I hope the folks who watch your videos realize how challenging and time-consuming it is to set up film and edit a test like this. As a shooter in the US, I don’t often think about the challenges of sub 12 shooting. For non-sub 12 shooters, this video very clearly explains where the idea that .177 is flatter shooting than .22 comes from. I enjoy when you post new content, thank you for taking the time to put these videos together.
Thanks Paul. That's very kind of you to take the time to say so. They do indeed take a long time film - always much longer than I allow for - and even more time to edit. Thanks for watching. Rich.
@@airgunextra Paul I second your comment and Richard and your team I thank you for your time and effort Great show 🎩off to you 👍 👍 👍 😜 🏴 🦄 🎣 😁 🤞 ✌️
I agree. Well said. Although the .177 is flatter shooting for target work and less hold over at range, those of us here in the UK tend to lean towards .22 for pest control. (Probably not out to longer ranges). We get ourselves a Firearms license if we need to do a lot or as a profession and use good old powder burners in that case. Most sub 12ftlb weapons are used for sports and fun here and as of yet arent restricted too much, shotguns for feathered pest and sports are quite common here but rim and centre fire require quite a process to get through but is more common than some think. The age old question still remains of which is better though...
Another well done film. Thank you for your continued education. I really like my hw80 in .177. I was surprised to be able to stop a pest at almost 80 yards. Great round.
My R10 .22 is set zero at 35 yds, it is spot on at 35 and 50 yards. I find this to be ideal in the field and only need to make small adjustments for targets that are closer or a little further.
Great point! Most of U.S. have the advantage of about double the 12 ftlbs used in this excellent tutorial. Always important to know your drops, especially for ensuring humane kills if hunting.
Agreed. In the US it might be more helpful with a fixed FPS instead of fixed FPE. Then again, even here realizing those trajectory differences would be difficult for the average airgunner outside of ballistics calculators.
Good video thanks Richard i have always favored the .177 after owning a hw77 in the eighties all my friends had 22 but couldn't hit anything past 40 meters some didn't even get that far lol ! How ever i was hitting holes through coke cans out to 60 meters with a duplex scope to
@@airgunextra Also have known this for years,over the length 100 miters,the thin bullet runs strait,the bigger the bullets gets like a curve,bigger and bigger,i had my Stroke understand it all just say it what i mean thanks (y)
It depends what you're shooting. The .22 has a higher trajectory but it will still deliver more energy to your target/quarry than a .177 at any give range, especially as you stretch it out a bit.
Thanks for all of your hard work doing this test. As a point of interest, here is a suggestion. Instead of arranging your distance targets horizontally, if you draw them, say left to right, then after the test you can connect the groups and get an image of the trajectory of the pellet.
Awesome that you found what you were looking for. But I'm wondering if that is UK sub 12 or FAC 30 fbt you compare it to? Because there are many countries where there are no limits on power restrictions. And if there are no restrictions would you still prefer .177? It's no attack just genuinely intereste. Either way hope you still like airgun shooting like the rest of us.
So glad I chose a .177 for my hunting for the reasons shown in this very useful video (thank you). Most of my hunting is done between 15yds to 30yds. With the zero at 21yds I can aim dead on between 15yds and 25yds and only a half and inch hold over at 30yds one inch at 35yds and two inches at 40yds. No hold under required. A flatter trajectory for me is much easier to work with.
There has to be hold under at some point, if you are 5yds from a gopher...you need to aim low, not dead on. Same for shooting up or down hill, hold a tad low depending on distance. I do agree, a powerful .177 is deadly because it is so flat shooting! All the best, cheers...
I always used.22 up until my mid fifties .I saw a chap on you, tube Mr N Allen which made me think outside the box l have now been shooting.117 since on the odd occasion.22 i do hunting and go out as far as 50m, Pellets of choice is.177AA 8.44-4.52 using sub 12f good placed pellet will always get the result the sweet spot is far better in.177 in my opinion.
I agree with you. I've been shooting 40 years: In the past I always preferred .22 but now I've totally changed my opinion. The accuracy of a good 177 calibre PCP is unrivalled.
Thanks for watching Alan. Yes, .20 cal does seem like a good compromise, assuming you can get a pellet your rifle likes, and plenty of them. Fortunately the HW97, like most HWs, doesn't seem to be pellet fussy.
Love your videos that was very useful. Very informational, and I've been doing field and target for about a year and 1/2 now and I love it. I have all my targets. Set up 10,12 1/2, 15,18, 20, And five yard increments after that out to 55. And it works great. Thank you for your videos.
Verry clear and good video 👍👌. Log time ago I had a .22 rifle And noticed the big bullet drop. Now I own 2 .177 rifles. And I noticed way les bullet/pellet drop. Flatter shooting and higher velocity. Very nice video 👍👌
Fantastic video! I couldn’t decide whether I should order my new Benjamin NP XL in .177 or .22 caliber. You have helped me make up my mind most splendidly. I just ordered the .177. I’m not going to be doing much hunting, if any. I’m laughing at our language differences. You use meters and then just when I thought you were going to use centimeters from the aim point, you come out with inches. Hilarious! And very fun. Kudos, also, for referring to cardboard as card. Why on earth we would throw in the word board, I have no idea. It’s not a board. It’s just a card. I will celebrate this widely. I don’t know if many folks realize it, but the very reason we broke off from British rule is because the BRITs limited foot pounds to 12. Apparently, the King thought it was more fitting because that’s how many apostles Jesus had. And we were all like, “screw that! This means war!“ And because of that reason, I am enjoying 17 inches of rain in the first six days of December in the state of Oregon. Jolly good, old fellow. Pip-pip, cheerio, and all that rot!
Thanks Richard, i am about to buy another rifle and was leaning toward .22 (my Walther LGU is .177) I have always thought .177 was the way to go but i was tempted just to have something different. The most interesting thing for me was the tightness of the .177 groups at distance I will certainly go for .177 now Thank you for a very informative and useful video
Proved what I've always thought in sub 12 ft/lb .... for target shooting, pest control at differing distances and general shooting .177 is king. You get 1500 shots in .177 for the price of 1000 in .22 as well! For hide shooting at one known and zeroed distance, eg a squirrel feeder .22 might find favour. At 20lb/ft plus powers .22 is best. Thank you for this programme.
Hello Richard. That was a super video concerning pellet size and distance, and extremely rellevant to todays .airgun shooters. Yes, very very good, and thankyou
The test demonstrates the importance of using a good range finder. I zero at 23 yards as this allows me to take quick opportunistic shots out to 25 yards. Beyond that I have time to take an accurate measurement using a range finder. I use chairgun to get the optimal zero based on speed of the pellet and height of the scope. Looking at the grouping of the 0.22 I suspect that the barrel does not like 5.52.
Thanks Ratty. You're right. As I said in the video, none of the groups were great, but I wasn't setting out to do an accuracy test but to demonstrate the extent of drop off. Running backwards and forwards with that target board didn't help either! I tend to use the R-10 at around 20 metres almost exclusively for rats and squirrels and the 5.52 AA are awesome. Thanks for watching! Rich.
Because the pellets are twice the weight of an .177. The most import thing is accuracy. The extra impact of a .22 will not compensate for a misplaced shot...Thanks for watching.
@@airgunextra I feel like for 12 foot pound if you are taking headshots only up to maximum 40 yards 177 is the only sensible choice. Perhaps a squirrels head will need more energy retained at range for a clean kill…
@@thevalleyofdisappointment Personally I restrict myself to 30 metres with a .22 at 12 ft/lbs, and 40 metres with a .177. It has less to do with retained energy for me and more about my accuracy and the flatter trajectory of .177.
Like it, loved this video. Our boys are the best here in the u.k at safety and accuracy. 12ft pounds here explained brilliantly and i learnt alot from it. Thanks.
Be the same, then slower .22 will get moved more by the wind. It's all to do with how long the bullet is in flight, longer flight time, more movement, whether it's gravity or wind working on it.
Looking at buying a decent rifle, because my old man can get me into his shooting club, I was going to get .22 this changed my mind, and in further discussions on the topic I will be showing or sourcing this video. Best video on the topic I’ve found,and I’ve been looking a while.
It would've been helpful to say what the mil dot holdover would've been as you looked through your scope, you only briefly mentioned that at 20mtrs on the .22
Wow - thankyou - i just ordered a .177 and was starting to doubt my choice - now after watching this i think i made the right choice - you need to be able to hit the target first before you can kill it
I'm glad we could reassure you Andrew! You're absolutely right that job number 1 is to be accurate regardless of calibre. I tend to use .22 for rats, feral pigeons and squirrels simply because most of the time I am shooting than at 10 - 20m. But for rabbits out to 40m I much prefer .177. Thanks for watching.
@@SethMcClaine 22 has a greater mass and would require greater speed than the 177 to achieve the same flat trajectory, it would also put the gun over the 12 ftib limit.
@@BoggWeasel exactly... whats the point of posting a video of comparing the trajectory of projectiles that aren't moving at comparable speeds? This is a scaled experiment of something moving at 1000fps vs something not moving... of course the item that is moving is going to have a higher trajectory.
@@SethMcClaine There is a common held myth that the 22 is superior than the 177 for hunting in every way and this proves that it ain't necessarily so. Shot placement is everything and with a faster, flatter trajectory at distance, less adjustment is required by the 177 to be on target than the 22 to achieve an accurate shot. A 12ftlb 177 will give you a flatter straight shot than a 12ftlb 22, the 177 may not hit as hard but if it's on target it will do the job.
I have just been watching your 12ft/lbs vs. 30ft/lbs video and thought wouldn't it be great if you did the same for .177 Vs .22. Then clicked the Show More text and low and behold my prayers were answered with the link to this video. :) Thank you very much for taking the time to put together this comprehensive well put together video. For many years I had always gone for sub 12ft lbs (non FAC) .22, but changed over to .177 about 18 months or so ago for the flatter trajectory over various ranges. This just confirms my decision to switch, I still have an Air Arms Galahad sub 12ft lbs in .22 , but it doesn't get much use now. Not that the current covid-19 restrictions helps matters.
Great minds think alike David! I use .177 for most of my 12 ft/lbs hunting, but .22 still has a place especially when shooting over known ranges such as a squirrel feeder or rat shooting. The Galahad is a cracking rifle. Let's hope you get to blow the dust off it soon! Thanks for watching.
I did a similar thing yesterday and found my rifle and pellets were the same POI at 20m & 30m and dropped by 1/2 a mil dot at 40m didn’t go out to 50m cos I never hunt that far and just wanted to figure out holdover on new rifle and sight
This exercise has given me a lot of valuable information, for these calibers at these ranges at these caliber rifles. Thank you Richard, speaking of exercise, you surely did get a fair bit for this video, and for that I thank you too.
I have a HW35 2.2 and will now be looking for the lighter grain pellets just to compensate for a flatter curve which I think should make it more accurate - thanks for the video I think I will keep a lookout for a good 177 in future though.
I’m just now getting back into air rifles after being away from them for about 17 years. I just bought a Gamo Wildcat whisper 177 and I was tempted to return it and get a 22 since I haven’t opened the box yet. I’m happy I watched this because I’m deciding to keep it now. I’ll get a 22 a little later
@@airgunextra I just noticed my comment was 13 days ago. Since this comment, I have the Gamo 177, I bought a Crosman 1322 with upgrades, and now I’m waiting on a Crosman Vantage .22. Cal that’s in the mail lol.
.177 for me all day. I do like the thump of the .22 though, as long as a well placed shot is fired on both size pellets. Excellent demonstration. Thank you for sharing.
Nice demonstration...in hindsight maybe the camera that was zoomed in on the cardboard target, could of been moved back much further to allow a better view of the impact points. Other than that a great video.
If you typically shoot at closer ranges and in the same locations eg removing rats from your garden or feral pigeon from the same roosting spots in a barn etc the thump and lower penetration of .22 is a good choice. Energy transfer to the pellet from the expanding air as it travels down the barrel happens more efficiently in the larger calibre, so all other things being equal, a PCP in .22 has a higher number of shots per fill and is slightly quieter. At sub 12ftlb the flatter trajectory of .177 being more forgiving in terms of shot placement at longer range and different distances IS a good argument for using the smaller calibre in general. The best answer I can come up with is to own both.
Yes… I’ve used my .177 to take out garden rats and squirrels to great effect with no problem, BUT I’m also getting a .22 mag loaded s410 as I think it’s better if you happen to miss the kill zone should the prey move as you’ve pulled the trigger as the extra power will have a better chance at doing its job and the reload option is a must for any finish up shots. Having your area mapped out for distance with a .22 is the way to go I think.
@@mrpickles3479 I own both calibres but tend to use .22, partly because I learned with a .22 BSA springer to begin with and I like the idea that energy is being transferred to the larger pellet more efficiently. The bigger pellets retain energy downrange a bit better and give more blunt trauma on impact. Shooting a sub 12ftlb .22 accurately at different ranges is more of a challenge compared with .177 but I still like launching the larger bits of lead.
That is the conclusion I too came to. I use a .22 crosman 1322 for anything withing 10 yards, .177 1250FPS Gamo for everything else. You can always increase the grain from 5 to 10 for a .177 if you want more thump.
The JSB exact 7.87gr is just right for my 1377 scoped. 1322 would be good for pests close range. But so is the 1377.... One of each would be fun. A 22 needs more power, like a good break barrel.
Worth mentioning the .22 group at 50m was poor in comparison to the .177 in addition to the huge drop off. It really opened up. Perhaps the Weirauch grouped superiority to the BSA? I use a .177 Daystate wolverine r and every pellet goes through the same hole UP to 30 metres. Beyond that things get interesting. Excellent video.
Perfectly and simply explained,, as long as you adjust with hold under or hold over,, none of this rubbish technical stuff,hahaha I’ve got the HW97K.22 what a rifle!, great video👍👍👍
Thanks Andy. I'm with you - keep it simple! By the way, we did a review of the HW97K here: ruclips.net/video/4Dm2FsmMjic/видео.html. Please let us know if our findings agree with yours...
@@airgunextra hi ,yeh I watched ur vid yesterday using the hw97kt ,,,bang on with ur view on it,,,, when I first purchased the rifle I started using the H&N field target but wasn’t too accurate so switched the the Diablo field,,,, but now I’ve put a thousand or so through the barrel I’ve switched back to the H&N ,,and they are seriously pellet on pellet,,, what have your subscribers said preference of pellet in .22 with the HW97K??
@@andyday4724 Hi Andy. I used AA Diabolo Field pellets, but that's only because I tend to use them in just about everything! I think you can't go wrong with AADF, H&N or JSB. I do find 4.52 / 4.52 the best though. I tested some H&N lead free pellets for Airgun Shooter a while back. I have to admit that I wasn't expecting much, but they grouped really well. Not sure what they'd be like in the wind though.
If you used heavier 177 pellets and lighter 22 pellets so they where similar. Results would have been a lot closer I thought this was about impact. Not just accurately Mmmmm I’m not convinced a lighter 22 pellet wouldn’t sort this out but loved the vid. But still think 177 for targets And 22 for hunting. Up to 30 yards anyway. But hey what do I know.
One point, you were using a 16gr pellet so at 40 it's going to drop by a few inches, but if you chance to 13gr Falcon that is going to produce a much flatter trajectory and RWS hobby 11gr are more or less flat shooting out to 40 yards, and if you use a 10.5gr Bisley in the. 177 at 40 yards you are going to experience pellet drop so it's not all dome and cloom for the 22 calibre and the. 177 has its real faults 👍
Hi Neil. You are of course right that lighter .22 pellets will drop less, and heavier .177 more. But the point is that .22 fly slower with more pronounced trajectory than .177. I used 8.4 and 16 grain as they seem fairly typical for the weight of pellets most people use. Thanks for watching...
@Alpha Militaria That's why it's best to use a lighter pellet in .22. , you are implying it will be the same anyway , which is not the case . Heavier pellet in .177 and the trajectory will more or less be the same as a .22 when using a heavy pellet 10.5 g or 16g
I am wondering if the top of the arc was around 25m which means both 20m and 30m would be similar.. Actually I found this video because I was trying to discover the trajectory between sayy 5m through to 35m.. But anyway, intereting stuff.. PS - Trying to shoot rats at 7m right now and I was curious what the trajectory would be doing beyond that (scope zero at 7m..!)
If I was living over in the UK I would stay with the .177 caliber. You don’t get the benefits of shooting a .22 at SUB 12 FPE in my opinion. Close range, okay, but beyond that is to much drop to deal with. My Air Arms S510XS .22 Caliber is shooting at 32 FPE and performs great. My TX 200 MK III in .177 caliber puts out more FPE than the .22 caliber version. If I decide to buy an FX Impact M3 it will be a .22 caliber slug gun set up and shooting in the high 60 to 70’s FPE. I already have an FX MK II .30 Caliber putting out 84 FPE and it shoots awesome out to 300 yards. If I did live in the UK I would definitely apply for the firearms license. Nice video, and I definitely knows the time and effort that goes into making videos. My RMAC video that I am editing is over an hour long.
I’ve had rifles that cost near £2,000 and I’ve had a HW100 KT (which I payed £800) and the HW is the only one that I’d rather die than sell and is also the only rifle I take hunting as I’ve not yet found a better grouping as yet, Currently in the process of buying a “HW110” maybe a “KT or Bullpup” been asked to sell I can’t remember how many times and each is the same answer, NOT A CHANCE!!!
Excellent. Very interesting. I use .22 but find this most interesting. As long as you know your rifle and hold under and over it’s not a problem. Not sure what to do for my next air rifle as I was going to get a .25 Weihrauch Snipe from Sandwell Field Sports! Great review. 👍🇬🇧🏆
Not quite. Zeroed at 30 m and with the scope mounted close to the barrel, there should be no difference in aimpoint/impact between 20 and 30 m. Closer than that you will need to aim off. Best thing to do is get in the garden/on the range, zero at 30m and then put targets out at 5,10,15,20 and 25m and see what your set up does.
As the distance increases the pellets drop which is what I was expecting but I was wasn't expecting the pellets to drop as much as they did. Good job testing, this was a good learning experience. My backyard range is limited to 20 meters. Who in the UK checks the foot pounds of energy that your guns are limited to? Do you have airgun police?
I'm glad you found this helpful Mark. If you are found to be doing something you shouldn't be with your air rifle the UK police will indeed test it. There's a obligation as an owner to make sure your rifle is legal and do something about it if it is over 12 ft lbs - like take it to an RFD. And there's a responsibility on the part of manufacturers and RFDs of course to make sure they supply legal limit rifles.
Using my aim points about 20yds out to almost 30yds is just about crosshairs. There's virtually no difference. The benefits of 177 are out to 45/50 yards you are only holding over by about 2 mildots depending on the height of your mounts.
Brilliant thanks! It seems you have to master the scope and ranges then it wouldn't matter what size you shoot, if that's correct? Keep your videos coming their great 👍
Hi Neil. Thanks for the encouraging comments. Yes, indeed. There are a couple of apps you can use that will tell you how much hold over/under to dial in. But for me, seeing is believing and I prefer to set targets out at 5 metre increments from say 15 to 50 metres and then work out for myself what the hold overs are. That said, I limit myself to 30 metres with a .22 and 40 metres with a .177 when hunting because I know I am consistently accurate at those distances in all the positions I hunt from (10 shots within a 10p coin). And that ultimately is the deciding factor when it comes to your maximum hunting distance - 10 shots in a 10p coin standing, sitting, prone, rested, freehand...
Morning Just watched your interesting video .177 vs .22 pellet trajectory & drop over various distances. How many mil dots hold over would you be looking at for .177 over the longer 40 & 50m 🤔 you only mentioned measurements. I’m new to air gun world
Hi Craig. My .177 HW100 is zeroed at 30m. At 40m I need one mildot of hold over. The scope is a Hawke Airmax. To be honest, I can't recall the holdover for 50m as I limit myself to 40m when hunting. The best thing to do, as soon as you can, is zero your scope at your desired zero range, say 30m, and then put a couple of targets out at 40m. Aim at the bullseye on one target and shoot a group of 5-10 pellets so see how far it drops from the bullseye. Then, by looking through the scope you'll be able to see how many mildots you'll need to adjust. Then, with the appropriate holdover, shoot another group at the second target to check. Then repeat the process at 50m. There are a couple of apps which will calculate holdover and mildots for you once you have entered information about your set up, and they are very good. Personally I prefer to spend the time on the range. We're here to help and if you have any other questions you can use our 'Ask Me' service by emailing enquiries@alphamilitaria.com.
Thanks for the video, as a .22 shooter I found it very interesting . One point though: - don't guess it ("inch.." "good inch..."), get your tape measure out! ;)
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I hope the folks who watch your videos realize how challenging and time-consuming it is to set up film and edit a test like this.
As a shooter in the US, I don’t often think about the challenges of sub 12 shooting. For non-sub 12 shooters, this video very clearly explains where the idea that .177 is flatter shooting than .22 comes from.
I enjoy when you post new content, thank you for taking the time to put these videos together.
Thanks Paul. That's very kind of you to take the time to say so. They do indeed take a long time film - always much longer than I allow for - and even more time to edit. Thanks for watching. Rich.
@@airgunextra Paul
I second your comment and Richard and your team I thank you for your time and effort
Great show 🎩off to you
👍 👍 👍 😜 🏴 🦄 🎣 😁 🤞 ✌️
@@chopperhehehe Thanks very much. All of us at Alpha Militaria appreciate the kind comments.
I agree. Well said. Although the .177 is flatter shooting for target work and less hold over at range, those of us here in the UK tend to lean towards .22 for pest control. (Probably not out to longer ranges). We get ourselves a Firearms license if we need to do a lot or as a profession and use good old powder burners in that case. Most sub 12ftlb weapons are used for sports and fun here and as of yet arent restricted too much, shotguns for feathered pest and sports are quite common here but rim and centre fire require quite a process to get through but is more common than some think. The age old question still remains of which is better though...
@@airgunextra Hi, what's the maximum range you hunt at when using a UK legal limit rifle? Enjoyed the video, thank you.
As a new starter this is golden thank you 🙏🏽. I really fancy a .22 but realistically the .177 just makes more sense 🤔
Thank for watching Danny. Please let us know if we can help with any questions...It's a bit of a minefield!
Another well done film. Thank you for your continued education. I really like my hw80 in .177. I was surprised to be able to stop a pest at almost 80 yards. Great round.
Thanks very much Dustin.
My R10 .22 is set zero at 35 yds, it is spot on at 35 and 50 yards. I find this to be ideal in the field and only need to make small adjustments for targets that are closer or a little further.
I think that the 12ft/lbs restriction means too little power for the heavy 0.22 pellets at longer distances.
Great point! Most of U.S. have the advantage of about double the 12 ftlbs used in this excellent tutorial. Always important to know your drops, especially for ensuring humane kills if hunting.
Agreed. In the US it might be more helpful with a fixed FPS instead of fixed FPE. Then again, even here realizing those trajectory differences would be difficult for the average airgunner outside of ballistics calculators.
In Canada we are limited to 5 FPE without a license.
Good video thanks Richard i have always favored the .177 after owning a hw77 in the eighties all my friends had 22 but couldn't hit anything past 40 meters some didn't even get that far lol ! How ever i was hitting holes through coke cans out to 60 meters with a duplex scope to
Thanks very much Robert. We all wanted .22 when we were kids simply because they were bigger. Little did we know!
Top post,have known the 177.for years but never explained it like you have thanks (y)
You're welcome Bernie. Thanks for watching and thanks for taking the time to comment.
@@airgunextra Also have known this for years,over the length 100 miters,the thin bullet runs strait,the bigger the bullets gets like a curve,bigger and bigger,i had my Stroke understand it all just say it what i mean thanks (y)
The video/visual support in your calibre trajectory comparison... is EVERYTHING!
Verbal comparison alone doesn't properly do this topic justice!
Those HW100s are beautiful guns. Robust, fabulously built and incredibly accurate with good setup and practice.
A great video, Rich. 👏👏
I’m still favouring.177 for it’s flatter trajectory.
Thanks very much...And a happy new year...
To a small pest, a 177cal bullet even at 600 fps is leathal. What would a 20 mm bullet at 600 fps do to an adult human???? Same.
Great video, always wanted to see a practical demonstration of this. 177 for me from now on.
It depends what you're shooting. The .22 has a higher trajectory but it will still deliver more energy to your target/quarry than a .177 at any give range, especially as you stretch it out a bit.
Thanks for all of your hard work doing this test. As a point of interest, here is a suggestion. Instead of arranging your distance targets horizontally, if you draw them, say left to right, then after the test you can connect the groups and get an image of the trajectory of the pellet.
Agreed, that really is a great way to test pellets, great suggestion! However, nothing beats experience in the field, LOL...all the best, cheers...
Excellent video, well done. Had 5 different 22 cal rifles over the years but just bought my first 177 and glad I have after watching this.
Thanks very much Gaz. Enjoy your new rifle...
Which one do you prefer after a year?
@@snookiewozoi prefer cal .177
@@Fozen5111 Thanks. Me too.
Awesome that you found what you were looking for. But I'm wondering if that is UK sub 12 or FAC 30 fbt you compare it to? Because there are many countries where there are no limits on power restrictions. And if there are no restrictions would you still prefer .177? It's no attack just genuinely intereste. Either way hope you still like airgun shooting like the rest of us.
very good. would like to see the experiment with two of the same rifles eg a hw97k in 177 and 22 or tx200 in 177 and 22.
Very well described and very easy to understand. Great video and thank you for spending the time to do it.
Thanks very much Eric.
Thanks for taking the time to do this comparison, guess I'm going for a .177 fot the next pest controller !
Thanks very much for watching and taking the time to comment.
So glad I chose a .177 for my hunting for the reasons shown in this very useful video (thank you). Most of my hunting is done between 15yds to 30yds. With the zero at 21yds I can aim dead on between 15yds and 25yds and only a half and inch hold over at 30yds one inch at 35yds and two inches at 40yds. No hold under required. A flatter trajectory for me is much easier to work with.
We're glad you found it useful. Happy hunting!
There has to be hold under at some point, if you are 5yds from a gopher...you need to aim low, not dead on. Same for shooting up or down hill, hold a tad low depending on distance. I do agree, a powerful .177 is deadly because it is so flat shooting! All the best, cheers...
I always used.22 up until my mid fifties .I saw a chap on you, tube Mr N Allen which made me think outside the box l have now been shooting.117 since on the odd occasion.22 i do hunting and go out as far as 50m, Pellets of choice is.177AA 8.44-4.52 using sub 12f good placed pellet will always get the result the sweet spot is far better in.177 in my opinion.
I agree with you. I've been shooting 40 years: In the past I always preferred .22 but now I've totally changed my opinion. The accuracy of a good 177 calibre PCP is unrivalled.
Did u know jsb makes AA? My gun loves jsb 7.87 gr. Exact express. Scary accurate.
I have a hw 97 in .20 and find this to be a very good compromise, still a reasonable flat trajectory but also good hitting power.
Thanks for watching Alan. Yes, .20 cal does seem like a good compromise, assuming you can get a pellet your rifle likes, and plenty of them. Fortunately the HW97, like most HWs, doesn't seem to be pellet fussy.
@@airgunextra would a .22 alloy pellet like the fttg 5.89gr have a relatively flat trajectory?
Thank you very much. I have .25, .457. Just picked up a .177. Old dog, new trick.
Muchas gracias por hacer este tipo de videos llevando a la práctica lo que algunos que recién empezamos, debemos tener en cuenta.
Usted es bienvenido. Gracias por mirar.
Love your videos that was very useful. Very informational, and I've been doing field and target for about a year and 1/2 now and I love it. I have all my targets. Set up 10,12 1/2, 15,18, 20, And five yard increments after that out to 55. And it works great. Thank you for your videos.
Thanks very much Gary. Glad you fin them useful!
Excellent and very interesting presentation for both cal. , thank you for your time to give us supporting knowledge!
Thanks Jim. Glad you found it helpful.
Verry clear and good video 👍👌.
Log time ago I had a .22 rifle
And noticed the big bullet drop.
Now I own 2 .177 rifles.
And I noticed way les bullet/pellet drop.
Flatter shooting and higher velocity.
Very nice video 👍👌
Thanks very much.
Fantastic video! I couldn’t decide whether I should order my new Benjamin NP XL in .177 or .22 caliber. You have helped me make up my mind most splendidly. I just ordered the .177. I’m not going to be doing much hunting, if any. I’m laughing at our language differences. You use meters and then just when I thought you were going to use centimeters from the aim point, you come out with inches. Hilarious! And very fun. Kudos, also, for referring to cardboard as card. Why on earth we would throw in the word board, I have no idea. It’s not a board. It’s just a card. I will celebrate this widely. I don’t know if many folks realize it, but the very reason we broke off from British rule is because the BRITs limited foot pounds to 12. Apparently, the King thought it was more fitting because that’s how many apostles Jesus had. And we were all like, “screw that! This means war!“ And because of that reason, I am enjoying 17 inches of rain in the first six days of December in the state of Oregon. Jolly good, old fellow. Pip-pip, cheerio, and all that rot!
Thanks for watching. And enjoy the weather - sounds very British to me.
Thanks Richard, i am about to buy another rifle and was leaning toward .22 (my Walther LGU is .177) I have always thought .177 was the way to go but i was tempted just to have something different. The most interesting thing for me was the tightness of the .177 groups at distance I will certainly go for .177 now
Thank you for a very informative and useful video
You're very welcome Pete. Thanks for watching.
Nice demonstration there Richard, really brings home the difference between calibres.
Thanks David. It's something we all knew, but interesting to see the extent of the difference. Thanks for watching.
@@airgunextra My pleasure Richard, you do some great vids.
I keep referring back to this video. A really useful resource, thank you - great channel 👍
Thanks very much Dan. We're glad you find it useful.
Proved what I've always thought in sub 12 ft/lb .... for target shooting, pest control at differing distances and general shooting .177 is king. You get 1500 shots in .177 for the price of 1000 in .22 as well! For hide shooting at one known and zeroed distance, eg a squirrel feeder .22 might find favour. At 20lb/ft plus powers .22 is best. Thank you for this programme.
Thanks for taking the time to comment...
Imagine using jsb heavy with the .22. They wouldn't even reach the target.
Yes they would... just wouldn't quite penetrate the cardboard!
Great test, we all knew what happened but this really brings it home. Subbed
Thanks very much Ian.
Brilliant! Thank you very much. I needed this video.
Perfectly explained and demonstrated. Just the information I personally need. Thanks so much. 👍
Your very welcome. Please let us know if there's anything else we can help with.
@@airgunextrathank you, I will. Cheers!
You can also reach us at hello@alphamilitaria.com @@kelalamusic9258
Very interesting and useful information. Thanks for that Richard.
Thanks for watching...
Hello Richard. That was a super video concerning pellet size and distance, and extremely rellevant to todays .airgun shooters. Yes, very very good, and thankyou
Thanks very much Ian. Hopefully you'll come across a few more on our channel. Thanks for watching.
One of the most useful videos I watched tis year about air rifle n pellets.
Thanks very much Dastan. We're glad you found it helpful.
The test demonstrates the importance of using a good range finder. I zero at 23 yards as this allows me to take quick opportunistic shots out to 25 yards. Beyond that I have time to take an accurate measurement using a range finder.
I use chairgun to get the optimal zero based on speed of the pellet and height of the scope.
Looking at the grouping of the 0.22 I suspect that the barrel does not like 5.52.
Thanks Ratty. You're right. As I said in the video, none of the groups were great, but I wasn't setting out to do an accuracy test but to demonstrate the extent of drop off. Running backwards and forwards with that target board didn't help either! I tend to use the R-10 at around 20 metres almost exclusively for rats and squirrels and the 5.52 AA are awesome. Thanks for watching! Rich.
50 meters isn't that far. One of the big lessons here is that the UK needs to loosen up restrictions on air gun power! 😄
Good comparison, would have liked if the difference was also explained in how both equate to mil dots at say 10x mag. 👍
14:55 how does the 22 "carry more impact"?
Because the pellets are twice the weight of an .177. The most import thing is accuracy. The extra impact of a .22 will not compensate for a misplaced shot...Thanks for watching.
@@airgunextra I feel like for 12 foot pound if you are taking headshots only up to maximum 40 yards 177 is the only sensible choice. Perhaps a squirrels head will need more energy retained at range for a clean kill…
@@thevalleyofdisappointment Personally I restrict myself to 30 metres with a .22 at 12 ft/lbs, and 40 metres with a .177. It has less to do with retained energy for me and more about my accuracy and the flatter trajectory of .177.
I like your excuse for the camera & i really trust u
Like it, loved this video. Our boys are the best here in the u.k at safety and accuracy. 12ft pounds here explained brilliantly and i learnt alot
from it. Thanks.
Great video here, learned a lot
Tbh I don’t shoot anything with my UK legal air rifle, over thirty yards, field craft and accuracy are a lethal combination.
Spot on show very different points when shooting, now do it on a windy day ,😮😮 thanks for the information 😊😊
Be the same, then slower .22 will get moved more by the wind. It's all to do with how long the bullet is in flight, longer flight time, more movement, whether it's gravity or wind working on it.
I have an FX dreamline running jsb 13.43gr 177 slugs at 933fps, 26 ft lbs. Great video, Kevin in the western USA
Thanks very much Kevin. Sweet rifle...
Looking at buying a decent rifle, because my old man can get me into his shooting club, I was going to get .22 this changed my mind, and in further discussions on the topic I will be showing or sourcing this video. Best video on the topic I’ve found,and I’ve been looking a while.
It would've been helpful to say what the mil dot holdover would've been as you looked through your scope, you only briefly mentioned that at 20mtrs on the .22
Good stuff Man 😊
This was excellent. Great video.
Thanks very much.
Wow - thankyou - i just ordered a .177 and was starting to doubt my choice - now after watching this i think i made the right choice - you need to be able to hit the target first before you can kill it
I'm glad we could reassure you Andrew! You're absolutely right that job number 1 is to be accurate regardless of calibre. I tend to use .22 for rats, feral pigeons and squirrels simply because most of the time I am shooting than at 10 - 20m. But for rabbits out to 40m I much prefer .177. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for sharing valuable knowledge and experience.
You're welcome. Thank you for watching.
Brilliant video, as a beginner this is extremely educational. Thank you for taking the time to do this. ATB MMMD
You're very welcome. Thanks for watching.
Not a hunter but have always favoured 177 over 22 for it's faster flatter trajectory, it's nice to have it proven, good video, thanks.
Thanks very much.
Shot at the same speed, the 22 would typically have a flatter trajectory considering the pellets are generally a higher bc
@@SethMcClaine 22 has a greater mass and would require greater speed than the 177 to achieve the same flat trajectory, it would also put the gun over the 12 ftib limit.
@@BoggWeasel exactly... whats the point of posting a video of comparing the trajectory of projectiles that aren't moving at comparable speeds? This is a scaled experiment of something moving at 1000fps vs something not moving... of course the item that is moving is going to have a higher trajectory.
@@SethMcClaine There is a common held myth that the 22 is superior than the 177 for hunting in every way and this proves that it ain't necessarily so. Shot placement is everything and with a faster, flatter trajectory at distance, less adjustment is required by the 177 to be on target than the 22 to achieve an accurate shot. A 12ftlb 177 will give you a flatter straight shot than a 12ftlb 22, the 177 may not hit as hard but if it's on target it will do the job.
Excellent video sir,congrats
Thanks very much Ilias.
I have just been watching your 12ft/lbs vs. 30ft/lbs video and thought wouldn't it be great if you did the same for .177 Vs .22. Then clicked the Show More text and low and behold my prayers were answered with the link to this video. :)
Thank you very much for taking the time to put together this comprehensive well put together video.
For many years I had always gone for sub 12ft lbs (non FAC) .22, but changed over to .177 about 18 months or so ago for the flatter trajectory over various ranges. This just confirms my decision to switch, I still have an Air Arms Galahad sub 12ft lbs in .22 , but it doesn't get much use now. Not that the current covid-19 restrictions helps matters.
Great minds think alike David! I use .177 for most of my 12 ft/lbs hunting, but .22 still has a place especially when shooting over known ranges such as a squirrel feeder or rat shooting. The Galahad is a cracking rifle. Let's hope you get to blow the dust off it soon! Thanks for watching.
Glad I subscribed now. Someone who actually posts some interesting videos. Thank you 🙏
Thanks very much Kurt. I hope we can keep it up!
@@airgunextra Honest. Unbiased reviews. It makes a change on here. Don’t ever change 👍🏻
@@kurt2742 Thanks Kurt. We'll do our best 👍🏻
I did a similar thing yesterday and found my rifle and pellets were the same POI at 20m & 30m and dropped by 1/2 a mil dot at 40m didn’t go out to 50m cos I never hunt that far and just wanted to figure out holdover on new rifle and sight
Thanks for a great review. I am new to air guns and this has taught me a lot.
You're very welcome. Check out our website alphamilitaria.com where you'll find a bunch of information - reviews, guides etc. Thanks for watching.
This exercise has given me a lot of valuable information, for these calibers at these ranges at these caliber rifles.
Thank you Richard, speaking of exercise, you surely did get a fair bit for this video, and for that I thank you too.
I'm glad its useful Reg. And yes, plenty of exercise, though much more needed!
I have a HW35 2.2 and will now be looking for the lighter grain pellets just to compensate for a flatter curve which I think should make it more accurate - thanks for the video I think I will keep a lookout for a good 177 in future though.
Thanks for watching Larry...
I’m just now getting back into air rifles after being away from them for about 17 years. I just bought a Gamo Wildcat whisper 177 and I was tempted to return it and get a 22 since I haven’t opened the box yet. I’m happy I watched this because I’m deciding to keep it now. I’ll get a 22 a little later
Good choice Joe! Thanks for watching.
@@airgunextra I just noticed my comment was 13 days ago. Since this comment, I have the Gamo 177, I bought a Crosman 1322 with upgrades, and now I’m waiting on a Crosman Vantage .22. Cal that’s in the mail lol.
Excellent and right to the point video. Thank you
Thanks very much Len.
Well done very clear and simplified video.
Thanks for watching and thanks for taking the time to comment Andy...
Thanks for the time and effort, Alpha. Very informative (it really makes you think) and really enjoyable to watch.
Thanks very much Jay...
.177 for me all day. I do like the thump of the .22 though, as long as a well placed shot is fired on both size pellets. Excellent demonstration. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks very much, and you're very welcome.
Thanks for the Demonstration and explanation many of us need to know in choosing a gun cal.
Nice demonstration...in hindsight maybe the camera that was zoomed in on the cardboard target, could of been moved back much further to allow a better view of the impact points. Other than that a great video.
Yes, you're right. It was Spielberg's day off though!
At this power level I wouldn't think a minute about a .22! Go for the .177 or your hunting becoming an artillery game!
Great video Richard, a very good visual explanation.
Thanks very much.
Richard thanks for the video very interesting opened my mind up to the 177 for well placed hunting shooting 👌
Thanks for watching Robo. I'm glad it was helpful.
Very good video, enjoyed very much!!
Thanks very much.
Excellent video.
Value able information, thanks
If you typically shoot at closer ranges and in the same locations eg removing rats from your garden or feral pigeon from the same roosting spots in a barn etc the thump and lower penetration of .22 is a good choice.
Energy transfer to the pellet from the expanding air as it travels down the barrel happens more efficiently in the larger calibre, so all other things being equal, a PCP in .22 has a higher number of shots per fill and is slightly quieter.
At sub 12ftlb the flatter trajectory of .177 being more forgiving in terms of shot placement at longer range and different distances IS a good argument for using the smaller calibre in general. The best answer I can come up with is to own both.
Yes… I’ve used my .177 to take out garden rats and squirrels to great effect with no problem, BUT I’m also getting a .22 mag loaded s410 as I think it’s better if you happen to miss the kill zone should the prey move as you’ve pulled the trigger as the extra power will have a better chance at doing its job and the reload option is a must for any finish up shots. Having your area mapped out for distance with a .22 is the way to go I think.
@@mrpickles3479 I own both calibres but tend to use .22, partly because I learned with a .22 BSA springer to begin with and I like the idea that energy is being transferred to the larger pellet more efficiently. The bigger pellets retain energy downrange a bit better and give more blunt trauma on impact. Shooting a sub 12ftlb .22 accurately at different ranges is more of a challenge compared with .177 but I still like launching the larger bits of lead.
That is the conclusion I too came to. I use a .22 crosman 1322 for anything withing 10 yards, .177 1250FPS Gamo for everything else. You can always increase the grain from 5 to 10 for a .177 if you want more thump.
@@TechieTard the 10 grain 177 does the job, fantastic knock down. J.S.B. s are my choice.
The JSB exact 7.87gr is just right for my 1377 scoped. 1322 would be good for pests close range. But so is the 1377.... One of each would be fun. A 22 needs more power, like a good break barrel.
Excellent video I learned a lot,, THANK YOU Sir,,,
You're very welcome Mike. Thanks for your coment.
Worth mentioning the .22 group at 50m was poor in comparison to the .177 in addition to the huge drop off. It really opened up. Perhaps the Weirauch grouped superiority to the BSA? I use a .177 Daystate wolverine r and every pellet goes through the same hole UP to 30 metres. Beyond that things get interesting. Excellent video.
Perfectly and simply explained,, as long as you adjust with hold under or hold over,, none of this rubbish technical stuff,hahaha I’ve got the HW97K.22 what a rifle!, great video👍👍👍
Thanks Andy. I'm with you - keep it simple! By the way, we did a review of the HW97K here: ruclips.net/video/4Dm2FsmMjic/видео.html. Please let us know if our findings agree with yours...
@@airgunextra hi ,yeh I watched ur vid yesterday using the hw97kt ,,,bang on with ur view on it,,,, when I first purchased the rifle I started using the H&N field target but wasn’t too accurate so switched the the Diablo field,,,, but now I’ve put a thousand or so through the barrel I’ve switched back to the H&N ,,and they are seriously pellet on pellet,,, what have your subscribers said preference of pellet in .22 with the HW97K??
Thanks Andy. I'm with you. Keep it simple! By the way, we did a review of the HW97K here:
@@andyday4724 Hi Andy. I used AA Diabolo Field pellets, but that's only because I tend to use them in just about everything! I think you can't go wrong with AADF, H&N or JSB. I do find 4.52 / 4.52 the best though. I tested some H&N lead free pellets for Airgun Shooter a while back. I have to admit that I wasn't expecting much, but they grouped really well. Not sure what they'd be like in the wind though.
If you used heavier 177 pellets and lighter 22 pellets so they where similar. Results would have been a lot closer I thought this was about impact. Not just accurately Mmmmm I’m not convinced a lighter 22 pellet wouldn’t sort this out but loved the vid. But still think 177 for targets And 22 for hunting. Up to 30 yards anyway. But hey what do I know.
Thanks for your valuable information
You're very welcome. Thanks for watching.
Great video very informative 👍
Thanks very much.
Thanks for this info
One point, you were using a 16gr pellet so at 40 it's going to drop by a few inches, but if you chance to 13gr Falcon that is going to produce a much flatter trajectory and RWS hobby 11gr are more or less flat shooting out to 40 yards, and if you use a 10.5gr Bisley in the. 177 at 40 yards you are going to experience pellet drop so it's not all dome and cloom for the 22 calibre and the. 177 has its real faults 👍
Hi Neil. You are of course right that lighter .22 pellets will drop less, and heavier .177 more. But the point is that .22 fly slower with more pronounced trajectory than .177. I used 8.4 and 16 grain as they seem fairly typical for the weight of pellets most people use. Thanks for watching...
@Alpha Militaria That's why it's best to use a lighter pellet in .22. , you are implying it will be the same anyway , which is not the case . Heavier pellet in .177 and the trajectory will more or less be the same as a .22 when using a heavy pellet 10.5 g or 16g
Thanks A Very Interesting Video From Blue
Thanks very much for watching.
Your a brave man jumping into this minefield
Or daft. probably daft. Thanks for watching.
I am wondering if the top of the arc was around 25m which means both 20m and 30m would be similar.. Actually I found this video because I was trying to discover the trajectory between sayy 5m through to 35m.. But anyway, intereting stuff.. PS - Trying to shoot rats at 7m right now and I was curious what the trajectory would be doing beyond that (scope zero at 7m..!)
hi cal i didnt realise you were a fellow shooter 73s m7ton (tony) get the app chairgun (for phone and pc) its a bit like mmana :)
It would be nice to see this same test with FAC rifles also. Thanks for posting.
Thanks Len. We did a 12 ft lbs v 30 ft lbs .22 comparison which may be of interest.
If I was living over in the UK I would stay with the .177 caliber. You don’t get the benefits of shooting a .22 at SUB 12 FPE in my opinion. Close range, okay, but beyond that is to much drop to deal with. My Air Arms S510XS .22 Caliber is shooting at 32 FPE and performs great. My TX 200 MK III in .177 caliber puts out more FPE than the .22 caliber version. If I decide to buy an FX Impact M3 it will be a .22 caliber slug gun set up and shooting in the high 60 to 70’s FPE. I already have an FX MK II .30 Caliber putting out 84 FPE and it shoots awesome out to 300 yards. If I did live in the UK I would definitely apply for the firearms license. Nice video, and I definitely knows the time and effort that goes into making videos. My RMAC video that I am editing is over an hour long.
Thanks very much. I Iook forward to your video.
@@airgunextra thank you
Thankyou for the video very interesting 👍
Thanks very much for watching Jeff and a happy new year to you.
I’ve had rifles that cost near £2,000 and I’ve had a HW100 KT (which I payed £800) and the HW is the only one that I’d rather die than sell and is also the only rifle I take hunting as I’ve not yet found a better grouping as yet, Currently in the process of buying a “HW110” maybe a “KT or Bullpup” been asked to sell I can’t remember how many times and each is the same answer, NOT A CHANCE!!!
Excellent. Very interesting. I use .22 but find this most interesting. As long as you know your rifle and hold under and over it’s not a problem. Not sure what to do for my next air rifle as I was going to get a .25 Weihrauch Snipe from Sandwell Field Sports! Great review. 👍🇬🇧🏆
Get a .177 to compare with your .22!
Great test/comparison, cheers.
Thanks very much.
So 177 ,doesn’t mater if you zero at any range 0-30 with any 11 plus ft pound rifle will be flat trajectory?
Not quite. Zeroed at 30 m and with the scope mounted close to the barrel, there should be no difference in aimpoint/impact between 20 and 30 m. Closer than that you will need to aim off. Best thing to do is get in the garden/on the range, zero at 30m and then put targets out at 5,10,15,20 and 25m and see what your set up does.
As the distance increases the pellets drop which is what I was expecting but I was wasn't expecting the pellets to drop as much as they did. Good job testing, this was a good learning experience. My backyard range is limited to 20 meters. Who in the UK checks the foot pounds of energy that your guns are limited to? Do you have airgun police?
I'm glad you found this helpful Mark. If you are found to be doing something you shouldn't be with your air rifle the UK police will indeed test it. There's a obligation as an owner to make sure your rifle is legal and do something about it if it is over 12 ft lbs - like take it to an RFD. And there's a responsibility on the part of manufacturers and RFDs of course to make sure they supply legal limit rifles.
Using my aim points about 20yds out to almost 30yds is just about crosshairs. There's virtually no difference. The benefits of 177 are out to 45/50 yards you are only holding over by about 2 mildots depending on the height of your mounts.
Brilliant thanks! It seems you have to master the scope and ranges then it wouldn't matter what size you shoot, if that's correct? Keep your videos coming their great 👍
Hi Neil. Thanks for the encouraging comments. Yes, indeed. There are a couple of apps you can use that will tell you how much hold over/under to dial in. But for me, seeing is believing and I prefer to set targets out at 5 metre increments from say 15 to 50 metres and then work out for myself what the hold overs are. That said, I limit myself to 30 metres with a .22 and 40 metres with a .177 when hunting because I know I am consistently accurate at those distances in all the positions I hunt from (10 shots within a 10p coin). And that ultimately is the deciding factor when it comes to your maximum hunting distance - 10 shots in a 10p coin standing, sitting, prone, rested, freehand...
Very useful 177 is my next choice accuracy is key thanks for a good video
Thanks very much Billy.
Morning
Just watched your interesting video .177 vs .22 pellet trajectory & drop over various distances. How many mil dots hold over would you be looking at for .177 over the longer 40 & 50m 🤔 you only mentioned measurements. I’m new to air gun world
Hi Craig. My .177 HW100 is zeroed at 30m. At 40m I need one mildot of hold over. The scope is a Hawke Airmax. To be honest, I can't recall the holdover for 50m as I limit myself to 40m when hunting. The best thing to do, as soon as you can, is zero your scope at your desired zero range, say 30m, and then put a couple of targets out at 40m. Aim at the bullseye on one target and shoot a group of 5-10 pellets so see how far it drops from the bullseye. Then, by looking through the scope you'll be able to see how many mildots you'll need to adjust. Then, with the appropriate holdover, shoot another group at the second target to check. Then repeat the process at 50m. There are a couple of apps which will calculate holdover and mildots for you once you have entered information about your set up, and they are very good. Personally I prefer to spend the time on the range. We're here to help and if you have any other questions you can use our 'Ask Me' service by emailing enquiries@alphamilitaria.com.
@@airgunextra cheers
.22 requires a shooter of greater experience I'd say. Great video!
Thanks for the video, as a .22 shooter I found it very interesting . One point though: - don't guess it ("inch.." "good inch..."), get your tape measure out! ;)