Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS): “When Elyon gave the nations as an inheritance, when he separated the sons of man, he set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God (bene elohim). For Yahweh’s portion was his people; Jacob was the lot of his inheritance”. Masoretic Text (MT): “When Elyon gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all the sons of man, he set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel (bene yisrael). For Yahweh’s portion was his people, Jacob was the lot of his inheritance”. Septuagint (LXX): “When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the boundaries of the nations according to the number of the angels of God (aggelón theou). And his people Jacob became the portion of the Lord, Israel was the line of his inheritance”. Samaritan Pentateuch (SP): "When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. For the LORD's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance, Israel" .
I love that like a true *historian,* Bart doesn't *really care if you believe* the *"narrative"* or not, he just tries to get to the *truth and origins* of the stories ect..
That’s theology, as opposed to divinity studies or seminary. Theology assumes there is exaggeration in every tale, unlike the others. Religion is just folktales on steroids. Unwavering faith would make Grimm’s fairytales every bit as much of a solid cultural foundation as the Bible to a student of Theology.
@@almitrahopkins1873I'd argue that history is even more important than theology. That and linguistics. Reading the history of what was happening politically and then looking at the story's is enlightening. The bible is full of political commentary lol
@@jessicamessica2271 The problem is that evangelical Christians, especially the literalists, take their Bible as history and all other histories as false. I can pinpoint the rough period where the event mythologized in Exodus would have had to happen, but it requires approaching it from a point of view that the event was legendary, not entirely mythology. The Evangelicals blow a gasket at that notion. Looking at the history of the period between Amenhotep IV (Anhkenaten) to Paramessu (Ramesses I) all of the major details of the story in Exodus could be derived from recorded history. You have reference to hebirru mercenaries in the Amarna letters, meaning the Hebrew were in Egypt, just not as slaves (as we would understand it). We have the kingdom of Mitanni (Midian) just north of the Egyptian borders at Kadesh in modern-day Syria. We have the restoration of the temples during the reign of Tutanhkamun, Ay and Horemheb, giving us the context for the Golden Calf. We have the founding of a new capitol by Paramessu whose regnal name was Ramesses, so using the name Paramessu would be a denial of his divinity (Paramessu and Pi-Ramesses are spelled the same in Hebrew). Ramesses I and his son Seti I fought several campaigns against rebellious tribes in the Levant. The Bible alone paints Exodus as an escape from slavery without any corroboration. Once you begin to interpret it with additional details from history and archeology, it looks more like a revolt by the mercenaries levied in Canaan against the levy of workers to build the new capitol of the first king in the 19th dynasty. You have to dismiss the legendary history in the Bible as being inaccurate and compare it to other histories to see a complete narrative and accurate history.
@@jessicamessica2271The Bible's purpose is to be subversive on some level. It's presenting non-Jews with a specific story in the NT & it has succeeded.
Even if "Moses" existed, he did not turn the Nile river to blood, he did not turn his staff into a snake, he did not cause plagues on Egypt, and he did not part the Red sea. Interesting fact: Before the movie staring Charlton Heston, approximately 35% of Christians, when asked, said they believed that Moses was real and that he parted the Red sea. After the movie hit the theaters, a survey was done and that number went up to 75%. Amazing what a great acting job can do for a fictional tale.
@@DeadstockDownsouth just a thought but maybe go to a RUclips video debating the legitimacy of Muhammad’s claims if you want to see those comments? What an idiotic thing to comment under a video titled did mosses exist.
A few weeks ago, I visited the West Bank. Our group went to a Jewish settlement on the West Bank that is considered illegal under international law, because it is on land that belongs to the Palestinians. We listened to one of the settlers tell us that Israel has the right to control all of the land on the West Bank, because God gave it to them (see one of the stories about Moses in Deuteronomy 34:4, for example). The settler said that he believes that the story of the Exodus, in which about 2.5 million people left Egypt for the promised land, is literally true. Never mind the fact that a group of people about 20 times the population of my home town, Rochester MN (the third largest city in MN at 121500 people) wandered across the desert and did not leave the slightest trace of any archeological evidence. This highlights the problem with Biblical literalism. If you believe that the story of Moses and the Exodus is literally true, you can justify stealing land from another group. If you instead believe that the story is a metaphor that highlights the human experience of moving from slavery to freedom (with all of its layers of meaning), you can now reach a completely different conclusion about how to treat your fellow human beings. The important work of Bart Ehrman and others is not just a purely academic matter. It has real consequences for how we treat our fellow human beings. That is why honest Biblical scholarship, that is not prejudiced by any a priori religious bias, is so important.
I wonder why they call it Israel? Could it be because it is Israel? The Israel that God gave to the Jews as an eternal inheritance, that would stretch from the Nile to the Euphrates? Thinking themselves wise...
All groups have their own myths. The million or so Jews expelled from Arab countries and whose descendants now live in Israel, and the more than a million Christians expelled from various Muslim lands and those various religious minorities still living in Muslim countries that continue to face ongoing discrimination and persecution might question the Islamic myths.
I just can’t help but think the Egyptian monotheistic Aten cult influenced Israelite religion somehow. Moses is an Egyptian name but also Aaron, Miriam and other Levites.
@@pedrosaborido9648 No, doesn't make sense. The Hyksos had been in power and ruled as pharaos until they were expelled, eventually sieged and destroyed in Canaan.
Jericho was already destroyed in the 16th century BCE and never rebuilt, and its last walls had only existed for not more than a few decades. The most plausible origin was therefore Iah-Moses/Aa-Moses a.k.a. Ahmose, who happened to claim Amen "the Father" himself had spoken to him and defeated pharaoh (the ruling Hyksos). Even the name Aa-ron starts with the same syllable and hints to the same time, the end of the 2nd intermediate period.
@@pedrosaborido9648 The Hyksos, were expelled from Egypt and pursued by the Egyptian to the banks of the Euphrates in 1450BCE. The nations of Israel and Judah did not take shape until the 10th century Egypt controlled Canaan from 1450BCE until they lost there last fortress at Jaffa in 1126BCE
@@pedrosaborido9648 I beg to differ. We know the Hebrews were Canaanites living in the hills of Canaan. We know they formed two separate nations by the 9th century. This has been confirmed by the Assyrian's and the Moabites who engaged them in battle. We also have the city of Samaria built by King Omri and dated to the 9th century
The Levant was a crossroads that connected a number of ancient cultures. It's not unreasonable that stories known to those other cultures were spread through the area.
Geostrategic military economic rampart and naturally that makes sense then and now. White so called Jews are imported and misled by supremacy religion and escapism to become dupes quislings and labor occupiers to hold stolen territory by their masters, investors bosses and misleaders...a trite common sad story where you find UK US Fr Rome Germany.. Swiss... Royal Scam & Grand Illusion or Game of Lives
@@serpentsepia6638That doesn't make any sense. Exodus 21:20-21 reads “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." In other words, you can beat your slave (with a rod) as long as that act doesn't actually kill them within a couple days. Perhaps because after that point it is hard to tell whether your beating was the cause of their death. Where does it say you can't beat your slave?
let me explain simply heaven and hell... hell is the darkness of space without being allowed to par take in the circle of life or live under the light of suns as a soul! God of all himself will remove you if you go against his philosophy of life completely as have some in the past of past planets and civilisations like on mars... Heaven is the complete opposite and is when we advance spiritually from living as a live human being without dying we are accepted by god to become a sun ourself and give life to the planets around thy sun being... we can incarnate on these planets if we choose too help influence its ways of life and teach also... but know this is not heaven... when we become a sun we are allowed to enter heaven regularly like a HUB MEETING SPACE! but that HUB happens to be the world you spiritually advanced on... and all those who spiritually advanced on that planet too will be there in the hub if ever they choose to visit it instead of there own suns planets... I was given the chance to become a sun but I was afraid at first from my lack of experience... I live here now as a man and realise I'm not afraid anymore to become more then just a man... or a soul who spawns as a man on planets... the sun of this realm is the god of this realm... know it is not the GOD OF ALL though... for each sun in space has a GOD OVER IT... being the ORIGINAL FIRST SUN... the first light... that is the SOUL of which MADE FIRST LIFE PSYICALLY NOT JUST DREAMS... and so we call him the GOD OF ALL and we live in his realms learning how we too can manifest OUR OWN DREAMS IN OUR OWN WORLDS... thank you all for listening now you know your goal in life besides growing old... gain more light and become a sun following the GOD OF ALL and practice giving life to other!
We all have a primordial soul which is immortal. When the body dies, this soul reincarnates either here or Hell. Heaven can only be obtained when we are alive....................falundafa
Regarding Egyptian names in a Hebrew story, Egypt occupied Canaan for hundreds of years, It was a vassel kingdom. The cities had Egyptian governors. A lot of them probably had Egyptian names. The Moses story reverses a trope where a person of humble origin is retrojectively given a secret, royal origin (e,g. Sargon, King Arthur). The trope is that a baby of royal heritage is secretly raised by peasants, but the Moses story claims that an Egyptian ruler was really secretly an Israelite.
Alternatively some understand the Levites as being the remnants of mixed race Egyptian officials (Hittite father Egyptian mother, Egyptian father Canaanite mother, kind of couplings) from the period of Egyptian dominance of Canaan. This is how they explain why so many Levite people have Egyptian names, distinct genetics, and no land claims in the Torah. Plus Levi is supposed to mean something like clinging or attached (Genesis says because now Jacob will cling to me that I gave birth) ie people attached to the land but not from it.
I actually attended one Rabbi Wolpe's events discussing the topic of the historicity of the Exodus. It was fascinating, because on the one hand he says "no, it didn't really happen, at least how it is written" but "nevertheless we all stood there at Sinai." I guess this is a "may not be true mythology but it is OUR mythology" things, but then one has to ask what that means to you.
The biblical geography has been misinterpreted from day one. The entire theatre of the biblical events is Southern Arabia. most of the places still go by their biblical names and some have witnessed little variation. The biblical few names existing now in and around current Israel came into being as a result of human immigrations and return from the captivity in today's Iraq. The captivity took place from Yemen. Beni Israel as well as like other 80 ( Beni) Tribes.
Moonpearl Living where they did The Jews of those days always had to define themselves in relation to Egypt whose shadow loomed over them. The Exodus story was a good way to do that (except when it wasn't).
Have any of you heard about Sigmund Freud's book MOSES AND MONOTHEISM? He wasn't a biblical scholar, but he was extremely well-read and he wanted to explore the reason why the Jews consider themselves the "Chosen People," and why they were sure that there was only one "True God," who devoted all of his time to guiding their history, all of which got them into a lot of trouble over the centuries from other peoples whose land they wandered into. Anyway, the book was highly controversial, but Freud had scholarly sources for arguing that "Moses" was an Egyptian priest, who subscribed to the theory of Akhenatan, a pharaoh who established a new cult in the 14th century B.C. arguing there was only one God, a solar God named "Aton." In this act, Pharaoh Akhenatan was able to consolidate power in Egypt by undermining the gods in other cities and the priests who claimed their power through their own brand of gods. Anyway, when Akhenatan died, there was civil war and subsequently the other gods were re-certified. Freud suggested that one particular priest "Moses" remained faithful to the teaching regarding Akhenatan's God - and made his appeal to the Israelite Jewish community living as an underclass in Egypt - convinced them - and then led them out of Egypt. It's a wild card, but Freud published the book in the 1930s when anti-semitism was ratcheting up all over Europe and he took a lot of grief for this book, which he really didn't have to write and publish so late in his own life...
Big influencer for Phrma bros selling cocaine for two competitors, ONE US, One European I recall ... He's productive and imperfect yet indelibly contributory.
Per Prof Israel Finkelstein, archeological evidence shows the Torah could not have been written before the 7th century. There are too many cites and countries mentioned to have been written before that date. i.e the country of Edom did not exist before 725BCE.
As a child, I questioned, among many questions on the fairie tales we, as children, were commanded to believe under pain of being cast into a pit of fire, WHO it was that witnessed 'Moses' being placed into a basket and set adrift, followed the basket carrying 'Moses' all the way to Pharoah's daughter, observed 'Moses' growing up, committing murder, fleeing, marrying, returning and then spending 40 years to travel 200 miles and lived to write the biography.
Religious fairy tales? Says the atheist fool that believes the human being came from a rock, that morality came from a mud puddle, that life can come from a warm pond. Son, we have billions of mud puddles, rocks & warm ponds. NONE OF THEM has ever produced anything NEW. You're atheist desperation is noted. SORRY KID, but it’s blatant stupidity (atheism) to think that star dust, moist rocks and mud puddles have the INTELLIGENCE, POWER, PURPOSE AND MEANS to create/design LIFE, INTELLIGENCE, LOVE, CONSCIOUSNESS, MORALITY, the human being and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body :) Atheism is pure idiocy. MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
Bart is a bigoted anti-Christian - not very reliable - he often comes across as totally manipulative . while seemingly trying in some mesure to be objective
As a mythologist, I see Moses as a conflated culture hero, like Heracles. The Moses who committed murder and ran off to hide with the Kenites was not the same Moses who confronted Pharaoh, and not the same Moses who was inducted into the Midianite family priesthood by Jethro. I see a process similar to the melding of local Heracles legends into one character.
@@bibleburner8426 There are indications there was a collection of aphorisms circulated prior to Paul, who used them as a rough basis for his church. Twenty years later, "Mark" hung a narrative on the new religion. Where that story came from is unclear, though it seems to be a combination of Greek and Egyptian mythology in a Judaean setting.
@@bibleburner8426 Judaism Christianity? A copy? No. The Calendar does not decide truth, and the eternal infinite Christ existed before any cult or man or demon G0D period. Apparently, what you don’t realize is that G0D was the first on the scene and then Satan. Since that moment, Satan has counterfeited G0D, KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING. And that’s why you have cults and cheap COPIES of the Bible exhibiting The Doctrine of Demons (cults such as atheism, evolution, abiogenesis, star formation, big bang). So it doesn’t matter “when” G0D was “counterfeited” as long as you understand G0D was here first and after Lucifer (Satan) was cast out of heaven, he started to counterfeit G0D’S aims from that point onward. "There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
The Mahabharata, a book out of the Vedas, the oldest continuously practiced religion on the planet which birthed Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikh, Janists, Karna a son of one of the Gods was born of a young unmarried woman who put him in a basket and floated him down the river. He was found by a carriage driver, not a princess. He became great with superhuman talents with no training.
In Jungian terns you could just say these are the archetypes bubbling up in different cultures. The miraculous birth, the flight from enemies, the test of faith, etc.
@Cat.Daddy. Just because an author calls something "the fifth Veda" does not make a text part of the Vedic corpus. The Vedas were composed between 1800 BCE and 1200 BCE and consist of the Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva and the oldest of each book is the Samhitas. The Vedic period ends after 1100 BCE or so. The Mahabharata is a post-Vedic text that began to be composed around 500 BCE.
THis sounds like a really great course. I'm glad that MVP made all of us aware of it. Yeah, I've wondered a lot about the history of Moses before, so glad a Course is devoted to it by BDE.
History says that Moses received God's message but really Moses as a god himself. People were not ready to understand back then that there are many gods in heaven....................falun dafa
So interesting, I love it when Bart said talking of ancient history, "we just don't know that much." I know it's hard to fathom time, like 10,000 years from now. Heck, they may be someone who claims the United States was just a myth, it never really was a nation. I mean, who's to say this place won't be obliterated in 3,000 years. After another 3,000 years everything destroyed and lost, and another 4,000 years passes and new people start building. Give them 100 years or so to really start populating, opening education, and another 300-500 years the folks around really have come along ways in their 500 year history and start fining ancient artifacts and study those for several generations, and on and on. How do we know anything:) HA!
It amuses me to think that a thousand years from now, scholars will stake their reputations on interpretations of ragged scraps of Golden and Silver Age comic books.
"And what does the consensus say." How many times in history has the 'consensus' been upended? In reality you shouldn't trust 'consensus' as far as you could kick it.
Well, we rely on empiricism for reasons. Consensus is valuable and worth pursuing. It's just also a good idea to keep in mind the reliability of people in a given field.
@@rainbowkrampus Sounds good, but as history shows, 'consensus' has also often been used as a means of deceiving and indocrinating people, e.g, the climate 'crisis'/global warming scam, the virus/vaccine disaster, the evolution hoax, and false reasons to go to war, etc.
When in history have they had access to the technology and resources we have today? Seems to me it's a lot easier to upend the historical consensus in the past when people were extremely limited when writing history.
Not many are aware that back in the 1920's scholars, in professional journals, were debating the finding of an ancient inscription at Serabit el Khadim whose name was MS or MS'S, some arguing this was Moses of Sinai fame. See my paper at ACADEMIA on the arguments (of the 1920s-2010).
@pineelblends8387Could you please say where exactly Dr. Bart Ehrman is wrong about what he teaches? It cannot be everything he says that’s wrong. Could you provide a couple examples of what he is wrong about and then share why it’s wrong? That would very helpful. Thanks.
Dr. Ehrman is very credible in my opinion. He learned the classical languages of biblical literature and gained the academic credentials of theology. His critical thinking and objectivity are respectable.
Error-man didn’t receive his degree at an accredited university, he graduated from a Bible college, taught at a Bible college, and is dean of a Bible college, pretends to be an atheist so his books can sell.
@Fides Non Sequitur No, he admits he belief in his quote: "There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
In the past few months I've read a few semi-scholarly works about Moses, coming from the same group of people. Before they go wack-a-doodle (to use the scientific term) toward the end of their books (and many of them do), they put up a good argument that Moses and his family were in some way closely related to Akhenaten (if not Akhenaten = Moses) and were also exiled from Egypt. One fellow said that Moses' people were incorporated into Israel as the Twelfth Tribe, and their backstory adjusted to fit Israel more comfortably. This puts Akhenaten, the first monotheist, as having had a heavy hand in influencing the Israeli pov. I like to think the Ten Plagues were memories of the eruption of Thera, and I've also seen studies where high prevailing winds swept most of the water out of some largish lake between Egypt and Israel, which has been witnessed many times in historical times, and might have been so remarkable so as to have been incorporated into this story.
@herbalgerbil Well, that or the story didn't actually happen, so of course they aren't going to mention an actual Pharaoh, lol. Then you could discredit the story.
The smoking gun for me is that no other culture is ever heard of moses, Even after allegedly leading two million people out of egypt to conquer the Levant.
Most respected Dr Ehrman, we cannot thank you for what you have done. You are spreading and sharing your knowledge and information which will indeed change the views of generations. Like myself many Muslims are waiting when you will read and search Quran and then talk about it. 🌻 its always good to hear you 🌻
@@joygibbons5482 Dear o dear, for more than 1400-years all the aniti-Quran-Muslim champions have lost their battles, we know no one can win against the greatest of All Allah tabarak wa ta'ala. This book is not found in mud, water or in caves it has been revealed by God to his Messenger, like other scriptures before it. Joy, did you ever read Quran ? if not you cannot get it. Thanks for your comments. Rgds
Maybe Moses and the Exodus come from various tales involving various people. Considering the closeness, wars and interactions between Egypt and Palestine, I'd assume there was multiple immigration and emigration. The Exodus story had a level of violence and we know wars were fought up and down those lands. Further, I cannot think that the biblical plagues were anything other than what happened when Santorini blew up, but scholars keep insisting the Exodus happened a few hundred years later. Whatever happened when Santorini exploded. many people in the area would have had experiences of biblical proportions.
@kristina zboodramPhilistines came before Israelites lmao, read the Bible! We know Israelites were there because of the Bible, Philistines are one of Canaanites tribes, they are native of the land didn't Israelites fought Philistines to get that land to begin with, I don't think ever happened Philistines and Israelites are the same group of people in the beginning but after 2000 years conflict happened different minds etc. Canaanites=Arabs, Phoenicians, Assyrians, Israelites etc basically natives of middle east. In reality Israelites are part of Canaanites as well, Israelites are one of Canaanites tribes.
Simcha Jacobvici has done a whole video on Moses moving events to the destruction of Santorini. Unlike Error-man, he actually went to sites that support. Unlike Error-man, Simcha does not claim to be a biblical scholar. Simcha is an investigative journalist unlike Error-man who is a Bible College hack, who makes up theories and pretends to be an expert.
Jesus is real: "There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36 Try to learn.
His comment about biblical scholars with faith commitments is surprising. I just don’t understand how any biblical scholar could stay religious after becoming so familiar with the book that it’s abundantly clear that humans wrote it with human agendas in mind, and then a plethora of editors chimed in their their own agendas over thousands of years. That’s the crack that broke my faith in the end.
I love the way, when faced with biblical contradictions...internal or external...Christians invent explanations that aren't supported by observable evidence, historical record, or the _Bible._ I love it even more when the explanations they invent to _rationalize_ contradictions in _one_ part of the Bible end up _creating more_ contradictions to _other_ parts of the Bible. As for Moses/Sargon, Noah/Gilgamesh, etc. - It's reasonable to conclude that oral tradition...as oral tradition does...kept old stories alive, while updating and modifying them over time. Finaly Note: Rather than, "Take it with a grain of salt," I would love to hear Dr. Ehrman...or an interviewer...present the pun, "Take it with a _pillar_ of salt."
Cyrus Gordon wrote the book THE COMMON BACKGROUND OF GREEK AND HEBREW CIVILIZATIONS in 1965 in which he uncovers numerous linguist and mythic links between the two.
This site is so good....intellectual and educational....people with real knowledge and honest enough to admit even they don't know enough to give cast iron opinions...
The fact that Moses was named Moses, an Egyptian name, is unremarkable. It is the type of thing that an author of fiction must do at the bare minimum. He was named by an Egyptian pharaoh, according to the story, and had to blend in as an Egyptian throughout his early life. His name, therefore, doesn't make the story more historically credible.
Moses still exists. That is why Scripture reminds us that "We are compassed about by so great a cloud of witnesses." (Hebrews 12:1) Abraham exists too, and Jesus said that Abraham rejoiced to see His day. The question is; where will you exist when you're done here. Be careful not to blaspheme or you will be leaving us prematurely.
That's interesting cause there is a Pharaoh called Amon-sé that sounds like Moses , and is said that this Pharaoh opened the Nilo River to find his fiance's ring. Can you see the similarities?
It was written in Alexandria, under Greek rule, having benefitted from Greek intellectual culture, in the shadow of Herodotus and Thucydides et al, and with a desire to produce a similar monument to themselves, probably occurring with the "translation" of the Septuagint. It demonstrates for a Greek readership an allegedly ancient Jewish relationship with the Egyptians (whom the Greeks revered) and, moreover, it serves as an example of how gentile rulers who treat the Jews poorly will face the murderous wrath of YHWH. It's not History. It's ethno-religious propaganda within a very specific historical context and power dynamic, with very particular aims.
Great question Derek. I noticed a big commonalities between Greek and Hebrew understanding. For example the Greek concept of miasma and blood guilt in the Hebrew Bible.
On this topic, I highly recommend reading Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus, by Russell Gmirkin. There is no archeological evidence for the Pentachuch before it appears translated into Greek (the Septuigent or LXX) around 270 BC. Gmirkin shows that the Pentachuch derived from Greek sources in the library of Alexandria and was most likely composed between 273 and 273 BC.
Judaism Christianity? A copy? No. The Calendar does not decide truth, and the eternal infinite Christ existed before any cult or man or demon G0D period. Apparently, what you don’t realize is that G0D was the first on the scene and then Satan. Since that moment, Satan has counterfeited G0D, KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING. And that’s why you have cults and cheap COPIES of the Bible exhibiting The Doctrine of Demons (cults such as atheism, evolution, abiogenesis, star formation, big bang). So it doesn’t matter “when” G0D was “counterfeited” as long as you understand G0D was here first and after Lucifer (Satan) was cast out of heaven, he started to counterfeit G0D’S aims from that point onward. "There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
you have serious misconception about how we decide what goes in the Bible and not , unlike what you believe , it's not plucked from thin air and there are various ways we can tell the fakes from the authentic ruclips.net/video/KteyU2x-qPU/видео.html and then there are the other hidden words within words ruclips.net/video/RmnUkNT55gU/видео.html
Na Buddy da Vinci code doesn’t have code of morality and future event prophecies so stop talking stupidity just because you want to justify your lifestyle
I have for some time now changed my way of responding to these questions of biblical characters existing. I used to just answer NO to most of the ones suggested when asked like this....did Moses exist... But I find that biblical believers are stubborn and hard headed about this type of topics and shut down and are not very responsive or open minded to continue discussing when they are just told NO. And then go on to say why.. They shut down and get defensive.. So I changed my tactics about a year or two ago. I no longer just say no.. I tell them that the biblical character narrative as portrayed in the bible ... That character never existed. This leaves them wiggle room to have curiosity as to what I mean and what I am talking about. I know there was no biblical character of a Moses...this character never existed.. not to any portion of the story narrative. Now grant it some version of some character or person may have existed at some point that some story narrative was taken from and expanded upon... I don't think we can prove or disprove that.. But I will challenge it when biblical apologists and believers want to assert specific and exact biblical characters that existed when we know for certain they did not.
The reason why believers are stubborn and closed-minded is because the alternative to non-belief is nihilism. If all these religious stuffs are just fictional make-believe fantasies, then that means human beings are nothing but just carbon-based organisms that after death, people will simply not exist anymore. Void for eternity of non-existence. It's a very depressing reality to live and think about it. You would rather stick with religion and make yourself happy.
I've read almoat all of Bart's books on Christianity. Extremely enlightening and scholarly. The story of Moses being floated down the Nile to be adopted by a princess has been told before in Sargon of Akkad. So like the story of the flood, the story of Moses has roots in nearby civilizations. The ancient Egyptians were copious writers. They documented everything. The amount of grain harvested year to year, the amount of wheat harvested, the amount of beer made, we have even found graffiti on the walls of the pyramids. But not one mention of the Hebrew slaves. Not one word about the 10 plagues. Especially thr death of thr first male born. That meant every family had lost a father, a son, a brother, an uncle all in one night yet not one person wrote down "WTF! Someone died in every family last night! It was all first born males!" Not one person wrote about the hundreds of thousands of Hebrews who left Egypt. Hundreds of thousands of people more than thr entire population of thr Levant, yet not one shred of archeological evidence of where they lived. It takes a huge amount of food and resources to feed so many people jd they leave a lot of trash. Not one piece of solid evidence. The Pharoah's entire army drowned in the Red Sea, or thr Sea of Reeds, so every family lost a family member in the army. Not one mention of it.
@@pedrosaborido9648 We know how Israel and Judah were born. After the Bronze Age collapse and the withdrawal of Egypt from Canaan between 1150 and 1126BCE the Hebrew tribes that were living in the highlands migrated to the plains.
@@pedrosaborido9648 Thutmose (also rendered Thutmoses, Thutmosis, Tuthmose, Tutmosis, Thothmes, Tuthmosis, Djhutmose, etc.) is an Anglicization of the Ancient Egyptian personal name dhwty-ms, usually translated as "Born of the god Thoth". (Thank you, Wikipedia.) Ancient Egyptian script has no vowels. Consequently we don't actually KNOW what vowel sounds they used. Something can be inferred from related languages. But not a lot. In the case of Thutmes, the important or specific part of that name is Thoth. The "mes" simply indicates "born of" and could be appended to many other names. So "Moses" is kind of a bizarre name. It's like saying "son of" without giving the name of the parent. Maybe that was the idea. Maybe Jews of that time would have understood that and seen it as pointing toward the mystery of his birth. "Moses" ... "born of" ... whom?
@@fepeerreview3150 it's absolute fantasy and the writers of the books deliberately just called him moses precisely because he could not be found in the recorded history if he was properly named. So keep it nice and vague like all novelists do and make out that this half a title is actually a name.
Biggest question is - Are you doing post-production work on your audio? The sound is great on my pair of JBL headphones. The voice is deep, yet clear and very majestic sound effects... like God talking. What microphone are you using?
Moses IS the historic figure pharoah Akhenaten. Red haired blue eyed Rh- Like the same ones in burial mounds from china, Americas Europe, everywhere. We landed on the shores and taught the entire world after the deluge.
Fun thing, when Bart argues about New Testament details, he regularly uses the logical construct: this episode (e.g. John the Baptist baptizing Jesus) is likely to be true, because if it was invented by early Christians, they would have told it otherwise, because being baptized by someone else, impies being in a subordinate position to the baptizer, therefore they must have inherited this story (and that's why they had probably added the detail of God acknowledging Jesus after the event: to reinforce his being the hihger level being). Now the same logical construct is used quite differently when he suggest, it must have been a clever Israelite giving the Egyptian name, Moses to the protagonist of his story. Oops.
I am reluctant to say this, but amongst today's young people, without a specifically religious training and background, whether Moses existed or not is a matter of utter indifference to them.
Opinion of majority Christian scholars is that the oldest or earliest manuscripts are more reliable than the newest and later one but I think that the message and credibility matters most, everyone knows Paul's letters is earlier than Synoptic Gospels but the Doctrine of Paul is his own make on the other hand if we found 2nd century manuscript transmitted through oral tradition or scattered manuscript among true followers of Jesus and his desciples and then written down in a single well attested document in 2nd century so which one we have to trust upon.
@@zekdom A quick read of Deut 31 indicates that Moses "wrote down" some portion(s) of the law. There is no indication that he authored the whole of the pentateuch.
I was watching a video on the Sumerians… I was surprised to learn that the the first writing (cuneiform) only emerged around 4000 BCE … which seems to be several thousands of years after the proposed earliest events of the Bible. So, obviously, those early events could not have been written down… Just a bit of context that never previously occurred to me
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36 Judaism Christianity? A copy? No. The Calendar does not decide truth, and the eternal infinite Christ existed before any cult or man or demon G0D period. Apparently, what you don’t realize is that G0D was the first on the scene and then Satan. Since that moment, Satan has counterfeited G0D, KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING. And that’s why you have cults and cheap COPIES of the Bible exhibiting The Doctrine of Demons (cults such as atheism, evolution, abiogenesis, star formation, big bang). So it doesn’t matter “when” G0D was “counterfeited” as long as you understand G0D was here first and after Lucifer (Satan) was cast out of heaven, he started to counterfeit G0D’S aims from that point onward. "There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
If we assume that the first two books of the Torah were a rip of earlier literature done in the 3rd Century BC, based largely on Berossus for Genesis and Manetho for Exodus, then the clear answer is YES. Manetho says he was an Osirian priest who took a different name when he led people out of Avaris for Jerusalem. Makes fascinating reading. Especially the part about the Hebrews having been 'slaves' in Egypt for four centuries ... when the shepherd kings had ruled Egypt in the 15th to sometime in the 18th dynasties.
Every character in the Bible is a fictional character from the talking snake to the talking donkey even the characters that were based on real historic people are fictional. Sort of like when you see the president of the US portrayed in a movie. The author wrote that dialog for the character to help tell a story.
No. The Calendar does not decide truth, and the eternal infinite Christ existed before any cult or man or demon G0D period. Apparently, what you don’t realize is that G0D was the first on the scene and then Satan. Since that moment, Satan has counterfeited G0D, KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING. And that’s why you have cults and cheap COPIES of the Bible exhibiting The Doctrine of Demons (cults such as atheism, evolution, abiogenesis, star formation, big bang). So it doesn’t matter “when” G0D was “counterfeited” as long as you understand G0D was here first and after Lucifer (Satan) was cast out of heaven, he started to counterfeit G0D’S aims from that point onward. "There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
Yep. I'd like to see anyone try to prove it either way. A book written by Man j8st tells it was written by man. Until God speaks to me directly and proves these "fictional tales" I will always ask for proof.
Check out Ahmose a.k.a. Jah- Moses. He had actually defeated a pharaoh (the last Hyksos), freed his people and led them from the desert into a promised land (the reunited New Kingdom), restored and reformed their religion, brought a new law, claimed Amen "the Father" himself had spoken to him and punished his enemies, made Amen the new most high god of the egyptian state religion, no other gods to be worshipped before him. The last walls of the historical Jericho were destroyed not long before Ahmose sieged and eventually destroyed the last Hyksos in Canaan.
Judaism Christianity? A copy? No. The Calendar does not decide truth, and the eternal infinite Christ existed before any cult or man or demon G0D period. Apparently, what you don’t realize is that G0D was the first on the scene and then Satan. Since that moment, Satan has counterfeited G0D, KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING. And that’s why you have cults and cheap COPIES of the Bible exhibiting The Doctrine of Demons (cults such as atheism, evolution, abiogenesis, star formation, big bang). So it doesn’t matter “when” G0D was “counterfeited” as long as you understand G0D was here first and after Lucifer (Satan) was cast out of heaven, he started to counterfeit G0D’S aims from that point onward.
Moses goes up Mt. Sinai to get the Tablets. it is green and lush there unlike the desert. he asks God if he could build a hospital. (first Mt. Sinai) God replies; take two Tablets and call me in the morning.
Maybe I've got this wrong, I'm going from memory (which isn't reliable as Dr. Ehrman has written about), but I remember reading about a lot about the origins of cultures and religions and that with regard to the origins of Judaism, pre-Babylonian exile, the culture you might call the Israelites were polytheists. They emerged in Canaan and Yahweh, far from being the one true god, was just one in a pantheon of gods that included the likes of Asherah, Ba'al and El, the latter of whom was the Zeus equivalent. The different city states and kingdoms in Canaan would have their own patron god and Yahweh was the patron of the kingdom of Israel but that didn't mean the other gods didn't exist or weren't to be worshipped. Athena is the patron god of Athens but the Athenians didn't outright ignore the other gods. But as time went on, Yahweh became more and more important. One of the theories is that the Babylonian exile really brought home the idea of holding on to their own culture and a concerted effort was made to drive home the idea that for the exiles, Yahweh was the only god they should worship and eventually, the only god that exists. Yahweh took on the properties of the other gods, particularly El (from which we derive Elohim - my god) and it's during this time that Genesis and particularly Exodus were put together as foundational myths for what became Judaism and post-exile the monotheistic view really took hold. It wasn't a complete shift though. The goddess Asherah, who in the old Canaanite pantheon had often been seen as the consort to El (and Ba'al in some stories i believe) became the consort to Yahweh and for a long time she was worshipped and revered, particularly in the home among women, even though it was frowned upon. I believe there's even evidence of little statues to Asherah being found in homes that date to within a century or two prior to the birth of Jesus. So monotheism took quite a while to fully take hold. How does this relate to the story of Moses? Well, the story may have existed pre-exile but it took a long time for it to truly become the basis of what we now call Judaism. Writing the story down might have actually served as a kind of marketing campaign by the priests of Yahweh to try to get people to stop worshipping the other gods. What's really interesting though is that Yahweh himself doesn't appear to be an original Canaanite god. While there is no evidence whatsoever that the Hebrews were ever slaves in Egypt (in fact Egyptian Pharaohs actually employed Egyptian citizens for their great works and paid them), Yahweh himself might have originated from Egypt or the surrounding area.
@@dreamscapesflstudiomobile So that's kinda complicated. You're right, it means "gods" but in the Biblical context, Elohim is used in the Jewish Bible as a singular when referring to God. It doesn't mean "my god," you're right about that. I don't know why I made that mistake. Maybe it was the subtitles in Passion Of The Christ or something lol In general terms, elohim is a word used to refer to the gods but is used specifically in the Bible to refer to the Jewish god.
In reference to Bart Ehrman’s assertion on there being a contradiction in the biblical text in regards to the livestock all being killed in one verse but later there are livestock present when it begins to hail, here are a few possible solutions that may clear up the confusion: If one or more of these solutions is correct then the alleged contradiction is eliminated. First, Exodus 9:3 states, “Behold, the hand of the Lord will be on your cattle in the field, on the horses, on the donkeys, on the camels, on the oxen, and on the sheep-a very severe pestilence.” Surprisingly, this verse does not mention one of the most important domestic animals at that time-the goat.1 Therefore, it is possible that all of the livestock except goats were killed in the first plague on the livestock (fifth plague overall), and in the second instance it was goats that were affected by the plague of hail. Second, Exodus 9:19-20 mentions that those who “feared the word of the Lord among the servants of Pharaoh” were told to get their livestock out of the fields. Some scholars mention that these Egyptians may have been warned about the previous plague of pestilence (although it was not recorded), so they still had all of their livestock left. In this scenario, God warned them to put all of their livestock in barns so they wouldn’t be killed by hail. The third possibility is similar to the previous explanation except that the survival of their livestock hinges on the phrase “servants of Pharaoh.” Perhaps this means they were not actually Egyptians, but other vassal subjects who were warned of the plagues so that their animals could be spared. So in Exodus 9:6, where it says that all the livestock of Egypt died, this view suggests that the animals belonging to these foreign vassals were spared if they obeyed God and not Pharaoh. Fourth, the Bible does not reveal how much time passed between the fifth plague and the seventh plague. Following the fifth plague, which wiped out the livestock of Egypt, the Egyptians may have taken some of the livestock belonging to Israel. Another possibility is that they bought (or took) livestock from surrounding areas (Libya, Ethiopia, Canaan, etc). The first option would require very little time to complete while the second would probably require at least a few weeks. But since the Bible does not specify how much time passed, either is possible. The fifth, and perhaps simplest solution, would be to acknowledge the fact that “all” does not always mean exclusively “all.”2 We must use the context to determine its meaning. In the case of Exodus 9:6, it might be best translated that “all manner of livestock of the Egyptians died.” In other words, the plague included all kinds of animals, as clarified in the third verse: “on the horses, on the donkeys, on the camels, on the oxen, and on the sheep-a very severe pestilence.” This is the approach taken in Coverdale’s translation, and the New English Translation includes a footnote with a similar explanation. Conclusion All five possibilities have some merit. Perhaps the truth consists of a combination of these views, or there may be another solution not addressed here. In any event, there is no contradiction. God demonstrated He was more powerful than the gods of Egypt, and He showed His wrath to the Egyptians and His mercy toward the Hebrews (and perhaps some other subjugated peoples). Source: Livestock or “Deadstock” Did the fifth plague kill all of the Egyptian livestock? by Troy Lacey on September 20, 2011 Featured in Demolishing Supposed Bible Contradictions: Volume 2 Did the fifth plague kill all of the Egyptian livestock? Troy Lacey, AiG-U.S., explains.
Your missing an important element here. Why would Christian apologists spend time and energy writing a book titled “Demolishing Supposed Bible Contradictions” if such biblical contradictions didn’t exist? One would have to say at the very least they exist on the surface of the text. Now, whether they can be explained away is an entirely different argument. So, why would god’s inspired word be so sloppy that an average reader can pick up these contractions? Why the need for a 2 volume set each with 172 pages? Imagine if I wrote a book titled “The Mating Habits of The North American Unicorn” and the response would be….WHY, unicorns don’t exist!
If Archaeologists can find a city 11,000 years old, why can't they find any evidence of the plagues of Egypt? Surely the Egyptians could write and surely events of such magnitude would have been written down in their own historical records.
Please note, Bible stories have SOME truth to them. However, as most word of mouth depictions, they become distorted and many times blown out of proportion. There was a Moses but his name was not Moses. So the story line is probably over-blown or made up. But still, there were persons who led groups of Jews out of Egypt. The Moses story NEVER was written down for many years (1000 years?). We also love fairyrales!
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36 "There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
@Borthwren Blanston Now did you take any pictures when you met these people? Again, there were people like them but the Bible turns events into stories and puts in names. Did you know that in Judiasm, there were no such names as Mark, Luke, Paul, or even Mary. These names were different in the beginning. So, for example, Mary was actually named Marium! Of course, the Bible hides even racism. Want proof? Who turned Jesus in to the Romans? Judas Iscariot supposingly did! That is a real Jewish name. Funny how they got that one right! Oh, did you read the book of Judas? I did! Did you read the book of Marium? I did. If you said you didn't, you are just another Christian who wasn't allowed to see those books banned under the Roman Christian Council (Nicaea 425 AD).
It’s the same story in Hindu mythology about the birth of Krishna, who was born to a virgin and was God , his parents were of menial means. Sometimes I wonder the names Christ and Krishna sound similar.
Constantine and Pau; created this myth. Taking from Dyonisius, Krishna and Persian Avatar which were worshipped by the Roman Senate at that time and incorporated as Christianity where Jesus was a prophet, teache, healer and a Gnostic.
If Moses is a myth, then who created the law and why was there a need for a Messiah? If no Moses, then no law, and no Jesus reading from the Torah, and no basis for Christianity. Any thoughts?
It could be that during the Babylonian captivity, the Jews could have become familiar with the Sumerian/Mesopotamian Myths generally. Being right on the Med, they would have been in the cultural current of all the empires trading on the sea.
"There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
@@borthwrenblanston6632 You have no idea if in fact Moses existed, or is a dim reflection of many centuries-long collated myths/narratives. You have a conviction-laden opinion, are entitled to it - but not to propound it as established fact, because it is not. Nor is it likely to be - imagine the telephone game going on for 800 years before someone gets it down on paper.
Many of the things you take as common knowledge are unknown to others. Many of the things I take as common knowledge are unknown to you. What we as individuals don't know could fill a universe. Try not to let your assumptions blind you to this.
@@rainbowkrampus Here in UK we call that 'stating the bleedin' obvious '... Got any archeological evidence? Did the very well researched Egyptians write about it?
One detail which blows me away is how sketchy is Biblical history with ‘who was Moses’ as simply one example. When I attended Baylor University and their required Religion class I was taught that many of these early religious key figures may have been prefigured in stories taken from earlier Babylonian, etc., tales and great flood and creation stories. Raised as a Fundamentalist Christian child I was taught that you cannot question the veracity of Biblical truth by giving any credence to these earlier “folk” tales even if these stories seem related.
The only similarity between the story of Moses and the legend of Sargon is that they were both found floating down stream. That's all. Moses' mother placed him in the basket to save his life, while Sargon's mother placed him in the basket because she was a priestess and wasn't supposed to have children, but there was no real threat. Otherwise, both legends are completely different from each other. As a realist you have to ask yourself, how common was it for a mother to send her baby down stream?
The Noah/Gilgamesh parallels are absolutely not the same as the Moses/Sargon parallel as the former could fundamentally be variants of the same individual/myth whereas the latter looks more like elements of one individual/myth lifted and grafted onto another, otherwise unrelated one.
The reason the story has Moses put into a basket, sent down the river and discovered by the Pharaoh's daughter is that it's a retcon that explains how Moses can be a Hebrew man with an Egyptian name. If you were not familiar with the story, but you were familiar with the difference between Hebrews and Egyptians, and then I asked you to conceive of a situation in which a Hebrew man would acquire an Egyptian name, one of your theories would likely be that be was raised by Egyptians. The next obvious question would be, why wasn't he raised by his Hebrew parents? And, voila, there's your basket in the river story.
The consensus is worthless. The only thing that matters is that the content of the moses yarn was popular at the time across a wide area and over several centuries. Tracking where the yarn originated is rather pointless because being a yarn, its origin really doesn't matter, except as a matter of curiosity.
@@pedrosaborido9648 Yes. Also there is a bigger market for people that want to imagine Jesus existed than a market for knowing bible Jesus is a fictional character
"When Moses entered the Cloud and was taken up, he found a mighty angel named Quemouel, surrounded by twelve thousand followers. But when the angel tried to approach Moses, he pronounced the Holy Name in its seventy-two letters, which the Holy One had revealed to him in the burning bush. Thereupon the angel went back twelve thousand leagues. Moses continued his passage in the Cloud, and his eyes glowed like red-hot coals." ZOHAR, PAGE 168-169
Some archaeologists think that Egypt occupied Canaan and Jews were slaves of Egyptians in the log Canaan. During the Passover Seder when the 10 Plagues are chanted we dip our finger into the cup of wine and drop the wine on our plate to decrease the joy of our liberation because Egyptians died to achieve it. There’s a midrash that God told the angels who were celebrating the parting of the Sea of Reeds “ My children have died stop celebrating.” I’m paraphrasing but you get the idea.
@@pedrosaborido9648 I thought it was because of a translation that said that when Moses came down from the mountain after seeing God, he had horns then translators later said his faced shone.
Moses name in Torah is Moshe, spelled Mem Shin Hay. Rameses in Torah is spelled Resh Ayin (Mem Samech Samech)...Their names have completely different hebrew roots. Why is that?
Every time a question of historicity like this gets brought I wonder…now what evidence do we have for Jesus that we don’t have for these other biblical characters…if anyone knows of anyone who does this exercise please point me in that direction.
"There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36 Try to learn.
@@borthwrenblanston6632There are stories all over the world of massive floods, Sumer, Israel, China, Greece. We know that near the end of the ice age, the great herds were dying off. People settled along the coastlines where they could subsist on fish and sea mammals. When the glaciers began to melt, we know that the sea levels rose rapidly. The people living on the coast experienced massive flooding, low lying land disappeared. Why couldn’t these events have remained n human memories and stories?
Jesus never wrote anything. What we know of Jesus was written by anonymous authors long after His death, by men who never met him, never heard him speak and knew no me who had actually seen Him. Even Paul never actually knew Jesus. After his vision on the road to Damascus, he went to Jerusalem to consult with Peter and James. He got into a big fight with them about how the early Jesus movement should proceed. Believing that something in the Hebrew Bible is history is simply stupid.
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Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS): “When Elyon gave the nations as an inheritance, when he separated the sons of man, he set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God (bene elohim). For Yahweh’s portion was his people; Jacob was the lot of his inheritance”.
Masoretic Text (MT): “When Elyon gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all the sons of man, he set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel (bene yisrael). For Yahweh’s portion was his people, Jacob was the lot of his inheritance”.
Septuagint (LXX): “When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the boundaries of the nations according to the number of the angels of God (aggelón theou). And his people Jacob became the portion of the Lord, Israel was the line of his inheritance”.
Samaritan Pentateuch (SP):
"When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. For the LORD's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance, Israel" .
Only we Jews are G-d’s only eternal people ‘ ✡️✡️🇮🇱🇮🇱❤❤
Ask Rabbi Tovia Singer ? He’ll set you straight !!
@@Braglemaster123 THAT IS A LIE!!!! DO NOT BE SO IGNORANT!
I love that like a true *historian,* Bart doesn't *really care if you believe* the *"narrative"* or not, he just tries to get to the *truth and origins* of the stories ect..
That’s theology, as opposed to divinity studies or seminary. Theology assumes there is exaggeration in every tale, unlike the others.
Religion is just folktales on steroids. Unwavering faith would make Grimm’s fairytales every bit as much of a solid cultural foundation as the Bible to a student of Theology.
@@almitrahopkins1873I'd argue that history is even more important than theology. That and linguistics. Reading the history of what was happening politically and then looking at the story's is enlightening. The bible is full of political commentary lol
@@jessicamessica2271 The problem is that evangelical Christians, especially the literalists, take their Bible as history and all other histories as false.
I can pinpoint the rough period where the event mythologized in Exodus would have had to happen, but it requires approaching it from a point of view that the event was legendary, not entirely mythology. The Evangelicals blow a gasket at that notion.
Looking at the history of the period between Amenhotep IV (Anhkenaten) to Paramessu (Ramesses I) all of the major details of the story in Exodus could be derived from recorded history. You have reference to hebirru mercenaries in the Amarna letters, meaning the Hebrew were in Egypt, just not as slaves (as we would understand it). We have the kingdom of Mitanni (Midian) just north of the Egyptian borders at Kadesh in modern-day Syria. We have the restoration of the temples during the reign of Tutanhkamun, Ay and Horemheb, giving us the context for the Golden Calf. We have the founding of a new capitol by Paramessu whose regnal name was Ramesses, so using the name Paramessu would be a denial of his divinity (Paramessu and Pi-Ramesses are spelled the same in Hebrew). Ramesses I and his son Seti I fought several campaigns against rebellious tribes in the Levant.
The Bible alone paints Exodus as an escape from slavery without any corroboration. Once you begin to interpret it with additional details from history and archeology, it looks more like a revolt by the mercenaries levied in Canaan against the levy of workers to build the new capitol of the first king in the 19th dynasty.
You have to dismiss the legendary history in the Bible as being inaccurate and compare it to other histories to see a complete narrative and accurate history.
@@jessicamessica2271The Bible's purpose is to be subversive on some level. It's presenting non-Jews with a specific story in the NT & it has succeeded.
@TruthDissident what story is that. The new testament is surprisingly pro roman when considering the time and ace it was written in.
Even if "Moses" existed, he did not turn the Nile river to blood, he did not turn his staff into a snake, he did not cause plagues on Egypt, and he did not part the Red sea.
Interesting fact: Before the movie staring Charlton Heston, approximately 35% of Christians, when asked, said they believed that Moses was real and that he parted the Red sea. After the movie hit the theaters, a survey was done and that number went up to 75%. Amazing what a great acting job can do for a fictional tale.
So why didnt you mention that Muhammad didnt split the moon?
@@DeadstockDownsouth Why should I?
@@timhallas4275 because u seem to be picking on the group that’s not going to find n kill u😂 smart man
@@DeadstockDownsouth I'm picking on the religion that has most effected my country and my life. At least Muslims don't pretend to be my friend.
@@DeadstockDownsouth just a thought but maybe go to a RUclips video debating the legitimacy of Muhammad’s claims if you want to see those comments? What an idiotic thing to comment under a video titled did mosses exist.
A few weeks ago, I visited the West Bank. Our group went to a Jewish settlement on the West Bank that is considered illegal under international law, because it is on land that belongs to the Palestinians. We listened to one of the settlers tell us that Israel has the right to control all of the land on the West Bank, because God gave it to them (see one of the stories about Moses in Deuteronomy 34:4, for example). The settler said that he believes that the story of the Exodus, in which about 2.5 million people left Egypt for the promised land, is literally true. Never mind the fact that a group of people about 20 times the population of my home town, Rochester MN (the third largest city in MN at 121500 people) wandered across the desert and did not leave the slightest trace of any archeological evidence. This highlights the problem with Biblical literalism. If you believe that the story of Moses and the Exodus is literally true, you can justify stealing land from another group. If you instead believe that the story is a metaphor that highlights the human experience of moving from slavery to freedom (with all of its layers of meaning), you can now reach a completely different conclusion about how to treat your fellow human beings. The important work of Bart Ehrman and others is not just a purely academic matter. It has real consequences for how we treat our fellow human beings. That is why honest Biblical scholarship, that is not prejudiced by any a priori religious bias, is so important.
Thank you🌹
All of this ❤
I wonder why they call it Israel? Could it be because it is Israel? The Israel that God gave to the Jews as an eternal inheritance, that would stretch from the Nile to the Euphrates?
Thinking themselves wise...
All groups have their own myths. The million or so Jews expelled from Arab countries and whose descendants now live in Israel, and the more than a million Christians expelled from various Muslim lands and those various religious minorities still living in Muslim countries that continue to face ongoing discrimination and persecution might question the Islamic myths.
Whatever the claims to the land, I will side with the people-group who doesn’t want to kill me next.
I just can’t help but think the Egyptian monotheistic Aten cult influenced Israelite religion somehow. Moses is an Egyptian name but also Aaron, Miriam and other Levites.
@@pedrosaborido9648 No, doesn't make sense. The Hyksos had been in power and ruled as pharaos until they were expelled, eventually sieged and destroyed in Canaan.
Jericho was already destroyed in the 16th century BCE and never rebuilt, and its last walls had only existed for not more than a few decades. The most plausible origin was therefore Iah-Moses/Aa-Moses a.k.a. Ahmose, who happened to claim Amen "the Father" himself had spoken to him and defeated pharaoh (the ruling Hyksos). Even the name Aa-ron starts with the same syllable and hints to the same time, the end of the 2nd intermediate period.
Yahweh was the Canaanite god of war and thunder.
The Hebrews were Canaanites.
@@pedrosaborido9648 The Hyksos, were expelled from Egypt and pursued by the Egyptian to the banks of the Euphrates in 1450BCE.
The nations of Israel and Judah did not take shape until the 10th century
Egypt controlled Canaan from 1450BCE until they lost there last fortress at Jaffa in 1126BCE
@@pedrosaborido9648 I beg to differ. We know the Hebrews were Canaanites living in the hills of Canaan. We know they formed two separate nations by the 9th century.
This has been confirmed by the Assyrian's and the Moabites who engaged them in battle. We also have the city of Samaria built by King Omri and dated to the 9th century
The Levant was a crossroads that connected a number of ancient cultures. It's not unreasonable that stories known to those other cultures were spread through the area.
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
Geostrategic military economic rampart and naturally that makes sense then and now.
White so called Jews are imported and misled by supremacy religion and escapism to become dupes quislings and labor occupiers to hold stolen territory by their masters, investors bosses and misleaders...a trite common sad story where you find UK US Fr Rome Germany.. Swiss...
Royal Scam & Grand Illusion or Game of Lives
love your response...it touches on various cultural elements during that time....
If there wasn’t a Moses, can I still beat my slaves- as long as they don’t die within 3 days?
The Bible says you can't beat them at all. Same verse.
@@serpentsepia6638That doesn't make any sense. Exodus 21:20-21 reads “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."
In other words, you can beat your slave (with a rod) as long as that act doesn't actually kill them within a couple days. Perhaps because after that point it is hard to tell whether your beating was the cause of their death.
Where does it say you can't beat your slave?
@@mud213 A slave isn't going to recover from a beating in two days. That's the point.
I love Bart's laugh when he is posed a question. Im reading his 'heaven and hell' and its a really good book.
Finished that book last year, it's great. Happy reading!
let me explain simply heaven and hell... hell is the darkness of space without being allowed to par take in the circle of life or live under the light of suns as a soul! God of all himself will remove you if you go against his philosophy of life completely as have some in the past of past planets and civilisations like on mars... Heaven is the complete opposite and is when we advance spiritually from living as a live human being without dying we are accepted by god to become a sun ourself and give life to the planets around thy sun being... we can incarnate on these planets if we choose too help influence its ways of life and teach also... but know this is not heaven... when we become a sun we are allowed to enter heaven regularly like a HUB MEETING SPACE! but that HUB happens to be the world you spiritually advanced on... and all those who spiritually advanced on that planet too will be there in the hub if ever they choose to visit it instead of there own suns planets... I was given the chance to become a sun but I was afraid at first from my lack of experience... I live here now as a man and realise I'm not afraid anymore to become more then just a man... or a soul who spawns as a man on planets... the sun of this realm is the god of this realm... know it is not the GOD OF ALL though... for each sun in space has a GOD OVER IT... being the ORIGINAL FIRST SUN... the first light... that is the SOUL of which MADE FIRST LIFE PSYICALLY NOT JUST DREAMS... and so we call him the GOD OF ALL and we live in his realms learning how we too can manifest OUR OWN DREAMS IN OUR OWN WORLDS... thank you all for listening now you know your goal in life besides growing old... gain more light and become a sun following the GOD OF ALL and practice giving life to other!
We all have a primordial soul which is immortal. When the body dies, this soul reincarnates either here or Hell. Heaven can only be obtained when we are alive....................falundafa
@@jeffforsythe9514 I'd sure love to see the proof for that!
@@jeffforsythe9514"we all have a primordial soul"
What is a primordial soul?
Regarding Egyptian names in a Hebrew story, Egypt occupied Canaan for hundreds of years, It was a vassel kingdom. The cities had Egyptian governors. A lot of them probably had Egyptian names. The Moses story reverses a trope where a person of humble origin is retrojectively given a secret, royal origin (e,g. Sargon, King Arthur). The trope is that a baby of royal heritage is secretly raised by peasants, but the Moses story claims that an Egyptian ruler was really secretly an Israelite.
Alternatively some understand the Levites as being the remnants of mixed race Egyptian officials (Hittite father Egyptian mother, Egyptian father Canaanite mother, kind of couplings) from the period of Egyptian dominance of Canaan. This is how they explain why so many Levite people have Egyptian names, distinct genetics, and no land claims in the Torah. Plus Levi is supposed to mean something like clinging or attached (Genesis says because now Jacob will cling to me that I gave birth) ie people attached to the land but not from it.
@Ken_Scaletta What does ‘retrojectively’ mean? I was unable to find a definition.
@@Cat.Daddy. A correction inserted later to tidy up an anomaly or anachronism
I actually attended one Rabbi Wolpe's events discussing the topic of the historicity of the Exodus. It was fascinating, because on the one hand he says "no, it didn't really happen, at least how it is written" but "nevertheless we all stood there at Sinai." I guess this is a "may not be true mythology but it is OUR mythology" things, but then one has to ask what that means to you.
It means it's total bullshit.
@@tarhunta2111 yupp made by the greeks
The biblical geography has been misinterpreted from day one. The entire theatre of the biblical events is Southern Arabia. most of the places still go by their biblical names and some have witnessed little variation. The biblical few names existing now in and around current Israel came into being as a result of human immigrations and return from the captivity in today's Iraq. The captivity took place from Yemen. Beni Israel as well as like other 80 ( Beni) Tribes.
Moonpearl
Living where they did The Jews of those days always had to define themselves in relation to Egypt whose shadow loomed over them.
The Exodus story was a good way to do that (except when it wasn't).
@@Seekingtruth-mx3ur Maybe geeks. lol
Have any of you heard about Sigmund Freud's book MOSES AND MONOTHEISM? He wasn't a biblical scholar, but he was extremely well-read and he wanted to explore the reason why the Jews consider themselves the "Chosen People," and why they were sure that there was only one "True God," who devoted all of his time to guiding their history, all of which got them into a lot of trouble over the centuries from other peoples whose land they wandered into. Anyway, the book was highly controversial, but Freud had scholarly sources for arguing that "Moses" was an Egyptian priest, who subscribed to the theory of Akhenatan, a pharaoh who established a new cult in the 14th century B.C. arguing there was only one God, a solar God named "Aton." In this act, Pharaoh Akhenatan was able to consolidate power in Egypt by undermining the gods in other cities and the priests who claimed their power through their own brand of gods. Anyway, when Akhenatan died, there was civil war and subsequently the other gods were re-certified. Freud suggested that one particular priest "Moses" remained faithful to the teaching regarding Akhenatan's God - and made his appeal to the Israelite Jewish community living as an underclass in Egypt - convinced them - and then led them out of Egypt. It's a wild card, but Freud published the book in the 1930s when anti-semitism was ratcheting up all over Europe and he took a lot of grief for this book, which he really didn't have to write and publish so late in his own life...
The thing with Freud is...
When he thought he was onto something he really would get lost into it! 😂
Big influencer for Phrma bros selling cocaine for two competitors, ONE US, One European I recall ...
He's productive and imperfect yet indelibly contributory.
Per Prof Israel Finkelstein, archeological evidence shows the Torah could not have been written before the 7th century. There are too many cites and countries mentioned to have been written before that date. i.e the country of Edom did not exist before 725BCE.
And if Edom is named after Esau, wouldn't Eden also be a form of Edom
@@Amanda-cd6dm it's seems Eden and Aden are so similar which is in Iraq.
@@Amanda-cd6dm no
definitely not compiled before the 7th century bce but parts were def written further back
Yes that’s why the Gospel of John quotes from Exodus
As a child, I questioned, among many questions on the fairie tales we, as children,
were commanded to believe under pain of being cast into a pit of fire, WHO it was
that witnessed 'Moses' being placed into a basket and set adrift, followed the basket
carrying 'Moses' all the way to Pharoah's daughter, observed 'Moses' growing up, committing murder,
fleeing, marrying, returning and then spending 40 years to travel 200 miles and lived to write the biography.
Who witnessed Alexander the great conquests dumbass?
It was supernatural man, god did it!!! Ugh…..
Religious fairy tales? Says the atheist fool that believes the human being came from a rock, that morality came from a mud puddle, that life can come from a warm pond. Son, we have billions of mud puddles, rocks & warm ponds. NONE OF THEM has ever produced anything NEW. You're atheist desperation is noted. SORRY KID, but it’s blatant stupidity (atheism) to think that star dust, moist rocks and mud puddles have the INTELLIGENCE, POWER, PURPOSE AND MEANS to create/design LIFE, INTELLIGENCE, LOVE, CONSCIOUSNESS, MORALITY, the human being and ALL the co-existent bodily systems (circulatory, respiratory, reproductive, pulmonic, digestive, skeletal, muscular, nervous, body (skin), etc., etc.) intertwined in co-dependent order in the human body :) Atheism is pure idiocy.
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
Moses and Jesus had the same ghost writer.
This is quite an interesting topic for me at the moment. I'm quite glad to see bart ehrman here covering it.
I listened 3 times. Or tried to. Did he answer the question at hand? What was his answer?
Bart is a bigoted anti-Christian - not very reliable - he often comes across as totally manipulative . while seemingly trying in some mesure to be objective
Dt. Bart Ehrman is so knowledgable and quite entertaining as well, keep up the good work, Derek
misquoting Jesus lead me to leave bible for quran
@@etzelkaplan9677 okay
@@walterhartwellwhite8022 thanks
Being the last of the prophets,Don't the Muslims have proof that Moses existed, or did they just go by the Jews story?
@@dorandacolbert5973-- Quranic history rather.
As a mythologist, I see Moses as a conflated culture hero, like Heracles. The Moses who committed murder and ran off to hide with the Kenites was not the same Moses who confronted Pharaoh, and not the same Moses who was inducted into the Midianite family priesthood by Jethro. I see a process similar to the melding of local Heracles legends into one character.
Similar process for the construction of the Jesus myth as well.
@@bibleburner8426 There are indications there was a collection of aphorisms circulated prior to Paul, who used them as a rough basis for his church. Twenty years later, "Mark" hung a narrative on the new religion. Where that story came from is unclear, though it seems to be a combination of Greek and Egyptian mythology in a Judaean setting.
@@bibleburner8426 Judaism Christianity? A copy? No. The Calendar does not decide truth, and the eternal infinite Christ existed before any cult or man or demon G0D period. Apparently, what you don’t realize is that G0D was the first on the scene and then Satan. Since that moment, Satan has counterfeited G0D, KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING. And that’s why you have cults and cheap COPIES of the Bible exhibiting The Doctrine of Demons (cults such as atheism, evolution, abiogenesis, star formation, big bang). So it doesn’t matter “when” G0D was “counterfeited” as long as you understand G0D was here first and after Lucifer (Satan) was cast out of heaven, he started to counterfeit G0D’S aims from that point onward.
"There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
So like King Arthur, right?
You’re no different than a religious fanatic , just believing what fits your world view
The Mahabharata, a book out of the Vedas, the oldest continuously practiced religion on the planet which birthed Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikh, Janists, Karna a son of one of the Gods was born of a young unmarried woman who put him in a basket and floated him down the river. He was found by a carriage driver, not a princess. He became great with superhuman talents with no training.
Great comment! Thanks for this info
The Mahabharata is not a book out of the Vedas. It is a seperate work that postdates the vedas by multiple centuries.
In Jungian terns you could just say these are the archetypes bubbling up in different cultures. The miraculous birth, the flight from enemies, the test of faith, etc.
@@KishoreG2396 Fitzgerald, James (1985). "India's Fifth Veda: The Mahabharata's Presentation of Itself". Journal of South Asian Literature.
@Cat.Daddy. Just because an author calls something "the fifth Veda" does not make a text part of the Vedic corpus.
The Vedas were composed between 1800 BCE and 1200 BCE and consist of the Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva and the oldest of each book is the Samhitas. The Vedic period ends after 1100 BCE or so.
The Mahabharata is a post-Vedic text that began to be composed around 500 BCE.
I appreciate your approach to supporting your guests. It is wholesome and humble. Thank you for all of the scholars that you have on sir.
THis sounds like a really great course. I'm glad that MVP made all of us aware of it. Yeah, I've wondered a lot about the history of Moses before, so glad a Course is devoted to it by BDE.
History says that Moses received God's message but really Moses as a god himself. People were not ready to understand back then that there are many gods in heaven....................falun dafa
@@jeffforsythe9514 Polytheism was widely accepted in the ancient world -- in Babylon, Assyrian empire, Egypt, Greece, etc. etc.
The life of Moses is like a mosaic art,put the pieces together and tell a story
It's also propaganda
👌🏽
So interesting, I love it when Bart said talking of ancient history, "we just don't know that much." I know it's hard to fathom time, like 10,000 years from now. Heck, they may be someone who claims the United States was just a myth, it never really was a nation. I mean, who's to say this place won't be obliterated in 3,000 years. After another 3,000 years everything destroyed and lost, and another 4,000 years passes and new people start building. Give them 100 years or so to really start populating, opening education, and another 300-500 years the folks around really have come along ways in their 500 year history and start fining ancient artifacts and study those for several generations, and on and on. How do we know anything:) HA!
It amuses me to think that a thousand years from now, scholars will stake their reputations on interpretations of ragged scraps of Golden and Silver Age comic books.
"And what does the consensus say."
How many times in history has the 'consensus' been upended? In reality you shouldn't trust 'consensus' as far as you could kick it.
Well, we rely on empiricism for reasons.
Consensus is valuable and worth pursuing.
It's just also a good idea to keep in mind the reliability of people in a given field.
@@rainbowkrampus Sounds good, but as history shows, 'consensus' has also often been used as a means of deceiving and indocrinating people, e.g, the climate 'crisis'/global warming scam, the virus/vaccine disaster, the evolution hoax, and false reasons to go to war, etc.
When in history have they had access to the technology and resources we have today?
Seems to me it's a lot easier to upend the historical consensus in the past when people were extremely limited when writing history.
@@BasedKungFu With all the resources of today there are still so many false things that are taken as truth, such the ones I mentioned above.
@@henryschmit3340 I don't see any specific examples in this thread.
People may hungry for food but me for books.... i have not finished studies but to much i love to read and hear , histories and religions...
Not many are aware that back in the 1920's scholars, in professional journals, were debating the finding of an ancient inscription at Serabit el Khadim whose name was MS or MS'S, some arguing this was Moses of Sinai fame. See my paper at ACADEMIA on the arguments (of the 1920s-2010).
Do you have a link?
Did you not hear the part where Ehrman says that.Moses was an Egyptian name? So it means nothing unless you can show it was THAT Moses
@@jeffreylehman1159where did Moses lead the Israelites from?
@@sandlotscout6358 Exodus never happened, it’s just a story.
This is not the course video itself, but already there are food for thought from Dr. Erhman. Thank you for this short video
Bart is the man! I'm going to be at this course!
Error-man is not a qualified archaeologist but it has never stopped. He’s actually the dean of (eels) a Bible college who pretends he’s an atheist.
@pineelblends8387Could you please say where exactly Dr. Bart Ehrman is wrong about what he teaches? It cannot be everything he says that’s wrong. Could you provide a couple examples of what he is wrong about and then share why it’s wrong? That would very helpful. Thanks.
Dr. Ehrman is very credible in my opinion. He learned the classical languages of biblical literature and gained the academic credentials of theology. His critical thinking and objectivity are respectable.
And does not know about the sacred tradition of the jews and why Christ names another priest in the story of David and breads
Error-man didn’t receive his degree at an accredited university, he graduated from a Bible college, taught at a Bible college, and is dean of a Bible college, pretends to be an atheist so his books can sell.
@Fides Non Sequitur No, he admits he belief in his quote: "There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
@@borthwrenblanston6632they also believed Adam and Eve were real people. What you mentioned proves absolutely nothing.
We also know a worldwide Flood never happened, but all those "characters" believed in that, too.
What do you think of D.M. Murdocks work before she passed, 'Did Moses exist? The myth of the Israelite Lawgiver'?
I've read it. It's great. Much more decisively written and it pretty much blasts everything out of the water. No he didn't exist.
In the past few months I've read a few semi-scholarly works about Moses, coming from the same group of people. Before they go wack-a-doodle (to use the scientific term) toward the end of their books (and many of them do), they put up a good argument that Moses and his family were in some way closely related to Akhenaten (if not Akhenaten = Moses) and were also exiled from Egypt. One fellow said that Moses' people were incorporated into Israel as the Twelfth Tribe, and their backstory adjusted to fit Israel more comfortably. This puts Akhenaten, the first monotheist, as having had a heavy hand in influencing the Israeli pov. I like to think the Ten Plagues were memories of the eruption of Thera, and I've also seen studies where high prevailing winds swept most of the water out of some largish lake between Egypt and Israel, which has been witnessed many times in historical times, and might have been so remarkable so as to have been incorporated into this story.
I've heard that Akhenaten idea as well.
Perhaps that might explain why the Torah doesn't mention a specific Pharoah.
@herbalgerbil Well, that or the story didn't actually happen, so of course they aren't going to mention an actual Pharaoh, lol. Then you could discredit the story.
The smoking gun for me is that no other culture is ever heard of moses, Even after allegedly leading two million people out of egypt to conquer the Levant.
Most respected Dr Ehrman, we cannot thank you for what you have done. You are spreading and sharing your knowledge and information which will indeed change the views of generations. Like myself many Muslims are waiting when you will read and search Quran and then talk about it. 🌻 its always good to hear you 🌻
Do not worship humans,him accepting or denying Islam has ZERO meaning.Allah does not use celebrities to promote Islam.
@@keksi6844 which part of Asif’s comment is worshiping a human? Are compliments or thanks prohibited?
Oh no, you don’t want him to apply the same techniques to the Quran he applies to the Bible, he’ll demolish it!
@@joygibbons5482 Dear o dear, for more than 1400-years all the aniti-Quran-Muslim champions have lost their battles, we know no one can win against the greatest of All Allah tabarak wa ta'ala. This book is not found in mud, water or in caves it has been revealed by God to his Messenger, like other scriptures before it. Joy, did you ever read Quran ? if not you cannot get it. Thanks for your comments. Rgds
@@joygibbons5482 BTW, did you read the Bible, if yes which version ? KJV or NIV ?
@MythVision Podcast - A interview with Bart and Francesca Stavrakopoulou would be fun.
I tell you what,I wouldn't mind interviewing Francesca.
Maybe Moses and the Exodus come from various tales involving various people. Considering the closeness, wars and interactions between Egypt and Palestine, I'd assume there was multiple immigration and emigration. The Exodus story had a level of violence and we know wars were fought up and down those lands.
Further, I cannot think that the biblical plagues were anything other than what happened when Santorini blew up, but scholars keep insisting the Exodus happened a few hundred years later. Whatever happened when Santorini exploded. many people in the area would have had experiences of biblical proportions.
@kristina zboodramPhilistines came before Israelites lmao, read the Bible!
We know Israelites were there because of the Bible, Philistines are one of Canaanites tribes, they are native of the land
didn't Israelites fought Philistines to get that land to begin with, I don't think ever happened Philistines and Israelites are the same group of people in the beginning but after 2000 years conflict happened different minds etc.
Canaanites=Arabs, Phoenicians, Assyrians, Israelites etc basically natives of middle east.
In reality Israelites are part of Canaanites as well, Israelites are one of Canaanites tribes.
@@re6235 right lol even according to their own version of the story the philistines were there first
Simcha Jacobvici has done a whole video on Moses moving events to the destruction of Santorini. Unlike Error-man, he actually went to sites that support. Unlike Error-man, Simcha does not claim to be a biblical scholar. Simcha is an investigative journalist unlike Error-man who is a Bible College hack, who makes up theories and pretends to be an expert.
Jesus is real: "There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
Try to learn.
His comment about biblical scholars with faith commitments is surprising. I just don’t understand how any biblical scholar could stay religious after becoming so familiar with the book that it’s abundantly clear that humans wrote it with human agendas in mind, and then a plethora of editors chimed in their their own agendas over thousands of years. That’s the crack that broke my faith in the end.
There was a ancient Chinese philosopher and prophet like Moses, he was called Mozi. He delivered the same message from God to the people.
Only he lived long after Moses in c. 470 - c. 391 BCE
I love the way, when faced with biblical contradictions...internal or external...Christians invent explanations that aren't supported by observable evidence, historical record, or the _Bible._
I love it even more when the explanations they invent to _rationalize_ contradictions in _one_ part of the Bible end up _creating more_ contradictions to _other_ parts of the Bible.
As for Moses/Sargon, Noah/Gilgamesh, etc. - It's reasonable to conclude that oral tradition...as oral tradition does...kept old stories alive, while updating and modifying them over time.
Finaly Note: Rather than, "Take it with a grain of salt," I would love to hear Dr. Ehrman...or an interviewer...present the pun, "Take it with a _pillar_ of salt."
Cyrus Gordon wrote the book THE COMMON BACKGROUND OF GREEK AND HEBREW CIVILIZATIONS in 1965
in which he uncovers numerous linguist and mythic links between the two.
This site is so good....intellectual and educational....people with real knowledge and honest enough to admit even they don't know enough to give cast iron opinions...
The fact that Moses was named Moses, an Egyptian name, is unremarkable. It is the type of thing that an author of fiction must do at the bare minimum. He was named by an Egyptian pharaoh, according to the story, and had to blend in as an Egyptian throughout his early life. His name, therefore, doesn't make the story more historically credible.
Moses still exists. That is why Scripture reminds us that "We are compassed about by so great a cloud of witnesses." (Hebrews 12:1) Abraham exists too, and Jesus said that Abraham rejoiced to see His day. The question is; where will you exist when you're done here. Be careful not to blaspheme or you will be leaving us prematurely.
That's interesting cause there is a Pharaoh called Amon-sé that sounds like Moses , and is said that this Pharaoh opened the Nilo River to find his fiance's ring. Can you see the similarities?
No Moses means child so Ramses is Ra + Moses, child or son of Ra so it is kind of shocking to have Moses without a name of a god attached.
It was written in Alexandria, under Greek rule, having benefitted from Greek intellectual culture, in the shadow of Herodotus and Thucydides et al, and with a desire to produce a similar monument to themselves, probably occurring with the "translation" of the Septuagint. It demonstrates for a Greek readership an allegedly ancient Jewish relationship with the Egyptians (whom the Greeks revered) and, moreover, it serves as an example of how gentile rulers who treat the Jews poorly will face the murderous wrath of YHWH. It's not History. It's ethno-religious propaganda within a very specific historical context and power dynamic, with very particular aims.
this is the closest anyone on the thread has come.
The cut of your jib... I like it. Carry on sir.
Very well said. Bart falls short many times because he fails to see the wider game being played and what the Torah/Bible actually was.
Great question Derek. I noticed a big commonalities between Greek and Hebrew understanding. For example the Greek concept of miasma and blood guilt in the Hebrew Bible.
Because the Greeks created the hebrews
And the Egyptians created the Greeks.
When Christian prayer ends with amen, they are referencing amen-ra
On this topic, I highly recommend reading Berossus and Genesis, Manetho and Exodus, by Russell Gmirkin.
There is no archeological evidence for the Pentachuch before it appears translated into Greek (the Septuigent or LXX) around 270 BC.
Gmirkin shows that the Pentachuch derived from Greek sources in the library of Alexandria and was most likely composed between 273 and 273 BC.
Judaism Christianity? A copy? No. The Calendar does not decide truth, and the eternal infinite Christ existed before any cult or man or demon G0D period. Apparently, what you don’t realize is that G0D was the first on the scene and then Satan. Since that moment, Satan has counterfeited G0D, KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING. And that’s why you have cults and cheap COPIES of the Bible exhibiting The Doctrine of Demons (cults such as atheism, evolution, abiogenesis, star formation, big bang). So it doesn’t matter “when” G0D was “counterfeited” as long as you understand G0D was here first and after Lucifer (Satan) was cast out of heaven, he started to counterfeit G0D’S aims from that point onward.
"There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
Yes, we was a center in the NBA in the late 70's and 80's and is a Hall of Fame player
And 90's
I'd suggest InspiringPhilosophys video on the Exodus and Moses. Very interesting with some good historical backing.
Two thousand years from now people would make Dan Brown's da vinci code novel part of their bible and call it Da Vinci (naturally)
you have serious misconception about how we decide what goes in the Bible and not , unlike what you believe , it's not plucked from thin air and there are various ways we can tell the fakes from the authentic ruclips.net/video/KteyU2x-qPU/видео.html and then there are the other hidden words within words
ruclips.net/video/RmnUkNT55gU/видео.html
Na Buddy da Vinci code doesn’t have code of morality and future event prophecies so stop talking stupidity just because you want to justify your lifestyle
I have for some time now changed my way of responding to these questions of biblical characters existing.
I used to just answer NO to most of the ones suggested when asked like this....did Moses exist...
But I find that biblical believers are stubborn and hard headed about this type of topics and shut down and are not very responsive or open minded to continue discussing when they are just told NO. And then go on to say why.. They shut down and get defensive..
So I changed my tactics about a year or two ago. I no longer just say no..
I tell them that the biblical character narrative as portrayed in the bible ... That character never existed.
This leaves them wiggle room to have curiosity as to what I mean and what I am talking about.
I know there was no biblical character of a Moses...this character never existed.. not to any portion of the story narrative.
Now grant it some version of some character or person may have existed at some point that some story narrative was taken from and expanded upon... I don't think we can prove or disprove that..
But I will challenge it when biblical apologists and believers want to assert specific and exact biblical characters that existed when we know for certain they did not.
The reason why believers are stubborn and closed-minded is because the alternative to non-belief is nihilism.
If all these religious stuffs are just fictional make-believe fantasies, then that means human beings are nothing but just carbon-based organisms that after death, people will simply not exist anymore. Void for eternity of non-existence.
It's a very depressing reality to live and think about it. You would rather stick with religion and make yourself happy.
‘We know for certain’ …you sound ridiculous as much as the fanatics you claim superiority to.
Did Luke Skywalker exist?
Did Fred Flintstone exist?
Did Cap'n Crunch exist?
Your sarcastic approach tells me no, which breaks my heart. Fred isn't real?!
If Fred Flintstone didn't really exist, how was it possible then that Barney Rubble was his reliable eyewitness?
And The Lord said unto Luke; Obi-wan never told you what happened to your father….
@@moonshoes11 I am thy father!
Ok.. point taken.. but how about Mickey Mouse? Surely he does exist right? ... Right?
I've read almoat all of Bart's books on Christianity. Extremely enlightening and scholarly. The story of Moses being floated down the Nile to be adopted by a princess has been told before in Sargon of Akkad. So like the story of the flood, the story of Moses has roots in nearby civilizations.
The ancient Egyptians were copious writers. They documented everything. The amount of grain harvested year to year, the amount of wheat harvested, the amount of beer made, we have even found graffiti on the walls of the pyramids. But not one mention of the Hebrew slaves. Not one word about the 10 plagues. Especially thr death of thr first male born. That meant every family had lost a father, a son, a brother, an uncle all in one night yet not one person wrote down "WTF! Someone died in every family last night! It was all first born males!" Not one person wrote about the hundreds of thousands of Hebrews who left Egypt. Hundreds of thousands of people more than thr entire population of thr Levant, yet not one shred of archeological evidence of where they lived. It takes a huge amount of food and resources to feed so many people jd they leave a lot of trash. Not one piece of solid evidence. The Pharoah's entire army drowned in the Red Sea, or thr Sea of Reeds, so every family lost a family member in the army. Not one mention of it.
I just wanted to say thank you for this channel. This work is so important. Thank you thank you thank you
The existence of soda water proves that Moses did exist:"And Moses hitta the rock,and SO DA water came forth"
Tuthmosis was an Egyptian prince around the time the Volcano that destroyed Crete exploded. However, there is no way the exodus happened.
@@pedrosaborido9648 I have come across this. It makes sense to me. The exodus was greatly exaggerated. It was a small group of people that left.
@@pedrosaborido9648 makes perfect sense!
@@pedrosaborido9648 We know how Israel and Judah were born. After the Bronze Age collapse and the withdrawal of Egypt from Canaan between 1150 and 1126BCE the Hebrew tribes that were living in the highlands migrated to the plains.
@@pedrosaborido9648 Thutmose (also rendered Thutmoses, Thutmosis, Tuthmose, Tutmosis, Thothmes, Tuthmosis, Djhutmose, etc.) is an Anglicization of the Ancient Egyptian personal name dhwty-ms, usually translated as "Born of the god Thoth".
(Thank you, Wikipedia.)
Ancient Egyptian script has no vowels. Consequently we don't actually KNOW what vowel sounds they used. Something can be inferred from related languages. But not a lot.
In the case of Thutmes, the important or specific part of that name is Thoth. The "mes" simply indicates "born of" and could be appended to many other names. So "Moses" is kind of a bizarre name. It's like saying "son of" without giving the name of the parent. Maybe that was the idea. Maybe Jews of that time would have understood that and seen it as pointing toward the mystery of his birth. "Moses" ... "born of" ... whom?
@@fepeerreview3150 it's absolute fantasy and the writers of the books deliberately just called him moses precisely because he could not be found in the recorded history if he was properly named. So keep it nice and vague like all novelists do and make out that this half a title is actually a name.
Biggest question is - Are you doing post-production work on your audio? The sound is great on my pair of JBL headphones. The voice is deep, yet clear and very majestic sound effects... like God talking. What microphone are you using?
Seem like b.ehrman still did not gave a proper answer to me..
He looks very confused & unsure whether moses did lived or really existed..
Moses IS the historic figure pharoah Akhenaten.
Red haired blue eyed Rh-
Like the same ones in burial mounds from china, Americas Europe, everywhere.
We landed on the shores and taught the entire world after the deluge.
Fun thing, when Bart argues about New Testament details, he regularly uses the logical construct: this episode (e.g. John the Baptist baptizing Jesus) is likely to be true, because if it was invented by early Christians, they would have told it otherwise, because being baptized by someone else, impies being in a subordinate position to the baptizer, therefore they must have inherited this story (and that's why they had probably added the detail of God acknowledging Jesus after the event: to reinforce his being the hihger level being). Now the same logical construct is used quite differently when he suggest, it must have been a clever Israelite giving the Egyptian name, Moses to the protagonist of his story.
Oops.
You’re not even trying to pay attention to what he’s saying
@@HkFinn83 I'm afraid this is not even an argument.
I am reluctant to say this, but amongst today's young people, without a specifically religious training and background, whether Moses existed or not is a matter of utter indifference to them.
They were goat herders. Understand that. Telling stories was a way of life.
But did they tell those stories for kids to sleep or why did they find out fake storys?
Opinion of majority Christian scholars is that the oldest or earliest manuscripts are more reliable than the newest and later one but I think that the message and credibility matters most, everyone knows Paul's letters is earlier than Synoptic Gospels but the Doctrine of Paul is his own make on the other hand if we found 2nd century manuscript transmitted through oral tradition or scattered manuscript among true followers of Jesus and his desciples and then written down in a single well attested document in 2nd century so which one we have to trust upon.
bart ' there are 50k biblical manuscripts. no two alike ' pastor Bosworth smith ' the quran is the only scripture preserved in its original language ;
Where and when did the belief in Mosiac authorship originate? I don't believe this comes from the text itself, does it?
No it seems around the Macaabees era
It’s within the text itself. Deuteronomy 31:9 and 31:24
@@zekdom we don't believe that and the evidence isn't strong for it's support.
@@zekdom A quick read of Deut 31 indicates that Moses "wrote down" some portion(s) of the law. There is no indication that he authored the whole of the pentateuch.
I recommend Prof. Ehrman's The Triumph of Christianity. It helped me understand how Christianity spread during the first few centuries.
I was watching a video on the Sumerians… I was surprised to learn that the the first writing (cuneiform) only emerged around 4000 BCE … which seems to be several thousands of years after the proposed earliest events of the Bible. So, obviously, those early events could not have been written down… Just a bit of context that never previously occurred to me
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
Judaism Christianity? A copy? No. The Calendar does not decide truth, and the eternal infinite Christ existed before any cult or man or demon G0D period. Apparently, what you don’t realize is that G0D was the first on the scene and then Satan. Since that moment, Satan has counterfeited G0D, KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING. And that’s why you have cults and cheap COPIES of the Bible exhibiting The Doctrine of Demons (cults such as atheism, evolution, abiogenesis, star formation, big bang). So it doesn’t matter “when” G0D was “counterfeited” as long as you understand G0D was here first and after Lucifer (Satan) was cast out of heaven, he started to counterfeit G0D’S aims from that point onward.
"There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
@@borthwrenblanston6632 so where is the source?
@@borthwrenblanston6632Delusional
Moses lived if he did, 1000 yrs before Jesus. Buddha 500 yrs.
If we assume that the first two books of the Torah were a rip of earlier literature done in the 3rd Century BC, based largely on Berossus for Genesis and Manetho for Exodus, then the clear answer is YES. Manetho says he was an Osirian priest who took a different name when he led people out of Avaris for Jerusalem. Makes fascinating reading. Especially the part about the Hebrews having been 'slaves' in Egypt for four centuries ... when the shepherd kings had ruled Egypt in the 15th to sometime in the 18th dynasties.
Every character in the Bible is a fictional character from the talking snake to the talking donkey even the characters that were based on real historic people are fictional. Sort of like when you see the president of the US portrayed in a movie. The author wrote that dialog for the character to help tell a story.
Except you can’t back that claim up😂
No. The Calendar does not decide truth, and the eternal infinite Christ existed before any cult or man or demon G0D period. Apparently, what you don’t realize is that G0D was the first on the scene and then Satan. Since that moment, Satan has counterfeited G0D, KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING. And that’s why you have cults and cheap COPIES of the Bible exhibiting The Doctrine of Demons (cults such as atheism, evolution, abiogenesis, star formation, big bang). So it doesn’t matter “when” G0D was “counterfeited” as long as you understand G0D was here first and after Lucifer (Satan) was cast out of heaven, he started to counterfeit G0D’S aims from that point onward.
"There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
@@osgrace3341 😂😂😂😂
@@osgrace3341the Bible is 100% plagerized and the story of Moses is actually the story of Gilgamesh 🗣️🦾
Yep. I'd like to see anyone try to prove it either way. A book written by Man j8st tells it was written by man. Until God speaks to me directly and proves these "fictional tales" I will always ask for proof.
In this age of "influencers" competing to see who can be more confident and forceful, Bart's humble, friendly tone is refreshing.
Check out Ahmose a.k.a. Jah- Moses. He had actually defeated a pharaoh (the last Hyksos), freed his people and led them from the desert into a promised land (the reunited New Kingdom), restored and reformed their religion, brought a new law, claimed Amen "the Father" himself had spoken to him and punished his enemies, made Amen the new most high god of the egyptian state religion, no other gods to be worshipped before him. The last walls of the historical Jericho were destroyed not long before Ahmose sieged and eventually destroyed the last Hyksos in Canaan.
Judaism Christianity? A copy? No. The Calendar does not decide truth, and the eternal infinite Christ existed before any cult or man or demon G0D period. Apparently, what you don’t realize is that G0D was the first on the scene and then Satan. Since that moment, Satan has counterfeited G0D, KNOWING WHAT WAS COMING. And that’s why you have cults and cheap COPIES of the Bible exhibiting The Doctrine of Demons (cults such as atheism, evolution, abiogenesis, star formation, big bang). So it doesn’t matter “when” G0D was “counterfeited” as long as you understand G0D was here first and after Lucifer (Satan) was cast out of heaven, he started to counterfeit G0D’S aims from that point onward.
Moses goes up Mt. Sinai to get the Tablets. it is green and lush there unlike the desert. he asks God if he could build a hospital. (first Mt. Sinai) God replies; take two Tablets and call me in the morning.
Maybe I've got this wrong, I'm going from memory (which isn't reliable as Dr. Ehrman has written about), but I remember reading about a lot about the origins of cultures and religions and that with regard to the origins of Judaism, pre-Babylonian exile, the culture you might call the Israelites were polytheists. They emerged in Canaan and Yahweh, far from being the one true god, was just one in a pantheon of gods that included the likes of Asherah, Ba'al and El, the latter of whom was the Zeus equivalent.
The different city states and kingdoms in Canaan would have their own patron god and Yahweh was the patron of the kingdom of Israel but that didn't mean the other gods didn't exist or weren't to be worshipped. Athena is the patron god of Athens but the Athenians didn't outright ignore the other gods. But as time went on, Yahweh became more and more important.
One of the theories is that the Babylonian exile really brought home the idea of holding on to their own culture and a concerted effort was made to drive home the idea that for the exiles, Yahweh was the only god they should worship and eventually, the only god that exists. Yahweh took on the properties of the other gods, particularly El (from which we derive Elohim - my god) and it's during this time that Genesis and particularly Exodus were put together as foundational myths for what became Judaism and post-exile the monotheistic view really took hold. It wasn't a complete shift though.
The goddess Asherah, who in the old Canaanite pantheon had often been seen as the consort to El (and Ba'al in some stories i believe) became the consort to Yahweh and for a long time she was worshipped and revered, particularly in the home among women, even though it was frowned upon. I believe there's even evidence of little statues to Asherah being found in homes that date to within a century or two prior to the birth of Jesus. So monotheism took quite a while to fully take hold.
How does this relate to the story of Moses? Well, the story may have existed pre-exile but it took a long time for it to truly become the basis of what we now call Judaism. Writing the story down might have actually served as a kind of marketing campaign by the priests of Yahweh to try to get people to stop worshipping the other gods.
What's really interesting though is that Yahweh himself doesn't appear to be an original Canaanite god. While there is no evidence whatsoever that the Hebrews were ever slaves in Egypt (in fact Egyptian Pharaohs actually employed Egyptian citizens for their great works and paid them), Yahweh himself might have originated from Egypt or the surrounding area.
Just 1 argument with your statement. Elohim is a plural so how can it mean My God. It simply means gods
@@dreamscapesflstudiomobile So that's kinda complicated. You're right, it means "gods" but in the Biblical context, Elohim is used in the Jewish Bible as a singular when referring to God.
It doesn't mean "my god," you're right about that. I don't know why I made that mistake. Maybe it was the subtitles in Passion Of The Christ or something lol
In general terms, elohim is a word used to refer to the gods but is used specifically in the Bible to refer to the Jewish god.
In reference to Bart Ehrman’s assertion on there being a contradiction in the biblical text in regards to the livestock all being killed in one verse but later there are livestock present when it begins to hail, here are a few possible solutions that may clear up the confusion:
If one or more of these solutions is correct then the alleged contradiction is eliminated.
First, Exodus 9:3 states, “Behold, the hand of the Lord will be on your cattle in the field, on the horses, on the donkeys, on the camels, on the oxen, and on the sheep-a very severe pestilence.” Surprisingly, this verse does not mention one of the most important domestic animals at that time-the goat.1 Therefore, it is possible that all of the livestock except goats were killed in the first plague on the livestock (fifth plague overall), and in the second instance it was goats that were affected by the plague of hail.
Second, Exodus 9:19-20 mentions that those who “feared the word of the Lord among the servants of Pharaoh” were told to get their livestock out of the fields. Some scholars mention that these Egyptians may have been warned about the previous plague of pestilence (although it was not recorded), so they still had all of their livestock left. In this scenario, God warned them to put all of their livestock in barns so they wouldn’t be killed by hail.
The third possibility is similar to the previous explanation except that the survival of their livestock hinges on the phrase “servants of Pharaoh.” Perhaps this means they were not actually Egyptians, but other vassal subjects who were warned of the plagues so that their animals could be spared. So in Exodus 9:6, where it says that all the livestock of Egypt died, this view suggests that the animals belonging to these foreign vassals were spared if they obeyed God and not Pharaoh.
Fourth, the Bible does not reveal how much time passed between the fifth plague and the seventh plague. Following the fifth plague, which wiped out the livestock of Egypt, the Egyptians may have taken some of the livestock belonging to Israel. Another possibility is that they bought (or took) livestock from surrounding areas (Libya, Ethiopia, Canaan, etc). The first option would require very little time to complete while the second would probably require at least a few weeks. But since the Bible does not specify how much time passed, either is possible.
The fifth, and perhaps simplest solution, would be to acknowledge the fact that “all” does not always mean exclusively “all.”2 We must use the context to determine its meaning. In the case of Exodus 9:6, it might be best translated that “all manner of livestock of the Egyptians died.” In other words, the plague included all kinds of animals, as clarified in the third verse: “on the horses, on the donkeys, on the camels, on the oxen, and on the sheep-a very severe pestilence.” This is the approach taken in Coverdale’s translation, and the New English Translation includes a footnote with a similar explanation.
Conclusion
All five possibilities have some merit. Perhaps the truth consists of a combination of these views, or there may be another solution not addressed here. In any event, there is no contradiction. God demonstrated He was more powerful than the gods of Egypt, and He showed His wrath to the Egyptians and His mercy toward the Hebrews (and perhaps some other subjugated peoples).
Source: Livestock or “Deadstock”
Did the fifth plague kill all of the Egyptian livestock?
by Troy Lacey on September 20, 2011
Featured in Demolishing Supposed Bible Contradictions: Volume 2
Did the fifth plague kill all of the Egyptian livestock? Troy Lacey, AiG-U.S., explains.
Your missing an important element here. Why would Christian apologists spend time and energy writing a book titled “Demolishing Supposed Bible Contradictions” if such biblical contradictions didn’t exist? One would have to say at the very least they exist on the surface of the text. Now, whether they can be explained away is an entirely different argument. So, why would god’s inspired word be so sloppy that an average reader can pick up these contractions? Why the need for a 2 volume set each with 172 pages?
Imagine if I wrote a book titled “The Mating Habits of The North American Unicorn” and the response would be….WHY, unicorns don’t exist!
If Archaeologists can find a city 11,000 years old, why can't they find any evidence of the plagues of Egypt? Surely the Egyptians could write and surely events of such magnitude would have been written down in their own historical records.
Nice sneaking Dennis in, who bart refuses to acknowledge.
Why would there be a Moses if there was no Exodus? And there is no evidence of an Exodus....
Please note, Bible stories have SOME truth to them. However, as most word of mouth depictions, they become distorted and many times blown out of proportion. There was a Moses but his name was not Moses. So the story line is probably over-blown or made up. But still, there were persons who led groups of Jews out of Egypt. The Moses story NEVER was written down for many years (1000 years?).
We also love fairyrales!
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
"There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
@Borthwren Blanston Now did you take any pictures when you met these people? Again, there were people like them but the Bible turns events into stories and puts in names. Did you know that in Judiasm, there were no such names as Mark, Luke, Paul, or even Mary. These names were different in the beginning. So, for example, Mary was actually named Marium! Of course, the Bible hides even racism. Want proof? Who turned Jesus in to the Romans? Judas Iscariot supposingly did! That is a real Jewish name. Funny how they got that one right! Oh, did you read the book of Judas? I did! Did you read the book of Marium? I did. If you said you didn't, you are just another Christian who wasn't allowed to see those books banned under the Roman Christian Council (Nicaea 425 AD).
It’s the same story in Hindu mythology about the birth of Krishna, who was born to a virgin and was God , his parents were of menial means. Sometimes I wonder the names Christ and Krishna sound similar.
Constantine and Pau; created this myth. Taking from Dyonisius, Krishna and Persian Avatar which were worshipped by the Roman Senate at that time and incorporated as Christianity where Jesus was a prophet, teache, healer and a Gnostic.
He should write a book on this
If Moses is a myth, then who created the law and why was there a need for a Messiah? If no Moses, then no law, and no Jesus reading from the Torah, and no basis for Christianity. Any thoughts?
It could be that during the Babylonian captivity, the Jews could have become familiar with the Sumerian/Mesopotamian Myths generally. Being right on the Med, they would have been in the cultural current of all the empires trading on the sea.
"There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
@@borthwrenblanston6632 You have no idea if in fact Moses existed, or is a dim reflection of many centuries-long collated myths/narratives. You have a conviction-laden opinion, are entitled to it - but not to propound it as established fact, because it is not. Nor is it likely to be - imagine the telephone game going on for 800 years before someone gets it down on paper.
Sargon is mentioned in the bible. Isaiah 20:1
Silly question, thought that this is well known by now...
Many of the things you take as common knowledge are unknown to others.
Many of the things I take as common knowledge are unknown to you.
What we as individuals don't know could fill a universe.
Try not to let your assumptions blind you to this.
@@rainbowkrampus Here in UK we call that 'stating the bleedin' obvious '...
Got any archeological evidence? Did the very well researched Egyptians write about it?
@@jonathonjubb6626 At what point did it appear to you that I was attempting to defend the existence of Moses?
One detail which blows me away is how sketchy is Biblical history with ‘who was Moses’ as simply one example. When I attended Baylor University and their required Religion class I was taught that many of these early religious key figures may have been prefigured in stories taken from earlier Babylonian, etc., tales and great flood and creation stories. Raised as a Fundamentalist Christian child I was taught that you cannot question the veracity of Biblical truth by giving any credence to these earlier “folk” tales even if these stories seem related.
Same teaching in Islam about Judaic and Christian sources.
Yes Moses was real and mentioned in Egyptian hieroglyphics.
Where?
@@czarcastic1458 in Egypt.
@@gizmoapangalook121 Where in Egypt? Show me your proof . No where is Moses mentioned so show me your proof.
This guy is a joker
He’s mad your not buying the standard “fairytale”.
The only similarity between the story of Moses and the legend of Sargon is that they were both found floating down stream. That's all. Moses' mother placed him in the basket to save his life, while Sargon's mother placed him in the basket because she was a priestess and wasn't supposed to have children, but there was no real threat. Otherwise, both legends are completely different from each other. As a realist you have to ask yourself, how common was it for a mother to send her baby down stream?
And Santa is real too!
Santa has nothing to do with moses
@@342crazy666 The long beard!
Throw Socrates in there
The Noah/Gilgamesh parallels are absolutely not the same as the Moses/Sargon parallel as the former could fundamentally be variants of the same individual/myth whereas the latter looks more like elements of one individual/myth lifted and grafted onto another, otherwise unrelated one.
I’ve been curious about this!
According to the text Moses was born in Egypt, why did his parents not give him a name before setting him adrift?
Love the laugh Bart. Great opener there.
The reason the story has Moses put into a basket, sent down the river and discovered by the Pharaoh's daughter is that it's a retcon that explains how Moses can be a Hebrew man with an Egyptian name. If you were not familiar with the story, but you were familiar with the difference between Hebrews and Egyptians, and then I asked you to conceive of a situation in which a Hebrew man would acquire an Egyptian name, one of your theories would likely be that be was raised by Egyptians. The next obvious question would be, why wasn't he raised by his Hebrew parents? And, voila, there's your basket in the river story.
You and Gnostic rock
The consensus is worthless. The only thing that matters is that the content of the moses yarn was popular at the time across a wide area and over several centuries. Tracking where the yarn originated is rather pointless because being a yarn, its origin really doesn't matter, except as a matter of curiosity.
The cognitive dissonance of Bart saying all this about Moses and then not applying it to Jesus is astonishing.
@@pedrosaborido9648 Yes. Also there is a bigger market for people that want to imagine Jesus existed than a market for knowing bible Jesus is a fictional character
What a genius our Bart; he found what historians and archaeologists were searching for, for hundreds of years.
No, he's used what historians and archaeologists have found over hundreds of years and he's correct like the archeology that supports him.
"When Moses entered the Cloud and was taken up, he found a mighty angel named Quemouel, surrounded by twelve thousand followers. But when the angel tried to approach Moses, he pronounced the Holy Name in its seventy-two letters, which the Holy One had revealed to him in the burning bush.
Thereupon the angel went back twelve thousand leagues. Moses continued his passage in the Cloud, and his eyes glowed like red-hot coals."
ZOHAR, PAGE 168-169
leviathan?
also where tf did you get the zohar in english
@@prophetoffire6976
That's Moses seeing Samael
Bruh pass that burning bush.
Yet another story that never really happened in reality dude you are not helping but adding to the problem at hand
Some archaeologists think that Egypt occupied Canaan and Jews were slaves of Egyptians in the log Canaan. During the Passover Seder when the 10 Plagues are chanted we dip our finger into the cup of wine and drop the wine on our plate to decrease the joy of our liberation because Egyptians died to achieve it. There’s a midrash that God told the angels who were celebrating the parting of the Sea of Reeds “ My children have died stop celebrating.” I’m paraphrasing but you get the idea.
Moses had horns?
@@pedrosaborido9648 I thought it was because of a translation that said that when Moses came down from the mountain after seeing God, he had horns then translators later said his faced shone.
Francesca Stavrakopoulou covered this in her book God: An Anatomy.
Maybe a reference to Astrology the Age of Aries.
Moses was venom snake..
Moses name in Torah is Moshe, spelled Mem Shin Hay. Rameses in Torah is spelled Resh Ayin (Mem Samech Samech)...Their names have completely different hebrew roots. Why is that?
because of who was writing the story my friend.
Very good. Now let us know whether Niel Armstrong really land on the moon. Also did Osama Bi Laden really exist.
Ahhhhh he talk bad about your invisible friends. 😂
Every time a question of historicity like this gets brought I wonder…now what evidence do we have for Jesus that we don’t have for these other biblical characters…if anyone knows of anyone who does this exercise please point me in that direction.
I'd like to know too.
There isn't any evidence for the existence of bible Jesus
here's another one, what evidence do you have of Loki?
@@TheInterestedObserver for Loki there is none
New York is a real city. I have seen it with my own eyes. So I am pretty sure Spiderman is real.
I was expecting the answer: "Of course not, there are multiple attestations that he didn't."
The King of Egypt writes:
"Moses definitely did not exist, and anyone who says he did will incur my displeasure."
"There is no scholar in any college or university in the western world who teaches classics, ancient history, new testament, early Christianity, any related field who doubts that Jesus existed.” - Bart Ehrman, New Testament ATHEIST scholar - University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
MOSES did in fact exist. I know you all are desperate to hold that Moses did not exist, but Jesus, Matthew, Mark, Dr. Luke & John all said Moses did exist concerning the “Mount of Transfiguration where Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus in the New Testament: Mark 9:2-8, Matthew 17:1-27, Luke 9:28-36
Try to learn.
@@borthwrenblanston6632 Not from you, for sure.
@@borthwrenblanston6632There are stories all over the world of massive floods, Sumer, Israel, China, Greece. We know that near the end of the ice age, the great herds were dying off. People settled along the coastlines where they could subsist on fish and sea mammals. When the glaciers began to melt, we know that the sea levels rose rapidly. The people living on the coast experienced massive flooding, low lying land disappeared. Why couldn’t these events have remained n human memories and stories?
Jesus never wrote anything. What we know of Jesus was written by anonymous authors long after His death, by men who never met him, never heard him speak and knew no me who had actually seen Him. Even Paul never actually knew Jesus. After his vision on the road to Damascus, he went to Jerusalem to consult with Peter and James. He got into a big fight with them about how the early Jesus movement should proceed. Believing that something in the Hebrew Bible is history is simply stupid.