Could you add a graph where it shows the kWh charged instead of the % When the EV6 hit 80% it had charged 49kWh, the EV9 55kWh, the EQS 58kWh, and the G9 whopping 69kWh in the same time span.
Curious that the EV9 topped out at approximately 630 volt, not exactly the 800 volt architecture of the EV6. It's like the way the 38 kWh classic Ioniq was hobbled at 360V versus its 28 kWh predecessor's 400. In both cases you've got a bigger battery, but at crappier speeds. :(
The 800V systems are impressive. My Ioniq6 has in winter times approx 190 kW till 60%. „Special experts“ are often of the opinion that the 800V „hype“ not justified as the 400V system could charge in the same time as this is more a matter of the battery management. but they do not recognise that till today no manufacturer of 400V systems is able to provide cars with such a high charging curve within the BMS
Classic Ioniq still yet remains shockingly impressive compared to current korean successors, it could get 70kW (2.5C) at 80%. With 100kWh battery it would be equivalent to 250kW flat until 80%, which still no current EV can match an air cooled one from 2017.
It has a lot of cobalt in there, thats why and they hide the real degradation which is pointless imo. I like my ioniq but i wont buy another hyundai/kia.
@@IstvanDarabos not so much hide but it's just inaccurate. Doesn't mean that the battery is bad though, and that's as someone who actually did get a dud. Bjorn knows that even though 1st gen eSoul had notoriously bad batteries, the SOH still had the same problem of not actually reflecting capacity (only cell voltage deviation).
I'm not sure if you can do a direct comparison of the charging speeds for these vehicles if the battery sizes are so different. When the G9 reached 100%, it has delivered 91.6 kWh. At the same time the EV9 was at 92%, having delivered 89.4 kWh (nearly the same as G9). The EQS was at only 92% SoC, but it had delivered 96.6 kWh (more than both). The EV6 was way behind at 72.8 kWh (even though it was up to 98.5% SoC). So, I don't know if you can view this as a fair charging comparison of the 4 vehicles.
The kWh charged only tells us how expensive it is to charge the car. The C-rating (in this case expressed as % per time) tells us how long we have to wait, and the average 10-80% charging speed in km/h tells us how fast we can travel. Max charging power, which is what is most often advertised and most car reviews talk about, doesn't tell us anything.
You mean g9 literally destroyed every car on this list? When you fast charge you don't want to camp to 90-100%, you should leave the charger at 80% at most...
EV9 battery voltage 170V lower than EV6 and EV9 takes about 35 amps more at 01:10. EV9 battery voltage only 628V when SOC100%. Kia website says that in 76.1kWh version battery voltage is 632V and for 99.8 kWh battery the voltage is 552V. Which is strange if 100 kWh battery in this video has about 630 volts (?).
@@AliusScitmeliusnominal voltage is lower than peak voltage. Normally nominal voltage of Li-ion is 3.7-3.8 per cell while peak voltage is 4.1-4.2 at fully charged
@@Steinegal In the video EV6 voltage when SOC 100% is 798V and EV9 only 628V. Assume that the battery chemistry is the same, then the cell voltage should be the (almost) same when SOH 100%. There should be more cells in series in EV6 battery. EV6 then can be more 800 volts architecture but this EV9 is only 630 volts architecture (lower capasity EV9 battry can have even lower voltage).
Now the interesting part is how the charging behaves in these cars which battery voltage is 600-800 volts when charging with 400 volt charger. Is there someking voltage booster in batterypack or is there some electronics which creates more losses (mostly more heat) compared to charge with charger which can handle battery pack nominal voltage 600-800 volts. The electronics can be so smart that it devides the battery pack smaller partitions which can be charged directly with 400 when detecting that lower charging voltage.
@ The myth is that 800v is superior to 400v. On top of that 800v cars seems to have way slower charge speeds on 400v chargers compared to 400v cars, for example Tesla chargers. IONITY is premium priced for no reason.
@@The_Observer72 First of all the EV9 uses a different battery structure and therefore has dufferent nominal volt rating for the battery. At best it is a 650V architecture. The other E-GMP EVs from Hyundai/KIA have higher volts. Second, it is not a myth, it is basic physics and math. The E-GMP platform does nut fully utilize the strength of 800V architectures, because they simply do not offer big enough batteries for their vehicles. 800V is always necessary for batteries of 81kWh total capacity and above and for high C chare rates. Let me explain why: an 80kWh battery which charges with 400V architecture at a 3C charge rate needs 240kW from the charger. But what do you do with a 120kWh battery at 3C? It would already need 360kW to maintain the same charging speed as the 80kWh battery. Or how about you want to lower the time it takes to charge, you need a higher C charge rate then. If we take the 80kWh battery but charge it with 4C rate instead of 3C, then you would need 80x4=320kW charging power. Using 400V is no longer an option to provide those powers. A 400V 500A charger can deliver 200kW but charging stations can go briefly beyond those limits if necessary. If we assume a 5% boost mode on those numbers, then a conventional charging station can provide a maximum of 220kW at 420V and 525A. That's all. Tesla superchargers deliver up to 250kW because they use even higher amp ratings. Manufacturers do not push far beyond the 600A though because the increase in resistance and charging losses is higher that way compared to further increasing the voltage instead. That is why we see 800V and 900V already or soon 1000V architectures and chargers will be available. 200-220kW (conventional) or 250-255kW(Superchargers) is the max power output you can get with a 400V-ish architecture and chargers. That is not much. The 77,5kWh battery of the E-GMP platfrom charges with 3.1C, so 240kW, and that is just above the power threshold of conventional 400V chargers which deliver 220kW max. Hyundai/KIA had to go for 800V instead of 400V in order to achieve those charging speeds. However the difference is quite small. With a bigger battery the difference would be much bigger. Take the Porsche Taycan facelift for comparison which charges its 105kWh battery with a 3.2C rate, so 335kW. Both batteries, the one from the Taycan and the one from Hyundai/KIAh ave very similar charging capabilites which is shown in the C charge rating. But the bigger battery needs way more power (and also has more range). This is where 800V truly shines. - So if you want to charge big batteries fast 800V is always needed. - f you want to charge smaller batteries extra fast, like 4C or even 5C instead of 3C, then 800V is always needed. - If you want to charge big batteries extra fast, then you might even need 900 or 1000V 400V will only ne used in cheap EVs or in compact cars. In all other cases 400V would be totally outdated and should not be used anymore.
@@Aztasu And in less than a million words: No, 400 volt will not disappear. As long as IONITY is doubled price compared to Tesla, and 800 volt cars struggle to charge at 400 volt there will be no take over.
Imagine Björn doing sports commentary or reading weather forecasts one day like this… 😂👍
Really looking forward to the EV9 videos
Could you add a graph where it shows the kWh charged instead of the %
When the EV6 hit 80% it had charged 49kWh, the EV9 55kWh, the EQS 58kWh, and the G9 whopping 69kWh in the same time span.
yeah but it is hard to compare because the EV9 will spend its 55kWh quicker than the 49kWh of the EV6 (and so on)
@@Martinedo_ good idea. Add a graph where kWh charged will be divided by consumption and change % to km/miles
Bjørn pushing horseracejournalism to the limit 😂
Curious that the EV9 topped out at approximately 630 volt, not exactly the 800 volt architecture of the EV6. It's like the way the 38 kWh classic Ioniq was hobbled at 360V versus its 28 kWh predecessor's 400. In both cases you've got a bigger battery, but at crappier speeds. :(
Always interesting to see your charging challenges.
Comparing percentage is rather useless. The actual range they can add per time is what really matters.
Can't wait new Taycan participating. Holy maccaroni!!!!
The 800V systems are impressive. My Ioniq6 has in winter times approx 190 kW till 60%. „Special experts“ are often of the opinion that the 800V „hype“ not justified as the 400V system could charge in the same time as this is more a matter of the battery management. but they do not recognise that till today no manufacturer of 400V systems is able to provide cars with such a high charging curve within the BMS
Classic Ioniq still yet remains shockingly impressive compared to current korean successors, it could get 70kW (2.5C) at 80%. With 100kWh battery it would be equivalent to 250kW flat until 80%, which still no current EV can match an air cooled one from 2017.
It has a lot of cobalt in there, thats why and they hide the real degradation which is pointless imo. I like my ioniq but i wont buy another hyundai/kia.
@@IstvanDarabos not so much hide but it's just inaccurate. Doesn't mean that the battery is bad though, and that's as someone who actually did get a dud. Bjorn knows that even though 1st gen eSoul had notoriously bad batteries, the SOH still had the same problem of not actually reflecting capacity (only cell voltage deviation).
Are you doing the EV9 1000km challenge as well?
Yes
6:26 Buggy BMS for the win!
I am impatiently waiting for 1000 km challenge! 🙂
Incredibly charging so fast!!!!
I'm not sure if you can do a direct comparison of the charging speeds for these vehicles if the battery sizes are so different. When the G9 reached 100%, it has delivered 91.6 kWh. At the same time the EV9 was at 92%, having delivered 89.4 kWh (nearly the same as G9). The EQS was at only 92% SoC, but it had delivered 96.6 kWh (more than both). The EV6 was way behind at 72.8 kWh (even though it was up to 98.5% SoC). So, I don't know if you can view this as a fair charging comparison of the 4 vehicles.
The kWh charged only tells us how expensive it is to charge the car. The C-rating (in this case expressed as % per time) tells us how long we have to wait, and the average 10-80% charging speed in km/h tells us how fast we can travel. Max charging power, which is what is most often advertised and most car reviews talk about, doesn't tell us anything.
Not bad but the new Porsche is so much better. I wonder if you get a chance to test it when it comes out.
From other test I've seen, EV9 seem to have learned and cool the place better.
the real winner is eqs that has taken 97 kwh because the g9 did only 91.6 kwh at 100% as you can see in the ionity screen (sorry for bad english)
You mean g9 literally destroyed every car on this list? When you fast charge you don't want to camp to 90-100%, you should leave the charger at 80% at most...
G9 battery voltage looking ok at 300kw, no killing.
Ev6 (800V) battery has more voltage than the Ev9 (630V). that explains the higher charge.
Voltage is irrelevant for C rating.
With lower voltage EV9 takes more amps and there might be a limit for max amps which car can handle.
Yeah but why that limit be lower than EV6? Not impossible that they can tweak the rate?
@@AliusScitmelius400V or 800V, the cells are charging at same amp...
Missing the lotus eletre in the video..
Nice and flat but I agree it should take higher power!
Very strange the EV9 voltage was so low during charging…
It's 800 V-ish :P
EV9 battery voltage 170V lower than EV6 and EV9 takes about 35 amps more at 01:10. EV9 battery voltage only 628V when SOC100%. Kia website says that in 76.1kWh version battery voltage is 632V and for 99.8 kWh battery the voltage is 552V. Which is strange if 100 kWh battery in this video has about 630 volts (?).
@@AliusScitmeliusnominal voltage is lower than peak voltage. Normally nominal voltage of Li-ion is 3.7-3.8 per cell while peak voltage is 4.1-4.2 at fully charged
@@Steinegal In the video EV6 voltage when SOC 100% is 798V and EV9 only 628V. Assume that the battery chemistry is the same, then the cell voltage should be the (almost) same when SOH 100%. There should be more cells in series in EV6 battery. EV6 then can be more 800 volts architecture but this EV9 is only 630 volts architecture (lower capasity EV9 battry can have even lower voltage).
Now the interesting part is how the charging behaves in these cars which battery voltage is 600-800 volts when charging with 400 volt charger. Is there someking voltage booster in batterypack or is there some electronics which creates more losses (mostly more heat) compared to charge with charger which can handle battery pack nominal voltage 600-800 volts. The electronics can be so smart that it devides the battery pack smaller partitions which can be charged directly with 400 when detecting that lower charging voltage.
The G9 is very impressive, I wish other cars would charge like that as well
Why do you show EV6, but then the graph says Ioniq 6?
Because they use the same battery. I think I even mentioned this in the video.
What manufacturer makes the G9? Never heard of the “G9”. Some Chinese brand? BYD?
Bjorn mentioned “Chinese” for the G9.
Saw Xpeng written on the graph at the end of the video.
Xpeng
A chinese brand xpeng
New Porsche Taycan does it even better….
❤❤❤
EQS actually added the most kWh after 35 minutes. I guess the flatness pays off toward the end. If only it wasn't such a thirsty mother trucker.
Tesla cars are still way more efficient, but they are getting behind at charging speed...
KWhour per hour
EV nine? NEIN, NEIN, NEIN!
serral won.
The death of 800 volt + IONITY myth 🪦
Which myth is that for us that dont know?
@ The myth is that 800v is superior to 400v. On top of that 800v cars seems to have way slower charge speeds on 400v chargers compared to 400v cars, for example Tesla chargers. IONITY is premium priced for no reason.
@@The_Observer72 First of all the EV9 uses a different battery structure and therefore has dufferent nominal volt rating for the battery. At best it is a 650V architecture. The other E-GMP EVs from Hyundai/KIA have higher volts.
Second, it is not a myth, it is basic physics and math.
The E-GMP platform does nut fully utilize the strength of 800V architectures, because they simply do not offer big enough batteries for their vehicles. 800V is always necessary for batteries of 81kWh total capacity and above and for high C chare rates.
Let me explain why: an 80kWh battery which charges with 400V architecture at a 3C charge rate needs 240kW from the charger. But what do you do with a 120kWh battery at 3C? It would already need 360kW to maintain the same charging speed as the 80kWh battery. Or how about you want to lower the time it takes to charge, you need a higher C charge rate then. If we take the 80kWh battery but charge it with 4C rate instead of 3C, then you would need 80x4=320kW charging power. Using 400V is no longer an option to provide those powers.
A 400V 500A charger can deliver 200kW but charging stations can go briefly beyond those limits if necessary. If we assume a 5% boost mode on those numbers, then a conventional charging station can provide a maximum of 220kW at 420V and 525A. That's all.
Tesla superchargers deliver up to 250kW because they use even higher amp ratings. Manufacturers do not push far beyond the 600A though because the increase in resistance and charging losses is higher that way compared to further increasing the voltage instead. That is why we see 800V and 900V already or soon 1000V architectures and chargers will be available. 200-220kW (conventional) or 250-255kW(Superchargers) is the max power output you can get with a 400V-ish architecture and chargers. That is not much.
The 77,5kWh battery of the E-GMP platfrom charges with 3.1C, so 240kW, and that is just above the power threshold of conventional 400V chargers which deliver 220kW max. Hyundai/KIA had to go for 800V instead of 400V in order to achieve those charging speeds. However the difference is quite small. With a bigger battery the difference would be much bigger.
Take the Porsche Taycan facelift for comparison which charges its 105kWh battery with a 3.2C rate, so 335kW. Both batteries, the one from the Taycan and the one from Hyundai/KIAh ave very similar charging capabilites which is shown in the C charge rating. But the bigger battery needs way more power (and also has more range). This is where 800V truly shines.
- So if you want to charge big batteries fast 800V is always needed.
- f you want to charge smaller batteries extra fast, like 4C or even 5C instead of 3C, then 800V is always needed.
- If you want to charge big batteries extra fast, then you might even need 900 or 1000V
400V will only ne used in cheap EVs or in compact cars. In all other cases 400V would be totally outdated and should not be used anymore.
@@Aztasu And in less than a million words:
No, 400 volt will not disappear. As long as IONITY is doubled price compared to Tesla, and 800 volt cars struggle to charge at 400 volt there will be no take over.