Good job on null test. pple should undestand its a 1:1 emu, its not copied/ approximated version va, it is the same exact source code, so there is absolutely no way it should sound différent with same exact settings
I had a virus ti for 12 years. I used it in every track during that time. I used it via USB as a plugin. I cannot hear a difference between it and OsTirus and if there is one it is so minute as to be entirely imperceptible in a track. What can i say people just refuse to face the reality that software is just calculations running in a machine. And if you run the same calculations in the same way you will get the same results.
Most people in music talk motivated by their ego, but the reality is that in science there is no room for ego, it is what it is and that's it, but even then they won't understand it, great video
It's not about anybody's ego. It is about the deliberate degradation of education in schools, colleges and universities around the world. Soviet students easily developed and assembled rockets for fun. They wouldn't have had to explain such elementary things. It's not inventing and assembling a jet engine, after all. Such was free education for the masses in the USSR, for example.
It amazes me there are still people out there that completely ignore ADC/DAC paths are the only differences they care about. One could always make a NAM/Kemper Profiler/ToneX model to capture that 'roundness' and 'warmth' that they so crave lol
wait isn't the virus entirely digital for DSP? do people think that the warmth of a digital signal comes from how hot the CPU doing the DSP calculations is running? do people not know that the point of digital code for DSP is that it is reproducable without "errors"? there should be no question if it sounds the same if both signals are completely digital. Maybe the virus has some analog outputs which can sound warmer though.
The outcome of the test isn't surprising. Ostirus is not an instrument plugin. It is an exact replica of the hardware used on the TI (and various other hardware synths of that era). It is so exact, that any operating system of the original synths runs natively on the replica. And since it runs the original os natively, there is no difference between them. Why people claim otherwise? The wish is father of the thought, that's why.
It's almost like people don't understand what an emulator is. The virus is not an analog synth. The emulator runs on the exact firmware a physical virus does, it's a little moot to even need to compare them when they're literally the same thing...
That is just BS, the Ostirus sounds exactly the same as the Virus TI. I use them both all the time and there is no difference what so ever. I run my Virus with audio over USB so no soundcard or anything disturbing the signal. But great video as always Ollie (forgot to write that) :D Now this is debunked once and for all :)
Pros would say it's a moron test because it detects morons. Audiophiles would say that it's a test that only morons would believe, and that they should trust their ears. I'm with the first of these.
Everyone here saying 1:1 but your gain staging to output/daw and D/A converters will make differences. Outside of that it will sound exact, and possibly better if you have a good audio interface.
I'd love to try Ostirus but I had trouble getting hold of the additional software necessary to get it working. I'd love a guide on how to even use it to begin with. I'm sure it makes sense for people with a Virus but it's all pretty opaque.
The only additional software you need are the roms that you place in the same folder as the ostirus vst plugin. The ti, ti 2 or snow roms all work. If you don't own the hardware you could either "borrow" the roms from someone who does or find them online. They're not all that difficult to find
people who think they sound different dont have enough technical knowledge to understand how this emu works. if they lack that, they won't understand what is a null test either. they just don't understand technology. let them think what they want. good job, though.
Well, sometimes its great to use the knobs and UI on the hardware. Sure you can map most of the stuff to a controller, but the HW UI is pretty great. Also, I have had some issues automating stuff on the Ostirus, but that was in the earlier versions. It seems more stable now. Having that said, I run Windows so the TI is still working for me.
You should have done another null test, for example, using the saw from the Poly Grid, so we could hear and see what the residual sound from the null test would be like from a less accurate source.Just a though, nice video.
I use the Ostirus and 2 TI2. I can not be the same, because of the DA converter. I my case the Hardware goes into a analog mixer and with firewire into the computer for mastering and recording. My main issue, I play live and I need a hardware user interface. The Ostirus need a lot of hardware. I have a I7 12. Gen and a multi instrument with instruments is not working reliable. Its logic that both are the same, the firmware is the same. As I understood it correctly the audio output of the hardware is important for the sound. Like RME has used a burr-brown, which sounds warmer, like the rme interfaces. If you use a plug in and put a rme interface to your computer, it will sound warmer then other interfaces. Just put a rme interface to your computer. My ZED R16 Analog Mixer with firewire interface and a burr-brown chip sounds warmer with all plugins. The Ostirus is the same as the hardware, if the interface has the same quality.
Dude, as much as I am behind this sort of thing, you only tested a SINGLE waveform. A proper comparison would involve testing other (or all waveforms) as well as some presets and fx to really show a 1:1 comparison.
The idea behind using a SAW wave is to have a source that contains all harmonics. essentailly showing that there's no difference in the frequency respeonse of both synthesizers, so no extra warmth or what so ever, the code is identical.
Just read this: "2 independent multi-mode filters (HP, LP, BP, BS) and the Analog Filter which was modeled after the Moog MiniMoog™ cascade filter with 6-24 dB Slope and self-oscillation." Guess it's meant, that the digital filter emulates the original analog of the moog. Yeah it's from the original Kemper website.
Yes, they're fully digital and honestly I think they doesn't sound at all like a Minimoog filter but this doesn't make them bad filters, they're just something else from the Moog one
So,reading all the comments,i just got a Virus Ti2 after playing months with Ostirus,when connected with usb audio wich works good i found out that the Virus is a fraction cold against his analog outputs,i love that litle difference and decided to use those,i bougth the Virus just for that even the test is fact ,i'm in love with the hardware and to me it sounds different pleasing,good episode!!!
There's no doubt it'll sound different when you use the analog outputs, especially if you have one of those good pre-amps... I just wanted to prove a point from a calculations side of things... because I got many comments saying they sound different even with Audio Over USB... Personally I use mine with Audio Over USB and its fairly stable, far from perfect but does the job...
Tbh that's kinda missing the point. Of course an emulator running the actual Virus firmware will sound the same. What it wont give you is the tactile experience of the hardware. Also potential for playing live without a PC. If it was about the sound, people would just use VSTs for everything.
Also difference in what type of outputs you have. Make a nulltest between 25 year old soundblaster and the Burr Brown outputs of the virus. Inside the digital realm it absolutely sounds the same. 😃👍@@artakan303
Perfect test, proves the point. On the other hand nobody wants to be blocked while producing with the buggy VST, crashing, latency etc. I love my virus but facts are facts :)
"A real Virus TI sounds different after I send audio out of its DAC and into the ADC of my interface at a shitty recording level I didn't pay attention to on the way in." Fixed it for the naysayers. I will say on the really old VA synths from the 90s, sure, the DAC chips weren't as good back then. But even in the 90s we were up to 16-bit; I don't think even a Virus A or a Nord Lead were less than 16-bit. Now I kinda want to try and null test my Proteus 2000 using the SPDIF and into my interface (hint, it'll be different lol)
Of course it will sound different ^^ The goal with this test was to get the purist sound possible from the Virus, in this case that can be done with the Ti via Audio Over USB where no conversion is happening on the Virus side, its only doing the calculations and sending it to my computer as audio, same as OsTirus really but the latter is using my CPU instead of a motorola chip x) Speaking of DACs from the 90's if I remember correctly the Virus A had a 12bit DAC and is the only model with such convertor... On a side note: I miss my Virus A...
I wonder what would be the outcome if you have a complex preset. I mean you are comparing just a single tone. In my opinion, vst is pretty close to the real synth but it will NEVER be the same. Its'just a matter of power. While your pc is running Ostirus, in the background it deals with the DAW, with windows, and many more applications. Having that in mind, from a voltage perspective (IF THAT MAKES SENSE as you say 🙂) the power of the pc is not dedicated to the sound, even if you had the most expensive card. On the other side, the real hardware uses power direct to the chips and doesnt deal with other issues, thats why the sound is fatter and more in "your face". Owner of a Virus "c" and Roland JV1080 here. I always use the vsts versions for composing, they sound great, extremely light proseccing and very fast sound achieving. But when in my mind the track is done, I always switch to the hardware. Love your music and your tutorials Ollie !!
As long as the patch doesn't use randomisation, the FXs are clocked exactly the same way, no analogboost, no delay & reverb and using audio over USB, they should still perfectly null. The idea behind using a SAW wave was to have a source that contains all harmonics to show that basically there's no difference in the whole frequency range as it's basically just doing the calculation and sending it back to the PC as DATA and not as audio... I see were you're going with "the power of the pc is not dedicated to the sound", while that might be true in somehow, when it comes to voltage going to the chips, if the computer isn't getting the voltage it needs it would never be able operate, the chips are made to be used with certain voltage and they have certain tolerence, if the voltage is below that, it would just never run As when it comes to the Virus C of course it'll sound different from the Virus Ti and from the emulator and that is for several reasons. - A Virus Ti runs on a different sample rate than the Virus C (if I'm not mistaking it's lower on the Ti even when the chips inside are faster). - A Virus C doesn't have audio over usb which I was using in this test, essentially audio over usb is sending DATA to the PC and the only conversion is happening in my sound card, while on your Virus C, the Virus is converting the data to audio, then your audio interface is converting it back to Data to get processed by your DAW then back to audio again to hear it... all that will definitly alter the sound and if you have great pre-amps, you'll 100% get some extra warmth
Graet work. I see it with the Sim racing. The only thing a professional sim-racer needs in addition is the muscle training because of the G Force and the heat in a race car. Everything is absolutely the same. Only the rubber and grip thing isnt 100 % same, for now. Has todo with the problem the physicist still hasnt solved the real problem. They dont understand everything that happend while running down a wheel in a race. So why shouldnt the same thing be able to do for a music instrument. They have from every wire and every chip the physical data they need to make the calculations. Iam sure there already huge databases you can buy certain infos from to build your VST based on original chipset configurations.
Good job on null test. pple should undestand its a 1:1 emu, its not copied/ approximated version va, it is the same exact source code, so there is absolutely no way it should sound différent with same exact settings
The only difference would be in the converters to go d/a but even then it’s corksniffer levels of difference here…
@@notsure1135 yeah think so too..
And here we go with the 'the OG sounds warmer and rounder', 'the OG got that digital warmth you know'
It's just so annoying man. Lol. "New (software) thing bad"
I had a virus ti for 12 years. I used it in every track during that time. I used it via USB as a plugin. I cannot hear a difference between it and OsTirus and if there is one it is so minute as to be entirely imperceptible in a track. What can i say people just refuse to face the reality that software is just calculations running in a machine. And if you run the same calculations in the same way you will get the same results.
Most people in music talk motivated by their ego, but the reality is that in science there is no room for ego, it is what it is and that's it, but even then they won't understand it, great video
It's not about anybody's ego. It is about the deliberate degradation of education in schools, colleges and universities around the world. Soviet students easily developed and assembled rockets for fun. They wouldn't have had to explain such elementary things. It's not inventing and assembling a jet engine, after all. Such was free education for the masses in the USSR, for example.
So glad I never bought a virus and waited 7 years for this plugin lol
I did my own comparison with my TI2 and I preferred OsTirus...because it's move convenient
I had a virus ti. This plugin sounds just like it. Its so sick.
It amazes me there are still people out there that completely ignore ADC/DAC paths are the only differences they care about. One could always make a NAM/Kemper Profiler/ToneX model to capture that 'roundness' and 'warmth' that they so crave lol
Great man!!
wait isn't the virus entirely digital for DSP? do people think that the warmth of a digital signal comes from how hot the CPU doing the DSP calculations is running? do people not know that the point of digital code for DSP is that it is reproducable without "errors"? there should be no question if it sounds the same if both signals are completely digital. Maybe the virus has some analog outputs which can sound warmer though.
awesome comparison. but as you said, some trolls still will say that the virus sounds different :-D
The outcome of the test isn't surprising. Ostirus is not an instrument plugin. It is an exact replica of the hardware used on the TI (and various other hardware synths of that era). It is so exact, that any operating system of the original synths runs natively on the replica. And since it runs the original os natively, there is no difference between them. Why people claim otherwise? The wish is father of the thought, that's why.
Makes me think of audiophiles who claim that FLAC is inferior to uncompressed WAV (and perhaps they believe they can hear the difference).
idiots will stay idiots, most of the one that said bullshit have no clue about what you are doing ! Thank you I am happy to follow someone smart !
Brilliant - thanks!
No way, I also did this test but had a totally different result: the real TI was clearly warmer!!
Ok ok, it had resided on a radiator before the test.
It's almost like people don't understand what an emulator is. The virus is not an analog synth. The emulator runs on the exact firmware a physical virus does, it's a little moot to even need to compare them when they're literally the same thing...
How would it even be different if it's a perfect emulation of the original dsp
AD/DA output stage of your audio card.
nice 1!!!!
I am looking forward regarding US "bridged DSP" plans.
😎👍🏻
How is it possible that Behringer has not yet teased with their Birus t2?
I think they did tease some years ago about a Virus A clone but I think cloning the code would get them in a lot of trouble...
@@olliepsy Imagine if Behringer had the audacity to just cram a Raspberry Pi into a MIDI controller enclosure that runs OSTIrus XD
@Emily_M81 why wouldn't I be surprise if they do so? x)
That is just BS, the Ostirus sounds exactly the same as the Virus TI. I use them both all the time and there is no difference what so ever.
I run my Virus with audio over USB so no soundcard or anything disturbing the signal.
But great video as always Ollie (forgot to write that) :D
Now this is debunked once and for all :)
I had to do it so every future comment saying they doesn't sound the same, you know what I'll show them heheh
Thank you for the support
A nulltest is called morron test in the pro audio world.. and that for good reasons.
Pros would say it's a moron test because it detects morons. Audiophiles would say that it's a test that only morons would believe, and that they should trust their ears. I'm with the first of these.
TRES INSTRUCTIF? MERCI
Everyone here saying 1:1 but your gain staging to output/daw and D/A converters will make differences. Outside of that it will sound exact, and possibly better if you have a good audio interface.
Who uses a virus not in usb mode though?
I'd love to try Ostirus but I had trouble getting hold of the additional software necessary to get it working. I'd love a guide on how to even use it to begin with. I'm sure it makes sense for people with a Virus but it's all pretty opaque.
The only additional software you need are the roms that you place in the same folder as the ostirus vst plugin. The ti, ti 2 or snow roms all work. If you don't own the hardware you could either "borrow" the roms from someone who does or find them online. They're not all that difficult to find
@shivbhalla9780 yeah that was the issue, getting hold of the roms welp
@@fionaskittle Do a little digging, like I said they're not difficult to find
@@fionaskittle The rom files are contained in the virus ti windows software installer. You can put that into google.
people who think they sound different dont have enough technical knowledge to understand how this emu works. if they lack that, they won't understand what is a null test either. they just don't understand technology. let them think what they want. good job, though.
whos using the Virus TI anyway nowadays ? since Ostirus is out - the hardware is laying around in my apartment
yup, my virus ti is now an expensive midi controller
I would love the hardware!
When I move & have space I will for sure get the hardware just because!
Well, sometimes its great to use the knobs and UI on the hardware. Sure you can map most of the stuff to a controller, but the HW UI is pretty great.
Also, I have had some issues automating stuff on the Ostirus, but that was in the earlier versions. It seems more stable now.
Having that said, I run Windows so the TI is still working for me.
@@simex909 it's also a handy DAC lol
You should have done another null test, for example, using the saw from the Poly Grid, so we could hear and see what the residual sound from the null test would be like from a less accurate source.Just a though, nice video.
I use the Ostirus and 2 TI2. I can not be the same, because of the DA converter. I my case the Hardware goes into a analog mixer and with firewire into the computer for mastering and recording. My main issue, I play live and I need a hardware user interface. The Ostirus need a lot of hardware. I have a I7 12. Gen and a multi instrument with instruments is not working reliable. Its logic that both are the same, the firmware is the same. As I understood it correctly the audio output of the hardware is important for the sound. Like RME has used a burr-brown, which sounds warmer, like the rme interfaces. If you use a plug in and put a rme interface to your computer, it will sound warmer then other interfaces. Just put a rme interface to your computer. My ZED R16 Analog Mixer with firewire interface and a burr-brown chip sounds warmer with all plugins. The Ostirus is the same as the hardware, if the interface has the same quality.
They're using Focusrite Scarletts... forget 'em.
Dude, as much as I am behind this sort of thing, you only tested a SINGLE waveform. A proper comparison would involve testing other (or all waveforms) as well as some presets and fx to really show a 1:1 comparison.
math is math. They're emulating a DSP chip, not a Virus itself. If the TI OS runs on it, then it will sound the same as a hardware Virus
The idea behind using a SAW wave is to have a source that contains all harmonics. essentailly showing that there's no difference in the frequency respeonse of both synthesizers, so no extra warmth or what so ever, the code is identical.
Hadn't had the Virus TI (Hardware) analog filters?
No Virus ever had analog filters
Nope, the only thing analog on any of the Virus series were the outputs!
Just read this: "2 independent multi-mode filters (HP, LP, BP, BS) and the Analog Filter which was modeled after the Moog MiniMoog™ cascade filter with 6-24 dB Slope and self-oscillation."
Guess it's meant, that the digital filter emulates the original analog of the moog.
Yeah it's from the original Kemper website.
@@AntiPattern123 yeah it’s a digital filter that’s modelled on an analog one!
Yes, they're fully digital and honestly I think they doesn't sound at all like a Minimoog filter but this doesn't make them bad filters, they're just something else from the Moog one
video starts at 6:20
Thanks,
Geeze
So,reading all the comments,i just got a Virus Ti2 after playing months with Ostirus,when connected with usb audio wich works good i found out that the Virus is a fraction cold against his analog outputs,i love that litle difference and decided to use those,i bougth the Virus just for that even the test is fact ,i'm in love with the hardware and to me it sounds different pleasing,good episode!!!
There's no doubt it'll sound different when you use the analog outputs, especially if you have one of those good pre-amps... I just wanted to prove a point from a calculations side of things... because I got many comments saying they sound different even with Audio Over USB...
Personally I use mine with Audio Over USB and its fairly stable, far from perfect but does the job...
@@olliepsy i understand.👍🏾💯
Bunch of sound "engineers" thibking they know better,they probably all just a bit deaf si thats why they sound different lol
Tbh that's kinda missing the point. Of course an emulator running the actual Virus firmware will sound the same. What it wont give you is the tactile experience of the hardware. Also potential for playing live without a PC. If it was about the sound, people would just use VSTs for everything.
yeah, but the only difference is the tactile thing, so stop arguing about sound quality !
Also difference in what type of outputs you have. Make a nulltest between 25 year old soundblaster and the Burr Brown outputs of the virus. Inside the digital realm it absolutely sounds the same. 😃👍@@artakan303
the video is specifically about the sound between OSTIrus and the Virus TI.
*mic drop*
Perfect test, proves the point. On the other hand nobody wants to be blocked while producing with the buggy VST, crashing, latency etc. I love my virus but facts are facts :)
no crashing or bugs here so far
@@croay your Virus TI never crashed?
@@BlisargonDemogorgon No, the VST plugin which you mentioned and is the topic of this whole video.
@@croay i thought on Virus TI VST that crashes
@BlisargonDemogorgon oh I didnt know it had an official VST instrument. My bad
First view
Good to see you at the weekend btw, great set!
Was good to see you too dude, can't wait for out next adventure ^^
🔥
the virus ti is just terrible USING THE VST AND USB i got a ti2
dude
"A real Virus TI sounds different after I send audio out of its DAC and into the ADC of my interface at a shitty recording level I didn't pay attention to on the way in."
Fixed it for the naysayers. I will say on the really old VA synths from the 90s, sure, the DAC chips weren't as good back then. But even in the 90s we were up to 16-bit; I don't think even a Virus A or a Nord Lead were less than 16-bit.
Now I kinda want to try and null test my Proteus 2000 using the SPDIF and into my interface (hint, it'll be different lol)
Of course it will sound different ^^
The goal with this test was to get the purist sound possible from the Virus, in this case that can be done with the Ti via Audio Over USB where no conversion is happening on the Virus side, its only doing the calculations and sending it to my computer as audio, same as OsTirus really but the latter is using my CPU instead of a motorola chip x)
Speaking of DACs from the 90's if I remember correctly the Virus A had a 12bit DAC and is the only model with such convertor...
On a side note: I miss my Virus A...
ACCESS NOT GONNA LIKE THIS BRO
Eh it's fine. They abandoned synths a while ago
a lot of access staff is in the discord and are chill dudes, you still have to own a virus synth to use this software.
@@Cheezus ah I didn't know that. I assumed people were just passing around the firmware.bin file
@@CraftStation1047 you can get it straight from the tap, so-to-speak. it's really easy to get.
I guess that would be true if they did care about their product :(
I wonder what would be the outcome if you have a complex preset. I mean you are comparing just a single tone. In my opinion, vst is pretty close to the real synth but it will NEVER be the same. Its'just a matter of power. While your pc is running Ostirus, in the background it deals with the DAW, with windows, and many more applications. Having that in mind, from a voltage perspective (IF THAT MAKES SENSE as you say 🙂) the power of the pc is not dedicated to the sound, even if you had the most expensive card. On the other side, the real hardware uses power direct to the chips and doesnt deal with other issues, thats why the sound is fatter and more in "your face". Owner of a Virus "c" and Roland JV1080 here. I always use the vsts versions for composing, they sound great, extremely light proseccing and very fast sound achieving. But when in my mind the track is done, I always switch to the hardware. Love your music and your tutorials Ollie !!
As long as the patch doesn't use randomisation, the FXs are clocked exactly the same way, no analogboost, no delay & reverb and using audio over USB, they should still perfectly null. The idea behind using a SAW wave was to have a source that contains all harmonics to show that basically there's no difference in the whole frequency range as it's basically just doing the calculation and sending it back to the PC as DATA and not as audio...
I see were you're going with "the power of the pc is not dedicated to the sound", while that might be true in somehow, when it comes to voltage going to the chips, if the computer isn't getting the voltage it needs it would never be able operate, the chips are made to be used with certain voltage and they have certain tolerence, if the voltage is below that, it would just never run
As when it comes to the Virus C of course it'll sound different from the Virus Ti and from the emulator and that is for several reasons.
- A Virus Ti runs on a different sample rate than the Virus C (if I'm not mistaking it's lower on the Ti even when the chips inside are faster).
- A Virus C doesn't have audio over usb which I was using in this test, essentially audio over usb is sending DATA to the PC and the only conversion is happening in my sound card, while on your Virus C, the Virus is converting the data to audio, then your audio interface is converting it back to Data to get processed by your DAW then back to audio again to hear it... all that will definitly alter the sound and if you have great pre-amps, you'll 100% get some extra warmth
Graet work. I see it with the Sim racing. The only thing a professional sim-racer needs in addition is the muscle training because of the G Force and the heat in a race car. Everything is absolutely the same. Only the rubber and grip thing isnt 100 % same, for now. Has todo with the problem the physicist still hasnt solved the real problem. They dont understand everything that happend while running down a wheel in a race. So why shouldnt the same thing be able to do for a music instrument. They have from every wire and every chip the physical data they need to make the calculations. Iam sure there already huge databases you can buy certain infos from to build your VST based on original chipset configurations.