I am unsure as to why, but youtube keeps disabling comments on this video. I think it's just a glitch, but I have had to manually reset the comments back to open 3 times within the first hour. Sorry to any comments that have been lost, especially if they included case suggestions.
*I would love to hear you do a story on the murder of Girly Chew Hossencofft.. The husband, and his girlfriend, are absolute creepy lunatics!* Would you please consider?
Thank you so much Mr. Dreading for doing my recommendation. I'm literally in tears right now. You rock. I am forever a true fan.... Thank you for the shout out! Omg I literally can't even deal with it!🤣🤣🤣😍😍😍😘😘😘😘😘
@@RubiiMoon Tahnia, thank you for recommending this case to Dreading. Ive never heard of it. I cried the whole time for everyone involved. I love the respect and excellent writing on this channel.
@@BucketHeadianHagg All I did was bring this case out to fresh eyes and recommend it to a brilliant story choreographer? Is that a thing? Well it is now lol. Mr. Dreading does top notch work. And a lot of us have been here since day one.. when he was telling us about the horrors that took place in a little town called Celebration. So it's no surprise that he would knock this case out the park!! I'm just floored he listened to me, and you know what? About a half hour ago, someone else had to tell me he posted this video.. I had no clue.. So since he truly listens to his followers and his fans it's our job to make sure he knows that we appreciate everything that he does. All of his research is beyond anything I could. Let's make sure we let him know that we support the hell out of him. Keep up the amazing work Mr. Dreading! Xoxo (I'm literally still blushing he shouted me out)
the fact that these parents just decided to stop therapy and medication full stop. their child has diagnosed depression… it’s unreal. mental health needs to be discussed openly so events like this can be avoided.
Exactly. Just like they knew he had learning difficulties yet decide to up root him, take him to a foreign country where he didn't speak the language, then stick him in first grade knowing that he missed out on all of the educational and social building blocks kindergarten provides🤯
I mean, this is stupid, but we can't forget It is 1998, people did not understand depression like we do today. People used to think depression was a easy thing, that you would take some pills and the illness Will Go away. His parents didn't know. Putting him in a spanish speaking School while they knew his struggles was stupid though
@@PutinsMommyNeverHuggedHim aren’t you never supposed to stop taking a medication unless your doctor says so, regardless of what it is or what condition it’s treating? i thought this was a common disclaimer even in the 90’s. like yeah SSRI’s have strong withdrawal symptoms, but would parents just stop giving their son heart medication if he had a heart condition and it seemed to go away one day? also, they had plenty of time to get him back to counseling since he clearly needed help after he stopped prozac. like man idk the red flags were all there.
Seeing his journal say the only reason he’s alive is hope, once the hope is gone people die. Then hearing his dad telling him he’s hopeless… that must have crushed him.
@@Liviloveeee03 if you happened to be born with the same mental health issues, and were raised and conditioned in the same way he was then you would also be 'pure evil'. But it's likely you were happy and healthy, had a good social life, good relationships with your family and did well in school so you turned out normal like the rest of us
All he needed was support from his dad and he had legit schizophrenia that went untreated bc he was too afraid to tell the therapist in front of his mom that he heard voices.. that alone plus the other factors must have been horrifying for him. Not justifying his actions but he needed help and could have gotten it, his dad really should have went to therapy with him as well..
Hearing him sob and confess to horrible things in that small, childlike voice breaks my mom heart to pieces. What he did was awful and I feel for the families of those he hurt and took away. But this boy was suffering and practically begged for help. He was failed
I'm right there with you. My heart breaks for this poor boy who just wanted help. Listening to him cry his heart out as he recounted what he'd done makes me want to just scoop him up & hug him & let him know that he IS lovable. Poor baby lived thinking he's not worthy of love for so long & my mom heart just wants to make it better, even though that's not always possible. I give the detective massive props for being so gentle with Kip. Even after being charged at with a knife he remains calm & keeps his voice gentle with this scared boy. I know what he did is truly horrible but I still feel horrible for that scared little boy inside him that just wanted to be understood & loved the way he is. I'm so glad that, as a society, we've made major improvements on how mental health is handled. There's no longer such a negative connotation with needing therapy or medication to help & I'm so grateful for that.
He didn't want help, if he actually wanted help for himself and others he would've told someone he had homicidal ideation, he's a fuckin psycho.@@p_nutmama0724
Kip clearly had a treatable, medical illness. He sounded like a dream patient, improving immediately on Prozac and with only a few sessions of therapy. He probably could have had a decent, successful life beyond high school had his parents just kept on but I think they let stigma guide them. Tragic and avoidable.
True! Whether he had undiagnosed schizophrenia does not mean he wasn't depressed and anxious too. People on here keep saying "it was the 90's" and "people didn't know about mental illness back then". That's absolute nonsense. The parents ignored medical advice. They were negligent beyond belief.
@@Aster_Risk One thing I won't deny is that people cared way more about "keeping up pretences" than real family issues. It was all about reputation. If your children were mentally ill, that meant you were judged because you could be carrying those traits. This story teaches us that we shouldn't judge others based on anything but merit and trust. It was silly of the parents to think they could "cure" their child just to save their image (or "disappointment"). They sacrificed his sanity for popularity... And where did that bring them? They certainly didn't deserve what happened to them... But that poor child was anxious, depressed, hopeless, helpless and abandoned. Perhaps the parents didn't understand that, but the therapist and doctor did. They shouldn't have shrugged off clinical advice. By doing that, they sealed their child and their own fates.
And Bill gave him a nine-mil. and the rifle? I think that was criminally negligent. Bill was probably a gun enthusiast, which was where Kip was getting his ideas. Also, their house was A-frame and it would make me crazy to have a slanty-ceilinged bedroom where I had to walk bent over. His gf probably dumped him because of the w/drawals.
What I don't understand is why his parents didn't seek professional help for him again once he started displaying instability. They already knew how effective it was the first time around.
He’s one of the few people you’ve covered where I’ve actually believed he was sorry for his actions. He’s the only one who has shown genuine remorse and I wish he could have a do over.
Well that is IF looking down and crying is a sign of "genuine remorse". At the time he did these things he thought thru it. He waited and slept overnight in the home with his dead parents and probly was not crying all night, he was thinking about what he would do the next day. He was plotting his next move and obviously not feeling remorse during that more than 12 hours. He had PLENTY of time to call cops or express remorse or stop himself. His remorse didn't kick in until he was in the hands of law enforcement and heros at the school brave enough to stop him. During interrogation is when he knew he had thrown away his life and many others. I do feel sadness for him --that he didn't get help earlier. Am sure that is what he feels. He realizes that his childhood is over and he is not the hero of the story and he won't ever have his parents - who did everything for him. Yep, I think these are real tears, but I don't think it's from real remorse for what he did to his parents nor at school, it's fear of his own situation and his own future, not the remorse for his many victims and the lives that were negatively affected.
@@beverlycharles6534 Did you disregard the part where we was writing down all his “messed up” feelings and thoughts and how he needed help? How he didn’t want to hurt people? His parents created him, and are fully to blame. He was a FRESHMAN IN HIGH SCHOOL, not even old enough to legally consent to sex or see an R-rated movie on his own.
@@SteeleHeller some people just cherry pick details to maintain a position of emotional judgement, and disregard everything to the contrary. His journal is a decent part of this video, so IMO people have to deliberately ignore that, and his age to totally see him as evil.
As someone who works in early childcare, it was so hard to hear obvious signs of dyslexia with no intervention. His parents had no idea how to adjust their parenting style to him and it ended up with these devastating consequences
@@patriciamaeda852 In the mid nineties such diagnoses weren't as commonplace - especially if one comes from a small town or a lesser health-literate location.
@@patriciamaeda852 Now we know what to look for and what forms different learning disabilities look like. This was not the case back in the mid 80s, when he was starting school and showing what would be very obvious signs today. And back then, really only experts and doctors might have recognized it- teachers weren't trained to notice symptoms of learning disabilities and most parents definitely wouldn't know. The fact that they knew something was wrong and continued to insist on testing shows that they actually did notice something was wrong and it wasn't him just "not getting it". People today take the fact that there is instant access to information and it is widespread for granted. Back then, you probably wouldn't have known unless you happened to know someone who had already been diagnosed with it or happened across the right book.
My parents did the same to my older sister. So did her teachers. She was told so often by so many people that she was lazy and stupid that her self esteem was irreparably damaged for the rest of her life. She and my younger sister were diagnosed with cross dominance, a condition similar to dyslexia when the elder was 17 and the younger was 10. The damage was done. Meanwhile, I did not have it. I do have mild dyscalculia. It makes higher math impossible for me. Anything with letters and numbers and/or extra symbols doesn’t make sense to me. But the hardest thing was that from a young age I had to dumb down everything I did that was competitive like word games or math games on family game night. I had better spatial awareness so other games and puzzles, I had to sit turns out so they wouldn’t feel bad if I won a game. We had family game night every Sunday. We referred to it as enforced family fun. Only my younger sister enjoyed it because we were forced to always, always let her win. You can imagine what she’s like as an adult. I was also diagnosed with hyper activity. Even in those days they gave you mild stimulants like coffee or strong tea. All through middle school a group of students went to the guidance office twice a day for a coffee break. Nobody knew why so it was treated like a privilege for good behavior. I actually have bipolar 2 disorder and have had since a very young child. Diagnosed when I was 52. I had anorexia for 15 years. I have PTSD. My mother was physically abusive only when my dad was around. It’s really hard to grow up that way.
Did you listen? He locked the gun away and they went to shooting practice together. It was a bonding thing between them, so yes, good job dad, not in a sarcastic manner. This piece of work already had a secret gun, he would have killed regardless of what his dad bought him. Rip reasoning 🤦♀
mental health professional here. stopping medication and therapy when you feel better is unfortunately too common a trap people fall into. I try to tell my clients to think of mental health like a flower. You water it every day until it blooms, but you wouldn't stop watering it after that, because then it would wilt. So you have to keep watering it to maintain the beauty of the flower. Remember to keep watering your flowers everyone.
But medications isn’t the best way I think always I think you should always try to look if you can take less in a bigger period of time medication just isn’t good I think for no one it would be good to be 50 years on anti depressants only if it is really necessary but what I see a lot is kids froom 12 on ritalin and for there whole life on this shit bcs they dont know else it’s not the best option
@@1esp1es98 Kids taking ritalin for adhd is very different from suicidal kids with paranoid schizophrenia taking medication, paranoid schizphrenia needs treatment with medication, some mental illnesses you can treat without medication but severe ones often need medication
I’m a 16 yr old idiot and even I could tell he was dyslexic from where they said he was good at math and science and bad at reading. He seems like someone that could have EASILY been helped if everyone around him wasn’t completely incompetent. His dad was out here saying “we’ve gotta send him to a wilderness camp, nothing else has worked 🥺” when therapy and anti depressants worked EXCELLENTLY. (Side note: I got changed to one anti depressant to another under medical supervision slowly and correctly and I felt AWFUL. I can’t imagine how he felt)
Speaking as a 45 year old idiot, you’re smarter than you give yourself credit for. He was clearly dyslexic and his parents, while well-intentioned, were completely clueless to help him. Having gotten off anti-depressants cold turkey, it was awful.
@@carborundorum try going cold turkey in a cold cell on a freezing concrete slab with hand cuffs, belly chains and leg shackles on with no kind of mattress or blanket or pillow. on top of that, every few hours someone pokes there head in and laughs at you. try going through this for 72 hours plus at the height of your detox. Now that is a very special kind of hell!
The way they needed the older sister to keep the family together feels so relatable and sad. Parents shouldn’t rely on their child to take care of the whole family.
My gf is the eldest in her family and I think it’s just how it goes with bad parents sometimes. Especially with girls. I’m an only child though so idk I’m just guessing.
the parents were dead, it didn't seem like to me in this case where she was forced to fill that role until when there was nobody else left. maybe i missed something but i did not hear much on her until after her letter to the judge which is the moment my eyes started to tear.
100% this. Relying on a child to carry the burden of an adult parent’s responsibility. I’m glad they eventually stepped up and went to therapy. But I’m sad that they just went back to the “disappointment” method when things were going well. Why change the strategy when it was working? Furthermore the “disappointment” didn’t work before, so why go back to something that didn’t work? I know it’s easy to say for us on the outside looking in. It’s not to vilify the parents. Mistakes were made. we can all learn a lot from those mistakes. My heart breaks for Kip, hearing those journal entries, feeling so broken and alone. Feeling that disappointing his parents was the WORST thing in the world. Worse than killing them, himself, and all those people. No one should have to feel that way 😔😔 we should feel safe going to our parents. Unfortunately for some of us, that’s a luxury we don’t have. and all the shooting victims and their families! Simply catastrophic. I wish schools had more mental health resources, counselors, classes, workshops. Hopefully, some day soon.
This is one of those cases that just boggles the mind. This isn’t a spoiled narcissistic kid who does what he wants with no empathy or remorse. He needed help that he never got. Listening to his sobs is heartbreaking.
Breaks my heart for this kid. This all could have been avoided. He needed help and support from his parents and he never received it until it was far too late.
I love that the parents noticed the kid's improvement after beginning medication and then freaked out about his subsequent downward spiral into delinquency after stopping the medication and never once thought "hmm.. maybe we should try that medication again".
@DNK Totally agree. The USA's obsession with guns has gone too far. There are countries in the world who have banned gun ownership except for specific reasons, and they don't have this level of violence. Only the US is so self-destructive. I'm glad you made it ok. Like Kip said in his diary, he lived on hope. Until it ran out. May you always have hope!
The parents were clearly not very empathetic toward Kip. They viewed him as "the bad kid" and believed that he could become like "the good kid" (his sister) with a small fix. This is sadly a pretty common abusive family dynamic. His dyslexia caused him to under-perform in school, and his family believed that performance in school was a moral good, which meant that under-performance was a moral bad. Even at the end his father believed he was bad, and everything he did to act out was only confirming that belief.
“He’s starting to act the same way he did before meds and counseling and I know we stopped the meds and counseling that were helping him but now that his behavior has returned, we have no idea how to help him…”
Thought victim blaming was a bad thing? It was 24 years ago, they can’t look any of this stuff up online and get the resources they would today. Also sounds like the doctor their son was seeing did not at all warn them about Prozac and sudden withdrawal, maybe it wasn’t even known at the time, I don’t know.
@@GG-kn2se I was around at that time and, yes, the side effects of stopping an antidepressant cold turkey was well known in the medical community AND any decent psychiatrist or doctor would have clearly this info relayed to patients. I was placed on my first antidepressant for my panic disorder in 1997 by my family doctor and that information was in all the packaging and shared with me by my doctor. I’m not victim blaming his parents…they did make some mistakes throughout Kip’s life, but I do believe they deeply loved him and were trying to do their best.
In his diary when he wrote “my eyes hurt. They hurt so fucking bad. They feel like they want to crawl out of my head”, that was definitely a withdrawal symptom. I’ve felt that and if I didn’t know that it was because of withdrawals, then I probably would’ve become hopeless too. This kid was going through mental pain but also physical pain from the withdrawals. It would’ve come on slowly so he would’ve not notice it as different. Slowly he’s in pain, homicidal and suicidal. I can’t imagine his torment.
Seriously, SSRI withdrawals are BRUTAL. Having unmedicated schizophrenia AND SSRI withdrawals? Must have been hell. I bet he felt like it was just a new symptom and he would feel like this forever. This was so fucking preventable. The pain this kid went through must have been unreal. I wish it didn't end the way it did.
You can hear when he's crying that its not just emotional, he is in physical pain. SSRI withdrawls blend the 2 and it feels like you're in a boxing ring getting your clock cleaned. Add aggressive, hateful voices on top of that, along with the chaos of teenage hormones, and access to guns.... perfect recipe for catastrophe. I feel for him.
@@emmalynch3995 I’ve been on tramadol for years and gone through withdrawals from it twice, it is no joke. I feel like I want to chew my skin, I feel like every bone in my body is aching. Im also on venlafaxine for depression/anxiety. I didn’t realise until after I was put on it that it can be extremely difficult to come off, because of the side effects. One of them being what is described as “brain zaps”. Wish I had just stayed on the other antidepressant
SSRI Withdrawals are fucking hell, i got off of them for a while but it made me literally look as if i started balding and i frequently felt as if my brain was being shocked . Fortunately my hair grew back and the shocks ended.
@goingsnakespiritchaser the kid is a deranged psychopath and his parents couldn't have done anything more other than keep him on the mind numbing meds.
A therapist who looks at brain scans says that kips brain was THE MOSt damaged physically of anyone he had ever seen young or old in his career. He said he either had SEVERE HYPOXIA at birth or a SEVERE infection causing brain damage.
For everybody who's watching this and who's deaf and depends on the subtitles. I want to clarify that there's no laughter or music like it says. The Boy is crying all the time and is completely desperate for what he has done. He can hardly talk. The detective's talking very quiet with him trying to figure out what went on in his head, why this all happened
I’ve got good hearing and was using headphones.. what a struggle. I get it was 1998? I think but it’s like they recorded it under the water. The subtitles barely got me through it too. Lol
@@bravo795mp , you got a simulation of what it's like to be hard of hearing or have auditory processing disorder The best metaphor for auditory processing disorder, as I experience it, comes from audio mixing Ideally, a song will be mixed with different elements in different audio channels. One channel for lead vocals, one channel for backup vocals, one channel for melody, one channel for percussion, etc. But sometimes a song is mixed poorly, like one of The Stooges' albums (I think Raw Power). I remember reading about how Iggy Pop gave the audio to David Bowie, and Bowie was horrified to find that all the vocals were in one channel and all the instruments were in another channel. That was it, no other channels. My brain with auditory processing disorder gets overwhelmed by multiple sounds. It mixes everything into one or two channels, making it difficult to discern specifics (e.g., the beat of a song amongst the vocals and melody, speech amongst background noise).
@@bravo795mp english is not my first language, so imagine my struggle trying to hear that interview lol but i think i did pretty fine, i could understand almost everything and even noticed the mistakes in the subtitles. I'm proud of myself for that lol
I don’t normally feel sympathy or empathy for these types of cases ( involving the harm of kids and schools ) but I can’t help but feel like screaming about how this never would have happened if someone had just taken the time to listen to him. This wasn’t some sociopathic spoiled brat who wanted to be “ famous “ but a kid genuinely crying out for help.
It’s true though, his parents essentially shamed him for being different from his sister and basically casted him as a problem child instead of looking for proper help for many years of his life, if he had continued therapy and stayed on his medicine this might’ve been avoided. He was failed at so many points in his life.
@@toast3591 knowledge about mental health was nowhere near as comprehensive or accessible in the 70s, 80s, and 90s like it is now. the moment i heard about his struggles in school i assumed he had dyslexia, but i can see how parents during that era would A) have no idea what that is, and B) be completely at a loss for why their two children could be so vastly different. it's pretty obvious from this video that his parents *did* try to help him through therapy, bonding over guns which he claimed to be cathartic and not violent in nature, and medication.
@@toast3591 no they didnt. They did no different than most parents in that time would have. I have a brother with schizoaffective disorder & remember the beginning years of it for him that started around the time he was in 6th-7th grade & was all the way going when he was in the 8th grade in 1989/90 (i would have been in 5th) . There are already hormonal & other changes in preteens/teens, actual behavior problems & just normal teen rebellion already then you throw in mental heath- mental health was always the very last thing looked into back then (if ever). If my brothers mental illness wasnt as severe(violent) as it was he likely wouldnt have recieved any help back then either. He was already expelled from school for assaulting one of his best friends since 1st grade (think his 10th grade year) by the time he finally got a specific diagnosis. Then it was another good 5yrs of trying different medications before he was finally stabilized on a routine- one that finally didnt make his psychosis/violent outbursts even worse. They didnt "shame" him? Yeah he was treated different, all kids are in one way or another. And he did do things to put hisself in the "problem child" category. Parents arent mind readers & while in therapy he didnt even reveal his worst illness- the one that includes the homicidal ideation trait
@@6235river Yes!! Omg!! I thought dyslexia at the beginning too, my son started having trouble in 2nd grade and teacher's labeled it as being "bad" then I pushed to get him tested and guess what... He was dyslexic 😲 shocker 😄
I noticed Kip had a very high level of self-awareness. He wanted help so badly but he just couldn't get it for himself... This case just hurts to even think about.
Can't agree more with this sentence. He seemed to have a certain level of self-awareness AND the idea that what he was going through is not normal. I hope people see this case as a call to action on how to make things better and not let so many people slip through the cracks...
this is utterly heartbreaking. I’ve never believed that a perpetrator was remorseful more than kip. if only he got help sooner and stuck to the meds, maybe they’d all still be here
Giving a person, let alone a child, access to guns when it’s known that they are struggling mentally, emotionally, and behaviorally is never a good idea.
And just imagine that in the United States we have enough REGISTERED guns floating around to arm every man, woman, child, and all betwixt and between at least once. Now imagine all the guns we DON'T know about added on top. And then we wonder why everyone is shooting everyone.
Oh no, that sounds exactly like something my mom would do and has done in a grocery store. It was awkward. Good thing Kip's experience isn't universal growing up in Oregon 👍🏻
Bill: "I'm so glad my son is finally doing better with the help of therapy and medication" Also Bill: "I'm going to make sure my son stops all this therapy and medication nonesene"
I could tell by the way he cried, there was a tremendous amount of remorse. Most shooters don't have this remorse, but I feel Kip really loved his family and felt bad he did this. Peace be with you
Although MANY young people who commit awful, violent crimes do NOT suffer with debilitating mental illnesses we don’t often know which individuals do. It’s extremely rare to see balanced sympathetic documentaries like this. Countless true crime channels (AND television shows) never go into this detail.
As someone that was born and raised in Oregon, I was always told that Kip was evil and an anomaly. It’s so heartbreaking to see the reality of the situation. This can happen to so many kids in our society and the only way to stop it is to acknowledge the truth of the situations in the past. Kip was severely struggling and I’m glad to know that his sister still stands by him to this day.
Same! i literally JUST had to explain it to someone. i live in Springfield so ive heard rhis stuff forever and it wasn't until i learned about it myself on my own research that i knew the full story. They make him out to be a boogeyman here when compared to any other school shootings, this one is the most tragic as his entire life was also a struggle, he wasnt some spoiled brat who decided to to it for attention and had lack of care for others, he was so unwell and was crying out for help in the most tragic and violent way possible
I went to a school in Springfield where a few of the faculty were deeply connected to this story and were victims on the tragedy. They were so careful about how they discussed the situation. Not what could be said about everywhere else.
My family had just moved to the Eugene/Springfield area a few years prior. Infuriating that the story we were always told is so wildly different. My sister is Kip's age and she was struggling with medication induced depression when nobody understood why at the same time, Accutane! 20 years ago the mental healthcare in Lane county was a joke, I wonder if it's improved?
@@ghoulishtoad the columbine shooters were made fun of & bullied. They had struggles. You only feel bad for this kid because the narrator was sympathetic and presented Kip in a sympathetic way. He killed his parents, ok, that would fit his crazy/being a dissapointment thing... but why go to the school to kill people? They had nothing to do with it. He was pissed. Said so in his journal in this video. Think for yourself
As horrible as what he did is, and my heart guess out to the victims and their families, I also feel terrible for Kip. He was practically BEGGING for help, and his parents flat out ignored it, and chose to take him off of the meds that were helping him. I also want to point out how amazing the detective that talked to him was. He was great at trying to keep him calm, speaking to him with some compassion, without coddling, while also being the information needed.
I agree this investigator did a great job. Keeping Kip talking & not judging him. I know it’s his job. But he kept his voice at a gentle tone. Didn’t come across as accusing Kip. This child just breaks my heart. And the children he killed families. Will never get over their loss. Neither will his sister. She’s basically lost her entire family. He most likely will spend the rest of his life in jail. 😢
Dude. Kip was plucked out of struggling in the US and thrown into not knowing a NEW LANGUAGE in a school that couldn't support him. WTF. Most selfish parents I've heard of in a long time (well, other than the cases where parents kill their children for sake of their own social lives)
I was so conflicted throughout this entire video. Hearing Kip's backstory and then his sobs and regret was heartbreaking, and knowing the shooting could've been avoided is equally as upsetting. He was clearly begging for help and had it taken away before he got the chance to fully heal. But the victims' testimonies had me torn. Their life was ripped apart in a matter of hours, and Kip's actions left them with mental and physical scars that will never go away. Knowing Kip's backstory, their testimonies may seem harsh. However, I kept reminding myself of the consequences they will have to deal with for the rest of their lives, for simply existing in an environment they thought was safe.
It was especially brutal when the one kid that tackled him compared Kip to a rabid dog and asked why he hasn't been put down. Jesus Christ. I get that their lives changed forever in those moments but I can't help but feel bad that he wanted to die already and this kid said he should have been put down. It was a self fulfilling prophecy but I 1000000% blame his parents for this outcome.
I completely understand the victims hate, anger, and pain for what Kip did. I just don’t think Kip was fully responsible because of his severe mental illnesses and the fact that he was still a child (understanding of consequences are not fully realized at that age because the brain is not fully developed). He was wronged by being taken off his medication and stopping therapy so abruptly, so to act like this was a completely sane and stable individual that understood his thought process and actions is unfathomable to me. I understand the victims are speaking from their pain and not from logic, reason, or understanding-but I really hate the stigma of severe mental illness and how misunderstood it is. This is why Kip killed his parents and those kids-because of that same stigma. People don’t realize it, but painting people like Kip as just evil instead of taking the time to understand mental illness and the impact it can have on people and children is what allows these kinds of crimes to continue. We can’t help mentally ill people get better if we say they are crazy or evil, and it just perpetuates the cycle of abuse and violence. I wonder what Kip’s victims think about him today after all the knowledge we have of mental illness.
When you said the parents used disappointment as discipline, that made something click in my head, about my own childhood. I always wondered why I felt so hurt by my parents and it's because they did the same thing. Just shows how profound it is getting those wires crossed without support. Luckily I had other family members that were less disappointed and got where I was coming from
During that police interview all I could hear was the sound of years of pent up mental issues and the sound of ultimate sadness. There are some people who are legit monsters. This kid was just a broken boy who broke the world around him. It's heartbreaking to hear that interview. It made me cry.
There is a reason for the cop asking those first questions "When you bought that gun yesterday, did you buy it with the intention of hurting someone?" Then the kid said his brain doesn't work right. Next question "Did you know that buying the gun was the right thing to do, or the wrong thing to do?" His response... I knew it was the wrong thing to do. That totally kills any chance of insanity or not being of such intelligence to distinguish right from wrong. I truly believe that whenever this kid got into trouble it just pissed him off. He was not raised right period. Only child syndrome was a factor here. He is a spoiled little pecker head period.
God this case sounds so frustrating so far. At every turn there feels like huge failings on the part of everyone. It's like staring at an oncoming train
@@DaylightDisinfectant As much I don't want to victim blame, I can't help but feel that had they better understood him, none of this would've happened. Especially with his therapy.
@@0uttaS1TE you’re crazy, you say you don’t want to victim blame but never mentioned the four people that this piece of garbage killed or the 20 plus he injured.
@@0uttaS1TE His parents tried reaching out to him, well his mom mostly did. He's not the victim in this! He also got a sawed-off shotgun from his friends.
@@Neku628 I never said he was a victim in this. I said it was frustrating, and that there were huge failings on the part of everyone on how to prevent this, himself included. It is a cavalcade of bad decisions.
Even now, a lot of people would see how the interrogator operated as weak and going soft on a killer. That he managed to do this 25 years ago AND be in law enforcement? Imagine how rare that kind of person is NOW, and then consider how much rarer in ‘98.
Especially after the kid tried to stab him too. He handled everything so perfectly. I know his job was to get as much info out as possible to most likely be used against him in court, and cops aren't your friends, but his tone and words were perfect and exactly what kip needed in that moment.
Just hearing this for the first time…. I AM AMAZED at the true professionalism of this investigator. Don’t ever change the way you sir! You are a true asset to your Dept. God bless you and ALL OF THE individuals involved.
I would disagree I think his parents did about as ,uch as they could given the circumstances if anything I think he was more so a victim of his era where society as whole didn't know jack or shit about ,ental health or how things like excess stress, societal pressure, bullying etc. could exacerbate mental health issues and due to the music of that era teenage angst was at a level not scene in decades prios his parents made mistakes but they also weren't abusive physically or mentally did take measures to try and help their son and ultimately were guilty of not being informed on a topic A LOT of parents of that time were informed on
I couldn't finish this one. Hearing him sob about how he loved his parents and felt he'd ruined their lives... Just so sad. A parent's disappointment can be the most horrible thing. You feel like you hurt them just by existing. Especially if you try your best to make them proud and no matter what you just seem to make them more and more upset. If Kip was a psychopath he wouldn't CARE if his parents were disappointed. He obviously made a terrible wrong choice, but I do feel this could have been prevented and it's so sad that he couldn't have kept going to therapy, as I think his parents (while well meaning) didn't understand mental illness like depression let alone schizophrenia. I'm really glad Kip is doing better now. In a way he's actually happier in prison than he ever was before. And the amount of empathy he feels for victims... Good for him. Not excusing what he did. But I'm glad he's doing good things for others now.
We don't like to admit it but sometimes parents don't love their child. How "well meaning" could those parents have been? Stopping meds and therapy while buying the kid a gun. His parents may have been victims but I think they were horrible the way they treated this poor kid.
@@auntieclara1811 That, and also sometimes parents have best intentions at heart even ..but don't go about it the right way for that child to understand properly, and the child ends up fd up for life. I'm one of such "kids" (not a kid anymore, struggling to keep sane). I'm on that part now where he's crying and came to see if the comments vilified him much. This kid deserved proper psychiatric care, but instead they gave him guns. Why why why keep rifles near your depressed child? Were the both of them (and everyone else, cousins, neighbors, etc) that unaware of his mental state....which is even visible in his eyes in that picture on screen... Just heartbreaking. Thinking if I can last through the interrogation.. his mental & emotional damage is so painful to hear. It's like hearing myself... in a universe where I could do something like this.
Also, people are allowed to feel sympathy for this boy, AND STILL and still think his actions were wrong and mourn the victims. My heart still breaks for Kip, but I also know his actions were terrible.
My sympathy ends when someone harms other people unrelated to their trauma. Millions of people have the horrible combination of untreated mental illness and a shitty home life. But you know what they don't do? Buy a gun a shoot at innocent people.
You gotta feel for the sister. Losing all of her family at once, all the hate being thrown at her brother, and probably feel like she could've stopped it in some way. It's sad, but she is also strong not hating her brother for what he had done, but forgiving. Probably somethign most families wouldn't do if in the same situation.
it's beyond heartbreaking; i hope she doesn't blame herself in any way. it really sounds like she already did more than a child could possibly be asked to do in such a situation.
I remember the media being all over her, in Hawaii. This also occurred just after Oregon had passed a law stating that parents can be held accountable for their minor children’s crimes, such as this. I remember wondering about the wisdom of this law considering if they hadn’t been killed, they may likely have become the “poster children” for this law. They did, in fact, teach Kip how to use the gun. These parents did do the best they could. They tried getting help for him any way they could.
@@michelleb7399 I would argue the parents here did far from "the best they could". They gave a mentally ill child guns. they cut his meds cold turkey without listening to a doctor. they stopped the therapy that was helping him. They didn't do nearly enough for this child, and far from their best
That ending was the most bitter sweet conclusion for someone who committed such a horrendous crime. He was trapped in that mental prison and no one understood him until it was already too late. But not only did he found himself in prison thanks to the psychiatrists that he was denied in youth, Kip is now advocating for minors to have a second chance in life
Telling your kid you’re disappointed in them as a form of punishment is really a recipe for disaster. You should never withhold love from them. Especially over things like grades/ interactions with classmates. It’s important to know that your parents will always love you so you feel like you can tell them things even if they’re not good. No wonder he felt so isolated and kept so much to himself. Poor kid.
lol The worst thing his parents ever did to him was tell him they were disappointed in his shitty behavior. You sound like you'd be offended by almost anything and consider someone not waving back at you as a personal attack.
@@distantandvague Kip went his entire life struggling with undiagnosed illnesses and disabilities and that I relate to HEAVILY. I don't think his parents were horrible people but they just could not adjust their learning style to Kip. This made Kip feel out of control throughout his whole life and I can also speak from experience that when one feels like you're a constant dissapointment to everyone around you. You're going to act out, it doesn't excuse anything but his parents were negligent, they let their stigma of mental health get in the way. A parent or guardian telling you, you're a dissapointment hurts more than anything especially when you're dealing with untreated mental illnesses.
@@distantandvague …. Relax lmao. I said using disappointment as a form of punishment isn’t a good idea. I’m not saying that telling your kids you’re disappointed them is a bad thing. Seeing as you went right for a personal attack, I would assume you’re a sensitive little guy
I think it's the shame associated with having disappointed one's loved one's that leads one to withhold love from themselves that can be the most damaging. This kid seemed to lack self worth. I think it was due to being bullied by his peers and his mental health issues, rather than his upbringing.
Sounds oddly like you're advocating for Kip, but like that VICTIM said, I'm not buying it, rich boy with loving parents, popular at school, on the football team, had access to therapy & meds, & still chose to hurt others. I've dealt with mind-shattering life-altering experiences again & again, & through it all I've kept my cool. I've wanted to hurt myself, but never did. I've NEVER wanted to hurt others, because I was raised to believe that's not right & it's not fair. There's NO gd excuse.
@@erkl8823 clearly you didn't listen well to this video. They completely stopped therapy and meds as soon as the script was over. He was not popular and was severely bullied. and had alot of issues with mental health that noone addressed. Just because you haven't struggled with actual self harm or thoughts of hurting others doesn't mean others don't.
@@erkl8823 sounds oddly like you’re advocating for improper treatment of those with mental health problems. You cannot speak for everyone and just because you’re depressed and dealt with things doesn’t mean everyone else should handle it the same as you. You sound like you’re shaming those who have self harmed and shaming those who have more trouble controlling their emotions which is the exact type of treatment that Kip got which pushed him to do these things. You should not be watching videos like this if you cannot take a step back and learn from them.
His interview was one of the hardest ones I’ve ever had to listen to. To hear his crimes and mental state and then the voice of a scared child was just heartbreaking. Mental health is so important and this child deserved help.
i’ve been on prozac since I was 15 (i’m 21 now) and it literally saved my life. i’ve tried going off of it slowly, cold turkey, and even replacing it and every time I start to feel “unstable”. that’s the word I always use when speaking with my therapists/doctors. it feels like the tiniest thing could make me explode in sadness, anger, hopelessness, etc I was forced to stop cold turkey because I lost my health insurance when I turned 18 and I came very close to ending my life. I can’t imagine how frustrating it was to have his parents make him stop taking the medication that was giving him a sense of stability
i knew he was 14 or 15 when the shooting occurred, but HEARING how young he was in the interrogation made me cry. he was a child. it doesn't excuse what he did. it just really hit me since i work with kids.
Talking about it after the fact made me cry. He sounds so young and broken. I told my fiance earlier that Kip sounds like a child when he cries...which is not a belittling statement from me, because he was a child. His voice hadn't even fully changed. Pile age on top of mental health problems and it's heartbreakingly sad all around.
this kid wasn't evil. he did awful acts, awful crimes, but he was not acting out of sadism or self-interest. He had a mental illness that made him think removing people from his life was saving them from his (believed) incurable wrongness. I taught kids his age and they are so fucking young. It's hard enough dealing with mental illness as an adult, let alone a kid with an underdeveloped brain. And in some ways, it's harder dealing with shit like this when you're intelligent, because it makes it harder to lie to yourself or ignore signals from people around you that reinforce your own misperceptions. This case is just so fucking sad for all the victims and the perpetrator. This didn't have to be his life. You can tell he had true remorse for his actions and didn't want things to be like this.
@@gayvinmcginnes2508 I agree with you. For some reason, he popped into my head last night. I hope he's doing all right. It's awful what happened, but I truly believe what he did wasn't out of malice.
I always find it interesting when the word "excuse" is used when referring to crimes like this. Despite popular belief, people who struggle with mental disorders can't control their thoughts. I'm not saying they can't reach out for help, but in this boy's case, he just wasn't mature enough to know who to reach out to. It's all just one big tragedy all around. 💔
They stopped his meds as he was better? Nice to see the thought of ‘maybe he is better due to the meds so he needs to continue them’ didn’t cross their minds at all. This really highlights the need for better education regarding mental health treatment/education for everyone.
And especially stopping the meds cold turkey instead of weaning him off of them, and stopping therapy at the same time. This in no way excuses what he did, but for people to accuse him of faking the mental illness despite all the evidence to the contrary isn't helping anything.
@@KelseyGoesKaBoom Exactly! Any physician will tell you that the most dangerous thing you can do is to stop taking your medication without being weaned off! Major red flags throughout this whole story, sadly :(
Psych meds were still new at the time, most people thought of medicine as something you take until you feel better. We didn’t know as much about them as we do now.
Either they ignored the doctor who advised them not to stop cold turkey or they were not told this information by the doctor - either way this decision was a detrimental turning point and they would have been better off staying with the therapist rather than dropping both at the same time . Some people have the idea that some issues have an insta-fix - this situation was not one of them...
Id argue that his mom tried harder than 99% of parents. She took him to a therapist and got him on rx medication. That is HUGE for the 90s. You can't use today's science and mental health knowledge to judge 30 years ago.
@@ehall6985 I'm sorry, but speaking as someone who was alive in the 90s, the idea someone with major mental issues still needed therapy and meds was NOT some new thing that was invented in the 00s. It WAS a know thing back then. Are we better about understanding mental health issues now than back then? Absolutely, but the 90s wasn't the fucking dark ages. I'll admit maybe I'm biased because I have family that have had severe mental issues, but if my family realized my Schizophrenic relative needed to continue on his meds in the fucking 50s, I have little sympathy for folks who thought "The symptom is gone, so the disease is gone" a full 40 years later.
I dont know, I think they did the best they could. and this type of thing develops over a loooong period of time. hindsight is a bitch. but again, there are some things that are out of a parents control. I think the mom and dad did quite a bit
@@TonySamedi umm, the SSRI he was on was new, and he didn't even need them. He's schizophrenic, not depressed. Some SSRIs make schizophrenia worse. Blaming parents for not being psychiatrists and having no other family with anywhere near close to the same issue as Kip? Really lol??????
The siblings were interviewed recently for an article in The New Yorker. Very interesting read. I’m glad Kip has her, it seems as though they’ve really been each other’s lifelines through the years.
It’s crazy because in the end he manned up more than 90% of the criminals we hear about and he really is helping make the world a better place while still atoning for his wrong doing and selflessly at that by not advocating for himself to get out of prison. Sadly prison is probably the most stable environment he’s ever been in with the treatment he’s receiving. Thank you for the video.
This was my high school. This happened my senior year and is the last thing I really remember until graduation a few weeks later. I was in the parking lot when it was happening and was rushed to the nearest classroom to hide. We watched everyone get wheeled out to ambulances because of the dark room we were all hiding in was closest to the entrance. This haunts so many of us to this day that were there. I know many with PTSD from this shooting. It’s sad beyond words, as is absolutely every single one that happened after. From the comments I see you did his story justice and how this could have been prevented but I just can’t finish.
Lisa, I think you are so brave for commenting and sharing your story. I went to columbine for a short semester and lived by the high school almost my whole life. I was not alive during the shooting but like most who attended columbine, I was affected by it. What we need more of in society today, is empathy, understanding, and love. I think you perfectly reflected all three of those things in your comment on this video. I hope you are doing well now, and are living life to the fullest. 💕
It's all right. I'm praying for you and all those who lived through the nightmare of that day, and I don't think there's anything wrong with not being able to finish this. Yes, he did a really good job with this video. A very good job. Thank you for sharing how this affected you. My heart breaks for all of you who were there and/or later impacted by this shooting.
@@paigebeepboop4488 None of it makes sense...a freshman in our high school came to SHOOT people, but I will explain in more detail this traumatic experience so you can understand. I was parked in the Senior lot, which is in front of the cafeteria, which is where the shooting was happening at that time. We were told to run away from there to our first period classrooms, if possible, as long as it was away from the cafeteria. I'm sure the thinking by the adults at the time, was that it would be easiest to account for people there once the school was cleared. We didn't know if there was more than one person at the time, so we shut the curtains to add the classroom, turned the lights off, and hid in the back away from the windows and doors. If you don't believe me, then there are HUNDREDS of other people there that would attest to it.
@@paigebeepboop4488 Also, if you look up how Thurston High is set up, it would make sense. There is no "inside" the building. It's all breezeway outside, so each classroom opens to the outside.
For anyone saying “but the parents didn’t know any better” before stopping the kids therapy- you’re right. However, they actively saw their son spiral out /again/ and still chose not to put him back in. Their lack of critical thinking/pattern recognition is the most disappointing thing about this case.
@@jenngibbs4559 I’m talking about common sense, not extensive knowledge of mental health issues. It doesn’t take too many brain cells to see your kid relapsing and go “hm maybe I should get him help again”
The history of their son's mental health should have told them what to do . I get so angry at parents that do this to their children. He got better because of the medicine, so don't stop taking it! I'm so sad over this. Proper medication would have made a difference for all affected with this tragic story.
The hell they didn’t know better. They were more concerned about how it would look that their kid was in therapy and on drugs. That’s how people were in the 90s. Being mentally I’ll meant you were a “psycho” and it was something to be embarrassed about. Why didn’t they consult the therapists before letting him go off his meds? Because they knew they’d argue against doing that. They knew better.
the fact that the family moved and made Kip attend Kindergarten in a foreign country... huge selfish move on the parents part... if he hadn't have missed that fundamental year, maybe he might have had more of a chance instead of remaining confused and frustrated with his abilities 😢 this case is so so so sad
Well that definitely didn't help matters but the truth is kip had a learning disability until that got diagnosed and treated it really wouldn't have mattered where he went he was going to struggle with English and writing
@@DMRJ53 yeah but apparently while locked up they got him on the correct meds and apparently his mental health is doin much better today so that's a good thing
When my daughter was 14, she had a close male friend who was suffering from mental illness like this. After the school, doctors, people that interacted with him, had finally worn down his parents, they finally sought him mental health care. The psychiatrist put him on Prozac and made it clear to his parents that he needed to stay regular on the meds and not abruptly stop taking them. I had a phone call with his mother about 5 mos later and told her that I was seriously scared for him and what he might do to himself or others. She scoffed at me and told me he was doing great. Not long after that, they allowed him to suddenly stop taking the meds. He called my daughter from his cell and then jumped from the third story of the mall, landing on a table in the food court below. All while my daughter was still on the phone. It took her a long time to finally accept she couldn't have helped save him, but I understood because a small part of me wondered if I could have convinced mom that things were not ok, if it wouldn't have happened, even though deep down I knew that this wasn't true. Lots of sad stories of red flags that don't get adequately addressed in time.
What a tragic story. I try to cope by thinking lives like that young man’s served the purpose of a cautionary tale. Hopefully his mother has by now sought help herself. It’s horrible she had to learn this lesson in such a harsh way.
I am so, so sorry for your daughter. I lost my best friend to suicide at 12 years old because of her untreated mental illnesses and even though I'm 20 now, i still have crying fits, nightmares and grieving episodes when i can't even leave my bed. I also have schizoid personality disorder and almost went the same path as Kip. I hope your daughter knows her friend is forever thankful for her support and that she is a wonderful, caring person. This is something you never really heal from, but she will learn to live with it as I did. Wishing the best for you and her ❤
Damn, that interview near enough brought me to tears as a grown man. This is a deeply upsetting case and I just feel so unbelievably sorry for everyone involved. Those poor students, those poor parents and that poor kid. So preventable, so tragic.
I was only 4 days cold turkey on my antidepressants due to a restock error and it was some of the most agonizing days of my life. I found myself unable to eat or leave the house, due to fear I would actively try to kill myself. I was in fear of my own emotions, that antagonized the most precious people in my life, and I felt the worst desperation I had ever felt. those were only the psychological effects it had me. now imagine on top of that the horrible feeling of sickness that overcame my body. at the end of the day, the system failed this boy. professionals should’ve educated their parents better, treatment should’ve been continued, and he never EVER should’ve gotten his hands on a gun
I had a similar issue were it took 2 weeks to get my refill. I had nausea, my suicidal thoughts where almost constant and I had mild auditory and visual hallucinations. It took a week for withdrawals to calm down but suicidal thoughts persisted. Then I was sick for a week getting back on. The thoughts were gone but I was numb, dazed and still having mild hallucinations for a that week after starting. For the record I don't normally hallucinate that's just how bad it messed me up.
Oh man, you're right! I was on Zoloft and I had to get off of it just because of the "brain zaps" you get when you don't take it. I think it took about six months to a year for them to go away. Now I'm on Lexapro and things are MUCH better! I had forgotten all about that!
@@darrenmuse "brain zaps" is such a good way to describe it. I described it as my brain being "wavy". Same happens to me if I forget to take my Cymbalta (on for chronic pain plus the depression that goes w it). I would have night sweats, hot & cold, can't get comfortable, and have restless "body" (not just restless legs). Same coming off of effexor, gabapentin, Lyrica, any of those kinds of depression or pain meds.
With mine, I have a three day window. But sweet Jesus, after the third day I’m working on my will. Withdrawal from those types of meds are SO much more serious that most let on to. It’s a horrible situation, but it’s even more awful when someone who genuinely wouldn’t hurt anyone while on their meds. The co fusion is probably so strong. He is horrible for what he did, but I do feel less than ounce of pity for him.
oh my god, antidepressant withdrawal is not a joke. a doctor messed up my meds and i switched too abruptly between meds, and oh my god, it was a whole month of hell. i feel so bad for him. also, THE DAD WHO KEEPS BUYING HIM GUNS AS A REWARD IS INSANE
God as a kid who was also VERY suicidal and mentally ill around the same age, this was a hard listen. I still struggle, but this case is just almost staring at myself if I haven't been able to get help. Mental illness is a real illness, and it doesn't get cured. It gets better, but it never goes away.
@@joinspace3864 I hope youre doing well now. It sounds like it. Everything is a process. For many, the younger years are the most difficult. If issues come up, reach out for help, even if it's just someone to talk to.
I just want to note, (separate from the topic of the video,) that recovery from mental illness is possible depending on the person and factors of their illness, as mental illness is a broad term to umbrella over both short term and long term mental illnesses. For example, in some cases people may experience a single, limited period of depression, but are able to recover after addressing the root issue(s), while others may show to have long term depressive disorders that might not prove to be permanently recoverable, and instead require mental health maintenance to live one's life with the illness. A quality life is potentially attainable regardless of full recoverability. Mental illness is like physical illness in so many ways, especially in how varied the factors are, including diagnoses, presentation, possible outcomes, and the necessary maintenance for quality of life. I'm sorry if this sounds like a lecture or a bad essay. It's a topic I care a lot about and I think it's important for people to understand these details. If you're seeing this, best wishes to you.
Dude same!!! Especially the dad! Like I understand supporting ur kids love for something but seriously-how many guns does a fcking 16 year old need JFC…& why would u take him out of therapy & off meds As a mentally ill person also diagnosed with major depressive disorder I can tell u, taking some1 off their anti depressants is the WORST thing u can do to them omg
As a mental health professional, this frustrates me and ngl, I feel a lot of sympathy. I mean, I groaned so loud after hearing when he finally got help and medication and then his parents just abruptly stopped all of it. His parents weren't horrible to him or even bad parents, they just really didn't know what they were doing and... the entire case is sad for everyone involved.
@@NotesNNotes they failed him. I don't think this can be contested... like many parents I think they truly loved him. but loving your children and failing them are not mutually exclusive. loving them and having the best intentions isn't always enough.
As a life long mental illness sufferer I can't help but feel some sympathy for this kid. I feel like society is only just now really starting to understand mental illness and learning difficulties and it's still such a long way to go.
This is the perfect example of the way mental health was treated in the 90’s. My heart breaks for this kid and for everyone who’s life’s were forever changed because of him. Such a tragic case. This channel is quickly becoming a favorite of mine!
Yes! My dad had bi polar (we know this now, but not at the time) and when he'd have his 'episodes' he'd be taken to a mental health center and put in a straight jacket!! No lie! As a family we knew better then to share these things, although ppl knew. We became 'that family'.. So very sad. My dad eventually committed suicide cause he just couldn't do life anymore. I wish there would've been more knowledge for him thru his struggles. Heartbreaking.
my little brother is going to be in prison for 15 years because he committed a bad crime while on drugs and hearing this kid's interrogation and his crying, he sounds so much like my own little brother and it hurts my heart. he just needed help and all of it could have been avoided.
I am sorry to hear about your little bro’ Kids do dumb things, (we all did!) their brains aren’t developed and they don’t fully understand the ramifications of their actions in the long term. As well as How said actions affect others long term. Maybe they know that action A = consequence B. However if they are not raised with emotional intelligence, understanding WHY B is a consequence of action A and how it hurts others, they will not think twice. If they understand how their actions truly hurt, inconvenience and burden others short and long term their petty crimes wouldn’t be putting them in jail for years. Also, I think FIFTEEN years is ridiculous!!!!!
My heart goes out to you and your brother, I hope he’s not suffering too badly or being subjected to abuse from staff and other inmates. Fifteen years is a long time in a young life. Sending you both strength and love.
hearing kip's journal entries tears my heart apart. he wanted the help. i hear my teenage self in those words, he honestly even shares my tone from that age. my depression and self-loathing was also largely fueled by constantly disappointing my parents and i just feel like this sort of spiral is inevitable when you parent this way. my parents also didn't believe in therapy... he needed so much help as a kid and they just... failed him. it's hard
It’s insane to think about how different things could have ended up for some of us if we didn’t get the same support and weren’t shown the kindness we were.
@@bre.172 Do I need to remind you of Teddy Bunter who had MONEY, SUCCESS and was considered hot with loads of women wanting him and STILL MURDERED PEOPLE
i live in eugene, oregon and i revisit this video every few months. too many true crime channels treat these cases as just some more tea but you discuss them with respect and empathy for the victims, and in this case, the perpetrator. i’m drawn to this video in particular because while you show empathy to Kip and his family, you don’t make light of the situation or justify his actions. i always leave these videos feeling more informed and grateful that there are true crime channels like yours
I almost cried hearing him in the interview crying that he didn't want to do it he loved his dad but he had no choice, as another paranoid schizophrenic that makes complete sense to me, we're similar even down to not learning how to spell my own name until grade school, it's so wrong his parents didn't really accept that he needed help with something he legit couldn't control suffering from. The voices can be unrelenting, convincing, can be absolutely brutal, and really, sometimes just opening up honestly about the experience is relieving, but his therapy was dropped like a hat :(
I'm so glad you are doing well and I hope you have a strong support network. Lost in the dark is a very lonely place to be. I'm 45 and have been battling my demons for most of my life but my first official diagnosis was at 16. Some days are bad, some are good but mostly I just feel like I'm waiting to die. Peace be with you and I wish you much love and strength on your journey.
@@rabid_vixen I really appreciate that and I think I'm ok for now, yes I relate to that a lot, sometimes things are okay other times things are bad but mostly I'm thinking of the end and I'm battling myselfs the moment I wake up, peace to you as well, we all deserve support 💜 my family have come a very long way in supporting me, I hope things keep getting better, for everyone suffering these things like us 🙏
Thank you for sharing. I'm glad mental illness is becoming more accepted. I was paralyzed by the fear of accepting that something might be wrong and seeking help until I was out of college and my sister finally convinced me to talk to my doctor. My illness is not schizophrenia, but it is debilitating and I didn't realize that it could be so much improved with treatment. I feel for Kip, but also for his parents who sound like they did the best they could in light of their own human flaws that we only realize in hindsight. Knowing what's "right" in a society that constantly pushes misinformation as the norm is a difficult task for anyone, let alone those thouroughly unprepared by their own upbringing or circumstances.
@@mjjf26 I'm so happy you let your sister help you in that decision, it's really tough for sure and now I don't think I'd be so far if not for my own siblings' reassurances, but yeah, definitely I agree education on these illnesses that anyone could develop need far more support, need to be talked about and in how to respond to such things, because many times my family responded in ways that weren't helping me through my delusions at all lol, and as well dispelling that these illnesses are always aligned with violence, when that's just one resort to a very rare scenario for a rare illness, that really should have treatment more easily acknowledged and accessed, like it's taken me years to learn how to care for myself and I'm still relearning even though I've been diagnosed for so long, if in general my family had more accurate knowledge and how to support I think would've remove mountains of stresses
this is so heartbreaking… the fact that he shot his parents not out of anger, but because he felt like he was such a negative part of his parents lives that them being dead, in his mind, would be more merciful than forcing them to live with him disappointing and embarrassing them over and over….. wow… it is so extremely important to listen to people, and for parents to really think about their children’s mental health, and how impactful words can be, because you have NO IDEA how much pain and trauma you could unintentionally be causing someone
the worst part is that he genuinely sounded like a good boy who tried really hard to be accepted. he was by nature communicative and hardworking. that's evident by how fast he improved with therapy and prozac. he had to cold turkey his way through those weeks and it must have been torture.
This case hits different than all the other ones. In other interviews with the murderer you can tell they’re trying to manipulate and lie to not deal with the consequences of their actions. With Kip you can tell he’s not like this. It’s really sad all around. The victims deserved better but so did Kip. 😢 Edit: when I say Kip deserved better is I mean getting help with his mental issues, not that he deserved to go free.
Right. Because America is the only country with guns. If not for my gun, my little sister and I would have been mauled by three dogs. To say I shouldn't have had it would be to wish death on a teenager and a six year old. Guns are a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.
The interrogation sequence is so painful to listen to. You can just feel the anguish, pain, confusion for what has happened. It’s just so brutal to listen to, I had to stop there.
@@ladyreverie7027 listen to the interrogation of Nathaniel Shimmel thru to the end. This interrogation is just harrowing & heartbreaking to listen to. But important. Psalms 51:17 "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."
@@TheJcjonesacpNo disagreement that life is hard, but so was being lorded over by my strict, Catholic parents in suburban Houston. Being an independent adult living in New York City is better on its worst day than my teenage years were on its best day. I’d rather jump off the Williamsburg Bridge than go back to that bullshit. 🗽
just realized that it is 25 years later like kip's sister said in her letter. i feel like things have changed so much like she predicted but it's astounding how behind we STILL are regarding mental health.
I am dyslexic, like Kip. In school, I was often misdiagnosed with adhd because I found reading and writing so stressful, I would focus on other things in the classroom. I got in trouble almost everyday for coping with my frustration, but my mother refused any and all medications that were suggested for this. Parents: LISTEN to your children, they know more than you do when it comes to their own experience. You can easily prevent these kinds of tragedies- EASILY.
Listening to him has brought me to tears.. With the first "my head doesn't work right" I understood, I felt that. This boy, a child, unwell and uncared for in the way he needed to be. It's just so, so sad. For every single person. Every single person is a victim in this story, in varying degrees. There's no justice no matter what happens. Everyone loses here. 😓
as an autistic person with PTSD and possibly ADHD/ADD, that part really hit home. it's always been so hard for me to make friends and meet people due to my neurodivergence, and listening to his inner thoughts and pleadings for help was just so sad. this could have been prevented
25-year anniversary today. I remember the day it happened. I live in Eugene, Oregon. This is the first time I have been exposed to such a detailed report on Kip. Thank you for covering his case. RIP to the lost souls and those injured by untreated mental illness.
nothing can excuse what he did, but this story, told in full…really illustrates just how let down he was by those meant to help him. thank you for telling this story with such detail and emphasis on things often not highlighted.
My friend did an in prison college class and Kip was one of her fellow classmates. She said he is one of the nicest people she’s ever met and it radically changed her perspective on crime and punishment.
As someone who works with youth involved in the juvenile Justice system, they are often the sweetest, more empathetic, and intelligent teenagers. They just belong to the 20%+ of the teen populations that our system isn’t built for, they’re left behind. So glad he is doing well! Thank you for spreading good information about reform. :)
Excellent job researching and reporting this case. I wasn’t familiar with it. I feel so much sympathy for Kip that his parents didn’t keep up his mental health treatment early on when he was showing progress. What’s sad, is still, even all these years later, we haven’t come much farther from the stigma that plagues those who suffer from various forms of mental health issues. I’m happy to see the progress he’s made in prison.
I really have to wonder about their motives for stopping treatment . Did him doing well upset their label of him as 'the problem' ? Or did they consider him 'cured'? You wouldn't just stop treating an ongoing physical illness , would you ?
I think mental health has come a very long way since the 90's!!! It's talked about everywhere, tons of commercials on it, more and more counseling centers popping up, etc. Humans and their make ups are a work in progress. But we have made huge strides in mental health.
The fact that the public dismissed experts saying Kip had major mental issues as him playing "the sick rich kid" even though he never pleaded the insanity defense is very telling. And that victim should never have been allowed to say he wasn't sick. She was a traumatized teen, not a psychiatrist. She shouldn't be arguing about the validity of diagnoses. Just tragic all around.
Kip's parents thought they were so intelligent themselves, but didn't research their sons treatments??? They disreguarded professionals & their son. Pride goes before a fall. Who paid the price? Countless!!! This breaks my heart & pray for all involved.
when I first heard he couldn’tread the first thing I thought was dyslexia which I know was well known back then because I was born in 82 so how was that not their first thought? So many things were overlooked like taking him off antidepressants and away from therapy.
@@jessicabecause3717that might be true, but I don't know how smart you have to be to recognize that therapy and medicine are helping and just go "he's cured"
If you havnt lived without internet i can see thats how you would look at it. But it was like, you wondered something like 'how big is Italy?' and you asked your mother or your friends. If they didnt know, you would MAYBE go see if your parents had any kind of dictionarys or world atlas (that would most certainly be several years old and have out of date fact), or more likely you would just go "oh well" and NOT KNOW THE ANSWER. And that is what it was with everything, you simply couldnt find out literally anything that popped into your head! You had very limited chance to just "research" stuff on a whim. Even if you would go to a library, how would you know where to start? You cant just magically find and open the correct book covering this exact symptoms and issues when you havnt even heard about it before. It might sound exaggerated to you but it genuinly was a different world.
@@jessicabecause3717There's long been access to reliable information; you just had to go to the library or speak with a professional. And people have long been warned not to make absurd conclusions like "Kip is cured of his mental illness" based on wildly insufficient evidence.
My gosh that interrogation is heartbreaking. How his lawyers didn’t go for insanity is beyond me. You can hear how distracted he is by the voices in his head. The poor kid can hardly speak.
Disagree. Aside from some hallucinations and paranoid thoughts, there aren't other symptoms of schizophrenia described or alluded to in this video. That's only one of the core symptoms required for a diagnosis. He's missing one of the other two, gross disorganisation and/or flattened affect. His ability to stay on a topic for a long time without any hint of loose association shows he's not grossly disorganised, and his interrogation shows his affect is not flat. The case fits better into a severe depression with psychotic symptoms model.
@@peccantis Hallucinations and paranoid thoughts aren't symptoms of depression. He was definitely going through some sort of psychosis. You don't hear voices when depressed.
@@peccantis He also had delusions. Believing that his parents would have preferred death than the humiliation of having a bad kid is a delusion and his horrific actions, towards his parents at least, were logical as they stemmed from this belief. That is not psychotic or a break from reality. He overheard his father talk about how ashamed he was of his son and called Kip hopeless to his face, so he was working from events that happened in reality.
It’s hard not to have empathy for the kid IMO. What he did was horrid, but coming off of the medication cold turkey has deadly consequences. The people around this kid failed him
Affine to this; I personally feel the mitigating circumstances should have kept him from life in prison. I think with medication and therapy he could have lived in a mental facility and eventually graduated to living out and with a parole officer. Idk I just feel like this kid was fucked from every angle.
Absolutely. I think they were not bad parents. But why they take him off medication is beyond my knowledge. They didn’t took his mental problems serious enough. If they did, maybe many people wouldn’t have suffered and this kid could have lived a normal life. Not everybody needs to be genious. Even with learning disabilities there are so many ways your life can evolve in a normal and happy manner.
@@TheApp9 i think the parents were leftist freaks. His parents prob didnt divulge the abuse they inflicted on him and he was prob too ashamed to talk. This is a case about the unfair treatment of our boys and men. He thrived in math and science but was shamed because he wasnt good at bullshit like writing and reading. Reading is useful, writing meh.. but nothing gets accomplished irl without math and science. They shouldnt have put him on prozac to start. They failed him....
They failed him multiple times. The irony in this horrible story is that his feelings of disappointed drove him to these terrible acts. The disappointment really should fall on his parents who missed multiple opportunities to be parents to their son instead of allowing perceptions to drive their decisions.
God, I remember coming off Prozac when I was 15 and I was worse than before I was on it. I'm glad that study last year has finally formally addressed that it's not an effective SSRI for children and adolescents. Especially when you have citalopram or zoloft as options
The interrogation audio is so sad. This isn't a heartless monster. This is a child with a severe mental illness that should have been taken more seriously. This kind of thing is why people need to talk about mental health more. Yeah, it can get uncomfortable, but it's so much better to let kids know they can rely on you (their parents, teacher, whatever) to help them if they need it. Hell, it's just as important for adults to have that kind of support. Mental health issues are not some moral failing - it's just part of being alive. People are incredibly complex creatures, and to assume that every person you meet is 100% ok inside is flawed.
@@ollieskater9397 What an atrocious counter argument lmao. Kip definitely doesn't deserve praise and coddling for what he did, but the situation absolutely deserves some amount of empathy and basic understanding. Just because you have a better handle on your mental health issues doesn't mean everyone else that has severe mental issues should be able to handle things the same way. This kid wasn't some spoiled, self important, incel trashbag, he was failed at almost every turn for 15 years by people that were supposed to help guide him through life and he felt lost, hopeless and that he was a failure to the people he loved the most. Expecting a kid at that age, with that background, with those mental health issues to have any amount consideration for anything when his head is literally full of voices telling him he was a piece of shit and to kill people says a lot about people that think this kid is some kind of monster.
@@ollieskater9397 Unless you have schizophrenia, which involves hallucinations and delusions like voices in your head telling you to kill people, you cannot compare your mental illness to Kip’s. Literally the reason why he had thoughts of killing and harming others was because of his schizophrenia-not because it was part of his personality. Please do some research before vilifying a whole community that struggles with this illness. This is exactly why Kip kept the voices in his head to himself-because of comments like yours that make it so anyone having those thoughts because of schizophrenia are “evil.”
@@CGDubz87 He had an unfortunate life especially given his circumstances, yes, but he is a monster for what he has done. His legit mental illness doesn't rescind the severity of his actions, which after killing his parents, two students, and injuring many more kids, he IS a complete pos monster, albeit a tragic one.
Rewatching this after a year. I massively respect the considerations you took regarding kip's mental health. The fact we got the story from all sides: Victims, family of Kip, all 3, just so very complete in your investigation. I'll be back one day for a 3rd watch, I'm sure of it
Dear god, I’ve always known his name as an “other”, a creep, but now as an adult and my first time actually hearing this fuller story and I’m weeping for him. The lives lost, but also his prolonged torture and helplessness. What a tragedy all around. I blame the father. The cool, distant, judgey father who kept Kip an estranged stranger in his own family. How hard it is to connect with someone -- especially when they’re hurt?? :( this boy just needed understanding, and that’s free.
I have two grown sons. If they did something wrong, I would show low level anger. I might’ve shouted at them whilst telling them why I’m angry. I never once told them that they were disappointments. They always knew that once I’d told them off, it was done. I never dwelled on the thing they had done. I’d had my say, they got their punishment, we moved on. I also never believed in both parents dishing out discipline at the same time. If my husband was telling them off, I remained silent. They could then come to me, or my husband, and talk about their feelings. There is no back of book answers for parenting. We do the best we can. Unfortunately, Kips parents using disappointment was destructive. Hitting doesn’t work, making them feel less than, doesn’t work. Upfront, honest, “you know what you did….here’s your punishment” seemed fair to me. Kids make mistakes.
I think you're right. They found it easy to raise a gifted daughter but couldn't relate to an equally gifted but vulnerable son and I think father in particular worried a bit too much about what the neighbours would think and rather less about his son's mental health and self esteem. Also, it seems a bit sinister to me that when he did sort of bond with his son, the relationship seems to have been mediated by guns.
@@wywardmoose I think it’s more animal, undeveloped. Racist hatred is learned but visceral disgust is a survival mechanism. It’s simple to hate, harder (and takes training) to look past your animal nature and find humanity in someone who’s broken the social contract so thoroughly. “Us and them” is simple tribal animal nature … this kid isn’t a freak though, he’s an “us” who was neglected til he pickled into a school shooter. His parents present like “us” but are actually the twisted ones. They were so invested in the Truman Show they forgot Truman was a real boy. _That_ is what’s twisted, and how this poor soul grew up so contorted.
I don’t know why but when the detective asked if he’d been up all night and asked if he watched tv, at 57:07 when Kip says “I turned it on to keep me company [but didn’t watch it]” it just broke my heart. In his own home, parents dead in other rooms, wanting to die so bad. And he turned on the tv to keep himself company. I don’t know why, I don’t understand it, but that just made my eyes fill with tears.
I’ve listened to SO many of these RUclips’s, and this is the first one that has really broken my heart and I couldn’t really finish it. Kip might be the first person I believe feels bad for what they did. I am heartbroken that no one could help him, and just kept doing things to make his situation worse.
Faith Kinkel was my French teacher at Briggs Middle School. Whenever I saw her around town she would stop and say hi and let me practice my French with her. I was the only Mexican child in the school (it was 1988 or 1989 in Oregon). Mrs. Kinkel was one of the only teachers that made me feel welcome at the school.
How do 2 educated parents not recognize Dyslexia? I grew up in dirt poor southern Louisiana a few years before Kip and knew plenty of kids who were diagnosed with it. This seems insane to me.
It seems his parents were continuously trying to get him help for his learn disability. Whilst they might not have known it was dyslexia they knew something was wrong.
my thought too. It was the first thing that crossed my mind. Intelligent child, but struggling with dyslexia. And letting him feel like a failure. Horrible. Childabuse to be honest
NIN has a way to stick in our heads for life, if you have a certain kind of predisposition, I suppose; few musicians can put misery so well in arrangement, not in words. And the end result feels so "right" the words they keep coming anyway. The sentence "I just want something I can never have" lives rent-free in my brains since 1995, "shines in a world full of ugliness" since 2003.
Can confirm. I hate to admit this... but I actually burst out laughing when the narrator mentioned that 'Kip was on a downward spiral'. It's a line too perfect not to be intentional. For those not into NIN, "The Downward Spiral" was NIN's smash hit 90s album most of the ripped off journal lines are from.
reminds me of jennifer pan..she was a child of tiger parenting....so she killed them cuz to bring shame and disappointment to them was far worse than ending their lives
Mad respect for the law enforcement officer interviewing this poor boy. If only his parents had been half as supportive and attentive to him, this entire tragedy could have been avoided. My parents were totally clueless about a lot of "issues" but at least they knew when to throw money at the problem and bring in professionals. Poor kid, I hope he's getting help.
Which is why we need to nationalize our healthcare system so it didn't matter how much or how little you have, you can simply seek the help you need. It's not a perfect system, but it sure beats what we have now. How much money you make should NEVER keep someone from accessing care. It shouldn't just be the ones with cash that get the treatment and everyone else suffers and dies. This is the richest country ON THE PLANET. There is no excuse that "we can't afford it". Maybe if we stopped giving welfare to Jeff Benzos and the trillion dollar companies, and gave it instead to those who need it we wouldn't be living in this hellscape.
I watch so much true crime I thought I was going numb to it but I was wrong. This hurt, my stomach turned, he was in so much pain. I know he's the murderer but I just can't help but feel sorry for him. Listening to him you can't help but hear the scared child he is.
Same here. I have been on such a long true-crime kick that I thought that I had began to become numb to horrific details and events. But a few other things in the past year, and this one specifically had me feeling gutted inside. I need to find happy things to watch today. Or maybe just some random SCP stuff to take me entirely out of the realm of reality for my two days off here.
I usually roll my eyes when someone tries to claim they're mentally ill in court. This really is a case where he should be treated as mentally ill by our justice system. And for a literal kid to tell someone "no, I owe it to them to listen" speaks volumes about what sort of person he is in his rational mind.
It's actually very bizarre how children are seen as evil and fully responsible for all their actions, once they do something awful. As a person who works with youth offenders, they're kids. It has been proven time and time again, that the younger you are from age 25, the less developed and emotionally unstable you are.
You can not be fully developed and still know right from wrong. He knew what he was doing was awful evil and wrong and decided to do it anyways. I don’t care how much pain he was in. I’ve been there myself and would never have hurt innocent people like this. He had it in his heart to do it. No excuses.
@stupid Cat “what he did was not good, BUT”… don’t make excuses for him or downplay what he did. It’s disrespectful to the victims. He knew it was wrong. Being frustrated with his parents I get it(but no excuse to shoot them); however taking a gun to school was wrong ( he even knew this) and shooting two innocent children is inexcusable. There millions of mentally I’ll children in the U.S the vast majority do not shoot up schools. Yes it’s his parents fault as well, they should have kept him in therapy and on meds. However the “you don’t know what he went through” is BS and an excuse. He knew right from wrong, he and his parents are to blame.
That detective was so respectful. I would fully understand if he was angry, and trying to intimidate this kid, but he truly tried to understand the reason behind such awful and heinous actions. That was really human of him, and i think this was one of the few times where kip got some kind of understanding in his life, and its really sad that it took him committing such absurd actions. My heart goes out to all the victims families.
@@Deenique16 right . gurl this comment section really got me confused. more sad for the shooter than the people he murdered and emotionally scared in cold blood
@@sidology1.0 it’s because this shooting could have been prevented the boy was I’ll he needed help medicine and therapy when he got those things he improved greatly and their loss directly caused this .
@@sidology1.0 Feeling empathy or feeling sadness for this kid doesn't mean that people feel MORE sad than they do for the murdered and other victims. For me, this is one of those rare cases where I feel like everyone was a victim on some level. Does that mean that I think this kid was justified in his actions, or that I think he was the biggest victim out of them all? No. He obviously had some level of awareness that what he was doing was wrong, which we can see based off of how emotional he was during the interrogation. But it also seems like there were multiple levels in this kid's life where things failed on him, and that had things been a little different he wouldn't have done what he did. If his parents hadn't decided to take him off of his medication without consulting doctors. If the essays he turned in at school expressing serious depression and suicidal tendencies had been noticed by his teachers and followed up on properly. If he hadn't had such easy access to guns. If he had been seeing a therapist or psychiatrist who may have noticed his schizophrenic-like symptoms, and made sure that he was being properly treated for that.
My mom is a psychologist. She has told me several times that dyslexia is underdiagnosed. Parents tend to think their children are unintelligent or lazy, when all they need is special attention to improve their writing and coordination skills. It seems that not just parents but also teachers need to learn how to spot problems of the sort.
I was diagnosed with adhd as a kid but even then they did formally diagnose my dyslexia for some unknown reason. There's a lot of pain that comes with having learning disabilities. And just because plenty of people have them doesn't change the trauma of them
I have a friend with dyslexia. She taught herself was to read. She told me that it can be hereditary. All of her kids have dyslexia. She helped them with their reading. Their kids also have dyslexia.
Dyslexia is really hard to deal with I grew up with Dyslexia I knew I'm not dumb but years of teachers and students bullying and humiliating me for my Dyslexia really took his toll on my self esteem I also had undiagnosed adhd this whole time it's a real struggle to be different as a child . And I was so different and misunderstood . Adhd also makes you feel everything so strongly and I have a slightly above average iq the combination of al these things made my life so contradictory and hard to figure out also the tools available for you don't help you . Because your brain just doesn't work normal . Adding schizophrenia to this must be absolute torture to live . Off course I feel really bad for al the students and families that got hurt and traumatized and have to deal z With this burden and trauma for the rest of there life too. They had nothing to do with this and are victims of a horrible crime
It's so crazy to me that his parents just pulled him off Prozac cold turkey. I understand it was a new drug and people didn't know much about it but did they even consider the concept that the body becomes accustomed to certain drugs and withdrawal will happen (to some degree) with almost all of them! Also did the doctor not mention that once he started, he wouldn't be able to stop without a weaning process? Surely the doctor would have known that an unpleasant withdrawal was likely. Possibly he wasn't aware how truly awful and proteacted that process would be. However, I refuse to believe that a medical professional would not predict that a sudden and immediate ending of a previously daily ingestion of a drug that works by changing hormone levels within the brain (on a patient who was already struggling a lottttttt mentally) even if it was a very new drug and therefore untested.
You'd be surprised. I've seen psych clinicians pull people off all kinds of stuff cold turkey. My partner was pulled of antipsychotics cold turkey as a teen and went through over a year of seizures and w/d. I've also been instructed to discontinue SSRIs cold turkey but knew better than to do that. I observed a pharmacist telling a little old lady to just quit her opioids the other day (even though her PRESCRIBING PHYSICIAN wanted her to take them; the pharmacist just "didn't believe in" opioids). There is zero education, responsibility, or accountability in this industry.
Doctors switch up meds all the time without weaning. It’s usually not even necessary but when it is, it really is. I think it depends on the person and other drugs they’re taking. I wean myself no matter what.
I stopped taking my Lexapro once cold turkey and experienced psychological symptoms I never had prior to starting the meds. The worst withdrawal ever. These parents are awful for that. Thankfully my situation just led to paranoia and vomiting but for others, it is so so so much worse.
I feel no anger at anyone involved. Just heartbroken. Parents made mistakes sure but they really tried and I think cared about their son. He's obviously ill and in agony. Finally the innocent victims life taken unfairly. Probably the first true crime episode I've seen where I am heartbroken for everyone involved, including the perpetrator. Devastating
@Jedi Patriot that’s not any sort of guarantee that they would know better. This was the 80s and 90s, and even 30-40 years later, our society is STILL struggling to figure out mental/emotional health and learning disabilities. Idk how old you are, but personally, having grown up in the nineties in small town America, I can see the vast difference in mental health awareness in this environment.
@@jvappi i agree but also not at the same time. my parents are immigrants from mexico who have even less awareness of mental health, and barely even finished highschool, but still tried their best to help me and my sister when they noticed that somethings were wrong, it was mostly my mother though. but on the other hand i understand mental health being a newer thing than it is now back then in this case.
@@clownmonomaniac2630 I hear you. In your personal circumstances you were lucky to have parents who could tell that something was off. I think things are trending up, but back then this sort of recognition and drive to fix things was outside of the norm (which doesn’t inherently mean the parents who didn’t notice were bad parents, just lacked knowledge and awareness). It’s easy to judge people in the past from a “today” perspective, but it isn’t flippant or dismissive to say simply that times were different and things have changed. Society and commonalities in parenting have changed.
I went cold turkey of meds once. I felt myself becoming evil, as if I could say anything to anyone and I didn't care. In short, I lost my restraint, my inhibitions, the ability to have a negative emotion and not act on it. When I spoke to a doctor a day later he told me to get back on them immediately, which I did. I gained back my control. I then weaned of them slowly and was fine.
@@Bubba__Sawyer When my Dr. was going to prescribe "Oxycodone" to me after a surgery, I opted for "Tylenol 1" (w/codeine) instead because I've heard horror stories about "Oxy" but when I stopped taking the Tylenol cold turkey, the withdrawals were just horrible and I didn't attribute it to the "Tylenol" because I hadn't a clue just how addictive codeine was! Well, it is and it can be dreadful so yeah, it's never a good idea to go off any type of meds w/o talking to your Dr. first. I can sympathize w/the OP. 💊👀😊
@@isabellind1292 opiate withdrawal is a walk in the park compared to SSRI withdrawal. I've been through both. While opiate wd is physically much more painful, wd of SSRI makes you lose your mind, the whole world is spinning and collapsing down on you and everything feels eternally hopeless and futile. Everything hurts, the sun doesn't shine, it burns your eyes. The world becomes a dark gray place and nothing in it is of any worth.
@@DerLiesl How scary. (My sister was on "Cymbalta", an SSRI & she too experienced dreadful w/ds). It's awful to think what you had to go through. I imagine it took months until you rid all the chemicals from your body. I'm glad you got off it. I wish you well.
His interview is just heartbreaking. He sounds so young. It's just the deepest tragedy. You can feel his pain and hopelessness. I feel the interviewer did a good job. Just unending pain and sadness for this young man. My heart hurts for him.
Only if you could show the same sympathy for the victims who lost their lives for no reason that you're showing the person who murdered them. You're almost as sick as him
there is always those who are so overdramatic. showing some form of sympathy for his mental struggles doesnt mean that OP doesnt have (even more) sympathy for the victims and those affected by Kip’s actions.. Jeez
@DJ ??? Dude, if you yourself can’t find it in you to feel sorry for at least what this boy went through, then there’s something wrong with you. No one said they DONT feel sympathy for the victims. However this video is focused on him and what led him to do what he did. Do I think what he did was okay? No. But do I feel sorry for what he went through as a child? Yes
I am unsure as to why, but youtube keeps disabling comments on this video. I think it's just a glitch, but I have had to manually reset the comments back to open 3 times within the first hour. Sorry to any comments that have been lost, especially if they included case suggestions.
*I would love to hear you do a story on the murder of Girly Chew Hossencofft.. The husband, and his girlfriend, are absolute creepy lunatics!* Would you please consider?
I’ve never heard of this case, this one was good.
Thank you so much Mr. Dreading for doing my recommendation. I'm literally in tears right now. You rock. I am forever a true fan.... Thank you for the shout out! Omg I literally can't even deal with it!🤣🤣🤣😍😍😍😘😘😘😘😘
@@RubiiMoon Tahnia, thank you for recommending this case to Dreading. Ive never heard of it. I cried the whole time for everyone involved. I love the respect and excellent writing on this channel.
@@BucketHeadianHagg All I did was bring this case out to fresh eyes and recommend it to a brilliant story choreographer? Is that a thing? Well it is now lol. Mr. Dreading does top notch work. And a lot of us have been here since day one.. when he was telling us about the horrors that took place in a little town called Celebration. So it's no surprise that he would knock this case out the park!! I'm just floored he listened to me, and you know what? About a half hour ago, someone else had to tell me he posted this video.. I had no clue..
So since he truly listens to his followers and his fans it's our job to make sure he knows that we appreciate everything that he does. All of his research is beyond anything I could.
Let's make sure we let him know that we support the hell out of him.
Keep up the amazing work Mr. Dreading!
Xoxo (I'm literally still blushing he shouted me out)
the fact that these parents just decided to stop therapy and medication full stop. their child has diagnosed depression… it’s unreal. mental health needs to be discussed openly so events like this can be avoided.
Exactly. Just like they knew he had learning difficulties yet decide to up root him, take him to a foreign country where he didn't speak the language, then stick him in first grade knowing that he missed out on all of the educational and social building blocks kindergarten provides🤯
@@mermaidsquad1391 i know right!! that’s a lot for any child, let alone one who clearly has so many difficulties! so much went wrong here 😭
I mean, this is stupid, but we can't forget It is 1998, people did not understand depression like we do today. People used to think depression was a easy thing, that you would take some pills and the illness Will Go away. His parents didn't know. Putting him in a spanish speaking School while they knew his struggles was stupid though
Prozac was new those days. They didn’t know how it worked or what the long-term side effects would be for teens on it long term.
@@PutinsMommyNeverHuggedHim aren’t you never supposed to stop taking a medication unless your doctor says so, regardless of what it is or what condition it’s treating? i thought this was a common disclaimer even in the 90’s. like yeah SSRI’s have strong withdrawal symptoms, but would parents just stop giving their son heart medication if he had a heart condition and it seemed to go away one day? also, they had plenty of time to get him back to counseling since he clearly needed help after he stopped prozac. like man idk the red flags were all there.
Seeing his journal say the only reason he’s alive is hope, once the hope is gone people die. Then hearing his dad telling him he’s hopeless… that must have crushed him.
@@Liviloveeee03 bruh
@@Liviloveeee03 so you don’t care about preventing school shooters?
@@Liviloveeee03 wow. Thats a real bitchy thing to say..
@@Liviloveeee03 if you happened to be born with the same mental health issues, and were raised and conditioned in the same way he was then you would also be 'pure evil'. But it's likely you were happy and healthy, had a good social life, good relationships with your family and did well in school so you turned out normal like the rest of us
All he needed was support from his dad and he had legit schizophrenia that went untreated bc he was too afraid to tell the therapist in front of his mom that he heard voices.. that alone plus the other factors must have been horrifying for him. Not justifying his actions but he needed help and could have gotten it, his dad really should have went to therapy with him as well..
Telling a child that you are disappointed in them instead of disappointed in their behavior are 2 very different things.
100% correct!
Do you think this kid would have even made the distinction with his paranoid schizophrenia?
I don’t think a child typically has the emotional maturity to differentiate either way
@@ryangolden3243 after about age 7, yes they definitely do.
@@havanafayre you have no idea what you're talking about
Hearing him sob and confess to horrible things in that small, childlike voice breaks my mom heart to pieces. What he did was awful and I feel for the families of those he hurt and took away. But this boy was suffering and practically begged for help. He was failed
I'm right there with you. My heart breaks for this poor boy who just wanted help. Listening to him cry his heart out as he recounted what he'd done makes me want to just scoop him up & hug him & let him know that he IS lovable. Poor baby lived thinking he's not worthy of love for so long & my mom heart just wants to make it better, even though that's not always possible. I give the detective massive props for being so gentle with Kip. Even after being charged at with a knife he remains calm & keeps his voice gentle with this scared boy. I know what he did is truly horrible but I still feel horrible for that scared little boy inside him that just wanted to be understood & loved the way he is. I'm so glad that, as a society, we've made major improvements on how mental health is handled. There's no longer such a negative connotation with needing therapy or medication to help & I'm so grateful for that.
He didn't want help, if he actually wanted help for himself and others he would've told someone he had homicidal ideation, he's a fuckin psycho.@@p_nutmama0724
Same, it breaks my heart
I agree. It’s so heartbreaking. He was wrong and I feel sad for him, both can be true at the same time.
Me too😢😢😢
Kip clearly had a treatable, medical illness. He sounded like a dream patient, improving immediately on Prozac and with only a few sessions of therapy. He probably could have had a decent, successful life beyond high school had his parents just kept on but I think they let stigma guide them. Tragic and avoidable.
True! Whether he had undiagnosed schizophrenia does not mean he wasn't depressed and anxious too. People on here keep saying "it was the 90's" and "people didn't know about mental illness back then". That's absolute nonsense. The parents ignored medical advice. They were negligent beyond belief.
@@johann.9271 Yep. His parents cared about how it looked, and not whether he got help.
@@Aster_Risk One thing I won't deny is that people cared way more about "keeping up pretences" than real family issues. It was all about reputation. If your children were mentally ill, that meant you were judged because you could be carrying those traits. This story teaches us that we shouldn't judge others based on anything but merit and trust. It was silly of the parents to think they could "cure" their child just to save their image (or "disappointment"). They sacrificed his sanity for popularity... And where did that bring them? They certainly didn't deserve what happened to them... But that poor child was anxious, depressed, hopeless, helpless and abandoned. Perhaps the parents didn't understand that, but the therapist and doctor did. They shouldn't have shrugged off clinical advice. By doing that, they sealed their child and their own fates.
And Bill gave him a nine-mil. and the rifle? I think that was criminally negligent. Bill was probably a gun enthusiast, which was where Kip was getting his ideas. Also, their house was A-frame and it would make me crazy to have a slanty-ceilinged bedroom where I had to walk bent over. His gf probably dumped him because of the w/drawals.
What I don't understand is why his parents didn't seek professional help for him again once he started displaying instability. They already knew how effective it was the first time around.
He’s one of the few people you’ve covered where I’ve actually believed he was sorry for his actions. He’s the only one who has shown genuine remorse and I wish he could have a do over.
Agree, the last part of this video is very telling, that kid was in so much pain
Well that is IF looking down and crying is a sign of "genuine remorse". At the time he did these things he thought thru it. He waited and slept overnight in the home with his dead parents and probly was not crying all night, he was thinking about what he would do the next day. He was plotting his next move and obviously not feeling remorse during that more than 12 hours. He had PLENTY of time to call cops or express remorse or stop himself. His remorse didn't kick in until he was in the hands of law enforcement and heros at the school brave enough to stop him. During interrogation is when he knew he had thrown away his life and many others. I do feel sadness for him --that he didn't get help earlier. Am sure that is what he feels. He realizes that his childhood is over and he is not the hero of the story and he won't ever have his parents - who did everything for him. Yep, I think these are real tears, but I don't think it's from real remorse for what he did to his parents nor at school, it's fear of his own situation and his own future, not the remorse for his many victims and the lives that were negatively affected.
@@beverlycharles6534 ... k
@@beverlycharles6534 Did you disregard the part where we was writing down all his “messed up” feelings and thoughts and how he needed help? How he didn’t want to hurt people? His parents created him, and are fully to blame. He was a FRESHMAN IN HIGH SCHOOL, not even old enough to legally consent to sex or see an R-rated movie on his own.
@@SteeleHeller some people just cherry pick details to maintain a position of emotional judgement, and disregard everything to the contrary.
His journal is a decent part of this video, so IMO people have to deliberately ignore that, and his age to totally see him as evil.
As someone who works in early childcare, it was so hard to hear obvious signs of dyslexia with no intervention. His parents had no idea how to adjust their parenting style to him and it ended up with these devastating consequences
It’s obvious! You don’t need a child care background 🙄
@@patriciamaeda852 In the mid nineties such diagnoses weren't as commonplace - especially if one comes from a small town or a lesser health-literate location.
@@patriciamaeda852 Now we know what to look for and what forms different learning disabilities look like. This was not the case back in the mid 80s, when he was starting school and showing what would be very obvious signs today. And back then, really only experts and doctors might have recognized it- teachers weren't trained to notice symptoms of learning disabilities and most parents definitely wouldn't know. The fact that they knew something was wrong and continued to insist on testing shows that they actually did notice something was wrong and it wasn't him just "not getting it". People today take the fact that there is instant access to information and it is widespread for granted. Back then, you probably wouldn't have known unless you happened to know someone who had already been diagnosed with it or happened across the right book.
My parents did the same to my older sister. So did her teachers. She was told so often by so many people that she was lazy and stupid that her self esteem was irreparably damaged for the rest of her life. She and my younger sister were diagnosed with cross dominance, a condition similar to dyslexia when the elder was 17 and the younger was 10. The damage was done. Meanwhile, I did not have it. I do have mild dyscalculia. It makes higher math impossible for me. Anything with letters and numbers and/or extra symbols doesn’t make sense to me. But the hardest thing was that from a young age I had to dumb down everything I did that was competitive like word games or math games on family game night. I had better spatial awareness so other games and puzzles, I had to sit turns out so they wouldn’t feel bad if I won a game. We had family game night every Sunday. We referred to it as enforced family fun. Only my younger sister enjoyed it because we were forced to always, always let her win. You can imagine what she’s like as an adult. I was also diagnosed with hyper activity. Even in those days they gave you mild stimulants like coffee or strong tea. All through middle school a group of students went to the guidance office twice a day for a coffee break. Nobody knew why so it was treated like a privilege for good behavior. I actually have bipolar 2 disorder and have had since a very young child. Diagnosed when I was 52. I had anorexia for 15 years. I have PTSD. My mother was physically abusive only when my dad was around.
It’s really hard to grow up that way.
It’s amazing something I think would be easily diagnosed today could be so devastating.
The dad would give his son who is having a lot of profound issues a gun, but won’t go to therapy with him. Good job, Dad. 👍🏽
yeah ppl are gunna shit on me for this but the dads a fkn joke.
RIGHT? What the entire fuck.
Exactly! Finally a comment about the gun gift! Omg, gun not hun. 🤣
I could not believe my ears
Did you listen? He locked the gun away and they went to shooting practice together. It was a bonding thing between them, so yes, good job dad, not in a sarcastic manner.
This piece of work already had a secret gun, he would have killed regardless of what his dad bought him.
Rip reasoning 🤦♀
mental health professional here. stopping medication and therapy when you feel better is unfortunately too common a trap people fall into. I try to tell my clients to think of mental health like a flower. You water it every day until it blooms, but you wouldn't stop watering it after that, because then it would wilt. So you have to keep watering it to maintain the beauty of the flower. Remember to keep watering your flowers everyone.
Lol! I fall for the I'm all better now EVERY damn time. I never learn.
But medications isn’t the best way I think always I think you should always try to look if you can take less in a bigger period of time medication just isn’t good I think for no one it would be good to be 50 years on anti depressants only if it is really necessary but what I see a lot is kids froom 12 on ritalin and for there whole life on this shit bcs they dont know else it’s not the best option
I also like to tell patients that some people need glasses to see, others need medications to function normally, you don't just stop wearing glasses
@@1esp1es98 Kids taking ritalin for adhd is very different from suicidal kids with paranoid schizophrenia taking medication, paranoid schizphrenia needs treatment with medication, some mental illnesses you can treat without medication but severe ones often need medication
My flower likes xanax
I’m a 16 yr old idiot and even I could tell he was dyslexic from where they said he was good at math and science and bad at reading. He seems like someone that could have EASILY been helped if everyone around him wasn’t completely incompetent.
His dad was out here saying “we’ve gotta send him to a wilderness camp, nothing else has worked 🥺” when therapy and anti depressants worked EXCELLENTLY. (Side note: I got changed to one anti depressant to another under medical supervision slowly and correctly and I felt AWFUL. I can’t imagine how he felt)
Speaking as a 45 year old idiot, you’re smarter than you give yourself credit for. He was clearly dyslexic and his parents, while well-intentioned, were completely clueless to help him. Having gotten off anti-depressants cold turkey, it was awful.
Yeah, going cold turkey is a special kind of hell.
@@carborundorum Oh yes, it really is!
I don't believe you're an idiot 💜
@@carborundorum try going cold turkey in a cold cell on a freezing concrete slab with hand cuffs, belly chains and leg shackles on with no kind of mattress or blanket or pillow. on top of that, every few hours someone pokes there head in and laughs at you. try going through this for 72 hours plus at the height of your detox. Now that is a very special kind of hell!
The way they needed the older sister to keep the family together feels so relatable and sad. Parents shouldn’t rely on their child to take care of the whole family.
My gf is the eldest in her family and I think it’s just how it goes with bad parents sometimes. Especially with girls. I’m an only child though so idk I’m just guessing.
the parents were dead, it didn't seem like to me in this case where she was forced to fill that role until when there was nobody else left. maybe i missed something but i did not hear much on her until after her letter to the judge which is the moment my eyes started to tear.
@@kswone1 at the beginning, the parents relied on her too much to mediate between them and Kip. That’s not her job :(
100% this. Relying on a child to carry the burden of an adult parent’s responsibility. I’m glad they eventually stepped up and went to therapy. But I’m sad that they just went back to the “disappointment” method when things were going well. Why change the strategy when it was working? Furthermore the “disappointment” didn’t work before, so why go back to something that didn’t work?
I know it’s easy to say for us on the outside looking in. It’s not to vilify the parents. Mistakes were made. we can all learn a lot from those mistakes. My heart breaks for Kip, hearing those journal entries, feeling so broken and alone. Feeling that disappointing his parents was the WORST thing in the world. Worse than killing them, himself, and all those people. No one should have to feel that way 😔😔 we should feel safe going to our parents. Unfortunately for some of us, that’s a luxury we don’t have.
and all the shooting victims and their families! Simply catastrophic. I wish schools had more mental health resources, counselors, classes, workshops. Hopefully, some day soon.
exactly my thoughts my heart goes out to her
This is one of those cases that just boggles the mind. This isn’t a spoiled narcissistic kid who does what he wants with no empathy or remorse. He needed help that he never got. Listening to his sobs is heartbreaking.
7:47 😂
Breaks my heart for this kid. This all could have been avoided. He needed help and support from his parents and he never received it until it was far too late.
And buying your disturbed, depressed child a gun, and another is such awful parenting!!!
I love that the parents noticed the kid's improvement after beginning medication and then freaked out about his subsequent downward spiral into delinquency after stopping the medication and never once thought "hmm.. maybe we should try that medication again".
@DNK it’s never too late to get better.
@DNK Totally agree. The USA's obsession with guns has gone too far. There are countries in the world who have banned gun ownership except for specific reasons, and they don't have this level of violence. Only the US is so self-destructive. I'm glad you made it ok. Like Kip said in his diary, he lived on hope. Until it ran out. May you always have hope!
The parents were clearly not very empathetic toward Kip. They viewed him as "the bad kid" and believed that he could become like "the good kid" (his sister) with a small fix. This is sadly a pretty common abusive family dynamic. His dyslexia caused him to under-perform in school, and his family believed that performance in school was a moral good, which meant that under-performance was a moral bad. Even at the end his father believed he was bad, and everything he did to act out was only confirming that belief.
Big Pharma doesn’t cure, big Pharma creates
@@sirensynapse5603 oh ok. I’m guessing you won’t, but care to elaborate?
“He’s starting to act the same way he did before meds and counseling and I know we stopped the meds and counseling that were helping him but now that his behavior has returned, we have no idea how to help him…”
Yeah I really don't understand. You'd think the parents would have had half a clue.
A clear example how one can have a formal education with advanced degrees and still be an idiot.
Thought victim blaming was a bad thing? It was 24 years ago, they can’t look any of this stuff up online and get the resources they would today. Also sounds like the doctor their son was seeing did not at all warn them about Prozac and sudden withdrawal, maybe it wasn’t even known at the time, I don’t know.
@@GG-kn2se I was around at that time and, yes, the side effects of stopping an antidepressant cold turkey was well known in the medical community AND any decent psychiatrist or doctor would have clearly this info relayed to patients. I was placed on my first antidepressant for my panic disorder in 1997 by my family doctor and that information was in all the packaging and shared with me by my doctor.
I’m not victim blaming his parents…they did make some mistakes throughout Kip’s life, but I do believe they deeply loved him and were trying to do their best.
The parents seem to be obsessed with education and intelligence, you'd think it would have made sense to them.
In his diary when he wrote “my eyes hurt. They hurt so fucking bad. They feel like they want to crawl out of my head”, that was definitely a withdrawal symptom. I’ve felt that and if I didn’t know that it was because of withdrawals, then I probably would’ve become hopeless too. This kid was going through mental pain but also physical pain from the withdrawals. It would’ve come on slowly so he would’ve not notice it as different. Slowly he’s in pain, homicidal and suicidal. I can’t imagine his torment.
Seriously, SSRI withdrawals are BRUTAL. Having unmedicated schizophrenia AND SSRI withdrawals? Must have been hell. I bet he felt like it was just a new symptom and he would feel like this forever. This was so fucking preventable. The pain this kid went through must have been unreal. I wish it didn't end the way it did.
they are hell. im stuck on paroxitine for over 20 years now cos the withdrawal makes me so ill
You can hear when he's crying that its not just emotional, he is in physical pain. SSRI withdrawls blend the 2 and it feels like you're in a boxing ring getting your clock cleaned. Add aggressive, hateful voices on top of that, along with the chaos of teenage hormones, and access to guns.... perfect recipe for catastrophe. I feel for him.
@@emmalynch3995 I’ve been on tramadol for years and gone through withdrawals from it twice, it is no joke. I feel like I want to chew my skin, I feel like every bone in my body is aching.
Im also on venlafaxine for depression/anxiety. I didn’t realise until after I was put on it that it can be extremely difficult to come off, because of the side effects. One of them being what is described as “brain zaps”. Wish I had just stayed on the other antidepressant
SSRI Withdrawals are fucking hell, i got off of them for a while but it made me literally look as if i started balding and i frequently felt as if my brain was being shocked . Fortunately my hair grew back and the shocks ended.
I wasn't prepared to hear Kip's voice. He was so young and needed so much help.
Same. He sounds way younger than I thought he would. What a horrible situation for everyone.
Yes😢
His dad is just as guilty. No question. So much could have been different had he been there for his family. Nobody/nothing else to blame.
@goingsnakespiritchaser the kid is a deranged psychopath and his parents couldn't have done anything more other than keep him on the mind numbing meds.
A therapist who looks at brain scans says that kips brain was THE MOSt damaged physically of anyone he had ever seen young or old in his career.
He said he either had SEVERE HYPOXIA at birth or a SEVERE infection causing brain damage.
For everybody who's watching this and who's deaf and depends on the subtitles. I want to clarify that there's no laughter or music like it says. The Boy is crying all the time and is completely desperate for what he has done. He can hardly talk. The detective's talking very quiet with him trying to figure out what went on in his head, why this all happened
I’ve got good hearing and was using headphones.. what a struggle. I get it was 1998? I think but it’s like they recorded it under the water. The subtitles barely got me through it too. Lol
@@bravo795mp , you got a simulation of what it's like to be hard of hearing or have auditory processing disorder
The best metaphor for auditory processing disorder, as I experience it, comes from audio mixing
Ideally, a song will be mixed with different elements in different audio channels. One channel for lead vocals, one channel for backup vocals, one channel for melody, one channel for percussion, etc.
But sometimes a song is mixed poorly, like one of The Stooges' albums (I think Raw Power). I remember reading about how Iggy Pop gave the audio to David Bowie, and Bowie was horrified to find that all the vocals were in one channel and all the instruments were in another channel. That was it, no other channels.
My brain with auditory processing disorder gets overwhelmed by multiple sounds. It mixes everything into one or two channels, making it difficult to discern specifics (e.g., the beat of a song amongst the vocals and melody, speech amongst background noise).
@@janeeyre1990 Gatekeeping hearing impairment is badass!
@@lilpukey he's not gatekeeping it wtf he's explaining it
@@bravo795mp english is not my first language, so imagine my struggle trying to hear that interview lol but i think i did pretty fine, i could understand almost everything and even noticed the mistakes in the subtitles. I'm proud of myself for that lol
I don’t normally feel sympathy or empathy for these types of cases ( involving the harm of kids and schools ) but I can’t help but feel like screaming about how this never would have happened if someone had just taken the time to listen to him. This wasn’t some sociopathic spoiled brat who wanted to be “ famous “ but a kid genuinely crying out for help.
not to mention he had paranoid schizophrenia that he felt unable to tell his parents about due to feeling ashamed
It’s true though, his parents essentially shamed him for being different from his sister and basically casted him as a problem child instead of looking for proper help for many years of his life, if he had continued therapy and stayed on his medicine this might’ve been avoided. He was failed at so many points in his life.
@@toast3591 knowledge about mental health was nowhere near as comprehensive or accessible in the 70s, 80s, and 90s like it is now. the moment i heard about his struggles in school i assumed he had dyslexia, but i can see how parents during that era would A) have no idea what that is, and B) be completely at a loss for why their two children could be so vastly different. it's pretty obvious from this video that his parents *did* try to help him through therapy, bonding over guns which he claimed to be cathartic and not violent in nature, and medication.
@@toast3591 no they didnt. They did no different than most parents in that time would have. I have a brother with schizoaffective disorder & remember the beginning years of it for him that started around the time he was in 6th-7th grade & was all the way going when he was in the 8th grade in 1989/90 (i would have been in 5th) . There are already hormonal & other changes in preteens/teens, actual behavior problems & just normal teen rebellion already then you throw in mental heath- mental health was always the very last thing looked into back then (if ever). If my brothers mental illness wasnt as severe(violent) as it was he likely wouldnt have recieved any help back then either. He was already expelled from school for assaulting one of his best friends since 1st grade (think his 10th grade year) by the time he finally got a specific diagnosis. Then it was another good 5yrs of trying different medications before he was finally stabilized on a routine- one that finally didnt make his psychosis/violent outbursts even worse. They didnt "shame" him? Yeah he was treated different, all kids are in one way or another. And he did do things to put hisself in the "problem child" category. Parents arent mind readers & while in therapy he didnt even reveal his worst illness- the one that includes the homicidal ideation trait
@@6235river Yes!! Omg!! I thought dyslexia at the beginning too, my son started having trouble in 2nd grade and teacher's labeled it as being "bad" then I pushed to get him tested and guess what... He was dyslexic 😲 shocker 😄
I noticed Kip had a very high level of self-awareness. He wanted help so badly but he just couldn't get it for himself... This case just hurts to even think about.
Lol ya he wanted help so bad he murdered people. You are an absolute moron
hurts a lot more if you're a sperg and can see what went wrong a mile away
god people don't get it
Well said. I also noticed how well he communicated his thoughts and feelings. Sadly, he still struggled with those alone. It's all so tragic. 💔
Can't agree more with this sentence. He seemed to have a certain level of self-awareness AND the idea that what he was going through is not normal. I hope people see this case as a call to action on how to make things better and not let so many people slip through the cracks...
It really is such a shitty case 😢
this is utterly heartbreaking. I’ve never believed that a perpetrator was remorseful more than kip. if only he got help sooner and stuck to the meds, maybe they’d all still be here
This doesn’t make it ok he need jail time
Giving a person, let alone a child, access to guns when it’s known that they are struggling mentally, emotionally, and behaviorally is never a good idea.
And just imagine that in the United States we have enough REGISTERED guns floating around to arm every man, woman, child, and all betwixt and between at least once. Now imagine all the guns we DON'T know about added on top. And then we wonder why everyone is shooting everyone.
instead of letting him feel loved and accepted, they allowed him to have guns. In my opinion this was pure unintentional childabuse
It’s nuts
Absolutely.
While simultaneously taking him away from the things that had been helping him. Seems to me that they needed to keep him down.
Bill Kinkel: talking to a psychologist is nonsense.
Also Bill Kinkel: brb I need to talk to this stranger at the airport about all of my problems.
Oh no, that sounds exactly like something my mom would do and has done in a grocery store. It was awkward. Good thing Kip's experience isn't universal growing up in Oregon 👍🏻
Bill: "I'm so glad my son is finally doing better with the help of therapy and medication"
Also Bill: "I'm going to make sure my son stops all this therapy and medication nonesene"
I have seen this a whole lot.
@@korseygorle955 "yea that's enough of that. Everything is now fine and the issues no longer exist or need to be addressed"
Bruh 😑
Well trauma dumping on stranger at Airport is free.99!
I could tell by the way he cried, there was a tremendous amount of remorse. Most shooters don't have this remorse, but I feel Kip really loved his family and felt bad he did this. Peace be with you
Although MANY young people who commit awful, violent crimes do NOT suffer with debilitating mental illnesses we don’t often know which individuals do. It’s extremely rare to see balanced sympathetic documentaries like this. Countless true crime channels (AND television shows) never go into this detail.
Remorse doesn't bring back lives though.
@@skycloud4802 it doesn't. But true remorse is important none the less.
@@skycloud4802 The blood is not on his hands alone. He should have never been taken off of medication like that or not in counseling.
Didnt he brag about killing cats before?
Knowing the dad said to him "I want to give your mom one last good day" Is so awful! This poor kid could've been helped and all of this prevented.
As someone that was born and raised in Oregon, I was always told that Kip was evil and an anomaly. It’s so heartbreaking to see the reality of the situation. This can happen to so many kids in our society and the only way to stop it is to acknowledge the truth of the situations in the past. Kip was severely struggling and I’m glad to know that his sister still stands by him to this day.
Same! i literally JUST had to explain it to someone. i live in Springfield so ive heard rhis stuff forever and it wasn't until i learned about it myself on my own research that i knew the full story. They make him out to be a boogeyman here when compared to any other school shootings, this one is the most tragic as his entire life was also a struggle, he wasnt some spoiled brat who decided to to it for attention and had lack of care for others, he was so unwell and was crying out for help in the most tragic and violent way possible
no columbine shooters were evil...this kid had a severe illness and had remorse...
I went to a school in Springfield where a few of the faculty were deeply connected to this story and were victims on the tragedy. They were so careful about how they discussed the situation. Not what could be said about everywhere else.
My family had just moved to the Eugene/Springfield area a few years prior. Infuriating that the story we were always told is so wildly different. My sister is Kip's age and she was struggling with medication induced depression when nobody understood why at the same time, Accutane! 20 years ago the mental healthcare in Lane county was a joke, I wonder if it's improved?
@@ghoulishtoad the columbine shooters were made fun of & bullied. They had struggles. You only feel bad for this kid because the narrator was sympathetic and presented Kip in a sympathetic way. He killed his parents, ok, that would fit his crazy/being a dissapointment thing... but why go to the school to kill people? They had nothing to do with it. He was pissed. Said so in his journal in this video. Think for yourself
As horrible as what he did is, and my heart guess out to the victims and their families, I also feel terrible for Kip. He was practically BEGGING for help, and his parents flat out ignored it, and chose to take him off of the meds that were helping him.
I also want to point out how amazing the detective that talked to him was. He was great at trying to keep him calm, speaking to him with some compassion, without coddling, while also being the information needed.
not practically! LITERALLY begging for help!
I agree this investigator did a great job. Keeping Kip talking & not judging him. I know it’s his job. But he kept his voice at a gentle tone. Didn’t come across as accusing Kip.
This child just breaks my heart. And the children he killed families. Will never get over their loss. Neither will his sister. She’s basically lost her entire family. He most likely will spend the rest of his life in jail. 😢
@@oragamifreak421
Yeah, you're right.
Dude. Kip was plucked out of struggling in the US and thrown into not knowing a NEW LANGUAGE in a school that couldn't support him. WTF. Most selfish parents I've heard of in a long time (well, other than the cases where parents kill their children for sake of their own social lives)
Nope. Sorry. You still don't get to go kill people.
I was so conflicted throughout this entire video. Hearing Kip's backstory and then his sobs and regret was heartbreaking, and knowing the shooting could've been avoided is equally as upsetting. He was clearly begging for help and had it taken away before he got the chance to fully heal.
But the victims' testimonies had me torn. Their life was ripped apart in a matter of hours, and Kip's actions left them with mental and physical scars that will never go away. Knowing Kip's backstory, their testimonies may seem harsh. However, I kept reminding myself of the consequences they will have to deal with for the rest of their lives, for simply existing in an environment they thought was safe.
It was especially brutal when the one kid that tackled him compared Kip to a rabid dog and asked why he hasn't been put down. Jesus Christ. I get that their lives changed forever in those moments but I can't help but feel bad that he wanted to die already and this kid said he should have been put down. It was a self fulfilling prophecy but I 1000000% blame his parents for this outcome.
I think it's fair to feel bad for both
They bullied him.
I completely understand the victims hate, anger, and pain for what Kip did. I just don’t think Kip was fully responsible because of his severe mental illnesses and the fact that he was still a child (understanding of consequences are not fully realized at that age because the brain is not fully developed). He was wronged by being taken off his medication and stopping therapy so abruptly, so to act like this was a completely sane and stable individual that understood his thought process and actions is unfathomable to me. I understand the victims are speaking from their pain and not from logic, reason, or understanding-but I really hate the stigma of severe mental illness and how misunderstood it is. This is why Kip killed his parents and those kids-because of that same stigma. People don’t realize it, but painting people like Kip as just evil instead of taking the time to understand mental illness and the impact it can have on people and children is what allows these kinds of crimes to continue. We can’t help mentally ill people get better if we say they are crazy or evil, and it just perpetuates the cycle of abuse and violence. I wonder what Kip’s victims think about him today after all the knowledge we have of mental illness.
@@LaNoturna
How about them bullying him? Hmmmmm
When you said the parents used disappointment as discipline, that made something click in my head, about my own childhood. I always wondered why I felt so hurt by my parents and it's because they did the same thing. Just shows how profound it is getting those wires crossed without support. Luckily I had other family members that were less disappointed and got where I was coming from
During that police interview all I could hear was the sound of years of pent up mental issues and the sound of ultimate sadness. There are some people who are legit monsters. This kid was just a broken boy who broke the world around him. It's heartbreaking to hear that interview. It made me cry.
I'm nearly crying as well listening right now... completely agree.
I'm sat sobbing listening to his interview. He's just a broken kid 💔 it's utterly heartbreaking all round 😓
"A child will bring down a village to receive the warmth it was denied"
im thinking of stopping watching altogether... occasionally a case will bring me to tears but never has one made me cry like this.
There is a reason for the cop asking those first questions "When you bought that gun yesterday, did you buy it with the intention of hurting someone?" Then the kid said his brain doesn't work right. Next question "Did you know that buying the gun was the right thing to do, or the wrong thing to do?" His response... I knew it was the wrong thing to do. That totally kills any chance of insanity or not being of such intelligence to distinguish right from wrong. I truly believe that whenever this kid got into trouble it just pissed him off. He was not raised right period. Only child syndrome was a factor here. He is a spoiled little pecker head period.
God this case sounds so frustrating so far. At every turn there feels like huge failings on the part of everyone. It's like staring at an oncoming train
Lies at the feet of the parents.
@@DaylightDisinfectant As much I don't want to victim blame, I can't help but feel that had they better understood him, none of this would've happened. Especially with his therapy.
@@0uttaS1TE you’re crazy, you say you don’t want to victim blame but never mentioned the four people that this piece of garbage killed or the 20 plus he injured.
@@0uttaS1TE His parents tried reaching out to him, well his mom mostly did. He's not the victim in this! He also got a sawed-off shotgun from his friends.
@@Neku628 I never said he was a victim in this. I said it was frustrating, and that there were huge failings on the part of everyone on how to prevent this, himself included. It is a cavalcade of bad decisions.
Gold star for this investigator, holy god. His tone was what this tormented kid needed and his calming words and affirmations were so professional.
Even now, a lot of people would see how the interrogator operated as weak and going soft on a killer. That he managed to do this 25 years ago AND be in law enforcement? Imagine how rare that kind of person is NOW, and then consider how much rarer in ‘98.
@@Bluecedor yeah and he never lost his cool it just felt ethical
Especially after the kid tried to stab him too. He handled everything so perfectly. I know his job was to get as much info out as possible to most likely be used against him in court, and cops aren't your friends, but his tone and words were perfect and exactly what kip needed in that moment.
Just hearing this for the first time…. I AM AMAZED at the true professionalism of this investigator. Don’t ever change the way you sir! You are a true asset to your Dept.
God bless you and ALL OF THE individuals involved.
His parents truly failed him. Them using his older sister to communicate instead of just talking to him is just insane
I would disagree I think his parents did about as ,uch as they could given the circumstances if anything I think he was more so a victim of his era where society as whole didn't know jack or shit about ,ental health or how things like excess stress, societal pressure, bullying etc. could exacerbate mental health issues and due to the music of that era teenage angst was at a level not scene in decades prios his parents made mistakes but they also weren't abusive physically or mentally did take measures to try and help their son and ultimately were guilty of not being informed on a topic A LOT of parents of that time were informed on
His parents were great people..I lived in this town. His Father was my teacher in HS. This documentary is BS.
@@PrettyFLY4aWiFi.Yup. This youtuber just makes stuff up.
@@bobbowie9350 right! Hes making it out to be that kip was the victim. Cant believe this BS.
I also disagree. My parents relied on my older sister to interpret my behavior as a child. Probably kept me out of the nuthouse.
I couldn't finish this one. Hearing him sob about how he loved his parents and felt he'd ruined their lives... Just so sad. A parent's disappointment can be the most horrible thing. You feel like you hurt them just by existing. Especially if you try your best to make them proud and no matter what you just seem to make them more and more upset.
If Kip was a psychopath he wouldn't CARE if his parents were disappointed.
He obviously made a terrible wrong choice, but I do feel this could have been prevented and it's so sad that he couldn't have kept going to therapy, as I think his parents (while well meaning) didn't understand mental illness like depression let alone schizophrenia.
I'm really glad Kip is doing better now. In a way he's actually happier in prison than he ever was before.
And the amount of empathy he feels for victims... Good for him. Not excusing what he did. But I'm glad he's doing good things for others now.
It didn't hit me how young he was until I listened to the clip. I thought to myself 'wow, he's just a baby. That poor kid'
I agree with you completely. Terrible situation all the way around
We don't like to admit it but sometimes parents don't love their child. How "well meaning" could those parents have been? Stopping meds and therapy while buying the kid a gun. His parents may have been victims but I think they were horrible the way they treated this poor kid.
I cried I’m not gonna lie I’ve been in the pain he was still am this poor baby
@@auntieclara1811
That, and also sometimes parents have best intentions at heart even ..but don't go about it the right way for that child to understand properly, and the child ends up fd up for life. I'm one of such "kids" (not a kid anymore, struggling to keep sane).
I'm on that part now where he's crying and came to see if the comments vilified him much. This kid deserved proper psychiatric care, but instead they gave him guns. Why why why keep rifles near your depressed child? Were the both of them (and everyone else, cousins, neighbors, etc) that unaware of his mental state....which is even visible in his eyes in that picture on screen...
Just heartbreaking. Thinking if I can last through the interrogation.. his mental & emotional damage is so painful to hear. It's like hearing myself... in a universe where I could do something like this.
Also, people are allowed to feel sympathy for this boy, AND STILL and still think his actions were wrong and mourn the victims. My heart still breaks for Kip, but I also know his actions were terrible.
👏🏼 Two things can be true at the same time.
exactly, what he did was horrific, but seeing what led up to it, you can understand why he felt it was all he could do
My sympathy ends when someone harms other people unrelated to their trauma. Millions of people have the horrible combination of untreated mental illness and a shitty home life. But you know what they don't do? Buy a gun a shoot at innocent people.
@@mikepagebrand nobody is arguing against that, but we can empathize with both the victims and the perpetrator
they're not mutually exclusive
Ditto. Well said. 😢
You gotta feel for the sister. Losing all of her family at once, all the hate being thrown at her brother, and probably feel like she could've stopped it in some way. It's sad, but she is also strong not hating her brother for what he had done, but forgiving. Probably somethign most families wouldn't do if in the same situation.
She used to visit him in kid prison. I know because I sat next to them
it's beyond heartbreaking; i hope she doesn't blame herself in any way. it really sounds like she already did more than a child could possibly be asked to do in such a situation.
I remember the media being all over her, in Hawaii. This also occurred just after Oregon had passed a law stating that parents can be held accountable for their minor children’s crimes, such as this. I remember wondering about the wisdom of this law considering if they hadn’t been killed, they may likely have become the “poster children” for this law. They did, in fact, teach Kip how to use the gun. These parents did do the best they could. They tried getting help for him any way they could.
@@michelleb7399 I would argue the parents here did far from "the best they could". They gave a mentally ill child guns. they cut his meds cold turkey without listening to a doctor. they stopped the therapy that was helping him. They didn't do nearly enough for this child, and far from their best
Didn't the shrink say that firearms where good for the kid???
That ending was the most bitter sweet conclusion for someone who committed such a horrendous crime. He was trapped in that mental prison and no one understood him until it was already too late. But not only did he found himself in prison thanks to the psychiatrists that he was denied in youth, Kip is now advocating for minors to have a second chance in life
Telling your kid you’re disappointed in them as a form of punishment is really a recipe for disaster. You should never withhold love from them. Especially over things like grades/ interactions with classmates. It’s important to know that your parents will always love you so you feel like you can tell them things even if they’re not good. No wonder he felt so isolated and kept so much to himself. Poor kid.
lol The worst thing his parents ever did to him was tell him they were disappointed in his shitty behavior. You sound like you'd be offended by almost anything and consider someone not waving back at you as a personal attack.
@@distantandvague Kip went his entire life struggling with undiagnosed illnesses and disabilities and that I relate to HEAVILY. I don't think his parents were horrible people but they just could not adjust their learning style to Kip. This made Kip feel out of control throughout his whole life and I can also speak from experience that when one feels like you're a constant dissapointment to everyone around you. You're going to act out, it doesn't excuse anything but his parents were negligent, they let their stigma of mental health get in the way. A parent or guardian telling you, you're a dissapointment hurts more than anything especially when you're dealing with untreated mental illnesses.
@@distantandvague …. Relax lmao. I said using disappointment as a form of punishment isn’t a good idea. I’m not saying that telling your kids you’re disappointed them is a bad thing. Seeing as you went right for a personal attack, I would assume you’re a sensitive little guy
I think it's the shame associated with having disappointed one's loved one's that leads one to withhold love from themselves that can be the most damaging.
This kid seemed to lack self worth. I think it was due to being bullied by his peers and his mental health issues, rather than his upbringing.
I agree…a good ass whipping goes a long way!
This is truly THE most distressing interview to listen to. This case is just so utterly heartbreaking all round.
I totally agree i couldnt get halfway through his interview I fast forwarded now to the end walk through
So so sad, everyone failed him. God loves you Kip.
Sounds oddly like you're advocating for Kip, but like that VICTIM said, I'm not buying it, rich boy with loving parents, popular at school, on the football team, had access to therapy & meds, & still chose to hurt others. I've dealt with mind-shattering life-altering experiences again & again, & through it all I've kept my cool. I've wanted to hurt myself, but never did. I've NEVER wanted to hurt others, because I was raised to believe that's not right & it's not fair. There's NO gd excuse.
@@erkl8823 clearly you didn't listen well to this video. They completely stopped therapy and meds as soon as the script was over. He was not popular and was severely bullied. and had alot of issues with mental health that noone addressed. Just because you haven't struggled with actual self harm or thoughts of hurting others doesn't mean others don't.
@@erkl8823 sounds oddly like you’re advocating for improper treatment of those with mental health problems. You cannot speak for everyone and just because you’re depressed and dealt with things doesn’t mean everyone else should handle it the same as you. You sound like you’re shaming those who have self harmed and shaming those who have more trouble controlling their emotions which is the exact type of treatment that Kip got which pushed him to do these things. You should not be watching videos like this if you cannot take a step back and learn from them.
His interview was one of the hardest ones I’ve ever had to listen to. To hear his crimes and mental state and then the voice of a scared child was just heartbreaking. Mental health is so important and this child deserved help.
He sounds so young and so distraught. Just a child with serious mental health problems and access to a gun. So easily avoided 😢
i’ve been on prozac since I was 15 (i’m 21 now) and it literally saved my life. i’ve tried going off of it slowly, cold turkey, and even replacing it and every time I start to feel “unstable”. that’s the word I always use when speaking with my therapists/doctors. it feels like the tiniest thing could make me explode in sadness, anger, hopelessness, etc
I was forced to stop cold turkey because I lost my health insurance when I turned 18 and I came very close to ending my life. I can’t imagine how frustrating it was to have his parents make him stop taking the medication that was giving him a sense of stability
i knew he was 14 or 15 when the shooting occurred, but HEARING how young he was in the interrogation made me cry. he was a child. it doesn't excuse what he did. it just really hit me since i work with kids.
Talking about it after the fact made me cry. He sounds so young and broken. I told my fiance earlier that Kip sounds like a child when he cries...which is not a belittling statement from me, because he was a child. His voice hadn't even fully changed. Pile age on top of mental health problems and it's heartbreakingly sad all around.
this kid wasn't evil. he did awful acts, awful crimes, but he was not acting out of sadism or self-interest. He had a mental illness that made him think removing people from his life was saving them from his (believed) incurable wrongness. I taught kids his age and they are so fucking young. It's hard enough dealing with mental illness as an adult, let alone a kid with an underdeveloped brain. And in some ways, it's harder dealing with shit like this when you're intelligent, because it makes it harder to lie to yourself or ignore signals from people around you that reinforce your own misperceptions. This case is just so fucking sad for all the victims and the perpetrator. This didn't have to be his life. You can tell he had true remorse for his actions and didn't want things to be like this.
@@gayvinmcginnes2508 I agree with you. For some reason, he popped into my head last night. I hope he's doing all right. It's awful what happened, but I truly believe what he did wasn't out of malice.
I always find it interesting when the word "excuse" is used when referring to crimes like this. Despite popular belief, people who struggle with mental disorders can't control their thoughts. I'm not saying they can't reach out for help, but in this boy's case, he just wasn't mature enough to know who to reach out to. It's all just one big tragedy all around. 💔
he was so lost
They stopped his meds as he was better? Nice to see the thought of ‘maybe he is better due to the meds so he needs to continue them’ didn’t cross their minds at all. This really highlights the need for better education regarding mental health treatment/education for everyone.
And especially stopping the meds cold turkey instead of weaning him off of them, and stopping therapy at the same time. This in no way excuses what he did, but for people to accuse him of faking the mental illness despite all the evidence to the contrary isn't helping anything.
@@KelseyGoesKaBoom Exactly! Any physician will tell you that the most dangerous thing you can do is to stop taking your medication without being weaned off! Major red flags throughout this whole story, sadly :(
Psych meds were still new at the time, most people thought of medicine as something you take until you feel better. We didn’t know as much about them as we do now.
this happened in the 90s lol
Either they ignored the doctor who advised them not to stop cold turkey or they were not told this information by the doctor - either way this decision was a detrimental turning point and they would have been better off staying with the therapist rather than dropping both at the same time .
Some people have the idea that some issues have an insta-fix - this situation was not one of them...
This boy's family failed him. He was screaming for help and they ignored him time and time again. What a tragic case all around.
Id argue that his mom tried harder than 99% of parents. She took him to a therapist and got him on rx medication. That is HUGE for the 90s. You can't use today's science and mental health knowledge to judge 30 years ago.
@@ehall6985 I'm sorry, but speaking as someone who was alive in the 90s, the idea someone with major mental issues still needed therapy and meds was NOT some new thing that was invented in the 00s.
It WAS a know thing back then.
Are we better about understanding mental health issues now than back then? Absolutely, but the 90s wasn't the fucking dark ages.
I'll admit maybe I'm biased because I have family that have had severe mental issues, but if my family realized my Schizophrenic relative needed to continue on his meds in the fucking 50s, I have little sympathy for folks who thought "The symptom is gone, so the disease is gone" a full 40 years later.
Today's kids look at the 90s like everyone else sees the 50s, feel old yet?
I dont know, I think they did the best they could. and this type of thing develops over a loooong period of time. hindsight is a bitch. but again, there are some things that are out of a parents control. I think the mom and dad did quite a bit
@@TonySamedi umm, the SSRI he was on was new, and he didn't even need them. He's schizophrenic, not depressed. Some SSRIs make schizophrenia worse. Blaming parents for not being psychiatrists and having no other family with anywhere near close to the same issue as Kip? Really lol??????
Kips sister sounds incredibly resillient and insightful. The letter she wrote the judge is amazing
The siblings were interviewed recently for an article in The New Yorker. Very interesting read. I’m glad Kip has her, it seems as though they’ve really been each other’s lifelines through the years.
It’s crazy because in the end he manned up more than 90% of the criminals we hear about and he really is helping make the world a better place while still atoning for his wrong doing and selflessly at that by not advocating for himself to get out of prison. Sadly prison is probably the most stable environment he’s ever been in with the treatment he’s receiving. Thank you for the video.
@@lorishu48103 Persecuting those who are genuinely seeking redemption, is how you end with even more extreme violence.
Don't be an Anti-human pos.
@@lorishu48103 it is a tragedy, but it is also tragic that so many people failed this kid. This was preventable
@Bob Seiger a murder is not human.
@@m-free6121 He failed himself lol
@@drzaius8430 What do you call a soldier
This was my high school. This happened my senior year and is the last thing I really remember until graduation a few weeks later. I was in the parking lot when it was happening and was rushed to the nearest classroom to hide. We watched everyone get wheeled out to ambulances because of the dark room we were all hiding in was closest to the entrance. This haunts so many of us to this day that were there. I know many with PTSD from this shooting. It’s sad beyond words, as is absolutely every single one that happened after. From the comments I see you did his story justice and how this could have been prevented but I just can’t finish.
Lisa, I think you are so brave for commenting and sharing your story.
I went to columbine for a short semester and lived by the high school almost my whole life. I was not alive during the shooting but like most who attended columbine, I was affected by it.
What we need more of in society today, is empathy, understanding, and love. I think you perfectly reflected all three of those things in your comment on this video.
I hope you are doing well now, and are living life to the fullest. 💕
It's all right. I'm praying for you and all those who lived through the nightmare of that day, and I don't think there's anything wrong with not being able to finish this.
Yes, he did a really good job with this video. A very good job.
Thank you for sharing how this affected you. My heart breaks for all of you who were there and/or later impacted by this shooting.
why would “they” take you into a classroom, into the building where the shooting is happening, when you were outside? that doesn’t make any sense
@@paigebeepboop4488 None of it makes sense...a freshman in our high school came to SHOOT people, but I will explain in more detail this traumatic experience so you can understand. I was parked in the Senior lot, which is in front of the cafeteria, which is where the shooting was happening at that time. We were told to run away from there to our first period classrooms, if possible, as long as it was away from the cafeteria. I'm sure the thinking by the adults at the time, was that it would be easiest to account for people there once the school was cleared. We didn't know if there was more than one person at the time, so we shut the curtains to add the classroom, turned the lights off, and hid in the back away from the windows and doors. If you don't believe me, then there are HUNDREDS of other people there that would attest to it.
@@paigebeepboop4488 Also, if you look up how Thurston High is set up, it would make sense. There is no "inside" the building. It's all breezeway outside, so each classroom opens to the outside.
For anyone saying “but the parents didn’t know any better” before stopping the kids therapy- you’re right. However, they actively saw their son spiral out /again/ and still chose not to put him back in.
Their lack of critical thinking/pattern recognition is the most disappointing thing about this case.
....again ..1998. Totally different times. I mean...our president had Monica under a desk. It just wasn't like it is...today.
@@jenngibbs4559 I’m talking about common sense, not extensive knowledge of mental health issues. It doesn’t take too many brain cells to see your kid relapsing and go “hm maybe I should get him help again”
The history of their son's mental health should have told them what to do . I get so angry at parents that do this to their children. He got better because of the medicine, so don't stop taking it! I'm so sad over this. Proper medication would have made a difference for all affected with this tragic story.
@@jenngibbs4559 one of the most non sequiturs of all time
The hell they didn’t know better. They were more concerned about how it would look that their kid was in therapy and on drugs. That’s how people were in the 90s. Being mentally I’ll meant you were a “psycho” and it was something to be embarrassed about. Why didn’t they consult the therapists before letting him go off his meds? Because they knew they’d argue against doing that. They knew better.
the fact that the family moved and made Kip attend Kindergarten in a foreign country... huge selfish move on the parents part... if he hadn't have missed that fundamental year, maybe he might have had more of a chance instead of remaining confused and frustrated with his abilities 😢 this case is so so so sad
Well that definitely didn't help matters but the truth is kip had a learning disability until that got diagnosed and treated it really wouldn't have mattered where he went he was going to struggle with English and writing
@@johndavis9321it’s crazy to this day he still has not been put in a mental institution.
@@DMRJ53 yeah but apparently while locked up they got him on the correct meds and apparently his mental health is doin much better today so that's a good thing
@@johndavis9321 oh that’s good to hear.
Immigration/emigration, even in adults, is massively correlated with higher chance of depression, anxiety, even psychosis and schizophrenia
When my daughter was 14, she had a close male friend who was suffering from mental illness like this. After the school, doctors, people that interacted with him, had finally worn down his parents, they finally sought him mental health care. The psychiatrist put him on Prozac and made it clear to his parents that he needed to stay regular on the meds and not abruptly stop taking them. I had a phone call with his mother about 5 mos later and told her that I was seriously scared for him and what he might do to himself or others. She scoffed at me and told me he was doing great. Not long after that, they allowed him to suddenly stop taking the meds. He called my daughter from his cell and then jumped from the third story of the mall, landing on a table in the food court below. All while my daughter was still on the phone.
It took her a long time to finally accept she couldn't have helped save him, but I understood because a small part of me wondered if I could have convinced mom that things were not ok, if it wouldn't have happened, even though deep down I knew that this wasn't true.
Lots of sad stories of red flags that don't get adequately addressed in time.
What a tragic story. I try to cope by thinking lives like that young man’s served the purpose of a cautionary tale. Hopefully his mother has by now sought help herself. It’s horrible she had to learn this lesson in such a harsh way.
Parents like that should have their children taken away
I am so, so sorry for your daughter. I lost my best friend to suicide at 12 years old because of her untreated mental illnesses and even though I'm 20 now, i still have crying fits, nightmares and grieving episodes when i can't even leave my bed. I also have schizoid personality disorder and almost went the same path as Kip. I hope your daughter knows her friend is forever thankful for her support and that she is a wonderful, caring person. This is something you never really heal from, but she will learn to live with it as I did. Wishing the best for you and her ❤
@Jame Moself prozac does work…
Damn, that interview near enough brought me to tears as a grown man. This is a deeply upsetting case and I just feel so unbelievably sorry for everyone involved. Those poor students, those poor parents and that poor kid. So preventable, so tragic.
And his poor frickin SISTER, god. It's just unimaginably sad from so many angles...
I'm feeling my eyes sting as I listen to this interrogation audio. Absolutely a heartbreaking case all around
I was only 4 days cold turkey on my antidepressants due to a restock error and it was some of the most agonizing days of my life. I found myself unable to eat or leave the house, due to fear I would actively try to kill myself. I was in fear of my own emotions, that antagonized the most precious people in my life, and I felt the worst desperation I had ever felt. those were only the psychological effects it had me. now imagine on top of that the horrible feeling of sickness that overcame my body. at the end of the day, the system failed this boy. professionals should’ve educated their parents better, treatment should’ve been continued, and he never EVER should’ve gotten his hands on a gun
I had a similar issue were it took 2 weeks to get my refill. I had nausea, my suicidal thoughts where almost constant and I had mild auditory and visual hallucinations. It took a week for withdrawals to calm down but suicidal thoughts persisted. Then I was sick for a week getting back on. The thoughts were gone but I was numb, dazed and still having mild hallucinations for a that week after starting. For the record I don't normally hallucinate that's just how bad it messed me up.
Oh man, you're right! I was on Zoloft and I had to get off of it just because of the "brain zaps" you get when you don't take it. I think it took about six months to a year for them to go away. Now I'm on Lexapro and things are MUCH better! I had forgotten all about that!
Restock error!? Get lemonade health. That’s never happened to me.
@@darrenmuse "brain zaps" is such a good way to describe it. I described it as my brain being "wavy". Same happens to me if I forget to take my Cymbalta (on for chronic pain plus the depression that goes w it). I would have night sweats, hot & cold, can't get comfortable, and have restless "body" (not just restless legs). Same coming off of effexor, gabapentin, Lyrica, any of those kinds of depression or pain meds.
With mine, I have a three day window. But sweet Jesus, after the third day I’m working on my will. Withdrawal from those types of meds are SO much more serious that most let on to. It’s a horrible situation, but it’s even more awful when someone who genuinely wouldn’t hurt anyone while on their meds. The co fusion is probably so strong.
He is horrible for what he did, but I do feel less than ounce of pity for him.
oh my god, antidepressant withdrawal is not a joke. a doctor messed up my meds and i switched too abruptly between meds, and oh my god, it was a whole month of hell. i feel so bad for him. also, THE DAD WHO KEEPS BUYING HIM GUNS AS A REWARD IS INSANE
God as a kid who was also VERY suicidal and mentally ill around the same age, this was a hard listen. I still struggle, but this case is just almost staring at myself if I haven't been able to get help. Mental illness is a real illness, and it doesn't get cured. It gets better, but it never goes away.
agreed. I empathize so much with this kid, recognize myself in so many aspects.
@@joinspace3864 Do you also have paranoid schizophrenia with auditory hallucinations? _Mental illness_ is a massive subject.
@@a_lucientes No but I struggled with the feeling of an entity whispering evil shit in My brain as a child.
@@joinspace3864 I hope youre doing well now. It sounds like it. Everything is a process. For many, the younger years are the most difficult. If issues come up, reach out for help, even if it's just someone to talk to.
I just want to note, (separate from the topic of the video,) that recovery from mental illness is possible depending on the person and factors of their illness, as mental illness is a broad term to umbrella over both short term and long term mental illnesses.
For example, in some cases people may experience a single, limited period of depression, but are able to recover after addressing the root issue(s), while others may show to have long term depressive disorders that might not prove to be permanently recoverable, and instead require mental health maintenance to live one's life with the illness. A quality life is potentially attainable regardless of full recoverability. Mental illness is like physical illness in so many ways, especially in how varied the factors are, including diagnoses, presentation, possible outcomes, and the necessary maintenance for quality of life.
I'm sorry if this sounds like a lecture or a bad essay. It's a topic I care a lot about and I think it's important for people to understand these details. If you're seeing this, best wishes to you.
I find the parents very frustrating in this case.
Dude same!!! Especially the dad! Like I understand supporting ur kids love for something but seriously-how many guns does a fcking 16 year old need JFC…& why would u take him out of therapy & off meds
As a mentally ill person also diagnosed with major depressive disorder I can tell u, taking some1 off their anti depressants is the WORST thing u can do to them omg
They were definitely to blame for his state. I wouldn't say they deserved to die, but pretty much they brought it upon themselves.
Agreed!!💯 #davesandersstepdaughter
So did he.
I can't believe they took him out of therapy and had him stop taking his medicine bro that was was made me scream. You dont do that.
As a mental health professional, this frustrates me and ngl, I feel a lot of sympathy. I mean, I groaned so loud after hearing when he finally got help and medication and then his parents just abruptly stopped all of it. His parents weren't horrible to him or even bad parents, they just really didn't know what they were doing and... the entire case is sad for everyone involved.
His dad called him hopeless. I think that’s pretty horrible.
@@NotesNNotes they failed him. I don't think this can be contested... like many parents I think they truly loved him. but loving your children and failing them are not mutually exclusive. loving them and having the best intentions isn't always enough.
As a life long mental illness sufferer I can't help but feel some sympathy for this kid. I feel like society is only just now really starting to understand mental illness and learning difficulties and it's still such a long way to go.
So true. Back then, it just wasn't discussed by the masses. I believe they just did not understand, nor did most of the world. We only sorta do now.
@@NotesNNotes his dad didn’t call him hopeless his dad said he is hopeless himself and I don’t blame him
the integrator is just amazing his voice is so gentle and calming when he said "calm down kiddo" it broke my heart
Interrogator
This is the perfect example of the way mental health was treated in the 90’s. My heart breaks for this kid and for everyone who’s life’s were forever changed because of him. Such a tragic case. This channel is quickly becoming a favorite of mine!
Yes! My dad had bi polar (we know this now, but not at the time) and when he'd have his 'episodes' he'd be taken to a mental health center and put in a straight jacket!! No lie! As a family we knew better then to share these things, although ppl knew. We became 'that family'.. So very sad. My dad eventually committed suicide cause he just couldn't do life anymore. I wish there would've been more knowledge for him thru his struggles. Heartbreaking.
Agree 100% and same
It was the 90s not the middle ages.
🙄
His parents knew about his mental illness and CHOSE to stop treatment.
Dont forget all the bullying... That can and probably eff up your brain... even more your teen brain, that is still in development.
my little brother is going to be in prison for 15 years because he committed a bad crime while on drugs and hearing this kid's interrogation and his crying, he sounds so much like my own little brother and it hurts my heart. he just needed help and all of it could have been avoided.
i’m sorry to hear that whole grain, that’s a funny dog with glasses on though.
I am sorry to hear about your little bro’ Kids do dumb things, (we all did!) their brains aren’t developed and they don’t fully understand the ramifications of their actions in the long term. As well as How said actions affect others long term. Maybe they know that action A = consequence B. However if they are not raised with emotional intelligence, understanding WHY B is a consequence of action A and how it hurts others, they will not think twice. If they understand how their actions truly hurt, inconvenience and burden others short and long term their petty crimes wouldn’t be putting them in jail for years. Also, I think FIFTEEN years is ridiculous!!!!!
My heart goes out to you and your brother, I hope he’s not suffering too badly or being subjected to abuse from staff and other inmates. Fifteen years is a long time in a young life. Sending you both strength and love.
hearing kip's journal entries tears my heart apart. he wanted the help. i hear my teenage self in those words, he honestly even shares my tone from that age. my depression and self-loathing was also largely fueled by constantly disappointing my parents and i just feel like this sort of spiral is inevitable when you parent this way. my parents also didn't believe in therapy... he needed so much help as a kid and they just... failed him. it's hard
It’s insane to think about how different things could have ended up for some of us if we didn’t get the same support and weren’t shown the kindness we were.
Same.
DEPRESSION OR ANY MENTAL DISORDER IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO KILL PEOPLE , period.
@@nightwishlady it’s not an excuse but you don’t murder someone bc you’re happy ma’am
@@bre.172 Do I need to remind you of Teddy Bunter who had MONEY, SUCCESS and was considered hot with loads of women wanting him and STILL MURDERED PEOPLE
i live in eugene, oregon and i revisit this video every few months. too many true crime channels treat these cases as just some more tea but you discuss them with respect and empathy for the victims, and in this case, the perpetrator. i’m drawn to this video in particular because while you show empathy to Kip and his family, you don’t make light of the situation or justify his actions. i always leave these videos feeling more informed and grateful that there are true crime channels like yours
I almost cried hearing him in the interview crying that he didn't want to do it he loved his dad but he had no choice, as another paranoid schizophrenic that makes complete sense to me, we're similar even down to not learning how to spell my own name until grade school, it's so wrong his parents didn't really accept that he needed help with something he legit couldn't control suffering from. The voices can be unrelenting, convincing, can be absolutely brutal, and really, sometimes just opening up honestly about the experience is relieving, but his therapy was dropped like a hat :(
I'm so glad you are doing well and I hope you have a strong support network. Lost in the dark is a very lonely place to be. I'm 45 and have been battling my demons for most of my life but my first official diagnosis was at 16. Some days are bad, some are good but mostly I just feel like I'm waiting to die. Peace be with you and I wish you much love and strength on your journey.
@@rabid_vixen I really appreciate that and I think I'm ok for now, yes I relate to that a lot, sometimes things are okay other times things are bad but mostly I'm thinking of the end and I'm battling myselfs the moment I wake up, peace to you as well, we all deserve support 💜 my family have come a very long way in supporting me, I hope things keep getting better, for everyone suffering these things like us 🙏
Thank you for sharing. I'm glad mental illness is becoming more accepted. I was paralyzed by the fear of accepting that something might be wrong and seeking help until I was out of college and my sister finally convinced me to talk to my doctor. My illness is not schizophrenia, but it is debilitating and I didn't realize that it could be so much improved with treatment. I feel for Kip, but also for his parents who sound like they did the best they could in light of their own human flaws that we only realize in hindsight. Knowing what's "right" in a society that constantly pushes misinformation as the norm is a difficult task for anyone, let alone those thouroughly unprepared by their own upbringing or circumstances.
@Lame Tube I really hope your family the best, myself it's been a very rocky process a long time now so thank you
@@mjjf26 I'm so happy you let your sister help you in that decision, it's really tough for sure and now I don't think I'd be so far if not for my own siblings' reassurances, but yeah, definitely I agree education on these illnesses that anyone could develop need far more support, need to be talked about and in how to respond to such things, because many times my family responded in ways that weren't helping me through my delusions at all lol, and as well dispelling that these illnesses are always aligned with violence, when that's just one resort to a very rare scenario for a rare illness, that really should have treatment more easily acknowledged and accessed, like it's taken me years to learn how to care for myself and I'm still relearning even though I've been diagnosed for so long, if in general my family had more accurate knowledge and how to support I think would've remove mountains of stresses
this is so heartbreaking… the fact that he shot his parents not out of anger, but because he felt like he was such a negative part of his parents lives that them being dead, in his mind, would be more merciful than forcing them to live with him disappointing and embarrassing them over and over….. wow… it is so extremely important to listen to people, and for parents to really think about their children’s mental health, and how impactful words can be, because you have NO IDEA how much pain and trauma you could unintentionally be causing someone
Far to many parents end up harming their children, they aren’t stable enough to deal with their own issues so they take it out on their children.
you have been successfully manipulated bya murderer. congrats
the worst part is that he genuinely sounded like a good boy who tried really hard to be accepted. he was by nature communicative and hardworking. that's evident by how fast he improved with therapy and prozac. he had to cold turkey his way through those weeks and it must have been torture.
This case hits different than all the other ones. In other interviews with the murderer you can tell they’re trying to manipulate and lie to not deal with the consequences of their actions. With Kip you can tell he’s not like this.
It’s really sad all around. The victims deserved better but so did Kip. 😢
Edit: when I say Kip deserved better is I mean getting help with his mental issues, not that he deserved to go free.
Honestly never hear of him till I had heard this which I've relistened to his story breaks my heart on both side
Baffles me how these parents just buy guns for their kids despite being concerned about their behavior…
Americans
@@pumpthebrakes ☝️ yup
Right. Because America is the only country with guns. If not for my gun, my little sister and I would have been mauled by three dogs. To say I shouldn't have had it would be to wish death on a teenager and a six year old. Guns are a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.
When you reward your child with weapons of mass destruction😀
They bought him those when he improved for a short while
The interrogation sequence is so painful to listen to. You can just feel the anguish, pain, confusion for what has happened. It’s just so brutal to listen to, I had to stop there.
Agreed! I’m a mom of teens and it’s literally breaking my heart to hear him sob like that. He just sounds like such a broken little kid.
I'm at this point myself. I'm trying to listen but it's so hard I might have to turn it off for my own mental health. Such a tragic story all around.
Same. It's just so sad. Never heard a killer cry like that before. I feel for him.
The way he describes his feelings is a crazy look into what was really going on inside his head, and it’s really sad and disturbing
@@ladyreverie7027 listen to the interrogation of Nathaniel Shimmel thru to the end. This interrogation is just harrowing & heartbreaking to listen to. But important.
Psalms 51:17 "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."
I don’t know anyone who would want to be a teenager again
I do adulting is hard
@@TheJcjonesacpNo disagreement that life is hard, but so was being lorded over by my strict, Catholic parents in suburban Houston. Being an independent adult living in New York City is better on its worst day than my teenage years were on its best day. I’d rather jump off the Williamsburg Bridge than go back to that bullshit. 🗽
@@jewz456 That is fine, I agree that for some their younger years weren't that great. Also, NYC is best!
deadass, my teen years were the absolute worst
Can I just be the same size I was as a teen?
just realized that it is 25 years later like kip's sister said in her letter. i feel like things have changed so much like she predicted but it's astounding how behind we STILL are regarding mental health.
I am dyslexic, like Kip. In school, I was often misdiagnosed with adhd because I found reading and writing so stressful, I would focus on other things in the classroom. I got in trouble almost everyday for coping with my frustration, but my mother refused any and all medications that were suggested for this.
Parents: LISTEN to your children, they know more than you do when it comes to their own experience. You can easily prevent these kinds of tragedies- EASILY.
Facts 🙏🏽
Listening to him has brought me to tears.. With the first "my head doesn't work right" I understood, I felt that. This boy, a child, unwell and uncared for in the way he needed to be. It's just so, so sad. For every single person. Every single person is a victim in this story, in varying degrees. There's no justice no matter what happens. Everyone loses here. 😓
Selfish to kill people those
as an autistic person with PTSD and possibly ADHD/ADD, that part really hit home. it's always been so hard for me to make friends and meet people due to my neurodivergence, and listening to his inner thoughts and pleadings for help was just so sad. this could have been prevented
You are right. So sad ending
@@Adam-zd2bk not in this case.
@@Adam-zd2bk It is not necessarily about him being selfish here. He didn't do this for selfish reasons, and he regrets it so heavily, even today.
25-year anniversary today. I remember the day it happened. I live in Eugene, Oregon. This is the first time I have been exposed to such a detailed report on Kip. Thank you for covering his case. RIP to the lost souls and those injured by untreated mental illness.
nothing can excuse what he did, but this story, told in full…really illustrates just how let down he was by those meant to help him. thank you for telling this story with such detail and emphasis on things often not highlighted.
My friend did an in prison college class and Kip was one of her fellow classmates. She said he is one of the nicest people she’s ever met and it radically changed her perspective on crime and punishment.
As someone who works with youth involved in the juvenile Justice system, they are often the sweetest, more empathetic, and intelligent teenagers. They just belong to the 20%+ of the teen populations that our system isn’t built for, they’re left behind. So glad he is doing well! Thank you for spreading good information about reform. :)
@@jillmarie3841 he’s in his 30s now i believe
@@prisoners23 he’s 40, 41 in August.
@ProudMama i agree
Excellent job researching and reporting this case. I wasn’t familiar with it. I feel so much sympathy for Kip that his parents didn’t keep up his mental health treatment early on when he was showing progress. What’s sad, is still, even all these years later, we haven’t come much farther from the stigma that plagues those who suffer from various forms of mental health issues. I’m happy to see the progress he’s made in prison.
Exactly. People continue to stigmatize psychiatrists, psychotherapy and psychopharmacology will create more and more of this. Poor kid.
I really have to wonder about their motives for stopping treatment . Did him doing well upset their label of him as 'the problem' ? Or did they consider him 'cured'? You wouldn't just stop treating an ongoing physical illness , would you ?
I think mental health has come a very long way since the 90's!!! It's talked about everywhere, tons of commercials on it, more and more counseling centers popping up, etc. Humans and their make ups are a work in progress. But we have made huge strides in mental health.
@@sarahholland2600 this is a very interesting story. A family might develop a codependency on a mentally I’ll child.
The fact that the public dismissed experts saying Kip had major mental issues as him playing "the sick rich kid" even though he never pleaded the insanity defense is very telling. And that victim should never have been allowed to say he wasn't sick. She was a traumatized teen, not a psychiatrist. She shouldn't be arguing about the validity of diagnoses. Just tragic all around.
Kip's parents thought they were so intelligent themselves, but didn't research their sons treatments??? They disreguarded professionals & their son. Pride goes before a fall. Who paid the price? Countless!!! This breaks my heart & pray for all involved.
when I first heard he couldn’tread the first thing I thought was dyslexia which I know was well known back then because I was born in 82 so how was that not their first thought? So many things were overlooked like taking him off antidepressants and away from therapy.
Given that the world wide web was still new and not widely used by the masses in the 90's. Any research on things were limited.
@@jessicabecause3717that might be true, but I don't know how smart you have to be to recognize that therapy and medicine are helping and just go "he's cured"
If you havnt lived without internet i can see thats how you would look at it. But it was like, you wondered something like 'how big is Italy?' and you asked your mother or your friends. If they didnt know, you would MAYBE go see if your parents had any kind of dictionarys or world atlas (that would most certainly be several years old and have out of date fact), or more likely you would just go "oh well" and NOT KNOW THE ANSWER. And that is what it was with everything, you simply couldnt find out literally anything that popped into your head! You had very limited chance to just "research" stuff on a whim. Even if you would go to a library, how would you know where to start? You cant just magically find and open the correct book covering this exact symptoms and issues when you havnt even heard about it before. It might sound exaggerated to you but it genuinly was a different world.
@@jessicabecause3717There's long been access to reliable information; you just had to go to the library or speak with a professional. And people have long been warned not to make absurd conclusions like "Kip is cured of his mental illness" based on wildly insufficient evidence.
My gosh that interrogation is heartbreaking. How his lawyers didn’t go for insanity is beyond me. You can hear how distracted he is by the voices in his head. The poor kid can hardly speak.
Going for an insanity defense would have deeply hurt his mental health.
He was clearly schizophrenic to a degree and it went undiagnosed.
He did terrible things, but he is also a victim to a degree.
Disagree. Aside from some hallucinations and paranoid thoughts, there aren't other symptoms of schizophrenia described or alluded to in this video. That's only one of the core symptoms required for a diagnosis. He's missing one of the other two, gross disorganisation and/or flattened affect. His ability to stay on a topic for a long time without any hint of loose association shows he's not grossly disorganised, and his interrogation shows his affect is not flat.
The case fits better into a severe depression with psychotic symptoms model.
Agree
Usually schizophrenia manifests in the early 20’s. “Hearing voices” does not automatically mean schizophrenia. That is a misconception.
@@peccantis Hallucinations and paranoid thoughts aren't symptoms of depression. He was definitely going through some sort of psychosis. You don't hear voices when depressed.
@@peccantis He also had delusions. Believing that his parents would have preferred death than the humiliation of having a bad kid is a delusion and his horrific actions, towards his parents at least, were logical as they stemmed from this belief. That is not psychotic or a break from reality. He overheard his father talk about how ashamed he was of his son and called Kip hopeless to his face, so he was working from events that happened in reality.
It’s hard not to have empathy for the kid IMO. What he did was horrid, but coming off of the medication cold turkey has deadly consequences. The people around this kid failed him
Affine to this; I personally feel the mitigating circumstances should have kept him from life in prison. I think with medication and therapy he could have lived in a mental facility and eventually graduated to living out and with a parole officer. Idk I just feel like this kid was fucked from every angle.
Absolutely. I think they were not bad parents. But why they take him off medication is beyond my knowledge. They didn’t took his mental problems serious enough. If they did, maybe many people wouldn’t have suffered and this kid could have lived a normal life. Not everybody needs to be genious. Even with learning disabilities there are so many ways your life can evolve in a normal and happy manner.
@@TheApp9 i think the parents were leftist freaks. His parents prob didnt divulge the abuse they inflicted on him and he was prob too ashamed to talk. This is a case about the unfair treatment of our boys and men. He thrived in math and science but was shamed because he wasnt good at bullshit like writing and reading. Reading is useful, writing meh.. but nothing gets accomplished irl without math and science. They shouldnt have put him on prozac to start. They failed him....
They failed him multiple times. The irony in this horrible story is that his feelings of disappointed drove him to these terrible acts. The disappointment really should fall on his parents who missed multiple opportunities to be parents to their son instead of allowing perceptions to drive their decisions.
God, I remember coming off Prozac when I was 15 and I was worse than before I was on it. I'm glad that study last year has finally formally addressed that it's not an effective SSRI for children and adolescents. Especially when you have citalopram or zoloft as options
The interrogation audio is so sad. This isn't a heartless monster. This is a child with a severe mental illness that should have been taken more seriously. This kind of thing is why people need to talk about mental health more. Yeah, it can get uncomfortable, but it's so much better to let kids know they can rely on you (their parents, teacher, whatever) to help them if they need it. Hell, it's just as important for adults to have that kind of support. Mental health issues are not some moral failing - it's just part of being alive. People are incredibly complex creatures, and to assume that every person you meet is 100% ok inside is flawed.
I have server mental issues yet I’m not thinking about killing ppl or harming others because of what I face. It’s just heartless and inconsiderate
@@ollieskater9397 What an atrocious counter argument lmao.
Kip definitely doesn't deserve praise and coddling for what he did, but the situation absolutely deserves some amount of empathy and basic understanding. Just because you have a better handle on your mental health issues doesn't mean everyone else that has severe mental issues should be able to handle things the same way.
This kid wasn't some spoiled, self important, incel trashbag, he was failed at almost every turn for 15 years by people that were supposed to help guide him through life and he felt lost, hopeless and that he was a failure to the people he loved the most. Expecting a kid at that age, with that background, with those mental health issues to have any amount consideration for anything when his head is literally full of voices telling him he was a piece of shit and to kill people says a lot about people that think this kid is some kind of monster.
@@ollieskater9397 Unless you have schizophrenia, which involves hallucinations and delusions like voices in your head telling you to kill people, you cannot compare your mental illness to Kip’s. Literally the reason why he had thoughts of killing and harming others was because of his schizophrenia-not because it was part of his personality. Please do some research before vilifying a whole community that struggles with this illness. This is exactly why Kip kept the voices in his head to himself-because of comments like yours that make it so anyone having those thoughts because of schizophrenia are “evil.”
@@ollieskater9397 not everyone is like you. The sooner you realize that, the less of an asshole you'll be 🤷
@@CGDubz87 He had an unfortunate life especially given his circumstances, yes, but he is a monster for what he has done. His legit mental illness doesn't rescind the severity of his actions, which after killing his parents, two students, and injuring many more kids, he IS a complete pos monster, albeit a tragic one.
Rewatching this after a year. I massively respect the considerations you took regarding kip's mental health. The fact we got the story from all sides: Victims, family of Kip, all 3, just so very complete in your investigation. I'll be back one day for a 3rd watch, I'm sure of it
Dear god, I’ve always known his name as an “other”, a creep, but now as an adult and my first time actually hearing this fuller story and I’m weeping for him. The lives lost, but also his prolonged torture and helplessness. What a tragedy all around. I blame the father. The cool, distant, judgey father who kept Kip an estranged stranger in his own family. How hard it is to connect with someone -- especially when they’re hurt?? :( this boy just needed understanding, and that’s free.
I have two grown sons. If they did something wrong, I would show low level anger. I might’ve shouted at them whilst telling them why I’m angry. I never once told them that they were disappointments. They always knew that once I’d told them off, it was done. I never dwelled on the thing they had done. I’d had my say, they got their punishment, we moved on. I also never believed in both parents dishing out discipline at the same time. If my husband was telling them off, I remained silent. They could then come to me, or my husband, and talk about their feelings. There is no back of book answers for parenting. We do the best we can. Unfortunately, Kips parents using disappointment was destructive. Hitting doesn’t work, making them feel less than, doesn’t work. Upfront, honest, “you know what you did….here’s your punishment” seemed fair to me. Kids make mistakes.
I think you're right. They found it easy to raise a gifted daughter but couldn't relate to an equally gifted but vulnerable son and I think father in particular worried a bit too much about what the neighbours would think and rather less about his son's mental health and self esteem. Also, it seems a bit sinister to me that when he did sort of bond with his son, the relationship seems to have been mediated by guns.
@@pommiebears Unfortunately kids don't come with an instruction manual but it sounds to me like you all got it right.
This is commonly the case with other crimes similar to this. Hatred is learned
@@wywardmoose I think it’s more animal, undeveloped. Racist hatred is learned but visceral disgust is a survival mechanism.
It’s simple to hate, harder (and takes training) to look past your animal nature and find humanity in someone who’s broken the social contract so thoroughly.
“Us and them” is simple tribal animal nature … this kid isn’t a freak though, he’s an “us” who was neglected til he pickled into a school shooter.
His parents present like “us” but are actually the twisted ones. They were so invested in the Truman Show they forgot Truman was a real boy. _That_ is what’s twisted, and how this poor soul grew up so contorted.
Everything about this case is just devastating. What an infuriating tragedy all the way around!
I don’t know why but when the detective asked if he’d been up all night and asked if he watched tv, at 57:07 when Kip says “I turned it on to keep me company [but didn’t watch it]” it just broke my heart. In his own home, parents dead in other rooms, wanting to die so bad. And he turned on the tv to keep himself company. I don’t know why, I don’t understand it, but that just made my eyes fill with tears.
I’ve listened to SO many of these RUclips’s, and this is the first one that has really broken my heart and I couldn’t really finish it. Kip might be the first person I believe feels bad for what they did. I am heartbroken that no one could help him, and just kept doing things to make his situation worse.
Faith Kinkel was my French teacher at Briggs Middle School. Whenever I saw her around town she would stop and say hi and let me practice my French with her. I was the only Mexican child in the school (it was 1988 or 1989 in Oregon). Mrs. Kinkel was one of the only teachers that made me feel welcome at the school.
Was your family in the military?
How do 2 educated parents not recognize Dyslexia? I grew up in dirt poor southern Louisiana a few years before Kip and knew plenty of kids who were diagnosed with it. This seems insane to me.
Remember you don’t know what you don’t know. I’m sure they thought they tried their best, the only upside we we all learn from this.
I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff you don’t know, that others think you should.
It seems his parents were continuously trying to get him help for his learn disability. Whilst they might not have known it was dyslexia they knew something was wrong.
my thought too. It was the first thing that crossed my mind. Intelligent child, but struggling with dyslexia. And letting him feel like a failure. Horrible. Childabuse to be honest
@@monicacarolina6480 and quit the meds and therapy cold-turkey. smh.
As a HUGE NINE INCH NAILS fan, I can tell you more than half of what you’re reading from his journal, are indeed NIN lyrics.
thanks 4 the comment and info!
Yeah, like when he says 'goddamn this voices inside my head' kinda sounds like the lyrics from "The becoming"
Kip Reznor
NIN has a way to stick in our heads for life, if you have a certain kind of predisposition, I suppose; few musicians can put misery so well in arrangement, not in words. And the end result feels so "right" the words they keep coming anyway. The sentence "I just want something I can never have" lives rent-free in my brains since 1995, "shines in a world full of ugliness" since 2003.
Can confirm. I hate to admit this... but I actually burst out laughing when the narrator mentioned that 'Kip was on a downward spiral'. It's a line too perfect not to be intentional. For those not into NIN, "The Downward Spiral" was NIN's smash hit 90s album most of the ripped off journal lines are from.
Having your father disappointed in you hurts more than a thousand daggers through your heart and soul....
Yeah ):
reminds me of jennifer pan..she was a child of tiger parenting....so she killed them cuz to bring shame and disappointment to them was far worse than ending their lives
Mad respect for the law enforcement officer interviewing this poor boy. If only his parents had been half as supportive and attentive to him, this entire tragedy could have been avoided. My parents were totally clueless about a lot of "issues" but at least they knew when to throw money at the problem and bring in professionals. Poor kid, I hope he's getting help.
Which is why we need to nationalize our healthcare system so it didn't matter how much or how little you have, you can simply seek the help you need. It's not a perfect system, but it sure beats what we have now. How much money you make should NEVER keep someone from accessing care. It shouldn't just be the ones with cash that get the treatment and everyone else suffers and dies. This is the richest country ON THE PLANET. There is no excuse that "we can't afford it". Maybe if we stopped giving welfare to Jeff Benzos and the trillion dollar companies, and gave it instead to those who need it we wouldn't be living in this hellscape.
I watch so much true crime I thought I was going numb to it but I was wrong. This hurt, my stomach turned, he was in so much pain. I know he's the murderer but I just can't help but feel sorry for him. Listening to him you can't help but hear the scared child he is.
Same here. I have been on such a long true-crime kick that I thought that I had began to become numb to horrific details and events. But a few other things in the past year, and this one specifically had me feeling gutted inside. I need to find happy things to watch today. Or maybe just some random SCP stuff to take me entirely out of the realm of reality for my two days off here.
I usually roll my eyes when someone tries to claim they're mentally ill in court. This really is a case where he should be treated as mentally ill by our justice system. And for a literal kid to tell someone "no, I owe it to them to listen" speaks volumes about what sort of person he is in his rational mind.
It's actually very bizarre how children are seen as evil and fully responsible for all their actions, once they do something awful. As a person who works with youth offenders, they're kids. It has been proven time and time again, that the younger you are from age 25, the less developed and emotionally unstable you are.
Agree.
Yup. This type of thing would be more preventable if parents/doctors/therapist put more emphasis on mental health.
You can not be fully developed and still know right from wrong. He knew what he was doing was awful evil and wrong and decided to do it anyways. I don’t care how much pain he was in. I’ve been there myself and would never have hurt innocent people like this. He had it in his heart to do it. No excuses.
@stupid Cat “what he did was not good, BUT”… don’t make excuses for him or downplay what he did. It’s disrespectful to the victims. He knew it was wrong. Being frustrated with his parents I get it(but no excuse to shoot them); however taking a gun to school was wrong ( he even knew this) and shooting two innocent children is inexcusable. There millions of mentally I’ll children in the U.S the vast majority do not shoot up schools. Yes it’s his parents fault as well, they should have kept him in therapy and on meds. However the “you don’t know what he went through” is BS and an excuse. He knew right from wrong, he and his parents are to blame.
@stupid Cat blame everyone except the person who did it.
That detective was so respectful. I would fully understand if he was angry, and trying to intimidate this kid, but he truly tried to understand the reason behind such awful and heinous actions. That was really human of him, and i think this was one of the few times where kip got some kind of understanding in his life, and its really sad that it took him committing such absurd actions. My heart goes out to all the victims families.
I know what he did was so wrong and unforgivable but, he sounds incredibly remorseful. I can’t help but empathize for him.
Me too.....his self loathing is so 😔
I have no empathy for him
@@Deenique16 right . gurl this comment section really got me confused. more sad for the shooter than the people he murdered and emotionally scared in cold blood
@@sidology1.0 it’s because this shooting could have been prevented the boy was I’ll he needed help medicine and therapy when he got those things he improved greatly and their loss directly caused this .
@@sidology1.0 Feeling empathy or feeling sadness for this kid doesn't mean that people feel MORE sad than they do for the murdered and other victims.
For me, this is one of those rare cases where I feel like everyone was a victim on some level. Does that mean that I think this kid was justified in his actions, or that I think he was the biggest victim out of them all? No. He obviously had some level of awareness that what he was doing was wrong, which we can see based off of how emotional he was during the interrogation.
But it also seems like there were multiple levels in this kid's life where things failed on him, and that had things been a little different he wouldn't have done what he did.
If his parents hadn't decided to take him off of his medication without consulting doctors.
If the essays he turned in at school expressing serious depression and suicidal tendencies had been noticed by his teachers and followed up on properly.
If he hadn't had such easy access to guns.
If he had been seeing a therapist or psychiatrist who may have noticed his schizophrenic-like symptoms, and made sure that he was being properly treated for that.
My mom is a psychologist. She has told me several times that dyslexia is underdiagnosed. Parents tend to think their children are unintelligent or lazy, when all they need is special attention to improve their writing and coordination skills. It seems that not just parents but also teachers need to learn how to spot problems of the sort.
Albert Einstein was dyslexic.💓🧠💓
I was diagnosed with adhd as a kid but even then they did formally diagnose my dyslexia for some unknown reason. There's a lot of pain that comes with having learning disabilities. And just because plenty of people have them doesn't change the trauma of them
@@valerierodger7700 That's sad. When you're constantly told you're dumb, you believe it.
I have a friend with dyslexia. She taught herself was to read. She told me that it can be hereditary. All of her kids have dyslexia. She helped them with their reading. Their kids also have dyslexia.
Dyslexia is really hard to deal with I grew up with Dyslexia I knew I'm not dumb but years of teachers and students bullying and humiliating me for my Dyslexia really took his toll on my self esteem I also had undiagnosed adhd this whole time it's a real struggle to be different as a child . And I was so different and misunderstood . Adhd also makes you feel everything so strongly and I have a slightly above average iq the combination of al these things made my life so contradictory and hard to figure out also the tools available for you don't help you . Because your brain just doesn't work normal . Adding schizophrenia to this must be absolute torture to live . Off course I feel really bad for al the students and families that got hurt and traumatized and have to deal z
With this burden and trauma for the rest of there life too. They had nothing to do with this and are victims of a horrible crime
It's so crazy to me that his parents just pulled him off Prozac cold turkey. I understand it was a new drug and people didn't know much about it but did they even consider the concept that the body becomes accustomed to certain drugs and withdrawal will happen (to some degree) with almost all of them!
Also did the doctor not mention that once he started, he wouldn't be able to stop without a weaning process? Surely the doctor would have known that an unpleasant withdrawal was likely. Possibly he wasn't aware how truly awful and proteacted that process would be.
However, I refuse to believe that a medical professional would not predict that a sudden and immediate ending of a previously daily ingestion of a drug that works by changing hormone levels within the brain (on a patient who was already struggling a lottttttt mentally) even if it was a very new drug and therefore untested.
You'd be surprised. I've seen psych clinicians pull people off all kinds of stuff cold turkey. My partner was pulled of antipsychotics cold turkey as a teen and went through over a year of seizures and w/d. I've also been instructed to discontinue SSRIs cold turkey but knew better than to do that. I observed a pharmacist telling a little old lady to just quit her opioids the other day (even though her PRESCRIBING PHYSICIAN wanted her to take them; the pharmacist just "didn't believe in" opioids). There is zero education, responsibility, or accountability in this industry.
Doctors switch up meds all the time without weaning. It’s usually not even necessary but when it is, it really is. I think it depends on the person and other drugs they’re taking. I wean myself no matter what.
I stopped taking my Lexapro once cold turkey and experienced psychological symptoms I never had prior to starting the meds. The worst withdrawal ever. These parents are awful for that. Thankfully my situation just led to paranoia and vomiting but for others, it is so so so much worse.
John Wesbecker check him out as his case pertains to Prozac, not the same situation but closely related.
@@SpecialBlanket 🎯
I feel no anger at anyone involved. Just heartbroken. Parents made mistakes sure but they really tried and I think cared about their son. He's obviously ill and in agony. Finally the innocent victims life taken unfairly.
Probably the first true crime episode I've seen where I am heartbroken for everyone involved, including the perpetrator. Devastating
This case is enraging. I know the parents didn’t know any better…. but their aloof attitude toward mental health is….. infuriating.
Why do... people today... type sentences... the way that... Jack Nicholson Joker's boss speaks.
Probably conservatives tbh
@Jedi Patriot that’s not any sort of guarantee that they would know better. This was the 80s and 90s, and even 30-40 years later, our society is STILL struggling to figure out mental/emotional health and learning disabilities. Idk how old you are, but personally, having grown up in the nineties in small town America, I can see the vast difference in mental health awareness in this environment.
@@jvappi i agree but also not at the same time. my parents are immigrants from mexico who have even less awareness of mental health, and barely even finished highschool, but still tried their best to help me and my sister when they noticed that somethings were wrong, it was mostly my mother though. but on the other hand i understand mental health being a newer thing than it is now back then in this case.
@@clownmonomaniac2630 I hear you. In your personal circumstances you were lucky to have parents who could tell that something was off. I think things are trending up, but back then this sort of recognition and drive to fix things was outside of the norm (which doesn’t inherently mean the parents who didn’t notice were bad parents, just lacked knowledge and awareness). It’s easy to judge people in the past from a “today” perspective, but it isn’t flippant or dismissive to say simply that times were different and things have changed. Society and commonalities in parenting have changed.
I went cold turkey of meds once. I felt myself becoming evil, as if I could say anything to anyone and I didn't care. In short, I lost my restraint, my inhibitions, the ability to have a negative emotion and not act on it. When I spoke to a doctor a day later he told me to get back on them immediately, which I did. I gained back my control. I then weaned of them slowly and was fine.
Why the hell would you just come off meds cold turkey?!?!?!?
@@Bubba__Sawyer Good question. I just wanted to get off them and wasn't aware of the risks. I was stupid.
@@Bubba__Sawyer When my Dr. was going to prescribe "Oxycodone" to me after a surgery, I opted for "Tylenol 1" (w/codeine) instead because I've heard horror stories about "Oxy" but when I stopped taking the Tylenol cold turkey, the withdrawals were just horrible and I didn't attribute it to the "Tylenol" because I hadn't a clue just how addictive codeine was!
Well, it is and it can be dreadful so yeah, it's never a good idea to go off any type of meds w/o talking to your Dr. first. I can sympathize w/the OP. 💊👀😊
@@isabellind1292 opiate withdrawal is a walk in the park compared to SSRI withdrawal. I've been through both. While opiate wd is physically much more painful, wd of SSRI makes you lose your mind, the whole world is spinning and collapsing down on you and everything feels eternally hopeless and futile. Everything hurts, the sun doesn't shine, it burns your eyes. The world becomes a dark gray place and nothing in it is of any worth.
@@DerLiesl How scary. (My sister was on "Cymbalta", an SSRI & she too experienced dreadful w/ds).
It's awful to think what you had to go through. I imagine it took months until you rid all the chemicals from your body. I'm glad you got off it. I wish you well.
His interview is just heartbreaking. He sounds so young. It's just the deepest tragedy. You can feel his pain and hopelessness. I feel the interviewer did a good job. Just unending pain and sadness for this young man. My heart hurts for him.
Only if you could show the same sympathy for the victims who lost their lives for no reason that you're showing the person who murdered them. You're almost as sick as him
there is always those who are so overdramatic. showing some form of sympathy for his mental struggles doesnt mean that OP doesnt have (even more) sympathy for the victims and those affected by Kip’s actions.. Jeez
Nothing like sympathizing with a mass murder. You're prolly a liberal.
@@saselene if they do care why not say it. Apologist
@DJ ??? Dude, if you yourself can’t find it in you to feel sorry for at least what this boy went through, then there’s something wrong with you. No one said they DONT feel sympathy for the victims. However this video is focused on him and what led him to do what he did. Do I think what he did was okay? No. But do I feel sorry for what he went through as a child? Yes