Being able to take off from USS Saipan, an Independence class light carrier (not an escort carrier), was impressive. Those ships were small, roughly 1/3 the displacement of an Essex class carrier, with corresponding smaller dimensions.
That incredible advancement continued up thru the A-12/SR-71. Then the fascination with radar cross sections, and then back to unusual propulsion systems. Future history will show the 90's and early 00's were very interesting indeed.
if you have read Tex Johnston's book, they were pretty much handed experimental aircraft and told to fly them as hard as they could to see what they could take. it does sound like it was a blast for them, if not incredibly dangerous.
I've never heard you before and to be honest, many Britsh commentators swallow their words and it is very hard to follow them. But you speak very clearly and have none of the British-speaking idiosyncrasies. Your motherly speaking of the Phantom is very refreshing since many talk of the older planes by pointing out all of their shortcomings. I think you did a very good job of proving that the Phantom was the grandfather of the jet carrier-based fighter. I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation. BTW, I flew the follow on F4 Phantom and loved every minute of it!
@rudy "Many British commentators swallow their words". British speakers speak through their open mouths unlike Americans who speak through their nose giving a gawd awful accent which makes me turn off the channel. Swallow their words INDEED !!
Pound, I really enjoy all your analysis of aviation history subjects. I would really look forward to you covering the Iran vs Iraq war. So many interesting morsels of information including an alleged helo vs helo kill. Thank you for being so balanced and thorough. Love your work.
5:55 "The tricycle landing gear was possible because there was no propeller needing ground clearance." The P-38, P-39, F7F, and others would call that preposterous. What kept a nosewheel off most prop fighters was inconvenience of the nose mounted engine.
Hello, another excellent video. Concerning the Bearcat vs Phantom climb rate, those numbers most likely reflect the initial climb rates for those aircraft. A better climb rate comparison would be times to 10,000’, 20,000’, or even up to 30,000’. While the Bearcat had a great climb rate by virtue of its light weight and powerful engine, I suspect this was primarily at low altitudes and the Phantom exceeded the Bearcat’s climb performance as altitude (and also speeds increased). There’s a great report of a Pax River fly off test available somewhere online that compares a Bearcat(?) vs a P-80 made in the late ‘40s or early ‘50s that clearly shows the advantages of jet powered aircraft. Much of the advantage comes from a jet’s ramjet effect…as speed increased, so did the engine’s power output, whereas a prop’s power is limited and decreased at high speeds. If I can find it, I may post it here.
The saying, "it is what it is", really applies well here. The FH-1 was the plane the US navy wanted and it gave them what they needed at that exact moment in time...experience flying off and landing jet aircraft from carriers. This was something nothing else could have done at that time. Yes later better faster planes came along but that wasn't for another 2 years or more. How many naval aviators were trained on those 60 jets for take off and landing at a time when nobody else in the world could do that or even had a jet plane capable of realistically flying off carriers ? Not the Brits not the Russians not anyone else. A 2 year head start and it was all because of this little plane.
Whoops, South Vietnamese at 17:05. Still a great video on a mostly for feasibility reasons, why the navy adopted this aircraft. By 1954 McDonnell already had stirrings of the Phantom II. Says a lot about the jet age.
Great job of highlighting the growing pains that the Navy had switching to jets for carrier duty. USN aircraft were very comparable, in performance, to Army Air Corp aircraft during WWII with the early Wildcat, Hellcat and Corsair being similar, in performance, to the P-40, P-47 and P-51. Not initially the case when switching to jets. This did carry into the Korean conflict as well. The video doesn’t mention this, but the F8F Bearcat did not see any combat action in WWII. Otherwise, great video.
If the Nukes weren't drop on Japan. We could see early jets like the F-84,F-86, F9F Panther and F-2H Banshee going up against Kikka(Japanese version of ME262) and Shinden.
Japan wouldn't have had enough fuel, intact runways, qualified ground crews, or working factories to keep them supplied at that point. The firebombing raids only started in 45, and were soon followed by the two nukes. Remember how much bombing we did before we went in on the ground in Desert Storm? The same thing would happen then, especially with the kamikaze threat.
I bet it was indeed a nice plane to fly once it was airborne because it looks like there's a lot of wing area btw I think its kinda sus that they list bearcat speed as 455 mph I've seen more like 435 mph they must have pushed the plane very hard and made it very light to get to 455
Why tip tanks? These were a common feature of many American Gen-1 turbojet fighters, starting with the production versions of the Lockheed P-80. (The YP-80 didn't have them.) Obviously, the tanks improved range, but they weren't detachable in flight so there was a weight penalty when they were empty. I assume they served an aerodynamic purpose apart from the extra fuel they provided. They went out of fashion when swept wings became a standard feature. For example, the Navy's workhorse of the Korean War, the Grumman F9F Panther, had straight wings with tip tanks, but its swept-wing derivative, the Grumman F9F-6 Cougar, used conventional drop-tanks mounted on hardpoints much further inboard.
Tip tanks carry the least aerodynamic penalty, and IIRC were thought to actually decrease induced drag. The new jets weren't meant to be dogfighters, so the roll rate didn't matter all that much.
@@jirivorobel942 they thought that weren't going to have to dogfight until it was discovered that it was still necessary thus the founding of top gun....
Sorry to be pedantic, but the imaginary 1950 scenario seeing north Korea versus south Vietnam may have been a slip of the tongue ! Otherwise an excellent video which filled in several gaps in my knowledge of early jets !
you can imagine how futuristic those early Naval jet aviators must have felt operating this sleek, simple, and ground breaking aircraft. Maybe a bit similar to how pilots feel flying an F-35 for the first time. Simple controls, easy handling, massive jets of burning fuel and air propelling them to new heights and speeds. If only all naval aircraft of the early postwar period could live up to such expectations! It must have been a bit of a damper when the more dangerous and unstable fighters like the F-3H and F-7U presented themselves
I've read some accounts, and the piston-trained pilots were awed by the smoothness and relative quiet of those early jets, as well as the lack of torque and, of course, the ease of operation. Overall performance, though, was not as impressive.
Good video, as usual. 👍 Maybe you didn't notice just one tiny error: Min 16:57, "... and then on the 25th of june 1950 North Korean Forces launch a massive attack into the South, the "South Vietnamese" forces are swept aside..." I'm pretty sure that i don't need to explain the error to you. Keep doing this nice work! 😉
@@notapound>>> I had to repeat that bit of the video to make sure I heard that correctly. THAT SAID, a totally understandable mistake in an otherwise excellent video...👍
This is the best "run-down" video on a post war relatively unknown aircraft that I've ever seen. Normally, I'll watch a minute or so of the video and move on. This one kept me watching through to the end and the end time spent was well worth spending. The fight that never happened was a great what-if. Thanks.
Although rare, a landing plane accidentally spraying the air above the flight deck with machine gun fire did happen. The lockout when the arrestor hook was extended was wise.
It was a great first step. Also interesting is how the Phantom started the McDonnell tradition of mystical names and the overall layout of two wing-root mounted engines (the Demon being the unimpressive exception) and high mounted tailplanes. I thought it a bit ironic that the little upstart company eventually swallowed two of the early giants, Douglas and Boeing (though the merged companies are still under the Boeing name, the company came under the management influence of the McDonnell-Douglas team). Do you have an FJ Fury video in the works? That would be really interesting, since it was also the precursor of the F-86.
There was a lot of the Phantom's design that flowed into the later Banshee and somewhat into the later Demon, Voodoo, and Phantom II. The high mounted tailplane seems to be required when the exhaust exits the fuselage so far forward. I've always wondered why McDonnell kept that configuration for so long, instead of just moving the engine to the back of the fuselage (when using an afterburner) or using a tailpipe for the non-afterburning engines.
@@scootergeorge7089 There are always compromises, but the tailpipe seemed to be accepted in many aircraft. Curiously, the A-6 has engines embedded near the fuselage, somewhat similar to the Phantom I, but uses short tailpipes with curves in them. I was quite surprised the first time I noticed the curves!
@@allangibson8494 - Just because both were designed and built by North American Aviation, does not make the FJ a Mustang descendant. It was an adaptation of the Saber for carrier use.
Thanks! I should have checked. I'm starting out on the Banshee. It is a much more in-depth subject as there were so many versions. Really good fun to research though!
Keep these comming! You have a very good format here. I'm sure you get requests all the time, but would you consider delving into high performance research aircraft of post WW2? There were some pretty wild designs, and crazy stories. I'd be interested in what you can turn up.
Excellent installment! Regarding the Phantom's guns, this arrangement was not unlike that of the Lockheed Lightning sans the 20mm cannon. That aircraft was also employed as a night fighter, featuring flash suppressors. The .50s of the Lightning didn't have flash suppressors, that I recall, so it's interesting that the USN felt the .50s of the Phantom a problem. Go fig. Humble beginnings to greatness! Very well done!!
Thank you for the kind comment - it made my evening! And for the flash suppressor point :) - I'll have a little look and see if other types/ other nations also fitted those.
The 15 years or so from 1935 to around 1950 saw incredible changes in fighter aircraft. In 1935, biplanes armed with a couple of .30 caliber (or .303 or 7.7 mm) machine guns were still common. By 1950, swept-wing jet aircraft were becoming the norm, and the .50 caliber machine gun was giving was to 20 mm or 23 mm cannon, and air-air missiles were coming.
I'd move that swept-wing date a year or two forward. Both the MiG-15 and the F-86 were pretty radical in 1950. The first American experimental swept-wing prototype was the Northrop X-4 Bantam, which first flew in 1948. The X-4 took several design features from Me-163 Komet in that it was a semi-tailless design but with jet engines rather than a Walter rocket motor. The X-4 was expected to be supersonic, but transonic instability kept its top speed under 700 mph. The de Havilland DH.108 also followed the Komet's basic shape, but it proved even more unstable than the X-4. Consequently, straight wings and conventional tails persisted into the 1950s.
People often forget the less used aircraft that bridge the gap between technologies. The faster, more powerful and sometimes battle proven early stuff will get all the glory because they exceeded expectations. The FH-1 is a perfect example of being JUST good enough to prove the tech works on a carrier, and managed to be reliable enough to get that data quickly. Then when its replacements were "ready", the FH-1 was quickly kicked aside and forgotten about as the new hotness took over.
And often some truly monumental achievements that out paced their contemporaries by a wide margin are maligned. The P-38, F-104, F-35. Just to name Lockheed.
I think the reason that it gets little recognition is that it this type wasn't in service for very long. McDonnell was already at-work on it's replacement the "Banshee".
There is something about the straight wing jets that I find very appealing. One aspect of the design that I don't think you mention was its ability to "kneel" which was carried through into the early Banshee variants and I believe was supposed to aid in the "spotting" of the aircraft on the deck or in the hangar area. The Banshee also featured the same wing design of the Phantom. Great video, with some fabulous footage and photographs, thank you!
@@glitchedmatrix55 sorry I didn't see your question before now. No, the nose gear is retracted and a small supplementary pair of wheels are attached to the front of the nose. It allowed for the aircraft to be parked much closer together under the tail of the aircraft in front. I guess it wasn't particularly practical operationally, so never really used. If you search kneeling Phantom or Banshee you can find photos of the system being tested etc.
Land-based aircraft have superior flight characteristics as you can always get a carrier aircraft and remove the tail-hook, the wing-folding mechanisms, and remove some of the beefiness of the landing gear. This saves a few tons. What's remarkable is that carrier aircraft are competitive at all.
9:22 minutes, love the stories of the old marine flying sergeants. The last one retired in the early 70s, I believe as a Master Guns (e-9). A lot of people don’t know that the corps had enlisted pilots. Semper Fi.
I saw my first FH-1 in the San Diego aviation museum during 1972--before someone burned down the place. I was fascinated by the FH-1 and the Ryan FR-1 Fireball--another attempt to keep aircraft carrier aviation relevant in the jet age. The Phantom still had life as a photo-recon platform after it was replaced as a front-line fighter. Nice video. I liked this presentation. Despite the end of WW2 resulting in "no money" for development of the FH-1, getting sixty of these little jets (they are small when viewed in person) allowed the Navy to figure out how to operate jets from aircraft carriers and keep the jets working. The FH-1 formed the baseline carrier fighter jet for newer planes that entered service in the 1950's, especially in terms of service ceiling and combat radius. At high altitudes the piston engines suffered from oxygen starvation even with turbosuperchargers (jet engines were based on the turbosuperchargers in the early days). The FH-1 could out-perform the F8F Bearcat at altitude--until the Phantom ran out of fuel.
Oh good, I was starting to think I was alone in knowing about the Ryan FR Fireball. Really cool interim solution if a bit too fragile for repeated carrier landings.
I was hoping you would go into the Banshee, since it is an extension of the Phantom 1. There are so many fascinating Navy fighters from that period. It seemed like the lifespan of a fighter in the 1940-50s was only 5-10 years. Now with the maturity of designs today, a fighter might serve for 30-40 years. I think the only reason we are developing another Stealth Air Superiority fighter is because the F-22 is essentially a 2nd Gen stealth fighter, sort of like the early jets.
Despite it being a less popular and almost forgotten early jet I really like the FH-1 Phantom. Thanks for doing a mini documentary on it! Also loved the what if scenario between MiG-9s and FH-1s mixing it up in 1950 so cool!
I've known the FH Phantom for a while, as the pioneer of McDonnell line of aircraft (And one of Naval jets pioneer, as you said), but beside that, the data on this plane i can find was very scarce (maybe as scarce as MiG-9?), so, I really appreciate you for this!
The F8F-1 Bearcat had only four (4), 0.50 caliber heavy machine guns. The F8F-2 Bearcat had four (4), Hispano 20mm cannons. The Phantom's top speed was only 480 mph. As a first Navy jet, it was a good attempt. The US Navy was quick with higher-performance successor jets.
Comparing the early naval jets against the contemporary land-based jets is similar to the situation before WW2 when compating the equivalent piston-powered naval and land-based aircraft.
Agree. Adapting to jets was a lot like adapting to the all-metal monoplane in the environment where low-speed approaches is so critical. And the deck handling is so orchestrated in close quarters that I can see why the USN would be somewhat conservative and measured during adoption.
Sweet! Once again you have focussed on an aircraft that I've been interested in when I've seen photos of it or read/seen the snippets out there on it. But now I have some very interesting and well presented info to sink my teeth into. Your channel has quickly become one of my favorites, and I always look forward to your new vids. Keep up the great work!!!
I really love how fairly and objective you always evaluate aircraft, even those lesser known or having a bad calling. I really enjoyed this video. The Phantom should actually be way more famous than it is as the U.S. Navy's first jet fighter. It was also a really good-looking plane, compared to some other early jets.
My Daddy and Mom - The Soldier and the Mathematician in World War II My dad (Bob Brown) was in WW-II and was at Jefferson Barracks in St. Louis for basic training. My mother (Kathryn Nelson Brown) majored in math at the Georgia State College for Women. She joined my dad after they were married early in the war. It was in St. Louis that mom got a dream job at McDonnell Aircraft which had a “top secret project” to design and build the first jet plane to take off and land on an aircraft carrier. Mama assisted the engineers in performing math analysis that needed to be done and used a mechanical calculator to get the results the designers needed. On the drawing board and on its first three test flights the plane was called the experimental XFD-1. On July 19, 1946, during sea trials the XFD-1 made the first takeoff and landing by a US jet powered aircraft on a Navy carrier the USS Roosevelt CVC-42. In production, the plane became known as the FH-1 Phantom Fighter. Mama felt very proud to have played a small part in this important war effort. Mother’s story began to stir my interest in engineering and science. Bob Brown, Jr.
…but there’s no way you’re consistently getting an ME-262 down on a carrier deck. The general point is interesting though. I need to get more into the ME-262, in particular why no one decided to reverse engineer and improve on it.
@strategyfromtherightbrain Indeed that is so. Landing an Me 262 on a carrier would be an adventure. But though I may be wrong, I think you you said that US Navy fighters were equivalent to their land-based equivalents anywhere. The Corsair was a superb plane, about equal to the Spifires and Focke-Wulfs of 1944-45, and the best the Japanese were struggling to produce. But the 262 was a qualitative leap, was it not?
@notapound >>> *_"But the writing was on the wall for the piston engine as a viable propulsion for an air superiority fighter."_* AD-1/A-1 Skyraider: *_"What am I, chopped liver?!"_* 😉🤭 {YES, I know the Skyraider was more CAS, but still...😊}
I really enjoyed your video immensely. My mom worked in the FH-1 during WW-II. She was not an engineer but helped the McDonnell engineers in mathematical calculations. See comments below.
I really enjoy these. You go out of your way to put the watcher IN the period, to understand the merits of the aircraft not just in terms of specifications, but what the people actually flying them would feel.
17:05 Umm, South Korean, not South Vietnamese. Nonetheless, I had never heard of this plane before finding this channel today! It is a very well done documentary.
Bear cat had 4 50s as a -1 and is kinda wacky, lots of sacrifices for ultimate climb preformance at low level. the -2 went to 4 20mm and is alittle hevier and alittle less power more rounded.
17:00 mis-spoke there. North Korea invaded South Korea. Not South Vietnam. These are really good videos. Small historical details aren't really a big deal compared to tech and specs.
The MiG-9 was a parade fighter incapable of making real combat maneuvers without falling to pieces, let alone firing its' primary armaments together at once without the same thing happening. Even if the pilot were to fire the 37mm or 23mms separately, the cannon propellent fumes would then be sucked into the jet's intake, killing the engine. Unless the Chinese fixed these issues, they could only realistically field the aircraft as airspace deterrents/denial by presence. There's no way they could be used in real combat outside of plinking at unarmed recon aircraft or ground strafing. All this is to say, the concept of Mig-9 vs FH-1 is an interesting one in a perfect world, but if the Chinese had tested the Phantom IRL it would've been a terrible joke of an engagement, the deadly kind. If you haven't watched Paper Skies' video on the vehicle, it's an incredible insight into the early Soviet jet age and of course the MiG-9 in particular. Great video otherwise, and this only reasserts your points, the Phantom was a great aircraft for the time! Overlooked/underappreciated. I'm thankful to have been able to see a real, mostly-complete example in person, the vehicle is a very cool mix of WWII and Atomic Age design.
I thought the McDonnell F3H Demon was the precursor to the Phantom ... after all it is basically a single engined Phantom .. just because THIS aircraft was named "Phantom" does not mean it spawned the Phantom 2 ( Does a Corsair 2 look like the Corsair of ww2 vintage . NO ..they are just names)
The real story not told here was that jet engine producers consistently overstated the thrust available from their product. Navy jets underperformed virtually every USAF aircraft until Ed Heinemann's F4D came along. Navy jets were second-rate even when USAF aircraft were already second-rate.
Roosvelt Roads was actually in a small town in the east of Puerto Rico called Ceiba. I remember visiting many years ago. It's been decomissioned since 2004 I believe. Now an airport.
If you didn't know, Navy used a different designations than the Air Force In this case F is fighter, H is McDonnell, since this was the first model, hence FH. -1 was the first model. So the F4H was the fourth McDonnell fighter. Not to be confused with the F4U from Vought, and the F4D from Douglas.
The 1st gen jet fighters were so "conventional" looking, you could've bolted a propeller on the nose an the majority of people wouldn't have been any wiser (I think they did that with the Bell Airacomet).
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Being able to take off from USS Saipan, an Independence class light carrier (not an escort carrier), was impressive. Those ships were small, roughly 1/3 the displacement of an Essex class carrier, with corresponding smaller dimensions.
The Saipan was not a Independence light carrier. She was the lead ship of her own class.
Saipan was it’s own class. They were built from keel up as an aircraft carrier, unlike the Independences.
The early jet age must have been a heck of a time for aircraft engineers, manufacturers, and pilots.
Its the most fascinating time of aircraft development to me
My favorite aviation era…the early jets. 1947-57.
That incredible advancement continued up thru the A-12/SR-71. Then the fascination with radar cross sections, and then back to unusual propulsion systems. Future history will show the 90's and early 00's were very interesting indeed.
if you have read Tex Johnston's book, they were pretty much handed experimental aircraft and told to fly them as hard as they could to see what they could take. it does sound like it was a blast for them, if not incredibly dangerous.
@@wysoft …yes I have his book “Jet Age Test Pilot”.
I've never heard you before and to be honest, many Britsh commentators swallow their words and it is very hard to follow them. But you speak very clearly and have none of the British-speaking idiosyncrasies. Your motherly speaking of the Phantom is very refreshing since many talk of the older planes by pointing out all of their shortcomings. I think you did a very good job of proving that the Phantom was the grandfather of the jet carrier-based fighter. I thoroughly enjoyed your presentation. BTW, I flew the follow on F4 Phantom and loved every minute of it!
I always feel British speaker mumble. I like your term better. Also, I agree 100%
@rudy
"Many British commentators swallow their words".
British speakers speak through their open mouths unlike Americans who speak through their nose giving a gawd awful accent which makes me turn off the channel.
Swallow their words INDEED !!
@@georgeburns7251
"Mumnle" nothing!! You Americans must learn to speak through your mouth and not through your nose.
Your nasal accent is sickening!!
Love the anecdote about the beach belly flop and take-off!
It didn't set the world on fire, but it didn't let anyone down. Great closing.
Great video about an obscure jet that deserves to be remembered.
Another great video; it would be great to see more videos on the early jet aircraft of the Cold War.
Pound, I really enjoy all your analysis of aviation history subjects. I would really look forward to you covering the Iran vs Iraq war. So many interesting morsels of information including an alleged helo vs helo kill. Thank you for being so balanced and thorough. Love your work.
GREAT Marine Corps anecdote for the USMC's 248th Birthday--well done and thanks!! 😎
These videos are so cool. I hope you never stop.
Another awesome documentary on a forgotten and misrepresented aircraft, thanks!!
great video as always. Ive come to really look forward to your new posts every week, please dont ever stop.
You had me at Marine and rocket.
5:55 "The tricycle landing gear was possible because there was no propeller needing ground clearance."
The P-38, P-39, F7F, and others would call that preposterous. What kept a nosewheel off most prop fighters was inconvenience of the nose mounted engine.
Thanks for the comment. It's a good point - I should have been clearer. And I forgot about the Tigercat. That one deserves a video at some stage.
This is a great video! Got a thumbs up and subscription from me.
Hello, another excellent video. Concerning the Bearcat vs Phantom climb rate, those numbers most likely reflect the initial climb rates for those aircraft. A better climb rate comparison would be times to 10,000’, 20,000’, or even up to 30,000’. While the Bearcat had a great climb rate by virtue of its light weight and powerful engine, I suspect this was primarily at low altitudes and the Phantom exceeded the Bearcat’s climb performance as altitude (and also speeds increased). There’s a great report of a Pax River fly off test available somewhere online that compares a Bearcat(?) vs a P-80 made in the late ‘40s or early ‘50s that clearly shows the advantages of jet powered aircraft. Much of the advantage comes from a jet’s ramjet effect…as speed increased, so did the engine’s power output, whereas a prop’s power is limited and decreased at high speeds. If I can find it, I may post it here.
Well stated points, amazing visual storyline was good all around! Jet prop hybrids would be a good topic, like the Fireball..
The saying, "it is what it is", really applies well here. The FH-1 was the plane the US navy wanted and it gave them what they needed at that exact moment in time...experience flying off and landing jet aircraft from carriers. This was something nothing else could have done at that time. Yes later better faster planes came along but that wasn't for another 2 years or more. How many naval aviators were trained on those 60 jets for take off and landing at a time when nobody else in the world could do that or even had a jet plane capable of realistically flying off carriers ? Not the Brits not the Russians not anyone else. A 2 year head start and it was all because of this little plane.
Whoops, South Vietnamese at 17:05. Still a great video on a mostly for feasibility reasons, why the navy adopted this aircraft. By 1954 McDonnell already had stirrings of the Phantom II. Says a lot about the jet age.
Great job of highlighting the growing pains that the Navy had switching to jets for carrier duty. USN aircraft were very comparable, in performance, to Army Air Corp aircraft during WWII with the early Wildcat, Hellcat and Corsair being similar, in performance, to the P-40, P-47 and P-51. Not initially the case when switching to jets. This did carry into the Korean conflict as well. The video doesn’t mention this, but the F8F Bearcat did not see any combat action in WWII. Otherwise, great video.
Good presentation of an important but little-remembered fighter. FYI, USS Kearsarge (CV-33) is pronounced "KEER-SARGE," not "KEER-SAGE."
Thanks! Pronunciation still gets me from time-to-time! Appreciate the comment and glad you enjoyed the video.
@@notapoundgreat video....looking forward to thr video on the Panther and Cougar...
Or will you be covering them in seperate videos?
If the Nukes weren't drop on Japan. We could see early jets like the F-84,F-86, F9F Panther and F-2H Banshee going up against Kikka(Japanese version of ME262) and Shinden.
Japan wouldn't have had enough fuel, intact runways, qualified ground crews, or working factories to keep them supplied at that point. The firebombing raids only started in 45, and were soon followed by the two nukes. Remember how much bombing we did before we went in on the ground in Desert Storm? The same thing would happen then, especially with the kamikaze threat.
F-86 seems an like a bit of a stretch but it would definitely give the P-80 a chance to get into combat which didn’t get to do in Europe.
Wasn't Shinden a pusher propeller? Or is there any prototype I missed?
Japan had no resources to build jets, let alone piston ones.
My Dad was on the Kearsarge, CV33 during that time span, and the video mentions his ship several times
In that era the Royal Navy was way ahead having got a real jet capability with the Vampire and then the Venom
Always wondered how it would have performed if the wing was rotated 180⁰ giving it a more sweep back.🤔
Amendment - Boeing Aircraft founded 1916 Seattle Washington USA
I bet it was indeed a nice plane to fly once it was airborne because it looks like there's a lot of wing area
btw I think its kinda sus that they list bearcat speed as 455 mph I've seen more like 435 mph they must have pushed the plane very hard and made it very light to get to 455
Why tip tanks? These were a common feature of many American Gen-1 turbojet fighters, starting with the production versions of the Lockheed P-80. (The YP-80 didn't have them.) Obviously, the tanks improved range, but they weren't detachable in flight so there was a weight penalty when they were empty. I assume they served an aerodynamic purpose apart from the extra fuel they provided. They went out of fashion when swept wings became a standard feature. For example, the Navy's workhorse of the Korean War, the Grumman F9F Panther, had straight wings with tip tanks, but its swept-wing derivative, the Grumman F9F-6 Cougar, used conventional drop-tanks mounted on hardpoints much further inboard.
Tips tanks of the P-80 could be dropped in flight. The F-104 could also drop its tip tanks.
It was an experimental phase discontinued because it adversely affected roll rates
Tip tanks carry the least aerodynamic penalty, and IIRC were thought to actually decrease induced drag. The new jets weren't meant to be dogfighters, so the roll rate didn't matter all that much.
@@jirivorobel942 they thought that weren't going to have to dogfight until it was discovered that it was still necessary thus the founding of top gun....
Sorry to be pedantic, but the imaginary 1950 scenario seeing north Korea versus south Vietnam may have been a slip of the tongue !
Otherwise an excellent video which filled in several gaps in my knowledge of early jets !
Minute 16:56. The North Koreans did not attack the South Vietnamese.
What were the South Vietnamese doing in Korea?
"South Vietnamese forces?" 😳
Kearsarge not Keersay!
😂 MD IS NOT AMERICAN 😂 YOU ARE SO CONDITIONED THAT PROBABLY WILL DEFEND MD IS AMERICAN 😂, TO COMICAL. SALUDOS
you can imagine how futuristic those early Naval jet aviators must have felt operating this sleek, simple, and ground breaking aircraft. Maybe a bit similar to how pilots feel flying an F-35 for the first time.
Simple controls, easy handling, massive jets of burning fuel and air propelling them to new heights and speeds. If only all naval aircraft of the early postwar period could live up to such expectations! It must have been a bit of a damper when the more dangerous and unstable fighters like the F-3H and F-7U presented themselves
I've read some accounts, and the piston-trained pilots were awed by the smoothness and relative quiet of those early jets, as well as the lack of torque and, of course, the ease of operation. Overall performance, though, was not as impressive.
Good video, as usual. 👍
Maybe you didn't notice just one tiny error:
Min 16:57, "... and then on the 25th of june 1950 North Korean Forces launch a massive attack into the South, the "South Vietnamese" forces are swept aside..."
I'm pretty sure that i don't need to explain the error to you.
Keep doing this nice work! 😉
Thanks! That's what happens when you try and make Korean War and Vietnam War content at the same time!!
@@notapound>>> I had to repeat that bit of the video to make sure I heard that correctly. THAT SAID, a totally understandable mistake in an otherwise excellent video...👍
This is the best "run-down" video on a post war relatively unknown aircraft that I've ever seen. Normally, I'll watch a minute or so of the video and move on. This one kept me watching through to the end and the end time spent was well worth spending. The fight that never happened was a great what-if. Thanks.
Although rare, a landing plane accidentally spraying the air above the flight deck with machine gun fire did happen. The lockout when the arrestor hook was extended was wise.
It was a great first step. Also interesting is how the Phantom started the McDonnell tradition of mystical names and the overall layout of two wing-root mounted engines (the Demon being the unimpressive exception) and high mounted tailplanes.
I thought it a bit ironic that the little upstart company eventually swallowed two of the early giants, Douglas and Boeing (though the merged companies are still under the Boeing name, the company came under the management influence of the McDonnell-Douglas team).
Do you have an FJ Fury video in the works? That would be really interesting, since it was also the precursor of the F-86.
There was a lot of the Phantom's design that flowed into the later Banshee and somewhat into the later Demon, Voodoo, and Phantom II. The high mounted tailplane seems to be required when the exhaust exits the fuselage so far forward. I've always wondered why McDonnell kept that configuration for so long, instead of just moving the engine to the back of the fuselage (when using an afterburner) or using a tailpipe for the non-afterburning engines.
@@SkyhawkSteve - The long tailpipe is less efficient although the Scooter did well with one.
And the FJ series is a direct descendant of the P-51 Mustang…
@@scootergeorge7089 There are always compromises, but the tailpipe seemed to be accepted in many aircraft. Curiously, the A-6 has engines embedded near the fuselage, somewhat similar to the Phantom I, but uses short tailpipes with curves in them. I was quite surprised the first time I noticed the curves!
@@allangibson8494 - Just because both were designed and built by North American Aviation, does not make the FJ a Mustang descendant. It was an adaptation of the Saber for carrier use.
A far better looking aircraft, and likely much better, than the clumsy Vought Pirate.
Ridiculously good for a first of type..
12:43 Bearcat has 4x M3 Browning MG or 4x M3 cannon. Hope you do a follow-up on the Banshee.
Thanks! I should have checked. I'm starting out on the Banshee. It is a much more in-depth subject as there were so many versions. Really good fun to research though!
Keep these comming! You have a very good format here.
I'm sure you get requests all the time, but would you consider delving into high performance research aircraft of post WW2?
There were some pretty wild designs, and crazy stories. I'd be interested in what you can turn up.
Excellent installment! Regarding the Phantom's guns, this arrangement was not unlike that of the Lockheed Lightning sans the 20mm cannon. That aircraft was also employed as a night fighter, featuring flash suppressors. The .50s of the Lightning didn't have flash suppressors, that I recall, so it's interesting that the USN felt the .50s of the Phantom a problem. Go fig. Humble beginnings to greatness! Very well done!!
Thank you for the kind comment - it made my evening! And for the flash suppressor point :) - I'll have a little look and see if other types/ other nations also fitted those.
@@notapoundwhen will the Panther and Cougar videos be coming or will you be covering both of them in the 1 video?
The 15 years or so from 1935 to around 1950 saw incredible changes in fighter aircraft. In 1935, biplanes armed with a couple of .30 caliber (or .303 or 7.7 mm) machine guns were still common. By 1950, swept-wing jet aircraft were becoming the norm, and the .50 caliber machine gun was giving was to 20 mm or 23 mm cannon, and air-air missiles were coming.
I'd move that swept-wing date a year or two forward. Both the MiG-15 and the F-86 were pretty radical in 1950. The first American experimental swept-wing prototype was the Northrop X-4 Bantam, which first flew in 1948. The X-4 took several design features from Me-163 Komet in that it was a semi-tailless design but with jet engines rather than a Walter rocket motor. The X-4 was expected to be supersonic, but transonic instability kept its top speed under 700 mph. The de Havilland DH.108 also followed the Komet's basic shape, but it proved even more unstable than the X-4. Consequently, straight wings and conventional tails persisted into the 1950s.
People often forget the less used aircraft that bridge the gap between technologies. The faster, more powerful and sometimes battle proven early stuff will get all the glory because they exceeded expectations. The FH-1 is a perfect example of being JUST good enough to prove the tech works on a carrier, and managed to be reliable enough to get that data quickly. Then when its replacements were "ready", the FH-1 was quickly kicked aside and forgotten about as the new hotness took over.
And often some truly monumental achievements that out paced their contemporaries by a wide margin are maligned.
The P-38, F-104, F-35. Just to name Lockheed.
I think the reason that it gets little recognition is that it this type wasn't in service for very long. McDonnell was already at-work on it's replacement the "Banshee".
Great to be able understand the English language spoken by the narrator correctly.
I agree, its great to be able that
There is something about the straight wing jets that I find very appealing. One aspect of the design that I don't think you mention was its ability to "kneel" which was carried through into the early Banshee variants and I believe was supposed to aid in the "spotting" of the aircraft on the deck or in the hangar area. The Banshee also featured the same wing design of the Phantom. Great video, with some fabulous footage and photographs, thank you!
By kneel do you mean slightly raising the rear landing gear, thus raising the front fuselage?
@@glitchedmatrix55 sorry I didn't see your question before now. No, the nose gear is retracted and a small supplementary pair of wheels are attached to the front of the nose. It allowed for the aircraft to be parked much closer together under the tail of the aircraft in front. I guess it wasn't particularly practical operationally, so never really used. If you search kneeling Phantom or Banshee you can find photos of the system being tested etc.
@@marktuffield6519 Oh, thanks for the info.
Another outstanding documentary on my favorite subject, U.S. naval aviation, thank you. Please keep up the great work.
Thank you so much for these looks at the early jet aircraft and all the associated context, which is everything. Excellent!!
The Moonbat looks sexy.
The Fictional FH-1 vs. MiG-9 scenario sounds a lot an account of the Japanese war in Harry Turtledove's "Joe Steel"
Land-based aircraft have superior flight characteristics as you can always get a carrier aircraft and remove the tail-hook, the wing-folding mechanisms, and remove some of the beefiness of the landing gear. This saves a few tons. What's remarkable is that carrier aircraft are competitive at all.
Yeah, that's definitely Marine resourcefulness. The crayons must have been especially nutritious that week.
9:22 minutes, love the stories of the old marine flying sergeants.
The last one retired in the early 70s, I believe as a Master Guns (e-9).
A lot of people don’t know that the corps had enlisted pilots.
Semper Fi.
So did the Navy back in the day ...
VF-2 was originally named ... the Flying Chiefs
12:44 The Bearcat only had 4 x .50 machine guns, not six
Though they would be replaced with 4 x 20mm cannon in later -1B and -2 versions
Your voiceover work is improving video to video. Keep up the great work. Only one thing: you said south vietnamese instead of saouth korean
Huh, hadn't heard about the north korean invasion of south veitnam before :P. But great video, had barely heard about this aircraft before
I saw my first FH-1 in the San Diego aviation museum during 1972--before someone burned down the place. I was fascinated by the FH-1 and the Ryan FR-1 Fireball--another attempt to keep aircraft carrier aviation relevant in the jet age. The Phantom still had life as a photo-recon platform after it was replaced as a front-line fighter.
Nice video. I liked this presentation. Despite the end of WW2 resulting in "no money" for development of the FH-1, getting sixty of these little jets (they are small when viewed in person) allowed the Navy to figure out how to operate jets from aircraft carriers and keep the jets working. The FH-1 formed the baseline carrier fighter jet for newer planes that entered service in the 1950's, especially in terms of service ceiling and combat radius.
At high altitudes the piston engines suffered from oxygen starvation even with turbosuperchargers (jet engines were based on the turbosuperchargers in the early days). The FH-1 could out-perform the F8F Bearcat at altitude--until the Phantom ran out of fuel.
Oh good, I was starting to think I was alone in knowing about the Ryan FR Fireball. Really cool interim solution if a bit too fragile for repeated carrier landings.
I love your deep dives into the obscure. It’s so refreshing to hear about something new ❤
My FAVORITE Site...Thanx!!!
I was hoping you would go into the Banshee, since it is an extension of the Phantom 1. There are so many fascinating Navy fighters from that period. It seemed like the lifespan of a fighter in the 1940-50s was only 5-10 years. Now with the maturity of designs today, a fighter might serve for 30-40 years. I think the only reason we are developing another Stealth Air Superiority fighter is because the F-22 is essentially a 2nd Gen stealth fighter, sort of like the early jets.
Despite it being a less popular and almost forgotten early jet I really like the FH-1 Phantom. Thanks for doing a mini documentary on it! Also loved the what if scenario between MiG-9s and FH-1s mixing it up in 1950 so cool!
Thanks so much. Great script and so interesting.
I've known the FH Phantom for a while, as the pioneer of McDonnell line of aircraft (And one of Naval jets pioneer, as you said), but beside that, the data on this plane i can find was very scarce (maybe as scarce as MiG-9?), so, I really appreciate you for this!
Amazing content as usual, this channel deserves more subs.
17:05 "South Vietnamese forces"? North and South Vietnam were created in 1954, four years after the start of the Korean war.
I noticed that... Think it's supposed to be South Korean
The F8F-1 Bearcat had only four (4), 0.50 caliber heavy machine guns. The F8F-2 Bearcat had four (4), Hispano 20mm cannons.
The Phantom's top speed was only 480 mph. As a first Navy jet, it was a good attempt. The US Navy was quick with higher-performance successor jets.
Great video. Thanks for bringing some publicity to this historic jet. The FH-1 was certainly an important aircraft.
Comparing the early naval jets against the contemporary land-based jets is similar to the situation before WW2 when compating the equivalent piston-powered naval and land-based aircraft.
It's like some experience got resetted with the introduction of jets; an interesting note indeed
Agree. Adapting to jets was a lot like adapting to the all-metal monoplane in the environment where low-speed approaches is so critical. And the deck handling is so orchestrated in close quarters that I can see why the USN would be somewhat conservative and measured during adoption.
Great to see something on the FH-1.
Sweet! Once again you have focussed on an aircraft that I've been interested in when I've seen photos of it or read/seen the snippets out there on it. But now I have some very interesting and well presented info to sink my teeth into.
Your channel has quickly become one of my favorites, and I always look forward to your new vids. Keep up the great work!!!
so Phrist of the the Phablous Phantoms.🎉
Legitimately my favourite channel to see new uploads from, great stuff
I really love how fairly and objective you always evaluate aircraft, even those lesser known or having a bad calling.
I really enjoyed this video. The Phantom should actually be way more famous than it is as the U.S. Navy's first jet fighter.
It was also a really good-looking plane, compared to some other early jets.
My Daddy and Mom - The Soldier and the Mathematician in World War II
My dad (Bob Brown) was in WW-II and was at Jefferson Barracks in St. Louis for basic training. My mother (Kathryn Nelson Brown) majored in math at the Georgia State College for Women. She joined my dad after they were married early in the war. It was in St. Louis that mom got a dream job at McDonnell Aircraft which had a “top secret project” to design and build the first jet plane to take off and land on an aircraft carrier. Mama assisted the engineers in performing math analysis that needed to be done and used a mechanical calculator to get the results the designers needed. On the drawing board and on its first three test flights the plane was called the experimental XFD-1. On July 19, 1946, during sea trials the XFD-1 made the first takeoff and landing by a US jet powered aircraft on a Navy carrier the USS Roosevelt CVC-42. In production, the plane became known as the FH-1 Phantom Fighter. Mama felt very proud to have played a small part in this important war effort. Mother’s story began to stir my interest in engineering and science. Bob Brown, Jr.
The Me 262, introduced in 1944, made the Phantom look obsolete.
…but there’s no way you’re consistently getting an ME-262 down on a carrier deck. The general point is interesting though. I need to get more into the ME-262, in particular why no one decided to reverse engineer and improve on it.
@strategyfromtherightbrain Indeed that is so. Landing an Me 262 on a carrier would be an adventure.
But though I may be wrong, I think you you said that US Navy fighters were equivalent to their land-based equivalents anywhere. The Corsair was a superb plane, about equal to the Spifires and Focke-Wulfs of 1944-45, and the best the Japanese were struggling to produce. But the 262 was a qualitative leap, was it not?
@notapound >>> *_"But the writing was on the wall for the piston engine as a viable propulsion for an air superiority fighter."_*
AD-1/A-1 Skyraider: *_"What am I, chopped liver?!"_*
😉🤭
{YES, I know the Skyraider was more CAS, but still...😊}
Bearcat never saw action in WW2. AI sucks.
...and humans make mistakes...
I really enjoyed your video immensely. My mom worked in the FH-1 during WW-II. She was not an engineer but helped the McDonnell engineers in mathematical calculations. See comments below.
I really enjoy these. You go out of your way to put the watcher IN the period, to understand the merits of the aircraft not just in terms of specifications, but what the people actually flying them would feel.
@ 20'17 you mention South Vietnamese, correction, South Koreans
Another excellent video, thanks and subscribed
17:05 Umm, South Korean, not South Vietnamese. Nonetheless, I had never heard of this plane before finding this channel today! It is a very well done documentary.
Bear cat had 4 50s as a -1 and is kinda wacky, lots of sacrifices for ultimate climb preformance at low level. the -2 went to 4 20mm and is alittle hevier and alittle less power more rounded.
17:00 mis-spoke there. North Korea invaded South Korea. Not South Vietnam.
These are really good videos. Small historical details aren't really a big deal compared to tech and specs.
Iagree with @YTORWOODY - A interesting, if not mesmerising video about a not-well-knows early carrier-capable jet fighter.
The MiG-9 was a parade fighter incapable of making real combat maneuvers without falling to pieces, let alone firing its' primary armaments together at once without the same thing happening. Even if the pilot were to fire the 37mm or 23mms separately, the cannon propellent fumes would then be sucked into the jet's intake, killing the engine. Unless the Chinese fixed these issues, they could only realistically field the aircraft as airspace deterrents/denial by presence. There's no way they could be used in real combat outside of plinking at unarmed recon aircraft or ground strafing.
All this is to say, the concept of Mig-9 vs FH-1 is an interesting one in a perfect world, but if the Chinese had tested the Phantom IRL it would've been a terrible joke of an engagement, the deadly kind. If you haven't watched Paper Skies' video on the vehicle, it's an incredible insight into the early Soviet jet age and of course the MiG-9 in particular.
Great video otherwise, and this only reasserts your points, the Phantom was a great aircraft for the time! Overlooked/underappreciated. I'm thankful to have been able to see a real, mostly-complete example in person, the vehicle is a very cool mix of WWII and Atomic Age design.
It’s actually quite elegant in it’s simple nature
I thought the McDonnell F3H Demon was the precursor to the Phantom ... after all it is basically a single engined Phantom .. just because THIS aircraft was named "Phantom" does not mean it spawned the Phantom 2 ( Does a Corsair 2 look like the Corsair of ww2 vintage . NO ..they are just names)
The real story not told here was that jet engine producers consistently overstated the thrust available from their product. Navy jets underperformed virtually every USAF aircraft until Ed Heinemann's F4D came along. Navy jets were second-rate even when USAF aircraft were already second-rate.
Roosvelt Roads was actually in a small town in the east of Puerto Rico called Ceiba. I remember visiting many years ago. It's been decomissioned since 2004 I believe. Now an airport.
Much awaited, much appreciated. I am looking forward to excellent insights as always from you.
16:58 North Koreans attacked south vietnam in 1950? Slight error there, great video as always though
This may be a minor issue, but important in context, you said Vietnam when you meant Korea, that really throws context out of wack. Just saying.......
If you didn't know, Navy used a different designations than the Air Force
In this case F is fighter, H is McDonnell, since this was the first model, hence FH. -1 was the first model.
So the F4H was the fourth McDonnell fighter. Not to be confused with the F4U from Vought, and the F4D from Douglas.
The 1st gen jet fighters were so "conventional" looking, you could've bolted a propeller on the nose an the majority of people wouldn't have been any wiser (I think they did that with the Bell Airacomet).
An excellent presentation - hopefully we will see more videos from you - looking forward !! Thank you, sir .
Thank you for this! I always wondered about the first Phantom. Excellent as always!
Did the Bearcat see action in WWII? Don't think so.... Found errors and unsubstantiated speculation as well.