I came to this channel by chance, and now I haven't stopped watching your videos, I think they're great, excellent explanation, concrete and precise details, I'm glad there are people like you devoting their valuable time to showing us teaching us how to repower our machines, it's a Fabulous channel, hands up and subscribed, thanks for this wonderful contribution, I will be attentive to all your publications.
Glad you like them! That is high praise, thank you!! There is so much content on RUclips that it is hard to get noticed. If the opportunity arises please let others know about my channel.
This is the best explanation of the circuit that U have seen so far, between this user and Jeremy Fielding there isn't much needed information that you cant learn.
I have to thank you for this thread and the several others that pertain to doing this setup. I did this and my G0602 lathe operates flawlessly, quieter, no power loss. Had to make sleeve to mount pulley on to the motor shaft, which was done before tear down. Anyhow, thank you for all this information. It is like having a whole new lathe and cutting 1/4 inch of 20 tpi threads is so much easier with the slow speed.
You are very welcome!! My results were the same as yours. This is the single best upgrade I have done to my machines... and I have done a lot of upgrades.
Thanks for investing considerable time to help us improve our power tools, Daze. I've watched all your videos several times and have now converted my lathe and a friends lathe to variable speed. One thing you never talk about (unless I missed it) is the motor pulley. My motors both came with a six groove short Poly-V drive belt and a 1.5" Poly-V motor pulley . The diameter of the motor shaft is 17 mm which equates to 1.5 mm larger than a standard 5/8" V-groove pulley (The outside of the motor shaft is threaded smaller for the flywheel). I couldn't find a 17 mm bore V-groove pulley anywhere on earth so I ran the motor on the bench and used a file to turn the 17 mm motor shaft diameter down to 15.5 mm (5/8") for a standard pulley. Then the existing lathe V-groove belt works, albeit with a small vibration. I read that a notched V-groove belt will run smoother that a standard V-groove pulley. Is that what you use? Then there's the option of running a Link-Belt that apparently runs smooth but with some squeal? Do you have experience with Link-belts? It sounds like they don't work well in reverse? The lathe would likely run smoother with a Poly-V drive system and I finally found a supplier that would sell a 17 mm bore 2" Poly-V pulley for the motor, a 7/8" bore 3" Poly-V pulley for the headstock shaft and a 44" belt (8 groove). Those three items came to over $200. But "after" motor installation I did cut a square around the Poly-V pulley on the flywheel to separate it and turned it round with a file (same procedure as the motor shaft above) and that 1.5" pulley would now work for a motor shaft Poly-V drive pulley. I'm wondering how you managed this drive problem on your seven motors? Just a matter of interest, I used the MC-60 PCB for controlling both motors along with your pot center tap switch to bypass slow-start. My lathe now turns at 30 RPM up to about 2500 RPM - perfect. My $5 reverse switch is on order from China and my $18 tachometer just arrived. I've built a new quick release banjo, five tool rests, a hand crank handle for the quill and an oak 3" diameter hand crank for the external headstock shaft (just screwed it on after drilling a hole). Along with a new tailstock live center and a newly built Vari-grind and Wolverine sharpening system, my $67 Rockwell Beaver lathe (bought in the 70's) should now be shoulder to shoulder with a $6000 Powermatic. It brightens the room upon entry and any wood turner can feel the love. : ) Thanks so much for helping us all. Your knowledge and explanations are superior. Salute - Garson
I am just using standard V-groove pulleys on my machines. It is not that I think they are better or that I have any specific preference, its just that is what my machine came with and what I can easily get at the local hardware store. As to mounting the pulleys to the treadmill motor, that is a good idea for a short video. When I put the treadmill motor on my lathe the motor I used had a keyway and it was smaller than the pulley that came with my lathe so I machined a sleeve, cut a groove in said sleeve and than made a taller key to fit in the shaft, pass through the sleeve and fit up into the pullet keyway. On my mill the flywheel was a thread on and I wanted the mass of the flywheel so removed the flywheel from the motor, chucked it up in the lathe and turned the pulley snout down until it was smooth. I then opened up the bore on an aluminum pulley set I had and pressed it on to the flywheel. On my mill there is no need to run in reverse so I was not worried about a thread on system. Glad my videos have been a help. If you have more questions OR if I failed to answer these questions, please don't hesitate to reach out.
You are correct. The treadmill motor has a 17mm shaft. To mate your pulley to your 17mm treadmill motor shaft buy a 17mm chucking reamer (ebay, they are cheap) drill the pulley to just under 17mm on your drill press. (I forgot what the fractional english size is but its easy to measure with calipers). Bore the drilled hole out to 17mm with your new chucking reamer (it works like a drill bit). Reamer is more accurate than a drill but you could just drill on your press with a 17 mm drill. Its better and more accurate to do this on a lathe but I'm assuming you don't have one.
Thanks a million for your lengthily response ,,, I will watch out for a micro at the curb ,,, FYI there is a part inside those things containing some really poisonous stuff ,,, beryllium I believe ,,, again thanks
it's the magneto that is toxic, but as long as the ceramic part containing the chemical is not damaged there is no issue. The bigger thing to watch out for is the capacitor it can kill you outright.
One thing that may confuse or mislead people..... SCR based power supplies put out a pulsing DC voltage. No diode bridge needed. A TRIAC based circuit puts out AC voltage and this is where a diode bridge is needed. Also, strongly recommend any filtering devices (chokes, capacitors, etc) be placed immediately before the motor. After all it is the motor that needs the filtering not the bridge. Transformers can be used as chokes, simply use either the primary or secondary winding, not both. The transformer winding used has to have enough current capacity just like a choke would. I'm a retired electronics tech....
You may be a retired electronics technician but you are completely incorrect. The voltage coming out of an SCR is NOT DC. It is pulsed AC and the rectifier IS required every time! I have measured the AC with my meter and ALL the aftermarket SCR power supplies available are labeled AC in AC out. This is not to say you can not have an AC to DC SCR type power supply but it’s not a function of the SCR component that makes the power coming out DC. The MC 60 is an SCR type power supply and the voltage coming out of it is in fact DC. But that is because it has rectifying components on board. An SCR chip is designed to only work on AC and it has no other components with in it that convert AC to DC. Unless it is a specifically built DC power supply an SCR voltage controller will require a rectifier EVERY TIME. As to placement of the chokes close to the motor that is a true statement EXCEPT the type of choke/inductor I use after the SCR but before the rectifier is more effective with AC current than DC current so it is used as the very last component before the AC is converted to DC at the rectifier.
So, this is awkward..... Retired guy is actually completely correct. You see, the R in SCR stands for rectifier. Here's the homework, from a textbook standpoint anyways.... A Silicon Controlled Rectifier (SCR) produces a direct current (DC) output when connected to an alternating current (AC) input. This is because an SCR is a unidirectional device that only allows current to flow in one direction, rectifying the AC input. A single SCR produces a pulsating DC output from an input AC waveform. More than one SCR can produce a pulsating DC output or pulsating AC output. Taken from a a few Google search results.....
Nothing awkward at all because in this case a rectifier IS STILL REQUIRED. The two of you are taking a general concept of what an SCR chip is and applying it to an entire power supply that is configured to work in a specific way, AC to AC. It is FORE SURE not DC coming out of these boxes. The wiring instructions call the output hot and neutral (AC labeling), not + and - (DC labeling). I have put a meter on it and the output is AC not DC. Also looking at your own cut and paste, take a look at the last half of the sentence after the OR "More than one SCR can produce a pulsating DC output or pulsating AC output." All the units available on Amazon or eBay produce a pulsing AC output, that is what the power supply is designed to do, reduce AC voltage. I appreciate both you and @LouinVB trying to point out an error, but in this case it is not in error as the specific product being used is AC to AC and I don't want these comments to lead someone to think they don't need the bridge rectifier because if they try to run this box without a bridge rectifier they will burn up their DC motor with AC current.
@LouinVB I apologize for arguing with you. I knew for a fact that the power supplies I was using were called SCR by the manufacturers and were in fact AC to AC not even thinking about the component SCR and how it works. Upon further research I saw my error and have made another video going over the fact that at least one of them is indeed a triac and not an SCR. Thank you for the comment. ruclips.net/video/khyTt_fE0zI/видео.html
@@jarredmattingly5369 Thank you for making this comment it encouraged me to look further into what type of power supply this units actually are and even though labeled as an SCR by the manufacturer they are in fact Triac based. I'm always learning and I appreciate your comment. ruclips.net/video/khyTt_fE0zI/видео.html
Having played around with these things a bit, I have found that people do a garage clear out and sell 3 phase induction motors often for next to nothing (just like treadmills). Check the regular places and you’ll have one in a couple of weeks. I purchased a VFD from China for about a hundred so i can control motor speed and run on single phase. Just way smoother and doesn’t slow down so much when under load compared to the DC motor with SCR. And Super easy to wire up. The superior choice imo.
VFD is the way to go to have the best and yes if you can get the motor cheap that is a good option, but in my area there are not motors like that for sale.
@@dazecars In NZ where I am there are dozens of Fisher and Paykal washing machines (with drum motors inside) that get scrapped weekly at my local recycling. I mounted one directly to my 14" band saw and thought the VFD would drive it just fine. The torque is huge (from a crawl to 10,000rpm) and would have been great but unfortunately not compatible with the power supply. The motor windings got hot so I had to abandon mission. I am yet to make a brushless DC Arduino motor controller for drum motors to learn more about this but have been too busy to get back to it. China is very cagey about it and don't sell controllers for line voltage drum motors. The closest you get is an ebike hub motor (also a drum motor) and controller. Possibly also not a bad idea. Certainly cheap enough.
Hey Waynos Waynos, Wouldn’t mind making contact with regard to your journey’s. I’m in Chch and trying to figure out a cheap motor/ Vfd combo. Have treadmill motor in mind and curious about china vfd’s Cheers Chris
Yea, until you look for them. Then either nobody has them or they want an arm and a leg. These days, if something is 10 years old or more, they call it “vintage” and charge a premium. But yea, ya gotta keep your eyes open and be patient.
Hey dude, Really cool video and almost understandable for an electrically challenged brain like mine. I’m not too keen on spending $3-400 for a motor and then $5-700 on a Vfd 😫 Thanks so much
I too use a thread mill motor as well and I found out that if I use the motor alone without the flywheel it comes with I get that bogging down when force is applied, but if I keep the flywheel on the motor I get a lot less...
It is likely that your motor is undersized and/or you do not have it geared down properly. The motor on my lathe does not have the flywheel and I single point thread at 100 RPMS in a grade 8 bolt all the time, very high tool pressures and motor load. It not an issue and there is no bogging because its a big motor and I have 3.5:1 gearing
I'm ready to now use a free treadmill motor on my vintage 1947 Walker Turner wood lathe such as your video and your online directions suggest. Thanx for all you time.
@@gregritchie1758 With the DC choke bigger is better. The bigger the choke, the biger the field created and the beter job it does. As for finding one, a lot of treadmills come with a choke. To find one used go to eBay and search “treadmill motor choke” BUT know that most people on eBay don’t know what they have and the word transformer will also appear in the listing. Problem is a choke and a transformer look almost identical so some listings are for transformers and some are fore chokes because the sellers think they are interchangeable. They are not. To tell the difference count the wires. A choke will only have 2, a transformer will have 3 or more.
This is a nice video. You did a nice job and the video is interesting and you keep to the point. My treadmill motor is typical and pulls 14 amp. A 14 amp Hammond choke costs $157 at mouser electronics. Your voltage controller is $27 on Amazon not $20, The big rectifier is $13, The dpdt switch I admit I'm guessing is most likely $5, and the capacitor is maybe $5. The scr in the circuit will surge at low power levels even with the choke and capacitor. A cheaper better performing circuit is to buy a 20 amp variac on ebay for $61, capacitor $5, recitifier $13. The ebay variac already has the switch and a variac circuit does not need the expensive choke and only needs two other parts namely a rectifier and and a capacitor to work and actually will work without the capacitor well. The variac circuit is more robust and will work better than your circuit with the high parts count. I guess I should make a youtube video.
I want to respond to this a little more in depth, not being argumentative just working it through. Yes your prices are accurate but they do not reflect used parts. I have several motor chokes sitting on the shelf that came in treadmills I got for free. Not all treadmills come with them but they can be had used on eBay in the $25.00 range. A quality SCR like the one I show in the video will not surge at low RPM. I use mine at the lowest RPM on my lathe all the time and it is smooth as silk. The cheeper one that everyone seams to be using (long skinny) will surge at lower RPMS. That’s why I show it doing just that in the video to show that not all SCR voltage controllers are created equally. I even purchased the other one that is commonly available with the digital readout and push button speed control and it too was free of the low speed surging but my torque dropped significantly making it the worst of the three. There is a huge difference between a quality SCR controller and the cheap ones. Depending on what comes in your treadmill and what you can get used a person can easily set up an SCR controller in the $50-$100 range. With all that said I am intrigued by the transformer you have shared info on and have ordered one. I will set it up on the bench and see how it performs, compare it to the SCR, and maybe even the PWM Mc-2100. One of my future projects is to build a small motor dyno. That way I can test all these power supplies. A lot of people don't realize that torque on a DC motor has a direct relation to amps being supplied by the power supply, and amps can drop at lower voltages but with a dyno I can do proper testing and compare all these power supplies. I really appreciate your comment and am looking forward to testing the variable transformer you recommend. I am also glad you like my videos.
@@dazecars I didn't know these SCR controllers existed. I bought two of them to play with. I am an electronics hobbyist. I most likely have a suitable choke somewhere in one of my junk boxes. I want to build your circuit this weekend and play with it. I'm converting a friends bandsaw to variable speed with a reduction pulley system so his wood cutting bandsaw can cut metal.
@@dwtees "hobbyist" that describes me as well. The biggest advantage to the SCR besides simplicity is the ability to have a fine and course speed control. I can dial in my speed within in a couple RPMS. I am looking forward to trying the variac. After your original post I have been researching them and the power is very clean so I am predicting it will work well other then limited numbers of speeds.
Hi, is there preferred specs for either of the chokes/inductors? I am looking to order the parts, Amazon currently does not have available the specific SCR the you have listed, is there another model you recommend? Thanks.
Not being an electrical engineer I do not have any specs or calculations for you on the motor choke. What I can do however is offer you some guidelines. First of all bigger is better. I have several motor chokes ranging from the size of a tennis ball to the size of a soft ball and the bigger they are the better they work. Second the wire for the choke needs to be a minimum of 16 awg. If the wire is not that big or better it will not have the amperage capacity to allow the motor to work properly. Amperage is the most important spec. A lot of the chokes available online are rated in mA. there are 1000 mA in an amp. Treadmill motors are rated in amps so most chokes available online are several hundred times too small. Third they are not available on Amazon at least not inexpensively, there are a few privet sellers on Amazon selling used parts for big bucks but the available chokes on amazon are too small because they are not designed for a motor even though they look correct in the picture they are WAY too small. The choke in most of my videos is part number 130993. Instead of getting one new I would get a used one. A lot of treadmills come with a choke. Go to eBay and search “treadmill motor choke” BUT know that most people on eBay don’t know what they have and the word “transformer" will also appear in most listings. Problem is a choke and a transformer look almost identical so some listings are for transformers and some are fore chokes because the sellers think they are interchangeable. They are not. They would only be interchangeable if you modify a transformer to work as a choke. (see my DIY choke video) To tell the difference count the wires. A choke will only have 2 wires, a transformer will have 3 or more. Also before I started doing videos chokes on eBay could be had for $25 or less shipped but now that more people are looking for them (due to my videos) the eBay sellers have raised their prices quite a bit. here is an Amazon link for the power supply. thank for pointing out that the other link was currently unavailable. amzn.to/48emkOh Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
I've been running a treadmill motor on my lathe for about 3 years now. And it just burned up last week. I was wondering if you would be willing to make a video showing the actual wiring all tied together. Could even be one of those shorts. From the wall to the tool complete.
good instruction video,,, easy to listen to ,, my question is what would be the specs for a large DC and AC choke please ,,, the motor is 130 vdc max and 3170 watts ,,, this choke would be used in conjunction with the items listed in the SCR wiring diagram ,,, thanks a million in advance
Not being an electrical engineer I do not have any specs for you, what I can do however is offer you some guide lines. First of all bigger is better. I have several motor chokes ranging from the size of a tennis ball to the size of a soft ball and the bigger they are the better they work. Second the wire for the choke needs to be a minimum of 16awg. If it is not that big or better it will not have the amperage capacity to allow the motor to work properly. Third they are not available on Amazon at least not inexpensively, there are a few privet sellers on Amazon selling used parts for big bucks. The choke in most of my videos is part number 130993. Instead of getting one new I would get a used one. A lot of treadmills come with a choke. Go to eBay and search “treadmill motor choke” BUT know that most people on eBay don’t know what they have and the word “transformer" will also appear in most listings. Problem is a choke and a transformer look almost identical so some listings are for transformers and some are fore chokes because the sellers think they are interchangeable. They are not. They would only be interchangeable if you modify a transformer to work as a choke. (see my DIY choke video) To tell the difference count the wires. A choke will only have 2, a transformer will have 3 or more. Also before I started doing videos chokes on eBay could be had for $25 or less shipped but now that more people are looking for them (due to my videos) the eBay sellers have raised their prices quite a bit. Your best bet might be the DIY option out of a Microwave transformer. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Going to use TM motor for honey extractor, i.e. centrifuge out honey from frames. What's the cheaper SCR that's mentioned with your bandsaw? Seems good enough for my application. Any other advice for my application? Thx. Great resource!
My advice would not be to get the cheaper SCR. It has cheaper components, has no cooling fan and the motor simply doesn't run as well. But if you insist on getting it this would be the link amzn.to/3YA3rSP its about 1/2 the price and easily 1/2 the quality. For $15 more the other one is so much better.
Truly appreciate your video, great job. Thank you !!! Is it possible to send or post the exact part numbers of the parts you purchased to assemble in your circuit ? That would just the greatest !!! Thank you in advance, Scott
Most of the parts are linked in the description The AC inductor can easily be made by getting ferrite doughnut and wrapping some wire around it. The choke in most of my videos is part number 130993. Instead of getting one new I would get a used one. A lot of treadmills come with a choke. Go to eBay and search “treadmill motor choke” BUT know that most people on eBay don’t know what they have and the word transformer will also appear in most listings. Problem is a choke and a transformer look almost identical so some listings are for transformers and some are fore chokes because the sellers think they are interchangeable. They are not. They would only be interchangeable if you modify a transformer to work as a choke. (see my DIY choke video) To tell the difference between a choke and transformer count the wires. A choke will only have 2, a transformer will have 3 or more. I would also recommend watching my most recent video. Its a little long but brakes down the pros and cons of the the 3 most common DIY treadmill motor power supply options ruclips.net/video/AdGypyO_UuM/видео.html Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
You don't put a capacitor on the rectified current? I'm interested in seeing what the result is if you smooth it out. Also, I don't think you were clear about what causes the band saw to bog down when applying load - is it the cheaper SCR to blame? Thanks for the info here - I've messed around with this a lot and didn't get results like you, but I think now it's because I didn't have the chokes. Probably why you don't have blue sparks jetting out the back of your motor. :D
Originally I ran a DC capacitor in parallel with the motor after the rectifier. And while it did help clothe power I found a surging load. Not all SCRs are created equally you must get the good one and a choke is IMHA required every time.
I have everything but the dc choke. I don’t know what to get. Also, what capacitor do I need and how do I wire it in? Thanks. Trying to follow and build your system. Oh, how do I get an rpm display with this, what type and where does it hook in? Paul
These videos should help, let me know if you have any other question Capacitor info ruclips.net/video/PDU59Tns_E0/видео.html Choke info ruclips.net/video/WRT_Ri18eLY/видео.html ruclips.net/video/sYjkQvUSths/видео.html RPM display info ruclips.net/video/MmRMNo9IbVU/видео.html
I had built a controller for a treadmill motor that I was using on my pedestal drill. I had used the cheaper SCR controller that you show in your video and I had a lot of trouble with a lack of torque at lower speeds, using hole, saws and spade, bits, etc. I came across your video on building, a quality speed controller for a treadmill motor and thought great, This is gonna fix my problem. I followed your instructions, bought the better SCR controller and although the speed controller works the same problem exists with a lack of torque. Is there a solution to this?
Hi. Great video. Did you ever try to use Solid state module like fotek ssr-40 VA for example instead of scr. Do you think that would be a good idea. Thanks
I could be mistaken but it is my understanding that that is just a relay and does nothing to very voltage. The voltage ranges it shows are operating ranges not any voltage conversation. The voltage that goes in is what will come out.
Saw this on Amazon. Is this any better or worst then the SCR you are recommending? weideer 7-80V PWM DC Motor Speed Controller Switch 30A Control 12V 24V 36V 48V
i saw in your other video about the size of potentiometer you recommend was a 15k in series with a 135K. the KB-225 motor controler uses a 5K potentiometer. what am I missing?
hey, got a question about the bridge rectifier. i ordered the large one you use. the connectors needed for this thing are huge. what size connectors do you use going from say, 14awg wire to that size connectors. do you solder the wire to them? thanks in advance
Good afternoon I am wondering whether this diagram can work on a single phase 230v induction motor to vary the speed. The VFC is the ideal converter for this case but it is costly. I will appreciate your advice/comments
Absolutely not!! A single phase 230V induction motor is AC and this setup is for DC. You may think you could eliminate the rectifier so that it is AC to AC but it will still not work. Using just an SCR the motor will slow but it will loose torque and it will not run well, to make maters worse prolonged use will damage the motor.
Just subbed, have one with the buttons right now. Will build a new box. Save this one for a spare. On my Shopsmith, 2 bandsaws, one resaw, one templates and bodies. Just got it running in the remodeled shop. Good info, come visit sometime. How do you figure the ohms for the potentiometer? Like the using 2 for adjustment fast. The button one does work, but bogging is an issue. I am adding circuit breakers or fuses, need to decide on load for them. My machine ate a 3 wire scr, due to a shorted rectifier. Then well I missed it, burned up another. Sounded like a bad welder, lol Wish the camera were on for it. Lol Thanks my Brother, later Spike
To calibrate what potentiometer you need you must have everything installed on the machine that is getting the treadmill motor and then follow the procedure in this video ruclips.net/video/04d0u1RJyXw/видео.html Also bogging is something more common with cheaper SCRs. The most common one that you see in RUclips videos is long and skinny and has the knob on one end. It is prone to bogging at lower RPM. The SCR I recomend is more expensive but a much better unit and my lathe runs well at low RPMS even under load. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Can you set the DC output to 20v and then use the PSU to energize a power tool? I would love to use the SCR based PSU to power my power hungry “18V” power tools. I have an 18V table saw, rotary hammer, and cut off saw, that having a high amperage 20V DC PSU would be needed. I think you have you have talked about it before but if you put this PSU under load does the voltage drop? An aside question is how many amps are you pulling from the 120V/240V AC outlet/breaker going into the SCR PSU?
Sorry I did not get back to you sooner. The SCR would not be my first choice for what you are wanting to do. If it failed it might over power your tools and burn them up, not to mention the adjustability might get adjusted causing damage. A better solution would be to get a 120 to 20 V transformer and then use a bridge rectifier to convert the 20V AC to 20V DC. The voltage would be constant and a transformer could be selected with the correct amperage output. To answer your other questions my SCR setup is drawing around 15 amps from the wall. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Do you have a supplier for large DC Choke? Also how many turns on the ac ferrite choke. Finally any info on the resister/ capacitor? Thanks for your help.
eBay. search “treadmill motor choke” but know that most sellers don’t know the difference between a choke and a transformer because the look the same but are not interchangeable . a choke has 2 wires a transformer will have 3 or more. for the ac side 7 turns of each wire is standard. the RC circuit is not needed.
Sounds like you got the long skinny less expensive SCR that everyone else on RUclips recommends instead of the higher end one with the cooling fan that I recommend.
I bought 3 SCRs from Amazon ( yours recommended link) and after connecting the 110v input I measured only 110v output , turning potenciometer didn't made a difference. Am I so "lucky " getting a defected once or am I making some mistakes?
That is because it's not under a load. Because of the on off switching action of an SCR it will measure at full volts without something to draw it down attached.
I know this is kind of an old video but some months ago I followed the instructions presented here to build my power supply for my treadmill motor and it seems to work really good! However I can't help but wonder about that capacitor shown along with the collection of parts used for this setup, there's no mention of it so I was wondering if it's not needed or could it offer some advantages if used? The choke is of course used here to smooth out the power but since that's also the purpose of a capacitor would adding one be helpful in any way or would it simply be a waste of time and materials?
I get this question about once a day and need to make a video on it. I ran them on my machines when I first set them up but it caused two issues, the first is it took a little longer for the motor to stop spinning after turned off. The second issue was surging under a load at low RPMS so I removed them.
@@dazecars Thanks, now I know! As I said my setup seems to be working quite well with very little brush sparking but I couldn't help but wonder about that capacitor in the video and if it would make the supply even better. OK I will just leave it as it is, thanks a bunch you saved me a lot of money since I needed less than forty dollars in parts (using what I salvaged from the treadmill) and I am quite happy with the results! Thanks again and I really like your vids!
It could work but I see a few red flags. First you still need a DC power supply big enough to power the motor and it need to put out the max voltage that unit can handle which is 55V. Said power supply also needs to be high amp 15-25 as that is the amp range of these motors. Then there is the second issue that PWM has, at a max of 55V you will not get your treadmill speed up, much past half.
need help with the wiring of the bridge rectifier like the on you have . Is the ac going to the positive and the negative on the same side of the rectifier or does it go cati corner .
The rectifier should be clearly labeled the sideways S is AC the + and - are DC. Be carful hooking it up incorrectly can cause all kinds of problems/dangers.
Different sized pulleys and a belt are the best way to go. A drill gearbox will not be able to handle the RPMs that treadmill motors go to, most are 4000-7000
I just use the ones out of treadmills I have parted out, and there are not any specs on them. I have 4 different sizes from the size of a racketball all the way up to a softball and they all work about the same. If you are looking at a new one you want one that is rated at the amps of your motor. If it is rated in watts take the amps X the volts from the motor and that will give you watts. For used ones eBay is probably your best place to get one. Search "Treadmill Choke". Be warned however that a lot of eBay sellers do not know if they have a choke or a transformer AND because they look the same think they are interchangeable but they are not. Easy way to know the difference is a choke will have 2 wires, but a transformer will have 4 or more.
Have played with both options of using the original treadmill controller and the SCR one. Have also found differences on low speed control that may be explained bay a bigclive breakdown here ruclips.net/video/_4PwYm_7HKg/видео.html. I have found the controller I have that has that diode bridge on it is the one that give better low speed control. Unfortunately you cannot always find out before buys what the actual circuit is. Also congrats for being the first video I have seen that doesn't just throw out the caps and chokes from the original. A minor thing (and I am just guessing here) but I suspect the ferrite is more about suppressing the radio frequency interference noise created by the high voltage switching. Another key advantage of some of the PWM native controllers is that they can maintain speed under load if you keep the optical pickup on, although it can be a bit hit and miss to get it running
thanks for the feedback. the chokes are critical, the caps, not as much. a cap is fantastic when properly calibrated to the system but that takes more knowledge then I have. I did find improvement on the bench but under a load I was having some surging issues so I removed them. the power is not as clean but the system runs better under a load. check out my most recent video I compare an MC-2100 to an SCR in a VS shootout.
not really. Can you yes but it will effect torque and it is hard on the motor. AC motors are designed to work a very specific operating voltage. When you change that it drastically effects function. The correct and really only way to very the speed on an AC motor is to use a VFD
Even though there is way more of them than there is of me I try to respond in a timely manner to ALL the people that took the time to make a comment or ask a question..
I did. That info is more technical than the scope of this video but the web page I created (and talk about in the beginning of the video) covers how I chose a pot and using a resister to set max speed. dazecars.com/dazed/variable.html
Blessings bro just got a 240v 3hp out rotor dc motor would appreciate a little help understanding the motor and actually powering it up any help will be much appreciated
It doesn’t work that way. When a rectifier fails it shorts out, effectively connecting the two wires together coming out of the power supply. This can burn up the power supply. Electricity takes the path of least resistance so all current will be flowing through the short and no power will be getting to the motor. When a bride rectifier fails at best you will trip the AC circuit breaker, at worst you will fry the power supply. That is why I recommend a circuit breaker or fuse between the rectifier and the power supply. Please let me know if you have any further questions.
@@dazecars thanks for the clarification. I thought the motor was getting ac power but it's the power supply that is vulnerable. By the way this was the best controller video I have seen and I've seen a lot
@@champspec When scrapping FREE treadmills you don't get to choose "good ones" 😂😂. I have scrapped about 15 and roughly half were of higher quality. I use the smaller motors in my videos because they are smaller, lighter, and easier to move around and show on the videos, but the ones I am using on my machines are a lot larger and far superior quality.
The AC choke is easy, it is simply a ferrite doughnut with both AC leads wrapped around said doughnut about 6-7 times. A lot of electronic devices use them and they can be scavenged from lots of things. The DC choke can be gotten off eBay. Search treadmill choke HOWEVER because transformers and chokes look similar and because of that a lot of eBay sellers list them interchangeably and they are NOT Easiest way to know if it is a DC choke is it will only have 2 wires. a transformer will often have 4-8 wires but never only 2
I've bought everything that you showed in the video my problem is I don't know how to put it together please make video or send me a diagram if possible@@dazecars the sooner the better I really would appreciate thank you
@@chino44m63 I am still planning to do a video but in the meantime I have uploaded a diagram to my web page on the subject. dazecars.com "tech articles" then "varriable speed shop tools"
Nice video, but... So what happens if you don't buy the "quality" SCR controller. I bought one of the "other" ones. I hook it up to the same treadmill motor that you show in your set-up but mine does NOT work smoothly. It pulses very annoyingly. If you really want to help us out do a troubleshoot video about what is actually going on, why these controllers might not work magically like you show in your video, and especially what to do to correct the pulsing. I bought 2 controllers on Amazon and both do the exact same pulsing thing, not just at low rpm but at whatever speed I set the pot at. BTW I have successfully converted multiple tools (drill press, metal lathe, wood lathe, sander) but this time I am frustrated because things are not working and I don't know why. I have tried the controllers on other treadmill motors and its the same. Anyway, help would be appreciated. I can't be the only one who has problems.
In theory yes, but often times, no. A lot of treadmills in the free-$50 range are that price because they are not working correctly, usually a bad control board. Even if the treadmill is working some of them can not be used without using the treadmill control panel which is cumbersome and not user friendly for shop tools. There are some treadmill control boards that do work and can be easily wired with a potentiometer or “hacked” with a PWM (I have a different video on that) but if that is not an option a power supply like the one I show in this video is a good alternative.
It’s not as simple as yes or no. Can you plug it it? Yes. Can you mount it in the same place? maybe. Will your controller have enough amp output? Maybe. Also HP numbers are like calories per serving on nutrition information. Just because it’s more HP doesn’t mean it is the better motor.
The chokes are the most important part. After lots of use I found that the power was clean enough after the chokes that the RC circuit was redundent and not really needed.
@@dazecars Hi, thank you for that, but do you know where i can get the details of the smooting capacitor and resistor. The reason is i got a choke of an old power supply and i am not sure if the choke is adequate thatis why i would like to add the capacitor and resistor. Regards J
With chokes, the general rule is bigger is better, because the bigger the ferrite core the bigger the magnetic field and the more windings of wire in said field. So as long as it has good size you should be fine. As to the RC circuit I got mine out of existing control boards from treadmills that were not usable without the treadmill control panel, I don't have any other specs than that. Capacitor size is a calculation of motor size and power supply output. I was able to use ones off of treadmills that had similar motors to what I was using the circuit on. I know there is a calculation to figure out capacitor size but I am not sure what it is. The resistor is just there to dissipate the charge out of the capacitor when the system is off. Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.
Do you have an e-mail address where I could possibly communicate with you. Without broadcasting my ignorance all over the internet? Lol I searched your web page and didn't see one. One question I have is. I have a mc 2100. And I have a quality scr mc. Which of the two would you recommend? I am not a fan of the soft start.
Nah, PWM is the way to go. Today's semiconductors with good heat dissipation mitigates all the issues you mentioned. It's why welders today are a lot smaller and run cooler than in the past. When you compare the waveforms, PWMs deliver a cleaner and more uniform torque/speed.
Thanks for the comment. I 100% agree that a good PWM power suply is better than SCR controller but a good PMW is also expensive, $200 + for one with the amp and volt requirements of a treadmill motor at max. Most of the treadmills come with a PWM board but in my experience they don't work as well as a properly set up SCR units. So if you spend the money, a good PMW will out perform an SCR but most people using treadmill parts are trying to balance quality with price at which point an SCR unit is far more budget friendly and (if you do the things in my vidio to clean the power) can be set up to run very well providing the best performance to cost ratio. IMHO
@@dazecars You can buy a 90V pwm "speed governor" for less than 20 bucks on Amazon. At the lowest voltage, the torque is low, but you can gear it up to overcome it.
@@bobweiram6321 A lot of people running treadmill motors run them BECAUSE they can lower the speed and anything that looses torque at lower RPMS is counter productive. Would love a link for this PMW that is only $20. All the ones I have seen are not really up to the task
@@dazecars PWMs lose torque only at the lowest range due to its back EMF sensing circuit. If the EMF combined with the impedance of the motor is below a certain range, the circuitry fails to dump more power. Once you get past the low range, the torque curve stabilizes and flatlines, which is the constant torque. A slightly more expensive PWM controller has better sensing and can adjust the power to maintain a constant current or torque even at the lowest speed. It's not an important detail since 1 to 5 RPM is used much and if you do need it, then gearing it will give you constant current at those speeds. SCRs, on the other hand, only give you maximum torque at their full speed and rapidly drop off for anything lower. You're essentially controlling the phase angle. Here's the link for the controller. The price has gone up since I last checked. There's better ones out there, but I cannot vouch for them. www.amazon.com/dp/B07RLFZM2V?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_PC75RYT25GJDM69ATN8Y
With an SCR the torque at low RPM is fantastic ( I do single point threading in grade 8 bolts all the time and my lowest RPM setting) even if you are correct and it is only max torque at max RPMs it is still nearly max torque at the lowest RPMs so the drop off in minimal. I mean no disrespect but your PWM is a terrible choice. It is no wonder you are loosing torque. That is a 5 amp PMW and most of these motors are 15 amps or more. Torque is a product of amperage as the number of amps flowing through the coil determines the strength of the electro magnet inside the motor. At only 5 amps you will loose torque at ALL RPMs. I am not 100% sure but I don't believe the relation from amps to torque is linear so with your 5 amps it is probably better than 1/3 max torque. But you are probably loosing at least half the torque your motor is capable of. And if it is linear than you would be loosing 2/3. A higher amp PWM will cost you several hundred dollars. You are correct that a QUALITY PWM will out perform an SCR. But the one you have linked is not up to the task. The only budget friendly way to run a treadmill motor and not loose torque is to run the treadmill board or an SCR. Your premise that your PWM is better simply because it’s a PWM is like saying a 250 cubic inch V8 is better than a 400 cubic inch in line 6 just because it’s a v8 but the 400 will out perform the 250 in EVERY category just as a quality SCR will out perform your PWM in EVERY category.
PWM doesn’t need to be expensive, not when you build your own controller. And they provide more low-end torque than an SCR in my experience. I haven’t messed with treadmill motor voltages in a while, but I’ve got a really nice motor on the shelf that’s been waiting for a home. Probably time I dig it out and wake it up.
A pore quality SCR will not function as well as a PWM and yes the motor will slow under load ( your observation of less torque). But a quality SCR will function as well as a PWM supply.
I'm wondering if I could use 120v AC motor running a car alternator to charge a car battery to then run a treadmill motor so as to avoid all these pros and cons of motor controllers. Why is it so complicated? How does Elon musk control his DC motor in his cars?
that would only work if you wanted one speed and not very fast. It is volts that changes speed. A 12 V battery will only give you the speed the motor turns at 12V. The complication is not converting AC to DC, that part is easy. The complication is in changing the voltage so you can change the speed.
I am sorry to do this but I must: Read on: If this will cause to delete my comment and further be blocked, I simply interpret that as it did its job. These import chinese so called adjustable voltage, variable voltage or whatever terminlogy is used for it, just know this. In actual defintion they are what is called phase controllers, that is CHEAP PHASE CONTROLLERS. But phase controllers for what? There are only two ways to change voltage in AC motors. One is by what is called phase control and the other is variable frequency drive. You hear the term VFD lingo. Now read on. Phase controllers do not work on induction motors. That is not what is meant by AC motors. When they say AC motors, it means universal motors, you know the brushed motors like your power tools if you know what I mean. They also work as light dimmers. And that is it. But anything works on those universal motors, you don't need this nonsense to control their speed unless you have an old old vintage one that was made back in the days and you just can't wait to control their awe inspiring speed. Now if you think you can just install a bridge rectifier (any kind of it) and a choke and a capacitor or whatever on these to run a heavy duty Magnetic DC motors you will be in for a rude awakening. You are basically running your Treadmill motor on a cheap messed up half ass supply that is neither AC nor real DC. Trust me. When you convert your AC to DC with a bridge rectifier, what you don't get is the science of it. First of all as you know your AC flactuates up and down and also back and forth. It has two movement. Well guess what, so does your bridge rectifier, it transfers the up and down fully intact, just removes the back and forth. If you think a capacitor smooth things out, guess what, it doesn't. In fact it raises the voltage higher. Just remember you and I and all these folks didn't finish a degree in electricity. I know and there are billions of us out there. Your motor takes on a beating like it is nobody's business. If you want to destroy your motor, there are cheaper and faster ways to do it. And by the way that potentiometer turning knob job has little meaning with respect to this. These high torque heavy duty motors will impose their need on current and them little turning knob job and the triac and diac and quadrac by themselves is just kids play to it. These things are called light dimmers for a reason. And by the way this word "light" in light dimmer does not refer to any other light but old obsolete incandecent light bulbs. You hear that? You get that? Suit yourself. Now you think about that. ( No you won't hear this kind of truth just to get attention and clicks)
You are not correct, at least not correct as it pertains to my video. An SCR voltage controller does the same thing that a PWM does only for AC. It switches on and off quickly to effectively reduce voltage. You are correct that this technique does not work well for most AC application except things like lights just as you said, but when you convert it to DC with a rectifier it is true DC. That is how a rectifier works. When DC is converted to AC it is not tru AC BUT in reverse it is 100% true DC. That is what every power supply in your house does. You are also correct that when improperly set up SCR controllers will create power spikes, but that is what the chokes are for. The AC choke between SCR and rectifier eliminates low frequency spikes and the DC choke on the positive leg eliminates high frequency spikes producing clean power. This technology was used for years in welders. An SCR would "reduce" voltage and a rectifier would turn the voltage in into DC. As to your capacitor concerns that is why it was the last “cleaning” component. After the spikes were eliminated it helps stabilize power. If run before the chokes there is a swing in voltage because of the spikes loading the capacitor. The Capacitor is not that important 99% of the power cleaning comes from the chokes. I have been using this setup on my lathe for over a year with hundreds of hours of run time because it was set up correctly. Your statement about it ruing my motor is simply incorrect. People against SCR as passionately as you are, are usually speaking from experience, they bought a cheap SCR (the cheaper the SCR the dirtier the output), didn't use chokes, used a cheep rectifier and expected it to work well. NOT ALL SCR VOLTAGE CONTROLLERS ARE CREATED EQUALY. Just like with a PWM the better the controller the better the power. I didn't create this video for likes and attention as you presume, I did it because there is a lot of bad information out there that does not show people how to correctly set up an SCR. Because of that bad information a lot of people have ruined their DC motors by not setting things up correctly, BUT doing it correctly will result in a good system that lasts a long time. Is an SCR as good as a high end (and expensive) PWM designed to run a motor like this, NO. Is a properly set up SCR as good, easier to use, more cost effective and way more robust than most PWM that come in treadmills, YES. I have three machines that are all using treadmill motors driven by SCR controllers and because I know the correct way to set them up they work extremely well. Your conclusions are based in facts but not the entire picture and without the full picture/understanding you are drawing incorrect conclusions.
@@dazecars To genuinely know what I am talking about when I say DC supply and to witness it in actual fact the experiment is simple and no arguments as what DC supply means. The difference between AC, rectified AC, AC to DC converters and the real DC. None compares to real DC. Since AC to DC converters are say expensive and that is why this type of videos are there for do it yourself.... which is the wanna be DC supply. It is termed as rectified AC. Fortunately there is the real deal at your disposal and it is everywhere. Better than the expensive converters, yes of course. I give you the real deal, YOUR CAR BATTERY. Just grab any of these motors and don't be shy because your car battery can turn your starter, that is right and that is no child's play which mind you then turns your entire engine. That is right. You just hook up any of this Treadmill motor to your car battery and don't you be shy because you are in for a treat. No worries, use your jumper cable, hell that is even better. It won't hurt anybody's feeling, especially yours. You will never ever be the same again nor will your beautiful Treadmill Motor once you witness what real DC is. Now know why no one told you that. It will purr like a kitten and the sound of harmony as your eyes and your ears witness it for YOURSELF FIRST HAND. Didn't mean to be beligerant at all. Just making it be known. { I mumble to myelf, it is hard not to get a joy letting the cat out of the box, or maybe it is bird. Now I can't remember}. Hey here is one. Buy a battery just for the motor. In fact get two of them and hook them in series and make 24 volts. That is right. Then get this, hook up your battery charger to your battery ( why not). You follow? Hook up your Treadmill motor to your 24 volt battery, Just trust me okay. No need for 100 or whatever volts. That motor will do whatever you wish. No it won't pull your semi trailer. Don't be silly. But you will know sweetness. And wonder if that thing is even running. Oh whisperring beauty. Over and out.
@@alchemy1 now you are just going down a rabbit hole that has nothing to do with the topic. “Rectified AC” IS DC. A lot of things in your home use a rectifier to convert AC to DC. Even the PWM controller boards that come in a treadmill for the express purpose of powering the treadmill motor have a rectifier to convert AC to DC. The only functional difference between PWM and SCR is the PWM does the on and off switching to reduce power after the rectifier where as the SCR does it before the rectifier. Will DC created from a rectifier be as smooth as a battery, NO. But that doesn’t mean it won’t work and work well. Your suggestion of running two car batteries and a battery charger is ridiculous and proves you do not know what you’re talking about. The advantage of a DC motor is if you change the voltage you change the speed. This is why you use a motor like this in applications where you want to be able to adjust speed with the turn of a knob. Your “battery technique” will provide a constant speed (with the exception that the speed will slowly decline as the voltage drops due to the depletion of the batteries) and is not a variable speed supply which is what the video is actually about.
@@dazecars To mitigate between zero point crossings, inductor impedence and capacitor impedence requires far more and much more involved than to be resolved by simplistic devices. Will agree to leave it at that. I didn't make the rules. It is all good ( assuming one has managed to ge to first base) untill there is demand on the system, then things get revealed more and more. [Quality is an appealing convincing term] That is all. I had nothing to do with it. :-)
Hi, I have a DCMD57P controller board and am not sure how to wire it to a PWM ? Have you ever wired one and if so can you explain how to do it. Not sure which of the 12 wires to use. Thank you. I am using the signal generator module with LCD display and rotary switch you use3d in your video.
Hey I have some questions about my treadmill motor and board I was wondering if you could help me with. Is there any way we could private message idk if you have a Facebook or something like that so I could message you
I came to this channel by chance, and now I haven't stopped watching your videos, I think they're great, excellent explanation, concrete and precise details, I'm glad there are people like you devoting their valuable time to showing us teaching us how to repower our machines, it's a Fabulous channel, hands up and subscribed, thanks for this wonderful contribution, I will be attentive to all your publications.
Glad you like them! That is high praise, thank you!! There is so much content on RUclips that it is hard to get noticed. If the opportunity arises please let others know about my channel.
This is the best explanation of the circuit that U have seen so far, between this user and Jeremy Fielding there isn't much needed information that you cant learn.
Thanks
I agree!
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I have to thank you for this thread and the several others that pertain to doing this setup. I did this and my G0602 lathe operates flawlessly, quieter, no power loss. Had to make sleeve to mount pulley on to the motor shaft, which was done before tear down.
Anyhow, thank you for all this information. It is like having a whole new lathe and cutting 1/4 inch of 20 tpi threads is so much easier with the slow speed.
You are very welcome!! My results were the same as yours. This is the single best upgrade I have done to my machines... and I have done a lot of upgrades.
Thanks for investing considerable time to help us improve our power tools, Daze. I've watched all your videos several times and have now converted my lathe and a friends lathe to variable speed. One thing you never talk about (unless I missed it) is the motor pulley. My motors both came with a six groove short Poly-V drive belt and a 1.5" Poly-V motor pulley . The diameter of the motor shaft is 17 mm which equates to 1.5 mm larger than a standard 5/8" V-groove pulley (The outside of the motor shaft is threaded smaller for the flywheel). I couldn't find a 17 mm bore V-groove pulley anywhere on earth so I ran the motor on the bench and used a file to turn the 17 mm motor shaft diameter down to 15.5 mm (5/8") for a standard pulley. Then the existing lathe V-groove belt works, albeit with a small vibration. I read that a notched V-groove belt will run smoother that a standard V-groove pulley. Is that what you use?
Then there's the option of running a Link-Belt that apparently runs smooth but with some squeal? Do you have experience with Link-belts? It sounds like they don't work well in reverse?
The lathe would likely run smoother with a Poly-V drive system and I finally found a supplier that would sell a 17 mm bore 2" Poly-V pulley for the motor, a 7/8" bore 3" Poly-V pulley for the headstock shaft and a 44" belt (8 groove). Those three items came to over $200. But "after" motor installation I did cut a square around the Poly-V pulley on the flywheel to separate it and turned it round with a file (same procedure as the motor shaft above) and that 1.5" pulley would now work for a motor shaft Poly-V drive pulley.
I'm wondering how you managed this drive problem on your seven motors?
Just a matter of interest, I used the MC-60 PCB for controlling both motors along with your pot center tap switch to bypass slow-start. My lathe now turns at 30 RPM up to about 2500 RPM - perfect. My $5 reverse switch is on order from China and my $18 tachometer just arrived. I've built a new quick release banjo, five tool rests, a hand crank handle for the quill and an oak 3" diameter hand crank for the external headstock shaft (just screwed it on after drilling a hole). Along with a new tailstock live center and a newly built Vari-grind and Wolverine sharpening system, my $67 Rockwell Beaver lathe (bought in the 70's) should now be shoulder to shoulder with a $6000 Powermatic. It brightens the room upon entry and any wood turner can feel the love. : )
Thanks so much for helping us all. Your knowledge and explanations are superior.
Salute - Garson
I am just using standard V-groove pulleys on my machines. It is not that I think they are better or that I have any specific preference, its just that is what my machine came with and what I can easily get at the local hardware store. As to mounting the pulleys to the treadmill motor, that is a good idea for a short video. When I put the treadmill motor on my lathe the motor I used had a keyway and it was smaller than the pulley that came with my lathe so I machined a sleeve, cut a groove in said sleeve and than made a taller key to fit in the shaft, pass through the sleeve and fit up into the pullet keyway. On my mill the flywheel was a thread on and I wanted the mass of the flywheel so removed the flywheel from the motor, chucked it up in the lathe and turned the pulley snout down until it was smooth. I then opened up the bore on an aluminum pulley set I had and pressed it on to the flywheel. On my mill there is no need to run in reverse so I was not worried about a thread on system. Glad my videos have been a help. If you have more questions OR if I failed to answer these questions, please don't hesitate to reach out.
You are correct. The treadmill motor has a 17mm shaft. To mate your pulley to your 17mm treadmill motor shaft buy a 17mm chucking reamer (ebay, they are cheap) drill the pulley to just under 17mm on your drill press. (I forgot what the fractional english size is but its easy to measure with calipers). Bore the drilled hole out to 17mm with your new chucking reamer (it works like a drill bit). Reamer is more accurate than a drill but you could just drill on your press with a 17 mm drill. Its better and more accurate to do this on a lathe but I'm assuming you don't have one.
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Thanks a million for your lengthily response ,,, I will watch out for a micro at the curb ,,, FYI there is a part inside those things containing some really poisonous stuff ,,, beryllium I believe ,,, again thanks
it's the magneto that is toxic, but as long as the ceramic part containing the chemical is not damaged there is no issue. The bigger thing to watch out for is the capacitor it can kill you outright.
One thing that may confuse or mislead people..... SCR based power supplies put out a pulsing DC voltage. No diode bridge needed. A TRIAC based circuit puts out AC voltage and this is where a diode bridge is needed. Also, strongly recommend any filtering devices (chokes, capacitors, etc) be placed immediately before the motor. After all it is the motor that needs the filtering not the bridge. Transformers can be used as chokes, simply use either the primary or secondary winding, not both. The transformer winding used has to have enough current capacity just like a choke would. I'm a retired electronics tech....
You may be a retired electronics technician but you are completely incorrect. The voltage coming out of an SCR is NOT DC. It is pulsed AC and the rectifier IS required every time! I have measured the AC with my meter and ALL the aftermarket SCR power supplies available are labeled AC in AC out. This is not to say you can not have an AC to DC SCR type power supply but it’s not a function of the SCR component that makes the power coming out DC. The MC 60 is an SCR type power supply and the voltage coming out of it is in fact DC. But that is because it has rectifying components on board. An SCR chip is designed to only work on AC and it has no other components with in it that convert AC to DC. Unless it is a specifically built DC power supply an SCR voltage controller will require a rectifier EVERY TIME.
As to placement of the chokes close to the motor that is a true statement EXCEPT the type of choke/inductor I use after the SCR but before the rectifier is more effective with AC current than DC current so it is used as the very last component before the AC is converted to DC at the rectifier.
So, this is awkward..... Retired guy is actually completely correct. You see, the R in SCR stands for rectifier. Here's the homework, from a textbook standpoint anyways....
A Silicon Controlled Rectifier (SCR) produces a direct current (DC) output when connected to an alternating current (AC) input. This is because an SCR is a unidirectional device that only allows current to flow in one direction, rectifying the AC input. A single SCR produces a pulsating DC output from an input AC waveform. More than one SCR can produce a pulsating DC output or pulsating AC output.
Taken from a a few Google search results.....
Nothing awkward at all because in this case a rectifier IS STILL REQUIRED. The two of you are taking a general concept of what an SCR chip is and applying it to an entire power supply that is configured to work in a specific way, AC to AC. It is FORE SURE not DC coming out of these boxes. The wiring instructions call the output hot and neutral (AC labeling), not + and - (DC labeling). I have put a meter on it and the output is AC not DC. Also looking at your own cut and paste, take a look at the last half of the sentence after the OR "More than one SCR can produce a pulsating DC output or pulsating AC output." All the units available on Amazon or eBay produce a pulsing AC output, that is what the power supply is designed to do, reduce AC voltage. I appreciate both you and @LouinVB trying to point out an error, but in this case it is not in error as the specific product being used is AC to AC and I don't want these comments to lead someone to think they don't need the bridge rectifier because if they try to run this box without a bridge rectifier they will burn up their DC motor with AC current.
@LouinVB I apologize for arguing with you. I knew for a fact that the power supplies I was using were called SCR by the manufacturers and were in fact AC to AC not even thinking about the component SCR and how it works. Upon further research I saw my error and have made another video going over the fact that at least one of them is indeed a triac and not an SCR. Thank you for the comment. ruclips.net/video/khyTt_fE0zI/видео.html
@@jarredmattingly5369 Thank you for making this comment it encouraged me to look further into what type of power supply this units actually are and even though labeled as an SCR by the manufacturer they are in fact Triac based. I'm always learning and I appreciate your comment. ruclips.net/video/khyTt_fE0zI/видео.html
Having played around with these things a bit, I have found that people do a garage clear out and sell 3 phase induction motors often for next to nothing (just like treadmills). Check the regular places and you’ll have one in a couple of weeks. I purchased a VFD from China for about a hundred so i can control motor speed and run on single phase. Just way smoother and doesn’t slow down so much when under load compared to the DC motor with SCR. And Super easy to wire up. The superior choice imo.
VFD is the way to go to have the best and yes if you can get the motor cheap that is a good option, but in my area there are not motors like that for sale.
@@dazecars In NZ where I am there are dozens of Fisher and Paykal washing machines (with drum motors inside) that get scrapped weekly at my local recycling. I mounted one directly to my 14" band saw and thought the VFD would drive it just fine. The torque is huge (from a crawl to 10,000rpm) and would have been great but unfortunately not compatible with the power supply. The motor windings got hot so I had to abandon mission. I am yet to make a brushless DC Arduino motor controller for drum motors to learn more about this but have been too busy to get back to it. China is very cagey about it and don't sell controllers for line voltage drum motors. The closest you get is an ebike hub motor (also a drum motor) and controller. Possibly also not a bad idea. Certainly cheap enough.
Hey Waynos Waynos,
Wouldn’t mind making contact with regard to your journey’s.
I’m in Chch and trying to figure out a cheap motor/ Vfd combo. Have treadmill motor in mind and curious about china vfd’s
Cheers
Chris
Yea, until you look for them. Then either nobody has them or they want an arm and a leg. These days, if something is 10 years old or more, they call it “vintage” and charge a premium.
But yea, ya gotta keep your eyes open and be patient.
👍
Hey dude,
Really cool video and almost understandable for an electrically challenged brain like mine.
I’m not too keen on spending $3-400 for a motor and then $5-700 on a Vfd 😫
Thanks so much
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the information. You cleared up some issues I was having with using the treadmill motor in my shop.👍
Glad I could help. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Best video I’ve seen on the subject by far! Thanks for posting.
Glad you it! I will be uploading a video on Thursday comparing the SCR type controller to the power supply available in many treadmills.
I too use a thread mill motor as well and I found out that if I use the motor alone without the flywheel it comes with I get that bogging down when force is applied, but if I keep the flywheel on the motor I get a lot less...
It is likely that your motor is undersized and/or you do not have it geared down properly. The motor on my lathe does not have the flywheel and I single point thread at 100 RPMS in a grade 8 bolt all the time, very high tool pressures and motor load. It not an issue and there is no bogging because its a big motor and I have 3.5:1 gearing
I'm ready to now use a free treadmill motor on my vintage 1947 Walker Turner wood lathe such as your video and your online directions suggest. Thanx for all you time.
glad I could help!! let me know if you need anything
@@dazecars Day, you mention a large DC choke? I have a 3hp DC motor. How to size the choke? Link for a cheapy? Thanx!
@@gregritchie1758 With the DC choke bigger is better. The bigger the choke, the biger the field created and the beter job it does. As for finding one, a lot of treadmills come with a choke. To find one used go to eBay and search “treadmill motor choke” BUT know that most people on eBay don’t know what they have and the word transformer will also appear in the listing. Problem is a choke and a transformer look almost identical so some listings are for transformers and some are fore chokes because the sellers think they are interchangeable. They are not. To tell the difference count the wires. A choke will only have 2, a transformer will have 3 or more.
Love your way of explaining!
Glad it was helpful!
This is a nice video. You did a nice job and the video is interesting and you keep to the point. My treadmill motor is typical and pulls 14 amp. A 14 amp Hammond choke costs $157 at mouser electronics. Your voltage controller is $27 on Amazon not $20, The big rectifier is $13, The dpdt switch I admit I'm guessing is most likely $5, and the capacitor is maybe $5. The scr in the circuit will surge at low power levels even with the choke and capacitor. A cheaper better performing circuit is to buy a 20 amp variac on ebay for $61, capacitor $5, recitifier $13. The ebay variac already has the switch and a variac circuit does not need the expensive choke and only needs two other parts namely a rectifier and and a capacitor to work and actually will work without the capacitor well. The variac circuit is more robust and will work better than your circuit with the high parts count. I guess I should make a youtube video.
That video is over a year old, prices have gone up. Interesting information, I may pick one up and test it out.
@@dazecars Thanks for your reply. You make good youtube video's.
I want to respond to this a little more in depth, not being argumentative just working it through. Yes your prices are accurate but they do not reflect used parts. I have several motor chokes sitting on the shelf that came in treadmills I got for free. Not all treadmills come with them but they can be had used on eBay in the $25.00 range. A quality SCR like the one I show in the video will not surge at low RPM. I use mine at the lowest RPM on my lathe all the time and it is smooth as silk. The cheeper one that everyone seams to be using (long skinny) will surge at lower RPMS. That’s why I show it doing just that in the video to show that not all SCR voltage controllers are created equally. I even purchased the other one that is commonly available with the digital readout and push button speed control and it too was free of the low speed surging but my torque dropped significantly making it the worst of the three. There is a huge difference between a quality SCR controller and the cheap ones. Depending on what comes in your treadmill and what you can get used a person can easily set up an SCR controller in the $50-$100 range. With all that said I am intrigued by the transformer you have shared info on and have ordered one. I will set it up on the bench and see how it performs, compare it to the SCR, and maybe even the PWM Mc-2100. One of my future projects is to build a small motor dyno. That way I can test all these power supplies. A lot of people don't realize that torque on a DC motor has a direct relation to amps being supplied by the power supply, and amps can drop at lower voltages but with a dyno I can do proper testing and compare all these power supplies. I really appreciate your comment and am looking forward to testing the variable transformer you recommend. I am also glad you like my videos.
@@dazecars I didn't know these SCR controllers existed. I bought two of them to play with. I am an electronics hobbyist. I most likely have a suitable choke somewhere in one of my junk boxes. I want to build your circuit this weekend and play with it. I'm converting a friends bandsaw to variable speed with a reduction pulley system so his wood cutting bandsaw can cut metal.
@@dwtees "hobbyist" that describes me as well. The biggest advantage to the SCR besides simplicity is the ability to have a fine and course speed control. I can dial in my speed within in a couple RPMS. I am looking forward to trying the variac. After your original post I have been researching them and the power is very clean so I am predicting it will work well other then limited numbers of speeds.
Did exactly as you proposed. 220 volts and 5000 W controller tho.
Works as advertised 😜
Glad I could help
Hi, is there preferred specs for either of the chokes/inductors? I am looking to order the parts, Amazon currently does not have available the specific SCR the you have listed, is there another model you recommend?
Thanks.
Not being an electrical engineer I do not have any specs or calculations for you on the motor choke. What I can do however is offer you some guidelines. First of all bigger is better. I have several motor chokes ranging from the size of a tennis ball to the size of a soft ball and the bigger they are the better they work. Second the wire for the choke needs to be a minimum of 16 awg. If the wire is not that big or better it will not have the amperage capacity to allow the motor to work properly. Amperage is the most important spec. A lot of the chokes available online are rated in mA. there are 1000 mA in an amp. Treadmill motors are rated in amps so most chokes available online are several hundred times too small. Third they are not available on Amazon at least not inexpensively, there are a few privet sellers on Amazon selling used parts for big bucks but the available chokes on amazon are too small because they are not designed for a motor even though they look correct in the picture they are WAY too small. The choke in most of my videos is part number 130993. Instead of getting one new I would get a used one. A lot of treadmills come with a choke. Go to eBay and search “treadmill motor choke” BUT know that most people on eBay don’t know what they have and the word “transformer" will also appear in most listings. Problem is a choke and a transformer look almost identical so some listings are for transformers and some are fore chokes because the sellers think they are interchangeable. They are not. They would only be interchangeable if you modify a transformer to work as a choke. (see my DIY choke video) To tell the difference count the wires. A choke will only have 2 wires, a transformer will have 3 or more. Also before I started doing videos chokes on eBay could be had for $25 or less shipped but now that more people are looking for them (due to my videos) the eBay sellers have raised their prices quite a bit. here is an Amazon link for the power supply. thank for pointing out that the other link was currently unavailable. amzn.to/48emkOh Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
I've been running a treadmill motor on my lathe for about 3 years now. And it just burned up last week. I was wondering if you would be willing to make a video showing the actual wiring all tied together. Could even be one of those shorts. From the wall to the tool complete.
showing the wires or just a wiring diagram?
good instruction video,,, easy to listen to ,, my question is what would be the specs for a large DC and AC choke please ,,, the motor is 130 vdc max and 3170 watts ,,, this choke would be used in conjunction with the items listed in the SCR wiring diagram ,,, thanks a million in advance
Not being an electrical engineer I do not have any specs for you, what I can do however is offer you some guide lines. First of all bigger is better. I have several motor chokes ranging from the size of a tennis ball to the size of a soft ball and the bigger they are the better they work. Second the wire for the choke needs to be a minimum of 16awg. If it is not that big or better it will not have the amperage capacity to allow the motor to work properly. Third they are not available on Amazon at least not inexpensively, there are a few privet sellers on Amazon selling used parts for big bucks. The choke in most of my videos is part number 130993. Instead of getting one new I would get a used one. A lot of treadmills come with a choke. Go to eBay and search “treadmill motor choke” BUT know that most people on eBay don’t know what they have and the word “transformer" will also appear in most listings. Problem is a choke and a transformer look almost identical so some listings are for transformers and some are fore chokes because the sellers think they are interchangeable. They are not. They would only be interchangeable if you modify a transformer to work as a choke. (see my DIY choke video) To tell the difference count the wires. A choke will only have 2, a transformer will have 3 or more. Also before I started doing videos chokes on eBay could be had for $25 or less shipped but now that more people are looking for them (due to my videos) the eBay sellers have raised their prices quite a bit. Your best bet might be the DIY option out of a Microwave transformer. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Going to use TM motor for honey extractor, i.e. centrifuge out honey from frames. What's the cheaper SCR that's mentioned with your bandsaw? Seems good enough for my application. Any other advice for my application? Thx. Great resource!
My advice would not be to get the cheaper SCR. It has cheaper components, has no cooling fan and the motor simply doesn't run as well. But if you insist on getting it this would be the link amzn.to/3YA3rSP its about 1/2 the price and easily 1/2 the quality. For $15 more the other one is so much better.
Thx, will go with your advice.
glad I could help
Truly appreciate your video, great job. Thank you !!!
Is it possible to send or post the exact part numbers of the parts you purchased to assemble in your circuit ? That would just the greatest !!!
Thank you in advance, Scott
Most of the parts are linked in the description The AC inductor can easily be made by getting ferrite doughnut and wrapping some wire around it. The choke in most of my videos is part number 130993. Instead of getting one new I would get a used one. A lot of treadmills come with a choke. Go to eBay and search “treadmill motor choke” BUT know that most people on eBay don’t know what they have and the word transformer will also appear in most listings. Problem is a choke and a transformer look almost identical so some listings are for transformers and some are fore chokes because the sellers think they are interchangeable. They are not. They would only be interchangeable if you modify a transformer to work as a choke. (see my DIY choke video) To tell the difference between a choke and transformer count the wires. A choke will only have 2, a transformer will have 3 or more. I would also recommend watching my most recent video. Its a little long but brakes down the pros and cons of the the 3 most common DIY treadmill motor power supply options ruclips.net/video/AdGypyO_UuM/видео.html Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
You don't put a capacitor on the rectified current? I'm interested in seeing what the result is if you smooth it out.
Also, I don't think you were clear about what causes the band saw to bog down when applying load - is it the cheaper SCR to blame?
Thanks for the info here - I've messed around with this a lot and didn't get results like you, but I think now it's because I didn't have the chokes. Probably why you don't have blue sparks jetting out the back of your motor. :D
Originally I ran a DC capacitor in parallel with the motor after the rectifier. And while it did help clothe power I found a surging load. Not all SCRs are created equally you must get the good one and a choke is IMHA required every time.
I have everything but the dc choke. I don’t know what to get.
Also, what capacitor do I need and how do I wire it in?
Thanks. Trying to follow and build your system.
Oh, how do I get an rpm display with this, what type and where does it hook in?
Paul
These videos should help, let me know if you have any other question
Capacitor info
ruclips.net/video/PDU59Tns_E0/видео.html
Choke info
ruclips.net/video/WRT_Ri18eLY/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/sYjkQvUSths/видео.html
RPM display info
ruclips.net/video/MmRMNo9IbVU/видео.html
🥰
👍
I had built a controller for a treadmill motor that I was using on my pedestal drill. I had used the cheaper SCR controller that you show in your video and I had a lot of trouble with a lack of torque at lower speeds, using hole, saws and spade, bits, etc. I came across your video on building, a quality speed controller for a treadmill motor and thought great, This is gonna fix my problem. I followed your instructions, bought the better SCR controller and although the speed controller works the same problem exists with a lack of torque. Is there a solution to this?
what is the torque of the motor you are using and how do you have it geared?
Hi. Great video. Did you ever try to use Solid state module like fotek ssr-40 VA for example instead of scr. Do you think that would be a good idea. Thanks
I could be mistaken but it is my understanding that that is just a relay and does nothing to very voltage. The voltage ranges it shows are operating ranges not any voltage conversation. The voltage that goes in is what will come out.
Saw this on Amazon. Is this any better or worst then the SCR you are recommending?
weideer 7-80V PWM DC Motor Speed Controller Switch 30A Control 12V 24V 36V 48V
Can you post a link so I can make a comparison?
Is it ok to have two toroidal ferrite rings, one for each wire?
Where do I get the dc choke and capacitor?
Thanks.
Paul.
Love your videos.
Glad you like them. As far as chokes check out my other choke videos. I found running a a capacitor caused surging under a load so I removed them.
Great video! Can you tell me ref the Bridge Rectifier, do I need single phase, 2 phase or 3 phase?.... Thanks
amzn.to/3BHcXqu Let me know if you need anything else
Does it matter which wire I use for in and which for out when wiring up the choke?
@@stuartcox4739 no the choke is non directional
i saw in your other video about the size of potentiometer you recommend was a 15k in series with a 135K. the KB-225 motor controler uses a 5K potentiometer. what am I missing?
They are totally different controllers with totally different components.
Ok, thanks
my pleasure
Another great video. Question ? What size RC circuit are you using ? Resister size and Capacitor size ?
I just cut up a defunct treadmill board. However I found that under load the RC circuit causes surging so I removed it.
hey, got a question about the bridge rectifier. i ordered the large one you use. the connectors needed for this thing are huge. what size connectors do you use going from say, 14awg wire to that size connectors. do you solder the wire to them? thanks in advance
I soldered the leads directly to the rectifier and then used heat shrink tubing over the top.
I put a commercial sewing machine motor on my drill press. Works great up to 10,000 rpm.
that is another way to do it
Good afternoon
I am wondering whether this diagram can work on a single phase 230v induction motor to vary the speed. The VFC is the ideal converter for this case but it is costly.
I will appreciate your advice/comments
Absolutely not!! A single phase 230V induction motor is AC and this setup is for DC. You may think you could eliminate the rectifier so that it is AC to AC but it will still not work. Using just an SCR the motor will slow but it will loose torque and it will not run well, to make maters worse prolonged use will damage the motor.
Just subbed, have one with the buttons right now. Will build a new box. Save this one for a spare. On my Shopsmith, 2 bandsaws, one resaw, one templates and bodies. Just got it running in the remodeled shop. Good info, come visit sometime. How do you figure the ohms for the potentiometer? Like the using 2 for adjustment fast. The button one does work, but bogging is an issue. I am adding circuit breakers or fuses, need to decide on load for them.
My machine ate a 3 wire scr, due to a shorted rectifier. Then well I missed it, burned up another. Sounded like a bad welder, lol
Wish the camera were on for it. Lol
Thanks my Brother, later Spike
To calibrate what potentiometer you need you must have everything installed on the machine that is getting the treadmill motor and then follow the procedure in this video ruclips.net/video/04d0u1RJyXw/видео.html Also bogging is something more common with cheaper SCRs. The most common one that you see in RUclips videos is long and skinny and has the knob on one end. It is prone to bogging at lower RPM. The SCR I recomend is more expensive but a much better unit and my lathe runs well at low RPMS even under load. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Can you set the DC output to 20v and then use the PSU to energize a power tool? I would love to use the SCR based PSU to power my power hungry “18V” power tools. I have an 18V table saw, rotary hammer, and cut off saw, that having a high amperage 20V DC PSU would be needed.
I think you have you have talked about it before but if you put this PSU under load does the voltage drop?
An aside question is how many amps are you pulling from the 120V/240V AC outlet/breaker going into the SCR PSU?
Sorry I did not get back to you sooner. The SCR would not be my first choice for what you are wanting to do. If it failed it might over power your tools and burn them up, not to mention the adjustability might get adjusted causing damage. A better solution would be to get a 120 to 20 V transformer and then use a bridge rectifier to convert the 20V AC to 20V DC. The voltage would be constant and a transformer could be selected with the correct amperage output. To answer your other questions my SCR setup is drawing around 15 amps from the wall. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
Do you have a supplier for large DC Choke? Also how many turns on the ac ferrite choke. Finally any info on the resister/ capacitor? Thanks for your help.
eBay. search “treadmill motor choke” but know that most sellers don’t know the difference between a choke and a transformer because the look the same but are not interchangeable . a choke has 2 wires a transformer will have 3 or more. for the ac side 7 turns of each wire is standard. the RC circuit is not needed.
Hello, have used you system, but my power at low speed is pulsing. Any recommendations?
Sounds like you got the long skinny less expensive SCR that everyone else on RUclips recommends instead of the higher end one with the cooling fan that I recommend.
How does the fan on the motor work when it’s going in reverse?
Paul
Depends on the fan. If it is part of the flywheel there is no effect. If it is a stand alone fan the air flows the opposite direction.
I bought 3 SCRs from Amazon ( yours recommended link) and after connecting the 110v input I measured only 110v output , turning potenciometer didn't made a difference. Am I so "lucky " getting a defected once or am I making some mistakes?
That is because it's not under a load. Because of the on off switching action of an SCR it will measure at full volts without something to draw it down attached.
Ok,thanks!
👍
I know this is kind of an old video but some months ago I followed the instructions presented here to build my power supply for my treadmill motor and it seems to work really good! However I can't help but wonder about that capacitor shown along with the collection of parts used for this setup, there's no mention of it so I was wondering if it's not needed or could it offer some advantages if used? The choke is of course used here to smooth out the power but since that's also the purpose of a capacitor would adding one be helpful in any way or would it simply be a waste of time and materials?
I get this question about once a day and need to make a video on it. I ran them on my machines when I first set them up but it caused two issues, the first is it took a little longer for the motor to stop spinning after turned off. The second issue was surging under a load at low RPMS so I removed them.
@@dazecars Thanks, now I know!
As I said my setup seems to be working quite well with very little brush sparking but I couldn't help but wonder about that capacitor in the video and if it would make the supply even better. OK I will just leave it as it is, thanks a bunch you saved me a lot of money since I needed less than forty dollars in parts (using what I salvaged from the treadmill) and I am quite happy with the results!
Thanks again and I really like your vids!
@@catman4644 Glad I could help!!!
have you looked at the PWM 5000W DC motor speed controller, DC 10-55V@100A max. Amazon for $27.99 looks like it would work.
link to above: a.co/d/hidAish
It could work but I see a few red flags. First you still need a DC power supply big enough to power the motor and it need to put out the max voltage that unit can handle which is 55V. Said power supply also needs to be high amp 15-25 as that is the amp range of these motors. Then there is the second issue that PWM has, at a max of 55V you will not get your treadmill speed up, much past half.
need help with the wiring of the bridge rectifier like the on you have . Is the ac going to the positive and the negative on the same side of the rectifier or does it go cati corner .
The rectifier should be clearly labeled the sideways S is AC the + and - are DC. Be carful hooking it up incorrectly can cause all kinds of problems/dangers.
@@dazecars thank you I definitely had that reversed.
your videos really help alot
👍
Would a drill gearbox work mated to a treadmill motor? Cheapest gearbox I can think of.
Different sized pulleys and a belt are the best way to go. A drill gearbox will not be able to handle the RPMs that treadmill motors go to, most are 4000-7000
What size choke did you use? Do you go by amps or……..? The big choke I mean; just before the run capacitor.
I just use the ones out of treadmills I have parted out, and there are not any specs on them. I have 4 different sizes from the size of a racketball all the way up to a softball and they all work about the same. If you are looking at a new one you want one that is rated at the amps of your motor. If it is rated in watts take the amps X the volts from the motor and that will give you watts. For used ones eBay is probably your best place to get one. Search "Treadmill Choke". Be warned however that a lot of eBay sellers do not know if they have a choke or a transformer AND because they look the same think they are interchangeable but they are not. Easy way to know the difference is a choke will have 2 wires, but a transformer will have 4 or more.
@@dazecars thank you very much
👍
good to know thanks
My plesure
Have played with both options of using the original treadmill controller and the SCR one. Have also found differences on low speed control that may be explained bay a bigclive breakdown here ruclips.net/video/_4PwYm_7HKg/видео.html. I have found the controller I have that has that diode bridge on it is the one that give better low speed control. Unfortunately you cannot always find out before buys what the actual circuit is.
Also congrats for being the first video I have seen that doesn't just throw out the caps and chokes from the original.
A minor thing (and I am just guessing here) but I suspect the ferrite is more about suppressing the radio frequency interference noise created by the high voltage switching.
Another key advantage of some of the PWM native controllers is that they can maintain speed under load if you keep the optical pickup on, although it can be a bit hit and miss to get it running
thanks for the feedback. the chokes are critical, the caps, not as much. a cap is fantastic when properly calibrated to the system but that takes more knowledge then I have. I did find improvement on the bench but under a load I was having some surging issues so I removed them. the power is not as clean but the system runs better under a load. check out my most recent video I compare an MC-2100 to an SCR in a VS shootout.
Can we use the Variac directly connected to the Motor if it's anAC motor??
not really. Can you yes but it will effect torque and it is hard on the motor. AC motors are designed to work a very specific operating voltage. When you change that it drastically effects function. The correct and really only way to very the speed on an AC motor is to use a VFD
@@dazecarsGreetings from India, Thank you for your reply. did not expect it that soon. 👍👍👍
Even though there is way more of them than there is of me I try to respond in a timely manner to ALL the people that took the time to make a comment or ask a question..
@@dazecars That's impressive , always good to meet someone with a strong Character....
👍
Where can a person get that motor mount used in this video?
It came with the motor in the treadmill
@@dazecars do you have the make and model number of the treadmill?
@@mcdls5 I do not
Did you change the value on the original pot to a lower one?
I did. That info is more technical than the scope of this video but the web page I created (and talk about in the beginning of the video) covers how I chose a pot and using a resister to set max speed. dazecars.com/dazed/variable.html
Blessings bro just got a 240v 3hp out rotor dc motor would appreciate a little help understanding the motor and actually powering it up any help will be much appreciated
I need more info to help. Contact me through my website so you can email me pix of the motor, especially the data plate.
why did you have a capacitor in the video do you use one?
In the early days I did run a capacitor but I found the choke was good enough at cleaning power and the capacitor caused surging under a load.
Could you put an inline diode from the rectifier to the motor to prevent motor burnout due to rectifier failure ?
It doesn’t work that way. When a rectifier fails it shorts out, effectively connecting the two wires together coming out of the power supply. This can burn up the power supply. Electricity takes the path of least resistance so all current will be flowing through the short and no power will be getting to the motor. When a bride rectifier fails at best you will trip the AC circuit breaker, at worst you will fry the power supply. That is why I recommend a circuit breaker or fuse between the rectifier and the power supply. Please let me know if you have any further questions.
@@dazecars thanks for the clarification. I thought the motor was getting ac power but it's the power supply that is vulnerable. By the way this was the best controller video I have seen and I've seen a lot
@@ksgjlg Glad you liked it and that it was helpful. I also have one on using the treadmill control boards, its worth a look if you haven't seen it.
@@champspec When scrapping FREE treadmills you don't get to choose "good ones" 😂😂. I have scrapped about 15 and roughly half were of higher quality. I use the smaller motors in my videos because they are smaller, lighter, and easier to move around and show on the videos, but the ones I am using on my machines are a lot larger and far superior quality.
Wait, no capacitor for smoothing?
I had one on several machines but it caused surging under a load
When buying the chokes, what specs am i looking for for both AC and DC?
The
AC choke is easy, it is simply a ferrite doughnut with both AC leads wrapped around said doughnut about 6-7 times. A lot of electronic devices use them and they can be scavenged from lots of things. The DC choke can be gotten off eBay. Search treadmill choke HOWEVER because transformers and chokes look similar and because of that a lot of eBay sellers list them interchangeably and they are NOT Easiest way to know if it is a DC choke is it will only have 2 wires. a transformer will often have 4-8 wires but never only 2
@@dazecars Thanks Daze, I bought a choke off of Ebay (2 wires). The purchase hurt though, $40 after shipping and tax.
@@FNSICK It will be well worth it in the long run as it will increase motor life
@@dazecars I bought the wrong board though. MC-1200 instead of a MC-2100. Looks like it will work fine though
@@FNSICK If you have any problems hooking it it contact me through my web page so you can send me pix of it and I may be able to help
Can you do a simple diagram of all the wiring connections ? thank you
I have one and can make it a future video
I've bought everything that you showed in the video my problem is I don't know how to put it together please make video or send me a diagram if possible@@dazecars the sooner the better I really would appreciate thank you
@@chino44m63 I am still planning to do a video but in the meantime I have uploaded a diagram to my web page on the subject. dazecars.com "tech articles" then "varriable speed shop tools"
@@chino44m63 Here you go. I just uploaded the video you requested ruclips.net/video/SjEgKH_MGFE/видео.html
Nice video, but... So what happens if you don't buy the "quality" SCR controller. I bought one of the "other" ones. I hook it up to the same treadmill motor that you show in your set-up but mine does NOT work smoothly. It pulses very annoyingly. If you really want to help us out do a troubleshoot video about what is actually going on, why these controllers might not work magically like you show in your video, and especially what to do to correct the pulsing. I bought 2 controllers on Amazon and both do the exact same pulsing thing, not just at low rpm but at whatever speed I set the pot at. BTW I have successfully converted multiple tools (drill press, metal lathe, wood lathe, sander) but this time I am frustrated because things are not working and I don't know why. I have tried the controllers on other treadmill motors and its the same. Anyway, help would be appreciated. I can't be the only one who has problems.
that is exactly why I tell people to "buy the quality SCR". The cheap ones pulse. There is no fixing it
Isn’t everything needed to power the treadmill motor in the treadmill.
In theory yes, but often times, no. A lot of treadmills in the free-$50 range are that price because they are not working correctly, usually a bad control board. Even if the treadmill is working some of them can not be used without using the treadmill control panel which is cumbersome and not user friendly for shop tools. There are some treadmill control boards that do work and can be easily wired with a potentiometer or “hacked” with a PWM (I have a different video on that) but if that is not an option a power supply like the one I show in this video is a good alternative.
Humming dinamo Removable?
not sure what you are asking
can i upgrade my 1hp motor on my treadmill to a 2.5hp
It’s not as simple as yes or no. Can you plug it it? Yes. Can you mount it in the same place? maybe. Will your controller have enough amp output? Maybe. Also HP numbers are like calories per serving on nutrition information. Just because it’s more HP doesn’t mean it is the better motor.
Hi does anyone have information on the smooting capacitor circuit with the resistor
The chokes are the most important part. After lots of use I found that the power was clean enough after the chokes that the RC circuit was redundent and not really needed.
@@dazecars Hi, thank you for that, but do you know where i can get the details of the smooting capacitor and resistor. The reason is i got a choke of an old power supply and i am not sure if the choke is adequate thatis why i would like to add the capacitor and resistor. Regards J
With chokes, the general rule is bigger is better, because the bigger the ferrite core the bigger the magnetic field and the more windings of wire in said field. So as long as it has good size you should be fine. As to the RC circuit I got mine out of existing control boards from treadmills that were not usable without the treadmill control panel, I don't have any other specs than that. Capacitor size is a calculation of motor size and power supply output. I was able to use ones off of treadmills that had similar motors to what I was using the circuit on. I know there is a calculation to figure out capacitor size but I am not sure what it is. The resistor is just there to dissipate the charge out of the capacitor when the system is off. Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.
Do you have an e-mail address where I could possibly communicate with you. Without broadcasting my ignorance all over the internet? Lol
I searched your web page and didn't see one.
One question I have is. I have a mc 2100. And I have a quality scr mc. Which of the two would you recommend? I am not a fan of the soft start.
go to my website and click “about “ in the menu bar. “contact Dazecars “ is in the drop down menu.
Nah, PWM is the way to go. Today's semiconductors with good heat dissipation mitigates all the issues you mentioned. It's why welders today are a lot smaller and run cooler than in the past. When you compare the waveforms, PWMs deliver a cleaner and more uniform torque/speed.
Thanks for the comment. I 100% agree that a good PWM power suply is better than SCR controller but a good PMW is also expensive, $200 + for one with the amp and volt requirements of a treadmill motor at max. Most of the treadmills come with a PWM board but in my experience they don't work as well as a properly set up SCR units. So if you spend the money, a good PMW will out perform an SCR but most people using treadmill parts are trying to balance quality with price at which point an SCR unit is far more budget friendly and (if you do the things in my vidio to clean the power) can be set up to run very well providing the best performance to cost ratio. IMHO
@@dazecars You can buy a 90V pwm "speed governor" for less than 20 bucks on Amazon. At the lowest voltage, the torque is low, but you can gear it up to overcome it.
@@bobweiram6321 A lot of people running treadmill motors run them BECAUSE they can lower the speed and anything that looses torque at lower RPMS is counter productive. Would love a link for this PMW that is only $20. All the ones I have seen are not really up to the task
@@dazecars PWMs lose torque only at the lowest range due to its back EMF sensing circuit. If the EMF combined with the impedance of the motor is below a certain range, the circuitry fails to dump more power. Once you get past the low range, the torque curve stabilizes and flatlines, which is the constant torque. A slightly more expensive PWM controller has better sensing and can adjust the power to maintain a constant current or torque even at the lowest speed. It's not an important detail since 1 to 5 RPM is used much and if you do need it, then gearing it will give you constant current at those speeds. SCRs, on the other hand, only give you maximum torque at their full speed and rapidly drop off for anything lower. You're essentially controlling the phase angle.
Here's the link for the controller. The price has gone up since I last checked. There's better ones out there, but I cannot vouch for them.
www.amazon.com/dp/B07RLFZM2V?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_PC75RYT25GJDM69ATN8Y
With an SCR the torque at low RPM is fantastic ( I do single point threading in grade 8 bolts all the time and my lowest RPM setting) even if you are correct and it is only max torque at max RPMs it is still nearly max torque at the lowest RPMs so the drop off in minimal. I mean no disrespect but your PWM is a terrible choice. It is no wonder you are loosing torque. That is a 5 amp PMW and most of these motors are 15 amps or more. Torque is a product of amperage as the number of amps flowing through the coil determines the strength of the electro magnet inside the motor. At only 5 amps you will loose torque at ALL RPMs. I am not 100% sure but I don't believe the relation from amps to torque is linear so with your 5 amps it is probably better than 1/3 max torque. But you are probably loosing at least half the torque your motor is capable of. And if it is linear than you would be loosing 2/3. A higher amp PWM will cost you several hundred dollars. You are correct that a QUALITY PWM will out perform an SCR. But the one you have linked is not up to the task. The only budget friendly way to run a treadmill motor and not loose torque is to run the treadmill board or an SCR. Your premise that your PWM is better simply because it’s a PWM is like saying a 250 cubic inch V8 is better than a 400 cubic inch in line 6 just because it’s a v8 but the 400 will out perform the 250 in EVERY category just as a quality SCR will out perform your PWM in EVERY category.
you could remove that hum when editing the video.
This was one of my first videos and I was still learning the editing software
PWM doesn’t need to be expensive, not when you build your own controller. And they provide more low-end torque than an SCR in my experience.
I haven’t messed with treadmill motor voltages in a while, but I’ve got a really nice motor on the shelf that’s been waiting for a home. Probably time I dig it out and wake it up.
A pore quality SCR will not function as well as a PWM and yes the motor will slow under load ( your observation of less torque). But a quality SCR will function as well as a PWM supply.
I'm wondering if I could use 120v AC motor running a car alternator to charge a car battery to then run a treadmill motor so as to avoid all these pros and cons of motor controllers. Why is it so complicated? How does Elon musk control his DC motor in his cars?
that would only work if you wanted one speed and not very fast. It is volts that changes speed. A 12 V battery will only give you the speed the motor turns at 12V. The complication is not converting AC to DC, that part is easy. The complication is in changing the voltage so you can change the speed.
I am sorry to do this but I must:
Read on: If this will cause to delete my comment and further be blocked, I simply interpret that as it did its job.
These import chinese so called adjustable voltage, variable voltage or whatever terminlogy is used for it, just know this. In actual defintion they are what is called phase controllers, that is CHEAP PHASE CONTROLLERS. But phase controllers for what?
There are only two ways to change voltage in AC motors. One is by what is called phase control and the other is variable frequency drive. You hear the term VFD lingo. Now read on.
Phase controllers do not work on induction motors. That is not what is meant by AC motors. When they say AC motors, it means universal motors, you know the brushed motors like your power tools if you know what I mean.
They also work as light dimmers. And that is it. But anything works on those universal motors, you don't need this nonsense to control their speed unless you have an old old vintage one that was made back in the days and you just can't wait to control their awe inspiring speed.
Now if you think you can just install a bridge rectifier (any kind of it) and a choke and a capacitor or whatever on these to run a heavy duty Magnetic DC motors you will be in for a rude awakening.
You are basically running your Treadmill motor on a cheap messed up half ass supply that is neither AC nor real DC. Trust me.
When you convert your AC to DC with a bridge rectifier, what you don't get is the science of it.
First of all as you know your AC flactuates up and down and also back and forth. It has two movement. Well guess what, so does your bridge rectifier, it transfers the up and down fully intact, just removes the back and forth.
If you think a capacitor smooth things out, guess what, it doesn't. In fact it raises the voltage higher. Just remember you and I and all these folks didn't finish a degree in electricity. I know and there are billions of us out there.
Your motor takes on a beating like it is nobody's business.
If you want to destroy your motor, there are cheaper and faster ways to do it.
And by the way that potentiometer turning knob job has little meaning with respect to this. These high torque heavy duty motors will impose their need on current and them little turning knob job and the triac and diac and quadrac by themselves is just kids play to it. These things are called light dimmers for a reason. And by the way this word "light" in light dimmer does not refer to any other light but old obsolete incandecent light bulbs.
You hear that?
You get that?
Suit yourself.
Now you think about that.
( No you won't hear this kind of truth just to get attention and clicks)
You are not correct, at least not correct as it pertains to my video. An SCR voltage controller does the same thing that a PWM does only for AC. It switches on and off quickly to effectively reduce voltage. You are correct that this technique does not work well for most AC application except things like lights just as you said, but when you convert it to DC with a rectifier it is true DC. That is how a rectifier works. When DC is converted to AC it is not tru AC BUT in reverse it is 100% true DC. That is what every power supply in your house does. You are also correct that when improperly set up SCR controllers will create power spikes, but that is what the chokes are for. The AC choke between SCR and rectifier eliminates low frequency spikes and the DC choke on the positive leg eliminates high frequency spikes producing clean power. This technology was used for years in welders. An SCR would "reduce" voltage and a rectifier would turn the voltage in into DC. As to your capacitor concerns that is why it was the last “cleaning” component. After the spikes were eliminated it helps stabilize power. If run before the chokes there is a swing in voltage because of the spikes loading the capacitor. The Capacitor is not that important 99% of the power cleaning comes from the chokes. I have been using this setup on my lathe for over a year with hundreds of hours of run time because it was set up correctly. Your statement about it ruing my motor is simply incorrect. People against SCR as passionately as you are, are usually speaking from experience, they bought a cheap SCR (the cheaper the SCR the dirtier the output), didn't use chokes, used a cheep rectifier and expected it to work well. NOT ALL SCR VOLTAGE CONTROLLERS ARE CREATED EQUALY. Just like with a PWM the better the controller the better the power. I didn't create this video for likes and attention as you presume, I did it because there is a lot of bad information out there that does not show people how to correctly set up an SCR. Because of that bad information a lot of people have ruined their DC motors by not setting things up correctly, BUT doing it correctly will result in a good system that lasts a long time. Is an SCR as good as a high end (and expensive) PWM designed to run a motor like this, NO. Is a properly set up SCR as good, easier to use, more cost effective and way more robust than most PWM that come in treadmills, YES. I have three machines that are all using treadmill motors driven by SCR controllers and because I know the correct way to set them up they work extremely well. Your conclusions are based in facts but not the entire picture and without the full picture/understanding you are drawing incorrect conclusions.
@@dazecars To genuinely know what I am talking about when I say DC supply and to witness it in actual fact the experiment is simple and no arguments as what DC supply means. The difference between AC, rectified AC, AC to DC converters and the real DC.
None compares to real DC.
Since AC to DC converters are say expensive and that is why this type of videos are there for do it yourself.... which is the wanna be DC supply. It is termed as rectified AC.
Fortunately there is the real deal at your disposal and it is everywhere. Better than the expensive converters, yes of course. I give you the real deal, YOUR CAR BATTERY.
Just grab any of these motors and don't be shy because your car battery can turn your starter, that is right and that is no child's play which mind you then turns your entire engine. That is right.
You just hook up any of this Treadmill motor to your car battery and don't you be shy because you are in for a treat. No worries, use your jumper cable, hell that is even better. It won't hurt anybody's feeling, especially yours.
You will never ever be the same again nor will your beautiful Treadmill Motor once you witness what real DC is. Now know why no one told you that.
It will purr like a kitten and the sound of harmony as your eyes and your ears witness it for YOURSELF FIRST HAND.
Didn't mean to be beligerant at all. Just making it be known.
{ I mumble to myelf, it is hard not to get a joy letting the cat out of the box, or maybe it is bird. Now I can't remember}.
Hey here is one. Buy a battery just for the motor. In fact get two of them and hook them in series and make 24 volts. That is right. Then get this, hook up your battery charger to your battery ( why not).
You follow?
Hook up your Treadmill motor to your 24 volt battery, Just trust me okay. No need for 100 or whatever volts. That motor will do whatever you wish. No it won't pull your semi trailer. Don't be silly.
But you will know sweetness. And wonder if that thing is even running. Oh whisperring beauty.
Over and out.
@@alchemy1 now you are just going down a rabbit hole that has nothing to do with the topic. “Rectified AC” IS DC. A lot of things in your home use a rectifier to convert AC to DC. Even the PWM controller boards that come in a treadmill for the express purpose of powering the treadmill motor have a rectifier to convert AC to DC. The only functional difference between PWM and SCR is the PWM does the on and off switching to reduce power after the rectifier where as the SCR does it before the rectifier. Will DC created from a rectifier be as smooth as a battery, NO. But that doesn’t mean it won’t work and work well. Your suggestion of running two car batteries and a battery charger is ridiculous and proves you do not know what you’re talking about. The advantage of a DC motor is if you change the voltage you change the speed. This is why you use a motor like this in applications where you want to be able to adjust speed with the turn of a knob. Your “battery technique” will provide a constant speed (with the exception that the speed will slowly decline as the voltage drops due to the depletion of the batteries) and is not a variable speed supply which is what the video is actually about.
@@dazecars To mitigate between zero point crossings, inductor impedence and capacitor impedence requires far more and much more involved than to be resolved by simplistic devices. Will agree to leave it at that. I didn't make the rules.
It is all good ( assuming one has managed to ge to first base) untill there is demand on the system, then things get revealed more and more.
[Quality is an appealing convincing term]
That is all. I had nothing to do with it. :-)
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Hi, I have a DCMD57P controller board and am not sure how to wire it to a PWM ? Have you ever wired one and if so can you explain how to do it. Not sure which of the 12 wires to use. Thank you. I am using the signal generator module with LCD display and rotary switch you use3d in your video.
Sorry but I don’t have a hack for that board.
Hey I have some questions about my treadmill motor and board I was wondering if you could help me with. Is there any way we could private message idk if you have a Facebook or something like that so I could message you
email me through my website
@@dazecars just sent it thank you.
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