How is the RED V-RAPTOR [X] SO GOOD?!
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- 💭 Comment - Let us know what you think of the RAPTOR X down below!
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Chapters:
Intro - 00:00
What's Different? - 00:36
New Sensor - 01:17
Rolling Shutter - 01:59
Latitude Tests - 03:58
OECF Chart - 06:18
Noise / Low Light - 06:35
Detail - 06:54
Colour - 07:10
High Frame Rate - 07:48
Extended Highlights - 08:21
Phantom Track - 16:46
Improved Audio - 18:33
Improved Shutter Speed Options - 19:31
Autofocus - 20:13
In Camera Checksum - 21:46
EVF Additions - 22:23
Body Design - 23:11
Conclusion - 23:46
#REDCinema #RAPTORX #camerareview
RED V-RAPTOR [X] 8K VV | In-Depth Review & Test Footage 
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That Arri's highlight retention without any "Highlight Pro Plus Extended Ultra" is so impressive though
Arri would use a technique similar to what RED has, but it would work in a better way.
Arri's solution is called DGO, it works the same as RED's except it samples the two images simultaneously and they have it patented until 2028, its why ARRI has been the leader in DR until now.
@@HeliosAnimation I don't remember Alexa having problems with phantom image or motion blur though. Either it wasn't covered in CVP review or I just forgot about it.
@@unn4medfeel1ng They don't have phantom problems because the exposures are sampled by having one higher gain image and then one lower gain image, Red adjusts the shutter speed.
DGO is Canon's name for it.@@HeliosAnimation
I definitely wasn’t nodding my head learning and studying a camera I can’t afford. 😂
A camera you can’t afford yet..
don’t let your mindset limit you.
@@MrJayColesit’s all good man. My video business is booming. Thanks for the support.
I think for most people this is one to consider as a rental anyway.
Hopefully this will be a wave for more cinema cameras with global shutters! Would be interesting to see how popular it'd be within the next few years
Honestly, for me, it doesn't get any better than this. Would so love this camera!
Another note - if you're into making 35mm film looks in your work, the global shutter will sell that effect further
Film cameral have rolling shutter though 😉
@@Stanlyok Shutter is moving from one side to other exposing the film, but there is no visible rolling shutter I guess
@@Nadolny.mp4 it is very fast, but visible 🫣 also in motion picture cameras it is a rotating (rolling) disc with cutouts to expose film and covered area to transport film to the next frame ✌️as for horizontal focal plane shutter that you’re describing - film Leica has that type of shutter and maximum flash sync speed of 1/50 so it is very much a rolling shutter
@@Stanlyok Cool to know. Thanks for that knowledge man. Have a nice day!
@@Nadolny.mp4 have fun!
Awesome! thank you
informative video thanks CVP.
Thank you for the great video! Brilliant review and sound methodology.
Some observations
7:16 - "has been designed around producing the same excellent colours" and clipped-looking (I know that they are not actually clipped) blobs of blue on the background. It is not the sensor problem per se but is an issue of imaging pipeline (IPP2 with per-channel tone-mapping). It can produce bad results in some situations. Fire looks dim as well, which is a bit weird. Is it a manual color grading adjustment?
Hey Jake, the last two videos seem to be a lot crisper on your talking head segments. Are you using a new lens/camera?
I feel like this competes against Arri's Alexa Mini lineup, not any consumer or even professional camera. And that's not a bad thing. Just telling it how I see it.
Global shutter full frame with this level of highlight recovery is specifically great for car shoots because it's really hard to get metal to look "right" in sunlight.
Re: some of the ghosting or other issues with EH on/off, I'm guessing some situations can be saved/improved with a little bit of hands on compositing between renders of it on/off. That's work many won't want to do, but when/if you need to, and it makes sense, it'll probably work. We already use power windows and other things. It's just another tool/option.
If one is already shooting "highlight-plates" that negates the whole point of the EH - you can just put in 2 stops of ND and shoot that to composite into your main exposure then.
Thanks for sharing. I will test the new Raptor X here in Bangkok and find out how good it is.
Curios to see how that extended highlight mode works when shooting interiors with large windows during bright sun...
Awesome & Thanks :)
Thanks CVP - great video. @CVPTV I bought the Raptor X but I'm having issues with the Extended Highlights feature. Not yet supported in RedCineX Pro or Premiere so the files appear offline. I got the Beta version of RedCineX so I can at least look at the files - but any advice of a way to turn the EH feature off in RedCineX so I'm able to see the files in Premiere? Or do you have another solution before those files are supported?
Hey Simon, currently you will have to do your RAW adjustments in RCXP and then export your clips out to pull into PP! Hopefully adobe and Blackmagic update their program to recognise the EH files! Jake
You should have shoot some welding with this camera, especially with EH on. That would be super interesting to see.
Thanks for this! Very thorough. You mentioned that you can toggle pageOS off. Is this just on the X or can we now do this on all V-Raptors?
I believe its possible with all existing RAPTOR's too. Jake
@@CVPTV Thanks Jake! I'll update to latest release firmware and scour the menus. PageOS annoys me a lot because I often enter the menu system by mistake.
You’ll need to update your standard RAPTOR to 1.6.2, which on first boot will then prompt you to update the monitor to the new firmware pushed by the camera. Then you go to the Monitor’s settings, by swiping right, and there is a new section called Page OS where you can disable Pages and Tools. Would also recommend disabling pinch to zoom in its own menu if errant swipes and touches are a problem
@@lorensimons2593 thanks!
For ZCAM's WDR technology, they recommend a minimum of 1/250 shutter for any recording frame rate to minimize motion artefacts, is there a recommended minimum shutter speed for the V Raptor X EH mode?
Also note that the dual shutter technology is from Sony.
I don't believe RED have published a specifically recommended SS. Jake
This or Sony Burano. How to pick which one??
It's a shame they didn't find a different way to do EH, HDRX on my old RED came in handy on occasion, but but in most real world situations the difference the shutter speed often made it unusable.
Is this camera better than ranger monstro?
Does this camera file support in silverstak lab and davinci resolve
Sry for a stupid question,but what is the point of moving a key light closer to an actor or moving a head closer to a light in a v-raptor/v-raptor-x/komodo-x comparison in 7.20?
We didn’t. Jake
Well done lads.
Thanks Phil! You loving the camera as much as us? Jake
@CVPTV yep. Two cameras in for upgrade, plus one new body as well. Nothing like it on the market really.
Gyus, which si better V Raptor or Burano ? ;)
Maybe red should capture the two exposures with a checkerboard pattern instead so the exposures are captured at the same time
And lose resolution in the process to make it 4K. It could be interesting. They could make marketing put of it. If you want Vistavision 8K you go with the VV, if you want Dynamic Range Vistavision 4K go with the X.
Helium owner here. Still don't understand how this differs from HDRX
motion camera made for steady shots
Equal highlights at +7 to the Alexa 35, 1 stop better in the shadows for Raptor X. Add on Global Shutter, 8K Vista Vision and I also like the Red skin tones better than Alexa 35. I think Red has finally done it and climbed to the top of the hill.
Red needs tricks to get closer to ARRI. I think that no serious cinematographer will use this mode on a large film set. This is risky and uncomfortable. Alexa offers this dynamics without any artifacts.
@@tomasznizielski1881 The process used by Arri is practically the same, except it reads both exposures simultaneously, and nobody else can use that technique because it's patented. Give RED some time; they'll achieve optimal results.
They are only "equal" in highlights while RED is using a dual frame HDR compositing mode that introduces artifacts on the highlights in basically anything that moves.
It is funny that basically the alexas always were as good as the reds using hdrx or now highlight extension mode :)
first! woo
Do you think they’ll release an s35 version of the Raptor X, or will they stick to just manufacturing Komodo’s to meet the s35 global shutter demand?
I'm not sure, the KX is close to a S35 RAPTOR already! Jake
@@CVPTV Appreciate the response!
Does Canon Dual Gain Output show the same ghosting?
No, the ghosting is because RED uses different shutter speeds but canon and arri adjust sensor gain and exposure time stays the same.
Why doesn’t cvp have xyla charts when you can without a problem compare it to a raptor vv or an alexa 35?
Because it’ll show that a sensor with a 14bit ADC can’t possibly have more than 14 stops of dynamic range on a XYLA chart. That’s not a bad thing… unless you claim 21+ stops like Red does…but my Arri has had 14+ stops since 2010 lol.
I'm hoping us getting them is on the horizon, but RED have actually released their own XYLA's for this release. Jake
❤❤❤
Extended Highlights looks pretty similar to ZCam's Wide DR mode. Seems like the DGO and DRboost are better since they're frames taken at the same time with the same shutter speed but with different sensor level sensitivities.
The problem with ZCAM's WDR is that it doesn't give you that many more stops. I think in reality it gives 1 extra stop, but that is on top of a 10 stop camera. So 11 in total.
I think the difference is by using a dual shutter, the image will look cleaner (less noisy), but the down side are the motion artifacts especially in backlit scenarios.
It would've been helpful to go +8 stops to see at which point the camera clips
I will do this Monday and post the results in the comment here. Jake
@@CVPTV awesome
Here you go! www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/aomrpct0plvem3322r8ru/h?rlkey=mt6ktyc39h9gd69pxk837fi0h&e=1&dl=0
@@CVPTV So up to 9 stops without clipping? Am I reading this right?
Correct. Jake
Having global shutter and then messing up your motion with EH mode is kind of counter intuitive. That said it isn't baked into the footage so when the budget allows having that extra information to play with is a no brainer. With post VFX the motion could be cleaned up.
That said if you don't need 8K and budget allows the Alexa 35 makes more sense as you have all that information without any need for post work.
ARRI will lead in dynamic range as long as their patent is existing. All the other companies are simply being gimped with the sensors they can produce. They have to push for higher and higher resolution to get more dynamic range from down sampling which is why the Venice 2 performs so well. Even the Raptor VV is using software to get better highlight retention, like Blackmagics post highlight recovery tool. You can't compete with ARRI's double exposure tech. As an Owner Op the standard Raptor VV makes more sense at 20k used. It's certainly the best new camera in that price range, especially if you need a small footprint, nothing comes close. I'd honestly prefer an Alexa mini which can be had for a similar price used. However the mini is much larger and has a higher power draw.
So how does this compare to the newest arri's?
We compare it's latitude to the A35 in the video, in what other regard would you like in compared? Jake
RED changing the game
Red is patent troll
yea. by destroying the industry with patent theft and abuseing their customers?
@@zulfika_ Also Arri!
They patended their dual gain tech
Is it true the Komodo X is just a Glorified GoPro of a camera? Now I got save up for a V Raptor.
You are very funny. More please
🔥😎👍🏿
I'm sorry RED, really wanted to upgrade my Komodo to this Raptor X but Alexa 35 is still king especially when HDR TVs are dirt cheap nowadays.
Apparently there is no camera out there that can beat the Arri alexa ! Arri is always the boss of cameras
Maybe for the highlights mode you need to add motion blur in post production to eliminate the artifacts but that will overheat the computer and will take ages to render.
Did you guys swap the antenna on the wifi port? Need to get myself one of them small ones for my X.
No this is the one straight out of the box. It's a standard Male RP SMA Wi-Fi antenna, so you can grab a stubby one pretty easily online. Jake
As a C300iii owner/operator, one of the biggest things keeping me on that system has been DGO and the stellar dynamic range from that sensor.
Global shutter is cool but I suspect it’s not gonna be as game changing for most cinematographers as it’s being hyper to be. But the extended highlight mode I feel WILL be a game changer, especially as it develops and gets updated which I suspect firmware will be able to do.
It makes this sensor similar to the DGO architecture in practicality and the fact that it’s toggleable on/off unlike DGO is even a +1 over DGO
DGO doesn't have any artifacts, whereas the Extended Highlight mode can't be used with contrasty moving images - that's a big chunk of all images! They can tweak it in firmware, but fundamentally it is blending two images with differents shutter speeds together, so they will always have to artificially create motion blur, which is hard to do, and processor intensive. Give me DGO any day of the week.
@@DaCarnival Right. fundamentally it's not the same thing; Red is using shutter speed to accomplish their extended dynamic range while Canon (and Arri for that matter) are using ISO to achieve theirs.
But in practical application it can be applied similarly. And don't get me wrong, I'm the biggest advocate of the benefits of DGO, I preordered my C300iii before the launch event was even finished because I knew it was going to be stellar and I'm excited for Canon to release a full frame version of DGO. But what has me excited is Red embracing a similar feature (albeit a different approach) and giving us the option to use it or not. And the artifacting isn't from artificial motion blur, the motion blur is built into the lower shutter speed while the highlight retention/rolloff is captured at the higher shutter speed which means that the artifacts are due to how they're combining the simultaneous frames not from something artificial like we see from an Optical Flow or frame blending. There's no artificial rendering going on here. So because of that, there's a lot of room for improvement which we can see from the examples that they received back from Red in this video with their new (yet to be released) processing for the EH mode
Let me just say that the original Raptor and Raptor X has more DR than the C300ii in standard mode without extended highlights turned on or the need for DGO. This extended highlights feature is done for one reason, and that’s to make life easier in extreme uncontrollable situations without having to underexpose and trading noiser shadows for cleaner highlights, which with raptor if you actually use the camera, noise isn’t noticeable until 3200 if your shooting for the purpose of retaining as much highlight detail as possible. With extended highlights now you don’t have to do that if you don’t want. But the situations where the extended highlights are truly needed are few and far between. Original raptor was already 2nd in DR only a little behind the A35.
@@leochilly The Mark iii actually matches the DR of the Original Raptor basically identically. I've tested them both side by side and they're both 16+ stops in real world scenarios. But I agree with you that the use cases are not gonna be universal and it will be an "every now and then" thing. I think the single biggest use case for it will be when a shot transitions from exterior to interior because the camera can handle the dynamic range of that shift and that's definitely a feature that gets me more excited than the global shutter frankly. I could see that being really useful in a lot of work from narrative to documentary.
But I have a feeling that opinion might change when we get into some VFX heavy work too because that's where that global shutter is really going to shine
I have both V-Raptor and C300iii and the V-Raptor has better highlights. Plus I find C300iii to be a bit mushy looking. It's kind of soft, even for 4K. I prefer skintones on the C300iii tho. Overall, I still prefer C300iii over the FX9 since that's it's closest rival
I was really hoping the EH was gonna blow me away... It didn't. Here's hoping Canon will produce a full frame sensor with DGO!
I'm super intrigued to see what Canon do this year! Out of interest what did you want from EH mode to blow you away? Jake
@@CVPTV It's a good idea in theory, but in pratice, EH is a gimmick. I can't think of a single reason why I would use this other than being outside with some sort of motion/contrasty shot. That makes the feature useless, no? It's basically HDRx on steroids and I never used that feature because of similar artifacting. Anyway, another great video from you guys! Keep it up.
RED did it, they made a camera I would choose over an Alexa
It's a hell of a camera! Jake
When do we need dynamic range the most? When the main subject is backlight. When does the „extended highlights“ mode fails? When it‘s backlight.
🤦♂️ And do not tell me „Just a Beta version“ REDs AF is in Beta since 2020 😒
Nice haircut
Cheers bud. Jake
RED ❤
Red raptor x vs Sony Burano please
No comparison. Raptor wins
I wonder if 5 to 10 years from now Rolling Shutter sensors will be dead and buried forever. Any reason to keep making them in the future?
they are cheaper which is great for entry level and cheaper cameras.
Global shutter == film look.
For a camera that costs as much as a decent vehicle these days, apparently it just takes money. Who knew.
Everything is "X" now: X, Space X, Komodo X, V-Raptor X, Lumix S5 ii X, Pepper X…
Whats gonna be neXt?
Y
nah you mean how is the Nikon V-Raptor [X]
exactly
the dynamic range and EH on the raptor x is groundbreaking
Mr. Burns, your campaign seems to have the momentum of a runaway train. Why are you so popular?
What?
Can't you make the footage look cinematic? It looks like dslr footage.
yes, you can.
That's not ff as its 40mm not 35mm
Sad that it’s only exclusively for those with plenty of dollar. Is the price really justifiable? And like how much better are these cameras than say a FX6? Is it really 32000 dollars better?
A lot of us rent cameras from job to job. I can't say if it's worth it for your projects, but I'd definitely choose this over an FX6 for some projects, and I'd use an FX6 for others.
great video... but i really dont like this company...
almost scammers...
Who us or RED?!
Don't care too much for the brand and their patenttroll practices. But I do like how they are pushing global shutters. I hope that it becomes the norm again.
Anyone wanna buy a kidney...?
This is really nice, but could we know how AI generated videos will affect your industry now? specially with the imminent release of SORA?
For that price I take the Sony Burano
why?
Let us know how much you love the rolling shutter in Burano.
I like how RED just shit on Sony's Global shutter just like that. Though Sony camera are made for different purpose, but if you watch the A9III launch, their executive brag about "of course we still maintain the same dynamic range. We are Sony, we are the biggest sensor manufacturer". Talking about big talk small cock.
6000$ vs 30000$ and you do maintain the same dynamic range. A9 III has less noise reduction out the box than other consumer cameras and it has the same dynamic range as FX6 with noise reduction turned down.
lol
So basically the extended highlights mode is cramming extra 4 stops of dynamic range into a single value representing there 16th stop on top of the 2 extra recovery stops that only contain luma and not chroma information? I don't see this as an improvement but simply cheating
It's only for exposures sake. Cheating? RED have been incredibly open about how they are achieving this and we've made it very clear in this video the EH modes pro's and con's. RED aren't the only people do have done a method like this. Jake
It's only "cheating" if we're treating it as a competition that you can "win"! Instead, you can use Red's EH mode when it's right for one project, and you can use Alexa or another camera when it's right for another. So: filmmakers win!
X is such an awful name for it though, why not just call it the GS model, like V-Raptor VV GS
RED fixed their naming conventions with their last DSMC2 cameras and then made it more complicated with DSMC3, so frustrating. Jake
Nothing new from a Patent troll...
Not any more...
Yet another overpriced toy
🤣 did you accidentally stumble upon this channel and have never worked on a film set?
Just like pretty much every camera out there
dude. You are suppose to make hollywood films or professional commercial productions. They are suppose to make you money.
also you basically always should rent them. never buy