Cyber Month Deal! Go to nordvpn.com/hilbert to get a 2-year plan plus 1 additional month with a huge discount. Hi everyone thank you for watching! Do check out the links in the description if you found this video interesting and give me a follow on my social medias if you want more random musings on history. Take care!
Hi, appreciate your concern but I haven't actually watched Stefan Milo's video, nor do I believe he is the archaeologist responsible for the discovery and therefor warrants referencing (please correct me if I'm wrong). And I don't mean any disrespect to Stefan Milo in saying that. As I mention in the video I came across this news as a result of various historians I follow on social media and used both the articles published and linked in the description as well as my own notes and experience from my undergraduate degree in Early Medieval History.
heard there's a theory gaining traction that the Polynesians visited what is modern day Colombia about 150 years after the Vikings landed in newfoundland, due to genetic studies finding trace amounts of South American DNA in modern day Polyneisans.
@@TheAmericanPrometheus There is a video series on RUclips called "Skeletons from the Cupboard" that goes a long way in explaining how that happened. It's worth a watch if you are interested in human migration across the planet in early history.
I’m from a city in northern Portugal that is known for Norse/Norman settlement and influence. It’s also was known for its ship making abilities during the time of Iberian exploration, so the mice thing makes sense. We even still use ancient Norman rune symbols on the fishing boats, each family has their own.
It is hard to believe that the Vikings did not build settlements in the Azores islands, and if they did in Iceland and Greenland. If the Norse managed to survive in those inhospitable places, it would have been much easier for them to do in the Azores.
They did it in North America and then left again, but North America had uses, what does the Azores have as a use before the scale of the age of sail? The Vikings weren't trading with Africa.
@@thokim84It had land suitable for agriculture. But the largest problem with Azores for Vikings would have been it's remote location. Vinland was easier to navigate to as it was just the matter of following a coastline after you had left Greenland.
@@thokim84 North America weather wasn't the best for a settlement but is more we don't know, Portuguese knew India wasn't where North America is and that's why they refused Columbus service's. I believe is a map even older than that one (made by a Turkish) showing not only North America but South America and Antarctica.
The lack of human settlement persistence is most surprising. It suggests that the cattle was brought and removed from there. This, in turn, suggests that the Azores were always meant to be a stopover place while en route to somewhere else. Where would they have been going regularly to require a stopover for repro visioning but not settling despite the fact that they brought cattle there and cut wood. This is most remarkable. If they just got blown there while having cattle with them, this was already a settlement voyage that would have logically resulted in a regular settlement. The Azores are lush, warm and hospitable in stark contrast to Iceland, Greenland, or even Skandinavia. Not settling there permanently makes absolutely no sense especially if they already had cattle and probably seeds, too, with them.
@@Tetsulot this explanation doesn't make sense, it's easier to go to Iberia for them than fo the Azores Maybe just like the Portuguese later they used it as a harbor for their exploration of the Americas or Africa ? Honestly I have no clue about this either
Maybe they set up camp there while they were regularly raiding Iberia and Africa, then when they stopped raiding there, there wasn't any more reason to stay?
@@willek1335 That's the story in the bible. The dove came back with a twig. The raven sent out later found land which probably pleased him more than a wooden box on the sea, so he stayed. Which throws off the whole story of the pairs of animals seeding the new populations, but the bible was never great on topics of consistency.
@@historywithhilbert146 Noah worries. I deleted Moses from my comment, as you might think it belonged in the basket, so I decided not to ark on about it or go raven on.
Has anyone done aerial archaeology or ground penetrating radar of the Azores? It might reveal a lot. I might look into that, I did a bit of it years ago (aerial/ satellite archaeology). It may all be covered by current day sites, but sometimes it makes it easier to work out where to look. The problem with Vikings, and their mice, is they went everywhere. Even through Portugal, well before the age of discovery.
Of course: I know the Azores and I know that archaeological explorations have been carried out for decades, so much so that it is also well explained on the web that the Vikings were certainly not the first to arrive at the Azores, but the CARTAGINESIS, 300 YEARS B.C.
@Historical Revisionism Indeed, the theory is demonstrated by the fact that coins of ancient Carthage have been found in the Azores, as well as historiographical evidence from the Greek era.
@Historical Revisionism The historical evidence that I have also found in the Azorean museum are quite precise: they speak of a discovery by an English expedition in 1749, together with other artifacts, including a small equestrian statue.
@Historical Revisionism However, it is a historical fact that the Phoenicians, who were also the first founders of Carthage, and the Carthaginians themselves later, passed the Pillars of Hercules, in times when the Vikings did not even exist.
Vikings finding the Faroes: sweet, let's settle. Vikings finding Iceland: sweet, let's settle. Vikings finding Greenland: sweet, let's settle. Vikings finding the Azores: this place is simply inhospitable, let's go back home.
As a Portuguese citizen it was very interesting to hear different theories about Portuguese territory at Sea 🌊. That link of the Ravens to the vikings is quite interesting, I'm from Lisboa/ Lisbon the Raven is the Symbol of Lisboa, the Symbol of the Capital of Portugal 🇵🇹. Good work guys
Very interesting. Also as an interesting note, in 1501 there was a combined international expedition, where the kingdom of denmark tried to rediscover the lost viking settlements of Greenland, and two Portuguese sailors took part of this expedition. Gaspar Corte Real and Miguel Corte Real. They would also be the first Europeans by the way, after the vikings, to arrive to america (before colombo)
I'm Portuguese and have been in the Azores, it's not talked about a lot, but when we arrived in the Azores there were ruins there, there is very little information online, but I've talked to locals from pico island who know about these ruins On another note, one of the islands of the Azores is named Corvo, Wich translates to raven
Hey there, if you came to são Miguel heres a small list of places where you can go - furnas - lagoa das 7 cidades - lagoa do congro - janela do inferno - vista do rei - getting drunk on ponta delgada - poça da dona beija -
It's not actually correct to say they're "to the west of Portugal" since they're an integral part of the country, the correct way would be to say "to the west of Portugal's mainland" or "continental Portugal". I say this from a place of love, since I love and follow your work for years now.
You can not say "to the west of Portugal's mainland" and then say "we" give them a lot of sh*t. You give as you would to any city, districts and states. The same way "we" give to Lisbon, Porto and Faro. The subscidies are sent there aswell as in "Mainland Portugal". So yes, Azores is Portugal the same as "Main Land Portugal" is.
Great job as always Hilbert! I love your videos. They are among my favorites on RUclips. Just FYI, it was Noah, not Moses, who built the ark in the biblical account. Also, I would love to hear more about the vikings, it's such an interesting topic. Also, being of Scottish/Welsh decent, I would love to hear more about the British celts. Thanks! And an early happy holidays to you and yours!
About the mice - unless some skeletons are found that can be dated, there is no way of knowing when 'scandinavian' mice got there because a Norwegian or Swedish ship from the 1600s could have stopped by... Just as you said.
A video on the role of Vikings in Spain/Portugal would be very interesting. Flashpoint history made a video on the matter which may interest some of your viewers as well
Not to mention the fact that Landnámabók makes it clear that the whole finding land with raven was very unique to Hrafnaflóki. I mean they literally named him after his raven and it propably wasn't common place.
I believe you mean Iberia (not just Spain). Vikings raided Northern Iberia and Western Iberia mostly. Póvoa de Varzim and Nazaré in Portugal were colonised by the Vikings.
There is all sorts of claims for a pre-Portuguese settlement of the Azores, from Phoenician/Carthaginian colonization to an ancient civilization that was the Real™ Atlantis. There is never been any evidence, no burials or human remains, no artefacts, no conclusively artificial structures. This new study is interesting but if it was settled by the Norse, it mustn't have been for long, as there is no archaeological evidence now or when the Portuguese came (they describe the islands as forested and without farm animals). I think it's highly likely that many different people encountered the islands throughout the centuries, the Portuguese were certainly not the first. But I haven't seen any conclusive evidence of any kind of settlement, nothing like L'Anse aux Meadows. I may be wrong, there may still be evidence to be found but we must follow the evidence, not the other way around. Interesting video as always!
@@orlandixstudios6032 Pelo que li, não existe consenso científico sobre a datagem dessas estruturas de pedras, é sempre difícil datar pedras. Se houvesse restos humanos ou armas, ferramentas, etc, artefactos que pudessem ser datados inequivocamente, aí seria mais claro. Podem ser pré portuguesas ou construídas pelos portugueses e depois abandonadas e esquecidas e encontradas séculos mais tarde. Infelizmente, acho que ainda não temos evidência suficiente e espero que no futuro haja mais investigação e escavações arqueológica nos Açores.
I'm from the Azores. The mouse you find there only exists in one place in the world: Norway. Think about it. Later, in the XV century, many settlers from Normandy and Flanders were descendent from the colonization of Rollo in Xth century
"so after leaving Idlewild Airport in New York City, we flew halfway across the Atlantic Ocean to the Portuguese island of Santa Maria in the Azores. After refueling and stretching our legs we continued on to Lisbon. Our layovers were only for as long as it took to take care of business. There were no days built in, for me to have a leisurely, gentlemanly, civilized journey to my destination. Instead my seat was beginning to feel as hard as a rock pile. The engines continued to drone on as the Atlantic Ocean eventually gave way to the Iberian Peninsula. My view of Portugal was only what I could see from the air and what was at the airport. Again we landed for fuel in Lisbon, and then without skipping a beat, headed south across the Mediterranean to the North African desert. The beaches under us, in Morocco and the Spanish Sahara, were endless and the sand went from the barren coastal surf inland, to as far as the eye could see. With very few exceptions there was no evidence of civilization.” ― Captain Hank Bracker,
Vikings and Pirates attacked and landed various times in the 1500 ; the mice could have arrived at that moment. Or could have been mice that migrated to Portugal first before going to Azores. And Yes, would like a video on Viking activity in Portugal/Spain and Mediterranean
Am I the only one who reckons it could have been the Irish monks? Would fit the geographical origins of the mice but also explain why there was no lasting settlement or written record
Hilbert my good man. I would much appreciate your insight or opinion of the the 937AD 'Battle of Brunanburh'. I live not too far from the town of Bromborough in the Wirral. For such a famous battle, however, the location of said battle has been disputed for 300 years or more. Of course in terms of heritage, the Wirral is rich in Viking history (as well as Romans at Chester) and I guess the 'Battle of 5 kings' or the 'true birthplace of England' as I've heard locals call it (bias much?) only adds fuel to a long raging fire. Not too long ago however, Wirral Heritage (quote) '..found a field with a heavy concentration of artifacts which may be a result of metal working in a tenth-century army camp' and that the exact location is not to be revealed due to.... 'nighthawks' or 'thieving scouse bastards' as we call it here. A fairly good guess would be the Brackenwood golf course in Bebington which seems to get mentioned a lot.. of course, a group concerned with local heritage may only have ££££ in their eyes eh? A future video I hope? Cheers bro.
I remember reading an account from the 16th century about an equestrian statue being found in the Azores that had not be created by the colonists and the account speculated was either Roman or Carthaginean. It could have been a hoax, but this video reminded of that account
Great video, they also found recently some megalithic structures on the islands that were not built by Vikings or Portugese, those islands are such a mystery!
As a kid I spent my summers In Sao Miguel, Azores. One year while gathering Hydrangeas to decorate the streets for the procession for semana santa I was looking deep into this wooded area and saw a totem pole looking thing in there. At first as a kid growing up in the US I immediately thought about Native Americans and their use of totem poles. As I started learning more and more about the Vikings I realized what I saw could have been remnants left behind by them.
As a Portuguese American who has visited the Azores several times to see family and is very in touch with the culture and way of life there, it makes perfect sense that the Norse would have used the islands as a sort of pit stop along the way to somewhere else, or simply found themselves there accidentally and moved on to their true destination after a short period of time. With how the narrative surrounding the discovery of America has been altered in years past, it’s honestly not surprising if this is the case with the Azores as well. It’s only recently become pretty common knowledge that Columbus wasn’t the first European in America. Cattle raising is huge in the Azores, and there are vast expanses of open land that serve perfectly for grazing cattle of all kinds. Also the weather is favorable all year round. Not to mention the fact that there are no predators on the islands that could prey on cattle either. Even today with the islands being fully populated, there haven’t been any predators introduced to the islands aside from typical pet species. Aside from a lack of big enough animals to hunt for food on the land, the Azores islands really would’ve been a paradise for people looking for a place to settle back then. Even with the lack of game, fishing and whaling was/is prevalent as well, so it’s not like these theoretical Norsemen would’ve starved without their cattle around. It’s honestly a wonder that, assuming they did in fact discover it first, the Norse didn’t stay there and establish a permanent settlement before the Portuguese.
Really enjoyable and an interesting theory supported by some decent, if circumstantial, evidence. Any plans to look at Vikings in the Pennines? A lot of coverage is always about Jorvick but not so much about the west riding where we have several Norse place names such as Rastrick and Fixby nestled alongside AngloSaxon place names such as Huddersfield, Halifax and Elland
i think the most important question not raised in this video is that we know some people lived here, but not why they either left, or died out. the norse of greenland kept their way of life going until that way was brought to extinction, and the entire people either died, or abandoned their way of life to intermarry with the inuits. However, i dont really see why the norse would come to this uninhabited island, which is far less inhospitable than either iceland or greenland, and decide, yeah this place isnt working out, and lets get back to the mainland. And clearly something DID cause the island to be abandoned, so we need to ask the question of WHY?
Hello Hilbert. I recently saw a similar video from a channel I am not subscriber to. The picture of an island on that reminded me of maps of a land the Irish had said was in the Atlantic called Hy-Brasil as it had sea going through the middle, as suggested on videos about that. I have commented elsewhere that fishing boats in my county Yorkshire are like Viking boats and this made me think that the North Atlantic fishing grounds were never lost post Leif Eriksson. Fishing brought in revenue in the middle ages. Why tell everyone where all the fish were? Comments I read on videos like this before suggested that the Basques had also fished across the Atlantic.
The vikings were basically reverse mongols. Not known for their horsemen. But great sailors. Mongols were not known as able sailors. But great horsemen. Vikings were relatively tall and mongols relatively short. Both equally influenced their respective parts of the world.
I would say that the vikings are certainly the likeliest candidates. The timing is spot on for them at least and they had the means to get there pretty easily with cattle. Likely isn't the same as certainly so we do need some kind of archaeological find to be sure.
@@lorenzopinto7948 That do sound pretty likely but I would think they likely just used it to fill up on water and food, not starting a colony there. The Phoenicians did explore a lot just like the vikings and for a pretty long time too. But I don't know of any actual evidence they were there so if you know of any I would really appreciate if you would fill me in on those. :) To my knowledge are the only none Mediterranean colonies they had in Spain and Morocco west of Gibraltar even if they had trade as far away as Cornwall and Senegal..
Corvis Marinis = cormorants, a very common sea bird not...crows or ravens. It makes sense that the norsemen reached the Açores during their time. Also, there are are some clues that phoenicias/chartaginians and perhaps romans knew of those islands and had visited them.
The Vikings did not reach the Azores. Simon Connor (a geographer at the Australian National University who studies the paleoecology of the Azores) concluded the following statement: “Unfavorable winds may not have prevented determined sailors from the Portuguese mainland from reaching the archipelago. As for the mice, thanks to widespread trade routes, a mouse from Scandinavia could easily have boarded a ship in what today is Portugal and sailed over to the Azores”.
Researchers found a sudden increase of organic compound (5-beta-stigmastanol), found on a sedimentary layer dating to between 700-850 CE on Peixinho Lake in Pico Island. This organic compound is often found in the faeces of ruminants such as cows, sheep and goats (which are not native to the Azores). Coprophilous fungal spores were also found in the sediment samples. An increase in charcoal particles and a dip in the abundance of native tree pollens was found, which was possibly due to burning and cutting trees to clear land for agricultural activities. Caldeirão Lake also had a signal which was similar to the one on Peixinho Lake, dating to about 100 years later. Pollen from a non-native ryegrass shows up in layers from Pico Island dating to about 1150 and at 1300 on São Miguel Island. In another source I found that there were “abnormally robust northerly winds and weaker westerly winds” which occurred in the 8th century and sailing south from Norway would take the sailors more or less directly to the Azores. I probably missed quite a few other signs of pre-Portuguese inhabitation of the archipelago but I personally think that this is good evidence that the Azores were inhabited some 700 years before.
That's an awfully big jump from the premises that a mouse _“could_ have travelled” to the Azores in stages, or that unfavourable winds _“may not have prevented_ determined sailors from the Portuguese mainland from reaching the archipelago” to reaching the definitive conclusion “The Vikings did not reach the Azores.” Also, I have to question the notion of “determined sailors…reaching the archipelago”. It’s somewhat _ex post facto_ reasoning: like they were determined to get there despite contrary winds. This ignores the fact that before the Azores were discovered, these sailors had no idea there was any *there* there. It suggests randomly choosing some location in the middle of the ocean and being determined to reach that spot, while having no idea that there was anything but open water at the said location.
Hi there. I am from Asturias and Ireally eould like to see one of your interesting videos, talking about the interaction btw the old Kingdom of Asturias and the Vikings. Cheers!
Azores had several big earthquakes and eruptions, famine crises were also a problem. Probably the first settlements were lost in a castrophic event. There are some theories about people even in some thousand years earlier... Because of the winds, acording to some scholars and historians, the islands were probably known from earlier times, some old manuscripts refer to the blue islands, and that was probably the origin of the name azores. Explorers used to dump cattle in the islands before trying to colonize a place, then they probably burn for space and fuel but if there were settlements with primitive technology, probably one big earthquake or eruption would be easy to be wiped. The islands are all unique, almost everything in the landscape now isn't pure, even most plants and trees were put there, but it's the product of a portuguese culture with many influences, is mostly altered in the big cities but even there have some beautiful pearls, the weather is very unstable but worth the visit in any time of the year. Pico is the younger island, probably the one with most pure lava at the surface. Seeing what is happening in Spain, la palma, any mass event would be impressively dangerous.
They clearly explored Iberia, so I don't think it's far fetched at all. They were pretty thorough explorers, after all. I don't see them sticking around long since there were empty. You can't exactly negotiate trade with a volcano, but I would imagine it would be a comfortable place to winter and build a temporary settlement. I hope to see more by way of archeological evidence.
After reading the counter arguments presented by dr cooijmans on twitter i think can't help to conclude that the papers were most likely biased towards concluding that there were viking setlers. However I am still exited about the possibility that a human setlement happened in the western islands in the 700s. Wondering what could have been the origin of this saylors then...
It's a good theory that's gaining quite a bit of attention right now, but in a similar way to stories of Christian monks visiting Iceland before the vikings, its just as likely that they arrived on the azores too. Iberian monks sailing out into the open sea in search of lands to convert. Although I will admit this doesn't explain the mice.
Just a reminder that the Azores is not just Sao Miguel island but 9+ gorgeous & unique in there own way special islands , with the best sun sets & sun rises from the top of Pico island not only the highest mountain in Portugal but if you measure from ocean floor its the 2nd highest on the planet , I was born there & have climbed it 3 times in my youth , hope I'm lucky enough to climb it a 4th.... As for Vikings being or even settling there is a slim to none chance they did, the Azores are to far away from the European continent, from what I understand Vikings had to sail close to land that's how they made it to North Eastern Canada & along the Iberian coast into the Mediterranean & Africa , sure a storm might have sent them that way but they would have settled there then & there has been no real proof to suggest that, the mice must have come after the Azores were being settled by not just Portuguese but Italians, Spanish, French, Dutch, Norwegians & so on,.. but there is on Pico island a catacomb with many-many carved in dents in the walls ( like shelves) to suggest burials also a cave has been found recently indicating worshiping of some sort & also a very well built big pyramid which locals say was not built by our ancestors but was already there plus wheel cart ruts carved deep into the lava rock by the coast which disappear into the ocean , all this is on Pico island . I don't believe these were Vikings but some other civilization maybe thousands of years prior to Europeans settling there, I lived the last 45+ years in Canada while visiting a few times through out the years but when I visit Pico again I will surely investigate more myself , I've known about the pyramid & wheel ruts but not the others so I'm anxious to check it out plus I miss the Pico wine & all the richness those islands offer :)) .... interesting theory none the less I love the Viking history myself, I to have some Viking blood from the Germanic tribes from way-way back.... cheers.
I think the Norse got to way more places than we know about. It just seems like a people with every motive and means to sail in every direction from their homeland probably four most of what there was to find around Europe and North Africa.
Honestly I think it’s rather unlikely that the Norse settled there. The pasture for animals is excellent, there were no enemies to fight off, and the islands never freeze. A norseman looking for new places to farm would be hard-pressed to find a better place. And so (with the exception of a massive carastrophe) we would’ve most likely seen communities of scandinavians still there by the time Portuguese sailors found the Azores
we in the Azores dont even know when or how the portuguese discovered the islands . he said that Diogo Silves discovered them but thats not accurate in my opinion it was probably genovese sailors and merchants that used to get advantge of the north east winds to get to the north of europe
peace with all Azoreans on the islands and beyond. as you note there is much controversy regarding even the portuguese (re)discovery of the islands let alone earlier discoveries by others. There's a book from the 1970's called Atlantic Islands Madeira, the Azores and the Cape Verdes in 17th Century Navigation by T. Bently Duncan where he gives his own analysis of the contemporary controversy for english readers (please excuse the incorrect characters); 'According to Gaspar Frutuoso, who wrote Saudades da terra during 1580-91 and who supposedly relied on the accounts of elderly Azoreans, the island of Santa Maria was discovered on 15 August 1432 by Goncalo Velho Cabral. Unfortunately neither the date nor the person nor even the event can be proved to be correct. In fact, the evidence available indicates that the landing of Goncalo Velho at Santa Maria 1432, a story told a retold by many authors, is fictitious. Frutuoso arrived at the exact date 15 August by a backward deduction from the name of the island, Saint Mary, on the theory that the island was given this name because it was discovered on the principal feast day (the Assumption of the Virgin) honoring the mother of Christ. Following the same slippery line of reasoning, Frutuoso asserted that the island of Sao Miguel was first 'discovered' on 8 May 1444, on the day dedicated to the Archangel Michael. A venerable tradition among the islanders has it that Sao Miguel was first 'discovered' twelve years previously - hence Santa Maria must have been discovered on 15 August 1432. And, in 1932, great festivities commemorated the firth centenary of this event - a myth. For a myth is is, since the few scraps of contemporary documentary evidence that remain extant demolish these fines stones. The first piece of evidence comes from a map drawn by the Catalan cartographer Gabriel Vallesca, at Majorca in 1439, which shows eight islands presumed to be the Azores, and next to them is the legend: "These islands were found by Diego de Silues, pilot of the king of Portugal, in the year MCCCCXXVII [1427]." Unfortunately nothing whatsoever is known about this Diogo de Silves or his voyage. The second piece of documentary evidence is far from more authoritative and reliable: it is a royal letter, dates 2 July 1439, authorizing Prince Henry to organize the settlement of the 'seven islands of the Azores' on which, at some previous time, the prince had ordered the setting down of sheep. This letter supports several conclusions. First of all, 1444 is demonstrably false, and the settlement that depends on it, that Santa Maria was 'discovered' in 1432, by the calculation subtracting twelve years from 1444, must also be false. Second, by 1439 the Portuguese were familiar with seven of the islands - that is, all but the westernmost Flores and Corvo, which are the most isolated, the stormiest, and, except as aids to navigation, the least significant of the Azores. Third, the Portuguese had already placed sheep in the islands to provide food for ships that might visit them. Fourth, the name Azores was already in use. And, last, the earliest efforts at colonization must have taken place after the letter of authorization, quite probably 1440." pg11-12 i would love to chat with you about the Azores if you are willing. my family is of the Azorean Diaspora.
There is a legend of the "Seven Cities". It is said that in 714, an expedition set sail from Porto to flee the muslim invasion that began in 711. The expedition had 7 bishops, probably 7 ships, and several colonists were there. By that time, Porto was part of the Visigothic kingdom (was Suebi). The expedition set sail to the west. Noone came back to tell any tales. About the mice. A lot of colonists came from Flanders. How probable is it that, being an international trading hub, Scandinavian mice would end up in one of those ships that ended on the shores of one of the Azores islands shores?
Please make a video about if the vikings made contact with the Mayans because there are depictions of white skinned people and one their gods being called Votan just as Wotan. Without mentioning the whole Aztecs believing that Quetzalcoatl being a white bearded man that left on a "boat made of snakes" and then believing that Cortes being the returned Quetzalcoatl.
@@celtofcanaanesurix2245 The Icelandic Sagas document the Viking discovery of North America and led modern archaeologists to discover one of their settlements in Canada. But the Sagas actually do mention a Viking, Bjorn Asbrandsson, who became a chief(or high ranking member) of a very large native American tribe/empire somewhere way farther south than the other settlements and it's described a lot like central America.
And put together a story of how the settlement flourished then collapsed. PBS tv series "Secrets of the Dead" has a fascinating documentary on the rise and fall of the Greenland Vikings. It was really like a cold case investigation relying heavily on a number of science specialties to put the puzzle together.
Cyber Month Deal! Go to nordvpn.com/hilbert to get a 2-year plan plus 1 additional month with a huge discount.
Hi everyone thank you for watching! Do check out the links in the description if you found this video interesting and give me a follow on my social medias if you want more random musings on history. Take care!
Very interesting. Yes for Iberia and the Vikings. 12:46 Noah.
The reasoning used to figure this all out is so cool. The milk bucket cleaning hypothesis is something I never woulda thoughta
Hi, appreciate your concern but I haven't actually watched Stefan Milo's video, nor do I believe he is the archaeologist responsible for the discovery and therefor warrants referencing (please correct me if I'm wrong). And I don't mean any disrespect to Stefan Milo in saying that. As I mention in the video I came across this news as a result of various historians I follow on social media and used both the articles published and linked in the description as well as my own notes and experience from my undergraduate degree in Early Medieval History.
Great Video.
Yes do a video with Vikings in Spain 👍👍
The Vikings and Polynesians were explorers before global exploration was cool. This is so fascinating.
Also the Tamils and Chinese.
@@louvendran7273 Not Chinese.
heard there's a theory gaining traction that the Polynesians visited what is modern day Colombia about 150 years after the Vikings landed in newfoundland, due to genetic studies finding trace amounts of South American DNA in modern day Polyneisans.
@@TheAmericanPrometheus There is a video series on RUclips called "Skeletons from the Cupboard" that goes a long way in explaining how that happened. It's worth a watch if you are interested in human migration across the planet in early history.
I'm still waiting more info on the medieval east African coins found in Northern Australia
I’m from a city in northern Portugal that is known for Norse/Norman settlement and influence. It’s also was known for its ship making abilities during the time of Iberian exploration, so the mice thing makes sense. We even still use ancient Norman rune symbols on the fishing boats, each family has their own.
Interesting! Which city may I ask?
@@SEGUHO I think he is referring to Póvoa do Varzim.
Very interesting
Fascinating!
Thanks for sharing this! Impressive and very useful knowledge adding to the video
It is hard to believe that the Vikings did not build settlements in the Azores islands, and if they did in Iceland and Greenland. If the Norse managed to survive in those inhospitable places, it would have been much easier for them to do in the Azores.
Too far out in the boondocks of the Atlantic. Its at least 1500 km out from Portugal. Too easy to miss and get lost.
They did it in North America and then left again, but North America had uses, what does the Azores have as a use before the scale of the age of sail? The Vikings weren't trading with Africa.
@@thokim84It had land suitable for agriculture. But the largest problem with Azores for Vikings would have been it's remote location.
Vinland was easier to navigate to as it was just the matter of following a coastline after you had left Greenland.
@@thokim84 North America weather wasn't the best for a settlement but is more we don't know, Portuguese knew India wasn't where North America is and that's why they refused Columbus service's. I believe is a map even older than that one (made by a Turkish) showing not only North America but South America and Antarctica.
Would've been nice to have a surviving Viking settlement in the Americas or Greenland.
"Viking mice not to scale." Noted. Thank you.
That was an important disclaimer. I was a bit worried for a second before it turned up.
Looked like Godzilla-sized mousies. SO CUTE until they are up close! LOL.
The lack of human settlement persistence is most surprising. It suggests that the cattle was brought and removed from there. This, in turn, suggests that the Azores were always meant to be a stopover place while en route to somewhere else. Where would they have been going regularly to require a stopover for repro visioning but not settling despite the fact that they brought cattle there and cut wood. This is most remarkable. If they just got blown there while having cattle with them, this was already a settlement voyage that would have logically resulted in a regular settlement. The Azores are lush, warm and hospitable in stark contrast to Iceland, Greenland, or even Skandinavia. Not settling there permanently makes absolutely no sense especially if they already had cattle and probably seeds, too, with them.
That's easy, Iberia. They raided the Iberian kingdoms all the time.
Maybe wanted a place to hang out bro-style, no wives?
@@Tetsulot this explanation doesn't make sense, it's easier to go to Iberia for them than fo the Azores
Maybe just like the Portuguese later they used it as a harbor for their exploration of the Americas or Africa ?
Honestly I have no clue about this either
That's very intriguing indeed!
Maybe they set up camp there while they were regularly raiding Iberia and Africa, then when they stopped raiding there, there wasn't any more reason to stay?
If the raven saw land it would not come back. Noah was the flood guy, not Moses.
Why would a Raven not come back?
@@willek1335 That's the story in the bible. The dove came back with a twig. The raven sent out later found land which probably pleased him more than a wooden box on the sea, so he stayed.
Which throws off the whole story of the pairs of animals seeding the new populations, but the bible was never great on topics of consistency.
Concentrating so hard on getting the right Norseman I forget to get the right Israelite - typical!
@@historywithhilbert146 Noah worries. I deleted Moses from my comment, as you might think it belonged in the basket, so I decided not to ark on about it or go raven on.
@@historywithhilbert146 You think Noah was an Israelite?
Has anyone done aerial archaeology or ground penetrating radar of the Azores? It might reveal a lot. I might look into that, I did a bit of it years ago (aerial/ satellite archaeology). It may all be covered by current day sites, but sometimes it makes it easier to work out where to look.
The problem with Vikings, and their mice, is they went everywhere. Even through Portugal, well before the age of discovery.
Of course: I know the Azores and I know that archaeological explorations have been carried out for decades, so much so that it is also well explained on the web that the Vikings were certainly not the first to arrive at the Azores, but the CARTAGINESIS, 300 YEARS B.C.
@Historical Revisionism Indeed, the theory is demonstrated by the fact that coins of ancient Carthage have been found in the Azores, as well as historiographical evidence from the Greek era.
@Historical Revisionism The historical evidence that I have also found in the Azorean museum are quite precise: they speak of a discovery by an English expedition in 1749, together with other artifacts, including a small equestrian statue.
@Historical Revisionism However, it is a historical fact that the Phoenicians, who were also the first founders of Carthage, and the Carthaginians themselves later, passed the Pillars of Hercules, in times when the Vikings did not even exist.
@Diogo Rodrigues Fontes da historiografia greco-romana.
Vikings finding the Faroes: sweet, let's settle.
Vikings finding Iceland: sweet, let's settle.
Vikings finding Greenland: sweet, let's settle.
Vikings finding the Azores: this place is simply inhospitable, let's go back home.
As a Portuguese citizen it was very interesting to hear different theories about Portuguese territory at Sea 🌊.
That link of the Ravens to the vikings is quite interesting, I'm from Lisboa/ Lisbon the Raven is the Symbol of Lisboa, the Symbol of the Capital of Portugal 🇵🇹.
Good work guys
Very interesting. Also as an interesting note, in 1501 there was a combined international expedition, where the kingdom of denmark tried to rediscover the lost viking settlements of Greenland, and two Portuguese sailors took part of this expedition. Gaspar Corte Real and Miguel Corte Real. They would also be the first Europeans by the way, after the vikings, to arrive to america (before colombo)
Fascinating as always, Hilbert.
I'm Portuguese and have been in the Azores, it's not talked about a lot, but when we arrived in the Azores there were ruins there, there is very little information online, but I've talked to locals from pico island who know about these ruins
On another note, one of the islands of the Azores is named Corvo, Wich translates to raven
Noah, not Moses!
Thank you for returning to early medieval history!
Came here to say the exact same thing. Makes you wonder what other mistakes you might have missed.
Yeah i didnt realized he got the wrong jewish dude
I know my bad xD
@@saguntum-iberian-greekkons7014 Noah predates all the Abrahamic religions (including Judaism)
@@historywithhilbert146 it must be very hard not to say the wrong name at the wrong moment.
Woot! Vikings from Hilbert! Thank you
also, I would certianly love to hear about Viking adventures in Iberia as well
We were planning a trip to the Azores prior to the pandemic. Can't wait to set those wheels back into motion.
I would likewise love to visit at some point!
the Azores are a beutiful archipelgo huge and rich culture a bit different from the portuguese one if u do visit i hope u enjoy
Hey there, if you came to são Miguel heres a small list of places where you can go
- furnas
- lagoa das 7 cidades
- lagoa do congro
- janela do inferno
- vista do rei
- getting drunk on ponta delgada
- poça da dona beija
-
@@cristovaopt Thank you 🙏🏾
They are beautiful even in winter, I'm going back now, for December and January.
I’m happy that my two most favorite channels covered the same topic lol
Stephan Milo? :)
It's not actually correct to say they're "to the west of Portugal" since they're an integral part of the country, the correct way would be to say "to the west of Portugal's mainland" or "continental Portugal".
I say this from a place of love, since I love and follow your work for years now.
vocês pardais acham-se muito grandes e vêm todos mamar aqui e cozer o corpo nas poças da beja
bazam
@@hugolarbac474 grande açoriano
You give us a lot of shit? But you still eat some blikas fritas with laiã sauce
You can not say "to the west of Portugal's mainland" and then say "we" give them a lot of sh*t.
You give as you would to any city, districts and states. The same way "we" give to Lisbon, Porto and Faro. The subscidies are sent there aswell as in "Mainland Portugal".
So yes, Azores is Portugal the same as "Main Land Portugal" is.
@@cristovaopt ele agora não responde diabo que lhe pegue vem aqui falar mal e dps n quer levar pa trás
Great job as always Hilbert! I love your videos. They are among my favorites on RUclips. Just FYI, it was Noah, not Moses, who built the ark in the biblical account. Also, I would love to hear more about the vikings, it's such an interesting topic. Also, being of Scottish/Welsh decent, I would love to hear more about the British celts. Thanks! And an early happy holidays to you and yours!
I lived on Terceria Island in Azores for two years. It is beautiful, I loved the entire experience. Thanks for the video.
I would be interested in a video about Vikings in the Iberian Peninsula, or any other Viking history
About the mice - unless some skeletons are found that can be dated, there is no way of knowing when 'scandinavian' mice got there because a Norwegian or Swedish ship from the 1600s could have stopped by... Just as you said.
A video on the role of Vikings in Spain/Portugal would be very interesting. Flashpoint history made a video on the matter which may interest some of your viewers as well
It's pretty simple: basically non-existent, not-a-thing-really.
@7:40 Viking mice eh? They have those now?! Jesus christ now there's really nowhere to hide!
There were many explorers before the Portuguese.
The Portuguese were the first to ESTABLISH a trading network that spanned the wole world.
Exactly. First in the Azores were the Cartagineans.
Did the vikings go to brazil like the meme?
Vinland is the viking name of brazil?👽
Thank you for this video. A video on the Norse involvement in the Middle East would be appreciated.
I saw Stefan Milo cover this as well, fascinating subject.
At this point we will find Viking runes in the moon
Not to mention the fact that Landnámabók makes it clear that the whole finding land with raven was very unique to Hrafnaflóki. I mean they literally named him after his raven and it propably wasn't common place.
Yes I would like to see a video about the Vikings age in Spain
bjorn ironside, hastein names of the nordic tourists!
The natives were not overjoyed and kicked the snot out of them. But Vikings never gave up easily on anything. Stubborn you could say.
and so would I!
@@daneaxe6465 indeed, then again i would gladly switch the southern overlords for the vikings any day
I believe you mean Iberia (not just Spain). Vikings raided Northern Iberia and Western Iberia mostly. Póvoa de Varzim and Nazaré in Portugal were colonised by the Vikings.
There is all sorts of claims for a pre-Portuguese settlement of the Azores, from Phoenician/Carthaginian colonization to an ancient civilization that was the Real™ Atlantis. There is never been any evidence, no burials or human remains, no artefacts, no conclusively artificial structures. This new study is interesting but if it was settled by the Norse, it mustn't have been for long, as there is no archaeological evidence now or when the Portuguese came (they describe the islands as forested and without farm animals). I think it's highly likely that many different people encountered the islands throughout the centuries, the Portuguese were certainly not the first. But I haven't seen any conclusive evidence of any kind of settlement, nothing like L'Anse aux Meadows. I may be wrong, there may still be evidence to be found but we must follow the evidence, not the other way around. Interesting video as always!
Há ruínas de pedra pré portuguesas pelo menos na ilha do pico
@@orlandixstudios6032 Pelo que li, não existe consenso científico sobre a datagem dessas estruturas de pedras, é sempre difícil datar pedras. Se houvesse restos humanos ou armas, ferramentas, etc, artefactos que pudessem ser datados inequivocamente, aí seria mais claro. Podem ser pré portuguesas ou construídas pelos portugueses e depois abandonadas e esquecidas e encontradas séculos mais tarde. Infelizmente, acho que ainda não temos evidência suficiente e espero que no futuro haja mais investigação e escavações arqueológica nos Açores.
Haven't they found tombs without bodies in them now in the Azores? That's pretty conclusive, even if we can't DNA test them.
Yes please, a video about vikings in Portugal and Spain would be very interesting!
I'm from the Azores. The mouse you find there only exists in one place in the world: Norway. Think about it. Later, in the XV century, many settlers from Normandy and Flanders were descendent from the colonization of Rollo in Xth century
Stephan Milo just did a video on this a few weeks ago. It's pretty good. More from an Anthropologist viewpoint.
"so after leaving Idlewild Airport in New York City, we flew halfway across the Atlantic Ocean to the Portuguese island of Santa Maria in the Azores. After refueling and stretching our legs we continued on to Lisbon. Our layovers were only for as long as it took to take care of business. There were no days built in, for me to have a leisurely, gentlemanly, civilized journey to my destination. Instead my seat was beginning to feel as hard as a rock pile. The engines continued to drone on as the Atlantic Ocean eventually gave way to the Iberian Peninsula. My view of Portugal was only what I could see from the air and what was at the airport. Again we landed for fuel in Lisbon, and then without skipping a beat, headed south across the Mediterranean to the North African desert. The beaches under us, in Morocco and the Spanish Sahara, were endless and the sand went from the barren coastal surf inland, to as far as the eye could see. With very few exceptions there was no evidence of civilization.”
― Captain Hank Bracker,
What's this from?
Thor heyerdahl always stressed that the ocean is a highway not a barrier.
The Portuguese Empire was basically a 15th century version of a Viking state, but on a global scale.
I would love to watch a video about the Vikings in Portugal and Spain
Peace with all Azoreans wherever we reside.
Vikings and Pirates attacked and landed various times in the 1500 ; the mice could have arrived at that moment. Or could have been mice that migrated to Portugal first before going to Azores. And Yes, would like a video on Viking activity in Portugal/Spain and Mediterranean
Am I the only one who reckons it could have been the Irish monks? Would fit the geographical origins of the mice but also explain why there was no lasting settlement or written record
Yes, it's at least as good a theory. But Vikings are more fashionable these days for some reason.
Could also be Cornish sailors and tradesmen.
Vikings really had lots of high hopes, enthusiasm, hopefulness, desires, admirations, or and dreams yeah
yes do make a video on viking age Iberia , please include Portugal
Hilbert my good man.
I would much appreciate your insight or opinion of the the 937AD 'Battle of Brunanburh'. I live not too far from the town of Bromborough in the Wirral. For such a famous battle, however, the location of said battle has been disputed for 300 years or more. Of course in terms of heritage, the Wirral is rich in Viking history (as well as Romans at Chester) and I guess the 'Battle of 5 kings' or the 'true birthplace of England' as I've heard locals call it (bias much?) only adds fuel to a long raging fire.
Not too long ago however, Wirral Heritage (quote) '..found a field with a heavy concentration of artifacts which may be a result of metal working in a tenth-century army camp' and that the exact location is not to be revealed due to.... 'nighthawks' or 'thieving scouse bastards' as we call it here. A fairly good guess would be the Brackenwood golf course in Bebington which seems to get mentioned a lot.. of course, a group concerned with local heritage may only have ££££ in their eyes eh?
A future video I hope? Cheers bro.
7:35 Thank you for that very important precision
I remember reading an account from the 16th century about an equestrian statue being found in the Azores that had not be created by the colonists and the account speculated was either Roman or Carthaginean. It could have been a hoax, but this video reminded of that account
Iberian/viking history sounds good.
Moses and the ravens? Sounds like a indie band but I think Noah threw birds out to sea!
That setup before saying "The Vikings!" needed a meme follow-up!
viking age videos in general are good
Vikings in Spain and Portugal, yes please!
Great video, they also found recently some megalithic structures on the islands that were not built by Vikings or Portugese, those islands are such a mystery!
12:45 Noah send a pidgin to find land.
vikings are cool change my mind
yeah no 👎
As a kid I spent my summers In Sao Miguel, Azores. One year while gathering Hydrangeas to decorate the streets for the procession for semana santa I was looking deep into this wooded area and saw a totem pole looking thing in there. At first as a kid growing up in the US I immediately thought about Native Americans and their use of totem poles. As I started learning more and more about the Vikings I realized what I saw could have been remnants left behind by them.
As a Portuguese American who has visited the Azores several times to see family and is very in touch with the culture and way of life there, it makes perfect sense that the Norse would have used the islands as a sort of pit stop along the way to somewhere else, or simply found themselves there accidentally and moved on to their true destination after a short period of time.
With how the narrative surrounding the discovery of America has been altered in years past, it’s honestly not surprising if this is the case with the Azores as well. It’s only recently become pretty common knowledge that Columbus wasn’t the first European in America.
Cattle raising is huge in the Azores, and there are vast expanses of open land that serve perfectly for grazing cattle of all kinds. Also the weather is favorable all year round. Not to mention the fact that there are no predators on the islands that could prey on cattle either. Even today with the islands being fully populated, there haven’t been any predators introduced to the islands aside from typical pet species.
Aside from a lack of big enough animals to hunt for food on the land, the Azores islands really would’ve been a paradise for people looking for a place to settle back then. Even with the lack of game, fishing and whaling was/is prevalent as well, so it’s not like these theoretical Norsemen would’ve starved without their cattle around.
It’s honestly a wonder that, assuming they did in fact discover it first, the Norse didn’t stay there and establish a permanent settlement before the Portuguese.
I live in one of those islands and you forgot to mention a misterious pyramid in Faial island
Btw the map only has 7 of the 9 islands
@@azores671 forreal where's Corvo and Flores! ;)
@@discodandaman idk where they went maybe Americans took them
It's so fascinating how many places the Vikings went to
Please please please make another video about vikings in Portugal and Spain!
Plz do make a video on Viking era Iberian peninsula!!!!
Fascinating, as always. Yes please to Viking Iberia.
Really enjoyable and an interesting theory supported by some decent, if circumstantial, evidence. Any plans to look at Vikings in the Pennines? A lot of coverage is always about Jorvick but not so much about the west riding where we have several Norse place names such as Rastrick and Fixby nestled alongside AngloSaxon place names such as Huddersfield, Halifax and Elland
i think the most important question not raised in this video is that we know some people lived here, but not why they either left, or died out. the norse of greenland kept their way of life going until that way was brought to extinction, and the entire people either died, or abandoned their way of life to intermarry with the inuits.
However, i dont really see why the norse would come to this uninhabited island, which is far less inhospitable than either iceland or greenland, and decide, yeah this place isnt working out, and lets get back to the mainland. And clearly something DID cause the island to be abandoned, so we need to ask the question of WHY?
Hello Hilbert. I recently saw a similar video from a channel I am not subscriber to. The picture of an island on that reminded me of maps of a land the Irish had said was in the Atlantic called Hy-Brasil as it had sea going through the middle, as suggested on videos about that.
I have commented elsewhere that fishing boats in my county Yorkshire are like Viking boats and this made me think that the North Atlantic fishing grounds were never lost post Leif Eriksson. Fishing brought in revenue in the middle ages. Why tell everyone where all the fish were?
Comments I read on videos like this before suggested that the Basques had also fished across the Atlantic.
Where are the Viking graves and artifacts?
If they did, why did they leave? Too bad no oral history regarding the occupation of the islands.
The vikings were basically reverse mongols.
Not known for their horsemen. But great sailors.
Mongols were not known as able sailors.
But great horsemen.
Vikings were relatively tall and mongols relatively short.
Both equally influenced their respective parts of the world.
I would say that the vikings are certainly the likeliest candidates. The timing is spot on for them at least and they had the means to get there pretty easily with cattle. Likely isn't the same as certainly so we do need some kind of archaeological find to be sure.
The first in exploring Azores were africans, not Vikings: Cartagineans, 300 years B.C.
@@lorenzopinto7948 That do sound pretty likely but I would think they likely just used it to fill up on water and food, not starting a colony there. The Phoenicians did explore a lot just like the vikings and for a pretty long time too. But I don't know of any actual evidence they were there so if you know of any I would really appreciate if you would fill me in on those. :) To my knowledge are the only none Mediterranean colonies they had in Spain and Morocco west of Gibraltar even if they had trade as far away as Cornwall and Senegal..
Corvis Marinis = cormorants, a very common sea bird not...crows or ravens. It makes sense that the norsemen reached the Açores during their time. Also, there are are some clues that phoenicias/chartaginians and perhaps romans knew of those islands and had visited them.
The Vikings did not reach the Azores.
Simon Connor (a geographer at the Australian National University who studies the paleoecology of the Azores) concluded the following statement:
“Unfavorable winds may not have prevented determined sailors from the Portuguese mainland from reaching the archipelago. As for the mice, thanks to widespread trade routes, a mouse from Scandinavia could easily have boarded a ship in what today is Portugal and sailed over to the Azores”.
Researchers found a sudden increase of organic compound (5-beta-stigmastanol), found on a sedimentary layer dating to between 700-850 CE on Peixinho Lake in Pico Island. This organic compound is often found in the faeces of ruminants such as cows, sheep and goats (which are not native to the Azores). Coprophilous fungal spores were also found in the sediment samples. An increase in charcoal particles and a dip in the abundance of native tree pollens was found, which was possibly due to burning and cutting trees to clear land for agricultural activities. Caldeirão Lake also had a signal which was similar to the one on Peixinho Lake, dating to about 100 years later.
Pollen from a non-native ryegrass shows up in layers from Pico Island dating to about 1150 and at 1300 on São Miguel Island.
In another source I found that there were “abnormally robust northerly winds and weaker westerly winds” which occurred in the 8th century and sailing south from Norway would take the sailors more or less directly to the Azores.
I probably missed quite a few other signs of pre-Portuguese inhabitation of the archipelago but I personally think that this is good evidence that the Azores were inhabited some 700 years before.
That's an awfully big jump from the premises that a mouse _“could_ have travelled” to the Azores in stages, or that unfavourable winds _“may not have prevented_ determined sailors from the Portuguese mainland from reaching the archipelago” to reaching the definitive conclusion “The Vikings did not reach the Azores.” Also, I have to question the notion of “determined sailors…reaching the archipelago”. It’s somewhat _ex post facto_ reasoning: like they were determined to get there despite contrary winds. This ignores the fact that before the Azores were discovered, these sailors had no idea there was any *there* there. It suggests randomly choosing some location in the middle of the ocean and being determined to reach that spot, while having no idea that there was anything but open water at the said location.
Hi there. I am from Asturias and Ireally eould like to see one of your interesting videos, talking about the interaction btw the old Kingdom of Asturias and the Vikings.
Cheers!
Great pronunciation!
Natuurlijk willen we ook over de vikingers horen in Iberië. Over alles vikinger gerelateerd 😃
Azores had several big earthquakes and eruptions, famine crises were also a problem. Probably the first settlements were lost in a castrophic event.
There are some theories about people even in some thousand years earlier...
Because of the winds, acording to some scholars and historians, the islands were probably known from earlier times, some old manuscripts refer to the blue islands, and that was probably the origin of the name azores.
Explorers used to dump cattle in the islands before trying to colonize a place, then they probably burn for space and fuel but if there were settlements with primitive technology, probably one big earthquake or eruption would be easy to be wiped. The islands are all unique, almost everything in the landscape now isn't pure, even most plants and trees were put there, but it's the product of a portuguese culture with many influences, is mostly altered in the big cities but even there have some beautiful pearls, the weather is very unstable but worth the visit in any time of the year. Pico is the younger island, probably the one with most pure lava at the surface. Seeing what is happening in Spain, la palma, any mass event would be impressively dangerous.
They clearly explored Iberia, so I don't think it's far fetched at all. They were pretty thorough explorers, after all. I don't see them sticking around long since there were empty. You can't exactly negotiate trade with a volcano, but I would imagine it would be a comfortable place to winter and build a temporary settlement. I hope to see more by way of archeological evidence.
After reading the counter arguments presented by dr cooijmans on twitter i think can't help to conclude that the papers were most likely biased towards concluding that there were viking setlers.
However I am still exited about the possibility that a human setlement happened in the western islands in the 700s. Wondering what could have been the origin of this saylors then...
It's a good theory that's gaining quite a bit of attention right now, but in a similar way to stories of Christian monks visiting Iceland before the vikings, its just as likely that they arrived on the azores too. Iberian monks sailing out into the open sea in search of lands to convert. Although I will admit this doesn't explain the mice.
Just a reminder that the Azores is not just Sao Miguel island but 9+ gorgeous & unique in there own way special islands , with the best sun sets & sun rises from the top of Pico island not only the highest mountain in Portugal but if you measure from ocean floor its the 2nd highest on the planet , I was born there & have climbed it 3 times in my youth , hope I'm lucky enough to climb it a 4th.... As for Vikings being or even settling there is a slim to none chance they did, the Azores are to far away from the European continent, from what I understand Vikings had to sail close to land that's how they made it to North Eastern Canada & along the Iberian coast into the Mediterranean & Africa , sure a storm might have sent them that way but they would have settled there then & there has been no real proof to suggest that, the mice must have come after the Azores were being settled by not just Portuguese but Italians, Spanish, French, Dutch, Norwegians & so on,.. but there is on Pico island a catacomb with many-many carved in dents in the walls ( like shelves) to suggest burials also a cave has been found recently indicating worshiping of some sort & also a very well built big pyramid which locals say was not built by our ancestors but was already there plus wheel cart ruts carved deep into the lava rock by the coast which disappear into the ocean , all this is on Pico island . I don't believe these were Vikings but some other civilization maybe thousands of years prior to Europeans settling there, I lived the last 45+ years in Canada while visiting a few times through out the years but when I visit Pico again I will surely investigate more myself , I've known about the pyramid & wheel ruts but not the others so I'm anxious to check it out plus I miss the Pico wine & all the richness those islands offer :)) .... interesting theory none the less I love the Viking history myself, I to have some Viking blood from the Germanic tribes from way-way back.... cheers.
That map in the beginning reminded me of Hy Brasil and now I'm wondering if the Irish legend was really about the azores
Please do a video on Madeira!
Yes I would like to see a video about the Vikings settlements in Portugal. About 20 % of all DNA tests show scandinavian ethnicity in Portugal.
Portugueses have turkish blood. Portugueses have dark skin.
@@luispacheco6807 Perhaps you're a dark skinned turk, but I'm not. Don't stereotype the Portuguese. We come in all shades.
@@luispacheco6807 what????
@@luispacheco6807no
Nice video thanks
I think the Norse got to way more places than we know about. It just seems like a people with every motive and means to sail in every direction from their homeland probably four most of what there was to find around Europe and North Africa.
I was surprised to find out about the Norwegian Crusade to the Holy Land. Think its at Real Crusades History channel here on Ytube. Interesting story.
More about the Vikings in the northern Iberian peninsula would be interesting.
Honestly I think it’s rather unlikely that the Norse settled there. The pasture for animals is excellent, there were no enemies to fight off, and the islands never freeze. A norseman looking for new places to farm would be hard-pressed to find a better place. And so (with the exception of a massive carastrophe) we would’ve most likely seen communities of scandinavians still there by the time Portuguese sailors found the Azores
I'm reminded of that old trick question: "how many of each animal did Moses put on his Ark?" 😉
we in the Azores dont even know when or how the portuguese discovered the islands .
he said that Diogo Silves discovered them but thats not accurate
in my opinion it was probably genovese sailors and merchants that used to get advantge of the north east winds to get to the north of europe
peace with all Azoreans on the islands and beyond.
as you note there is much controversy regarding even the portuguese (re)discovery of the islands let alone earlier discoveries by others. There's a book from the 1970's called Atlantic Islands Madeira, the Azores and the Cape Verdes in 17th Century Navigation by T. Bently Duncan where he gives his own analysis of the contemporary controversy for english readers (please excuse the incorrect characters);
'According to Gaspar Frutuoso, who wrote Saudades da terra during 1580-91 and who supposedly relied on the accounts of elderly Azoreans, the island of Santa Maria was discovered on 15 August 1432 by Goncalo Velho Cabral. Unfortunately neither the date nor the person nor even the event can be proved to be correct. In fact, the evidence available indicates that the landing of Goncalo Velho at Santa Maria 1432, a story told a retold by many authors, is fictitious.
Frutuoso arrived at the exact date 15 August by a backward deduction from the name of the island, Saint Mary, on the theory that the island was given this name because it was discovered on the principal feast day (the Assumption of the Virgin) honoring the mother of Christ. Following the same slippery line of reasoning, Frutuoso asserted that the island of Sao Miguel was first 'discovered' on 8 May 1444, on the day dedicated to the Archangel Michael. A venerable tradition among the islanders has it that Sao Miguel was first 'discovered' twelve years previously - hence Santa Maria must have been discovered on 15 August 1432. And, in 1932, great festivities commemorated the firth centenary of this event - a myth.
For a myth is is, since the few scraps of contemporary documentary evidence that remain extant demolish these fines stones. The first piece of evidence comes from a map drawn by the Catalan cartographer Gabriel Vallesca, at Majorca in 1439, which shows eight islands presumed to be the Azores, and next to them is the legend: "These islands were found by Diego de Silues, pilot of the king of Portugal, in the year MCCCCXXVII [1427]." Unfortunately nothing whatsoever is known about this Diogo de Silves or his voyage.
The second piece of documentary evidence is far from more authoritative and reliable: it is a royal letter, dates 2 July 1439, authorizing Prince Henry to organize the settlement of the 'seven islands of the Azores' on which, at some previous time, the prince had ordered the setting down of sheep. This letter supports several conclusions. First of all, 1444 is demonstrably false, and the settlement that depends on it, that Santa Maria was 'discovered' in 1432, by the calculation subtracting twelve years from 1444, must also be false. Second, by 1439 the Portuguese were familiar with seven of the islands - that is, all but the westernmost Flores and Corvo, which are the most isolated, the stormiest, and, except as aids to navigation, the least significant of the Azores. Third, the Portuguese had already placed sheep in the islands to provide food for ships that might visit them. Fourth, the name Azores was already in use. And, last, the earliest efforts at colonization must have taken place after the letter of authorization, quite probably 1440." pg11-12
i would love to chat with you about the Azores if you are willing. my family is of the Azorean Diaspora.
Yesss I want a video on vikings in Iberia
The key question is what sort of helmets did Viking mice wear? Did they have horns?
There is a legend of the "Seven Cities". It is said that in 714, an expedition set sail from Porto to flee the muslim invasion that began in 711. The expedition had 7 bishops, probably 7 ships, and several colonists were there. By that time, Porto was part of the Visigothic kingdom (was Suebi). The expedition set sail to the west. Noone came back to tell any tales.
About the mice. A lot of colonists came from Flanders. How probable is it that, being an international trading hub, Scandinavian mice would end up in one of those ships that ended on the shores of one of the Azores islands shores?
I just looking to my globe, and find azores islands, i became curious and search it in youtube. And then watch this video.
The mice DNA is not strong evidence of the Viking on those Islands earlier.
Isn't possible that the Portuguese had been in Scandinavia and than brought the mice to the Azores that seems more likely to me
On behalf of the Viking-Mice I hereby declare Madeira and the Azores part of the new Kingdom of Scandinavia!
"Viking mice not to scale"
Phew, that's a relief!
Please make a video about if the vikings made contact with the Mayans because there are depictions of white skinned people and one their gods being called Votan just as Wotan. Without mentioning the whole Aztecs believing that Quetzalcoatl being a white bearded man that left on a "boat made of snakes" and then believing that Cortes being the returned Quetzalcoatl.
I don’t think that’s enough proof, I mean it’s possible, but there needs to be more evidence
@@celtofcanaanesurix2245 fair enough
@@celtofcanaanesurix2245 The Icelandic Sagas document the Viking discovery of North America and led modern archaeologists to discover one of their settlements in Canada. But the Sagas actually do mention a Viking, Bjorn Asbrandsson, who became a chief(or high ranking member) of a very large native American tribe/empire somewhere way farther south than the other settlements and it's described a lot like central America.
Ah yes. The most specifically random Vikings I didn't know I needed. Thank you.
It just blows my mind how people can find signs of inhabitation through such random stuff like sheep poop
And put together a story of how the settlement flourished then collapsed. PBS tv series "Secrets of the Dead" has a fascinating documentary on the rise and fall of the Greenland Vikings. It was really like a cold case investigation relying heavily on a number of science specialties to put the puzzle together.
There are traces that, probably, phoenicians got to the azores even earlier.
Cartagineans.
It's just crazy how something as specific as rats from 12 centuries ago can determine the answer to this question
I've never given any thought if there were differences in mice. I'm sure they all taste the same to cats.
@@daneaxe6465 yes