One thing I categorically can say since I left the Organisation, is that I feel much much less Judgemental. And a lot more easing going with Strangers. Your not always having an US v Them mentality. People are just people.
I agree wholeheartedly. And it's a burden to judge. JWs definitely don't follow the Bible on that one. Too much hierarchy in their organization. Too many people playing elder, or spiritual police.
John, we all struggle with fitness after a certain age. I used to get up and walk 30 minutes every morning and the weight fell off. Got out of the habit and gained weight! You are a handsome man with a dazzling smile. Plus you have a beautiful wife and daughter. You are lucky and strong. Keep getting your message out. Hugs!
You're a beautiful human, just thought that you should know this. Thank you for the mountains of GOOD that you do, every day. And last, thank you for being so brave and putting yourself out there, for the world to see & hear your story 🎯 That alone, has changed so many pple's lives, probably more than you'll ever know. The world is a better place, w/ you in it 😊
You took the words right out of my mouth! I feel so indebted to this wonderful man. He had such a calming effect on me when i was in turmoil over my decision to leave. I too have been freed now from so many negative emotions about others. I feel happy for the first time in years.
Lloyd, I only stumbled across your informative and intellectually stimulating podcasts and videos this year. In that short time I've learned SO MUCH, please keep up the activism and the humour, you are very much appreciated!
I was a JW for 38 years. When I was in, my conversations were always guarded in case I said the wrong thing. I felt restricted, isolated and unable to express myself honestly. Now I'm out I'm more open and honest, no longer worried of the occasional freudian slip and I speak my own truth, not what others expects to hear. It's very liberating!
You make really interesting points that resonate with me. Dijana’s point that you give more now out of generosity than out of a sense of duty is how I feel about myself also. Regarding morals, I got in touch with my own moral compass rather than looking through watchtower’s lens. I found out that I am a tolerant person who tends to empathize, sometimes too much, and likes to take up for the little guy in situations where I see injustice. Before it was just this cold, uninvolved feeling that the whole world is satanic anyway so nothing and no one matters. So leaving made me more loving and interested in my fellow humans.
On the idea of being "less selfish". I think it's really really hard to reach out and help others when you can't "give from the overflow". It's hard to take care of others when who you are is broken, drained, exhausted, and burnt out. Compassion and giving comes from not just having the material items to give, but the emotional resources. And, when you're constantly depleting yourself by giving all of you to the org, or to future witnesses, you don't have anything left to care about those around you. Your cup is dry. When you feel more fulfilled as a PERSON, you feel grounded and planted, and full of love and happiness and freedom, reaching out and helping others is a JOY. You want them to feel what you have and you have SO much to give. And, that's just not the case when you're running on empty, your affections are being carefully redirected, your attention is calculated by the org, and you're disallowed any self-compassion. It's almost impossible to give when you're in need. So, it makes perfect sense that you'd have that ability now.
Thank you for this special video. We always appreciate your videos, but this one is extraordinary because it is so personal. We left JWs as a familiy (parents in the late 40th an teenage kids) 7 years ago. All of us have been raised as JWs and leaving the JWs has been the most challenging experience in our whole life. Although we've had a lot of struggles (including anxiety disorder and depression) we are so happy to live a satisfying and free life. Most of the time we enjoy the great variety of emotions we are able to feel (and express) now. We realy feel alive. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Lloyd, I can totally relate to both the pluses and minuses of leaving the Jehovah’s Witness religion. I “thought” I had such good friends as a witness, as my social life was always in high gear. But, the reality is that we were friends solely on a conditional basis. And unfortunately, that holds true for family as well. I was lucky though that my mom never shunned me, as she was smarter then to accept that irresponsible policy. So friends we lost who are still in the “truth” and who shun us, I guess were never real friends anyway.
I really feel for ex jws who are being shunned by their families. I was a witness for 28 years with no family in the cult and when I heard about the ARC I became furious and didn’t want anything to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses.I’ve been fading for one year now and all I want to do is give back to society for the time I lost during all those years. I want to volunteer for instance in a food bank, give blood, give my time at the SPCA. I truly believe that giving to others help one feel better. Thank you Lloyd for this video I really appreciate your work it helped me a lot.
Thanks for sharing your candid and honest thoughts Lloyd. I can relate to all of them. I'll add that one of the biggest benefits for me is in resolving a lot of the negative impacts associated with the cognitive dissonance you have as a 'thinking' JW. Realising that the answer to the question "Is this life all there is?" is Yes, enables you to accept and deal with the realities (good and bad) of life more effectively, be more accepting of others, and definitely live more in the moment instead of believing the 'real life' is something in the future. Still making the transition after 50 odd years as a born in and your channel is a great help. Many thanks!
Depression is what I suffer from. Even though I walked away from the religion many years ago, I still was not awake. I just figured I'd live my life the way I wanted to then die in Armageddon. I "woke" up literally 2 1/2 years ago. It truly hit me like a ton of bricks. My depression came from realizing I was lied to and realizing I was dumb enough to believe most of that. Ironically, what gave me peace (I know many on this channel don't believe it) was reading the bible for myself and seeing the "true" blessings I really have. I occasionally go to a non-denominational christian church, but mostly I study on my own. Prayer and meditation help me.... yoga helps. :) I really have managed my depression. Trust me, I realize that for many, God is a fantasy. I don't see that. It's my choice and believe in my heart that He is real. BUT no longer being a JW has given me the tolerance to accept people for who they are; not look down on them because they are atheist, Muslim, Jewish, gay, or whatever. Life is hard enough without having to deal with bigotry.
@@Goonapachamoothoo If you believe in what the Watchtower has to offer, you should not be here. You should not be reading this. I think those who are in but can help themselves but to read what ex-JWs are reading are not as "faithful" to the JW organization as they think they are.
I will also say that a HUGE change for me was finally realizing that seeing a therapist was a GOOD thing and taking advantage of that myself! Even after 2 HORRIBLY abusive marriages (which I feel I ended up in due to the "submissive wife" JW dogma), I was terrified at the thought of telling my secrets to a "worldly" stranger! But, it was one of the best things I ever did for ME and I would recommend it to anyone who has had similar experiences or struggled with depression, which I have, as well. My therapist had never really met a JW before, only knew them from them knocking on her door. After our first couple sessions, she did a lot of research (which really impressed me) and she couldn't believe they were the same group! She was the one who first got me to understand that being a "good wife" and being a punching bag were two VERY different things! And, as someone who was nearly killed (literally) on at least 5 occasions, that was a very important thing to learn!
I am in fact so much happier outside of the org.. I mainly left bc it wasn’t in my heart to serve Jehovah but now that I am awake I see all the hypocrisy in the religion.. my wake up call was the Australian royal commission amongst their false doctrines!! Thank you for your amazing videos Lloyd :) ps I’m literally binge watching all your rebuttals
John/Lloyd you said that you have less friends now, but you also pointed out that JW friendship is artificial and conditional. The friends that you have now may be fewer in number, but they are TRUE friends. One true friend is worth half a dozen artificial ones! You also said that you were less healthy now. Did you know that there are many physical conditions/illnesses that can cause Depression? It maybe something to look into if your Depression continues. Just a thought.
Yes, I was thinking about the conditional aspect of JW friendship for that part during the edits, although thankfully I mentioned it later in the video. You make a great point. :)
But Llyod,you can still believe invthe Bible and not see women as 2nd class ....however the Bible it self puts women as nothing but chattel you can read it in the New T.
So without writing a novel here (and I’ll probably fail at that)... this hit home for me as I’m sure it will for most honest hearted watchers. I especially was touched ( I found my self tearing up a bit) by your point 3 in the negatives. I kept grasping for the words to explain this feeling as well when it hits you and I think you said it well that the “packaged IV fed happiness” the JWs constantly inject in you is more like a false euphoria (we’ve all experienced this when we would go to the conventions in the summer - it’s an emotional pill that fills the need till the next high) which suppresses any true doubts , chemical issues due to genetics, life issue... etc. when you don’t deal with these things for years.... they bubble up in aftershock waves. Most victims experience this as well. Also I agree shunning leaves a natural hole in your well being that takes time to heal not unlike death. Sometimes I feel it’s worse as it’s them making a choice to cut you out of their life which cuts deeper than if someone just died. Anyway - I could go on but I think I’ll leave room for more comments lol thanks for all you do and share- it’s healing and informative
Thanks for this video! I think many of us can relate! It's so good that you included the negatives! When I was in ( born and raised) I always had questions and doubts...even as a child! So I had lived with great fear and guilt for many years. When I left my reasoning was I could put on a mask and pretend to agree with everything BUT God knew how I felt deep down inside. So I didn't see the point in staying. But I still had guilt and fear. I left with my two children who were baptism age so I had these feelings hidden inside. For about 7 years I juggled these feelings! Those went away as soon as I watched the Australian Royal Commission and found out I was fearing men...men who lie, mislead and don't have Gods people's safety as a concern I realized I didn't have to feel that way anymore. I still have issues in the friend department as well. I question who my real friends were in the faith since the friendships were forced. I work from home...so it makes it even more difficult. I do have my husband's family and friends. They accepted me for who I am and love me not because they have to. ...they want to. It's hard to accept that. The world is not how Watchtower taught. There is true love for fellow man without it being forced or alternative motives! I have found comfort in ex JW'S. I think most who have left have this true love for one another. Sorry...didnt mean to write a book! Lol. This video really touched a nerve and it's good! I appreciate your honesty and your work to help people!
One of the changes I've experienced since leaving (it's been about almost a year and a half) I'm not depressed anymore. I feel free and not guilty. I'm also not as fearful of life, living. I'm living more now than I've ever lived in the 13 years that I was a witness.
Thank you for your honesty, time & consideration. It’s amazing that you even care enough to do this. 🙏🏻 I’ve been watching you for a few months now, but this one made want to comment/show support. In my head I left the org two yrs ago, after of the 2016 Annual Mtg! But I just physically y left a few months ago. But I’m convinced cutting ties was best thing I could do for myself. Interestingly, since I left I actually hit the gym & signed up for dance classes something I put off for years bcus of being bombarded with “Kingdom/spiritual things”. I was over weight with heart failure and pre-diabetes. Now my health & weight is at its best, as well as my overall moral. You & the many other Ex JWs video played a big part in helping me do what’s been in my head for two years of torment 😢 Thank you thank you thank you !!!!!!!!
I can't say I have any negatives for leaving the JWs, I don't feel as depressed as when I was a JW so I feel far more motivated to exercise and actively seek out friendships. My family are also largely quite hostile toward me so them shunning me is something of a blessing.
Excellent John Cedars! I feel exactly about the same as you since I left the organization. I am much more content with my life ever since. I am much more compassionate towards other people than I used to be when I was a Jehovah's Witness. As a matter of fact, being a Jehovah's Witness is living a very small life filled only with what the Government Body wants you to live or to do. I personally EXPELLED them completely out of my life. I love your videos!!! Thank you!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with depression after leaving. I've struggled with chronic anxiety and some depression since leaving and it angered and confused me since I knew I was happier overall. After contemplating it I came to some conclusions about its origins. The biggest one for me I think is coming to terms with my mortality and learning to live in the moment instead of counting down the days to armageddon. I have a lot of anger over my wasted youth. There is also new responsibilities in regards politics and taking care of our environment which never mattered before. It's like being dropped in the deep end of life.
Yes, shunning is whole matter in itself. It is very hurtful and always in the back of my mind. It does bring on a sorrow of the soul, even then we go on.
So far this is the best thing that I did for myself leaving this religion, I’ve never been so free my daughter stop going years before me my husband still faithful to them, I used to threaten my son about shunning me and than one day he stayed home and tell my husband no more Kingdom Hall for me, very happy now, if anyone wanted to shun me be my guest.
Yes, good point about the emotional bubble. I think you figured it out. I came into the JW org as a young mother suffering from post-partum depression. The Org. was like a drug to me and leaving it after 20+ years was like coming off an addictive drug. It seemed as if all the emotions that I hadn't dealt with before I was a JW came back to me. I think that leaving the Org after being raised in it (I wasn't) would have its own special challenges. You may have emotions spring up that you had never had to deal with without the drugs they were passing out at the KH. And to compound all that--the shunning. I was explaining my shunning to a non-JW friend just yesterday. She was horrified. But I survived it and better now being on the other side of it. Life is much fuller and I can really relax now. And yes, I feel that I can truly love my neighbors now without restrictions and that truly feels more moral to me.
What a profound, nuanced and insightful video. You have such a gift for articulating/putting into words feelings/thoughts I've have/had (Perhaps due to my lack of education.) but haven't been able to express orally or even in my own head. Thamk you, sir.
My grandmother disassociated herself from the jw church in 1984, the year after my parents were married. I was born in 1987, and as a result didn't meet her until after I disassociated myself, 18 years later. This church has scarred my family for 3 generations, and yet my parents will proudly pick the wound. I'm 31 now, and yet still at times a rush of depression envelops me as well. For all the good I've done in my life a sense of self-worth is lacking. I forged ahead for 13 years solo, and have only recently began to reach out to the exjw community. It's helped me immensely. I've learnt that can't give myself a life sentence for a crime I haven't committed. I've come to terms that I was indeed brainwashed. And whether or not I had the correct initial motivations for leaving the church, the net result is that I have made the best of choices removing my brain from that Pharisaical vice. Thank you for all the effort you put into to your work Lloyd.
Thank you Lloyd.... I was a third generation JW ..... my awakening process has taken a lot of time. Now I’m completely out and free . Things are a little bit different here in Italy. Because a few people knowing what happened in USA and Australia about paedophilic abuses in the JW organisation. Your thoughts and research have helped me and finally I’ve taken the decision to leave. I like thinking that you and your family are my friends. So I don’t feel lonely.
Thanks for sharing this Lloyd, I can imagine it was not the easiest to share. I could relate to some of what you said, being so bothered about doctrine at the beginning (trinity) and the overall feeling of being liberated but overwhelmed with depressive emotions. My hope is that eventually we will adjust and learn the skills to find "normalcy and contentment". It must help to have a wife who completely gets it. I stopped attending meetings in July 2011 but did not fully wake up until this year.
When I left JW, I went from having a plethora of friends to having zero. As much as I loving being free from that religion, the loneliness can be very overwhelming. I have nobody now, no friends and no family. As a shy person, I find it hard to make new friends and I have some trust issues with getting close to people now - after the sting of having the very people who told me they would "stick closer than a brother" leave and shun me simply because I no longer wanted to practice the same religion as them. I get solace and strength from videos like these. They help me feel less alone. Thank you!
It will get easier, I promise. I have been out for quite a while now and you WILL make some truly wonderful friends. ...built on genuine caring not conditional. Give it time.
The “enjoyment of giving” hit home to me. I remember always feeling so empty whenever I would do something really nice for someone else. No more hollow actions!
Thank you for sharing your inner self with your viewers, Lloyd. I too, despite much appreciated freedom from nonsensical beliefs, am left living with an undercurrent of sadness at the many lost opportunities for wonderful family interactions, but for the fact that my family who are still in consider changing ones way of looking at life as a reason to cut off any interaction even as their twisted minds are conditioned to see shunning as a gesture of "love". Pahlease. I could go on but I know you already know.
Your reflection mirrors many of us whom have woken up. I feel I Am more moral in the sense that I’m moral because it’s in my heart it’s the person I am whereas before it was a duty . I believe that you have a great big heart and that’s why you want to expose the cult, hence no one else will get tricked and hurt. The weight might also be that it’s very difficult to gain control of our emotions when we start our new life. I think many of us are either, lost, hurt or in a state of shock. Great video. Thank you.
I relate to much of this. Regarding depression, I was definitely depressed as a JW, but it got worse once I left and got into therapy. My therapist talked a lot initially about how I’d spent years staying busy to avoid feeling uncomfortable emotions, basically distracting myself. The positive in all of this is that as I learn to sit with my discomfort, I am better able to be present with my emotions and the depression has lessened a lot.
I really enjoy the way you explain things. One way I have changed positively is I am now at peace with God and feel that I have found the real truth. But I also get depressed at times thinking about my family that is shunning me now (mother and brother). I thought it was so sad that your dad won’t even meet your daughter, my mom still sees my kids sometimes so I do get to see her briefly on occasion, but I haven’t seen or spoken to my brother in several years and when he comes into town he won’t reach out to my kids or try to see them. I feel the same as you, it is a stab right in the heart whenever I let myself think about it.
This is such a good video! I wish I had known how tough losing friends would be, I'd have replaced the meeting times with evening classes straight away to make up for the lack of social time. I've found mindful self- compassion amazingly helpful for the depression that's come from it for me! Thank you for sharing!!
You're right, it's tough losing friends and loved ones. But think of this... There are around 8.45 million Jehovah's Witlesses (a childish jab, but I cannot resist it). Of those only 144,000 go to heaven (where they apparently do administrative scutwork for eternity). The remainder get to spend eternity on Earth (renovated and refurbished by the original manufacturer, good as new) trying to grow food and build their own house (I'm crap at bricklaying, but I suppose after a million years I'd get the hang of it). Anyway, that means only 1.7% of Witnesses go to heaven. Call it 2% to simplify the calculations. Humans typically only know around 100-200 people. In some professions, like teaching, you get to know more, but for most of us 200 is an upper limit and 100 is more typical. Most of those 100-200 are mere acquaintances, not loved ones or friends, but I'll give them promotions. You have 100 loved ones and friends. Do the maths (or math, if you're in the US). If you're one of the lucky 144,000 who goes to heaven, the chances are *only one* of your loved ones and friends will be there with you. The other 98 will be on Earth, trying to build a house and grow food. Look at it from their perspective: they've lost a couple of people they know, but they each have 97 loves ones/friends still around them. I thought going to heaven was supposed to be a *reward.* It seems more like being disfellowshipped. For eternity. The point I'm making is this. Their doctrines are batshit insane. You've gained more than you lost. You've gained your sanity. Be happy.
Lloyd I think some of the sadness we feel is seeing people who you love and care for and in your heart you know are good people. so trapped and conflicted and controlled to the point that they believe they are doing the right thing by shunning those they love. and how even though you've helped so many to come back to reality. those who you personally love haven't come to reality and there's still stuck in there delusional world. and that's a sadness/ depression that I'm sure others myself included who have left a cult suffer from. But like you overall I'm happier living in reality. Nothing is perfect and that's ok Another good video
Thank you for such an honest conversation, inspiring self-inventory immediately. One idea i got about the emotional waves that hit so hard, is maybe people underestimate the time it takes to peel away all the layers of programming. I think it takes many years and maybe never gets over with. --I can very much appreciate what you said about being more naturally generous. Most JW we knew were stingy as Scrooge. They lived with many shortages, lack of sufficient income, trying to project a generosity while resenting any expenditures for others. For example, I've never seen people so reluctant to tip for service. And they really felt like if they gave a dime they would never get it back, with all their talk of receiving blessings by giving to Jehovah (actually WT corp). I heard it expressed so much, how hard everyone worked, how difficult it was to get hold of money, how much they resented having to work for money; that was a constant theme over the years. --We have changed in that we're not afraid to say NO, which means we're more honest with ourselves and others. We feel freer to be open, not trying to create false impression or be people pleasers. That's an enormous change for me in particular.
Jez! I forgot that. I hated it so much that by the end I started to cheat or going with a friend and talking to someone in the street every hour and make that count
I really appreciate the honesty in outlining and addressing the “negatives” of leaving JW. As an ex-Mormon, I can relate on both sides of the +\- of leaving, even considering I was asked to stop attending church with my family at age 11.
A nicely reflective video, Lloyd, showing your more compassionate view of others. You are absolutely right about what is gained and what is lost in leaving the organization. I listened to your discussing the list of changes and felt very moved by your observations. Like you, I also believe I am a more moral person now than I ever was as a JW. I think about my beliefs as a JW when I had no problem believing the greater bulk of humankind - including babies and children - would be destroyed simply because they or their caregivers don't follow the controlling directives of Governing Body I simply do not recognize that smug man i used to be as a JW. I can see this video being hugely informative and affirming for many, many people. Thank you L,oyd.
I totally get you two (20:20). In my case, I feel as sad as I used to feel as a Christian. I don't think that hasn't changed in me. But I think that the happiness I feel now is genuine. I guess this is something apostates can understand better, we can make a comparison of those emotional states. I loved this video. Inspiring.
Possibly the clue for the reason you’re more generous and giving now was found in your next comment about being none judgemental. When you’re a witness you feel constrained by those judgements. “How would Jehovah feel if I gave money to a charity for AIDS sufferers” for example, we were taught, albeit subliminally, to only give to those who deserve it, i e Jehovah’s Witnesses or the organisation. Your naturally generous kind spirit was hobbled by the cruel judgements you,(and all of us) were forced to make of our fellow man.
One theory, to quote:- Marx believed that religion had certain practical functions in society that were similar to the function of opium in a sick or injured person: it reduced people's immediate suffering and provided them with pleasant illusions (Wikipedia). Withdrawal literally leads to symptoms similar to depression. So possibly the feeling of depression is actually a withdrawal symptom, especially considering the high opioid dose that a promise of life in paradise gave..
Uthen six I'm not religious at all now but I think Marx was wrong about alot of things including comparing religion to opium. Religion probably has alot more utility to society and the social fabric. Ppl get alot of eudonic happiness from a religious(or a group with tightly held beliefs) group with a higher purpose that they just don't experience from hedonism. Even the atheist groups strike me as creating their own philosophical group that takes on all the trappings of a religious group. It's probably part of being human.
You are by far one of the most eloquent speakers I listen to. It was as if you were telling my story. I have always been an introvert but more so since leaving. And to be honest I trust people less now. I genuinely want your father to reach out to you. But, please know you are a shining light to so many. Thank you.
mark reed thank you for sharing your story. This organization has destroyed so many lives. I hope more people will open their eyes and leave. Sorry for what you went through
In JW you the perfection demanded to promote the desires of evil, now that the potted lid of perfection has been released I find no desire for the evil things. My life is calm at home, fewer interests of riches or material things. I find myself more patient with others and when coming across someone of rudeness I think of what may have caused their action. I give more of the benefit of a doubt. I learned who I was. My true like and dislikes. For the first time, I could breathe. When I first left JW I did not know what I wanted. Took me quite a while to figure what made me, ME. I have peace. (I still smoke.) Friendship, you hit a sore point for me. I want a friend and companion, but do not have those social skills. It is so awkward to me. How to make friends. I found this out about myself. Never knew this when I was in the JW's. My love to all you ex-JW's... xoxo
On the point of depression I have two thoughts. First, while a Witness I knew depression was viewed as a sign of weak faith. So I was in a lot of denial about it. Another thing is that while in the cult, you’re in a false reality where you feel you’re one of the few on the planet that truly understands the reason for things and what’s to come. I felt insulated from problems of the world because I was under the delusion that I was in a safe bubble. It is depressing to find out that the organization you once viewed as a life line was nothing but a pack of lies propagated by 7 flawed human beings that are pulling everyone’s strings. And the shunning creates unspeakable emotional damage. That alone is an outstanding reason to be an activist. To keep others from making the mistake of baptism. And to call attention to the real harm that the organization causes. Tangible damage to people’s lives. It broke my heart to see sweet little Jessica sitting at her grandfather’s doorstep. The cult is evil and destructive, but deluded into believing they are God’s chosen few. The more truth about the truth that gets exposed, the better.
I think you are right! As a JW, we see depression as a sign of weakness, a sign that you arent as faithful, that you dont go out in service as much. Whenever I told my elders I was dealing with depression, the response I always got was..."you need to go out in service more and it will go away."
@@elzevierjaviergarcia890 My reading comprehension is pretty good but for some reason, I can't understand what you have written here. Are you saying people have depression because they don't pray enough? If you didn't say that then please disregard the rest of my post and have a wonderful day. I first remember being suicidal at age 4 and I was already praying to Jehovah by that time. I continued praying constantly for relief in every conceivable way for 44 years...to no avail. Are 44 years not long enough to reach a conclusion? Perhaps looking up the definition of insanity would help you a bit. I finally came to the realization he wasn't going to answer me...
@@elzevierjaviergarcia890 I don't understand your reply. You're saying people should not pray to god and ask for relief? I never asked him to cure my bipolar. I asked him to help me enough so that I could be an effective Witness for him. I asked him to take it away enough so that I did not kill myself. But that never happened so of course, I thought it was all my fault. But the point is moot, now, however, since I have left that cult and gotten into therapy. I found out that I did not, in fact, have bipolar, but I have PDST from being raised in an abusive family in a cult. My life has changed 100%. Nameste, Elzevier. :)
I've just started watching various exJW videos and although I was never baptized I was born-in and steeped heavily in the fear. The trauma from this "religion" affected all throughout my life long after leaving. Since learning the real truth about this cult I've noticed I feel lighter, like the weight of guilt has been lifted. My anxiety has noticeably subsided and I don't stress eat like I used to. I'm starting to feel healthier, happier and free from residual guilt and fear that have been with me since childhood. Like you I wish I had found out about the real truth much sooner. Better late then never. Thank you for all your work!
Dear Lloyd. I have been studying the Bible with the witnesses in the early 1990s, and although I did not join them, their teaching left me a very deep mark. After I left them, my life became troubled because of the teaching. Then came the internet age, and I found plenty of information about them, about their teachings. But the good relationship with God has not yet come back. That's why I watch these videos to get to know other points of view, the experiences of other people who have left the organization. I wish to you more successful video production! This was good as well as the rest! Sincerely, Tibor from Hungary
That was one of the best videos you’ve ever produced, Lloyd, and that’s saying a lot. Thank you SO much for sharing such personal thoughts and feelings. It’s very brave of you. I’m not and have never been a JW but I am sure that this video will be helpful to many people struggling to disengage themselves from their JW life. And yes, depression is a bitch, I know personally, but dealing with it head on and some times with the help of proper medication, it can be managed. Anyway, thanks again, and I hope to meet you someday and offer my hand in friendship. Can never have enough of those. Be well.
Thankyou - it is always healthy to give permission (even by example ) for people to speak. As for experiencing depressive moments it is absolutely normal when you are faced with as you said shunning, even those of us without family in there - it is still a hit when you know you will be thought of negatively by those, that at one point, their thinking well of you was one of a priority. Also dealing with the feelings of being naive, a nice way of saying feeling stupid for being taken in by a cult. For realising the time there has been a huge waste of your time and talents. Maybe like me you are nearly 60 with very little financial backing and the future looks very scary as you realise this is it with no ‘future’ pay off including getting your youth back. However with all of this I can enjoy what ever time I do have on my own terms and do what I can with my experience to help others. Again Thankyou as there will be many thinking they should be happy but still grappling with feelings such as you have opened up about.
Thanks Lloyd for your videos. It really helps me a lot to have freedom from the guilt and burden inside my head since I left 13 years ago. I can also relate on the changes and the feelings you have experienced. I can say, I am also happier now since I can pursue my passion on music. Cheers!!!
Woah when you started talking about depression, it totally is true. I am happier, but more depressed. And the darkness is over whelming, and wanting to be alone. The feeling of not belonging anywhere. Thanks for talking about that.
Hi Lloyd, I really appreciate your sharing the difficult parts of leaving, and especially your sense of depression. I'm not a psychologist either, but it makes a lot of sense that being in a high control group gives people a sense of meaning and belonging. The history of humanity is, by and large, being members of very small communities, where there was usually some man or men in town who, more of less explicitly, set expectations for people. It's only in modern life where we''re trying to construct ways to live that are non-manipulated -- and ie, lonely. Glad you have your wife.
I can really relate to a lot of what you said. I experienced a lot of depression since I was a teenager, however the depression I felt after leaving the organization was different. It takes time to process everything (I don't know that we'll ever be finished) and it also takes time to find your "tribe". I talk a lot about this on my channel and in fact you inspired the last part of my most recent video where I talk about your video and struggles you and your wife have had with building a new social network since you've left. This all takes time. Thank you for your honesty and all the work you do.
Very candid and honest. It would have been easy for you to omit the negatives for obvious reasons. And as I watched the video I started picturing lots of comments from people who know exactly what you are talking about and that's exactly what I saw. It's just human nature when you go from this constant "artificial" happiness to the hard reality that each of us are personally responsible for our lives, not the old guys in NY and there are no 2nd chances, it's traumatic. It's like having the rug pulled out from under you. Witnesses absolutely relish pointing out people who become self-destructive or maybe go down hill in some ways after leaving because then they can say "see!, that's what happens without Jah!". All the while being somehow either oblivious or apathetic to the fact that that person has quite possibly just endured severe and lasting trauma. Awesome video thank you Lloyd!
Great video Lloyd, totally agree. After I was abandoned by the borg, I was so lost. Never had any "worldly friends and my jw "friends" totally shunned me because of my mom. Never met any ex jws until I discovered your channel. You helped me not feel so weird, damned and lost. I still have problems with people, but I try to be nice to all and listen to all opinions. Thank you for making these videos, all your hard work and dealing with your detractors. I think you save people's lives and seriously help with regaining the sanity needed to live a good life....thank you and thank you Deanna for allowing you to spend so much time on helping others...and Jessica is just too adorable
I have so much respect for you just listening.I hope that some day in the not too distant future your daughter will meet her grand dad. That made me cry because I know how much I love my 2 grand children. Good luck and Hod bless. I was never a JW but I really enjoy listening to you. My grandad was a witness but he died when I was 7 years old so I never got to learn too much about the faith.
I think you are spot on about friends, it’s really really hard to make friends for me to make new ones now, there’s a loneliness from not having people that knew you most of your life. I recently went to visit a cousin that was my favorite when we were lil, had not seen her In 30 yrs, I cannot tell you the feelings I had of seeing someone who knew me, Truly knew me, there was a connection, I was overwhelmed, there are a few still JW friends who shun me that I would feel the same about. Shunning is such a cruel practice. Thank you for this video “as always” I Truly enjoyed it.😊
This video was serious for me because it explores our own reasons for, when , what, how, who and finally why we should examine ourselves. In other words, the more we gather evidence for our own belief system we can understand more profoundly who we are then the watchtower's claims of who we OUGHT to be. When I do a self probe I notice when i left the high control influence organization I am more prone to accept people for who they are and not by what I'm told. These people aren't evil, or when I was a witness we called people who aren't witnesses from "Egypt". As if they are going to die, at least they will eventually in a witness point of view. I'm free! I am happy to celebrate ME and love ME and not 7 men in New York who tell me how to live. Nor a God who allow this kind of bad behaviour.
Thank you for this video. I share the majority of your points. I am much better off now but since I left however I have always struggled with friendship. But I wouldn't change the life I am living right now for anything in the world. I am free from the anxiety and from the tension by racing against yourself and others in order to get privileges or to be appointed as elder etc., and the massive disappointment when those wouldn't arrive. Thanks again Lloyd.
I recently left the organisation and I can relate to everything that you have said. I really enjoy and love watching your channel. Totally agree with everything you say. I got emotional for you on the part of the shunning from your dad cause I can relate to this myself. Keep posting your videos I think your doing an amazing job.
I'm with ya, Bro! 'To thine own self be true'. We can't be something we are not even out of love for someone we hold dear. The aspect of 'disowning oneself for God' would be alright if it were really for God and not for some human institution that couldn't care less about us.
Abigail Parker Like you, I was not shunned either. At least by my family. Friends? Maybe a few shunned me, but I really didn't care if they did or did not.
There are those in town (a very small town) and the surraounding area who actively shun me. I have gotten to a place where I truly do not care. I even now have compassion and empathy for some who seem genuinely afraid or disdainful of me. I was once as they were, blindly obedient and terrified of those who had "fallen away." It never felt right, but I too shunned. It feels fabulous to be in a place of freedom and peace. I can choose my own thoughts, beliefs, feelings, decisions--my very life is now mine --and to feel free from needing to judge others--even those who judge me. I truly believe most JWs are victims of victims and I wish them well, hope they too find their way to freedom.
Abigail Parker - once the “victims” hear REAL truth & reject it over & over or go into denial, at what point are they no longer a victim of watchtower but are a supporter of a cult?
One thing I have found, after leaving and a few years of very good counseling for anxiety, is that most of what I thought was depression was actually painful anxiety. So today, when I feel "depression", it is usually fear I am feeling, not depression. Sadness is not the same as depression. Sadness is a separate emotion that is appropriate for sad things such as grief or types of disappointment. I suggest that all people, when you are feeling "depressed", ask yourself what it is you are really feeling? Maybe it is fear of something. Maybe you are feeling appropriate sadness or disappointment. Figure out what emotion you are really feeling and mistakenly labeling depression. Clinical depression isn't something fleeting. Appropriate emotions are more fleeting and temporary.
I didn't come out of JW, but I was, for a long time, hardcore Christian. I'm now an atheist, and I am more leery of telling anyone of my new belief system. Where I work is probably +90% Conservative Christian. I know of people who have been fired and treated like crap when it came out they were atheist. As far as mental state, I feel more empathy and compassion. Overall, I'm happier than I was as a Christian. People I thought were friends, are no longer friends. They've become acquaintances. Mostly because they can't have a conversation beyond Jesus. I'm more of an activist than I ever thought of being. I speak my mind more freely than I ever have, but in a tactful way. Since there are no Gods or Satans to blame anymore, life feels more urgent. Time is more precious now than it was. It's scary sometimes. I still have PTSD about Hell, even though I don't believe in it.
I defiantly understand the feeling of depression in respects of shunning. The reality is you know in your heart and by your actions you and your wife are loving people. Much in the way I know that it is true of myself. The desire to show love to your family and others by your actions has been intensified by your waking up. Contrast that with the feeling of being thrown away like common garbage even though you know your value as a human being. I struggle with those feelings as I deal with how my mother has rejected my sisters and I for not being part of the religion anymore. It angers me sometimes. I am faced with the thought, who does she think she is to throw me away or reject me? Especially in my case when she has done so many egregious things, yet has gotten away with them, because she never confessed to the elders about her behaviour. The physical, mental and emotional abuse she would dish out to us. I realize that that is not everyone's experience, but it was mine. My "father" was never a witness but he was also never a father. So I grew up with two emotionally absent parents who were preoccupied by their own needs and wants. Knowing that and what kind of parent I am and how I view that very important roll set me apart from how grew up. And now I am faced ,along with my sisters, with the very real fact that our mother just does not value us at all. We have no importance to her unless we go back to something that she believes. It was never important to her to know each of us. It was never important for her value our life experience and what we have learned. If I was a man she most defiantly would treat me differently. I am not sure if she would have chosen to do what she done. But the shunning, even though I have never been disfellowshipped, is very real. And the struggle to come to terms with that or even understand it still baffles me. It doesn't make sense to me on so many levels. You are not alone in your feelings though the reasons may vary on why those feelings are there.
Hi John. I would recommend morning walks and evening walks. It will help you get fit physically and mentally. As someone who was a jw, I find myself more at peace and lighter after being active.
Thank you Lloyd, I think you described things brilliantly. Especially the part about being depressed. I do not regret leaving or my decision to leave the organization at all. How you described now feeling that full spectrum of feelings and emotions is accurate, but I also find myself not really trusting people. I’m an introvert by nature so I’ve never really wanted to be around a lot of people. It has to do with my hearing and that I have tinnitus. It effects my nerves. Plus I’ve been through a lot of abuse. It’s has really helped me a great deal hearing that others who used to be JW actually feel similar to how I feel. Sometimes it’s hard listening to you put God down, but now we are free to be different and not all have to believe the same. There is one thing I know for a certainty, I know that the Jehovah’s Witnesses do NOT know the TRUTH about Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Friend: what truly is a friend? The definition changes when anyone becomes an adult. You learn to differentiate between acquaintances , people you know more closely and true, close friends. With Jehovah's Witnesses, you think you have lots of friends. But think back, how many of them were truly close confidants? How many were just people you knew, rather than strangers, and how many were truly friends?
Very insightful Loyd! I can't help but agree that shunning contributes to your bouts of depression. And I only hope that over time it diminishes in intensity. My experience was the opposite. I experienced severe pain and depression during 14 of the 18 years I was a witness and for years afterwards. After 25 years of directing my own life, making my own decisions and being responsible for them, I can truly say I am not depressed. It's has been a long painful journey with a good outcome :) I am happy and I am not depressed. The shunning, like so many other things, never made sense to me. It pains me to see families like yours suffering its terrible effects. I appreciate your work Loyd. You are very talented. For many years, I was not in the loop until I came upon your website, and I learned for the first time about the child sex abuse, UN membership, and also JW Broadcasting, etc. I have family who are still very active so it's nice to know what is going on. We are all human and perfectly capable of directing our own lives solving our challenges. Thanks for all your videos. Wish you all the best!
I’d love to meet you one day, it’s so refreshing to hear someone who KNOWS what it’s like! I left 4 years ago, and I wasn’t even baptised - but brought up since childhood. I’m so with you about friends too, I have fewer friends and making friendships is so hard bc they’ve always been on a plate and worldly people have always been demonised.
I'm not surprised that you feel more moral now that you're out. The moral feeling in an individual can only thrive when they are being honest with themselves and can freely speak their mind.
I'm truly happy that you and your family are free Take evening walks with your family, its exercise and will give you a family activity Friends are highly overrated, quality over quantity. You are not depressed. You are decompressing. Look at it this way, you have been under very tight mind control that gave you very specific and limited ways the emotions were allowed to be expressed. But now your free, your emotions are free. How do you deal with all those free emotions with out the tightly structured control of religion. You lost your friends, your dad, your community and your structure. You'll get there. Deep breaths 💚
You mentioned exercising more and I agree it's needed. I'm a 39 yr old guy who just DA'd and am experiencing shunning myself. I've managed to stop drinking through a better diet. Specifically KETO aka a no carbohydrate diet. My weight has dropped and my mood has improved. They say getting healthy is more nutritional than anything. It's 100% true. Eat yourself to a better you. There's my unsolicited advice lol. Thank you for your videos! I can relate to your story, we're about the same age. I was born in and served in Central America when I was 19. Your vids help me out alot. They also played a small role in helping me turn in my official DA letter 2 weeks ago! Cheers from Texas!
Ditto Ditto Ditto As an ex scientologist there are parallels between the pluses of leaving scientology and the negatives. I really appreciate you talking about the depression. Ditto. Deep depression and it was therapeutic listening to your take on why. I lost my son to scientology and the shunning is beyond my control. Also, if I were to psychoanalyze myself a little bit more I would say part of the reason behind the depression is because I lost something that gave me the answers - the bubble you speak of - even though it's faux. Out here in the big world I have to figure it out myself. :) Having said that, I also agree with you that I am FAR happier being out of this oppressive "religion" and hope one day my son will be out, too - for his sake.
As for me :no more extreme anxiety, no more unnecessary stress, no more making a fool of myself, I'm better off financially, my relationships are better especially with my family and true friends and best of all I'm actually learning from the Bible and am getting a more reasonable understanding of it, best of all I'm not actively denying JC a their memorial year after year 😊
Loyd, thank you for sharing such a personal part of yourself. I appreciate your willingness to open yourself up to such vulnerability. With regard to experiencing more depression post religion, I (while not an ex-JW) have definitely had that experience after exiting my religion (Southern Baptist Christian). There are a few reasons this may occur, I think. For one thing, there was a certain amount of pressure as a Christian to NOT be depressed, because being depressed was stigmatized as some sort of spiritual failure to fully connect with God (for how could one fully connected to God be depressed - surely the result had to be Joy!). So, I think I did a fair amount of talking myself into being "joyful" (i.e. denial). Secondly after my exit was complete and especially after I came to fully realize and acknowledge to myself that the truth was that I was agnostic (rather than my earlier thoughts that perhaps there WAS definitely a God, but I just wasn't sure who he/she/it was or the nature thereof), that meant that I was then the master of my own fate, the author of my own life. That sounds like it would be a good thing, and it IS...mostly. But the side effect of that is, when things go wrong, I have to take full responsibility for it. No longer can it be chalked up to some working of the Almighty (perhaps some blessing in disguise, part of a greater plan, etc.) or (ironically?) the work of dark forces against which I must just pray harder. When I walked away, I was alone. I alone was responsible for whatever good or bad happened to me. That meant that there was no "sky daddy" to whom I could always turn with any problem. That, coupled with the isolation that comes with not being involved in a church in this part of the world (the rural Deep South of America) was a recipe for depression. It's been hard to overcome and I admit, even ten years on, there are still times I MISS the Beautiful Blissful Blind Belief. It is a strange thing, isn't it?
I am much less judgmental than I used to be, I lost weight because of too much drinking and only drink occasionally now. I too am less selfish and think of others in a more healthy way but the most important change for me is I have friends who truly love me. I always had associates from work and so when I left I didn't feel that pull of loneliness. I have better friends in fact because they aren't looking at me through a magnifying glass. I am getting married next year and the them is steampunk, something that would NEVER be tolerated if I was still a JW. Your video was very informative (as always) and I enjoy listening to a perspective of reason. One negative is I have acquired a unconventional language which pops out of nowhere at times, but I'm working on that. Being around my JW mother is challenging because she would never tolerate me dropping the F bomb.
![Eminem - Fuel (feat. JID) [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5H_CewqpKA/mqdefault.jpg)
One thing I categorically can say since I left the Organisation, is that I feel much much less Judgemental. And a lot more easing going with Strangers. Your not always having an US v Them mentality. People are just people.
Feel the same as an xmormon.
I agree wholeheartedly. And it's a burden to judge. JWs definitely don't follow the Bible on that one. Too much hierarchy in their organization. Too many people playing elder, or spiritual police.
Absolutely agree!
Same. I'm trying anyway. It's a hard mindset to get out of.
In the Bible it says god gave us a conscious to judge not people but your self.
John, we all struggle with fitness after a certain age. I used to get up and walk 30 minutes every morning and the weight fell off. Got out of the habit and gained weight! You are a handsome man with a dazzling smile. Plus you have a beautiful wife and daughter. You are lucky and strong. Keep getting your message out. Hugs!
You're a beautiful human, just thought that you should know this. Thank you for the mountains of GOOD that you do, every day. And last, thank you for being so brave and putting yourself out there, for the world to see & hear your story 🎯 That alone, has changed so many pple's lives, probably more than you'll ever know. The world is a better place, w/ you in it 😊
You took the words right out of my mouth! I feel so indebted to this wonderful man. He had such a calming effect on me when i was in turmoil over my decision to leave. I too have been freed now from so many negative emotions about others. I feel happy for the first time in years.
Christy Santiago Absolutely!!!
Lloyd, I only stumbled across your informative and intellectually stimulating podcasts and videos this year. In that short time I've learned SO MUCH, please keep up the activism and the humour, you are very much appreciated!
Christy, this guy is drawing people away.from our heavenly father. Jehovah,,,
I like you Lloyd 😊 You may have less friends but they aren’t conditional now.
Very true
Another change: you no longer say “leaving the Truth”, now is leaving the witnesses
Perhaps the "organization" ?
I was a JW for 38 years. When I was in, my conversations were always guarded in case I said the wrong thing. I felt restricted, isolated and unable to express myself honestly. Now I'm out I'm more open and honest, no longer worried of the occasional freudian slip and I speak my own truth, not what others expects to hear. It's very liberating!
You make really interesting points that resonate with me. Dijana’s point that you give more now out of generosity than out of a sense of duty is how I feel about myself also. Regarding morals, I got in touch with my own moral compass rather than looking through watchtower’s lens. I found out that I am a tolerant person who tends to empathize, sometimes too much, and likes to take up for the little guy in situations where I see injustice. Before it was just this cold, uninvolved feeling that the whole world is satanic anyway so nothing and no one matters. So leaving made me more loving and interested in my fellow humans.
On the idea of being "less selfish". I think it's really really hard to reach out and help others when you can't "give from the overflow". It's hard to take care of others when who you are is broken, drained, exhausted, and burnt out. Compassion and giving comes from not just having the material items to give, but the emotional resources. And, when you're constantly depleting yourself by giving all of you to the org, or to future witnesses, you don't have anything left to care about those around you. Your cup is dry.
When you feel more fulfilled as a PERSON, you feel grounded and planted, and full of love and happiness and freedom, reaching out and helping others is a JOY. You want them to feel what you have and you have SO much to give. And, that's just not the case when you're running on empty, your affections are being carefully redirected, your attention is calculated by the org, and you're disallowed any self-compassion. It's almost impossible to give when you're in need. So, it makes perfect sense that you'd have that ability now.
Kaalyn - OPG, very true.
This. Is. So. True!!!
Yes, you cant help others when you yourself are drained and miserable.
Yes, we were told that the best way to show our neighbor "love," was to bring them the "Good News of God's Kingdom." :-/ LOL
Thank you for this special video. We always appreciate your videos, but this one is extraordinary because it is so personal. We left JWs as a familiy (parents in the late 40th an teenage kids) 7 years ago. All of us have been raised as JWs and leaving the JWs has been the most challenging experience in our whole life. Although we've had a lot of struggles (including anxiety disorder and depression) we are so happy to live a satisfying and free life. Most of the time we enjoy the great variety of emotions we are able to feel (and express) now. We realy feel alive. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Now that we know *we demand a video with Lloyd playing and singing.*
Lloyd, I can totally relate to both the pluses and minuses of leaving the Jehovah’s Witness religion. I “thought” I had such good friends as a witness, as my social life was always in high gear. But, the reality is that we were friends solely on a conditional basis. And unfortunately, that holds true for family as well. I was lucky though that my mom never shunned me, as she was smarter then to accept that irresponsible policy. So friends we lost who are still in the “truth” and who shun us, I guess were never real friends anyway.
I really feel for ex jws who are being shunned by their families. I was a witness for 28 years with no family in the cult and when I heard about the ARC I became furious and didn’t want anything to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses.I’ve been fading for one year now and all I want to do is give back to society for the time I lost during all those years. I want to volunteer for instance in a food bank, give blood, give my time at the SPCA. I truly believe that giving to others help one feel better. Thank you Lloyd for this video I really appreciate your work it helped me a lot.
Thanks for sharing your candid and honest thoughts Lloyd. I can relate to all of them. I'll add that one of the biggest benefits for me is in resolving a lot of the negative impacts associated with the cognitive dissonance you have as a 'thinking' JW. Realising that the answer to the question "Is this life all there is?" is Yes, enables you to accept and deal with the realities (good and bad) of life more effectively, be more accepting of others, and definitely live more in the moment instead of believing the 'real life' is something in the future. Still making the transition after 50 odd years as a born in and your channel is a great help. Many thanks!
Depression is what I suffer from. Even though I walked away from the religion many years ago, I still was not awake. I just figured I'd live my life the way I wanted to then die in Armageddon. I "woke" up literally 2 1/2 years ago. It truly hit me like a ton of bricks. My depression came from realizing I was lied to and realizing I was dumb enough to believe most of that. Ironically, what gave me peace (I know many on this channel don't believe it) was reading the bible for myself and seeing the "true" blessings I really have. I occasionally go to a non-denominational christian church, but mostly I study on my own. Prayer and meditation help me.... yoga helps. :) I really have managed my depression. Trust me, I realize that for many, God is a fantasy. I don't see that. It's my choice and believe in my heart that He is real. BUT no longer being a JW has given me the tolerance to accept people for who they are; not look down on them because they are atheist, Muslim, Jewish, gay, or whatever. Life is hard enough without having to deal with bigotry.
@@Goonapachamoothoo If you believe in what the Watchtower has to offer, you should not be here. You should not be reading this. I think those who are in but can help themselves but to read what ex-JWs are reading are not as "faithful" to the JW organization as they think they are.
Through it all, I have concluded there are more benefits for me outside of the JW's than when I was a JW.
I will also say that a HUGE change for me was finally realizing that seeing a therapist was a GOOD thing and taking advantage of that myself! Even after 2 HORRIBLY abusive marriages (which I feel I ended up in due to the "submissive wife" JW dogma), I was terrified at the thought of telling my secrets to a "worldly" stranger! But, it was one of the best things I ever did for ME and I would recommend it to anyone who has had similar experiences or struggled with depression, which I have, as well. My therapist had never really met a JW before, only knew them from them knocking on her door. After our first couple sessions, she did a lot of research (which really impressed me) and she couldn't believe they were the same group! She was the one who first got me to understand that being a "good wife" and being a punching bag were two VERY different things! And, as someone who was nearly killed (literally) on at least 5 occasions, that was a very important thing to learn!
I am in fact so much happier outside of the org.. I mainly left bc it wasn’t in my heart to serve Jehovah but now that I am awake I see all the hypocrisy in the religion.. my wake up call was the Australian royal commission amongst their false doctrines!! Thank you for your amazing videos Lloyd :) ps I’m literally binge watching all your rebuttals
The part about depression is because we are kind of in a limbo, like what’s next and what did we loose? You have lost a lot like family. It hurts.
John/Lloyd you said that you have less friends now, but you also pointed out that JW friendship is artificial and conditional. The friends that you have now may be fewer in number, but they are TRUE friends. One true friend is worth half a dozen artificial ones! You also said that you were less healthy now. Did you know that there are many physical conditions/illnesses that can cause Depression? It maybe something to look into if your Depression continues. Just a thought.
Yes, I was thinking about the conditional aspect of JW friendship for that part during the edits, although thankfully I mentioned it later in the video. You make a great point. :)
But Llyod,you can still believe invthe Bible and not see women as 2nd class ....however the Bible it self puts women as nothing but chattel you can read it in the New T.
Take care Llyod alot of creative people suffer from depresdion.Get help We need you.
So without writing a novel here (and I’ll probably fail at that)... this hit home for me as I’m sure it will for most honest hearted watchers. I especially was touched ( I found my self tearing up a bit) by your point 3 in the negatives. I kept grasping for the words to explain this feeling as well when it hits you and I think you said it well that the “packaged IV fed happiness” the JWs constantly inject in you is more like a false euphoria (we’ve all experienced this when we would go to the conventions in the summer - it’s an emotional pill that fills the need till the next high) which suppresses any true doubts , chemical issues due to genetics, life issue... etc. when you don’t deal with these things for years.... they bubble up in aftershock waves. Most victims experience this as well. Also I agree shunning leaves a natural hole in your well being that takes time to heal not unlike death. Sometimes I feel it’s worse as it’s them making a choice to cut you out of their life which cuts deeper than if someone just died. Anyway - I could go on but I think I’ll leave room for more comments lol thanks for all you do and share- it’s healing and informative
You’ve changed so much (beyond the beard 😂 ) but you still have a tonne of focus and drive. Something I always remember you having.
Thanks my friend! It means a lot to have you back in my life - one of only a handful who knew me in my JW days! :)
Thanks for this video! I think many of us can relate! It's so good that you included the negatives! When I was in ( born and raised) I always had questions and doubts...even as a child! So I had lived with great fear and guilt for many years. When I left my reasoning was I could put on a mask and pretend to agree with everything BUT God knew how I felt deep down inside. So I didn't see the point in staying. But I still had guilt and fear. I left with my two children who were baptism age so I had these feelings hidden inside. For about 7 years I juggled these feelings! Those went away as soon as I watched the Australian Royal Commission and found out I was fearing men...men who lie, mislead and don't have Gods people's safety as a concern I realized I didn't have to feel that way anymore. I still have issues in the friend department as well. I question who my real friends were in the faith since the friendships were forced. I work from home...so it makes it even more difficult. I do have my husband's family and friends. They accepted me for who I am and love me not because they have to. ...they want to. It's hard to accept that. The world is not how Watchtower taught. There is true love for fellow man without it being forced or alternative motives! I have found comfort in ex JW'S. I think most who have left have this true love for one another. Sorry...didnt mean to write a book! Lol. This video really touched a nerve and it's good! I appreciate your honesty and your work to help people!
I agree that shunning does create some level of depression; I have struggled since ties have been cut with my parents after disassociating.
One of the changes I've experienced since leaving (it's been about almost a year and a half) I'm not depressed anymore. I feel free and not guilty. I'm also not as fearful of life, living. I'm living more now than I've ever lived in the 13 years that I was a witness.
Thank you for your honesty, time & consideration. It’s amazing that you even care enough to do this. 🙏🏻 I’ve been watching you for a few months now, but this one made want to comment/show support. In my head I left the org two yrs ago, after of the 2016 Annual Mtg! But I just physically y left a few months ago. But I’m convinced cutting ties was best thing I could do for myself. Interestingly, since I left I actually hit the gym & signed up for dance classes something I put off for years bcus of being bombarded with “Kingdom/spiritual things”. I was over weight with heart failure and pre-diabetes. Now my health & weight is at its best, as well as my overall moral. You & the many other Ex JWs video played a big part in helping me do what’s been in my head for two years of torment 😢 Thank you thank you thank you !!!!!!!!
I can't say I have any negatives for leaving the JWs, I don't feel as depressed as when I was a JW so I feel far more motivated to exercise and actively seek out friendships. My family are also largely quite hostile toward me so them shunning me is something of a blessing.
Excellent John Cedars!
I feel exactly about the same as you since I left the organization.
I am much more content with my life ever since. I am much more compassionate towards other people than I used to be when I was a Jehovah's Witness. As a matter of fact, being a Jehovah's Witness is living a very small life filled only with what the Government Body wants you to live or to do.
I personally EXPELLED them completely out of my life.
I love your videos!!!
Thank you!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience with depression after leaving. I've struggled with chronic anxiety and some depression since leaving and it angered and confused me since I knew I was happier overall. After contemplating it I came to some conclusions about its origins. The biggest one for me I think is coming to terms with my mortality and learning to live in the moment instead of counting down the days to armageddon. I have a lot of anger over my wasted youth. There is also new responsibilities in regards politics and taking care of our environment which never mattered before. It's like being dropped in the deep end of life.
Yes, shunning is whole matter in itself. It is very hurtful and always in the back of my mind. It does bring on a sorrow of the soul, even then we go on.
So far this is the best thing that I did for myself leaving this religion, I’ve never been so free my daughter stop going years before me my husband still faithful to them, I used to threaten my son about shunning me and than one day he stayed home and tell my husband no more Kingdom Hall for me, very happy now, if anyone wanted to shun me be my guest.
Yes, good point about the emotional bubble. I think you figured it out. I came into the JW org as a young mother suffering from post-partum depression. The Org. was like a drug to me and leaving it after 20+ years was like coming off an addictive drug. It seemed as if all the emotions that I hadn't dealt with before I was a JW came back to me. I think that leaving the Org after being raised in it (I wasn't) would have its own special challenges. You may have emotions spring up that you had never had to deal with without the drugs they were passing out at the KH. And to compound all that--the shunning. I was explaining my shunning to a non-JW friend just yesterday. She was horrified. But I survived it and better now being on the other side of it. Life is much fuller and I can really relax now. And yes, I feel that I can truly love my neighbors now without restrictions and that truly feels more moral to me.
What a profound, nuanced and insightful video. You have such a gift for articulating/putting into words feelings/thoughts I've have/had (Perhaps due to my lack of education.) but haven't been able to express orally or even in my own head. Thamk you, sir.
Well Dayn, you just did the same for me. Well said. And Lloyd, Thank you!
Mr. Latimer :) That's supposed to be smilely face.
My grandmother disassociated herself from the jw church in 1984, the year after my parents were married. I was born in 1987, and as a result didn't meet her until after I disassociated myself, 18 years later. This church has scarred my family for 3 generations, and yet my parents will proudly pick the wound.
I'm 31 now, and yet still at times a rush of depression envelops me as well. For all the good I've done in my life a sense of self-worth is lacking. I forged ahead for 13 years solo, and have only recently began to reach out to the exjw community. It's helped me immensely. I've learnt that can't give myself a life sentence for a crime I haven't committed. I've come to terms that I was indeed brainwashed. And whether or not I had the correct initial motivations for leaving the church, the net result is that I have made the best of choices removing my brain from that Pharisaical vice.
Thank you for all the effort you put into to your work Lloyd.
Thank you Lloyd.... I was a third generation JW ..... my awakening process has taken a lot of time. Now I’m completely out and free . Things are a little bit different here in Italy. Because a few people knowing what happened in USA and Australia about paedophilic abuses in the JW organisation. Your thoughts and research have helped me and finally I’ve taken the decision to leave. I like thinking that you and your family are my friends. So I don’t feel lonely.
Thanks for sharing this Lloyd, I can imagine it was not the easiest to share. I could relate to some of what you said, being so bothered about doctrine at the beginning (trinity) and the overall feeling of being liberated but overwhelmed with depressive emotions. My hope is that eventually we will adjust and learn the skills to find "normalcy and contentment". It must help to have a wife who completely gets it. I stopped attending meetings in July 2011 but did not fully wake up until this year.
When I left JW, I went from having a plethora of friends to having zero. As much as I loving being free from that religion, the loneliness can be very overwhelming. I have nobody now, no friends and no family. As a shy person, I find it hard to make new friends and I have some trust issues with getting close to people now - after the sting of having the very people who told me they would "stick closer than a brother" leave and shun me simply because I no longer wanted to practice the same religion as them. I get solace and strength from videos like these. They help me feel less alone. Thank you!
It will get easier, I promise. I have been out for quite a while now and you WILL make some truly wonderful friends. ...built on genuine caring not conditional. Give it time.
The “enjoyment of giving” hit home to me. I remember always feeling so empty whenever I would do something really nice for someone else. No more hollow actions!
Thank you for sharing your inner self with your viewers, Lloyd. I too, despite much appreciated freedom from nonsensical beliefs, am left living with an undercurrent of sadness at the many lost opportunities for wonderful family interactions, but for the fact that my family who are still in consider changing ones way of looking at life as a reason to cut off any interaction even as their twisted minds are conditioned to see shunning as a gesture of "love". Pahlease. I could go on but I know you already know.
Your reflection mirrors many of us whom have woken up. I feel I Am more moral in the sense that I’m moral because it’s in my heart it’s the person I am whereas before it was a duty . I believe that you have a great big heart and that’s why you want to expose the cult, hence no one else will get tricked and hurt. The weight might also be that it’s very difficult to gain control of our emotions when we start our new life. I think many of us are either, lost, hurt or in a state of shock. Great video. Thank you.
I relate to much of this.
Regarding depression, I was definitely depressed as a JW, but it got worse once I left and got into therapy. My therapist talked a lot initially about how I’d spent years staying busy to avoid feeling uncomfortable emotions, basically distracting myself. The positive in all of this is that as I learn to sit with my discomfort, I am better able to be present with my emotions and the depression has lessened a lot.
I really enjoy the way you explain things. One way I have changed positively is I am now at peace with God and feel that I have found the real truth. But I also get depressed at times thinking about my family that is shunning me now (mother and brother). I thought it was so sad that your dad won’t even meet your daughter, my mom still sees my kids sometimes so I do get to see her briefly on occasion, but I haven’t seen or spoken to my brother in several years and when he comes into town he won’t reach out to my kids or try to see them. I feel the same as you, it is a stab right in the heart whenever I let myself think about it.
This is such a good video! I wish I had known how tough losing friends would be, I'd have replaced the meeting times with evening classes straight away to make up for the lack of social time. I've found mindful self- compassion amazingly helpful for the depression that's come from it for me! Thank you for sharing!!
You're right, it's tough losing friends and loved ones. But think of this...
There are around 8.45 million Jehovah's Witlesses (a childish jab, but I cannot resist it). Of those only 144,000 go to heaven (where they apparently do administrative scutwork for eternity). The remainder get to spend eternity on Earth (renovated and refurbished by the original manufacturer, good as new) trying to grow food and build their own house (I'm crap at bricklaying, but I suppose after a million years I'd get the hang of it).
Anyway, that means only 1.7% of Witnesses go to heaven. Call it 2% to simplify the calculations. Humans typically only know around 100-200 people. In some professions, like teaching, you get to know more, but for most of us 200 is an upper limit and 100 is more typical. Most of those 100-200 are mere acquaintances, not loved ones or friends, but I'll give them promotions. You have 100 loved ones and friends.
Do the maths (or math, if you're in the US). If you're one of the lucky 144,000 who goes to heaven, the chances are *only one* of your loved ones and friends will be there with you. The other 98 will be on Earth, trying to build a house and grow food. Look at it from their perspective: they've lost a couple of people they know, but they each have 97 loves ones/friends still around them.
I thought going to heaven was supposed to be a *reward.* It seems more like being disfellowshipped. For eternity.
The point I'm making is this. Their doctrines are batshit insane. You've gained more than you lost. You've gained your sanity. Be happy.
Lloyd I think some of the sadness we feel is seeing people who you love and care for and in your heart you know are good people. so trapped and conflicted and controlled to the point that they believe they are doing the right thing by shunning those they love. and how even though you've helped so many to come back to reality. those who you personally love haven't come to reality and there's still stuck in there delusional world. and that's a sadness/ depression that I'm sure others myself included who have left a cult suffer from. But like you overall I'm happier living in reality.
Nothing is perfect and that's ok
Another good video
78046
Thank you for such an honest conversation, inspiring self-inventory immediately. One idea i got about the emotional waves that hit so hard, is maybe people underestimate the time it takes to peel away all the layers of programming. I think it takes many years and maybe never gets over with. --I can very much appreciate what you said about being more naturally generous. Most JW we knew were stingy as Scrooge. They lived with many shortages, lack of sufficient income, trying to project a generosity while resenting any expenditures for others. For example, I've never seen people so reluctant to tip for service. And they really felt like if they gave a dime they would never get it back, with all their talk of receiving blessings by giving to Jehovah (actually WT corp). I heard it expressed so much, how hard everyone worked, how difficult it was to get hold of money, how much they resented having to work for money; that was a constant theme over the years. --We have changed in that we're not afraid to say NO, which means we're more honest with ourselves and others. We feel freer to be open, not trying to create false impression or be people pleasers. That's an enormous change for me in particular.
I am no longer terrified of going to peoples houses. :)
Jez! I forgot that. I hated it so much that by the end I started to cheat or going with a friend and talking to someone in the street every hour and make that count
@@yolandaabsexerciserolfo5665 lol same 😅
I really appreciate the honesty in outlining and addressing the “negatives” of leaving JW. As an ex-Mormon, I can relate on both sides of the +\- of leaving, even considering I was asked to stop attending church with my family at age 11.
A nicely reflective video, Lloyd, showing your more compassionate view of others. You are absolutely right about what is gained and what is lost in leaving the organization. I listened to your discussing the list of changes and felt very moved by your observations.
Like you, I also believe I am a more moral person now than I ever was as a JW. I think about my beliefs as a JW when I had no problem believing the greater bulk of humankind - including babies and children - would be destroyed simply because they or their caregivers don't follow the controlling directives of Governing Body I simply do not recognize that smug man i used to be as a JW. I can see this video being hugely informative and affirming for many, many people. Thank you L,oyd.
Rody Withers
Smug. That's a very good word to describe how I was as a jw. I was smug and intolerant. As if I had all the answers, because I was a jw.
Oh wow, the articulate dude off of Leah Remini's show. Sterling work sir, your bravery and heart were inspiring and informative.
Thanks! I'm so glad you enjoyed the show! :)
I totally get you two (20:20). In my case, I feel as sad as I used to feel as a Christian. I don't think that hasn't changed in me.
But I think that the happiness I feel now is genuine. I guess this is something apostates can understand better, we can make a comparison of those emotional states.
I loved this video. Inspiring.
Came here for the "hello there" and stayed for the great content.
Possibly the clue for the reason you’re more generous and giving now was found in your next comment about being none judgemental. When you’re a witness you feel constrained by those judgements. “How would Jehovah feel if I gave money to a charity for AIDS sufferers” for example, we were taught, albeit subliminally, to only give to those who deserve it, i e Jehovah’s Witnesses or the organisation. Your naturally generous kind spirit was hobbled by the cruel judgements you,(and all of us) were forced to make of our fellow man.
1
One theory, to quote:- Marx believed that religion had certain practical functions in society that were similar to the function of opium in a sick or injured person: it reduced people's immediate suffering and provided them with pleasant illusions (Wikipedia). Withdrawal literally leads to symptoms similar to depression. So possibly the feeling of depression is actually a withdrawal symptom, especially considering the high opioid dose that a promise of life in paradise gave..
Uthen six I'm not religious at all now but I think Marx was wrong about alot of things including comparing religion to opium. Religion probably has alot more utility to society and the social fabric. Ppl get alot of eudonic happiness from a religious(or a group with tightly held beliefs) group with a higher purpose that they just don't experience from hedonism. Even the atheist groups strike me as creating their own philosophical group that takes on all the trappings of a religious group. It's probably part of being human.
You are by far one of the most eloquent speakers I listen to. It was as if you were telling my story. I have always been an introvert but more so since leaving. And to be honest I trust people less now. I genuinely want your father to reach out to you. But, please know you are a shining light to so many. Thank you.
mark reed so very sad 😢
mark reed thank you for sharing your story. This organization has destroyed so many lives. I hope more people will open their eyes and leave. Sorry for what you went through
In JW you the perfection demanded to promote the desires of evil, now that the potted lid of perfection has been released I find no desire for the evil things. My life is calm at home, fewer interests of riches or material things. I find myself more patient with others and when coming across someone of rudeness I think of what may have caused their action. I give more of the benefit of a doubt. I learned who I was. My true like and dislikes. For the first time, I could breathe. When I first left JW I did not know what I wanted. Took me quite a while to figure what made me, ME. I have peace. (I still smoke.)
Friendship, you hit a sore point for me. I want a friend and companion, but do not have those social skills. It is so awkward to me. How to make friends. I found this out about myself. Never knew this when I was in the JW's.
My love to all you ex-JW's... xoxo
On the point of depression I have two thoughts. First, while a Witness I knew depression was viewed as a sign of weak faith. So I was in a lot of denial about it. Another thing is that while in the cult, you’re in a false reality where you feel you’re one of the few on the planet that truly understands the reason for things and what’s to come. I felt insulated from problems of the world because I was under the delusion that I was in a safe bubble. It is depressing to find out that the organization you once viewed as a life line was nothing but a pack of lies propagated by 7 flawed human beings that are pulling everyone’s strings. And the shunning creates unspeakable emotional damage. That alone is an outstanding reason to be an activist. To keep others from making the mistake of baptism. And to call attention to the real harm that the organization causes. Tangible damage to people’s lives. It broke my heart to see sweet little Jessica sitting at her grandfather’s doorstep. The cult is evil and destructive, but deluded into believing they are God’s chosen few. The more truth about the truth that gets exposed, the better.
I think you are right! As a JW, we see depression as a sign of weakness, a sign that you arent as faithful, that you dont go out in service as much. Whenever I told my elders I was dealing with depression, the response I always got was..."you need to go out in service more and it will go away."
@@elzevierjaviergarcia890 My reading comprehension is pretty good but for some reason, I can't understand what you have written here. Are you saying people have depression because they don't pray enough? If you didn't say that then please disregard the rest of my post and have a wonderful day.
I first remember being suicidal at age 4 and I was already praying to Jehovah by that time. I continued praying constantly for relief in every conceivable way for 44 years...to no avail. Are 44 years not long enough to reach a conclusion? Perhaps looking up the definition of insanity would help you a bit. I finally came to the realization he wasn't going to answer me...
@@elzevierjaviergarcia890 I don't understand your reply. You're saying people should not pray to god and ask for relief? I never asked him to cure my bipolar. I asked him to help me enough so that I could be an effective Witness for him. I asked him to take it away enough so that I did not kill myself. But that never happened so of course, I thought it was all my fault.
But the point is moot, now, however, since I have left that cult and gotten into therapy. I found out that I did not, in fact, have bipolar, but I have PDST from being raised in an abusive family in a cult.
My life has changed 100%. Nameste, Elzevier. :)
I've just started watching various exJW videos and although I was never baptized I was born-in and steeped heavily in the fear. The trauma from this "religion" affected all throughout my life long after leaving. Since learning the real truth about this cult I've noticed I feel lighter, like the weight of guilt has been lifted. My anxiety has noticeably subsided and I don't stress eat like I used to. I'm starting to feel healthier, happier and free from residual guilt and fear that have been with me since childhood. Like you I wish I had found out about the real truth much sooner. Better late then never. Thank you for all your work!
Dear Lloyd. I have been studying the Bible with the witnesses in the early 1990s, and although I did not join them, their teaching left me a very deep mark.
After I left them, my life became troubled because of the teaching. Then came the internet age, and I found plenty of information about them, about their teachings.
But the good relationship with God has not yet come back.
That's why I watch these videos to get to know other points of view, the experiences of other people who have left the organization.
I wish to you more successful video production!
This was good as well as the rest!
Sincerely, Tibor from Hungary
The intro music has become synonymous with John. Love it!!!
Your honesty is always so good to see. Thank you for doing all of this!
That was one of the best videos you’ve ever produced, Lloyd, and that’s saying a lot. Thank you SO much for sharing such personal thoughts and feelings. It’s very brave of you. I’m not and have never been a JW but I am sure that this video will be helpful to many people struggling to disengage themselves from their JW life. And yes, depression is a bitch, I know personally, but dealing with it head on and some times with the help of proper medication, it can be managed. Anyway, thanks again, and I hope to meet you someday and offer my hand in friendship. Can never have enough of those. Be well.
Thank you for the very candid assessment. I would like to point out that your fashion choices and grooming styles have improved dramatically as well.
Thankyou - it is always healthy to give permission (even by example ) for people to speak. As for experiencing depressive moments it is absolutely normal when you are faced with as you said shunning, even those of us without family in there - it is still a hit when you know you will be thought of negatively by those, that at one point, their thinking well of you was one of a priority. Also dealing with the feelings of being naive, a nice way of saying feeling stupid for being taken in by a cult. For realising the time there has been a huge waste of your time and talents. Maybe like me you are nearly 60 with very little financial backing and the future looks very scary as you realise this is it with no ‘future’ pay off including getting your youth back. However with all of this I can enjoy what ever time I do have on my own terms and do what I can with my experience to help others. Again Thankyou as there will be many thinking they should be happy but still grappling with feelings such as you have opened up about.
Thanks Lloyd for your videos. It really helps me a lot to have freedom from the guilt and burden inside my head since I left 13 years ago. I can also relate on the changes and the feelings you have experienced. I can say, I am also happier now since I can pursue my passion on music. Cheers!!!
Woah when you started talking about depression, it totally is true. I am happier, but more depressed. And the darkness is over whelming, and wanting to be alone. The feeling of not belonging anywhere. Thanks for talking about that.
Hi Lloyd, I really appreciate your sharing the difficult parts of leaving, and especially your sense of depression. I'm not a psychologist either, but it makes a lot of sense that being in a high control group gives people a sense of meaning and belonging. The history of humanity is, by and large, being members of very small communities, where there was usually some man or men in town who, more of less explicitly, set expectations for people. It's only in modern life where we''re trying to construct ways to live that are non-manipulated -- and ie, lonely. Glad you have your wife.
I can really relate to a lot of what you said. I experienced a lot of depression since I was a teenager, however the depression I felt after leaving the organization was different. It takes time to process everything (I don't know that we'll ever be finished) and it also takes time to find your "tribe". I talk a lot about this on my channel and in fact you inspired the last part of my most recent video where I talk about your video and struggles you and your wife have had with building a new social network since you've left. This all takes time. Thank you for your honesty and all the work you do.
Very candid and honest. It would have been easy for you to omit the negatives for obvious reasons. And as I watched the video I started picturing lots of comments from people who know exactly what you are talking about and that's exactly what I saw. It's just human nature when you go from this constant "artificial" happiness to the hard reality that each of us are personally responsible for our lives, not the old guys in NY and there are no 2nd chances, it's traumatic. It's like having the rug pulled out from under you. Witnesses absolutely relish pointing out people who become self-destructive or maybe go down hill in some ways after leaving because then they can say "see!, that's what happens without Jah!". All the while being somehow either oblivious or apathetic to the fact that that person has quite possibly just endured severe and lasting trauma. Awesome video thank you Lloyd!
Great video Lloyd, totally agree. After I was abandoned by the borg, I was so lost. Never had any "worldly friends and my jw "friends" totally shunned me because of my mom. Never met any ex jws until I discovered your channel. You helped me not feel so weird, damned and lost. I still have problems with people, but I try to be nice to all and listen to all opinions. Thank you for making these videos, all your hard work and dealing with your detractors. I think you save people's lives and seriously help with regaining the sanity needed to live a good life....thank you and thank you Deanna for allowing you to spend so much time on helping others...and Jessica is just too adorable
I have so much respect for you just listening.I hope that some day in the not too distant future your daughter will meet her grand dad. That made me cry because I know how much I love my 2 grand children.
Good luck and Hod bless. I was never a JW but I really enjoy listening to you.
My grandad was a witness but he died when I was 7 years old so I never got to learn too much about the faith.
You look happy! Keep following your bliss. I notice you have over 31 thousand subscribers! Happy for you!
Sorry to hear about your depression John. Thank you for your honesty, it really does help.
I think you are spot on about friends, it’s really really hard to make friends for me to make new ones now, there’s a loneliness from not having people that knew you most of your life. I recently went to visit a cousin that was my favorite when we were lil, had not seen her In 30 yrs, I cannot tell you the feelings I had of seeing someone who knew me, Truly knew me, there was a connection, I was overwhelmed, there are a few still JW friends who shun me that I would feel the same about. Shunning is such a cruel practice. Thank you for this video “as always” I Truly enjoyed it.😊
I'm really glad you are here for others like me
This video was serious for me because it explores our own reasons for, when , what, how, who and finally why we should examine ourselves.
In other words, the more we gather evidence for our own belief system we can understand more profoundly who we are then the watchtower's claims of who we OUGHT to be.
When I do a self probe I notice when i left the high control influence organization I am more prone to accept people for who they are and not by what I'm told. These people aren't evil, or when I was a witness we called people who aren't witnesses from "Egypt". As if they are going to die, at least they will eventually in a witness point of view.
I'm free! I am happy to celebrate ME and love ME and not 7 men in New York who tell me how to live. Nor a God who allow this kind of bad behaviour.
I have been disfellowshiped for years and just today I went to see a therapist because my depression isn't going away on it's own.
Thank you for this video. I share the majority of your points. I am much better off now but since I left however I have always struggled with friendship. But I wouldn't change the life I am living right now for anything in the world. I am free from the anxiety and from the tension by racing against yourself and others in order to get privileges or to be appointed as elder etc., and the massive disappointment when those wouldn't arrive. Thanks again Lloyd.
I AM against family members SHUNNING family members. I feel very strongly about this. Great video. Hail to you, John Cedars!
Let’s jam out next time you come to San Diego Lloyd 🎸 🥁
I recently left the organisation and I can relate to everything that you have said. I really enjoy and love watching your channel. Totally agree with everything you say. I got emotional for you on the part of the shunning from your dad cause I can relate to this myself. Keep posting your videos I think your doing an amazing job.
I'm with ya, Bro! 'To thine own self be true'. We can't be something we are not even out of love for someone we hold dear. The aspect of 'disowning oneself for God' would be alright if it were really for God and not for some human institution that couldn't care less about us.
I'm trying to find Negatives, but have failed.
(But I hasten to add that I fully acknowledge I am incredibly lucky to not have family shunning me.)
Abigail Parker
Like you, I was not shunned either. At least by my family. Friends? Maybe a few shunned me, but I really didn't care if they did or did not.
There are those in town (a very small town) and the surraounding area who actively shun me. I have gotten to a place where I truly do not care. I even now have compassion and empathy for some who seem genuinely afraid or disdainful of me. I was once as they were, blindly obedient and terrified of those who had "fallen away." It never felt right, but I too shunned.
It feels fabulous to be in a place of freedom and peace. I can choose my own thoughts, beliefs, feelings, decisions--my very life is now mine --and to feel free from needing to judge others--even those who judge me.
I truly believe most JWs are victims of victims and I wish them well, hope they too find their way to freedom.
Abigail Parker excellent way of putting it, victims of victims.
Abigail Parker - once the “victims” hear REAL truth & reject it over & over or go into denial, at what point are they no longer a victim of watchtower but are a supporter of a cult?
Lonna T that’s a good point also
Oh! The picture of you playing the drums! I recognize that shirt! Damn you and that shirt go *way* back!
One thing I have found, after leaving and a few years of very good counseling for anxiety, is that most of what I thought was depression was actually painful anxiety. So today, when I feel "depression", it is usually fear I am feeling, not depression. Sadness is not the same as depression. Sadness is a separate emotion that is appropriate for sad things such as grief or types of disappointment. I suggest that all people, when you are feeling "depressed", ask yourself what it is you are really feeling? Maybe it is fear of something. Maybe you are feeling appropriate sadness or disappointment. Figure out what emotion you are really feeling and mistakenly labeling depression. Clinical depression isn't something fleeting. Appropriate emotions are more fleeting and temporary.
I didn't come out of JW, but I was, for a long time, hardcore Christian. I'm now an atheist, and I am more leery of telling anyone of my new belief system.
Where I work is probably +90% Conservative Christian. I know of people who have been fired and treated like crap when it came out they were atheist.
As far as mental state, I feel more empathy and compassion. Overall, I'm happier than I was as a Christian.
People I thought were friends, are no longer friends. They've become acquaintances. Mostly because they can't have a conversation beyond Jesus.
I'm more of an activist than I ever thought of being.
I speak my mind more freely than I ever have, but in a tactful way.
Since there are no Gods or Satans to blame anymore, life feels more urgent. Time is more precious now than it was.
It's scary sometimes. I still have PTSD about Hell, even though I don't believe in it.
Funny how we become a better person when we leave religion behind.
I defiantly understand the feeling of depression in respects of shunning. The reality is you know in your heart and by your actions you and your wife are loving people. Much in the way I know that it is true of myself. The desire to show love to your family and others by your actions has been intensified by your waking up. Contrast that with the feeling of being thrown away like common garbage even though you know your value as a human being. I struggle with those feelings as I deal with how my mother has rejected my sisters and I for not being part of the religion anymore. It angers me sometimes. I am faced with the thought, who does she think she is to throw me away or reject me? Especially in my case when she has done so many egregious things, yet has gotten away with them, because she never confessed to the elders about her behaviour. The physical, mental and emotional abuse she would dish out to us. I realize that that is not everyone's experience, but it was mine. My "father" was never a witness but he was also never a father. So I grew up with two emotionally absent parents who were preoccupied by their own needs and wants. Knowing that and what kind of parent I am and how I view that very important roll set me apart from how grew up. And now I am faced ,along with my sisters, with the very real fact that our mother just does not value us at all. We have no importance to her unless we go back to something that she believes. It was never important to her to know each of us. It was never important for her value our life experience and what we have learned. If I was a man she most defiantly would treat me differently. I am not sure if she would have chosen to do what she done. But the shunning, even though I have never been disfellowshipped, is very real. And the struggle to come to terms with that or even understand it still baffles me. It doesn't make sense to me on so many levels. You are not alone in your feelings though the reasons may vary on why those feelings are there.
Hi John. I would recommend morning walks and evening walks. It will help you get fit physically and mentally. As someone who was a jw, I find myself more at peace and lighter after being active.
Thank you Lloyd, I think you described things brilliantly. Especially the part about being depressed. I do not regret leaving or my decision to leave the organization at all. How you described now feeling that full spectrum of feelings and emotions is accurate, but I also find myself not really trusting people. I’m an introvert by nature so I’ve never really wanted to be around a lot of people. It has to do with my hearing and that I have tinnitus. It effects my nerves. Plus I’ve been through a lot of abuse. It’s has really helped me a great deal hearing that others who used to be JW actually feel similar to how I feel. Sometimes it’s hard listening to you put God down, but now we are free to be different and not all have to believe the same. There is one thing I know for a certainty, I know that the Jehovah’s Witnesses do NOT know the TRUTH about Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Friend: what truly is a friend? The definition changes when anyone becomes an adult. You learn to differentiate between acquaintances , people you know more closely and true, close friends. With Jehovah's Witnesses, you think you have lots of friends. But think back, how many of them were truly close confidants? How many were just people you knew, rather than strangers, and how many were truly friends?
Very insightful Loyd! I can't help but agree that shunning contributes to your bouts of depression. And I only hope that over time it diminishes in intensity. My experience was the opposite. I experienced severe pain and depression during 14 of the 18 years I was a witness and for years afterwards. After 25 years of directing my own life, making my own decisions and being responsible for them, I can truly say I am not depressed. It's has been a long painful journey with a good outcome :) I am happy and I am not depressed. The shunning, like so many other things, never made sense to me. It pains me to see families like yours suffering its terrible effects. I appreciate your work Loyd. You are very talented. For many years, I was not in the loop until I came upon your website, and I learned for the first time about the child sex abuse, UN membership, and also JW Broadcasting, etc. I have family who are still very active so it's nice to know what is going on. We are all human and perfectly capable of directing our own lives solving our challenges. Thanks for all your videos. Wish you all the best!
I’d love to meet you one day, it’s so refreshing to hear someone who KNOWS what it’s like! I left 4 years ago, and I wasn’t even baptised - but brought up since childhood. I’m so with you about friends too, I have fewer friends and making friendships is so hard bc they’ve always been on a plate and worldly people have always been demonised.
I'm not surprised that you feel more moral now that you're out. The moral feeling in an individual can only thrive when they are being honest with themselves and can freely speak their mind.
I'm truly happy that you and your family are free
Take evening walks with your family, its exercise and will give you a family activity
Friends are highly overrated, quality over quantity.
You are not depressed. You are decompressing. Look at it this way, you have been under very tight mind control that gave you very specific and limited ways the emotions were allowed to be expressed. But now your free, your emotions are free. How do you deal with all those free emotions with out the tightly structured control of religion.
You lost your friends, your dad, your community and your structure.
You'll get there. Deep breaths 💚
Fantastic.
I have made a list of sorts in the past, but it's been awhile and I might do it again.
I think it is a powerful exercise.
You mentioned exercising more and I agree it's needed. I'm a 39 yr old guy who just DA'd and am experiencing shunning myself. I've managed to stop drinking through a better diet. Specifically KETO aka a no carbohydrate diet. My weight has dropped and my mood has improved. They say getting healthy is more nutritional than anything. It's 100% true. Eat yourself to a better you. There's my unsolicited advice lol. Thank you for your videos! I can relate to your story, we're about the same age. I was born in and served in Central America when I was 19. Your vids help me out alot. They also played a small role in helping me turn in my official DA letter 2 weeks ago!
Cheers from Texas!
Ditto Ditto Ditto As an ex scientologist there are parallels between the pluses of leaving scientology and the negatives. I really appreciate you talking about the depression. Ditto. Deep depression and it was therapeutic listening to your take on why. I lost my son to scientology and the shunning is beyond my control. Also, if I were to psychoanalyze myself a little bit more I would say part of the reason behind the depression is because I lost something that gave me the answers - the bubble you speak of - even though it's faux. Out here in the big world I have to figure it out myself. :) Having said that, I also agree with you that I am FAR happier being out of this oppressive "religion" and hope one day my son will be out, too - for his sake.
As for me :no more extreme anxiety, no more unnecessary stress, no more making a fool of myself, I'm better off financially, my relationships are better especially with my family and true friends and best of all I'm actually learning from the Bible and am getting a more reasonable understanding of it, best of all I'm not actively denying JC a their memorial year after year 😊
That is a good point you made about the prodigal son story directly contradicting the whole disfellowshipping/shunning arrangement they got going on!
Loyd, thank you for sharing such a personal part of yourself. I appreciate your willingness to open yourself up to such vulnerability.
With regard to experiencing more depression post religion, I (while not an ex-JW) have definitely had that experience after exiting my religion (Southern Baptist Christian). There are a few reasons this may occur, I think.
For one thing, there was a certain amount of pressure as a Christian to NOT be depressed, because being depressed was stigmatized as some sort of spiritual failure to fully connect with God (for how could one fully connected to God be depressed - surely the result had to be Joy!). So, I think I did a fair amount of talking myself into being "joyful" (i.e. denial).
Secondly after my exit was complete and especially after I came to fully realize and acknowledge to myself that the truth was that I was agnostic (rather than my earlier thoughts that perhaps there WAS definitely a God, but I just wasn't sure who he/she/it was or the nature thereof), that meant that I was then the master of my own fate, the author of my own life. That sounds like it would be a good thing, and it IS...mostly. But the side effect of that is, when things go wrong, I have to take full responsibility for it. No longer can it be chalked up to some working of the Almighty (perhaps some blessing in disguise, part of a greater plan, etc.) or (ironically?) the work of dark forces against which I must just pray harder. When I walked away, I was alone. I alone was responsible for whatever good or bad happened to me. That meant that there was no "sky daddy" to whom I could always turn with any problem.
That, coupled with the isolation that comes with not being involved in a church in this part of the world (the rural Deep South of America) was a recipe for depression. It's been hard to overcome and I admit, even ten years on, there are still times I MISS the Beautiful Blissful Blind Belief. It is a strange thing, isn't it?
I am much less judgmental than I used to be, I lost weight because of too much drinking and only drink occasionally now. I too am less selfish and think of others in a more healthy way but the most important change for me is I have friends who truly love me. I always had associates from work and so when I left I didn't feel that pull of loneliness. I have better friends in fact because they aren't looking at me through a magnifying glass. I am getting married next year and the them is steampunk, something that would NEVER be tolerated if I was still a JW. Your video was very informative (as always) and I enjoy listening to a perspective of reason. One negative is I have acquired a unconventional language which pops out of nowhere at times, but I'm working on that. Being around my JW mother is challenging because she would never tolerate me dropping the F bomb.