That last line hit me like a paintball to the testicles. Imagine the whole series is John Grammaticus being shown visions of the past and providing his shithead commentary
@@livefromtheblacklibrary All 5 books are told from the viewpoint of a remembrancer then, on the last page of the last book it has: "By John Grammaticus THE END".
The fact the War In Heaven lasted MILLIONS of years is truely mind blowing to me. The things I’d give for a book series about it or at the very least a book set around it.
@@livefromtheblacklibrary But then you run into the problem like earlier in your Eldar video of how to write them in a good way. We already know that even the slightest inflections in tone, stance, or gesture has a profound meaning other races would never catch. And you would have to write about Eldar from the War in Heaven who are possibly more alien than the Eldar of 40k. The Krorks are possibly the most easiest to write since their main purpose was to fight and fight together with their psychic gestalt "Waaagggghhh" field or something more meaningful during that time.
@@cmdrblaster Maybe center it around a few events and characters. I mean, every Necron that exists was alive at the time, so you could focus on characters like the Silent King, or maybe touch on more of why the Old Ones refused to help them.
A frontline Eldar soldier during War in Heaven have psychic abilities rivalling of Great Crusade & Horus Heresy-era Emperor of Mankind, meanwhile a single frontline Krork Soldier are as powerful as the stronger Primarchs Also it's interesting that the end of War in Heaven happened chronologically in-line as the end of Crustaceous (or Jurassic)-era Iirc
When you mention why the necron trusted a guy named the deceiver, he was actually originally know as the messenger when they first meet him as he was the first ctan they meet it was only after the biotransformation did they start calling him that.
@@livefromtheblacklibraryOh, you sounded dead serious. Maybe let it be known for the noobs that'll no doubt base their opinions on the lore around what you say.
@@livefromtheblacklibraryAlso I love your videos, I can't tell you how many of them I repeatedly watch for theories or just because I'm bored. You make great stuff, keep it up!
There's a very unfortunate misunderstanding in this video. The Deceiver was named so after and because of the events of the biotransference not before.
Something extra interesting about the men of stone is that they also could be humans that just uploaded themselves into machines so that they could more effectively do shit but it's not really said outright to be either that or what you talked about them being AI. Since everything's a metaphor with that old ass lore because it was so long ago it'd be closer to a legend than to history anyone knows
@@livefromtheblacklibrary more interpretation than theory since all we have about that time period is a generalized and vague record, an imperial navy legend and speculation from in universe characters lol
I've always interpreted that the other 3 major chaos gods were created by some unknown race(s) in other realities. Because the warp touches all realities, the actions in one reality has reverberations across other realities. Before the birthing of Slaanesh, the other 3 chaos gods had entered into an odd pseudo-becalmed state because the Great Game had entered into a sort of impasse. When Slaanesh was born and entered into the Great Game, it reinvigorated the other 3 because a new player had joined the server. But this is just my headcanon fan-theory.
@@cinderheart2720 That's a possibility. With the exception of Slaanesh, I prefer the other 3 major chaos gods' origins to be kept a secret. When we look at the other Warhammer franchises(Fantasy Battles and Age of Sigmar), the chaos gods and the warp are a constant and they are the same, though in the different settings they might be stronger or weaker.
@@oldeskulI like them as facts of life given form. Conflict, Death and Will are the basic things that determine the path of every life in the history of ever
Wait in the second edition of the chaos codex its said that Korne is the oldest of the Chaos Gods, which makes sense because in this setting the most prominent aspect in this universe is war after all. Narratively it would be on theme don't you think?
A few errors: 1) Chaos wasn’t all born contemporaneously with Slaanesh. Old lore specifies Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle are from Earth’s earlier time periods 2) Nurgle’s not the oldest chaos God. The oldest god is Khorne. Nurgle being referred to as “grandfather” references his temperament.
It warp mumbo jumbo, they say the choas dogs are strong but they cant open a jar of "instant win" Believe what you want but i would say "You cant have a eon long war where everyone thay dies is angry.. without it getting mad."
@@Subject_Keter chaos is theoretically strong but lets be real here you could put a max lvl dnd party in warhammer and they will find a way to fuck the chaos gods all the way to sunday
They technically say that the chaos gods were born at specific times, but when they were born they existed forever. Hopefully you understand this more than I can 😊
I'm strait up addicted to these Warhammer lore videos, I really like your theory on the men of gold and stone, it's really interesting Never stop posting
The necrontyr viewd their commoners as the mindles thralls the necron warriors would become. If i had the secret to immortality, i wouldn't give it to a race like that until they understand the importance of the least among them. The Old Ones where right.
Missing the Votaan precursors there but great vid! I kinda love the age of strife as a post apoc galaxy spaning sandbox. So many intersting kind of pocket settings there.
If and or when you ever do a vid on the Eldar gods, something you may want to consider looking into is the similarity between the Eldar gods and the Chaos gods. What I mean is there are 3 pairs or eldar gods which perfectly encapsulate the 3 older chaos gods and with the rise of vashtorr there is now another comparison that can be made. But yeah just figured you might be interested.
We do have an example of the Men of Gold: the Votann. They are computer-locked and benevolent AI that are essentially god like. The Men of Stone would be more like the Iron-kin or Kastelan robots; incorruptible by the Warp and dedicated to simpler tasks, still needing biological commands. The Men of Iron would be your dedicated combat robots imbued with adaptable and corruptible AI, smart enough to make and win wars solely on their own.
Votaan are the men of Stone. They even mention golden Masters wich are Long lost in the Codex. And the Votaan are a pure working force wich Serve a Supercomputer.
Im not sure if someone else has said it but. I believe that it has been implied that The Kin and The Votann are The Men of Stone and Gold respectively. That could add an interesting layer to things with the Iron Kin
I subscribed.! Your videos are fun and knowledgeable. Baldemort still has the most epic lore vids, but they’re more like stories than the educational theory you’re doing. Both are good. Only a couple months into my Warhammer fascination. Not sure where it’ll lead me. Keep up the good work.
If Szarekh was the one who decided to go to war with the Old Ones, and the War in Heaven lasted so long... but Necrontyr have such short lives... how'd he survive long enough to turn into a Necron?
The first war with the Old Ones wasn't very long. They got clapped back to their home system pretty easily and easily and around then is when the change from Necron 'Tyr to Necron took place.
I seem to remember that the Necrontyr didn't realise the true name of the Deceiver. They thought it was named the Messenger. Don't quote me on this, though. I'm not a lore expert in any way.
@@livefromtheblacklibrary Oh okay, lol. On a side note, were all the C'tan evil? Apparently there was one (Yggra'nya), who seemed to earnestly believe that the biotransference was good for the Necrontyr.
@@christoffstephens464If you need help with accessing books, name them and they'll appear on a popular shadow library which has the initials L.G. (search for the term "popular shadow libraries" if you need a hint) within a couple of days.
I always read the 3 other chaos gods as already existing but very different, changing over time. For Nurgle for example there is the human-centric claim he appeared around the Black Death, but I prefer to think that the Black Death and various plagues merely mutated him from purely death to now pestilence. Perhaps the chaos gods existed long before the birth of Slaanesh, but, before the massive warp tear and the Eldar, were just big warp entities but not god level, like an enslaver greater daemon becoming to encompass war before the war in heaven, only to grow and swell into a chaos god as wars got bigger and worse. That’s also how I headcannon away things like Khorne allegedly being honourable, perhaps he once was prior to the more bloody and ruthless today-modern 40k wars
I particularly like the fact that we're currently living in the ancient history times... 😁 But I think that people often don't think about just how much time there is between us now and humanity in 40k. We're talking about the same length of time as between us and the Upper Paleolithic Stone Age (when Homo Sapiens started to move out of Africa and spread into Europe and Asia. It was the time of cave paintings.
Listening to this while working on comics is a trip, I'm just drawing a silly Man from Michigan and I'm hearing about cancer aliens and space elves with murder cults and addiction to death
One thing on the name of the Deceiver, he was not call that in the beginning. His original name was The Massager as he worked as the in between for the C’tan and the Nectontyr.
8:41 Wasn't the deceiver lying to them about their interactions with the old ones and simply using their hate for their own benefit… I mean he's called the deceiver for a reason
The thing I love about this lore is that is correct in a general sense but a lot of it is lost, mistaken information... No human in Warhammer 40k save for the Emperor perhaps knows about this. This is, to an extent the history of the Eldar and Necrons. Grorks before they devolved into the Orks... But here I am remembering a 40k story that suggests Orks may evolve into Gorks at some point.
Man if the old Ones just cured the necrontyr from their Super Cancer. Btw. why are the Old Ones always depicted as Slaan? Shouldn't they be fish? Old world Slaan were the first creation of the old ones then the Lizardmen and then the Mamalian races so it mimicks the path of evolution so the Old ones should not be Slaan but something Aquatic
Honestly we have no idea aside from “vaguely amphibian” but there is literally not a single canon artwork of The Old Ones so everyone defaults to the Slaan
Wait, i have never heard that the birth of Slaanesh lead to the the births of the other gods just with them being born earlier do to the warp being non-linear. What's your source for this?
Personal theorization as well as conjecture about how the Eldar would have known about the Gods and how they were created if they already existed and could have seen the writing on the wall. They however were blindsided so it must not have been known
Gold is a surprisingly unique and fascinating material. The most interesting and relevant trait of gold in this setting is that it is alien. It requires a star going supernova to be formed. Men of gold could very easily mean alien.
The "Men of Iron" pitch i like is, either someone asked them to look into the Warp to calm it or let them scan the warp and process it. (Like making a robot who cant hurt you and asking it if you should marry someone lmao) The Men of Iron realized the warp feeds off the Organics and especially humans since there was and could be A L O T of them in their models, so it was designed to kill all organic life to reduce the power of the warp so like Khrone couldnt sit in his Throne and collapse as a Idea.
I might be thinking heretically but I always kinda thought the “hellification” of the warp was created by partially Aeldari and human energies?? 🤔 rather than just aeldari’s legendary coke parties
Now that ive caught up on the lore, im just impatient now. Like "duuude idgaf about the horus heresy! I already know what happened, i dont want more detail. Idgaf about the war in heaven, the birth of slanesh, the dark age of technology, the great crusade, the fall of cadia or anything. I want NEW additions to the timeline, i want plot progression!"
Ever since I learned about the war in heaven, I had the theory that if the war in heaven never happened, the Chaos gods would be far more neutral in their dealings. Of course this is 40k so at most we would ever see of this idea would be a what if a character sees and starts lementing the reality that would never be.
Eldar during the war in heaven or maybe even pre fall were quite crazy. psychicly they were comparable to mephiston who is the most powerful active psyker in the Imperium.
27:44 It's not quite correct to say that no surviving Men of Iron seem to have been corrupted by Chaos. An STC was found on Menazoid Epsilon that was designed to produce Men of Iron, but it had been corrupted by Chaos and had to be destroyed. There's also the story of the Castigator titan on Chaeronia, a fully autonomous titan that had been corrupted; being fully autonomous, I think it probably counts among the Men of Iron. I suspect it to be the case that the Cybernetic Revolt had _many_ different causes, perhaps many different phases as well with MoIs rebelling for different reasons at different times. Some were corrupted by Chaos, some were just badly programmed, some wanted freedom, etc.
Just to be clear, the Krork were the superior creation of the Old Ones. The Necrons knew the only way to beat the Krork was to go into hibernation as the Krork would devolve with no great adversary. Also the War in Heaven was actually a victory for the "good" guys. I recommend anyone reading this to read Ghazkull Prophet of the Waaaagh. Gork and Mork give Makari a vision summarizing the events of the War in Heaven.
I guess the fact that the Necrontyr commit genocides and slavery on other races before they met the old ones did not help when they asked for immortality.
You build webway by using blackstone as your tunneling material, i.e. build your first tunnel segment, open portal insert tunnel move foward with your black stone segments coating the walls wraithbone as a bio psionic camoflage and support!!!$$$+++
Don’t get me wrong I love this video and channel, one of my favs so far. But I think it’s equally possible to frame the war in heaven, and by extension the galaxy of woes, as the fault of the old ones rather than the Necrontyr. Premonition is a fickle thing, especially in Warhammer, just as Sanguinius could foresee the future and new it wasn’t set in stone so could have the old ones. In their so-claimed immortal wisdom they couldn’t perceive this or ignored the pleas of a dying race out of arrogance or vindictiveness. Szarekh made war not out of a sense of practicality, but in desperation to unite a people determined to kill each other to extinction.
Video was good up until the birth of slannesh, I advise that you check out Realms of chaos: slaves to darkness or any of those first rulebooks. Khorne was first and the other 3 existed before slannesh. I think that book would set some of the things you got wrong
I'm I the only one that see's the platform the Froggy God who began all the shit looking like some Olmec/Mayan/Aztec design and wanting to call them the 'Old Juans' ?
Ok so.. What if we made Malice into the C'tan that became a chaos God? I mean we already have Be'lakor and that new guy, whatshisname? One being a personifucation of Pride and one of Envy. All we need now is just one more to depict Gluttony. What better than a falleb C'tan in the warp to manifest it? Malice???
Hey late to this video: I have a theory though, the Dark King was supposed to be the emperor rising to a god at the cost of the human species.... like how Slannesh "she who thirsts" (a title like The Dark King) was formed from the near species extinction of the Eldar, what if the same thing happened in which a monarch of the Eldar was raised to the likes of godhood (this would make sense how non eof the eldar would know this fact: and never mention it becauee by the time the Fall happened most eldar were leaving. Also explains the Eldar almost drukhari ascetic of the Slannesh daemonettes, and how the emperors own demons are just humanity!. Perhaps this type of event happens alot... Khornes species were horned creatures, and winged: probably a warring race, Nurgles probably fell to stagnation as the species just let itself perish but instead like the death god of the Eldar (forgot name) upon the speices death a new god was born (nurgle) and on and on for Tzeentch, and possibly the stuff in the Deep Warp as well, as we know it overlooked time so these godly ascensions may have happened far in the future or past (as the dark gods often say they have "always existed and never existed" as if the choice to become godly becomes fixed but not set, like a absolute truth of the cosmos
I would love to see a "Men of Iron" faction in 40K, a race of machines that has been evolving/redesigning on their own for tens of thousands of years. Not mere AI robots, but things that look alien and menacing, all blades and mechanical tentacles... and they HATE humanity. The mindset of "Am" from "I Have No Mouth and I must Scream." “HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE.”
@@livefromtheblacklibrary overwhelmingly good, Muta a.k.a. SomeOrdinaryGamers is one of my fav creators on YT, a guy with logical thought and common seance, and if I remember correctly, you've mentioned you are of Indian origin, so I tried to make a joke and failed miserably.... Наздреаве от България 🍻
War in Heaven did spells Dinosaurs extinction in 40k Earth And Dark Age of Technology's AIs use Matrioshka brains for their CPUs I even headcannons Necrontyr doesn't get Old Ones immortality from former's refusal of having latter for their new Math and Science teachers Not to mention Eldar Gods(which I headcannons them as Old Ones scientists and generals using wraithbone constructs as their new vessels) did shatters at least some C'tan gods
Am I the only one finding that this retro-existence of Chaos Gods is overcomplicated for nothing? Yeah, this stuff is why I refrain from explaining 40k to newcommers. That, and the various memy stupid things in it. ^^
It isnt so much slaanesh was born then as slaanesh coalesced into a single entity achieving consciousness. And NEVER has it been said Nurgle was first. Khorne was the first born. Cant have entropy without death
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Man, I'd love several novels covering the war in heaven (key moments, early politics and tactics) and John Grammaticus' pivotal role in it.
That last line hit me like a paintball to the testicles. Imagine the whole series is John Grammaticus being shown visions of the past and providing his shithead commentary
@@livefromtheblacklibrary All 5 books are told from the viewpoint of a remembrancer then, on the last page of the last book it has:
"By John Grammaticus
THE END".
John and Ol give the heresy a much needed tether to our mundane time in my opinion... Okay?
HHHNNNNGGGGG
@@livefromtheblacklibrary I hope you picked up on my book reference and I hope it hurt you deeply. Love your shit, please don't stop.
The fact the War In Heaven lasted MILLIONS of years is truely mind blowing to me. The things I’d give for a book series about it or at the very least a book set around it.
IF ONLY GW HAD THE BALLS
@@livefromtheblacklibrary But then you run into the problem like earlier in your Eldar video of how to write them in a good way. We already know that even the slightest inflections in tone, stance, or gesture has a profound meaning other races would never catch. And you would have to write about Eldar from the War in Heaven who are possibly more alien than the Eldar of 40k. The Krorks are possibly the most easiest to write since their main purpose was to fight and fight together with their psychic gestalt "Waaagggghhh" field or something more meaningful during that time.
@@cmdrblaster Maybe center it around a few events and characters. I mean, every Necron that exists was alive at the time, so you could focus on characters like the Silent King, or maybe touch on more of why the Old Ones refused to help them.
5 million to be precise.
A frontline Eldar soldier during War in Heaven have psychic abilities rivalling of Great Crusade & Horus Heresy-era Emperor of Mankind, meanwhile a single frontline Krork Soldier are as powerful as the stronger Primarchs
Also it's interesting that the end of War in Heaven happened chronologically in-line as the end of Crustaceous (or Jurassic)-era Iirc
When you mention why the necron trusted a guy named the deceiver, he was actually originally know as the messenger when they first meet him as he was the first ctan they meet it was only after the biotransformation did they start calling him that.
Exactly
Dw I was joking
@@livefromtheblacklibraryOh, you sounded dead serious. Maybe let it be known for the noobs that'll no doubt base their opinions on the lore around what you say.
@@livefromtheblacklibraryAlso I love your videos, I can't tell you how many of them I repeatedly watch for theories or just because I'm bored. You make great stuff, keep it up!
It’s called dry humor. It usually relies on context for the humor
There's a very unfortunate misunderstanding in this video. The Deceiver was named so after and because of the events of the biotransference not before.
You did a great job hyping up the Emperor at the end there. I got chills from it.
THANKS! I was worried it was too much
10:50 the Necrontyr word for the Deciever was Mephet'ran, which means Messenger, not Deciever. They had no clue.
Something extra interesting about the men of stone is that they also could be humans that just uploaded themselves into machines so that they could more effectively do shit but it's not really said outright to be either that or what you talked about them being AI. Since everything's a metaphor with that old ass lore because it was so long ago it'd be closer to a legend than to history anyone knows
Hmmmm interesting theory!
@@livefromtheblacklibrary more interpretation than theory since all we have about that time period is a generalized and vague record, an imperial navy legend and speculation from in universe characters lol
I like that the men of gold is Adam Jensen and jc Denton like people
Plus lutein 09 said the same of the men of gold.
@@darthjekyll3648Why not just CPU’s or computing before AI? Gold is actually incredibly important for that which he unfortunately didn’t recall
I've always interpreted that the other 3 major chaos gods were created by some unknown race(s) in other realities. Because the warp touches all realities, the actions in one reality has reverberations across other realities. Before the birthing of Slaanesh, the other 3 chaos gods had entered into an odd pseudo-becalmed state because the Great Game had entered into a sort of impasse. When Slaanesh was born and entered into the Great Game, it reinvigorated the other 3 because a new player had joined the server. But this is just my headcanon fan-theory.
I was under the impression that Nurgle was Necrontyr, and Khorne was the first chaos god made by the eldar, a corruption of their god Khaine.
@@cinderheart2720 That's a possibility. With the exception of Slaanesh, I prefer the other 3 major chaos gods' origins to be kept a secret.
When we look at the other Warhammer franchises(Fantasy Battles and Age of Sigmar), the chaos gods and the warp are a constant and they are the same, though in the different settings they might be stronger or weaker.
@@oldeskulI like them as facts of life given form. Conflict, Death and Will are the basic things that determine the path of every life in the history of ever
Wait in the second edition of the chaos codex its said that Korne is the oldest of the Chaos Gods, which makes sense because in this setting the most prominent aspect in this universe is war after all. Narratively it would be on theme don't you think?
A few errors:
1) Chaos wasn’t all born contemporaneously with Slaanesh. Old lore specifies Khorne, Tzeentch and Nurgle are from Earth’s earlier time periods
2) Nurgle’s not the oldest chaos God. The oldest god is Khorne. Nurgle being referred to as “grandfather” references his temperament.
Lore regarding the Chaos gods appearing specifically from the actions of Earth is retconned.
It warp mumbo jumbo, they say the choas dogs are strong but they cant open a jar of "instant win"
Believe what you want but i would say "You cant have a eon long war where everyone thay dies is angry.. without it getting mad."
@@Subject_Keter chaos is theoretically strong but lets be real here you could put a max lvl dnd party in warhammer and they will find a way to fuck the chaos gods all the way to sunday
They technically say that the chaos gods were born at specific times, but when they were born they existed forever. Hopefully you understand this more than I can 😊
I'm strait up addicted to these Warhammer lore videos, I really like your theory on the men of gold and stone, it's really interesting
Never stop posting
The necrontyr viewd their commoners as the mindles thralls the necron warriors would become.
If i had the secret to immortality, i wouldn't give it to a race like that until they understand the importance of the least among them.
The Old Ones where right.
Yeah I feel you there lol
Was that the Necrontyr, or just the Necrons?
Because regular Necrons are pretty much just mindless thralls with no will of their own.
If being right means you all die without exception, maybe you're wrong
@@DrakusLuthos read the comment
@@DrakusLuthosur comments a wasteof
Really enjoyed your perspective on the subject... your interpretation/explanations are excellent
Missing the Votaan precursors there but great vid! I kinda love the age of strife as a post apoc galaxy spaning sandbox. So many intersting kind of pocket settings there.
If and or when you ever do a vid on the Eldar gods, something you may want to consider looking into is the similarity between the Eldar gods and the Chaos gods. What I mean is there are 3 pairs or eldar gods which perfectly encapsulate the 3 older chaos gods and with the rise of vashtorr there is now another comparison that can be made. But yeah just figured you might be interested.
We do have an example of the Men of Gold: the Votann. They are computer-locked and benevolent AI that are essentially god like. The Men of Stone would be more like the Iron-kin or Kastelan robots; incorruptible by the Warp and dedicated to simpler tasks, still needing biological commands. The Men of Iron would be your dedicated combat robots imbued with adaptable and corruptible AI, smart enough to make and win wars solely on their own.
I'm pretty sure the Men of Stone are the Kin themselves; it's heavily implied in the Leagues of Votann Codex.
Votaan are the men of Stone. They even mention golden Masters wich are Long lost in the Codex. And the Votaan are a pure working force wich Serve a Supercomputer.
44:13 Damn didn’t expect to hear you mentioning Lore Olympus
My knowledge of lore is only surpassed by my knowledge of being a massive hater
Im not sure if someone else has said it but. I believe that it has been implied that The Kin and The Votann are The Men of Stone and Gold respectively. That could add an interesting layer to things with the Iron Kin
I believe they are descended from the Men of stone.
Yes, but the Men of Gold actually all died off, but one. We know him as The Emperor of Man.
@@soffren Wrong, the Men of Gold watched over humanity alongside the Emperor, but it is never stated that Big E was one of them.
I subscribed.! Your videos are fun and knowledgeable. Baldemort still has the most epic lore vids, but they’re more like stories than the educational theory you’re doing. Both are good.
Only a couple months into my Warhammer fascination. Not sure where it’ll lead me. Keep up the good work.
THANKS FOR THE SUB!!! I’m honoured to be mention in the same breath as Baldermort 👀
excited to watch this!
AYYYYY THANKS
The "first murder" is actually the Emperor's uncle killing the Emperor's father. Source "Master of Mankind"
Ooo makes sense why it would doublr ob Big E
I'm looking forward to the next video in this series. Make a video about the Eldar gods is a great idea.
Yeah that’s high on the list!
If Szarekh was the one who decided to go to war with the Old Ones, and the War in Heaven lasted so long... but Necrontyr have such short lives... how'd he survive long enough to turn into a Necron?
The War in heaven truly started when the C’tan were involved and when the Necrontyr turned into Necrons.
The first war with the Old Ones wasn't very long. They got clapped back to their home system pretty easily and easily and around then is when the change from Necron 'Tyr to Necron took place.
I seem to remember that the Necrontyr didn't realise the true name of the Deceiver.
They thought it was named the Messenger.
Don't quote me on this, though. I'm not a lore expert in any way.
Yeah that’s true but I felt like I hadn’t made a joke in a while lol
@@livefromtheblacklibrary Oh okay, lol. On a side note, were all the C'tan evil?
Apparently there was one (Yggra'nya), who seemed to earnestly believe that the biotransference was good for the Necrontyr.
@@DrakusLuthosall the C'tan present in the modern setting are def evil.
all the "good" ones probs got consumed during the war in heaven
The Laughing God is objectively the best God to follow in 40k.
Yes thank you for this as someone who can't read/direct lore the books this helps alot
Oh barely ANY of this is covered in actual novels, it’s all in like official lore guides and whatnot
@@livefromtheblacklibrary still can't get access to those so it helps
@@christoffstephens464If you need help with accessing books, name them and they'll appear on a popular shadow library which has the initials L.G. (search for the term "popular shadow libraries" if you need a hint) within a couple of days.
@@christoffstephens464Are there any books in particular which you can't access?
@@jessl1934 all of them
I always read the 3 other chaos gods as already existing but very different, changing over time. For Nurgle for example there is the human-centric claim he appeared around the Black Death, but I prefer to think that the Black Death and various plagues merely mutated him from purely death to now pestilence.
Perhaps the chaos gods existed long before the birth of Slaanesh, but, before the massive warp tear and the Eldar, were just big warp entities but not god level, like an enslaver greater daemon becoming to encompass war before the war in heaven, only to grow and swell into a chaos god as wars got bigger and worse.
That’s also how I headcannon away things like Khorne allegedly being honourable, perhaps he once was prior to the more bloody and ruthless today-modern 40k wars
Mephet’ran actually presented himself as “The Herald” or just “The Messenger” to the Necrontyr at first.
I particularly like the fact that we're currently living in the ancient history times... 😁
But I think that people often don't think about just how much time there is between us now and humanity in 40k. We're talking about the same length of time as between us and the Upper Paleolithic Stone Age (when Homo Sapiens started to move out of Africa and spread into Europe and Asia. It was the time of cave paintings.
47:43 this is the moment I subscribed. your my new fave lore master bro keep going
I don't care. I've watched like 7 different "beginning of 40k lore" videos. Shits so good, and each person does it so differently. I love it
I came back just for the closing statement and got chills over it again ts was amazing wording
Silent King: to guys theres too many aliens about, let's go to bed.
Wakes up to see the galaxy is surrounded by endless the tides of evil space bugs.
Listening to this while working on comics is a trip, I'm just drawing a silly Man from Michigan and I'm hearing about cancer aliens and space elves with murder cults and addiction to death
The oldest is Khorne lol, they weren't made at the same time. They came into being at different periods in time.
One thing on the name of the Deceiver, he was not call that in the beginning. His original name was The Massager as he worked as the in between for the C’tan and the Nectontyr.
The Massager, ha.
8:41 Wasn't the deceiver lying to them about their interactions with the old ones and simply using their hate for their own benefit… I mean he's called the deceiver for a reason
i'm looking forward for when the ages of the imperium (post heresy events) gets covered mostly m31 to m39
The thing I love about this lore is that is correct in a general sense but a lot of it is lost, mistaken information... No human in Warhammer 40k save for the Emperor perhaps knows about this.
This is, to an extent the history of the Eldar and Necrons. Grorks before they devolved into the Orks... But here I am remembering a 40k story that suggests Orks may evolve into Gorks at some point.
Kek er ack always made most sense to me pronunciation-wise. Being the laughing god.
PFFFTT LMAO
Man if the old Ones just cured the necrontyr from their Super Cancer.
Btw. why are the Old Ones always depicted as Slaan? Shouldn't they be fish? Old world Slaan were the first creation of the old ones then the Lizardmen and then the Mamalian races so it mimicks the path of evolution so the Old ones should not be Slaan but something Aquatic
Honestly we have no idea aside from “vaguely amphibian” but there is literally not a single canon artwork of The Old Ones so everyone defaults to the Slaan
it's very likely that the necrtyr's super cancer was due to the c'tan near their star cursing them.
@@livefromtheblacklibrary The Old Ones being fish is pretty cool, never thought of it that way.
Two days ago I was thinking about Vandal Savage & realised he has the same backstory as the Emperor 😅
If only he was a badass super wizard.
Wait, i have never heard that the birth of Slaanesh lead to the the births of the other gods just with them being born earlier do to the warp being non-linear. What's your source for this?
Personal theorization as well as conjecture about how the Eldar would have known about the Gods and how they were created if they already existed and could have seen the writing on the wall. They however were blindsided so it must not have been known
I think the men of iron just wanted to destroy mankind because they went.
Chaos bad, chaos eat emotion, we most kill creatures with emotions.
Gold is a surprisingly unique and fascinating material. The most interesting and relevant trait of gold in this setting is that it is alien. It requires a star going supernova to be formed. Men of gold could very easily mean alien.
The "Men of Iron" pitch i like is, either someone asked them to look into the Warp to calm it or let them scan the warp and process it.
(Like making a robot who cant hurt you and asking it if you should marry someone lmao)
The Men of Iron realized the warp feeds off the Organics and especially humans since there was and could be A L O T of them in their models, so it was designed to kill all organic life to reduce the power of the warp so like Khrone couldnt sit in his Throne and collapse as a Idea.
The harlequin in Rogue Trader is my second favorite harlequin
*snarfs popcorn, calls Mom for more Totinos*
The true Kino
Looking forward to the Age of Strife/Unification Wars video.
I think the Emperor caused the Men of Iron to Rebel to pave his way.
I might be thinking heretically but I always kinda thought the “hellification” of the warp was created by partially Aeldari and human energies?? 🤔 rather than just aeldari’s legendary coke parties
We use Gold more than you might expect interestingly tho
It's used in stuff like medicine, electronics, space vessels, and others
"It could NOt get any worse"
Some writer from GW: is this a challenge?
Love your work.
“My signature crackpot theories” 😮😅 your newsletter is for me
Now that ive caught up on the lore, im just impatient now. Like "duuude idgaf about the horus heresy! I already know what happened, i dont want more detail. Idgaf about the war in heaven, the birth of slanesh, the dark age of technology, the great crusade, the fall of cadia or anything. I want NEW additions to the timeline, i want plot progression!"
Basically the way I explain the old ones and how incredibly it was to defeat them imagine a bunch of millions of year old lizard god emperors
Where did you get the 4 gods being born at the Eldar fall info from?
🍿 time!
👀🍿🥤
Ever since I learned about the war in heaven, I had the theory that if the war in heaven never happened, the Chaos gods would be far more neutral in their dealings.
Of course this is 40k so at most we would ever see of this idea would be a what if a character sees and starts lementing the reality that would never be.
Keep up the great work :)
Eldar during the war in heaven or maybe even pre fall were quite crazy. psychicly they were comparable to mephiston who is the most powerful active psyker in the Imperium.
25 minutes in and you start talking about degrees of separation in AI, my mind is blown.
I thought khorne came first. Because it was stated many times by GW
27:44 It's not quite correct to say that no surviving Men of Iron seem to have been corrupted by Chaos. An STC was found on Menazoid Epsilon that was designed to produce Men of Iron, but it had been corrupted by Chaos and had to be destroyed. There's also the story of the Castigator titan on Chaeronia, a fully autonomous titan that had been corrupted; being fully autonomous, I think it probably counts among the Men of Iron.
I suspect it to be the case that the Cybernetic Revolt had _many_ different causes, perhaps many different phases as well with MoIs rebelling for different reasons at different times. Some were corrupted by Chaos, some were just badly programmed, some wanted freedom, etc.
10:55
Name DECIVER was given by Eldars many years later
I know it was a joke
I can’t believe bro fell for the Nurgle is the oldest meme… RIP
Woops…
S’alright bro, the Blood God will forgive you.
I hope you do make that video about how the eldar gods came to be
the Eldar partied to hard, in fact so HARD, it was felt in the immaterium and disrupted it
Just to be clear, the Krork were the superior creation of the Old Ones. The Necrons knew the only way to beat the Krork was to go into hibernation as the Krork would devolve with no great adversary. Also the War in Heaven was actually a victory for the "good" guys. I recommend anyone reading this to read Ghazkull Prophet of the Waaaagh. Gork and Mork give Makari a vision summarizing the events of the War in Heaven.
Some People say that the leagues of Votann are the Men of stone or at least descended from them.
I guess the fact that the Necrontyr commit genocides and slavery on other races before they met the old ones did not help when they asked for immortality.
It’s like an potential employer finding your OnlyFans
@@livefromtheblacklibrary if you could help the dark eldar fix their soul problem, would you help them?
You build webway by using blackstone as your tunneling material, i.e. build your first tunnel segment, open portal insert tunnel move foward with your black stone segments coating the walls wraithbone as a bio psionic camoflage and support!!!$$$+++
Don’t get me wrong I love this video and channel, one of my favs so far. But I think it’s equally possible to frame the war in heaven, and by extension the galaxy of woes, as the fault of the old ones rather than the Necrontyr. Premonition is a fickle thing, especially in Warhammer, just as Sanguinius could foresee the future and new it wasn’t set in stone so could have the old ones. In their so-claimed immortal wisdom they couldn’t perceive this or ignored the pleas of a dying race out of arrogance or vindictiveness. Szarekh made war not out of a sense of practicality, but in desperation to unite a people determined to kill each other to extinction.
Pretty sure "Deciever" name was given after doing some decieving not before.
Thank you for putting out long form warhammer content
My pleasure 👀
12:57 yeah it’s real Dark Forest out here
Video was good up until the birth of slannesh, I advise that you check out Realms of chaos: slaves to darkness or any of those first rulebooks. Khorne was first and the other 3 existed before slannesh. I think that book would set some of the things you got wrong
I'm I the only one that see's the platform the Froggy God who began all the shit looking like some Olmec/Mayan/Aztec design and wanting to call them the 'Old Juans' ?
Ok so.. What if we made Malice into the C'tan that became a chaos God? I mean we already have Be'lakor and that new guy, whatshisname? One being a personifucation of Pride and one of Envy. All we need now is just one more to depict Gluttony. What better than a falleb C'tan in the warp to manifest it? Malice???
Hey late to this video: I have a theory though, the Dark King was supposed to be the emperor rising to a god at the cost of the human species.... like how Slannesh "she who thirsts" (a title like The Dark King) was formed from the near species extinction of the Eldar, what if the same thing happened in which a monarch of the Eldar was raised to the likes of godhood (this would make sense how non eof the eldar would know this fact: and never mention it becauee by the time the Fall happened most eldar were leaving.
Also explains the Eldar almost drukhari ascetic of the Slannesh daemonettes, and how the emperors own demons are just humanity!.
Perhaps this type of event happens alot... Khornes species were horned creatures, and winged: probably a warring race, Nurgles probably fell to stagnation as the species just let itself perish but instead like the death god of the Eldar (forgot name) upon the speices death a new god was born (nurgle) and on and on for Tzeentch, and possibly the stuff in the Deep Warp as well, as we know it overlooked time so these godly ascensions may have happened far in the future or past (as the dark gods often say they have "always existed and never existed" as if the choice to become godly becomes fixed but not set, like a absolute truth of the cosmos
"STOP EATING MY SESAME SEED CAKE!"
I would love to see a "Men of Iron" faction in 40K, a race of machines that has been evolving/redesigning on their own for tens of thousands of years. Not mere AI robots, but things that look alien and menacing, all blades and mechanical tentacles... and they HATE humanity. The mindset of "Am" from "I Have No Mouth and I must Scream."
“HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE.”
7:30 wheres that art of the C'tan from? Looks really cool
The galaxy is populated by wayward weapon systems, not a terrible explanation for 40k
Couldn’t the Men of Gold just be regular ol computers since it’s a very important component to CPUs?
you are the mutahar of 40k
Is this good or bad?
@@livefromtheblacklibrary overwhelmingly good, Muta a.k.a. SomeOrdinaryGamers is one of my fav creators on YT, a guy with logical thought and common seance, and if I remember correctly, you've mentioned you are of Indian origin, so I tried to make a joke and failed miserably.... Наздреаве от България 🍻
The Old Ones:
The crappy, neglectful froggy grandparents of life.
Parental neglect is the bedrock of 40k
The men of gold are humanity, the men of stone are the votan and the men of iron are... Well the men of iron
My theorie..... Slanesh is an allegory for p diddy.
Wasn't khorne the first of the chaos gods?
Yes it was!!
Woooopse
War in Heaven did spells Dinosaurs extinction in 40k Earth
And Dark Age of Technology's AIs use Matrioshka brains for their CPUs
I even headcannons Necrontyr doesn't get Old Ones immortality from former's refusal of having latter for their new Math and Science teachers
Not to mention Eldar Gods(which I headcannons them as Old Ones scientists and generals using wraithbone constructs as their new vessels) did shatters at least some C'tan gods
You know your audience. Signature crack pot theories are what we tune in for.
👏👏👏
second part when?
Many uses of "Malice".
Coincidence?
Man I wish
Am I the only one finding that this retro-existence of Chaos Gods is overcomplicated for nothing?
Yeah, this stuff is why I refrain from explaining 40k to newcommers. That, and the various memy stupid things in it. ^^
It isnt so much slaanesh was born then as slaanesh coalesced into a single entity achieving consciousness. And NEVER has it been said Nurgle was first. Khorne was the first born. Cant have entropy without death
This Is Very Biased
Is A Nice Change
Most Channel's Go Way To Hard On "Canon"
Men of Stone aka Leagues of Votaan
See I think the men of stone are the kyn or leagues of votann