Crazy to imagine the competition this animal had to face during this time. (European Cave lion) Panthera Spelaea, North American Jaguar, Homotherium, Smilodon fatalis, American Cheetah(although it’s more cougar like), Dire Wolves, North American Dhole, North American Short faced bear, Giant Polar Bear(Ursus Maritimus Tyrannus). Then of course morden day species that survived the ice age like the Brown Bear and their various subspecies, American black bears, Modern day Cougars, Grey Wolves, Eurasian Lynx, modern polar bears and coyotes.Must of been a sight to see
@@marcosalerno4254 as of right now it could be a possibility once DNA testing could be done then they’ll know for sure. Most assume it to be a polar bear however
Actually, the American lion is rare at the tar pits is because that it lived in more open habitat on the tar pits are in forested areas. The short face bear was also a rare animal at the tar pit as well.
Like its genetic relative, Panthera atrox was probably a pride feline. Cave art seems to confirm the connection. Where team work guides circumstance, the cats affinity for open grassland only reinforces the hypothesis. Their scarcity in the tar pits also points towards packing behaviour. Smilodon seems to have been the common casualty, as opposed to the survivor.
Holy moly. That's a scary cat. Glad I don't live along side it. Between it in the savannah areas and that big ass bear in the wooded areas, it's a wonder humans survived in the Americas at all.
@@Uncle_Fred you say that now , but if we give you and four of your friends pointy sticks and then send you to Africa to fight lions , you all are gonna end up dead AF
@@Hawkeye83627 It wasn't just our intelligence but our dietary habits and physical adaptability to climate change helped us outlive most of the more resource expensive animals
@@ama5598nobody knows were humans came from but we know The human nature doesn't change, it's observable in all eight billion of us living today and in all recorded history. Human nature didn't evolve from something else and it will naver evolve to something else
@@mattmorris9283 Yes but his video is saying Lions are the largest when tigers are significantly larger than Lions. I think the largest cat today is actually a Liger.
The American lion (Panthera atrox) is the largest Panthera species in terms of average sizes, and alongside Smilodon populator is a contender for the title of largest cat ever. Weight estimates range from between 800 to 1000 pounds. While overall similar to a lion, there were some anatomical differences; American lions had relatively longer legs (in fact, they’re the most cursorial of all Panthera species, though they still likely relied heavily on ambush), and their skull and jaws were far more powerfully built, almost resembling a greatly enlarged jaguar in head shape. Presumably, this means that American lions had the same crushing bite as a jaguar, albeit on a much larger scale. In fact, there was some speculation that American lions were more closely related to jaguars, but genetic studies have disproven this. Since the American lion was closely related to the lion, and is even more closely related to-in fact, likely descended from-the cave lion (Panthera spelea), we can extrapolate some details of its paleobiology and behaviour. It was almost certainly an animal of grasslands and open woodland, and almost certainly preyed mostly on large ungulates using ambush tactics (though, as mentioned above, they would be able to sprint for somewhat longer distances than lions due to proportionately longer legs). Due to their large size they would likely be able to tackle bison or mammoth calves singlehandedly, and if they were social (see below) they may even have taken down adult woolly mammoths in rare cases. There is some question as to how social American lions would be compared to lions; it’s inferred that cave lions were less social than lions, living either alone or in much smaller prides depending on the location. American lions are likely descended from the easternmost population of cave lions, which were likely more social than other populations, so it’s possible to assume that American lions lived in small prides of one male and a few females. Since they were probably less social than lions, American lions also likely had much smaller (possibly nonexistent) manes compared to lions.
The cave lion was a social animal, we can see from cave art that it was at least as social as African lions. I think it’s logical to assume both panthera atrox and spelea were both very similar to modern lions and operated in the same niche. They are both species of panthera Leo. Also I must point out that the largest cats to ever exist is the Amphimachairodus, Machairodus and smilodon populator. The Asian species of amphimachairdous and the African species of Machairdous.
I’m not trying to argue but I read one paper where the authors suggested the American lion descended from P. Fosillis instead of Spelaea. Which would mean that Fosillis gave rise to both. Just a thought and slightly interesting.
@@soudino2723 mosbach lion is an unscientific name of the panthera fossilis, which was very large. Slightly larger than the American lion or of very similar size. The American lion was not over 400kg at max. Only older studies put it at over 400kg.
@@rahimjoseph211 nah mate no arguing here we are just guys interested in something we’ll never know the answer to. I mean the panthera fossilis evolved in Africa and the moved to Europe and went extinct by the late/middle Pleistocene. It sounds pretty illogical considering the first fossils of American lion are 300,000 years old and Africa does not connect to the Americas so I don’t see how that’s possible to be honest.
Really well done and informative! As a fan-boy of the pleistocene epoch, I already knew most of the information except that a preserved piece of flesh with hair has been recovered. In my humble opinion, this cat was almost certainly solitary in nature - similar to the vast majority of extant panthera. The largest members of Atrox must have been nothing short of awesome.
In my opinion, I think related males would've been in duos, and females would've been solitary, similar to cheetahs. Although they wouldn't have been in groups exceeding 2 since they're already a dominant apex predator.
Haha duos, don’t use ur imagination when thinking about these things. I believe it’s logical to assume they were a pack animal. Panthera Leo atrox was a lion, we also know it directly descended from panthera spelea. We know this is a pack animal, I believe it’s logical to assume they where pack animals and certainly not this duos and other stuff that’s just imagination
@@Shhhhh432 You realize that lions also form duos? No imagination necessary here. Typically its the males that do this. If the American lion was a pack hunter then it's likely to have behaved similarly, depending on the abundance of prey in the area. I'd be logical to assume it was until you consider their immense size and strength would make it less necessary if not unpractical to live in large groups, being easily twice the size of their ancestors.
@@ZombieBariothfirstly yes your right. However African lions being in duos not the typical. It happens often, just as lions move in trios and move solo. I’m sure if they were a social animal there would have been American lions in duos, however I think it’s illogical and imaginative to think for whatever reason this was the norm. The matter of their size is due to size of competitors and the size of the prey available. If an American lion pride took down an ice age bison, this is much more food than an African wilderbeast.
I had heard of the American Lion but this is the first time I've seen any in-depth video about them. I hope you've got videos about the other, lesser-known, American felines, the American cheetah and the American leopard or, if you don't have them already, I hope you intend to make videos about them in the near future.
@@jaydenlee7913 That goes against what I've read from paleontologists. Of course, they aren't certain whether or not the cats they found were leopards or jaguars. It could be that the cats that I've heard of leopards could be like the "lions"; similar in many ways but different in many ways.
I've never heard of big cats in north America we couldn't tell if they were leopards or jaguars. What is the name of the big cat we couldn't tell if it was a leopard or a jaguar?
@@jaydenlee7913 Mountain Lions (aka Pumas) inhabit both North and South America, with big males approachig 200 lbs. in weight. An outsize idividual was weighed at 276 lbs. (125 kgs.) There are also Jaguars in Mexico (actually part of North America) and a few in the S/W USA and these can be 300 lbs. (136kgs). How is it that you've never heard of big cats in North America?
This guys videos are great gets straight to the point tells you some interesting information and doesn't drag out into a 30 min plus video. Top notch work .
The bite force of the American lion wasn’t 3 times greater than an Morden lion because the bite force of a morden lion is about 1000psi not the 650 psi that was done on a sub adult.
@@pokemonitishere202 the nat geo the ones who did the Original test on the sub adult lion said that a fully grown lion would be around 1000psi tho, so the source that showed the 650psi you guys like to use so much admitted 3 different times that the actual bite force of a grown mature adult would be around 1000psi. Like what?
The American Lion and Smilodon are by far my favorite prehistoric mammals and are really cool so I'm happy there's a video on it and as a suggestion could you do Pachyrhinosaurus next
With how lions in captivity can make friends with other animals, now I want to see some artwork of an American lion and a Smilodon chilling together X3
It seems the title of largest cat ever has been shifting due to newer analysis. Smilodon populator, Amphimachairodus kabir and Ngandong tiger (Panthera tigris soloensis) were either given the title as largest cat ever or considered a contender for the title.
I'm sure way back they took a lot of losses but over time as they became more intelligent they must have been some serious bad asses killing all kinds of fauna
I live in Washington state I was driving home from the grocery store last spring And seen the biggest cougar in my life It was a older male crossing the rd It looked twice as large as a normal cougar Usually cougar s run from cars This thing walked with attitude Across the rd I had to come to a complete stop It was in no hurry at all All I seen was a set of chimes the size of saucers I thought touché my friend ;)
This vid is FULL of interesting and is very educational. Really one of the best RUclips vids on extinct animals that I've seen, and I've seen many. Good job!
The bigest femur measured in any big cat (knonw species) is from one Ngandong male Tiger (Panthera tigris soloensis). There are few specimens and the size variation is huge aparently (similar to the modern amur or any tiger in general), but the big males are among the biggest cats known (there is allways a biggest one). P. tigris soloensis 480mm femur P. (leo) fossilis 470mm P. atrox 460mm Weight estimations (maximun) are quite inaccurate, with 470kg for P. soloensis, 450kg for the P. fossilis and 400kg for the P. atrox. It's more conservative to say all of them were somewhere between 350 and 430kg for the big individuals. Btw, the biggest Smilodon populator had a ~450mm femur.
@@Diadema033 biggest tigers recorded are closer to that than we think tbh. For example, there was a captative siberian tiger exceding 110cm to the shoulder, and weighting 430kg (obviously obese). Over 105cm and +300kg in good shape is "quite normal". Even in the wild, +300kg siberians were still common in early-mid 20th century. About historical sizes, looking at some bones measures, biggest femur lenght I know is 429.5mm for a 334.2mm skull (condylobasal lenght, CB), which is not between the biggest ones. That was normal for a big Amur tiger in the past (average size in these cats decreased a lot during the last 70 years due to the indiscriminate hunting, targeting big males specially, and all the human presure in their habitats). Biggest skull in total lenght (GL) measured as much as 406mm. That is clearly over 350mm (CB). Bengal tiger biggest skull is almost the same lenght. So, probably the biggest modern tiggers have been "close" to that Ngandong beast. And still have the potential to reach incredible sizes. But only exceptionaly large ones. African Lions are quite smaller in therms of maximum size-body mass potential, despite they are nowadays similar in average size than both Bengal and Amur tigers. Bengal average size is the biggest indeed. So the biggest Prehistoric cats are arround 25% larger than modern ones. And we will find bigger individuals for sure. For example, there is a really big complete mandible from a pleistocene bornean tiger, which probably represents the biggest skull known for any big cat to this day. The total lenght should be something between 460-480mm (is 1.5x bigger than average tiger). The femur of this beast could be 530mm (1.5 x 353mm mixing the average femur of four tiger species). This is much longer than Ngandong tiger femur but is not 100% accurate and proportions in tigers, specially between species, vary a lot. But you can imagine... In summary and for an easy comparison we could say. Bengal, Amur, African lion reach up to 110cm to the shoulders. Exceptionaly large tigers 115cm (based on the Bones). Both Amur and Bengal arround 320-340kg maximum (without overweight). Panthera atrox, and fossilis should be in the 120cm range or more. With even heavier built than modern tigers. Arround 380-420kg or more. Then Ngandong Tiger should be longer and taller than that but maybe not a lot bigger in size. ~420-450kg (470kg estimation looks a bit off). And average size seems to be smaller than those from P. atrox or P. fossilis. (Some individuals bones are similar in sizes than modern tigers, specially females). Pleistocene bornean tiger skull represents a huge tiger reaching probably arround 130cm to the shoulders. This one could have been in the 480kg range I guess, taking into account they already had the modern tiger features.
@@betofernandez5524 ngandong tigers were no bigger than siberian tigers. do your research and get a life. lions still hold the title of being the biggest and always will. Scientists haven't found a skull definitively identified as a Bornean tiger. Here's why: Lack of fossils: As mentioned earlier, there's no confirmed fossil evidence of tigers ever existing on Borneo. This includes skulls. Dayak beliefs and sightings: While Dayak traditions mention tigers, and there have been reported sightings, these aren't scientific proof. So, the skull you heard about likely belonged to another animal. Borneo has a rich fauna with big cats like the Sunda clouded leopard. It's possible the skull belonged to one of these native species. first of all, you are delusional because the bornean tigers did not exist. you are a fool who believes in fairytales that were told by parents to scare off their children during the ancient times. Scientifically unconfirmed: There's no definitive evidence, like fossils, to prove tigers ever lived on Borneo. Indigenous beliefs: The Dayak people of Borneo hold traditions about tigers, and some report sightings. Historical artifacts: There have been reports of tiger parts found in Borneo, but these could be explained by trade or travel.
@@betofernandez5524 acting all smart and as if though you know a lot? you wasted your time being a biassed and learning wrong information. sure the bornean tiger's skull have been found 💀(ok buddy). "No, there are currently no confirmed Bornean tiger skeletons. As of today's knowledge (June 24, 2024), the existence of a distinct Bornean tiger subspecies isn't scientifically proven. Here's why: Fossil Absence: There haven't been any discoveries of tiger fossils on Borneo, including complete or partial skeletons. Ambiguous Historical Records: Reports of tiger parts found in Borneo could be explained by trade or travel from other regions.(these skulls were small and probably shipped from another country or it was a clouded leopard's skull, this got people confused into thinking it was a tigers because clouded leopards and snow leopards were closely related to tigers more than leopards)
Smilodon had extremely powerful Forearms but there are still quite a few of them that were trapped. So I don't think that's the reason. More likely American lions were more intelligent or more sparsely populated.
Think you could do vid on Pleistocene Giant jaguars they too where an impressive feline of the ice age right up there with the american lion, in fact fossils from the subantarctic giants of ancient Patagonia P. Onca Mesembrina were so huge the initial consensus was that they were fossils of American Lions I love how ancient ice age predators had to grow much large than some of their descendants because the herbivores they lived alongside of where incredibly big.
the american Lion and smilidon and its sub species were the reason the great Jaguar got pushed down to forested areas in southern america.they could not compete.
Kitty! 😍😍 Okay so now that I've shoved my inner crazy cat lady back in the closet, I don't remember seeing this as a kid at the Brea Tarpits, so yeah, smart cat.😂 This came along just as I was sorting it out in my head how successful cats are in general. Thank you for all the fascinating information!
There are lions today who do target and take down subadult elephants so I say it could be possible for the American to go after subadult Mammoths and Mastodons
It’s crazy that they’re much bigger and people think I find it hard to believe that they would run up to 30 mph. They would probably rent run the same speed as a modern lion about 50 mph.
Growing up i watched pbs nature shows. I understood and accepted but i had to change the channel when they got close to their prey. I love cats and dogs and birds of prey. Thanks for great video. Really good never knew.
Great video!👍get a kick out of how everyone knows what the biggest cat was in prehistoric times which means no one knows!😆 I've seen every lecture, video, documentary, bones on all of these cats and everyone seams to have their own theories. things change over the yrs with new discoveries and new fossils and what we think is right today can be wrong tomorrow.
Também foram encontrados fósseis do leão americano na Patagônia Argentina, inclusive pêlos,no Perú e na Colômbia, não era um animal restrito apenas no Norte do continente,mas também como os lobos terríveis, urso da cara curta e smilodon ainda maiores que suas espécies do Norte, estavam também espalhados por todo o Sul do continente
I didn’t know these lions once roamed Canada could you try to cover other fossil animals in Canada please like Tiktaalik or some of the dinosaurs found in Alberta.
This channels so awesome. I’ve always been an environmental and animal geek (tho I don’t retain much information). Read books and explored outdoors in the early 2000s. This channel’s content always tickles my still present curiosity.
The only way anyone could be "certain" of this is if they witnessed this. The vast majority of all species of mammals that ever lived are now extinct, and the majority of extinct species remain unknown to science. Fossilization only occurs under a very narrow set of circumstance and there is no way to determine if any fossils are of the largest individuals of their type. ALL extinct animals may have grown to sizes larger than we have examples of. Granted, there are physical limits that can be determined, based on bone structure and simple physics. YOU may be 100% certain of your information, but meaningless without proof. The certainty exists only in your mind. You being "certain" does proove anything.
Collier, your assertions are meaningless without evidence. There has been multiple peer reviewed studies disproving the American lion being of more mass than the Smilodon populator. You argue from a stance of an appeal to ignorance, as you refuse to accept well proven arguments due to a number of reasons related to your stubbornness. One doesn’t need to exist during the time of these two animals in order to know which one is of more mass.
@@JimmoieieOkay, I'll examine your evidence. Post a link to these multiple peer reviewed studies you speak of and I'll stury them. You try to argue from a stance of superior knowledge yet you also don't comprehend the difference between "evidence" and proof. Sure, a preponderance of evidence can become an ACCEPTED truth, but accepted truths are not absolute truths, and are sometimes shown to be incorrect in the scientific world.
I will post these multiple peer reviewed studies once you come and officially debate me on discord. I argue from a stance of superior knowledge as I’ve been dealing with this topic far longer than you have. You say that I don’t comprehend the difference between evidence and proof, yet you do not provide sufficient warrant in order to substantiate your positive claims. The Smilodon populator being of more mass than the American lion is not of subjective truth but of objective truth. It’s true under all circumstances.
Okay, so you don't have the proof. Just say so. It's okay. There is no "discord." No one can know with certainty what the ultimate size of extinct creatures was, up to the limits of physics. As the one refuting the supposition the burden of proof is on you, not I. @@Jimmoieie
I am so glad I found this video. I’m currently working on a story about the first manticore, and I’m trying to paint him as the “Father of all Lions”, so knowing the size of the biggest lion species definitely helps. I already knew that the Leo variant branched off from the pantera line a little over 2 million years ago, so I can set that as around the time Marchicorus came to Earth and sired the first lions from some of the female panthers, with one of his divine sons, the Persian manticore, coming somewhere around 10000 to 8000 years ago. And with this, I can confidently mark a young adult manticore as at least 11’ long and 1200 lbs. Hmm… should probably make the tail about half again the body length. That way the stinger can be used as a weapon. Anyway, thanks for the video. Now I’ve got an angry lion god to write about.
Indeed, the American lion is close related to modern lions and it is a Lion because the DNA did confirm that it was a lion after Roth not a jaguar or a higher even it’s relative cave lions are closer related to Lions and they are lions as well they probably hunted in prides possibly but smaller
The American lion is NOT a lion. The word 'lion' in the name is not an indication of this (just as American cheetahs are not cheetahs). Only members of Panthera leo are lions. Formerly some authorities _did_ place it with Panthera leo, but current findings and taxonomy distinct place it as its own species; Panthera atrox. The taxonomy of the cave lions (there is more than one, you didn't even specify which!) is unsettled. Some authorities place it within Panthera leo, in which case it _is_ a lion. But others place it as distinct species, in which case, it is _not_ a lion.
@@tyrannotherium7873 Listen, I'm not going to correct that nonsense. I know what I know and have the credentials. I appreciate that message though, as it allows me to mute you from the menu.
What you’ve just asserted can be dismissed via Hitchen’s razor as what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If a claim asserts the existence of something and is not provided sufficient warrant in order to verify it, it is baseless and conjectural.
They found their bones around human settlements because early Americans domesticated them and rode them around like He Man. The humans would hunt Mammoths with spears while riding these giant lions. Battle Cat.
Considering one country and not an entire continent (Africa) no other country even comes remotely close to India when it comes to insane animals Add to that 1.4 Billion people. No wonder it tops the chart of any animal related human deaths.
Even though, they are not natural animals, I think Ligers are impressive hybrid creatures that could rivaled even the largest prehistoric cats in size. The largest one Nook weighted over 550 Kg.
But those aren't wild animals, ligers are too overweight, slow, and overheat easily to survive in the wild. Basically, it is comparing a couch potato to an athlete. Sure, the couch potato weighs more but Is it really impressive?
True, but Nook was a grossly overfed FAT liger. More impressive (well, to me) is the biggest Manchurian tiger, over 850 lbs. (386 kgs.) And that was a WILD animal.
I knew they were bigger than modern african lions but I did not expect to them to be as big as the brown bears, except faster ,stealthier, and more agile. It is a shame they did not get to live until today
Great video, I appreciate the detail that was put into this. However Amphimachairodus (some African and Asian species) and smilodon populator were larger. It also is a lion species, the common ancestor between American lion, cave lion and modern lion is the panthera fossilis. This is the ancestor of all lions. We can see from cave art and dna testing that cave lions where lions, with this being the ancestor of the panthera atrox it is logical to assume it is a lion. There has also been skin of the lion found which show it’s a lion.
@@Shhhhh432 From the other thread. "I’ve seen ur thread Ian. Your wrong." - Lay it out, that way you have some substance... ------------------- "Ian you seem very bored. Maybe apply for some more hours at zoo, I heard they’ve upped your wage from 10 to 11 dollars an hour." - Instead what you have done is shown yourself to be a vacuous ignoramus, not worth the oxygen you consume The clown is muted.
You got some wrong info regarding the American lion weight that 2012 study exagerated the weight using anyonge formula with dubious weight coming in 523 kgs, scientist and well accurate estimates put the average weight at 255 kgs and max being 351 kgs, it was big but not that big compared to the south american smilodon it was way bigger than atrox.
@@SaviourGallate15 and that's just the average. The American lion was massive, bigger than all living big cats. People are so stupid, they compare an American lion to a Siberian tiger and they think a Siberian tiger is bigger😂. Siberian tiger is nothing compared to that.
Great video,Enjoyed it immensely.Loved the images that went with it.Wonder were the artists got their ideas,the images seemed potentially accurate. I imagine those creatures must have been an awesome sight.
None of these cats were as big as a polar bear. They said that for dramatic effect. All estimates have a Smilodon popular around 700-800 LBS. Where an adult male polar bear can weigh anywhere from 1000-1700 LBS.
"None of these cats were as big as a polar bear. They said that for dramatic effect" - you fail to understand what was _actually_ stated - here's a comment I responded to earlier, along with my reply. Take note. ----------- "Damn I had no idea smilodon outclasses a polar bear in size and weight. A friggin bear....and the lion is bigger than that" - There you go! I listened to the relevant bit of the video and immediately thought 'some people are going to mangle that as meaning it is larger than a polar bear'. THEY ARE NOT! A simple sentence that has you misunderstanding the facts! LISTEN properly to what is stated at 3:58. He is stating MAX. weight of Smilodon compared to AVERAGE weight of an 'adult polar bear'. Note the wording doesn't even specify MALE polar bear, it just says 'adult polar bear' (although it is in fact slightly above average for current male polar bear AVERAGE size). So, all that is being stated is that at MAX weight, the Smilodon (only the largest Smilodon species is this size, which wasn't specified) is larger than 'the AVERAGE adult polar bear'. Once ABOVE average size male polar bears are considered, it is comfortably larger overall.
@@Shhhhh432 From the other thread. "I’ve seen ur thread Ian. Your wrong." - Lay it out, that way you have some substance... ------------------- "Ian you seem very bored. Maybe apply for some more hours at zoo, I heard they’ve upped your wage from 10 to 11 dollars an hour." - Instead what you have done is shown yourself to be a vacuous ignoramus, not worth the oxygen you consume The clown is muted.
Let’s go. My favorite cat of all time! But, I just thought of something: if lions are the closest thing we got to the American Lion, then could a small population of modern lions survive in America?
As long as they're in a place with enough sufficiently sized prey to hunt and access to water, lions could basically survive anywhere. They're already living life on hard mode being on the African serengeti. Virtually anywhere else that isn't like a desert or extreme cold environment should be easier than what they currently do. The biggest danger to them here would be that they start getting into human livestock too much and get killed by us for it.
Neither lions are the largest land carnivore nor P.atrox was the largest cat of all time. I thought this channel was scientifically accurate but now the admin exposed himself to a lying lion fanboy with angenda! Such shame! The 2009 study actually decreased the size of american lion, there was a 2012 study which suggested bigger weights for p.atrox but that paper is heavily disputed.
Ur right the largest cats are Amphimachairodus (Asian and African) and the smilodon populator. Still a well made video, with good detail doesn’t deserve and unsub
You're forgetting Siberian Tigers, Siberian Tigers are larger than African lions... it is the largest Natural Living Cat... so in the beginning you calling the African lion the largest is wrong.
@@THELIONMAN7Yes nowadays they are smaller than African lions, because they shrinked. Back then I think siberian tigers were much larger and were the largest cats alive. That's prob why people are so used to saying "the siberian tiger is the largest big cat alive." Now it's just between the African lion and the Bengal Tiger.
@@THELIONMAN7 nope, Lions just have bigger head, jaw (males). Tigers are bigger and heavier than Lions, they also have stronger bites force compared to Lions. If they fight, Tigers are the winners.
I loved your video - THANK YOU! It was informative & beautifully illustrated. However, I have one major disagreement with your video info. That is, the American lion (Panthera atrox) is NOT the largest feline in existence. The South American species of sabertooth, Smilodon populator, was (without question) bigger & heavier, as was a more ancient sabertooth cat named Machairodus kabir. The ancestral Eurasian steppe lion (Panthera fossilis) was roughly the same size as P atrox. And I believe the ‘Ngandong’ tiger (Panthera tigris soloensis) was slightly smaller. Apart from that, the video is accurate.
I’d love to know more details about specific specimens: where, when and how were they found and in what conditions? And what about that coat specimen?????? I know that would make a much longer video but I always want to know that stuff. These are great!! Thank you !!!
“Lack of a developed mane” Do you have a fully furred American lion for reference or is it just the jawbone that was telling you how big the mane was? 😂
@@chrisdonish We live with brown bears, grizzly bears, black bears, and polar bears while the people of Asia live with tigers and sun bears and Africans live with their own lions and leopards. We would manage them similarly, I think.
The giant armadillo didn't seem to be very concerned. I like the picture of the wolf with its leg snipped off. American lions must have had A.I. enhanced alignment of the inscisers. : )
The sense estimates seem reasonable... donkeys can hear sounds made up to five miles away. I have donkeys, ride them, and can verify that they can and do hear sounds that far away. Fascinating story on the American lion. 🎉
Like its genetic relative (the cave lion), Panthera atrox was probably a pride feline. Cave art seems to confirm the connection. Where team work guides circumstance, the cats affinity for open grassland only reinforces the hypothesis. Their scarcity in the tar pits also points towards packing behaviour. Smilodon seems to have been the common casualty, as opposed to the survivor.
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Crazy to imagine the competition this animal had to face during this time. (European Cave lion) Panthera Spelaea, North American Jaguar, Homotherium, Smilodon fatalis, American Cheetah(although it’s more cougar like), Dire Wolves, North American Dhole, North American Short faced bear, Giant Polar Bear(Ursus Maritimus Tyrannus). Then of course morden day species that survived the ice age like the Brown Bear and their various subspecies, American black bears, Modern day Cougars, Grey Wolves, Eurasian Lynx, modern polar bears and coyotes.Must of been a sight to see
Cave lions and American lions didn't really overlap in range, the American lion was south of the ice sheet
Makes sense to why they were grew to be so large.
U. m. tyrannus is not a simply brown bear subfossil?
@@marcosalerno4254 as of right now it could be a possibility once DNA testing could be done then they’ll know for sure. Most assume it to be a polar bear however
@@chir0pter oh ok thought I figured so since both Panthera spelaea and panthera atrox fossils was both found in Alaska and Yukon
Actually, the American lion is rare at the tar pits is because that it lived in more open habitat on the tar pits are in forested areas. The short face bear was also a rare animal at the tar pit as well.
I’ve been to la brea site, I fully recommend going there, all near downtown LA
@@RB-pm2ni I would love to go there myself
It was probably also intelligent enough to recognize the deadly traps and avoid them.
@@RB-pm2ni La Brea is La Brea St., which intersects Wilshire south of Hollywood: Not DTLA.
Like its genetic relative, Panthera atrox was probably a pride feline. Cave art seems to confirm the connection. Where team work guides circumstance, the cats affinity for open grassland only reinforces the hypothesis.
Their scarcity in the tar pits also points towards packing behaviour. Smilodon seems to have been the common casualty, as opposed to the survivor.
Holy moly. That's a scary cat. Glad I don't live along side it. Between it in the savannah areas and that big ass bear in the wooded areas, it's a wonder humans survived in the Americas at all.
Big cats are no match for a good pointy stick and a little teamwork.
@@Uncle_Fred Tell that to the folks at Tsavo
@@Uncle_Fred Don't forget big game dog packs.
Maybe a source of human paranoia. Always looking over your shoulder for these fantastic creatures. Respect for all our ancestors.
@@Uncle_Fred you say that now , but if we give you and four of your friends pointy sticks and then send you to Africa to fight lions , you all are gonna end up dead AF
What a mighty meow-meow
Cutest statement ever 😂
They roared not meowed because it is from panthera and every cat from the genus panthera roars.
@@jaydenlee7913 I bet they can meow like the Orange murder cow, the Tiger 😂
FR
A puuurocious pouncer
The first humans to enter the Americas really did have their hands full when it comes to predators. Fascinating
It's crazy to think that brainpower was able to make up for how weak and slow we are in comparison to a lot of other animals 😅 we got blessed big time
@@Hawkeye83627 It wasn't just our intelligence but our dietary habits and physical adaptability to climate change helped us outlive most of the more resource expensive animals
Who says humans weren’t already in the Americas before anybody (came) here
@@180mmTV Im pretty sure humans originated in Africa, I'm not sure what you mean or what period you are talking about
@@ama5598nobody knows were humans came from but we know The human nature doesn't change, it's observable in all eight billion of us living today and in all recorded history.
Human nature didn't evolve from something else and it will naver evolve to something else
Never thought i would hear about a lion that was more then half a ton , that is epic .
THE NANDAGONG! TIGERS' WERE BIGGER ! HEAVIER TOO. PEOPLE HERE NEED TO ACTUALLY STUDY
If they were still around today thousands of people would be attacked every year trying to get selfies.
@@captainamericaamerica8090 geez relax. Do you have a source?
@@captainamericaamerica8090 No, they were believed to have maxed out at 400kg.
@@mattmorris9283 Yes but his video is saying Lions are the largest when tigers are significantly larger than Lions. I think the largest cat today is actually a Liger.
Good Saturday morning lesson - I am seventy one and i can't get enough of this stuff. It fires my imagination - I love learning.
The American lion (Panthera atrox) is the largest Panthera species in terms of average sizes, and alongside Smilodon populator is a contender for the title of largest cat ever. Weight estimates range from between 800 to 1000 pounds. While overall similar to a lion, there were some anatomical differences; American lions had relatively longer legs (in fact, they’re the most cursorial of all Panthera species, though they still likely relied heavily on ambush), and their skull and jaws were far more powerfully built, almost resembling a greatly enlarged jaguar in head shape. Presumably, this means that American lions had the same crushing bite as a jaguar, albeit on a much larger scale. In fact, there was some speculation that American lions were more closely related to jaguars, but genetic studies have disproven this.
Since the American lion was closely related to the lion, and is even more closely related to-in fact, likely descended from-the cave lion (Panthera spelea), we can extrapolate some details of its paleobiology and behaviour. It was almost certainly an animal of grasslands and open woodland, and almost certainly preyed mostly on large ungulates using ambush tactics (though, as mentioned above, they would be able to sprint for somewhat longer distances than lions due to proportionately longer legs). Due to their large size they would likely be able to tackle bison or mammoth calves singlehandedly, and if they were social (see below) they may even have taken down adult woolly mammoths in rare cases.
There is some question as to how social American lions would be compared to lions; it’s inferred that cave lions were less social than lions, living either alone or in much smaller prides depending on the location. American lions are likely descended from the easternmost population of cave lions, which were likely more social than other populations, so it’s possible to assume that American lions lived in small prides of one male and a few females. Since they were probably less social than lions, American lions also likely had much smaller (possibly nonexistent) manes compared to lions.
The cave lion was a social animal, we can see from cave art that it was at least as social as African lions. I think it’s logical to assume both panthera atrox and spelea were both very similar to modern lions and operated in the same niche. They are both species of panthera Leo. Also I must point out that the largest cats to ever exist is the Amphimachairodus, Machairodus and smilodon populator. The Asian species of amphimachairdous and the African species of Machairdous.
Isn't the mosbach lion bigger?
I’m not trying to argue but I read one paper where the authors suggested the American lion descended from P. Fosillis instead of Spelaea. Which would mean that Fosillis gave rise to both. Just a thought and slightly interesting.
@@soudino2723 mosbach lion is an unscientific name of the panthera fossilis, which was very large. Slightly larger than the American lion or of very similar size. The American lion was not over 400kg at max. Only older studies put it at over 400kg.
@@rahimjoseph211 nah mate no arguing here we are just guys interested in something we’ll never know the answer to. I mean the panthera fossilis evolved in Africa and the moved to Europe and went extinct by the late/middle Pleistocene. It sounds pretty illogical considering the first fossils of American lion are 300,000 years old and Africa does not connect to the Americas so I don’t see how that’s possible to be honest.
Really well done and informative! As a fan-boy of the pleistocene epoch, I already knew most of the information except that a preserved piece of flesh with hair has been recovered. In my humble opinion, this cat was almost certainly solitary in nature - similar to the vast majority of extant panthera. The largest members of Atrox must have been nothing short of awesome.
In my opinion, I think related males would've been in duos, and females would've been solitary, similar to cheetahs. Although they wouldn't have been in groups exceeding 2 since they're already a dominant apex predator.
@@zadas1132 Plausible.
Haha duos, don’t use ur imagination when thinking about these things. I believe it’s logical to assume they were a pack animal. Panthera Leo atrox was a lion, we also know it directly descended from panthera spelea. We know this is a pack animal, I believe it’s logical to assume they where pack animals and certainly not this duos and other stuff that’s just imagination
@@Shhhhh432 You realize that lions also form duos? No imagination necessary here. Typically its the males that do this. If the American lion was a pack hunter then it's likely to have behaved similarly, depending on the abundance of prey in the area.
I'd be logical to assume it was until you consider their immense size and strength would make it less necessary if not unpractical to live in large groups, being easily twice the size of their ancestors.
@@ZombieBariothfirstly yes your right. However African lions being in duos not the typical. It happens often, just as lions move in trios and move solo. I’m sure if they were a social animal there would have been American lions in duos, however I think it’s illogical and imaginative to think for whatever reason this was the norm. The matter of their size is due to size of competitors and the size of the prey available. If an American lion pride took down an ice age bison, this is much more food than an African wilderbeast.
I had heard of the American Lion but this is the first time I've seen any in-depth video about them. I hope you've got videos about the other, lesser-known, American felines, the American cheetah and the American leopard or, if you don't have them already, I hope you intend to make videos about them in the near future.
There were no leopards in North america at all.
@@jaydenlee7913 That goes against what I've read from paleontologists. Of course, they aren't certain whether or not the cats they found were leopards or jaguars. It could be that the cats that I've heard of leopards could be like the "lions"; similar in many ways but different in many ways.
I've never heard of big cats in north America we couldn't tell if they were leopards or jaguars. What is the name of the big cat we couldn't tell if it was a leopard or a jaguar?
@@drivernjax Uhhh, it's pretty easy to distinguish between leopards and jaguars.
@@jaydenlee7913 Mountain Lions (aka Pumas) inhabit both North and South America, with big males approachig 200 lbs. in weight. An outsize idividual was weighed at 276 lbs. (125 kgs.) There are also Jaguars in Mexico (actually part of North America) and a few in the S/W USA and these can be 300 lbs. (136kgs). How is it that you've never heard of big cats in North America?
This guys videos are great gets straight to the point tells you some interesting information and doesn't drag out into a 30 min plus video. Top notch work .
The bite force of the American lion wasn’t 3 times greater than an Morden lion because the bite force of a morden lion is about 1000psi not the 650 psi that was done on a sub adult.
Exactly
There's no official data showing that except some lion fanatics preaching it
@@pokemonitishere202 the nat geo the ones who did the Original test on the sub adult lion said that a fully grown lion would be around 1000psi tho, so the source that showed the 650psi you guys like to use so much admitted 3 different times that the actual bite force of a grown mature adult would be around 1000psi. Like what?
@@pokemonitishere202 Not to mention the fact the sub adult lion may have not bitten with its full force.
Lions can easily reach a bite force of more than 1000 pounds at the carnassials.
That skull comparison @2:17 is simultaneously astonishing and terrifying 😲
Thank you for taken the time to make the videos, I enjoy watching & getting new knowledge about prehistoric life
The American Lion and Smilodon are by far my favorite prehistoric mammals and are really cool so I'm happy there's a video on it and as a suggestion could you do Pachyrhinosaurus next
With how lions in captivity can make friends with other animals, now I want to see some artwork of an American lion and a Smilodon chilling together
X3
It seems the title of largest cat ever has been shifting due to newer analysis. Smilodon populator, Amphimachairodus kabir and Ngandong tiger (Panthera tigris soloensis) were either given the title as largest cat ever or considered a contender for the title.
How about the Mosbach Lion
Liger
How about American lion, which could reach up to 520kg (1,153lbs) Or even higher.@@RyoSargeant
ngandong tigers were no bigger than siberian tigers. get a life and do your research
@@EternalEmperorofZakuul ligers are pure fat and their weight isnt healthy, they are mostly obese. dont compare obese cats to other cats.
Garfield is largest
On account of his diet…
Lasagna definitely builds muscle.
And fat… lots of fat.
“Why do you have a picture of president garfield?”
“Because I love lasagna”
Man ancient Native Americans must have been some really tough people dealing with all these giant species that existed at the time.
exactly! where the hell could you run to? 😆
I'm sure way back they took a lot of losses but over time as they became more intelligent they must have been some serious bad asses killing all kinds of fauna
they toke the "your trap in here with me". approach
I live in Washington state
I was driving home from the grocery store last spring
And seen the biggest cougar in my life
It was a older male crossing the rd
It looked twice as large as a normal cougar
Usually cougar s run from cars
This thing walked with attitude
Across the rd
I had to come to a complete stop
It was in no hurry at all
All I seen was a set of chimes the size of saucers
I thought touché my friend ;)
My favorite extinct cat species do one on Cave Lions or Cave Bears next! Please love your videos btw
Fan of Jean M. Auel maybe🧐
Very well done, especially the graphics. My favorite illustration is the one including a VW Beatle and a human silhouette!
This vid is FULL of interesting and is very educational. Really one of the best RUclips vids on extinct animals that I've seen, and I've seen many. Good job!
The bigest femur measured in any big cat (knonw species) is from one Ngandong male Tiger (Panthera tigris soloensis). There are few specimens and the size variation is huge aparently (similar to the modern amur or any tiger in general), but the big males are among the biggest cats known (there is allways a biggest one).
P. tigris soloensis 480mm femur
P. (leo) fossilis 470mm
P. atrox 460mm
Weight estimations (maximun) are quite inaccurate, with 470kg for P. soloensis, 450kg for the P. fossilis and 400kg for the P. atrox.
It's more conservative to say all of them were somewhere between 350 and 430kg for the big individuals.
Btw, the biggest Smilodon populator had a ~450mm femur.
What about the modern lions or tigers?
@@Diadema033 biggest tigers recorded are closer to that than we think tbh.
For example, there was a captative siberian tiger exceding 110cm to the shoulder, and weighting 430kg (obviously obese). Over 105cm and +300kg in good shape is "quite normal". Even in the wild, +300kg siberians were still common in early-mid 20th century.
About historical sizes, looking at some bones measures, biggest femur lenght I know is 429.5mm for a 334.2mm skull (condylobasal lenght, CB), which is not between the biggest ones. That was normal for a big Amur tiger in the past (average size in these cats decreased a lot during the last 70 years due to the indiscriminate hunting, targeting big males specially, and all the human presure in their habitats).
Biggest skull in total lenght (GL) measured as much as 406mm. That is clearly over 350mm (CB). Bengal tiger biggest skull is almost the same lenght.
So, probably the biggest modern tiggers have been "close" to that Ngandong beast. And still have the potential to reach incredible sizes. But only exceptionaly large ones.
African Lions are quite smaller in therms of maximum size-body mass potential, despite they are nowadays similar in average size than both Bengal and Amur tigers. Bengal average size is the biggest indeed.
So the biggest Prehistoric cats are arround 25% larger than modern ones. And we will find bigger individuals for sure.
For example, there is a really big complete mandible from a pleistocene bornean tiger, which probably represents the biggest skull known for any big cat to this day. The total lenght should be something between 460-480mm (is 1.5x bigger than average tiger). The femur of this beast could be 530mm (1.5 x 353mm mixing the average femur of four tiger species). This is much longer than Ngandong tiger femur but is not 100% accurate and proportions in tigers, specially between species, vary a lot. But you can imagine...
In summary and for an easy comparison we could say.
Bengal, Amur, African lion reach up to 110cm to the shoulders. Exceptionaly large tigers 115cm (based on the Bones). Both Amur and Bengal arround 320-340kg maximum (without overweight).
Panthera atrox, and fossilis should be in the 120cm range or more. With even heavier built than modern tigers. Arround 380-420kg or more.
Then Ngandong Tiger should be longer and taller than that but maybe not a lot bigger in size. ~420-450kg (470kg estimation looks a bit off). And average size seems to be smaller than those from P. atrox or P. fossilis. (Some individuals bones are similar in sizes than modern tigers, specially females).
Pleistocene bornean tiger skull represents a huge tiger reaching probably arround 130cm to the shoulders. This one could have been in the 480kg range I guess, taking into account they already had the modern tiger features.
@@betofernandez5524 ngandong tigers were no bigger than siberian tigers. do your research and get a life. lions still hold the title of being the biggest and always will.
Scientists haven't found a skull definitively identified as a Bornean tiger. Here's why:
Lack of fossils: As mentioned earlier, there's no confirmed fossil evidence of tigers ever existing on Borneo. This includes skulls.
Dayak beliefs and sightings: While Dayak traditions mention tigers, and there have been reported sightings, these aren't scientific proof.
So, the skull you heard about likely belonged to another animal. Borneo has a rich fauna with big cats like the Sunda clouded leopard. It's possible the skull belonged to one of these native species.
first of all, you are delusional because the bornean tigers did not exist. you are a fool who believes in fairytales that were told by parents to scare off their children during the ancient times.
Scientifically unconfirmed: There's no definitive evidence, like fossils, to prove tigers ever lived on Borneo.
Indigenous beliefs: The Dayak people of Borneo hold traditions about tigers, and some report sightings.
Historical artifacts: There have been reports of tiger parts found in Borneo, but these could be explained by trade or travel.
@@betofernandez5524
acting all smart and as if though you know a lot? you wasted your time being a biassed and learning wrong information. sure the bornean tiger's skull have been found 💀(ok buddy).
"No, there are currently no confirmed Bornean tiger skeletons. As of today's knowledge (June 24, 2024), the existence of a distinct Bornean tiger subspecies isn't scientifically proven.
Here's why:
Fossil Absence: There haven't been any discoveries of tiger fossils on Borneo, including complete or partial skeletons.
Ambiguous Historical Records: Reports of tiger parts found in Borneo could be explained by trade or travel from other regions.(these skulls were small and probably shipped from another country or it was a clouded leopard's skull, this got people confused into thinking it was a tigers because clouded leopards and snow leopards were closely related to tigers more than leopards)
@@betofernandez5524The ngandog tiger is actually smaller
American Lion did not get stuck in the tar pits is perhaps because of it's extremely strong fore arms.
Smilodon had extremely powerful Forearms but there are still quite a few of them that were trapped. So I don't think that's the reason. More likely American lions were more intelligent or more sparsely populated.
Loved it! I’ve been fascinated by this stuff since I was a kid.
Think you could do vid on Pleistocene Giant jaguars they too where an impressive feline of the ice age right up there with the american lion, in fact fossils from the subantarctic giants of ancient Patagonia P. Onca Mesembrina were so huge the initial consensus was that they were fossils of American Lions
I love how ancient ice age predators had to grow much large than some of their descendants because the herbivores they lived alongside of where incredibly big.
the american Lion and smilidon and its sub species were the reason the great Jaguar got pushed down to forested areas in southern america.they could not compete.
@@ashleyoasis7948 which great jaguar?
American lion bones have been found at the boneyard at Fairbanks Alaska
I've been waiting for more videos on the American big cats for years.
Nice Murder Meow must have been quite the UNIT
A veritable monster of a Meow.
Whoa. I'm so glad I found you. Fantastic narration
The level of accurate information is just so entertaining to watch man
Love your videos
HE' NEEDS TO STUDY MORE! HE'S WRONG AGAIN
Just binged the last like 8 videos you posted. Excellent timing with this upload lol
Holy shit, that’s a magnificent cat!
Kitty! 😍😍 Okay so now that I've shoved my inner crazy cat lady back in the closet, I don't remember seeing this as a kid at the Brea Tarpits, so yeah, smart cat.😂 This came along just as I was sorting it out in my head how successful cats are in general. Thank you for all the fascinating information!
Same reaction
I'm convinced cats have most humans on a spell at this point😂
My exact reaction as well. 😍
There are lions today who do target and take down subadult elephants so I say it could be possible for the American to go after subadult Mammoths and Mastodons
Amazing production. Thanks. Would be good to see one focussed on ‘the last sabre tooth’. Through evolution to evidence of the last specimens 13:00
It’s crazy that they’re much bigger and people think I find it hard to believe that they would run up to 30 mph. They would probably rent run the same speed as a modern lion about 50 mph.
Larger mass and built more like a jaguar, so it would be around 40 something more or less
@@loserorangeorvoremonster8047
Actually, it had long legs because it lived in open country. If you look at the bone structure, it’s like legs gracile.
@@tyrannotherium7873The past tense of run is ran, not rent.
@@a-lambo-boi lol my phone is a pain in the ass my bad
Well some dinosaurs runextremely fast. weight doesnt really matter for speed power does
@@loserorangeorvoremonster8047
Cars will always be my favorite animals, from the smallest house cats and sand cats to the largest murder meow meows. Thanks dude!
Big fan of the younger dryas impact theory as a cause for extinction. Great vid!
Human impact must be factored in. Natural climate change is much less likely to completely eradicate a species than this.
4:18 lmao that Smilodon looking like ah shiz man, I'm a big cat but dats a BIIIIG CAT!!!
Pretty cool feline, I’d love to see one in a museum.
Do the thylacoleo next, they were so cool and very under appreciated.
Can you imagine a cat that weighs more than a polar bear? That's amazing to think about...
Listen to that bit carefully, it does not state that, for average sizes.
The American lion had an average of 256 kgs and a maximum of possibly 400+ kgs for males. An average foxe basin male polar bear has a mass of 550 kgs.
Growing up i watched pbs nature shows. I understood and accepted but i had to change the channel when they got close to their prey. I love cats and dogs and birds of prey.
Thanks for great video. Really good never knew.
Great video!👍get a kick out of how everyone knows what the biggest cat was in prehistoric times which means no one knows!😆 I've seen every lecture, video, documentary, bones on all of these cats and everyone seams to have their own theories. things change over the yrs with new discoveries and new fossils and what we think is right today can be wrong tomorrow.
4:51 they came with a cctv camera on their hip bones? Jeez that’s some next evolutionary trait now they’ve got eyes on the back.
Também foram encontrados fósseis do leão americano na Patagônia Argentina, inclusive pêlos,no Perú e na Colômbia, não era um animal restrito apenas no Norte do continente,mas também como os lobos terríveis, urso da cara curta e smilodon ainda maiores que suas espécies do Norte, estavam também espalhados por todo o Sul do continente
Thank you for this information! 🙏
Lilled it loved it,thats the one part of my childhood that i would refuse yo let go of,simply amazing,good job!
I didn’t know these lions once roamed Canada could you try to cover other fossil animals in Canada please like Tiktaalik or some of the dinosaurs found in Alberta.
This channels so awesome. I’ve always been an environmental and animal geek (tho I don’t retain much information). Read books and explored outdoors in the early 2000s. This channel’s content always tickles my still present curiosity.
I say this with 100 percent certainty. Smilodon populator was substantially heavier than the American lion.
The only way anyone could be "certain" of this is if they witnessed this. The vast majority of all species of mammals that ever lived are now extinct, and the majority of extinct species remain unknown to science. Fossilization only occurs under a very narrow set of circumstance and there is no way to determine if any fossils are of the largest individuals of their type. ALL extinct animals may have grown to sizes larger than we have examples of. Granted, there are physical limits that can be determined, based on bone structure and simple physics. YOU may be 100% certain of your information, but meaningless without proof. The certainty exists only in your mind. You being "certain" does proove anything.
Collier, your assertions are meaningless without evidence. There has been multiple peer reviewed studies disproving the American lion being of more mass than the Smilodon populator. You argue from a stance of an appeal to ignorance, as you refuse to accept well proven arguments due to a number of reasons related to your stubbornness. One doesn’t need to exist during the time of these two animals in order to know which one is of more mass.
@@JimmoieieOkay, I'll examine your evidence. Post a link to these multiple peer reviewed studies you speak of and I'll stury them. You try to argue from a stance of superior knowledge yet you also don't comprehend the difference between "evidence" and proof. Sure, a preponderance of evidence can become an ACCEPTED truth, but accepted truths are not absolute truths, and are sometimes shown to be incorrect in the scientific world.
I will post these multiple peer reviewed studies once you come and officially debate me on discord. I argue from a stance of superior knowledge as I’ve been dealing with this topic far longer than you have. You say that I don’t comprehend the difference between evidence and proof, yet you do not provide sufficient warrant in order to substantiate your positive claims. The Smilodon populator being of more mass than the American lion is not of subjective truth but of objective truth. It’s true under all circumstances.
Okay, so you don't have the proof. Just say so. It's okay. There is no "discord." No one can know with certainty what the ultimate size of extinct creatures was, up to the limits of physics. As the one refuting the supposition the burden of proof is on you, not I. @@Jimmoieie
I am so glad I found this video. I’m currently working on a story about the first manticore, and I’m trying to paint him as the “Father of all Lions”, so knowing the size of the biggest lion species definitely helps. I already knew that the Leo variant branched off from the pantera line a little over 2 million years ago, so I can set that as around the time Marchicorus came to Earth and sired the first lions from some of the female panthers, with one of his divine sons, the Persian manticore, coming somewhere around 10000 to 8000 years ago. And with this, I can confidently mark a young adult manticore as at least 11’ long and 1200 lbs. Hmm… should probably make the tail about half again the body length. That way the stinger can be used as a weapon.
Anyway, thanks for the video. Now I’ve got an angry lion god to write about.
Indeed, the American lion is close related to modern lions and it is a Lion because the DNA did confirm that it was a lion after Roth not a jaguar or a higher even it’s relative cave lions are closer related to Lions and they are lions as well they probably hunted in prides possibly but smaller
The American lion is NOT a lion. The word 'lion' in the name is not an indication of this (just as American cheetahs are not cheetahs). Only members of Panthera leo are lions. Formerly some authorities _did_ place it with Panthera leo, but current findings and taxonomy distinct place it as its own species; Panthera atrox.
The taxonomy of the cave lions (there is more than one, you didn't even specify which!) is unsettled. Some authorities place it within Panthera leo, in which case it _is_ a lion. But others place it as distinct species, in which case, it is _not_ a lion.
@@Dr.Ian-Plect actually, the DNA confirm that it was a lion is even an article that even debunked it how does suggesting that it is a lion after all
@@tyrannotherium7873 Yeah, it's clear you are not worth engaging. Muted.
@@Dr.Ian-Plect and it’s clearly that you are not educated on
@@tyrannotherium7873 Listen, I'm not going to correct that nonsense. I know what I know and have the credentials. I appreciate that message though, as it allows me to mute you from the menu.
Thank you, Al Gore Rhythm for suggesting this channel. 🙏🏻
Extinctzoo - you are my favorite paleo channel. Thank you for great content!
Ngl if this dude gets better sound quality on his vids he’s gonna blow up
My favorite prehistoric mammal
2:40 - That’s adorable 🥰
I thought that the largest felid was the extinct Ngandong tiger that inhabited the now mostly submerged Sundaland shelf during the Pleistocene epoch.
Honestly it’s anyone’s guess, people say it’s a toss up between the ngandong tiger, American lion or smilodon populator
Tigers🐯 Were Never the Largest Felines.
@@johnnytightlips991 certainly not American lion, it’s either smilodon populator, amphimachairdous or ngandong tiger
@@divinepraise6931apart from today which they are
What you’ve just asserted can be dismissed via Hitchen’s razor as what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If a claim asserts the existence of something and is not provided sufficient warrant in order to verify it, it is baseless and conjectural.
That's a great cat right there.
They found their bones around human settlements because early Americans domesticated them and rode them around like He Man. The humans would hunt Mammoths with spears while riding these giant lions. Battle Cat.
😂😂😂
While Australia and Africa seemingly have the most insane creatures today, Throughout history America has had the most gnarly creatures of all time
Asia
Considering one country and not an entire continent (Africa) no other country even comes remotely close to India when it comes to insane animals Add to that 1.4 Billion people. No wonder it tops the chart of any animal related human deaths.
Even though, they are not natural animals, I think Ligers are impressive hybrid creatures that could rivaled even the largest prehistoric cats in size. The largest one Nook weighted over 550 Kg.
But those aren't wild animals, ligers are too overweight, slow, and overheat easily to survive in the wild. Basically, it is comparing a couch potato to an athlete. Sure, the couch potato weighs more but Is it really impressive?
True, but Nook was a grossly overfed FAT liger. More impressive (well, to me) is the biggest Manchurian tiger, over 850 lbs. (386 kgs.) And that was a WILD animal.
@@theo21021 liger s aren't obese they only get obese when they get overfed. Nook the liger was overfed but yet he lived for 21 years
I knew they were bigger than modern african lions but I did not expect to them to be as big as the brown bears, except faster ,stealthier, and more agile. It is a shame they did not get to live until today
Great video, I appreciate the detail that was put into this. However Amphimachairodus (some African and Asian species) and smilodon populator were larger. It also is a lion species, the common ancestor between American lion, cave lion and modern lion is the panthera fossilis. This is the ancestor of all lions. We can see from cave art and dna testing that cave lions where lions, with this being the ancestor of the panthera atrox it is logical to assume it is a lion. There has also been skin of the lion found which show it’s a lion.
Nonsense, as I've laid out in the other thread.
@@Dr.Ian-PlectI’ve seen ur thread Ian. Your wrong.
@@Shhhhh432 Lay it out, that way you have some substance...
@@Shhhhh432 From the other thread.
"I’ve seen ur thread Ian. Your wrong."
- Lay it out, that way you have some substance...
-------------------
"Ian you seem very bored. Maybe apply for some more hours at zoo, I heard they’ve upped your wage from 10 to 11 dollars an hour."
- Instead what you have done is shown yourself to be a vacuous ignoramus, not worth the oxygen you consume
The clown is muted.
@@Dr.Ian-Plect I did mate check what I sent you
Really nice video. Full of information, professional and engaging.
You got some wrong info regarding the American lion weight that 2012 study exagerated the weight using anyonge formula with dubious weight coming in 523 kgs, scientist and well accurate estimates put the average weight at 255 kgs and max being 351 kgs, it was big but not that big compared to the south american smilodon it was way bigger than atrox.
Correct.
Lion would still win in a fight, smildons teeth fall out very easily
256kg for American lion average weight it's still bigger than a Bengal tiger or African lion on average
@@SaviourGallate15 and that's just the average. The American lion was massive, bigger than all living big cats. People are so stupid, they compare an American lion to a Siberian tiger and they think a Siberian tiger is bigger😂. Siberian tiger is nothing compared to that.
@@BehnamAshur damm, just who the checks compare the Siberian tiger to an American lion that's crazy.
Great video,Enjoyed it immensely.Loved the images that went with it.Wonder were the artists got their ideas,the images seemed potentially accurate. I imagine those creatures must have been an awesome sight.
None of these cats were as big as a polar bear. They said that for dramatic effect. All estimates have a Smilodon popular around 700-800 LBS. Where an adult male polar bear can weigh anywhere from 1000-1700 LBS.
"None of these cats were as big as a polar bear. They said that for dramatic effect"
- you fail to understand what was _actually_ stated
- here's a comment I responded to earlier, along with my reply. Take note.
-----------
"Damn I had no idea smilodon outclasses a polar bear in size and weight. A friggin bear....and the lion is bigger than that"
- There you go! I listened to the relevant bit of the video and immediately thought 'some people are going to mangle that as meaning it is larger than a polar bear'.
THEY ARE NOT!
A simple sentence that has you misunderstanding the facts! LISTEN properly to what is stated at 3:58. He is stating MAX. weight of Smilodon compared to AVERAGE weight of an 'adult polar bear'. Note the wording doesn't even specify MALE polar bear, it just says 'adult polar bear' (although it is in fact slightly above average for current male polar bear AVERAGE size).
So, all that is being stated is that at MAX weight, the Smilodon (only the largest Smilodon species is this size, which wasn't specified) is larger than 'the AVERAGE adult polar bear'. Once ABOVE average size male polar bears are considered, it is comfortably larger overall.
@@Dr.Ian-PlectIan you seem very bored. Maybe apply for some more hours at zoo, I heard they’ve upped your wage from 10 to 11 dollars an hour.
@@Shhhhh432 From the other thread.
"I’ve seen ur thread Ian. Your wrong."
- Lay it out, that way you have some substance...
-------------------
"Ian you seem very bored. Maybe apply for some more hours at zoo, I heard they’ve upped your wage from 10 to 11 dollars an hour."
- Instead what you have done is shown yourself to be a vacuous ignoramus, not worth the oxygen you consume
The clown is muted.
I gotta believe they hunted in prides just cause a bunch of 1300 lb cats hanging of a mammoth is a crazy visual
BIG kITTIES
I can`t imagine how powerful this kitty had been! Crazy
What about ligers?
They're not really considered an actual species since they can't breed
Let’s go. My favorite cat of all time! But, I just thought of something: if lions are the closest thing we got to the American Lion, then could a small population of modern lions survive in America?
As long as they're in a place with enough sufficiently sized prey to hunt and access to water, lions could basically survive anywhere. They're already living life on hard mode being on the African serengeti. Virtually anywhere else that isn't like a desert or extreme cold environment should be easier than what they currently do. The biggest danger to them here would be that they start getting into human livestock too much and get killed by us for it.
No, as before the American lions arrived to the Americas, they were classified as beringian cave lions (a separate species to Panthera Leo).
Neither lions are the largest land carnivore nor P.atrox was the largest cat of all time. I thought this channel was scientifically accurate but now the admin exposed himself to a lying lion fanboy with angenda! Such shame! The 2009 study actually decreased the size of american lion, there was a 2012 study which suggested bigger weights for p.atrox but that paper is heavily disputed.
Unsubbed
Ur right the largest cats are Amphimachairodus (Asian and African) and the smilodon populator. Still a well made video, with good detail doesn’t deserve and unsub
Then what's the biggest ? 🤔
@@sitproperlywhilewatchingph423 I just said mate
Mosbach Lion is the Largest
It’s amazing to think about living side by side to these creatures and megafauna
You're forgetting Siberian Tigers, Siberian Tigers are larger than African lions... it is the largest Natural Living Cat... so in the beginning you calling the African lion the largest is wrong.
Siberian tiger is smaller than the lion in the wild you know nothing
@@THELIONMAN7Yes nowadays they are smaller than African lions, because they shrinked. Back then I think siberian tigers were much larger and were the largest cats alive. That's prob why people are so used to saying "the siberian tiger is the largest big cat alive."
Now it's just between the African lion and the Bengal Tiger.
@@MeltingMutation ye
Excellent video! I had no idea there was such a thing. What a nightmare they must have been, yet what a sight to see.
TIGERS ARE THE BIGGEST CATS
Is your brain braining WE KNOW THE AMERICAN LION IS EXTINCT
Tigers are smaller than lions
@@THELIONMAN7 nope, Lions just have bigger head, jaw (males). Tigers are bigger and heavier than Lions, they also have stronger bites force compared to Lions. If they fight, Tigers are the winners.
I loved your video - THANK YOU! It was informative & beautifully illustrated. However, I have one major disagreement with your video info. That is, the American lion (Panthera atrox) is NOT the largest feline in existence. The South American species of sabertooth, Smilodon populator, was (without question) bigger & heavier, as was a more ancient sabertooth cat named Machairodus kabir. The ancestral Eurasian steppe lion (Panthera fossilis) was roughly the same size as P atrox. And I believe the ‘Ngandong’ tiger (Panthera tigris soloensis) was slightly smaller. Apart from that, the video is accurate.
Biden’s America
Wow,
It always amazes me how man has to speculate on so many details to prop up there theories.
I’d love to know more details about specific specimens: where, when and how were they found and in what conditions? And what about that coat specimen?????? I know that would make a much longer video but I always want to know that stuff. These are great!! Thank you !!!
This kitty does have a modern competetor for size, and that is the hybrid Lyger which can get in the realm of 1000 lbs
But that is not a natural species
1:25 .... what's the Peppermint Narwhal doin' there?
Very informative! Thanks for sharing.
“Lack of a developed mane”
Do you have a fully furred American lion for reference or is it just the jawbone that was telling you how big the mane was? 😂
WOW, it looks like it was a pack hunter, considering it was taking down larg prey!
i can still remember watching these cats stalk camels while i hid on a hill top. Those were the days.
2:40 that's an adorable Jaguar pic!!!!! 🥹
It saddens me greatly when I consider the idea that humans may have helped drive such a robust feline juggernaut into extinction.
It is easy to say when you aren't directly competing and being threatened by them.
The ice age be like: 👁️ 👄 👁️
@@chrisdonish We live with brown bears, grizzly bears, black bears, and polar bears while the people of Asia live with tigers and sun bears and Africans live with their own lions and leopards. We would manage them similarly, I think.
thats only shows who is boss
The giant armadillo didn't seem to be very concerned. I like the picture of the wolf with its leg snipped off. American lions must have had A.I. enhanced alignment of the inscisers. : )
The sense estimates seem reasonable... donkeys can hear sounds made up to five miles away. I have donkeys, ride them, and can verify that they can and do hear sounds that far away. Fascinating story on the American lion. 🎉
Like its genetic relative (the cave lion), Panthera atrox was probably a pride feline. Cave art seems to confirm the connection. Where team work guides circumstance, the cats affinity for open grassland only reinforces the hypothesis.
Their scarcity in the tar pits also points towards packing behaviour. Smilodon seems to have been the common casualty, as opposed to the survivor.
I would never imagine that the narwal was part of the felis family. 1:07
Those Steppe Bison were MASSIVE. Almost twice as big as a regular bison
Hey man great videos. Can you do some videos on the haast eagle and other extinct eagles and birds of prey?
As a kid i was OBSESSED with Sabertooth and absolutely heartbroken when the big teeth where considered limited and possibly restrictive.....
Thanks for this mate, very interesting.
Your videos are simply amazing... 😻
Especially the art 👏, and maps and charts.