Bought a 2017 bolt with 35k on it then got the new battery install. I'm doing 210 miles per day through the chicago winters. New battery already has 100k on it.
You are getting 210 miles, even in Chicago winter? I live in suburbs of Chicago and considering a low mileage 2017 Bolt. Just curious how things will be in a Chicago winter? Thanks
Great to see you get the original pack to 150k. Doesn't sound like we'll see what deg at 200k would have been but it's a valuable data point to have here before you get the replacement pack. Well deserved and hard-earned after all those miles and fast charge sessions in the service of other Bolt EV drivers!
Man I would love to know how many Bolt owners out there have hit 200K -300K miles before a battery replacement. What a nice upgrade for those folks. Eric, 10% seems pretty good for your DCFC history. Could've been worse if a lot of zero to 100% DCFC sessions.
Eric, it seems to me that a 10 percent degraded capacity is not bad considering the mileage, battery age, and all the DC Fast charging that you have done.
@@newscoulomb3705 That’s what I expected. If charging to 100% on a DC Fast charger the amperage is very low anyways and probably comparable to the Level 2 rate at that point I would imagine. Seems to me very respectable degradation amount to me. That’s a lot of miles at 150,000 miles of driving. Thanks for this and all your videos!!! ✅ ⚡️ ⚡️ 🔋
Can't wait for u to get your replacement. Had almost 110k on my '18 with somewhere in the 7-10% degradation. It's been great getting back to close to 0% plus an extra 30 or so miles. Appreciate your videos, sir 🙏
Tesla? Well DCFC of a 60 or 66kWh pack at 50kW Vs Tesla’s 60-100kWh packs at 150kW - 250kW is going to degrade differently. Most stories of Tesla degrading is due to people not understanding that batteries store energy NOT miles. Miles are a function of speed, temperature, elevation, and mods. The most range comes from nerdy aero wheels and tires that are not great for handling and enthusiasts driving. People look at a Tesla and range based on base tires wheels plus ugly hubcaps at 45-55 mph. They put on heavy wide tires without aero covers and drive 85 mph and complain of “battery degradation”
I observed 52.1 kwh used from 100% down to 3% back in April on my 2017 (just before battery exchange). Add 1.8 kwh for the remaining 3% gets me to 53.9 kwh - at 77k miles. That’s about 10% reduction, assuming full 60 kwh capacity. There’s a label on the side of the battery which says 57 kwh, so maybe closer to 5% degradation? The new battery (installed in May) tested out at 62.4 kwh used when the charge level was at 3%. From this, I calculated the as new capacity as 64.33 kwh, which works out to almost a 20% increase - gotta like that!
The update GM did in 2017 appears to have reset the energy calculator to register ~58 kWh instead of the ~60 kWh it was originally, so you probably were only about 6% degradation at that point (which would track pretty close to what I was seeing, too). The 57 kWh was LG's internal rating system, which was based on a slightly different voltage range and discharge cycle than GM's energy rating, so I wouldn't put too much weight on those battery stickers. As for the new battery, yes, I've seen the energy capacities for both the 2020 and now the 2022, and both showed between 64 and 65 kWh usable between 0% and 100%. That's going to be a huge bump for me when I finally get the battery. That ~11 kWh or 20% bump should result in about 30 to 40 miles of additional freeway speed driving. It's going to be sweet!
Good information. Didn't think to do a degradation test before I had the battery swapped. At 40,000 miles, I've put a little over a quarter of what you done, and relatively little DC fast charging except for the occasional trip to see my daughter. Still, would have been nice. 10% degradation after nearly 5 years and 150,000 miles is pretty reasonable. Thanks for taking the time to let us know.
Thanks, Bruce! Yes, degradation isn't going to be a big deal for most people. The whole reason I decided to do this channel in the first place is because I knew my personal driving needs/habits pushed way past what the average person needs/does. If the car can serve my needs, it should be good for most people.
That 55 kW maximum charging rate is what really dates the Bolt, and probably one of the main things you have to warn prospective buyers about. Love my Bolt, but it is not the ideal vehicle for road trips! 🙂
Nice video and info!! I'm @ 135,XXX with ~54kwh. Degradation has been more noticable in the last year, I've been charging to 100% pretty much every AC session, due to range needs.
Interesting. So our numbers are not too far off. I'll probably do another test soon (if I decide to do a 1000 km speed test, I'll start at 100% by default).
Keep us updated on your battery pack replacement. It would be interesting for you to do a comparison of the DC charge rate of your car with the new 66 kWh pack compared to the original. I've seen conflicting info online that pre-2020 Bolts with the replacement pack have a slightly different charging curve than new 2020+ Bolts with the native 66 kWh pack.
@@newscoulomb3705 do you know how much to replace the battery pack? does the warranty still cover with those battery that cause fire in 2017 chevy bolt ev? thanks
@@tianh360 I haven't seen cost to replace a battery, but all pre-2022 Bolt EV/EUV are eligible to have their batteries replaced free of charge under the recall. The new battery comes with a full 8 year/100,000 mile warranty.
88% after 150k miles sounds pretty good to me. For my 2020 Bolt EV, Chevrolet says 66 kWh, but a sticker on the battery itself says 64 kWh, so I'll go with that. At this point, after 14k miles and with my driving routine, I'm getting 4.5 miles per kWh which amounts to 288 miles of range from the 64 kWh battery. At 150k miles, if I still have 88% of the vehicle's 259 miles of EPA estimated range, I'll be very happy. I rarely charge above 80% now anyway. With only 200 miles of range, this vehicle is still very practical even on road trips requiring DCFC.
Yeah, I definitely agree. I need to start doing some more testing with this new 64 kWh battery. Apparently, there are two different ratings for energy, which is why the sticker on the battery doesn't always match. I just go with the energy displayed in the car because that is what I can see and track.
@@newscoulomb3705 If you had 150k miles before Chevrolet replaced your battery, you made out like a bandit. They may never replace mine, but I'm happy enough with it anyway. If the diagnostic software says it's OK, I believe it.
i have a 2018 the battery is replaced. i noticed a slight increase in efficiency after replacement along with more range. no one seems to notice the increased efficiency, i'm interested to see if you notice after replacement.
I definitely noticed better low speed efficiency in both the 2020 and 2022 Bolt EVs that I've reviewed, but it was hard to see any difference at freeway speeds. With my current tires, though, it will be even harder to tell because I lost at least 5% efficiency switching over to them. I'll definitely keep an eye on the efficiency after the swap, though.
@@newscoulomb3705 which tires are u referring to? I saw a 3%+ decrease when installing my latest pair of Continental ControlContacts. Will be going back to Energy Savers next, It think.
No, not really. In my experience, the OBD2 reader and apps aren't very accurate when it comes to calculating degradation or even battery percentage. I've found that using the onscreen data and information from the charger (what the car is reporting to the charger) is far more accurate, and really, what I'm looking for is real-world numbers that can easily translate to what other Bolt EV owners are seeing (and not just those using OBD2 readers and apps).
The problem with the Spark degradation is the small battery. Cycling the battery (0 to 100% is a full cycle, 20-50% would be 30% of a cycle) is what degrades it, so the smaller the battery, the more you have to cycle it for the same driving usage. e.g. 100 mile range battery, drive 50 miles, that's half a cycle to recharge. 250 mile range, drive 50 miles, that's 20% of a cycle to recharge. So the 100 mile battery is going to degrade 2.5 times faster for the same usage scenario. I bought a Bolt as it has a 259 mile nominal range battery. Of course the Spark is also a smaller, lighter car, so you get more miles/kWh, so it's cheaper to run. Also, charging to 100%, and draining below 20% degrades the battery faster. If you can keep closer to the 50% mark, say charge at 30% and go to 70%, the battery will last longer. Of course then you only get to use 40% of your theoretical range, but if you only drive 40 miles a day and can recharge overnight that's not an issue. As battery technology improves we will (hopefully) get solid state batteries which charge faster, are more energy dense, and degrade slower, and the truly small EV should return to the market with a greatly increased range.
i watched a video talking about battery loss, most wont start till 150k or more, but then the next one is 200k to 250k miles, then 10% more, i can still deal with that,,
Hi :) I just got a 2017 bolt ev with 122000 km. It runs like a champ. I am wondering if when you press the accelerator or break, do you hear a click sound like the gear just setting when accelerating or decelerating? i dont feel anything I just hear a little click. Also, do you find it reliable ? I have no issues yet but just wondering what you thoughts are as you owned it frome day one and have more mileage then I do. Thanks for the videos! Its nice that you take time to share your experiences :)
Thank you. No, I haven't heard any clicking sounds on acceleration. Overall, I've found the Bolt EV to be very reliable. All of the issues I've had so far were the result of required maintenance, road wear/abuse, and recalls. Even then, none of those really affected the drivability in any meaningful way. Thanks for watching! I'll have more updates soon.
58.6kwh for my 2019 with ~10K miles on it. Best I could ever get. Also before it went away, I found that 55-56kwh was about as good as it got as the last 5% became highly unpredictable by 35,000 miles.
Yes. That's why I'm assuming ~2 kWh came off the top of the original programming. I don't know anyone with a 2018 to early 2019 that ever showed a full 60 kWh.
Wow good info thanks. What kind of temperature has your Bolt been subjected to? We are in Phoenix where it hardly cools down in the summer. Wonder how the Bolt would handle the heat. We almost bought a 2022 Bolt before the battery issue. Dealer was being a jackass so we walked. We might look at a 2023 with the new lower price when they come out. We had used 2014 Bmw I3 and the range was only 82 miles and in the two years we had it dropped to the low 50's range. Got rid of it at that point. Looking forward to getting back in an EV at some point.
Luckily, we have all four seasons here, but the highs in Northern California and the Central Valley rarely exceed 110 to 115. Still, I've flogged it at high speeds through those temperatures with repeated DC fast charges before, so I can honestly say that this car has been pushed pretty hard.
I'm in Las Vegas. I have a '17 with the replacement pack. I drove out to Indian Springs this past weekend. It was 108° I set my AC to 65° and my cruise to 75. It's 35ish miles and roughly an 800' rise in elevation. I averaged 2.7 MPKwh.... Times 66kwh battery gives you 178 miles under those conditions.
Good result. The Bolt barely DCFCs at 1C and it seems to have a good cooling system, so I bet you didn’t lose too much from DCFC, but there is no way to tell. I am guessing GM calendar aging lost you a few percent and time spent at 100% lost you several percent if not 5%.
Piling the miles up on my '21; looking like a very solid long term prospect. 10%, sweeeet! Might be adding a '22 or '23 Bolt to our family but want to be assured that the charge curve for these cars isn't too much worse than our '21. We road trip fairly often in the 250-350 mile range and it's been little to no problem in the '21. I actually ran into 2 consecutive Ioniq 5's having multiple charge errors at an EA in Pennsylvania; ahh, early days.
It should be the same charging curve as your 2021. The issue seems to be with the thermal management settings, and if you push the car too hard, you get punished. There might actually be a better strategy for traveling with the Bolt EV, but if you take it easy on road trips, you might not even notice.
@@newscoulomb3705 Well that is good to know. Might have to addend the old best ravel speed for available charge rate chart, ehh? Seriously, that sounds okay especially since most of our trips so far have not had more than 1 DC session in the middle. I believe the '22 has slightly better aero as well. Tom Moloughney was supposed to publish new 70 mph range tests for EV and EUV (they haven't dropped yet I believe). He stated on the inside EV's podcast that the Bolt EV went further than it's EPA range rating; the EUV went something like 232.
Now that you've hit 150K miles, have you given any thought about the maintenance schedule? Have you thought about changing the coolant ot the transmission fluid?
Great question. I was just notified that I will be receiving my replacement battery this week (which is why I put off the maintenance), and part of replacing the battery is draining the coolant. I will ask them about additional maintenance when I'm there.
That is impressive to have only that level of degradation. We ended up getting a buyback from GM at a decent price on our 2018 Bolt as we were planning on selling it and had purchased a Model Y. The Bolt was amazing and if we needed two cars we would have kept it in a heartbeat. In fact with the current lack of good used EVs we could have sold it for quite a bit more than the GM buyback. But who can predict a pandemic with global supply issues....Are you planning on keeping your Bolt after the battery replacement or thinking of another EV?
I'm definitely going to keep the Bolt EV after the battery swap. The next car on the chopping block is the 2015 Chevy Volt, but I'm not in a rush to replace it. Maybe as it gets closer to the warranty period ending, I'll start looking. The Equinox EV is probably what I'm most interested in at this point, mostly because of its cost/value.
when I drove to Salt Lake City to las Vegas with my chevy boltI was averaging a little better than 200 miles per charge with my new battery is that good or bad
Those are 80 mph freeways, so I think 200 miles would be expected at those speeds. You should be seeing around 64 kWh used from full to empty with a new battery, so 200 miles would be 320 Wh/mi or around 3.1 mi/kWh. That's in line with expected efficiency at those driving speeds.
I have a 2017 Premier with 39000 miles on it and got my new battery pack 4 months ago. I have just recently gotten my battery pack coolant reservoir to stabilize at the correct level because the dealership did not follow GM guidelines when I got my new battery pack. When I got home with the new battery pack I checked the battery pack coolant reservoir and it was about a quarter inch of Dexcool in the bottom. I was not happy. Right now I am debating on a new 2023 Bolt EUV or a 2023 Equinox EV with the Ultium Battery pack. The lower prices on the Bolt EV and EUV is great and the Equinox should start out around 30,000 dollars. My new battery pack is doing fine. I am also looking at the possibility of an Ioniq 5 or a Ford F-150 Lightning. I would love to have better DC fast Charging and faster Level 2 charging as the 2022 Bolt EV and EUV already have. I wish the 2022 Bolt EV and EUV had faster DC Fast Charging. The Ioniq 5 seems like a good option for DC Fast Charging but not so good Level 2 charging. I guess it would be smarter to just keep what I have.
I'm also keeping an eye on the Equinox EV. The Ultium battery should represent a very big jump over what we see in the Bolt EV. The Ioniq 5 is a beast when it comes to DC charging, and the AC charging speed really isn't that important in my opinion. There are a lot of good EV options, but I agree: Your current Bolt EV is a known quantity.
@Stan Piers - as a potential new owner of a lot-bound 2022 Bolt EV awaiting its new battery, could you elaborate on how the service tech did not follow GM guidelines for the install?
It probably made a difference, but I think the biggest factor is that I charged to 100% most of the time for the first year. Even in 100 degree weather. That will take a toll.
That Google research isn't accounting for the fact that my Bolt EV predated the patch that appears to have reduced usable capacity by ~2 kWh (at least on Energy Usage screen). I documented that update and the results on this channel. So in terms of real capacity loss, it would be based on starting with an initial capacity of 58-59 kWh.
No, I haven't done any work on that. There was supposed to be a coolant flush at 150,000 miles, but that's pretty pointless at this point because I'm still waiting on my battery swap, where that maintenance will have to be done anyway. Outside of that, my only maintenance costs have been wipers, wiper fluid, cabin air filter, and tires. Even the brake pads and rotors are still original.
I plan to keep my bolt for long term. Wonder what kind of fix have you done to your bolt? Just want to know what kind of problem I may have down the road...
There really haven't been any fixes. I've taken it in for a couple of recalls, but those didn't cost me anything. Other than that, it was only wear items and damage. So things like tires, wiper blades, and cabin air filters, but also a replacement windshield due to rock cracks. Outside of that, the Bolt EV has had zero issues.
@@yili9725 So far, nothing. I think the Bolt mostly has sealed bearings, but I haven't needed to check/replace anything so far. Even the battery coolant flush was done when the battery was replaced under warranty (that flush usually happens at 150,000 miles).
That is what you get when you insist on charging to 100% and draining to near zero. Most of the time, we don't need to charge to 100%. So, we mostly charge to about 80% and don't drain to below 20%. Charge to !00% only if we need when taking long trips and need every mile to reach the next charging station. Look at it like constantly filling and draining an air balloon. Filling to 100% stretches it, draining it to near zero, wrinkles it. Less of that is best for the battery.
With batteries, it's more about letting them sit at 100%. I was charging to 100% and letting it sit for long periods the first year, but I started limiting it to 90% after that. The arriving with
After the first year, I tried to limit most of my charging to 90%, but I would still occasionally charge to 100% if I needed the extra range (e.g., before long trips).
Not that I've seen. There might be a voltage buffer, but it's not accessible to the user. When you hit 0% in the Bolt EV, it's done. My theory is that when GM did the battery software update where I observed 2 kWh go missing, that was possibly to set up an inaccessible top and bottom buffer to prevent battery stress. But I was accounting for that in my post-update degradation calculation.
10% battery degradation at 100,000 miles means 100% degradation at 1,000,000 miles. And, if an owner does not abuse his/her Bolt with frequent fast charging or severe driving conditions, the battery is likely to last even longer than that. Not bad at all.
Interesting to see your experience with the 2022 Bolt since it is very different than my 2022 Bolt EUV. The charging speeds are actually much more consistent on my 2022 than my old 2019, and the threshold of minimum temperature needed to get max charging speeds is lower. As long as the battery is at least about 65f, I’ll get around 50kw charging speeds up to at least 50%. If I plug in at a higher SOC (say like 30%) then it’ll maintain 50kw until almost 60%. If I plug in at below 10%, it’ll taper closer to 50%. But yeah, as far as being able to get peak charging speeds, my 2022 seems better than my 2019. My 2022 also has the updated pack (the car was built after the battery problems were found and production was restarted) The slow DCFC speeds are frustrating on road trips (especially after you experience road trips on a car that charges much faster, like my Ioniq5) but the benefit is that it helps reduce battery degradation. I actually typically charge my Ioniq5 on 150kw chargers because it still charges really fast and doesn’t heat up the battery as much.
Interesting. I'm pretty sure temperature is the problem here, but I wonder whether your 2022 is more consistent because of lower temperatures. On the high end, it seemed like one of the recall software patches actually put some checks in place because of battery overheating, which is a bigger problem for me because of higher summertime temperatures. Over all, I would like to see the Bolt EV's charging speed improve, but I also understand why it is the speed it is. It's the cost of having a low-cost, long-range battery. Still, GM didn't configure it as ideally as they could have, and I think people would be surprised by the result of something as simple as a 200 A charging socket. At that point, it could have a charging curve similar to the Kona Electric or Niro EV, but I wouldn't expect GM to push it that far.
I'm not sure anyone knows at this point. There would be a core charge, and GM EV techs charge about $250 an hour. So it would probably be $1,500 to $2,000 for labor and then whatever the battery cost minus core. So far, the only batteries that have had to be replaced were still under warranty.
They are, but my local dealerships are all very slow to replace. Several have told me that they only have the bandwidth to do one or two battery replacements a month, so I figured I'd use the opportunity to keep testing my original battery as long as possible.
Don't get your new battery, I want more long-term degradation data!!!! 😄 My 2019 is at 100K on the car, but we already got our new battery at about 85k.
i thought fast charging between 30%-70% does no damage to li-battery. maybe eric's frequent dc fast charging was helping him. calculation wise, gm says there is 57 kwh electricity can be used to drive. so i am not sure if eric's calculation has the right denominator.
Fast charging between 30% and 70% significantly reduces battery wear, but it wouldn't eliminate it completely. The 57 kWh is also not accurate. Yes, it's on a sticker on the case from LG, but it's not the same energy calculation that GM used to come up with 60 kWh. GM's numbers are what is displayed in the car, and even the later 58 kWh that many Bolt EV owners saw displayed new appears to be due to GM's adding a buffer that reduced that original 60 kWh.
@@newscoulomb3705 my point was your fast charging during long distance trips actually does not hurt the battery. calculation wise, gm advertise 10% degradation on 100000miles, or 5.7-6 kwh. and that should be really achievable. If your battery capacity reduce less than that, meaning you are doing ok.
@@yili9725 Ah, I see. But that's still not right if you're assuming that I'm starting most of my DCFC sessions at 30%. Typically, I'm starting my DCFC sessions at
I think 10% deg isn’t pretty good at 150k. maybe at 250k will be serious losses and problems. it seems that battery needs more upgrades. for more reliability degradation at 300k must be 10% and no more
The 10% includes the ~2 kWh that was lost due to reprogramming how the energy was calculated. Either way, I spent most of the first year charging to 100%, which had most of the impact on degradation.
They're essentially replacing the Bolt with the Equinox. The hope is that this will only be for the time being, and GM will eventually bring back the Bolt EV or some equivalent compact hatchback.
You have to take into consideration that this is not a scientific test and both the Bolt's and the EA charger's indicated energy use is not 100% accurate. Also i believe even though the battery was rated 60kWh, it was 57, wasn't it?
Yes, this is mostly a data point using available information, which is why I'm fine with rounding the results. In terms of the Bolt EV battery, it shipped with (and per the energy usage screen had) ~60 kWh of usable capacity. The Bolt EV's energy rating system appears to have been adjusted in early 2017, which is where I said I lost that ~2 kWh. From that point forward, most Bolt EV owners reported about ~58 kWh usable per their display. The 57 kWh rating was based on a sticker that LG put on the battery case. It appears to be the result of LG using a different method and parameters for measuring capacity, which doesn't align with what the Bolt EV actually displays.
Wow! That’s great news about battery life. How long do you estimate it will be before the battery needs to be replaced? I only ask because EV skeptics tend to always bring up the “you’ll have to replace your battery in just a few short years and it will be very expensive” argument. What are your thoughts on that?
It's going to be hard to tell because my Bolt EV is still slated for a battery replacement under recall. Also, it depends on what metric you use. If we consider 80% of the original capacity the cutoff for automotive use, it's looking like a minimum of 12 years and 300,000 miles before the battery would need to be replaced. At that point, the original battery would probably still have another 10 to 20 years of service life as a "second life" battery before needing to be decommissioned and recycled.
The 80% figure is very arbitrary. It ultimately depends on what type of driving you do and how good the charging network is. Someone who uses the car primarily for city driving has no reason to pay attention to the 80% cutoff. Even road tripping, if the charging network is sufficiently good and you're the type of person who needs lots of breaks anyway, 80% the Bolt's capacity is just fine, especially if the road trip is taking place during the summer (as most road trips do).
@@ab-tf5fl Yes, that's true. Realistically, you could keep driving down to 50% or even 60% battery. Some original Nissan LEAF owners did. It's very limiting, but still possible.
this is all pretty sketchy there are many things that can affect the range of your EV. Not just the battery, but wheel alignment, a sticky brake caliper, changes to your use of the heater or AC, changes to your driving habits. The range estimator on the dash board is only guessing how much range is left after a long trip, it can be off in either direction. You can use an OBD2 reader to read the voltage of each cell in the battery pack. If you treat this like compression on a gas engine, and keep track of it over the years, you should be able to tell when a battery cell is starting to go bad. But unless you have a standard 200 mile drive that you can use for a test, at the same time of year, at the same temperature, road and traffic conditions, and use the cruise control to maintain the same speed each time you drive it, and take the wind speed into consideration (ask any motorcycle rider with no windshield).... I think you would just be chasing the wind. When you charge your car the charger will tell you how many KW-Hrs it supplied, but it cannot tell you the charging efficiency of your batteries. They are not 100% efficient - to fully charge a 60kwhr battery pack you might need to put 65 or 66 or 69 KHhrs into it, also depending on temperature. When the car shows you (on the onstar ap for example) that the battery is 60% or 100% charged, what does that even mean? What is it measuring?
It appears that you don't understand the methodology. The Range Estimator isn't used for any part of the calculation. Even the actual range and miles on the odometer aren't factored. The only data points are the Energy Used display, battery SOC readings (from multiple sources), and previously collected data using the same methodology.
They do, especially earlier on. Tesla has improved a lot with their drive units, which used to go out more regularly, but I don't know that I've ever heard of a GM drive unit failing. It's usually a supporting component of some kind.
The cells aren't bad, but they are a potential fire risk. There's no way to confirm that they are bad, so it is safer to simply replace all the cells in the pack.
@@livingthedash6727 Perhaps, but GM dealerships won't do that under the full recall. In my opinion, it's better to just take the free replacement battery and not worry about it.
Those things affect gas cars, too. If people are forgetting that, it explains why I see so many abandoned gas cars on the side of the freeway. Sure, some had overheated or caught on fire, but I guess the rest just ran out of fuel. 🤷♂
@@newscoulomb3705 Good points. All I'm saying is EV's are the future but there are problems for long roadtrips,combined with Temp impact is not practical for the majority. Design EV with 400 mile range with min drop in range, MSRP mid 30K you have a game changer. Until then I'm happy with my 38mpg average ICE.
@@kv1930 You'd have a game changer long before that. A new Bolt EV (not mine, with over 150,000 miles) would already meet the needs of a majority of drivers (according to DOT data, fewer than half of all drivers ever take long trips of 200 miles or more). The sticking point is still price. The median new car purchase price is still less than $30,000, and most people still can't (or won't) buy cars new. Price a 200 to 250 mile EV at $25,000 MSRP, and you'll have your game changer.
Where is the gas pump while my car is parked and I'm sleeping? So much easier to never go to a gas pump and mess around with card skimmers and broken pumps. I'll pass hard on that nonsense.
Bought a 2017 bolt with 35k on it then got the new battery install. I'm doing 210 miles per day through the chicago winters. New battery already has 100k on it.
You are getting 210 miles, even in Chicago winter? I live in suburbs of Chicago and considering a low mileage 2017 Bolt. Just curious how things will be in a Chicago winter? Thanks
Thanks Eric! This has been such a great channel to follow over the past 3-4 years, as a prospective and current Bolt owner!
Great to see you get the original pack to 150k. Doesn't sound like we'll see what deg at 200k would have been but it's a valuable data point to have here before you get the replacement pack. Well deserved and hard-earned after all those miles and fast charge sessions in the service of other Bolt EV drivers!
Thanks, Steve! I need to start making some phone calls to see if I can get this pack replaced soon.
He needs to hurry and drive 50,000 miles this summer , for the subscribers
@@olemissjim I'd happily chip in for charging costs to see it =)
Man I would love to know how many Bolt owners out there have hit 200K -300K miles before a battery replacement. What a nice upgrade for those folks. Eric, 10% seems pretty good for your DCFC history. Could've been worse if a lot of zero to 100% DCFC sessions.
I know a few people who were 150,000+ miles at the time of their replacement. I don't think anyone hit 200,000, but I could be wrong.
Eric, it seems to me that a 10 percent degraded capacity is not bad considering the mileage, battery age, and all the DC Fast charging that you have done.
Yeah, I'm not upset. It makes me wonder how much better it would have been if I babied it the first year and didn't charge it to 100% every day.
@@newscoulomb3705 Well considering that in the equation even makes it more respectable I think. Was that 100% charging done with Level 2 mainly?
@@mikehedrick6544 Yes. I almost never charge to 100% on DCFC, unless I'm doing some sort of specific testing.
@@newscoulomb3705 That’s what I expected. If charging to 100% on a DC Fast charger the amperage is very low anyways and probably comparable to the Level 2 rate at that point I would imagine. Seems to me very respectable degradation amount to me. That’s a lot of miles at 150,000 miles of driving. Thanks for this and all your videos!!! ✅ ⚡️ ⚡️ 🔋
@@mikehedrick6544 Thank you for watching, and you're welcome!
Can't wait for u to get your replacement. Had almost 110k on my '18 with somewhere in the 7-10% degradation. It's been great getting back to close to 0% plus an extra 30 or so miles. Appreciate your videos, sir 🙏
Thank you! Congrats on your new battery. I'm getting excited to get the extra capacity.
Thanks Eric, always very useful information from you.
Thanks! Just providing data points where I can. 🙂
Thanks. 10% degradation is probably less than the manufacturer who shall not be named, especially given all the DCFC you've done.
Tesla? Well DCFC of a 60 or 66kWh pack at 50kW Vs Tesla’s 60-100kWh packs at 150kW - 250kW is going to degrade differently. Most stories of Tesla degrading is due to people not understanding that batteries store energy NOT miles. Miles are a function of speed, temperature, elevation, and mods. The most range comes from nerdy aero wheels and tires that are not great for handling and enthusiasts driving. People look at a Tesla and range based on base tires wheels plus ugly hubcaps at 45-55 mph. They put on heavy wide tires without aero covers and drive 85 mph and complain of “battery degradation”
Wow I’ve been following you for YEARS!
Those are good results! You’re car is in great shape.
I observed 52.1 kwh used from 100% down to 3% back in April on my 2017 (just before battery exchange). Add 1.8 kwh for the remaining 3% gets me to 53.9 kwh - at 77k miles. That’s about 10% reduction, assuming full 60 kwh capacity. There’s a label on the side of the battery which says 57 kwh, so maybe closer to 5% degradation? The new battery (installed in May) tested out at 62.4 kwh used when the charge level was at 3%. From this, I calculated the as new capacity as 64.33 kwh, which works out to almost a 20% increase - gotta like that!
The update GM did in 2017 appears to have reset the energy calculator to register ~58 kWh instead of the ~60 kWh it was originally, so you probably were only about 6% degradation at that point (which would track pretty close to what I was seeing, too). The 57 kWh was LG's internal rating system, which was based on a slightly different voltage range and discharge cycle than GM's energy rating, so I wouldn't put too much weight on those battery stickers.
As for the new battery, yes, I've seen the energy capacities for both the 2020 and now the 2022, and both showed between 64 and 65 kWh usable between 0% and 100%. That's going to be a huge bump for me when I finally get the battery. That ~11 kWh or 20% bump should result in about 30 to 40 miles of additional freeway speed driving. It's going to be sweet!
Good information. Didn't think to do a degradation test before I had the battery swapped. At 40,000 miles, I've put a little over a quarter of what you done, and relatively little DC fast charging except for the occasional trip to see my daughter. Still, would have been nice. 10% degradation after nearly 5 years and 150,000 miles is pretty reasonable. Thanks for taking the time to let us know.
Thanks, Bruce! Yes, degradation isn't going to be a big deal for most people. The whole reason I decided to do this channel in the first place is because I knew my personal driving needs/habits pushed way past what the average person needs/does. If the car can serve my needs, it should be good for most people.
One thing people gripe about the bolt is the low fast charging rate. However it appears to extend battery life
seems dubious considering much faster charging vehicles are also achieving similar degradations
I received my new battery in April, love the extended range would’ve preferred an increase in charging speed
That 55 kW maximum charging rate is what really dates the Bolt, and probably one of the main things you have to warn prospective buyers about. Love my Bolt, but it is not the ideal vehicle for road trips! 🙂
Nice video and info!! I'm @ 135,XXX with ~54kwh. Degradation has been more noticable in the last year, I've been charging to 100% pretty much every AC session, due to range needs.
Interesting. So our numbers are not too far off. I'll probably do another test soon (if I decide to do a 1000 km speed test, I'll start at 100% by default).
Thanks for the update.
Charge on!
Keep us updated on your battery pack replacement. It would be interesting for you to do a comparison of the DC charge rate of your car with the new 66 kWh pack compared to the original. I've seen conflicting info online that pre-2020 Bolts with the replacement pack have a slightly different charging curve than new 2020+ Bolts with the native 66 kWh pack.
I'll definitely keep you posted! I just need to figure out when that replacement pack is coming.
@@newscoulomb3705 do you know how much to replace the battery pack? does the warranty still cover with those battery that cause fire in 2017 chevy bolt ev? thanks
@@tianh360 I haven't seen cost to replace a battery, but all pre-2022 Bolt EV/EUV are eligible to have their batteries replaced free of charge under the recall. The new battery comes with a full 8 year/100,000 mile warranty.
Had my bolt for 1 1/2 years 90% of the time I drive between 70 and 75. I get 3.5 economy. Does that sound right to you?
Yes, that sounds about right. It's not too far off of what I've experienced with very similar driving.
88% after 150k miles sounds pretty good to me. For my 2020 Bolt EV, Chevrolet says 66 kWh, but a sticker on the battery itself says 64 kWh, so I'll go with that. At this point, after 14k miles and with my driving routine, I'm getting 4.5 miles per kWh which amounts to 288 miles of range from the 64 kWh battery. At 150k miles, if I still have 88% of the vehicle's 259 miles of EPA estimated range, I'll be very happy. I rarely charge above 80% now anyway. With only 200 miles of range, this vehicle is still very practical even on road trips requiring DCFC.
Yeah, I definitely agree. I need to start doing some more testing with this new 64 kWh battery. Apparently, there are two different ratings for energy, which is why the sticker on the battery doesn't always match. I just go with the energy displayed in the car because that is what I can see and track.
@@newscoulomb3705 If you had 150k miles before Chevrolet replaced your battery, you made out like a bandit. They may never replace mine, but I'm happy enough with it anyway. If the diagnostic software says it's OK, I believe it.
Useful information, thanks. Please make more videos.
i have a 2018 the battery is replaced. i noticed a slight increase in efficiency after replacement along with more range. no one seems to notice the increased efficiency, i'm interested to see if you notice after replacement.
I definitely noticed better low speed efficiency in both the 2020 and 2022 Bolt EVs that I've reviewed, but it was hard to see any difference at freeway speeds. With my current tires, though, it will be even harder to tell because I lost at least 5% efficiency switching over to them. I'll definitely keep an eye on the efficiency after the swap, though.
@@newscoulomb3705 which tires are u referring to? I saw a 3%+ decrease when installing my latest pair of Continental ControlContacts. Will be going back to Energy Savers next, It think.
Can you get more details on the battery level and performance with an OBD reader?
No, not really. In my experience, the OBD2 reader and apps aren't very accurate when it comes to calculating degradation or even battery percentage. I've found that using the onscreen data and information from the charger (what the car is reporting to the charger) is far more accurate, and really, what I'm looking for is real-world numbers that can easily translate to what other Bolt EV owners are seeing (and not just those using OBD2 readers and apps).
That is really good degradation if that's the original battery. Very cool. My spark is around 90 percent from new with roughly 38k miles..
The problem with the Spark degradation is the small battery.
Cycling the battery (0 to 100% is a full cycle, 20-50% would be 30% of a cycle) is what degrades it, so the smaller the battery, the more you have to cycle it for the same driving usage.
e.g. 100 mile range battery, drive 50 miles, that's half a cycle to recharge. 250 mile range, drive 50 miles, that's 20% of a cycle to recharge. So the 100 mile battery is going to degrade 2.5 times faster for the same usage scenario.
I bought a Bolt as it has a 259 mile nominal range battery.
Of course the Spark is also a smaller, lighter car, so you get more miles/kWh, so it's cheaper to run.
Also, charging to 100%, and draining below 20% degrades the battery faster. If you can keep closer to the 50% mark, say charge at 30% and go to 70%, the battery will last longer. Of course then you only get to use 40% of your theoretical range, but if you only drive 40 miles a day and can recharge overnight that's not an issue.
As battery technology improves we will (hopefully) get solid state batteries which charge faster, are more energy dense, and degrade slower, and the truly small EV should return to the market with a greatly increased range.
my battery was replaced in February I did your math formula it said I lost 5 % is that normal on my chevy bolt
i watched a video talking about battery loss, most wont start till 150k or more, but then the next one is 200k to 250k miles, then 10% more, i can still deal with that,,
It's otherwise too much battery for me but I like the room for degradation, recent 23 bolt EV owner
Hi :) I just got a 2017 bolt ev with 122000 km. It runs like a champ. I am wondering if when you press the accelerator or break, do you hear a click sound like the gear just setting when accelerating or decelerating? i dont feel anything I just hear a little click. Also, do you find it reliable ? I have no issues yet but just wondering what you thoughts are as you owned it frome day one and have more mileage then I do. Thanks for the videos! Its nice that you take time to share your experiences :)
Thank you. No, I haven't heard any clicking sounds on acceleration. Overall, I've found the Bolt EV to be very reliable. All of the issues I've had so far were the result of required maintenance, road wear/abuse, and recalls. Even then, none of those really affected the drivability in any meaningful way. Thanks for watching! I'll have more updates soon.
For 5 years and that many miles that's an excellent value.
58.6kwh for my 2019 with ~10K miles on it. Best I could ever get. Also before it went away, I found that 55-56kwh was about as good as it got as the last 5% became highly unpredictable by 35,000 miles.
Yes. That's why I'm assuming ~2 kWh came off the top of the original programming. I don't know anyone with a 2018 to early 2019 that ever showed a full 60 kWh.
Wow good info thanks. What kind of temperature has your Bolt been subjected to? We are in Phoenix where it hardly cools down in the summer. Wonder how the Bolt would handle the heat. We almost bought a 2022 Bolt before the battery issue. Dealer was being a jackass so we walked. We might look at a 2023 with the new lower price when they come out.
We had used 2014 Bmw I3 and the range was only 82 miles and in the two years we had it dropped to the low 50's range. Got rid of it at that point.
Looking forward to getting back in an EV at some point.
Luckily, we have all four seasons here, but the highs in Northern California and the Central Valley rarely exceed 110 to 115. Still, I've flogged it at high speeds through those temperatures with repeated DC fast charges before, so I can honestly say that this car has been pushed pretty hard.
I'm in Las Vegas. I have a '17 with the replacement pack. I drove out to Indian Springs this past weekend. It was 108° I set my AC to 65° and my cruise to 75. It's 35ish miles and roughly an 800' rise in elevation. I averaged 2.7 MPKwh.... Times 66kwh battery gives you 178 miles under those conditions.
Do you have an obd2 reader? Along with torq pro and a custom profile I'd be curious to see how many charge cycles you have had.
I do, but I haven't hooked it up for a while now. Is there a custom PID for charge cycles?
Good result. The Bolt barely DCFCs at 1C and it seems to have a good cooling system, so I bet you didn’t lose too much from DCFC, but there is no way to tell. I am guessing GM calendar aging lost you a few percent and time spent at 100% lost you several percent if not 5%.
Piling the miles up on my '21; looking like a very solid long term prospect. 10%, sweeeet! Might be adding a '22 or '23 Bolt to our family but want to be assured that the charge curve for these cars isn't too much worse than our '21. We road trip fairly often in the 250-350 mile range and it's been little to no problem in the '21. I actually ran into 2 consecutive Ioniq 5's having multiple charge errors at an EA in Pennsylvania; ahh, early days.
It should be the same charging curve as your 2021. The issue seems to be with the thermal management settings, and if you push the car too hard, you get punished. There might actually be a better strategy for traveling with the Bolt EV, but if you take it easy on road trips, you might not even notice.
@@newscoulomb3705 Well that is good to know. Might have to addend the old best ravel speed for available charge rate chart, ehh? Seriously, that sounds okay especially since most of our trips so far have not had more than 1 DC session in the middle. I believe the '22 has slightly better aero as well. Tom Moloughney was supposed to publish new 70 mph range tests for EV and EUV (they haven't dropped yet I believe). He stated on the inside EV's podcast that the Bolt EV went further than it's EPA range rating; the EUV went something like 232.
Glad California is getting some rain!
Unfortunately, this was just an isolated cell. Northern California gets a lot of those. Drops 2 to 4 inches in a narrow swath and just moves on.
Now that you've hit 150K miles, have you given any thought about the maintenance schedule? Have you thought about changing the coolant ot the transmission fluid?
Great question. I was just notified that I will be receiving my replacement battery this week (which is why I put off the maintenance), and part of replacing the battery is draining the coolant. I will ask them about additional maintenance when I'm there.
That is impressive to have only that level of degradation. We ended up getting a buyback from GM at a decent price on our 2018 Bolt as we were planning on selling it and had purchased a Model Y. The Bolt was amazing and if we needed two cars we would have kept it in a heartbeat. In fact with the current lack of good used EVs we could have sold it for quite a bit more than the GM buyback. But who can predict a pandemic with global supply issues....Are you planning on keeping your Bolt after the battery replacement or thinking of another EV?
I'm definitely going to keep the Bolt EV after the battery swap. The next car on the chopping block is the 2015 Chevy Volt, but I'm not in a rush to replace it. Maybe as it gets closer to the warranty period ending, I'll start looking. The Equinox EV is probably what I'm most interested in at this point, mostly because of its cost/value.
when I drove to Salt Lake City to las Vegas with my chevy boltI was averaging a little better than 200 miles per charge with my new battery is that good or bad
Those are 80 mph freeways, so I think 200 miles would be expected at those speeds. You should be seeing around 64 kWh used from full to empty with a new battery, so 200 miles would be 320 Wh/mi or around 3.1 mi/kWh. That's in line with expected efficiency at those driving speeds.
I have a 2017 Premier with 39000 miles on it and got my new battery pack 4 months ago. I have just recently gotten my battery pack coolant reservoir to stabilize at the correct level because the dealership did not follow GM guidelines when I got my new battery pack. When I got home with the new battery pack I checked the battery pack coolant reservoir and it was about a quarter inch of Dexcool in the bottom. I was not happy. Right now I am debating on a new 2023 Bolt EUV or a 2023 Equinox EV with the Ultium Battery pack. The lower prices on the Bolt EV and EUV is great and the Equinox should start out around 30,000 dollars. My new battery pack is doing fine. I am also looking at the possibility of an Ioniq 5 or a Ford F-150 Lightning. I would love to have better DC fast Charging and faster Level 2 charging as the 2022 Bolt EV and EUV already have. I wish the 2022 Bolt EV and EUV had faster DC Fast Charging. The Ioniq 5 seems like a good option for DC Fast Charging but not so good Level 2 charging. I guess it would be smarter to just keep what I have.
I'm also keeping an eye on the Equinox EV. The Ultium battery should represent a very big jump over what we see in the Bolt EV. The Ioniq 5 is a beast when it comes to DC charging, and the AC charging speed really isn't that important in my opinion. There are a lot of good EV options, but I agree: Your current Bolt EV is a known quantity.
@Stan Piers - as a potential new owner of a lot-bound 2022 Bolt EV awaiting its new battery, could you elaborate on how the service tech did not follow GM guidelines for the install?
I love my EUV and hope to love it for 150k more miles.
I wonder how all the DC fast charging affected the battery?
It probably made a difference, but I think the biggest factor is that I charged to 100% most of the time for the first year. Even in 100 degree weather. That will take a toll.
Google says that the battery was originally 60.9 kwh but only 58 was usable so you had about 9.1% degradation.
That Google research isn't accounting for the fact that my Bolt EV predated the patch that appears to have reduced usable capacity by ~2 kWh (at least on Energy Usage screen). I documented that update and the results on this channel. So in terms of real capacity loss, it would be based on starting with an initial capacity of 58-59 kWh.
Have you ever needed to replace the electric motor or anything relevant to the drivetrain? How about fluids/oil?
No, I haven't done any work on that. There was supposed to be a coolant flush at 150,000 miles, but that's pretty pointless at this point because I'm still waiting on my battery swap, where that maintenance will have to be done anyway.
Outside of that, my only maintenance costs have been wipers, wiper fluid, cabin air filter, and tires. Even the brake pads and rotors are still original.
Original battery or recalled battery?
This was prior to the battery replacement.
I plan to keep my bolt for long term. Wonder what kind of fix have you done to your bolt? Just want to know what kind of problem I may have down the road...
There really haven't been any fixes. I've taken it in for a couple of recalls, but those didn't cost me anything. Other than that, it was only wear items and damage. So things like tires, wiper blades, and cabin air filters, but also a replacement windshield due to rock cracks. Outside of that, the Bolt EV has had zero issues.
@@newscoulomb3705 wow. how about wheel bearings, arms? I wonder how the car holds up on those mechanical parts that usually gets wear and tear.
@@yili9725 So far, nothing. I think the Bolt mostly has sealed bearings, but I haven't needed to check/replace anything so far. Even the battery coolant flush was done when the battery was replaced under warranty (that flush usually happens at 150,000 miles).
That is what you get when you insist on charging to 100% and draining to near zero. Most of the time, we don't need to charge to 100%. So, we mostly charge to about 80% and don't drain to below 20%. Charge to !00% only if we need when taking long trips and need every mile to reach the next charging station. Look at it like constantly filling and draining an air balloon. Filling to 100% stretches it, draining it to near zero, wrinkles it. Less of that is best for the battery.
With batteries, it's more about letting them sit at 100%. I was charging to 100% and letting it sit for long periods the first year, but I started limiting it to 90% after that. The arriving with
do you keep your car charged to 100%
After the first year, I tried to limit most of my charging to 90%, but I would still occasionally charge to 100% if I needed the extra range (e.g., before long trips).
Is there a low-end buffer on the battery? 0-100% on our car only maps about 93% of the total kWh. Could your degradation be less than you calculated?
Not that I've seen. There might be a voltage buffer, but it's not accessible to the user. When you hit 0% in the Bolt EV, it's done. My theory is that when GM did the battery software update where I observed 2 kWh go missing, that was possibly to set up an inaccessible top and bottom buffer to prevent battery stress. But I was accounting for that in my post-update degradation calculation.
Wow. 10% battery degradation over 7 years and 150k is damn good!
I rarely use DCFC and when I do, its to top off and im not plugged in more than 10-15 mins.
Is the 2023 Bolt going to be the last Bolt?
Not according to recent comments from a GM representative. They said that they have no current plans to remove the Bolt EV from their lineup.
Just got the new 66kWh battery pack in my 2019 BoltEV (with 60,000 miles) and it is wonderful. Car is better than new!
Awesome! Congratulations, Greg!
10% battery degradation at 100,000 miles means 100% degradation at 1,000,000 miles. And, if an owner does not abuse his/her Bolt with frequent fast charging or severe driving conditions, the battery is likely to last even longer than that. Not bad at all.
Interesting to see your experience with the 2022 Bolt since it is very different than my 2022 Bolt EUV. The charging speeds are actually much more consistent on my 2022 than my old 2019, and the threshold of minimum temperature needed to get max charging speeds is lower. As long as the battery is at least about 65f, I’ll get around 50kw charging speeds up to at least 50%. If I plug in at a higher SOC (say like 30%) then it’ll maintain 50kw until almost 60%. If I plug in at below 10%, it’ll taper closer to 50%. But yeah, as far as being able to get peak charging speeds, my 2022 seems better than my 2019. My 2022 also has the updated pack (the car was built after the battery problems were found and production was restarted)
The slow DCFC speeds are frustrating on road trips (especially after you experience road trips on a car that charges much faster, like my Ioniq5) but the benefit is that it helps reduce battery degradation. I actually typically charge my Ioniq5 on 150kw chargers because it still charges really fast and doesn’t heat up the battery as much.
Interesting. I'm pretty sure temperature is the problem here, but I wonder whether your 2022 is more consistent because of lower temperatures. On the high end, it seemed like one of the recall software patches actually put some checks in place because of battery overheating, which is a bigger problem for me because of higher summertime temperatures.
Over all, I would like to see the Bolt EV's charging speed improve, but I also understand why it is the speed it is. It's the cost of having a low-cost, long-range battery. Still, GM didn't configure it as ideally as they could have, and I think people would be surprised by the result of something as simple as a 200 A charging socket. At that point, it could have a charging curve similar to the Kona Electric or Niro EV, but I wouldn't expect GM to push it that far.
Great info. 👍
Thanks! Glad it was helpful.
How much is a battery replacement cost?
I'm not sure anyone knows at this point. There would be a core charge, and GM EV techs charge about $250 an hour. So it would probably be $1,500 to $2,000 for labor and then whatever the battery cost minus core. So far, the only batteries that have had to be replaced were still under warranty.
Are you using the 80% software?
Nope.
What software version is your Bolt on?
Are they not replacing batteries under recall?
They are, but my local dealerships are all very slow to replace. Several have told me that they only have the bandwidth to do one or two battery replacements a month, so I figured I'd use the opportunity to keep testing my original battery as long as possible.
Don't get your new battery, I want more long-term degradation data!!!! 😄 My 2019 is at 100K on the car, but we already got our new battery at about 85k.
You’re getting a new battery anyway, right?
Yes. It will be interesting to see how well the new battery does if I baby it.
i thought fast charging between 30%-70% does no damage to li-battery. maybe eric's frequent dc fast charging was helping him.
calculation wise, gm says there is 57 kwh electricity can be used to drive. so i am not sure if eric's calculation has the right denominator.
Fast charging between 30% and 70% significantly reduces battery wear, but it wouldn't eliminate it completely.
The 57 kWh is also not accurate. Yes, it's on a sticker on the case from LG, but it's not the same energy calculation that GM used to come up with 60 kWh. GM's numbers are what is displayed in the car, and even the later 58 kWh that many Bolt EV owners saw displayed new appears to be due to GM's adding a buffer that reduced that original 60 kWh.
@@newscoulomb3705 my point was your fast charging during long distance trips actually does not hurt the battery. calculation wise, gm advertise 10% degradation on 100000miles, or 5.7-6 kwh. and that should be really achievable. If your battery capacity reduce less than that, meaning you are doing ok.
@@yili9725 Ah, I see. But that's still not right if you're assuming that I'm starting most of my DCFC sessions at 30%. Typically, I'm starting my DCFC sessions at
I think 10% deg isn’t pretty good at 150k. maybe at 250k will be serious losses and problems. it seems that battery needs more upgrades. for more reliability degradation at 300k must be 10% and no more
The 10% includes the ~2 kWh that was lost due to reprogramming how the energy was calculated. Either way, I spent most of the first year charging to 100%, which had most of the impact on degradation.
They're not "upgrading" anything. Instead of giving it an upgraded Ultium pack, they are scrapping the Bolt altogether.
They're essentially replacing the Bolt with the Equinox. The hope is that this will only be for the time being, and GM will eventually bring back the Bolt EV or some equivalent compact hatchback.
You have to take into consideration that this is not a scientific test and both the Bolt's and the EA charger's indicated energy use is not 100% accurate. Also i believe even though the battery was rated 60kWh, it was 57, wasn't it?
Yes, this is mostly a data point using available information, which is why I'm fine with rounding the results.
In terms of the Bolt EV battery, it shipped with (and per the energy usage screen had) ~60 kWh of usable capacity. The Bolt EV's energy rating system appears to have been adjusted in early 2017, which is where I said I lost that ~2 kWh. From that point forward, most Bolt EV owners reported about ~58 kWh usable per their display.
The 57 kWh rating was based on a sticker that LG put on the battery case. It appears to be the result of LG using a different method and parameters for measuring capacity, which doesn't align with what the Bolt EV actually displays.
Wow! That’s great news about battery life. How long do you estimate it will be before the battery needs to be replaced? I only ask because EV skeptics tend to always bring up the “you’ll have to replace your battery in just a few short years and it will be very expensive” argument. What are your thoughts on that?
It's going to be hard to tell because my Bolt EV is still slated for a battery replacement under recall. Also, it depends on what metric you use. If we consider 80% of the original capacity the cutoff for automotive use, it's looking like a minimum of 12 years and 300,000 miles before the battery would need to be replaced. At that point, the original battery would probably still have another 10 to 20 years of service life as a "second life" battery before needing to be decommissioned and recycled.
@@newscoulomb3705 interesting. By your estimate, 300k is incredible. I don’t know very many ICE cars that would last that long.
@@vezner Most wouldn't. With 300+ mile batteries, we've now gotten to the point where the battery is going to outlast the life of the car itself.
The 80% figure is very arbitrary. It ultimately depends on what type of driving you do and how good the charging network is.
Someone who uses the car primarily for city driving has no reason to pay attention to the 80% cutoff. Even road tripping, if the charging network is sufficiently good and you're the type of person who needs lots of breaks anyway, 80% the Bolt's capacity is just fine, especially if the road trip is taking place during the summer (as most road trips do).
@@ab-tf5fl Yes, that's true. Realistically, you could keep driving down to 50% or even 60% battery. Some original Nissan LEAF owners did. It's very limiting, but still possible.
Better than the damm leaF. thanks
Is this after you got the replacement battery? The original batteries are at risk of exploding
No, this is the original 6 year old battery with over 150,000 miles on it.
@@newscoulomb3705 wowowow...all i can say is wow. Good to be know and I'm waiting for my 2023 bolt EV 2LT here.
this is all pretty sketchy
there are many things that can affect the range of your EV. Not just the battery, but wheel alignment, a sticky brake caliper, changes to your use of the heater or AC, changes to your driving habits.
The range estimator on the dash board is only guessing how much range is left after a long trip, it can be off in either direction.
You can use an OBD2 reader to read the voltage of each cell in the battery pack. If you treat this like compression on a gas engine, and keep track of it over the years, you should be able to tell when a battery cell is starting to go bad.
But unless you have a standard 200 mile drive that you can use for a test, at the same time of year, at the same temperature, road and traffic conditions, and use the cruise control to maintain the same speed each time you drive it, and take the wind speed into consideration (ask any motorcycle rider with no windshield).... I think you would just be chasing the wind.
When you charge your car the charger will tell you how many KW-Hrs it supplied, but it cannot tell you the charging efficiency of your batteries. They are not 100% efficient - to fully charge a 60kwhr battery pack you might need to put 65 or 66 or 69 KHhrs into it, also depending on temperature.
When the car shows you (on the onstar ap for example) that the battery is 60% or 100% charged, what does that even mean? What is it measuring?
It appears that you don't understand the methodology. The Range Estimator isn't used for any part of the calculation. Even the actual range and miles on the odometer aren't factored.
The only data points are the Energy Used display, battery SOC readings (from multiple sources), and previously collected data using the same methodology.
GM has less battery and drive unit failures than tesla it seems like any way.
They do, especially earlier on. Tesla has improved a lot with their drive units, which used to go out more regularly, but I don't know that I've ever heard of a GM drive unit failing. It's usually a supporting component of some kind.
@@newscoulomb3705 Nice evs are coming from LYRIQ TO BLAZER might be cheaper in used markets.I Already see mech e in the mid 20s.
Replacement? Why? Replace the bad cells and save money.
The cells aren't bad, but they are a potential fire risk. There's no way to confirm that they are bad, so it is safer to simply replace all the cells in the pack.
@@newscoulomb3705 there's a shop in the DMV area that will test all the cells and replace bad ones. I've had it done. Auto Tech Service in DC.
@@livingthedash6727 Perhaps, but GM dealerships won't do that under the full recall. In my opinion, it's better to just take the free replacement battery and not worry about it.
It doesn't work like that, not on these massive packs. Unbalanced cells will forever be unhappy cells.
GM EVS seems to be most Reliable
Welcome to EV Life, cold temp,drop in range, too hot drop....too much of a headache!
Those things affect gas cars, too. If people are forgetting that, it explains why I see so many abandoned gas cars on the side of the freeway. Sure, some had overheated or caught on fire, but I guess the rest just ran out of fuel. 🤷♂
@@newscoulomb3705 Good points. All I'm saying is EV's are the future but there are problems for long roadtrips,combined with Temp impact is not practical for the majority. Design EV with 400 mile range with min drop in range, MSRP mid 30K you have a game changer. Until then I'm happy with my 38mpg average ICE.
@@kv1930 You'd have a game changer long before that. A new Bolt EV (not mine, with over 150,000 miles) would already meet the needs of a majority of drivers (according to DOT data, fewer than half of all drivers ever take long trips of 200 miles or more).
The sticking point is still price. The median new car purchase price is still less than $30,000, and most people still can't (or won't) buy cars new. Price a 200 to 250 mile EV at $25,000 MSRP, and you'll have your game changer.
@@newscoulomb3705 I agree! Hopefully I can be in good health for another 15 years and go EV!
So much easier to pull up to a gas pump .
Sure, but you can't grocery shop or sit down to eat while you're filling up with gas.
Where is the gas pump while my car is parked and I'm sleeping? So much easier to never go to a gas pump and mess around with card skimmers and broken pumps. I'll pass hard on that nonsense.