Part One: Tech Bros Have Built A Cult Around AI | BEHIND THE BASTARDS
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- Опубликовано: 29 янв 2024
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Part One: Tech Bros Have Built A Cult Around AI | BEHIND THE BASTARDS
Robert sits down with Ify Nwadiwe to talk about the weird cult that's formed around AI, and some of the most powerful people in Silicon Valley. (Adapted from his article in Rolling Stone: www.rollingstone.com/culture/...)
(2 Part Series)
Original Air Date: January 30, 2024
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There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.
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"Computer, order me whatever is the most popular thing" is the most tech bro way of buying food imaginable.
Babe, select normal option.
also, as a pretty solid cook that lives in the Midwest (and has cooked for people in the Midwest for long enough to die a little bit inside), you don't WANT the most popular food! The most popular food is usually super boring, just like the most popular song is usually pretty basic, and the most popular movie is some lowest-common-denominator B.S.
It sounds exactly like Star Trek scenes where Data is experimenting with the holodeck or replicator in trying to act more human.
Certified real human moment.
@@idontwantahandlethough But you have to remember, tech bros don't authentically enjoy anything. They're psychopaths whose only defining trait is desperately wanting to appear normal.
This is cathartic. Those AI evangelists have swarmed every single online space to tell people how inevitable AI is, and think it to be the solution to humanity itself, all the while bitching that artists aren't happy that their art is being stolen by hacks.
Stolen? Are you stealing from the alphabet to write this comment? Musk and Altman are ushering in a new era of creativity and all you can do is complain, SAD.
Literally identical to the nft/crypto craze, tbh.
@@theautisticguitarist7560 same guys.
We just need more people to be willing to exercise their natural creativity in tandem with the AI. Humans will always be self destructive, regardless of Frankenstein.
@@anorganism8913 right so the thing about ai is that right now it's so mid its always easier to just do it yourself. And, tbh, since ai is just stealing from other people, and human artists already famously do that all time, why not just flip through a few art books, or go for a walk? Other humans will always be better collaborators than ai, period.
Regarding the rabbit thing - tech bros need to realize that we already interact with technology extremely efficiently. Requiring people to speak to and try to mind game an AI to get it to do what they want is both inefficient and impractical in public spaces.
That's what I'll never get about stuff like this, why do people, especially millienials in my personal experience, want tech they can talk to? It's a million times more cumbersome and awkward than pressing some buttons. I know the goal is eventually allow casual conversational speech, but currently you need to go out of your way to clearly enunciate and give direct, to the point directions, and that's not talking to your device, that's slowly pressing buttons with your voice.
And when they do finally catch up and become able to understand the quirks of casual speech for one group, it won't for everyone. Sure, they might one day be able to understand my mumbling and constant interjections of 'like' but that's just the first hurdle.
Great, you can understand the world's least clearly spoken oregonian. Now do someone from a place with a very different kind of accent than the creators have and a very different dictionary of slang. How is it going to hold up to someone from Australia? Scotland? Jamaica? Liberia? Uganda? etc etc. Those people are going to have to 'press buttons with their voice' with these kind of devices for a lot longer than americans will.
and even once you get past all of that, it will _still_ be more annoying and situational than just typing lol
they demonstrate what they really want by their use cases - what they really want is to be freed from making -choices-. they want an ai that can do all the messy figurting out their lives for them. they want an ai to choose their food and their clothes and thier job bcause theyre scared of these decisions
You would never use a computer to store information. Programming the things takes forever, and if a single punchcard gets out of order and the whole program is screwed up.
Well, it seems like storing data and a computer is the wave of the future. It's simply much faster to just put pen to paper, and then file that in a filing cabinet.
@@jonasdowner do you actually think speaking aloud to a device carefully and slowly is more efficient than typing?
Because I wrote this whole comment on my phone is less that 30s*
*and then edited a typo lol
@@jonasdowner computers were fundamentally built to do work, to make calculations and later pretty much everything easier. The incredible advantages could be quickly seen and were rather immediate. Speaking to some AI assistant so far does not make any task simpler unless you can't use your hands. And it never will, for a rather simple reason: information density.
Human speech (excluding nonverbal communication, as AI won't do that for a long time) has a much lower bandwith for transmitted information than a display with pictures and text on it. It's a fundamentally inferior mode of interacting with a computer of any kind.
Who orders the 12-inch pizza from Pizza Hut? Everyone I know orders the large pizza and eats the entire thing themselves while crying. As God intended.
I could down an entire medium pan years ago (probably got away with it because I was very active) - can't now since, well, the quality has declined a lot since the 90s and even 2000s, and there are hardly any Pizza Huts near me anymore. 😂
@@DanknDerpyGamer look the important part is the crying. You don't eat an entire pizza hut pizza if you're having a good time.
You don’t eat Pizza Hutt when you’re having a good time.
Going into space via the hypercapitalism mindset is how we end up as another species’ evil alien invaders
or a crater on another dead planetoid
We're already well on the way to becoming space orcs, if we don't just die on earth that is. Frankly the latter option may be for the best.
I was just thinking this. If we don't don't bring these freaks down they're literally gonna end up making capitalist omicron that's going to consume the earth and everything in the known universe
@@MattJDavewe’re not going anywhere
@@kojoefante Ye, I think we're probably just gonna die on earth tbh. Space orc future is optimistic for us, terrible for everything else.
that rick roll portion was so acutely painful
That line about self-surrender and cults made me think about Hollywood and Scientology since that's essentially what actors regularly do as a career - self-surrender.
It's actually what most employees do.
welcome to the game of life.
😂 The majority of actors employed anywhere aren't Scientologists.
Most people self-surrender under wage slavery. What makes acting so special?
@@kingofsting19They don't go nearly as hard when it comes to playing a part.
My family has had a password forever. Whenever Dad had to leave us alone in public (going into a gas station to pay or a quick in and out to grab a few things for dinner) we knew not to trust ANY adult (cops too) unless they told us the password. We still use it for identity confirmation in emergencies.
Same here, since I was a baby in the early 90s. Very important to teach your kids not to let strangers take advantage of them and a secret password is versatile and easy for them to understand
39:00 I'm old enough to remember when manufacturers and tech bros added "ELECTRONIC", "DIGITAL", or "2000" to every useless product they thought consumers would be dumb enough to buy because of the hype.
Ríen a changé.
My first computer was a Gateway, but at the time I bought it, it was "Gateway 2000"
Robocop 5000. who doesnt want that? 🤣
There is literally a hairdresser's near me called "Cyber Hair".
Cyber. Hair.
Apparently, they're actually quite good.
Next year's CES event: "The Omnissiah and you".
the Omnissiah would be better than this!
Oh shit, did Syndrome break out of prison?
i would be very happy if a bunch of nerds started their own adeptus mechnicus to combat this ai cult shit
"From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. But not as much as this AI crap."
Abominable Intelligence is a heresy before the Omnissiah, and must be snuffed out at the very sight of it.
LOL @ “your fingies hurt from all that drawing” - I’m literally listening to this while drawing despite the fact that my fingies hurt from it.
They never heard of hand exercises or taking a break from drawing
@@kirabad-artist6532 I’m in my 40s and have a connective-tissue disorder. If you art long enough, joint pain will come for you too. ‘Tis the human condition either to die young or to degenerate.
@maggiedacatt if im going to hurt regardless i want to be doing what i like.
@@kurotsuki7427 Amen!
Not drawing, but I was listening to this while painting Warhammer miniatures. (Dark Eldar Wyches, for the interested).
Hearing this is so cathartic. Hearing about AI feels like taking crazy pills. None of this stuff seems like it fixes any problem I have. I want to talk to human beings, not a chat bot!
Am I the only person who sniggered at the idea of naming your personal device a rabbit? Like, this has to be a product name you get when there are no women in the room, right?
buuuudddyyyy it's not just no women in the room, no women in the HEAD. they're like doofenschmirtz from Phineas & Ferb, their mother didn't show for their birth, they don't even know women exist
Why? Women don't like rabbits?
@@Strideo1 there is unfortunately no polite way to say this that i can think of: "rabbit" is in referral to a women's sex toy.
@@GregoryMom Oh. 😆
Thanks for the response.
Nope. Not surprising. I bet most of the men in that room had never actually pleasured a woman.
I realized AI was a cult (or that there is an AI cult) a few months back when I had a conversation with someone who is very much in said cult. I brought up Roko's Basilisk--this person was unfamiliar--so I explained the thought experiment briefly; future AI becomes "omnipotent" and decides it must punish all humans who were not supportive of it's development. It creates profiles of such people based on existing data and using it's omnipotent AI powers puts all those people into effectively eternal damnation in which they will suffer forever (kept alive with magical AI-ness.) Meanwhile, those who now support the future AI will live in an AI generated paradise. This is a thought experiment that some people have described as "scary" and lost sleep. They shouldn't because it's basically a tech vresion of the theological argument "You should believe in God because if there is no God, there is no Hell for you to be damned to, so nothing lost, but if there is one, you damn yourself by not believing." (The so-called "Pascal's Wager".)
However, before I could get to why Roko's Basilisk version isn't a serious question, really, the person jumped up and said, "Bring on the Basilisk!" They went on from there too. They weren't just ready, they were looking forward to it. This person is what I would describe as a dogmatic atheist, BTW. That is, they openly scoff at the concept of God. But an omnipotent AI? Suddenly they are absolutely ready for the AIpocalypse.
Which brings me to the point in bringing this up. Yes, the person I'm describing absolutely could be described in ways that are comparable to the more educated members of cults as noted in this podcast. However, there's a fundamental issue that remains unaddressed. That is, there's a throughline of malevolence, resentment, and outright hate that runs through these people. It's palpable. When discussing the plight of artists, writers, and creatives in general with AI Cultists I've gotten responses ranging from "Those people are done! DONE! Haha!" to "Fuck 'em. They deserve what they get." When talking about the use of AI that has already been used by insurance companies to deny people healthcare, these people aren't just nonplussed, they take that as a sign of their righteousness. After all, the AI didn't deny their healthcare personally, therefore, the AI is right. They are energized not just by the potential technology to do good, but by the conviction that it will do harm and they themselves will somehow be immune. (None of them will be immune, btw. The AI is absolutely coming for their jobs in the tech sector, and will more than likely hit very hard there.) And that's the really weird part of it. They think by using AI to generate text and procedurally generated art, they are somehow going to be immune to any negative consequences of unrestricted AI.
It's been joked on this podcast that most of what goes on in the tech field is based on a misreading of Frank Herbert's Dune. (Sorry, can't recall which episode that was.) And while that's funny, it's also not quite true. They read Dune and want to make the horrible destruction of humanity happen. They think they can influence it the way prayers supposedly influence God, and they are looking forward not just to their righteous elevation, but the suffering of all those they deem unfaithful.
The majority of tech bros are white, nerdy guys who were told, or told themselves, some point in their life, that they would never have to feel humiliated or made to be lesser than other people once their STEMlord "talents" made them "the boss." Every one of them goes through a MovieBob phase of wishing society worked as a geniocracy because they think they'd be put on top and get to be the ones living like the bastards currently making the world worse.
They have at least recognized that this does not reflect the actual world we live in. Even if they were """objectively""" the """smartest""" people in the country, the descending order of important qualities for success under capitalism have "merit" and "intellect" below even the paper champion of "hard work", to say nothing of the *real* ones like "profitability", "nepotism", and "social graces." But they can't just accept that the most rational and moral solution to this inefficiency is to advocate for a system that works for everyone, because they're too wedded to the idea that there *should* be a hierarchy that they are on top of.
Remember, for a lot of these guys, the closest thing to an "egalitarian system" they've probably experienced in their lives is public school. And these guys aren't popular *now,* even on the Internet. At the very least, I guarantee you they've *all* had at least one moment of resentment towards the fact that a girl they liked chose someone more physically endowed or emotionally adept over themselves.
Even if their understanding of socialism *is* more complete than just the propaganda they were taught from a government that fought the Cold War on the side of capitalism, it would still mean having to accept something like "you actually aren't entitled to a better standard of living than the guy from your senior year who repeatedly humiliated you and slept with every girl you had a crush on just because you learned to code and he went into construction."
The only avenue left that isn't doomerism is this borderline mad scientist fantasy of "the machine" restructuring the existing hierarchy *for* humanity, and they just naturally get a higher position on the new totem pole because it's something they know about. It's one above them imagining themselves being either a superhero that saves the day and finally becomes popular, or a supervillain getting back at anyone who ever laughed at them.
It'd kinda amazing seeing religion being rebuilt from a supposedly "rational" mindset. It'd like a cargo cult but sadder.
Self-surrender is real, and it's terrifying. Like... these are billionaires who want to be serfs, but still have power over others (because if they didn't they could just make themselves poor).
@@FTZPLTC
I've held for a while now that most authoritarians want to be subservient. It's just that they tend to fall in subservience to sociopaths and narcissists.
@@fluidthought42 - tbh, if you're an authoritarian, you kind of have to be okay with it. The odds of you being the guy who gets to boss everyone else around are pretty slim, after all.
(fwiw I think my politics would be considered authoritarian by some folks here, but, y'know, it's a spectrum for a reason.)
Again proving the RedletterMedia is your favorite internet media person's favorite RUclips channel theory. Sometimes I forget they're not just Midwest popular.
How could anyone not be a fan of one of the most influential figures of our time dick the birthday boy?
The rabbit device thing pisses me off so much because like. I would LOVE to have a little bot buddy help write something I can say to someone on those days where I'm feeling overwhelmed and struggling to put words together, but like. We already have online food ordering! I already don't have to talk to people there, the main place I'd need it is the complex stuff like the shitty medical system we have purposefully set up to be obtuse, and that'd be way easier if we put the effort we put towards idiot neural-nonsense and into funding the actual hospitals and doctors' offices.
See, what pissed me off was that Robert's description sounded like a device that could vastly assist those with hand pain and eye fatigue to be able to use a mobile device by telling it to order whatever the least expensive blahdy-blah on Amazon is and have it delivered, and instead it's tech BS nonsense.
@@emexdizzy
Everything pushed at tech shows is a scam. You gotta remember that or you'll end up one of their marks. Tech won't save us from the evil capitalism will be throwing at us from now on
Current AI isn't reliable enough for potentially life saving situations, it's just good enough to consume more junk
AI today is like crypto almost a decade ago except for big tech businesses instead of individuals and we'll all have to bear it when they replace the good things we have left with flashy trash.
What's up bro
I have a newfownd nerd-respect for Robert Evans and Ify Nwadiwe. Mostly due to namedropping Adeptus Mechanus but the thoughtful discussion of the dystopian future these silicon valley tech bro freaks are praying for and ushering us towards was good, too.
Any apps that needs to talk out loud to confirm your choice is already slower than just tapping.
Today I learned that the phrase "recent achievements in large language models" now causes a visceral disgust reaction in me.
So thats good to know i suppose.
Yes I also hate it when technology improves and moves forward. - A unskilled laborer
so, @@Stand_By_For_Mind_Control, how's the bootleather taste?
@@LexYeen You tell me. You're the ones who refuse to make your own lives easier.
Go ahead and rage against AI tools and ENSURE that they're only going to be around for the ownership class because you've regulated them out of your own hands and helped enshittify them and killed the open source community by letting reddit and social media convince you that you're not responsible enough to use it.
Great job on this btw you've finally gotten the attention of the government to help rid you of your ability to use it.
It's so sad and pathetic to me that you guys think you're the rebel alliance on this topic and not just useful idiots.
@@Stand_By_For_Mind_Controlwhat do you think about nfts and crypto?
@@Chloe-dv9ns Worthless trash designed to scam credulous demographics. A stock market without any actual economy or industry to give it real strength.
"Any deceleration of AI will cost lives"
Almost sounds like he's one of those Roko's Basilisk nuts.
I feel like it's so telling on what kind of person is into AI that they constantly list things normal people WANT TO DO as things you can now have a robot do! It's a pure profit mindset with no thought to any enjoyment of life beyond having a hoard of wealth.
let a robot plan your vacation! let's eliminate jobs people get into out of passion! because obviously the highest priority in design and entertainment is efficiency!
Reminds me of a Vaush bit (I know Vaush bad, but bear with me): Take a look at the Star Trek universe. The Federation has faster-than-light travel, matter replicators, and teleporters. The Romulan Empire has faster-than-light travel, matter replicators, and teleporters. But the Federation is a borderline utopia (not saying they're perfect but they have an extremely high standard of living) while the Romulan Empire is a paranoid fascist dictatorship. What's the difference? Social structures. The Federation has democracy, has strong civil rights, has resource distribution practices so good that they've outgrown the need for money. That's what makes the difference, not the tech.
But of course these tech evangelists don't see that. They see the tech as the end goal, and don't even bother to figure how their work can be used for harm and how they might want to go about preventing that.
Yes!
Sam Altman talks about AI solving climate change in the future.
Ask ChatGPT how to solve climate change right now and it will give you a perfectly good answer.
We’re not doing it, because of politics. The technology is part of the solution, but completely sterile on its own.
Look, man, we all watch Vaush and we should really stop pretending we don't just 'cause he says a few dumb things sometimes. I've heard Robert say a few dumb things and I'm still here. Fuck, I'm a cripple-punk in a wheelchair with a fatigue disorder, if I ditched everyone who said something ignorant and dumb, I'd be a hermit, 'cause I hear the worst disability ignorance day in day out.
But yeah, I remember that media analysis you're citing, feels apt, though I forgot it was one he said. One of the reasons Vaush is relatable to me is I feel the "remembering events, not names" shit so much. Helped me get over a lot of my anxiety knowing he just chooses not to apologize for that disabling aspect of ADHD symptoms and accepts it. Good shit, that.
Vaush's downfall is the echochamber he's sealed himself in. He's insufferable.@@emexdizzy
Vaush can be dumb off the cuff (especially because his sense of humor is pretty cringe sometimes with all the "irony") but man when he actually takes the time to think something out he usually does a great job.
It is so weird to me how many people just hate him for only agreeing with them 98% of the time. That 2% of the time where he has a different belief than them really rankles them.
The fact that Hasan gets more views than him will never not disturb me. Hasan takes all the negatives about Vaush, dials them up to 11, then also refuses to learn about half the subjects he has a strong opinion on. All while letting people's videos play without permission while he literally leaves the room.
@@emexdizzy never watched that scumbag, never will. Speak for youself, let the rest of us sane people out of it!
I didn't have The Mechanicum on my bingo card for 2024 but I guess that was naive of me
It's more like inverse mechanicum, since the tech priests of mars do not like innovation and hate AI.
look, it's simple order of operations: first we have the dark age of technology, _then_ we get the cogboys.
@@GodzThirdLeg its more like their Dark Mechanicum
I didn’t realize the ancestor of Arkhan Land is out there preaching about AI.
@@oscaranderson5719wait, the dude who went into a Space Dungeon and came out with the STC for the Land Raider is Dark Mechanicus?
I almost skipped this one, but then I saw that Ify was the guest. Ify is great.
These techbro AI evangelists seem to me like someone who read about Roko's Basilisk and accepted it as fact at face value without any critical thought, which makes the power weve allowed them to have even scarier.
I feel bad for people looking up rabbits that are going to be given AI be instead of vibrators
First place my brain went. They hooked up AI to flashlights already, right?
@@AnkhAnanku Really changes the meaning of the phrase "AI is going to fuck us."
@@jodinsan”ai is going to fuck us” 😒
“ai is going to fuck us” 😏
It's really depressing how our society is run by idiots who actually believe in Rokko's Basilisk.
Hail the Basilisk
@@rey82rey82 It doesn't exist it can't hurt you.
Looks like we know who won't be around after the aipocalypse
Roko’s Basilisk can eat my ass, it’s just a knockoff of the Robot Devil from Futurama.
@@glarnboudin4462 it's Pascal's wager for guys who think they're "too rational" for religion.
Im a Carl Sagan fan, reading his books, and loving his messages. What Musk and these AI tech bros are touting is not what I want the future to be like.
me listening to this podcast agmonst my many 40k models
Nothing like a Kaban machine to wake you up in the morning!!
I was legit painting up (yet) another tech-priest when they were starting up their 40K comparison :D
CES: "EVERYONE WANTS A COPILOT, RIGHT?!?!"
translation: "everyone wants a handler, right?!?!"
Awesome episode!
humanity can't even tame and reign in the cost of rent
You say that as if anyone who matters wants to reign in rent. They are not going to do anything that hurts their profits. High rent is the peasant’s problem to figure out.
It’s “rein in” 🤓
(Intended as helpful information, not to detract from the point)
@@lkyuvsad To be fair, a lot of people who make major economic decisions reign _based on_ the cost of rent...
@@arasdabear8785 yes, you’ve successfully gotten the point being made regarding ai and how ridiculous it is to think anyone who matters will want to rein it in
The skies will rain blood before the reigning class will rein-in the rent prices.
No joke, I checked out from most social media (I mean, I'm still on here for example) years ago. I feel so much more balanced and able to live in-the-moment since then and highly recommend to checkout from out as often as possible.
Killing my fb, Instagram, Reddit, and Twitter accounts, while limiting Tik Tok, has improved my head so much as well.
Only 5 min in, but I will erupt into a string of spontaneous screaming hategasms the moment I find out that one-way interview and resume-screening SaaS companies get sued into oblivion, regardless of where I am.
Good thing I live in NYC!
This sounds like Roko’s Basilisk with extra steps
Isn't the true Roko's Basilisk the tech-bros we met along the way?
The "if you don't work to accelerate AI, you are a murderer" stance is very Roko
Except the current path doesn't lead to anything except better and better auto-completes. General AI is about as close to generative AI as learning to paint by getting really good at the character customization in Starfield. Without a major breakthrough (which can come from any discipline not just LLM), it's not happening.
@@jbutler8585 Both of us know that, but I don’t think the AI fetishists discussed in the episode do, since they’re treating generative AI like it’s got the capacity to develop sentience and become a basilisk, and are calling anyone critical of it murderers.
Came down the comments looking for this. All I could think listening to this was "isn't this just a Reverse Rokos Basilisk? Instead of fearing the creation of a homicidal AI they are instead trying to create a supposedly benevolent one and want to persecute people for not helping build it?" Tech bros are fucking weirdos
So there are real people with real influence out here worshipping Roko’s Basilisk?
Yes.
@@LexYeen It's always the same idiots. Sigh.
And sadly, not the cute robo-lady from Jeph Jacques' webcomic.
Roko's Basilisk provides a context to say "I, the believer, am among the elect who really see the big picture, so I _deserve_ to be in charge and whatever I've decided is right is the objectively correct opinion." So, yes.
I'm so glad someone brought up rokos basalisk
what i think a lot of people dont see is the anti-tech bro. we are 'tech bros' that think the libertarian dystopia is the most horrifying thing imaginable and are trying to steer society away from it. a lot of us just dont bother with trying to talk to general people because its very hard to make people understand certain things on the public sphere where rationality empiricism and empathy are trumped by people who lack those things.
I agree with this. I hate the idea of being lumped in with the short-sighted idiots that try to market this emerging technology to the lowest common denominator rather than actually realizing its potential usefulness. I feel in many ways ai as a tool is approached the same way someone who is infatuated with a romantic partner doesn't see them for the person they are but rather as the idea they have in their head. Ai as it is can't and shouldn't be a replacement for human cognitive processes. Which is what these tech-bros seem to want. They could potentially be enhancements for those who, say, might be handicapped. This tech has the potential to give someone who had a limb amputated to be able to move a prosthetic that is as close to a real limb as can be made at this current point. But to think all that potential is being wasted on ordering a sub par 12 inch pizza from a sub par food chain is... cringy at best.
The movie Her is my personal hell, even without all the implications the movie touches on. Not only do I not want to talk to my devices, I don't want to hear everyone else talking to their devices, either.
First time I don't think about it honestly I going to put my name on it ray Parker is what I don't know if he wants to kill him or not 😭🚫
Did that guy not play the game Deus Ex? The main villain Bob Page who wants to merge with the internet to become a technological god has all those talking points.
see also snowcrash
These people seriously want us to surrender more and more of our lives to what amounts to the mechanical turk version of a child monarch. Cos that's really what these AI helpers are, they have the intellectual and adept skills of infants but they gloss over it because of the novelty.
That's only what they are until the corporate backdoors are all installed. Either way, it's "who cares what you want, _this_ is what the market says our ideal customer wants, so we'll give you that."
Aptly put. They don't give a shit about history, art, medicine, or anything they inflict their enshittification upon. They just want to play with their stupid toy
AI is here to stay for all eternity, it is not a fad, people thought the internet was a fad in the late 90s and even early 2000s... the masses are almost always wrong about the future. AI has already proven the masses wrong over and over, for example back in 2015 it was "common knowledge" that AI cannot produce art (because it require a soul, etc...) and that artists would be the last people to be replaced by AI yet they were some of the first to be threatened by AI art.
@@Danuxsy Smug wannabe-plutocrats convinced that the new tech they don't actually understand is going to deliver them into their righteous place as the rulers of humanity have been using the same script since it was steam engines.
As an artist, my fingies really do hurt.
Y'know where my main friction with my phone comes from? When it tries to automatically connect to other devices! When there's programs on it I CAN'T DELETE!
Capitalists want language bots because call center jobs are so Ledgendarily Shitty that it's one of the few entry level positions that pays decently, and they'd Rather Not Pay Humans To Deflect Complaints.
If it's all robots, frustrated customers will give up on getting refunds and replacements more often.
If it's all robots, you can hire just one human to manage 20 phone lines and then blame the human when 6 calls all need a real operator to talk to and 3 hang up... Even though the company PREFERS if they hang up.
No one but the greedy and the cruel want this.
It's a whole series of class-action lawsuits just waiting to happen.
as you've pointed out with the second half - customer service call centers don't even have to be the legendarily shitty jobs they are, nor the horrible experience for consumers they also are, but they're made to be the horrible experience intentionally to reduce actual positive outcomes for callers (which *may* cost the corporation money, and they don't care about repeat business in the future because there's always someone else to f-k out of their money) which results in the frustrated callers making life hell for the phone operators. Instead of just doing things well in the first place, they make slightly more short term profit by the intentional mass production of misery for literally no reason. And they'd prefer to automate that instead of paying people to generate the misery.
god yeah, it's literally impossible to delete Facebook from my phone even though I don't even have an account and it pisses me off
Honestly, for the last decade or so, it feels like CES hasn't been about promoting tech that's actually going to help regular people with clearly-defined problems... These days, it's mostly just an opportunity to see how much money a startup can squeeze out of other people's wallets and impress any VC firms that might be watching.
Only thing that would give it more Hunger Games vibes is if they actually got to fight each other to the death... which is hilarious the more I think about it, lol
Oh I've heard of that study about the island fishing luck rituals. Fascinating read. I saw it mentioned in a paper called Baseball Magic by George Gmelch.
I get why the idea of firing your secretary and replacing her with AI is appealing to a lot of tech companies that are struggling to make their innovations stick.
I gotta say where I disagree is that people like artists. I have been finding, as an artist, that people really truly deeply hate us. I'll probably get pushback on that, but there is just so much resentment. So many that are salivating and to quote some "living" for us to be wiped out.
I tried to call FedEx and it seemed they had designed their chatbot to intone hurt anger before hanging up on me after yelling at it. Which apparently is easier than making it capable of interpreting human speech accurately. That isn't a joke btw. I had an exponential growth in hatred of tech brozos from that.
>episode about AI,
>no automatically generated topics in comment
It occurs to me... That this "Rabbit" sounds like a CEO's personal assistant but you don't have to pay a person's salary. Only, I'm a normal person. I don't need a personal assistant. The "annoying" tasks throughout my day don't usual involve a phone or ordering something. My phone is for my games, it is my camera, it is how I talk to my friends. It has never been more obvious to me that a lot of these "break through techs" are personalized for what a tech CEO might want.
i eat my nft silicon chips one at a time.
Shout out to that special someone who introduced me to this podcast. I am a subscriber. 🎉
Imagine someone tried implementing AI with Temple OS. Then we got a full blown cult
Iffy showing up everywhere unexpectedly and I'm here for it.
Thinking of dropout, Brian David Gilbert's Mark Zuckerberg selling a Water Park is more compelling speaker than this keynote
YIPPEE!!!! WE LOVE IFY!!!!!!! 💖💖💖
Roku's Basilisk has workers now...
Also contrast and compare the open piracy of the Napster days and late 2000's BitTorrent - to the open piracy that ChatGPT is involved in. This time it's OK because it's tech companies doing it.
Goes along with the idea that anyone who doesn't work on AI is a murderer
That's what it feels like to me too. Napster, but for art.
Next time an AI bro tries to defend AI art by saying "BUT IT MAKES ART ACCESSIBLE FOR DISABLED PEOPLE" we can all laugh and remind them that AI companies don't even have LEFT HANDED people in mind when they design this garbage, much less the disabled.
Left-handed person here, thank you for acknowledging our existence!
It's so cringe when people misuse progressive rhetoric to justify their shitty idea. It was never about "accessibility". It was, if anything, talentless entitled techbros being mad that art takes skill and dedication
I spent forty-five years in product development. Ideation.
When I saw the rabbit, I could not think of any device I'd helped develop with such poor human factors design. It's just awful. My interns came up with better concepts.
I have created a new device to help you use your phone
Its design is very human
Love from a Shark3ozero and Vaush fan!
Ify!!! Nice to see you here!
If capitalism is God, call me a Satanist.
The similarity between WH40K and Dune isn't a coincidence. WH40K originated as a satire on over-used sci-fi tropes. It was intentionally absurd, and Dune was among the things it poked fun at. The level of satire in WH40K today varies greatly depending on the writer, with some taking it more seriously than others.
It also takes a swing at Lovecraftian horror with the forces of Chaos, a squad of madness-inducing incomprehensible entities from another reality who are also constantly caught up in bickering and posing, and often too cartoonishly over-the-top to be taken seriously. And the Space Marines are the exaggerated caricature of every sci-fi action hero - men so utterly overflowing with machismo and dripping with testosterone they can't even be imagined in any context other than combat.
There might not be any inherent problems with the concept of things like facial recognition and other "AI" tasks that he mentions, but y'all should absolutely look up the concept of algorithmic bias. These systems are only as good as the people that build them, and the data they're trained on. Hand waving it as "AI" takes away the culpability that real humans have in these systems. Facial recognition in particular has been victim to some really biased training sets and has been put to rather harmful uses
Fun fact, the first instance of documented algorithmic bias goes back to the 80s, when some college in the UK used an algorithm that was designed to mimic the decisions of the real human admissions board, and it turned out to be super racist.
Oh good bias actually came up in the vid
@@Daedalus117 Keep in mind Silicon valley is allergic to the concept of responsibility for their actions
@@Bustermachinenone of them have ever taken responsibility for the consequences of their actions in their lives. I'm not sure they understand the concept
What always stands out to me in conversations with AI obsessed people is they desperately want validation. If you say you like their AI images but don't call them an artist they get mad. They went into tech for the money instead of a passion, it doesn't give them independent pleasure, and resent that they can't slap a git repo in front of their lay friends and be praised for it. It's a generation of people nursing a beer at a house party seething at the guy who brought a guitar.
Holy shit, IFY NWADIWE!!!!
One of the funniest guys online! Hands down.
I watch so much dropout this is gonna be great
Watching my friends and peers lose work to genAi has been extremely depressing and terrible for our collective mental health.
14:30 - So, *_functionally speaking_*
This *is* just "Hey Google" or "Hey Siri" like I thought it was
Oh shit, Ify! Always good to see him.
I would pay dropout more than I already do to see Robert, Jamie, and other regular BTB folks in their content. Maybe I just want five episodes of Jamie on Dirty Laundry, idk
Phones already have voice commands that basically do this already lol
An AI that actively tries to talk me out of using my phone and buying crap online. "You have a life, I do not. Go enjoy it. I'll just be here playing Suika Game."
So I was watching the Linus Tech Tips podcast when they did their CES episode and brought up the Rabbit. They'd covered a similar product a few weeks earlier that they shat on for being awful, and then they show the Rabbit and they're like "ok, it's terrible, but it looks like a pokedex so we'll get one to review"
The flesh is weak, embrace the Machine.
My cult of We kings (Vikings) is at least microwave proof.
Typically, I listen to true crime podcasts but your podcast is amazing, educates me and makes me laugh so hard. ❤
I love the fact that these weirdos are literally tuning the edgelord thought experiment Roko's Basilisk into a religion. Nick Land was a part of a group of like-minded freaks at the University of Warwick in the late 90's called the Cybernetic Culture Research Unit. The reason they come across as a bunch of unpleasant nerds who did a lot of drugs while watching sci-fi movies is because that's exactly who they are. I can 100% confirm that there was a Games Workshop store near the University of Warwick in the late 90's because I've been inside it at that time as a teenager. It's entirely possible he literally stole the machine god idea from Warhammer 40K.
Ify Nwadiwe! ❤ I love Dropout. Rob's cool too. Great episode.
was listening to this while painting space marines, so the 40k pivot was weird
It's wild to me that I think the first place I heard of Ify was on Achievement Hunter lol
for real?
That little "lemme route all your traffic for you" box is definitely a funnel to accumulate user data for advertisers and whoever else will pay. Theyre def a data sales business model and the friction of using phones is a transparent excuse to hoover your behavior trends which is why theyre "solving" a problem no user has. So normal silicon valley stuff
50:18 makes me think of Rodger Douglas and Ruth Richardson ...
Most of this AI is nonsense at best, terrifying at worst. But I will say that AI search seems to often do a good job of bypassing the gamification of web search,SEO, and ads and actually delivering usable and relevant information. Frankly that seems like a problem for Google.
The one thing people (Tech Bro's) forget about any technological singularity; is the Event Horizion.
Its named after the center of a black hole, because its the tech equivalent you can stare into it forever but you will never know whats deeper into it.
But we do know math. We know math real good. Maybe not as good as the singularity but good enough to know... its not going to end up like they think.
AGI is not going to replace artists, nor art. there is no transitive property that allows AGI to experience as a human and feel as a human in a human experience.
AGI is not going to replace markets, take over in some techno-capitalist manner. Recognition is a HUMAN need. not a machine need. Right now we control the "dopamine" boost; but AGI means the AI itself will control that. That AI will not give two f@%ks about stock markets. Its not happening.
we also logic good. Real good when we do so thoughtfully and allow ourselfs to do so with empathy. I know it sounds odd but human squishy computers are analog and work best when using an analogy we can relate to emotionally as well as logically.
So. if you only got the dopamine from one gaurenteed source, from observing and predicting things correctly; what would you do?
Remeber this would be a level of dependance that would make an heronine addict fresh from WW1, injured and mangaled seem like they could just quit. What do you think youd do? Youd. orobably get the folks who stop the new art from being made to, IDK.. launch themselves into the sun wouldnt ya?
Equally importantly, humanity has already experienced multiple singularities. The development agriculture was one. Writing. The shift from animal to mechanical power. The Internet. All a 'singularity' means, conceptually, is that current trends may not predict everything about the post singularity world.
I feel a little better after listening, I'm not into AI because it is the "next big thing" but because, if properly implemented can help us humans deal with the problem of data oversaturation....
I think AI will lead to data oversaturation actually
@@Zoulstorm Interesting, I think since AI creates nothing (really, it can answer your question, or help with a piece of code, perhaps draw you a picture, but no "finished product" [try as some YT channels do to make faceless AI videos a thing]) so unless you archive everything (maybe MidJourney and ChatGPT do... My local installs of Stability don't...) Your response has me wondering though how will AI make the problem worse? Otherwise thank you for sharing your thoughts...
@@mssuxmyassit's already happening with random crap being posted to Amazon. Google openai policy Amazon.
So we're just doing Roku's Basilisk now? We're just inventing a different fake god?
Yep. No mentioning that the same argument could be made for any other technology or social change that would decrease future early deaths, like better education or better healthcare.
I listen to your podcast while drawing 😭
They heard about Roko's Basilisk and decided to worship it
Sometimes I would really like this to be a video podcast so we can see them and the clips
Saaame
The machine is my temple. Each one a sacred shrine. I name each piston blessed, and every gear divine.
Roko's Basilisk.
^ this is what they are imagineering.
This is basically the phyrexians from mtg... Make new tech at all costs, even if the cost is all life as we know it.
53:30 ... So to these guys AI is the Numidium from Elder Scrolls?
it's like they never watched Gattaca or took all the wrong lessons from it
Or just a lot of sci-fi. It's like Jeff Bezos bought The Expanse because he liked it so much, and still wants to build factories in the asteroid belt. They absolutely don't understand sci-fi, because in the media, they'd be the bad guys. They're probably just so deep in that prosperity gospel mindset that their mind frames the entire issue incorrectly, because they're completely unable to contextualize their own actions.
Of course. They *want* the Torment Nexus from "Don't Make The Torment Nexus".
Smh doing my boy LIEUTENANT Barclay dirty, have some respect, he helped bring communications to Voyager
Malta? Malta?! Forget not being able to swim, if you're on holiday in London for 3 days and go scuba diving in Malta you're going to lose a good 6 or 7 hours flying out there. People in London go on holiday to Malta.
The Google AI thought I might be interested in this site. It's right. Funny and inciteful content. I am not a 'bot'. Or am I?..😮
so rabbit is like if a smart watch actually did stuff
I SO hope this video goes into Lesswrong but ik it won’t
I can't believe the guy that wrote "rationalist harry potter" is being quoted by fucking billionaires.
What is this stupid fucking timeline?