*I NEED TO POINT THIS OUT:* (ALSO, people who found this video thanks to the algorithm, check this, too, as well as the description.) This was my first time making a video like this. I realize my wording isn't anywhere near the best, and a lot got lost in translation. 1.) I misspoke and meant to say "canon path" rather than "canon ending" in the beginning. 2.) I was wrong with how long Cole was in a coma for. It wasn't two weeks, it was actually only four days. 3.) I wasn't attempting to generalize humankind as a whole, my wording was just bad when I wrote my thoughts down and recorded this. That's on me lmao T H A N K Y O U!
I thought it was confirmed in the comic that good karma route is canon since it's connected for the first game to the second. You think that evil karma route makes sense for the first game means that you got played by sucker punch like a fiddle. All they ever wanted was make evil route canon to make the franchise as an anthology series... But thanks to gamers that choose good route first and make it canon, we get the games we wanted.... but unfortunately, said can't be said with Ghost of tsushima because the kill or spare ending, it leads to some sort of confusion. What's worse is gamers differentiate both infamous and ghost are different games, but like assassins creed and watchdogs that they lived in the same world. We could've get jin's sequel but now because everyone chooses spare ending they accidentally pick an evil karma route canon and yotei is gonna be woke flop all because of sony's fault for being greedy
@@popothecat9760 How does this mean I got played? The video highlights a path that a lot of fans feel is more in line with Cole's story rather than just going fully Good or Evil, and explains many reasons as to why Cole's referred to as "The Demon of Empire City." The ending still aligns with the main canon, it's just a different path leading up to that point
@E6Psyclone the way you describe the correct choice and ending reminded me of Spider-Man Web of shadows, I thought there were 2 endings but it's actually 4. Red suit = Good Black suit = Evil 1. Good ending with Mary Jane 2. Evil ending with Black Cat to rule the world with an army of symbiotes 3. Good Ending but MJ is disappointed with his choices and couldn't get her to respond his phone calls, wanting to apologize to her 4. Evil Ending but no Black Cat, he swore to make MJ his and conquered the world Someone had done the same thesis like you with complex choices and choose ending 3. By making all heroes and villains on his side and choosing the path that benefits him to achieve victory against venom. But at the cost of choosing to save Black Cat with a symbiote instead of letting MJ take her to a hospital. Now she's just ignoring his calls and broke up with him. Saying that "if Spider-Man won then Peter Parker will lose and vice versa". Since we never get to see his face in the game at all means it was true but it's honestly wrong in a different sense. The type of saying like that happened in the comics and I didn't like that because it always happens to him nowadays. Blame Zeb Wells and marvel directors for making Peter suffers all the time.
@E6Psyclone plus Bertrand would call Cole a demon like the puritan hypocrite he is so it doesn't matter anyway. What does matter is the evil ending and the black lightning doesn't make sense if you try to connect it to the second game. We could've seen that jet black electricity in the comics, He's still have it and becomes a bit stronger than what actually happened when the beast arrived in Empire. The dead drop in 2 when you go evil karma makes it more confusing on what is actually true or not, what was canon or not.
"In a game without consequences. Why are you still doing the right thing?" "Because being mean makes me feel bad." "My ultimate power fantasy is being able to help everyone."
The opposite route is also really fun, play a hero up until Trish dies, and have Cole's lust for revenge on Kessler make him activate the Ray Sphere, and in turn fulfill Kessler's vision... only to end up becoming the Beast in the second game as a result of his evil nature.
Thats how I played it the first time i ran through the game. Like Cole done lost his girl, and I wanted red lightning, so it was time to be a mean mofo
That's my favorite way to play infamous 1. I do the same with Infamous 2. Start good and then choose Nix to turn to evil karma and just roleplay that around that time, the cops have a shoot to kill order on Cole Magrath due to executing a Militia hostage during a side mission, which they find out later on. That side mission allows you to choose whether to execute the Militia prisoner or wait for the cops to arrive.
I can see Cole’s nickname of being “the demon of Empire city “ being given in either circumstances. If you go the infamous route, then yes the civilian population of Empire city will probably be calling you something akin to a lunatic or a demon. If you’re one of the people trying to take advantage or hurt the innocent people while Cole is a hero I can also see the criminal element of Empire city giving him a similar nickname. Like imagine that there is no more law enforcement and you and your gang step up and start taking control in the chaos. Now imagine two weeks later there’s a dude out of nowhere shooting lightning from his hands and absolutely mercing your men. You probably earn the nickname pretty well at that point.
Also remember how Bertrand uses a lot of religion how se saw himself as the sword of god right before he got his powers he is also jealous of cole bc Cole seems more fit in his eyes for that role,this man who controls electricity and can "fly" while him can just turn into a bug who can't even control himself he's just projecting his insecurities to the people and remember that no one knew at the start of the game that the beast destroyed Empire city so it seems the world would think cole did it since they knew and even saw him in action (the comics)
This just makes me laugh cuz there have been a couple devs who don’t want to give players a choice because they fear they will only be evil when it’s much more likely the only people playing evil are completionists doing multiple runs rather than every gamer who draws breath. But the devs I’ve heard this about are egomaniacs so they’ll never change
@mksmike Isn't it just human nature, though? If we're forced into survival, we'll steal, rob, and kill. There's few moments to allow selflessness in a selfish world.
I think the whole point of the hero path in Infamous 1 is that it IS the harder path to take, against natural impulses, which takes tremendous conviction and strength. It’s harder to be good. I do agree however that most people would probably end up being “evil” in Cole’s situation. I know the PlayStation trophy data says most did a good play through, but I think we know how people would really act when the rubber really meets the road. Especially in the six doctors vs loved one situation.
I tend to agree with everything you say, but I find it interesting that most of the evil path isn't actually all that evil. Selfish and arrogant, sure, but downright evil? Doesn't feel like it to me. He still cares about people in his own way and remains relatable in some way. He doesn't seem to take pleasure in being evil, for instance. Evil cole feels like a bully with superpowers for most of that storyline, not a dictator. All of that changes when he detonates the ray-sphere though.
Most? Don't know about that. This type of thing really depends on a person. Some people are genuinely compassionate, a lot them want to be seen as good and just, and some understand the value of cooperation. Unless you are in a survival mode - literally starving and/or are under constant threat of death, it's very unlikely for most people to become evil. More pragmatic and cold sure, but the only reason humanity has survived as long as it did is that most of us are biologically programed to prioritize survival of the group(whatever each individual considers as their group) over our own and empathize with each other's pain.
The horror of evil is that it can look exactly like common sense….I love the first Infamous games because it highlights how being good is an active choice that doesn’t always immediately make things easier.
The way you play this game REALLY embodies what it means to role play. Hearing you justify Cole shooting into the crowd to keep the food wasn’t something I liked hearing but I couldn’t deny it made sense.
Fun fact, evil karma was supposed to be the cannon one, but that changed somewhere at the very end of InFAMOUS 2 developement and stayed this way because supposedly players trophies showed that many people went for the good karma first in both games and quite a few of them never even replayed the game with evil karma Devs also admitted that they didn't really know what to do next with The Beast Cole, so keeping the good ending cannon ended up beeing a much simpler wrap to the whole story, since [MAJOR FUCKING SPOILER] Cole dies at the end of it
Uh, wasn’t it also true that Cole was supposed to live at the end of the good ending aswell? That dlc with the vampire stuff was Cole after the lightning bolt revived him if i recall correctly. Tbh, I’m pretty sure that was the whole reason they even had the bolt hit him in the first place. They were gonna make that cannon but not enough people bought the dlc so they ditched the idea.
Sets it up to remake the first game on ps5 or make a infamous 3 which takes place after the first game if you chose to be evil and toy with the idea of beast Cole fighting the beast and at the end of the game set up another mainline game with a new threat that appears that seems worse then the beast/ id be down for either but I’d prefer a remake where we don’t kill Kessler in the end and he helps us in the next game after said remake and have the dude die in battle or old age I honestly wish he was in infamous 2 his character is honestly one of my favorite villains in all of video games your literally fighting a future time traveler version of yourself who has mastered his abilities imagine if he taught Cole How to Use those abilities imagine he would be basically starkiller at that point maybe 🤔
I got introduced to this game because my dad wanted to give me a 'surprise'. He legit knew nothing about this game, and so did I. But I ended up loving the 'BD Comics' art style on certain cutscenes, and the fact you can makes choices wich changes how the story and the game in general works. And I ended up getting InFamous 2 because my mother is an care taker, and one of the mothers of the baby she took care of at home had another son, wich owned InFamous 2 and gifted it to me because he is an cool guy. He said "Give it back to me once you finished it." Well guess who still has it to this day? *ME!*
The last time I played Infamous, I played the Good Karma route up until the Ray Sphere dillemma; I activated it and became wholeheartedly infamous. The way I envisioned my playthrough, Cole was a man looking to redeem himself, pull others up to their feet, stand tall against the worst of the quarantine. Then he started losing too much because he didn't have enough control, enough power over the situations; by the point Trish dies, he was alone, close to a breaking point and no good actions could make up for the hits he took. So, he activates the sphere, actually choosing himself, for once, for the sake of others; and with no one left to protect or care, he gives in to the despair. Like you said, each player makes their own logic for being infamous, even if you bend the intended routes to your desires...
It's a shame that the inFamous franchise has been all but abandoned by both Sucker Punch and Sony. I will be looking forward to content produced by this channel 🤘🏽.
Not abandoned. Sucker Punch, in order to assure quality, only work on one game at a time. They have made clear they do intend to continue with InFamous.
@@GospelV2 it's been almost 10 years at this point. You can't blame people for starting to lose hope after this long of them just never even mentioning the series.
@@GospelV2 lol what? Infamous has never been red dead 2 quality infact infamous has always been a early ps2 era game with ps3/4 graphics. I don't think suckerpunch is working on the franchise because sony has decided all PlayStation games have to be cinematic last of us games. Days gone is a good example of PlayStation trying a blend of arcadey and the last of ustype gameplay, sony decided it wasn't good enough and went back to the same hollywood movie games they have been stuck on since the end of the ps4.
During Brandon Mission: Yeah Cole would help him because he isn't a sociopath. During Valve Mission: Nah willingly convince that random non-Conduit person to turn the valve and potentially blind them forever. it's what anybody would do lol
It's so funny to me that as you were saying, any normal reasonable person in a situation with superpowers would keep the supplies for themselves. I was literally thinking the opposite not even from a video game perspective but just as a why the hell would i hoard this much shit for 3 people instead of trying to redistribute it? Why would any normal average person with superpowers not at least want to be a little like Superman or Spider-Man in a time of crisis. It almost sounded like you were about to make a case about him being secure/strong enough to not need to go to extremes to survive. Joining a gang to survive horrible living conditions makes sense because those people are desperate and on their own weaker than as a unit. I can understand taking a bigger piece of the pie because of your powers, but not just taking the whole damn pie
Because cole wants him and his friends to eat . In infamous empire city is borderline end of the world with supplies being dropped in and roving gangs taking everything they can. Logically it makes even more sense for cole to take it all becuse he went and climbed up got it and fought the reapers off to keep it.
Totally agree about your last part. I'm thinking, like yeah equally distributing it is probably the "best" good karma option, but I think realistically if I was in that situation I'd say, alright I'm getting one entire box since I'm the person who, you know, cut it down from the parachute and fought off a gang. I think that's fair to get a little more than your fair share because of the circumstances. But taking ALL of it is a huge stretch. I genuinely think you'd need to have some empathy problems to be okay with that. It's not like Cole and friends are skin and bones.
It’s the same game logic as a 3 foot box blocking the way forward so you have to find a way around, or a fence that you could easily fit through, but you can’t in game
I think it would be more realistic that someone in coles position for the food is that they would only take one full crate for themselves. Obviously that wasn't a choice but thats what I think would happen
The only reason you believe that it could be good to be evil is because you empathize with Cole. Yet you lack empathy for anyone else in the situation. THATS the problem.
I think he's only talking about it making sense from a story perspective. Not giving the players a sense of dissonance and making a character arc for Cole possible, setting him up to be a full-on hero in the sequel
The good ending carried over to the tie-in comics after the events of the first game and it's like you said *SUCKER PUNCH GIVE US MORE INFAMOUS DAMN IT!!!*
"You can't tell me that people would be out to help anyone but themselves" Yes I can Whether you believe it or not is a you problem but yes, I can tell you that
@@sam7559exactly! We have plenty of examples that people will do what's the best for everyone in these situations. Doesn't mean everyone would but the video painting it as everyone would be selfish is just plain wrong
@@anelbegic2780it has nothing to do with “the amount of people” it’s a personal moral choice. If you aren’t an asshole, you’d share the supplies. If you are an asshole, you’re an asshole and you don’t deserve the power you’ve been given and are literally worse than the militia and the reapers combined.
@@anelbegic2780 Brother My friend Compadre Mi Amigo It was never a question of "will more people be selfish than not" It was a question of "there will absolutely be non-selfish people" You are asking for an answer to an entirely different question
With the “Demon of Empire city” line, it’s like propaganda used to demonize Cole. It makes sense that everyone in New Marias calls him that since Bertrand is on the TVs and making public speeches talking about Cole and deviants. Regardless of the demon line, it does make sense to assume that Cole would be selfish in Infamous 1. Cole would honestly be right to be upset and even mad if his city is a shithole, girlfriend leaves him, people hate him and a shady FBI agent is forcing him to do random stuff throughout the city. But just in general, in an evil play through of 1 makes the relationship of Cole and Trish pretty much nonexistent, unlike in a good play though Cole and Trish’s relationship was clearly healing. Trish hates Cole even more with better reasons since he’s evil. Not even mentioning the fact if you do the evil side missions with Sasha it works even less since the freaky tar lady is basically licking into Cole’s ear every time she speaks. Plus Cole ain’t exactly resisting her like he did the main story. At least for a player, it kinda makes Cole mourning Trish’s death and by extension a change of heart from i1 to i2 seems a little weird compared to good Cole mourning Trish. Just wanted to add this somewhere but when making the decision between the doctors and Trish, you are actually able to shoot Trish and it count as an evil action and the mission won’t fail. The following cutscene doesn’t change though.
Personally I played both games as a hero, but my fav way to start infamous 2 was as a villain, then work up to being a hero. Made the game have more impact in my opinion, redemption arcs are cool lol
I like the point you made, it's an interesting perspective. I wouldn't have thought to mix up evil and good gameplay, it adds a whole new dynamic and depth to the story
Can’t believe this got recommended after literally replayed the first game earlier this week doing these exact same choices with the exact same thought process. It was a engaging way to be ‘evil’. Starting inFamous 2 with an evil headstart and having to work to redeem Cole after what he’d done in the first game was great immersion as well.
Between the two, I think Delsin is the one that makes the most sense in being evil. He starts out as a delinquent who refuses to get a job, he's shown having no love for tradition and then after getting his powers, he starts causing all sorts of chaos around Seattle. From something as small as spray painting to property damage, this coupled with his flirtation with anarchy and the game's oppression towards conduits is exactly why he should've been a villain. Even his powers are villainous, he literally steals powers and uses them to his own advantage, that's a villain's power.
Rogue would disagree about power draining being a villain's power, bub. Powers are a tool, and none of them are inherently "evil" or "good". And I wholeheartedly disagree about your assessment of Delsin, its almost like we played two entirely different games. Delsin makes sense as either alignment far more than Cole does. Yes, Delsin is definitely a petty delinquent, but he also absolutely loves his family and respects his brother. So in the end the player chooses whether Delsin cares about tradition or gives in to being a criminal. It is literally your choice, not his.
@Seoul_Soldier Yeah Delsin loves his brother and tribe, and maybe Fetch but he talks a lot of shit about everyone else. As for my assessment about Power draining, Rogue's powers actively make her life worse because it means she can't fall in love with anyone, she can't touch a grieving friend's shoulder to comfort them without killing them, and she has to wear gloves even during the summer months.
@@gimmeyourrights8292 As for Superpowers, powers are just tools and like what Cole said in IF2 "It's not the powers that kills people, it's the person behind the powers that kills people". Plus Rogue did find ways to stay happy with her powers & did not became a villain.
I'm not so sure if Delsin would be entirely evil, tbh. I think with his relatively good-hearted nature, he'd still do the right thing, even if he's a delinquent at heart. He's got compassion for those around him, Conduits or not, and still cares about his family back in Salmon Bay. Near the end of the game, tho, I could see how Delsin might become morally questionable, especially with everything that'd happened to him, but Idk about being a full fledged villain. As for his powers, I, personally, don't think of it as stealing, it's more akin to mimicry as other Conduits like Hank, Fetch, and Eugene still possess their respective powers even after their confrontations with Delsin. Each to their own tho!
I love this version of coles choices. It makes the karma aspect canon, gives a great message of redemption. Adding to coles character as a nobody that is pushed around sees where being leads him to becoming and choosing to be different.
Nah it’s facts. In an end of the world situation you’re telling me that You’re giving all that food up instead of feeding your family? Empire city was a wasteland after the blast.
Remember that the creators wanted the evil ending to be the canon. But looking at the trophy data they saw everyone did good first before the bad. Even then there was more people doing good. So you may have some good points but with several people playing it for the first time did good is the solid fact that makes your argument crumble a bit.
taking ONLY the stuff in the game youre route is pretty "realistic" to how most people would act. Adding the extra details we know about cole via comics and other media, theres actually more grounds he would be alil more hero path albeit with some selfish moments. His relationship with his parents, while some people eventually just go estranged, some people never stop wanting approval. So cole would try to be a good hero in a weird way to spite them and earn respect. He dropped out of college while being a very good student as a principle choice for a friend being mistreated. basically cole would be willing to help others like 85% of the time but when a choice involves his closest bonds very deeply hell choose his friends.
You make some pretty good points. I agree with you too at the end. I love infamous, i really think it deserves more, with that either being a sequel or even a remastered/remake collection.
I really enjoyed this video. I didn’t think I could Love infamous more than I already do but you managed to do it The way you interpret the story makes it even more interesting than it already was it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s a canon way to look at it
I can relate to this take in a real life sense. I once had a woman who loved me dearly, but i was an asshole who was severely lacking in the empathy department. I screwed the relationship up, got scolded, and i became obsessed with treating people right.
I agree. More because Cole isn't some trained soldure or chosen one "kind of". He is a noby thrust into a S**t situation. Most people, in that kind of situation, are going to be practical. Doing whatever they have to do to keep themselves and those close to the alive. And I think he would destroy the ray sphere more because it ruined his life. All the bull he went through was directly because of the ray sphere.
I the point where he turns the valves I will also say that Cole (at this point) is the only super powered person that could tank the mind juice tbh. As shown before the decision it does wear off at some point.
This is pretty interesting. It makes a lot of sense, especially considering just how much pressure Cole went through. He’s just a regular courier that suddenly got powers, was labeled a domestic terrorist, THEN got dealt a terrible hand by Zeke and losing Trish. It’s a miracle he didn’t crack.
The first infamous had the best karma choices out of the franchise. They weren’t always perfect but really helped create a moral dilemma. For me the evil choices are the best. I love the idea of playing the villain aswell as you stated it makes sense to choose evil at moments. As you become more powerful to deal with greater threats. I definitely agree there are some moments where it makes sense to choose good over evil. As most of us don’t want to be pure evil or doesn’t fit gameplay wise. But i do disagree with your final choice to destroy or activate the raysphere. I think activating the raysphere is the best choice from a story perspective. To me its about the ends justifying the means. Cole has dealt with waves of enemies including other conduits. Lost his girlfriend has been betrayed. Aswell as seen empire city fall into chaos. As Cole states as he activates the raysphere so he can never let what happened to trish happen again. He sacrifices countless people for greater power. But he uses that greater power to defeat a bigger evil. Also taking into account that being evil makes the game easier and from a story point of view Cole prioritising his life over others and making it easier for him makes sense. since hes the only one that has the ability to save empire city and eventually the world.
I can understand that, and you make a good point with activating the Ray Sphere. I do see how it could make more sense to activate it as opposed to destroying it in an effort to be more powerful against conduits in the future, it being a situation of "if you're walking on ice, you might as well dance," so to say, since Cole had gone that far being evil. It does make sense that Cole would want as much power as possible in order to go toe to toe with a greater evil, and we do see an example of a greater evil in the comics (which I hadn't mentioned in the video cuz I'd forgotten to lol). I do have to point out, for clarity, that I'm purposely ignoring what is already known about the ending of the first and the start of the second game in order to look at things from Cole's eyes in that moment. With that said, my perspective is that Trish's final words to Cole were the straw that broke the camel's back, and what cemented the idea that he was going about things the wrong way in his head. Adding the fact that Kessler had been in his ear trying to guide him down a "better path" and make Cole more powerful than Kessler himself was in the future when the Beast showed up, which led to Trish dying in the first place. Trish was the only one he'd held close to him other than Zeke, and Zeke had just betrayed him not long prior. She would, effectively, be the only one Cole would willingly listen to, as is evident later during Hunt for the Ray Sphere when Zeke tries apologizing for his actions. Cole would only find out the reason behind Kessler's actions, and who Kessler really is, at the end after defeating him. It's refreshing to hear a different view, and I have to agree with you that the first game had the best karma choices. Thanks for the feedback!
When I played infamous 1 on rpcs3, I has the strongest feeling that Cole was so tempted to take the evil choices. Whenever he was given a mora choice in the game he was stating the obvious but very leaning on the evil karma choice For example, I have the last ice cream, and I can give it to this homeless person, although I do like this ice cream more tho
I like your version of infamous canon. Personally, I like to play through infamous one as a hero and then activate the ray sphere to turn evil and do all of sasha's evil side missions.
Saying it's "realistic" for a person to act selfishly just sounds like an excuse. Admitting that you would do something bad in a certain situation is one thing, but claiming everyone would do the same is just refusing to take responsibility. I honestly don't know how I would act if I found myself in a situation portrayed in the game; but, whatever I did would be my choice and mine alone.
Great video, hope infous makes another, maybe another Cole lore story or one where you can customize your own conduit avatar and save your city an nation from courrupt condui rule
It's funny how the devs had it to where the 1st infamous the canon was good and the 2nd was supposed to be the "evil " ending. But because, for some reason, they followed trophies that people earned. And since everyone always wants to be a hero, the good ending was made canon and then they made a back track infamous 3.
What i generally hate in games when an evil option is offered is that it is just the most comically evil option and never given as "this is bad, but in a situation like this would guarantee results". Evil choices can be made so that you see you make others suffer at cost of someone else getting good.
Loved the video dude, I feel like ppl don’t talk about infamous as much as they should. IMO it’s one of the better PlayStation exclusives, definitely in my top 5. Glad to see you’re as enthusiastic on the topic as I am. You just earned a new subscriber for life haha❤
I have to disagree when you said that any normal person, suddenly being blessed with superpowers, wouldn't be nice right off rip. From what I know, there ARE..SOME people who are genuinely a good person no matter what. And I know, cuz I am one
@@okog-jx3yp if I am in that sort of situation, then I'll SHARE the food. Because you said ALL other PEOPLE, meaning the food is enough to satisfy multiple people. So instead of just giving them or just keeping it for myself, I'll share it.
@gimmeyourrights8292 Good things tend to happen regardless of a higher power, and people can choose to be good based on their free will & choice. Like in 2020 with the pandemic, there is still some form of good out there when riots & vandalism occurred.
I LOVED playing the villian in Infamous 1. God Cole is so much more powerful and honestly if they allowed evil Cole from the first game to carry over to the beginning of the Second game he probably would have faired a much better fight againt the main protagonist. That black lighting is no joke fr.
Exactly how does being a sociopath "makes sense"?.. Evil Karma is fun but when it comes to story, Good Karma just feels more better and it worked for the Infamous comics.
Not being a sociopath per se, but the video explains that a normal man who'd been blamed for nuking the city who's now been granted with godlike power would break under those conditions.
@gimmeyourrights8292 "Godlike Superpowers" and Cole can easily be killed by water or an incoming Rocket. Besides, Cole in a way was responsible for the bombing since Kessler is Cole who started the whole thing and that Cole himself was told to do something with the package & he followed the orders which in term had caused the detonation.
theres a certain LEVEL of cruelty that "makes sense" in the way that power corrupts people and desperation makes people resort to extreme measures, so the two combined yeah its kind of within the bounds of normal to expect some people to do some awful things under those combined circumstances not to the degree of total sociopathy but yknow a level for sure
@@Officer_Balls999 yeahbut I didnt watch the whole video I turned off when he said "you cant tell me people would be out to help anyone but themselves" like yes I can
I would say it would depend on the person prior to a massive pandemic event. If they were already selfless before, they'd likely be willing to keep doing so even when facing hard times, whereas obviously a more selfish person would feel more embolden now that they have powers. In the case of Cole, what little we know of him lore wise prior to the games is sparse, only suggesting that he wasn't at all heroic, but also not necessarily doing anything bad or wrong, just simply going through life in his own way. If we use the future Kessler lived through, we can assume at best that Cole was just an ordinary man, just doing what he felt necessary to get by and keep his family and loved ones safe. With the carefully orchestrated situation caused by Kessler, it pushed Cole into situations while he was at his lowest; his girlfriend blamed him for the death of her sister, his best friend was clearly on edge about him, and the people of the city were being gaslit by a random dude hijacking the airwaves to conveniently dull out info. As for Cole's nickname, it could be argued that with Empire City now a smoldering crater and barely anybody left alive that wasn't on the boat Kuo commandeered, Bertrand was able to rile up suspicions, especially since he had been already gaslighting New Marais for years given his secret attempts to gain powers and turning people into the swamp monsters. That said, the moniker can fit with either explanations; Cole being good/bad in the original game prior to the second. On the subject of the second game, it definitely felt like Sucker Punch got a bit too concerned with keeping the plot balanced and only letting the good/evil choices affect situational moments, which may have helped avoid the usual disconnect that comes with karma choices in game sequels, but it was a shame that Cole didn't really act differently depending on his karma. Which is a shame since it was fun seeing Cole act vicious in the evil scenes of the original, or an increasingly heroic man in the good versions. The evil ending of the second game had him feel more like an anti-villain as he becomes the new Beast and marches across the world to activate all conduits suffering from the plague caused by ray field energy. That's probably one thing I'll give a positive to with Second Son. While they clearly didn't flesh out the divergent paths enough, you at least could see Delsin acting differently depending on his karma; Good Delsin wanted to help his tribe, as well as the Conduits who he basically felt were his own people - while evil Delsin was clearly becoming power hungry and seeking to grow his arsenal of skills. Just too bad they didn't give Reggie a unique death for evil path where he berates Delsin, or at least wishes he'll find redemption. All that said, I do wish we had gotten an Infamous game based on the evil ending of the second, showing how the world turns out in a distant future following Cole's rise as the second Beast. I can only imagine we probably would have had to take on a new character to play as since there would no way for Cole to be challenged outside of maybe some activated Conduits just being super powerful or somehow stealing power from him.
It sucks that in the infamous games you end up wasting time if you want to change your karma rank and redeem yourself because it makes it so people just end up picking blue or red rather than actually making decisions
I would say the first game makes sense to play evil straight through considering you start off a basically a nobody and get thrusted off as the one responsible for the destruction of the city. Over the course of the game from the start being perceived and treated as an enemy by everyone around you is a good motivating factor to defend you and those you care about. Even if you chose to be good the amount trust Cole would have to put in to the people of Empire is almost too high of an obstacle to overcome. The drive to do good for people around you is fine in some decisions however even at times of healing people doing an evil playthrough they'll still attack you no matter how much good you've done for them in that moment. The Betrayal from Zeke siding with Kessler would only cement that he could only truly trust himself in Empire City. At the beginning of Infamous 2 could be a starting position for good. After activating the ray sphere to attain more power and then losing it all to The Beast in the start of the game, would be enough to change his ways and understanding no matter how much power you obtain it won't be enough on it's own. Taking in the account of Trish scolding him on how he used is powers would put him over the edge. Realizing to redeem himself for all the people he lost along the way that the only way to end this is to be a good hero character and end the evil threat once and for all.
I add my voice to yours calling for mor Infamous. Even a remaster of the first two games would be good. But I agree with your take and it largely matches my first playthough all those years ago. while i was just a teen, I did make a selfish decision early in the game but seeing my consequences beyond just karma meter but with how the civilians interacted with me really got to me. Love that game and wish I could play it again
I've played every infamous game in every way you can and I always end up with a mixed bag when I play cole how I would be and not how he would be. I never fully reach his potential because depending on the situation I'll do the right thing or not just like any other person. I really love these games and want more of them especially of cole. They could still make infamous 3 bring cole back in my mind. The good ending in infamous 2 had the lightning strike at the end which could be him being brought back or you can end it with him as the beast and you're another conduit and you either fight cole or join him
Tbh if they ever do give us a new infamous game, I'd really like if the choices were more ambiguous tbh Instead of having to choose the Blue choice and the Red choice, if they just left it up in the air as to which is which, and some situations it's clear but others it's not. Also maybe a better system with more than 2 choices to further that level of ambiguity. Option A gives you 2 good points, option B gives you 1 good point, option c gives 2 bad points and d gives 1 bad point. And all of it is left up to your decision in that moment over simply picking a side
I have been in Coles position, and I didn’t take everything for myself. I only took what I needed and helped pass around everything else. And even when I looked through what I had and saw something I personally just didn’t like, I intentionally walked around and found someone who would like that thing in particular so that it wouldn’t go to waste. Not everyone is selfish like that.
One thing I really like is how good it plays the "no one can keep me in check" card, like if you say something mean to me irl I'll ignore it cause there's nothing I can do that's worth the trouble, but put me in control of a demigod who's power is on par with an army and the slightest bit of shade coming my way will level a city block Sure lotsa games have this sense of "power", however you are almost always limited by the story, by "being the nice guy", either the only people mean to you are the enemies or you're not allowed to touch 'civillians' Good stories are when you can/is allowed to, but the writing is good enough to keep you from doing so, imo
You’ve made me want to play the originals. I grew up watching my brother play them and I’ve only played second son when it came out. But now I think I’m ready to play these
I'd say the bad karma path doesn't necessarily make more sense, since you are essentially getting framed (which doesn't mean you need to do bad to be seen as bad). Yeah you could make a point for him having a bad day after the supplies, but I don't believe he'd ever take everything.
My only real debatable point would be the first karma choice, but it could go either way looking at things. Since the Reapers just tried to do what you are then considering it would stand to reason that you wouldn't in that principle of things. But, it is the first choice, and thus the least consequential. But from your first choice, I think that would determine if you would start a hero or villain, all for which way you first lean. if you fire on the crowd and are demonized, it becomes easier to continue down that path, but if you choose not to, and not become a pariah, then you don't worry as much. While the consequences aren't far reaching, that first choice will usually dictate your entire first playthrough.
Dude I got this game for free, FOREVER ago!! I totally forgot about. I expected it to suck cuz it was free, and this was a long time ago when that wasn’t a big thing. Holy shit was it one of the best games I’ve ever played! This brought back great memories lol
i played good karma story more often then not and sure I occasionally did some evil options but most of them were more pragmatic then not mostly because I preferred the more precise powers of good vs the more splash aoe of the outlaw powers mostly only being evil with the tar missions and semi rationalizing it as better to put the occasional civ and let them get mind controlled then get hobbled by the tar until it wore off. and in the second game still forcibly taking ray sphere shards from people as the evil option aswell as defusing the blast shard traps mostly because it was incredibly radioactive and probably not save for someone to just be carrying around plus making cole stronger to protect people was a common sense pragmatic options.
You forgot to factor that Cole was given power in a city where the government has forced them into quarantine, rampant crime is tearing it apart and everyone is struggling. Yes, there may be reasons to be selfish when it comes to the stealing of all the supplies after beating the main gang but I doubt most people would put themselves in harms way to fight the gang oppressing the city just to be worse than them. I think it just comes down to what the player justifies what’s okay in their head when given the power Cole is given.
@@spectredeadgaming7874 My writing definitely could’ve used some adjustments before I uploaded this, but in my defense, it was my first time trying this style of video, so my wording wasn’t the best lol I’d neglected to add in some of the lore, especially with the Post Blast comic since I didn’t know it existed at the time I’d uploaded this (which I mentioned in my inFAMOUS 2 Karma video). I’d looked at it from the view of “Cole’s situation sucks, this is how it makes some sense of why he’d do this,” but wasn’t as detailed as I thought. It was also pointed out to me that the first Karmic Moment could go either way, and likely makes more sense to go Evil after deciding to give away the food. I see what you mean, tho, and I appreciate the feedback!
Here's the thing though all the people down there were listening to the TV reports before he was brought down the reports of him being the cause of everything blaming him for the incidents and also blaming him for all the other insane monsters I appeared there
Just saw this now and I'ma say it does make perfect sense especially during the game when you are doing a pure good karma run Trish is still laying it on you like I got mad at that because it's like "when will you forgive me lady? It wasn't my fault at ALL and here you go on and on I am saving lives doing pure good and straight being a saint and yet I am still the bad guy". So yeah up to a point Cole had to be inFamous.
i want a 3rd cole game where we get to gain kesler's powers and devolope the powers from the second game for one final fight with cole that forever clears his name and lets the world know that he saved it
Not gonna lie, if I was given power, like Cole, only to be labeled as a terrorist; a demon, and immediately got attacked by the people I would have _just_ helped seconds ago, i would of obviously defended myself, even being unnecessarily brutal, because if you fight back for a moment then back off, your attackers are going to come right back.
I wish the karmic progression was separated from the power progression and from the story progression. I tried to max my good and evil karma in the same playthrough to see how the good and bad powers synergized, but they don't. If you're good, you get the good powers. If you're bad, you get the bad powers.
Imo, i think if youre doing an evil playthrough, Cole would STILL pick the good option when given the food choice. He gives the food away to people and then when the tv jacker comes on and frames him as the bad guy, people attack you anyway, even though you JUST got food for them. Then he'd just do whatever it takes to get out, leading to starting a riot at the bridge as he cares less and less about the other people in empire city and more about himself and his close friends
Y'know what? You got a point there. I always thought of it as Cole wakes up from the coma, sees the steady decay of the city, and goes "I gotta protect my own" as his powers keep increasing, but never did think of it from the idea of attempting to do what everyone would think of as the right thing, only to get framed as the villain and crucified. When you put it like that, the first Karmic Moment could, actually, go either way.
So my big takeaway is that Zeke and Trish are dumb jerks that treat you like trash for something that clearly wasnt your fault and betray you. Who needs an antagonist with those two Benedict Arnolds by your side?
*I NEED TO POINT THIS OUT:*
(ALSO, people who found this video thanks to the algorithm, check this, too, as well as the description.)
This was my first time making a video like this. I realize my wording isn't anywhere near the best, and a lot got lost in translation.
1.) I misspoke and meant to say "canon path" rather than "canon ending" in the beginning.
2.) I was wrong with how long Cole was in a coma for. It wasn't two weeks, it was actually only four days.
3.) I wasn't attempting to generalize humankind as a whole, my wording was just bad when I wrote my thoughts down and recorded this.
That's on me lmao
T H A N K Y O U!
I thought it was confirmed in the comic that good karma route is canon since it's connected for the first game to the second.
You think that evil karma route makes sense for the first game means that you got played by sucker punch like a fiddle.
All they ever wanted was make evil route canon to make the franchise as an anthology series... But thanks to gamers that choose good route first and make it canon, we get the games we wanted....
but unfortunately, said can't be said with Ghost of tsushima because the kill or spare ending, it leads to some sort of confusion. What's worse is gamers differentiate both infamous and ghost are different games, but like assassins creed and watchdogs that they lived in the same world.
We could've get jin's sequel but now because everyone chooses spare ending they accidentally pick an evil karma route canon and yotei is gonna be woke flop all because of sony's fault for being greedy
@@popothecat9760 How does this mean I got played?
The video highlights a path that a lot of fans feel is more in line with Cole's story rather than just going fully Good or Evil, and explains many reasons as to why Cole's referred to as "The Demon of Empire City." The ending still aligns with the main canon, it's just a different path leading up to that point
@E6Psyclone the way you describe the correct choice and ending reminded me of Spider-Man Web of shadows, I thought there were 2 endings but it's actually 4.
Red suit = Good
Black suit = Evil
1. Good ending with Mary Jane
2. Evil ending with Black Cat to rule the world with an army of symbiotes
3. Good Ending but MJ is disappointed with his choices and couldn't get her to respond his phone calls, wanting to apologize to her
4. Evil Ending but no Black Cat, he swore to make MJ his and conquered the world
Someone had done the same thesis like you with complex choices and choose ending 3.
By making all heroes and villains on his side and choosing the path that benefits him to achieve victory against venom. But at the cost of choosing to save Black Cat with a symbiote instead of letting MJ take her to a hospital. Now she's just ignoring his calls and broke up with him.
Saying that "if Spider-Man won then Peter Parker will lose and vice versa". Since we never get to see his face in the game at all means it was true but it's honestly wrong in a different sense.
The type of saying like that happened in the comics and I didn't like that because it always happens to him nowadays. Blame Zeb Wells and marvel directors for making Peter suffers all the time.
@E6Psyclone plus Bertrand would call Cole a demon like the puritan hypocrite he is so it doesn't matter anyway.
What does matter is the evil ending and the black lightning doesn't make sense if you try to connect it to the second game. We could've seen that jet black electricity in the comics, He's still have it and becomes a bit stronger than what actually happened when the beast arrived in Empire.
The dead drop in 2 when you go evil karma makes it more confusing on what is actually true or not, what was canon or not.
Everything is fine dude, but where is goth chick tagged?
"In a game without consequences. Why are you still doing the right thing?"
"Because being mean makes me feel bad."
"My ultimate power fantasy is being able to help everyone."
An unbelievably based take.
Felt that second one heavy
Felt this in my soul I feel like I would be the villain but I always tend to do the right thing still have no clue why
@@Feathers_McGraw580 You dropped this 👑
I couldn't agree more. I never understood ppl who always choose the evil option in games like this. I like being the hero
The opposite route is also really fun, play a hero up until Trish dies, and have Cole's lust for revenge on Kessler make him activate the Ray Sphere, and in turn fulfill Kessler's vision... only to end up becoming the Beast in the second game as a result of his evil nature.
Never thought of it that way but it makes so much sense.
A self fulfilling prophecy
@papawedge7396
also, black and red lightning is REALLY COOL!
Thats how I played it the first time i ran through the game. Like Cole done lost his girl, and I wanted red lightning, so it was time to be a mean mofo
That's my favorite way to play infamous 1. I do the same with Infamous 2. Start good and then choose Nix to turn to evil karma and just roleplay that around that time, the cops have a shoot to kill order on Cole Magrath due to executing a Militia hostage during a side mission, which they find out later on. That side mission allows you to choose whether to execute the Militia prisoner or wait for the cops to arrive.
I can see Cole’s nickname of being “the demon of Empire city “ being given in either circumstances. If you go the infamous route, then yes the civilian population of Empire city will probably be calling you something akin to a lunatic or a demon. If you’re one of the people trying to take advantage or hurt the innocent people while Cole is a hero I can also see the criminal element of Empire city giving him a similar nickname.
Like imagine that there is no more law enforcement and you and your gang step up and start taking control in the chaos. Now imagine two weeks later there’s a dude out of nowhere shooting lightning from his hands and absolutely mercing your men. You probably earn the nickname pretty well at that point.
Also remember how Bertrand uses a lot of religion how se saw himself as the sword of god right before he got his powers he is also jealous of cole bc Cole seems more fit in his eyes for that role,this man who controls electricity and can "fly" while him can just turn into a bug who can't even control himself he's just projecting his insecurities to the people and remember that no one knew at the start of the game that the beast destroyed Empire city so it seems the world would think cole did it since they knew and even saw him in action (the comics)
@@shizunethebestFacts. He really only said demon because he’s a false preacher and it’s a good way to get the attention of extremists
You cooked with this one gng can't lie👏🏾👏🏾
The developers said they wanted the bad endings to be cannon, but the data they collected showed that way more people played the good endings
This guy's take on the whole thing is a very cynical one.
This just makes me laugh cuz there have been a couple devs who don’t want to give players a choice because they fear they will only be evil when it’s much more likely the only people playing evil are completionists doing multiple runs rather than every gamer who draws breath. But the devs I’ve heard this about are egomaniacs so they’ll never change
@mksmike Isn't it just human nature, though? If we're forced into survival, we'll steal, rob, and kill. There's few moments to allow selflessness in a selfish world.
I think the whole point of the hero path in Infamous 1 is that it IS the harder path to take, against natural impulses, which takes tremendous conviction and strength. It’s harder to be good.
I do agree however that most people would probably end up being “evil” in Cole’s situation. I know the PlayStation trophy data says most did a good play through, but I think we know how people would really act when the rubber really meets the road. Especially in the six doctors vs loved one situation.
True
I tend to agree with everything you say, but I find it interesting that most of the evil path isn't actually all that evil.
Selfish and arrogant, sure, but downright evil? Doesn't feel like it to me. He still cares about people in his own way and remains relatable in some way.
He doesn't seem to take pleasure in being evil, for instance.
Evil cole feels like a bully with superpowers for most of that storyline, not a dictator.
All of that changes when he detonates the ray-sphere though.
@@woutergrob8587if you're evil karma, you work with Sasha and the Reapers to rein the city in. How is that not evil ?
Most? Don't know about that.
This type of thing really depends on a person. Some people are genuinely compassionate, a lot them want to be seen as good and just, and some understand the value of cooperation.
Unless you are in a survival mode - literally starving and/or are under constant threat of death, it's very unlikely for most people to become evil. More pragmatic and cold sure, but the only reason humanity has survived as long as it did is that most of us are biologically programed to prioritize survival of the group(whatever each individual considers as their group) over our own and empathize with each other's pain.
@JabamiLain I think they mean evil Cole in Infamous 2. Cole in Infamous 1 is far more villainous than cole from Infamous 2 tbh.
The horror of evil is that it can look exactly like common sense….I love the first Infamous games because it highlights how being good is an active choice that doesn’t always immediately make things easier.
The way you play this game REALLY embodies what it means to role play. Hearing you justify Cole shooting into the crowd to keep the food wasn’t something I liked hearing but I couldn’t deny it made sense.
Fun fact, evil karma was supposed to be the cannon one, but that changed somewhere at the very end of InFAMOUS 2 developement and stayed this way because supposedly players trophies showed that many people went for the good karma first in both games and quite a few of them never even replayed the game with evil karma
Devs also admitted that they didn't really know what to do next with The Beast Cole, so keeping the good ending cannon ended up beeing a much simpler wrap to the whole story, since [MAJOR FUCKING SPOILER]
Cole dies at the end of it
Uh, wasn’t it also true that Cole was supposed to live at the end of the good ending aswell? That dlc with the vampire stuff was Cole after the lightning bolt revived him if i recall correctly. Tbh, I’m pretty sure that was the whole reason they even had the bolt hit him in the first place. They were gonna make that cannon but not enough people bought the dlc so they ditched the idea.
Sets it up to remake the first game on ps5 or make a infamous 3 which takes place after the first game if you chose to be evil and toy with the idea of beast Cole fighting the beast and at the end of the game set up another mainline game with a new threat that appears that seems worse then the beast/ id be down for either but I’d prefer a remake where we don’t kill Kessler in the end and he helps us in the next game after said remake and have the dude die in battle or old age I honestly wish he was in infamous 2 his character is honestly one of my favorite villains in all of video games your literally fighting a future time traveler version of yourself who has mastered his abilities imagine if he taught Cole
How to
Use those abilities imagine he would be basically starkiller at that point maybe 🤔
I got introduced to this game because my dad wanted to give me a 'surprise'. He legit knew nothing about this game, and so did I. But I ended up loving the 'BD Comics' art style on certain cutscenes, and the fact you can makes choices wich changes how the story and the game in general works. And I ended up getting InFamous 2 because my mother is an care taker, and one of the mothers of the baby she took care of at home had another son, wich owned InFamous 2 and gifted it to me because he is an cool guy. He said "Give it back to me once you finished it." Well guess who still has it to this day?
*ME!*
U EVER GONNA GiVE iT BACK ? OR AT LEAZT LET HiM KNOW 1ST !? [NOT YELLiNG, JUZT LiKE TYPiNG iN CAPZ]
THANKZ 4 THE LiKEZ GUYZ !
Honestly, after he got sprayed the first time by turning the valve, he would’ve just stood beside and turned it instead of standing in front of it
The last time I played Infamous, I played the Good Karma route up until the Ray Sphere dillemma; I activated it and became wholeheartedly infamous.
The way I envisioned my playthrough, Cole was a man looking to redeem himself, pull others up to their feet, stand tall against the worst of the quarantine.
Then he started losing too much because he didn't have enough control, enough power over the situations; by the point Trish dies, he was alone, close to a breaking point and no good actions could make up for the hits he took.
So, he activates the sphere, actually choosing himself, for once, for the sake of others; and with no one left to protect or care, he gives in to the despair.
Like you said, each player makes their own logic for being infamous, even if you bend the intended routes to your desires...
I hope my guy never gets super powers with how his logic is portrayed lol
The black lightning when you get the second ray sphere looked so sick
It's a shame that the inFamous franchise has been all but abandoned by both Sucker Punch and Sony. I will be looking forward to content produced by this channel 🤘🏽.
Not abandoned. Sucker Punch, in order to assure quality, only work on one game at a time. They have made clear they do intend to continue with InFamous.
@@GospelV2 it's been almost 10 years at this point. You can't blame people for starting to lose hope after this long of them just never even mentioning the series.
@@GospelV2 lol what? Infamous has never been red dead 2 quality infact infamous has always been a early ps2 era game with ps3/4 graphics. I don't think suckerpunch is working on the franchise because sony has decided all PlayStation games have to be cinematic last of us games. Days gone is a good example of PlayStation trying a blend of arcadey and the last of ustype gameplay, sony decided it wasn't good enough and went back to the same hollywood movie games they have been stuck on since the end of the ps4.
During Brandon Mission: Yeah Cole would help him because he isn't a sociopath.
During Valve Mission: Nah willingly convince that random non-Conduit person to turn the valve and potentially blind them forever. it's what anybody would do lol
*skipping all of the things that happened in between those two moments*
inFAMOUS will always hold a place in my heart . and dude you'r fkn nuts , your story telling is crazy keep up the good work man
It's so funny to me that as you were saying, any normal reasonable person in a situation with superpowers would keep the supplies for themselves. I was literally thinking the opposite not even from a video game perspective but just as a why the hell would i hoard this much shit for 3 people instead of trying to redistribute it? Why would any normal average person with superpowers not at least want to be a little like Superman or Spider-Man in a time of crisis. It almost sounded like you were about to make a case about him being secure/strong enough to not need to go to extremes to survive. Joining a gang to survive horrible living conditions makes sense because those people are desperate and on their own weaker than as a unit. I can understand taking a bigger piece of the pie because of your powers, but not just taking the whole damn pie
Because cole wants him and his friends to eat . In infamous empire city is borderline end of the world with supplies being dropped in and roving gangs taking everything they can. Logically it makes even more sense for cole to take it all becuse he went and climbed up got it and fought the reapers off to keep it.
Totally agree about your last part. I'm thinking, like yeah equally distributing it is probably the "best" good karma option, but I think realistically if I was in that situation I'd say, alright I'm getting one entire box since I'm the person who, you know, cut it down from the parachute and fought off a gang. I think that's fair to get a little more than your fair share because of the circumstances. But taking ALL of it is a huge stretch. I genuinely think you'd need to have some empathy problems to be okay with that. It's not like Cole and friends are skin and bones.
If you lived in a city filled with gangs and superhuman freaks and you were one of them yourself, you would've done the same.
9:19 Cole could just turn the valves from the sides, just saying.
Wait a damn minute
HA!
That's what I kept thinking. It really wasn't as deep as Cole made it out to be. "Either I get crud on my face or I sacrifice this stranger" c'mon now
@@lottisummers3811 Cole is not really the sharpest tool in the shed.
It’s the same game logic as a 3 foot box blocking the way forward so you have to find a way around, or a fence that you could easily fit through, but you can’t in game
I think it would be more realistic that someone in coles position for the food is that they would only take one full crate for themselves. Obviously that wasn't a choice but thats what I think would happen
The only reason you believe that it could be good to be evil is because you empathize with Cole. Yet you lack empathy for anyone else in the situation. THATS the problem.
he didn't say it was good, he say that it makes sense from a story standpoint
I think he's only talking about it making sense from a story perspective. Not giving the players a sense of dissonance and making a character arc for Cole possible, setting him up to be a full-on hero in the sequel
The good ending carried over to the tie-in comics after the events of the first game and it's like you said *SUCKER PUNCH GIVE US MORE INFAMOUS DAMN IT!!!*
"You can't tell me that people would be out to help anyone but themselves"
Yes I can
Whether you believe it or not is a you problem but yes, I can tell you that
It like dude never heard of people helping others in disaster situations
Now name the amount of people who would just be out for themselves comparstively...
@@sam7559exactly! We have plenty of examples that people will do what's the best for everyone in these situations. Doesn't mean everyone would but the video painting it as everyone would be selfish is just plain wrong
@@anelbegic2780it has nothing to do with “the amount of people” it’s a personal moral choice. If you aren’t an asshole, you’d share the supplies. If you are an asshole, you’re an asshole and you don’t deserve the power you’ve been given and are literally worse than the militia and the reapers combined.
@@anelbegic2780 Brother
My friend
Compadre
Mi Amigo
It was never a question of "will more people be selfish than not"
It was a question of "there will absolutely be non-selfish people"
You are asking for an answer to an entirely different question
With the “Demon of Empire city” line, it’s like propaganda used to demonize Cole. It makes sense that everyone in New Marias calls him that since Bertrand is on the TVs and making public speeches talking about Cole and deviants.
Regardless of the demon line, it does make sense to assume that Cole would be selfish in Infamous 1. Cole would honestly be right to be upset and even mad if his city is a shithole, girlfriend leaves him, people hate him and a shady FBI agent is forcing him to do random stuff throughout the city.
But just in general, in an evil play through of 1 makes the relationship of Cole and Trish pretty much nonexistent, unlike in a good play though Cole and Trish’s relationship was clearly healing.
Trish hates Cole even more with better reasons since he’s evil. Not even mentioning the fact if you do the evil side missions with Sasha it works even less since the freaky tar lady is basically licking into Cole’s ear every time she speaks. Plus Cole ain’t exactly resisting her like he did the main story. At least for a player, it kinda makes Cole mourning Trish’s death and by extension a change of heart from i1 to i2 seems a little weird compared to good Cole mourning Trish.
Just wanted to add this somewhere but when making the decision between the doctors and Trish, you are actually able to shoot Trish and it count as an evil action and the mission won’t fail. The following cutscene doesn’t change though.
Personally I played both games as a hero, but my fav way to start infamous 2 was as a villain, then work up to being a hero. Made the game have more impact in my opinion, redemption arcs are cool lol
9:07 hope she sees this bro
I like the point you made, it's an interesting perspective. I wouldn't have thought to mix up evil and good gameplay, it adds a whole new dynamic and depth to the story
Can’t believe this got recommended after literally replayed the first game earlier this week doing these exact same choices with the exact same thought process. It was a engaging way to be ‘evil’.
Starting inFamous 2 with an evil headstart and having to work to redeem Cole after what he’d done in the first game was great immersion as well.
That fact that we haven't got any new infamous game in 10 years is a crime
Between the two, I think Delsin is the one that makes the most sense in being evil. He starts out as a delinquent who refuses to get a job, he's shown having no love for tradition and then after getting his powers, he starts causing all sorts of chaos around Seattle. From something as small as spray painting to property damage, this coupled with his flirtation with anarchy and the game's oppression towards conduits is exactly why he should've been a villain. Even his powers are villainous, he literally steals powers and uses them to his own advantage, that's a villain's power.
Rogue would disagree about power draining being a villain's power, bub. Powers are a tool, and none of them are inherently "evil" or "good".
And I wholeheartedly disagree about your assessment of Delsin, its almost like we played two entirely different games. Delsin makes sense as either alignment far more than Cole does. Yes, Delsin is definitely a petty delinquent, but he also absolutely loves his family and respects his brother. So in the end the player chooses whether Delsin cares about tradition or gives in to being a criminal. It is literally your choice, not his.
@Seoul_Soldier Yeah Delsin loves his brother and tribe, and maybe Fetch but he talks a lot of shit about everyone else. As for my assessment about Power draining, Rogue's powers actively make her life worse because it means she can't fall in love with anyone, she can't touch a grieving friend's shoulder to comfort them without killing them, and she has to wear gloves even during the summer months.
@@gimmeyourrights8292 Delsin maybe a prankster, but even pranksters have standards & him showing care for Betty & his tribe just shows his good side.
@@gimmeyourrights8292 As for Superpowers, powers are just tools and like what Cole said in IF2 "It's not the powers that kills people, it's the person behind the powers that kills people". Plus Rogue did find ways to stay happy with her powers & did not became a villain.
I'm not so sure if Delsin would be entirely evil, tbh. I think with his relatively good-hearted nature, he'd still do the right thing, even if he's a delinquent at heart. He's got compassion for those around him, Conduits or not, and still cares about his family back in Salmon Bay. Near the end of the game, tho, I could see how Delsin might become morally questionable, especially with everything that'd happened to him, but Idk about being a full fledged villain.
As for his powers, I, personally, don't think of it as stealing, it's more akin to mimicry as other Conduits like Hank, Fetch, and Eugene still possess their respective powers even after their confrontations with Delsin.
Each to their own tho!
I love this version of coles choices. It makes the karma aspect canon, gives a great message of redemption. Adding to coles character as a nobody that is pushed around sees where being leads him to becoming and choosing to be different.
Dude.... badass take. Now i wanna replay the game exactly like the route you just described
Thinking the average person would be an asshole right off rip receiving powers is pretty wild
Nah it’s facts. In an end of the world situation you’re telling me that You’re giving all that food up instead of feeding your family? Empire city was a wasteland after the blast.
But having the power to help other people IS my inner selfish trait. To be able to brighten someone’s day because it makes me feel good to do so.
Remember that the creators wanted the evil ending to be the canon. But looking at the trophy data they saw everyone did good first before the bad. Even then there was more people doing good. So you may have some good points but with several people playing it for the first time did good is the solid fact that makes your argument crumble a bit.
that no one mocked the guy by calling him emperor or palpetine is a huge oversight.
taking ONLY the stuff in the game youre route is pretty "realistic" to how most people would act.
Adding the extra details we know about cole via comics and other media, theres actually more grounds he would be alil more hero path albeit with some selfish moments. His relationship with his parents, while some people eventually just go estranged, some people never stop wanting approval. So cole would try to be a good hero in a weird way to spite them and earn respect. He dropped out of college while being a very good student as a principle choice for a friend being mistreated.
basically cole would be willing to help others like 85% of the time but when a choice involves his closest bonds very deeply hell choose his friends.
You make some pretty good points. I agree with you too at the end. I love infamous, i really think it deserves more, with that either being a sequel or even a remastered/remake collection.
I really enjoyed this video. I didn’t think I could Love infamous more than I already do but you managed to do it The way you interpret the story makes it even more interesting than it already was it wouldn’t surprise me if that’s a canon way to look at it
I can relate to this take in a real life sense. I once had a woman who loved me dearly, but i was an asshole who was severely lacking in the empathy department. I screwed the relationship up, got scolded, and i became obsessed with treating people right.
I agree. More because Cole isn't some trained soldure or chosen one "kind of". He is a noby thrust into a S**t situation. Most people, in that kind of situation, are going to be practical. Doing whatever they have to do to keep themselves and those close to the alive.
And I think he would destroy the ray sphere more because it ruined his life. All the bull he went through was directly because of the ray sphere.
I the point where he turns the valves I will also say that Cole (at this point) is the only super powered person that could tank the mind juice tbh. As shown before the decision it does wear off at some point.
This is pretty interesting. It makes a lot of sense, especially considering just how much pressure Cole went through. He’s just a regular courier that suddenly got powers, was labeled a domestic terrorist, THEN got dealt a terrible hand by Zeke and losing Trish. It’s a miracle he didn’t crack.
The first infamous had the best karma choices out of the franchise. They weren’t always perfect but really helped create a moral dilemma.
For me the evil choices are the best. I love the idea of playing the villain aswell as you stated it makes sense to choose evil at moments. As you become more powerful to deal with greater threats.
I definitely agree there are some moments where it makes sense to choose good over evil. As most of us don’t want to be pure evil or doesn’t fit gameplay wise.
But i do disagree with your final choice to destroy or activate the raysphere. I think activating the raysphere is the best choice from a story perspective.
To me its about the ends justifying the means. Cole has dealt with waves of enemies including other conduits. Lost his girlfriend has been betrayed. Aswell as seen empire city fall into chaos. As Cole states as he activates the raysphere so he can never let what happened to trish happen again. He sacrifices countless people for greater power. But he uses that greater power to defeat a bigger evil.
Also taking into account that being evil makes the game easier and from a story point of view Cole prioritising his life over others and making it easier for him makes sense. since hes the only one that has the ability to save empire city and eventually the world.
I can understand that, and you make a good point with activating the Ray Sphere. I do see how it could make more sense to activate it as opposed to destroying it in an effort to be more powerful against conduits in the future, it being a situation of "if you're walking on ice, you might as well dance," so to say, since Cole had gone that far being evil. It does make sense that Cole would want as much power as possible in order to go toe to toe with a greater evil, and we do see an example of a greater evil in the comics (which I hadn't mentioned in the video cuz I'd forgotten to lol).
I do have to point out, for clarity, that I'm purposely ignoring what is already known about the ending of the first and the start of the second game in order to look at things from Cole's eyes in that moment. With that said, my perspective is that Trish's final words to Cole were the straw that broke the camel's back, and what cemented the idea that he was going about things the wrong way in his head. Adding the fact that Kessler had been in his ear trying to guide him down a "better path" and make Cole more powerful than Kessler himself was in the future when the Beast showed up, which led to Trish dying in the first place. Trish was the only one he'd held close to him other than Zeke, and Zeke had just betrayed him not long prior. She would, effectively, be the only one Cole would willingly listen to, as is evident later during Hunt for the Ray Sphere when Zeke tries apologizing for his actions. Cole would only find out the reason behind Kessler's actions, and who Kessler really is, at the end after defeating him.
It's refreshing to hear a different view, and I have to agree with you that the first game had the best karma choices. Thanks for the feedback!
When I played infamous 1 on rpcs3, I has the strongest feeling that Cole was so tempted to take the evil choices. Whenever he was given a mora choice in the game he was stating the obvious but very leaning on the evil karma choice
For example, I have the last ice cream, and I can give it to this homeless person, although I do like this ice cream more tho
Was I the only one who loved the bosses in this game?
Media painted him bad, that's y he is called that
This was AWESOME great ending man thanks for this
I like your version of infamous canon. Personally, I like to play through infamous one as a hero and then activate the ray sphere to turn evil and do all of sasha's evil side missions.
Saying it's "realistic" for a person to act selfishly just sounds like an excuse. Admitting that you would do something bad in a certain situation is one thing, but claiming everyone would do the same is just refusing to take responsibility.
I honestly don't know how I would act if I found myself in a situation portrayed in the game; but, whatever I did would be my choice and mine alone.
Great video, hope infous makes another, maybe another Cole lore story or one where you can customize your own conduit avatar and save your city an nation from courrupt condui rule
It's funny how the devs had it to where the 1st infamous the canon was good and the 2nd was supposed to be the "evil " ending.
But because, for some reason, they followed trophies that people earned. And since everyone always wants to be a hero, the good ending was made canon and then they made a back track infamous 3.
What i generally hate in games when an evil option is offered is that it is just the most comically evil option and never given as "this is bad, but in a situation like this would guarantee results". Evil choices can be made so that you see you make others suffer at cost of someone else getting good.
Loved the video dude, I feel like ppl don’t talk about infamous as much as they should. IMO it’s one of the better PlayStation exclusives, definitely in my top 5. Glad to see you’re as enthusiastic on the topic as I am. You just earned a new subscriber for life haha❤
This is one of those game series I'd love to ome back.
Excellent video, mate, you made a lot of sense.
I have to disagree when you said that any normal person, suddenly being blessed with superpowers, wouldn't be nice right off rip. From what I know, there ARE..SOME people who are genuinely a good person no matter what. And I know, cuz I am one
IF YOU WHERE IN A SURVIVAL SITUATION WHERE YOUR REALLY REALLY HUNGRY take the food for your self or let all the other people get it
You have a lot of faith that those some people will remain that way in an apocalyptic survival situation with unlimited power.
@@okog-jx3yp if I am in that sort of situation, then I'll SHARE the food. Because you said ALL other PEOPLE, meaning the food is enough to satisfy multiple people. So instead of just giving them or just keeping it for myself, I'll share it.
@gimmeyourrights8292 Good things tend to happen regardless of a higher power, and people can choose to be good based on their free will & choice. Like in 2020 with the pandemic, there is still some form of good out there when riots & vandalism occurred.
@okog-jx3yp There's like a thousand food for everybody including for yourself. Thanks for showing how selfish you really are.
This game has one of the best song ever I found out in its trailer and that is “Malabar Front - If These Trees Could Talk” definitely 💯
I LOVED playing the villian in Infamous 1. God Cole is so much more powerful and honestly if they allowed evil Cole from the first game to carry over to the beginning of the Second game he probably would have faired a much better fight againt the main protagonist. That black lighting is no joke fr.
I like to think the effects of the 2nd Ray Sphere weren't permanent, so Cole eventually lost the buff after beating Kessler.
Exactly how does being a sociopath "makes sense"?.. Evil Karma is fun but when it comes to story, Good Karma just feels more better and it worked for the Infamous comics.
Not being a sociopath per se, but the video explains that a normal man who'd been blamed for nuking the city who's now been granted with godlike power would break under those conditions.
@gimmeyourrights8292 "Godlike Superpowers" and Cole can easily be killed by water or an incoming Rocket. Besides, Cole in a way was responsible for the bombing since Kessler is Cole who started the whole thing and that Cole himself was told to do something with the package & he followed the orders which in term had caused the detonation.
theres a certain LEVEL of cruelty that "makes sense" in the way that power corrupts people and desperation makes people resort to extreme measures, so the two combined yeah its kind of within the bounds of normal to expect some people to do some awful things under those combined circumstances
not to the degree of total sociopathy but yknow
a level for sure
@CaptainPrincess Except none of that works with Infamous and it's choices.
@@Officer_Balls999 yeahbut I didnt watch the whole video
I turned off when he said "you cant tell me people would be out to help anyone but themselves" like
yes I can
I would say it would depend on the person prior to a massive pandemic event. If they were already selfless before, they'd likely be willing to keep doing so even when facing hard times, whereas obviously a more selfish person would feel more embolden now that they have powers. In the case of Cole, what little we know of him lore wise prior to the games is sparse, only suggesting that he wasn't at all heroic, but also not necessarily doing anything bad or wrong, just simply going through life in his own way. If we use the future Kessler lived through, we can assume at best that Cole was just an ordinary man, just doing what he felt necessary to get by and keep his family and loved ones safe. With the carefully orchestrated situation caused by Kessler, it pushed Cole into situations while he was at his lowest; his girlfriend blamed him for the death of her sister, his best friend was clearly on edge about him, and the people of the city were being gaslit by a random dude hijacking the airwaves to conveniently dull out info.
As for Cole's nickname, it could be argued that with Empire City now a smoldering crater and barely anybody left alive that wasn't on the boat Kuo commandeered, Bertrand was able to rile up suspicions, especially since he had been already gaslighting New Marais for years given his secret attempts to gain powers and turning people into the swamp monsters. That said, the moniker can fit with either explanations; Cole being good/bad in the original game prior to the second. On the subject of the second game, it definitely felt like Sucker Punch got a bit too concerned with keeping the plot balanced and only letting the good/evil choices affect situational moments, which may have helped avoid the usual disconnect that comes with karma choices in game sequels, but it was a shame that Cole didn't really act differently depending on his karma. Which is a shame since it was fun seeing Cole act vicious in the evil scenes of the original, or an increasingly heroic man in the good versions. The evil ending of the second game had him feel more like an anti-villain as he becomes the new Beast and marches across the world to activate all conduits suffering from the plague caused by ray field energy.
That's probably one thing I'll give a positive to with Second Son. While they clearly didn't flesh out the divergent paths enough, you at least could see Delsin acting differently depending on his karma; Good Delsin wanted to help his tribe, as well as the Conduits who he basically felt were his own people - while evil Delsin was clearly becoming power hungry and seeking to grow his arsenal of skills. Just too bad they didn't give Reggie a unique death for evil path where he berates Delsin, or at least wishes he'll find redemption.
All that said, I do wish we had gotten an Infamous game based on the evil ending of the second, showing how the world turns out in a distant future following Cole's rise as the second Beast. I can only imagine we probably would have had to take on a new character to play as since there would no way for Cole to be challenged outside of maybe some activated Conduits just being super powerful or somehow stealing power from him.
It sucks that in the infamous games you end up wasting time if you want to change your karma rank and redeem yourself because it makes it so people just end up picking blue or red rather than actually making decisions
I would say the first game makes sense to play evil straight through considering you start off a basically a nobody and get thrusted off as the one responsible for the destruction of the city. Over the course of the game from the start being perceived and treated as an enemy by everyone around you is a good motivating factor to defend you and those you care about. Even if you chose to be good the amount trust Cole would have to put in to the people of Empire is almost too high of an obstacle to overcome. The drive to do good for people around you is fine in some decisions however even at times of healing people doing an evil playthrough they'll still attack you no matter how much good you've done for them in that moment. The Betrayal from Zeke siding with Kessler would only cement that he could only truly trust himself in Empire City. At the beginning of Infamous 2 could be a starting position for good. After activating the ray sphere to attain more power and then losing it all to The Beast in the start of the game, would be enough to change his ways and understanding no matter how much power you obtain it won't be enough on it's own. Taking in the account of Trish scolding him on how he used is powers would put him over the edge. Realizing to redeem himself for all the people he lost along the way that the only way to end this is to be a good hero character and end the evil threat once and for all.
Trish was his canon event. To use a tired meme.
I find that games have to make the "evil" options cartoonish because prioritizing you and yours at the expense of others is a very human thing to do.
I add my voice to yours calling for mor Infamous. Even a remaster of the first two games would be good. But I agree with your take and it largely matches my first playthough all those years ago. while i was just a teen, I did make a selfish decision early in the game but seeing my consequences beyond just karma meter but with how the civilians interacted with me really got to me. Love that game and wish I could play it again
I've played every infamous game in every way you can and I always end up with a mixed bag when I play cole how I would be and not how he would be. I never fully reach his potential because depending on the situation I'll do the right thing or not just like any other person. I really love these games and want more of them especially of cole. They could still make infamous 3 bring cole back in my mind. The good ending in infamous 2 had the lightning strike at the end which could be him being brought back or you can end it with him as the beast and you're another conduit and you either fight cole or join him
This game was peak man i played 1&2 for the first time this year and i love them i need more
Tbh if they ever do give us a new infamous game, I'd really like if the choices were more ambiguous tbh
Instead of having to choose the Blue choice and the Red choice, if they just left it up in the air as to which is which, and some situations it's clear but others it's not. Also maybe a better system with more than 2 choices to further that level of ambiguity. Option A gives you 2 good points, option B gives you 1 good point, option c gives 2 bad points and d gives 1 bad point. And all of it is left up to your decision in that moment over simply picking a side
I have been in Coles position, and I didn’t take everything for myself. I only took what I needed and helped pass around everything else. And even when I looked through what I had and saw something I personally just didn’t like, I intentionally walked around and found someone who would like that thing in particular so that it wouldn’t go to waste.
Not everyone is selfish like that.
My jaw dropped when i saw your sub count. The quality of this video is so good
One thing I really like is how good it plays the "no one can keep me in check" card, like if you say something mean to me irl I'll ignore it cause there's nothing I can do that's worth the trouble, but put me in control of a demigod who's power is on par with an army and the slightest bit of shade coming my way will level a city block
Sure lotsa games have this sense of "power", however you are almost always limited by the story, by "being the nice guy", either the only people mean to you are the enemies or you're not allowed to touch 'civillians'
Good stories are when you can/is allowed to, but the writing is good enough to keep you from doing so, imo
We desperately need a remake of this as soon as possible. Great game, at least my opinion.
You’ve made me want to play the originals. I grew up watching my brother play them and I’ve only played second son when it came out. But now I think I’m ready to play these
They are so good. Second son is amazing but the first 2 easily outdo it
I'd say the bad karma path doesn't necessarily make more sense, since you are essentially getting framed (which doesn't mean you need to do bad to be seen as bad). Yeah you could make a point for him having a bad day after the supplies, but I don't believe he'd ever take everything.
My only real debatable point would be the first karma choice, but it could go either way looking at things. Since the Reapers just tried to do what you are then considering it would stand to reason that you wouldn't in that principle of things. But, it is the first choice, and thus the least consequential. But from your first choice, I think that would determine if you would start a hero or villain, all for which way you first lean. if you fire on the crowd and are demonized, it becomes easier to continue down that path, but if you choose not to, and not become a pariah, then you don't worry as much.
While the consequences aren't far reaching, that first choice will usually dictate your entire first playthrough.
Dude I got this game for free, FOREVER ago!! I totally forgot about. I expected it to suck cuz it was free, and this was a long time ago when that wasn’t a big thing. Holy shit was it one of the best games I’ve ever played! This brought back great memories lol
i played good karma story more often then not and sure I occasionally did some evil options but most of them were more pragmatic then not mostly because I preferred the more precise powers of good vs the more splash aoe of the outlaw powers mostly only being evil with the tar missions and semi rationalizing it as better to put the occasional civ and let them get mind controlled then get hobbled by the tar until it wore off.
and in the second game still forcibly taking ray sphere shards from people as the evil option aswell as defusing the blast shard traps mostly because it was incredibly radioactive and probably not save for someone to just be carrying around plus making cole stronger to protect people was a common sense pragmatic options.
i don’t personally think he would, intentionally make people sick from the water bc his friends need to drink water
You forgot to factor that Cole was given power in a city where the government has forced them into quarantine, rampant crime is tearing it apart and everyone is struggling. Yes, there may be reasons to be selfish when it comes to the stealing of all the supplies after beating the main gang but I doubt most people would put themselves in harms way to fight the gang oppressing the city just to be worse than them. I think it just comes down to what the player justifies what’s okay in their head when given the power Cole is given.
@@spectredeadgaming7874 My writing definitely could’ve used some adjustments before I uploaded this, but in my defense, it was my first time trying this style of video, so my wording wasn’t the best lol
I’d neglected to add in some of the lore, especially with the Post Blast comic since I didn’t know it existed at the time I’d uploaded this (which I mentioned in my inFAMOUS 2 Karma video). I’d looked at it from the view of “Cole’s situation sucks, this is how it makes some sense of why he’d do this,” but wasn’t as detailed as I thought. It was also pointed out to me that the first Karmic Moment could go either way, and likely makes more sense to go Evil after deciding to give away the food.
I see what you mean, tho, and I appreciate the feedback!
@ Great video nonetheless I enjoy the commentary!
Cole has an addiction to trish but he shoulda been with wockesha
"EVIL > GOON"
I think Future Cole Was from a Verse where he was Evil because Evil Cole Survived Infamous 2 Events
Here's the thing though all the people down there were listening to the TV reports before he was brought down the reports of him being the cause of everything blaming him for the incidents and also blaming him for all the other insane monsters I appeared there
Just saw this now and I'ma say it does make perfect sense especially during the game when you are doing a pure good karma run Trish is still laying it on you like I got mad at that because it's like "when will you forgive me lady? It wasn't my fault at ALL and here you go on and on I am saving lives doing pure good and straight being a saint and yet I am still the bad guy". So yeah up to a point Cole had to be inFamous.
I agree, I would be neutral putting things on my best interest while it can help people. But I’m taking that power up at the end everytime
We either need a remake of coles games, or an infamous 3 with todays graphics. I don’t care he’s dead in canon, I want a new one
This video popped up in everyone’s recommended I see
Dude, your video was awesome! Keep doing them!
"sigh" turns on ps3
I glad there is still love for these games
i want a 3rd cole game where we get to gain kesler's powers and devolope the powers from the second game for one final fight with cole that forever clears his name and lets the world know that he saved it
Evil Karma is fun, but Good Karma fits the story more.
Not gonna lie, if I was given power, like Cole, only to be labeled as a terrorist; a demon, and immediately got attacked by the people I would have _just_ helped seconds ago, i would of obviously defended myself, even being unnecessarily brutal, because if you fight back for a moment then back off, your attackers are going to come right back.
This is exactly how I played the game my first time lol
I wish the karmic progression was separated from the power progression and from the story progression.
I tried to max my good and evil karma in the same playthrough to see how the good and bad powers synergized, but they don't. If you're good, you get the good powers. If you're bad, you get the bad powers.
Second son evil ending was way better and way more memorable than the normie feel good garbage that we've seen 1000 times before.
Imo, i think if youre doing an evil playthrough, Cole would STILL pick the good option when given the food choice. He gives the food away to people and then when the tv jacker comes on and frames him as the bad guy, people attack you anyway, even though you JUST got food for them. Then he'd just do whatever it takes to get out, leading to starting a riot at the bridge as he cares less and less about the other people in empire city and more about himself and his close friends
Y'know what? You got a point there. I always thought of it as Cole wakes up from the coma, sees the steady decay of the city, and goes "I gotta protect my own" as his powers keep increasing, but never did think of it from the idea of attempting to do what everyone would think of as the right thing, only to get framed as the villain and crucified.
When you put it like that, the first Karmic Moment could, actually, go either way.
Cole probably doesn't need to eat anyway, he gets his nutrients from electricity.
I'm still holding out hope that they retcon Second Son and just make Infamous 3 with 2's evil ending as canon lol
So my big takeaway is that Zeke and Trish are dumb jerks that treat you like trash for something that clearly wasnt your fault and betray you. Who needs an antagonist with those two Benedict Arnolds by your side?
I think it makes the most sense for Delson