Guys, you once made a video about everything ben can and can’t turn into, and you also made a video about venom in the omnitrix, and one about goku. Can you go more in depth with this topic? You said flash’s dna was changed enough to the point he can be put in the omnitrix, so does that mean spider-man can be the same situation? What about hulk, what if Ben became hulk, but then became calm, and not angry, what would happen? And ghost rider too, and sooooo much more
Since I can't be sure if my comment will get buried soon, I'm putting my name suggestion for the car as "Buttercup" since The Princess Bride was Kevin's fav fairy tale.
Anyone else find it weird that tom from toonami never cameoed or made a appearence in ben 10? i mean alien force did debue and are on adult swim/toonami and steve blum is a ben 10 regular. this was when tom was stuck on that planet after his second encounter with THE intruder wasnt it?
I mean... it would be interesting to see, Ben would be serious but not super serious (Like the Ultimate Kevin Arc) for the rest of the Alien force and foward.
Kevin saying Tennyson names rhyme while his father name was Devin, he is Kevin and his son is Devlin. And they all have the family name Levin, I mean that just rhymes on another level to Ken and Gwen
@@officialasa yeah I know that he only get to know about his dad and son way later on, but how about looking at his name, His name is Kevin Levin, his other persona is Kevin eleven, so it has always rhymed
Actually Gwen's Brother doesn't entirely come out of nowhere in the Ben 10 classic episode "Lucky Girl" there's some pop-up trivia that says "Gwen has an older brother named Ken that Ben worships" and in the episode "Perfect Day" there's another pop-up that says "Grandpa Max's lucky Hawaiian shirt was given to him by Gwen's older brother Ken" so it seems like it was somewhat intended for Ken to contribute more to the story it's just a shame more was not done with him though.
It still kinda comes out of nowhere. The pop-up trivia was made after the fact. You are right though, it does seem like he was supposed to be more important.
The pop up trivia was made specifically to hype up the airing of Alien Force, the pop up versions of the classic episodes aired literally right before it in a marathon. I remember because I watched the marathon event thing for Alien Force at the time. Those were written when season 1 of Alien Force was already done and ready to begin airing. Those trivia things included a bunch of Alien Force stuff because I assume Man of Action was trying to make all the thrown together AF bullshit seem less out of nowhere but it doesn't really work because Alien Force still ends up feeling like a bizarre retconned reboot with the amount of stuff that was pointlessly changed or done incorrectly. Originally Gwen definitely was not supposed to have a brother. He was a completely pointless addition made by the people who made Alien Force who does literally nothing and immediately disappears and was never planned lol. It was extra insulting to me as a fan that they claimed that this literally nothing character gave Max his legendary shirt (that he wears all the time and has multiple of...), just to try and make him seem important somehow.
Yeah, Ken should have appeared in more than one episode. Sunny too. In fact, I personally think that everyone in the Tennyson family should have had a decent amount of screen time.
Now thinking about it, yeah, Ken appeared out of nowhere, and disappeared as quickly as he arrived, like... Ben is more like Gwen's brother than Ken is to the audience. About Max's possible death, you know what I would add to it, he never dies, but he loses his arm instead, and see the origin of his replacement arm we see in the future, and through the franchise, we see it change and progress.
I always thought Kevin's car was called "The Ride", because that's what everyone always calls it 😅 Kevin: *Get your paws **_off_** my Ride* Gwen: *Kevin's car- Oh, sorry his "Ride"*
I feel like they handled max's "death" scene so well, that when it's revealed he's not dead later, it doesn't seem like an afterthought retcon. I mean, sure it's cheesy, but I think it still works. The main thing was they just needed to get rid of max so that ben would be forced to go through his leadership arc, plus, the null void implosion is just a really cool set piece and makes a ton of sense from what we know from classic.
Yeah, and being a "Null Void" weapon it already gives it away, enforced by the future episode "Plumber's Helpers" where Manny and Helen thought their projector was a weapon instead of just a teleporter.
@@albedo5455 I think the Highbreed thought that Max was bluffing about blowing them up. It makes sense since the Highbreeds are very inferior to other race that they also thinks that "yeah, this creature is stupid, does he really think he had the guts to blow up this whole facility with himself" something like that.
The hatchery in this is episode is actually for fish, not chickens, which is why there's so much water around. That matches slightly more with the tentacle/aquatic style of the DNAliens' hatching ground being situated there.
Ben: It's up to use to save the world, except for you Ken go back to the void and we will never mention you again just like before. Ken: okay (disappear) Gwen: Who was that?
As I recall, Kevin said that ID Masks were photon shift masks, meaning they don't change shape, they change the way photons behave (somehow), and I imagine when a mask out of the wearer's face, it's still shifting light, so it appears to have a rubber texture. This may also be the reason the mask fails when there are lightnings in place I'm Brazilian, so I saw the dubbing in Portuguese, so maybe this isn't necessary, but I believe it's right
my problem with that explanation is how they still clearly do change the shape of the wearer, like when ben used one to look like a dnalien, if it just made him look taller instead of actually make him taller he wouldnt have to look down at kevin to see him, and if they didnt change shape then itd be pretty easy to find out someones wearing one if it just gives them a different appearance because their original shape is still there. for example if an alien with a tail put one on to look like something without one, their tail would still exist, and theyd have to worry about not hitting anything with it. while we dont see anything like that we do see the masks seemingly change someones proportions, so the same thing applies there
@@fallen5983 I mean there also exists the concept of hard-light constructs. Like what the green lanterns make or the bodies of the crystal gems in Steven universe. It is light but it is also some what solid so that can possibly explain why the change is kinda physical even if it is light-based.
There's a part of me that suspects Kevin did name his car, did so before AF starts, but the reason we never hear about it is because he couldn't possibly admit anyone he meets during the series to having named it "Gwen". He is already crushing on her by episode 1, and the car's the other most notable entity he's consistently affectionate towards.
You know, I actually kinda hoped that grandpa max would lose his arm in the blast and get it replaced with a robotic prosthetic we saw him having in future Ben episodes
1) If Kevin had named his car, I could see him calling it the "Greenliner," since it's green and he's constantly hitting the redline with it. 2) I've had this idea for a while: If they ever made a new continuation of Ben Prime's story, Charmcaster should get a redemption episode which Ken is pivotal in. Here's my basic breakdown: Charmcaster tries to escape from someone/something, but messes up the transport spell or gets injured, resulting in her forgetting everything except that her name is Hope, Ken finds her and, being the kind soul he is, nurses her back to health and tries to help her regain her memories. A road tripping Team Tennyson (Ben, Gwen, Kai, Kevin, and Zed) decide to go to Ken's college graduation, only to find out he's basically been living with his sister's mortal enemy for at least a month. When Hope's not in the room, the team tries to tell Ken about Charmcaster's checkered past, but he doesn't believe them. Ken gets kidnapped by (insert villain who has bad blood with Charmcaster), the team plus Hope tracks him down, Hope suffers enough stress to revive her memories, but Ken admits he has feelings for her, and she chooses to give up villainy for him. Ken gets a girl, Chatmcaster gets to be more than the anti-Gwen, and Gwen gets her own foe turned friend turned eventual in-law. 3) If Kevin absorbed glass, would his body turn clear, or would he just get a layer of glass covering his body?
It would have been cool to have Ken be the "Normal guy" of the group, like he's geared up and training to be a plumber like Max or something, but when he goes on adventures it becomes apparent he's inexperienced compared to Ben and Gwen. I think he would have made for a really cool 4th member of the team
@@ianr.navahuber2195 yeah I was always disappointed we didn't see him more as a child, I was always curious about who he was. Could've just joined from time to time when he happened to be around.
I rag on the inconsistencies of Gwens powers in this show, and i doubt it was intentional but the fact that Gwen's force field could prevent them from also being pulled into the null void is consistent with how the people who worshipped Dagon couldnt teleport through her shields because her powers can function through multiple dimensions so i gotta give them credit for that🤣
I kind of figured he was sent onto the Null Void, but I at least expected it be the moment when Max loses his arm and get his robotic one as we saw in the future.
@@andresreynoso7254 In the original series Pop-Up Trivia, it's said that Max lost his arm in the "Limax Wars of 2017" (The shapeshifting slime guys from Permanent Retirement). While they're not my favourite villains in the series, I think it would've been cool if the Limax returned, considering they were teased to still be alive at the end of the episode.
Something really interesting towards the Omnitrix AI theory is its usage of the term "we" in "should we attempt to repair". Of course it could be referring to we the team as Kevin and Gwen were there, but notably the only one present in the removal "vision" was ben so it feels like the omnitrix is considering itself an entity apart from Ben.
I feel like “killing” max the way they did, with a modified null void projector, the audience could simply be smart enough to know there’s a chance max just warped himself to the null void. So when it’s revealed that’s what happened, it doesn’t feel like a cop out moment, they laid out the clues for that revelation.
The most important point of a character death in fiction should always be how it affects the people around them, not whether or not they stay dead. Max's death isn't undermined when he comes back because Ben has gone through the development that he needs to go through. Had Max returned before the end of season 1 I think I'd be saying something different but that's not what happened
@@TyandOnGoing the way he commands the resistance side by side Max in that episode shows his growth. And how he didn’t revert to who he was. A part of him that still wants his Grandpa is shown in the end, but he’s grown up to understand he has to do it.
Not exactly. The most important apsect of a characters death is the precedent it sets for the series . Such as a character death marking a tonal change, or bringing back after their death establishing major characters won't stay dead.
31:28 Actually, Gwen's brother has been mentioned before. At least technically. He was mentioned in the classic series but only in a couple of those popup trivia things. The first being on the episode "Lucky Girl" in season 1 which stated "Gwen has an older brother named Ken that Ben worships." Another was apparently on "Perfect Day" in season 4 that stated "Grandpa Max's lucky Hawaiian shirt was given to him by Gwen's older brother Ken." However, yea. It's really weird how they finally bring this obscure brother who has only ever been mentioned in a couple triva popup into a main story and then proceed to go back to pretending he doesn't exist. Should've kept some cameos or references to him going forwards.
I think max coming back doesn't undo anything. Unlike most shows that kill off a character only to bring them back, they bring them back during the either the next two or three episodes later or within the same season. Max was inactive for a long enough amount of time. This gives Ben enough time for the lesson to sink in to his core character and does give that big shock for the audience, disregarding the spoiler the teasers gave. But it would have been more believable if Max got some battle damge due to the explosion.
Revelation killed Adam off for only 3 episodes, but I think that's understandable, since the whole show lasts only 10. And a big amount of time passes from the time he dies.
@Blazedboy Dude, you are a genius! That way even tho he comes back, there is a price to pay. He forever lost something. He did say Limax wars, but you could probably make up some excuse. Maybe he thought telling her the future events would change the future.
I think it would actually be pretty uncharacteristic for Kevin to name his car, the car's really an extension of himself so I'd take him shouting "MY RIDE" over some goofy name every time it exploded. The car does feel like it's own character though when it drives off in the big DNAlien battle on autopilot, RIP. Really wish we saw more of Kevin's omniverse car, that thing was sick and the dark blue matched his color pallet super well.
So my friends and I had a discussion about Bens personality changes throughout the series. One of the things we agree on is that when Max is actually around Ben starts to become more like his og iteration. Like Ben chooses to push his responsibilities on Max rather than himself.
Have to agree, after Max almost died Ben really pushed himself to be better, it could be because he wasn't as invested or knowledgeable in plumber matters, despite being entwined in them for most of his life, so he had a lot of ground to cover, but after Max got back he began to lay off again, because Max was a much better liasion with the rest of the universe anyway
This is probably why he is serious in Ben 10: Unlimited. Losing Max, Gwen, Kevin, Julie, Ship, his parents, aunt, and uncle, really made Ben take his life seriously.
Kevin’s car should probably be named after the man who helped him revert back into human form or at least something simple like “Reformer” since it sounds tech-y and it’s a subtle nod to Kevin reforming as the series goes on
Kevin naming his car after Kwarrel, the alien who helped him learn to control his temper and powers while he was in the Null Void is a really cool idea.
Regarding the red and silver color scheme, I think it's meant to contrast the traditional omnitrix Green and black. It's most apparent when you look at Ben and Albedo
The odd thing about character development is that people in real life are hard headed too. People slide back on behaviors and don't act on the lessons they learn right away. Ben can learn and grow when he needs too, I think this is an example.
I say we call Kevin’s Car the “Bust Rucket.” Side note since Kuro mentioned it, I remember Will Friedle mentioning on a podcast (Rob Paulsen’s iirc) that his last name is pronounced “Frih-Dell.” The more you know.
Actually her brother was confirmed in the original series in one of the pop up trivias twice in the Lucky Girl and Perfect Day episodes, he’s also the one who gave Max his lucky Hawaiian shirt.
@@ghostspider2056 ok,im not american so i nevere read any pop up trivia BUT watching kuro's breakdowns i came to think that the trivias were made in reference with each episode so why is gwen brother mentioned in the lucky girl episode or the perfect day episode?
When you brought up the dn-aliens overlapping one another it reminded me of the old Ben 10 game creator on the cartoon network's website, if I remember correctly there was a "dn-alien brush" where you could copy and paste the aliens where they overlap each other.
Actually her brother was confirmed in the original series in one of the pop up trivias twice in the Lucky Girl and Perfect Day episodes, he’s also the one who gave Max his lucky Hawaiian shirt.
2 theories on why Kevin doesn't name his car: 1. He is already very attached to it, and he melts down every time Ben or someone breaks it, so if he named it, it would hurt even more. 2. Or maybe after hearing Ben name his aliens, he just thinks it's stupid, and/or doesn't even wanna try coming up with a name.
I think the inside of the Omnitrix scene was definitely all in Ben's mind due to the fact that the Omnitrix is both physically and neurologically linked to Ben because of the alien data dump that happens when he uses an unfamiliar alien. So when he's curing Ken of the Xenocite, he's probably standing there with it in his hand while the Omnitrix is curing Ken but in his head he's floating through the inner tubing of the watch.
I was thinking that because the omnitrix was meant for Max anyone with his Dna or genes like Ben can get the omnitrix. So because Ken was "infected" so his Dna was wrong or damaged or corrupted. The omnitrix detected him because of that and it learned how to cure others.
the hatchery they show is actually a fish hatchery, in the diner scene when max mentions fishing they tell him that their fish are farm grown, that was supposed to be a tip that the dnaliens are made at the fish hatchery, which is also why they are in that green water because thats normally where fish would be.
It's a mixed bag when it comes to Ben's hesitation to use the Omnitrix unless absolutely necessary. One one hand, he's playing it smart and not using up the energy when he can avoid it. Just look at all the times he changed back at an inconvenient time in the Classic Series. In this case, it also showed he had faith that Gwen could handle herself, as opposed to his previous macho mentality where he acted like he was the only capable one in the Rust Bucket On the other hand, he can change back at any time, allowing it to recharge without being completely out of juice. And in the last episode, there wasn't exactly a bigger thing he knew he had to deal with (maybe he was worried someone seeing an alien would cause a panic). It's definitely not that he isn't used to wearing the Omnitrix again, 'cause in Episode 1, he instinctually slapped down on on wrist when the DNAlien attacked him.
yeah and omnitrix speaking like a human is very weird, it should speak like AI you know, instead of "should we attempt to repair?" it should be "permission required for repairing" or smthing like this but it is all cool
_How is Max able to do this?_ I am supremely disappointed in you Kuro, it doesn't matter what you're taking into account there is one thing above it all *Infinite Tennyson strength.*
I wonder if the Facehuggers from Alien were an inspiration for the Xenocites. Both target the face to biologically subvert the body to the will of the species, and are multi-limbed creatures which seem to have a certain degree of independent mobility.
I will never get tired of these breakdowns, I just love them, you get some cool ink tank news, basically get to watch a whole Ben 10 episode, learn some cool details, it’s AWESOME
I don't think Omniverse is "afraid" to do scenes like that, it's just that they weren't allowed to. It makes me feel bad to even criticize it, cause the writers probably heard it a thousand times, and everytime the answer is "Yes, I know. I don't like that either"
I don’t agree, I think Omniverse writers were much more coherent and aware of what they were doing. Alien Force sometimes seems to me like the writers wanted to make a more mature story at all costs, putting random dramatic events on screen just to say “See? We’re making a mature Ben 10”. Highbreeds arc doesn’t even have a clear linear plot, but they kept trying to create a forced continuity that doesn’t seem that much solid at a closer look: Max that suggests Ben to specifically look for plumbers’ children for no reason, the Omnitrix and plumber badges that bring out a new feature when it’s convenient for the plot, Vulkanus that casually has Max’s holo-projector with a message to Ben and it’s unknown when he got it etc. Omniverse on the other hand created simpler and much more coherent stories where drama is there when it’s really necessary. Drama is much more interesting and impactful when it’s used in pivotal moments, not when it tends to influence the show’s general mood. I don’t dislike Alien Force, but I think the first part of the series is overrated and has the least interesting writing of all Ben 10. I appreciate more what they did with War of the Worlds of AF finale where seriousness is used when it’s necessary and the story can still be fun and not too dark
@@ultimatejager4058 I think that's completely subjective. There are shows that are mostly dramatic, and mostly dark, and never really do anything humorous, and they are enjoyed by people. I personally like dark stories, and humorous stories. I don't think the humor in Omniverse is the problem, I think the problem is Ben himself. Like, sometimes he's really insensitive and awful, like when Azmuth was basically brain drained, and Ben just laughs and says "Can we keep him this way?", when an actual caring person would probably feel really sorry for Azmuth and want to help him. Especially when this is Ben's teacher essentially. You can still have Azmuth being goofy and sticking out his tongue, without Ben being so heartless about it.
Yh fr like were people really expecting ben to do some next up shit like kill Kyber or something,(similar to ben in UA where he tried to kill Kevin) omniverse has serious moments obviously but there is no need for people to compare the dark moments to UAF or OS because cmon it's blantely obvious which scenes are serious/dark, the problem is most people want to shit on omniverse is general which i don't blame them because it' the weakest ben 10 show in the series(excluding the reboot) I used to love the show so much is was probably my favorite series followed by ultimate alien, I read all the comments and the hate omniverse was getting watch all 8 seasons of it again but damn it sucked I just didn't enjoy as much I remember simply because all the negative thoughts were getting to me, but's it still a good show imo just sucks that i can no enjoy because of how the fanbase treats it, like I said I don't blame people hating omniverse there is plenty of reason too, but when it's done like 100 times it just gets old and childish anyway that is at least how i feel, anyone is free to disagree lol.
I think Kevin would call his car "Magnum Opus", because the name literally means "someone's best work", and also it's a reference to a car in the Mad Max series
I wonder if you could in-universe explain the holographic icons on the Omnitrix being inconsistent because when Azmuth designed the recalibrated Omnitrix, he actaully added an on-board encyclopedia of the available aliens with different reference displays so that Ben might have a better idea of what each alien could do before using it, but after seeing Ben use the new Omnitrix in-person, he noticed that Ben never bothered to check the wiki and just defaulted back to the simple 2D icons for the completed official Omnitrix to spite Ben lol
Max’s death I still think holds weight. For me when a character death will or is negated by them coming back it needs to follow 3 rules. 1 does it make sense ie does the explanation for why they came back make sense in universe. 2 is this either the first time doing it or is it a rare occasion and 3 does the character coming back add more than what their death meant. In my opinion max covers all 3 easily. Obviously as you showed the explanation later has an animated scene in it with the white flash and from a logical perspective it never made sense a device made to send someone to another world would suddenly just be a normal explosion. It makes far more sense that removing the lens just made it a unfocused teleportation. Granted their is a question of why Gwen’s shield worked but that’s honestly a little detail that could be hand waved by mana. As for number 2 this is one of the only times it did it so far aside from SOTO with Gwen and Gudo. Even still this one lasted longer than those two so I feel it gets a pass on this. Finally as Kuro made it clear max does so much once he does come back that it honestly out ways the issue of him coming back. Especially since yeah Ben might have his development hurt a little but I feel that only would happen if once he came back Ben would always be a follower but that is not the case especially since he sometimes leads when max is with them showing his growth. Overall I feel his coming back is a great thing and as for the making this scene hurt less I won’t denied it kinda does but only a little since the scene is so emotionally well handled
The hatchery in this episode is most likely a fish hatchery. There's big pools of water where eggs are kept, and the DNAlien that fights Max in the opening mentioned that the town has farm-raised fish. I also wanna point out that Max is 65 in this episode and kicks way more ass than he ever did in the original series. I can buy it. Tom Cruise is 60, and I'm sure he'll still be able to do the crazy shit he does in 5 years.
Now I think he works that didn't die, it leads Ben to be a better leader and allows Max to see and be proud of what he's become plus it doesn't hit the fans to hard once they reveal he's alive, as well his survival makes enough sense like he used a Null void projector as a grenade, just because you remove the Projector part doesn't mean you make it a bomb, like those old Projectors for movies just because you remove the lens doesn't make a bomb so his death was likely planned to keep him alive
A quick animation error you missed: For the scene at 9:35 they messed up the layering on gwen, the collar of her shirt and the start of her neck were mistakengly layered BEHIND her torso.
I believe the "inside" of the omnitrix, is just a cognitive override by it. In real life Ben is just standing there with the omnitrix, but in his brain, his getting all these singals from the omnitrix, in which he visualizes
Maybe? But then we wouldn't have that callout moment when Ben is planning to put down Ultimate Kevin Also, him using a "Null Void" weapon it already gives the outcome away, enforced by the future episode "Plumber's Helpers" where Manny and Helen thought their projector was a weapon instead of just a teleporter.
28:47 Grandpa mentions the "focusing lens" I think that was a way for the writers to give themselves an out for him to survive. Basically the gun is functioning the same but it isn't doing it as a beam but rather an area of effect
The dark episodes in Ben 10 were amazing imo😅I always found them amazing when I was younger and still do. I have mix feelings about Max being alive but it didn’t ruin it for me tbh
I personally always knew grandpa max would come back eventually. Considering the device he was using. If you think about, taking off the focus lens would cause the energy to ripple outwards instead of “focusing” it to central point. I never bought he died anyway. But with Max’s absence Ben was forced to grow up and become the hero we all knew he could be. It would open the door for Textrax to be his new mentor like you suggested in the classic series. It is a shame they backed tracked that season 3 onward
@@gecko2993 well the story seemed more conclusive than the others yeah, but honestly i’d suspect the pack to have done something within those five years to keep rex in the hero buisness. Or something else with the potential to justify continuing the story.
14:47 Damn! You skipped over my favorite Kevin line of all time, I dunno what it is but something about "That's a work related accident, you can sue." stuck with me ever since seeing this episode, I quote it all the damn time. XD
All I have to say about Max's "death" is: Lol, imagine thinking Max's improv Null Void bomb actually killed him instead of sending him to the Null Void. For real though, I remember - or think I do - when watching the episode that he was sent to the Null Void because... well, the Null Void tag. Or I just didn't pay attention to the scene, since I could never get a reliable way of watching Ben 10 Ultimate Alien Force and just tried focusing on the coolness whenever I got the chance. That said, I brought this up to my brother and he brought up the fact that, though a different franchise, Jorge was killed by the Slipspace Bomb in Halo: Reach. Though I believe that's down to the fact that Slipspace is much more hostile to unshielded items whereas the Null Void is very livable, so ㄟ( ▔, ▔ )ㄏ
In H:R Jorge took his helmet off so I doubt he would’ve survived no matter where he went - either he’d be in the vacuum pf space or in an unsuitable atmosphere
@@jasurmakhkamov Jorge and the Covenant Supercarrier were transported to Slipspace, which requires a protective field in order for anything to just exist. Regardless of whether he had his helmet on or not, he'd still end up as space smoothie.
I don’t think it’s more that the bomb killed Max, more that after the transport, it’s just Max against a Hybreed and an army of DNAliens. Not good odds.
So in the scene with Gwen walking in water let’s be honest she probably made mana platforms for the gang to make the whole process silent and efficient
Phoenix would be apt, as he keeps bringing the car back from bad condition. Oh, actually, considering it keeps getting bashed up and repaired, Captain Jack! That man knows resurrection inside and out.
Idk about Max Death, maybe it's just me but I think they actually tackled his fake out death well, the way it was portrayed, it genuinely feels plausible that he survived and also his death was mainly for developing Ben, not as a tear jerker(even though it was tear jerker) so even if you know Max didn't actually die, Ben doesn't and it helps his development again. Also also fake out death only get really bad if writters overuse them, if it's like once or twice, it's fine, but if reused, it just removes tension more and more and correct me if I'm wrong but besides secrets of the Omnitrix movie, Ben 10 series almost never used fake out deaths and I'd argue that fake out death was waaay worse Also the fact that Alien Force was shown as more serious interpretation of Ben with serious tone and the fact he's grown up and Max wasn't filling in the mentor role... The series build us up to BELIEVE Max's death would be legit so the fact that he ends up surviving isn't groan inducing but pleasant surprise because we KNOW they could've killed off Max, since he technically already done his role as Ben and Gwen's mentor in classic series, so the fact they didn't kill him off is actually breaking the cliche of "mentor dies/passes away/goes in retirement after he mentors student enough"
Sure Ken never appeared after this episode but it's good to kniw that he made a small impact to Ben because as he said Ken is the coolest person he ever knew and it's great to see that Ben later names his son after the coolest person he knew. Kinda like Goku and Grandpa Gohan, where Goku named his first son after the only person who ever cared for him.
12:37 On the topic of why Ben gets the wrong alien, if you play the Ben 10 omniverse console game and pay attention to Blukic and Driba's dialogue in the first level they actually sort of explain how the transformation mechanism of the omnitrix works.
I’m really conflicted on this. I wish he would’ve died there, but I also love the devoid episode and Max’s subsequent returns where he tells the verdona story. But honestly his “death” here still carries so much weight since it made Ben and the team grow up quicker, and sort of solidified Kevin as a team player completely. Also I love the ultimate Aggregor story arc where Max had broken some bones and needed to heal. It made everything just so much more real when someone like grandpa almost died in the show (since he was fucking invincible in classic😂) Max-out was always my favorite episode, I remember the commercials hyping up the return of grandpa, this episode was really exciting.
Best way I can put it is they did it in the best way they could have to keep him alive, he has a good story for it because he just removed the lens part of the projector it just went off without a means to target it so why would it be a bomb now it's just unfocused, he stayed gone until Ben developed how he needed to and Max got to be proud of him and the fans didn't have to be to sad that he was died because he came back
When Kuro asked what should Kevin’s car be named it reminded me of Omniverse when Ben used Upgrade to merge himself with Kevin’s car and created the car robot. Not sure if that ever got a name but it did have the 11 emblem or symbol on its chest. Interesting how Ben decided to give it an 11 and not a 10.
Yeah, yuri does voice the omnitrix in OV, just pitched his voice higher and other effects added on, when i first heard the omnitrix voice in OV i thought the voice was a woman's but when i rewatched ov i realised it was yuri.
I love the omnitrix talking personally. I've always taken the fact that it's bens voice actor as a feature, it adapts to his voice so it'd have a different voice if it was coded to someone else
As it doesn't happen often, I don't think it matters. I think that getting more information on what's happening with the Omnitrix would be useful, and who better than the device itself?
As impactful as it would have been to take Max out then, I feel like that would be too much of a blow to the Original Series. I love all the Ben 10 series for their own reasons, but Alien Force already had some knocks against it for its changes (which weren't all bad), but it would've been like saying to Original Series fans, "This is the episode your series dies." And, especially since later series don't have deaths as serious as this, it would feel far too out of place with the way the series progresses.
Well I mean.. anodites have no DNA so technically he’s not. Verdona May be his great grandmother but she doesn’t have any DNA relating to him. They simply appear randomly with a anodite and a different species.
I remember watching this episode as a kid but I completely forgot Ken was supposed to be Gwen’s brother. He really should have appeared in later episodes.
Maybe the ID masks of the DNAliens are indeed made of metal, but the texture of the disguise is in transitioning back into the default mask state, kinda like how in Bethesda games it takes a second for the textures to load in or out
I'm a little behind on this. Trying to catch up to your present day videos. But in regards to Max's sacrifice, I don't think it's wasted because he survives. Ben grows as a leader because of this moment, and even with the reveal that he's alive later, he's in a situation that prevents him from joining the team, making the growth Ben takes from this moment still relevant and needed. Also, I personally believe Max knew exactly what was going to happen when he pressed that button. If he's as good as he's made out to be, he knows the intricacies of how his tech works. The lens just focused the beam, the handle actually produced the Null Void portal and he knew that (imo)
Max death never was seems like a big deal to me since he was using a null void projector. So it didn't surprise me if he did survive, the scenes is probably to make the first time viewer shock but not the people that already fan.
You're right about the DNA masks being a solid material. The aliens wear rubber ones but Kevin's was more of a solid mask. I always thought he just modified it to fit his face better
>The aliens wear rubber ones Really? I just figured it was because ripping the mask off would cause the illusion to tear along with it, considering it's what produces the whole thing.
7:00 even if it was an error we can still see his face like when various shows and movies are supposed to hide the person’s face in darkness but ultimately fails in the final product
I just got a thought regarding Max being sent to the Null Void. In the classic series, the Null Void was always treated as the worst possible place you could send someone. An inescapable prison even Vilgax feared. Kuro even said himself in the first Season 2 review video that Max basically left Phil for dead by not saving him from the Null Void. So even if a viewer was able to clue together what happened to Max, they’d still assume he’d be dead as he’s stuck in a hellscape with very little resources. So the episode where we discover he’s alive gives us two revelations: that he didn’t die and how he didn’t die: the Null Void had become colonized with affable people willing to help him.
PHANTOM FANCAST INFO: twitter.com/KuroArtist/status/1449013080457891845
Guys, you once made a video about everything ben can and can’t turn into, and you also made a video about venom in the omnitrix, and one about goku. Can you go more in depth with this topic? You said flash’s dna was changed enough to the point he can be put in the omnitrix, so does that mean spider-man can be the same situation? What about hulk, what if Ben became hulk, but then became calm, and not angry, what would happen? And ghost rider too, and sooooo much more
Since I can't be sure if my comment will get buried soon, I'm putting my name suggestion for the car as "Buttercup" since The Princess Bride was Kevin's fav fairy tale.
Anyone else find it weird that tom from toonami never cameoed or made a appearence in ben 10? i mean alien force did debue and are on adult swim/toonami and steve blum is a ben 10 regular. this was when tom was stuck on that planet after his second encounter with THE intruder wasnt it?
I mean... it would be interesting to see, Ben would be serious but not super serious (Like the Ultimate Kevin Arc) for the rest of the Alien force and foward.
@@markherrera7640 if Ben turned into hulk it would be like rath
Kevin saying Tennyson names rhyme while his father name was Devin, he is Kevin and his son is Devlin. And they all have the family name Levin, I mean that just rhymes on another level to Ken and Gwen
lol to be fair, at that point he wouldn’t have been aware of his future son’s name, but the other stuff is bad enough on its own lmao
@@officialasa yeah I know that he only get to know about his dad and son way later on, but how about looking at his name, His name is Kevin Levin, his other persona is Kevin eleven, so it has always rhymed
His middle name is also ethan Kevin E Levin
Where he has a son? 😳
Devlin doesn’t rhyme It just has similar letters
Actually Gwen's Brother doesn't entirely come out of nowhere in the Ben 10 classic episode "Lucky Girl" there's some pop-up trivia that says "Gwen has an older brother named Ken that Ben worships" and in the episode "Perfect Day" there's another pop-up that says "Grandpa Max's lucky Hawaiian shirt was given to him by Gwen's older brother Ken" so it seems like it was somewhat intended for Ken to contribute more to the story it's just a shame more was not done with him though.
It still kinda comes out of nowhere. The pop-up trivia was made after the fact. You are right though, it does seem like he was supposed to be more important.
I have a small head canon that he’s trying to join the plumbers and he’s kind of struggling.
The pop up trivia was made specifically to hype up the airing of Alien Force, the pop up versions of the classic episodes aired literally right before it in a marathon. I remember because I watched the marathon event thing for Alien Force at the time. Those were written when season 1 of Alien Force was already done and ready to begin airing. Those trivia things included a bunch of Alien Force stuff because I assume Man of Action was trying to make all the thrown together AF bullshit seem less out of nowhere but it doesn't really work because Alien Force still ends up feeling like a bizarre retconned reboot with the amount of stuff that was pointlessly changed or done incorrectly. Originally Gwen definitely was not supposed to have a brother. He was a completely pointless addition made by the people who made Alien Force who does literally nothing and immediately disappears and was never planned lol. It was extra insulting to me as a fan that they claimed that this literally nothing character gave Max his legendary shirt (that he wears all the time and has multiple of...), just to try and make him seem important somehow.
Honestly I thought max’s shirt was a gift from both Ben and Gwen the only time they agreed beforehand and max went like alright plus hey it’s stylish
@@emanuelrojas2i like to think hes just in college or something
We'll never know why a celestialsapien decided to delete Ken after this episode.
He was too boring so they sent him to the void
They forgor 💀
Well Ben tried to make a copy but probably made Ken another cousin of his, maybe he's Anodite now who knows
Yeah, Ken should have appeared in more than one episode. Sunny too. In fact, I personally think that everyone in the Tennyson family should have had a decent amount of screen time.
He is in limbo. Forever
Now thinking about it, yeah, Ken appeared out of nowhere, and disappeared as quickly as he arrived, like... Ben is more like Gwen's brother than Ken is to the audience.
About Max's possible death, you know what I would add to it, he never dies, but he loses his arm instead, and see the origin of his replacement arm we see in the future, and through the franchise, we see it change and progress.
Yeah, I would've gone with Ben's dad Carl being captured instead of Ken for reasons I don't think I really need to explain.
Yeah, maybe Carl would have been a better option than Ken. That could have been a main timeline substitute for ‘Goodbye And Good Riddance’.
@@ciarangleeson2880 yeah but then we don't get 'Grounded' next season
@@StupidWeb Eh, not really. It wouldn't be completely the same but I could still see it as the episode that comes right after Max Out.
This 👆👆
The name of Kevin’s car should be “The Alien Enforcer.”
Everyone would call it Kevin's car still
No way kevins given his car that name, sounds like something ben would try and tac onto it
the ALIEN enFORCEr
Secret alien force in the name
Shit, can't beat that, nice one
Genius
damn Ben losing Max, and Ben losing feedback.. those scenes hit hard
Yeah but he got both of the back. Feedback's return had a whole arc tho.
@@gurubhaktmohit and we didn’t know about it until the season 2 finale
@@axelnilsson5124 what a way to end it.... man
@@gurubhaktmohit well he also spends most of his life fighting aliens with only like 15 years - like 2 for classic/omniverse flashback era
You think
I always thought Kevin's car was called
"The Ride", because that's what everyone always calls it 😅
Kevin: *Get your paws **_off_** my Ride*
Gwen: *Kevin's car- Oh, sorry his "Ride"*
But he often does say "My car!"
Grandpa Max's Respect:
- "I always knew you could do it, Ben."
- "You too, Kevin."
- *Acknowledges Ken is there
- Gwen: "and Max ignored me."
"I can't believe he's done this"
I feel like they handled max's "death" scene so well, that when it's revealed he's not dead later, it doesn't seem like an afterthought retcon. I mean, sure it's cheesy, but I think it still works. The main thing was they just needed to get rid of max so that ben would be forced to go through his leadership arc, plus, the null void implosion is just a really cool set piece and makes a ton of sense from what we know from classic.
Yeah, and being a "Null Void" weapon it already gives it away, enforced by the future episode "Plumber's Helpers" where Manny and Helen thought their projector was a weapon instead of just a teleporter.
And that Ken would be a permanent part of Alien Force out of guilt.
Problem being that the Highbreed just let's Max use the projector lmao
@@albedo5455 I think the Highbreed thought that Max was bluffing about blowing them up. It makes sense since the Highbreeds are very inferior to other race that they also thinks that "yeah, this creature is stupid, does he really think he had the guts to blow up this whole facility with himself" something like that.
@@ardzzz1010 if that’s the case then he would’ve reached for the device immediately, or just torn max’s arm off
The hatchery in this is episode is actually for fish, not chickens, which is why there's so much water around. That matches slightly more with the tentacle/aquatic style of the DNAliens' hatching ground being situated there.
It's not for chickens if you're a coward
@@KraylebStudios or you enjoy chicken.
Ben: It's up to use to save the world, except for you Ken go back to the void and we will never mention you again just like before.
Ken: okay (disappear)
Gwen: Who was that?
As I recall, Kevin said that ID Masks were photon shift masks, meaning they don't change shape, they change the way photons behave (somehow), and I imagine when a mask out of the wearer's face, it's still shifting light, so it appears to have a rubber texture. This may also be the reason the mask fails when there are lightnings in place
I'm Brazilian, so I saw the dubbing in Portuguese, so maybe this isn't necessary, but I believe it's right
my problem with that explanation is how they still clearly do change the shape of the wearer, like when ben used one to look like a dnalien, if it just made him look taller instead of actually make him taller he wouldnt have to look down at kevin to see him, and if they didnt change shape then itd be pretty easy to find out someones wearing one if it just gives them a different appearance because their original shape is still there. for example if an alien with a tail put one on to look like something without one, their tail would still exist, and theyd have to worry about not hitting anything with it. while we dont see anything like that we do see the masks seemingly change someones proportions, so the same thing applies there
@@fallen5983 I mean there also exists the concept of hard-light constructs. Like what the green lanterns make or the bodies of the crystal gems in Steven universe. It is light but it is also some what solid so that can possibly explain why the change is kinda physical even if it is light-based.
Oh, like a holographic funhouse mirror?
That makes sense though , and explains why they become visible as DNA aliens with lightning strikes.
@@deuslouis7030 hard-light constructs also Canonically exist in the Ben 10 universe, that's what Tetrax's hoverboard is made of
"You found a bingo game?"
Why is Kevin just the best character?
True
I love that moment
That's a work related accident. You can sue.
There's a part of me that suspects Kevin did name his car, did so before AF starts, but the reason we never hear about it is because he couldn't possibly admit anyone he meets during the series to having named it "Gwen".
He is already crushing on her by episode 1, and the car's the other most notable entity he's consistently affectionate towards.
Coupled with the "You have to treat a car like you treat a woman" and Omniverse adding that they were crushing on the other as kids, this sounds true
You know, I actually kinda hoped that grandpa max would lose his arm in the blast and get it replaced with a robotic prosthetic we saw him having in future Ben episodes
That's actually quite clever
Me too
It’s weird that UAF have no connection to Omniverse or Future Timelines
Would have explained a couple of the future ben episodes.
@@YES-ol7el What about Ultimate Ben.
1) If Kevin had named his car, I could see him calling it the "Greenliner," since it's green and he's constantly hitting the redline with it.
2) I've had this idea for a while: If they ever made a new continuation of Ben Prime's story, Charmcaster should get a redemption episode which Ken is pivotal in. Here's my basic breakdown: Charmcaster tries to escape from someone/something, but messes up the transport spell or gets injured, resulting in her forgetting everything except that her name is Hope, Ken finds her and, being the kind soul he is, nurses her back to health and tries to help her regain her memories. A road tripping Team Tennyson (Ben, Gwen, Kai, Kevin, and Zed) decide to go to Ken's college graduation, only to find out he's basically been living with his sister's mortal enemy for at least a month. When Hope's not in the room, the team tries to tell Ken about Charmcaster's checkered past, but he doesn't believe them. Ken gets kidnapped by (insert villain who has bad blood with Charmcaster), the team plus Hope tracks him down, Hope suffers enough stress to revive her memories, but Ken admits he has feelings for her, and she chooses to give up villainy for him. Ken gets a girl, Chatmcaster gets to be more than the anti-Gwen, and Gwen gets her own foe turned friend turned eventual in-law.
3) If Kevin absorbed glass, would his body turn clear, or would he just get a layer of glass covering his body?
I love that idea.
It would give Ken more attention as well as give a proper conclusion to CharmCasters story.
The Kevin car would have to be named the kevinertible
A bit random to use Ken, and a little tosy for charmcasterin terms of villain turn arounds.
@@fightingmedialounge519how about that terrapin wizard we see he fits as a villain that wants revenge
@@levievil9220 his name is awaitja
It would have been cool to have Ken be the "Normal guy" of the group, like he's geared up and training to be a plumber like Max or something, but when he goes on adventures it becomes apparent he's inexperienced compared to Ben and Gwen. I think he would have made for a really cool 4th member of the team
I wish Max was on the team.
@@sirmel11 At least as a cameo as "the normal guy that somehow is always in the middle of an alien crisis"
it would be hilarious for comedic episodes
@@ianr.navahuber2195 yeah I was always disappointed we didn't see him more as a child, I was always curious about who he was. Could've just joined from time to time when he happened to be around.
I wish ken appeared in the show but as a male anodite... that would’ve been awesome. lol
Then Julie stuck around and we've got the 5 man band.
I rag on the inconsistencies of Gwens powers in this show, and i doubt it was intentional but the fact that Gwen's force field could prevent them from also being pulled into the null void is consistent with how the people who worshipped Dagon couldnt teleport through her shields because her powers can function through multiple dimensions so i gotta give them credit for that🤣
I kind of figured he was sent onto the Null Void, but I at least expected it be the moment when Max loses his arm and get his robotic one as we saw in the future.
Wait, how did he get his robotic arm again?
@@andresreynoso7254 never explained iirc
It’s never find out, all we get is “A lot can happen in 30 years”.
The version from the No Watch Timeline stated he lost his arm because of Vilgax.
@@andresreynoso7254 I think it's in 2017 a bit before ben starts calling himself "Ben 10,000"
@@andresreynoso7254 In the original series Pop-Up Trivia, it's said that Max lost his arm in the "Limax Wars of 2017" (The shapeshifting slime guys from Permanent Retirement). While they're not my favourite villains in the series, I think it would've been cool if the Limax returned, considering they were teased to still be alive at the end of the episode.
Something really interesting towards the Omnitrix AI theory is its usage of the term "we" in "should we attempt to repair". Of course it could be referring to we the team as Kevin and Gwen were there, but notably the only one present in the removal "vision" was ben so it feels like the omnitrix is considering itself an entity apart from Ben.
I wish Max would meet Phil in the null void. That would make for a great character interaction and maybe Phil would even get his own character arc.
Imagine an episode of Max and phill needing to work together to survive the Null Void and maybe reconciling
I don't think any of the UAF crew actually cared about Phil
Phil comes back later on.
@@michaelcarlton1484 He comes back in Omniverse. He was nowhere seen in UAF
Wouldn’t phill be some hellish spider alien hybrid at this point?
I feel like “killing” max the way they did, with a modified null void projector, the audience could simply be smart enough to know there’s a chance max just warped himself to the null void. So when it’s revealed that’s what happened, it doesn’t feel like a cop out moment, they laid out the clues for that revelation.
The most important point of a character death in fiction should always be how it affects the people around them, not whether or not they stay dead. Max's death isn't undermined when he comes back because Ben has gone through the development that he needs to go through. Had Max returned before the end of season 1 I think I'd be saying something different but that's not what happened
Exactly in s2 ben becomes so much more confident in his abilities even shown in the episode where grandpa max is shown to be alive.
@@TyandOnGoing the way he commands the resistance side by side Max in that episode shows his growth. And how he didn’t revert to who he was. A part of him that still wants his Grandpa is shown in the end, but he’s grown up to understand he has to do it.
Not exactly. The most important apsect of a characters death is the precedent it sets for the series . Such as a character death marking a tonal change, or bringing back after their death establishing major characters won't stay dead.
31:28 Actually, Gwen's brother has been mentioned before. At least technically. He was mentioned in the classic series but only in a couple of those popup trivia things.
The first being on the episode "Lucky Girl" in season 1 which stated "Gwen has an older brother named Ken that Ben worships." Another was apparently on "Perfect Day" in season 4 that stated "Grandpa Max's lucky Hawaiian shirt was given to him by Gwen's older brother Ken."
However, yea. It's really weird how they finally bring this obscure brother who has only ever been mentioned in a couple triva popup into a main story and then proceed to go back to pretending he doesn't exist. Should've kept some cameos or references to him going forwards.
To be fair, the pop up trivia only occurred during the creation of alien force.
Not the first time they just forgot about a section of the Tennysons. Remember that one cousin that married the mud alien?
I think max coming back doesn't undo anything. Unlike most shows that kill off a character only to bring them back, they bring them back during the either the next two or three episodes later or within the same season. Max was inactive for a long enough amount of time. This gives Ben enough time for the lesson to sink in to his core character and does give that big shock for the audience, disregarding the spoiler the teasers gave. But it would have been more believable if Max got some battle damge due to the explosion.
Revelation killed Adam off for only 3 episodes, but I think that's understandable, since the whole show lasts only 10. And a big amount of time passes from the time he dies.
@Blazedboy Dude, you are a genius!
That way even tho he comes back, there is a price to pay. He forever lost something.
He did say Limax wars, but you could probably make up some excuse. Maybe he thought telling her the future events would change the future.
I mean, max also came back after a couple of episodes.
I think it would actually be pretty uncharacteristic for Kevin to name his car, the car's really an extension of himself so I'd take him shouting "MY RIDE" over some goofy name every time it exploded.
The car does feel like it's own character though when it drives off in the big DNAlien battle on autopilot, RIP.
Really wish we saw more of Kevin's omniverse car, that thing was sick and the dark blue matched his color pallet super well.
So my friends and I had a discussion about Bens personality changes throughout the series. One of the things we agree on is that when Max is actually around Ben starts to become more like his og iteration. Like Ben chooses to push his responsibilities on Max rather than himself.
Good point. I never thought of this
Actually that’s a pretty good point
Have to agree, after Max almost died Ben really pushed himself to be better, it could be because he wasn't as invested or knowledgeable in plumber matters, despite being entwined in them for most of his life, so he had a lot of ground to cover, but after Max got back he began to lay off again, because Max was a much better liasion with the rest of the universe anyway
This is probably why he is serious in Ben 10: Unlimited.
Losing Max, Gwen, Kevin, Julie, Ship, his parents, aunt, and uncle, really made Ben take his life seriously.
@@AmitCinematicUniverse what’s Ben 10 Unlimited?
Kevin’s car should probably be named after the man who helped him revert back into human form or at least something simple like “Reformer” since it sounds tech-y and it’s a subtle nod to Kevin reforming as the series goes on
Kevin naming his car after Kwarrel, the alien who helped him learn to control his temper and powers while he was in the Null Void is a really cool idea.
Regarding the red and silver color scheme, I think it's meant to contrast the traditional omnitrix Green and black. It's most apparent when you look at Ben and Albedo
that’s a great point
My headcanon is that it is the foreshadowing for albedo.
29:39 that scene in Omni verse where Ben was talking to the younger version of himself was heat
The odd thing about character development is that people in real life are hard headed too. People slide back on behaviors and don't act on the lessons they learn right away.
Ben can learn and grow when he needs too, I think this is an example.
Old habits die hard…
I say we call Kevin’s Car the “Bust Rucket.”
Side note since Kuro mentioned it, I remember Will Friedle mentioning on a podcast (Rob Paulsen’s iirc) that his last name is pronounced “Frih-Dell.” The more you know.
3:30 "Oh yeah and this is the episode where Gwen randomly had a brother."
And he was instantly forgotten about
Actually her brother was confirmed in the original series in one of the pop up trivias twice in the Lucky Girl and Perfect Day episodes, he’s also the one who gave Max his lucky Hawaiian shirt.
@@ghostspider2056 ok,im not american so i nevere read any pop up trivia BUT watching kuro's breakdowns i came to think that the trivias were made in reference with each episode so why is gwen brother mentioned in the lucky girl episode or the perfect day episode?
When you brought up the dn-aliens overlapping one another it reminded me of the old Ben 10 game creator on the cartoon network's website, if I remember correctly there was a "dn-alien brush" where you could copy and paste the aliens where they overlap each other.
Kevin could have named his car Arcade cause one off his earliest happiest memories come from playing in an arcade, before Ben showed up.
0:23 I just realized kevin is doing the chad pose
Actually her brother was confirmed in the original series in one of the pop up trivias twice in the Lucky Girl and Perfect Day episodes, he’s also the one who gave Max his lucky Hawaiian shirt.
Oh shoot you're right
god i wish we still had all the pop ups there were such a great ideal
I was about to comment this, but I'm glad someone also know this information.
@@1234andrewjacksmith i just hate that there are a lot of really important information and lore that was only in the pop-ups
2 theories on why Kevin doesn't name his car:
1. He is already very attached to it, and he melts down every time Ben or someone breaks it, so if he named it, it would hurt even more.
2. Or maybe after hearing Ben name his aliens, he just thinks it's stupid, and/or doesn't even wanna try coming up with a name.
I think the inside of the Omnitrix scene was definitely all in Ben's mind due to the fact that the Omnitrix is both physically and neurologically linked to Ben because of the alien data dump that happens when he uses an unfamiliar alien. So when he's curing Ken of the Xenocite, he's probably standing there with it in his hand while the Omnitrix is curing Ken but in his head he's floating through the inner tubing of the watch.
I was thinking that because the omnitrix was meant for Max anyone with his Dna or genes like Ben can get the omnitrix. So because Ken was "infected" so his Dna was wrong or damaged or corrupted. The omnitrix detected him because of that and it learned how to cure others.
the hatchery they show is actually a fish hatchery, in the diner scene when max mentions fishing they tell him that their fish are farm grown, that was supposed to be a tip that the dnaliens are made at the fish hatchery, which is also why they are in that green water because thats normally where fish would be.
Ben's character development in AF still works even if Max was alive. The fact that we got both the development and the amazing character is great
It's a mixed bag when it comes to Ben's hesitation to use the Omnitrix unless absolutely necessary.
One one hand, he's playing it smart and not using up the energy when he can avoid it. Just look at all the times he changed back at an inconvenient time in the Classic Series.
In this case, it also showed he had faith that Gwen could handle herself, as opposed to his previous macho mentality where he acted like he was the only capable one in the Rust Bucket
On the other hand, he can change back at any time, allowing it to recharge without being completely out of juice. And in the last episode, there wasn't exactly a bigger thing he knew he had to deal with (maybe he was worried someone seeing an alien would cause a panic).
It's definitely not that he isn't used to wearing the Omnitrix again, 'cause in Episode 1, he instinctually slapped down on on wrist when the DNAlien attacked him.
Kevin looks like the kind of guy that would call his Car Kevin Jr.
Y'mean a narcissist?
@@guywithaface887 Nah, his car is like family to him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he thought if it as his child or something lol
Kevin: You gotta treat a car like you treat a woman.
I think Kevin would name his car, Kwarrel after the man who taught him at the Null Void Incarcecon.
The omnitrix talking just gives more into the idea that the omnitrix has some sort of intelligence.
yeah and omnitrix speaking like a human is very weird, it should speak like AI you know, instead of "should we attempt to repair?" it should be "permission required for repairing" or smthing like this but it is all cool
Gwen 'dying' in Secret of The Omnitrix was definitely played very dramatically
_How is Max able to do this?_
I am supremely disappointed in you Kuro, it doesn't matter what you're taking into account there is one thing above it all
*Infinite Tennyson strength.*
I'm disappointed to
Grandpa Max is stronger than Four Arms
He ain't called the greatest plumber in the universe for nothing.
I wonder if the Facehuggers from Alien were an inspiration for the Xenocites. Both target the face to biologically subvert the body to the will of the species, and are multi-limbed creatures which seem to have a certain degree of independent mobility.
They are way too similar for that not to be the case.
I will never get tired of these breakdowns, I just love them, you get some cool ink tank news, basically get to watch a whole Ben 10 episode, learn some cool details, it’s AWESOME
21:40 I agree with you but ngl, in that scenario I'd panic to save Gwen cuz it didn't look like she had it under control
I don't think Omniverse is "afraid" to do scenes like that, it's just that they weren't allowed to. It makes me feel bad to even criticize it, cause the writers probably heard it a thousand times, and everytime the answer is "Yes, I know. I don't like that either"
I don’t agree, I think Omniverse writers were much more coherent and aware of what they were doing. Alien Force sometimes seems to me like the writers wanted to make a more mature story at all costs, putting random dramatic events on screen just to say “See? We’re making a mature Ben 10”.
Highbreeds arc doesn’t even have a clear linear plot, but they kept trying to create a forced continuity that doesn’t seem that much solid at a closer look: Max that suggests Ben to specifically look for plumbers’ children for no reason, the Omnitrix and plumber badges that bring out a new feature when it’s convenient for the plot, Vulkanus that casually has Max’s holo-projector with a message to Ben and it’s unknown when he got it etc.
Omniverse on the other hand created simpler and much more coherent stories where drama is there when it’s really necessary. Drama is much more interesting and impactful when it’s used in pivotal moments, not when it tends to influence the show’s general mood. I don’t dislike Alien Force, but I think the first part of the series is overrated and has the least interesting writing of all Ben 10. I appreciate more what they did with War of the Worlds of AF finale where seriousness is used when it’s necessary and the story can still be fun and not too dark
@@ultimatejager4058 I think that's completely subjective.
There are shows that are mostly dramatic, and mostly dark, and never really do anything humorous, and they are enjoyed by people.
I personally like dark stories, and humorous stories.
I don't think the humor in Omniverse is the problem, I think the problem is Ben himself. Like, sometimes he's really insensitive and awful, like when Azmuth was basically brain drained, and Ben just laughs and says "Can we keep him this way?", when an actual caring person would probably feel really sorry for Azmuth and want to help him. Especially when this is Ben's teacher essentially.
You can still have Azmuth being goofy and sticking out his tongue, without Ben being so heartless about it.
@@HiperPivociarz Ben is just laid back in Omniverse (which really fits his character and is way better than the arrogant cocky version we got in UAF)
Yh fr like were people really expecting ben to do some next up shit like kill Kyber or something,(similar to ben in UA where he tried to kill Kevin) omniverse has serious moments obviously but there is no need for people to compare the dark moments to UAF or OS because cmon it's blantely obvious which scenes are serious/dark, the problem is most people want to shit on omniverse is general which i don't blame them because it' the weakest ben 10 show in the series(excluding the reboot) I used to love the show so much is was probably my favorite series followed by ultimate alien, I read all the comments and the hate omniverse was getting watch all 8 seasons of it again but damn it sucked I just didn't enjoy as much I remember simply because all the negative thoughts were getting to me, but's it still a good show imo just sucks that i can no enjoy because of how the fanbase treats it, like I said I don't blame people hating omniverse there is plenty of reason too, but when it's done like 100 times it just gets old and childish anyway that is at least how i feel, anyone is free to disagree lol.
@@LuisGustavoSO Wow, someone actually managed to put it into words
I think Kevin would call his car "Magnum Opus", because the name literally means "someone's best work", and also it's a reference to a car in the Mad Max series
A funny play on word for Kevin's car: 'Mai' whenever he shouts , 'Mai' car; with Mai also meaning 'Beloved'.
Interesting.. Thanks!
My cabbages!
I wonder if you could in-universe explain the holographic icons on the Omnitrix being inconsistent because when Azmuth designed the recalibrated Omnitrix, he actaully added an on-board encyclopedia of the available aliens with different reference displays so that Ben might have a better idea of what each alien could do before using it, but after seeing Ben use the new Omnitrix in-person, he noticed that Ben never bothered to check the wiki and just defaulted back to the simple 2D icons for the completed official Omnitrix to spite Ben lol
Name for Kevin’s car: Force Maverick
Also, one of my favorite Kevin lines is in this episode: “That’s a work related accident, you can sue.”
Max’s death I still think holds weight. For me when a character death will or is negated by them coming back it needs to follow 3 rules. 1 does it make sense ie does the explanation for why they came back make sense in universe. 2 is this either the first time doing it or is it a rare occasion and 3 does the character coming back add more than what their death meant. In my opinion max covers all 3 easily. Obviously as you showed the explanation later has an animated scene in it with the white flash and from a logical perspective it never made sense a device made to send someone to another world would suddenly just be a normal explosion. It makes far more sense that removing the lens just made it a unfocused teleportation. Granted their is a question of why Gwen’s shield worked but that’s honestly a little detail that could be hand waved by mana. As for number 2 this is one of the only times it did it so far aside from SOTO with Gwen and Gudo. Even still this one lasted longer than those two so I feel it gets a pass on this. Finally as Kuro made it clear max does so much once he does come back that it honestly out ways the issue of him coming back. Especially since yeah Ben might have his development hurt a little but I feel that only would happen if once he came back Ben would always be a follower but that is not the case especially since he sometimes leads when max is with them showing his growth. Overall I feel his coming back is a great thing and as for the making this scene hurt less I won’t denied it kinda does but only a little since the scene is so emotionally well handled
Kevin: The names between cousins in your family rhymes? That's so funny
Yeah say the one who his son is called Devlin and his father is called Devin
It's so weird
His grandson shall be, Kevlin
The hatchery in this episode is most likely a fish hatchery. There's big pools of water where eggs are kept, and the DNAlien that fights Max in the opening mentioned that the town has farm-raised fish.
I also wanna point out that Max is 65 in this episode and kicks way more ass than he ever did in the original series. I can buy it. Tom Cruise is 60, and I'm sure he'll still be able to do the crazy shit he does in 5 years.
He should’ve tbh, would’ve been a great send off. He’s my favourite character though, still fine with him in the series.
Are you fine with the ben 10 reboot voice actor
Now I think he works that didn't die, it leads Ben to be a better leader and allows Max to see and be proud of what he's become plus it doesn't hit the fans to hard once they reveal he's alive, as well his survival makes enough sense like he used a Null void projector as a grenade, just because you remove the Projector part doesn't mean you make it a bomb, like those old Projectors for movies just because you remove the lens doesn't make a bomb so his death was likely planned to keep him alive
@@sagittario42 nobody watches that trash
@@sagittario42 I don’t really care cause I think Ben 10 is just over, but obviously the OG is better
@@Chimerathedragon Definitely think it was fine that he stayed.
A quick animation error you missed: For the scene at 9:35 they messed up the layering on gwen, the collar of her shirt and the start of her neck were mistakengly layered BEHIND her torso.
I like to imagine Kevin secretly calls his car the Mean Green Machine. Either that or he pulls a mad Max and calls it his "Magnum Opus"
Well it is his best work throughout the show, so something blunt and obvious as Magnum Opus could work... until it gets replaced by Omniverse.
I liked the Omnitrix talking. It makes sense as it's a highly advanced tech.
True
When the DNaliens ask about the sheriff, I always thought that was code for the Highbreed since they would've recognized the omnitrix immediately.
I believe the "inside" of the omnitrix, is just a cognitive override by it. In real life Ben is just standing there with the omnitrix, but in his brain, his getting all these singals from the omnitrix, in which he visualizes
Maybe?
But then we wouldn't have that callout moment when Ben is planning to put down Ultimate Kevin
Also, him using a "Null Void" weapon it already gives the outcome away, enforced by the future episode "Plumber's Helpers" where Manny and Helen thought their projector was a weapon instead of just a teleporter.
28:47 Grandpa mentions the "focusing lens" I think that was a way for the writers to give themselves an out for him to survive.
Basically the gun is functioning the same but it isn't doing it as a beam but rather an area of effect
The dark episodes in Ben 10 were amazing imo😅I always found them amazing when I was younger and still do. I have mix feelings about Max being alive but it didn’t ruin it for me tbh
I personally always knew grandpa max would come back eventually. Considering the device he was using. If you think about, taking off the focus lens would cause the energy to ripple outwards instead of “focusing” it to central point. I never bought he died anyway. But with Max’s absence Ben was forced to grow up and become the hero we all knew he could be. It would open the door for Textrax to be his new mentor like you suggested in the classic series. It is a shame they backed tracked that season 3 onward
I recently finished generator Rex and realized why it's not rex joining Ben in 5yl. Either way this is going to be a good video as usual
Why? Rex is in a similar position as Danny (being from another universe). Not to mention InkTank using Nanites as a plot point.
@@JayRedGear I haven't read 5yl but my guess would be Danny could be more popular, or because there's no more Evos besides the pack, and possibly bobo
@@gecko2993 well the story seemed more conclusive than the others yeah, but honestly i’d suspect the pack to have done something within those five years to keep rex in the hero buisness. Or something else with the potential to justify continuing the story.
14:47 Damn! You skipped over my favorite Kevin line of all time, I dunno what it is but something about "That's a work related accident, you can sue." stuck with me ever since seeing this episode, I quote it all the damn time. XD
All I have to say about Max's "death" is: Lol, imagine thinking Max's improv Null Void bomb actually killed him instead of sending him to the Null Void.
For real though, I remember - or think I do - when watching the episode that he was sent to the Null Void because... well, the Null Void tag. Or I just didn't pay attention to the scene, since I could never get a reliable way of watching Ben 10 Ultimate Alien Force and just tried focusing on the coolness whenever I got the chance.
That said, I brought this up to my brother and he brought up the fact that, though a different franchise, Jorge was killed by the Slipspace Bomb in Halo: Reach. Though I believe that's down to the fact that Slipspace is much more hostile to unshielded items whereas the Null Void is very livable, so ㄟ( ▔, ▔ )ㄏ
In H:R Jorge took his helmet off so I doubt he would’ve survived no matter where he went - either he’d be in the vacuum pf space or in an unsuitable atmosphere
@@jasurmakhkamov Jorge and the Covenant Supercarrier were transported to Slipspace, which requires a protective field in order for anything to just exist. Regardless of whether he had his helmet on or not, he'd still end up as space smoothie.
I don’t think it’s more that the bomb killed Max, more that after the transport, it’s just Max against a Hybreed and an army of DNAliens. Not good odds.
So in the scene with Gwen walking in water let’s be honest she probably made mana platforms for the gang to make the whole process silent and efficient
This episode had me in tears when I first saw it back in the day, great breakdown as always Kuro
Kevins car can’t have a name, because he would have to think of a new name every time it gets destroyed
It would be hilarious if there was a number for every one that was replaced like the rust buckets
You do know it’s the same car right?
Phoenix would be apt, as he keeps bringing the car back from bad condition. Oh, actually, considering it keeps getting bashed up and repaired, Captain Jack! That man knows resurrection inside and out.
Idk about Max Death, maybe it's just me but I think they actually tackled his fake out death well, the way it was portrayed, it genuinely feels plausible that he survived and also his death was mainly for developing Ben, not as a tear jerker(even though it was tear jerker) so even if you know Max didn't actually die, Ben doesn't and it helps his development again.
Also also fake out death only get really bad if writters overuse them, if it's like once or twice, it's fine, but if reused, it just removes tension more and more and correct me if I'm wrong but besides secrets of the Omnitrix movie, Ben 10 series almost never used fake out deaths and I'd argue that fake out death was waaay worse
Also the fact that Alien Force was shown as more serious interpretation of Ben with serious tone and the fact he's grown up and Max wasn't filling in the mentor role... The series build us up to BELIEVE Max's death would be legit so the fact that he ends up surviving isn't groan inducing but pleasant surprise because we KNOW they could've killed off Max, since he technically already done his role as Ben and Gwen's mentor in classic series, so the fact they didn't kill him off is actually breaking the cliche of "mentor dies/passes away/goes in retirement after he mentors student enough"
Powerscalers be like: grandpa is a able to fight with the hybrid which means he's on par with Ben's aliens-country level + FTL speed
Sure Ken never appeared after this episode but it's good to kniw that he made a small impact to Ben because as he said Ken is the coolest person he ever knew and it's great to see that Ben later names his son after the coolest person he knew. Kinda like Goku and Grandpa Gohan, where Goku named his first son after the only person who ever cared for him.
12:37 On the topic of why Ben gets the wrong alien, if you play the Ben 10 omniverse console game and pay attention to Blukic and Driba's dialogue in the first level they actually sort of explain how the transformation mechanism of the omnitrix works.
Another week, another breakdown
Watching breakdowns weekly really feels like an anime
I’m really conflicted on this. I wish he would’ve died there, but I also love the devoid episode and Max’s subsequent returns where he tells the verdona story. But honestly his “death” here still carries so much weight since it made Ben and the team grow up quicker, and sort of solidified Kevin as a team player completely.
Also I love the ultimate Aggregor story arc where Max had broken some bones and needed to heal. It made everything just so much more real when someone like grandpa almost died in the show (since he was fucking invincible in classic😂)
Max-out was always my favorite episode, I remember the commercials hyping up the return of grandpa, this episode was really exciting.
Best way I can put it is they did it in the best way they could have to keep him alive, he has a good story for it because he just removed the lens part of the projector it just went off without a means to target it so why would it be a bomb now it's just unfocused, he stayed gone until Ben developed how he needed to and Max got to be proud of him and the fans didn't have to be to sad that he was died because he came back
When Kuro asked what should Kevin’s car be named it reminded me of Omniverse when Ben used Upgrade to merge himself with Kevin’s car and created the car robot. Not sure if that ever got a name but it did have the 11 emblem or symbol on its chest. Interesting how Ben decided to give it an 11 and not a 10.
Yeah, yuri does voice the omnitrix in OV, just pitched his voice higher and other effects added on, when i first heard the omnitrix voice in OV i thought the voice was a woman's but when i rewatched ov i realised it was yuri.
I love the omnitrix talking personally. I've always taken the fact that it's bens voice actor as a feature, it adapts to his voice so it'd have a different voice if it was coded to someone else
As it doesn't happen often, I don't think it matters. I think that getting more information on what's happening with the Omnitrix would be useful, and who better than the device itself?
As impactful as it would have been to take Max out then, I feel like that would be too much of a blow to the Original Series. I love all the Ben 10 series for their own reasons, but Alien Force already had some knocks against it for its changes (which weren't all bad), but it would've been like saying to Original Series fans, "This is the episode your series dies." And, especially since later series don't have deaths as serious as this, it would feel far too out of place with the way the series progresses.
And then OV does that exact same fucking thing
I wish Ken showed up more, but I know that some fact bubbles mentioned him from the original show
Ken's also a flipping anodyte so if he stuck with the team he could discover 'magic' along the way
He doesn’t have the spark
Well I mean.. anodites have no DNA so technically he’s not. Verdona May be his great grandmother but she doesn’t have any DNA relating to him. They simply appear randomly with a anodite and a different species.
I remember watching this episode as a kid but I completely forgot Ken was supposed to be Gwen’s brother. He really should have appeared in later episodes.
Maybe the ID masks of the DNAliens are indeed made of metal, but the texture of the disguise is in transitioning back into the default mask state, kinda like how in Bethesda games it takes a second for the textures to load in or out
I'm a little behind on this. Trying to catch up to your present day videos. But in regards to Max's sacrifice, I don't think it's wasted because he survives. Ben grows as a leader because of this moment, and even with the reveal that he's alive later, he's in a situation that prevents him from joining the team, making the growth Ben takes from this moment still relevant and needed.
Also, I personally believe Max knew exactly what was going to happen when he pressed that button. If he's as good as he's made out to be, he knows the intricacies of how his tech works. The lens just focused the beam, the handle actually produced the Null Void portal and he knew that (imo)
Max death never was seems like a big deal to me since he was using a null void projector.
So it didn't surprise me if he did survive, the scenes is probably to make the first time viewer shock but not the people that already fan.
“Bingo!”
“You found a bingo game?”
Found the Naked Gun reference
You're right about the DNA masks being a solid material. The aliens wear rubber ones but Kevin's was more of a solid mask. I always thought he just modified it to fit his face better
>The aliens wear rubber ones
Really? I just figured it was because ripping the mask off would cause the illusion to tear along with it, considering it's what produces the whole thing.
@@dutch_asocialite I think it's just the fact that the animators, writers forgot what the original ones looked like when Kevin wore his in season 3
Well Kevin is already in a humanoid form. The mask doesn't need to fit to an odd headshape.
@@Retro_Red good point
I get the feeling the writers wanted Ken to be a main or at least recurring character in the franchise going forward but someone above them said no
Kevin's car should be named "Indestructible"
Kevin is Gwen's brother 😂🤣tongue slip
In other words, What if Grandpa Max was Uncle Ben'd for real
Dang i really thought you would rate this episode higher. It’s definitely one of my favs. Great video as always btw;)
7:00 even if it was an error we can still see his face like when various shows and movies are supposed to hide the person’s face in darkness but ultimately fails in the final product
I just got a thought regarding Max being sent to the Null Void. In the classic series, the Null Void was always treated as the worst possible place you could send someone. An inescapable prison even Vilgax feared. Kuro even said himself in the first Season 2 review video that Max basically left Phil for dead by not saving him from the Null Void. So even if a viewer was able to clue together what happened to Max, they’d still assume he’d be dead as he’s stuck in a hellscape with very little resources. So the episode where we discover he’s alive gives us two revelations: that he didn’t die and how he didn’t die: the Null Void had become colonized with affable people willing to help him.