@@scottsimmons2596 *that's true, a lot of people today have been having a ton of disappointments in forex and crypto trading in light of helpless decisions awful specialists.*
@@Peter4253 Converting existing combustion engines from fossil fuels to operate on hydrogen makes more sense to me. Like converting to propane but cleaner.
there are no advantages of hydrogen, unless you want most efficient rocket engine in space. In that case, you need either hydrogen or photons as reaction mass
The main point is environmental weight. What do you want, a litium battery that hits the landfill when dead or water exhaust from hydrogen. Easy answer.
No, electric is not better than hydrogen. You skipped all together the recycling/disposal of electric car batteries (which by the way it's a huge environmental problem that everyone chooses to overlook because companies like Tesla make mountains of money from producing and selling batteries). Why don't you do a real comparison between the actual costs and challenges of recycle/dispose of the electric battery based cars vs the hydrogen fuel cell cars? That would show the real cost!
I wonder: How long are fuel cells expected to last and how do you dispose of those? Probably not that much different at this point, but you make a good point, we should also be thinking about other issues not discussed in this video.
Ev batteries will be recycled so they can be used for home electricity storage. You really need to Google can Ev batteries be recycled and educate yourself.
Totally agree on your perspective of the huge negative environmental impact generated by electric car batteries regarding future buildup and disposal which was neglectly pointed out. Think hydrogen cars would be the future if appropriate effort for research/funding on a possible extraction/cheaper/safe/clean method of oxygen and storing it. If you might be aware of, have you heard of Deuterium{H3O}, water high in hydrogen located somewhere in the Phil.Deep waters/unlimited/regularly flowing wonder of nature. As what I understand from the review of some Experts, Deterium once extrated doesn't need further high processing to store oxygen/much cheaper method.. Hope this can be further exploited.
Firstly a hydrogen car can be combustion driven you should qualify what type, you are talking about hydrogen cell. Secondly hydrogen cell is an electric car because it's driven by electric motors.
@@stuarthirsch but ice engines are more fun to drive. If you drive an automatic then i may aswell not continue this conversation because a non car guy wont get it. Its good that toyota is making a hydrogen ice car because at least there will be something fun to drive
@@patrykrog8121 You obviously haven’t driven a Tesla or Mustang Mach-E. Maybe you drove compliance EVs like the trash Nissan LEAF, but that does not count. Btw, there’s a reason why manual cars are a rarity. Gas cars will become the same, but you’ll still be able to drive them. It’ll be financially idiotic if you do though, looking about 10 years into the future.
What has been completely overlooked is the energy used in mining and converting the resources to make batteries etc. Etc! Hydrogen will run in modified Internal combustion engines, without producing NOX! Look to see what JCB have done with Hydrogen in their own Newly developed Hydrogen engines! Also, the process to convert water to Hydrogen is becoming much more efficient over time. I will place my bets on hydrogen! My hat is off for David Colins who has already come up with a fantastic resolution to using the energy wasted at Nuclear plants to make hydrogen overnight when the plant is virtually unused! Thank you David for such a brilliant suggestion! Just found out that Ammonia NH3 is the new fuel! Especially if we can use the wasted energy from Nuclear power.
Yes. I think as technology improves there will be a lot more ways we can use these spent fuels. I read another article saying that it’s possible to have a battery that last like 40 years
This video was biased heavily towards electric. However, currently there are 36 million vehicles on the roads daily in the UK, that means we would need 50 million chargers by 2030 and we are no where near that target. However, because successive governments have not invested in our power generation, but instead out sourced to France and China, neither of which, you could claim to be our friends or allies, they just need to drag the length of time out in building further power stations, and as our population continues to expand through immigration, divorce (requiring 2 homes instead of 1) births, and MPs who can't keep it in their trousers and end up with 7 kids, and eventually this country will grind to a halt, due to power cuts caused by to high a demand. Old English saying, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" true then, true now, true in the future !
Hyundai may not agree with you. In Britain during the final quarter of 2019 - so pre pandemic - Hyundai sold just *one* single example of their Nexo hydrogen powered SUV. The UK just is not interested in Hydrogen for cars. Nobody wants it here.
@@Brian-om2hh There's virtually no hydrogen infrastructure for refuleing cars in the UK, so why would you buy one in the UK? Germany and Japan are investing heavily in a hydrogen infrastructure. Germany plans to have 60,000 hydrogen cars on the road in the next 3 years. As usual the UK car industry will be left behind, however some heating boiler manufacturers in the UK are producing hydrogen ready boilers (gas boilers) and I understand that about a 20% hydrogen blend will be trialled soon, so hydrogen is on the way.
We need to study models of how many ev fueling stations we would actually need as multiples of current gas station plus queuing theory assumptions. If everyone is electric and few have home plugins how many do we need so that max wait time is not hours? This is a much bigger issue than presented here.
Why few have home plug ins. A simple 50 amp 220 plug is all one needs which is like a typical RV outlet or Welding outlet etc. 90% of people or more drive less the 100 miles a day so once you have a plug installed at your home you pretty much never need to fuel up while out and about. If you travel it can take some planning or else you can just use your worthless ICE vehicle if you prefer.
@@jstar1000 what makes you think its nonsense? I have installed climate control chambers so they could test the technology under extreme conditions. Perhaps you should do some research. They a loo ready have a hydrogen burning car on the road for as few years now. 20 plus.
No, is inertia. There is no force in the ''rotation motion'' except the inertia it has. You may talk about centrifugal force but obvious you don't understand the phenomenon.
Actually, it's the kinetic energy of the moving vehicle that is converted back to electricity to recharge the battery. Inertia is an object's resistance to being moved.
Yes it's recovering the kinetic energy, but the kinetic energy is turning the wheels I.e. creating rotational motion, the wheels turn the motor, and it's the rotational movement of the motor running backwards and acting as a generator that provides the braking force and generates the electricity.
Let's try Lithium batteries are produced, with some pollution.... ONCE. The Drive / fuel conversion system of a Fossil car is produced with a similar amount of pollution....ONCE (mining, transport, smelting of metals, machining, etc.... Including rare earth elements!) THEN the fossil car requires a continuous supply of fossil fuel, which is polluting during its "mining" ...(there's the word you were looking for!)... It's transport, refinement (using COBALT btw!) secondary transport to point of use, AND when burnt in the engine. How's that for revelation? Oh... I forgot. Once the battery constituents are in "the system" they will be recovered at the end of life of the original cell, then used AGAIN in a new cell. Try that with fossil fuel?
@@mandrc5562 That's not true at all, it's all readily available info. You can't hide stuff like that about one of the fastest growing industries in a capitalist world.
@@rogerstarkey5390 actually there are videos that show how they are made. Also show how with your “ ONCE” they are dirty than has. And as always as with all you EV lovers , you left out it’s powered by Coal 80% of all our electric ⚡️ is powered by dirty dirty dirty coal! You also forgot to add that the grid couldn’t handle even 20% of our cars converted to electric ⚡️ let alone all of them! Oh lastly that the material to make your batteries 🔋 are finite & a - 100% switch from fossils would deplete them in 15 years. Sad 😢 and yes I’ve heard about them recycling the batteries 🔋 ah yes now they’re way dirtier than fuel ⛽️. Go hydrogen lol 😝
I’ll buy a H2 vehicle, when I can pour home tap-water in it, and it will convert the tap-water to H2 (within the vehicle). Otherwise, until then, I’ll stick with a BEV, that allows me to charge it at home ;-)
Well that ain’t possible any time soon, you need energy to do that, can’t make a perpetual motion machine as such, but you could have something that makes hydrogen at home so you still get the ‘charge at home’ concept.
Hydrohen generator's have been around for a while. But the way they are doing it you can't do at home. People have ran gas engines with hydrogen generators mounted in the back of their truck. That uses distilled water.
Electronic cars, no way!! To expensive to buy, very expensive to fix. Many long trip problems. Long wait times to get to where your going. And hopefully the battery never go's bad because, it will cost you more than your depreciation car. Just nothing but problems. Take it from a X tesla owners. I say X because the problems they incountered was dreadful and very expensive to own. Back to a sure thing the old reliable gas engine ⛽. Maintenance, pull in the station and go, (DONE). SEE YOU LATER..!!
I wonder the why government can’t generate the electricity by using hydrogen for ev cars and all usues. We can get the electricity in home but can’t get hydrogen.
Both Battery Technology and Hydrogen should be used according to their merits and what with the constantly improving of both technologies the efficiency balance between them altered to get the best out of both.
This won’t happen in the heavily subsidized electric car market by the globalist government. If it was a free market the hydrogen car either electric or combustion engine would be the better way. Sadly, the CCP is in charge of the new USSACCP. We are not being allowed, via legislation, to mine the materials needed to make the batteries for the electric cars, and RPC/CCP is cornering the market on the materials to make the batteries. So with this stated, the hydrogen car is ☠️; unless it can survive the current USSACCP administration. THE USA IS BEING MADE TO BOW TO THE CCP BY THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION! Therefore, the one world order is on the fast track.
@@KaosNova2 it is! in fact the trucks and the airplains are far better going with hydrogen because of the wait and the time. city cars can be easly charged in 30 min and the times will go down
Pretty sure there is no heat capture involved in electric cars capturing energy during braking. They reverse the polarity of the motor, turning into a generator that turns from the cars momentum and produces electricity to charge the battery.
Notice how he talks a lot about how harmful the production of hydrogen is for the environment, but avoids telling us just how harmful the creation of lithium batteries is on the environment- the amount of water used in the process is insane.
hmmm why would hydrogen ( a fuel that you have to refill the tank on the vehicle) production be compared to the production of batteries (a electrochemical storage unit that you purchase the vehicle with)? Wouldn't a BEV battery need to be compared to the fuel cell system in a FCEV and was the latter production /environmental impact of the latter detailed in this presentation?
@@milanswoboda5457 Yeah, I haven't heard of any child labor for mining lithium either. Child labor is an issue for mining cobalt for batteries of all types including EV's in the DRC (Democratic Republic of the Congo) Africa.
@@electrified3407 Yep that's the correct element related to the child labor issue but also there how much of it is hype vs. reality? How much percentage of this artisanal cobalt child labor mining is in the cobalt used for battery manufacture? I doubt anyone really knows and that holds also true for cobalt used in refineries as catalyst for fuel desulphurization, tools used in machining for a very wide range of manufacturing processes which include items we use in our every day life, ...etc.
Hydrogen production at sea (either using tidal forces, wave, solar or wind power) could be used to produce and store hydrogen gas that could be stored in liquid form in sea-bed containers. Using this approach offshore sites could be visited by tankers that would just collect the stored hydrogen - to me this might be the most efficient and cleanest method to produce the fuel.
Yes but the CEO of the worlds largest wind turbine producer in the world thinks that hydrogen is not the way to go and refuses to spend any of the billions they make on it. BIG mistake.
Hydrogen cars are more suited for densely populated urban areas, were there are not enough private parking areas to charge during night time. Autonomous vehicles may solve this charging problem in the future, but right now hydrogen cars are more user friendly because they don't need night charging. Also the grid and power generation must be upgraded to take care of many more EVs. There are infrastructure issues for both types of cars.
“Hydrogen is inefficient because it doesn’t occur naturally”, but we all can get batteries naturally, there are plants with battery, He doesn’t research anything he just see other RUclips videos and make new animation thing.
Also since when is generating electricity a natural occurring event. He also never talked about the loses during the electrical generation. I guess he never studied up on that. Nice picture of a wind turbine, it kind of makes people think or believe that wind is a major source of generation. Get your facts straight.
@@robmclaren664 WTF are you talking about?! Hydrogen ALSO need electricity generation and it need 3 times MORE electricity to cover same distance compared to electric cars! You need electricity to to water electrolysis to get hydrogen. BOTH hydrogen and electric vehicle need electricity generation!! The only difference is that hydrogen need 3 times more electricity per mile.
@@martindolinsek7589 agreed. but the kWh/mile required to drive a BEV is MUCH higher than that of a FCEV due to the sheer weight - again, both have their places - daily commutes for people that do 20-50 mile round trips - BEVs are probably a better choice. Going on a roadtrip to that beach 200 miles away on a summer holiday? With a BEV you'd be waiting in line at a station for 4 hours before waiting another 15-45 minutes to charge your car. Oh, and what about the electrical infrastructure to account for such high current requirements once BEVs get more and more utilised? It's expensive either way - having all your eggs in one basket is no way to look at it!
@@AritraDalal No, not true. BEV use WAYY LESS kWh/mile compared to FCEV! If you count the energy what is in the tank then FCEV uses 1 kg of hydrogen per 100 km, which is 33 kWh per 100 km. BEV only use around 18 kWh per 100 km. But to produce that 1 kg of hydrogen (=33 kWh) you need 55 kWh! So you need 3 times more energy PER MILE for FCEV. Or almost 2 times MORE energy for FCEV if you exclude production. In reality BEV are LIGHTER than FCEV! In reality Tesla model 3 long range weights 1829 kg and have an EPA range 353 miles, but hydrogen fuel cell vehicle (FCEV) Toyota Mirai weight 1,848 kg and have only 312 miles. So FCEV is heavier that BEV for the same range in reality. There is no lines to charge up (4 hours, are you mad?!). To charge a Tesla for 300 km you need only 15 minutes of DC fast charging. 99 % of charging is done at home overnight at no extra time spend just plug the cable fot 5 seconds and you are done=current requirenment for that is very low. To install public fast chargers it cost 200 LESS compared to hydrogen station! Hydrogen station cost 2 milion dollars to install, and electric fast charger only 10k.
That is the similar reason people used to give 10 years ago for EV that they do not have infrastructure so they will not succeed. The cost of hydrogen is high mainly due to low demand
Agreed, we have the electric grid, we don't have a hydrogen grid. Hydrogen is difficult and much more expensive, difficult, and dangerous to transport and store.
And that is the issue. Hydrogen is never going to be an inexpensive option. Nor will there be the option to produce your own at home, in the same way you can with solar.
Really, I think not, how many hydrogen powered cars do you see on the road today compared to how many electirc cars are on the road and coming in the next few years.
In the longer run, Hydrogen model is way better IMHO. The lithium batteries have a very short shelf life in terms of efficiency and storage capacity. Replacing them every 3 to 4 years is way worse than setting up all solar grid at a remote place to separate hydrogen and oxygen.
Why would you replace them every 3 to 4 years when they have an 8 year warranty? And note that's a *warranty* not the lifespan, which is often 10+ years, after which the pack can be refurbished at a fraction of the cost of a total replacement. Lithium batteries used in home energy system often carry a 10 year warranty, and usually last 15 to 20 years.
in my country we use watt and kilowatt to measure our electric bills..I used to study about how to use jules in my school but seems that I cant remember at all to use it😂
So there is a detailed run through of how hydrogen is "farmed" and all of the steps go towards how efficient or lack there of it is but not one mention of the mining "farming" steps for creating lithium batteries!?!? And therefore no consideration for energy loss and pollution from electric cars? Not even a in-depth walkthrough of battery end of life.... Do better!!!
Agree. However resource mining for batteries happen once and lasts the lifetime of the battery which is generally 300,000 miles. Hydrogen needs to be created for every refuel creating much more waste over the lifetime of the vehicle.
They have found the moon is covered in the stuff that is why most of the big countries including America want to be there as soon as possible 2024 is said to be the first steps back on the moon. The Russians have been working on it for years and now have a system for collecting it and getting it back at a reasonable cost. The moon has a better supply of rare earth elements easily obtained without earth environmental damage. Now you know why Elon is manufacturing reusable Heavy-lift Starships every three days, incredible but the wealth to the world is also incredible.
so where is the mention of the mining "farming" steps for creating fuel cell systems with the consideration for energy loss and pollution from fuel cell ELECTRIC CARS? time marker please
@@jasonrassett8487 Curious where you get a battery pack lasting 300,000 miles? At what efficiency or capacity is a battery after 300,000 miles? 40% with a range of 20 miles?
It's not much less of a problem because there will never be enough "wasted" renewable electricity to produce enough hydrogen for the consumer vehicle market, unless the customer base for hydrogen cars remains very small.
hydrogen cars are very old stuff, but its still much more expensive to manufacture and less effective in terms of energy usage than e-cars. Never will be a thing ... or what I can imagine is combine them as hybrid cars, but not standalones
For all you people saying that you can charge a car in your home,remember not everyone has their own compound let alone a garage, many people live in overcrowded towns parking their cars on the street,just because you have a garage that is not the case for everyone things on the ground are pretty much different they are not as you think they might seem,what is wrong with you people seriously speaking🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
@@mhm3437 c’mon , you clearly haven’t thought this through .....maybe on new builds yes , but not on existing apartment blocks ... the nio battery swap stations are the answer .
WRONG , a TESLA Semi with 4680 can go 1000 km or 625 + miles on a Charge , and can FULLY CHARGE durrng a mandatory SLEEP PERIOD . and can Supplement with DC FAST charging along the way.
@@phillipzx3754 - H2 fuel Hydrogen is LARGLY produced with FOSSIL FUELS , not RENEWABLES. Renewable Energy is the CHEAPEST on EARTH. in the NEXT DECADE - SWB , Solar, Wind Battery will OVERTAKE ALL Conventional forms of Energy Production. Hydrogen will become a STRANDED ACCET .
@@phillipzx3754 - its NOT a good solution, H2 fuel uses lots of DIRTY fuel to Create Hydrogen , Solar , Wind , Battery is the CHEPEST energy on EARTH and has ZERO emissions. Hydrogen is a VERY inefficient PROCESS and lots of Energy WASTED in creation of H2 fuel. you also have to factor in TRANSPORT and STORAGE of the fuel . which also, WASTES energy because there are so FEW Hydrogen trucks that can Transport H2 fuel to Stations. and for H2 vehicles more Energy gets WASTED in OPERATION of the Vehicles , Hydrogen Vehicles are only 30% Efficient compared to 90% in a TESLA electric vehicle. you are Dragging arround batteries as well as FUEL, Tank, and FCV stack.
The absolute issue is which can travel faster on a 1500 mile trip.. Electric recharge or Hydrogen.. Vehicles that only go 30 miles before refuel are OK as long as they can be refueled/charges quickly. Dont actually see electric planes in the near future..
If you don't see electric planes in the near future, you may need to look a little harder. Here in the UK there are electric aircraft already being trialled....
Recently upgraded my Lexus suv to a gas powered Mercedes at a cost of $8000.the Lexus averaged 17/18 mpg in mostly city driving on regular gas. The Mercedes is averaging18/31mpg in city/hwy driving on mid grade fuel. The Lexus had150000miles only it and we drove it for over 10 years. $0 paymemts. We paid the Mercedes off as well. I priced the Tesla model out at $47000. The Nissan was found to be too small I’m 6”5” and felt the Leaf to be too small as the only car. I don’t expect to see myself getting more than 10 years of use out of it, then pass it on to my granddaughters who should get another decade of use. While I like Tesla’s model 3, I wouldn’t get the use out of it.the Mercedes can get 500 miles per tank of gas, which I estimate will be available for the next 20 years. It will take that long to convert all the personal cars to electric. I have driven several of my cars more than 200,000 miles each. EV Range is woefully inadequate for long distance driving,adding hours of time just to refuel. I used to travel from Florida north to east end of Long Island. We used the Auto Train to ship the car with us rather than fight the traffic. Decent EVs are still too expensive for us peons.
Hmmm a fuel cell car is also an electric car and there had been Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles ( e.g. GM Electrovan ) long before Lithium Ion batteries made it into an EV
dude...they have been trying Hydro since I was a kid (57 now) its the infrastructure that is the issue but now, in 2021....check out Norway and Germany: Tesla model 3 outsold BMW 3-series, MB C-class and Audi A3 saloons combined. EVs are happening mate. China is invading Europe next year with some crazy, sexy and Cheaper models with new technology battery packs. Hydro simply never gonna happen , just perhaps for large commercial vehicles...maybe.
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Hydrogen vehicles 10 minutes to refuel, but no infrastructure in place and also very expensive vs Electric vehicles 30 minutes or longer to recharge, and where do you think the electricity comes from? Hmmm...Maybe we should return back to horse and buggy 🤔
Toyota is coming out w hydrogen line thats going to crush EVs. EVs have a lot of probs. Dendritic spiking etc. The only reason EVs pulled ahead HVs stalled in tech? Politics. Like using vaccuum tubes to diodes & chips WWII. Set electronics back 20 yrs. Edisons GE was well connected.
Just the fact that it takes hours to "fill the tank" in an electric car turns me off. Yes then there Is the lithium battery disposal contamination problems , that is scary. I like electric vehicles but lean towards Hydrogen power still.
Yeah again the hydrogen is extremely costly and too complicated and not really friendly. So yes it is behind the battery which is soon to evolve into something greater, that is the battery
@@craighoagland4829 No, technically a hydrogen car is a Hybrid. It works exactly like a diesel-electric locomotive. If it's battery is big enough to be plugged in overnight so it will drive a few miles without the generator running, it's a plug-in hybrid.
@@adrianguggisberg3656 Hydrogen fuel cell cars are not hybrid, and doesn't store electricity in batteries. It is always producing electricity when the cell is working.
@@blazegeorge6688 All fuel cell cars need batteries to store electric energy. The fuel cell cannot provide the flexibility required for landgoing vehicles. It could work for a ship and possibly even for plane. However, the process in the fuel cell is exactly the same as in a combustion engine. Fuel from a tank and oxygen from the atmosphere are being used to produce energy. A fuel cell with a parallel battery as it's used in all hydrogen fuel cell cars is exactly the same principle as what you find in a Toyota Prius.
the very limited range of electric cars is being ignored and it is an absolute deal killer. we will only realized this when it is too late. ELECTRIC CARS ARE A FAD. Mark my words on this. make the combustion engines more efficient. that is the answer.
Regarding the enviromental impact of these technologies, the video completely ignores the fact that most of the electricity from the grid used to charge electric car batteries comes from burning coal.
What comes additional to that is the amount of energy you need to produce the lithium cells. To recycle them is practically impossible what leads to toxic waste.
@@rohei1681 Recycling lithium cells is practically impossible? You'd better tell Volkswagen. They built an EV recycling plant in Zwickau in Eastern Germany a while ago, and have been using it ever since. The video of the recycling process is here on RUclips. I didn't see any toxic waste, as almost everything was recycled and reused......
Right now there are 11 hydrogen fuelling stations currently in the uk, but 13,000 electric charging stations.. You don't need a crystal ball to see the future of hydrogen cars 😂😂 solid state battery technology is a few years away with 500 mile ranges and 5 minute recharging capabilities.... Evs are electric vehicles and just need batteries not fuel cells
@Harreson...a while back SOME GUYS CRYSTALL BALL showed just 12 Horseless Carriage Model T...no filling stations....and about 18,000 Horse with Carriage and several hundred thousand horses...point is......HYDROGEN is here to stay...will grow significantly over next 5 years ....however...Generation Y and Z will prefer PILOTLESS DRONES as the personal transportation of Choice by 2040 so all the previous modes of transportation...including horse and buggy...will all be museum pieces.
@@renegallegos7938 Just invest your millions in the infrastructure then. What are you waiting for? A surefire bet, right? :) Meanwhile hydrogen for cars is making less and less sense since every year they will cost more than an equivalent EV. Sure, a 1000 mile hydrogen vs 500 mile EV kinda sorta makes sense, until you realise that the EV will be much cheaper to operate overall. 1000 miles - that is a $50 trip hydrogen vs a $15 trip electric (granted, $20 extra will be spent on food during the 30 min pit stop).
@@wertigon The high cost of hydrogen is mainly due to the low demand. But I have a few reasons why Hydrogen holds a chance. EV have a lot of lithium ion batteries. These batteries will degrade slowly. The process of recycling Lithium is difficult, and if it is recycled then it is not profitable. Even fuel cell vehicles need batteries but the amount of batteries hydrogen cars need is way less than in a conventional EV. The range of a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle depends upon the amount of hydrogen fuel cells and not the amount of batteries in the vehicle, and because the charge has to be stored for a short period of time, then hydrogen cars can use supercapacitors instead of lithium ion batteries. Supercapacitors unlike their lithium ion counterparts, can last like forever
Strangely, the same coal fired power stations have powered the oil refineries which probably produced the fuel for the car you drive, yet you don't see that as an issue? Strange.
Heeeey! Hydrogen can be used as fuel that is directly injected in burn chamber, true dyalise system that is extracted from wather wich is in tank instead of normal fuel, bideway whith 1 liter wather vehicle can rich 800 km, how about that hydrogen motor?!
Total electric efficiency loss of 5% over a distribution network is wholly underestimated. According to a paper by Imperial College London it suggests a loss of 36-47% in Low Voltage network and 17-27% in High Voltage network.
Electric vehicles is winning the battle for powering vehicles, largely because of government subsidizes and the cost of producing hydrogen versus using electricity directly, especially if you are talking about producing electricity with wind and solar. What is being missed is the efficiencies that could be achieved with a nuclear energy. The cost of producing hydrogen could be reduced by building a new generation of nuclear plants and placing the hydrogen producing facilities close by. The hydrogen plants would run late at night at these plants which would reduce the overall cost of nuclear energy by essential using the electricity produced in off hours to produce a secondary product, ie, hydrogen. The problem is that nuclear energy is not being built in this country even though it obviously is the answer to produce the base load that wind and solar needs. I really believe this solution would be the cheapest solution for producing vast amount of alternative energy but it would take the government to go all in on such a solution. But the leftish have brainwashed the public that only windmills and solar are solutions. They are not.
So obviously even Tesla has been forced to seek a more viable energy source than the Extension Cord. When I see as many Hydrogen stations as I do Gasoline stations, get back to me. So far I am waiting to see my first, which is the same result for battery recharge stations next to the Motel where I Can spend the next night while the battery recharges. P.T. Barnum understood, he said there was one of you born every minute. Nostradamus had nothing on Ol' Barnum and his predictions. Say I hear Biden is subsidizing battery cars, as long as they're not Tesla. Just the Lousy ones, made by GM.
@@rogerstarkey5390 If you have a renewable energy source behind electrolysis you can produce hydrogen clean and efficient. Can we achieve the same result with crude oil? If the electricity is provided in that specific area why we need transportations? The infrastructure is already here we only need a reliable power source.
@@Volkyno Ah! The "Free Renewable source" opinion! As a clean energy advocate I'm always being told "but only X% of the grid is clean energy" ...... Which is true! (Increasing, but true) Therefore, we need all we can get and we need to use it to *offset as much fossil fuel generation as possible* (I'm sure you agree?) That being the case, when applied to the task of moving "a vehicle" we have 2 "new solutions"? Straight BEV Hydrogen. Take 3 "units" of Electrical Energy (assume they're "green") Process those 3 units to move a BEV and you get an output of about 2.4 units "at the wheels" (80% efficient)? Do the same with Hydrogen, you get about 1 unit (maybe less) "at the wheels? 2 viewpoints. You move the BEV 2.4 times the distance for the same energy. Or You just used an extra 1.4 units for the same distance. That's 1.4 units which could have (SHOULD have!) been used to offset fossil generation. That means 1.4 units of DIRTY energy was produced and used elsewhere. Therefore *Hydrogen is not CLEAN* Even if you use clean energy. It's DIRTY on an ongoing basis. ......... As for the next "argument" "But if it was going to be wasted, if it was SPARE capacity!!!" Simple BUILD MORE STORAGE. Build it ONCE and that energy is never wasted again. Just btw, it doesn't have to be Lithium based storage! Cheap but bulky versions are available. It's that simple!!
Electrolysis itself is around 68 to 80% efficient in most applications - and that too, it's only looking at utilising the hydrogen, and throwing out the O2. Electrical charging infrastructure requires a huge amount infrastructure upgrade to deal with peaks of current usage - yes you can "gather" all the electrical energy in a HUGE space comsuming battery farm, or in a smaller high pressure hydrogen bund :)
NIO is a cheating story to trap people's money. Trust Chinese companies, why not directly pouring money into the sea? The core of any EV cars is the battery. Any swapping of batteries means hand-over car owners' asset to someone / some companies.........
Battery Swap is too EXPENSIVE and it LIMITS how many cars can be PRODUCED. which is why TESLA Abandoned battery swap technology for SUPERCHARGING. this is why TESLA can make over 600,000 cars per year and NIO only 10,000 cars per year. NIO House is also TOO EXPENSIVE and IF they want to GROW will have to KILL NIO House and battery swap.
@@pcmdanny2 NIO give you the option to buy their cars much cheaper without the battery. You then lease the battery for $150/mth and swap or charge if you like. The business model is extremely popular as all current limitations to EV travel are bypassed.
@@smackcheeks - NIO is SMALL potatoes , NORWAY still perfers Compact HOT HATCH , compared to what NIO is offering. and by Q4 2021 TESLA Berlin should be OPERATIONAL and Producing the ADVANCED model Y , which will OUTSELL NIO .
let's not talk about which is better, just by the Ev charging station alone are all over the country and only take between 30-45mins to full charge with supercharger. There are ONLY 45 Hydrogen station IN California, that mean you had a limited zone of you can go. and there always a line at the station waiting to fill up and some people said it can went out of Hydrogen from the station then you've to wait for reload.
Pretty obvious to me which technology is and will be the winner. I am not saying hydrogen fuel cell is just smoke and mirrors, such as their usefulness in some cities where charging an EV is next to impossible, but certainly hydrogen cars will only take up a small fraction of the zero-emission vehicle market.
Does the efficiency of electrolysis of water really matter if a renewable source of energy such as solar is being used to power it? The convenience and speed of refueling over time needed to recharge a battery would suggest that Hydrogen should be hands down favorite. Battery power appears to have numerous other negatives to address with safe disposal at end of battery life.
Hydrogen is the way to go. To refill an hydrogen car today takes less than 4 minutes now and it’s easier to produce with green energy today in 2022. Hydrogen will become cheaper and cheaper to produce in the near future.
EV’s are no alternative to petrol or diesel. 1 Kg of petrol can lift 1 ton 5000 meters straight up but, 1 Kg of Li-ion can lift 1 ton only 300 meters… no comparison
Another video sponsored by the oil and gas industry. They are desperate to get traction for hydrogen production. The reason is they know that green hydrogen (hydrogen created from water by electrolysis) will be unable to keep up with demand and therefore they be able to reform hydrogen from fossil fuels and thereby continue to trash the environment for profit and bonuses.
@ Phil V If current use is your criteria - then give up now because because gas has a million fill-up points around the US alone. Perhaps you should think about whether gas stations can be repurposed as hydrogen fuel stations as tech improves and keep all those millions of businesses operating.
@@ln5493 my point is the world has already choosen : we are installing 10 000 times more plugs than H2 stations, period. And all these old gas stations will simply diseapear, the surving ones will be repurposed... as battery quickchargers stations. I know, many public and sponsorized initiatives join their forces to install those 1 million$ h2 stations. It won't change the facts : the near future is for li-ion and 150 to 350 kW chargers, the next level is the li-solid or li-sulfur, with 450 to 1MW charge and 800-1000 kms autonomy. The H2 momentum is and will, never comes. The more battery is progressing, the less hydrogen is interesting. It's a kind of plasma TV announced in a world already using Oled and waiting for Microled. An already lost battle.
@@philv3941 realistically only homeless people, or those on extremely long holidays will need dedicated plug in power stations, as it’ll be more likely done at your home over night, like your phone
@@ln5493 " Perhaps you should think about whether gas stations can be repurposed as hydrogen fuel stations as tech improves and keep all those millions of businesses operating." Live by the sword, die by the sword.
@@ln5493 If you really want to use the "number of fill up points" criteria, How many electrical sockets are there accessible by vehicles on the planet? Slightly more than "a million"? Sorry, you lose
What an incredibly biased video, there is no mention of the cost of electric motors and the strain it puts on copper supplies, the use of lithium which you cannot recycle, the cost of replacement Batteries etc. etc., potentially hydrogen fuelled ICE is the way to go it doesn't put inflationary strains on rare resources in the same way as either lithium battery or hydrogen fuel cell powered cars do. If all vehicles Go fully electric the strain on a countries national power grid is going to accelerate faster than the infrastructure can cope. We are already seeing seasonal power generation shortages issues in places as diverse as California and Ontario. The other point to consider here is that even though Hydrogen powered vehicles have been around since the early 1800's modern hydrogen powered vehicles are in their infancy, look at the progress lord Bamford of JCB has made with his hydrogen powered ICE vehicles and Toyota are also working on hydrogen Powered ICE Vehicles its the way forward for sure. The biggest problem we have is blinkered politicians and biased videos such as yours influencing the market.
@@GR8TDUCK no lol. Any thermofluids engineer, physisist and chemist will tell you otherwise. You are just wrong. HFC have higher power densities, are more environmental friendly and have higher efficiencies. Keep in mind HFC havent even had a quarter the funds BEVs have had. Imagine once we put more capital into HFCS
@@GR8TDUCK what a dumb logic. Im not saying i am smarter. Im saying that HFC is a new tech that will replace batteries. Many big corps are working on hfc because of the superior qualities. It could eventually replace plane engines or be used as supplemwntal power source
Toyota working on FCV since 1992, newer Hydrogen production cars since 2013 and now mainly Toyota, Hyundai, and Honda in the mix after others abandoned those efforts. Interestingly only Hyundai has both electric and hydrogen actually for sale. I would imagine the first 5 year sales of the Nexo compared with electric Ioniq as well as (electric) Kona will be very telling along with profit margins of each since they both started the same year. Hyundai Nexo secures 69% global FCV market share right now. Since both started sales same year its a fair comparison... It may fully come down to economics. Nexo sales worldwide 2018 ( 727 cars) 2019 (4,800 ) 2020 (6,500) Hyundai Kona (Electric) 2018 (22,787) 2019 (48,451) 2020 (85,313)
Ok, if you are going to include the production process of hydrogen, you need also to include the production process of the Lithium Ion battery. If you did that, you would not have the same percentages for efficiency. Further considerations have to be the recycling costs. All-in-all, batteries are not the silver bullet most people believe them to be.
Please tell me why in your mind Hydrogen (a fuel that you fill an FCEV with to go the distance) is the equivalent to a Lithium Ion battery ( an electrochemical storage and conversion unit that is installed in a BEV)?
@@jonathanfields4ever but way less environmentally damaging. True in the video the "BIG" play is on reforming natural gas, but there is absolutely zero mention of the mining of the raw materials for battery production, there is zero mention of the fire risk with battery failure and then what about the recycling? on top of all that you have the transportation of all the materials to get them manufactured! Hydrogen has a way higher energy density that a battery, and the pollution from the raw material is zero. Even if, and it is a huge if, a hydrogen tank were to be damaged such that the hydrogen leaked out, it would not spontaneously explode, and would not produce lethal gases, unlike a battery when it burns. The obsession with battery power is almost as insane as the obsession with the internal combustion engine!
They can easily produce those cars. It's not a complicated thing. They've been around for a while. The problem is filling stations. The easiest way is onsite production thru water electrolysis. That requires expensive retrofitting current gas stations.
And if everyone switch to plug in the same except electric companies and btw in America we don't have near the grid to even support 10% having ev's hell some parts of the country use rolling brownouts still due to lack of electricity
@@wuhanlabtech3580 EV charging will primarily occur off peak demand periods and electricity will be priced to encourage that. The expansion of solar and decentralized storage throughout the grid also reduces peak load problems.
You said it. And that is exactly why the big oil companies are *desperate* for hydrogen to succeed. They know full well that in 10 to 15 years time the arse will have dropped out of their once precious oil market, and they need to find a replacement. Preferably one they can control the price and availability of.......
recently Toyota ran a corolla in the 24hrs of lemans with the 1.6l turbo engine from the yaris GR. What was so special about it? The engine was converted to be a hydrogen burning combustion engine. The idea was to experiment with the possibility of being able to convert existing gasoline cars into hydrogen driven cars. This would be a cheaper alternative to fase out traditional combustion engines than flat-out replacing them.
Toyota isn't the first one with that idea, BMW and Mazda already experimented with that before and all, including Toyota now, ran into the issue that it is not easy to switch a fossil fuel ICE to Hydrogen and even with extensive modifications it has very poor fuel economy with the Hydrogen. I give them kudos for being able to complete the race when not too long ago they blew engines only after about 5 minutes of run time but the race also shows the issues in that it needed lots of refueling stops (about every 10 laps) even though it had an approx. 180 liter volume tank that took up the whole rear section of the vehicle and that the refueling station for just this one vehicle was huge with two trailers for the Hydrogen and a class B/7 truck for the filling equipment that needed to be away from the normal pit stops due to size and safety. With that I think you can pretty much forget that it would be a cheaper alternative to facing out traditional ICE.
The overall comparison between the EV car and the Hydrogen/fuel cells is the advantage of the EV in efficiency of transformation and use of the energy besides being the EV being practical in use. There is no competition between the two, imo. The choice of EV is conclusive.
@@lions208436 Nice use of "Occam's razor". Don't mention ALL the other downsides of hydrogen - hazardous material, expense, invisible fire, complexity (ha-ha, all the things that were held against batteries at one stage or another....)
but you can not use it too often, check Tesla website, Tesla advise only use the super charge once in a while, becaseu it stress out the battery and shorten the Life of battery
@@rogerstarkey5390 so? what kind of argument is that? 🤦♂️ petrol heads had the same argument 10-15 years ago regarding electric cars... everything depends on popularity, supply/demand and if there'll be greater need for hydrogen filling stations guess what -->> they'll appear 🤷♂️ if you have 2 hydrogen cars per 100.000 it's not viable yet it needs some support (similar to support received by electric vehicles)... so time will tell, eventually 😉
Won't that depend on the size of the hydrogen tank, and the capacity of the EV's battery? A general comment like that is meaningless unless you specify more detail.
If the Aptera gets off the ground this time. It’s car will change everything. Why im skeptical as us car companies will treat it like Tucker of the 50s.
@@jimbob1096 I do not know how it is around the world, but in Denmark a lot of leaders are put up in the cities so people in apartments can drive an electric car also a number of workplaces have charging stations but can use (it is not free but not expensive than at home)
Toyota tried it and it was a flop. No one who owns an EV would ever bother to go back to driving to fueling stations. No one who will own an EV would ever bother to go back to driving to fueling stations.
A Hydrogen leak can result in a significant fire which is INVISIBLE! Drivers and passengers may not realize that they need to evacuate their vehicle until it is too late. The efficiency calculation presented here (80% for electric cars) is faulty since it does not take into consideration the ineffeciency of delivering and generating the electricity to the charging kiosk. Creating the electricity also pollutes.
It all depends on what the car manufacturers are willing to invest in and the infrastructure country's want to put in place for those cars, personally I prefer something I can charge at home.
Still takes too long at the moment to charge while away from home, Hydrogen would take less than 5 minutes for a 400 mile range and not everyone is as lucky as you in having somewhere to charge overnight, where I live in England at least half of homes are terraced houses or apartment's where there is nowhere to charge up your car. I personally think in 30 years people will look back at electric cars and say did they really think they were the future.
Exactly. Germany explicitly stated for example that the EV concept would not fit in their society. Taken how accurate they are in terms of societal latency, nobody would have the time to wait for their car to charge for hours as every second is precious. They have pushed the hydrogen technology further than any other country in Europe.
@@johndoe1909 Things move on electric cars once had a range of 75 miles now look. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Hydrogen as a source of propulsion, man seems to be pretty ingenious, great strides in technology seem to be all around us I wouldn't bet against it that's for sure.
Just wondering if someone could develop a more efficient electrolysis system? Then use wind or solar to create hydrogen for the vehicles. Then the hydrogen vehicles would not even need to plug into the grid like ev vehicles. Thus eliminating the natural gas dependence and adding load to the grid.
Good luck on building a couple billion lithium car batteries without impacting the environment. The truth, it isn’t going to happen. Nobody wants to talk about the huge environmental problems related to manufacturing and mining rare earth minerals on a global scale if most vehicles and homes go total electric power. About time to discuss safe nuclear power.
Hopefully in the future we will have worked out the problems of energy. Obviously there are problems with electric and hydrogen. One problem is energy storage from what I've read. Lithium, wind and solar, hydrogen for now will not replace gas powered vehicles. Will be interesting to see how it goes in the future. Enjoyed your video.
That may be, but electric vehicles are heavily subsidized by the government, ie, basically the people are paying for it. Therefore, the electric vehicles are being forced upon us so governments can easily control the population at large; they just need to turn off the electric grid.
@@josephward6422 they won't need to the price of electricity is just about to go through the roof... Imagine putting all your eggs in the one basket.. The electric companies will have a monopoly..
@@Beatles4Sale. Maybe the number one selling car, but it's only one company and one car. Gas powered cars are still being produce by the other vehicle makers which collectively outnumber electric vehicles. Of course they are pretty much all getting into the action of EV's. One drawback for now at least is the batteries end of life. Buying a used EV could be cost prohibitive if the battery will need replacing soon. It would solve the problem if the batteries can be made smaller and more efficient and longer lasting. There are those working on that among other problems. A lot of people are going to stick to what they're used to. Gas powered vehicles. Which come with their own set of drawbacks. It's just the drawbacks people are used to.
@@danielhanawalt4998 I totally agree with you about Tesla. They really only have two models. The other two are low selling premium vehicles. As far as batteries go, I respectfully disagree. While some batteries have had issues, especially from LG Chem, most can last several hundred thousand miles. The new Tesla Semi is guaranteed for one million miles. Also the batteries are 90-95 percent recyclable. Just one example is a company called Redwood Materials. You can do a search if interested. Links sometimes get taken down. I do agree it’s very early days. There is a lot of work to be done. There are so many companies working on battery technology it’s crazy. The Chinese have a sodium ion battery car coming out, they say, later this year. It’s for low powered vehicles. I do think that electric vehicles are not the only solution. But we are on the S curve for electric car sales…even in the USA.
Creating electricity is easy, storing it is the fly in the ointment. Lithium batteries are a long way from perfect, recycling them is a major issue we have yet to deal with. Solar and wind energy is useless unless it can be stored for when and where it is needed, using large lithium batteries for storage is extremely expensive and environmentally harmful. Unless there is a quantum leap in battery technology hydrogen is the way to go even with the losses in conversion.
VW settled to pay over a billion to install hydrogen stations across the US. Hydrogen is the future as well. Once they finish the renewable method(currently in progress) using biomass instead of methane it will have less carbon footprint than EVs. On top it gets more range than EVs do and refuel much quicker. It has a reading of 60-70mpg which is great. It's current hindrance are lack of stations which is steadily growing with a few free refueling travel stations. The video imo was a bit too biased (other ev brand that are not Tesla have much lower efficiency ratings). I believe both are great options.
i did use the K with distilled water that regenerates by separating the H and the O2. the H goes to the air mass which enters the fuel injection/carb. the exhaust end is the H2O. i used it on my 1995 Buick Park Avenue; took it to the smog station in 2010. the printout shows NOX 0-.05. too bad the DMV would not allow this smog result.
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You clearly laid out the cons of hydrogen, but you didn‘t for batteries. Not a good comparison.
Pónganlo en español por favor
Rocco Schult, I agree with you. Further I say that this video is clearly biased towards electric powered cars and so pretty worthless in my opinion!
@@Peter4253 Converting existing combustion engines from fossil fuels to operate on hydrogen makes more sense to me. Like converting to propane but cleaner.
there are no advantages of hydrogen, unless you want most efficient rocket engine in space. In that case, you need either hydrogen or photons as reaction mass
Can you refuel your hydrogen car at home?
What’s going to happen to all these lithium batteries when they are done? Hydrogen has an infinite supply where lithium will eventually be mined out.
When not useable in a car because of the huge demand of power they probably go into houses solar setup for another 15 to 20 years.
@@migsvensurfing6310 And then?
The lithium will destroy our waterways.
@@It-che-Pu-whole Prove it.
@@It-che-Pu-whole Where did you hear this?
The main point is environmental weight. What do you want, a litium battery that hits the landfill when dead or water exhaust from hydrogen. Easy answer.
let me see a BEV that has no exhaust or a fuel cell system that hits the landfill when it's dead, yes easy
Batteries can be recycled..
No, electric is not better than hydrogen.
You skipped all together the recycling/disposal of electric car batteries (which by the way it's a huge environmental problem that everyone chooses to overlook because companies like Tesla make mountains of money from producing and selling batteries).
Why don't you do a real comparison between the actual costs and challenges of recycle/dispose of the electric battery based cars vs the hydrogen fuel cell cars? That would show the real cost!
I wonder: How long are fuel cells expected to last and how do you dispose of those?
Probably not that much different at this point, but you make a good point, we should also be thinking about other issues not discussed in this video.
Ev batteries will be recycled so they can be used for home electricity storage. You really need to Google can Ev batteries be recycled and educate yourself.
Totally agree on your perspective of the huge negative environmental impact generated by electric car batteries regarding future buildup and disposal which was neglectly pointed out. Think hydrogen cars would be the future if appropriate effort for research/funding on a possible extraction/cheaper/safe/clean method of oxygen and storing it. If you might be aware of, have you heard of Deuterium{H3O}, water high in hydrogen located somewhere in the Phil.Deep waters/unlimited/regularly flowing wonder of nature. As what I understand from the review of some Experts, Deterium once extrated doesn't need further high processing to store oxygen/much cheaper method.. Hope this can be further exploited.
Firstly a hydrogen car can be combustion driven you should qualify what type, you are talking about hydrogen cell. Secondly hydrogen cell is an electric car because it's driven by electric motors.
Hydrogen combustion engine car would be half as efficient as a fuel cell electric car.
@@stuarthirsch
And the fuel cell car is less that half the efficiency of a BEV.
Not so good.
@@stuarthirsch Less
@@stuarthirsch but ice engines are more fun to drive. If you drive an automatic then i may aswell not continue this conversation because a non car guy wont get it. Its good that toyota is making a hydrogen ice car because at least there will be something fun to drive
@@patrykrog8121 You obviously haven’t driven a Tesla or Mustang Mach-E. Maybe you drove compliance EVs like the trash Nissan LEAF, but that does not count. Btw, there’s a reason why manual cars are a rarity. Gas cars will become the same, but you’ll still be able to drive them. It’ll be financially idiotic if you do though, looking about 10 years into the future.
What has been completely overlooked is the energy used in mining and converting the resources to make batteries etc. Etc! Hydrogen will run in modified Internal combustion engines, without producing NOX! Look to see what JCB have done with Hydrogen in their own Newly developed Hydrogen engines! Also, the process to convert water to Hydrogen is becoming much more efficient over time. I will place my bets on hydrogen! My hat is off for David Colins who has already come up with a fantastic resolution to using the energy wasted at Nuclear plants to make hydrogen overnight when the plant is virtually unused! Thank you David for such a brilliant suggestion! Just found out that Ammonia NH3 is the new fuel! Especially if we can use the wasted energy from Nuclear power.
Yes. I think as technology improves there will be a lot more ways we can use these spent fuels. I read another article saying that it’s possible to have a battery that last like 40 years
Stanley Meyers & Hydrogen on demand, nothing needs to be stored apart from water in water form.
Not to mention solid state hydrogen as well. Not to mention dealing with battery desegregation.
This video was biased heavily towards electric.
However, currently there are 36 million vehicles on the roads daily in the UK, that means we would need 50 million chargers by 2030 and we are no where near that target.
However, because successive governments have not invested in our power generation, but instead out sourced to France and China, neither of which, you could claim to be our friends or allies, they just need to drag the length of time out in building further power stations, and as our population continues to expand through immigration, divorce (requiring 2 homes instead of 1) births, and MPs who can't keep it in their trousers and end up with 7 kids, and eventually this country will grind to a halt, due to power cuts caused by to high a demand.
Old English saying, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" true then, true now, true in the future !
@@edwardr7577 100% can see this happening, small country we are getting mad traffic now is unreal now. Juicy £1.61 for diesel in some places
ELECTRIC CARS, Are a stop gap solution. Once more development into hydrogen is done it will surpass all electric.
Seems like it man, and that's good
That is one of the most accurate comments I have read on the subject.
Problem with Hydrogen fuel cells is that they’ll make a lot of rich and powerful people lose a lot of money
Hyundai may not agree with you. In Britain during the final quarter of 2019 - so pre pandemic - Hyundai sold just *one* single example of their Nexo hydrogen powered SUV. The UK just is not interested in Hydrogen for cars. Nobody wants it here.
@@Brian-om2hh There's virtually no hydrogen infrastructure for refuleing cars in the UK, so why would you buy one in the UK?
Germany and Japan are investing heavily in a hydrogen infrastructure.
Germany plans to have 60,000 hydrogen cars on the road in the next 3 years.
As usual the UK car industry will be left behind, however some heating boiler manufacturers in the UK are producing hydrogen ready boilers (gas boilers) and I understand that about a 20% hydrogen blend will be trialled soon, so hydrogen is on the way.
We need to study models of how many ev fueling stations we would actually need as multiples of current gas station plus queuing theory assumptions. If everyone is electric and few have home plugins how many do we need so that max wait time is not hours? This is a much bigger issue than presented here.
Do the research. Depending on your country, this is mostly all taken care of by the free market.
Why few have home plug ins. A simple 50 amp 220 plug is all one needs which is like a typical RV outlet or Welding outlet etc. 90% of people or more drive less the 100 miles a day so once you have a plug installed at your home you pretty much never need to fuel up while out and about. If you travel it can take some planning or else you can just use your worthless ICE vehicle if you prefer.
Well just think of how many power plants would have to be built if every car was electric. There isn't enough of them right now.
@@williamhoward2685 That's nonsense, absolute nonsense, you don't know what your talking about. Do some research!
@@jstar1000 what makes you think its nonsense? I have installed climate control chambers so they could test the technology under extreme conditions. Perhaps you should do some research. They a loo ready have a hydrogen burning car on the road for as few years now. 20 plus.
Full of generalisations and inaccuracies.
Regen braking converts rotational motion, not heat, to electricity
No, is inertia. There is no force in the ''rotation motion'' except the inertia it has. You may talk about centrifugal force but obvious you don't understand the phenomenon.
Actually, it's the kinetic energy of the moving vehicle that is converted back to electricity to recharge the battery. Inertia is an object's resistance to being moved.
Yes it's recovering the kinetic energy, but the kinetic energy is turning the wheels I.e. creating rotational motion, the wheels turn the motor, and it's the rotational movement of the motor running backwards and acting as a generator that provides the braking force and generates the electricity.
How lithion ion batteries are produced? You never revealed or told anything about that.
Amazing how few videos cover that little bit of info.
Let's try
Lithium batteries are produced, with some pollution.... ONCE.
The Drive / fuel conversion system of a Fossil car is produced with a similar amount of pollution....ONCE (mining, transport, smelting of metals, machining, etc.... Including rare earth elements!)
THEN the fossil car requires a continuous supply of fossil fuel, which is polluting during its "mining" ...(there's the word you were looking for!)... It's transport, refinement (using COBALT btw!) secondary transport to point of use, AND when burnt in the engine.
How's that for revelation?
Oh... I forgot.
Once the battery constituents are in "the system" they will be recovered at the end of life of the original cell, then used AGAIN in a new cell.
Try that with fossil fuel?
Magic
Close your eyes
@@mandrc5562 That's not true at all, it's all readily available info. You can't hide stuff like that about one of the fastest growing industries in a capitalist world.
@@rogerstarkey5390 actually there are videos that show how they are made. Also show how with your “ ONCE” they are dirty than has. And as always as with all you EV lovers , you left out it’s powered by Coal 80% of all our electric ⚡️ is powered by dirty dirty dirty coal! You also forgot to add that the grid couldn’t handle even 20% of our cars converted to electric ⚡️ let alone all of them! Oh lastly that the material to make your batteries 🔋 are finite & a - 100% switch from fossils would deplete them in 15 years. Sad 😢 and yes I’ve heard about them recycling the batteries 🔋 ah yes now they’re way dirtier than fuel ⛽️. Go hydrogen lol 😝
I’ll buy a H2 vehicle, when I can pour home tap-water in it, and it will convert the tap-water to H2 (within the vehicle). Otherwise, until then, I’ll stick with a BEV, that allows me to charge it at home ;-)
Wait, but if you want, you can take the H2O you make and your car can fuel you ;-).
Well that ain’t possible any time soon, you need energy to do that, can’t make a perpetual motion machine as such, but you could have something that makes hydrogen at home so you still get the ‘charge at home’ concept.
Hydrohen generator's have been around for a while. But the way they are doing it you can't do at home. People have ran gas engines with hydrogen generators mounted in the back of their truck. That uses distilled water.
@@Gillettesgarage You can’t do at home ‘yet’
Integrating a Reversible fuel cell in car might be helpful but ain't came out yet
Electronic cars, no way!! To expensive to buy, very expensive to fix. Many long trip problems. Long wait times to get to where your going. And hopefully the battery never go's bad because, it will cost you more than your depreciation car. Just nothing but problems. Take it from a X tesla owners. I say X because the problems they incountered was dreadful and very expensive to own. Back to a sure thing the old reliable gas engine ⛽. Maintenance, pull in the station and go, (DONE). SEE YOU LATER..!!
Toyota has hydrogen cars…they are the real deal….real clean energy….not like EVs running on coal😅
I wonder the why government can’t generate the electricity by using hydrogen for ev cars and all usues. We can get the electricity in home but can’t get hydrogen.
Apparently you didn't watch the video.
Both Battery Technology and Hydrogen should be used according to their merits and what with the constantly improving of both technologies the efficiency balance between them altered to get the best out of both.
This won’t happen in the heavily subsidized electric car market by the globalist government. If it was a free market the hydrogen car either electric or combustion engine would be the better way. Sadly, the CCP is in charge of the new USSACCP. We are not being allowed, via legislation, to mine the materials needed to make the batteries for the electric cars, and RPC/CCP is cornering the market on the materials to make the batteries. So with this stated, the hydrogen car is ☠️; unless it can survive the current USSACCP administration. THE USA IS BEING MADE TO BOW TO THE CCP BY THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION! Therefore, the one world order is on the fast track.
Hydrogen sounds more like something for a bus or a truck.
@@KaosNova2 it is! in fact the trucks and the airplains are far better going with hydrogen because of the wait and the time. city cars can be easly charged in 30 min and the times will go down
Pretty sure there is no heat capture involved in electric cars capturing energy during braking. They reverse the polarity of the motor, turning into a generator that turns from the cars momentum and produces electricity to charge the battery.
So they reverse the polarity on an AC 3 phase electric motor, do they? ;-)
@@phillipzx3754
How they do it is for them to consider.
THAT they do it is fact..... And demonstrated frequently.
@@rogerstarkey5390 What Phillip was pointing out is that it's not POLARITY related, it's just how the inverter works.
rectifier
Have you not seen a formula 1 car, they have the same technology to charge the overtaking boost
Notice how he talks a lot about how harmful the production of hydrogen is for the environment, but avoids telling us just how harmful the creation of lithium batteries is on the environment- the amount of water used in the process is insane.
Not to mention child labour lithium mining
hmmm why would hydrogen ( a fuel that you have to refill the tank on the vehicle) production be compared to the production of batteries (a electrochemical storage unit that you purchase the vehicle with)? Wouldn't a BEV battery need to be compared to the fuel cell system in a FCEV and was the latter production /environmental impact of the latter detailed in this presentation?
@@yo-no9879 What child labor lithium mining? details please
@@milanswoboda5457 Yeah, I haven't heard of any child labor for mining lithium either.
Child labor is an issue for mining cobalt for batteries of all types including EV's in the DRC (Democratic Republic of the Congo) Africa.
@@electrified3407 Yep that's the correct element related to the child labor issue but also there how much of it is hype vs. reality? How much percentage of this artisanal cobalt child labor mining is in the cobalt used for battery manufacture? I doubt anyone really knows and that holds also true for cobalt used in refineries as catalyst for fuel desulphurization, tools used in machining for a very wide range of manufacturing processes which include items we use in our every day life, ...etc.
Hydrogen production at sea (either using tidal forces, wave, solar or wind power) could be used to produce and store hydrogen gas that could be stored in liquid form in sea-bed containers.
Using this approach offshore sites could be visited by tankers that would just collect the stored hydrogen - to me this might be the most efficient and cleanest method to produce the fuel.
Yes but the CEO of the worlds largest wind turbine producer in the world thinks that hydrogen is not the way to go and refuses to spend any of the billions they make on it. BIG mistake.
@@finnstadel And who is the CEO of the largest wind turbine? Anything to do with China?
@@josephward6422 He he that's an interesting thought ;-)
I think Vestas is the biggest wind turbine manufacturer..
Just use that renewable energy to charge evs. Skip the hydrogen.
Hydrogen cars are more suited for densely populated urban areas, were there are not enough private parking areas to charge during night time. Autonomous vehicles may solve this charging problem in the future, but right now hydrogen cars are more user friendly because they don't need night charging. Also the grid and power generation must be upgraded to take care of many more EVs. There are infrastructure issues for both types of cars.
What utter nonsense , the grid expends with demand , it has been expanding ever since Edison , the rage of ev adoption isn’t even making a dent
“Hydrogen is inefficient because it doesn’t occur naturally”, but we all can get batteries naturally, there are plants with battery, He doesn’t research anything he just see other RUclips videos and make new animation thing.
You need to understand the basic theory.
Don't compare hydrogen with "batteries"
Compare it with electricity.
Also since when is generating electricity a natural occurring event. He also never talked about the loses during the electrical generation. I guess he never studied up on that. Nice picture of a wind turbine, it kind of makes people think or believe that wind is a major source of generation. Get your facts straight.
@@robmclaren664 WTF are you talking about?! Hydrogen ALSO need electricity generation and it need 3 times MORE electricity to cover same distance compared to electric cars! You need electricity to to water electrolysis to get hydrogen. BOTH hydrogen and electric vehicle need electricity generation!! The only difference is that hydrogen need 3 times more electricity per mile.
@@martindolinsek7589 agreed. but the kWh/mile required to drive a BEV is MUCH higher than that of a FCEV due to the sheer weight - again, both have their places - daily commutes for people that do 20-50 mile round trips - BEVs are probably a better choice.
Going on a roadtrip to that beach 200 miles away on a summer holiday? With a BEV you'd be waiting in line at a station for 4 hours before waiting another 15-45 minutes to charge your car.
Oh, and what about the electrical infrastructure to account for such high current requirements once BEVs get more and more utilised? It's expensive either way - having all your eggs in one basket is no way to look at it!
@@AritraDalal No, not true. BEV use WAYY LESS kWh/mile compared to FCEV! If you count the energy what is in the tank then FCEV uses 1 kg of hydrogen per 100 km, which is 33 kWh per 100 km. BEV only use around 18 kWh per 100 km. But to produce that 1 kg of hydrogen (=33 kWh) you need 55 kWh! So you need 3 times more energy PER MILE for FCEV. Or almost 2 times MORE energy for FCEV if you exclude production. In reality BEV are LIGHTER than FCEV! In reality Tesla model 3 long range weights 1829 kg and have an EPA range 353 miles, but hydrogen fuel cell vehicle (FCEV) Toyota Mirai weight 1,848 kg and have only 312 miles. So FCEV is heavier that BEV for the same range in reality. There is no lines to charge up (4 hours, are you mad?!). To charge a Tesla for 300 km you need only 15 minutes of DC fast charging. 99 % of charging is done at home overnight at no extra time spend just plug the cable fot 5 seconds and you are done=current requirenment for that is very low. To install public fast chargers it cost 200 LESS compared to hydrogen station! Hydrogen station cost 2 milion dollars to install, and electric fast charger only 10k.
costs 10 cents or less to fill batteries with power. costs over $100.00 to fill hydrogen. not happening.
That is the similar reason people used to give 10 years ago for EV that they do not have infrastructure so they will not succeed. The cost of hydrogen is high mainly due to low demand
@@vandita3695 the high cost will come with transportation and storage of the Hydrogen safely which is more volatile than petrol.
Agreed, we have the electric grid, we don't have a hydrogen grid. Hydrogen is difficult and much more expensive, difficult, and dangerous to transport and store.
@@Peter-vn8ue But there is a potential that we can make hydrogen on spot, so we don't need transportation
And that is the issue. Hydrogen is never going to be an inexpensive option. Nor will there be the option to produce your own at home, in the same way you can with solar.
Really, I think not, how many hydrogen powered cars do you see on the road today compared to how many electirc cars are on the road and coming in the next few years.
In the longer run, Hydrogen model is way better IMHO. The lithium batteries have a very short shelf life in terms of efficiency and storage capacity. Replacing them every 3 to 4 years is way worse than setting up all solar grid at a remote place to separate hydrogen and oxygen.
Why would you replace them every 3 to 4 years when they have an 8 year warranty? And note that's a *warranty* not the lifespan, which is often 10+ years, after which the pack can be refurbished at a fraction of the cost of a total replacement. Lithium batteries used in home energy system often carry a 10 year warranty, and usually last 15 to 20 years.
Most things are correct but using Watt as a measure of energy is wrong. Energy is measured in Jules or Watt-hours.
😑
in my country we use watt and kilowatt to measure our electric bills..I used to study about how to use jules in my school but seems that I cant remember at all to use it😂
Joules!
@@hikmahuddinhasbullah3928 *kilowatt-hours
@@hikmahuddinhasbullah3928 kw-hrs
So there is a detailed run through of how hydrogen is "farmed" and all of the steps go towards how efficient or lack there of it is but not one mention of the mining "farming" steps for creating lithium batteries!?!? And therefore no consideration for energy loss and pollution from electric cars? Not even a in-depth walkthrough of battery end of life.... Do better!!!
Agree. However resource mining for batteries happen once and lasts the lifetime of the battery which is generally 300,000 miles. Hydrogen needs to be created for every refuel creating much more waste over the lifetime of the vehicle.
They have found the moon is covered in the stuff that is why most of the big countries including America want to be there as soon as possible 2024 is said to be the first steps back on the moon. The Russians have been working on it for years and now have a system for collecting it and getting it back at a reasonable cost. The moon has a better supply of rare earth elements easily obtained without earth environmental damage. Now you know why Elon is manufacturing reusable Heavy-lift Starships every three days, incredible but the wealth to the world is also incredible.
Nobody really cares about environmental friendliness.
so where is the mention of the mining "farming" steps for creating fuel cell systems with the consideration for energy loss and pollution from fuel cell ELECTRIC CARS? time marker please
@@jasonrassett8487 Curious where you get a battery pack lasting 300,000 miles? At what efficiency or capacity is a battery after 300,000 miles? 40% with a range of 20 miles?
Is energy efficiency less of a problem if we use wasted renewable energy, for example wind mills not needed at night ?
That's what most EVs will charge from. Fast charging is an expensive fad.
It's not much less of a problem because there will never be enough "wasted" renewable electricity to produce enough hydrogen for the consumer vehicle market, unless the customer base for hydrogen cars remains very small.
You're talking MUCH too fast for the average human mind to assimilate.
SLOW DOWN .... son.
hydrogen cars are very old stuff, but its still much more expensive to manufacture and less effective in terms of energy usage than e-cars. Never will be a thing ... or what I can imagine is combine them as hybrid cars, but not standalones
For all you people saying that you can charge a car in your home,remember not everyone has their own compound let alone a garage, many people live in overcrowded towns parking their cars on the street,just because you have a garage that is not the case for everyone things on the ground are pretty much different they are not as you think they might seem,what is wrong with you people seriously speaking🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
you clearly have not seen the company NIO .. Nio is the answer ,
What if every apartment got it's own garage??? Like the elevators they made in Japan especially for cars parking???
@@mhm3437 c’mon , you clearly haven’t thought this through .....maybe on new builds yes , but not on existing apartment blocks ... the nio battery swap stations are the answer .
Regardless of both, you still have to drill for oil ( plastics, rubber ) and drill/mine for steel, mercury, copper, etc.
Meaning recycled materials matter immensely.
@@crhu319 you could use recycled material. However, you'd still need to mine and drill. One recycled pepsi can doesn't produce one new can
That leaves walking as your only option
@@americanoutreach7496 Pepsi cans, being aluminium, are one of the most recycled products on the planet.
Ever heard of rubber trees?
Hydrogen is best for long haul trucking. It has a number of advantages over EV for that market. But EV is better for family cars.
WRONG , a TESLA Semi with 4680 can go 1000 km or 625 + miles on a Charge , and can FULLY CHARGE durrng a mandatory SLEEP PERIOD . and can Supplement with DC FAST charging along the way.
Hydrogen fuel celled cars ARE EV's, you twit! The fuel cell generates electricity which powers the car.
@@phillipzx3754 - H2 fuel Hydrogen is LARGLY produced with FOSSIL FUELS , not RENEWABLES.
Renewable Energy is the CHEAPEST on EARTH.
in the NEXT DECADE - SWB , Solar, Wind Battery will OVERTAKE ALL Conventional forms of Energy Production.
Hydrogen will become a STRANDED ACCET .
@@markplott4820 What's your point? What part of "fuel cells generate electricity" did you not understand?
@@phillipzx3754 - its NOT a good solution, H2 fuel uses lots of DIRTY fuel to Create Hydrogen , Solar , Wind , Battery is the CHEPEST energy on EARTH and has ZERO emissions.
Hydrogen is a VERY inefficient PROCESS and lots of Energy WASTED in creation of H2 fuel.
you also have to factor in TRANSPORT and STORAGE of the fuel .
which also, WASTES energy because there are so FEW Hydrogen trucks that can Transport H2 fuel to Stations.
and for H2 vehicles more Energy gets WASTED in OPERATION of the Vehicles , Hydrogen Vehicles are only 30% Efficient compared to 90% in a TESLA electric vehicle.
you are Dragging arround batteries as well as FUEL, Tank, and FCV stack.
The absolute issue is which can travel faster on a 1500 mile trip.. Electric recharge or Hydrogen.. Vehicles that only go 30 miles before refuel are OK as long as they can be refueled/charges quickly. Dont actually see electric planes in the near future..
If you don't see electric planes in the near future, you may need to look a little harder. Here in the UK there are electric aircraft already being trialled....
Recently upgraded my Lexus suv to a gas powered Mercedes at a cost of $8000.the Lexus averaged 17/18 mpg in mostly city driving on regular gas. The Mercedes is averaging18/31mpg in city/hwy driving on mid grade fuel. The Lexus had150000miles only it and we drove it for over 10 years. $0 paymemts.
We paid the Mercedes off as well. I priced the Tesla model out at $47000. The Nissan was found to be too small I’m 6”5” and felt the Leaf to be too small as the only car. I don’t expect to see myself getting more than 10 years of use out of it, then pass it on to my granddaughters who should get another decade of use. While I like Tesla’s model 3, I wouldn’t get the use out of it.the Mercedes can get 500 miles per tank of gas, which I estimate will be available for the next 20 years. It will take that long to convert all the personal cars to electric. I have driven several of my cars more than 200,000 miles each. EV Range is woefully inadequate for long distance driving,adding hours of time just to refuel. I used to travel from Florida north to east end of Long Island. We used the Auto Train to ship the car with us rather than fight the traffic. Decent EVs are still too expensive for us peons.
Electric cars have gone through ages of development, it is now fair to give Hydro the same opportunity and afterwards decide.
Hmmm a fuel cell car is also an electric car and there had been Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles ( e.g. GM Electrovan ) long before Lithium Ion batteries made it into an EV
@@milanswoboda5457
They first tried to make an EV in 1919 so yeah everything needs time
@@omaralkayal7598 , you way off with your history dude, Porsche was making electric cars back in 1898. Check it out it was the model P1 😀
dude...they have been trying Hydro since I was a kid (57 now) its the infrastructure that is the issue but now, in 2021....check out Norway and Germany: Tesla model 3 outsold BMW 3-series, MB C-class and Audi A3 saloons combined. EVs are happening mate. China is invading Europe next year with some crazy, sexy and Cheaper models with new technology battery packs. Hydro simply never gonna happen , just perhaps for large commercial vehicles...maybe.
You’re really downplaying the potential of hho or hydrogen generation and I think it is because this channel is biased toward electric vehicles.
hho :)
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Hydrogen vehicles 10 minutes to refuel, but no infrastructure in place and also very expensive vs Electric vehicles 30 minutes or longer to recharge, and where do you think the electricity comes from? Hmmm...Maybe we should return back to horse and buggy 🤔
Toyota is coming out w hydrogen line thats going to crush EVs. EVs have a lot of probs. Dendritic spiking etc. The only reason EVs pulled ahead HVs stalled in tech? Politics. Like using vaccuum tubes to diodes & chips WWII. Set electronics back 20 yrs. Edisons GE was well connected.
Just the fact that it takes hours to "fill the tank" in an electric car turns me off. Yes then there Is the lithium battery disposal contamination problems , that is scary. I like electric vehicles but lean towards Hydrogen power still.
Batteries are recycled and materials are reused in energy storage batteries.
Technically, Hydrogen is also an electric car, also brake energy in eletric comes from converting kinetic energy not thermal energy
Yeah again the hydrogen is extremely costly and too complicated and not really friendly. So yes it is behind the battery which is soon to evolve into something greater, that is the battery
@@craighoagland4829 No, technically a hydrogen car is a Hybrid. It works exactly like a diesel-electric locomotive. If it's battery is big enough to be plugged in overnight so it will drive a few miles without the generator running, it's a plug-in hybrid.
H2 FCV are more like CNG and Hybrid Vehicles.
@@adrianguggisberg3656 Hydrogen fuel cell cars are not hybrid, and doesn't store electricity in batteries. It is always producing electricity when the cell is working.
@@blazegeorge6688 All fuel cell cars need batteries to store electric energy. The fuel cell cannot provide the flexibility required for landgoing vehicles. It could work for a ship and possibly even for plane. However, the process in the fuel cell is exactly the same as in a combustion engine. Fuel from a tank and oxygen from the atmosphere are being used to produce energy. A fuel cell with a parallel battery as it's used in all hydrogen fuel cell cars is exactly the same principle as what you find in a Toyota Prius.
There are some interesting applications for hydrogen. Cars are not one of them.
the very limited range of electric cars is being ignored and it is an absolute deal killer. we will only realized this when it is too late. ELECTRIC CARS ARE A FAD. Mark my words on this. make the combustion engines more efficient. that is the answer.
Hydrogen cars are electric cars. Stopped watching after 43sec...
Regarding the enviromental impact of these technologies, the video completely ignores the fact that most of the electricity from the grid used to charge electric car batteries comes from burning coal.
What comes additional to that is the amount of energy you need to produce the lithium cells. To recycle them is practically impossible what leads to toxic waste.
Then surly that means the power stations need changing not the electric cars.
Not in the UK it doesn't. Just 4% of the UK's energy is from coal. Do more research before you post.
@@rohei1681 Recycling lithium cells is practically impossible? You'd better tell Volkswagen. They built an EV recycling plant in Zwickau in Eastern Germany a while ago, and have been using it ever since. The video of the recycling process is here on RUclips. I didn't see any toxic waste, as almost everything was recycled and reused......
and natural gas, mostly methane.
Right now there are 11 hydrogen fuelling stations currently in the uk, but 13,000 electric charging stations.. You don't need a crystal ball to see the future of hydrogen cars 😂😂 solid state battery technology is a few years away with 500 mile ranges and 5 minute recharging capabilities.... Evs are electric vehicles and just need batteries not fuel cells
Plus people don’t really charge in stations. It is done at home overnight.
@Harreson...a while back SOME GUYS CRYSTALL BALL showed just 12 Horseless Carriage Model T...no filling stations....and about 18,000 Horse with Carriage and several hundred thousand horses...point is......HYDROGEN is here to stay...will grow significantly over next 5 years ....however...Generation Y and Z will prefer PILOTLESS DRONES as the personal transportation of Choice by 2040 so all the previous modes of transportation...including horse and buggy...will all be museum pieces.
@@renegallegos7938 Just invest your millions in the infrastructure then. What are you waiting for? A surefire bet, right? :)
Meanwhile hydrogen for cars is making less and less sense since every year they will cost more than an equivalent EV.
Sure, a 1000 mile hydrogen vs 500 mile EV kinda sorta makes sense, until you realise that the EV will be much cheaper to operate overall. 1000 miles - that is a $50 trip hydrogen vs a $15 trip electric (granted, $20 extra will be spent on food during the 30 min pit stop).
And when exactly are these solid state batteries coming
@@wertigon The high cost of hydrogen is mainly due to the low demand. But I have a few reasons why Hydrogen holds a chance. EV have a lot of lithium ion batteries. These batteries will degrade slowly. The process of recycling Lithium is difficult, and if it is recycled then it is not profitable. Even fuel cell vehicles need batteries but the amount of batteries hydrogen cars need is way less than in a conventional EV. The range of a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle depends upon the amount of hydrogen fuel cells and not the amount of batteries in the vehicle, and because the charge has to be stored for a short period of time, then hydrogen cars can use supercapacitors instead of lithium ion batteries. Supercapacitors unlike their lithium ion counterparts, can last like forever
The new Tesla coal-fired-cars are truly amazing.
Have you heard about wood powered Teslas?
@@Vidmantas969 Casey Jones used wood.
It must be true, I saw it on the television...
The flatulence teslas are the most efficient.
Strangely, the same coal fired power stations have powered the oil refineries which probably produced the fuel for the car you drive, yet you don't see that as an issue? Strange.
Where do you get filled with hydrogen? My brother had a hydrogen vehicle in LA and had difficulty in refueling. Imagine you live in Iowa.
Heeeey! Hydrogen can be used as fuel that is directly injected in burn chamber, true dyalise system that is extracted from wather wich is in tank instead of normal fuel, bideway whith 1 liter wather vehicle can rich 800 km, how about that hydrogen motor?!
Total electric efficiency loss of 5% over a distribution network is wholly underestimated. According to a paper by Imperial College London it suggests a loss of 36-47% in Low Voltage network and 17-27% in High Voltage network.
All grids need major upgrade.
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I wanted to trade crypto but got confused by the fluctuations in price .
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Electric vehicles is winning the battle for powering vehicles, largely because of government subsidizes and the cost of producing hydrogen versus using electricity directly, especially if you are talking about producing electricity with wind and solar. What is being missed is the efficiencies that could be achieved with a nuclear energy. The cost of producing hydrogen could be reduced by building a new generation of nuclear plants and placing the hydrogen producing facilities close by. The hydrogen plants would run late at night at these plants which would reduce the overall cost of nuclear energy by essential using the electricity produced in off hours to produce a secondary product, ie, hydrogen. The problem is that nuclear energy is not being built in this country even though it obviously is the answer to produce the base load that wind and solar needs. I really believe this solution would be the cheapest solution for producing vast amount of alternative energy but it would take the government to go all in on such a solution. But the leftish have brainwashed the public that only windmills and solar are solutions. They are not.
The energy used in making and re-making batteries & fuel-cells should be part of your story
So obviously even Tesla has been forced to seek a more viable energy source than the Extension Cord. When I see as many Hydrogen stations as I do Gasoline stations, get back to me. So far I am waiting to see my first, which is the same result for battery recharge stations next to the Motel where I Can spend the next night while the battery recharges. P.T. Barnum understood, he said there was one of you born every minute. Nostradamus had nothing on Ol' Barnum and his predictions. Say I hear Biden is subsidizing battery cars, as long as they're not Tesla. Just the Lousy ones, made by GM.
Hydrogen for semi’s and batteries for commuters. Easy.
Batteries for lawn movers
Electrolysis is not 75% energy efficient. More like 33%.
How efficient is to turn crude oil into diesel or gasoline? 🤔
The cumulative efficiency of the total process is below 33%.
Electrolysis> storage > transport > Reconversion > Drive.
@@rogerstarkey5390 If you have a renewable energy source behind electrolysis you can produce hydrogen clean and efficient.
Can we achieve the same result with crude oil?
If the electricity is provided in that specific area why we need transportations?
The infrastructure is already here we only need a reliable power source.
@@Volkyno
Ah! The "Free Renewable source" opinion!
As a clean energy advocate I'm always being told "but only X% of the grid is clean energy" ...... Which is true! (Increasing, but true)
Therefore, we need all we can get and we need to use it to *offset as much fossil fuel generation as possible* (I'm sure you agree?)
That being the case, when applied to the task of moving "a vehicle" we have 2 "new solutions"?
Straight BEV
Hydrogen.
Take 3 "units" of Electrical Energy (assume they're "green")
Process those 3 units to move a BEV and you get an output of about 2.4 units "at the wheels" (80% efficient)?
Do the same with Hydrogen, you get about 1 unit (maybe less) "at the wheels?
2 viewpoints.
You move the BEV 2.4 times the distance for the same energy.
Or
You just used an extra 1.4 units for the same distance.
That's 1.4 units which could have (SHOULD have!) been used to offset fossil generation.
That means 1.4 units of DIRTY energy was produced and used elsewhere.
Therefore
*Hydrogen is not CLEAN* Even if you use clean energy.
It's DIRTY on an ongoing basis.
.........
As for the next "argument"
"But if it was going to be wasted, if it was SPARE capacity!!!"
Simple
BUILD MORE STORAGE.
Build it ONCE and that energy is never wasted again.
Just btw, it doesn't have to be Lithium based storage!
Cheap but bulky versions are available.
It's that simple!!
Electrolysis itself is around 68 to 80% efficient in most applications - and that too, it's only looking at utilising the hydrogen, and throwing out the O2. Electrical charging infrastructure requires a huge amount infrastructure upgrade to deal with peaks of current usage - yes you can "gather" all the electrical energy in a HUGE space comsuming battery farm, or in a smaller high pressure hydrogen bund :)
When you compare an electric car like neo that swap batteries instead of waiting to charge them hydrogen cars are like BMWs expensive and impractical
NIO is a cheating story to trap people's money. Trust Chinese companies, why not directly pouring money into the sea? The core of any EV cars is the battery. Any swapping of batteries means hand-over car owners' asset to someone / some companies.........
Battery Swap is too EXPENSIVE and it LIMITS how many cars can be PRODUCED.
which is why TESLA Abandoned battery swap technology for SUPERCHARGING.
this is why TESLA can make over 600,000 cars per year and NIO only 10,000 cars per year.
NIO House is also TOO EXPENSIVE and IF they want to GROW will have to KILL NIO House and battery swap.
@@markplott4820 NIO just this month have expanded into Norway.
@@pcmdanny2 NIO give you the option to buy their cars much cheaper without the battery. You then lease the battery for $150/mth and swap or charge if you like. The business model is extremely popular as all current limitations to EV travel are bypassed.
@@smackcheeks - NIO is SMALL potatoes , NORWAY still perfers Compact HOT HATCH , compared to what NIO is offering.
and by Q4 2021 TESLA Berlin should be OPERATIONAL and Producing the ADVANCED model Y , which will OUTSELL NIO .
let's not talk about which is better, just by the Ev charging station alone are all over the country and only take between 30-45mins to full charge with supercharger. There are ONLY 45 Hydrogen station IN California, that mean you had a limited zone of you can go. and there always a line at the station waiting to fill up and some people said it can went out of Hydrogen from the station then you've to wait for reload.
Pretty obvious to me which technology is and will be the winner. I am not saying hydrogen fuel cell is just smoke and mirrors, such as their usefulness in some cities where charging an EV is next to impossible, but certainly hydrogen cars will only take up a small fraction of the zero-emission vehicle market.
EV has at present upper hand, but environmental issues about lithium will be serious considering more and more uses are considered.
Air. Concern about the air you and your kids breath.
Solid state batteries should solve the problems of battery recycling.
Does the efficiency of electrolysis of water really matter if a renewable source of energy such as solar is being used to power it? The convenience and speed of refueling over time needed to recharge a battery would suggest that Hydrogen should be hands down favorite. Battery power appears to have numerous other negatives to address with safe disposal at end of battery life.
Adding the mining of battery minerals is very toxic.
And they catch fire in any accident strong enough to deform the battery.
They don’t want the liberty and freedom of people to prosper. It is all about control of the people.
@@josephward6422
Yes, they want self driving cars to lock the doors and take you to the police station when you are wanted by the state.
@@FFE-js2zp That would never happen! “You silly rabbit: Trix are for kids!”
"New hydrogen Tesla" Elon will sue you for that announcement, I hope .
😅
Hydrogen is the way to go. To refill an hydrogen car today takes less than 4 minutes now and it’s easier to produce with green energy today in 2022. Hydrogen will become cheaper and cheaper to produce in the near future.
This video is so yesterday and DUMB. Still equates e-vehicles to Li batteries, which is a transitional battery technology already obsolete today.
Sorry but hydrogen car can't be a think. It have too many négatifs points
The positive is, at least we are looking at alternatives to petrol and diesel.... 🤔
We're decades behind due to large oil companies shoving a wrench in the works
I already driven over 190k miles in EVs. Hydrogen has absolutely no chance.
EV’s are no alternative to petrol or diesel. 1 Kg of petrol can lift 1 ton 5000 meters straight up but, 1 Kg of Li-ion can lift 1 ton only 300 meters… no comparison
@@newdean1637 Maybe it has, but it might be just a bit too soon yet.
Another video sponsored by the oil and gas industry. They are desperate to get traction for hydrogen production. The reason is they know that green hydrogen (hydrogen created from water by electrolysis) will be unable to keep up with demand and therefore they be able to reform hydrogen from fossil fuels and thereby continue to trash the environment for profit and bonuses.
this year, Amsterdam city will activate 2000 plugs for EV cars.
It's twice the hydrogen stations actually available... on the whole planet.
@ Phil V If current use is your criteria - then give up now because because gas has a million fill-up points around the US alone. Perhaps you should think about whether gas stations can be repurposed as hydrogen fuel stations as tech improves and keep all those millions of businesses operating.
@@ln5493 my point is the world has already choosen : we are installing 10 000 times more plugs than H2 stations, period.
And all these old gas stations will simply diseapear, the surving ones will be repurposed... as battery quickchargers stations.
I know, many public and sponsorized initiatives join their forces to install those 1 million$ h2 stations. It won't change the facts : the near future is for li-ion and 150 to 350 kW chargers, the next level is the li-solid or li-sulfur, with 450 to 1MW charge and 800-1000 kms autonomy.
The H2 momentum is and will, never comes.
The more battery is progressing, the less hydrogen is interesting. It's a kind of plasma TV announced in a world already using Oled and waiting for Microled.
An already lost battle.
@@philv3941 realistically only homeless people, or those on extremely long holidays will need dedicated plug in power stations, as it’ll be more likely done at your home over night, like your phone
@@ln5493 " Perhaps you should think about whether gas stations can be repurposed as hydrogen fuel stations as tech improves and keep all those millions of businesses operating."
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
@@ln5493
If you really want to use the "number of fill up points" criteria,
How many electrical sockets are there accessible by vehicles on the planet? Slightly more than "a million"?
Sorry, you lose
What an incredibly biased video, there is no mention of the cost of electric motors and the strain it puts on copper supplies, the use of lithium which you cannot recycle, the cost of replacement Batteries etc. etc., potentially hydrogen fuelled ICE is the way to go it doesn't put inflationary strains on rare resources in the same way as either lithium battery or hydrogen fuel cell powered cars do. If all vehicles Go fully electric the strain on a countries national power grid is going to accelerate faster than the infrastructure can cope.
We are already seeing seasonal power generation shortages issues in places as diverse as California and Ontario.
The other point to consider here is that even though Hydrogen powered vehicles have been around since the early 1800's modern hydrogen powered vehicles are in their infancy, look at the progress lord Bamford of JCB has made with his hydrogen powered ICE vehicles and Toyota are also working on hydrogen Powered ICE Vehicles its the way forward for sure. The biggest problem we have is blinkered politicians and biased videos such as yours influencing the market.
You clearly left out the mining process for battery production. Also left out all the resources to make power for electricity
Hydrogen sounds like the Better Option.
Only if you are an oil company.
@@GR8TDUCK no lol. Any thermofluids engineer, physisist and chemist will tell you otherwise. You are just wrong. HFC have higher power densities, are more environmental friendly and have higher efficiencies. Keep in mind HFC havent even had a quarter the funds BEVs have had. Imagine once we put more capital into HFCS
@@anxheloripa449 You will have to explain why you are smarter than Elon and all the major auto companies who are putting their resources into BEV.
This is the best way to keep our earth a whole lot safer.
@@GR8TDUCK what a dumb logic. Im not saying i am smarter. Im saying that HFC is a new tech that will replace batteries. Many big corps are working on hfc because of the superior qualities. It could eventually replace plane engines or be used as supplemwntal power source
Toyota working on FCV since 1992, newer Hydrogen production cars since 2013 and now mainly Toyota, Hyundai, and Honda in the mix after others abandoned those efforts. Interestingly only Hyundai has both electric and hydrogen actually for sale. I would imagine the first 5 year sales of the Nexo compared with electric Ioniq as well as (electric) Kona will be very telling along with profit margins of each since they both started the same year. Hyundai Nexo secures 69% global FCV market share right now. Since both started sales same year its a fair comparison... It may fully come down to economics.
Nexo sales worldwide 2018 ( 727 cars) 2019 (4,800 ) 2020 (6,500)
Hyundai Kona (Electric) 2018 (22,787) 2019 (48,451) 2020 (85,313)
case closed lol.
Toyota Mirai now in its second generation a hydrogen fuel cell powered saloon car.
Ok, if you are going to include the production process of hydrogen, you need also to include the production process of the Lithium Ion battery. If you did that, you would not have the same percentages for efficiency. Further considerations have to be the recycling costs. All-in-all, batteries are not the silver bullet most people believe them to be.
Still way more efficient than hydrogen. See Engineering Explained’s video on the subjext
Please tell me why in your mind Hydrogen (a fuel that you fill an FCEV with to go the distance) is the equivalent to a Lithium Ion battery ( an electrochemical storage and conversion unit that is installed in a BEV)?
@@jonathanfields4ever but way less environmentally damaging. True in the video the "BIG" play is on reforming natural gas, but there is absolutely zero mention of the mining of the raw materials for battery production, there is zero mention of the fire risk with battery failure and then what about the recycling? on top of all that you have the transportation of all the materials to get them manufactured! Hydrogen has a way higher energy density that a battery, and the pollution from the raw material is zero. Even if, and it is a huge if, a hydrogen tank were to be damaged such that the hydrogen leaked out, it would not spontaneously explode, and would not produce lethal gases, unlike a battery when it burns. The obsession with battery power is almost as insane as the obsession with the internal combustion engine!
@@paulraper6399 Apparently all the fuel cells and totally new infrastructure required for a hydrogen economy won’t use any resources! Cool stuff
🙄
Yes hydrogen cars are better than electric cars, especially when that hydrogen is combined with carbon. In a chain, 8 carbons long. Called Octane!
Obviously written by an electric car favoring company.
Electric Cars have come a long way in a short time. Hydrogen cars have a long way to go yet.
They can easily produce those cars. It's not a complicated thing. They've been around for a while. The problem is filling stations. The easiest way is onsite production thru water electrolysis. That requires expensive retrofitting current gas stations.
If we use hydrogen it will just be another way to control price at the pump.
And if everyone switch to plug in the same except electric companies and btw in America we don't have near the grid to even support 10% having ev's hell some parts of the country use rolling brownouts still due to lack of electricity
You do realize prices reflect all the wages & regulations, not profit?
@@wuhanlabtech3580 EV charging will primarily occur off peak demand periods and electricity will be priced to encourage that. The expansion of solar and decentralized storage throughout the grid also reduces peak load problems.
You said it. And that is exactly why the big oil companies are *desperate* for hydrogen to succeed. They know full well that in 10 to 15 years time the arse will have dropped out of their once precious oil market, and they need to find a replacement. Preferably one they can control the price and availability of.......
Electricity is everywhere, hydrogen well you need energy to make it and you need gas stations. For this reason hydrogen lost the battle.
Most people have legs - more people have legs than cars. For this reason cars lost the battle --- oh wait....
recently Toyota ran a corolla in the 24hrs of lemans with the 1.6l turbo engine from the yaris GR. What was so special about it? The engine was converted to be a hydrogen burning combustion engine.
The idea was to experiment with the possibility of being able to convert existing gasoline cars into hydrogen driven cars. This would be a cheaper alternative to fase out traditional combustion engines than flat-out replacing them.
Toyota isn't the first one with that idea, BMW and Mazda already experimented with that before and all, including Toyota now, ran into the issue that it is not easy to switch a fossil fuel ICE to Hydrogen and even with extensive modifications it has very poor fuel economy with the Hydrogen. I give them kudos for being able to complete the race when not too long ago they blew engines only after about 5 minutes of run time but the race also shows the issues in that it needed lots of refueling stops (about every 10 laps) even though it had an approx. 180 liter volume tank that took up the whole rear section of the vehicle and that the refueling station for just this one vehicle was huge with two trailers for the Hydrogen and a class B/7 truck for the filling equipment that needed to be away from the normal pit stops due to size and safety.
With that I think you can pretty much forget that it would be a cheaper alternative to facing out traditional ICE.
The overall comparison between the EV car and the Hydrogen/fuel cells is the advantage of the EV in efficiency of transformation and use of the energy besides being the EV being practical in use. There is no competition between the two, imo. The choice of EV is conclusive.
For now. The new Mirai can get 850 miles of range. The only downside at this time is the lack of infrastructure at the moment
@@lions208436 Nice use of "Occam's razor". Don't mention ALL the other downsides of hydrogen - hazardous material, expense, invisible fire, complexity (ha-ha, all the things that were held against batteries at one stage or another....)
@@chrisheath2637 Word! That would have taken too much time to list all the pros and cons.
5:10 - Tesla now have 250 kW Superchargers. And soon it will have 350 kWh Superchargers.
but you can not use it too often, check Tesla website, Tesla advise only use the super charge once in a while, becaseu it stress out the battery and shorten the Life of battery
Currently just 2 out of 10 chargers are 150kW, the rest are 70kW which is a 2 hour charge time.
And theres barely any of them
350kw chargers are already here in the UK...
Do the numbers, a hydrogen fuel cell car has three times the range of electric.
and costs 2 to 3 times as much money per mile
And you drive most of the range looking for the fuel station, which may require filling itself.
@@rogerstarkey5390 so? what kind of argument is that? 🤦♂️ petrol heads had the same argument 10-15 years ago regarding electric cars... everything depends on popularity, supply/demand and if there'll be greater need for hydrogen filling stations guess what -->> they'll appear 🤷♂️ if you have 2 hydrogen cars per 100.000 it's not viable yet it needs some support (similar to support received by electric vehicles)... so time will tell, eventually 😉
Won't that depend on the size of the hydrogen tank, and the capacity of the EV's battery? A general comment like that is meaningless unless you specify more detail.
Home charging is one of the great benefits of battery cars. There can easily be 10,000km between I charge outside my carport.
If the Aptera gets off the ground this time. It’s car will change everything. Why im skeptical as us car companies will treat it like Tucker of the 50s.
Home charging my plugin hybrid with my SOLAR PANEL ELECTRICITY
Not everyone has a home or a garage. Where are they going to charge?
@@jimbob1096 I do not know how it is around the world, but in Denmark a lot of leaders are put up in the cities so people in apartments can drive an electric car also a number of workplaces have charging stations but can use (it is not free but not expensive than at home)
@@jimbob1096 Public charger? They don't have a gas station at home either, but they still get by.....
Hydrogen cars will be more effektive during the Years and easy to tank like diesel and petrol.
Toyota tried it and it was a flop. No one who owns an EV would ever bother to go back to driving to fueling stations. No one who will own an EV would ever bother to go back to driving to fueling stations.
A Hydrogen leak can result in a significant fire which is INVISIBLE! Drivers and passengers may not realize that they need to evacuate their vehicle until it is too late. The efficiency calculation presented here (80% for electric cars) is faulty since it does not take into consideration the ineffeciency of delivering and generating the electricity to the charging kiosk. Creating the electricity also pollutes.
It all depends on what the car manufacturers are willing to invest in and the infrastructure country's want to put in place for those cars, personally I prefer something I can charge at home.
Still takes too long at the moment to charge while away from home, Hydrogen would take less than 5 minutes for a 400 mile range and not everyone is as lucky as you in having somewhere to charge overnight, where I live in England at least half of homes are terraced houses or apartment's where there is nowhere to charge up your car. I personally think in 30 years people will look back at electric cars and say did they really think they were the future.
Exactly. Germany explicitly stated for example that the EV concept would not fit in their society. Taken how accurate they are in terms of societal latency, nobody would have the time to wait for their car to charge for hours as every second is precious. They have pushed the hydrogen technology further than any other country in Europe.
No not really hydrogen is a massive energy hog so its a non starter.
Guess what : many people live in apartments and don't have a private parking space to charge their EVs.
@@johndoe1909 Things move on electric cars once had a range of 75 miles now look. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Hydrogen as a source of propulsion, man seems to be pretty ingenious, great strides in technology seem to be all around us I wouldn't bet against it that's for sure.
Lol, this is a hilarious headline.
Ever heard the saying he who laughs last laughs longest?
Will NEVER happen! Hydrogen is inefficient compared to batteries. May be ok for heavy haulers, but Elon will never travel that road.
Just wondering if someone could develop a more efficient electrolysis system? Then use wind or solar to create hydrogen for the vehicles. Then the hydrogen vehicles would not even need to plug into the grid like ev vehicles. Thus eliminating the natural gas dependence and adding load to the grid.
Such a shame this video is so biased. I was hoping for a balanced viewpoint - looks like I need to find that elsewhere.
Are Hydrogen Cars Are Better Than Electric? Answer: No.
I can fill a hydrogen car in 2 minutes and continue across America from coast to coast in 2 1/2 days. Electric can not.
Good luck on building a couple billion lithium car batteries without impacting the environment. The truth, it isn’t going to happen. Nobody wants to talk about the huge environmental problems related to manufacturing and mining rare earth minerals on a global scale if most vehicles and homes go total electric power. About time to discuss safe nuclear power.
Hopefully in the future we will have worked out the problems of energy. Obviously there are problems with electric and hydrogen. One problem is energy storage from what I've read. Lithium, wind and solar, hydrogen for now will not replace gas powered vehicles. Will be interesting to see how it goes in the future. Enjoyed your video.
That may be, but electric vehicles are heavily subsidized by the government, ie, basically the people are paying for it. Therefore, the electric vehicles are being forced upon us so governments can easily control the population at large; they just need to turn off the electric grid.
@@josephward6422 they won't need to the price of electricity is just about to go through the roof... Imagine putting all your eggs in the one basket.. The electric companies will have a monopoly..
Keep thinking that…the number one selling car in the world is the Tesla Model Y.
@@Beatles4Sale. Maybe the number one selling car, but it's only one company and one car. Gas powered cars are still being produce by the other vehicle makers which collectively outnumber electric vehicles. Of course they are pretty much all getting into the action of EV's. One drawback for now at least is the batteries end of life. Buying a used EV could be cost prohibitive if the battery will need replacing soon. It would solve the problem if the batteries can be made smaller and more efficient and longer lasting. There are those working on that among other problems. A lot of people are going to stick to what they're used to. Gas powered vehicles. Which come with their own set of drawbacks. It's just the drawbacks people are used to.
@@danielhanawalt4998 I totally agree with you about Tesla. They really only have two models. The other two are low selling premium vehicles. As far as batteries go, I respectfully disagree. While some batteries have had issues, especially from LG Chem, most can last several hundred thousand miles. The new Tesla Semi is guaranteed for one million miles. Also the batteries are 90-95 percent recyclable. Just one example is a company called Redwood Materials. You can do a search if interested. Links sometimes get taken down. I do agree it’s very early days. There is a lot of work to be done. There are so many companies working on battery technology it’s crazy. The Chinese have a sodium ion battery car coming out, they say, later this year. It’s for low powered vehicles. I do think that electric vehicles are not the only solution. But we are on the S curve for electric car sales…even in the USA.
Why hydrogen? Refuel is more faster then charging.
Creating electricity is easy, storing it is the fly in the ointment. Lithium batteries are a long way from perfect, recycling them is a major issue we have yet to deal with. Solar and wind energy is useless unless it can be stored for when and where it is needed, using large lithium batteries for storage is extremely expensive and environmentally harmful. Unless there is a quantum leap in battery technology hydrogen is the way to go even with the losses in conversion.
I just love Tesla Electric, the electric is more straight forward for maximum efficiency and my favorite SPEED and power !
Doesn't mean it's better bud
VW settled to pay over a billion to install hydrogen stations across the US.
Hydrogen is the future as well. Once they finish the renewable method(currently in progress) using biomass instead of methane it will have less carbon footprint than EVs. On top it gets more range than EVs do and refuel much quicker. It has a reading of 60-70mpg which is great. It's current hindrance are lack of stations which is steadily growing with a few free refueling travel stations.
The video imo was a bit too biased (other ev brand that are not Tesla have much lower efficiency ratings). I believe both are great options.
i did use the K with distilled water that regenerates by separating the H and the O2. the H goes to the air mass which enters the fuel injection/carb. the exhaust end is the H2O. i used it on my 1995 Buick Park Avenue; took it to the smog station in 2010. the printout shows NOX 0-.05. too bad the DMV would not allow this smog result.
Seems fossil fuels continue to POWER progress towards finding better alternative forms of energy.
HOW ABOUT SAYING THE ELECTRIC CAR NEED YOUNG AFRICAN KIDS TO DIG THERE COBOLT FROM THE GROUND OR WHAT EVER YOU CALL IT HYDROGEN IS WATER PEOPLE !!!
Didn't Elon speak out against hydrogen?