pat for being crazy, I'm gonna dump on you too. Blame George Lucas. To paraphrase Plinkett, "Leave him alone, kids. He's a fine actor, he's just doin' the best he can with this shit."
The roman lol roma😆😆 those scenes where bad. Real bad but they made up for it.
Lucas himself said it wasn't Hayden's fault.
There was someone in a cinemawins comment thread that posited Hayden Christiansen's acting was so weird because he was acting like James Earl Jones. I have no basis for the accuracy of that since I don't get into BTS stuff, but... If you take away the robotic enhancement and polished accent... I can kinda hear it. Add in a decade or so of actual confidence and success instead of constant "repress everything or you're evil" and it makes a lot of sense.
That being said, I'm defending Star Wars which puts me on the social scale somewhere between Pol Pot and actually Satan, but I would like to point out that "I hate sand" doesn't really compare to "I would be a toilet if it meant I could live forever," in stupidity.
Darth Vader is lame because Anakin Skywalker is an idiot.
PS4 Kratos is cool because PS2 Kratos is an idiot.
Wut? Pat just contradicted himself super hard.
I will objectively disagree with anyone that says that Greek era Kratos was a idiot, he was mentally Ill man who got emotionally manipulated and provoked for most of his life, not justified but completely reasonable, but I guess it's devs fault because they stopped focusing on how impactful the events on his life affected him, and of course the fucking visions
"Character development doesnt exist"- Pat maybe.
@@ricardomiles2957 uh, kratos's reaction to the events of his life is the definition of unreasonable, as in he cannot be reasoned with to change his path by anyone or anything. "man too angry to die crawls out of hell to stab his father" is not generally the description of a reasonable person.
@@Yal_Rathol I see that used one of these meme phrases that are used in mindless copypaste.
Let's me just tell you that God of War 1 already starts with Kratos saying he was working for Athena, still on the false promise she would get rid of his visions, for about 10 years. I assume you are probably just with GoW 3 in your head without context of previous games and thinks that Kratos is just killing machine with no character
@@ricardomiles2957 good strawman, thanks for lying about me i guess?
and no, kratos's actions and motives are generally quite unreasonable. it's why he tries his hardest to stop atreus from being anything like him and when atreus starts to slip is when kratos becomes actually angry with him.
kratos being angry at the gods for using him, fine. being angry at zeus for trying to kill him, fine. but his suicide at the end of 1 is completely unreasonable, his failures as the acting god of war that lead zeus to try and off him are unreasonable and everything following that is a mad, crazed, headlong rush towards zeus from a man too angry to die. he's unreasonable, and it's not until he's killed everone and broken everything that he pauses, takes a deep breath and goes "i've made a terrible mistake."
*Clicks on video, sees the like/dislike ratio*
Here we go again...
Yeah I don’t get why people are disliking the video, this is Woolies channel. Pat has a dumb opinion but like why dislike Woolies video
@@brettbaumler754 Hey remember how Woolie forced that guy to eat raw meat so he would get fired?
and guess what... it's Pat AGAIN
@@Jstar300 What is the context of this?
@@brettbaumler754 Because they want to shoot Pat, but since they can't, they have to settle on the messenger.
Which is bad, but people do what they do.
My argument for pat hating anikin and now Vader: remember how shitty you were as a teen or kid? Yea Vader is trying to forget that like you are.
Pat never progressed past that stage
Pat is like your parent constantly bringing up stuff you did in middle school as an argument when you are a grown ass adult now
Well said
From what I’ve seen in some of the comics, this is taken to an extreme that Vader legitimately considers anakin a separate entity and will kill any that know he is anakin
But pats is just a beirdy child
I feel really bad for Woolie because it seemed like he really wanted to talk about a thing but it devolved into a Pat rant.
"I don't get fanfiction"
So this whole argument is pointless and will go nowhere. Cool. Glad that flag was raised so I could tell when to tap out.
The good ol' "Official what if/side content is the same as fan fiction" logic.
I wish it was just Pat being crazy, but there are so many people who actually think this.
@@Judgement_Kazzy yeah. It's all fiction anyways. If it's a good/cool story then who cares? It's not real!
@@Judgement_Kazzy Star Wars did it to itself when the EU was quite literally turned into fan fiction by Disney after being soft canon for so long. So you can see why some people hold that opinion.
I've seen some fanfiction that is objectively better than the source material that they're based on. It's amazing what passion for something without being bogged down by corporate interests and over bearing editors will do to one's ability to write a good story.
@@machine1685 the problem with fanfiction is that the best ones are usually buried under the millions of trash one-shot erotic self-insert shit that i have to wade through just to find,
and that ocean of trash is what everyone else sees and gets repulsed by.
Woolie: "So I've been reading these Darth Vader comics and I think they are pretty cool, you see-"
Pat: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
Me: Didn't watch the podcast.
Everyone Else: I'm taking a break from Pat.
Me: (Anxiety rises)
He does need to get outside and be around people.
@@Chubbz969 Don't wish the Rona on Pat.
Oh... like in general...yeeaaaaahhh....
People just say that when they disagree with Pat's opinion with which he's an asshole. Nobody cared when he talked mad shit about the people that hated FFVII Remake because they liked it.
@@JoseRS1186 That's not what he's saying. He needs to be reminded how to be a decent human being towards other people.
@@RDV333 Bruh it's not that he doesn't like it, it that he completely sandbagged woolie and wasted time on what could have been a decent discussion about character development by constantly interrupting woolie.
It's all fiction. None of it happened. It's not like a historical drama depicting a real, documented human being wildly out of character or changing actual historical events. In fact, someone using a shitty character as a springboard for a good story should be commended, especially if they're able to offer interpretations of or positive developments upon disliked elements of the character.
Wait, you're talking about Pat?
It is the history of a fiction though. History and reality aren't the same thing. That is what creates tension and issues with things like this. Just because it is a fiction doesn't prevent people from feeling things are inconsistent. Even more than history even because in the case of fiction you can have a more in depth view into the inner workings of an individuals mind. Lies, deceit, and falsehoods can stand unknown for less time within a fictional world for the reader than they do for us in our actual history.
Man I saw this title and got so excited cause I thought they were going to talk about all the cool stuff Vader does in the comics and Woolie tries to do that but man I'm 10mins in and this is so hard to listen to
Dante was boring in DMC2 and depressed and cynical in the DMC anime. Therefore Dante will always be boring, cynical, and depressed, and DMC4 and DMC5 are just fanfics. After all, when Dmc came out, those games weren’t canon anymore, just like SMT nocturne featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series. Dante worked for Lucifer in that one. So Dante will always be the sort of person who’d sell his soul to the devil, and nothing after that can change that.
Tyler Gregoire his holistic approach to media is insanity. Like I don’t understand how he can enjoy like anything, ever with this logic
Yeah that would be the discussion to take if DMC2 and the anime were utterly pivotal points in the story that represented the change in Dante's character instead of a beat in the overall story that doesn't matter much
Dante is cynical and depressed. wacky woohoo is his way of hiding it. dmc2 happens right after he murders his brother in hell.
Hero Toxiko ok but that’s what Pat headcanons into existence to justify it. Because he likes DMC, so he makes excuses for it, where as he doesn’t like Star Wars, so he just goes hard on it and throws out explanations
@@brettbaumler754 star wars totally deserves it, blame lucas for all of that. it's even the reverse of the usual problem where unofficial things make it worse. the character was made to be a loser by the creator and other people tried to run it back by making cool things[the issue with the eu tbh]. then again i like maul because he's a total spaz who loses to padawans consistently across all media.
It's odd that the clip is only 55 minutes when the actual conversation lasted 17 hours.
Like a weak version of the tsukuyomi or something
Pat: KOTOR is fine and we don't need to worry about that, but that Vader comic is bad and doesn't count because SAND!
for the grainer good
i mean greater.
Yep
In this HOUR LONG CONVERSATION, one man dies on Bad Take Hill
Normal person: Frankly, I find it difficult myself to enjoy this comic knowing that the core main canon has ruined this character FOR ME, but I would love to hear you talk more about why you enjoyed this comic, Woolie.
Pat: Almost an hour long rant about why this side entry isn't real because main entry ruined a character.
i think you misunderstand pat, because he's saying the first one except for that last sentence. he isn't saying it's wrong for you to enjoy it, he's saying it wasn't "real", so he doesn't.
@@Yal_Rathol Fixed, I think.
@@Yal_Rathol He still ranted for an hour when Woolie wanted to share something he was enjoying
@@TheNovaGoose ok? and that alters what i said how?
@@Yal_Ratholapparently not at all
Pat's position here is such a target rich environment here. I'd just like to point out that any villain who isn't like a pure force of supernatural evil was a bratty child who probably cried, did something cringy, or wet their pants when they were 6. Do we need to see the ultimate-badass villain as a bratty child or rebellious teen? Probably not, but Star Wars is a generational saga where every background character has a wiki entry, so it's bound to show up eventually.
Though I must say ''''NOoooooo! You can't think darth vader is cool! Haven't you seen the Plinkett reviews? Star Wars isn't coool anymore! Nooooooooo" is peak Pat.
God forbid the biggest edgelord in the galaxy was a whiny little shit as a child.
The difference is that we don't SEE those villains being a bratty child. We can suspend our disbelief and never have to think about them as anything other than a vilain. That factor is gone with Vader because we have seen him do all of this embarassing stuff, and now he is nowhere near as imposing or intimidating.
@@TheAtlasReview Nah, he is still great. Besides, it was the fans that wanted to know more about his past... and like usual complained when they got what they asked for.
@@unversedhero6028 You can give a character an origin story without making them completely pathetic and laughably stupid.
The guy destroys the galaxy because he had a nightmare and acts like a bratty 5-year-old when he's like 21. The villain literally admits that he's evil and behind everything and he still let's himself get manipulated, then does a 100% character change in a split second to slaughtering children and strangling his pregnant wife. Prequels are dumb, man.
@@TheAtlasReview Every single character in existence was a crappy character before they became goo or didn't and stayed the same, that's pretty much why character development exists, to make them better and Anakin went from brat to evil badass.
It doesn't matter when you get to see the character development, the point is that you see it and The Clone Wars does a great job at developing Anakin and showing how he got to the point where he is in Star Wars episode 3.
If you want to ignore the character development or don't like it, then that's your problem, not the canons problem.
Every conversation these two have
Woolie:“But i like it and heres my extremely concise argument about why”
Pat:“But it sux tho”
It’s so annoying. Like he(Woolie) likes things you(Pat) don’t, he’s not trying to make you like them too, why are you making this into a fucking argument that never existed?
"I don't get it"
The problem, Woolie, is that you're expecting Pat to be a reasonable person with SOME sense of internal consistency and a logical reason as to why he thinks the way he does.
The problem is he isn't and he doesn't. Pat is a hypocrite, and his opinions and thoughts are often completely untenable with what he actually does. Stop trying to understand it Woolie, there's nothing to understand. Pat is just wrong, and he's blindly incapable to applying his own standards evenly or engaging in proper introspection
that whole "It doesn't count for dante" is mega hypocritical.
He is and does engage in proper introspection, it's just on a time delay of 4+ hours after all of us on the discord (mods included) chew him out for his dumb, poorly thought out opinions.
@@vyxxer Except that dante being "boring and sad" is actually good character development that pays off in 4.plus dante being like that isn't some egregious thing that would shit on a character or make them bad.
Everything else is just him being a hypocrite at certain points though.
@@GabeSweetMan If you act shitty and need to constantly be told you're being shitty by other people, then maybe you're just an asshole?
The most frustrating part is that there are times when he does seem to actually try to understand why people are getting mad at him, but within a few comments of the discussion being had, he seems to only reply to trolls and people acting like complete dumbasses, which to him reinforces that he's correct and that everyone else is just being piss babies.
Honestly the take of "Sometimes a character canonically does or says something so amazingly terrible/distracting that it is near impossible to think about the character without being reminded of the bad stuff, even when they are being super awesome" is perfectly valid.
Its just this sequel/prequel/flashback nonsense that Pat adds which is super dumb.
I certainly think it’s *possible* to make a storytelling decision with a character which cuts so thoroughly against what they previously signified to their audience in a visible enough way that no future retconning can really undo the damage.
I just think it takes something a little more destructive than “was whiny in a series of films that have been consensus rejected by the majority of the audience, pop culture at large, and to an extent the people in charge of continuing the narrative”.
I think that's downplaying it a little bit to say he was just whiny. I mean he went to the dark side by being very obviously tricked, and even when it was obvious that he was being had, he just kept going full throttle. It's hard to disconnect that when every supplemental material doesnt show that as a stupid thing to do, and instead tries to convince you he's a cool dude
@@Champiness "was whiny in a series of films that have been consensus rejected by the majority of the audience, pop culture at large, and to an extent the people in charge of continuing the narrative"
That's still in canon. It hasn't been rejected at all. There wouldn't be so much hate and meme against it if it was rejected. It's a bitter pill the everyone swallows as canon, hence the hate.
by that logic we shouldn't want a new Meteroid game
@@Dante45p that's a bit of a leap. A new metroid game could come out and be great, but The Baby will always be a thought in people's minds
16:06 Yes, Pat. It is EVERYONE ELSE that is crazy. You are the reasonable one here.
A not totally impossible situation, not here though
Woolie: "I read some Vader comics"
Pat:
Hey man, don't insult autistic people by comparing them to Pat.
Yeah a good amount of them can function in society
You mean "allistic screeching"
55:46 of Woolie trying to say "I enjoyed this thing" and Pat shouting "But sand though! You can't enjoy anything because SAND EXISTS!"
I think Pat is actually dead now and his Mind Goblins are just piloting his corpse.
Pat's goblins were in full force during this
They somehow became Uruk-hai.
Let's stop pretending that Pat has a goblin infestation and agree that Pat _is_ the goblin.
@@SuzakuX not only is Pat THE Goblin, he is also an extra asshole goblin.
more like Pat's up his own ass attitude that is so prevalent in his opinions these days was in full force during this
@@Chubbz969No they became Gundabad orcs.
In this video Pat fails to understand what character development and different takes are. More at 11.
I will not downvote Woolie’s content despite how much I disagree with Pat. Woolie should not be punished for another’s mind goblins.
Its no "mind goblins" its just pat being an asshole
How dare you. As a man with mind goblins myself I can say this is just Pat being a baby.
Wouldn't mind Pat sharing his opinions... if he wasn't so smug looking while he does it.
i think his default expression is smug. you can't fault the man for that.
does explain why he got into violent fights every couple of days from age 5 to age 18.
You can't excuse someone for being an ass just because they've been an ass for a long time.
@@cattibingo having your face be set at birth to default to "smug" is not your fault, nor does it make you an ass. my face defaults to "disinterested", doesn't mean i'm a misanthrope.
him playing into it is what makes him an ass.
“Stop making that face”
“This is my face.”
You know in hindsight.
It's kinda shocking Matt and Liam didn't leave *sooner* if this was what they were dealing with off-camera.
I like pat but danm yeah i can kinda see it sometimes. Atleast now we got the real star Woolie being even more prominent. I just love woolie with reggies and the others.
Managarn yeah for real. At first after the break up I gravitated towards Pats streams more, but lately I’ve enjoyed Woolies channel way more.
@@brettbaumler754 I watched everyone separately for a while but I stayed with Woolie alone not too long after.
Ah yes, Matt and Liam left because Pat **checks notes** has dumb opinions on fiction. Yep that must be the sole reason why.
Y'all need to chill a bit lol
@@IndoorSitup No, it's because he'll throw this long winded rant and never concede in an argument because he needs to win, even if his stance becomes nonsense. People like you always telling others to chill, why don't you tell Pat that? Literally only gets away with it because assholes like you also praise this stupid behavior while level headed people are somehow "wrong" for countering an insane man.
For the first time, I'm starting to understand Matt and Liam. Just slightly.
Not to say they are in any way perfect either cause boy do they have their flaws but if I had to deal with something like what happened in this video I would tap out so hard.
@@Killer_Rabbit23 Yeah that time with Liam and Mighty Number 9
Lucky Tiger what happened?
@@solrac4512 ruclips.net/video/PjFfvFL5HxA/видео.html
You should form your own opinion of it first
Pat's argument is like saying the original anime run of Full Metal Alchemist and what they did with their characters MUST be taken into consideration when discussing FMA:B/Manga characters despite it being made by two different creative minds.
Not really, the Star Wars movies are the source material for everything else in the franchise. FMA’s anime adaptations are sourced from the manga
Not at all? Star Wars have a singular canon even if it's switched around. Each FMA is a take/medium of the story, not a singular canon.
No matter how cool Vader is, in canon, he's a dumb children butcher.
The question isn't about what Vader is or was, it's how someone can apparently not have the ability to look at one part without the influence of another, like a normal person.
But Pat's anything but normal, so...
Nah, you and Pat don't understand. That was Anakin. But he's dead now, Darth Vader killed him. ;)
@@Kektus1 That's the point of canon, for narratives to have connection. If narratives and traits connecting between works have no bearing then people would be foolish for being mad at Luke's violent solution or Han's inability to change being out of character and thematically incongruous in the Disney trilogy.
Honestly I don't understand Pat's take at all here. Like yeah Anakin wasn't a good character in the movies, but so much time passes between prequels and the OT that he's not even the same person. Does character development not exist?
Yeah but we never get to see that development except with comic books. I agree that Pat was dismissive but the example of Darth vader being a bad character I end up agreeing with
@@cameronmills3599 most of that development is in the clone wars and is kinda the main point of the series, to bridge the gap between cringy teenage anakin and the kinda badass anakin from episode 3 and setting up vader
@@IShadowStrykerI oh I have no doubt that the clone wars is quality, and I dont mean to downplay your point but it's supplemental material while the movie is the main source
@@cameronmills3599 Okay now I to ask you to define supplemental considering it's not only the largest part of the canon (at least the movie and the new series are) but are important to understanding the plot of episode 3 considering greivous is one of the main antagonists and there is no backstory or introduction to his character, you were just supposed to remember him curb stomping shaggy and the other jedi and taking their lightsabers, the same goes for the fact that anakin skywalker went from that whiny teenager in aotc to the battle hardened jedi by fighting in a war and due to his constant battles with asajj ventress(both characters fates were changed when the mini-series became the series but their roles are basically the same because they are intrinsic to the story). I also have to ask where this false sense that the movies are somehow more canon than the cartoon that bridges them together and introduces/changes characters that are integral to the next movie, especially when the sequel trilogy is a narrative nightmare that most of the fanbase agrees messes up alot of the canon and in my opinion will soon probably be considered non-canon or at the very least go in the same space as the holiday special.
@@IShadowStrykerI You've clearly thought about this a lot and again I dont mean to downplay your point but Clone Wars is written by a completely different guy. I'm not saying Clone Wars isnt quality, but George Lucas didnt come up with any of that. It speaks a lot more that Dave Filoni was able to make that mess into something of quality, but you cant tell me that Clone Wars was always in the plans, it came out 10 years later.
Edit: my mistake it actually came out 6 years later, but my point still stands
Pat, let Woolie have fun. He lets you talk about league and powers through it like a champ.
League is actually kinda interesting to Woolie just b/c of the built in ELO rating **over** Grinding as well as the FEED meme. It's the whole MMORPG rng-to-Gearup-in_order_to_RAID-toGearUpAgain-to_RNG_HARDER-for_meeting-Stupid-GearScore-Check-to_hit_Final_RNGGrind -- Just to have the Level Cap and Gear cap RAISED AGAIN when the next "expansion" drops bullshit Skinner Box Nightmare that the entire genre has become --- THIS is what damages the Woolie
I'm not going to dislike this video, because this is Woolie's channel, and Woolie was not the crux of everyone's anger at this hour of the podcast.
Pat actively fanboys when he disregards his OWN VIEWS about how "characters can be ruined forever" just because the argument gets applied to characters he likes (Dante, Raiden, most Resident Evil protagonists). If you are going to have an opinion on how character potrayals should be, that opinion should at LEAST apply to every fictional character fairly.
Pat is trying to shit all over Woolie's enjoyment of Vader and Star Wars as a whole because he doesn't care about Star Wars. It's very aggravating because not only is that immature of a podcaster as far as keeping conversations lively, it's being a bad friend by not letting your friend just say "Yo this is cool."
I'm not saying I always agree with Woolie's views, but at least he has the patience to deal with Pat's [Crazy Talk], and more importantly, admit when he feels he makes a mistake. Pat doesn't, thats why this video has a lot of dislikes
You know what? You make me think that this was a stand battle between [Bring me to life] and [Crazy Talk] that any of them powers could win and just nullyfing thier abilities. Because Pat was in the believe that Vader sucks forever and ever, but Woolie was admiring the way Vader was doing right in the comics. So woolie keep his chill was his stand remind him that the joy he got from seeing cool and dumb shit. Whoever, Pat stand amplifies his hatred of no find enjoy for something he could care if it wasnt ruined for him. That would be more interesting that this segment of the podcast dragging on and on.
This was the first podcast where I screamed, SCREAMED, at my phone for Pat to just shut up.
This podcast should be renamed: Woolie sits calmly as ignorant man-baby gives opinion on something that he knows nothing about.
specifically this episode? because any time woolie mentions "the hybrid", this title becomes reversed.
Yal Rathol except it’s not. Woolie’s control preference is literally only for himself and he makes it aggressively clear he is not pushing it on anyone else or even recommending it. If he wants to play PC games with a lemon jacked into a battery then that’s his prerogative and there’s no argument to be had.
That’s different then antagonizing someone’s interest in something for no good reason like Pat does.
@@gummyboots except pat repeatedly states "i don't get it" and "i don't like this". he never says "you are wrong for liking it" like a bunch of people seem to be thinking he's saying.
and yeah, pat is generally more direct and antagonistic than woolie, it's why they have discussions and debates at all, because if pat doesn't antagonize woolie, this podcast would be "i like the thing", "i don't like the thing", "ok", "time for the news". that antagonism is an large aspect of pat's personality, and if you haven't noticed, it's there in woolie too. or did you forget him repeatedly encouraging racism, slurs and stating he would sell all of humanity out for a jetpack?
That's pretty much every episode
@@Yal_Rathol or that time he sand bagged Matt in that King Kong video
Prepare for almost 56 minutes of why Matt and Liam stopped being Pat's friend, and why Woolie only hangs around him once a week.
lol Liam was the asshole in that equation not Pat
Karan Harsh Wardhan Yeah I did learn he hit on Paige which is not on.
No, but go off
yknow i thought pats star wars takes were bad but he came in with that "fuck scar" and that shit is fucking unforgivable
Big props to you woolie for having that kind of patience. It's wierd how pat can talk about resident evil for hours.
Pat needs to chill. Not everyone cares how people view a character through different media
I’m glad everyone in the comments are almost unilaterally praising Woolie’s handling of Pats absolutely bonkers mind goblin attitude.
I think he really needs to explain to Pat that taking such a standoffish stance when it’s over something as minor as Woolie enjoying a comic book can make his enjoyment of it feel trivialised.
oh man, i was there live. This ain't gonna go down well :)
Woolie is trying to Jeet Kun Do His Star Wars experience while Pat is fine throwing the baby with the bath water.
Woolie: Hey There’s some cool stuff to look at!
Pat: But that one thing tho
Woolie: Yeah, but here’s some cool stuff!
Pat: But that *ONE THING* tho…
Pat puts way too much stock into what the official “canon” line is. Make your own head canon if the original sucks. I’ve been doing it for years with pretty much everything.
This is exactly imo what should be the best take on any story or franchise.
As a consumer, we should take the enjoyable interpretation or versions of things despite the OG Author’s writing of characters.
DBZ is a pretty good example where we got a better story simply cus editors helped Toriyama’s story. Much like the Star Wars editors as opposed to Lucus.
Pat’s argument is bad because it would means the editors work is essentially fanfiction as opposed to what OG authors intended. Not to mention, authors could still retcon the bad stuff so it never happens.
@@Jackboy019 Pat has previously stated that he basically does not create and only consumes; he is not creative enough to develop his own canon.
@@tank19768 pat is a bug man. I sometimes look at him and see what he is: a 30 something fatman who plays videogames for a living. He cannot create. He is a worm that shrieks for things to be how he wants. He will not change.
or if the thing sucks why try changing it at all.If you're going to do head canon just comp up with your own original stuff at that point. A good writer is wasted on Star Wars
Providence Cus there’s still cool stuff in fictional works like light sabers and telekinesis. People are invested in the cool parts, if something entirely sucks we wouldn’t have this conversation.
Pats that guy who just screams “IT’S NOT CANON”
Except he loves KOTOR which has never been canon.
rishnix I can see pay saying “it has its own canon” or something to that affect
@@rishnix it's like the new star wars game. it doesn't matter if it's canon it's good enough on its own with new characters. if the new game had vader everyone would take them way more seriously and shit on it
@@HarshNerf
You referring to Fallen Order? Cuz buddy I got news for you...
@@HarshNerfthat game with darth Vader in it?
People like Pat make me want to defend the prequels.
must be hard to be pat's friend
Why do you think Matt and Liam stopped being one?
I think there’s a reason most of his friends are online
Yeah, every day where I keep listening to the podcast it becomes more and more apparent why SBFP fell apart. If I was Matt or Liam I'd not been able to put up with this either. Woolz is a Saint.
i'm ngl, this like the worst convo i've heard you guys have lmao
nah the vomit talk is definetly worse
@@IndoorSitup that was gold
The tabletop one was more cringe for me ngl
Castle Super Beast Clips: Pat
Pat claiming Clone Wars is supplement when like 4 of its main characters are about to appear in Mando S2
which is more successful than the last 4 movies they’ve made is what instantly breaks this madman argument
It's also literally the only piece of expanded universe material that was allowed to keep canon status alongside the movies when Disney bought Lucasfilm. They were equivalent in canon to the films. All the cool shit that Anakin does in that show is just as valid as anything in Episode 1-3.
To be fair, in an argument about movie canon, the shows ARE supplemental. I can't make an argument about Anakin being a good character based off TCW. He's not that character in the prequel movies.
Dizzy Doom 1. There wasn’t even room for an argument about movies or canon because all Woolie was trying to do was talk about a book he read. 2. Movie canon isn’t a thing. That’s not something that exists. Especially when the main plot of episode 9 is only comprehensible with fortnite limited events and encyclopedias. 3. Clone Wars has more attention and respect than the movies at this point. Who gives a single fuck about the movies when all the “supplemental” material is better in every way. Clone wars has more eyes on it and a bigger say on what Star Wars is than any movie that isn’t a new hope at this point. A min of bad line read in a 20 year old movie can’t overshadow over 3,024 minutes of a television show and 1,100 pages of comics just because “but I didn’t wanna watch it cuz I’m a lil piss baby” the baseline of Pat’s argument reads like “I’m not gonna play DMC5 because I didn’t like Ninja Theory’s DmC
@@culturedpopcultureforall622 How does movie canon not exist when episodes 1-9 are an interconnected chain of movies that springboard off one another's narrative? That sounds a tad silly to say. Also, I don't care for the sequels, yeah, but I WANT to. It's what makes their decline so frustrating.
But yeah, I very much agree with you on Pat being unfair to Woolie and overshadowing his conversation with his negativity. It should be Woolie discussing what he likes about the Vader comics.
@@dizzydoom4230 by that logic episodes 2 and 3 are really only connected through the clone wars (originally the mini series then the full one) so the "movie canon" thing really falls apart
Here's another problem with Pat's argument.
"If a character sucked in the past the always sucked."
Darth Vader was cool in the past, 1977 to be exact.
I have trouble to not believe Pat does that intentionally. Sometimes he is so damn Pat that it's absurd.
Like Woolie genuinely wants to talk about this stuff and I love hearing people talking about what they like, that's why I listen to this podcast, but whenever there's someone who just can't make conversation and just listen and let the thing flow, it ruins it. It isn't hard just to listen to Woolie and comment here and there to make he expand his points, he has to drive it down to dirt like "How can you enjoy something I don't?". It's so pleasure killing, it's the mental cockblocking of conversations.
That's the problem. I don't care if you don't like and you explain why (which is the reason I watch Red Letter Media), but literally trying to pull something that FEELS (it isn't) like the person is stupid for enjoying, it's terrible. It's not first time Pat conversation feels like that too.
I still love him all these years I've been following, but holy shit man.
And I don't even care about Star Wars or anything, it's just how he is acting.
It kind of reaches the point of absurdity how many times toward the end Woolie is just stressing "I'm not trying to sell it, I just want to talk about what I like" and how long it took Pat to let that sink in and actually stop the argument part of his brain.
It's the same reason I, under my breath, just say "shut the fuck up" every time anything about Indivisible comes up and he feels the need to get the last word in, making a comment about how, a completely fine (not perfect by any means, but decent) game that wasn't to his taste, is bad and no one should play it. It comes off as incredibly petty for no reason other than self-gratification.
It does comes off petty! Once he was making tweet after tweet trying to be right about him acting the same way about other topic and people was mad at him, I tried to say it sounded he was doing on purpose, it was about "why people do art I see no reason just consume", and he was just rude about it and people barged in and started tweeting a lot at me.
Look, it's cool you explaining why you don't like and breaking it down, I believe the podcast audience is all onboard with this. However, when someone starts talking about why they like something, that is not THE MOMENT!
One example is saying you don't like someone at their funeral. Totally acceptable to talk about this, NOT AT THAT MOMENT.
Knowing that and being empathetic towards someone liking something would go a long way to avoid these annoying bits in the podcast.
@@crybirb don't censor me bro!
@@tarfielarchelone2674 what
Pat displays sociopath behaviors for an hour. Part 96.
Hypotheticals and character progression doesnt exist in Pats mind. No one ever did cringy shit when they were a teen and then grew out of it. Never. Pat is still the exact same person he was when he was a teenager, he hasnt matured at all. This is Pats world.
"he hasnt matured at all" this is true actually
I think the problem is that's an actual fact with Pat. It's becoming more and more apparent why Matt and Liam left
God, to be these people
"You like these comics. You're the only one. Be ashamed."
As an aside not related to the conversation, did anyone else get like 20+ ads in this video?! Jesus christ youtube, could you not do that? Could barely go 2 minutes without being interrupted.
I listen to the podcast on Spotify, but come here to RUclips to post comments. Highly recommended if you don't want 20+ ads.
I felt so bad for Woolie during this whole segment. And the fact that Pat was immediately tweeting as the disagreement was happening to find out if anyone else agrees with him (because in the past he's gone so far as to introduce an entire poll which will almost always be biased) felt real weird to me too
24:47 Woolie came so close to giving up, the fact that he even continued after this is commendable.
Ladies and gentlemen, the toxicity of the "FOREVER RUINED" mentality
Pat's says that u can't un-ruin a character but u can just look at Darth Maul in the prequels he had like 5 minutes of screen time but in the Clone War saga they made him awesome
Throughout this whole thing, I just want to ask Pat something.
Why do you care? For someone who just see Anakin as the horny obsessed Sand man, you keep seeming to just reel it back to that point.
Yes Anakin was a really stupid character, but if that's your only argument, then why do you keep making it? Especially for a person *that does not, and has never existed?* Characters can be rewritten any which way, fanfics in themselves are just that, fanfics. But hey, maybe one out of a few fanfics will make a character like Anakin or Darth Vader work, but nope... Sand Man. Fucking Sand.
why do you want this dumpster tier character to keep getting comics and games instead of something new?
@@HarshNerf I never once said that.
Woolie: I really liked the Vader comics I read.
Pat: CRAZY TALK REQUIEM BITES ZA DUSTO
Pat: WRRRRRRY!
ACT 5.
10 minutes were spent talking about the thing thats in the title, the other 38 were Pat talking over Woolie about how he’s stupid for liking a thing he doesn’t like.
What's so hard to grasp about a person's personality changing after they become half robot?
Pat is incapable of ever changing his viewpoints so he doesn't understand that anyone else can either.
Almost an hour of Pat not listening to Woolie and getting angry at what chat says.
Completely understandable, chat is often full of shit or just saying whatever to get a glance. Pats stream chats are excellent sources of this sort of thing, presumably woolies as well if I could ever see it on the clips
Woolie has the patience of a saint. Any lesser man would have just muted Pat five minutes in.
Woolie: So I'm reading a cool comic, I wanna talk about how it's cool.
Pat: MAN I CAN'T TALK ABOUT THAT AT ALL CAUSE MY STAR WARS BRAIN IS PERMANENTLY BROKEN.
Woolie: ...okay....so I'm reading a cool comic, I wanna talk about how it's cool.
(rinse, repeat)
(get to 25:00 where Woolie's trying to tell Pat he's being ridiculous and then explains the very thing I just posted but Pat interrupts him)
_>
Well that wasn't awkward at all.
I realize Pat's got his mind goblins and he chases shit, but read the freaking room for two seconds and comprehend where the conversation is being steered.
Like when Pat said, "Oh there's cool stuff in those comics" it felt (TO ME, not Woolie, so really what Woolie is feeling in that moment is what's important) like he's just deflating and letting Woolie do his thing because Pat finally got to make his point for freaking 30 minutes. But c'mon, if Vader is ruined for you, at the very least you can talk about the cool things or let Woolie do so and then tagline at the end the same thing everyone else has been saying, "It sucks Disney messed a lot of that up. it sucks George messed a lot of that up. But yeah, the lightsaber rifle is freaking amazing. put that in the movies next please." That's all Pat had to say while Woolie talked about it.
Here we have Pat's ultimate way of being a contrarian when it comes to Star Wars. Just quote everything redlettermedia says and take it as fact.
Lonequacker as much as I love Best of the Worst, I’ve noticed RLM fans are like some of the most annoying contrarians ever. They just parrot whatever RLM says till it’s beaten to death and thinking they’re unique and original for saying so
This is my problem with most internet opinions nowadays. Most people, and I apologize for generalizing, just take in opinions and regurgitate them as fact without adding ideas to the opinion.
At least Redlettermedia have intricate, critical, and humorous discussions without feeding to much into a angry rant. They're professional with their dark humor and offer insightful views even if I don't agree with them all the time.
"This character did something dumb one time and any new media isn't even worth consuming."
Also what gets me about Pat when talking about Vader as a teenager vs Vader as an adult is that they changed as people since the period of teenager and adult, and surprised he didn't figure out people change as time goes by, at least most people.
Pat's stance is that you can't dissasociate the shitty things from the good stuff in media. While many of us are able to do that, I for once do unserstand that point of view as seeing how all the pieces play out in something is important too. What happened here is that Pat doubled down without explaining his argument more clearly, so he can come of as incredibly antagonizing
Woolie will explain himself even when you dont want him to, Pat will never explain himself even if you desperately want him to.
This, many people can dissasosiate shitty things buy I think that because the topic is STAR WARS their fandom can be really toxic sometimes, Pat is just being Pat and nothing wrong with that, well maybe a little.
The double down definitely wasn't helped by him just not giving Woolie a moment to breathe and say his piece about a thing he liked.
thank you yamero cat
This entire segment when I was listening was me going "pat let people enjoy nice things, move on!"
On the flip side I sometimes genuinely try and dissuade people from getting into things that will disappoint them like Naruto or RE6 both of which still has defenders.
I agree with that, but I do think pat had distorted that mentality to the max, ever
Pat literally being that guy that goes to a friend saying "Hey that thing you're interested in, THAT thing you hold some enjoyment in atm, that's garbage you should stop wasting your time".
I got a friend like Pat. They always want to talk about their interests and get upset when I don't get into them, but the moment I start talking about my own they sandbag me and act like I'm wasting their time.
Hope you found a way to understand that person better over 4 years, and in some way they to you
Ok but the Darth Vader comics are cannon
So by Pat's own logic, should everyone that's annoyed by him here stop watching him forever?
Yes. That's exactly what Pat logic would dictate.
That's right.
Boy would his job dissapear in the heart of a momment.
Woolie: I like something in these comics
Pat: there’s no value to those comics so you’re wrong
Woolie's patience is much larger than I previous thought. I just hope he can still enjoy the comics without associating with this moment.
As far as I’m concerned, you can decide your own canon in a lot of things
"On this week's episode of "Pat. PAT. *PAT.* "
Calling 2008 Clone Wars "supplemental" is crazy, it was like the one thing that Disney kept canon alongside the films. And now CW's and Rebels stuff is know leaking into shows like The Mandolorian.
Im tapping out. Pats mental health has been steadily declining the past few years and hes just gotten so toxic.
Between the whole littering thing and now just treating woolie like shit i dont think i can seperate him from his work and look past how awful he is.