SHAHAK! The Mirage III Was The Most Successful Supersonic Fighter Of The Cold War
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- In the hands of the IDF/AF, the Mirage IIIC became an aviation legend. It is one of the most successful jet fighters of all time and probably is the supersonic fighter with the most MiG kills.
But the Mirage III was not a super-fighter. It was, in fact, a deeply flawed aircraft. Ironing out those issues and forging the Mirage into the Shahak - the sky blazer that tormented Arab air forces for a decade took skill, determination and a touch of good fortune.
In this video I go deep into the ‘short fuselage’ Mirage III, starting with its origins as a bomber interceptor. It’s turned into a bit of an epic, but I hope you enjoy watching it as much as I’ve enjoyed making it.
Main sources:
- I used a number of books in my research, most notably:
- Israeli Mirage And Nesher Aces, by Shlomo Aloni
- From Mirage To Kfir Part 1, by Amos Dor
- Mirage 3 vs MiG-21, also by Shlomo Aloni
- Mirage, by Paul Jackson
- Mirage III/V, published by Aviation Classics
- Dassault Mirage III Variants by John F. Brindley
Notable other sources:
- Cyrano radar background: www.secretproj...
- Radar range information: www.escadrille...
- Losses in YK War: www.jewishvirt...
A little bit later than usual this week as I got carried away on this one. A labour of love that I hope you enjoy. If so, please consider subscribing as it helps me climb up the algorithm. Thanks so much for your continued support!
A great video!
No apologies needed.
You did it better than I've seen the Mirage III done elsewhere yet. Educational.
@@icewaterslim7260 Amen!
For information, France was involved in the Korean war. The French Battalion was one of the most decorated of the conflict and was attached to the 2nd Infantry division.
The day a Frenchman find a way to walk on water, expect that 10 million Brits will tell everyone that it is only because he can't swim.
He'll be using British or German shoes, the snecma engine was from bmw.
France can't get any respect at all
“The ballast offered greater detection range and overall reliability” absolutely savage
I wondered if it was an advanced radar system whose name sounded a lot like 'ballast'...
I had to do a double take lol
hahahahaha that went right over my head! hahahahaha 😂😂😂
Timestamp: 39:35
I would not have noticed if not for having read barrettjordan3179's comment.
EDIT: your ballast sucks if it is not reliable. Microsoft Ballast 1.0?
@@petesheppard1709me too 😂
I am a Canadian and I remember the Mirage III on the TV series Les Chevaliers du ciel (The Knights of the sky) that impressed all the French canadian boys of my generation. The TV series was Top Gun a long time before the movie. I was always in admiration as the airplane is so good looking so I kept sketching it everywhere.
Tanguy & Laverdure!😉
Been trying to remember the name of that. Many years ago a buddy sent me a DVD he burned of random TV shows he'd find over the years. That was one of them. Only had the first two episodes I think. I also don't speak French, so no clue what anyone said. But I enjoyed it. Might have to look it up again.
Thanks.
@@Plaprad ruclips.net/video/5L5CsDlx__E/видео.html✈🚀
My Dad who was a pilot in IAF and flew the Mirage told me all about the Cyrano radar (BTW Cyrano is named after Cyrano de Bergerac, a 17th Century French dramatist known for his big nose). He said it was an ingenious piece of French Engineering that never worked. When one of his fellow pilots was taken captive in the 1973 Yom Kippur war in Syria, he was concerned about what secrets the Syrian interrogators might coerce out of him. And you can imagine his relief when throughout his captivity period he was relentlessly interrogated about the Cyrano.
So, did he just state the truth?
@@simonb6982I presume: of course not! They wouldn't have believed him! He had surely to state the "book values" as advertised by the French, lest he be tortured for attempting to deceive his interrogators😂
Cyrano did work but had teething problems because it really was ahead of its time , they figured it out with the mirage f1.
Lol
Your production is in a rare league. The depth of investigation and historical research is most appreciated. Your viewers might appreciate a follow- up on Giora Epstien as much as I would. Likely, not to be 'bested', ever in Air to Air combat.
I known the channel is about air to air combat (it's in the name after all) but I'd love to see a video on the technology that enabled aircraft to turn into truly multirole fighters. You always hear in interviews from the 80s with pilots of the F-18 about how all they had to do was "flip a switch" to go from air to air to air to ground (lots of "to's" in that sentence!).
It obviously took serious technological advancements to make that possible but I haven't ever seen that topic covered on any aviation channel. And since you've done a great job covering the history of aviation tech (the advancement of the Sidewinder comes to mind) I figured I'd ask.
Keep up the great videos; I watch them on my lunch breaks on Fridays and it's a great herald of the weekend!
I like that idea. I remember the 'switch flip'! I'm guessing it must be something to do with the radar and sighting system? I know that in the F-105 there was a slightly convoluted process to get the gunsight from air-to-ground to air-to-air modes. If I'm remembering right it took something like 15 seconds to do. Many of the engagements between Thuds and MiG-17s therefore happened with the former unable to hit anything because the sight was programmed for strafing.
@@notapound I had no idea they had a sort of dual role system that went back as far as the century series. I sort of just figured it came about from 1) the lessons from Vietnam and 2) with the increase in computing power and its subsequent miniaturization.
In any case, can't wait for next week's video. Also, this week's video on the Mirage III was a treat; the Mirage 2000 has always been one of my favorite aircraft, therefore I have a great appreciation for its antecedent.
@@notapound Coming from DCS - in the F-18 it's fairly straightforward. The cockpit has an actual "switch" next to the master arm that you can select in either a/a, a/g, or unselected modes (which is just for navigation), and doing so just configures the avionics for you. The a2a mode by default shows the radar on the displays (in a2a mode), the a2g mode shows your a2g weapons and targeting systems (by default, the radar in a2g mode), and otherwise the displays show navigation information. You then push a couple more buttons on the displays and/or stick (say, to pick the kind of missile you want to fire) and you're ready to go.
By comparison, in e.g. an F-5 you would have to adjust your sight, then select the right weapon stations, and then select the armament switches - and all that is for far simpler weapons than the F-18.
@jona.scholt4362 Did you know they originally planned to make two Hornet variants, an F-18 and an A-18, but the advancements in software technology allowed them to have all the complex nav/attack equipment that took up huge amounts of space and weight in the days of vacuum tubes. With the integrated circuit revolution, they were able to implement it all in software, and thus having all the nav/attack capability didn't take up all that weight they'd feared would weigh down the air to air variant.
So the computer revolution permitted them to merge them with a single F/A-18 (before that they had separate air to air and ground attack, like F-8 and F-4 and also A-6 for attack). The Hornet was a real revolution in having a single fighter aircraft type on the deck.
Would love a video about that though I know this chan is more about the first half of the cold War aviation (with all that marvelous archival footage).
@@notapound Speaking of.. can't tell you how much I appreciate someone taking the time to hunt down archival footage rather than just using CGI
One slight point you missed, the french navy , air force an army participated in the Korean conflict , in a limited fashion being involved in the indo china wars . The French participation is reflected in the formation of a battalion composed solely of volunteers, the French Battalion of the UN (BF/ONU). 1,034 volunteers landed in Pusan in November 1950. Three battalions followed from November 1950 to November 1953, the date of the withdrawal of French troops from Korea.
TIL,
Merci Beaucoup
The French Battalion was a strong battalion which fought with great honor in a number of hard fought battles during the Korean War, among which:
Wonju (2d battle-Hill 247, 9-12.01.’51) ;
Twin Tunnels (1-2.02.’51) ;
Chipyong-ni (13-16.02.’51) ;
Heartbreak ridge (22.09-15.10.’51).
Accounting for reinforcements & replacement of losses, 3'421 soldiers have served in the battalion, which has registered 299 KIA & MIA, 12 POW and 1'350 wounded. __ .
@@bfc3057I was perhaps not clear, it was the Korean involvement which was limited compared to French actions in Indochina.
Good video. One anecdote about Mirage III, the Phanton and Danni Shapira:
Danni the Israeli test pilot mentioned in the video was the 1st Israeli to test-fly the F-4 Phantom in the US (not sure which model, but it was USAF one). He was impressed by the beast, but as they climbed down the American instructor who was in the back seat asked Danni what he thought of the Phantom, and Danni without a shred of diplomacy immediately answered: "In a dogfight, I'd rather be in a Mirage"...
One comments, the Mirage V (and Nesher) was not larger than the Mirage III and was heavier mostly due to extra internal fuel - it has the same fuselage, wings and engine, and all modifications were internal. By IDF/AF requests Dassault removed all the nonsense from the Mirage III and rearranged its internals to have a range-finder instead of radar, an extra fuel tank and more hardpoints for AG munitions.
Mirage III was fantastic in almost all aspects, the main reason it was rejected by NATO to replace the F-84 and F-86 as their new standard fighter for the European airforces (the bribes issued by Lockheed were another reason) was that its systems were impossible to integrate with standard NATO radios and weapons, making it way too expensive and time consuming to adopt the type.
Israel of course didn't really have that problem as they were already using mostly French equipment, and had the reverse problem when adopting the F-4 and A-4 into their armouries, needing to set up entirely parallel systems for logistics, training, and everything else until the older French aircraft were retired fully, something they did because they were forced to by the French arms embargo rather than because they wanted to.
Lockheed hadn’t any issue using bribery to promote foreign sales. To be fair Lockheed wasn’t the only corporation using bribery.
F4 was also just better and built in serious numbers.
@@joelbilly1355 …. Except in air too air combat the Mirage doesn’t compare to the Phantom
@@Idahoguy10157 struggled against a subsonic ground support aircraft
Would love to see a video on the Kfir. The finale to the Mirage 3/5 saga that improved a lot of its shortcomings.
A lot of people don't realize that even the US bought some Kfirs to use for dissimilar air combat training at Top Gun. They were called the F-21 there and had some pretty nice camo schemes applied. The Kfirs still serve in a few air forces in South America and Sri Lanka iirc.
And South Africa’s Cheetah
Yes let's see that
The Swiss Mirage IIIS were the only ones with Hughes Taran Radar and Sparrow Missiles. Plus the installations to drop nuclear bombs, but as the swiss nuclear program was shelved never used.
I am pretty sure that the Swiss Mirages used the enlarged and radar guided version of the AIM-4 Falcon, the AIM-26B and not the Sparrow.
@@aegeanphantom Your right I mixed them up. Falcon is a better name than Sparrow anyway
The Swiss nuclear program was never shelved. Russian spy Brigadier Jeanmaire spilled the beans. He was under supervision. He was my neighbour.
@@felixtheswissbut a worst missile
Any chance of a MiG-23 video? It’s a desperately misunderstood fighter by most and has a combat record most are surprisingly unaware of, in addition to just being cool a hell
Possibly the worst excrescence of the Soviet fighter programme, with even worse reliability that the 19, could not turn to save its life, only four hardpoints, and based largely on stolen Western ideas. Genuinely bad.
agreed,
after leaning about how Soviet "top gun" pilots were able to outfly the MiG-27 in their '23s I am very keen to learn more about their operational history
I’d love to see that video, as I have always known the Mig 23 to be a very poor and unimpressive performer in combat.
According to the USAF and USN test pilots that flew all the USSR fighters in an extensive secret operation the MIG-23 was one of the fastest, deadliest and most difficult to control. While very fast it could kill you just trying to slow down.
Thanks for this video which is the most comprehensive I've seen so far about the Mirage III in English language.
I have a problem though with considering the Mirage III as "deeply flawed aircraft". I don't see how an airframe with such development potential, going from Mirage IIIC to upgraded Mirage 50s or Cheetah C for the Israeli/South African branch could be seen as something deeply flawed (and being replaced only just nowadays in Pakistan). Sorry but all that lineage shows how adaptable and well designed the airframe was from the beginning.
Something deeply flawed on the Mirage III was some of the equipments, radar and targeting system mainly as you pointed out. But problems were common on almost all first generation supersonic fighters of the time. It was a time of very early electronics to be used in hostile environment, and everything had to be invented and ironed out.
If one as to compare the first versions of each of these "iconic" supersonic fighters, still the Mirage IIIC (which was the first version in service) did superbly well.
So as much as IDF-AF did to iron out Mirage IIIC "youth problems" ( that they would have had to do with any other very new generation fighter entering service ), they were also very lucky Dassault designed such a good and adaptable airframe.
One bad luck that turned good in retrospect for the Mirage was that France had poor jet engines at the time. The ATAR 9B was a weak engine compare to what the US or GB could field for their first gen bi-sonic fighters. Was a weak engine, but the same after his youth problems found (the fuel pump you mention), quite reliable because very simple.
Mirage III had to rely to that boost rocket pack to be the acceptable interceptor that Fr AF wanted, and Dassault had to design an airframe that could make good of the poor ATAR 9B… Which in turn made the Mirage a very adaptable airframe, to something else than interceptor.
Anyway, I sometime feel it pi**s off a lot of people that such a famous plane as the Mirage IIIC is French, to the point that the story told is usually how the Israelis almost "did" the Mirage. reading comments here confirm my feelings. For sure, they made it famous and were the first combat users (thus first to find her youth problems).
If I may add, IDF-AF also used it as a fighter-bomber very successfully, many of the strikes on Egyptians airfields at the six days war start were done by Mirage IIICJ loaded with bombs.
Also you mention the upgrades, at one point the engine was changed from ATAR 9B to ATAR 9C, same engine as on the Mirage 5/Nesher, with increased power and reliability.
Sorry for the long post. Thanks again for this vid on a fav of mine.
I think that's fair comment. The airframe was excellent. The cannons were good. Most of the rest of the aircraft had significant flaws as delivered though. They reached very far in one package, as the US also had a tendency to do with its interceptors. And, as you say, it led to a line of successful aircraft. One can't really say that about the F-106 or Lightning.
I also think that the Mystere and Super Mystere are rather under-appreciated because they weren't widely exported. I'm planning a comparison between the Sabre Hog, MiG-17 and Mystere and another between the 'supers' - Super Sabre, Super Mystere and MiG-19.
Very good, especially the ''it was French so let's put Israel as the big user'' theme, my exact point of view after years and years in english speaking forums, etc...
The Atar engine was basically developed by german engineers suborned by the French after WW2, but they were well compensated for their efforts compared to their former colleagues in the USSR. It is interesting that the French managed to retain the service of former german turbine engineers but lost the tank engine expertise back to Daimler Benz in the 50s due to the Leopard tank
The first version was but there was 100 engineers in the project and after that all the next atar engine was completly different.
Just some clarification if I may:
00:57: "although France was not involved in the Korean war ..." this is not true. Indeed the Korean war was an intervention under a UN mandate so that about 20 countries were involved, not only the US although they were obviously the most numerous.
France sent a Battalion in Korea (about 1000 men initially, named "Bataillon de Corée") integrated in the 2nd US Infantry Division. This unit fought in the Korean war from November 1950 till the end, participating in all the main battles from Wonju to the Twin Tunnels battle, , Chipyong-ni and Crèvecœur (Battle of Heartbreak Ridge). They had 270 KIA and 1350 wounded. They left UN forces on October 23rd, 1953 and they embarked in Incheon for ... Indochina.
The ease with which the Americans can forget their allies still surprises me!
I have a counterexample:
In 1942 it was decided to send a French unit to ... the Soviet Union to fight the Germans. As France was not in a strong position at the time, to say the least, they sent volunteer pilots to establish a French squadron fighting over the Eastern Front. This was enthusiastically accepted by the USSR and eventually a squadron was created, named GC3 Normandie (GC stands for Groupe de Chasse = Fighter Group or so). They were flying Yak-1 fighters intially and Yak-3 later on.
They flew more than 5000 war missions and they ended the war being the 2nd most efficient and decorated squadron within all Soviet forces. After the battle of the Niemen in November 1944, they were awarded the honor to bear the name "Niemen". From then the squadron was named "Normandie-Niemen". The last reward they got was to fly back to France with "their" aircrafts as a present not to mention that 3 pilots who survived the war were awarded "Heroes of the Soviet Union" ... Pretty amazing, isn't it?
In Russia, to this day, the history of this squadron is more famous than in France itself: it is described as one of the "striking facts of WWII", in books and TV, many museums are dedicated to this squadron and several schools bear its name. Russian people still bring flowers to the graves of the pilots who are buried in Moscow.
In comparison to the forgotten 1000 soldiers of the French Battalion in Korea ... I mean, I'm just saying ...
For information in case somebody is interested:
ruclips.net/video/wBJgS5mKy4g/видео.html&ab_channel=ILoveDocs
ruclips.net/video/E68HtWvyeN4/видео.html&ab_channel=RusVitulina
The Normandie-Niemen squadron still exists: they are located in South-West France and fly the Rafale. For the record, they flew, among others, the F6F-5 Hellcat in Indochina, the SO-4050 Vautour (a twin-engine bomber) in the 60's, the Mirage F1C (C meaning fighter) and now the Rafale but ... they never flew the Mirage III.
10:30: the Mirage IV was not designed for multi-role missions but as a nuclear "strategic" bomber, the only strategic bomber France ever had btw. It was replaced in its nuclear mission by the ballistic missiles and from then it became a strategic reconnaissance aircraft until it was decommissioned but it has never been designed or used for ground support missions.
Regards
This video, made by someone from the UK is "Americans forgetting their allies"? As you pointed out, this also was a UN action, not just a US one. The French inferiority complex towards the US is something.
@@chickenfishhybrid44The French participated in the Korean war, saying otherwise is just factually incorrect, not much to do with any complex. It's about being historically and factually correct.
Um this guy is not American...he's British.
Love the video! Very professionally produced. Be advised though that the audiovolume seems a bit jumpy?
Yep - I had real problems with my setup on this one. I have no real idea why because I did exactly the same as the previous 10 vids. Must be narrator error! Thanks for the comment and really glad you enjoyed the video :)
Brings back memories of watching "The Aeronauts" as a kid on British TV 🙂
I remember watching that on Saturday morning. Along with the flashing blade and the crusader one.
France had a small contingent fighting during the Korean War. Busy in Indochina, it was merely 3000 men.
I just realized that the Cyrano radar was probably named after Cyrano de Bergerac who suffered from a large nose ;)
Think about it, 15 years after WW2, we have this plane, its just so amazing.
Help from the nazi alian after Germany lost.
@@jerryrichards8172 US and Russian have used German scientist also
You really are top drawer. It is SO appreciated that your photos, video, and graphs EXACTLY match the narration at the time.
Anyone interested in the relative performance qualities of the Mirage III vs the later MiG-21 variants should read comments by former Australian fighter pilot Phil ‘Frawls’ Frawley. A former Mirage and F/A-18 pilot and instructor and once billed as ‘the world’s oldest fighter pilot’, Frawley also has extensive experience flying a late model 2 -seat MiG-21 in airshows in the 1990s. His conclusion was that the MiG-21 was a much better aircraft than western pilots believed and in good hands was a very dangerous opponent.
The critical differences between the two types were largely insignificant at a technical or spec sheet level and the success of the Mirage seems to have been born of training and general competence of Mirage crews over their opponents. That said, the Mirage undoubtedly deserves more recognition in a world dominated by a lot of American ballyhoo about who builds the best aircraft.
Can you do a video of either the f 14 in iranian service during the iran-iraq War or the Mirage f1 in the iraqi Air Force during the iran-iraq War?
Amazing archive and work.
France wasn't "very" involve in the Korean war because it was involve with the Indochina war at the time but it still was part of the UN corps. A few thousand french fight in Korea with several hundred KIA and a 1000 WIA.
The automated gunsight story is really interesting; supposedly Dassault tried the same thing with the Rafale, and despite that aircraft being so much more modern they *still* couldn't quite get it to work.
lmao
French momente.
Although that's pretty insane considering we've got optical tracking now
and even some light tanks (ie: CV90) can auto-lead their massive guns against aircraft
Man those super sabers have radar guided automatic gunsights quite advance to thier time.
Are you sure about this ? The radar guided gunsight in the mirage 2000C supposedly works well from what I've heard, it would be quite shocking if that wasn't the case on the rafale.
Excellent video. An interesting coda might have been a look at Pakistan's number 5 squadron using Mirage III E in the 1971 war. The PAF must have encountered many of the same challenges with the aircraft and I have to wonder how they tackled them. In any event, from what I can tell, the PAF may have used the Mirage much more for strike missions since most of the air to air fighting I've read about involved mostly the F-86 and F-6 (on rare occasions the F104 chipped in.)
Sir if I remember correctly, under US pressure, French Govt could not deliver critical equipment for the Mirages to Pakistan Air Force which greatly effected its attack role in 1971 air war with India.
@@SajidKhan-mf8ts there is a reason india doesn't trust the usa
Could you make a video on early air-to-air refueling?
I like that idea, so yes!
France embargoed Mirage soon after the 6 day war. France then lost their best sales pitch for Mirages. A few years later Israel had the F 16 which was a Mig killer and a Mirage sales killer.
The Mirage III and Mirage F1 were the backbone of the South African Airforce in their border war in the 1970s and 1980s. The two Mirages reigned supreme up until Russia introduced the Mig 23 into the battle.
@@bfc3057 Exactly. Thank you.
@@bfc3057 There were definitely some Russians running about in Angola then....and obviously he's referring to the USSR when he says 'Russians'.
The USSR directly supplied FAPLA (the 'People's Armed Forces of Liberation of Angola') and also supplied military advisors (ie. Soviet military personnel in direct support/training of Angolan units, in country) - these (domestic Angolan) units engaged the SADF in combat under Soviet command by Soviet troops in some cases, and Soviet troops were indeed recorded as being killed/captured during the Border War.
I'm not sure why you're saying that they weren't involved - the history of the USSR being directly involved, including the deployment of military personnel is very clear.
In the book Blood Song South African mercenary pilots write about their experiences flying the MIG23 in Angola for the mercenary group Executive Outcomed.
I got to fight against Kfirs. They were very cool looking and similar in performance to the F-5.
Another outstanding video. Thank you.
If you don't mind me asking, where at? I know some of them were used at FWS in the US for a short time.
@@jameshall1300 R-2507, north of Yuma.
@@brianrmc1963 that's pretty cool. I've always been a fan of the Kfirs, but didn't realize they were used by the US until a couple years ago.
@@jameshall1300 Wikipedia is pretty accurate. They were leased to VMFAT-401, our Marine aggressor squadron.
Such a beautiful aircraft, the French took the delta to a fine art.
Nice work. Your channel has been rapidly elevated to a top tier production.
Extremely unbaised and informative video. As a military aviation enthusiast, I really appreciate your hard work. just wondering, what software(s) are you using to make these amazing videos ?
Also the accomplishments of the French aviation industry postwar are totally under appreciated in english speaking media. They managed to match or in many cases out do the british with a lot less political fuss
Political fuss? I'd say French relations with its Anglo allies and their systems were a little raucous at times (also why France still has a domestic aerospace industry).
Excellent video, well researched and wonderfully narrated. Thank you !
15:17 The 20mm M39 or T160 was based on the Mauser MG 213 and was designed by Ford Motor Company and was produced by Pontiac, Ford, FMC Corporation and other, not Browning. I think you confused it with the M3 Browning.
Thanks. I got myself confused in the rush to finish this edit!
Another great video, thank you! Just a small criticism: I think by the time you got to the third: "IDF/IAF" we got the idea that this is the ISRAELI Air Force you're talking about and not the INDIAN Air Force....
The Mirage 5's was delivered as per contract. No bullshit story! Politics and money don't mix!
Belle vidéo merci, il ne faut pas négliger l'extraordinaire taux de disponibilité de ce Mirage 3 pendant ces guerres! un avion fabuleux et solide sur tous les plans!
The J35A Draken used a lot of Mirage III avionics because the Swedish electronics industry was not ready to deliver systems until the J35B/D
Swiss Mirage's did used the Hughes weapons system which the Draken also used, and to be frank two underslung AIM-26B missiles looks way better on the mirage than the single radar missile normally used.
If it helps the PS-02 radar in the "A" Draken seemed to have the French designation "CSF-4878"
also.... a doc about Sustained and instantaneous turn rate would be great... and dog fight tatics ( one circle, two circle, scissors etc..)
A very good video. Thank you.
A small correction about the notion that the Mirage 3 was "colloquially known" as Shahak in Israel.
The name Shahak,as all of the Hebrew code names assigned to IDF/AF aircraft of the period,was classified at the time and wasn't known to the general public.
To the Israeli public,it was colloquially known simply as "Mirage".
The IDF/AF assigned Hebrew code names,rather than nicknames,to its aircraft out of OPSEC considerations and these names were not meant for public consumption and remained secret for many years only to be revealed much later in the aircraft's career or only after its retirement.
The code name Shahak remained classified throughout the Mirage's service career and remained so for another decade after its retirement. Shahak was revealed as the code name for the Mirage 3 in Israeli service only in the early 1990's.
It had more kills than a lot of fighters and mor than than the F4, F16 and F15.
"The ballast offered better performance and reliability" 😂 good one.
Another great Friday video! This channel is flying into the upper echelon of aviation channels.
1 mrad is 1m @1000m
So 6 mrad @ 700m is a 4.2m dispersion
The SAAB 35 Draken hit Mach 2 in January 1960. So a little over a year later than the Mirage 3. Still, impressive for a tiny country like Sweden. And the Draken reached Mach 2 without moveable intake cones, used by the Mirage. The mice, peeking out of their hiding holes. Les souris. I'm Swedish, so I like SAAB and the Draken. But that also makes me appreciate how brilliant the Mirage 3 was! France was not in a good shape after World War 2, so creating this was impressive!
Mirage 3 is one of the most beautiful jet aircrafts, after Draken. I’m Swedish so I’m of course biased! 😉
I remember as a kid reading French comics about the Mirage III that was translated to Swedish. Maybe that’s why I’m always been fascinated about the fighter jet.
Another great video boss
The Israeli Airforce and South African Airforce collaborated in their use and development of the Mirage III.
This air craft was blasted in the air by Pakistani pilot sattar Alvi flying mig 21of Syrian air force in 1974.the flying suit of captain Lutz is on displayat PAF museum Karachi.
The EE Lighting first exceeded Mach 2 on 25th November 1957 nearly a year before the the French. Not as claimed in this video.
25 November 1958. The Mirage beat it by a month, according to the Wiki Lightning article.
France significantly under quoted The Mirage when selling it to Australia,
It mistakenly assumed the Australian Pound was equivalent to the British Currency.
Yeah right🙄
An engrossing piece of longform content. The 45 minutes flew by. Very informative and brought out some things I wasn't aware of and a better focus of things I was. Two things I'd point out, that 37mm Russian cannon was a slow firing beast, and the canopy glass of the Korean era Migs was optically awful. Whether that was ever adressed; I've no idea.
Making the best of what you have and then making it better is my experience in supporting the Israeli defence industry in my previous line of work. Excellent deep dive and thoroughly enjoyable historical overview! Thank you for sharing your passion!! שלום
Nothing came close in an air superiority fighter that could also carry a decent bomb load. The RAAF used them right up till they changed to the FA-18. Mach 2.2, 56,000 ft ceiling and 8,800 lbs of bombs.
40:22 the FL and PFM were by no means flawed. In fact, they were some of the best versions of the MiG-21 produced, and their combat record in the hands of Indian and Vietnamese pilots will attest to that. What was flawed were the K-13 IR missiles (which were too sensitive to heat and didn't work in desert environments) and Arab pilot training (no comment needed).
Interesting fighter, RAAF were excited to fly this advanced jet moving from F86, USA F104 was too expensive n wasn’t multi role. For RAAF they did experience Mirage with been you needed full consecration especially at night n bad weather in the rain due cockpit glass design. Interesting fact the Mirage struggle cover Australia areas as it small air time even with external tanks. When F18 arrived this would suit what RAAF was looking for.
The Australians turned down the Starfighter for a number of reasons, but cost probably wasn't one of them. The Mirage cost them around $1.9m a copy. The F-104G (a multi-role fighter) was around $1.4m.
I always thought the Kfir was an absolute beauty.
The Mirage was a fairly basic fighter that sold well to the third world, equivalent to the MiG-21 and Lockheed F-104 Starfighter. The French missiles R511 and R530 that it used were really poor.
Another superb video from you!. Enjoyed it a lot. Congratulations
really nice- ty
Note: the Viper jet engine was designed for target drones and jet powered missiles. It worked very well in the Strikemaster which turned a probable defeat into a resounding win for the BATT at Mirbat in 1972.
It was an Israeli product to begin with , aircraft producer Bloch was renamed Dassault
Bloch / Dassault was a proud Frenchman.
Marcel Dassault did not even have the Israeli nationality, stop spewing bullshit.
Armée de l'Air.. Launching themselves into low earth orbit..
Unquestionably the best aviation comic out there lol
By the way, love the French mostly 😁
Fantastic presentation. "Not A Pound For Air To Ground" delivers the best military aviation content on youtube. This channel deserves to be a lot more popular than it is.
Ian over on forgotten weapons had a delightful comment. The french imitate nobody, and nobody imitates the french. And thats ok. But what a plane!
Most people don’t like to study is really military history because he keeps on running into miracles and supernatural things that can’t be explained by physical methods. You keep on seeing the hand of God directly take action, and you have to wonder why and how even happened unless you understand that it’s God, I believe it was Ariel Sharon, who said that anyone in Israel who doesn’t believe in miracles is not a realist.
@0:58 "France wasn't involved in the korean war."
French pilots ? I dunno.
There was french troops send to Korea.
They had some actions in the twin tunnels battle.
Something's up with your sound, especially noticeable between 12:23 and 12:25. Some kind of ambient noise suppression?
Am I the only one who wondered how it stacked up against the F-102?
The F106 is an interesting comparison too. Maybe the world needs an F106, Lightning, Mirage showdown video...
@@notapoundI raw performance, the F-106 would eat the Mirage III's lunch, though a turning fight and relative missile quality should even the odds a lot. There's also the guns--and lack thereof...
Top 5 aviation channel ! More on reccce flights...
The Israelis certainly put the Mirage III on the map and turned it into a serial killer. They made it look easy. But it wasn't. The Mirage III was incredibly difficult to master, but once mastered, turned into a thoroughbred. Col. Martin Louw is an iconic member and leader of the South African Air Force (SAAF) fighter pilot community. He had this to say getting to grips with the "strykyster" - an Afrikaans moniker for the "clothing iron" ascribed to the fighter's delta wing - as a fledgling fighter pilot in the late 70s:
ruclips.net/video/E6QHi-d34cw/видео.html
Cyrano is pronounced with the emphasis on the first syllable, after Cyrano de Bergerac, who was famed for the size of his nose.
It wasn't the most successful of the cold war. Both the f15 and the f14 came put of the cold war.
A retrospective shudder at the thought
that France relied for years on the Cyrano II and Matra R 530 for its air cover. 😜
Great Doc!! mig-21and chinese versions, mig-23, Su-25, F-5 and cold war planes pleaaaasssse!
F5 and MiG-23 are definitely on the list. SU-25. That's a target, no? :)
@@notapoundIts actually arguably better that the A10, Better payload and better armor.
Please tell me that The Mirage was not a copy of the Delta Dagger but a coincidental result of French research.
Bonjour , merci d'avoir montré les vidéos d'archives de l'esssayeur de Dassault , Constantin Rosanov , un des meilleurs pilote d'essai de l'époque et qui a participé à la mise au point de nombreux avions . Il était d'ailleurs pilote de chasse pendant WW2 .
Au revoir .
France was part of the Corean War, we didn't get mig info magicaly through the americans
Nicely done! It's easy to find videos that do a solid job analyzing US aircraft and, to a slightly lesser extent, Soviet aircraft and British aircraft. With French and other European countries' aircraft, it is a much tougher proposition as most of the videos simply recount the usually flawed data available on Wikipedia. So, thank you for the fantastic job researching your subject as part of a proper analysis prior to making the video!
A great vid. I wish there were more stories from the other side though. But I guess less free regimes are less chatty 🧐
Lopez Nancy Martinez Brenda Thompson Frank
To me the IIIE is still (one of) the most elegant fighter aircraft from the Cold War.
the french would sell the mirage to anyone.... or it appears they did
Wrong. France fought in the Korean War alongside other contingents.
I really really like the camouflage pattern the guy is wearing @ 41:54 in the video.
Hungarian M1949 pattern if I am not mistaken. It sure looks cool.
I'm the 29th guy to push the thumbs up button.
👍
The BOAC Lightning could take it down
I absolutely love your presentations, and really appreciate the work you put in to these. And I also really appreciate how you just get right in to the topic. There isn't 7 minutes of commercial reads, sponsor or social media plugs, giveaways, etc that I have to scrub through just to get to the actual video. The only thing I'd have to say needs an improvement would be with your audio. More specifically your voice over. You need either, or a combination of a different microphone, or just perhaps some different settings in the audio mix/balance in post. Not sure what you use for editing, but I'm pretty sure that most of the big editing suites like Premiere have options for balancing volume. The issue is that some of your enunciations peak out louder, and some dip so low that it's difficult to tell what you're saying sometimes. It's not really an issue on headphones, or if my volume is really loud, but on normal or lower volume, it's an issue that rears it's head quite often. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can give you better information on this, but I'm almost certain that there's some kind of balancing or regulating option in your editor of choice. A quick toggle on would probably do the trick. That one issue of audio balance aside, there's no one better making content like this. Even the Dark Docs guy with all his sub counts and big budget. So much of his information is either wrong, or just really surface level wikipedia stuff. Many of his reference images and video clips have nothing to do with the topic, it's just footage for the sake of having some motion to appease the lowest common denominator. Your research and presentations are just better than the vast majority of others in the field. Regardless of their sub counts, budget or funding status.
Anyhow, thank you for the many hours it must take you to make these for us, and I
most sincerely wish you well. ^_^
F-104 better known as "The Widow Maker."
I think another case for superior training and gci was the Somali-Ethiopian border clashes with MiGs taking on F-5s. Although a smaller instance still a similar line events.
I am curious that there is so little love for the Mig-19, I was under the impression that they were well liked by the Pakistan Air Force, with their admittedly Chinese built aircraft. "In dogfighting it is impossible to pull violent manoeuvres except at modest speeds below 500 mph. Thus the extra speed of the Mig-21, F-104 and Mirage was not used. On the other hand the older Mig-19 scored heavily, with its robust structure, good manoeuvrability and hard-hitting large-calibre guns, with very much greater propellant charge than the ammunition for the equal-calibre (30 mm) guns of the Mirage. Extracted from War Planes 1944-1976 a Purnell's History of the World Wars Special costing all of £0.65 back in 1975 - discussing the Indian and Pakistan conflicts.
Thanks for the comment. I need to do more research. My impression from reading the Arab pilots' views is that it wasn't much for turning, so it didn't really have much of a chance against the Mirage or the Super Mystere. That said, it does appear to have outrageous thrust to weight and the cannons put down a faintly ridiculous amount of fire.
I have a load of books on it now, so I'll get to a proper analysis of it.
I look forward to hearing your conclusions and congratulations on another excellent video!
555th pilots during Linebacker regarded the -19 as a particularly challenging opponent. There weren't many present and even fewer kills.
It's always been a sleeper favorite of mine.
MiG-19's greatest weakness was a combination of small internal fuel capacity and inefficient engines. In short, the range and endurance were poor, especially if afterburners were used.
Why do you always say "IDAF-AF"? There's only one A.
I had no idea _any version_ of the _Mirage_ was designed with a rocket engine.
The French have been at the forefront of aviation since its inception.
Great video!! is there going to be a follow up on the kfir ?
Thanks :). I would like to do that and managed to collect the materials… might take me a while though as I really want to make something on the Mystere/ Super Mystere.
France was involved in Korean War, albeit in a limited way
And let's not forget the IAF being heavily emphasizing on guns kills even in the Mirage 3. In fact the Shafrir missile was just as bad as the AIM-9Bs in Vietnam.
Who remembers the Mirage III from the comic Mick Tangy, (with his friend Rene Dupont - at least that were the names in the german comic magazine ZACK) from their youth?
And as a thought of Michel Vaillant as well (with his friend Steve Warson), another french comic from ZACK, I now learned that the name was chosen in honour of Carl Benz, builder of the first automobile, whose original birth name is Karl Friedrich Michael Vaillant.
I learned something new today - thanks.