HIGH SPEED BRAKING PROBLEM, i have a bike with non floating disc and single channel ABS, When i travel at around 75, to 70 mph and brake even moderately then for a couple of seconds my brake lever is like vibrating, and after a second it settles and full braking feel and power is felt, please help if anyone had this problem, by the way its a bybre caliper.
There is skill in hard breaking, maybe mention how to progressively apply pressure to allow maximum tyre contact prior to full load. Upgrading master cylinder and lines transformed the brakes on my bike, love the feel and control. New bike has ABS, ouch.
This is one of the best breakdowns on gradual brake upgrades and rider self improvement I've seen. Simple, informative, and straight to the point. Thank you Ari and RevZilla!
@@AriH211 Hi Ari, first of all Thank you very much for all these videos. In the last 2-3 years, you have played a pivotal role (along with 3 other youtubers) in bringing a quantum leap in my riding experience. About 7-8 years ago I was a reckless and unsafe rider, after which I brought my speed down significantly to reduce risk but in the last 2-3 years I have been able to ride a lot faster without compromising on safety. And you have played a very significant part in it and I cant thank you enough. I'm also pretty sure I'm one among many whose riding experience you have changed for the better. Thank you.
This is gonna sound weird, but I MASSIVELY upgraded my brakes by getting gloves that fit my hand better. I can actually cover the brakes while I ride and I can feel what I'm doing better than when I had overly bulky gloves.
Sometimes the best upgrade is knowing your bike and practicing skills. Just like buying a faster bike when you don't even know to use the one you have at its full potential.
@@farmoboy83 I wasn't a newbie when a very good mate told me to take his (rather old) VF 750 around the block. It was fantastic, but as I attempted to both overtake someone and approach a right angle intersection I needed to take at the same time I quickly discovered that while the bike could, I couldn't. He could have. My daily rider was a 400 after more than a few on years on 250s. The Sabre was such a step up in comparison. I learned a lesson very quickly that day.
The last part about making sure we are at our best is so critical! I remember listening to a rider in full racing garb, on a gorgeous bike going on about the huge amounts he had spent to lighten it as much as possible, while ignoring the extra 30-40lbs he was carrying above his belt. It makes a difference.
Loved this! It felt very grounded and to be honest, it was refreshing that a video from a site that lives to sell things is explaining that certain types of parts practically are not needed for most people.
Flew to CA and borrowed my friend's beat-up bike for the next few weeks, and the front lever felt really squishy. Did a bleed yesterday but was still felt that the brakes were weak and got it from "unrideable" to "much better, but still not perfect". I took it out in the twisties and had to switch to 3 finger braking because the lever kept on hitting my finger when I pulled it in. Gonna do a second round of bleeding today and ordered a set of sintered pads because there isn't a lot of meat left on these guys. This video couldn't have come out at a better time!
As always, a well thought out video. It amazes me how many people don't know changing brake fluid is a maintenance item. Even though it's a "closed" system, moisture still gets in there from heat cycling and it's worse if you're in a humid area. I change my brake fluid about every 2 years, about when it starts noticeably changing color. That's the same schedule I use for my 4 wheeled vehicles. It's amazing how much better a hydraulic system works when it's got good fluid in it!
As new rider (6 months), that last point on 'upgrading the rider' is just so important. I love riding any time but I also love getting into the cap parks and practicing the safety and manoeuvring skills provided on the many brilliant RUclips channels available. I've learnt so much about myself as well the bike. Highly highly recommend investing time in yourself.
Hey Revzilla, just want touch on the brake pad upgrade. I was actually told by Galfer that unless you are running a track bike, they do not recommend their sintered brake pads for the Rear. This is do to having a really strong bite that can lock up the rear on a strong press, which is an all too common situation that can happen during commuting and also off-roading. They recommend their semi-metallic pad for the rear instead. Which gives a more progressive stop yet still better than OEM.
This can change bike to bike, but I can see what they are getting at. Each person and bike is different and each rear tire is different. Someone running high end super sticky semi slicks can probably handle the sintered or other ceramic pad compound you find in racing pads. To the average joe shmoe and his worn down 5+ year old Street only tire and No ABS, this could be a deadly upgrade, yes.
Back when I had my FZ8 I upgraded the pads with carbone lorraine XBK pads, put on spiegler braided lines and ran Motul RBF600 fluid. My God what a night and day difference!! The factory pads were the biggest limiting factor though. They honestly felt like they were made of wood. The lines definitely firmed up the lever feel though.
@6:03 I would hazard to say this piece of advice applies to all aspects of knowing/getting the most out of your motorcycle. A certain austrian rider and his skills and understanding of his "unimpressive" old cb500 comes to mind, while keeping up with a lot more advanced and expensive bikes, on hard alpine twisties.
I got a 2017 R3 as my first motorcycle. At the end of 2019, I decided I needed something fun. After months of riding, I realized my front master cylinder had a small hairline crack where the lever is installed. I bought a new OEM Yamaha master cylinder, Vortex levers along with EBC sintered pads. Not only did the new master cylinder and levers feel better, but the sintered pads made a HUGE difference. I haven't done any track days but I do have some nice roads nearby I explore with some casual speed. What a difference it made switching to better pads. Great video as always. I always get excited at a new Revzilla video. Seriously, you guys do amazing work. I hope I can meet some of you someday and chat about our 2 wheeled obsessions:D
Forgot one important thing. I would stick this after ss lines to remove that potential source of line sponge. If the lever is spongy no matter how much you bleed it, AND it is really hard to push the piston(s) back, you might need to rebuild the caliper. Its pretty easy to do and relatively inexpensive too and also makes a night and day difference if your symptoms match up.
The next level is going from street to track day. Your brakes weakness is quickly exposed under repeat brake applications vs street. This is very good street brake advise. Expect a track day will have you wishing for more upgrades. I have a bike with ABS. I will be upgrading my brakes to brembo radial master cylinder, getting rid of ABS completely, steel lines x2 equal length to each caliper, race day pads, and oversized rotors bringing me up to 330mm vs stock 310. Going all brembo. Will report back once I do this for next year.
The last point is the most important. I used to work in the bike industry and was lucky enough to ride alongside pros who could ride old clapped out stock standard OEM POS bikes way faster than 99% of people could on the latest and greatest with all the upgrades. It's very humbling.
Yes replacing brake lines on my buddy’s MT09 took forever and required practically complete disassembly of the bike but the feel and responsiveness is night and day better than my MT09 brakes now
I wish Ari and Zach would make about a thousand more video's. Myself and probably everyone else out there would watch them at least a couple times. They offer a wealth of info wether it be basic or advanced and unlike just about everyone else on RUclips, They aren't annoying. Thanks!
I bought used Ducati and the brakes were horrible!! After I refreshed the system and lubed the pivots, It was totally blessed😇 These really are essential things that most people look over.
I've had a pretty similar situation on my 2011 ER6F (exact same brake setup as this versys) I started with a caliper rebuild (+fluid and lubing up pivots) this immediately gave it such a massive improvement that now I immediately rebuild the brakes on any bike I own as it's so cheap to do and it's a DRAMATIC increase in feel and performance. (2 front calipers on those tokico calipers cost around 25-30 bucks). Then I replaced those over the fender rubber lines with 2 straight full length braided cables. These gave a noticeable improvement but not as much as rebuilding the caliper, it was more consistency especially near the end of the travel. Then when time came to replace the disc I replaced them with EBC XC Contour Floating Discs. Very very nice discs at a relatively affordable price (300 bucks for the set up front). I've gone through a few iterations of pads before I settled on the SBS 705SP pads (highest performance "street" compound) and they are a match made in heaven with the EBC discs. They provide amazing feel, immediate response, and no warm up period whilst also not fading after heavy use. At this point I wanna point out that I ran the HH pads from EBC before this, BUT and this is VERY important to consider: They take waaaaayy too long to heat up. On the street the first few brakings are akin to praying for the bike to stop. Even when riding for a while, if you haven't been in a corner or haven't been pushing the brakes they are mediocre at best. The HH pads only get up to performance if you really go from corner to corner with heavy braking, when they are hot, they are amazing, but 90% of the time they are way worse than the SBS pads. The SBS pads don't have as high peak performance but they retain that high performance over a much much wider range. If the SBS starts at 70% braking performance peaks at 90% and falls off to 80% then the HH by comparison starts at 20% peaks at 100% and falls off to 90%, but it spends the majority of it's street time below 50%. The braking performance I got out of those 2 pot tokicos with a few upgrades is better than the old-new R1 brakes (2015-2019 models). And I know those were relatively controversial brakes from the get go, but if Yamaha supplies those brakes on a 15k+ 1000cc supersport, you can only imagine how good my setup was on a 650 twin. Done the same on the rear brakes and they are about on par with the best rear brakes I've ever used (S1000XR, KTM 1290 SA)
@@jamiemangold Extremely simple, pop the pistons out, give them a good clean on the inside with break cleaner, replace main seal and dust seal grease both with rubber grease. Clean pistons with some 00 steel wool and/or a brass brush. Grease them up (rubber grease all the way down the side then some moly disulphide anti seize above the halfway point or so, my personal preference, you can skip on moly disulphide). Then there are some non essential things you also get in the kit that are worth replacing like the bleed nipple and it's cap, and the rubber boots that cover the slide pins, for the slide pins put a blob on the end and a generous serving on the pins themselves (after cleaning them with brush and steel wool ofc) and then slide it in as far as it goes and work it in a little with some in an out. Reconnect calliper to brake lines, make sure bleed nipple is closed and try to pour some brake fluid in the calliper, then push the pistons in carefully (should plop right in with some wiggling). then push both pistons in as far as they go, then repeat for the other side, once both callipers are back together, give them a wipe down from any brake fluid, pads in, back on the rotors. Then you can start the bleeding process. Having done a bunch now I can do this in about 30 mins flat. 4 pot (opposing piston) brakes are a bit trickier to take apart and put back but the process is the same, I recommend putting 2 pistons on one side in then filling the callipers with brake fluid before putting the last 2 in. This part is essential unless you want to spend 2 hours trying to bleed the bloody system. And voila, fresh, responsive, great feedback brakes for under 30 bucks.
@@AntaresSQ01 Wow! Very thorough response. Thank you very much. I am getting ready to rebuild my forks for the first time since I have developed a leaky right seal. I figured now is the time to upgrade the springs as well. Maybe I will try this too since I will have the front wheel off of the bike.
@@AntaresSQ01 under 30 bucks seems like an exaggeration, I don’t think I could even get enough brake ( not break) fluid for under 30, let alone the other consumables
@@kayhoww sucks to live somewhere where its so expensive, tbh i had fluid lying around but the seal kit from all balls racing (decent aftermarket supplier) cost 24 for the pair of calipers + 8 for the pair of pad retaining pins, though those aren't always necessary, 500ml or castrol performance dot 4 is like 7 bucks too and that's enough to fill up the brake system from empty 2x
Thanks Ari.... I have been led to understand that when changing brake fluid you should never use a previously opened bottle (talking about storage of many months to a year or two). Something about condensation contaminating the fluid I believe. But this leads to a whole lot of unused brake fluid being disposed of at every fluid change. I would be grateful for your take on this. Thank you much!
Yup, that's the recommendation, though I'll admit to using fluid that's been previously opened. The issue is that break fluid is hygroscopic, which means it will absorb moisture out of the air. But if it's in container with a tightly sealed lid, then it'll be fine. Master cylinders don't even seal perfectly, after all.
I'm a bit late to this re-visited party. I always loved MC-Garage, watch it just because I enjoy it sometimes. And it's fantastic that this became a thing on Revzilla as well. You're doing a great job Ari! I fixed brake fluid, oil change, coolant change, replaced my chain and my rear tire with your helpful tips. Owning a MT10SP since this spring this video makes me feel like you're keeping tabs on me, I might have to upgrade my brakes on that thing. :D
For those with an older GSXR 750 that came with plain rubber lines. I’ve rode a number of bikes and my GSXR felt horrible on my first day leaving the dealer. Upgraded the lines that week. Made all the difference I needed. So, if you just have rubber lines, replace them first and see the difference.
Absolutely perfect advice! I've rebuilt my calipers, installed braided lines and updated my pads. I need to grease the brake lever pivot and replace the caliper pad pins (annoyingly not part of the rebuild kit) Also need to practice hard braking - scary but essential!! Love the look of that RCS master but it's soooo pricey!
Pratice pratice pratice Well said Based on many years instruction in parachuting, marksmanship, flying and trucking Most people will spend big dollars on "Stuff" but little time to fully utilize the full potential of the equipment they already have
Great video - I'd add to this to pull apart your calipers and check the seals. I did this recently, and cleaned out a lot of sludge from behind the pistons. I polished up the pistons etc, and they feel a lot better.
small note for more experienced wrenchers, splitting the calipers to inspect, clean and refurb the calipers and pistons does wonders, sticky pistons will rob you of overall brake power and make the pads wear less even, also, brake fluid comes in many different ratings, dot 4, dot 5, dot 5.1, but personnaly i prefer motul rbf660 since it has an insane dry boiling point compared to dot4, after switching i never had brake fade again, and i'm running steel braided lines, brembo rcs19 and brembo RC pads (yes those are the carbon ones) on a 2005 R1, sure i'm not squeezing every ounce of potential out of the brakes but it stops on a friggin dime.
A little known brake accessory that I have used on several bikes over the years is a hydraulic pulse damper on the front brake. Next to ABS it is the best improvement you can make to reduce "pulsing" (assuming it is not due to warped brake rotor, etc.) when braking heavily over a washboard surface. When braking on uneven surfaces the loading and unloading of the front suspension causes a pressure pulse in the hydraulic system that tends to lock the brakes when the loading is reduced and the front suspension travels down. The damper is a small cartridge that attaches to the brake line at the front brake actuator with a banjo fitting. The one I installed on my Kawasaki Versys 650 was made by TCB Brake Systems, LLC. Years ago I had a similar product installed on a Yamaha XS500. I now have a Kawasaki Concours 14 that has ABS and TC so it would not be of benefit.
Another great upgrade on bikes of this type ie SV650 et al, is find a compatible s/h complete front end like an USD GSXR 600/750. Better forks and waaay better brakes. Any bike i ever buy for myself, first upgrade is stainless brake lines throughout. Great vlog as per.
The owners manual of a 1965 Mercedes I had recommended lightly sanding the rotors with medium-fine emory cloth using a small circular motion when installing new pads, my how owners manuals have changed since then.
Nice... I'm a big fan of empty parking lot practice; which might sound nerdy/boring, but I think it's fun: Slow speed handling skills, braking drills with abs both on and off, etc.✌️
Thanks for the truth’s over myths. Skills of the rider make a bike. The bike does not make the rider. The bike offers the tools but the rider must practice to make the most of those tools. Great video.
I've always wondered if, for average hamfisted riders, we might be better off with rubber lines than stainless, as it's a bit easier to lock the front wheel and dump the bike in an emergency situation with stainless lines. Likewise for sintered vs semi-metallic pads.
If you have dual disk brakes I think youre on to something. A single disk with rubber lines can be pretty underpowered unless it's in a sub~320 lbs bike.
@@ridenm7748 good point, the system itself needs to have enough bite for this to make a difference. I put stainless lines on a 90's Honda Nighthawk 750 and I don't think I ever got any closer to washing out the front tire with a single disc stopping a 460 pound bike. Honestly it's probably only a tiny fraction of cases where this would make a measurable difference either way.
@@PMitchell106 yeah for a set up like that upgrade the brakes as much as you want and it'll probably be fine. I had a Daytona 675 and that bike was very touchy and easy to lock up. Had steel lines from the factory and wasnt very beginner/panic friendly. I'm going to upgrade my dr650, it's 360 lbs with a 290mm single disk. Even on dirt roads it feels weak and is hard to stop with two fingers lol. Most sportbikes could be left alone though imo.
Thanks Ari ! You are always a shining star in the motorcycling world 👍😎 I upgraded the brake lines on my 2019 CB1000R with Japanese made stainless steel ones. Swapped OEM brake pads with Daytona (Japanese brand) cintered ones, also swapped the OEM fluid with Motul RBF600 ! Feels like a feather at the lever & it stops like a Cat before it hits the pond 😹
Some good info for dirt bikes as well. I have a 2005 crf450r that I have been doing sort of a “build” on, to update, refresh and upgrade. Most of my riding buddies have KTM 350s, but no way am I going to drop 11k on one when I have what I have siting in the garage. Saw a recent video showing Sextons race bike, sure enough, the dude uses a 2006 front master cylinder!!! Many people consider the 05-08 crf450r, as one of the best bikes back in day and still a decent bike today. Guess a factory Honda rider using a master cylinder from that era, proves that some of the parts are still decent. I through a relatively cheap oversized floating front rotor on it, and now it brakes sooooo good!!! Was planning on doing steel braided lines and pads as well, but I don’t think there is a need now. I just did the rotor since I was doing new wheels anyway, and it was a good time to do it.
Perfect video for what I was looking for. Got an HD XG750. Already got new brake pads installed, steel lines on the way. Wanted to find out if I should invest in a new master cylinder, and this video answered that question for me. Great work!
When the time comes to replace your rotors might just as well upgrade them... Brembo is hardly more expensive than most oem honda parts in my experience.
Another interesting point, for some reductant but for other very important! If you are a home mechanic like a majority of the bikers around, be sure that whenever you remove and reinstall your front wheel, you tie everything as stated in the owners manual with the right torques. Especially the pinch bolts and the caliber bolts! For me, on my KTM 790 Duke, it changed the entire feeling of my front brake ones I straightened the fork legs and tied everything down with my new torque wrench to the specified torque. Brakes feel like new whilst a week ago I was thinking of buying new calipers. It might be something you would like to try if you feel as if your brake feel is off. :)
When upgrading brakes I like using oem parts from better bikes. My old 03 636 had brake components from several other kawasakis. They were relatively cheap, bolted right on (have to do your research here), and most importantly, better than my factory stuff
i really admire your journalism skills...Keep it real bro,you impress me with your purity on your videos and subjects,when everybody else try to be good with companies to give them more bikes to present.If your journalism was music,it would be hard rock!
Totally agree with the work on skill but had to use what ever was available last weekend due to a crash in a race busting my master Cylinder and needed to get it replaced before next race, now have a radial “Braking” master and dang that thing feels sublime 👌
Steel brake lines make a huge difference , well worth it even with abs , might be the best upgrade period for a bike , especially sportbikes ,imo , but as always you videos are on point 👍
On My bike FZ1 it had a wooden or dead feel. I went braided lines, couldn't feel a difference. Radial calipers, still no difference. Radial MC you guessed it. Finally went EBC Sintered pads and whamo. Exactly the feel I wanted. On the practice thing, I had a mate thought he was a good car driver, said he didn't need ABS. I asked him when was the last time he practiced emergency stops. He just looked at me weird like no one does that.
Long-ish story: My (2016) FZ-09 is notorious for having bad brakes. So I purchased Spiegler brake lines and Double H Sintered pads from Revzilla. I bought my bike because I love nakeds/street-fighters, and because it didn't require me to remove a million things simply to get to the engine. I'm a big believer of experiential learning, so with that said, I watched Ari's old videos on bleeding brakes, as well as a few others specific to FZs. I did everything to a T, and yet, my secondary line from the left caliper to the right, was oddly large... it went up so high that it touched the top of my radiator. I called Spiegler and found out that I bought the "wrong" brake lines ("alternative routing" was on the Revzilla title but was so long that it was cut off from the product description thumbnail 😂🤦♂️ Instead of the standard single line going down to the left caliper, and then the second line coming off the left caliper and over the fender to the right caliper, my lines had the left and right lines separating off the master cylinder and going to their own respective calipers right away {never knew that was a thing, and I'm not sure if that makes any difference}). So I re-bled everything, changed the routing... which after that experience, I'd rather have the standard routing... and HOLY GOD I LOVE MY NEW BRAKES! After a day of riding, I can say with absolute certainty that my bike can stop in half the distance compared to the rubber lines. I've also been working on my brake pressure skills, too, and everything feels right with the universe, now. And now I can't imagine riding a bike without stainless lines and quality pads. It's absolutely amazing. More work to come on my FZ, but yeah, absolutely do the stainless steel lines and better pads.
This video popped up in my feed just today as I was thinking of upgrading the brakes on my cruiser. I want a sportier ride that handles better in the twisties, but I don't want to lose the inherent character of the bike. But seeing the advice given here, it may not be worth it.
I was shocked when I did mine, the cost of the stainless steel lines was barely more than the cost of OEM rubber ones, but have a better feel and better durability.
One ☝️ other cheap brake upgrade that has worked for all my bikes is a high performance brake fluid, in my case I use castrol reactive brake fluid. Yes 👍 you did say about replacing old fluid but not with high performance . I have also upgraded brakes with braided lines and calliper upgrades with adopter plates .
If your bars allow for it, scoot your brake levers inwards, if you're pulling on the end of the lever you'll have a lot more power than pulling it from the middle.
Also a very big improvement would be a correctly adjusted suspension. looks silly, but major improvement. both in brake feeling and just general bike feel
Not really. As long as the abs system doesn't get dry you can bleed them at home. Did this on my 2014 sportster. Not issues on her. Having said that if the abs does go dry you may need to take it to a shop the have the abs unit bleed. If you don't your abs may not work at all or even worse you have air trapped in the system.
Good informative video! I've been looking at sintered pads but have steered away not knowing how much faster they will eat up my rotors. My brakes perform OK for my riding, but a little extra bite would be good. Will I notice much difference in rotor wear?
Learn more from Ari on Common Tread: rvz.la/2S5yOFk
Missed the most important part! Shoddy tyres.
HIGH SPEED BRAKING PROBLEM, i have a bike with non floating disc and single channel ABS, When i travel at around 75, to 70 mph and brake even moderately then for a couple of seconds my brake lever is like vibrating, and after a second it settles and full braking feel and power is felt, please help if anyone had this problem, by the way its a bybre caliper.
is it possible to replace stardand clutch to slipper clutch?
There is skill in hard breaking, maybe mention how to progressively apply pressure to allow maximum tyre contact prior to full load. Upgrading master cylinder and lines transformed the brakes on my bike, love the feel and control. New bike has ABS, ouch.
Revzilla presents: Keeping It 100% with Ari Henning.
When keeping it real goes wrong
3:20 Ari clearly already running steel lines in his forearms.
Best comment on here
If Ari of all peoples tells me I should first and foremost practice my braking skills, then he's probably right.
This is one of the best breakdowns on gradual brake upgrades and rider self improvement I've seen. Simple, informative, and straight to the point. Thank you Ari and RevZilla!
You're welcome. I'm glad you liked it.
@@AriH211 Hi Ari, first of all Thank you very much for all these videos. In the last 2-3 years, you have played a pivotal role (along with 3 other youtubers) in bringing a quantum leap in my riding experience. About 7-8 years ago I was a reckless and unsafe rider, after which I brought my speed down significantly to reduce risk but in the last 2-3 years I have been able to ride a lot faster without compromising on safety. And you have played a very significant part in it and I cant thank you enough. I'm also pretty sure I'm one among many whose riding experience you have changed for the better. Thank you.
This is gonna sound weird, but I MASSIVELY upgraded my brakes by getting gloves that fit my hand better. I can actually cover the brakes while I ride and I can feel what I'm doing better than when I had overly bulky gloves.
That would only sound weird to anybody who's never ridden with gloves that didn't fit really well. Borrowed my dad's gloves once, it was scary.
Good advice.
Sometimes the best upgrade is knowing your bike and practicing skills. Just like buying a faster bike when you don't even know to use the one you have at its full potential.
@@farmoboy83 I wasn't a newbie when a very good mate told me to take his (rather old) VF 750 around the block. It was fantastic, but as I attempted to both overtake someone and approach a right angle intersection I needed to take at the same time I quickly discovered that while the bike could, I couldn't. He could have. My daily rider was a 400 after more than a few on years on 250s. The Sabre was such a step up in comparison.
I learned a lesson very quickly that day.
@@farmoboy83 ugh, cringe, ok Mr. Miagi
1:01
Zach: Battle Toad, slow down
Battle Toad: We don't do that here
The last part about making sure we are at our best is so critical! I remember listening to a rider in full racing garb, on a gorgeous bike going on about the huge amounts he had spent to lighten it as much as possible, while ignoring the extra 30-40lbs he was carrying above his belt. It makes a difference.
Exactly. Many spend thousands on reducing bike weight and if they lost 10kg would be easier, cheaper, healthier and more effective...
Ari’s content is why I feel comfortable working on my bike
Loved this! It felt very grounded and to be honest, it was refreshing that a video from a site that lives to sell things is explaining that certain types of parts practically are not needed for most people.
Great content.
Both on the technical, easy to understand for fools like me and also comes with proper advice. Thumbs up!
dmax : be your best friend, don't tell yourself you're a fool. And be polite. Have a good day.
Flew to CA and borrowed my friend's beat-up bike for the next few weeks, and the front lever felt really squishy. Did a bleed yesterday but was still felt that the brakes were weak and got it from "unrideable" to "much better, but still not perfect". I took it out in the twisties and had to switch to 3 finger braking because the lever kept on hitting my finger when I pulled it in. Gonna do a second round of bleeding today and ordered a set of sintered pads because there isn't a lot of meat left on these guys. This video couldn't have come out at a better time!
As always, a well thought out video. It amazes me how many people don't know changing brake fluid is a maintenance item. Even though it's a "closed" system, moisture still gets in there from heat cycling and it's worse if you're in a humid area. I change my brake fluid about every 2 years, about when it starts noticeably changing color. That's the same schedule I use for my 4 wheeled vehicles. It's amazing how much better a hydraulic system works when it's got good fluid in it!
As new rider (6 months), that last point on 'upgrading the rider' is just so important. I love riding any time but I also love getting into the cap parks and practicing the safety and manoeuvring skills provided on the many brilliant RUclips channels available. I've learnt so much about myself as well the bike. Highly highly recommend investing time in yourself.
Hey Revzilla, just want touch on the brake pad upgrade. I was actually told by Galfer that unless you are running a track bike, they do not recommend their sintered brake pads for the Rear. This is do to having a really strong bite that can lock up the rear on a strong press, which is an all too common situation that can happen during commuting and also off-roading.
They recommend their semi-metallic pad for the rear instead. Which gives a more progressive stop yet still better than OEM.
This can change bike to bike, but I can see what they are getting at. Each person and bike is different and each rear tire is different. Someone running high end super sticky semi slicks can probably handle the sintered or other ceramic pad compound you find in racing pads. To the average joe shmoe and his worn down 5+ year old Street only tire and No ABS, this could be a deadly upgrade, yes.
Thats one thing I see too many people overlook. Want to upgrade stopping power/feel/distance, but ignore the tires. Often in cars/trucks too.
Back when I had my FZ8 I upgraded the pads with carbone lorraine XBK pads, put on spiegler braided lines and ran Motul RBF600 fluid. My God what a night and day difference!! The factory pads were the biggest limiting factor though. They honestly felt like they were made of wood. The lines definitely firmed up the lever feel though.
@6:03 I would hazard to say this piece of advice applies to all aspects of knowing/getting the most out of your motorcycle. A certain austrian rider and his skills and understanding of his "unimpressive" old cb500 comes to mind, while keeping up with a lot more advanced and expensive bikes, on hard alpine twisties.
Austrian and a cb500, must be Schaaf :D
Definitely schaff
Dear dairy today I overtook a Ferrari in my Alfa Romeo 😇
I got a 2017 R3 as my first motorcycle. At the end of 2019, I decided I needed something fun. After months of riding, I realized my front master cylinder had a small hairline crack where the lever is installed. I bought a new OEM Yamaha master cylinder, Vortex levers along with EBC sintered pads. Not only did the new master cylinder and levers feel better, but the sintered pads made a HUGE difference. I haven't done any track days but I do have some nice roads nearby I explore with some casual speed. What a difference it made switching to better pads. Great video as always. I always get excited at a new Revzilla video. Seriously, you guys do amazing work. I hope I can meet some of you someday and chat about our 2 wheeled obsessions:D
Forgot one important thing. I would stick this after ss lines to remove that potential source of line sponge. If the lever is spongy no matter how much you bleed it, AND it is really hard to push the piston(s) back, you might need to rebuild the caliper. Its pretty easy to do and relatively inexpensive too and also makes a night and day difference if your symptoms match up.
Yes!! Another installment of The Shop Manual and covering a topic I really need for my ZG1000! 👍
The next level is going from street to track day. Your brakes weakness is quickly exposed under repeat brake applications vs street. This is very good street brake advise. Expect a track day will have you wishing for more upgrades.
I have a bike with ABS. I will be upgrading my brakes to brembo radial master cylinder, getting rid of ABS completely, steel lines x2 equal length to each caliper, race day pads, and oversized rotors bringing me up to 330mm vs stock 310. Going all brembo. Will report back once I do this for next year.
The last point is the most important. I used to work in the bike industry and was lucky enough to ride alongside pros who could ride old clapped out stock standard OEM POS bikes way faster than 99% of people could on the latest and greatest with all the upgrades. It's very humbling.
Three things that are also very important. Tire quality, tire pressure and shocks. All of them also affect braking!
Nice video 👍
Thsi video series should have millions of views
Yes replacing brake lines on my buddy’s MT09 took forever and required practically complete disassembly of the bike but the feel and responsiveness is night and day better than my MT09 brakes now
The last pointer was the most important! Great video!
I wish Ari and Zach would make about a thousand more video's. Myself and probably everyone else out there would watch them at least a couple times. They offer a wealth of info wether it be basic or advanced and unlike just about everyone else on RUclips, They aren't annoying. Thanks!
I bought used Ducati and the brakes were horrible!! After I refreshed the system and lubed the pivots, It was totally blessed😇 These really are essential things that most people look over.
I've had a pretty similar situation on my 2011 ER6F (exact same brake setup as this versys)
I started with a caliper rebuild (+fluid and lubing up pivots) this immediately gave it such a massive improvement that now I immediately rebuild the brakes on any bike I own as it's so cheap to do and it's a DRAMATIC increase in feel and performance. (2 front calipers on those tokico calipers cost around 25-30 bucks).
Then I replaced those over the fender rubber lines with 2 straight full length braided cables. These gave a noticeable improvement but not as much as rebuilding the caliper, it was more consistency especially near the end of the travel. Then when time came to replace the disc I replaced them with EBC XC Contour Floating Discs. Very very nice discs at a relatively affordable price (300 bucks for the set up front). I've gone through a few iterations of pads before I settled on the SBS 705SP pads (highest performance "street" compound) and they are a match made in heaven with the EBC discs. They provide amazing feel, immediate response, and no warm up period whilst also not fading after heavy use. At this point I wanna point out that I ran the HH pads from EBC before this, BUT and this is VERY important to consider: They take waaaaayy too long to heat up. On the street the first few brakings are akin to praying for the bike to stop. Even when riding for a while, if you haven't been in a corner or haven't been pushing the brakes they are mediocre at best. The HH pads only get up to performance if you really go from corner to corner with heavy braking, when they are hot, they are amazing, but 90% of the time they are way worse than the SBS pads. The SBS pads don't have as high peak performance but they retain that high performance over a much much wider range. If the SBS starts at 70% braking performance peaks at 90% and falls off to 80% then the HH by comparison starts at 20% peaks at 100% and falls off to 90%, but it spends the majority of it's street time below 50%. The braking performance I got out of those 2 pot tokicos with a few upgrades is better than the old-new R1 brakes (2015-2019 models). And I know those were relatively controversial brakes from the get go, but if Yamaha supplies those brakes on a 15k+ 1000cc supersport, you can only imagine how good my setup was on a 650 twin. Done the same on the rear brakes and they are about on par with the best rear brakes I've ever used (S1000XR, KTM 1290 SA)
What do you mean by a caliper rebuild? I'm curious as to what's all involved.
@@jamiemangold Extremely simple, pop the pistons out, give them a good clean on the inside with break cleaner, replace main seal and dust seal grease both with rubber grease. Clean pistons with some 00 steel wool and/or a brass brush. Grease them up (rubber grease all the way down the side then some moly disulphide anti seize above the halfway point or so, my personal preference, you can skip on moly disulphide). Then there are some non essential things you also get in the kit that are worth replacing like the bleed nipple and it's cap, and the rubber boots that cover the slide pins, for the slide pins put a blob on the end and a generous serving on the pins themselves (after cleaning them with brush and steel wool ofc) and then slide it in as far as it goes and work it in a little with some in an out. Reconnect calliper to brake lines, make sure bleed nipple is closed and try to pour some brake fluid in the calliper, then push the pistons in carefully (should plop right in with some wiggling). then push both pistons in as far as they go, then repeat for the other side, once both callipers are back together, give them a wipe down from any brake fluid, pads in, back on the rotors. Then you can start the bleeding process. Having done a bunch now I can do this in about 30 mins flat. 4 pot (opposing piston) brakes are a bit trickier to take apart and put back but the process is the same, I recommend putting 2 pistons on one side in then filling the callipers with brake fluid before putting the last 2 in. This part is essential unless you want to spend 2 hours trying to bleed the bloody system. And voila, fresh, responsive, great feedback brakes for under 30 bucks.
@@AntaresSQ01 Wow! Very thorough response. Thank you very much. I am getting ready to rebuild my forks for the first time since I have developed a leaky right seal. I figured now is the time to upgrade the springs as well. Maybe I will try this too since I will have the front wheel off of the bike.
@@AntaresSQ01 under 30 bucks seems like an exaggeration, I don’t think I could even get enough brake ( not break) fluid for under 30, let alone the other consumables
@@kayhoww sucks to live somewhere where its so expensive, tbh i had fluid lying around but the seal kit from all balls racing (decent aftermarket supplier) cost 24 for the pair of calipers + 8 for the pair of pad retaining pins, though those aren't always necessary, 500ml or castrol performance dot 4 is like 7 bucks too and that's enough to fill up the brake system from empty 2x
Ari, we all appreciate the straight honest answer you put out into motorcycleverse. Cheers happy riding my friend.
Thanks Ari....
I have been led to understand that when changing brake fluid you should never use a previously opened bottle (talking about storage of many months to a year or two). Something about condensation contaminating the fluid I believe.
But this leads to a whole lot of unused brake fluid being disposed of at every fluid change.
I would be grateful for your take on this.
Thank you much!
Yup, that's the recommendation, though I'll admit to using fluid that's been previously opened. The issue is that break fluid is hygroscopic, which means it will absorb moisture out of the air. But if it's in container with a tightly sealed lid, then it'll be fine. Master cylinders don't even seal perfectly, after all.
@@AriH211
Thank you Sir. Much appreciated indeed!
Ooooo, that last one is super true. I stay at the limit of my brakes and bin my bikes quite frequently. Nothing like knowing where the edge is at
I'm a bit late to this re-visited party. I always loved MC-Garage, watch it just because I enjoy it sometimes. And it's fantastic that this became a thing on Revzilla as well. You're doing a great job Ari! I fixed brake fluid, oil change, coolant change, replaced my chain and my rear tire with your helpful tips. Owning a MT10SP since this spring this video makes me feel like you're keeping tabs on me, I might have to upgrade my brakes on that thing. :D
That's great to hear that our vids have helped you work on your bike!
For those with an older GSXR 750 that came with plain rubber lines. I’ve rode a number of bikes and my GSXR felt horrible on my first day leaving the dealer. Upgraded the lines that week. Made all the difference I needed. So, if you just have rubber lines, replace them first and see the difference.
This video is gold. Especially the last minute or so in the parking lot. Thank you.
Ive been through all the perils off self maintaining my sportsbikes but the way you break it down is greatly appreciated for the next gen 💪
Absolutely perfect advice!
I've rebuilt my calipers, installed braided lines and updated my pads.
I need to grease the brake lever pivot and replace the caliper pad pins (annoyingly not part of the rebuild kit)
Also need to practice hard braking - scary but essential!!
Love the look of that RCS master but it's soooo pricey!
Pratice pratice pratice
Well said
Based on many years instruction in parachuting, marksmanship, flying and trucking
Most people will spend big dollars on "Stuff" but little time to fully utilize the full potential of the equipment they already have
Well done and informative, glad you stressed the cost/benefit ratio and the recommendations at each level. Thanks subscribed!
Right on, glad you appreciated the vid.
100% on the practice. I thought it was hard to do stoppies, but after, only acouple braking sessions a week for a few weeks, it was easy to learn.
Some simple honest advice in this video,,makes a change from someone promoting a product,,massive thanks👍
Love the last tip, got to work on that. Only ever felt the abs twice.
Great video - I'd add to this to pull apart your calipers and check the seals. I did this recently, and cleaned out a lot of sludge from behind the pistons. I polished up the pistons etc, and they feel a lot better.
small note for more experienced wrenchers, splitting the calipers to inspect, clean and refurb the calipers and pistons does wonders, sticky pistons will rob you of overall brake power and make the pads wear less even, also, brake fluid comes in many different ratings, dot 4, dot 5, dot 5.1, but personnaly i prefer motul rbf660 since it has an insane dry boiling point compared to dot4, after switching i never had brake fade again, and i'm running steel braided lines, brembo rcs19 and brembo RC pads (yes those are the carbon ones) on a 2005 R1, sure i'm not squeezing every ounce of potential out of the brakes but it stops on a friggin dime.
Good video Ari!
If Revzilla puts out a calendar, i expect the battle toad to be featured
Oh man, a calendar like that would be awesome.
Battletoad and Dave are a must !
A little known brake accessory that I have used on several bikes over the years is a hydraulic pulse damper on the front brake. Next to ABS it is the best improvement you can make to reduce "pulsing" (assuming it is not due to warped brake rotor, etc.) when braking heavily over a washboard surface. When braking on uneven surfaces the loading and unloading of the front suspension causes a pressure pulse in the hydraulic system that tends to lock the brakes when the loading is reduced and the front suspension travels down. The damper is a small cartridge that attaches to the brake line at the front brake actuator with a banjo fitting. The one I installed on my Kawasaki Versys 650 was made by TCB Brake Systems, LLC. Years ago I had a similar product installed on a Yamaha XS500. I now have a Kawasaki Concours 14 that has ABS and TC so it would not be of benefit.
Seems that website and company has shut down? Only has like 20 subscribers on youtube... "tcbmarklipski"
Another great upgrade on bikes of this type ie SV650 et al, is find a compatible s/h complete front end like an USD GSXR 600/750. Better forks and waaay better brakes.
Any bike i ever buy for myself, first upgrade is stainless brake lines throughout.
Great vlog as per.
The owners manual of a 1965 Mercedes I had recommended lightly sanding the rotors with medium-fine emory cloth using a small circular motion when installing new pads, my how owners manuals have changed since then.
Very true, our bike's original brake has already plenty of stopping power, unless the part worn out then can consider replace with upgrade.
I put a Brembo RCS master cylinder on every bike that doesn’t already have radial master cylinders already. SO much better!
Great info, and yes the limiting factor is usually the loose nut behind the handle bars.
Nice... I'm a big fan of empty parking lot practice; which might sound nerdy/boring, but I think it's fun: Slow speed handling skills, braking drills with abs both on and off, etc.✌️
With Ari on Revzilla channel, this turned into my top 3 favourite motorcycle channel. So much great advise and information
Great. The last part is especially important. Try to find the "fault" with the user before trying to find one with the machine may net faster results.
Good content, Ari. A video on diagnosing common issues with brakes would be nice along with a brake rebuild guide.
Thanks for the truth’s over myths. Skills of the rider make a bike. The bike does not make the rider. The bike offers the tools but the rider must practice to make the most of those tools. Great video.
I've always wondered if, for average hamfisted riders, we might be better off with rubber lines than stainless, as it's a bit easier to lock the front wheel and dump the bike in an emergency situation with stainless lines. Likewise for sintered vs semi-metallic pads.
If you have dual disk brakes I think youre on to something. A single disk with rubber lines can be pretty underpowered unless it's in a sub~320 lbs bike.
@@ridenm7748 good point, the system itself needs to have enough bite for this to make a difference. I put stainless lines on a 90's Honda Nighthawk 750 and I don't think I ever got any closer to washing out the front tire with a single disc stopping a 460 pound bike. Honestly it's probably only a tiny fraction of cases where this would make a measurable difference either way.
@@PMitchell106 yeah for a set up like that upgrade the brakes as much as you want and it'll probably be fine. I had a Daytona 675 and that bike was very touchy and easy to lock up. Had steel lines from the factory and wasnt very beginner/panic friendly. I'm going to upgrade my dr650, it's 360 lbs with a 290mm single disk. Even on dirt roads it feels weak and is hard to stop with two fingers lol. Most sportbikes could be left alone though imo.
Thanks for this video. I don't know how to ride yet,but knowing this information helps before I get on my first bike.
Thanks Ari ! You are always a shining star in the motorcycling world 👍😎 I upgraded the brake lines on my 2019 CB1000R with Japanese made stainless steel ones. Swapped OEM brake pads with Daytona (Japanese brand) cintered ones, also swapped the OEM fluid with Motul RBF600 ! Feels like a feather at the lever & it stops like a Cat before it hits the pond 😹
Revzilla, please do more videos with Ari!
Some good info for dirt bikes as well. I have a 2005 crf450r that I have been doing sort of a “build” on, to update, refresh and upgrade. Most of my riding buddies have KTM 350s, but no way am I going to drop 11k on one when I have what I have siting in the garage. Saw a recent video showing Sextons race bike, sure enough, the dude uses a 2006 front master cylinder!!! Many people consider the 05-08 crf450r, as one of the best bikes back in day and still a decent bike today. Guess a factory Honda rider using a master cylinder from that era, proves that some of the parts are still decent. I through a relatively cheap oversized floating front rotor on it, and now it brakes sooooo good!!! Was planning on doing steel braided lines and pads as well, but I don’t think there is a need now. I just did the rotor since I was doing new wheels anyway, and it was a good time to do it.
Happy to see your wing is moving freely again! 👍
Practice..indeed
Perfect video for what I was looking for. Got an HD XG750. Already got new brake pads installed, steel lines on the way. Wanted to find out if I should invest in a new master cylinder, and this video answered that question for me. Great work!
Ari u are a gem man . i know this stuff but ur explanations just make things better. Gonna do what you said freshen up those braking skills
Thanks for this well balanced view! 😊
When the time comes to replace your rotors might just as well upgrade them... Brembo is hardly more expensive than most oem honda parts in my experience.
Another interesting point, for some reductant but for other very important!
If you are a home mechanic like a majority of the bikers around, be sure that whenever you remove and reinstall your front wheel, you tie everything as stated in the owners manual with the right torques. Especially the pinch bolts and the caliber bolts!
For me, on my KTM 790 Duke, it changed the entire feeling of my front brake ones I straightened the fork legs and tied everything down with my new torque wrench to the specified torque. Brakes feel like new whilst a week ago I was thinking of buying new calipers.
It might be something you would like to try if you feel as if your brake feel is off. :)
When upgrading brakes I like using oem parts from better bikes. My old 03 636 had brake components from several other kawasakis. They were relatively cheap, bolted right on (have to do your research here), and most importantly, better than my factory stuff
i really admire your journalism skills...Keep it real bro,you impress me with your purity on your videos and subjects,when everybody else try to be good with companies to give them more bikes to present.If your journalism was music,it would be hard rock!
Thanks man, we try to keep it real on TSM.
Totally agree with the work on skill but had to use what ever was available last weekend due to a crash in a race busting my master Cylinder and needed to get it replaced before next race, now have a radial “Braking” master and dang that thing feels sublime 👌
Steel brake lines make a huge difference , well worth it even with abs , might be the best upgrade period for a bike , especially sportbikes ,imo , but as always you videos are on point 👍
I have done everything for a street rider as per this video, thank you.
Happy any time Battletoad features in these videos! Sound advice thank you - might swap the brake line on my moped for safety.
Always appreciate TSM Ari! I've learned more from you and Zach than basically anyone.
On My bike FZ1 it had a wooden or dead feel. I went braided lines, couldn't feel a difference. Radial calipers, still no difference. Radial MC you guessed it. Finally went EBC Sintered pads and whamo. Exactly the feel I wanted. On the practice thing, I had a mate thought he was a good car driver, said he didn't need ABS. I asked him when was the last time he practiced emergency stops. He just looked at me weird like no one does that.
Been spending my afternoon reading through my Kawasaki GTR 1000 shop manual! Love to have this show as well to help explain things so clearly 👍
Prof. Ari "Swole" Henning at it again !!!
Great advice as you’ll runout of experience before the brakes are taxed ! Keep the great advise coming 🏍
Sage advice from Sensei Ari as always.
Long-ish story: My (2016) FZ-09 is notorious for having bad brakes. So I purchased Spiegler brake lines and Double H Sintered pads from Revzilla. I bought my bike because I love nakeds/street-fighters, and because it didn't require me to remove a million things simply to get to the engine. I'm a big believer of experiential learning, so with that said, I watched Ari's old videos on bleeding brakes, as well as a few others specific to FZs. I did everything to a T, and yet, my secondary line from the left caliper to the right, was oddly large... it went up so high that it touched the top of my radiator. I called Spiegler and found out that I bought the "wrong" brake lines ("alternative routing" was on the Revzilla title but was so long that it was cut off from the product description thumbnail 😂🤦♂️ Instead of the standard single line going down to the left caliper, and then the second line coming off the left caliper and over the fender to the right caliper, my lines had the left and right lines separating off the master cylinder and going to their own respective calipers right away {never knew that was a thing, and I'm not sure if that makes any difference}). So I re-bled everything, changed the routing... which after that experience, I'd rather have the standard routing... and HOLY GOD I LOVE MY NEW BRAKES! After a day of riding, I can say with absolute certainty that my bike can stop in half the distance compared to the rubber lines. I've also been working on my brake pressure skills, too, and everything feels right with the universe, now.
And now I can't imagine riding a bike without stainless lines and quality pads. It's absolutely amazing. More work to come on my FZ, but yeah, absolutely do the stainless steel lines and better pads.
Nice job explaining MC brake system and service.
Love this man, not like that but as a teacher,
Speak for yourself
I do love him like that..
@@dedelabinouze5110 love the way he explain that stuff ,and goes to depth ,
hes one of the best motorcycle educators out there.
I love the battleturd.
Have a thing for booger green.
I'm pretty sure it's called the battletoad not turd hahahaha
Nice video! I'm still going out to upgrade the brakes on my tiny R15 xD
Awesome video, as always !
Such perfect advice, younger riders please listen.
Great video mate, very insightful. I'm going to practice in a car park.
This video popped up in my feed just today as I was thinking of upgrading the brakes on my cruiser. I want a sportier ride that handles better in the twisties, but I don't want to lose the inherent character of the bike. But seeing the advice given here, it may not be worth it.
The feel of stainless lines is just so addicting.
I was shocked when I did mine, the cost of the stainless steel lines was barely more than the cost of OEM rubber ones, but have a better feel and better durability.
of the dozens of bikes I've owned I always start by installing EBC HH pads !
They're a favorite of mine as well.
@6:13 Is no one gonna give huge kudos to the editing here?
Ari speaking seamlessly while Battle Toad instantly appears back in frame multiple times??
That's was Spenser's idea, and our editor Stephen made it happen.
One ☝️ other cheap brake upgrade that has worked for all my bikes is a high performance brake fluid, in my case I use castrol reactive brake fluid. Yes 👍 you did say about replacing old fluid but not with high performance . I have also upgraded brakes with braided lines and calliper upgrades with adopter plates .
If your bars allow for it, scoot your brake levers inwards, if you're pulling on the end of the lever you'll have a lot more power than pulling it from the middle.
I don't own a motorcycle... Heck never even ridden one but I watched this for some reason 😂 good video!
Also a very big improvement would be a correctly adjusted suspension. looks silly, but major improvement. both in brake feeling and just general bike feel
really gotta appreciate a parts website actively discouraging buying parts instead focusing on skills first.
Also larger brake discs are really heavy. The rotating mass not only slows you down, but also requires a re-setup of your bike.
Great video Ari. Do you need to look out for anything if upgrading to steel lines on a bike with abs?
Not really. As long as the abs system doesn't get dry you can bleed them at home. Did this on my 2014 sportster. Not issues on her. Having said that if the abs does go dry you may need to take it to a shop the have the abs unit bleed. If you don't your abs may not work at all or even worse you have air trapped in the system.
Good informative video! I've been looking at sintered pads but have steered away not knowing how much faster they will eat up my rotors. My brakes perform OK for my riding, but a little extra bite would be good.
Will I notice much difference in rotor wear?