I think they were pressured from within, and via Boeing. Exactly the kind of thing that shouldn't happen (and was sworn to never happen again) based on lessons learned from the shuttle program.
The safest thing to do is send a dragon with two empty seats and space x suits for the two starliner crew then send starliner home on automation. That way if it has problems the crew won't be sacrificed. Send Boeing the bill for the rescue mission
Why? Dragon is hardly perfect and the risk of injury to the astronauts due to non-custom seating. Besides, 27 of 28 thrusters work and there's 10x the amount of helium needed to land safely. Boeing and NASA do not operate like SpaceX - they are very careful with every decision, especially when human life is considered. I'm sure SpaceX has the same concerns, but their development model involves numerous prototype tests where systems are improved by learning from failure. Boeing/NASA will figure out what happened and this is the last we'll hear about helium leaks. Also note that Starline is a vastly different spacecraft with a completely different mission profile. Starliner is rated for deep space missions and has already completed a significantly complex mission well beyond the Moons orbit, something Dragon cannot do.
Funny, you keep making a mistake: Starliner is a defective system, riddled with mistakes. So where is a possible out to send a proven system, the put the failure ridden capsule back on auto. Then get a dragon to take them home.
@@MrBeugh you're mixing up starliner and orion capsules... starliner is a piece of underdeveloped junk at the moment and boeing needs to work on it yet to make it safe and great... orion is the nasa developed capsule and it went around the moon.
@@MrBeugh Think you confusing Starliner spacecraft with the Orion spacecraft. During the uncrewed Artemis 1 mission in late 2022, the Orion spacecraft completed a successful trip around the Moon and back to Earth. However, post-flight inspections revealed that the Orion heat shield experienced more erosion than anticipated during the spacecraft's reentry into Earth's atmosphere.
@@MrBeugh I understand what you are saying. However, if the two astronauts are killed trying to return, NASA and Boeing Space is done!!! Why risk it? I really don't think the "custom seating" is not that of big of a risk. It's not like the crew are constantly being thrown about the capsule assenting, or descending from orbit. Pride at NASA has killed twice before. The second time it ended the Space shuttle program. If it happens again, NASA will be shut down and closed. The American people will not stand for paying for Americans to be killed in space. Boeing already has a pour history of QC! Big Time! Send Starliner home on on Auto Pilot. If all is good, NASA gets its capsule back for study and two human lives are saved. Pride is a fools game!! Alan from NC
@@bishopdredd5349 it doesn’t nor does it have to be it’s a comparison between 2 different developments going at much different speeds on a macro level.
How long does it take NASA to figure out "Boeing aren't qualified to make space vehicles anymore"? or are they not qualified to make that assessment anymore?
NASA is being blackmailed by Congress to keep feeding Boeing our tax dollars! Boeing kicks back to politicians through lobbyists! Everything is about money!
I'm beginning to understand that enthusiastic entry of the lady astronaut into the ISS! Must have been a total relief to be out of that leaky tin can! As for the return trip - discretion is the better part of valor! There is no reason to sacrifice two people to save face! BTW Wasn't Dragon cargo rated in several flights before being tested for humans? It seems that in the rush to catch up to Space X they have skipped a few steps!
The question is, can you make that call yourself? What if the other astronaut decides to go with Starliner? What’s going to happen to your career if NASA and Boeing deem it safe but you don’t want to go. Are you going to be considered mutineer and grounded/fired? Are they going to send a Dragon with empty seat for you? Who’s going to pay for it? You (the astronaut)? Good luck with your salary.
@@wisanu99 My life & returning home safe to my family is more important than my career...no amount of money can replace my life, nasa & boeing put in this situation, it's their responsibility to get me back alive, _no matter the cost_
@@ltdees2362 These are test pilots, of the absolute highest level. If NASA tells them it's OK, they'll go with it. If all they were worried about was risk and getting back to their families, etc - they'd be a professor or something.
STARLINER! Proudly presented by the creators of the 737MAX! Move over StarLiner - Make room for Sierra Space DREAMCHASER!! Please be patient. We'll be there shortly!
Sure looks like it. Also: let's hope not. But look at all the other insanity 2024 has dropped on our bingo cards. Rampant incompetence and hubris killing 2 people would be the most tame headline we're seeing.
Not saying we should put them back on board, but consider the multi-million dollar disaster that would be for Boeing if they don't. They're already facing a ton of scrutiny for 747s losing doors and such, DEI, and now THAT. I'm not sure their space division would survive.
I mean, yes, but don't forget these are the same astronauts that were scrubbed multiple times AND which had followed all of Starliner's issues over the years. It's not like they're going to say "damn, I thought this thing was going to be perfect! That's so strange we're encountering issues" lol.
Here's the no bull crap translation....At this point clearly Starliner suffered serious malfunctions and is no longer safe to carry people. There is a significant risk Starliner's propulsion could fail after leaving ISS. What NASA is struggling with now is the sunk cost fallacy. The question of is worth risking the crew to try to rescue Starliner after everything they spent developing it.... IMO they should send Starliner home unmanned and bring the crew back on Dragon. It will be a major embarrassment for Boeing and maybe the end of Starliner, but we should not risk lives to help Boeing and NASA save face.
What you said couldn't be more wrong. It's a test flight, things happen and were solved. If it was unsafe they wouldn't have docked. The next mission is supposed to be 6 months at the iss so they're making sure the vehicle can perform after a longer time at the iss. The media makes it sound way worse than what's actually going on
@@nyyjimmyv23 Your ability to hand-wave life threatening ***UNKNOWN FAILURE MODES*** in a "man-rated" system is breath-taking. YOU are the reason seven people died on the Challenger. YOU are the reason seven people died on Columbia. Are you SURE you are not a NASA "manager" from the Shuttle program? You have learned ***NOTHING*** from actual, verifiable events. If you are not re-assessing your "decision taking ability" then you are simply a lost cause. Shame is "out of style" now but "confident-incompetence" is quite in vogue.
This is the "pulled out of your own ass" translation. Most normal people can understand the announcement from Boeing, but in case you didn't actually watch the video (you didn't): Once the craft returns the failed parts will be burned up, so they want to delay the return to have more time to study the failures to prevent them in the future launches.
@@nyyjimmyv23 No...Regardless of what title they gave it this was a demonstration flight, not a test flight. The mission was to demonstrate Starliner is a safe vehicle for human space flight. It has failed miserably. Again! The helium leaks and the thruster failures are not separate problems. One almost certainly caused the other. As things stand right now there is significant possibly Starliner's thrusters will fail before it can execute a controlled reentry dooming the spacecraft along with anyone aboard. NASA can say all they like about having 70 hours of helium, it's Bull S!#t. They have 70 hours until another leak appears. Then they have 7 hours or 70 minutes or immediately no thrusters.... Starliner has failed over and over again. If NASA is forced to return it uncrewed, then rescue the crew with a SpaceX Dragon Starliner is finished. Even if it makes back home unscrewed. ...One I can tell you 1000% for sure is Starliner is not flying 6 months from now. It will be more than a year if it ever flies again.
But they need it to trouble shoot, and write and do simulations with new software that takes into account the situation with one or more less thrusters.
The NASA and Boeing engineers have said that the helium leak is still within the margin of error for a safe return. The engineers want to delay the departure as they said "to learn more about the service module" because it will burn up in the atmosphere after separation from the capsule. They obviously want to understand the helium leak to prevent it happening in the future. That's perfectly understandable.
Look at the spin Boeing but on the 1st Starliner test. Nothing new; except now there are lives on the ISS, the Starliner astronauts, and $10s of billions of dollars at stake,
@@rudivandoornegat2371 Troubleshoot? They had an opportunity to do a considerable amount of troubleshooting KNOWN problems before the damned thing launched. Giving Boeing hearing today, I'd be more than a bit concerned if I was on the ISS or the Boeing Bomb.
There's more going on here than sunk costs. There's Boeing's campaign donations to certain key senators and reps. I'm not singling Boeing out. That's just how American business is done.
@@racookster only a select subset of business adjacent to aerospace and the MIC, and it's increasingly obvious such perverse incentives have resulted in an erosion of institutional competence. so those who accept this as okay are part of the problem
Knowing I'm not a rocket scientist and knowing NASA scientists are so much smarter than me I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt that Starliner was safe to launch humans. But everything inside of me was saying that those astronauts should not go! I wonder if in the back channel those two are refusing to leave the safety of the ISS until that hunk a junk has cleared every single hurdle. In fact, I'm not in the mood for a space catastrophe and I'd be all in for Dragon to be sent up for an epic rescue. They could still send the Starliner back autonomously to gather their data. But should it be unsuccessful then the rescue would prove they made a sane and wise decision. So sick of Starliner. It is NOT necessary.
So where do you think a dragon capsule would dock? The ISS has 3 docking locations. All 3 spots have spacecraft docked to them. Clearly you don't know. Boeing is very transparent with nasa and the media. Spacex is not. They have their own issues and problems. Unless you work at the space center, you'd never know because they're all a big secret.
@@alquinn8576 honestly i feel bad for the astronauts that had to ride that death trap to orbit if i was the astronauts i would have told NASA hell no i will not go
Probably not realistic, but it is very interesting. They have the unique capability (in the ENTIRE space program, worldwide) of being able to use their OWN rocket, and having multiple proven/certified spacecraft available (not sure if any are actually prepped for flight though.) But the ability to have a launch vehicle like Falcon 9 ready pretty much whenever they or NASA wants is an incredible asset. No other country has this capability - rockets take months or years to prep, and are lost. SpaceX has F9's everywhere, including many flight-ready ones. If it was the other way around and we needed to launch a second Starliner ASAP, not only do we not have one, but there would be no rocket to launch it from - not even close.
@@EstorilEmindeed! And to your point, SpaceX DOES indeed have multiple Falcon 9 rockets standing by at multiple locations. I feel like they're probably putting together SpaceX specific custom suits for Sonny and Butch, and preparing a Crew Dragon with an early resupply mission.
The astronauts had full knowledge of issues, design and problems. They should have said no. Airplane pilots do it all the time when flights get cancelled. Astronauts should have same decision making process.
They have 45 days before the Starliner is out of spec (recharging, pressure levels, thruster certification and others) and they need to fly home by then (July 21st 2024) Or come up with another plan. It is my opinion - that they launched due to social/political/time pressure, not because they were ready to fly. Doing thruster tests this late in the test flight is really scary situation - those should have been tested EARLY during development procedures, not in-flight with astronauts involved. Of course, this is all just my opinion.
They cant even handle a replica lol. This mess of metal isn't even aerodynamic. That metal ring with holes is supposed to help keep it from tumbling out of control during reentry... I second an earlier post about sending it back autonomously and bringing our astronauts back in a fully tested and flight proven Dragon. @OhShiitakeMushrooms
I think they have something like three separate contingency plans using various thruster combinations to initiate re-entry, even though they're having failures, it remains a very redundant system.
As far back as the entire Starliner program has been pushed (7 years), another 100 mill extra for Dragon or other vehicle (Soyuz) to pick up the crew, is nothing. DO NOT risk the crew, bring Starliner home remotely on automatic (which it is mainly designed to do already) and see what happens. In regards to the comments about custom suits and seats for Dragon, I am sure NASA has the crews measurements and can custom make anything that would be needed in a few weeks.
We all already know what happens. We've ran the simulation in our own heads a thousand times. Starlemon burns up in the atmosphere. White house blames it on the Russians. 🤣
I think there is no quantifiable metrics to say, the vehicle is not safe, therefore, NASA isn’t dare to make a call for a rescue mission and send Starliner on automated re-entry. The question about who is going to pay for the cost, and if Starliner to be declared operational or not (even though it landed safely unmanned), makes this situation very murky. Boeing for sure fighting tooth and nail to land this thing manned, if they can determine that it’s safe. But it feels like they don’t know either. And who is going to make that call whether to give up or try to land manned. What if an astronaut says, no way in hell I’m going in there. Fun to watch, not fun for NASA, Boeing, or the astronauts.
You and thousands of other space program enthusiasts. If the worst case scenario happens this will finish off Boeing as a legitimate contender for manned space vehicle development. Also NASA will be hung out to dry for its favouritism and back room politics where these contracts are concerned. SpaceX Dragon had to pass a lengthy series of trials before given a human rating, Starliner on the other hand seems to get considered for express lane treatment, ignoring these persistent problems and launching with astronauts regardless. I get visions of the Columbia disaster all over again because both NASA and Boeing can’t admit Starliner wasn’t ready for prime time. Time to cancel Boeing’s contract and put them in the list of unsuitable contractors.
It takes time to calculate the costs of bonuses for upper echelon management's bonus checks when it comes to success versus failure. It's a very important calculation.😊
it's great that they have all this margin for error, but they should do a lot more rigorous bug fixing and ground testing between now and Starliner-1. Clearly going from Boe-OFT 2 to Boe-CFT they did not do enough to fully solve all the problems they encountered on OFT-2. Even if they need to push Starliner-1 back by 6 months or a year, they should do that over performing at this level again.
My brother is a contractor for NASA. He said there was an old saying. “If it ain’t Boeing we ain’t going.” I don’t know exactly what that means but it speaks to the reputation they had. How the mighty have fallen.
I'm a former mechanical engineer. It doesn't matter if it's safe if the user doesn't have confidence it's safe. The anxiety of the user is more important than the numbers on my note pad. You simply do not force someone to use something they don't have 100% confidence in. "Trust me" only goes so far.
Boeing is using very old technology. Watching Boeing today is no different than Boeing in the 60s. Why the government continues to give this dinosaur $Billions after $Billions is way beyond me. Make money a carrot for Boeing. No more tax payer money until they do something of value or new. Boeing, very embarrassing and not worth the cost of supporting this company.
having the service module burn up in the atmosphere does present a big challenge for engineers to figure out what is going on, it is a weakness in terms of the testing aspect of this mission, so it makes sense to take more time to understand it while it is still available.
@@jordanhenshaw If you recall, Boeing actually had the balls to day that their previous failure of Startliner would have been successful if astronauts were on board. That statement seems questionable at best right now.
I wonder how much trouble Suni and Butch would be in if they said, "We're not getting back on that thing"? Could be a career-ender, but that's better than a life-ender. Maybe they'd be in less trouble if they said it to someone at NASA quietly and secretly. Then, NASA and Boeing could say it was their decision and not lose face. I wouldn't want to attempt reentry in it.
I remember when NASA told Columbia to turn off it it's CB radio. At the same time they were telling people there was no problem with the Space Shuttle. NASA might not be guilty of murder, but they sure act like it.
DO NOT BRING THE CREW Home IN THAT CRAFT. That would be murder. Bring the crew back on a space X craft. Return the craft on auto pilot. This is another indication that Boeing needs to be out on overdue oversight.
At some point, NASA should cut our (taxpayers) losses and jettison the Starliner project. Let some private fool fund it for future use, and leave NASA to the pros at SpaceX and hopefully DreamChaser. Can't imagine what conversations they're having on the ISS right now...
At the moment, Boeing has a terrible reputation. In addition to the Starliner see KC-46, T-7 and 737 MAX. We all know that NASA hubris killed 14 Shuttle astronauts. There's a winning combination for yo!
veryone think s that the astronauts are just being professional by not discussing their concerns with the starliner - but in reality they have seen what happens to boeing whistleblowers these days.
@@nyyjimmyv23 Undock something? Why do you keep posting this dumb non-point? Also, there are 8 locations on the ISS, 4 for Russia, 4 for the US, bud. SO even if 3 are in use, there's a spare. So many levels of stupid to your comment. Like an onion of idiocy.
How long till they decide to try and return it uncrewed with Dragon performing a rescue? How badly will NASA/FAA subject SpaceX and Blue Origin to new protocols because they and Boeing were incompetent?
@phlogistanjones2722 and you think dragon could just go up there on command lol they wouldn't make it up there any time soon. You don't know how aerospace works.
Data at their finger tips. Reporter “what is the minimum thrusters needed to get back? Stitch “that’s a really interesting question” My favourite resource to any 101 question that has a simple definitive answer “well that depends!”
Do we think there will need to be another test flight, CFT-2, before the first full Starliner flight? How could there not be another test when the next flight is supposed to support a full crew for around 6 months?
Boeing has blood on their hands already. 346 souls were lost in the two 737-Max crashes alone. Why are we trusting them for the lives of our astronauts? Unacceptable! StarLemon must go. Bring in a Crew Dragon and bring our people home safely!
This time the astronauts had plenty of time to be fully aware of the risks and problems. I think it was unwise the astronauts agreed to proceed knowing the issues problems. Now they are stuck.
I am not a particularly astute person but years ago when I heard that Boeing had moved its head offices to Chicago, I predicted then it would be the end of Boeing. Looks like I was right.
NASA could save billions of USD by jettisoning the starliner towards the Sun and scrapping the program. However, I do believe the two who have drawn the short straws should make that decision.
Betcha there's talk of sending a Crew Dragon to bring them home so that "NASA AND BOEING can have more time to learn about and study these issues" ... And save face from the loss of human life.
considering this is another Boeing Quality Control Issue and it shouldn't have been launched with humans on-board, they are nervously praying they can get them back alive... this CONTRACT SHOULD BE RECINDED...
@@chuck7299 NASA nevers builds anything. They did not build the solid rocket boosters that took down the challenger. They have their hand in the design and sign off on all the work contractors do for them.
@@chuck7299I'm sure boeing didn't make it either, and instead bought some shit off the shelf....he'll their airplanes can't even stay together 😒. They have no business flying astronauts.
Boeing needs to send up someone from Spirit Aerosystems on a Soyuz to spray flat green anticorrosive paint on all of the helium and hypergolic propellant/oxidizer valves in order to make it look as if they had actually been serviced. Then they need to dispatch a Crew Dragon to safely return Suni and Butch safely back to earth (in Dragon's case, a splashdown off the coast of Florida). From there, Boeing needs to charter an Airbus A-320 to safely transport Suni back to Needham, Mass., and Butch back to Houston, TX. Then a Boeing spokesman or spokeswoman needs to take a deep breath of 21% O2 and 79% He and announce in their best Mickey or Minnie Mouse voice that the first Starship astronauts are safely back from the ISS.
Boing has become a joke. Engineering has been precarious for too many years and belongs to the era of Jerry Lewis. The exception is that Jerry Lewis was funny and Boing is killing people without consequences. Please rescue astronauts with SpaceX Dragon!👁
Scrubliner in trouble again, mo kidding , I hope the crew will make it back unharmed, but this is ridiculous how Nasa allowed this piece of sugar honey iced tea of aircraft to even go to the ISS and put everyone up there in trouble Shame NASA & Boeing
@@ghost307 bro NASA literally funded dragon and made Starliner sit on the sidelines for 4 years while dragon ate its contracts. NASA wants redundancy and competition, which everyone should want. I'm sure they're as disappointed as the rest of us that starliner turned out to be a piece of junk
@@ghost307 they're required for undocking which is required for reentry. Ever since 3 cosmonauts were exposed to vacuum during an undocking procedure, all docking, undocking and launch procedures require space suits
This launch should have been aborted when the helium leaks were first detected on the launch pad. Sending crew back in this vessel is just asking for trouble. If after leaving the space station they discover they cannot perform the necessary de-orbit burn, it is likely they will not be able to redock with the space station. This could be a death sentence. In my view this situation dictates that our two astronauts hitch a ride home on the Falcon. If Boeing and NASA are embarrassed over this, they should be. If limited resources on the station require they leave early, so be it.
If I was on the crew assigned to return on that thing, I'd be telling Boeing I'll wait until SpaceX sends up their craft to catch a ride home. I'd trust Boeing's development and management staff exactly zero.
I just don't understand how such a small capsule could have so many problems like these? Its been a long time and this should have been ironed out by now,. Is this really how low Boeing has fallen now?
If they wait long enough all of the helium should just leak out therby ending the leaks.
million IQ right there 😂
@@alquinn8576 it was a joke if you couldn't tell
Sounds like a plan to me!!! 😂😂😂
LOL
Thank you for providing your expert perspective, Mr. Boeing Engineer.
This really should have been an uncrewed test flight. It's just not ready. Still.
I think they were pressured from within, and via Boeing. Exactly the kind of thing that shouldn't happen (and was sworn to never happen again) based on lessons learned from the shuttle program.
Based on their consistent track record, Boeing never will be ready.
I think they were aiming to improve PR and take the heat off the planes falling apart in flight.
The safest thing to do is send a dragon with two empty seats and space x suits for the two starliner crew then send starliner home on automation. That way if it has problems the crew won't be sacrificed. Send Boeing the bill for the rescue mission
Why? Dragon is hardly perfect and the risk of injury to the astronauts due to non-custom seating. Besides, 27 of 28 thrusters work and there's 10x the amount of helium needed to land safely. Boeing and NASA do not operate like SpaceX - they are very careful with every decision, especially when human life is considered. I'm sure SpaceX has the same concerns, but their development model involves numerous prototype tests where systems are improved by learning from failure. Boeing/NASA will figure out what happened and this is the last we'll hear about helium leaks. Also note that Starline is a vastly different spacecraft with a completely different mission profile. Starliner is rated for deep space missions and has already completed a significantly complex mission well beyond the Moons orbit, something Dragon cannot do.
Funny, you keep making a mistake: Starliner is a defective system, riddled with mistakes. So where is a possible out to send a proven system, the put the failure ridden capsule back on auto. Then get a dragon to take them home.
@@MrBeugh you're mixing up starliner and orion capsules... starliner is a piece of underdeveloped junk at the moment and boeing needs to work on it yet to make it safe and great... orion is the nasa developed capsule and it went around the moon.
@@MrBeugh Think you confusing Starliner spacecraft with the Orion spacecraft. During the uncrewed Artemis 1 mission in late 2022, the Orion spacecraft completed a successful trip around the Moon and back to Earth. However, post-flight inspections revealed that the Orion heat shield experienced more erosion than anticipated during the spacecraft's reentry into Earth's atmosphere.
@@MrBeugh I understand what you are saying. However, if the two astronauts are killed trying to return, NASA and Boeing Space is done!!! Why risk it? I really don't think the "custom seating" is not that of big of a risk. It's not like the crew are constantly being thrown about the capsule assenting, or descending from orbit. Pride at NASA has killed twice before. The second time it ended the Space shuttle program. If it happens again, NASA will be shut down and closed. The American people will not stand for paying for Americans to be killed in space. Boeing already has a pour history of QC! Big Time! Send Starliner home on on Auto Pilot. If all is good, NASA gets its capsule back for study and two human lives are saved. Pride is a fools game!!
Alan from NC
at this point there will be another starship launch before starliner comes home...
July 21st is the last day that Starliner can still be in space
Well how come they are bringing it home the 26th? @rudivandoornegat2371
@@wrxsti198726th of June, 21st of July
Starship is a prototype, that doesn't carry people. How does that relate to this?
@@bishopdredd5349 it doesn’t nor does it have to be it’s a comparison between 2 different developments going at much different speeds on a macro level.
How long does it take NASA to figure out "Boeing aren't qualified to make space vehicles anymore"? or are they not qualified to make that assessment anymore?
It's not up to NASA, it's up to Congress unfortunately.
The only thing that Boeing made for Apollo was the first stage...and the engines were handed to them by the air force.
Government contracts go to the lowest bidder.
@@bluesteel8376 Agreed. And the lowest bidder isn't necessarily the best supplier/contractor.
NASA is being blackmailed by Congress to keep feeding Boeing our tax dollars! Boeing kicks back to politicians through lobbyists! Everything is about money!
I'm beginning to understand that enthusiastic entry of the lady astronaut into the ISS! Must have been a total relief to be out of that leaky tin can! As for the return trip - discretion is the better part of valor! There is no reason to sacrifice two people to save face! BTW Wasn't Dragon cargo rated in several flights before being tested for humans? It seems that in the rush to catch up to Space X they have skipped a few steps!
Dragon had 25 cargo flights before Crew Dragon.
@@snorman1911I think they were referring to being spec to human flight ie. pressure, oxygen, cooling, etc etc.
If I were the Astronauts I would wait for a Dragon. Let the Starliner deorbit with no one onboard minimizing risk to them.
The question is, can you make that call yourself? What if the other astronaut decides to go with Starliner? What’s going to happen to your career if NASA and Boeing deem it safe but you don’t want to go. Are you going to be considered mutineer and grounded/fired? Are they going to send a Dragon with empty seat for you? Who’s going to pay for it? You (the astronaut)? Good luck with your salary.
Not possible, edit: or necessary
@@wisanu99 My life & returning home safe to my family is more important than my career...no amount of
money can replace my life, nasa & boeing put in this situation, it's their responsibility to get me back alive,
_no matter the cost_
@@ltdees2362 These are test pilots, of the absolute highest level. If NASA tells them it's OK, they'll go with it. If all they were worried about was risk and getting back to their families, etc - they'd be a professor or something.
They are not even close to test pilots. They are regular astronauts.
Boeing: Do what ever you want BUT don't kill the Astronauts trying to prove a point!
Or any whistleblowers 👍
That seems to be what today's NASA does best, a la Challenger and Columbia.
I'm going to buy some Boeing stock puts...that makes it a win/win for me
Boeing has no problem killing people.
@@ghost307 challenger was closer to the moon landing than today and columbia happened over 20 years ago. thats wasn't todays nasa
STARLINER! Proudly presented by the creators of the 737MAX!
Move over StarLiner - Make room for Sierra Space DREAMCHASER!! Please be patient. We'll be there shortly!
Boeing Starliner, the OceanGate of space.
Sure looks like it. Also: let's hope not.
But look at all the other insanity 2024 has dropped on our bingo cards. Rampant incompetence and hubris killing 2 people would be the most tame headline we're seeing.
Do not put them back in that craft. Do not sacrifice 2 astronauts to Boeing’s bravado.
NASA has a reputation and history about ignoring problems and killing astronauts...
Not saying we should put them back on board, but consider the multi-million dollar disaster that would be for Boeing if they don't. They're already facing a ton of scrutiny for 747s losing doors and such, DEI, and now THAT. I'm not sure their space division would survive.
@@jonathanbranyon It was a 737 that had the door plug blow out.
would love to be a fly on the wall in the space station right now lol
Dude...that was my first thought also, I cannot comprehend the anxiety level on board the iss...
No one is laughing. This is close to a suicide mission… Just saying…
I mean, yes, but don't forget these are the same astronauts that were scrubbed multiple times AND which had followed all of Starliner's issues over the years. It's not like they're going to say "damn, I thought this thing was going to be perfect! That's so strange we're encountering issues" lol.
@@EstorilEmthat's fair.
Previous space craft were made by Rockwell. Boeing acquired them and clearly lost all the institutional knowledge in the process.
Technically made by North American Aviation, but I agree completely.
Here's the no bull crap translation....At this point clearly Starliner suffered serious malfunctions and is no longer safe to carry people. There is a significant risk Starliner's propulsion could fail after leaving ISS. What NASA is struggling with now is the sunk cost fallacy. The question of is worth risking the crew to try to rescue Starliner after everything they spent developing it.... IMO they should send Starliner home unmanned and bring the crew back on Dragon. It will be a major embarrassment for Boeing and maybe the end of Starliner, but we should not risk lives to help Boeing and NASA save face.
Can’t imagine the frustration and embarrassment starliner team is experiencing
What you said couldn't be more wrong. It's a test flight, things happen and were solved. If it was unsafe they wouldn't have docked. The next mission is supposed to be 6 months at the iss so they're making sure the vehicle can perform after a longer time at the iss. The media makes it sound way worse than what's actually going on
@@nyyjimmyv23 Your ability to hand-wave life threatening ***UNKNOWN FAILURE MODES*** in a "man-rated" system is breath-taking.
YOU are the reason seven people died on the Challenger. YOU are the reason seven people died on Columbia.
Are you SURE you are not a NASA "manager" from the Shuttle program? You have learned ***NOTHING*** from actual, verifiable events.
If you are not re-assessing your "decision taking ability" then you are simply a lost cause. Shame is "out of style" now but "confident-incompetence" is quite in vogue.
This is the "pulled out of your own ass" translation. Most normal people can understand the announcement from Boeing, but in case you didn't actually watch the video (you didn't): Once the craft returns the failed parts will be burned up, so they want to delay the return to have more time to study the failures to prevent them in the future launches.
@@nyyjimmyv23 No...Regardless of what title they gave it this was a demonstration flight, not a test flight. The mission was to demonstrate Starliner is a safe vehicle for human space flight. It has failed miserably. Again!
The helium leaks and the thruster failures are not separate problems. One almost certainly caused the other.
As things stand right now there is significant possibly Starliner's thrusters will fail before it can execute a controlled reentry dooming the spacecraft along with anyone aboard.
NASA can say all they like about having 70 hours of helium, it's Bull S!#t. They have 70 hours until another leak appears. Then they have 7 hours or 70 minutes or immediately no thrusters....
Starliner has failed over and over again. If NASA is forced to return it uncrewed, then rescue the crew with a SpaceX Dragon Starliner is finished. Even if it makes back home unscrewed.
...One I can tell you 1000% for sure is Starliner is not flying 6 months from now. It will be more than a year if it ever flies again.
These delays are not a good sign.
But they need it to trouble shoot, and write and do simulations with new software that takes into account the situation with one or more less thrusters.
@@rudivandoornegat2371exactly, it’s not good !!
The NASA and Boeing engineers have said that the helium leak is still within the margin of error for a safe return. The engineers want to delay the departure as they said "to learn more about the service module" because it will burn up in the atmosphere after separation from the capsule. They obviously want to understand the helium leak to prevent it happening in the future. That's perfectly understandable.
Look at the spin Boeing but on the 1st Starliner test. Nothing new; except now there are lives on the ISS, the Starliner astronauts, and $10s of billions of dollars at stake,
@@rudivandoornegat2371 Troubleshoot? They had an opportunity to do a considerable amount of troubleshooting KNOWN problems before the damned thing launched. Giving Boeing hearing today, I'd be more than a bit concerned if I was on the ISS or the Boeing Bomb.
Starliner may soon become the most expensive bedroom in human history, and confirmed free of helium.
They need the docking port so they'd still have to deorbit Starliner somehow.
The sunk cost fallacy at work.
There's more going on here than sunk costs. There's Boeing's campaign donations to certain key senators and reps. I'm not singling Boeing out. That's just how American business is done.
@@racookster only a select subset of business adjacent to aerospace and the MIC, and it's increasingly obvious such perverse incentives have resulted in an erosion of institutional competence. so those who accept this as okay are part of the problem
Knowing I'm not a rocket scientist and knowing NASA scientists are so much smarter than me I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt that Starliner was safe to launch humans. But everything inside of me was saying that those astronauts should not go! I wonder if in the back channel those two are refusing to leave the safety of the ISS until that hunk a junk has cleared every single hurdle. In fact, I'm not in the mood for a space catastrophe and I'd be all in for Dragon to be sent up for an epic rescue. They could still send the Starliner back autonomously to gather their data. But should it be unsuccessful then the rescue would prove they made a sane and wise decision. So sick of Starliner. It is NOT necessary.
Nice pfp
So where do you think a dragon capsule would dock? The ISS has 3 docking locations. All 3 spots have spacecraft docked to them. Clearly you don't know. Boeing is very transparent with nasa and the media. Spacex is not. They have their own issues and problems. Unless you work at the space center, you'd never know because they're all a big secret.
Yes, we don't need more than one way into space. Concentrate that entire industry into one company. What could go wrong?
@@filonin2 Sierra could prob get dreamchaser crew ready faster than Boeing could fully fix starliners designs at this point.
The trouble is that it won’t clear every hurdle until it has been sent home - then, fortunately or unfortunately, you find the truth. . .
Boeing is the Chrysler of aerospace.
lol
Who Didn't See This Coming?
Anybody not paying attention??? 😅
Best guess I got. Not sorry.
@@jamesogden7756everyone that’s in the Boeing fanbase and those that still think Starliner will succeed kinda naive in my opinion
honestly, I expected it to fail (worse) on the way up
@@alquinn8576 honestly i feel bad for the astronauts that had to ride that death trap to orbit if i was the astronauts i would have told NASA hell no i will not go
@@giminai8000 aren't they experienced test pilots? I'm sure they were fine with the risk, at least
Meanwhile, SpaceX is waiting for the phone to ring!!
Believe me, Space X has definitely been contacted and is preparing….
My thoughts as well... NASA may be insisting they don't need it, but you can bet Elon's folks are putting a Dragon together... just in case.
Probably not realistic, but it is very interesting. They have the unique capability (in the ENTIRE space program, worldwide) of being able to use their OWN rocket, and having multiple proven/certified spacecraft available (not sure if any are actually prepped for flight though.) But the ability to have a launch vehicle like Falcon 9 ready pretty much whenever they or NASA wants is an incredible asset. No other country has this capability - rockets take months or years to prep, and are lost. SpaceX has F9's everywhere, including many flight-ready ones. If it was the other way around and we needed to launch a second Starliner ASAP, not only do we not have one, but there would be no rocket to launch it from - not even close.
@@EstorilEmindeed! And to your point, SpaceX DOES indeed have multiple Falcon 9 rockets standing by at multiple locations. I feel like they're probably putting together SpaceX specific custom suits for Sonny and Butch, and preparing a Crew Dragon with an early resupply mission.
If I were those 2, i wouldn't get back in that module. Should have never launched off that pad
She looks scared
The astronauts had full knowledge of issues, design and problems. They should have said no. Airplane pilots do it all the time when flights get cancelled. Astronauts should have same decision making process.
NASA selected older astronauts. Wonder why.
@@HenkvanHoekthey chose experienced astronauts, one is also a Boeing contract astronaut.
As long as it took Starliner to get a crew into orbit… the crew might be the longest space duration of any crew before they can come home
That was the Soyuz crew fron last year.
Don't forget about the cosmonaut who was stranded when the USSR broke up.
they should take their time, it's a test run
They have 45 days before the Starliner is out of spec (recharging, pressure levels, thruster certification and others) and they need to fly home by then (July 21st 2024)
Or come up with another plan.
It is my opinion - that they launched due to social/political/time pressure, not because they were ready to fly.
Doing thruster tests this late in the test flight is really scary situation - those should have been tested EARLY during development procedures, not in-flight with astronauts involved.
Of course, this is all just my opinion.
Animation is not that arduous!
Take their time? They’ve been at it for a full decade now to basically make a capsule replica from the 1960s. SMH.
They cant even handle a replica lol. This mess of metal isn't even aerodynamic. That metal ring with holes is supposed to help keep it from tumbling out of control during reentry... I second an earlier post about sending it back autonomously and bringing our astronauts back in a fully tested and flight proven Dragon. @OhShiitakeMushrooms
@@migs7220the ring is to prevent shockwaves during launch since it's a sharp drop from Starliner to the Centaur upper stage
next video about starliner: Boeing has killed 2 austronauts, NASA choses boeing for martian capsule contract awards 50 billion to boeing,
If it takes this long to test, then the management is pushing and the crew is in danger.
What happens if a bunch of other thrusters start acting up when they need to precisely orient the capsule for re-entry in a time-sensitive manner?
I think they have something like three separate contingency plans using various thruster combinations to initiate re-entry, even though they're having failures, it remains a very redundant system.
Not "Crewed Starliner", but "Crude StarLemon".
As far back as the entire Starliner program has been pushed (7 years), another 100 mill extra for Dragon or other vehicle (Soyuz) to pick up the crew, is nothing. DO NOT risk the crew, bring Starliner home remotely on automatic (which it is mainly designed to do already) and see what happens. In regards to the comments about custom suits and seats for Dragon, I am sure NASA has the crews measurements and can custom make anything that would be needed in a few weeks.
AFTER rescuing our astronauts with a Crew Dragon, I would like NASA to try to de-orbit the unmanned StarLemon and see what happens.
We all already know what happens. We've ran the simulation in our own heads a thousand times. Starlemon burns up in the atmosphere. White house blames it on the Russians. 🤣
Where would a dragon capsule dock? 3 locations on ISS and all 3 are full. Figure that one out bud
Love Star🍋lemon love it
Crew Dragon rescue ! No way I'd leave ISS on that thing.!
You gotta believe Elon's crew is putting one together right now, just in case....
I think there is no quantifiable metrics to say, the vehicle is not safe, therefore, NASA isn’t dare to make a call for a rescue mission and send Starliner on automated re-entry. The question about who is going to pay for the cost, and if Starliner to be declared operational or not (even though it landed safely unmanned), makes this situation very murky. Boeing for sure fighting tooth and nail to land this thing manned, if they can determine that it’s safe. But it feels like they don’t know either. And who is going to make that call whether to give up or try to land manned. What if an astronaut says, no way in hell I’m going in there. Fun to watch, not fun for NASA, Boeing, or the astronauts.
They need more time than they are saying.
I've got a bad feeling about this!
You and thousands of other space program enthusiasts.
If the worst case scenario happens this will finish off Boeing as a legitimate contender for manned space vehicle development.
Also NASA will be hung out to dry for its favouritism and back room politics where these contracts are concerned.
SpaceX Dragon had to pass a lengthy series of trials before given a human rating, Starliner on the other hand seems to get considered for express lane treatment, ignoring these persistent problems and launching with astronauts regardless.
I get visions of the Columbia disaster all over again because both NASA and Boeing can’t admit Starliner wasn’t ready for prime time.
Time to cancel Boeing’s contract and put them in the list of unsuitable contractors.
So true.... and no one needed the Force to figure out the depravity of this situation.
Damn, now I'm shocked the entire comment section wasn't this exact quote! So appropriate it hurts!
It takes time to calculate the costs of bonuses for upper echelon management's bonus checks when it comes to success versus failure. It's a very important calculation.😊
Your channel is a beacon of light over the sea of disinformation surrounding it. Please keep up the good work. 👍🏻
it's great that they have all this margin for error, but they should do a lot more rigorous bug fixing and ground testing between now and Starliner-1. Clearly going from Boe-OFT 2 to Boe-CFT they did not do enough to fully solve all the problems they encountered on OFT-2. Even if they need to push Starliner-1 back by 6 months or a year, they should do that over performing at this level again.
Hey look it’s a comment that’s actually reasonably crafted and adds value to the bigger discussion. Those are rare!
Just review today's Boeing hearing. They're in Deep, deep, shit. This isn't a casual problem they're working through
My brother is a contractor for NASA. He said there was an old saying. “If it ain’t Boeing we ain’t going.” I don’t know exactly what that means but it speaks to the reputation they had. How the mighty have fallen.
I'm a former mechanical engineer. It doesn't matter if it's safe if the user doesn't have confidence it's safe. The anxiety of the user is more important than the numbers on my note pad. You simply do not force someone to use something they don't have 100% confidence in. "Trust me" only goes so far.
Boeing is using very old technology. Watching Boeing today is no different than Boeing in the 60s. Why the government continues to give this dinosaur $Billions after $Billions is way beyond me. Make money a carrot for Boeing. No more tax payer money until they do something of value or new. Boeing, very embarrassing and not worth the cost of supporting this company.
They are probably trying to figure out to close the door. LOL
having the service module burn up in the atmosphere does present a big challenge for engineers to figure out what is going on, it is a weakness in terms of the testing aspect of this mission, so it makes sense to take more time to understand it while it is still available.
Should have understood it before they flew humans.
@@jordanhenshaw If you recall, Boeing actually had the balls to day that their previous failure of Startliner would have been successful if astronauts were on board. That statement seems questionable at best right now.
@@craighermle7727OFT 2 also had thruster issues...it is not a new problem.
I wonder how much trouble Suni and Butch would be in if they said, "We're not getting back on that thing"? Could be a career-ender, but that's better than a life-ender. Maybe they'd be in less trouble if they said it to someone at NASA quietly and secretly. Then, NASA and Boeing could say it was their decision and not lose face. I wouldn't want to attempt reentry in it.
I remember when NASA told Columbia to turn off it it's CB radio.
At the same time they were telling people there was no problem with the Space Shuttle.
NASA might not be guilty of murder, but they sure act like it.
NASA needs to get their/our money back from Boeing! What a pile of junk starliner is!
At least, NASA isn't sacrificing these people like they have done to so many, before.
What a bunch of double talk. Do you think we can't see what is happening?
Scary that so many mistakes still on the space craft after over a decade this ship is a death trap
Every problem for now has been on the service module. Not in the crewed section.
So for now crew survivability hasn't been compromised.
Agreed. At this stage it's criminal negligence
Boeing only cares about $$
@@nachoolo but what about an explosion from service module
@@understandingautism1389 ...None of the problems found for now could lead to an explosion of the service module.
i know wher it’s leaking. They better check if all the bolts are in around the hatch.
Best of luck, NASA.
Call Elon, pay him for a Dragon mission, and I'm sure he'll have it launched before the 26th.
Houston we have a problem.
Problem due to 'high demand of thrusters' -- ya mean turning them on ... boeing.......
Yeah...who knew that when a space craft was in space that thrusters are needed.
Boeing must have missed that memo.
*BOEING - THE METAPHOR FOR AM3RIC4*
DO NOT BRING THE CREW Home IN THAT CRAFT. That would be murder. Bring the crew back on a space X craft.
Return the craft on auto pilot.
This is another indication that Boeing needs to be out on overdue oversight.
At some point, NASA should cut our (taxpayers) losses and jettison the Starliner project. Let some private fool fund it for future use, and leave NASA to the pros at SpaceX and hopefully DreamChaser. Can't imagine what conversations they're having on the ISS right now...
For Boeing, their reputation is more important than the life of the astronauts.
Hopefully Nasa is not contaminated by this kind of vice.
At the moment, Boeing has a terrible reputation. In addition to the Starliner see KC-46, T-7 and 737 MAX. We all know that NASA hubris killed 14 Shuttle astronauts. There's a winning combination for yo!
Tecnically if the life of the astronauts are lost that is very bad for the reputation of Boeing.
I like this narrator, he sounds very good and is not a general talker.
careful reporting on any Boeing problems...some people have health problems after doing just that
Better to be Safe !!!!
You can't delay reality forever. The Boeing flatliner is dead on arrival. They should be forced to return the money for breach of contract!
ScaryLiner
veryone think s that the astronauts are just being professional by not discussing their concerns with the starliner - but in reality they have seen what happens to boeing whistleblowers these days.
Send a dragon!
Where would it dock? 3 locations on ISS and 3 are in use. Good try bud
@@nyyjimmyv23 Undock something? Why do you keep posting this dumb non-point? Also, there are 8 locations on the ISS, 4 for Russia, 4 for the US, bud. SO even if 3 are in use, there's a spare. So many levels of stupid to your comment. Like an onion of idiocy.
How long till they decide to try and return it uncrewed with Dragon performing a rescue?
How badly will NASA/FAA subject SpaceX and Blue Origin to new protocols because they and Boeing were incompetent?
What a load of crap. They just KNOW there is a spare roll of duct tape on the ISS they just need the time to find it
Send it back without the crew asap, it's at ticking time bomb that could destroy the ISS!
Ditch StarLemon and send up a Crew Dragon.
Where do you think the dragon capsule would dock if they send one up? 3 docking locations and all 3 are full. The math isn't mathing
@@nyyjimmyv23 Why you send it back uncrewed. "Problem solving" is not your forte.
@phlogistanjones2722 and you think dragon could just go up there on command lol they wouldn't make it up there any time soon. You don't know how aerospace works.
Data at their finger tips. Reporter “what is the minimum thrusters needed to get back? Stitch “that’s a really interesting question” My favourite resource to any 101 question that has a simple definitive answer “well that depends!”
To quote a famous interview "What is the minimum crew requirment" "1 I suppose"
Starliner is the new Edsel…
Do we think there will need to be another test flight, CFT-2, before the first full Starliner flight? How could there not be another test when the next flight is supposed to support a full crew for around 6 months?
Send a Dragon with 2 extra suits and send Starlemon back empty. Then cancel this debacle and go with Dreamchaser as the alternative to Dragon.
A funeral home should consider purchasing Starliner. It would be perfect for cremations as it returns to earth.
This should not be a test flight. They already had two test flights. How many test flights do they need?
At least two more without a crew
SpaceX is already at 4, so more. Why do you think testing is bad? Hit on the head?
Junk
Boeing has blood on their hands already. 346 souls were lost in the two 737-Max crashes alone. Why are we trusting them for the lives of our astronauts? Unacceptable! StarLemon must go. Bring in a Crew Dragon and bring our people home safely!
Hold on there chief. Have you forgotten the Boeing vanishing act? Technically didn't crash. It just vanished 🤣
Completely different division of Boeing, so tying the two together is ignorant.
@@spydude38 - Boeing are the ones that want the divisions seen as some kind of unified 'magic' - so this is on them.
@@spydude38same board. Same CEO. Same company. The issue isn’t which division it’s an endemic failure of management across the business.
This time the astronauts had plenty of time to be fully aware of the risks and problems. I think it was unwise the astronauts agreed to proceed knowing the issues problems. Now they are stuck.
I am not a particularly astute person but years ago when I heard that Boeing had moved its head offices to Chicago, I predicted then it would be the end of Boeing. Looks like I was right.
Just as it too long to launch, it will be the same in orbit _ a catastrophe waiting to happen.
NASA could save billions of USD by jettisoning the starliner towards the Sun and scrapping the program. However, I do believe the two who have drawn the short straws should make that decision.
If you go to space, why would you go up with LONG hair? Wow. Also, Boeing sucks.
Because they are more fun and far more successful than you will ever be.
Space is hard and you cannot simulate everything! Retired rocket manufacturing engineer.
It's time to declare it space junk and launch it, without crew, into the Sun.
I don't think it has the delta v to get to the sun.
Betcha there's talk of sending a Crew Dragon to bring them home so that "NASA AND BOEING can have more time to learn about and study these issues" ... And save face from the loss of human life.
Boeing. Bring fear to higher levels
More time like 2 years? More?
Vehicle should have never been sent up...
there was surely tremendous political and institutional pressure to launch, even after they found the initial helium leak
W video
At least the wheels haven't fallen off yet.
Also the door
The all new Boeing Leakliner
considering this is another Boeing Quality Control Issue and it shouldn't have been launched with humans on-board, they are nervously praying they can get them back alive... this CONTRACT SHOULD BE RECINDED...
NASA seems to have problems with O rings.
These leaks are suspected to be at flanges.
NASA seems to have problems with anything made of more than 1 part.
Boeing made this one...
NASA has problems with anything made of more than 1 part.
@@chuck7299 NASA nevers builds anything. They did not build the solid rocket boosters that took down the challenger. They have their hand in the design and sign off on all the work contractors do for them.
@@chuck7299I'm sure boeing didn't make it either, and instead bought some shit off the shelf....he'll their airplanes can't even stay together 😒. They have no business flying astronauts.
Boeing needs to send up someone from Spirit Aerosystems on a Soyuz to spray flat green anticorrosive paint on all of the helium and hypergolic propellant/oxidizer valves in order to make it look as if they had actually been serviced. Then they need to dispatch a Crew Dragon to safely return Suni and Butch safely back to earth (in Dragon's case, a splashdown off the coast of Florida). From there, Boeing needs to charter an Airbus A-320 to safely transport Suni back to Needham, Mass., and Butch back to Houston, TX. Then a Boeing spokesman or spokeswoman needs to take a deep breath of 21% O2 and 79% He and announce in their best Mickey or Minnie Mouse voice that the first Starship astronauts are safely back from the ISS.
Stayliner strikes again!
Sonny&Butch may need a mailbox up there and extra movies
Boing has become a joke. Engineering has been precarious for too many years and belongs to the era of Jerry Lewis. The exception is that Jerry Lewis was funny and Boing is killing people without consequences. Please rescue astronauts with SpaceX Dragon!👁
Scrubliner in trouble again, mo kidding , I hope the crew will make it back unharmed, but this is ridiculous how Nasa allowed this piece of sugar honey iced tea of aircraft to even go to the ISS and put everyone up there in trouble
Shame NASA & Boeing
So, is a Dragon already being prepped?
NASA's ego won't allow them to admit the Starliner is a piece of junk and ask Elon for help.
I hope that Butch and Suni land safely.
Also space suits are not universal. But with these problems, maybe they should be
@@wkjeeping9053 Space suits aren't needed for re-entry.
@@ghost307 bro NASA literally funded dragon and made Starliner sit on the sidelines for 4 years while dragon ate its contracts. NASA wants redundancy and competition, which everyone should want. I'm sure they're as disappointed as the rest of us that starliner turned out to be a piece of junk
@@ghost307 they're required for undocking which is required for reentry. Ever since 3 cosmonauts were exposed to vacuum during an undocking procedure, all docking, undocking and launch procedures require space suits
WHY does the videos from outside space looks like from the 1970's ????!
This launch should have been aborted when the helium leaks were first detected on the launch pad. Sending crew back in this vessel is just asking for trouble. If after leaving the space station they discover they cannot perform the necessary de-orbit burn, it is likely they will not be able to redock with the space station. This could be a death sentence. In my view this situation dictates that our two astronauts hitch a ride home on the Falcon. If Boeing and NASA are embarrassed over this, they should be. If limited resources on the station require they leave early, so be it.
If I was on the crew assigned to return on that thing, I'd be telling Boeing I'll wait until SpaceX sends up their craft to catch a ride home. I'd trust Boeing's development and management staff exactly zero.
I just don't understand how such a small capsule could have so many problems like these? Its been a long time and this should have been ironed out by now,. Is this really how low Boeing has fallen now?