The worst thing that could happen is you discover your French girlfriend is really from Quebec.... no really, what worries me is collision with partially submerged object.... because there really is no prevention....
Complacency kills so I think the worst thing that could happen is getting complacent. I do not think you will have that problem. I think the most likely thing you will see is the potential for chaffing of a halyard or sheet that subsequentialy lets go resulting in the sails flailing about until you wrangle them down. You guys have made it to the islands. When you get around to it please let us know how things went vis-a-vis your risk assessment for the trip.
Friends just went through this scenario, out of respect I won't go into details but get a body bag from Amazon, they're surprisingly cheap, very compact and if you get one with handles can even be used as a stretcher for the injured or to help another cruiser in need. Additionally, since they must be waterproof, you might be able to rig one as a collision mat long enough to limp to shore. Being forced to source a body bag in the middle of a long crossing during a tragedy is not something you want to attempt on the high seas, especially if now shorthanded, it can lead to other souls being lost. I compliment you on your other points of preparation. Also, there's a few videos of using a series drogue, or sea anchor, which you should have anyway, that can be rigged to vector direction if you lose rudder
Our rudder broke between Tonga and Fiji. The weld inside the rudder that held the metal plate to the rudder-post failed, so the rudder was still there but we couldn't control it at all. We tried lots of things - a bridle to control the rudder, trailing lines to steer, a spinnaker pole to steer. None of them were much good - might be better on a boat with a different underwater profile giving more directional stability than a fin-and-spade. This all happened on a friend's boat that I was crewing on. You're wrong to say that you can't have a spare rudder, you have just chosen not to have one. My boat has a whole spare rudder in the form of a Hydrovane. It also solves the problem of what to do if you can't use the electric autopilot due to power loss/lack of ability to charge the batteries/electrical failure/autopilot system failure. On our journey across Biscay from Cornwall to A Coruña last July we discovered after 1 day that our (old) 540Ah house batteries were kaput and only holding about 50Ah, so we just stopped using the autopilot and switched to the Hydrovane - the batteries were then only running the chartplotter, lights (all LED), AIS, fridge and VHF. With 350Ah of solar on board we were fine.
Good coverage. I don't worry about our rudder, we have another one, but you could bolt the dunny door to a spinnaker pole. I'm thinking the replacement stay is a top idea. I'm thinking it would be good to install it already and tape it or hot glue it to the mast, because it's not likely to be nice and calm to be climbing up the mast especially if you are already missing a stay.
Dealing with one of those situation you listed is no big deal if you're prepared. you rarely find yourself in trouble when only one of those happens idependently. Unfortunately, when bad things happen, they come in batches. One leading to another and they end up piling up, until you find yourself up shit creek without a paddle. That's a totally different ball game.
Hello again from sailorbear ;) dont loose your home (ship) use if rudder is lost an drifting ancor and se where the waves vill bring you it will ceep your fore in the direction of the waves but you will going with the waves :)
The only time you abandon ship is when you need to step up into your life raft ( never ,,,,NERVER ,,, step down into your life raft !!! ) loosing the ruder is bad but if you boat is afloat it can still be controlled ,,, they make some wind gains that are also secondary rudders
When on my comp crew course our instructor was telling us about the tragic 1979 Fastnet race; 14 boats abandoned with many lives lost, but once the weather cleared they found only 5 of the 14 abandoned had actually sunk and the crews would have done much better if they had stayed on there respective boats (minus the 5). As you said; ALWAYS STEP *UP* INTO THE LIFE RAFT!
Hey there, have you watched Sailing Svea, a lovely couple from Duved in Northern Sweden, who handsteered from Kap Verde to the Carrabean (this year) because their autopilot broke and they decided to go anyway instead of not getting there at all. Talk about Viking Powrer. Just have to love their stamina and determination. But then again, they are also from the region of Jämtland , and we just don`t give up. Love to watch your sailing adventures. Wish you the best of times.
Losing autopilot is not a disaster on a boat with two crew. A disaster would be for a singlehanded. But there have been cases where singlehanded sailors managed to carry on by sailing through out the day by hand steering or using other ways of trying to keep the boat on course and sleep some hours at night while the boat was adrift. It would always be easier to keep a course on a boat if the boat is a long keeled boat. A bad scenario is losing the rudder.
Get a Monitor Windvane...we have a Raymarine autopilot which has never let us down, but we probably use our Monitor Windvane the most often for Ocean passages. -Rebecca
Exactly!!! I was completely smashed up 1 kilometre from my house while riding around a traffic island at 20 kilometres an hour. 12 days hospital, punctured lung, 27 broken bones, 5 operations a year off work.. If only I had been doing something simple like sailing the Atlantic, instead of commuting to work!
Great video guys. Likelihood x Severity = Risk. Forgot to show you our mods to the keel in Almerimar. Ours is bolted back to the sub-frame of the boat not just the skin. 25mm x 250mm bolts with 60mm spreader plates. With 12mm plate ss formers and webs. We will have to send you some pics. Sail Safe guys. Ant, Cid and the pooch crew.
Bonjour le R&S family.. apart from all advertising... une petite info en français. (sorry) Pour ce qui est d'une balise AIS de secours.. il existe des balises "pêche" "fishing buoy". Vous pouvez programmer votre numéro AIS avec une appellation style MOB1 .. MOB2 (Man OverBoard) ou "SOSMOB", autonomie 240 heures .. elle est (sont) fixés sur les bouées filets de pêche normalement. *.*.*. For an emergency AIS beacon .. there are "fishing buoy" beacons. You can program your AIS number with a style designation MOB1 .. MOB2 (Man OverBoard) or "SOSMOB" and or the name of the boat .. (have a look on Matsutec HAB150 or HAB150S (for SOS button), autonomy 240 hours .. it is (are) fixed on the fishing net buoys normally. Just fix it on a float pole that you throw as soon as there is a problem .. it's easier to look for a MOB with a beacon / flash lamp on a screen than with a small flash lamp. Maybe not very much in the regulations but for a hundred dollars ..!?
Sensible video and always good to work through disaster scenarios, hope it never happens, but plan for the worst. Apparently according to your friends back in the Spanish Marina (Almerimar) #3 would be a total disaster. ruclips.net/video/rXNK4zPyFOU/видео.html Sophie is getting quite a reputation as a great cook apparently, and think you are missed back there!
You guys did a nice job of risk assessment. You didn't say these exact words (Probability of Occurrence and Consequence of Occurrence), but you went through the thought process. Sweet. I like the way you guys think.
Pretty good checklist. Personally the only one that scares me is keel failure, because you may get trapped (high chance), everything else you can probably do the SOS via satellite and get a C-130 plane out to you from either coast within 8 hours. But Cheeki Rafiki, a Beneteau 40 that had keel fail and all souls were lost at sea gives me nightmares.
As a sorta nerd, I think the worst thing is not having tea or coffee. How would you relax? Oh yes, I would never worry about refrigeration, I would have stocked up with nothing but cans and MRE’s. 👍🙂
Great show, basically back ups for everything. I have heard of a wind vane autopilot that could be an autopilot back up and I remember some one loosing their rudder and made it back use the wind vane autopilot rudder. Something that might need more research on a tillerless boat.
Loss of cooking, ie, can heat food. Suggest a black plastic (or similar) bag and place in the sun. About an hour should give you nice warm food. Doubt it will cook something raw, but until you try, you won't know.
In your discussion about loss of rudder you said that drogue steering doesn't work. Have you ever seen this write up and video? The test was done a Swan 44 which has a very similar you Polar Seal. They found that the key to control was to attach the steering bridle to blocks at midships so that the pull on the line did not provide any directional stability to the rear of the boat. bermudarace.com/emergency-steering-drogue-new-approach/
If you loose a rudder, you can trail a drogue on a bridle and move it from one side to the other. Even a sailbag can work as a drogue in an emergency. You can also steer by trimming your sails which is a lot more work, but manageable.
Haha! We shot a very similar video just the other day 😅 So here’s to say, we didn’t steal the idea, when it goes live in a few months. Great minds think alike 😁 X
Excellent approach to hazard identification and management. Auto pilot spares hopefully will ensure that doesn't happen. Rudder failure might just mean no steerage at times and possibly some steerage at other more favorable times. I'd only abandon ship with rudder failure if the boat was also on fire and sinking. You are well prepared. Fair winds and safe travels. David Busselton West Australia
All great points and you guys seem to have done some pretty good preparation. Just curious, I really like the idea of wind vanes/hydra vanes, the reason is that not only do you have an energy efficient means of steering but you also have a second rudder. What I don't know is if there is an option for modern boats that have swim platforms?
Get a copy of "Shrimpy" by Shane Acton. He sailed round the world on a 17 foot Caprice. His list would have been, "No. 1, run out of cigarettes. That's it."
You can steer the boat with the sails just the way you would steer a windsurfer. Learn how to sail a windsurfer and then you'll feel a LOT more confidant sailing. For example, when you want to tack, just pull all the sails in until the boat comes up into the wind, starting with the jib. You can backwind the jib to push the boat to the other tack if necessary to encourage the boat to "come about" and then gradually let the sails out on the other side as desired. In windsurfing, all you have is a sail to steer.
Great episode! You guys are the most prepared safety conscience sailors I've seen on You Tube and I admire your realistic view of an Atlantic Crossing!!
Or fire.... but I agree with you. The life raft is an absolutely miserable place to spend any time even on flat seas. Far too many boats have been found still floating without their crew while the crew perished in life rafts. I always say the only way I'm getting into my life raft is if I have to step up to get into it from my boat.
Folks, if you are going to keep going after the Caribbean: 1) Celestial Navigation - one good sextant (metal), one fantastic plastic - good battery or mechanical chronograph watches, clock, at least two - calculator would be nice, but not a necessity - paper charts. 2) Windvane - type with auxiliary rudder - emergency steering gear - some operable with cheap tiller pilot - extra third mate. 3) Tie the dyneema emergency stay on before crossing, flip around spreader tip and tie off to a mast/deck cleat/fitting, to keep it from banging. Do this, BEFORE LEAVING, because when the $#!] hits the fan you most likely do not have the time, or the sea state, to go up the mast to attach it. You may only have time to rig the bottom, to keep the mast up. If in doubt rig one Port one Starboard. Everything else you have pretty well covered. Cheers
1) These days with smart phones having charts, you have far more redundancy without the sextant/watches... the most likely cause of a loss of navigation instruments is a lightning strike so putting the phones in the microwave/oven (not turned on of course) or other metal box upon seeing the first signs of a thunderstorm is far better protection. Sextants are useless in cloudy weather also. The entire world relies on GPS and there are multiple networks that our phones and nav instruments can connect to so lots of redundancy there. 2) Not all boats can fit a wind vane... far cheaper to buy a second autopilot drive anyway. 3) You don't need to do that as you already have lots of halyards that go to the top of the mast... use one of those to tie it off until you can replace the stay with Dynema. If you lose a stay, the VERY first thing you should be doing anyway is easing the sheets and dropping and/or rolling up the sails completely to immediately relieve the pressure on the mast. One of those halyards will be plenty strong enough to keep the mast up in any conditions while you rig the replacement stay.
Ryan, Using your risk model when do pyrotechnic flares start to increase the risk. I.e. as you decrease the overall risk by adding other (modern) means at what point is the risk of fire or injury from pryotechnics a contributory factor in increasing overall risk.
This is a wonderful question. When i was in the airforce i laughed when we did flare training as we had all kinds of safety kit on. I really dont know the true risk of accidental ignition of flares but i do know training is key so you dont fire a parashot flare into your crotch while your boat is sinking. Most people buy flares, as with most safety kit without knowing why they have it or how to use it... only that they should have it. Ryan
And what about being struck by lightning ? It's one of our biggest fears, mostly because the consequences are quite unpredictable... And it seems that there is no real/perfect solution for this catastrophe scenario (except having a metal hull) ! Thanks for this very reassuring video guys ;)
If you loose your rudder don't get into a little life raft, try swimming to land it's faster! What if a plane crashes into you? Two or three spools of heavy fishing line Lots of lures, and a hand water maker! Think of the story IF after ten months lost at sea!
Not only very interesting and funny done but with great Solutions according to your own situation. Some of your faces and speeches you both give, make me allways laugh a lot. You are a very sympathic couple. In regard of an emergency Rudder, I have rigged at the stern a kind of a strong Inox Plate, with a cutout to insert a piece of Strong Inox pipe. The Plate is attached to the Stern and that way I can take my solid spezial oak brum stick, lead it thru and bolt, again with a round Inox tube, the rudderplate into it. With fittings I can lead it into the cockpit. Works very well but you cannot steer a straight line. I will order such an emergency steering for my new Pacific Windvane. I know folks who left a new 40ft Sailboat in the middle of the pacific. The boat is still under way as she has been seen but not contacted at the time. Again thank you for making me smile and this with excellent information too. Cheers Andy
Hi there, first of all I would like to thank you all for sharing this biggest concerns, but yes, losing the ruder is very bad, however, still at the shore.... you can provide an extra ruder, in Brazil is called "ruder of fortune".
Hi both, Thanks for the video. I think we should the probability consider. It's more dangerous in normal traffic. Autopilot ?ail, use a windpilot as others say. Think or better read the old books. In the 60th they didn't have windpilots and of course no electrical autopilots. They used the "trade wind sails", found a way to connect them to the wheel or tiller and got in this way a kind of an autopilot. Loosing the rudder is mostly not only loosing the rudder baut a big hole in the hull. If not you got good luck and I'm sure you will find a solution. Loosing the mast is a disaster as loosing the hull (because of some collision). Getting hurt is a disaster as well and MoB is the worst thing, as you told. You made the first Ocean already. So you got the experience that a lot of "could happens" are very, very seldom. Fair winds Tom
Nicely done. A couple of additional points for you... The addition of hydrovane type steering would address both of your prime concerns of loss of autohelm and loss of rudder. This would also help with reduced electrical draw so will reduce the need to run the engine as often and save big time precious power as autohelms are hugely power hungry. Also, you did not mention if you have a life raft on board for the ultimate abandon ship scenario.
Thanks and great overview of risks! a serious risk I could add is a lightning strike: 2 problems occur: 1. No electricity anymore as all electrical components are fried. (so no autopilot, navigation, phones - unless stored in the oven, etcetera) 2. Lightning may cause holes in the hull (as it tries to escape) Lightning happens more often on the return passage from the Caribbean to Europe in May or June...
Two Items: (1) you make terrific argument for a wind vane (2) take a look at the video on the Galerider web site to see how to steer a boat with no rudder. It is very informative. Happy sailing!
a good risk analysis exercise....re a holed hull try carryinh rubber matting...place this on the water pressure side to keep in place and if possible at all have it tie round the hull. my 2 cents worth...it happened and i did this only the vessel was stationary.
I can relate to “medical emergency at sea”. Had a close call myself few months ago, luckily happened while at home and hospital was short ambulance ride away. Had emergency surgery, now I’m missing some colon, but I’m still rolling😜
Part of the black art of boat design, is hull and sail plan balance. I have had the rare pleasure to sail on a very well balanced boat, that could maintain most points of sail with no one on the helm (in good weather) once we trimmed the sails properly. It helped that the owner had years of practice getting things right!
One or two abandon ship bags/containers with essentials in handy positions is a final step in being prepared, you two seem to have it well in hand- don't worry Mom. Fair winds!
Excellent discussion. Lose your rudder? Don't abandon ship! See s/v Hilma and s/v Zero. Ultimately they balanced the sails to go the direction they needed to go and in Hilma's case made a temp rudder.
Hi bill, we actually sailed on passage with a guy who lost his rudder during his yachtmaster exam. After listening to him i fail to see how anyone could safely control a boat through an ocean with no rudder. You could drag warps and go with the current but the ride would be very bad i do believe. Ryan
@@RyanSophieSailing Would you normally jump from your plane if you lost the engine? Stay in the boat, even if you can't steer, you are far better of than any other option when you are alone at sea. ok maybe in an f16 you might jump
@@kaakeith3772 I flew A-6s (two engine) and A-4s (single engine). Lose one on the A-6 not that big of a deal. Lose one on the A-4 and it's time to hit the silk.
Mean green alternator company beg them to make a marine version they make high output alternators for automotive just needs spark preventer to marine use
In a sailboat race from Miami to Nassau. Wind blowing out of the north at high 30’s, low to mid 40’s. Waves in the Gulf Stream were stacked up by the N winds to constant 20+ feet. About 50 miles from Miami as I was taking my turn on the helm. The tiller, which had been real heavy, suddenly went slack. I.E., no way to steer. We dropped sails until we could figure out what happened. A quick inspection showed the 2.5” stainless steel rudder post had broken. After talking we decided to put a triple reef in the main and put the storm jib up. By manipulating them we were able to get the boat headed west at about 1-2 knots. Due to stream we were headed N at 4+ knots. During all this I called the Coast Guard and they finally found us a couple hours later and towed us in. Not a pleassent experience to say the least. Wishing you gentle breezes and calm seas!!
Scott .. thanks for this real world story. May i ask your view on"balancing the sails for steering". It seemed to work short term but if i were to say to you... you need to do that for 1300nm what would your thoughts be... possible with a two person crew? Other options? Ryan
@@RyanSophieSailing Balancing sails is possible but I would think very tiring - I reckon impossible for 1300nm and it must have been tough for Scott for a couple of hours ! I've experimented myself many years ago in a Westerly 22 by just letting the tiller go and adjusting the sails - I'd thought it should be theoretically possible given the weather helm and lee helm you get if the sails aren't trimmed right, but it needs lots of continuous adjustments. Best option I reckon would be a pole with a board on the end similar to what you see in Italian gondola's, etc. Not sure about windvane/hydrovane that others mention, as I've never used one. Take a look at this video though which might be useful : ruclips.net/video/99KSZ3mEoKQ/видео.html
For loss of rudder you need to read up on balancing your sails to steer the boat. For potential hull compromise you should have ‘bungs’ for seacock and other holes, you should also have a supply of underwater epoxy. Know for any hull breach the location of towels to slow the flow of water so Epoxy maybe applied. I heard abandoned ship a lot in this video, that is the very last option and should not be done just because of a failure as the boat itself is better than a life raft, unless it’s under water. By the way if you were to lose your rig the first decision that needs to be made is does it need to be cut away to protect the hulls integrity or do you have the option to try preserving the rig keeping in mind if it is impacting the hull it needs to be cut away.
Hi ya mon, I do believe the only time we ever discussed abandoning ship was. A. In the event that we can not control the boat... though it was not discribed how we would go about this and i can assure you it would not be in a life raft. B. Keel failure or c. Catastrophic hull breach. A lit of people have wrote in tue event of a rudder loss all you need to do is balance the sails or run a drogue.... i find this extremely hard to believe an ocean setting. In falt water, coastal... maybe. The waves motion will change the angle of attack too often for balance sail to truly steer the boat. Putting out a drogue and drifting with the currents is an option but then food and water become an issue. Ryan
@@RyanSophieSailing regardless of your position on steering, I do hope you have a drogue, that in itself could afford you some calm to allow you to regroup and come up with a plan and or make repairs when heaving to is not an option
![Risk Management in sailing: When is it time to bail out of a passage? #72 [2/2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C7eQ3lk3F6E/mqdefault.jpg)
![Risk Management in sailing : How to assess the risk level of a passage #72 [1/2]](/img/1.gif)
So what do you guys think? What is the worst thing that can happen on an Atlantic crossing and how would you prevent it?
Sharks like in Jaws!
What about sharknado? Scary
The worst thing that could happen is you discover your French girlfriend is really from Quebec.... no really, what worries me is collision with partially submerged object.... because there really is no prevention....
Complacency kills so I think the worst thing that could happen is getting complacent. I do not think you will have that problem. I think the most likely thing you will see is the potential for chaffing of a halyard or sheet that subsequentialy lets go resulting in the sails flailing about until you wrangle them down. You guys have made it to the islands. When you get around to it please let us know how things went vis-a-vis your risk assessment for the trip.
Friends just went through this scenario, out of respect I won't go into details but get a body bag from Amazon, they're surprisingly cheap, very compact and if you get one with handles can even be used as a stretcher for the injured or to help another cruiser in need. Additionally, since they must be waterproof, you might be able to rig one as a collision mat long enough to limp to shore. Being forced to source a body bag in the middle of a long crossing during a tragedy is not something you want to attempt on the high seas, especially if now shorthanded, it can lead to other souls being lost. I compliment you on your other points of preparation. Also, there's a few videos of using a series drogue, or sea anchor, which you should have anyway, that can be rigged to vector direction if you lose rudder
your 2 biggest fears - autopilot and rudder - have the same solution, wind vane with emergency rudder accessory. Hydrovane and Monitor for example...
HydroVane. Yup. Zero power-use crewmember AND backup stand-alone rudder.
Our rudder broke between Tonga and Fiji. The weld inside the rudder that held the metal plate to the rudder-post failed, so the rudder was still there but we couldn't control it at all. We tried lots of things - a bridle to control the rudder, trailing lines to steer, a spinnaker pole to steer. None of them were much good - might be better on a boat with a different underwater profile giving more directional stability than a fin-and-spade. This all happened on a friend's boat that I was crewing on.
You're wrong to say that you can't have a spare rudder, you have just chosen not to have one. My boat has a whole spare rudder in the form of a Hydrovane. It also solves the problem of what to do if you can't use the electric autopilot due to power loss/lack of ability to charge the batteries/electrical failure/autopilot system failure. On our journey across Biscay from Cornwall to A Coruña last July we discovered after 1 day that our (old) 540Ah house batteries were kaput and only holding about 50Ah, so we just stopped using the autopilot and switched to the Hydrovane - the batteries were then only running the chartplotter, lights (all LED), AIS, fridge and VHF. With 350Ah of solar on board we were fine.
Good coverage. I don't worry about our rudder, we have another one, but you could bolt the dunny door to a spinnaker pole. I'm thinking the replacement stay is a top idea. I'm thinking it would be good to install it already and tape it or hot glue it to the mast, because it's not likely to be nice and calm to be climbing up the mast especially if you are already missing a stay.
Great information, for people preparing for a long crossing, can use this as a how to prepare video. Glad to see your ready for almost anything.
I think this episode was very informative ....like
Dealing with one of those situation you listed is no big deal if you're prepared. you rarely find yourself in trouble when only one of those happens idependently.
Unfortunately, when bad things happen, they come in batches. One leading to another and they end up piling up, until you find yourself up shit creek without a paddle.
That's a totally different ball game.
Alien abduction needs to be on the list otherwise 2 thumbs up!
What about no wind and running out of wine!
Since you guys are over the Caribbean, hit me up if you come over the DR. There's a lot to see over here and I'd love to show you guys around.
Cheers!
Hello again from sailorbear ;) dont loose your home (ship) use if rudder is lost an drifting ancor and se where the waves vill bring you it will ceep your fore in the direction of the waves but you will going with the waves :)
Couldn't an electric storm knockout all electronics.
The only time you abandon ship is when you need to step up into your life raft ( never ,,,,NERVER ,,, step down into your life raft !!! ) loosing the ruder is bad but if you boat is afloat it can still be controlled ,,, they make some wind gains that are also secondary rudders
When on my comp crew course our instructor was telling us about the tragic 1979 Fastnet race; 14 boats abandoned with many lives lost, but once the weather cleared they found only 5 of the 14 abandoned had actually sunk and the crews would have done much better if they had stayed on there respective boats (minus the 5). As you said; ALWAYS STEP *UP* INTO THE LIFE RAFT!
running out of packets of pringles would be bad
Total electrical Failure.
Ryan: "No big Deal"
Sophie: "No more Hairdryer? Turn around, I am not leaving ..."
:)
that one crossed my mind too😁
OMG you forgot the main reason: what if you dont love each other anymore????
See: man overboard.
Hydrovane!
Nice! I've been looking for a medical kit that would cover us on passages... Can u share yours with me?
I will! I have a video in the works about our med kit and how to build one :) stay tune! /Sophie
Hey there, have you watched Sailing Svea, a lovely couple from Duved in Northern Sweden, who handsteered from Kap Verde to the Carrabean (this year) because their autopilot broke and they decided to go anyway instead of not getting there at all. Talk about Viking Powrer. Just have to love their stamina and determination. But then again, they are also from the region of Jämtland , and we just don`t give up. Love to watch your sailing adventures. Wish you the best of times.
Losing autopilot is not a disaster on a boat with two crew. A disaster would be for a singlehanded. But there have been cases where singlehanded sailors managed to carry on by sailing through out the day by hand steering or using other ways of trying to keep the boat on course and sleep some hours at night while the boat was adrift. It would always be easier to keep a course on a boat if the boat is a long keeled boat. A bad scenario is losing the rudder.
I take so many notes watching your videos. Thanks guys.
Get a Monitor Windvane...we have a Raymarine autopilot which has never let us down, but we probably use our Monitor Windvane the most often for Ocean passages. -Rebecca
Yep...I feel bad for your mom too. Hope she doesn’t watch. -Rebecca on SV Brick House
I prefer my sushi batter dipped and Southern fried.
Why abandon ship without a rudder (unless you meant abandonning after rescue) ? Staying on the mainship is the safest way to survive.
Risks in getting out of bed and commuting to DC every day. Probably much greater risk than sailing, IF somebody is as prepared as you two!!!
Exactly!!! I was completely smashed up 1 kilometre from my house while riding around a traffic island at 20 kilometres an hour. 12 days hospital, punctured lung, 27 broken bones, 5 operations a year off work.. If only I had been doing something simple like sailing the Atlantic, instead of commuting to work!
Not a single word regarding Bryan, and his recovery. He just stood there, unable to get a word in edgewise.
Great video guys. Likelihood x Severity = Risk. Forgot to show you our mods to the keel in Almerimar. Ours is bolted back to the sub-frame of the boat not just the skin. 25mm x 250mm bolts with 60mm spreader plates. With 12mm plate ss formers and webs. We will have to send you some pics. Sail Safe guys. Ant, Cid and the pooch crew.
Great video. Thank you very much. And Ryan seems to become much more comfortable being in front of the camera. :-D
Engulfed by a whale ,
Punished by Neptune ,
Murdered by the crew ,
Tsunamis ...................................
Start praying !!!!!!!! Hahahaha
You forgot the Bermuda Triangle. It could grow.
Great video! Love the illustrations - what program did you use? Cheers!
Bonjour le R&S family..
apart from all advertising...
une petite info en français. (sorry)
Pour ce qui est d'une balise AIS de secours.. il existe des balises "pêche" "fishing buoy". Vous pouvez programmer votre numéro AIS avec une appellation style MOB1 .. MOB2 (Man OverBoard) ou "SOSMOB", autonomie 240 heures .. elle est (sont) fixés sur les bouées filets de pêche normalement.
*.*.*.
For an emergency AIS beacon .. there are "fishing buoy" beacons. You can program your AIS number with a style designation MOB1 .. MOB2 (Man OverBoard) or "SOSMOB" and or the name of the boat .. (have a look on Matsutec HAB150 or HAB150S (for SOS button), autonomy 240 hours .. it is (are) fixed on the fishing net buoys normally.
Just fix it on a float pole that you throw as soon as there is a problem .. it's easier to look for a MOB with a beacon / flash lamp on a screen than with a small flash lamp.
Maybe not very much in the regulations but for a hundred dollars ..!?
Sensible video and always good to work through disaster scenarios, hope it never happens, but plan for the worst.
Apparently according to your friends back in the Spanish Marina (Almerimar) #3 would be a total disaster.
ruclips.net/video/rXNK4zPyFOU/видео.html
Sophie is getting quite a reputation as a great cook apparently, and think you are missed back there!
Take a look ar sailing Hilma.. they läst there rudder.
You guys did a nice job of risk assessment. You didn't say these exact words (Probability of Occurrence and Consequence of Occurrence), but you went through the thought process. Sweet. I like the way you guys think.
Pretty good checklist. Personally the only one that scares me is keel failure, because you may get trapped (high chance), everything else you can probably do the SOS via satellite and get a C-130 plane out to you from either coast within 8 hours. But Cheeki Rafiki, a Beneteau 40 that had keel fail and all souls were lost at sea gives me nightmares.
As a sorta nerd, I think the worst thing is not having tea or coffee. How would you relax? Oh yes, I would never worry about refrigeration, I would have stocked up with nothing but cans and MRE’s. 👍🙂
Great show, basically back ups for everything. I have heard of a wind vane autopilot that could be an autopilot back up and I remember some one loosing their rudder and made it back use the wind vane autopilot rudder. Something that might need more research on a tillerless boat.
Loss of cooking, ie, can heat food. Suggest a black plastic (or similar) bag and place in the sun. About an hour should give you nice warm food. Doubt it will cook something raw, but until you try, you won't know.
This was a very good episode! Well done, you did well!
Abandon ship due to rudder ? Why ? Is the boat sinking? I think is extreme, and most of the boats are found floating around several weeks later...
In your discussion about loss of rudder you said that drogue steering doesn't work. Have you ever seen this write up and video? The test was done a Swan 44 which has a very similar you Polar Seal. They found that the key to control was to attach the steering bridle to blocks at midships so that the pull on the line did not provide any directional stability to the rear of the boat. bermudarace.com/emergency-steering-drogue-new-approach/
If you loose a rudder, you can trail a drogue on a bridle and move it from one side to the other. Even a sailbag can work as a drogue in an emergency. You can also steer by trimming your sails which is a lot more work, but manageable.
Haha! We shot a very similar video just the other day 😅 So here’s to say, we didn’t steal the idea, when it goes live in a few months. Great minds think alike 😁 X
Those preparing be sure to watch both...
This is the first video I’ve watched where you talk about all the risks - as always so interesting!
in a Buenos Aires to Rio de Janeiro regatta, the diesel tank broke, and 200 litres of diesel went loose. Take a look to the tank, !!!!
Excellent approach to hazard identification and management. Auto pilot spares hopefully will ensure that doesn't happen. Rudder failure might just mean no steerage at times and possibly some steerage at other more favorable times. I'd only abandon ship with rudder failure if the boat was also on fire and sinking. You are well prepared. Fair winds and safe travels.
David
Busselton West Australia
you can still sail w/o a rudder. i would not abanden ship at this point, it's easier for any rescue ships/hellicopter to find you if you stay put.
People have rigged up makeshift rudders out of all kinds of stuff
@@MrRourk - have you tried it? I have and it was rubbish on a boat with very little directional stability (fin and spade underwater profile)
@@charliepank528 sure a lot more comfortable than a life raft.
IIRC Beneteau is infamous for using brass seacocks, instead of bronze. Leading to surprise failures in 5-10 years. Are yours?
All great points and you guys seem to have done some pretty good preparation. Just curious, I really like the idea of wind vanes/hydra vanes, the reason is that not only do you have an energy efficient means of steering but you also have a second rudder. What I don't know is if there is an option for modern boats that have swim platforms?
Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Good strategy.
Get a copy of "Shrimpy" by Shane Acton. He sailed round the world on a 17 foot Caprice. His list would have been, "No. 1, run out of cigarettes. That's it."
Serge Testa knows all about fire on boats. He circumnavigated on a 12 foot boat and set it on fire twice. 500 days of fun!
Where is the link to buy one of those back-up battery things?
Great touch of reality right there. Thank you for putting it out there.
You can steer the boat with the sails just the way you would steer a windsurfer. Learn how to sail a windsurfer and then you'll feel a LOT more confidant sailing. For example, when you want to tack, just pull all the sails in until the boat comes up into the wind, starting with the jib. You can backwind the jib to push the boat to the other tack if necessary to encourage the boat to "come about" and then gradually let the sails out on the other side as desired. In windsurfing, all you have is a sail to steer.
Ability to do this depends a lot on rig and underwater profile of boat
Great episode!
You guys are the most prepared safety conscience sailors I've seen on You Tube and I admire your realistic view of an Atlantic Crossing!!
I would not abandon ship due to rudder failure. The only reason to leave the safety of your vessel is if it sinks from beneath you!
Or fire.... but I agree with you. The life raft is an absolutely miserable place to spend any time even on flat seas. Far too many boats have been found still floating without their crew while the crew perished in life rafts. I always say the only way I'm getting into my life raft is if I have to step up to get into it from my boat.
Great episode guys. I like how you go over many areas that could be a serious problem if no plans are made ahead of time. Thanks for sharing.
Folks, if you are going to keep going after the Caribbean:
1) Celestial Navigation - one good sextant (metal), one fantastic plastic - good battery or mechanical chronograph watches, clock, at least two - calculator would be nice, but not a necessity - paper charts.
2) Windvane - type with auxiliary rudder - emergency steering gear - some operable with cheap tiller pilot - extra third mate.
3) Tie the dyneema emergency stay on before crossing, flip around spreader tip and tie off to a mast/deck cleat/fitting, to keep it from banging. Do this, BEFORE LEAVING, because when the $#!] hits the fan you most likely do not have the time, or the sea state, to go up the mast to attach it. You may only have time to rig the bottom, to keep the mast up. If in doubt rig one Port one Starboard.
Everything else you have pretty well covered.
Cheers
1) These days with smart phones having charts, you have far more redundancy without the sextant/watches... the most likely cause of a loss of navigation instruments is a lightning strike so putting the phones in the microwave/oven (not turned on of course) or other metal box upon seeing the first signs of a thunderstorm is far better protection. Sextants are useless in cloudy weather also. The entire world relies on GPS and there are multiple networks that our phones and nav instruments can connect to so lots of redundancy there.
2) Not all boats can fit a wind vane... far cheaper to buy a second autopilot drive anyway.
3) You don't need to do that as you already have lots of halyards that go to the top of the mast... use one of those to tie it off until you can replace the stay with Dynema. If you lose a stay, the VERY first thing you should be doing anyway is easing the sheets and dropping and/or rolling up the sails completely to immediately relieve the pressure on the mast. One of those halyards will be plenty strong enough to keep the mast up in any conditions while you rig the replacement stay.
Preventive maintenance is key. This is where the aviator in you comes in handy.
Ryan, Using your risk model when do pyrotechnic flares start to increase the risk. I.e. as you decrease the overall risk by adding other (modern) means at what point is the risk of fire or injury from pryotechnics a contributory factor in increasing overall risk.
This is a wonderful question. When i was in the airforce i laughed when we did flare training as we had all kinds of safety kit on. I really dont know the true risk of accidental ignition of flares but i do know training is key so you dont fire a parashot flare into your crotch while your boat is sinking. Most people buy flares, as with most safety kit without knowing why they have it or how to use it... only that they should have it. Ryan
great video! Good stuff!
Really well thought out. Thanks for getting people to think about the real stuff
Hi Ryan and Sophie, do you use AIS?
"increase the suck" love that phrase
Your best video yet. Well done.
Sometimes tough stuff. Appreciate the time you take to do these.
And what about being struck by lightning ? It's one of our biggest fears, mostly because the consequences are quite unpredictable... And it seems that there is no real/perfect solution for this catastrophe scenario (except having a metal hull) !
Thanks for this very reassuring video guys ;)
Love your Video's :)
To many blogs
Let's not go!
If you loose your rudder don't get into a little life raft, try swimming to land it's faster! What if a plane crashes into you? Two or three spools of heavy fishing line Lots of lures, and a hand water maker! Think of the story IF after ten months lost at sea!
🤙🏼
:)
Not only very interesting and funny done but with great Solutions according to your own situation. Some of your faces and speeches you both give, make me allways laugh a lot. You are a very sympathic couple. In regard of an emergency Rudder, I have rigged at the stern a kind of a strong Inox Plate, with a cutout to insert a piece of Strong Inox pipe. The Plate is attached to the Stern and that way I can take my solid spezial oak brum stick, lead it thru and bolt, again with a round Inox tube, the rudderplate into it. With fittings I can lead it into the cockpit. Works very well but you cannot steer a straight line. I will order such an emergency steering for my new Pacific Windvane. I know folks who left a new 40ft Sailboat in the middle of the pacific. The boat is still under way as she has been seen but not contacted at the time. Again thank you for making me smile and this with excellent information too. Cheers Andy
Hi there, first of all I would like to thank you all for sharing this biggest concerns, but yes, losing the ruder is very bad, however, still at the shore.... you can provide an extra ruder, in Brazil is called "ruder of fortune".
Hi both, Thanks for the video. I think we should the probability consider. It's more dangerous in normal traffic. Autopilot ?ail, use a windpilot as others say. Think or better read the old books. In the 60th they didn't have windpilots and of course no electrical autopilots. They used the "trade wind sails", found a way to connect them to the wheel or tiller and got in this way a kind of an autopilot. Loosing the rudder is mostly not only loosing the rudder baut a big hole in the hull. If not you got good luck and I'm sure you will find a solution. Loosing the mast is a disaster as loosing the hull (because of some collision). Getting hurt is a disaster as well and MoB is the worst thing, as you told. You made the first Ocean already. So you got the experience that a lot of "could happens" are very, very seldom.
Fair winds
Tom
Nicely done. A couple of additional points for you... The addition of hydrovane type steering would address both of your prime concerns of loss of autohelm and loss of rudder. This would also help with reduced electrical draw so will reduce the need to run the engine as often and save big time precious power as autohelms are hugely power hungry. Also, you did not mention if you have a life raft on board for the ultimate abandon ship scenario.
Thanks and great overview of risks!
a serious risk I could add is a lightning strike: 2 problems occur:
1. No electricity anymore as all electrical components are fried. (so no autopilot, navigation, phones - unless stored in the oven, etcetera)
2. Lightning may cause holes in the hull (as it tries to escape)
Lightning happens more often on the return passage from the Caribbean to Europe in May or June...
Two Items: (1) you make terrific argument for a wind vane (2) take a look at the video on the Galerider web site to see how to steer a boat with no rudder. It is very informative. Happy sailing!
a good risk analysis exercise....re a holed hull try carryinh rubber matting...place this on the water pressure side to keep in place and if possible at all have it tie round the hull. my 2 cents worth...it happened and i did this only the vessel was stationary.
That is probably one of the best, most informative list of preparations before a long voyage that I have seen on any RUclips channel. Well done
I can relate to “medical emergency at sea”. Had a close call myself few months ago, luckily happened while at home and hospital was short ambulance ride away. Had emergency surgery, now I’m missing some colon, but I’m still rolling😜
Part of the black art of boat design, is hull and sail plan balance. I have had the rare pleasure to sail on a very well balanced boat, that could maintain most points of sail with no one on the helm (in good weather) once we trimmed the sails properly. It helped that the owner had years of practice getting things right!
One or two abandon ship bags/containers with essentials in handy positions is a final step in being prepared, you two seem to have it well in hand- don't worry Mom. Fair winds!
Total prepper on crossing the ocean checklist. Good idea to have a plan for when sh^t goes sideways. Thanks for sharing!
Great video! Not many talk about this. But we are glad to know you made it safely across!
Your hair are allways sooooo beautyful!!! How you can do it, on a ship? We love your videos!
At eight minutes and forty seconds, where did you learn that sign? I see it a lot, it means distress...right?
Excellent discussion. Lose your rudder? Don't abandon ship! See s/v Hilma and s/v Zero. Ultimately they balanced the sails to go the direction they needed to go and in Hilma's case made a temp rudder.
Hi bill, we actually sailed on passage with a guy who lost his rudder during his yachtmaster exam. After listening to him i fail to see how anyone could safely control a boat through an ocean with no rudder. You could drag warps and go with the current but the ride would be very bad i do believe. Ryan
@@RyanSophieSailing It would be MUCH worse in a life raft....
@@RyanSophieSailing Would you normally jump from your plane if you lost the engine? Stay in the boat, even if you can't steer, you are far better of than any other option when you are alone at sea. ok maybe in an f16 you might jump
@@kaakeith3772 I flew A-6s (two engine) and A-4s (single engine). Lose one on the A-6 not that big of a deal.
Lose one on the A-4 and it's time to hit the silk.
Yay Brian 2.0 makes, his debut. By the way it was informative video.
Mean green alternator company beg them to make a marine version they make high output alternators for automotive just needs spark preventer to marine use
You folks are to cool
the coolest!
For such a serious topic, I sure laughed a lot. Well done!
It would have been interesting to know your thoughts about lightning and what preparation you had planned.
We already have our coffin drape on board. Handy for one of your scenarios.
On my Coastal Skipper course we did an exercise steering the boat under sail without using the rudder. We managed to tack the boat without the rudder.
brilliant
hope you had a good transit
In a sailboat race from Miami to Nassau. Wind blowing out of the north at high 30’s, low to mid 40’s. Waves in the Gulf Stream were stacked up by the N winds to constant 20+ feet. About 50 miles from Miami as I was taking my turn on the helm. The tiller, which had been real heavy, suddenly went slack. I.E., no way to steer. We dropped sails until we could figure out what happened. A quick inspection showed the 2.5” stainless steel rudder post had broken. After talking we decided to put a triple reef in the main and put the storm jib up. By manipulating them we were able to get the boat headed west at about 1-2 knots. Due to stream we were headed N at 4+ knots. During all this I called the Coast Guard and they finally found us a couple hours later and towed us in. Not a pleassent experience to say the least. Wishing you gentle breezes and calm seas!!
Scott .. thanks for this real world story. May i ask your view on"balancing the sails for steering". It seemed to work short term but if i were to say to you... you need to do that for 1300nm what would your thoughts be... possible with a two person crew? Other options? Ryan
@@RyanSophieSailing Balancing sails is possible but I would think very tiring - I reckon impossible for 1300nm and it must have been tough for Scott for a couple of hours ! I've experimented myself many years ago in a Westerly 22 by just letting the tiller go and adjusting the sails - I'd thought it should be theoretically possible given the weather helm and lee helm you get if the sails aren't trimmed right, but it needs lots of continuous adjustments. Best option I reckon would be a pole with a board on the end similar to what you see in Italian gondola's, etc. Not sure about windvane/hydrovane that others mention, as I've never used one. Take a look at this video though which might be useful : ruclips.net/video/99KSZ3mEoKQ/видео.html
For loss of rudder you need to read up on balancing your sails to steer the boat. For potential hull compromise you should have ‘bungs’ for seacock and other holes, you should also have a supply of underwater epoxy. Know for any hull breach the location of towels to slow the flow of water so Epoxy maybe applied. I heard abandoned ship a lot in this video, that is the very last option and should not be done just because of a failure as the boat itself is better than a life raft, unless it’s under water. By the way if you were to lose your rig the first decision that needs to be made is does it need to be cut away to protect the hulls integrity or do you have the option to try preserving the rig keeping in mind if it is impacting the hull it needs to be cut away.
Hi ya mon,
I do believe the only time we ever discussed abandoning ship was. A. In the event that we can not control the boat... though it was not discribed how we would go about this and i can assure you it would not be in a life raft. B. Keel failure or c. Catastrophic hull breach.
A lit of people have wrote in tue event of a rudder loss all you need to do is balance the sails or run a drogue.... i find this extremely hard to believe an ocean setting. In falt water, coastal... maybe. The waves motion will change the angle of attack too often for balance sail to truly steer the boat.
Putting out a drogue and drifting with the currents is an option but then food and water become an issue.
Ryan
@@RyanSophieSailing regardless of your position on steering, I do hope you have a drogue, that in itself could afford you some calm to allow you to regroup and come up with a plan and or make repairs when heaving to is not an option
By far the best episode so far! Good winds to you guys! :-)
we loved it!
Aw thanks guys!
I couldn’t think of anything else. Glad you’ll be tethered! Good luck on the crossing!
Out of topics. Shame..............