I am newer to watches, but have been so turned off because of the investment side of it. To each their own, but it's certainly not for me, and it makes me strongly dislike the "investment" watch brands.
It is a shame because it was not like this in the past. It is of course important to note that not all of this is the fault of the brands, but they are not victims here either and customer service has taken a hit. The quest to acquire doesn’t have to be easy, but lack of transparency is not a good recipe in the long run.
@@TeddyBaldassarre Agreed completely. It's not 100% the brands fault. To draw a parallel to my focus, it's not Blue Microphones fault that people misuse the Yeti or Shure's fault that people buy the SM7b without understanding it. Regardless of that it still reflects poorly on the brand and taints the reputation because it is perceived in a negative light now. Just like a misused microphone, watch brands that are discussed as investments are frequently presented in such an off putting way that it's hard to look at them without associating those brands with that type of behavior.
Love the parallel to the audio world! The consumers that use your products are unpaid spokespeople for the brands in a way. Both the good and bad. Thanks for watching, my friend!
I am new to watches myself, want one Rolex OP and that would be enough for me for my Formal wear as I work in a Bank, but I guess getting one at retail is impossible in this lifetime 😀 , better go for Aqua Terra is what I have decided now
I personally love watches and am a huge fan of the art and craftsmanship. I believe that the reason people (including myself) care so much about appreciating value and making it an investment is because watches generally come with a pretty steep price tag and people like to think that they aren’t making a stupid financial decision when they buy a time piece that they like
I think people should consider the investment aspect purely in terms of the return they get from use of the watch, rather than what they can re-sell it for. The same way you’d expect more use from a more expensive but more well made axe. If it stays sharp longer, cuts wood quicker and doesn’t need replacing for a far greater period…the extra expense proved a good investment by way of return of service…not whether you could sell the axe for a profit in however many years.
@@d734-wy8kxif your axe is made by hand from scratch by some god of axes in Japan, pretty sure its value only goes up from there. Supply and demand equilibrium is the key to consider
Agree with everything you mentioned in this video. This is why the new generation of watch lovers love you. Well, I do! I love your outlook within this industry & the overall mentality you have when it comes to this engineering masterpieces we all appreciate & love! Great work Teddy! One of the best in the game!👍🏽 keep it up
I remember back in 2009-10 people were dumping "assets" like vintage cars, watches, art, etc. to get by in areas like LA/OC. I know I did when I sold a Breitling Nav for 50% less than what I paid for. Market has been in gradual decline and will only continue as people move cash into inflation proof assets... which watches typically dont fall into. Buyers market coming in the next year or 2.
Well said. I've been a collector for over 12 years and has over 10 luxury watch brands in my current collection. I'm both happy and frustrated at the same time with the recent price surge. Yes, the value of my collection went up, but it's almost impossible to get watches that I like unless paying for ridiculous amount on the grey market. Sometimes I rather have the prices drop back down (which will lead weed out speculators) so people who enjoy watches can finally acquire them.
As an AD for several brands, including Tudor, I’m sick of having people, usually young lads coming in and asking “what’s the best watch to buy that would make me money?” I don’t want to sell it to them, because I’d rather have them wear and enjoy it rather than keep it in a box hoping for a 3% return. I even tell them that it’s something to put on their wrist rather than their bank balance
If you wanna be successful, you most take responsibility for your emotions, not place the blame on others. In addition to make you feel more guilty about your faults, pointing the finger at others will only serve to increase your sense of personal accountability. There's always a risk in every investment, yet people still invest and succeed. You must look outward if you wanna be successful in life.
The first step to successful investing is figuring out your goals and risk tolerance either on your own or with the help of a financial professional but is very advisable you make use of a professional like I did. If you get the facts about saving and investing and follow through with an intelligent plan, you should be able to gain financial security over the years and enjoy the benefits of managing your money.
Please I need someone to help me trade or invest the forex or crypto market because I'm tired of trading in losses myself. I've blown my account twice and it's frustrating.
Wow I know Mrs Naomi and I have also been trading with her, She's such an amazing woman with good skills and keeps me happy all week knowing I earn 15thousand extra income weely trading with her.
One of the main reasons I use this channel as my guiding light to watches is the love you give all watches. You have macro shots of Orients and Pateks, Seikos and APs. You give them the same spotlight, and are honest about where each fit in a collection. Keep up the amazing work!
In my humble opinion, the biggest issue is that there are way too much money in the economy when every country is printing them to pay off their debt. When athletes are earning tens of millions every year or every fight. NFT are selling tens of million of dollars and Bitcoin used to be like twenty cents. These watches just become another form of speculative piece. Watches should be bought because you like then and worn to be enjoyed. But on the token it feels bloody good that it’s also appreciating in value
I am relatively new to purchasing luxury watches. I don't consider myself a collector because my goal isn't to have a collection; however, in my passion for owning different watches I have certainly ended up with a much higher number of them than other people I know. I buy watches for one reason, with one additional requirement - which I don't consider a "reason", but more of a safeguard. I buy watches because I like them and I want to wear them (which is based on aesthetics, craftsmanship, engineering, artistry, etc; however, I also like a watch with a good story behind it). I do not buy them with the intention to flip, or with the intention of making money. The requirement is that I try to purchase ones that will retain a reasonable percentage of their value over a long period of time. I think of it like a car. I'm going to buy a Honda not only because it is reliable, but because I can sell it for more than a used GM if and when I need or want to sell it. If I ever lose my job and need to pay the mortgage, it is nice to know that my $5000 watch may still be work $3-4k instead of $500.
Based on what he explained about the specifications of the watch I don't know for sure but if I had to place a bet for what watch it is I would put all my money on the Eric Clapton's Rolex Reference 6263, the “Oyster Albino” Cosmograph Daytona.
l get that a lot but with smart work and discipline, I have created multiple streams of income for myself from real estate and from blockchain mining network,that makes it so easy for me to afford these little
I almost bought a stainless AP 15400 for $90K, with an MSRP around $25K ... but instead I bought a VC Overseas 4500V gold form the boutique at MSRP $54.5K by just waiting a year ... well guess what, 2 years later, the Stainless RO went down by 60% and my VC went up by almost 70% and sells for $89-95K now ... and all I had to do was buy the watch I actually wanted, and not the over hyped "investment" watch.
Well said, I'm getting sick of watching other watch RUclipsrs say stuff like "oh I could have bought this watch at X....and now it's worth Y".....I tuned in to learn about the watch, not how much you potentially lost 🤷♂️
Great video, for me this is the best watch channel on RUclips. Your recent microbrands video with Kevin O'Leary was the best watch video I've seen in over a year, and has seriously got me wanting to part with some cash.
I think that something similar happened in the wine Industry several years ago . At some point, everyone was only talking about the Pilar’s of winemaking, the Grand Crus, the most expensive, so the conversation became boring. For me, the best part is finding great producers doing great wines that sell for a reasonable price. Finding value gives me the opportunity to enjoy wines more often and start interesting conversations. I am convinced that the same goes for watches. Finding one that suits your interest and budget is as enjoyable as buying it.
I'm in my 20's and I've always seen an expensive watch as something you buy and hold onto for many years, if not the rest of your life. I see them as something to hold onto not something to flip when the time is right.
Here's my truth. Being a collector, enthusiast and investor aren't mutually exclusive. My philosophy on "Toys", i.e luxuries like watches, cars & motorcycles has always been "You have all the toys you like, as long as they are appreciating assets." I have been enjoying watches since I was a young teen in the late 70's, beginning with a Rolex GMT master which I saved for. I haven't always been correct. I've lost money on pieces by Cartier, Franck Muller etc. I always loved Patek's too, but they rarely appreciated unless they were ultra rare minute repeaters and the like. I've generally stuck with Rolex because it never disappoints and I've gotten to be a steward to most of the classics. Sea Dweller, Day Date, Sub and Zenith Daytona. I've never had more than 4-5 watches at a time, but it's a hobby that has funded itself. A Rolex doesn't pander to trend. It isn't a costume. It's a uniform. It never disappoint aesthetically or financially and is ever classic. My 2 cents.
I'm super new to the world of watches so an expert opinion is much appreciated. I'd rather not buy fake watches and I would very much like to know if what I'm buying is going to increase or decrease in value. That said I would still buy watches that may decrease in value because I personally like them but the knowledge of it's value is good to have.
I went through a similar experience as a comic book collector when I was a kid in the 90s. When you stop thinking about your collection as being personally valuable and start thinking of it in terms of how other people value it, you're no longer a collector or a hobbyist. You're an entrepreneur. Being an entrepreneur doesn't make you a bad person, but approaching a sub-culture purely as a capitalist where others are hobbyists causes serious friction. Let's hope most of these speculators lose their shirts on NFT scams over the next year or two so the watch collecting world can get some of its old spirit back.
"When you stop thinking about your collection as being personally valuable and start thinking of it in terms of how other people value it" That's a very good thing to point out. And you can even see people asking, why are you collecting this and that, is going to get you a profit?
I am new to watchworld not because I invested but to get something which has craft, history and heritage to pass it on to my Son. I started diving deep into Rolex to get my Datejust and the wait time I got was 2.5+ years. The prices are super hyped up and to my understanding it's not worth it to pay Markup on watches until you have that kind of money,.. Watches have been misinterpreted by stocks and many buyers are completely unaware of what they are getting (just to look rich, for investment and what not). I bought my first Tudor watch on MSRP, I think its us (we all) who have created this hype. If we stop just asking for the same watches we see in Music videos, Influencers flexing in therir videos , this can largely affect this monoply of Manufacturer slowing down productions, online overpriced watches and collectors holding sought pieces.
I got into watches for the horology, the simple interest in time keeping, the craftsmanship of the movements from the simple to the high horology. I'm utterly fascinated in watches and their appreciating value or money making factors don't even register to me. I also find it pretty sad that people will happily over pay for items, to lock in a box in the hope of cashing in later. I treated myself to a Speedmaster, I wear it all the time, the pleasure of ownership comes from it being on my wrist, not from any money it may or may not be worth later.
My take: I don't like the idea of watches as an investment for the same reason I don't like the idea behind NFTs. It throws the art away in the name of profit, where everything is just a way for earning, earning, and earning again.
I think as a bit of fun speculating on a watch you like is a safe-ish bit of fun. Unfortunately unless you can get a Rolex for example from an AD and then flip it for the 25-50% inflation some folk are asking, then the moment or opportunity has gone. I wouldn't buy a watch at an inflated price and then hope it continues to rise in value. Im not in the $100k area at all but could afford maybe up to $10k, its about personal acceptable budgets. The real hobby to me is learning more and finding what you really like, Pelagos vs Sub for example. Keep up the great content, Thanks!
True. I get my watches as a sentimental value. Got my first Swiss watch, Tissot when I graduated high school and I recently bought a Longines HydroConquest as an accomplishment getting my dream internship. More on the way as I climb up the ladder.
I have been a watch enthisiast for over forty years since childhood and this current trend for me is one of the worst things to happen to the watch industry. It brings a totally different type of consumer ( I refuse to call these people watch enthusiasts as they are just sharks looking for a quick buck) to this and it is not a good direction to be heading in. And seeing Rolex´s answer to this problem which is to up prices rather than increase supply or make it hard for the secondary market to sell these watches is frankly shocking and shortsighted. I have owned three Rolex watches in the past and am now totally turned off the brand not only for the sort of investment sharks who buy them but Rolex´s response to the problem. Same as well for Patek or AP. Both brands I used to admire and now, well I simply am not interested in owning a watch that comes from a company that likes the hype and the sort of people buying the watches. So for me as a core base enthusiast so many of these brands now have little or no appeal to me any more. Same as my first high end love and my first higher end watch, Omega. The continual "limited" editions and continual harping on about their connection with space, its all got rather boring. I jumped off the merry go round 6 years agon and bought a Grand Seiko . Your content is refreshing as its not all about the hype or profit, you cover exotic and real world which is so unlike so many other channels. Also, unlike so many other watch channels here you are not a walking buffed up ego! On a completely seperate note I wonder would you consider doing a video on the dark side of high end watches which as we are seeing countless Russian Oligarchs assets being siezed or frozen would be a very timely topic. I have often wondered about the high end and who many of its customers are. So many, especially now at the hyper inflated prices are from backgrounds that leave a great deal to be desired ethically. It is something Rolex, AP, Patek and other high end brands always steer clear of talking about for obvious reasons and I know the old tiried excuse that a brand is not responsible for its customers actions comes in but as a purchaser, especially in this day and age I am not keen on wearing a brand who will have unethical people supporting it and getting special considerations because they have the money ( Patek´s one-off customs come to mind!)
People never seem to talk about the fact that even brands like Cartier have run into situations with so much overstock, unsold inventory that Richmont pulled back and destroyed 500 million euros worth of watches in 2018 to protect their selling price, rather than flood the market. Right now we're seeing a massive transfer of inventory from the AD to the Grey Market, and at some point, all those watches need to be sold. We'll see how long the prices rise, i wouldn't bet that this keeps going more than another year or two.
I’m really getting turned off at the minute by certain shouty RUclipsrs bragging about their travelling and private jets and watch boasting, the same ones who complain about Chrono prices not being real, yet go to their sites and lo and behold, they’re advertising those same watches for a premium. It’s good that people like Teddy still do informative content and not the crap they churn out. They know who they are…
Excellent video Teddy. Buy the watches you enjoy, not to resell them for a profit. You make money in the financial markets. Rolex, PP, FPJ, AP are not part of thd investment portfolio of Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger.
I don't mind people buying them for investment or resale, as long as every watch enthusiast is able to walk in a boutique and purchase or order the watch within a reasonable timeframe.
If your investing in watches, you got to buy the high end pieces or limited production runs. If you collect watches you buy what you like. The low end and mid tier watches just do not hold their values.
I have been collecting watches for 30 years and the current market situation is just plain stupid. In the 30 years I have been collecting I have never bought a single watch, be it a Rolex, Omega, etc. expecting monetary gain . I collect because I love watches and that is how it should be.
Because of the hype of certain brands in watches, I've been more drawn to brands like Nomos, Glasshutte, and Zenith since it seems like ppl that recognize those watches seem to really enjoy the craftsmanship in watches.
I've got more colleagues asking me about my green Submariner 116610LV these days, some also managed to deduce that my watch stand in the office is to charge the battery 🤣. Being one of the only watch enthusiast in my office, I get more questions about watch investments and ROI more than actually about the watches or end users nowadays.... it used to be along the lines of "what should I buy for my fiancee?" just a year ago
I'm not new to owning watches, but the current market is quite disappointing. I've reached a point in my life for a milestone watch and I was looking at a Rolex. Not being able to preorder and configure the exact DJ I want is crazy. I was offered a Rolex recently from an AD, but I don't want to "settle" for a watch because that's what's available. It's my hard earned money and I'm not in it to play these AD "games". So I've decided to move on to Omega and Breitling, because I love a few of their models and I can at least obtain them.
Been collecting watches and the trading ..... is not something I am into watches for. For those who do it, don't blame you if you can make ridiculous money. I for one have abandoned Rolex due to the Corruption of AD's. There are so many other great brands that a watch collector can purchase. To each his/her own!
My beef with hype watches is that they cause people to neglect (Thankfully, for now!) other models in the same sphere or even within the same brand. I am particularly amazed that someone will spend $130K for a basic 5711 on secondary markets. People rarely think about this, but the same money buys you two Patek Calatravas (one in platinum and one yellow gold), A Bulgari Octo Finissimo (steel with the blue dial please!), A Blancpain Villeret Complete Calendar, the most ridiculous Grande Seiko diver of your choice, a Rolex GMT (even at inflated grey market prices), and a trunk-style Louis Vuitton watch box to hold them all (about $7k!). Whats more, after all of that, you would have enough money left over to go ahead and and buy your spouse a Cartier Tank (or two, one gold and one steel) just for fun. Even in the "one watch relative to one watch" comparison, that someone buys a secondary market 5711 rather than a white gold Zeitwerk Date or a Platinum Datograph is just astounding to me. In either case, you would have change left over by the way. At the lower end of the scale, generally speaking, who pays the price people are paying for Rolex sports watches when a company like Moser exists? It is, to be frank, insanity to me.
It's all about the money. There's plenty of Daytona, AP etc for sale on the second market. If used watches were selling below retail there would be plenty available at the AD.
@@hlee2 the reason why you don’t get the watches at AD is because ADs prefer to sell the watches to their preferred clients, which are the gray market dealers.
What I don't understand is... there is CLEARLY huge pent up demand for Nautilus, Royal Oak and Richard Mille-style bold, chunky design. That is what's cool, and desirable. So why do all the mid-tier brands (Tissot, Hamilton, all the thousands of others), who have zero scruples about copying, just keep releasing the same old tired, dainty, old man, me-too garbage designs? Just give people what they want!
0:17 I understand the context, but still cringe at the sight of Rolex shown on even par with Patek and AP. The world is a crazy place. Edit: Watching the entire post, interesting topic with a thoughtful take and eloquently described observations. Personal opinion, as a watch enthusiast, I’m indifferent to watches as an investment. I buy what I like and can afford and would assume most watch enthusiasts share that approach. It’s no more than a hobby and a “luxury” that we can participate on any level, regardless the real or perceived value of our collection.
Thank you, Teddy. You are definitely correct. I really believe that like anything else ….. what goes up, must come down. We will definitely see the watch market Capp off eventually and possibly turn down. I love to collect watches. I do not look at it as an investment to trade watches for gains. If one would like to invest, then follow Warren Buffett and park your investment in the S&P 500 and never look back.
I have truly enjoyed your channel and objectivity which you frequently share. My query is in some of your discussion points with Kevin O'Leary, outside of the dial appearance, does he not also raise the prospect of a particular watch as an investment? Does this not help perpetuate the thought of getting into watches as investment?
I don't see it as a problem except some of those are desirable and unattainable. People always assign inflating value to things from baseball cards to paintings, cars, watches, etc. I guess we can find some solace in having a truer appreciation for the craft and artistry down here in the real world.
Thank you so much for making this video Teddy. I'm 37 years old. My whole life I dreamed of owning a brand new, entry level Rolex. Now that I can finally afford one at retail, "flipping culture" has over inflated the price so much I can no longer buy one. As a result, I have now discovered other great brands like Sinn and Longines. If Rolex would have allowed me to buy at retail, I never would have discovered those brands. Now, as a result of Rolex becoming over inflated, my view of the brand has become poisoned to where I only see it as an over hyped brand, as opposed to the high quality brand with a rich history that I should view it as. Hopefully industry professionals see this video.
I am right there with you at 39 years old. I have been wearing a watch since 2nd grade and have always had an eye for Rolex and Omega growing up due to movies of the 90's and 00's. If it weren't for Teddy's videos, I too wouldn't know anything about other brands that have just as high of quality, possibly higher, and I have shifted my brand focus entirely. While I would love to acquire a Rolex Platona with the chocolate subs, I would be just as happy with a Longines, Omega or even good looking Tissot. I have never been about status, but rather functionality and what makes me happy. In today's world, I feel you not have an acceptance culture by wearing the top three on your wrist as some type of passage into success and status.
You can still get one at retail. Just have to have patience and visit your AD a few times. The problem is people want a watch now. Go enjoy your Longines and live life and you’ll ge the call some day
I love watches because I think they're works of art. I've never bought one as an investment and never will. Id never buy something I think is ugly just because it'll make money
As long as there is not a significant recession, I can see the state of the market only getting worse for an indefinite period of time. The world NEEDS Rolex, AP and PP right now and will pay whatever is required to obtain them, as the perception is that the money spent is safe and the watch will only appreciate. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy as more and more people buy in on this premise, driving prices ever higher. MSRP is no longer relevant as ADs are getting better at ensuring customers spend at least the secondary market cost of their chosen watch in jewellery/unprofitable watches before they are allowed to purchase, effectively meaning the watches cost far more than MSRP right out of the gate. I can honestly see Rolex Submariners selling for £50k+ and Daytonas for £150k+ in the not too distant future. Compared to high end cars even those prices are positively reasonable.
I think the manufacturers have a large role in reinforcing this toxic culture by allowing for percieved scarcity. I started my watch journey back in university, after having been gifted a speedmaster, I then looked to what I could appreciate and realistically achieve then, the skx et al. Since then I've built my collection and have been fortunate enough to acquire some now 'desirable' pieces. However, as life progresses and I reach more milestones and want to celebrate with a watch, I'm finding that the watches that I had been coveting are now ridiculously overpriced. What it means for the true enthusiast is that brands like rolex, AP, vacheron and patek are essentially off the table. Why in the world would I pay 4x more for something with the same horological heritage, finishing and functionality just becase it has a different logo on it, much rather get a nice JLC, blanc pain, GS, omega, ML etc etc.
There will always be people interested in watches as investments. The numbers are greater now with a lot more affluence (from stock market valuations, cryptocurrencies, etc.). There's feedback loop as certain watches become harder to get, promoted extensively in the media (e.g. rap artists incorporating them into their raps) and social media (rich people flexing those same watches) that feeds into one of the pillars of luxury (i.e. hard to get). There are also long time watch collectors that make it a principle to only buy watches that are highly likely to appreciate so that they can flip for another higher end watch, like building and burnishing their stock portfolio. They have been in the game longer. I am of the opinion that a lot of the watch media are putting too much attention and spotlight on these "investment" watches and on sensationalistic watches with sky high price tags. It's bait to drive up clicks to their websites, videos, etc. There's a lot more watch brands out there that manufacture very good watches that are often ignored. Then there are those where too much attention is paid to only a single watch line when these brands have other watch lines that are just as good, if not better. Part of the blame can be put onto those watch brands for their poor marketing effort but also part of the blame can be put onto the watch media who don't take the trouble to educate/show their audience other watches that are worthwhile to consider. Then there's those who consider themselves watch enthusiasts but only seem to post/discuss the same few brands and watches (i.e. the usual suspects of Rolex (everything), AP Royal Oak, Patek Philippe Nautilus, Omega Speedmaster, Omega Seamaster, Tudor Black Bay, and recently, Grand Seiko but that is due to Grand Seiko releasing something every week or other week) that it gets tiring to read and generally not helpful. In this area, I try to do my part to bring in other watches into the discussion. For example, the recent video on luxury chronographs - I mentioned the Breguet Type XX1 3817 in my post. That's an aviation-style chronograph watch with lineage to heritage (and not just the haute horology aspect), rare mechanical (i.e. central chronograph minutes hand), updated modern calibre with silicon balance and silicon pallets, open caseback to show the high quality finishing, plus a 100m water resistance.
I feel like watch enthusiast consider watches as a thing with heritage, class history and a object to pass it on to their kids not as a investment like a stock.
To some extent everyone is swayed by the value of the watch but by what extent. It's hard to draw the line of where it will harm the watch industry and the beauty of the fine watch making profession. It's always about striking the right balance. Conversely, if there is no value associated with the watch, it's hard to feed the professionals who are doing this fine job of promoting the essence of high horology. People collect the watches also to feel that the value has gone up since they have spotted a gem but whether they cash in on it is another matter. But to say you want to get rid of the increasing in value of the watch is ridiculous since it needs that even to the hobbyist or collector. And yes people definitely also consider the resell values of the watches otherwise there would be a surge of people buying Cartier, Chopard, GP, Seiko, Panaerai, etc.
If you're broke... Seiko/Citizen... Got a decent Job? Oris, Oris, Oris... Maybe Sinn or Nomos... Upper middle Professional 5k+ Now you can look at the usual suspects... Omega, Tag Heuer, Tudor etc etc Loaded? Breitling, Grand Seiko, Cartier etc... Now you're looking at luxury... Actually Rich... Well forget about Rolex, unless you're dumb or lucky, forget about a nautilus and srs why bother w a Royal Oak? Maybe look at Lange? IWC? JLC? I dunno, so much cool stuff to choose, Rolex is completely overpriced now... Not worth it...
When I was watching the episode of Succession when Greg bought a watch from Kendall’s watch guy I was wondering what steel Rolex is going for $40k in the secondary market? Now I know.
I think you're wrong. In the last two years here's what the value of my watches have done (based on eBay sold prices I've observed). Smith's Everest 1950's - Paid £200, now sell for £800 + Smith's PRS29a - Paid £400 - now sell for over £500 IF they come up at all. Seiko SGF (a humble quartz daydate homage) paid £180, saw one sell for £400 after they were discontinued and people are now asking upto £700. Vintage Vostok - paid £38, now the same watch sells for over £80 regularly. Timex Marlin vintage - Paid £30 same watches now sell for £70-£80 regularly. I could go on...I think you're so obsessed with the high end of the market, you've lost touch with what's going on at the true entry level to the market. There are tons of watches in all price brackets which are doubling in value and are very investable.
So for example, you don’t think Hulk will go to $50000 in 20 years? I think certain watches have proven to go up in value as a longterm investment. I like to think watches as holding value against inflation as a longterm investment. 1968-70 Pepsi used to be $120 back when it first came out in 1968-1970. 50 years has passed and now it’s way more than $120.
The idea of a watch as an “investment” just isn’t for me. I’m waiting for a Daytona because I’ve always wanted one (my grandpa had a white zenith powered one from the mid 90s until he passed in 2003). There are far better investments, even the original Royal Oak 5402 (which is one of the best examples of “investment” long term) which sold for 3k and gets listed for $150-$300k vs the S&P500 where $3k investment puts you at nearly $550k over the same period. The s&p is a conservative and low risk investment too, you can greatly outperform it with a little bit of work.For me a watch is something to enjoy, if I decide to sell it in 30yrs and it is worth more, great. If not, I’ve gotten decades out of it, it doesn’t owe me much. The only way these are real investments imo is the short term inflation of the secondary prices. To me that is a “hustle” like flipping sneakers or something.
For me, it’s the love of the craft and what they represent. For now. I’m grabbing a fifty fathoms. Level of movement finishing is unreal, especially for what dealers will discount them to
As someone in a third world country, even spending $200 on a watch is an INSANE amount. A watch worth $1000 is multiple salaries. This is why I will only every buy watches that appreciate in value. Purely because you could buy a house for that much. so it would be incredibly irresponsible to buy something that depreciates for that much money
Premium manufactures constraining supply is similar to mature public companies buying-back stock to boost value. If they can create that level of buzz, more power to them. Just let the buyer beware the contrived nature and risk to supply-side sand-bagging factory output level. Rolex letting Tudor largely replace them in that historic market segment is fine if they can pull it off. Tudor is making cool stuff a reasonable luxury prices. Again. more power to them.
Terrible idea if you buy Rolex for this reason. The buying a cheap Rolex is over. You're buying in at overpaying territory. You have zero margin for error when you overpay. Rolex buyers seem unaware that the supply has been deliberately witheld to create the current artificial shortage. Rolex make a million watches a year. AP in contrast make 40K Royal Oaks. You can't compare the two brands. And we already had one recent crash in high end watches where even vintage Swiss watches had very soft sales at auction. Mass produced watches took a bath just like new mass produced Porsches. The issue is that the more cash you tie up in a watch or car the harder it's going to crash if the production numbers are high. How mamy millions or Rolex are out there? These numbers cannot justify the prices for watches with unremarkable movements. The truly limited watches will be much harder to replace after a financial crash.
I absolutely love nice watches. But, no pun intended, if you’re looking for an ROI, timing is everything. Right now crypto and Bitcoin is going crazy and looks to continue moving forward. A lot of this market behavior with watches was due to new riche from crypto investors looking to put their money into something. This will happen again. Any time one market pumps, money will be made and spent and people like nice things. The watch makes the man and can be a status symbol. To crypto investors, status means a lot. It shows that they’re a successful trader and they want people to see that. I think it’s a good time to consider watches as an investment opportunity. And even if you don’t sell, this is something to pass down to your children and grandchildren.
Nice video however let me try to interject some economics to your positions. 1. 80% of all U.S. Dollars that are current present have been printed since March of 2020. If you think of pure money inflation it trickles down to everything including watches. This in turn increases the stock values, home values etc and as such people want to put their excess capital into fungible investments like art, watches, cars, real estate. So what is happening in the watch market is totally natural. 2. If a pandemic cant reduce demand for luxury products, then do you seriously think that an ordinary recession will? A recession will cause the FED to reduced the rates and print more $$ causing prices to rise. The only thing that destroy the watch market is a global nuclear war and if that happens, watches are useless.
The forced scarcity of luxury watches, skyrocketing prices in the second hand market, and inevitable investment bubble it has created, projects a negative message to the average consumer, and is therefore bad IMO for the industry as a whole. The watch industry survived the advent of digital devices, because Swatch companies like marketed them as attainable and functionable accessories, amongst a newer generations of wearers who are increasingly preferring to consume less. If the average consumer begins to associate watches with "the thing that people with more money than sense throw piles of cash at," the industry will transform into a niche market of uber expensive luxury watches, and a declining market of cheaply made fashion watch knock-offs.
Teddy, what a breath of fresh air balanced by some sound common-sense. Your channel and content is way ahead of the pack. The current market is absolutely ridiculous (especially for the blinged over-priced models). I've had a couple of older more classic Rolex's (16700 GMT and a 14060M Sub). I sold the GMT to buy the Sub and sold the Sub to buy a Paramotor (of all things). I never for one minute considered them as investments; I bought them, wore them, abused them and moved on. Of course looking back I would be pushed to buy my original watch back which does make me a bit sad, but watch collecting, like life, is a journey. Now I have a lovely old Omega Speedy Broadarrow, SINN U50, Vertex M100 and a CWC. I would love to get another Rolex, but am put off by those who wear them as status symbols. That said, there are so many amazing watches out there that I will eventually get something a bit more understated when the time and price are right - like Jaeger-LeCoultre Memovox Deep Sea or a IWC Spitfire Mark XVIII Fliegeruhr perhaps, but a Polar dial Explorer II would also tick the box. So many nice watches, but not enough time or money ... Keep up the excellent work!
I don’t have a problem with some investment watches but the market is sending a misconception to the general public that watches are great investments. Only a few watches are. This current condition has given me a hard time to aquire a few watches I have always wanted. I think watches are artisanal products, a combo of art, history and style. Able to maintain monetary value is great but the current market has gone far beyond crazy. I don’t want a economic downturn but a recession may be the only way to correct the watch market.
Investing in watches is not a bad thing. It creates entreprenual behaviour. What is bad is that it demoralises the minority of the people out there who wants to buy a watch that he or she really loves, without the brand consciousness. For example, if the brand isn't a rolex or omega, i'm not buying it type of mentality.
Watches aren't traditional investments because most watches are cheap pieces of shite. Haute-horology is something else entirely and has infinitely more in common with fine art collecting than traditional investing. People would do well to remember that.
Personally, the idea of spending over $300 for a watch always seemed rather ridiculous to me. It is only recently that I started taking an interest in luxury watches, and that interest came from looking at these watches as long-term investments. I think most -- if not all -- watches that are $10K or over, will at the very least hold most of their value, and in many cases appreciate in value. When you look at it that way, you're not actually "throwing away" $10K or $50K or $500K on a luxury watch, but rather putting your wealth into an asset that you can enjoy rather than putting it into a bank account. Although I personally would never spend over a few hundred dollars on a watch that I wouldn't be convinced will hold its value, and I still see these expensive watches as investment watches, I'm also starting to see the beauty in them as well and taking a genuine interest in them. Seeing the tremendous time, resources, and ingenuity that goes into making these watches, and seeing how rare some of them are, I can understand why people take a strong interest in them.
The negative aspect of investment watches shouldn't be too impactful a point for most watch enthusiasts. There really are only the three brands that are just massively in demand and super hard to get at a good price now because of their increasing value, which is a tiny portion of the entire watch market. There are so many brands, so many watches to get enthusiastic about. I love a good rolex, no doubt about it, but if I can just give up the "status" a rolex might offer, I can find just as beautiful and well made a watch from another brand at many different price points. The beautiful shots of a Breitling, Longines, Zenith, all just hammer that point home for me. We're spoiled for choice.
I enjoyed the presentation but not sure I see this as going away any time soon. Sure, the market might be at an high; but to think that you will ever be able to grab a used sub at a flee market is silly. I can’t think of another example of an “asset class” in the past few hundred years that ever stopped becoming an investment vehicle once it was perceived as one (maybe tulip bulbs). Sure they cool down but once they cross that line, they stay there. And don’t think that your friendly non investment grade brands aren’t KILLING themselves to get there…..
It just becomes one huge circlejerk. Like you said, everyone is flexing and hyping the same few watches until it becomes just annoying. Personally i love the daytona and royal oak but honestly any watch that bears even some resemblance to them everyone just keeps saying its a copy and its so unoriginal. So i decided to stick with watches that i like and i can afford and in my opinion everyone should do that, leave the hustling and flexing to others. Also, Richard Mille lol....
I'm always right in the middle with everything, but I just wanted to say... it's hard to pick a side because i feel like the ever increasing demand for gourmet fuckin watches is ultimately the industry selling it's own poison. I personally don't wear watches, OR invest in them, but i've always thought they were awesome and i guess all i'm saying is that if you don't want tons of people interested in your industry, don't make SUPER AWESOME SHIT
Love the content! This is happening across the board just look at the sport card sector. Card companies are releasing same card set but printed with 1rst edition on them (looking at you Topps). It’s an artificial hype created by the companies and perpetuated by the few loud ones on social media that push the idea. It only serves to water down real collecting and enjoyment of the collector. Now your looked down on because you wear a Tissot (which I wear) and not the hyped 4! I think true enthusiast love looking at all watches; ones in it for money will not give you the time of day for less than $15k.
I do agree and respect to most of your presented points on your highlighted subject and it's issues, Teddy. Do correct me when I am wrong that you too are aware with most issues actually stemmed from multiple profiteering interests via multiple opportunistic exploitations for multiple financial opportunities and securities causes. All interests involved are creators, contributors and influencers in constant market conditioning that's merely beyond its intended luxury segment scope in consumer market into traded valuables as physical valuable shares in an open stock market. The irony about all these is that this isn't exactly new development or evolution since other luxury segments were in similiar conditions that predated the luxury watch market growth such the likes of Hermes, Gucci and Louis Vuitton. The only difference between these two markets are it's public impact scale ratios that we have ourselves to thank for it, whether we would wanted it or liked it or for otherwise reasons. It's unlikely that this situation would change anytime soon regardless of the ongoing generational market evolutions due to interests.
I think this watch investment phase is going to be something similar to the Quarz crisis. It's rather an assumption that just came to me and I haven't dig deep enough, but I'm convinced that this trend will cause some serious damage to the industry.
I absolutely hate where most of the watch market is going right now. Id love to just go into a boutique and buy a watch. When I started getting into watches (about 7 years ago) you could go into a store and buy the watch you want. Sure you had to wait for very specific models, but it was overall a very straightforward and enjoyable experience. Nowadays you can't get any Steel Rolex, Patek, or AP in a store. You have to search for them and often have to make deals with people that don't feel very professional. And you always have to wonder if you can afford to wait another 2-3 months. Most Rolex are now worth about 20% more than of September last year. Price Jumps like this make searching for a watch feel more stressful than enjoyable
Isn’t getting this boring that all RUclips watch guys always say don’t regard watches as an investment but keep on posting content about watches as investment and are always talking about the same stuff
I can’t speak for other channels but I try my best not to cover just the hyped models that increase in value. It does suck to cover a watch and then at the end have to always mention secondary market prices. I believe last year there were only two individual model reviews from Rolex because of this idea. I thought this video was a good idea because people only seem to talk about the good with this subject.
love your take on this teddy :D. my view is as same as yours, I really am sad that famous family run AD's are also now catering the investment buyers and not the watch enthusiast who's been with them for years and will continue to be. I think they don't realise that if/when the market quiets down they will only be left with true watch enthusiasts. and as you say at that point even the true enthusiast may have turned away.
I think the truly biggest flex is buying at retail those watches that have the lowest market value, because it signals that you have so much money that depreciation doesn’t affect you.
there watches like Jacob n co insane mechanics (to me looks very complex) price is in the 100,000 and up but investment wise they dont hold the value and the price wont go up
Teddy when do you sleep!? So much content, such high quality. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessments - these "holy grail" brands are unattainable for the average buyer and I would guess are alienating many perspective buyers in the process. I only purchase what I want to wear, enjoy and use. Keep up the great work!
Well said Teddy thank you for fair and true evaluation. I love a nice watch, but it's personal only if I meet someone who also likes a good watch do I get into it. We don't need to make watches about "mine is worth more than yours".
Respectfully disagree, Teddy. What got me into watch investing was a Forbes article that laid out how luxury watches have outperformed both the stock market and real estate, on average. That's right, on average. But, none of this has anything to do with watch collecting, which I also enjoy. The more attainable brands and models are insulated from the boom in the investment watch world. They are still just as attainable. Whether an Explorer sells for 10,000, or 18,000, that Seiko is going to be the same price. So, in short, my advice would be to someone who simply enjoys collecting, stay in your lane. You are right, more interest in watches generally leads to more attainable watches. I say, enjoy it, and either ignore the investors, or become one of them! For my part, I enjoyed both aspects immensely.
Thanks Teddy for another great video. I’m curious about your opinion on the current situation in Eastern Europe. Do you think this instability/insecurity might reduce the current hype?
I am not economist, but one thing I was taught about the economy is that it can be a game of morale as it is anything else. When stability and confidence in the market is solid, the market usually responds favorably. That said, we had a crazy last two years of instability with COVID and the watch segment remained strong probably as a byproduct of people finding enjoyment in things rather than experiences as we were locked in, high stimulus packages, and a shift in retail operations among brands that solely operate through brick and mortar. This all considered, if things escalate in Europe that could create different challenges and I think a dramatic downturn in the market could come. That said, I hope peace prevails and it doesn’t escalate further.
I am newer to watches, but have been so turned off because of the investment side of it. To each their own, but it's certainly not for me, and it makes me strongly dislike the "investment" watch brands.
Also thank you for the great video as always Teddy!
It is a shame because it was not like this in the past. It is of course important to note that not all of this is the fault of the brands, but they are not victims here either and customer service has taken a hit. The quest to acquire doesn’t have to be easy, but lack of transparency is not a good recipe in the long run.
@@TeddyBaldassarre Agreed completely. It's not 100% the brands fault. To draw a parallel to my focus, it's not Blue Microphones fault that people misuse the Yeti or Shure's fault that people buy the SM7b without understanding it. Regardless of that it still reflects poorly on the brand and taints the reputation because it is perceived in a negative light now. Just like a misused microphone, watch brands that are discussed as investments are frequently presented in such an off putting way that it's hard to look at them without associating those brands with that type of behavior.
Love the parallel to the audio world! The consumers that use your products are unpaid spokespeople for the brands in a way. Both the good and bad. Thanks for watching, my friend!
I am new to watches myself, want one Rolex OP and that would be enough for me for my Formal wear as I work in a Bank, but I guess getting one at retail is impossible in this lifetime 😀 , better go for Aqua Terra is what I have decided now
I personally love watches and am a huge fan of the art and craftsmanship. I believe that the reason people (including myself) care so much about appreciating value and making it an investment is because watches generally come with a pretty steep price tag and people like to think that they aren’t making a stupid financial decision when they buy a time piece that they like
I think people should consider the investment aspect purely in terms of the return they get from use of the watch, rather than what they can re-sell it for.
The same way you’d expect more use from a more expensive but more well made axe. If it stays sharp longer, cuts wood quicker and doesn’t need replacing for a far greater period…the extra expense proved a good investment by way of return of service…not whether you could sell the axe for a profit in however many years.
@@d734-wy8kxif your axe is made by hand from scratch by some god of axes in Japan, pretty sure its value only goes up from there. Supply and demand equilibrium is the key to consider
RUclips needed someone like Teddy, who not only is passionate about watched, but also shares his insight and experience with others, great contents 👍🏼
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed.
@@TeddyBaldassarre thank you...
Very true
Agree with everything you mentioned in this video. This is why the new generation of watch lovers love you. Well, I do! I love your outlook within this industry & the overall mentality you have when it comes to this engineering masterpieces we all appreciate & love! Great work Teddy! One of the best in the game!👍🏽 keep it up
Thank you my friend! AI was my favorite player growing up! See that profile!
@@TeddyBaldassarre 💪🏽 I Love it!! Great taste in watches, even better in Basketball!! Take care!🤙🏽
I remember back in 2009-10 people were dumping "assets" like vintage cars, watches, art, etc. to get by in areas like LA/OC. I know I did when I sold a Breitling Nav for 50% less than what I paid for. Market has been in gradual decline and will only continue as people move cash into inflation proof assets... which watches typically dont fall into. Buyers market coming in the next year or 2.
Well said. I've been a collector for over 12 years and has over 10 luxury watch brands in my current collection. I'm both happy and frustrated at the same time with the recent price surge. Yes, the value of my collection went up, but it's almost impossible to get watches that I like unless paying for ridiculous amount on the grey market. Sometimes I rather have the prices drop back down (which will lead weed out speculators) so people who enjoy watches can finally acquire them.
What’s the best Starter watch ?
the only things you want to stay cheap are food😁
As an AD for several brands, including Tudor, I’m sick of having people, usually young lads coming in and asking “what’s the best watch to buy that would make me money?”
I don’t want to sell it to them, because I’d rather have them wear and enjoy it rather than keep it in a box hoping for a 3% return. I even tell them that it’s something to put on their wrist rather than their bank balance
Well done, Andy. Thank you for showing some decency in this crazy market.
If you wanna be successful, you most take responsibility for your emotions, not place the blame on others. In addition to make you feel more guilty about your faults, pointing the finger at others will only serve to increase your sense of personal accountability. There's always a risk in every investment, yet people still invest and succeed. You must look outward if you wanna be successful in life.
The first step to successful investing is figuring out your goals and risk tolerance either on your own or with the help of a financial professional but is very advisable you make use of a professional like I did. If you get the facts about saving and investing and follow through with an intelligent plan, you should be able to gain financial security over the years and enjoy the benefits of managing your money.
Please I need someone to help me trade or invest the forex or crypto market because I'm tired of trading in losses myself. I've blown my account twice and it's frustrating.
I'm a living testimony of expert Naomi, she has been trading for me for months now
Wow I know Mrs Naomi and I have also been trading with her, She's such an amazing woman with good skills and keeps me happy all week knowing I earn 15thousand extra income weely trading with her.
@@charlotteamelia7289 Do you happen to know her contact info and /or willing to pass on her info? I'd really appreciate it.
One of the main reasons I use this channel as my guiding light to watches is the love you give all watches. You have macro shots of Orients and Pateks, Seikos and APs. You give them the same spotlight, and are honest about where each fit in a collection. Keep up the amazing work!
I was able to obtain a 41mm OP black dial within a month with my AD, I feel so blessed. Such a beautiful watch
This guy is producing quality content daily and consistently!!!!! Kudos to you and team
In my humble opinion, the biggest issue is that there are way too much money in the economy when every country is printing them to pay off their debt. When athletes are earning tens of millions every year or every fight. NFT are selling tens of million of dollars and Bitcoin used to be like twenty cents. These watches just become another form of speculative piece. Watches should be bought because you like then and worn to be enjoyed. But on the token it feels bloody good that it’s also appreciating in value
I am relatively new to purchasing luxury watches. I don't consider myself a collector because my goal isn't to have a collection; however, in my passion for owning different watches I have certainly ended up with a much higher number of them than other people I know.
I buy watches for one reason, with one additional requirement - which I don't consider a "reason", but more of a safeguard. I buy watches because I like them and I want to wear them (which is based on aesthetics, craftsmanship, engineering, artistry, etc; however, I also like a watch with a good story behind it). I do not buy them with the intention to flip, or with the intention of making money. The requirement is that I try to purchase ones that will retain a reasonable percentage of their value over a long period of time.
I think of it like a car. I'm going to buy a Honda not only because it is reliable, but because I can sell it for more than a used GM if and when I need or want to sell it.
If I ever lose my job and need to pay the mortgage, it is nice to know that my $5000 watch may still be work $3-4k instead of $500.
Based on what he explained about the specifications of the watch I don't know for sure but if I had to place a bet for what watch it is I would put all my money on the Eric Clapton's Rolex Reference 6263, the “Oyster Albino” Cosmograph Daytona.
If you had the money, you'd definitely buy it because It looks really nice
Exactly
well I usually don't get too excited about other expensive watches. However, l could buy this for my Sons
@@isabellawatson2864 From your statement “ you don't get too excited about other expensive watches...” I’m guessing you’re a big spender
l get that a lot but with smart work and discipline, I have created multiple streams of income for myself from real estate and from blockchain mining network,that makes it so easy for me to afford these little
I almost bought a stainless AP 15400 for $90K, with an MSRP around $25K ... but instead I bought a VC Overseas 4500V gold form the boutique at MSRP $54.5K by just waiting a year ... well guess what, 2 years later, the Stainless RO went down by 60% and my VC went up by almost 70% and sells for $89-95K now ... and all I had to do was buy the watch I actually wanted, and not the over hyped "investment" watch.
Well said, I'm getting sick of watching other watch RUclipsrs say stuff like "oh I could have bought this watch at X....and now it's worth Y".....I tuned in to learn about the watch, not how much you potentially lost 🤷♂️
Great video, for me this is the best watch channel on RUclips. Your recent microbrands video with Kevin O'Leary was the best watch video I've seen in over a year, and has seriously got me wanting to part with some cash.
I think that something similar happened in the wine Industry several years ago . At some point, everyone was only talking about the Pilar’s of winemaking, the Grand Crus, the most expensive, so the conversation became boring. For me, the best part is finding great producers doing great wines that sell for a reasonable price. Finding value gives me the opportunity to enjoy wines more often and start interesting conversations. I am convinced that the same goes for watches. Finding one that suits your interest and budget is as enjoyable as buying it.
I'm in my 20's and I've always seen an expensive watch as something you buy and hold onto for many years, if not the rest of your life. I see them as something to hold onto not something to flip when the time is right.
Here's my truth. Being a collector, enthusiast and investor aren't mutually exclusive. My philosophy on "Toys", i.e luxuries like watches, cars & motorcycles has always been "You have all the toys you like, as long as they are appreciating assets." I have been enjoying watches since I was a young teen in the late 70's, beginning with a Rolex GMT master which I saved for. I haven't always been correct. I've lost money on pieces by Cartier, Franck Muller etc. I always loved Patek's too, but they rarely appreciated unless they were ultra rare minute repeaters and the like. I've generally stuck with Rolex because it never disappoints and I've gotten to be a steward to most of the classics. Sea Dweller, Day Date, Sub and Zenith Daytona. I've never had more than 4-5 watches at a time, but it's a hobby that has funded itself. A Rolex doesn't pander to trend. It isn't a costume. It's a uniform. It never disappoint aesthetically or financially and is ever classic. My 2 cents.
I'm super new to the world of watches so an expert opinion is much appreciated. I'd rather not buy fake watches and I would very much like to know if what I'm buying is going to increase or decrease in value. That said I would still buy watches that may decrease in value because I personally like them but the knowledge of it's value is good to have.
I went through a similar experience as a comic book collector when I was a kid in the 90s. When you stop thinking about your collection as being personally valuable and start thinking of it in terms of how other people value it, you're no longer a collector or a hobbyist. You're an entrepreneur. Being an entrepreneur doesn't make you a bad person, but approaching a sub-culture purely as a capitalist where others are hobbyists causes serious friction.
Let's hope most of these speculators lose their shirts on NFT scams over the next year or two so the watch collecting world can get some of its old spirit back.
Same thing happened with baseball cards in the early 90’s. The industry was ruined because of greed
"When you stop thinking about your collection as being personally valuable and start thinking of it in terms of how other people value it"
That's a very good thing to point out.
And you can even see people asking, why are you collecting this and that, is going to get you a profit?
I am new to watchworld not because I invested but to get something which has craft, history and heritage to pass it on to my Son. I started diving deep into Rolex to get my Datejust and the wait time I got was 2.5+ years. The prices are super hyped up and to my understanding it's not worth it to pay Markup on watches until you have that kind of money,.. Watches have been misinterpreted by stocks and many buyers are completely unaware of what they are getting (just to look rich, for investment and what not). I bought my first Tudor watch on MSRP, I think its us (we all) who have created this hype. If we stop just asking for the same watches we see in Music videos, Influencers flexing in therir videos , this can largely affect this monoply of Manufacturer slowing down productions, online overpriced watches and collectors holding sought pieces.
I got into watches for the horology, the simple interest in time keeping, the craftsmanship of the movements from the simple to the high horology. I'm utterly fascinated in watches and their appreciating value or money making factors don't even register to me. I also find it pretty sad that people will happily over pay for items, to lock in a box in the hope of cashing in later.
I treated myself to a Speedmaster, I wear it all the time, the pleasure of ownership comes from it being on my wrist, not from any money it may or may not be worth later.
My take: I don't like the idea of watches as an investment for the same reason I don't like the idea behind NFTs. It throws the art away in the name of profit, where everything is just a way for earning, earning, and earning again.
I think as a bit of fun speculating on a watch you like is a safe-ish bit of fun. Unfortunately unless you can get a Rolex for example from an AD and then flip it for the 25-50% inflation some folk are asking, then the moment or opportunity has gone. I wouldn't buy a watch at an inflated price and then hope it continues to rise in value. Im not in the $100k area at all but could afford maybe up to $10k, its about personal acceptable budgets. The real hobby to me is learning more and finding what you really like, Pelagos vs Sub for example. Keep up the great content, Thanks!
True. I get my watches as a sentimental value. Got my first Swiss watch, Tissot when I graduated high school and I recently bought a Longines HydroConquest as an accomplishment getting my dream internship. More on the way as I climb up the ladder.
I have been a watch enthisiast for over forty years since childhood and this current trend for me is one of the worst things to happen to the watch industry. It brings a totally different type of consumer ( I refuse to call these people watch enthusiasts as they are just sharks looking for a quick buck) to this and it is not a good direction to be heading in.
And seeing Rolex´s answer to this problem which is to up prices rather than increase supply or make it hard for the secondary market to sell these watches is frankly shocking and shortsighted.
I have owned three Rolex watches in the past and am now totally turned off the brand not only for the sort of investment sharks who buy them but Rolex´s response to the problem.
Same as well for Patek or AP. Both brands I used to admire and now, well I simply am not interested in owning a watch that comes from a company that likes the hype and the sort of people buying the watches.
So for me as a core base enthusiast so many of these brands now have little or no appeal to me any more. Same as my first high end love and my first higher end watch, Omega.
The continual "limited" editions and continual harping on about their connection with space, its all got rather boring.
I jumped off the merry go round 6 years agon and bought a Grand Seiko .
Your content is refreshing as its not all about the hype or profit, you cover exotic and real world which is so unlike so many other channels. Also, unlike so many other watch channels here you are not a walking buffed up ego!
On a completely seperate note I wonder would you consider doing a video on the dark side of high end watches which as we are seeing countless Russian Oligarchs assets being siezed or frozen would be a very timely topic.
I have often wondered about the high end and who many of its customers are. So many, especially now at the hyper inflated prices are from backgrounds that leave a great deal to be desired ethically.
It is something Rolex, AP, Patek and other high end brands always steer clear of talking about for obvious reasons and I know the old tiried excuse that a brand is not responsible for its customers actions comes in but as a purchaser, especially in this day and age I am not keen on wearing a brand who will have unethical people supporting it and getting special considerations because they have the money ( Patek´s one-off customs come to mind!)
People never seem to talk about the fact that even brands like Cartier have run into situations with so much overstock, unsold inventory that Richmont pulled back and destroyed 500 million euros worth of watches in 2018 to protect their selling price, rather than flood the market. Right now we're seeing a massive transfer of inventory from the AD to the Grey Market, and at some point, all those watches need to be sold. We'll see how long the prices rise, i wouldn't bet that this keeps going more than another year or two.
Too many junks are made!
The Grey market will choke on inventory. Everything is hype, look at brands in the past like Frank Mueller, Hublot and Panerai, where are they now ?
@@1flat681 yeah but you have social media now.
Good thing I invested in a bunch of the new G-Shock Rubik's Cube editions. $150 to $10,000 in no time! ⌚🚀
I’m really getting turned off at the minute by certain shouty RUclipsrs bragging about their travelling and private jets and watch boasting, the same ones who complain about Chrono prices not being real, yet go to their sites and lo and behold, they’re advertising those same watches for a premium. It’s good that people like Teddy still do informative content and not the crap they churn out. They know who they are…
Excellent video Teddy. Buy the watches you enjoy, not to resell them for a profit. You make money in the financial markets. Rolex, PP, FPJ, AP are not part of thd investment portfolio of Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger.
I just drove my Timex Weekender "off the lot" aka Wal-Mart. Is it worth a fortune yet?! 🤣
I don't mind people buying them for investment or resale, as long as every watch enthusiast is able to walk in a boutique and purchase or order the watch within a reasonable timeframe.
If you disagree with this then why do you sell watches for a premium on your site?
If your investing in watches, you got to buy the high end pieces or limited production runs. If you collect watches you buy what you like. The low end and mid tier watches just do not hold their values.
I have been collecting watches for 30 years and the current market situation is just plain stupid. In the 30 years I have been collecting I have never bought a single watch, be it a Rolex, Omega, etc. expecting monetary gain . I collect because I love watches and that is how it should be.
Because of the hype of certain brands in watches, I've been more drawn to brands like Nomos, Glasshutte, and Zenith since it seems like ppl that recognize those watches seem to really enjoy the craftsmanship in watches.
This. It gives me a chance to actually considered other brands, even smaller no name micro brand stuff
I've got more colleagues asking me about my green Submariner 116610LV these days, some also managed to deduce that my watch stand in the office is to charge the battery 🤣. Being one of the only watch enthusiast in my office, I get more questions about watch investments and ROI more than actually about the watches or end users nowadays.... it used to be along the lines of "what should I buy for my fiancee?" just a year ago
JUST well said, that's it, Well said!
This is why the high end replica watches have exploded in popularity. Watches like a sub that were expensive but affordable are no longer affordable.
I'm not new to owning watches, but the current market is quite disappointing. I've reached a point in my life for a milestone watch and I was looking at a Rolex. Not being able to preorder and configure the exact DJ I want is crazy. I was offered a Rolex recently from an AD, but I don't want to "settle" for a watch because that's what's available. It's my hard earned money and I'm not in it to play these AD "games". So I've decided to move on to Omega and Breitling, because I love a few of their models and I can at least obtain them.
This is why I bough the Trilogy Seamaster.
Been collecting watches and the trading ..... is not something I am into watches for. For those who do it, don't blame you if you can make ridiculous money. I for one have abandoned Rolex due to the Corruption of AD's. There are so many other great brands that a watch collector can purchase. To each his/her own!
My beef with hype watches is that they cause people to neglect (Thankfully, for now!) other models in the same sphere or even within the same brand. I am particularly amazed that someone will spend $130K for a basic 5711 on secondary markets. People rarely think about this, but the same money buys you two Patek Calatravas (one in platinum and one yellow gold), A Bulgari Octo Finissimo (steel with the blue dial please!), A Blancpain Villeret Complete Calendar, the most ridiculous Grande Seiko diver of your choice, a Rolex GMT (even at inflated grey market prices), and a trunk-style Louis Vuitton watch box to hold them all (about $7k!). Whats more, after all of that, you would have enough money left over to go ahead and and buy your spouse a Cartier Tank (or two, one gold and one steel) just for fun. Even in the "one watch relative to one watch" comparison, that someone buys a secondary market 5711 rather than a white gold Zeitwerk Date or a Platinum Datograph is just astounding to me. In either case, you would have change left over by the way. At the lower end of the scale, generally speaking, who pays the price people are paying for Rolex sports watches when a company like Moser exists? It is, to be frank, insanity to me.
It's all about the money. There's plenty of Daytona, AP etc for sale on the second market. If used watches were selling below retail there would be plenty available at the AD.
The reason why it’s selling above retail on the second hand is because you don’t get any in the AD to begin with because of the preferred client list.
@@hlee2 the reason why you don’t get the watches at AD is because ADs prefer to sell the watches to their preferred clients, which are the gray market dealers.
@@hlee2 good point...
What I don't understand is... there is CLEARLY huge pent up demand for Nautilus, Royal Oak and Richard Mille-style bold, chunky design. That is what's cool, and desirable.
So why do all the mid-tier brands (Tissot, Hamilton, all the thousands of others), who have zero scruples about copying, just keep releasing the same old tired, dainty, old man, me-too garbage designs? Just give people what they want!
0:17 I understand the context, but still cringe at the sight of Rolex shown on even par with Patek and AP. The world is a crazy place.
Edit: Watching the entire post, interesting topic with a thoughtful take and eloquently described observations. Personal opinion, as a watch enthusiast, I’m indifferent to watches as an investment. I buy what I like and can afford and would assume most watch enthusiasts share that approach. It’s no more than a hobby and a “luxury” that we can participate on any level, regardless the real or perceived value of our collection.
From a watchmaking perspective it’s two complete different worlds…a shame that brand equity means more than the art of the craft.
Thank you, Teddy. You are definitely correct. I really believe that like anything else ….. what goes up, must come down. We will definitely see the watch market Capp off eventually and possibly turn down. I love to collect watches. I do not look at it as an investment to trade watches for gains. If one would like to invest, then follow Warren Buffett and park your investment in the S&P 500 and never look back.
I have truly enjoyed your channel and objectivity which you frequently share. My query is in some of your discussion points with Kevin O'Leary, outside of the dial appearance, does he not also raise the prospect of a particular watch as an investment? Does this not help perpetuate the thought of getting into watches as investment?
I don't see it as a problem except some of those are desirable and unattainable. People always assign inflating value to things from baseball cards to paintings, cars, watches, etc. I guess we can find some solace in having a truer appreciation for the craft and artistry down here in the real world.
Thank you so much for making this video Teddy. I'm 37 years old. My whole life I dreamed of owning a brand new, entry level Rolex. Now that I can finally afford one at retail, "flipping culture" has over inflated the price so much I can no longer buy one. As a result, I have now discovered other great brands like Sinn and Longines. If Rolex would have allowed me to buy at retail, I never would have discovered those brands. Now, as a result of Rolex becoming over inflated, my view of the brand has become poisoned to where I only see it as an over hyped brand, as opposed to the high quality brand with a rich history that I should view it as. Hopefully industry professionals see this video.
I am right there with you at 39 years old. I have been wearing a watch since 2nd grade and have always had an eye for Rolex and Omega growing up due to movies of the 90's and 00's. If it weren't for Teddy's videos, I too wouldn't know anything about other brands that have just as high of quality, possibly higher, and I have shifted my brand focus entirely. While I would love to acquire a Rolex Platona with the chocolate subs, I would be just as happy with a Longines, Omega or even good looking Tissot. I have never been about status, but rather functionality and what makes me happy. In today's world, I feel you not have an acceptance culture by wearing the top three on your wrist as some type of passage into success and status.
You can still get one at retail. Just have to have patience and visit your AD a few times. The problem is people want a watch now. Go enjoy your Longines and live life and you’ll ge the call some day
Give em a bloody nose, go Omega. I did and have no regrets whatsoever. 👌
@@TheSkatereel I've been thinking about doing that.
@@nastang87xx Thanks I've been thinking about that. I'm leaning towards Sinn.
I love watches because I think they're works of art. I've never bought one as an investment and never will. Id never buy something I think is ugly just because it'll make money
As long as there is not a significant recession, I can see the state of the market only getting worse for an indefinite period of time.
The world NEEDS Rolex, AP and PP right now and will pay whatever is required to obtain them, as the perception is that the money spent is safe and the watch will only appreciate. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy as more and more people buy in on this premise, driving prices ever higher.
MSRP is no longer relevant as ADs are getting better at ensuring customers spend at least the secondary market cost of their chosen watch in jewellery/unprofitable watches before they are allowed to purchase, effectively meaning the watches cost far more than MSRP right out of the gate.
I can honestly see Rolex Submariners selling for £50k+ and Daytonas for £150k+ in the not too distant future. Compared to high end cars even those prices are positively reasonable.
I think the manufacturers have a large role in reinforcing this toxic culture by allowing for percieved scarcity. I started my watch journey back in university, after having been gifted a speedmaster, I then looked to what I could appreciate and realistically achieve then, the skx et al. Since then I've built my collection and have been fortunate enough to acquire some now 'desirable' pieces. However, as life progresses and I reach more milestones and want to celebrate with a watch, I'm finding that the watches that I had been coveting are now ridiculously overpriced. What it means for the true enthusiast is that brands like rolex, AP, vacheron and patek are essentially off the table. Why in the world would I pay 4x more for something with the same horological heritage, finishing and functionality just becase it has a different logo on it, much rather get a nice JLC, blanc pain, GS, omega, ML etc etc.
There will always be people interested in watches as investments. The numbers are greater now with a lot more affluence (from stock market valuations, cryptocurrencies, etc.). There's feedback loop as certain watches become harder to get, promoted extensively in the media (e.g. rap artists incorporating them into their raps) and social media (rich people flexing those same watches) that feeds into one of the pillars of luxury (i.e. hard to get). There are also long time watch collectors that make it a principle to only buy watches that are highly likely to appreciate so that they can flip for another higher end watch, like building and burnishing their stock portfolio. They have been in the game longer.
I am of the opinion that a lot of the watch media are putting too much attention and spotlight on these "investment" watches and on sensationalistic watches with sky high price tags. It's bait to drive up clicks to their websites, videos, etc. There's a lot more watch brands out there that manufacture very good watches that are often ignored. Then there are those where too much attention is paid to only a single watch line when these brands have other watch lines that are just as good, if not better. Part of the blame can be put onto those watch brands for their poor marketing effort but also part of the blame can be put onto the watch media who don't take the trouble to educate/show their audience other watches that are worthwhile to consider.
Then there's those who consider themselves watch enthusiasts but only seem to post/discuss the same few brands and watches (i.e. the usual suspects of Rolex (everything), AP Royal Oak, Patek Philippe Nautilus, Omega Speedmaster, Omega Seamaster, Tudor Black Bay, and recently, Grand Seiko but that is due to Grand Seiko releasing something every week or other week) that it gets tiring to read and generally not helpful. In this area, I try to do my part to bring in other watches into the discussion. For example, the recent video on luxury chronographs - I mentioned the Breguet Type XX1 3817 in my post. That's an aviation-style chronograph watch with lineage to heritage (and not just the haute horology aspect), rare mechanical (i.e. central chronograph minutes hand), updated modern calibre with silicon balance and silicon pallets, open caseback to show the high quality finishing, plus a 100m water resistance.
I feel like watch enthusiast consider watches as a thing with heritage, class history and a object to pass it on to their kids not as a investment like a stock.
To some extent everyone is swayed by the value of the watch but by what extent. It's hard to draw the line of where it will harm the watch industry and the beauty of the fine watch making profession. It's always about striking the right balance. Conversely, if there is no value associated with the watch, it's hard to feed the professionals who are doing this fine job of promoting the essence of high horology. People collect the watches also to feel that the value has gone up since they have spotted a gem but whether they cash in on it is another matter. But to say you want to get rid of the increasing in value of the watch is ridiculous since it needs that even to the hobbyist or collector. And yes people definitely also consider the resell values of the watches otherwise there would be a surge of people buying Cartier, Chopard, GP, Seiko, Panaerai, etc.
If you're broke... Seiko/Citizen...
Got a decent Job? Oris, Oris, Oris... Maybe Sinn or Nomos...
Upper middle Professional 5k+ Now you can look at the usual suspects... Omega, Tag Heuer, Tudor etc etc
Loaded? Breitling, Grand Seiko, Cartier etc... Now you're looking at luxury...
Actually Rich... Well forget about Rolex, unless you're dumb or lucky, forget about a nautilus and srs why bother w a Royal Oak? Maybe look at Lange? IWC? JLC? I dunno, so much cool stuff to choose, Rolex is completely overpriced now... Not worth it...
When I was watching the episode of Succession when Greg bought a watch from Kendall’s watch guy I was wondering what steel Rolex is going for $40k in the secondary market?
Now I know.
I think you're wrong. In the last two years here's what the value of my watches have done (based on eBay sold prices I've observed).
Smith's Everest 1950's - Paid £200, now sell for £800 +
Smith's PRS29a - Paid £400 - now sell for over £500 IF they come up at all.
Seiko SGF (a humble quartz daydate homage) paid £180, saw one sell for £400 after they were discontinued and people are now asking upto £700.
Vintage Vostok - paid £38, now the same watch sells for over £80 regularly.
Timex Marlin vintage - Paid £30 same watches now sell for £70-£80 regularly.
I could go on...I think you're so obsessed with the high end of the market, you've lost touch with what's going on at the true entry level to the market. There are tons of watches in all price brackets which are doubling in value and are very investable.
So for example, you don’t think Hulk will go to $50000 in 20 years?
I think certain watches have proven to go up in value as a longterm investment.
I like to think watches as holding value against inflation as a longterm investment.
1968-70 Pepsi used to be $120 back when it first came out in 1968-1970.
50 years has passed and now it’s way more than $120.
i hate hype. but it;'s a good thing in general for the industry,... I can just NOT buy hype watches.
I love watches & do have grail watch wishlist but the cost is ridiculous!
The idea of a watch as an “investment” just isn’t for me.
I’m waiting for a Daytona because I’ve always wanted one (my grandpa had a white zenith powered one from the mid 90s until he passed in 2003). There are far better investments, even the original Royal Oak 5402 (which is one of the best examples of “investment” long term) which sold for 3k and gets listed for $150-$300k vs the S&P500 where $3k investment puts you at nearly $550k over the same period. The s&p is a conservative and low risk investment too, you can greatly outperform it with a little bit of work.For me a watch is something to enjoy, if I decide to sell it in 30yrs and it is worth more, great. If not, I’ve gotten decades out of it, it doesn’t owe me much.
The only way these are real investments imo is the short term inflation of the secondary prices. To me that is a “hustle” like flipping sneakers or something.
For me, it’s the love of the craft and what they represent. For now. I’m grabbing a fifty fathoms. Level of movement finishing is unreal, especially for what dealers will discount them to
Love my 16610, but will be waiting awhile for a ceramic sub. Be nice if the hype would pass already lol
As someone in a third world country, even spending $200 on a watch is an INSANE amount. A watch worth $1000 is multiple salaries. This is why I will only every buy watches that appreciate in value. Purely because you could buy a house for that much. so it would be incredibly irresponsible to buy something that depreciates for that much money
Premium manufactures constraining supply is similar to mature public companies buying-back stock to boost value. If they can create that level of buzz, more power to them. Just let the buyer beware the contrived nature and risk to supply-side sand-bagging factory output level. Rolex letting Tudor largely replace them in that historic market segment is fine if they can pull it off. Tudor is making cool stuff a reasonable luxury prices. Again. more power to them.
Terrible idea if you buy Rolex for this reason. The buying a cheap Rolex is over. You're buying in at overpaying territory. You have zero margin for error when you overpay. Rolex buyers seem unaware that the supply has been deliberately witheld to create the current artificial shortage. Rolex make a million watches a year. AP in contrast make 40K Royal Oaks. You can't compare the two brands. And we already had one recent crash in high end watches where even vintage Swiss watches had very soft sales at auction. Mass produced watches took a bath just like new mass produced Porsches. The issue is that the more cash you tie up in a watch or car the harder it's going to crash if the production numbers are high. How mamy millions or Rolex are out there? These numbers cannot justify the prices for watches with unremarkable movements. The truly limited watches will be much harder to replace after a financial crash.
I absolutely love nice watches. But, no pun intended, if you’re looking for an ROI, timing is everything. Right now crypto and Bitcoin is going crazy and looks to continue moving forward. A lot of this market behavior with watches was due to new riche from crypto investors looking to put their money into something. This will happen again. Any time one market pumps, money will be made and spent and people like nice things. The watch makes the man and can be a status symbol. To crypto investors, status means a lot. It shows that they’re a successful trader and they want people to see that. I think it’s a good time to consider watches as an investment opportunity. And even if you don’t sell, this is something to pass down to your children and grandchildren.
Nice video however let me try to interject some economics to your positions. 1. 80% of all U.S. Dollars that are current present have been printed since March of 2020. If you think of pure money inflation it trickles down to everything including watches. This in turn increases the stock values, home values etc and as such people want to put their excess capital into fungible investments like art, watches, cars, real estate. So what is happening in the watch market is totally natural. 2. If a pandemic cant reduce demand for luxury products, then do you seriously think that an ordinary recession will? A recession will cause the FED to reduced the rates and print more $$ causing prices to rise. The only thing that destroy the watch market is a global nuclear war and if that happens, watches are useless.
The forced scarcity of luxury watches, skyrocketing prices in the second hand market, and inevitable investment bubble it has created, projects a negative message to the average consumer, and is therefore bad IMO for the industry as a whole. The watch industry survived the advent of digital devices, because Swatch companies like marketed them as attainable and functionable accessories, amongst a newer generations of wearers who are increasingly preferring to consume less.
If the average consumer begins to associate watches with "the thing that people with more money than sense throw piles of cash at," the industry will transform into a niche market of uber expensive luxury watches, and a declining market of cheaply made fashion watch knock-offs.
Teddy, what a breath of fresh air balanced by some sound common-sense. Your channel and content is way ahead of the pack.
The current market is absolutely ridiculous (especially for the blinged over-priced models). I've had a couple of older more classic Rolex's (16700 GMT and a 14060M Sub). I sold the GMT to buy the Sub and sold the Sub to buy a Paramotor (of all things).
I never for one minute considered them as investments; I bought them, wore them, abused them and moved on. Of course looking back I would be pushed to buy my original watch back which does make me a bit sad, but watch collecting, like life, is a journey. Now I have a lovely old Omega Speedy Broadarrow, SINN U50, Vertex M100 and a CWC.
I would love to get another Rolex, but am put off by those who wear them as status symbols. That said, there are so many amazing watches out there that I will eventually get something a bit more understated when the time and price are right - like Jaeger-LeCoultre Memovox Deep Sea or a IWC Spitfire Mark XVIII Fliegeruhr perhaps, but a Polar dial Explorer II would also tick the box.
So many nice watches, but not enough time or money ... Keep up the excellent work!
I don’t have a problem with some investment watches but the market is sending a misconception to the general public that watches are great investments. Only a few watches are. This current condition has given me a hard time to aquire a few watches I have always wanted. I think watches are artisanal products, a combo of art, history and style. Able to maintain monetary value is great but the current market has gone far beyond crazy. I don’t want a economic downturn but a recession may be the only way to correct the watch market.
Investing in watches is not a bad thing. It creates entreprenual behaviour. What is bad is that it demoralises the minority of the people out there who wants to buy a watch that he or she really loves, without the brand consciousness. For example, if the brand isn't a rolex or omega, i'm not buying it type of mentality.
I hope some watch prices do crash further in this world of 5% rates so some of these become attainable
This is a great video teddy. This is the truth.
Watches aren't traditional investments because most watches are cheap pieces of shite. Haute-horology is something else entirely and has infinitely more in common with fine art collecting than traditional investing. People would do well to remember that.
Ask a young Rolex Daytona owner what a Zenith is, and they'll probably have no idea. It's as hilarious as it is frustrating.
Personally, the idea of spending over $300 for a watch always seemed rather ridiculous to me. It is only recently that I started taking an interest in luxury watches, and that interest came from looking at these watches as long-term investments. I think most -- if not all -- watches that are $10K or over, will at the very least hold most of their value, and in many cases appreciate in value. When you look at it that way, you're not actually "throwing away" $10K or $50K or $500K on a luxury watch, but rather putting your wealth into an asset that you can enjoy rather than putting it into a bank account. Although I personally would never spend over a few hundred dollars on a watch that I wouldn't be convinced will hold its value, and I still see these expensive watches as investment watches, I'm also starting to see the beauty in them as well and taking a genuine interest in them. Seeing the tremendous time, resources, and ingenuity that goes into making these watches, and seeing how rare some of them are, I can understand why people take a strong interest in them.
The negative aspect of investment watches shouldn't be too impactful a point for most watch enthusiasts. There really are only the three brands that are just massively in demand and super hard to get at a good price now because of their increasing value, which is a tiny portion of the entire watch market. There are so many brands, so many watches to get enthusiastic about. I love a good rolex, no doubt about it, but if I can just give up the "status" a rolex might offer, I can find just as beautiful and well made a watch from another brand at many different price points. The beautiful shots of a Breitling, Longines, Zenith, all just hammer that point home for me. We're spoiled for choice.
I enjoyed the presentation but not sure I see this as going away any time soon. Sure, the market might be at an high; but to think that you will ever be able to grab a used sub at a flee market is silly. I can’t think of another example of an “asset class” in the past few hundred years that ever stopped becoming an investment vehicle once it was perceived as one (maybe tulip bulbs). Sure they cool down but once they cross that line, they stay there. And don’t think that your friendly non investment grade brands aren’t KILLING themselves to get there…..
It just becomes one huge circlejerk. Like you said, everyone is flexing and hyping the same few watches until it becomes just annoying. Personally i love the daytona and royal oak but honestly any watch that bears even some resemblance to them everyone just keeps saying its a copy and its so unoriginal. So i decided to stick with watches that i like and i can afford and in my opinion everyone should do that, leave the hustling and flexing to others.
Also, Richard Mille lol....
I'm always right in the middle with everything, but I just wanted to say... it's hard to pick a side because i feel like the ever increasing demand for gourmet fuckin watches is ultimately the industry selling it's own poison. I personally don't wear watches, OR invest in them, but i've always thought they were awesome and i guess all i'm saying is that if you don't want tons of people interested in your industry, don't make SUPER AWESOME SHIT
If you have opportunity buy something for investment but first of all buy something for yourself to wear and enjoy.
Indiffetent, it's just money.
Love the content! This is happening across the board just look at the sport card sector. Card companies are releasing same card set but printed with 1rst edition on them (looking at you Topps). It’s an artificial hype created by the companies and perpetuated by the few loud ones on social media that push the idea. It only serves to water down real collecting and enjoyment of the collector. Now your looked down on because you wear a Tissot (which I wear) and not the hyped 4! I think true enthusiast love looking at all watches; ones in it for money will not give you the time of day for less than $15k.
I do agree and respect to most of your presented points on your highlighted subject and it's issues, Teddy.
Do correct me when I am wrong that you too are aware with most issues actually stemmed from multiple profiteering interests via multiple opportunistic exploitations for multiple financial opportunities and securities causes. All interests involved are creators, contributors and influencers in constant market conditioning that's merely beyond its intended luxury segment scope in consumer market into traded valuables as physical valuable shares in an open stock market.
The irony about all these is that this isn't exactly new development or evolution since other luxury segments were in similiar conditions that predated the luxury watch market growth such the likes of Hermes, Gucci and Louis Vuitton. The only difference between these two markets are it's public impact scale ratios that we have ourselves to thank for it, whether we would wanted it or liked it or for otherwise reasons.
It's unlikely that this situation would change anytime soon regardless of the ongoing generational market evolutions due to interests.
Where do you think CB will be at in 2,3,4,5 years down the line?
I think this watch investment phase is going to be something similar to the Quarz crisis. It's rather an assumption that just came to me and I haven't dig deep enough, but I'm convinced that this trend will cause some serious damage to the industry.
I absolutely hate where most of the watch market is going right now. Id love to just go into a boutique and buy a watch. When I started getting into watches (about 7 years ago) you could go into a store and buy the watch you want. Sure you had to wait for very specific models, but it was overall a very straightforward and enjoyable experience.
Nowadays you can't get any Steel Rolex, Patek, or AP in a store. You have to search for them and often have to make deals with people that don't feel very professional. And you always have to wonder if you can afford to wait another 2-3 months. Most Rolex are now worth about 20% more than of September last year. Price Jumps like this make searching for a watch feel more stressful than enjoyable
Isn’t getting this boring that all RUclips watch guys always say don’t regard watches as an investment but keep on posting content about watches as investment and are always talking about the same stuff
I can’t speak for other channels but I try my best not to cover just the hyped models that increase in value. It does suck to cover a watch and then at the end have to always mention secondary market prices. I believe last year there were only two individual model reviews from Rolex because of this idea. I thought this video was a good idea because people only seem to talk about the good with this subject.
On the #waitlist for a Tiffany blue Dodge Caravan... Hoping to get the call any day now. #FLEX
love your take on this teddy :D. my view is as same as yours, I really am sad that famous family run AD's are also now catering the investment buyers and not the watch enthusiast who's been with them for years and will continue to be. I think they don't realise that if/when the market quiets down they will only be left with true watch enthusiasts. and as you say at that point even the true enthusiast may have turned away.
I think the truly biggest flex is buying at retail those watches that have the lowest market value, because it signals that you have so much money that depreciation doesn’t affect you.
being able to treat your entire watch collection as expenses rather than assets should be a flex in and of itself
@@terencekoh6296 Hell yeah!
Great video as always Teddy. Quick note, the Daytona sells for $14,550, not $13,150. Perhaps $13,150 was last year's price?
there watches like Jacob n co insane mechanics (to me looks very complex) price is in the 100,000 and up but investment wise they dont hold the value and the price wont go up
Teddy when do you sleep!? So much content, such high quality. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessments - these "holy grail" brands are unattainable for the average buyer and I would guess are alienating many perspective buyers in the process. I only purchase what I want to wear, enjoy and use. Keep up the great work!
Well said Teddy thank you for fair and true evaluation. I love a nice watch, but it's personal only if I meet someone who also likes a good watch do I get into it. We don't need to make watches about "mine is worth more than yours".
Respectfully disagree, Teddy. What got me into watch investing was a Forbes article that laid out how luxury watches have outperformed both the stock market and real estate, on average. That's right, on average. But, none of this has anything to do with watch collecting, which I also enjoy. The more attainable brands and models are insulated from the boom in the investment watch world. They are still just as attainable. Whether an Explorer sells for 10,000, or 18,000, that Seiko is going to be the same price. So, in short, my advice would be to someone who simply enjoys collecting, stay in your lane. You are right, more interest in watches generally leads to more attainable watches. I say, enjoy it, and either ignore the investors, or become one of them! For my part, I enjoyed both aspects immensely.
Thanks Teddy for another great video. I’m curious about your opinion on the current situation in Eastern Europe. Do you think this instability/insecurity might reduce the current hype?
I am not economist, but one thing I was taught about the economy is that it can be a game of morale as it is anything else. When stability and confidence in the market is solid, the market usually responds favorably. That said, we had a crazy last two years of instability with COVID and the watch segment remained strong probably as a byproduct of people finding enjoyment in things rather than experiences as we were locked in, high stimulus packages, and a shift in retail operations among brands that solely operate through brick and mortar. This all considered, if things escalate in Europe that could create different challenges and I think a dramatic downturn in the market could come. That said, I hope peace prevails and it doesn’t escalate further.