This is Your Brain on Fighting Games | Breaking Free From the Flowchart
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- Опубликовано: 15 апр 2021
- streamed Apr. 14, 2021
Talking general strategy and what players will be thinking about at the higher levels of fighting game play.
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My flowchart consists of bandit bringer and then another bandit bringer to cover my bandit bringer
but the wild throw tho
The forbidden infinite
5k into full gatling into bandit bringer is my calling
Then for the mixup you delay the bandit bringer
I dolphin and then dolphin and then sometimes to mix things up I dolphin
and this is why some of us say the execution isn't the hard part in the long run.
Yeh but for players to get there they must not only get their execution down, they must get it down comfortably. You can't really adjust your play like this if you don't havea good chunk of your options down on muscle memory so you don't have to commit a lot of focus to it.
This part of fgs is very hard, but its also very fun, and execution is the second main hurdle before it imo. (After knowledge ofc)
It is possibly even a reason why some players find the genre interesting and why they wanna get into it. Yes I know most ppl like big comboes but stuff like this is why I wanted to get in, I'm not there yet but there are vague, baby-version snippets of it sometimes and I love that. I'm guessing there are others like me, ofc probably a smaller number but hey.
Execution is also a 'hard part in the long run'. This idea that execution is something separate needs to be killed. Thinking you know what to do doesn't make you skilled. Doing it does.
@@Scuddi It really isn't. If you learn how to do a quarter circle in one game consistently in SF you can do it in GG. This is exactly what Sajam was talking about in this video ruclips.net/video/lRiz0WzSpr0/видео.html . The real skill in fighting games isn't just doing a move. It's noticing your opponent is adapting to your plays and adjusting for it (like Sajam does in the above video).
@@absoul112 Doing a quartercircle is not the hard part about execution lol. 1-frame links, electrics, taunt jet upper, people drop that shit even at the pro level.
@@electricant55 My point was about new players not someone trying to be a pro. For most players, unless they’re trying to be the best in their region or more they won’t need to learn that (aside from specific characters that require it).
talking to myself or in my head loudly about everything the opponent is doing sorta helps me recognize things mid match
I do that too, but mostly to recognize and call out mistakes that I’ve made as they happen. It’s the kind of self assessment I would do while watching a replay, but in real time.
I’ll talk to myself mid-game out of habit when in discord with friends and get clapped because of it lmao
I like to say "watch this" before a wake-up DP and it works about half the time
still working on the technique
@@Shamii The mindgame is do that like two-four times times and then wakeup with something dumb like a standing overhead
I do something similar where I commentate out loud what I’m doing, how they respond to what I’m doing, and what they are doing regardless of my actions, in order to try to see what mistakes I’m doing or what I can get away with
My flowchart has only three questions,
“Can I do inputs consistently today?”
“Do I know my character’s combos?”
“Are they a Big Band Main?”
Does it have to answer "yes" to everything for a confirm or only the third question has to be "yes" for a confirm?
Important to note that he switched up and broke his flow chart between rounds instead of mid game. Thinking about why you lost is what keeps us moving forward, great video.
That's what beginners call MIX
What’s cool abt this vid is that I have no idea what 2S, 5H or any of that means (SFV Player), yet can still understand what Sajam is saying theoretically and apply it to the game I’m playing.
Wait, like you don't know notation, or just don't know what those moves look like in this game?
The notations. Do they apply to all fighting games?
@@CallMeKap_ Yes it is, Almost All Fighting Games apply it but some of them also have their own notation. Like SF they usually use Cr or xx
Anyway 2 mean crouching
5 mean neutral
You see it more in anime games, but it's a generic notation that can be applied to all fighting games! It follows the layout of numbers in a keyboard, that's why 2 is down and 5 is neutral. So by that logic, 6 would be forward, 3 is down forward, etc
Got it thanks yall. But what about the letters? S for strong? H for heavy?
God fighting games are great
That instant-block feature is brilliant. I really like how the game give you a way to punish predictable players.
This is exactly why I love playing Xiaoyu in Tekken. The ability to adapt to anything with enough creativity is what makes learning the technical parts of fighting games fun.
Feng is a similar situation, lots of moves with different properties for different situations, plus stances for added variability if you're willing to learn to use them
sure if you wanna call doing more AOP adapting
Oh damn, is this the first haircut since covid?
His hair was looking pretty cool imo, i would keep it long.
fantastic video thanks for giving me a different perspective on this, think it will help overcome some of my tekken struggles.
The thrill of fighting games is that the colder sense of strategy of say, chess, yields to a sense of the PANTING PHYSICAL. It´s cool what you describe; a huge part of the game is just not letting your opponent get comfortable, to switch and switch it up, doing nothing systematically.
When you realize what someone’s flow chart is exactly and how to deal with it, you’ve already won. And that’s why I love tekken mid ranks.
This is the shit that blows my mind. Never in a million years would I have recognized that anyone was consciously rotating their pressure in this way, and this definitely doesn’t feel like something that I’m capable of doing so quickly (I would’ve gotten IB’d a few more times lol)
Time to do some research and get to practicing
Analyzing patterns mid-match is so impressive to me. I feel like realizing what just happened in an exchange is very tough. Like, when I'm being pressured, it's hard to recognize what the opponent is doing, it's just a blur of attacks and resets that blend together until I'm safe due to pushback/long recovery attack (or until I decide to jump or push a button).
Thanks for the 2S into WT tip by the way
Also that combo at the end looked sick, wtf
Delay based netcode makes me autopilot way more because doing muscle memory inputs keeps your APM high and it feels more like offline play. The more lag, the more delay you have on your reaction inputs which makes the movement feel sluggish.
Got to mix it up, in this game it's all about how you can mix up your offensive strings and find ways to continue pressure and break their defense. Pretty basic to talk about but hard to master. Good video though, you explained it very nicely.
Sajam is a good player. I know that changing your options is important, but being able to do it mid-battle is something that I've been trying to constantly improve
This assumes you know what you're doing. :D
Much like contortionism, fighting games are all about flexibility and being a little creepy
AP course stuff, good shit. People need to hear it.
As someone who only enjoys FGs as an observer, this is still very interesting.
Definitely. I know I've see a lot of footage where someone will block for a bit and then just get hit, seemingly at random with no high/low/left/right mixup, and I'll always wonder why. This will help me think about that hit in context of previous interactions.
The 2p mixup instantly made my pressure a thousand times more effective tbh
brilliant thumbnail
People feeling intimidated by this example... When the take away is rather simple: think about what you do and why, when you don't, you lose
Thumbing this video up in the hope I can understand it someday
Hair looks great.
5:05 actually this works on standing hit on everyone and on crouching hit against some chars
You can't flowchart your offense if you don't have any - taps my head -
This is something I'm only recently starting to work on. I realized that in a best of 3 I always get the first one easy, struggle in the second and lose from comeback, and get my ass handed over to me in the third one. I guess all that's left is learning how to AA and block mixups and I should be able to finally get past my endless wall, lol.
Watch your replays. I'm assuming your ability to 'play your game' is a pretty linear one until you are forced out of it. After that your approach to your opponent becomes more obvious and your opponent answers that all while they get to play their game and you don't. So identify what your gameplan usually is (from your victories) and then from your defeats, analyze what situations you lose in. Imma assume your defense is pringles and you probably lose to the same stuff you pressure your opponent with.
Just saved this video to watch later woop woop training mode after work lol i always forget basic strategy when i pic new people
Rose is coming i gotta ready for Neutral Jump vs jump foward opponent and if i dont jump do i have a diagonally upward attatck or special and i gotta get a strat for foward movement lol i be spending to much time in combos now a days cause of laggy netplay
GREAT VID SAJAM can we get diagrams like your thumbnail
Where can I find the full video of the clip that plays when someone subs, "into level 3!"?
What notation is Sajam using when he says things such as "5S" and "2H"? What is that notation called so I can look it up? Thank you.
when i do this, my opponents are playing with oven mits on and throwing their controller in the air.
Nice content, RUclips man
For me I actually have kind of the opposite problem, I'm all instinct and can't really focus on playing optimally. My brain very much tunnel visions on mind games and if I can't get a read on my opponent I usually lose.
The gorilla awakens his remaining brain cells to, dare I say, learn
I always chicken block and jump when cornered unless I have a dp. Other than that I panic lol
I don't understand how you all are having problems understanding the implications of this. Sure its not easy to implement midmatch lots of the time but you all make it look more complex than it is
Lot's of people just don't play Sol
Despite having little time with the character, I got the idea pretty quickly, because I already know his buttons and tools
If Sajam went on a character per character basis, more people would understand from the get go
@@Sorrelhas yeah I think that’s probably the correct assumption
So i just do run up wild throw, yes?
The mind games
Doing those little adjustments is not easy, it is actually pretty hard doing concious sets of preasure, at leasts to me, to slightly change my offense, is like learning a whole combo or blockstring again and cannot do it in a real match until have practice long enough for each of the variations, so if there 5 to 6 different approches then is like learning 6 different blockstrings patterns, to me learning just 1 takes me like 15 to 3X minutes then learning 6 different patterns will take me over 3 hours sit on training mode, and those strings should not contain any complicated movement one after the other, like jump install, instant dash, tiger knee shouryuken, option selecting some moves all in a row, since just to do the combo once will take me over 1 or 2 hours, after that doing it consistenly will take weeks practicing 2 hours every day to learn it, how is this easy?
'how is this easy?'
First off when you learn a whole combo 'route', there is a structural basis where it may not be so linear. So you change things a bit and test via training mode to see if those changes still lead to something favorable.
Also this pressure and string offense you won't learn overnight. Your muscle memory has to adapt as well and internalize your actions so you aren't even questioning yourself about the structure of the combo route. So if you are still asking yourself and rationalizing how much more difficult all this is by trying to learn/recognize things by minute/hour then you aren't ready for that next step yet. But keep at it.
@@t4d0W My question was how is this easy? it has a (I think) clear implication. Sajam mentioned it was easy but I would say it is actually hard, don't lie to people.
Can you make a video on how to deal with this pressure on defense 👀
I'm not Sajam, but I can tell you that it's the same, except the other way around. At first, you just try to beat what someone is doing on offense. If they don't change it up after you found the answer, you've won the match. If they do change it up, you look for the answer to what they did to change it up. Eventually, after playing the gamefor a while, you'll learn what that character's pressure is and how you can respond to it and that's what we call matchup knowledge.
In the end, a huge part of fighting games is finding habits and other exploitable weaknesses to get the advantage. This is how you do that, by simply responding to what's in front of you and looking for reliable answers.
Can you identify the structure of pressure your flow chart goes? Then you have the basis to defend against your OWN flowchart. Also sometimes changing up the flow chart is just taking that same structure and doing simple things. Maybe another move in the toolkit to mask something different or vary strings up. Watch out for frame traps as well but my favorite is staggering pressure. If your flowchart involves a good button as reliable poke that forces a response or open stuff as a confirm, vary up the timing of how you press that.
Thats not flow chart, thats mix ups
im too small brain and mentally unstable for these damn games man
Don’t beat yourself up about it man, you can always improve.
@@Scragg- it’s too hard to improve when i’m constantly holding myself back by fighting myself
@@icylives1493 don’t know what you mean, but maybe try some breathing techniques to get out of your own head, that’s what i started doing about a year ago and it works well
@@icylives1493 Well that is how it starts. It is all baby steps up until we internalize what we learn through various repetitions and you can react with a response just by looking at things on screen.
Cool video but I was too distracted by Short Hair Sajam to absorb any of it
good job though
or sorry that happened
No dislikes for a reason
I don't get it
And that kids is what we call "the neutral game"
Ungabunga-man tries to use hindsight to look smart
Jk good shit jiyuna, big fan
4:09 what the shit is this
80% of people i've played flowchart all the time, its making me stop playing because they all play the same way. When people say all SFV players play the same way i agree 80% do and once in a while i find someone who doesnt and i enjoy it.
While I agree with the point, I think the examples are extremely intimidating. I've been playing fighting games for years and I've never been able to think this far ahead mid match. I'm not sure who this advice is suitable for.
I've been playing for only 3 years and this is something I already was using in my offense
The description does mention it being "at higher levels of play," so this is probably targeted towards midlevel or above, not pure beginners. Having said that I will mention that tactics like this can seem a lot more involved/scary than they actually are if you don't know the character or the game. So if you don't play sol and know his tools, all the potential choices he's making during blockstrings can seem like a lot. When it's a character you know well and you recognize all their buttons/attacks, it becomes much more digestible.
Thinking ahead and thinking intentionally about how you're going to mix things up is probably just another skill you practice and develop mid match. It's not much different than practicing a combo in training mode. Set the CPU to Random Block, and change up your pressure every time you do a block string instead of whichever one you're most comfortable doing. Do it with friends in endless lobbies. The more you think about it and practice it in matches, the more natural it becomes.
This is probably something you also subconsciously do in a match without realizing it. "Oh he stopped me from jumping 5 times, I guess I'll dash" is the same idea. This example seems way more complex, but each change is really small overall.
Certainly helpful to me. I can generally recognize what’s not working if Im paying attention and not asleep at the wheel. That’s the thing though, you have to be thinking about what ur doing.
This video, to me, is a reminder to vary ur options and that the best answer (flowchart) isn’t always the right answer. This is the best part of fighting games, playing the mind games, adapting, changing around your options, etc.
tl;dr:
HAVING AN INTERACTIVE MATCH WHERE UR TRYING TO OUTSMART EACHOTHER.
I don’t think I could really call this “intimidating” advice.
Man lets just admit these games are hard as hell to play.
I think i gonna give up. Its simple to hard for me
It's like real time chess and Starcraft combined, in 4D.
@@igorhirochi4072 Nah I believe in you. This kind of video is there to give you an idea of what you can do, not what you have to be doing at this second. If you have ever thought, "Wow he blocks all of my wakeup supers, I should stop doing that" then you're already doing what I did in the video.
@@igorhirochi4072 my man, you have the embodiment of willpower as ur PFP. You can do it. Anyone can. Chin up king, go do cool things in fighting games
@@igorhirochi4072 If your heart is not in it to begin with, then it is harder making progress.
Yeah.....you need to have a lot of fighting game experience to even understand what is going on. Most of the time i just spammed buttons. And as fun as it was, it was short lived. It's not that fighting games are are hard, it's just getting to a good level to enjoy them is a horrible experience
Bruh I had fun with how a little "no entry" graphic came up every time I blocked an attack in Skullgirls.