Children of Húrin 101 - An Introduction | Of The Children of Húrin: Tolkien's First Age Explained
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Everything you need to know before diving into Tolkien's darkest tale...
Check out the full story of the Battle for Beleriand (Nírnaeth Arnoediad)
Part 1: Origins of Húrin & the prelude to this battle - • Beleriand at War | Of ...
Part 2: The Battle Begins - • Nirnaeth Arnoediad | O...
Part 3: The Beginning of the End - • The Battle of Unnumber...
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#Silmarillion
#tolkien
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Much love, stay groovy, and navaer mellyn nín!
My dog walk tonight is gonna be epic
I'll walk ur dog if u want. 🤷♂️
Great idea. For me it’s a pre bedtime listen. But I love the dog walk idea too
That is a great idea!
I feel that on a deeply personal level. Cheers
Stoop! I'm literally waking my dog right now and listening to this!
This kind of video is exactly what sets this Tolkien channel apart from others. The depth of insight, the breadth of contextual information on mythology, language and Tolkiens development is fascinating. It does require a bit of commitment from the viewer, but I’m sure more and more fans will see the channel for what it is: the true Number 1 resource for Middle Earth fans.
Thank you very much!
There really aren't yet any other videos on the subject that have done such a good job as this one.
I'm just here for the pure comedy and accent-
Definitely deserves a seat at the table with Nerd of the Rings, In Deep Geek, and Men of the West!
@@BradsGonnaPlaythis channel is better than all those (which I’m also subbed to).
Sir Christopher Lee reading of Children of Hurin was EPIC.
The tragic fate of watching the curse happen to your children and not being able to do a damn thing about it.
Makes me wonder if Turin is an elf friend what does it take to be an elf enemy.
I think if he hadn’t of abandoned Findulas things might have been different for him.
Part 1 of 13. Oh boy!! Can't decide whether to listen to each episode as it appears or whether to wiat until they're all uploaded and have a massive binge whilst I complete a huge home DIY project!
Im hoping this goes into a fall of gondolin series. The fall of gondolin and the children of hurin are probably my favorite stories. Loving these videos.
I am so excited to have reached the point in time that we all get to see RD’s treatment of this masterpiece of JRRT’s. This is one of my two favorites of the Legendarium, the other being the Tale of Beren and Luthien. Both stories stand, in my mind at least, as equally awesome. One is a tale of hope and love sprinkled with tragedy, while The Children of Hurin is a story of tragedy, woe, and despair, but, throughout it, you can’t help but admire Turin and his father’s defiance of evil. Such a great and tragic work of art.
“Since I’ve got a minute, and I can’t look at Gondolin, I’ll just look at everything else that matters to you, and worsen them by my attention.”
Jeff said he wanted his own Game of Thrones, and whenever I re-read this I feel that this would have made such an awesome show that would be that water-cooler-phenomenon because it is SO different from the happy hero-stories everyone knows. Really looking forward for all 13 episodes!
Frr If somebody that understand tolkien and is note woke would make that happen it could imo be even better then Peter Jackson trilogy or at the same lvl. There is a biiiiig potential.
It has an awesome length to turn into a one season series, too! But Jeff better fucking keep his dirty claws off it. He already destroyed the Second Age, I don't want him anywhere NEAR the First Age, especially not near my favorite Tolkien story of all time!
@@magiv4205 Yeah I feel like a one-off miniseries of however many episodes it would take, 10, 15, 20, without dragging. As for Jeff I think we can all agree that he didn't destroy or sully any of Tolkiens work since ROP has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with Tolkien spare a few names they copied onto entirely different characters.
@@jnsl1982 I'll drink to that!
@@jnsl1982 Beautiful words💯
That part about Morgoth losing power to those things he created is the single most important thing I have learned from you. I really appreciate the fact that you put in text and documented it. I never remembered that fact, You are the best Tolkien expert out there.
Agreed. And Melkor/Morgoth lost power for several other reasons (bestowing much of his power and essence into Arda to corrupt and bend it to his will, hence the term "Morgoth's Ring", pouring some more of his power unto his many servants) and continued to lose power as the countless ages passed leading up all the way to the end of the First Age where he was at his weakest, vastly inferior compared to what he once was as the greatest/mightiest of all the Valar by far in his prime in the beginning.
Read The Silmarillion.
Yeeeeesssssss let's go! Also, I laughed out loud at "Chapter XVII - The Spoiler of Spoiler"
Oh, Dave's uploaded. What part of Middle Earth are we gonna talk about no-
*Sees Children of Hurin.*
... Well shit, it's that time of the year now, huh?
*Preps the popcorn and the drinks*
The dark side of 2023.....
I cannot wait for the Tolkien Untangled treatment of this story - I hope you cover 1) Hurin’s conversation with Morgoth about fate of men - so profound to me 2) strength of men (least in the elder days) seeming to be able to exceed that of elves - sort of important that men are not lesser in all ways to elves - men and elves together seem to enrich and compliment each other in many ways - tragic they had to be sundered by Morgoth’s malice
Turin and Tuor are for me, Tolkien's take on "There but for the grace of god go I." So much of their story is the same... but one was favoured by the Gods, the other cursed.... and their lives went accordingly.
I will add one more major mythological influence for Turin -- the tale of Sigurd and the Dragon. This is one of the great stories of Nordic myth, and is immediately what I thought of as I was reading The Children of Hurin. Some aspects of the story are profoundly similar. The dragons Glaurung and Fafnir, several traits of Turin and Sigurd, and even some of the darker details regarding the personal relationships in the story.
As it happens, Tolkien also has a translation of Sigurd's story, which I can recommend wholeheartedly.
100% agree with you on differences between Fëanor and Turin. Fëanor is a jerk an a-hole an arrogant spoiled brat, he is the best and he knows it. But Turin, he is prideful honorable and decent guy who just happens to be always in the wrong place and wrong time(maybe because of the curse). Tragic but marvelous, prideful but yet humble. I can go on and on cause he is so complex and i love this character very much. Children of Hurin is my second favorite book, most favorite is Beren and Luthien cause i’m romantic just like that😅
I thought about it, and I still think "Children of Hurin" is the better name. Tolkien's rejection of the initially coined "Curse of Morgoth" name seems (admittedly speculatively) to be a symbolic rejection of any true, enduring victory on Morgoth's part, his curse ultimately in the long-term merely serving as a vehicle for the fulfillment of Illuvatar's overarching will for Arda, consistent with the philosophy underlying the Ainulindale's symphonic back-and-forth between Morgoth and Illuvatar. I personally believe that it was thus renamed "Children of Hurin" in symbolic mockery of Morgoth, whose curse was (unknowingly) a crucial long-term factor leading to his own demise. Hurin's Children did not fail, sad as their fates may have been. Despite, nay *because* of everything that happened due to the curse, they instead paved the way for Morgoth's eventual doom, and could thus be said to have *triumphed* over him and his curse. And I believe that Tolkien renamed the story "Children of Hurin" to emphasize this aspect of the tale, consistent with the aforementioned philosophy from the Ainulindale which permeates the entire Legendarium.
I considered this as well, the book is a tribute and epitaph to the Children of Hurin. I don’t think Tolkien could ever stomach putting the foul name of Morgoth in the title of one of his works.
I read almost all of Tolkien, and know the stories; however, I was waiting for this series to continue more than I waited on my paycheck hahaha :D Thank you, for all the stories
Thank you for turning me onto Tolkien. I honestly have no words to say how much I've appreciated your videos. You're a natural lecturer and as a former teacher (18 years coming to a sudden an inglorious end) I wonder if you've ever considered offering a guest lecture to universities to go along with your videos (teachers pay teachers, even). I don't think you need to be a credentialed/professional teacher to offer this interesting and incredibly well researched content. If you're interested, I'd be happy to share some pointers for lesson plans or such. You wouldn't be compromising your video content, just monetizing a portion of it to educate others and helping teachers with less experience come up with amazing and inspiring lessons. In an alternate universe, if I'd had a teacher who showed this much passion and interest in a subject as you show, I would've been a Tolkien scholar or gone into a similar field!
I wish we would get more modern authors like Tolkien. Don't get me wrong, there are some wonderful modern fantasy works. But Tolkien created another world as if he went there for 10 years, documented everything and then came back and wrote a fiction that took place in that world. You know an author is great when they can talk about their stories like they were living there when it all happened. They travel with their characters day by day in their mind while living here on earth.
My day gets instantly better when there's a new Tolkien Untangled video. It's even better past that when it's about my favorite Tolkien story. Thanks, Dave!
Your channel has quickly become my absolute favorite Tolkien channels.
Amazing video once again!
As a Finn my joy was palpable at the mention of Kalevala and you explained it beautifully.
Thanks very much!
It's a good channel lol
Thank you! I know this was probably a lot of work to put together but we really appreciate it. Excellent!!!! ❤
I think I was already a metal fan before Children of Hurin got published. But it definitely solidified it. Beauty out of the ugliest tones. Hope out of its absence. Perfection.
Beauty out of the ugliest tones is one heck of a line ❤
I actually read this book, unknowing it was a Tolkien book........I was traumatized afterwards.
Your description of Turin brings Boromir to my mind, Dave 😅 Anyone else riding this boat?
What a series to look forward to, mate🙌🏼
Thank you Rainbow Dave, another fantastically entertaining series! I love your delivery of this material and I'm so excited to get to go on another deep dive journey. Your delivery always seems exciting and simultaneously grounded. As an older viewer (54) and long admirer of Tolkiens' works, I am perpetually surprised when the story makes me think critically about my own beliefs and examinations of my own actions. The "tangent" you discussed relating to "fate vs. freewill" I particularly enjoyed. I think with the audience you have garnered, you have many cotangent supporters :) Thank you for your work.
Going to save this video for later, can’t wait! Also, the Christopher Lee audiobook is probably the best narration ever, wish he did the Silmarillion too.
I am so excited for this series! The Children of Hurin is my second favorite story in the legendarium. Such a glorious introduction and backstory Rainbow Dave!
And whats your favorite? Just curious.
It’s my no. 1 favourite.😊
@@rall172 my #1 top spot goes to Beren and Luthien.
Dave you are wonderful for doing this my friend. I can’t even fandom the amount of research that goes behind each one your vídeos. 😊 I feel like I have such a better grasp of the story of Middle Earth with your insights. Your enthusiasm is contagious and I find myself re-reading the Silmarillion again. Thank you for what you do. Your videos keep me company while I work and every new release is a bright part of my day.
I like Turin because he is so unapologetically human. We can identify with him because we all know the dark things we hide from others in our hearts and most of us want to do right, but often by trying to do what we ‘believe’ is right we do the evil we do not wish to do and cause worse things to occur. Mankind in Tolkien’s world are different to Elves and Dwarves because they have a dual complex nature.
Túrin Turambar was the character I most identified with in my feverish 15yo brain. Valiant yet cursed, honorable yet enslaved, the Terror of Defiance yet unable, in the end, to overcome but still able to pass along hope. Strange, sometimes, how things work out....
NGL…I usually avoid The Children of Húrin. They broke my heart when I first read them and it still makes me sad to even think about them 🥺
32:04 I’m sorry, but now I can’t stop picturing the Valar sitting in their cosmic briefing room, with one of them - who coincidentally looks like Oscar Isaac - grimly announcing that “somehow, Morgoth returned”.
Can't wait to go through this series with you! I had always pictured Sigurd as the main inspiration for Turin's character, so thanks for bringing Kullervo to my attention 😃
I was so much looking forward to this. It has turned an awful, intense, stressful 10 hr a day week into Thank God it’s Friday when there is a Rainbow Dave video. The start is magnificent and I love the historical foundations. Can’t wait for the next.
switching back and forth between GirlNextGondors Feanor simping and Dave bashing the dude is giving me whiplash but its also funny as hell 😂😂
Lexi is a Noldor. She can't help herself.😆😂🤣
I actually stopped reading it a few times because it was so dark 😂
At last, my story truely told by rainbow Dave 👍👍🤣🤣👏👏
The story of Kullervo seems to inspire other authors, notably Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone. Now that I think of it, Turin and Elric share some traits, the dragon helm, the black blade, and being doomed to a fate they can't change.
CAN.NOT.WAIT!!!!
I can not express how great your videos are.
The words that come to mind are: profound (in your reading, knowledge, love for Tolkien's work. And so transported/conveyed to others). Engaging (yes I am hyped for the rest of the series and your take on EVERYTHING. specially that I did read The Children of Hurin). Passionate (I love Tolkien's work, but I never dove nor even read half of what you read).
So really thank you, just follow your passion. Your journey on this channel has been a great joy to follow so far.
After a week of antibiotics for all my kids the youngest one comes home with a high fewer… stupid virus. So mummy won’t be able to go to the concert she would have been invited to tonight by one of her best friends… in the most beautiful concert hall in the world with the best acoustics (Wiener Musikverein)…😭😭😭… BUT…BUT…. A new video by Rainbow Dave! By far the most awesome content creator concerning Tolkiens world! A video to compensate almost everything! At least I can binge in this video delight! Thanks Dave❤️
Glad to brighten a difficult day!
This is so awesome! I love this introduction and explanation of how Professor Tolkien painfully pieced together the character of Turin, all those years and from the 'germ' of the Legendarium beginnings. Even before a silmaril was thought of. Beowulf and Kalevala influences: Kalevala, the dwelling place of the poem's chief characters, is a poetic name for Finland, meaning “land of heroes.” Thank you Dave, for your in depth and comprehensive research into Tolkien's writings. I'm anticipating this series on The Children of Hurin.
Talking of the Gollum eucatastrophe. Gollum swore on the precious (the one ring) to protect his master and the Ring unknowingly brought about it’s own demise by punishing Gollum through the oath. As Frodo said to Gollum later after showing him mercy after Gollum’s betrayal he said “If you ever touch me again you will be cast into the Fires of Doom yourself”.
This book was one of the most dark and depressing ones for me to have read back when I was in my teens, exploring the saddest, most petty, most personaly horrifying chapters in the Silmarillion with more detail and none of the payoff in the form of the War of Wrath found in the Silmarillion.
Which is to say I loved it, and I'm glad you're looking into it. Turin is a classic tragic hero, and a wonderfully human character to contrast with the similarly flawed, yet larger than life elven heroes like Feanor and Fingolfin, or the more successful classic heroes like Tuor and later Aragorn. The suffering he and his family go through at Morgoth's hands cements the dark lord as the true villain that he is (and not the sympathetic character modern writers would want him to be).
Per chance, if you ever want to do a more relaxing topic, might I suggest looking into some of the poetry in Tolkiens "Adventures of Tom Bombadill," as well as other works contained within such as "Leaf by Niggle" or my personal out-of-Middle-Earth favorite, "Farmer Giles of Ham."
This is my favorite story. I hate when I get a happy ending and I feel cheated. Nope, Túrin / Kullervo give you the opposite and it's more savory than bittersweet. Otherwise, I'm a really happy person. I always pictured James Le Gros as Túrin and Steve Martin as Húrin. I can't wait to see what you think of Mîm. He's an extra level of complexity. Let the sadness begin!!
But can't you have a happy ending without feeling cheated? Or, for that matter, a sad ending that does make you feel cheated?
I'm not even halfway through and I have so many thoughts! I'm really excited for this series, i read it on my own awhile back, and enjoyed it, but I had only gotten interested in the Silmaril thanks to these videos and I know I'll get so much more from it!
I guess I'm really wondering, and I have no idea if Tolkien ever addressed this, but what is the threshold for Iluvatar to intervene through eucatastrophe? I mean, does it only happen when the whole entirety of creation is at stake? 51% of it? I was thinking that, but then I remembered the Eagles arriving for Maedhros, one elf being tortured. And, yes, a lot of things depended on him... But still. So many elves were tortured in the dungeons and no eagles arrived. So many died in agony, and even if the entire world grew back, the Dark Lord's triumph was complete in their lives. Which people matter to Eru enough to intervene, and which ones don't?
Kirsten, I’ve read the Silmarilion at least 10X over the years, and can only remember Eru Illuvatar directly intervening once, and that was when Middle Earth was forever altered, Numenor was sunk beneath the waves, and the Undying Lands removed from the circles of Middle Earth. Before that happened, Arda was flat. This happened towards the end of the Second Age. Although, I guess one could say that he was indirectly involved in other alterations to Arda/Middle Earth through the actions of the Valar, who were basically performing the will of Illuvatar.
Amazon should have hired you to write their series. You have a great understanding of Tolkien and his works that is almost unrivaled.
On the subject of fate versus free will, military commanders will often publish their intent, a document, where they outline the overall result they would like to achieve. They are subordinates are than tasked to achieve those results through orders. Some of the most effective military operations in history have been carried out by those subordinates that I’ve just been left to figure things out on their own with the intent to guide them. Not completely unlike the plan of Iluvatar
I really loved Glaurung in the full book. He's awful but very polite. "Hail Turin son of Hurin, Master of Doom by Doom Mastered! Hail, and well met!" He says, with Gurthang hilt deep in his belly. 😂😥💀
I think it's sardonic, like Glaurung's mocking him in disguise.
Another Great upload to binge while working!! Thankyou rainbow dave mah buddy!! Time to listen😉
Keep it up man, this is hands down my favorite Tolkien channel!
Turin is indeed more of a tragic anti-hero. You really feel for the poor guy. I honestly think of Feanor rather as a kind of anti-villain(?) I, too, felt much the same upon his death: relief (much as I'm sure many of the Elves in Beleriand felt as well---too bad about his damned curse...)
I’m only 15 minutes in, but I wonder if The Music ever stops. All of the children of Ilúvatar constantly sing and make new music with their thoughts and choices. Anyway, omg I love this long form deep dive content!
Thank you so much Rainbow Dave.... My favourite story in the whole of arda...
I didn't know that Boethius foreshadowed Molinism! Been putting "Consolation of Philosophy" off. Will have to check it out.
Regarding the validity of the curse, I've seen most channels explain how oathes work, and using that principle in debunking Túrin actually being cursed. I guess those people are forgetting the fact that Húrin swore an oath to Turgon 😂
Turin's story is the one tale I have the hardest time remembering. Excited for your untangling! Great background to start us off, I had no idea about Tolkien and the Kalevala. I only know of the Kalevala from some Mystery Science Theater episodes 😅
Imagining a Dragon Helmed Turin striking down Morgoth gets my feels going
I envision everyone else who fought Morgoth stepping aside and saying, "He's yours."
@@maryeckel9682 yeh hope someone worthwhile does a good job of completing that story.
This is why this channel is different in the best of ways! You don't simply launch into the story itself but spend an entire video helping us to develop the relevant background knowledge, and it gives your audience more reasons to care about this story. Excellent!
This ^^
I am a recent Tolkien fan, so I am overjoyed at the mention of Kalevala! I had commented about it on a previous video of yours. So, I feel a little more legit and on the road to being considered a Tolkien nerd.
Mr. Dave... Of all the tales of the Silmarillion, the book that most inspired me to write my own mythology 18 years ago, you've decided to make an expansive series about the one I immediately chose as my favorite. And you began with the most epic and awe-inspiring backstory, spooky, even, because the Silmarillion was kind of like my version of "the germ.” I'm very excited to relive and learn more about what I've set aside as my most personally favored chapter of the Silmarillion. I've already learned things I did not know before, and I can't wait to hear the rest, be it review or news.
Thank you! I want you to know that your work means something to me, and to others who wander the vast interwebs in search of meaning in a world that can feel so meaningless.
That’s so lovely to read. Thank you very much! I can’t wait to be talking about Turin either!
Children of Húrin is my second favorite Tolkien story behind LOTR itself. And this video is great, however, I feel like you need to cut our boy Fëanor some slack too, I believe somewhere it is mentioned that the Valar consider Melkor corrupting Fëanor and the Nolder his worst feat, so he shouldn't be completing judged on his actions.
Another outstanding video, sir. Thank you for the time, effort, and love you put into them. As a fan who first began reading these stories 40 years ago, I appreciate your work. Thank you, brother.
Thanks RD!! I don't remember this story very well, but I remember writing Hurin and Turin into a D&D game I was playing 25 ish years ago. So at least at some point I went to the trouble to give them stats, so I know this is gonna rule!!! Keep up the remarkable work! See you next week!!
one of my friends recommended this channel to me, and I was a bit hesitant since I had come to see most of these “Tolkien explained” channels as basically just reading Tolkien Gateway into a microphone. I was wrong, this is already much more in-depth than what I expected. looking forward to the next dozen videos about my favorite Tolkien book!
😊my copies of Beren and Luthien, The Children of Hurin, and The Fall of Gondolin arrived just today!! So I will read CoH first, and your videos will be a great readers guide for me. I hope they are as good as the Silmarillion; that is one of my favorite novels, period❤
So excited for you!
amazing video, I'm really excited for Children of Hurin
Great video about a most tragic, hardcore story!
As a practicing occultist I can tell you curses work both by interfering with people's minds into making them make wrong choices, enhancing their flaws of character in detriment to their good traits and talents, as well as by generating adverse outside circumstances for them that would result in them being harmed one way or another. There's more to it than that, as in this case the curse targeted an entire family, but the same applies nonetheless.
Having that out of the way, I think Turin was always well intended and striving to do good, or at least fix wrongs. But in doing so he kept kicking himself in the nuts as a result of the effects of the curse. The results turned out awful for him and those around.
I think he's microcosm must've been something. Besides being a possible case study for psychology, I think he must've felt anguish, sorrow and all sorts of pains on a constant basis. But I think his strong-willed nature made him feed on that and drive him onward. In some ways it's kinda like a Sith who harnesses power from pain and misery, both his own and others', but in this case Turin chooses to use that power to fight the evil that affects him and his surrounding environment instead of growing in power just so he'd end up subjugating others and thus becoming that same evil.
It's true he's got his character flaws that work against him, but not even the Eldar were perfect. But just as in the case of every real life person, his flaws kept dragging him down. The fact they were inflated and empowered by the curse only made it much, much worse.
Btw, I felt the scene with Hurin shouting towards Turgon as utterly heartbreaking. I'm going to stop as not to give spoilers to others, but that's the perfect image of despair to me 😢
Looking forward towards another outstanding series! 👏👏👏👏
When you announced that you would do this series, I was so excited! To judge by the first one, this series will be amazing! Love your videos, Rainbow Dave!
I could watch your videos all day, they are thorough, well researched and IMHO, you are one of the best storytellers on YT (if not the best).
Can't wait for your next videos of this series!
Thank you!
Thank you so much for this great introduction Dave, really looking forward to dive into this amazing story with your unparalleled depth of knowledge and passion! 😊
I was vaguely surprised that Beowulf was not mentioned as I felt that there were certain nods to that story as well, and it was another significant influence on Tolkien's development as an author.
The absolute bravery of Hurin to not just endure the presence of Morgoth (once the second most powerful being in existence), but to taunt him and bring up the names of Manwe and Varda. I've always thought of the curse of 'Morgoth's Eyes' to be like the worst form of depression, the kind that twists everything good and pure til you can take no joy from it. Can't believe Eru let it happen to be honest but then we wouldn't have this amazing, heartrending tale.
I've been waiting for this for awhile now.
Great start to the series.
Thanks Dave
Yeeeaaah! So glad we're here. Can't wait to watch the upcoming.
I’M SO EXCITED FOR ANOTHER SERIES! THANK YOU DAVE!!!
Sometimes wonder what Aragorn would have made of hearing a performance of Sibelius' setting of the tale of Kullervo from the Kalevala. Elrond might have done a double take. Daren't imagine how Galadriel might respond.
Everything we know about Tolkien's legendarium... wizards, dragons, Hobbits, the Ring, its lands, peoples and gods... all began as backstory for Turin Turambar.
That's so poignantly epic!
As a Finn it's always nice to get some attention on our national epic, and how Tolkien used it as inspiration. For some reason or another I also feel a sense of pride for Tolkien having based the elven language for large parts on Finnish grammar.
I remember reading it for the first time in the Silmarillion. Brutal literature in Tolkiens Legendarium. He warns us that’s it’s going to be bad for such a being like Morgoth to apply his power to a curse…a DOOM. As the reader of this history and watching this doom ensnare person after person and even Gondolin revealed. It just gets worse and worse.
this channel is seriously undersubscribed to. Hail
I am super excited to see what's next
This channel is pretty amazing
So rainbow Dave much love from a fan and you stay groovy too
(P.s. I'm glad I'm not the only one in the world that still says groovy)
2:45... you know... you're right. The title we use isn't the best title for the story. 10/10, not sure why I didn't see it earlier, thank you for untangling that knot I didn't I had.
Folding laundry will be very awesome today.
Dave, I love your opening words. With all my apartment lights out, started this video and ... I was frozen in place!
This video made me appreciate the book even more, knowing of the origin and myth behind it all
All that being said, can't wait for the actual story! ....#teambeleg
First age is brutal but an awesome story - the one I'd most love to know about and here it is - can't wait :)
Hey Dave, great video as usual, though two questions regarding pronunciation.
1) I think the 'ch' sound in Narn i Chin Hurin should be pronounced as in the Scottish 'loch' or German 'echt' (for example). Not as K. Mind, this is easier to say as a Dutch-speaking person than as an Englishman.
2) I notice you often refer to the Elder Days as the Eldar Days. Or do I just mishear that? To me, the Elder Days is just like 'my elder sister', nothing to do with the Eldar ie. Elves.
I realise this is incredibly pedantic.. Feel free to ignore me, your material is amazing.
Bob, I discovered your channel only a few weeks ago, but I've already listened to every video here -- some of them twice. (Except for the ones about the Amazon "LOTR" show, since I have refused to watch that.) Your breadth of familiarity with the Tolkien universe is truly outstanding. I consider myself a "Tolkien nerd" of nearly four decades -- and you still make connections that I had not considered. So my hat is off to you! Please continue with this effort as long as you can!
PS: quick question -- one of videos in the Children of Húrin playlist is listed as "hidden" -- is this correct? I'd hate to think I'm missing out on an entry here!
Corey Olsen (Mythgard Academy, the "Tolkien Professor") started measuring bad decisions in ""Turins" at one point. Personally, he reminds me a bit of Samson or even King David in the Old Testament. Such capacity, for good or evil, is a burden that few can bear successfully.
"...back when witches were thing..."
Aye, thank the stars actively practicing witches as part of a structured/organised religion is no longer a thing right....phew.
Lol 😂
Let me apologize, my sarcasm is rooted in jealousy of no longer living in the world as the vast majority of others. My bad.
great introduction, respect for all the backroumd synopsis!
Wait. What is controversial about prefering a different, second title for the story that Tolkien himself came up with? I would think no one would care all that much about which title you prefer.
This is absolutely so exciting. I cannot wait for this whole series of videos dissecting the whole story.
Re Feanor vs Turin complexity. I’d wager that though Feanor is not as psychologically nuanced as Turin that is not to say his story is less emotionally deep or profound or certainly not less intense. They’re both great dramatic characters in different ways. I am happier to have them both in the story than one or the other 😊
I haven't read the book. I'm taking a DEEP breath before each episode. This is some seriously heavy stuff to go with my coffee! I think I'll switch to wine 🍷🥂😅 Im looking forward to the rest of the series. 🖖🙄🤘🇨🇦
I wonder if all of the Valar's powers could be seen as music. The curse could be discord. Probably not but they used their power (music) to help create Arda; I don't know, I just never saw "the music" as music as we know it. I could just be thinking too philosophically lol
Per Tolkien, it seems that the surest path to a terrible end is arrogance. Whatever the motive may have been, Turin's arrogance and sense of superiority over others is unquestionable.
As is so for Morgoth. Sauron. Feanor and most of his descendants. Denethor. Saruman. Ar-Pharazon.
In fact, the only character I can think of who was on that same path but managed redemption is Galadriel.
Regardless, the path to ruin seems to always start with the death of humility, followed by the belief that others owe you homage and obedience, followed by demanding bended knee by widespread violence.
Can't say I disagree.
If Morgoth's curse works like Eru's influence, I have a lot more compassion for him. I recall Frodo's line: "your words would sound like wisdom if not for the warning in my heart." It must've been hella confusing trying to distinguish between the the urges that led to great deeds of heroism and the ones designed to bring about his downfall. Especially because Morgoth preyed on those characteristics (eg loyalty, love).
Still no compassion for Feanor tho 😂
Illuvatar gave the Flame Imperishable, or free will itself. Not only does the gift empower beings, it also inspires them to protect their freedom. That is all that is needed for good to win in the end. Frodo could have refused, Gandalf could have failed, and Middle-Earth could have fallen into an age of darkness. They didn't of course, but if they did? Evil would still lose eventually because Illuvatar has necessitated free will, whereas evil, in the form of Sauron, wants to imprison it. He wants the Flame Imperishable for himself alone, and the rest to be his slaves, like Morgoth, but Illuvatar has ordained it for all. That's why Frodo made the choice, freely: the purpose of the quest was to protect freedom in principle; in his own heart, the Shire. Simply because creatures are fated to be free by nature, tyranny can never be absolute, and always diminishes itself in the attempt. The Flame is Imperishable.
Awesome, looking very much forward to hearing this!!
I do not think "The Tale of the Curse of Morgoth" is a better title.
The main reason is that the title gives the reader the impression that Morgoths curse explains 100% of what bad things happen to Turin. As Dave said in the video, Turin's pride comes into play. That is why Christopher made the right choice in titling the chapter in The Silmarillion and the book about the story.
Everyone should at least read the stand-alone story in the book before the next video.😁