I think you did a really great job transitioning from one idea to the next, it stayed interesting throughout the whole demo. It really showcased this synths capabilities.
I own one and while it doesn't fit the rest of my setup, the PWM it makes is so incredible that I am unable to sell it. And I soldered it myself so it adds to its perceived value. ;] Anyway, I wanted to tell you about two things: You mentioned reversed controls, so let's start with that. The way CS-80 was designed was to be usable by organ players, who are used to drawbars. And as name suggests: they increase value while drawn. This is the lowest section, which on original was in "players" section. The upper section was for programming not playing, so the middle and top row behave different than bottom row. Another thing, and I even raised that point at GS some time, is that I think the CS-80 and - in consequence - Deckard's Dream have the best envelopes for filter cutoff. And that requires some explanation, because I found that most people don't understand them. When one uses envelope to control cutoff in most synths, it adds (or subtracts) the envelope shape to cutoff value. So in consequence, if one adds any sustain, the cutoff value is only at the beginning and end of the sound and not during sustain phase of envelopes. This is how ADSR works. The filter envelope in DD is bipolar (already big difference to ADSR envelopes!). And the cutoff slider sets sustain value. Which is brilliant to me, because it lets us set how body of sound will sound. This is why there is no sustain segment for envelope. To compensate for that and to achieve similar movement to ADSR envelope, there are two settings: IL (Initial Level), which sets from what level below cutoff (sustain) level envelope should start - this is why the value is negative - and AL (Attack Level), which sets how much above cutoff (sustain) level the envelope should reach in attach phase. The A, D and R are - nomen omen - analogous to ADSR envelopes. I claim that this approach, when properly understood, is better than ADSR envelope, because setting up body of sound at sustain level never changes with IL, AL, envelope levels, while ADSR has to be adjusted constantly, if one needs precision in catching harmonics of oscillators. But maybe that's just me. I know that when I asked, why people are not pushing ILALADR envelope, many were surprised that THIS is how that envelope works. So in case you didn't know exactly - now you know. :] I will also add, that if both - IL and AL - were bipolar (not -5 to 0 and 0 to 5 respectively), it would be possible to make multi level attack phase (or multilevel decay phase) with same parameters that ADSR envelope takes, which would be epic in my book. Cordially, Norman
Thanks for all the insight - admittedly, I did not pay much attention to the layout and what some of the controls confusingly meant, although I'm understanding it better now that you explain it. This was not mine, I was fixing it for a friend, but without the schematics, I wasn't able to understand what the engineers were suggesting, so I had to give up, put it back together, make this video, and send it back to my friend. Anyway, this is great information for someone who has one that is also confused :)
Very cool 😎! Thanks so much for your awesome music presentation 🎶. Super well played 🎹. I hope everything is going well in Your world 🌎. Mark Bensette Aux Bois 🇨🇦.
@@MIDERA(been a fan for a while and this does not disappoint / Blade Runner FTW) About your issue: if you suspect it doesn't function as it should, it's possible there was an error in the assembly. I believe it was sold as a kit the end customer must assemble and sometimes only the circuit boards, leaving the buyer to source their own parts with everything that can go wrong. Not a pro but some really knowledgeable people who have already assembled and done troubleshooting might be able to help you on the usual synthDIY forums and subs. Sometimes up-down issue can just mean the polarity of a part was mucked up during assembly. Just speculation. That being said, the sonic journey was still 🔥. Now we just need this in a downtempo IDM jam.😎
I very much enjoyed your exploration and playing - thanks for sharing :) Describing the synth, which is and will always be out of reach for me, words like organic, rich, interesting and alive spring to mind. Sounds lovely and pure :) Peace from the UK
CS80 had drawbars, like an old school pipe organ. To make them work you pull them towards you to “open the stops.” That’s why the down/up thing on DD. You’re making some beautiful sounds with it.
Many of the bottom row sliders (controls common to both voice tracks) do seem to work backwards. This is as it is on the original. The CS-80 design incorporated ideas from Yamaha's organ line, and these controls are best thought of as stops that you pull out toward you. The filter EGs also take some getting used to. Really beautiful sounds well curated - thank you.
They wanted to prevent people leaning on them accidentally changing the parameters. Apparently a lot of large mixing boards at the time did this too. I guess made more sense during the days of giant control schemes.
Sounds great! Definitely some sipping scotch from a square chibi glass while it rains vibe. Yah, those bottom row of sliders confused me at first too. Any thoughts about eventually getting the Rachel ring mod to add?
Ooh - I’ve never heard of this - although this unit isn’t mine, it’s a friends. I was working on it but couldn’t figure out more and had to send it back to him and now it’ll go to the company. I found the ring mod - thought it was an actual mod but it looks like it’s a separate euro rack module? Thanks!
@@MIDERA Exactly ... a euro rack module. I've been resisting euro but this might be my first. There's plenty of ring mod pedals out there but I've heard this one has a specific character to the CS-80. They also released a euro rack module of one voice of deckards dream called the 'Deckards Voice' far cheaper (around $700?) than the larger Dream.
Well, just remember first that this one had an issue - and so that kind of stains my experience with it. But it was very easy to use and has a crazy 'hi-fi' sound that I've only heard in a Radikal Technologies Accelerator. Nowhere else. Very strange synth. I didn't care for the odd behavior of the sliders, but we can blame the CS80 for that. I have no way to verify if this sounds like a CS80. But I can tell you that the PWM was amazing. I really enjoyed the sound of it. Other than that - all I can say is that this video represents my experience with it. If you like how it sounds here, be sure to have a good reverb on hand! It did have a lot under the hood. What do you currently have? Maybe that will help guide you, but sometimes, if you want something, you want it, not sure how anyone can be swayed except through experience at that point. If you're buying direct from the company, I hear they'll have some stuff on sale soon, so maybe that will help get you into gear on it?
I think you did a really great job transitioning from one idea to the next, it stayed interesting throughout the whole demo. It really showcased this synths capabilities.
I own one and while it doesn't fit the rest of my setup, the PWM it makes is so incredible that I am unable to sell it. And I soldered it myself so it adds to its perceived value. ;]
Anyway, I wanted to tell you about two things:
You mentioned reversed controls, so let's start with that. The way CS-80 was designed was to be usable by organ players, who are used to drawbars. And as name suggests: they increase value while drawn. This is the lowest section, which on original was in "players" section. The upper section was for programming not playing, so the middle and top row behave different than bottom row.
Another thing, and I even raised that point at GS some time, is that I think the CS-80 and - in consequence - Deckard's Dream have the best envelopes for filter cutoff. And that requires some explanation, because I found that most people don't understand them. When one uses envelope to control cutoff in most synths, it adds (or subtracts) the envelope shape to cutoff value. So in consequence, if one adds any sustain, the cutoff value is only at the beginning and end of the sound and not during sustain phase of envelopes. This is how ADSR works.
The filter envelope in DD is bipolar (already big difference to ADSR envelopes!). And the cutoff slider sets sustain value. Which is brilliant to me, because it lets us set how body of sound will sound. This is why there is no sustain segment for envelope. To compensate for that and to achieve similar movement to ADSR envelope, there are two settings: IL (Initial Level), which sets from what level below cutoff (sustain) level envelope should start - this is why the value is negative - and AL (Attack Level), which sets how much above cutoff (sustain) level the envelope should reach in attach phase. The A, D and R are - nomen omen - analogous to ADSR envelopes.
I claim that this approach, when properly understood, is better than ADSR envelope, because setting up body of sound at sustain level never changes with IL, AL, envelope levels, while ADSR has to be adjusted constantly, if one needs precision in catching harmonics of oscillators. But maybe that's just me. I know that when I asked, why people are not pushing ILALADR envelope, many were surprised that THIS is how that envelope works. So in case you didn't know exactly - now you know. :]
I will also add, that if both - IL and AL - were bipolar (not -5 to 0 and 0 to 5 respectively), it would be possible to make multi level attack phase (or multilevel decay phase) with same parameters that ADSR envelope takes, which would be epic in my book.
Cordially,
Norman
Thanks for all the insight - admittedly, I did not pay much attention to the layout and what some of the controls confusingly meant, although I'm understanding it better now that you explain it. This was not mine, I was fixing it for a friend, but without the schematics, I wasn't able to understand what the engineers were suggesting, so I had to give up, put it back together, make this video, and send it back to my friend.
Anyway, this is great information for someone who has one that is also confused :)
It's not only Deckard's dream, but my dream too, thanks for sharing!
Ha, nice. Yeah, it's a nice synth. It's not mine, so no need to be jealous. I no longer have it in my studio!
Very cool 😎! Thanks so much for your awesome music presentation 🎶. Super well played 🎹. I hope everything is going well in Your world 🌎. Mark Bensette Aux Bois 🇨🇦.
Thanks Mark! Appreciate it :)
wow incredible sound, one of the great synth names as well
Yeah, definitely! It’s a great sounding synth. Wish it was working properly!
@@MIDERA(been a fan for a while and this does not disappoint / Blade Runner FTW) About your issue: if you suspect it doesn't function as it should, it's possible there was an error in the assembly. I believe it was sold as a kit the end customer must assemble and sometimes only the circuit boards, leaving the buyer to source their own parts with everything that can go wrong. Not a pro but some really knowledgeable people who have already assembled and done troubleshooting might be able to help you on the usual synthDIY forums and subs. Sometimes up-down issue can just mean the polarity of a part was mucked up during assembly. Just speculation. That being said, the sonic journey was still 🔥. Now we just need this in a downtempo IDM jam.😎
I should come here more often again
You are more than welcome to :)
Sounds amazing. Pretty nice looking machine too.
Yeah for sure. It is very nice looking. I’m not personally a huge fan of rack gear, but it’s alright.
Sounds fantastic!
Definitely! Surprisingly, sounds a lot like an Accelerator. I’m going to have to make a video of that one next
I very much enjoyed your exploration and playing - thanks for sharing :) Describing the synth, which is and will always be out of reach for me, words like organic, rich, interesting and alive spring to mind. Sounds lovely and pure :) Peace from the UK
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for stopping by!
CS80 had drawbars, like an old school pipe organ. To make them work you pull them towards you to “open the stops.” That’s why the down/up thing on DD.
You’re making some beautiful sounds with it.
Thanks - and yeah, that makes sense about the 'draw bars'. thanks!
Many of the bottom row sliders (controls common to both voice tracks) do seem to work backwards. This is as it is on the original. The CS-80 design incorporated ideas from Yamaha's organ line, and these controls are best thought of as stops that you pull out toward you. The filter EGs also take some getting used to. Really beautiful sounds well curated - thank you.
Yeah that makes sense, although it makes more sense on a keyboard synth where the controls sit differently compared to a rack synth.
Thanks!
They wanted to prevent people leaning on them accidentally changing the parameters. Apparently a lot of large mixing boards at the time did this too. I guess made more sense during the days of giant control schemes.
Sounds great! Definitely some sipping scotch from a square chibi glass while it rains vibe. Yah, those bottom row of sliders confused me at first too. Any thoughts about eventually getting the Rachel ring mod to add?
Ooh - I’ve never heard of this - although this unit isn’t mine, it’s a friends. I was working on it but couldn’t figure out more and had to send it back to him and now it’ll go to the company. I found the ring mod - thought it was an actual mod but it looks like it’s a separate euro rack module?
Thanks!
@@MIDERA Exactly ... a euro rack module. I've been resisting euro but this might be my first. There's plenty of ring mod pedals out there but I've heard this one has a specific character to the CS-80. They also released a euro rack module of one voice of deckards dream called the 'Deckards Voice' far cheaper (around $700?) than the larger Dream.
Why is the Deckard's Dream a 4200.00 Synth and the solar 42f is less than half the price? is the Deckard over priced? Genuinely curious.
Is this the MKI? Thanks for posting
Hey - yeah, it is! This one had some issues, so I never spent enough time with it (it’s not mine). Sounded very good though.
Im really going to get one. Midera give me a nudge. Whats your favourite thing about it?
Well, just remember first that this one had an issue - and so that kind of stains my experience with it. But it was very easy to use and has a crazy 'hi-fi' sound that I've only heard in a Radikal Technologies Accelerator. Nowhere else. Very strange synth. I didn't care for the odd behavior of the sliders, but we can blame the CS80 for that. I have no way to verify if this sounds like a CS80. But I can tell you that the PWM was amazing. I really enjoyed the sound of it. Other than that - all I can say is that this video represents my experience with it. If you like how it sounds here, be sure to have a good reverb on hand! It did have a lot under the hood.
What do you currently have? Maybe that will help guide you, but sometimes, if you want something, you want it, not sure how anyone can be swayed except through experience at that point.
If you're buying direct from the company, I hear they'll have some stuff on sale soon, so maybe that will help get you into gear on it?
@@MIDERA Thanks. I have all Plugins of the CS80. That is the latest Arturia and others. But i want hardware. And there's nothing else:(
Peut être mieux qu'un CS 80 sans la carcasse et les problèmes
For sure! Although this unit has some issues -_-