I have listened to Kinnaman (live) previously, read one or more of his books, and read some of his research previously (often centering on problems in the church and warnings of doom trends). Today, I feel like I am hearing a transformed man: someone who is deeply experiencing God’s grace and walking closely with Jesus. He is effusive now with optimism (interestingly at a time with most everyone else is still discouraged or beaten down). It seems that God has met David in his deepest need of awful tragedy and the aftermath of rebuilding his life and world - and that God has done so in a remarkably transformative way. He has always been wicked smart. But now he speaks with the aroma of someone who walks closely with His Father. What a gift.
Carey I always look forward to your podcasts, this one in particular hit a resonant chord for me. thank you thank you thank you, both of you. Beauty from ashes.
Thanks so much Carey and David, this was a great talk. Here in New Zealand, as a nation we are so secular, and I believe a lack of discipleship, catechism etc is behind our young people not staying in church. This has been excellent food for thought. Thanks for your work, both of you.
How confident are clergy that they themselves know what the Gospel is? In my circle of unchurched/dechurched people, when we talk about existential things, they appreciate the teachings of Jesus on unconditional love. But they've been traumatized by the church. They think the gospel is you need to become a Christian, which means you need to ask Jesus into your heart (whatever that means), read your Bible, give up your bad habits (or at least don't talk about them), turn off your mind and trust that clergy has theology all figured out. Why is it that outside the institution the Gospel sounds like freedom, but inside the institution, it sounds like bondage? I also think there's a natural byproduct of paid clergy when it relates to openness. When the leader's livelihood is tied to affirming an existing statement of faith, there is most likely no way to question anything. Jesus radically questioned the interpretation of the religious establishment in his day. Paid clergy cannot do the same.
I do get the need to bring in and keep young families in the faith, BUT, what about the demographic that show Baby Boomers are a HUGE population often overlooked in Christian outreach? I know an older Christian worship pastor who looking for a position and he gets ignored or told he's not right fit!!!??? Yeah sure. Our young folks have lost, or never been taught to respect their elders. I volunteered as worship leader (it was just me and my guitar) in a small church led by a thirty year old pastor. Now, I've been playing guitar for fifty years, led worship in my youth and older years and this little 'know it all' actually had the nerve to tell me I sound to country!! And he didn't like my song choice after spending months learning 'his song list'. Finally, many older folks (75% of members were in their 60's and up) would come and shake my hand and thank me for playing some of their favorites gospel songs and we both praise the Lord together. Sadly, he was becoming more and more controlling and I confronted him with my thoughts as gently as I could about how he was treating me and basically said it was my problem. Can you imagine the arrogance of such a young pastor? We decided that was enough and left broken hearted. Now we are praying the Lord will humble him the way He humbled me and still does. Sorry for the rant. We are so sad that this young man is ignoring the blessings of having older saints attend his church. That will not last!
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I have listened to Kinnaman (live) previously, read one or more of his books, and read some of his research previously (often centering on problems in the church and warnings of doom trends). Today, I feel like I am hearing a transformed man: someone who is deeply experiencing God’s grace and walking closely with Jesus.
He is effusive now with optimism (interestingly at a time with most everyone else is still discouraged or beaten down). It seems that God has met David in his deepest need of awful tragedy and the aftermath of rebuilding his life and world - and that God has done so in a remarkably transformative way.
He has always been wicked smart. But now he speaks with the aroma of someone who walks closely with His Father. What a gift.
Carey I always look forward to your podcasts, this one in particular hit a resonant chord for me. thank you thank you thank you, both of you. Beauty from ashes.
Thanks for listening
Thanks so much Carey and David, this was a great talk. Here in New Zealand, as a nation we are so secular, and I believe a lack of discipleship, catechism etc is behind our young people not staying in church. This has been excellent food for thought. Thanks for your work, both of you.
Glad it was helpful!
One of the best interviews, Carey! Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
How confident are clergy that they themselves know what the Gospel is? In my circle of unchurched/dechurched people, when we talk about existential things, they appreciate the teachings of Jesus on unconditional love. But they've been traumatized by the church. They think the gospel is you need to become a Christian, which means you need to ask Jesus into your heart (whatever that means), read your Bible, give up your bad habits (or at least don't talk about them), turn off your mind and trust that clergy has theology all figured out. Why is it that outside the institution the Gospel sounds like freedom, but inside the institution, it sounds like bondage?
I also think there's a natural byproduct of paid clergy when it relates to openness. When the leader's livelihood is tied to affirming an existing statement of faith, there is most likely no way to question anything. Jesus radically questioned the interpretation of the religious establishment in his day. Paid clergy cannot do the same.
I do get the need to bring in and keep young families in the faith, BUT, what about the demographic that show Baby Boomers are a HUGE population often overlooked in Christian outreach? I know an older Christian worship pastor who looking for a position and he gets ignored or told he's not right fit!!!??? Yeah sure. Our young folks have lost, or never been taught to respect their elders. I volunteered as worship leader (it was just me and my guitar) in a small church led by a thirty year old pastor. Now, I've been playing guitar for fifty years, led worship in my youth and older years and this little 'know it all' actually had the nerve to tell me I sound to country!! And he didn't like my song choice after spending months learning 'his song list'. Finally, many older folks (75% of members were in their 60's and up) would come and shake my hand and thank me for playing some of their favorites gospel songs and we both praise the Lord together. Sadly, he was becoming more and more controlling and I confronted him with my thoughts as gently as I could about how he was treating me and basically said it was my problem. Can you imagine the arrogance of such a young pastor? We decided that was enough and left broken hearted. Now we are praying the Lord will humble him the way He humbled me and still does. Sorry for the rant. We are so sad that this young man is ignoring the blessings of having older saints attend his church. That will not last!
Great talk! But please no enneagram. If you research the true origin of it, you will see how bad it was, spiritually.